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HALIFAX, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 22, 2023

Sixty-fourth General Assembly

First Session

1:00 P.M.

SPEAKER

Hon. Keith Bain

DEPUTY SPEAKERS

Angela Simmonds, Lisa Lachance, Kent Smith, Danielle Barkhouse, Nolan Young

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. We'll begin with the daily routine.

PRESENTING AND READING PETITIONS

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.

GARY BURRILL « » : Mr. Speaker, in a moment we are going to have some guests in the gallery who have come to witness the tabling of a petition, and they are not seated yet. Would it be acceptable to revert to Presenting and Reading Petitions after the guests have been seated?

THE SPEAKER « » : Yes, we can certainly do that.

The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic on an introduction.

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE « » : Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce Jamie Marriott, who is a long-time constituent of Spryfield and whose family has been part of the Sambro-Spryfield area, I think, since the beginning of time. Jamie is a NSCAD student and a fantastic artist.

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I ask that he stand, and give him a good round of applause to welcome him here to the Legislature. (Applause)

PRESENTING AND READING PETITIONS

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.

GARY BURRILL « » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would it be acceptable to say a word of introduction first?

THE SPEAKER « » : Please do.

GARY BURRILL « » : I'd like to introduce to the House this afternoon Don Carney and Jim Houston, who are here from the executives of the Halifax Citadel-Sable Island and Halifax Chebucto NDP constituency associations. They have been important parts of the team that has taken up the petition I am about to present, and they have come to witness it being tabled.

Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition to the House, which reads as follows:

Whereas the cost of living in Nova Scotia is escalating at a pace which has not been seen in 40 years; and

Whereas the majority of Canadians live in jurisdictions with rent control;

Therefore we the undersigned call on the Government of Nova Scotia to implement permanent, legislated rent control in Nova Scotia.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to affix my signature to this petition also.

THE SPEAKER « » : The petition is tabled.

The honourable member for Annapolis.

CARMAN KERR « » : Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table a petition with over 5,500 signatures from Annapolis and beyond. The operative clause of the petition reads as follows:

"We the undersigned request that this government develop a comprehensive, targeted plan to return the emergency department at Soldiers Memorial Hospital in Middleton to 24 hours a day, 7 days a week service. We also request that they provide quarterly public information sessions in the community to update residents on the progress toward the objective and provide the opportunity for residents to ask questions and provide input."

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I confirm that I have affixed my signature to the petition. Thank you.

THE SPEAKER « » : The petition is tabled.

PRESENTING REPORTS OF COMMITTEES

TABLING REPORTS, REGULATIONS AND OTHER PAPERS

THE SPEAKER « » : As Speaker of the House of Assembly and pursuant to Section 163 of the Elections Act, I am pleased to table Elections Nova Scotia Financial Information & Statistics Volume 3, 41^st Provincial General Election, August 17, 2021.

Pursuant to Section 18(4) of the Auditor General Act, I'm tabling the following reports of the Auditor General to the Nova Scotia House of Assembly: (1) the 2022 Financial Report, (2) Effectiveness of the Green Fund Over First Two Years (2023), and (3) Metropolitan Regional Housing Authority - Examination of Service Contract Awards.

The reports are tabled.

STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS

GOVERNMENT NOTICES OF MOTION

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Minister of Labour, Skills and Immigration.

HON. JILL BALSER « » : Mr. Speaker, before I read my notice of motion to recognize Ramadan, I beg leave to make an introduction.

THE SPEAKER « » : Please do.

JILL BALSER « » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Visiting us today in your gallery, the Speaker's Gallery, is Imam Abdullah Yousri and leadership of the Ummah Masjid Mosque and Centre. We are also welcoming Alwaez Dr. Karim Gulamali from the Institute of Ismaili Studies, and finally, Sayed Ali Khalkhali and leadership from the Al Rasoul Islamic Society.

I ask them to rise and accept a warm welcome from this House. (Standing ovation)

THE SPEAKER « » : We are, indeed, pleased to welcome all visitors to the gallery. We hope you enjoy your stay here at Province House.

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The honourable Minister of Labour, Skills and Immigration.

RESOLUTION NO. 585

HON. JILL BALSER « » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ramadan Kareem.

I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas for Muslims around the world, this week marks the beginning of Ramadan, which ends with the celebration of Eid al-Fitr in April; and

Whereas the observance of Ramadan is one of the Five Pillars of Islamic faith; and

Whereas over one billion people from around the world observe the holy month of Ramadan by fasting - a practice intended to encourage Muslims to reflect on their daily habits and spirituality through piety and self-discipline;

Therefore be it resolved that members of this House of Assembly join me in recognizing Ramadan and the importance of this time of year for many Nova Scotians, and in wishing all those who celebrate it a Happy Ramadan and Eid al-Fitr ahead.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice and passage without debate.

THE SPEAKER « » : There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.

The motion is carried.

Before we move on with the routine, I neglected to inform the members of tonight's late debate. It was submitted by the member for Dartmouth North.

Whereas there are over 200 paramedic vacancies in the system and the number of paramedics who have left their profession has risen steadily over the last several years, including 133 last year alone and dozens who are off work due to injury; and

Whereas the starting wage for paramedics in Nova Scotia is substantially lower than other provinces and the working conditions of paramedics in this province continues to deteriorate with emergency room crowding and closures, physical and psychological injuries, paramedic shortages, and deteriorating access to health care across the system; and

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Whereas paramedics save lives every day and are as integral a part of the health systems as nurses and doctors;

Therefore be it resolved that this government must immediately provide support that will have the effect of retaining paramedics in our emergency health system.

Again, that will be at the Moment of Interruption. (Applause)

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill No. 262 - An Act to Amend Chapter 22 of the Acts of 2021, the Interim Residential Rental Increase Cap Act. (Hon. Colton LeBlanc)

Bill No. 263 - An Act to Amend Chapter 380 of the Revised Statutes, 1989, the Public Utilities Act. (Hon. Tory Rushton)

Bill No. 264 - An Act to Amend Chapter 25 of the Acts of 2004, the Electricity Act. (Hon. Tory Rushton)

Bill No. 265 - An Act to Establish a Commission of Inquiry into Emergency Room Deaths. (Claudia Chender)

Bill No. 266 - An Act to Establish a Public Travel Nurse Incentive Program. (Susan Leblanc)

Bill No. 267 - An Act Respecting Ambulance and Emergency Room Wait Times. (Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin)

Bill No. 268 - An Act to Extend the Primary Care Physician Incentive Program. (Hon. Zach Churchill)

Bill No. 269 - An Act to Amend Chapter 18 of the Acts of 2016, the Construction Projects Labour Relations Act, Respecting Green Hydrogen Production Facilities. (Hon. Jill Balser)

Bill No. 270 - An Act to Amend Chapter 8 of the Acts of 2019, the Nursing Act, Respecting Scope of Practice in Long-term Care. (Hon. Brendan Maguire)

Bill No. 271 - An Act to Provide Graduate Scholarships for Research that Benefits Women's Health. (Rafah DiCostanzo)

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[1:15 p.m.]

THE SPEAKER « » : Ordered that these bills be read a second time on a future day.

NOTICES OF MOTION

STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Premier.

RAMADAN: MUSLIM CELEBRATION - RECOG.

HON. TIM HOUSTON (The Premier) « » : I rise today to recognize the Nova Scotians who are celebrating Ramadan, a time of prayer and spiritual reflection. Nova Scotia Muslims celebrating Ramadan will be joining the 1.8 billion Muslims around the world in observance of this holy month.

Over the next month, Muslim Nova Scotians will pray, fast, give charity, and come together as a community to reflect their values of generosity, empathy, and discipline. Ramadan is also an opportunity for Nova Scotians to acknowledge the important contributions of our province's Muslim community.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this Legislature to join me in wishing a blessed Ramadan to Nova Scotia's Muslim community. Ramadan Mubarak.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Clare.

THIBAULT, DORIAN: CAN. GAMES MEDAL WIN - CONGRATS.

RONNIE LEBLANC « » : During this year's Canada Games, kumite karate was introduced as a new sport, and Dorian Thibault, a Grade 12 student and a 10-year member of the Bushino Ki Karate Club, qualified for Team Nova Scotia in the 68-kilogram kumite karate class.

While Dorian has participated in the sport's national competition, this multi-sport event in P.E.I. was his first. To give his best performance, Dorian trained with his fellow team members once a week in HRM. Dorian's hard work paid off and he had a successful Canada Games, reaching the semi-finals in his class and earning a bronze medal.

I ask that all members join me in congratulating Dorian Thibault on his impressive achievement, and wish him continued success in future competitions.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth South.

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C.P. ALLEN HS STABBING: NEED FOR SUPPORT - RECOG.

CLAUDIA CHENDER « » : Mr. Speaker, I arise to acknowledge the terrible event that took place at Charles P. Allen High School. In the aftermath of the violence, teachers, students, staff, and families at this school and in schools across the province are asking important questions about the conditions which led to this tragedy.

For years teachers, staff, and families have been clear: There is not enough support in our schools. Teachers and admin are stretched beyond belief. Students are falling through the cracks.

On behalf of our caucus, I want to send our love and strength to everyone affected, and to join our voice with those calling for a safer workplace, better student supports, and for nothing like this to happen ever again.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Pictou West.

IRANIAN WOMEN: FIGHTING FOR HUMAN RIGHTS - RECOG.

HON. KARLA MACFARLANE « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise today in support of the brave Iranian women who are fighting for human rights, freedom, and equality. Mahsa Amini, a young woman who was murdered by the Iranian regime for not wearing her hijab the way they wanted it to be worn, brought to the world's attention over 40 years of oppression that women and girls of Iran have been facing.

Strong Iranian women have led the largest protest seen in four decades, and continue to be relentless in standing up for human rights at a risk to their own lives. These brave women and girls are seen across the nation taking off their hijabs, and saying no to oppression. They are choosing what they wear. They are making their own choices, and they are claiming what is rightfully theirs.

Nova Scotians stand with these brave women and girls in their fight for equality and freedom as they show the world that they are ready for change.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Yarmouth.

RAMADAN: MUSLIM CELEBRATION - RECOG.

HON. ZACH CHURCHILL « » : I rise to acknowledge that this evening marks the beginning of Ramadan, the holiest month of the Islamic calendar. This time is sacred to Muslims. Those of the Islamic faith are called to fast for an entire month from sunrise to sundown. The month aims to teach those practicing the importance of self-discipline and empathy for the less fortunate.

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I was fortunate to have attended an interfaith event at the Ummah Mosque in February. I was able to see people from all faiths come together and celebrate their diversity. Events like this build welcoming communities and allow Nova Scotians of all backgrounds to flourish together.

I want to recognize this day because it represents a significant time for Nova Scotians of the Muslim faith. The values represented by Ramadan of gratitude and self-discipline are great guides for all of us. I encourage each of us to remember to lead with empathy this month.

I also want to recognize the member from Halifax Armdale, who is the first Muslim elected in this Chamber in the history of our province. (Applause) He has brought incredible empathy and wisdom to our caucus in this House. To all those practicing Ramadan, I want to say Ramadan Kareem.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

INT'L FRANC. DAY: CELEB. OF FRANC. CULTURE - RECOG.

LISA LACHANCE « » : Monsieur le président, cette session législative a commencé un jour après la Journée internationale de la Francophonie et pendant le Mois de la Francophonie. Cette année, la célébration se place sous le thème « 321 millions de Francophones, des milliards de contenus culturels ». Cette année, la Journée internationale de la Francophonie célèbre la création culturelle francophone, sa diversité, mais aussi la nécessité de valoriser son accès en ligne, sa découvrabilité.

Monsieur le président, je demande de mes collègues la reconnaissance de cette journée et de toute notre diversité francophone en Nouvelle-Écosse pendant ce Mois de la Francophonie.

Mr. Speaker, this legislative sitting started one day after the International Francophonie Day and during Francophonie Month. This year's theme is: 321 million Francophones, billions of subcultures. This year, International Francophonie Day celebrates the creation of Francophone culture and its diversity, and also its online discoverability.

I ask my colleagues to recognize this day and all the diversity in Nova Scotia's Francophone community throughout this month.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Richmond.

LANDRY, EVA: DEATH OF - TRIBUTE

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TREVOR BOUDREAU « » : Mr. Speaker, today I would like to recognize the very well-lived life of Eva Landry of Samsonville, Richmond County.

Eva was born in 1936 in Cap La Ronde to Fred and Caroline Mauger. Eva graduated from St. Peter's High School, then received her teaching degree from Nova Scotia Teachers College and a Bachelor of Education degree from Saint Mary's University.

Eva's career as an educator spanned over 42 years. She held various positions as teacher, principal, reading specialist, Nova Scotia's first female superintendent of schools, and later an educational consultant.

Eva received many awards over her lifetime: the Order of Canada, the Order of Nova Scotia, Queen Elizabeth II Jubilee Medal, and the 4-H National Volunteer Leader of the Year award, to name a few.

Eva spent countless hours volunteering, contributing to St. Peter's Catholic Church, Hearing and Speech Nova Scotia, the Wallace MacAskill Museum, Enterprise Cape Breton, Village on the Canal, and many other organizations.

She was interested in politics from an early age and was a great supporter of the Nova Scotia PC Party.

Eva was married to her husband Doug for 64 years. They enjoyed many wonderful years kayaking, snowmobiling, and sailing their boat, the MoonShine, on the Bras d'Or Lakes.

Please join me in acknowledging the life of a great community leader, educator, and a friend to many.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cumberland North.

VOLUNTEERS: WINTER EMERG. TEMP. SHELTER OPENING - RECOG.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize a committee of volunteers in Cumberland North, and particularly from within the Town of Amherst, whose efforts resulted in the opening of a much-needed Winter emergency temporary shelter. With a growing number of homeless or precariously housed individuals in the community, and a more permanent shelter still in the planning stages, there was a definite need to provide a warm, safe place for overnight stays.

The committee met weekly beginning September 7^th, and was successful in finding a location, secured funding through the Department of Community Services - we're very grateful to the staff there - and opened a shelter in late December. Not only is the shelter staffed and open seven days a week, several organizations and local churches also opened warming centres and are offering community meals throughout the daytime hours. Please join me in recognizing all these volunteers, whose true community spirit is in helping others.

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THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Bedford South.

VOLUNS. AND PARTICS.: SPELLING BEE CH'SHIP - CONGRATS.

BRAEDON CLARK « » : Mr. Speaker, this past Sunday, I had the chance to attend the Nova Scotia Spelling Bee Championship held in my riding at the Nova Scotia Islamic Community Centre. This is the fourth year that the bee has taken place here in Nova Scotia, but the first time it has been held in person. It was both exciting and dramatic for the kids, parents, and siblings in the audience. I would like to recognize and congratulate Nimra Fatima and the countless other volunteers who made the spelling bee such a success. It was inspiring to see the kids spell so many words that I would have no hope of spelling, and to see the pride and effort they put into the competition.

Finally, I would like to congratulate the top three finishers in the 9 to 11 age group, to whom I was happy to present medals: Aarush, Tanusri, and Zaara. As the winner, Zaara will be travelling to Toronto to compete in the national spelling bee on June 12^th. I would ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating the volunteers and the kids, and wishing Zaara the best of luck in Toronto.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.

NDP MEMBERS: RENT CONTROL PETITION - RECOG.

GARY BURRILL « » : Mr. Speaker, I would like to register a word of appreciation for the members of the NDP who have gone door to door in recent months with our petition for permanent rent control. In the constituency of Halifax Chebucto, we have visited walk-ups, high-rises, single-family dwellings, and two-, three-, and four-unit dwellings in every corner of the constituency from north of Bayers Road to south of Quinpool Road. The support has been tremendous.

In a lifetime of petitioning, I have only once ever - and it was with this petition - had the experience of going an entire afternoon with every single person who answered their door being enthusiastic to sign the petition and no one showing any reluctance. To paraphrase the whereas clauses of the petition that we have tabled, we need permanent, comprehensive, and effective rent control because the cost of living is escalating at a pace not seen in 40 years, and because a majority of Canadians live in jurisdictions where permanent rent control applies.

[1:30 p.m.]

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THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Kings West.

CFB GREENWOOD: HOSTING 2023 NS WINTER SPEC. OLYMPICS - THANKS

CHRIS PALMER « » : In February, CFB Greenwood and its facilities played host to the 2023 Nova Scotia Winter Special Olympics.

Four hundred and fifty-five athletes, coaches, and organizers, plus volunteers competed and socialized from February 10^th to 12^th. Events included floor hockey, curling, figure skating, and speed skating. I was proud to welcome participants from Nova Scotia and P.E.I. to our area on behalf of the province at the opening ceremonies. It was truly an inspiring event, and it was great to connect with many of the local volunteers and athletes from all over. The smiles of all in attendance said it all.

Participants celebrated the weekend with a dance and meal at the mess hall provided by the base. I'd like to extend a big thanks to Colonel Jeff Davis and those at 14 Wing Greenwood for being gracious hosts to hundreds of athletes, coaches, and volunteers. And to those who are involved in the Special Olympics movement, I want to extend a heartfelt thanks.

Mr. Speaker, please join me in congratulating all the athletes on their successes. And if you have the opportunity to attend any Special Olympics events in the future, I encourage us all as members to do so.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Annapolis.

SIGNERS: PETITION TO RETURN ER TO 24/7 SERVICE - THANKS

CARMAN KERR « » : Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the almost 6,000 residents of Annapolis and beyond who signed our petition in person these last few months. This petition asks the Houston government to develop a comprehensive targeted plan to return the emergency department at Soldiers Memorial Hospital in Middleton to 24 hours a day, seven days a week service, as it was the day it became government. These almost 6,000 residents are also asking government for quarterly public information sessions.

I'd like to thank the following businesses and organizations and their staff for hosting the petition: Evan and Karen in my office; Bainton's Tannery in Annapolis Royal; Double D Baker in Granville Centre; the Annapolis Royal, the Bridgetown, the Lawrencetown, and the Middleton libraries; Spurr Brothers Farms in Wilmot; Big Scoop Restaurant in Middleton; the Middleton Independent; the Foodland in Middleton; Cinnamon Creek gift shop in Middleton; the Middleton Pharmasave; the Middleton Home Hardware; the Middleton Irving; the Needs in Middleton-Nictaux; Fraser's building supplies in Kingston; the Kingston Pharmasave; and so many other businesses that I don't have time to name today.

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THE SPEAKER « » : I'd like to remind all members not to use proper names in their member statements please.

The honourable member for Halifax Needham.

HRCE SUPPORT WORKERS: PROTEST - RECOG.

SUZY HANSEN « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize our support staff within our school systems, specifically HRCE. At a time when our system is overwhelmed and our staff are overworked, support workers showed up en masse to support each other and stand up for better wages and more staff.

These staff feel like they are underappreciated and unheard by the government. They are underpaid, undervalued, understaffed. If they had more staff, it would equal more support. They said they are working for peanuts in a peanut-free zone and that the status quo is unacceptable.

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to show my appreciation to all the support staff in our school system, because without our support workers our schools would not work.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Colchester North.

TAYLOR, BOB: DEATH OF - TRIBUTE

TOM TAGGART « » : Mr. Speaker, I stand today to commemorate my good friend former Colchester County mayor Bob Taylor, who passed away on February 10, 2023.

Bob lived a life of commitment to his family and his community. I first got to know Bob when I was elected to municipal council back in 2008. He was our mayor and leader for my first eight years of municipal government. He was also a friend and a mentor. Bob always put his council first. When things were going bad, which in political life they occasionally do, he was out front leading with his chin. When they were going well, council was always the first to be recognized.

In all his years of leadership I believe Bob was most proud of his agreement between the town and the municipality to build and operate the Rath Eastlink Community Centre. Today the Rath is seen as a huge success and has been instrumental in growing our Colchester County communities.

Bob will be remembered in many ways - as a family man, a business owner, and a hockey coach to name a few. I believe the good work he accomplished over the many years he spent as an elected official, culminating in his successful tenure as Colchester County mayor, will what he is best remembered for.

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THE SPEAKER « » : I'm going to ask once again, that members - we used proper names the last time. Please keep your member statements within the 45 seconds. One minute. I'm sorry, it's the other stuff that's 45.

The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.

RISSER, ANGELINA: RINGETTE ACHIEVEMENTS – RECOG.

HON. IAIN RANKIN « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize Angelina Risser of Timberlea. Angelina is a member of the Nova Scotia ringette team that went to the Canada Games in 2023.

Angelina has been playing ringette for 10 years and her favourite sport moment was the day she learned that she made the team. Being a part of this team has been her biggest dream since she became involved in the sport. Her long-term goal is to remain active playing ringette and start coaching. Athleticism runs in the family, as Angelina's dad, Karl Risser, attended the Canada Games back in 1991 playing table tennis. The members may remember Karl was on the front page. he was dressed up as a lobster waving the Nova Scotia flag, cheering on his daughter.

Youth sports play a significant role in our communities and its benefits offered our youth are attributes I strongly support and encourage. I'd like the members of the House to join me in congratulating Angelina for believing in herself and her abilities and achieving a spot on the ringette team. I'm proud to see young athletes follow their dreams and achieve success in competing with the best athletes across the country.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

STUDENTS: HISTORY CHALLENGE ENTRY – RECOG.

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise to congratulate the Grade 2 students at John MacNeil Elementary School who submitted to the Delmore Buddy Daye Learning Institute's Awards for Excellence in African Nova Scotian history. The students spent February learning about inspiring and influential people of African descent and turned those learnings into a beautiful art piece.

Each student in Megan Douglas's Grade 2 class created a puzzle piece decorated with African-inspired patterns and painted the puzzle pieces in the colours of the African-Nova Scotian flag. Then they pasted the pictures of change-makers, alongside words that best described them, to big puzzle pieces. The puzzle pieces came together to make a beautiful mural. The process was captured in a stop-motion video where the students say or sign the names and affirming words.

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I am so happy to live in a community where these young leaders and artists are growing up. I ask the House to join me in congratulating them on their inspiring entry into the African Nova Scotian History Challenge.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Glace Bay-Dominion.

TURNULL, EVAN & AARON: TV SHOW PARTIC. – RECOG.

JOHN WHITE « » : Mr. Speaker, Evan and Aaron Turnbull are names you all will soon come to know. The Glace Bay singers are the only Nova Scotian contestants on the second season of Canada's Got Talent, which aired last night. We all thought it was Evan only competing until Aaron joined from the audience, and the duo impressed.

Evan and Aaron are amazing performers who have previously been featured on two fundraisers for Feed Nova Scotia, where they were introduced by the great fellow Glace Bay native Matt Minglewood. This July 2^nd the brothers will be opening for Dominion's Rock the Hill event, the Irish Descendants. All of Nova Scotia will be throwing our support behind the Turnbulls as they compete against the other contestants.

The two-hour season finale is May 16^th in Fallsview Casino in Niagara Falls. The brothers are competing for a grand prize that includes $150,000 and the opportunity to perform in America's Got Talent Presents Superstars Live in Las Vegas. Good luck, Aaron and Evan. Nova Scotians are cheering you on and I hope all members of the House of Assembly are also cheering.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member of Sydney-Membertou.

DINGWALL, NANCY: DEATH OF - TRIBUTE

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise in my place to recognize a member of our community whom we lost in the last number of months, and that is Nancy Dingwall. As one of her former students, Nancy was an inspiration to thousands of students who attended CBU. I was one of those students in my time in student government. Nancy was not only a champion at CBU, but she took on so many great causes in the community. In particular, during our time in government, she was so passionate and because of her hard work with the committee, there is a new hospice that is located now in Sydney.

As I said, she inspired thousands of students. I was one of them. I also grew up with her kids. To Jay, Leigh Anne, Jen, and Dave, and the entire family, I want to pass along from the Mombourquette family, and from everybody in the House, my thanks and gratitude for Nancy. She was such a beautiful woman, she had a beautiful heart, and she did so much for our community.

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I rise in my place to recognize as the media said, a true visionary for so many great causes, and for pouring her love and her support into many in the CBRM.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier.

ORGANIZERS: COAL BOWL BASKETBALL TOURN. – CONGRATS.

KENDRA COOMBES « » : I rise to recognize the National Basketball Tournament held annually at Breton Education Centre. This week-long event is not just about basketball. The participating students from the schools across Canada join in school- sponsored educational, social, and cultural activities. Mr. Speaker, in this tournament, you come as a stranger, you leave as a friend.

The Coal Bowl Board of Directors works hard at planning and organizing this fantastic week. The volunteers are bar none. It's truly a fun and communal experience for all. This year I'm proud to say the BEC boys brought home the gold for the third time since the tournament's inception. The Riverview Ravens brought home silver, and the Hants North Rural High School took home bronze. Congratulations to all participants, volunteers, organizers, and fans for a successful week.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Eastern Passage.

WARNELL, JEANNIE: COM. SERV. - THANKS

HON. BARBARA ADAMS « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize long-time Eastern Passage resident Jeannie Warnell for always having a kind heart and a helping hand in our community. Jeannie enjoys the local scenery and fresh air on her walks and often visits local stores and coffee shops. She meets many people along the way, including those who found themselves in hard times. Jeannie always finds a way to help out.

She recently took it upon herself to help out at our new local Horizon Recreation Centre seniors' social group with art projects. Recently, she also began teaching the fundamentals of iPad use, which were donated through funds raised by our community's Music 4 Mental Health fundraising committee.

I ask all members of the Nova Scotia Legislature to join me in thanking Jeannie Warnell for her kindness and dedication to our wonderful community. We know she will continue to be a true inspiration to local community members of Eastern Passage and beyond.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Bedford Basin.

DISABLED PARKING SPACES: INAPPROPRIATE USE - RECOG.

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HON. KELLY REGAN « » : I just want to share with the House that I took a call from a constituent this week and she was very upset. She was going to an appointment with a friend at a local hospital and she went to pull into a disabled parking space and every single parking space at that local hospital - which I am not going to name and shame because they should know better, but anyway - had an orange cone in it. My friend actually had to get out, take that cone away, and park there.

She went in with her friend to the appointment, came back out again, and the cones were still there. She asked a hospital employee, what is going on here? They said, oh, we're having a visit from a minister - I'm not going to say which one because I don't believe the minister would actually park in that space. I will say this, Mr. Speaker: Can we all agree in this House that we don't park in disabled parking spaces?

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth South.

HOWLETT, DR. TODD: HIPPOCRATIC OATH RENDERING - RECOG.

CLAUDIA CHENDER « » : I have a happier story about a hospital. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize Dr. Todd Howlett and the Dartmouth General Hospital. Nova Scotia health care workers have been pushed to their limits in the last three years and yet every day they come to work and do their jobs with the highest professional and ethical standards that they are able. Their dedication to care for the community reflects the intention behind the Hippocratic oath taken by most doctors.

Dr. Howlett, with the generous support of local businesses, recently organized the installation of a large rendering of that oath outside the Dartmouth General Hospital to serve as a reminder to physicians, health care workers, and patients that this dedication to the care of patients is at the core of the work they do.

May we in this House support all health care workers as they strive to care for Nova Scotians and maintain this oath.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Digby-Annapolis.

WHALLEY, NANCY: NEW DIGBY AREA COM. NAVIGATOR - CONGRATS.

HON. JILL BALSER « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise today to welcome and congratulate Nancy Whalley in her new position as the Digby Area Community Navigator. Nancy started working as the Digby Area Community Navigator back in November. This position is extremely important to our area to enhance the recruitment and retention of health care professionals.

Nancy has over 16 years of experience in the health care sector and has a lifelong connection to Digby County. The Digby and Area Health Services Charitable Foundation partners with the town and the Municipality of Digby to make this position possible. Over the past few months, Nancy has been working with provincial recruiters to help facilitate the acquisition of doctors and other health care professionals in the Digby area, as well as facilitate a smooth transition for health care professionals to the community, and much more.

[Page 4939]

I'd like to thank Nancy Whalley for deciding to take on this significant role for our community. I think I can speak for the entire Digby area when I say we have the support and we are so grateful for the important work to come. Thank you, Nancy.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.

EPAs: NEED FOR SUPPORT - RECOG.

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE « » : EPAs are the backbone of our education system. They work in some of the most difficult circumstances and still manage to stay positive and smile. Quite frankly, Mr. Speaker, they are undervalued, underpaid, and understaffed. They deserve more staff, more relief, and better pay.

This government has shown the willingness to pay for what they feel is a priority. EPAs deserve to be treated as a priority, deserve respect, and deserve better pay. It's time to step up and show this hard-working group - of predominantly women - the respect and love they deserve. Pay them now.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

STUDENTS: QUILT CREATION - RECOG.

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : Mr. Speaker, this past February the Grade 5s at John MacNeil Elementary School in Dartmouth found a truly special way to mark this year's African Heritage Month. Throughout February, the students - taught by Matt Montgomery and Colleen Clarke - learned about the history of quilt-making in African Canadian culture. Quilters, they learned, used quilts to tell stories, but also to send messages through the Underground Railroad. Inspired by David Woods and Shauntay Grant, the students created a stunning needle felt quilt which they then submitted to the Delmore "Buddy" Daye Learning Institute's African Heritage Month Challenge. The quilt consists of squares, each crafted by individual students, and the border represents the secret codes used for the Underground Railroad.

I ask that the House join me in congratulating the over 50 Grade 5 students at John MacNeil Elementary who wove and sewed this beautiful piece of art into existence.

[1:45 p.m.]

[Page 4940]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth East.

COLSON, BRITTNEY - DART. COOKIE CO.: COM. SERV. - CONGRATS.

HON. TIMOTHY HALMAN « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize Brittney Colson, the owner and baker of the Dartmouth Cookie Company.

After a difficult period in her life, Brittney found comfort and peace in baking. She expanded this into a business during the COVID-19 pandemic. Brittney has come up with creative flavours for her cookies, with choices such as her peanut butter and jam cookie or her Nova Scotian-inspired Moon Mist cookie.

In addition to her regular sales, Brittney also sells a Karma Cookie. The Karma Cookie rotates through different flavours, with a portion of proceeds from each Karma Cookie being donated to a mental health initiative. So far, Brittney has supported local mental health initiatives such as Avalon Centre, Self-Help Connection, and Bryony House.

I would like to congratulate Brittney Colson and the Dartmouth Cookie Company for its success and community involvement.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Kings South.

MROZ, JOHN: DEATH OF - TRIBUTE

HON. KEITH IRVING « » : Mr. Speaker, John Mroz, a dear friend and mentor, recently passed away. He introduced me to provincial politics in Kings County and was an inspiration.

John grew up in Whitney Pier and worked in the Sydney Steel plant while attending junior college. He earned a B.A. from St. Francis Xavier University and a Bachelor of Law degree from Dalhousie University in 1965. John was appointed to Kings Council in 1982 and was deeply committed to volunteer work.

He dedicated his time and energy to many organizations including Kin Canada, the Canadian Mental Health Association, The Flower Cart, and Kings Point to Point Transit Society. As an active member of the Saint Thomas Aquinas community, he served as president of the parish council.

John was my official agent for two elections, a dedicated Liberal. I valued his advice and commentary on the needs of Kings County communities and the province. He always had a wonderful turn of phrase that brought a smile to those around him. His passing is a great loss, and my thoughts are with his family.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cumberland North.

[Page 4941]

CASEY, B./BACON, D./ATKINSON, J.: CHIG. ISTH. ADVOCACY - THANKS

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : Mr. Speaker, today I rise to once again remind my colleagues of the importance of the isthmus of Chignecto and its critical importance to our province and to all of Canada. The Chignecto Isthmus contains critical utility, telecommunications, and transportation infrastructure that links Nova Scotia to the Maritimes and to the rest of our country.

Today I would like to recognize and thank Cumberland County residents Bill Casey, Doug Bacon, and John Atkinson who, among many others, have been trying to raise the alarm bells on this issue for years. They know that it is an absolute necessity to repair and upgrade the protective dykes that guard our vital connection called the Chignecto Isthmus.

Through presentations, media interviews, and quite frankly by speaking to anyone who will listen, they are continuing to raise the importance of this issue and request government to take immediate action to rectify this situation that is just one significant storm away from catastrophic damage.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

LEADERS: CENTERING BLACK CDNS. HEALTH COURSE - RECOG.

LISA LACHANCE « » : Mr. Speaker, yesterday March 21^st, was the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. Achieving this goal takes hard work, determination, and innovation from all of us fighting for social justice.

At Dalhousie University, a new course entitled Centering Black Canadian Health is a much-needed addition to the Faculty of Health curriculum. I would like to recognize Dr. Barb Hamilton-Hinch, assistant vice-provost of Equity and Inclusion, Dr. Marie Earl, assistant professor in the Dalhousie School of Physiotherapy, and Michelle Patrick, associate director in the Office of Community Partnerships and Global Health, for leading this work.

This course offers insight into how Canadian education, justice, and social systems have impacted and continue to impact Black Canadians' physical, emotional, and mental health. "It's one thing just to focus on the negativity and the challenges that people of African descent experience in Canada," says Dr. Hamilton-Hinch, "but it's also important to celebrate the resilience, the strength, the beauty of the Black community."

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members to join me in recognizing the course co-creators for the creation of this important action. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.

[Page 4942]

HFX. REG. ARTS SYMPHONY: EXPERIENCES FOR STUDENTS - THANKS

LARRY HARRISON « » : Mr. Speaker, the Halifax Regional Arts Symphony is the only high school orchestra in Nova Scotia. It includes instrumental music students from Grades 9 through 12 in the Halifax Regional Centre for Education. The students involved with the HRA Symphony play challenging repertoires in a demanding and fun environment.

On March 1^st, the HRA ensemble, which includes Musquodoboit Rural High School student Ben Tucker, collaborated with The Run Rabbitts Pink Floyd Tribute Band and the HRA Jazz Voices to perform a symphonic rendition of Pink Floyd's concept album Dark Side of the Moon.

I would like to thank Ben Tucker and all members for adding their talents to this ensemble and to congratulate the Halifax Regional Arts Symphony for offering unique and engaging experiences to our talented students.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Clayton Park West.

DIVINE, ANN: QUEEN'S PLAT. JUB. MEDAL RECIP. - CONGRATS.

RAFAH DICOSTANZO « » : I rise today to recognize Ann Divine, whom I had the pleasure of awarding the Queen Elizabeth II's Platinum Jubilee Medal from the Clayton Park West constituency this January.

Ann was born in Guyana and then lived in England before moving to Canada in 2004, and is comparable to a superhero when it comes to human rights and empowering women and African Nova Scotians. She served on the Nova Scotia Human Rights Commission from 2007 to 2014.

Ann is the founder and CEO of Ashanti Leadership & PDS, a Halifax company that empowers Black and immigrant women to fulfill their economic and business goals. A quote from Ann Divine: "We are all different and no matter who you are, you have something of value to offer and the right to be included."

Thank you, Ann. I'm proud to have such an amazing woman in our constituency.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Needham.

BRIAND, RAYMOND: DEATH OF - TRIBUTE

SUZY HANSEN « » : I rise today to remember a member of our community, a friend and a neighbour, a kind and gentle soul always to me, and a wise and always sharp 88-year-old man, Mr. Raymond Briand.

[Page 4943]

Sadly, on February 12^th of this year, Mr. Briand left us all with tears and happy memories of him. Born on January 9^th in Cape Breton, he was one of a kind. He said that after God made him, they broke the mould, which is a true story, and there was no one like him. He gave me political advice even before I gave this job any thought.

Mr. Briand worked hard for many years, and he was still doing odds and ends even into his 80s. He gave the best advice, and he was an amazing judge of character. He was sharp with his wit and loved to make folks laugh. He loved cooking, fixing things, telling jokes, and watching hockey with his family and friends.

Mr. Briand was the longest resident of his community of Mulgrave Park. He said that he moved in before it was even finished. He was so happy to have a place that when he moved in, he kissed the floors. Later in life he could be seen driving around in his scooter, chatting with everyone. He loved the neighbourhood kids and was also known to many as Puppy. I know that he is with the love of his life, Cookie, whom he adored, and I know they are both now enjoying each other in paradise.

Mr. Briand would not have wanted me to draw attention to him, as this was his humble way, but I'd like to thank the Briand family for sharing their dad with my family, and his spirit will live on in MGP forever. Rest in power.

THE SPEAKER « » : Please remember, one minute. The honourable member for Sackville-Uniacke.

RAYMAKERS-BORDEN, MARTHA: COM. SERV. - RECOG.

HON. BRAD JOHNS « » : I rise to acknowledge the tremendous amount of work that Mount Uniacke community member Martha Raymakers-Borden puts into making Christmas a truly magical time for our area.

Many of us know and love Martha for her acts of generosity, including making masks for the community and donating the proceeds to Beacon House, organizing yard sales in support of others, and most recently giving blankets, clothing, and food to individuals staying outside the Cobequid Community Health Centre.

This past December, Martha displayed inspiring compassion for others once more by making and distributing over 120 gift bags to the seniors of Mount Uniacke and beyond.

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to commend and recognize Martha Raymakers-Borden for all her hospitality to the residents of Mount Uniacke and hope her kindness is returned to her tenfold.

[Page 4944]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Northside-Westmount.

HOUSING AUTHORITY EMPLOYEES: DEDICATION - THANKS

FRED TILLEY « » : Today I rise to thank and congratulate the hard workers of the Nova Scotia Provincial Housing Agency, particularly the Cape Breton Island Housing Authority former branch. Just the work that these individuals have done over the last number of years has been, since I've been in office, amazing.

A particular example that I would like to give is a few weeks ago, during the coldest day of the year, it was a Saturday. I received two calls on two different properties where there was a difficulty with housing. It was a Saturday evening around 7:00 p.m. Immediately the group sprang into action, rectified the situation, and made the area safe for the resident.

On behalf of myself and the constituents of Northside-Westmount, I'd really like to thank them for their dedication and work in our community.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier.

SNOW, RILEY: CAN. WINTER GAMES PARTIC. - RECOG.

KENDRA COOMBES « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise to recognize Riley Snow, who represented Nova Scotia at the Canada Winter Games in Prince Edward Island in the sport of boxing. At 16, representing your province at the Canada Winter Games is profound. It is a challenging feat to make the provincial team.

I want to congratulate Riley and let him know that the Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier community is proud, especially Reserve Mines and the New Waterford Boxing Club.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Argyle.

D'ENTREMONT, ALDRIC: 220 BLOOD DONATIONS - RECOG.

HON. COLTON LEBLANC « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize 81-year-old Aldric d'Entremont, a West Pubnico resident, who has now donated blood nearly 220 times.

Aldric admits that the first time donating blood wasn't for the most noble of reasons. He was around 18 years old, a student at the vocational school in Yarmouth, and the principal announced that whoever went to give blood could have an hour off from school. Since then, donating has become a significantly important part of Aldric's life.

[Page 4945]

It's such a simple process, and one donation, no matter what blood type, is vital and can save three lives.

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all members of the Legislature encourage everyone to consider Aldric's dedication and give the most precious gift: the gift of life.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Yarmouth.

MAPLE GROVE EDUC. CTR.: BOYS COOKING PGM. - THANKS

HON. ZACH CHURCHILL « » : Mr. Speaker, I'd like to take a moment to recognize an amazing program that's happening in Yarmouth. For three months, on Tuesdays after school at Maple Grove Education Centre in Yarmouth County, there are weekly cooking sessions for boys in our community. This program is thanks to a partnership with Yarmouth Recreation and the Rotary Club of Yarmouth.

The weekly sessions teach boys cooking skills while allowing them to socialize and gain confidence around food and in the kitchen. Most weeks they welcome a celebrity chef from our community, including restaurant owners, high school teachers, and even our own Mayor Pam Mood.

I'd like to thank Yarmouth Recreation's community recreation coordinator, Matthew Smith, and the Rotary Club of Yarmouth's Kerry Muise and Steven Cipollone for their dedication to seeing this meaningful program become such a success week after week.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

STUDENTS: QUILT CREATION - CONGRATS.

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : Mr. Speaker, this past February, the Grade 5s at John MacNeil Elementary School in Dartmouth North found a truly special way to mark this year's African Heritage Month.

Throughout February, the students, taught by Matt Montgomery and Colleen Clarke, learned about the history of quilt-making in African Canadian culture. Quilters, they learned, used quilts to tell stories, but also to send messages through the Underground

Railroad.

Inspired by David Woods and Shauntay Grant, the students created a stunning needle felt quilt, which they then submitted to the Delmore "Buddy" Daye Learning Institute's African Heritage Month Challenge. The quilt consists of squares, each crafted by individual students, and the border represents the secret codes used for the Underground Railroad.

[Page 4946]

I ask that the house join me in congratulating the over 50 Grade 5 students at John MacNeil Elementary who wove and sewed this beautiful piece of art into existence.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Kings North.

CHAPMAN, ROSS: IWK FUNDRAISING EFFORTS - RECOG.

HON. JOHN LOHR « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize Ross Chapman of Port Williams for his fundraising efforts for the IWK Foundation. Mr. Chapman recently received a commemorative coin from the IWK Foundation for surpassing $10,000 in raised funds through a charity called Extra Life.

Extra Life is a fundraising program of the Children's Miracle Network Hospitals. Participants create profiles and livestream as they play video games, and viewers make donations to their specific profiles. The funds go to children's hospitals chosen by the participants to support critical life-saving treatments and services, innovative research, and pediatric medical equipment. Extra Life has raised more than $100 million to date.

Please join me today in recognizing Ross Chapman for his fundraising efforts for the IWK Foundation.

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. The time for Statements by Members has expired. We'll now go into Oral Questions Put by Members to Ministers. The time is 2:00 p.m. We will continue until 2:50 p.m.

[2:00 p.m.]

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ORAL QUESTIONS PUT BY MEMBERS TO MINISTERS

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition.

PREM.: RETENTION BONUS EXCLUSION - EXPLAIN

HON. ZACH CHURCHILL « » : Mr. Speaker, we know that one of the major challenges in our health care system is the increasing vacancies that we have in our system. We have heard that upwards of 80 per cent vacancies are existing right now in some of our hospitals. We are losing nurses and other health care workers at an alarming rate. The government has responded with a retention bonus. I know I speak on behalf of our entire caucus when I say that we hope that is successful in retaining our staff.

[Page 4947]

We are hearing from some nurses who feel really discouraged that they didn't qualify for this program, particularly those who have been out on sick leave. We have heard from nurses who are even out on cancer treatment and out for injury who do not qualify for this retention bonus.

May I please ask the Premier « » : What is the rationale for these folks not being included in this retention bonus?

HON. TIM HOUSTON (The Premier) « » : Obviously, I'm very proud of the work that the minister and the health leadership team are doing to bring forward a retention bonus. It's a very significant investment in the health care professionals of this province, and one that we absolutely think was necessary, for sure. We're proud of that investment.

Sometimes you don't get these things perfect. We're looking at clarifications around some of the inclusions on that, and we'll continue to look at that. We want health care workers to know that they're respected, that they're valued. Things are getting better, despite what you might hear to the contrary. Things are getting better. We need them here to help us fix health care in this province, so we'll do everything we can to do that.

ZACH CHURCHILL « » : In terms of vacancies in our system, it certainly hasn't been getting better. We have seen the vacancy numbers shoot up in this province - up to 1,600 in our hospitals. We are hearing from nurses who were out on sick leave - for cancer, for injuries, and for other illnesses. We have also heard from nurses who have been out on maternity leave. They have all been told that they do not qualify for this incentive program. This is obviously very discouraging for people who are out for reasons - no fault of their own - who have dedicated their lives and careers to service in a very challenging environment.

I will ask the Premier « » : Will he ensure that all of these nurses and staff will qualify for this retention bonus? We also want to keep them in the system as well, and make them feel as valued as their peers.

THE PREMIER « » : Certainly, an investment like that in health care workers - we don't want anyone to be discouraged by it. We do the best we can with the information we have. We'll look at clarifications and classifications, encourage everyone to reach out to their employer on those issues. I will say very clearly, in the case of those people who are on maternity leave, they are eligible for the bonus, for sure.

ZACH CHURCHILL « » : That's very encouraging. We certainly hope that is communicated directly to their staff. We would also urge the government to include those who have been out on sick leave, particularly for injuries - some that are related to work - and of course for the more serious illnesses like cancer. This needs to be looked at as well.

We have also heard from RNs in leadership positions who work our floors, and also staffed our COVID-19 centres during a very risky time, before the vaccines were available. We're hearing from these hard-working nurses as well that they have also been informed that they're not eligible for this retention bonus. We do not want to lose these nurses as well. I also do want to recognize that we have heard from paramedics who feel they haven't been treated as fairly in this situation as other employees.

[Page 4948]

Will the Premier please remedy these discrepancies in the retention bonus program?

THE PREMIER « » : Of course, let's not be lost on the fact of the other side of that: 55,000 Nova Scotians. The largest single investment in health care professionals in this province certainly is one that would not have been foreseeable under previous governments. We value our health care professionals. We want them to stay. We want them to help us fix our health care system.

This is a retention bonus directed at patient-facing health care professionals. We will work through clarifications and classifications. The reality is that this is meant to say thank you to our health care professionals who have been there. It's a pretty big amount of money behind it. We'll continue to make it better too.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.

PREM.: KEEP FAM. PRAC. CLINICS OPEN - COMMIT

CLAUDIA CHENDER « » : Mr. Speaker, since this government took office, the number of Nova Scotians on the Need a Family Practice Registry has almost doubled, rising by 66,000 people. The number of people on the wait-list in the Central Zone has more than tripled to over 61,000 people. When we ask about why these numbers are so high, the Premier accuses us of being negative. Meanwhile, the government is about to allow another six doctors to close their practice, adding 8,000 people to the list.

If money is no object in health care, then why won't the Premier do what it takes to keep these practices open, and these 8,000 people attached to a family health team?

THE PREMIER « » : Look, the reality is that the Leader of the NDP is extremely negative. (Interruption) It's not an accusation, Mr. Speaker. It's a sheer fact.

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. The Premier has the floor.

The honourable Premier.

THE PREMIER « » : I've heard the Leader of the NDP refer to the NSHA as awful. I've heard her refer to projects as rotten. It's extremely negative.

What I would say to those Nova Scotians who are on the Need a Family Practice list - and there are a number of them. We're concerned about it. Being on that list does not mean there's no access to care.

[Page 4949]

The world is changing. We're innovating ways to make sure that they have access to care. Everyone on that list has access to virtual care. Fifty-seven thousand Nova Scotians have signed up for that. There are other ways to access care as well. We know there's work to be done.

CLAUDIA CHENDER « » : At the risk of being negative, I will go on.

Last week, the Vice President of Medicine at Nova Scotia Health, Nicole Boutilier, sent a letter to doctors that said, and I quote, "Recent media has been dominated with family doctors announcing retirements and lack of support to stay in practice from Nova Scotia Health and health system partners. This is not the message our teams have been working very hard to send and we want to change this narrative immediately to reflect that commitment."

I think the Premier is trying to do the same in this Chamber. We have a great suggestion for how to change the narrative: support doctors in the way they are asking, so that their practices can remain open.

Will the Premier commit to helping these clinics open and to not leaving 8,000 patients unattached to family care?

THE PREMIER « » : The simple reality is that the health leadership team under the guidance of the minister is working very hard to support physicians. I know that the email that went out - which is a periodic email that goes every week - the Opposition clinged on a certain phrase in there. But I will tell you this: At the health care summit this week, there was a number of physicians around the table and they thanked Dr. Boutilier for sending that message, saying we are here to support you.

We are here to support those doctors, and we will continue to be here to support them.

CLAUDIA CHENDER « » : Third time's the charm. Let's get a Question Period and an Answer Period.

Dr. Rowicka from the Spryfield Family Medicine Clinic, which will have to close, said, and I quote, "I'm retiring with a very heavy heart because I feel so sorry and guilty even for my patients. I've been their family doctor for over 30 years. They don't know what they're going to do and some of the patients are so complex that really, truly, I do not believe they'll be able to manage their health." I'll table that.

After pleading for help from the Nova Scotia Health Authority, the government said they would not help this clinic remain open unless two doctors added to their 4,000-patient roster. So instead, we have 4,000 people without a doctor at all.

[Page 4950]

If the Premier wants to support doctors in their retirement, surely this means letting them retire with a clear conscience. I will ask a third time: Will he commit to keeping these clinics open?

THE PREMIER « » : Mr. Speaker, what I will continue to say - you can ask as many different spins or as many negative connotations as you want on it - this government supports our health care professionals. We showed that yesterday with a very significant investment and incentive. We are showing that to doctors. We will support them. We will work with them.

The number one thing we're concerned about: access to care for patients. We will invest in those mechanisms that get access to care for patients.

THE PREMIER « » : The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition.

SLTC: CCA RECRUITMENT EFFORTS - UPDATE

HON. ZACH CHURCHILL « » : Mr. Speaker, in his last answer to my question, he did say that all patient-facing staff have received that bonus. I will say that RN leads are patient-facing in COVID centres and in our long-term care facilities. I want to ensure that they're included as well.

Other patient-facing staff, of course, are continuing care assistants. This government has been focused on recruitment. They have elevated the pay for CCAs, which I think is a good thing, but we also know it's not just about pay - it's also about working conditions as well.

I'd like the Premier to inform the House how successful the recruitment efforts have been for CCAs into the health care system.

HON. BARBARA ADAMS « » : I could stand here all day and tell you how successful the recruitment of CCAs in the Province of Nova Scotia has been going.

THE SPEAKER « » : You are not going to be allowed.

BARBARA ADAMS « » : That wouldn't be the first time I've heard that, Mr. Speaker.

What I will tell you is that under the previous government, they had no idea how many CCAs they had in the province of Nova Scotia. What I will tell you is that this province invested in 4.1 hours of care, which meant raising the CCAs staffing ratio by 50 per cent, to the highest in the country.

[Page 4951]

Right now, we have at least one-third of our nursing homes already fully staffed and operating at 4.1 hours of care.

ZACH CHURCHILL « » : In fact, I was the Minister of Health and Wellness when we brought in the CCA Registry. The member will remember that we debated that bill here in the Chamber. The Hansard record will reflect that.

Also, while this government pats itself on the back for all its successes in health care, things are getting worse. In fact, a Freedom of Information request that we sent in on CCA vacancies for the health authority has come into our office. These are the numbers from August 2021 to January 2023 - the time that this government has been in power - and CCA vacancies in the health authority have actually tripled. We've got three times the amount of CCAs who have left our health authority.

Can the Premier stop patting himself on the back and actually look at these numbers, and tell us what is going on with all these people leaving the system?

BARBARA ADAMS « » : Well, the Leader of the Opposition just patted himself on the back for being willing to count the number of CCAs they had. We are going to pat ourselves on the back for giving them a 23 per cent pay raise and free tuition. For the Leader's record, there are 8,298 CCAs in the Province of Nova Scotia, and we are going to make sure that every single long-term care facility in this province and our home care agencies have all the CCAs that this province needs.

THE SPEAKER « » : Well, this should be an interesting afternoon. I can just tell.

The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.

DHW: FAM. PRACTICE CLINICS RESOURCES - COMMIT

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE « » : Mr. Speaker, the Spryfield Medical Clinic is about to lose two family doctors after losing one last year, leaving another 4,000 people in my community without a family doctor.

I have been working with the clinic for some time, and quite frankly, they are stretched thin and exhausted. We've been working with NSHA for resources to keep the clinic afloat.

Can the minister stand here today and promise the people of my community, and the doctors in Spryfield, that they will get the resources they need - no strings attached - to stay open?

[Page 4952]

[2:15 p.m.]

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : Certainly, we have been looking at the team-based care as an option for folks on the Need a Family Practice Registry. The team-based care does involve people like allied health care professionals, family practice nurses, nurse practitioners - all of whom are Nova Scotia Health Authority employees.

It's really important that as we work with physicians to expand their practice to a collaborative care model, that there may be some strings attached with that. But we are very open to understanding what physicians need. We don't want them to leave their practice. If they are transitioning out of their practice, we are committed to working with them to find a replacement or transitioning patients to primary care for them in the interim.

BRENDAN MAGUIRE « » : The remaining couple of doctors at the clinics are stretched thin and exhausted. They have been told by the Nova Scotia Health Authority that if they want resources and relief, they need to take on another 800 to 1,000 new patients. They simply can't do that.

I see the Premier shaking his head yes, but they are physically and mentally exhausted. If you don't believe it, go to the clinic. I am afraid that we are reaching the same conclusion as the South End Clinic, where the remaining doctors throw their hands up and just leave.

Is it better to give the resources to help 4,000 people keep their family doctor, or is it better to dig in, as the NSHA is doing, and have them lose their doctor? I will ask the minister and the Premier to promise that, again, the clinic and the people of Spryfield will get the resources, no strings attached, and that includes not adding to an already stretched roster.

MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : What I can commit is that the Nova Scotia Health Authority has an optimization team, that we work with other practices throughout the province to look at what if they take industrial engineers, they go into a practice, they look at the current practices and processes in there to see if there is a way that we can actually support that practice in being more efficient.

If we add additional care providers, it should ease the load of the physicians and actually spread the load of physicians over a number of allied health care providers. We are very open to working with practices. There's an optimization team that has industrial engineers, and that's no cost to the physician. We'll be happy to talk to that practice about how we can support them.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition.

DHW: PHYSICIAN INCENTIVES - BRING BACK

[Page 4953]

HON. ZACH CHURCHILL « » : The government keeps telling this House that things are getting better in our health care system. Certainly the government is spending a lot of money on health care, but when we look at the key stats that people are paying attention to, how many people are without a family doctor, that number has doubled under this government.

When you look at ER closures, that number has doubled under this government. When you look at vacancies for nurses, for CCAs, that number is increasing. I just tabled a document that showed that CCA vacancies in the Health Authority have tripled under this government, yet this government just stands up, pats itself on the back and blames all past governments for the state of the health care system.

We've seen the number of people needing a family doctor shoot up in the Central Zone. We have a bill today asking the government to bring that incentive back. Will the government please tell us if they'll bring that physician incentive back to the Central Zone?

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : As I mentioned yesterday, there have been a variety of incentive programs over the last number of years, and what we found is that up until 2021, the majority of those physicians who received incentives actually settled in HRM. We knew that there was inequitable access in our rural communities, and in 2021 the decision was made to incent physicians to settle and care for rural Nova Scotians.

We are very happy to continue to look at how we support physicians. The incubator clinic has been very well received by our residents. We are increasing residency seats across this province. We've invested in a medical school. There's a variety of ways in which we're supporting our health care workers, and I'm more than happy to review our incentive program on an ongoing basis.

ZACH CHURCHILL « » : I do want to point this out: There has never been a patient attachment issue in the Halifax region like there is now. Those numbers have tripled under this government, and they started when they took out that incentive. That incentive existed in every region of the province because we need doctors in every region of the province.

What's changed? This is what I'm really concerned about, the political and partisanship lens that's put on health care management now in our province. Is it just a coincidence that they've taken the incentive out of HRM, where there are fewer Progressive Conservative seats, and didn't even change anything actually in rural incentives? Is that a coincidence? I don't think it is.

Also, it makes sense to have incentive in the fastest-growing part of our province, and the minister says that the physicians leaving Halifax are going to go to rural Nova Scotia. They haven't. The numbers are going up in rural Nova Scotia too. Bring the incentive back. It was working.

[Page 4954]

MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : There's no question. What is the question? What I will say is that we have to have equitable distribution of physicians across this province, and we have been working with our communities. I hear all the time from members that they don't feel that the access was appropriate in their communities. We're working very hard to make sure that we have equitable access.

There are different ways to practise. A rural practice in Nova Scotia has a special lens to it. We know that HRM physicians also have a very unique practice style, so we continue to work with Doctors Nova Scotia to understand what physicians want. We're at the negotiation table, and we're more than happy to hear from physicians directly about what best suits the way in which they wish to practise.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

DHW: PARAMEDICS - SUPPORT

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : My question is for the Minister of Health and Wellness. I want to bring the House's attention to a growing crisis among our province's paramedics. Numbers from the Department of Health and Wellness show that 133 paramedics left the profession in 2022 for reasons other than retirement. I can table that. This is more than double the number from just a few years earlier.

Paramedics have attributed most of these numbers to chronic undercompensation in the profession. Wages in other provinces are substantially higher than in Nova Scotia. Paramedics save lives every day and are as integral to the health system as nurses and doctors.

My question is: When will this government support paramedics in the ways that they need?

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : I, too, am very concerned about our paramedics. I have worked with paramedics for 31 years, and I greatly appreciate the way in which they have supported patients throughout Nova Scotia.

We have done a number of things. We have invested $3.5 million in equipment to support them because they are off, and we know that injuries have been an issue. Recently, we covered a short-term illness benefit for them in December and put more money in their pockets. We have offered a $5,000 bonus to them. We continue to look at their scope of practice. We have a variety of different practice settings for paramedics. We have introduced an $11,500 tuition rebate for paramedics to incentivize people. (Interruption) We're very focused on the paramedic workforce, and we will continue to work with them to find the practice setting that they want.

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : Mr. Speaker, in spite of all that, in spite of all of those things, the growing number of paramedic vacancies is a cause for concern. We hear that every paramedic in this province, at this point, has an exit strategy. The 2022 total of 255 vacancies is significantly higher than previous years and the impact of this is becoming clear, and I can table that.

[Page 4955]

We're seeing more than four times the number of late responses to emergency calls than just two years ago, and I can table that. Nova Scotians need to know that there will be emergency care available when they need it, and paramedics need to be supported to stay in the province and in their profession. Retention and compensation is a clear issue among our province's paramedics, and this government's failure to meaningfully address this has put Nova Scotians' health and safety at risk.

Will the minister commit to raising paramedic wages to be competitive with the rest of the country?

MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : Certainly, there are a number of things that we are working with. We do have a committee that has been struck with the Department of Health and Wellness, Nova Scotia Health, EMCI, the paramedics union, and the college to support their practice environment and make sure they have adequate work-life balance. In fact, we have signalled to the paramedics union that we would like to get back to the table to address their compensation as well as work-life balance concerns because their contract is up at the end of October.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Kings South.

FTB: HEALTH CARE FUNDING DEAL - EXPLAIN

HON. KEITH IRVING « » : Yesterday I was asked to check the numbers I presented with respect to the deal the government negotiated with the Government of Canada for new health care funding. I have done that, and I now would like to table the background information for that for the record.

I will table the Government of Canada's press release with the agreement with Newfoundland and Labrador, the Government of Canada's press release with the agreement with P.E.I., the Government of Canada's press release with the agreement with New Brunswick, and the Government of Canada's press release with the agreement with Nova Scotia. I also will table the latest population statistics for Canada and the individual provinces. I also will table my calculations from these official sources.

The information I double-checked last night refined my thinking on the data. A more accurate way to evaluate our deal is to compare it to the average of the per capita funding for the other three Atlantic provinces. When I did this math, the deal is actually worse than what I presented. It is now $260 million, or 20 per cent less.

[Page 4956]

Will the government please explain to Nova Scotians why they should not be concerned that the government negotiated a bad deal?

HON. ALLAN MACMASTER « » : Mr. Speaker, I know for a fact that in the case of the territories, there was a recognition by all provinces that they don't have the same volume of people. They have people living over a vast geographic area. I know there was consensus amongst provinces and the federal government to ensure that they got more than a per capita amount. I think that's part of being part of a country where we look out for each other.

I can't speak further to the member's math, but I do want to put that point on the table.

KEITH IRVING « » : Again, I presented the numbers with respect to our partners in Atlantic Canada, which is a fair comparison.

I will try again from yesterday's supplementary which was not answered by the minister. This cash infusion requires the province to meet specific targets, and when it comes to specific targets, this government has been consistent in its failure to set them and failure to meet them. We do not want to risk being in a position where we fall short of these targets and risk missing out on our vital health care funding. We need to have our own oversight to make sure that we're on track to meet these obligations.

Will the government release the benchmarks that are part of this new bilateral funding agreement so that Nova Scotians can know that this government is meeting their targets?

MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : I just want to assure the member that we are being open and transparent around the data in this province. We are working with our federal partners. We also, for the first time, have a website where people can see how our health care system is performing. We have agreed to be accountable; we have shown ourselves to be accountable; we will continue to do that.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Annapolis.

DHW: SOLDIERS MEMORIAL ER - PLAN

CARMAN KERR « » : Mr. Speaker, the annual accountability report on emergency rooms shows that ER closures have doubled in the last year under this government. In recent months, the ER in Middleton has been closed half the time, from 24/7 emergency on Day 1 of this government to losing all evenings, to losing all afternoons, to barely operating. At more than 23 per cent, Middleton and surrounding communities have some of the highest unattached rates of residents to primary care – and now without reliable emergency service. People in Middleton and surrounding communities need answers from this government. Close to 6,000 residents in Annapolis and Kings West have signed a petition demanding more public engagement and a strategic plan for Soldiers Memorial emergency, yet we hear nothing.

[Page 4957]

Mr. Speaker, is the government going to keep the much-needed ER in Middleton open? If so, where is this strategic plan?

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : I know that this has been an ongoing concern. Certainly, I want to assure the member that we continue our recruitment efforts to ensure that there's adequate staffing, both in nursing and physician complement down there to support the residents. We have also implemented urgent treatment centres in the surrounding areas to ensure that there's predictable access to urgent treatment - this is non-life-threatening illness and often what many of our Nova Scotians seek care in hospitals for. We also, where there are emergency closures, work with our EHS partners to ensure that there is response. We have a physician now, a doc-in-the-box, 24 hours, 7 days a week, to support paramedics to ensure that there is life-saving treatment under the direction of a physician on the way to a regional facility.

CARMAN KERR « » : With all due respect, Annapolis is the only region in the province with two emergencies shut down. It's certainly challenging for all of us. The uncertainty of Soldiers Memorial and the closing of the emergency department at Annapolis Royal last Fall has left very little to no options for emergency care in the entire County and the entire constituency of Annapolis. The Middleton catchment of Soldiers Memorial Hospital, as I said, has the largest group of unattached to a family doctor or nurse practitioner in the province. The people I represent deserve dependable access to primary and emergency care, and they aren't receiving this currently from the government.

Last year, during Estimates, the Minister of Health and Wellness told me there is no intention to have a new model where emergency would be closed in the evening. Does the minister still stand by her statement from last year, or have intentions changed?

MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : In regard to the member's question, we know that there are a number of physicians who retired all together, which was very difficult for the community. The urgent treatment centre - we actually worked with the physicians in that community to ensure that they had a predictable work environment. It was at their request that we supported an urgent treatment centre in Annapolis. We continue to work on recruitment and retention. We are very committed to ensuring that there's emergency care throughout this province.

[2:30 p.m.]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Bedford Basin.

DHW: FRONTLINE DOCTORS - LISTEN

[Page 4958]

HON. KELLY REGAN « » : Mr. Speaker, this government continues to claim they're listening and acting on recommendations from health care professionals, but health care professionals, including frontline ER doctors and nurses, are critical of this government's so-called plan for emergency care. In fact, ER doctors wrote to the government about patients who are waiting hours and hours in waiting rooms and on ambulance stretchers because there's nowhere to put the next patient who needs care. I'll table that.

My question to the Minister of Health and Wellness is: Why isn't this government listening to the doctors on the front line, and why don't we immediately work on the problems and the solutions the doctors outlined?

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : We work really hard to work with health care providers across this province. Certainly Action for Health is built on the voices of health care workers. We're regularly in contact with our emergency room physicians and nurses. When I go back to the work that has just happened around supporting emergency rooms, particularly in the waiting rooms as well as the float MD program, that was born from the voices of emergency room physicians.

I would also like to say that when we reviewed the Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians' recent open letter to all Ministers of Health, as well as the federal Minister of Health, we were very heartened to realize that we have the same priorities and we are on the same page as these very capable physicians across the country.

KELLY REGAN « » : According to the emergency physicians who wrote to the government, paramedics can't offload patients because patients who have already been admitted are in them already. This creates delays in ambulance offload time.

We know this government claims they'll add more beds and build a new ER under the More, Faster plan, but we actually don't know when that is going to be, because this government will not provide any timelines or any costing.

My question to the Minister of Health and Wellness is: When will they take seriously the concerns of our ER doctors and add more beds to our ERs?

MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : I thank the member for the question. It's certainly no secret to me that we have been underbedded in this province for a number of years, not only in acute care but also in long-term care.

The issues that happen in the emergency rooms are related to the people who need to move along. They need to move along to the community or they need to move along to long-term care. That has been ignored for a number of years.

We are currently developing a plan that will allow us to support people transitioning out of hospital - the first in the province, transition to care facilities. We are looking at increasing the beds in long-term care. We're looking at supporting home care by equipment programs and supporting workforce. There are a number of things that are happening.

[Page 4959]

Our health care teams are working diligently to find solutions in order to support people moving out of the hospital and ensure that we take the pressure off our emergency rooms.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.

SNSIS: FIXED-TERM LEASES ABUSE - STOP

GARY BURRILL « » : My question is for the minister responsible for the Residential Tenancies Act. No doubt the minister is aware of the case of Marion Cooke, a 78-year-old living in an apartment in Lower Sackville who, following a couple of ambulance calls that the building management found inconvenient, received a notice from her landlord that she would have to leave her apartment at the end of next month, at the conclusion of her fixed-term lease.

Like thousands of people in Nova Scotia, Mrs. Cooke didn't even know she had ever signed a fixed-term lease. Her daughter told the media, "She cried and cried and cried. She was just telling me how much she loves it there."

How can the government continue to allow seniors like Marion Cooke to be preyed upon by landlords abusing fixed-term leases?

HON. COLTON LEBLANC « » : As I indicated at a bill briefing this morning, there are a small minority of both tenants and landlords who do not always follow the rules of the Residential Tenancy Program.

I acknowledge that there are on occasion landlords who use fixed-term leases for unintended purposes, Mr. Speaker. I think that has been compounded by the 2 per cent rent cap that has existed since the former government.

I am hopeful that the increase that we have proposed today in legislation will provide some relief to landlords, but also by protecting tenants in our province. If that issue continues in the future, we will certainly collaborate and engage with our stakeholders and address it in the future.

GARY BURRILL « » : "On occasion," Mr. Speaker. "The odd case," Mr. Speaker. Let the record show that these were the minister's words.

The minister will also be familiar with the situation of Wanda and Allan Burns. They are the former building superintendents on Walker Avenue in Lower Sackville who, when the landlord used relatively minor water damage as an excuse to evict every single last tenant in the building, refused to pass out eviction notices. They said they thought, in their words, it would be "morally wrong," and they lost their job and their apartment as a result.

[Page 4960]

Ms. Burns said, "These are our seniors, and they are being put out of their homes. Allan and I could not sleep at night and put our head on a pillow knowing they have no home. I couldn't be part of that."

What kind of government allows a giant loophole in the law that is actually incentivizing landlords to evict seniors from their homes?

COLTON LEBLANC « » : Mr. Speaker, I think let's just breathe and take the temperature down a little bit. I certainly appreciate (Interruption) . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. The Minister of Service Nova Scotia and Internal Services has the floor.

The honourable Minister of Service Nova Scotia and Internal Services.

HON. COLTON LEBLANC « » : I certainly appreciate the member opposite bringing forward the concerns to the floor of the Legislature, Mr. Speaker. This is an across-government issue that we're tackling head-on. The housing crisis in Nova Scotia is real. We're working across departments to address the needs and improving availability of housing in Nova Scotia and thereby improving affordability of housing in Nova Scotia.

We're investing in affordable housing. Last week, it was announced by the Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing 236 affordable housing units across this province, Mr. Speaker. We will continue to engage with our tenant and landlord groups on ways to modernize and strengthen the residential tenancy program.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Hammonds Plains-Lucasville.

DHW: SURGICAL WAIT-TIMES - UPDATE

HON. BEN JESSOME « » : Mr. Speaker, the PC government was elected on many significant promises, one being the reduction of surgical wait-times to meet the national average within the first 18 months of being elected. We know that this commitment has not been met.

The national benchmark for knee replacement is 182 days. Currently here in Nova Scotia to get a consult, people are seen within 434 days. To get your knee replaced, 90 per cent of people are seen within 710 days. I will table that.

My question, directed at the Minister of Health and Wellness, is: Since they have not met this commitment on meeting national benchmarks within the first 18 months of being elected as they said they would, why should Nova Scotians feel confident that they'll meet their new benchmarks which are conveniently set out prior to the next election?

[Page 4961]

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : I know that the surgical teams have been working very hard over the last number of months looking at designated surgical beds, as an example, at Dartmouth General; adding a third endoscopy suite at Dartmouth General to support; working at private-public partnerships in order to leverage operating room time to make sure that our surgeons are able to perform surgeries that don't require admission.

Year-to-date, we have completed 1,098 same-day hip and knee arthroplasty surgeries, which is a significant improvement. In 2019-2020, there were only 72 of those surgeries completed, Mr. Speaker. I want to ensure the members opposite . . . (Interruption)

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. Order, please. The honourable minister has the floor. (Applause) I told you it was going to be a fun afternoon.

The honourable member for Hammonds Plains-Lucasville.

HON. BEN JESSOME « » : Mr. Speaker, I know that doctors and people in the system are breaking their backs to make sure that they get as many done as possible, but this is clearly a commitment that the Tories made during the election campaign that they were elected on that has not been met. That's the problem.

Another promise that the government has made was to make Nova Scotia's operating rooms 24/7, moving them beyond so-called "banker's hours," and fix that surgical backlog. Once again, this is another commitment that has not been met.

Mr. Speaker, my question for the Minister of Health and Wellness is: When will Nova Scotians see this PC government keep their promise around 24-hour operating rooms and addressing the surgical backlog?

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : Certainly one of the most significant things that we're doing to support surgical wait times is the recruitment of staff. We need to recruit not only surgeons but also registered nurses and LPNs to work in the OR environment.

We've done a number of things to support recruitment to not only bring the people into the profession, like increasing the number of nursing seats in this province by 200, by working with the College of Registered Nurses to support immigration to bring new and mid-career nurses to our province to support our ORs.

We've implemented robotics. We've implemented a hybrid surgical suite in order to support surgeries across this province. I want people to feel ensured that their foot is on the gas and that they are going to get excellent care in this province.

[Page 4962]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Bedford South.

SNSIS: VG HOSPITAL CLOSURE - DELAY

BRAEDON CLARK « » : Mr. Speaker, in December this government released its plan for health care infrastructure titled More, Faster. However, for anyone who is working in or being treated at the very old Victoria General, a better headline might be "Here Longer."

The original plan, as proposed several years ago, which this government sat on for well over a year, would have had the Victoria General closed three months ago by the end of 2022. I would like to ask the minister responsible: When will staff, patients, and families finally be moved out of the Victoria General and into a modern and usable health care facility?

HON. COLTON LEBLANC « » : I appreciate the member bringing forward this question to the floor. It gives us an opportunity to talk about, in fact, More, Faster. The Premier has been very clear to deliver more for Nova Scotians, and let's do it faster, delivering more beds and a new ER at the HI, more OR capacity.

What we've done is we've recognized some of the challenges that the former government did not overcome. It's recognizing that one big project in its entirety, waiting 10-plus years to flick on the light switch, was going to be very difficult for the construction industry to digest. We're shortening that timeline. We're developing this plan, and we're going to be implementing it in waves so Nova Scotians can have access to care much more quickly.

BRAEDON CLARK « » : I would be more convinced by the minister's answer if there were any timelines or any budgets in this document I have here, that I will table. There are none. There are no timelines in this document, which I will table. There are no budgets. For something that the minister has talked about, being the largest infrastructure project in the history of Nova Scotia, and given that fact, I think it's incumbent on the government to give Nova Scotians some details, the least of which would be a budget and a timeline for these projects.

I would like to ask the minister responsible: When will these projects happen, and how much will they cost? Very simple.

COLTON LEBLANC « » : I'd like to remind the member that we're following through with the entire same process that the former government started with the Bayers Lake Community Outpatient Centre, a P3 model - design, build, finance, and maintain - that has demonstrated transparency. We will be transparent with Nova Scotians on the cost, but we are doing whatever it takes to move this.

[Page 4963]

We will deliver more faster, and I've been very clear - perhaps the member has missed this - that we intend on having sod and dirt starting to be moved this Summer. There's an entire health care team working on this project putting in a lot of work every single day. We've heard nothing but good things from doctors, finally breathing a sigh of relief.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cumberland North.

DHW: ACCURATE AMBULANCE AND ER WAIT TIMES - UPDATE

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : We know that we have people waiting for ambulances from one end of Nova Scotia to another, people waiting long hours for ambulances that sometimes never come. We hear people driving themselves in an emergency situation to the hospital, or driving a loved one, simply because they cannot wait for an ambulance to arrive.

On New Year's Eve, the same night that Allison Holthoff was dying in our emergency department waiting, we had a family member take someone to the hospital who had waited over five hours for an ambulance to arrive, and they took them in the back of a funeral home vehicle.

I'm asking the Minister of Health and Wellness: When will Nova Scotians be given the accurate wait times for EHS, for ambulances, and emergency room wait times so they can make more informed decisions?

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Minister of Health and Wellness.

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : I want to assure the member opposite that we are working very hard with EHS around the services that we provide. We are hiring more transport operators. We continue to do that. It has significantly improved the ability of our paramedics to respond to emergencies.

I also want to let the member opposite know that we have invested in a second air ambulance, which will support routine transfers from Yarmouth and Sydney to help alleviate those long drives and put at least five ambulances per day back on the road.

I know that there are a number of initiatives that we've undertaken to support our paramedics and EHS colleagues, and we'll continue to do that.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : The minister states that the ambulance wait times have significantly improved. We'd like to see the data on that. It's not happening in Cumberland County. In fact, every day, paramedics are being told to leave Cumberland County, leave their own people, and leave no ambulance access in our county every single day.

[Page 4964]

[2:45 p.m.]

We're asking the government to table this information, table this data. We're also asking the government to be accountable and show the information around what deliverables Medavie, the private company that the government has hired to deliver emergency health services, shares with us the data on if they're actually meeting performance standards. The last report that's available is from 2012, 11 years ago.

Will the minister commit to providing taxpayers of Nova Scotia with information on the department's most recent review of EHS on the contract?

MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : We continue to work with EHS and our EMCI partners to understand how best to support paramedics and patients throughout this province.

We are monitoring. There is an Action for Health website and ambulance response times are available there. The initiatives that we've taken to support workforce in the EHS system helps support response times. We need to look at how we offload patients in emergency rooms. There are a number of initiatives that are under way.

I want to assure the member that we are concerned about the EHS response and we'll continue to work diligently in order to support both our paramedics and patients.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Northside-Westmount.

SLTC: TRAVEL NURSING MONOPOLY - STOP

FRED TILLEY « » : Mr. Speaker, we know that travel nursing is causing a huge labour issue here in our province. We are losing nurses who work in our hospitals to travel nursing contracts.

The province has spent millions and millions of dollars on nursing contracts. We found out last month at the Health Committee that in long-term care alone, the government has spent $45 million on travel nurses in the last 18 months, which I'll table.

The Nurses' Union and others have been calling on the government to fix this big issue with travel nurses. We're glad to see that a retention bonus was offered, however many travel nurses are earning much more than this $10,000 as a travel nurse.

Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Health and Wellness: How is this government going to stop travel nursing companies from having a monopoly over our health care system and keep nurses practising right here at home?

[Page 4965]

HON. BARBARA ADAMS « » : Mr. Speaker, in case the member missed it, there was a $350 million announcement on Monday. That's part of the plan.

FRED TILLEY « » : Mr. Speaker, I didn't realize that the Minister of Seniors and Long-term Care received a promotion to Minister of Health and Wellness.

I indicated in my question, Mr. Speaker (Interruption) . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. Order, please. The honourable member for Northside-Westmount has the floor.

FRED TILLEY « » : Mr. Speaker, I do not argue that the Department of Seniors and Long-term Care is extremely important in Nova Scotia. However, what I did . . . (Interruption)

Mr. Premier, would you like to answer the question for me?

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. Order, please. I'm going to ask that the speaker be respected. Also, at the same time, I'm going to ask the same speaker to go through me and not directly ask a question of an individual across the floor.

FRED TILLEY « » : Mr. Speaker, given the fact that most of my time was used up, I'm going to get right to the question.

My question to the Minister of Health and Wellness is: Are you actively involved in bringing forward travel nurses into the Nova Scotia Health Authority instead of having private companies do our work?

BARBARA ADAMS « » : Mr. Speaker, that's the most sexist and inappropriate statement I've ever heard made in this Legislature. To suggest (Interruption) . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. The Minister of Seniors and Long-term Care has the floor.

BARBARA ADAMS « » : To suggest that one minister is more valuable than another is unacceptable. Given the statement that he made, whatever else he asks me, I'm not going to dignify with an answer.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Northside-Westmount.

FRED TILLEY « » : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

THE SPEAKER « » : Not during Question Period.

[Page 4966]

FRED TILLEY « » : It'll come.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.

OAMH: PSYCHIATRIST/PSYCHOLOGIST VACANCIES - DETAILS

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE « » : Mr. Speaker, a quick question. We know that this government has promised universal health care. I'm just wondering what you're doing. Is there anything in this budget to deal with the vacancies in psychiatrists and psychologists?

HON. BRIAN COMER » : Stay tuned, Mr. Speaker.

BRENDAN MAGUIRE « » : Thank you.

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. The time allotted for Oral Questions Put by Members to Ministers has expired.

I want to once again mention about the banter back and forth and ask you to show respect and not refer to a person, a minister, or whoever it is, as "you" because "you" is the same as pointing a finger. That's not the right way to do it. Address the minister as what is the minister doing or what is she?

The honourable member for Northside-Westmount on a point of order.

FRED TILLEY « » : I would like to rise on a point of order with regard to the comments made against me by the Minister of Seniors and Long-Term Care. In no way was my comment sexist. Those who know me will know that that's furthest from my personality and my work history and my actual - the way I deal with people. I demand an apology, Mr. Speaker, on that term and a retraction.

THE SPEAKER « » : That is not a point of order; it's a disagreement between two individuals. That's all it is. It's a disagreement.

The honourable Minister of Health and Wellness.

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. It's a clarification from yesterday. It is in no way meant to be adversarial, simply a clarification. The member for Dartmouth North mentioned yesterday that some hospitals were working at an 80 per cent vacancy rate, and she tabled an article, and I think the Official Opposition tabled an article as well. The clarification point is that there was actually a unit that was working at an 80 per cent vacancy rate. The actual hospital vacancy rate was 22 per cent. I don't say this to imply that that's acceptable. I simply worry that when we put statistics out there and talk about hospitals with an 80 per cent vacancy rate, it would prevent somebody from seeking care. I just want to raise that as a point of clarification.

[Page 4967]

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. I'm going to ask, in points like that, where something is used as a point of clarification, that it be put on the order paper and tabled in Reports of Committees. I want everybody to keep that in mind, that that's what you do. You'll stand up during the daily routine to address the situation.

The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition.

HON. ZACH CHURCHILL « » : Just a point of clarification from yourself, Mr. Speaker, on whether the Minister of Seniors and Long-term Care's comments were parliamentary.

THE SPEAKER « » : As far as addressing the Leader of the Official Opposition, we will take your point of order under advisement and report back tomorrow. We'll listen to the tapes and everything else and report back tomorrow.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS' BUSINESS

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Official Opposition House Leader.

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : Mr. Speaker, would you please call the order of business, Private Members' Public Bills for Second Reading.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BILLS FOR SECOND READING

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Official Opposition House Leader.

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 259.

Bill No. 259 - Income Tax Act (amended).

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE « » : Mr. Speaker, I stand today on this bill. It's something that I brought forward, in fact. It's something that I'm very passionate about. It is actually something that my local association, including my partner, has brought forward nine or ten times at a local level. We are hoping that . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. Before we get into the discussion, would the member please move second reading of the bill to make it official.

BRENDAN MAGUIRE « » : Mr. Speaker, I would like to move second reading of the bill.

[Page 4968]

Anyway, here we go. This is an important bill. What I will say is this - a year ago, almost to this day, the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board was on the Todd Veinotte Show, Mr. Speaker. He spoke about a better paycheque guarantee.

Mr. Veinotte asked him about that and the response from the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board was, wait and see next year's budget. That's what he said, wait and see next year's budget, Mr. Speaker. I will table that.

I actually received a call from the radio show right afterwards. My response was, I bet you every dollar I own, which is very little, that this is not going to happen.

Mr. Speaker, 12 months later the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board stood in his place yesterday when asked about this and said it wasn't a priority, that health care was their only priority. Well, I am going to let you in on a little secret: Health care is a priority. But do you know what else is a priority? Housing prices, the highest in the country; food costs, the highest in the country; fuel costs, some of the highest in the country; power rates which this government promised to protect and bungled it, the highest in the country; taxes, highest in the country.

The Minister of Finance and Treasury Board is going to stand up on this bill, I am sure, and here is what he is going to do. He doesn't need to stand up, Mr. Speaker, because I'm going to tell you what he is going to do. He is going to blame Justin Trudeau and the feds, he is going to say it's their fault. They are going to blame a carbon tax, which they bungled. They are going to blame the previous government. They are going to blame the municipalities, the HRM. They are going to say, you were in power. But they've had two years, and they've spent more money than any government in the history of Nova Scotia over the last two years.

They are presiding over a boom due to inflation. They are raking in money hand over fist, but they are spending it even faster than they get it. We heard the other day where they just gave $100 million for health care - and I use that in air quotes - to universities. They gave $400 million yesterday, or the other day, to health care professionals. Great, but they are giving nothing to the middle class, and they are giving nothing to the working class. They are taking, taking, taking.

They made promises. I stood there in the debate in my own community where the Progressive Conservative candidate said, I guarantee you a better paycheque, where the premier of the province stood there on the CBC during the debate and said, Day 1 you will get a better paycheque.

Listen, again, I am doing your homework for you. Take the idea. Eliminate bracket creep, it is the easiest, simplest thing you will ever do. Here we go: Well, why didn't you do it? I don't know, I'm not Stephen McNeil, and we did cut income tax, but I'm not Stephen McNeil. I wasn't the previous Darrell Dexter, I wasn't the other premiers before that. You are in power now, you made the promise, here you go.

[Page 4969]

Mr. Speaker, Nova Scotians cannot give any more; there's nothing left to give. We just saw a box of six bloody nuggets, or chicken wings, for $15.99. When is the last time anyone went to the grocery store and didn't drop $400, $300? People on social assistance, we increased it the largest ever. This government decided to do nothing.

We are the highest-taxed province in this country. There is nothing left to give. I ask all of you, everyone in this Chamber, I think we've all forgotten what it's like to struggle. I would argue that a lot of people in this Chamber probably have never struggled, by the look of the cars in the parking lot, right? We forgot what it's like to have everything paid for - sorry, we have everything paid for, so we forget what it's like.

People have nothing left to give and yet this government is spending money left and right. They tell us that money is not an object, because it's not their money. If the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board is going to stand up on this bill and blame the Trudeau government and blame previous governments and not take responsibility for his own actions, then don't bother standing up because we're past that. Nobody cares about that. They only care about what's happening to them now.

You have the ability to right this ship and you've chosen to leave middle class Nova Scotians and working-class Nova Scotians behind. Behind. They're going to say what he said yesterday. Well, you know what? Let me pull something out of my hat in Question Period.

We're giving money to skilled trades under 30. What about seniors who can't pay the Pharmacare? What about people on income assistance who are still getting six, seven hundred dollars for rent? They're giving money left and right to individuals. They just bought the most expensive hotel in the history of this province for $34 million, with tens of millions more left to go. There's nothing for working-class and middle-class Nova Scotians.

I will repeat this over and over. They have nothing left to give. Each and every one of you, especially on the government side, you build your budgets. You build your money. You renovate your ice rinks, you pave your roads, and you build your hospitals on the back of working-class and middle-class Nova Scotians. That's where the money is coming from. We know that.

I see people giving me looks. Well, you need to look at the tax base. Look at the tax base. Where is the majority of the money coming from in this province? Don't you think they deserve a break? You made a promise. You're only as good as your word. People are sick and tired of politicians standing there in place, making promises, and then reneging on them - saying, oh, we can't do it now, we can't do this now.

[Page 4970]

I think people have to come down from their ivory towers, and see what it's like to actually struggle. The average Nova Scotian's not getting mileage to drive from Cape Breton. They're not getting $50 a day to be here to do their job. They're not make $140,000 as a minister that's pensionable. They're not sitting on a ton of money that they made previously before they came into this job. They're not driving BMWs and Lexus and Town Cars, and all these expensive vehicles that we see out in the parking lot. Right?

This is just going to be finger-pointing. We know that. We know when the government gets up they're going to point their fingers and we hear: Oh, the carbon tax. Well, you know what? We voted against the carbon tax on this side. We stood against the carbon tax on this side. We gave you the solution. Yet you chose to politicize it and let it go through to gain a couple of points, to make yourself look good. You didn't think about the average Nova Scotian and the impact it was going to have on them.

So I implore you, Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister, this is the easiest decision you'll ever make. You want a better paycheque guarantee, this is it. Bracket creep. People who are lucky enough to get raises are having it wiped out by inflation. People who aren't getting raises are having their purchasing power decreased year after year after year because of inflation. We're now in a high period of inflation, so people are suffering even more.

But you know who's not suffering? Government - because they're getting more money from inflation. They're getting more money. If you look at some of the lists that come out - build facilities, and send out untendered contracts worth hundreds of millions and billions of dollars. Just give a little back.

I don't know how anybody can walk into a community of working-class, middle-class and low-income individuals whom we all represent and hold your head up high. I don't know. Maybe some of the members of the NDP - I still remember one of the members talking about the prices of food. Well, I challenged that member, because the prices have gone up even more.

We're now potentially on the cusp of massive impacts to the stock market. We're seeing this with some of the financial institutions in the world that are being bailed out again. That's people's retirement. That's people's money. I know when the government stands up, instead of saying yes, this is why we're going to do it, or no - just say no, this is why we're not going to do it. We want your money. That's what this is all about.

We have priorities, we want your money, and we're going to take your money and spend it. For anyone who listens to this - the six or seven people who are listening to this - I want you to know that Nova Scotia is the only province left in Canada that still does bracket creep - that still does this. The only province left. Every other province - Liberal, Conservative, NDP - has come to their senses. I think it will be extremely insulting for anyone with any bit of education, with any bit of financial experience to stand up and instead of defending your position, point fingers. We've heard it.

[Page 4971]

On the War in Ukraine, here's what we've heard: We've heard the Trudeau government, we heard municipalities are at fault, we heard inflation, which we were told - what was it? That inflation was just going to go away? We were told that inflation was just going to go away. It's kind of like that statement - budgets are going to balance themselves, right? That's what I feel like we're doing here. People need their money. They can't send their kids to school with proper clothing. They can't send their kids with healthy food. Kids can't play in normal activities and normal sports. Is that fair? Seniors are struggling. The last two years have been particularly hard because of inflation.

We've had record inflation, and this government has done nothing to support the people who voted them into power - and don't think they're not watching. Don't think they're not listening. We have a bill before the House now where they're going to increase the rent cap to 5 per cent - 5 per cent a year because they can afford it, right? People in the Chamber who make $100,000 a year certainly can afford it, right?

I'm hearing from small business owners who just can't do it anymore. They can't afford it. I implore you - instead of making excuses, instead of digging in your partisan heels, instead of saying this is red versus blue versus orange, just do the right thing. Show the people of Nova Scotia some faith in politics. Show them that it's not just about you and it's not just about your party.

I haven't spoken to my colleagues over in the NDP, but I'd almost guarantee you this would have unanimous consent of the House. We could vote this through today, right now, this second, if the government decided. We'd waive it, we'd let it through. The power is in your hands. This is supposed to be the party of cutting taxes, and small government, and fiscal responsibility. That's what they tell us. This is an easy one, people. We can call it the "Whatever Bill You Want." Just get it done.

I can't stress to you enough, if you stand up and make excuses and point fingers, you have lost touch with Nova Scotians - Nova Scotians who are struggling to pay their bills, who are being crippled by power bills, who are in tears when they go to the grocery store, that they can't give any more - and you're asking every single year.

When inflation goes up, you're asking Nova Scotians to give more. It's a hidden tax which we are now exposing, and I've brought forward year after year, and I'm asking you to do this. Do it. There's nothing left to give. You're either going to be fiscally conservative or, I don't know, Trudeau federals. You tell me which one you're going to be. You're spending, spending, spending - now give a break. You are spending taxpayers' dollars. Now it's time to give it back. Let people have food on the table. Let people have clothes on their backs. Let children, families, and seniors, and every Nova Scotian, have the ability to live the fullest life they possibly can with the money they earn - not the money you deserve.

[Page 4972]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

LISA LACHANCE « » : I'm glad to rise and speak to this bill. I do think this is a timely conversation to have at this period of inflationary pressure and the experiences that we're having in this province.

As my colleague mentioned, Nova Scotia is really the only province, aside from P.E.I., that does not index income tax brackets to inflation. We haven't done so over many years - and we have the highest tax rate. The federal government indexes to inflation, and so do most of the provinces.

As we know, households in our province are having an incredibly difficult time making ends meet. Inflation is having a massive impact on household budgets - and business budgets as well. Considering indexing income taxes to inflation is perhaps most important for the well-being of those in the lower tax brackets, it's easy to imagine how so many folks are struggling. Even if their wages increase - and we're not really seeing that in Nova Scotia. The Liberals and the PCs have been slow to implement any minimum wage increases, if at all. Even if wages increase, purchasing power is falling, and thus the difficult decisions ensue.

Households are wondering how to pay their rent or mortgage to keep a safe home, how to pay the power bills or keep the lights on, how to buy enough groceries, how to get their kids into programs and get them what they need. We are seeing and hearing from Nova Scotians every day about how they feel scared and the impacts they feel and see in their communities. This isn't a matter of being negative. These are the phone calls and emails that I'm sure we are all receiving.

By not indexing income taxes to inflation, we are really losing out on a lot of ability of families to manage their budgets well and to move forward. As my colleague mentioned, these are actually quite invisible taxes, so any other tax move can be analyzed and seen in the budgets, and that sort of thing. The fact that our income taxes are not indexed to inflation is something that just kind of rolls forward every year. I think it is time to finally consider tax reform in Nova Scotia.

If we're going to look at indexing income tax brackets as they do in other jurisdictions, we should also look at other ideas about whether there are other ways to make up revenue in the top income brackets. That is the principle behind why our party has proposed things like a luxury tax on yachts or a luxury tax on fancy cars. Other jurisdictions have sought out other options. In British Columbia, there's an extra tax on homes assessed over $3 million.

[Page 4973]

There are many proposals for how to make our taxation system fairer. Indexing brackets is part of that conversation, but it's not the whole picture.

While Nova Scotians - all of us - are facing record high inflation, it also has an outsized effect on government revenues. We have seen that over a time as each fiscal update shows surprise revenues, and it has been difficult for planning purposes. With inflation, government is collecting more sales tax revenue and more income tax revenue than expected. Revenues have been consistently above estimates for the last several fiscal updates, while average people struggle to pay more for their grocery bills, power bills, and homes.

This leaves people with a very reasonable feeling that they are being fleeced. They are losing control of more and more of the income that comes into their families, while government has more and more income to make decisions with a lack of accountability and transparency.

I would highlight that the more than $1 billion in additional appropriations to date in this fiscal year is an example of where Nova Scotians are not having a chance to weigh in on how the government is spending their money. Those additional appropriations don't require a discussion in the House. We are all elected to represent the views of Nova Scotians. We should all be playing that part in ensuring that the spending of government matches the priorities of Nova Scotians.

Because of the increased revenues for government, our caucus has also presented a host of proposals that would help people better afford to live their lives and care for their families - things like a permanent system of rent control, waiving Pharmacare fees, and building affordable housing. We have also called for direct supports to people to help them through this extremely difficult inflationary period.

Of course, taxes pay for important things. But again, it gets back to a question of whether we're able to consider a budget that is tabled openly and transparently in this House, and to consider how it matches priorities for Nova Scotians.

With that, I will conclude. I will note that we do appreciate this issue being part of the discussion. We're looking forward to hearing from the government and their plans to make taxes more fair in Nova Scotia.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Colchester North.

TOM TAGGART « » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for this opportunity to speak to Bill No. 259. Health care is a defining issue of our time. When we came to government, we were faced with a health care system in crisis and desperately in need of investment. This government is willing to make the investment. Why? The residents in Nova Scotia spoke a year and a half ago and they told us that they wanted this fixed. Our Premier listened, and he still listens. He and the Minister of Health and Wellness met with thousands of health care workers who have told them what needs to happen. The Premier listened to their concerns and has said that whatever it takes, whatever costs, we will do it.

[Page 4974]

[3:15 p.m.]

I expect that tomorrow's budget will continue to shine a light on our government's plan. Years of neglect cannot be fixed overnight. The Opposition knows this, but they continue to act as though it should all be fixed yesterday. When I read Bill No. 259, it appears the Opposition's plan for fixing health care is to reduce the amount of money available. This government is willing to spend what it takes to fix health care in this province and it appears the Opposition doesn't feel that way.

The question is do we do as the Opposition asks and reduce our revenue and reduce health care services or do we leave it in the very capable hands of our Minister of Finance and Treasury Board to manage the finances of this province? (Interruption) I wrote this, too. (Laughter)

Mr. Speaker, I think that we would all like to reduce taxes, however being in government is about making tough decisions. We must be responsible and reasonable. We must improve health care, and it will take money. So Mr. Speaker, let's take a look at indexing. Based on the annual Consumer Price Index in Nova Scotia, the cost of indexing the Province's personal income tax bracket and non-refundable block of credits is approximately $123 million for the 2023 taxation year. This is $123 million less for health care.

I am very proud to be part of this government that has faced the realities of these health care challenges head-on. Tomorrow our Finance and Treasury Board Minister will present his budget. Undoubtedly it will focus on better health care and a prudent, yet realistic, financial plan as we go forward.

The Opposition has had eight years to index our taxes and fix our health care. Look at where we are today. Like so many Nova Scotians did a year and a half ago, I will put my faith in Minister MacMaster, Minister Thompson, and Premier Houston.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Northside-Westmount.

FRED TILLEY « » : I appreciate the acknowledgement and I am very happy to stand and speak about the bill that we put forward to end bracket creep in Nova Scotia. Just referring to my colleague across the aisle who indicated that health care is the number one issue that they have been elected on and they are working on. I understand that that is what they need to do. They want to fix health care but they have been pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into health care over the last 18 to 24 months and all we see are increases in wait times for surgeries, increases in the family doctor registry, increases in vacancies - you can go on and on and on.

[Page 4975]

While I get the sentiment of wanting to protect health care, there is also another major issue in this province that they are not talking about, which is affordability and poverty and the ability for people to live, eat, and heat their homes. Mr. Speaker, in Nova Scotia - and I just want to address one other topic. The member mentioned there were eight years previously to fix that. Well, unfortunately for me, I wasn't in this seat eight years ago but as finance critic it certainly is something that would be first on my radar, to index the tax brackets in Nova Scotia.

We find ourselves in a very significant period in inflation. Everything costs more, and what I would like to point out to Nova Scotians is that if you live in Nova Scotia and you earn - let's just take an arbitrary number - $50,000. A $50,000 income in Nova Scotia pays the highest provincial tax in all of the Atlantic Provinces.

We need that to sink in for a little minute. If you live in Nova Scotia, you're paying the highest provincial taxes in Atlantic Canada. Now, if we go further than Atlantic Canada, it gets even worse, but I'm going to stick to comparables here and compare ourselves with Atlantic Canada.

So, on average, if you make $50,000 a year in Nova Scotia or New Brunswick, in Nova Scotia you're going to pay about $1,000 more in provincial taxes. In Nova Scotia, you're going to pay about $700 more than your cousin in Newfoundland and Labrador. You're going to pay $200-and-some dollars more than your friends in Prince Edward Island.

Mr. Speaker, when you compound that over the working life of the average person - 30 or 35 years - you're talking an out-of-pocket difference between a Nova Scotian and a New Brunswicker of $30,000. Can you imagine how Nova Scotians would be able to better feed their families, better provide - better growth in our economy and the use of small businesses if that money was in their pockets?

My colleague from the NDP talked about the arbitrary spending. By the time we finish this term, it's going to be in the billions, with no Legislature oversight on that money.

On average, someone in Nova Scotia will pay in their working life $6,000 more than a resident of Prince Edward Island and $21,000 more than a resident of Newfoundland and Labrador. Those are significant numbers - the better part of a year of your working life in gross income paid more in income taxes.

We all know that the prices at the grocery store are going through the roof. We see it every day. You go in and you get a bag of groceries and you come out; the next week, that same bag is significantly more. We see it in heating fuel. We see it in gas. People are being squeezed. It's very difficult in Nova Scotia.

[Page 4976]

An easy way to put some relief back in the hands of Nova Scotians is to end this practice of bracket creep. We look at the retention bonuses that were just paid out across the province. Over $300 million. It's great that we're providing retention bonuses to our health care workers, but I bet you that they don't realize that bracket creep is going to take a significant portion of that bonus away. It's going to put them into a higher - Mr. Speaker, the lowest bracket in Nova Scotia is $29,000. The federal bracket for the lowest is $59,000. There's a $30,000 gap in that bracket where we will pay 6 per cent more on that $30,000 than we do on federal tax.

Look, I know revenue is required. I'm sure we're going to see in the budget tomorrow. But when we see the number of announcements in March Madness that we've seen over the last couple of weeks, you have to wonder about the management of those dollars. Why, all of a sudden, are we throwing $25 million here, $50 million there, $100 million here, and $300 million there? Coincidentally, it's all coming in the month of March - the last month of the fiscal year. I will leave that to conjecture.

Mr. Speaker, I'm not going to go on about this, I'm going to end it here. What I will say is this is not a partisan bill. This is not anything meant to embarrass anybody because it's about Nova Scotians. It's about putting more money in the pockets of Nova Scotians when they need it, where they need it, so let's all do the right thing and let's pass this bill in the Legislature. I'm not sure if I have to close debate. No, sorry, okay.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cumberland North.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : I am going to start my words in support of this bill with some quotes from the Premier when he was Leader of the Opposition just a short time ago. I'll table the Hansard documents.

This is a quote from our Premier and based on this quote from our Premier I'm anticipating that we are going to see changes in our income tax brackets tomorrow when our provincial budget is tabled because we heard the Premier when he was Opposition Leader say:

"We still see the bracket creep issue on our personal income tax returns. That is slowly eating away and slowly draining more money from people who are trying to earn more and are trying to move ahead. That's an issue that's still there, and I don't know why this government is so reluctant to speak to the issue and try to address that issue. It is a known issue that could be addressed. So we see more taxes in the bracket creep. We see more taxes, more fees, more charges that are always creeping up in people's lives. When you go to register your car at the Registry of Motor Vehicles, it costs a little more now this time than it did last time - every type of fee and stuff. There's many of them that we encounter all the time."

[Page 4977]

I'll table this quote.

These are the words of our current Premier, so he clearly understands the importance and impact of bracket creep on taxpayers of Nova Scotia. Some of the people who have already spoken in support of this bill have shared a lot of numbers and a lot of data. It is something that a lot of Nova Scotians are simply not aware of. They are simply not aware that our income tax brackets are not being increased in line with inflation, like every other province in the country.

There's lots of data, Mr. Speaker, that shows the negative impact that this has on people's pocketbooks. I have a lot of respect for my colleague from Colchester North and I do want to make a comment about one of his statements about the priority for the government is improving people's health care. I want to let the member for Colchester North know that when you are looking at health, the number one thing you can do to improve people's health is to ensure they have enough money to live and to eat.

If you study the 12 determinants of health, you will see that the number one determinant of health is income. The number one determinant that determines your health status is income.

The people in this province who are most dramatically affected by bracket creep - by the fact that we as a province do not increase our income tax brackets in correlation with inflation or with the CPI, the Consumer Price Index - the people who are dramatically impacted by this are people who are living in poverty.

There are several reports you can read from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. The Halifax Chamber of Commerce has written about this. In fact, that is in their pre-submission budget for the government. You also have the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives. They've written on this topic and there's a lot of data that shows that Nova Scotia has the highest poverty rates in the country. We have the highest child poverty rate in Canada. The number one way of improving that is making sure people have more money. Ignoring the fact that we are the only province that does not index our income tax brackets, I believe, is irresponsible.

The decision to not index our income tax brackets is a purposeful decision telling people who are living in poverty in Nova Scotia that it is okay that you have to go to the food bank. The government is purposely making the decision - it's not the first government, but by not indexing our income tax brackets, we are saying to people who live on disability, people who live on income assistance, students, people who are low-wage income workers in this province, we are making a purposeful decision that they will have less money, that they will have less money than they deserve because they live in Nova Scotia.

[Page 4978]

[3:30 p.m.]

You look at the rate of inflation, and you think about the income tax brackets that are going up in every other province, but the people who live here, because they live in Nova Scotia, I'm talking specifically about people who are living in poverty, they are going to be further punished simply because they live here in the province of Nova Scotia.

I believe that not only should we be indexing our income tax brackets here in Nova Scotia, we should also be increasing our basic personal exemption. I will table this document. Right now, Nova Scotia's basic personal tax exemption - a lot of people might be looking at this right now because they are doing their taxes - is $8,481. That is 2002 levels. That means the first $8,481 that Nova Scotians earn is not taxed. We're the lowest. Again, we are the lowest in the country.

Just for comparison, let's look at the highest. In Alberta - we wonder why so many of our young people are going to Alberta. This might be one reason. They don't pay any income tax on the first $19,000. That's an over $10,000 difference. I'm not asking that we match Alberta, but I am suggesting that we shouldn't be the lowest, that we shouldn't be $11,000 lower than Alberta. Mr. Speaker, I believe we should be paying the national average. We should be giving people a basic personal income tax exemption of at least the national average. We are the lowest, which means Nova Scotians are paying the highest income tax in all of Canada.

If we choose to leave that the way it is, if we don't see a change in this in tomorrow's budget, the message we are sending to Nova Scotians is not that they care about health care or their health. It's actually the opposite because income is the number one determinant of health, income and financial status.

Personally, I think we should be making every effort to stop or reduce people's needs for food bank usage. I think we should be reducing the need for our community volunteers to be working diligently every week to put food in bags to give students, to give children, so they have food on the weekend. It sounds dramatic, Mr. Speaker, but this is what's happening. I don't know if it's happening in the rest of Nova Scotia. I assume it is. In Cumberland County, we have seniors and people working every day gathering food so that they can give it to children on Friday so they have food to eat on the weekend. Many of these children have parents who are low-wage income workers or single-parent families or family members who are on income assistance or families with a disability. These, we know, are the families that are struggling in poverty.

All of these things that I have mentioned, Mr. Speaker, can all be impacted by two things: increasing the basic personal tax exemption - stop being the lowest in the entire country; and start indexing our income tax brackets. Start treating Nova Scotians fairly and if we really truly care about their health, we will do everything we can to make sure they have more of their own money in their own pockets.

[Page 4979]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

HON. JOHN LOHR « » : It is a privilege to get up and speak in this House for a few moments on Bill No. 259. I wonder if anyone who spoke on the bill so far actually took time to read the bill. I do want to read it. I think I have the bill in front of me - 259 - and I'll just read the critical section before I start to speak on it. The only section. The bill is less than half a page, actually.

Add the following subsection, "Notwithstanding subsection (1), the tax payable pursuant to that subsection is adjusted for each taxation year after 2022 by increasing each of the dollar amounts referred to in that subsection by the increase of the Consumer Price Index for Canada in each of those taxation years over the Consumer Price Index for Canada in the immediately preceding taxation year."

It is a noble effort by my colleague for Halifax Atlantic, but it is actually fairly confusing. It appears to suggest that the tax will increase as well. Not only does it not mention the word "bracket creep", but it appears to suggest that the taxes will go up as well. The tax payable will be adjusted each year by an increasing amount.

Anyway, it's a fairly confusing bill, Mr. Speaker, which calls into question the newfound motivation on the part of the Opposition, having been there from 2013 to 2021 and this issue was not addressed in that time. It was raised once or twice in a time when we had balanced budgets. However at that time, and I still feel that way, the balanced budgets were balanced on the back of health care at that time.

I could call it "deferred maintenance". There were a number of years when there was $70 or $80 million in the health infrastructure maintenance and repair fund which was not addressed. They were just simply not spent and I remember asking the then-member for Kings West why this $70 million or $80 million line item in the budget was not spent. His answer was that it's difficult to spend money on things like my colleague at that time asking for the steps to be repaired at the Northside General.

At that time, things were just not done so we have inherited, as a government, vast areas of deferred maintenance on health care spending. The reality is that we are addressing those areas of deferred maintenance. Even though we may have had a balanced budget at that time, it was balanced on the backs of Nova Scotians.

We're playing catch-up, there's no doubt about that. We didn't start on an even playing field. We started with the playing field tilted pretty hard the other way on health care and on many, many fronts. Infrastructure, maintenance, wages and all sorts of areas in which we are struggling to address the crisis in the province which we are now beginning to address even in terms of software.

[Page 4980]

We're looking at things and wondering why on Earth money wasn't spent on them. Why wasn't this problem addressed? There was one focus and everything else fell by the wayside. That is an admirable focus, I won't deny that, to have a balanced budget, but we balanced it on the backs of health care.

We balanced it on the backs of our paramedics. We were talking about paramedics earlier today. We tried for two years to get the Fitch Report in our hands. We couldn't get that. Why? I don't know why. Maybe because the government of the day didn't want to address the crisis in paramedicine which was already brewing at that time.

We started behind the 8 ball on some of this stuff and we are working as hard as we can. We're going as fast as we can, as our Premier has said, to address these crises. All of these things are going to take money, Mr. Speaker. We know right now that, as much as I would like to see lower taxes just like everybody else, we have to address what I would call areas of deferred maintenance on every front in our health care. We are doing that to a lesser extent, but it's also to consider housing and other fields.

As a government, we are facing challenges, but the good news is that the province is growing. I believe that all of the things that we're spending money on are investments in the future of this province. I believe that we will see the benefit of those investments as we spend money on health care, as we spend money on housing, as we spend money on roads, as we spend money in every other field the government has to deal with - on better software, on other things that are immense challenges to us as a government. I believe that we will see the benefit of those.

As we know, Nova Scotia is an incredible place to live. We have people coming from around the world to live here from across Canada. We know we will have more people. We are a party that supports immigration. I am the son of immigrants myself, Mr. Speaker. My parents, when they came here, came here penniless. They had no two cents to rub together, and they didn't speak English. They made it. I am very proud of them. They worked hard. They learned the language here.

My father came here and what he did have was a world-class education in farming, actually. That's what all those Dutch farmers that came here had. They had a world-class education from Holland in how to farm.

I asked him one time, "How did you get here? You had no money." I was always of the belief that the Government of Canada paid their passage here. I realize I'm digressing off the bill a bit, and I apologize. They came here on a luxury liner, and I was always of the belief that the Government of Canada had paid their way here, but in truth, the Government of Holland had paid to get rid of them. I guess that was to send them over here. But it wasn't to get rid of them. It was stemming out of the enormous goodwill between the two countries following the liberation of Holland by Canada in 1944 and 1945.

[Page 4981]

I am the son of immigrants - immigrants who didn't have money, immigrants who didn't speak the language - and I know I am probably not the only one in the House who can say that. I don't know if I am. But I am very proud of them.

I believe that there are more people in the world who want to come here and will come here, and as we invest in good health care, in good roads, in new economic development, in good government systems - things that had been left uninvested in - as we invest in those things, we will see this province grow and prosper.

I realize I'm getting some chirping from the member for Yarmouth. It is a little bit difficult to keep on my train of thought as I'm doing that, so I apologize for that, if you are distracting me. I would invite the member to stand up and have your say on the bill as well. You'll have your opportunity as well.

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. I just remind you to speak through the Speaker.

The honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

JOHN LOHR « » : Mr. Speaker, I just would like to suggest to you that maybe we make provision for the member for Yarmouth, who is making comments, to either curtail his comments - it's up to you, Mr. Speaker. I don't want to tell you what to do. He'll have his opportunity, right? (Interruption) What's that?

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. The honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing has the floor.

JOHN LOHR « » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We realize the challenges of the tax system. We realize that we have higher taxes than other jurisdictions nearby. We realize those challenges. We are investing in the Province of Nova Scotia to see the province grow in unprecedented ways. I believe that as we put in good systems of education, good systems of health care, good roads, economic development, all the things that we are doing - addressing the housing crisis - as we do these things, we will see this province grow and prosper, and as we have more people working here and paying taxes, we will be able to see and reap the benefit of those investments.

We went through a period of time - I mean, the reality is that this is an Opposition bill. The Opposition now sees the light on taxes. They had eight years to see the light on taxes. They didn't do that, nor did they invest in many of things that I am talking about. They invested to a lesser extent, but not enough, Mr. Speaker. We know that it was falling behind. The health care bill was paid for on the backs of Nova Scotians. We are trying to turn that around.

[Page 4982]

[3:45 p.m.]

We are trying our very best. I know we campaigned on that. We told the public that it would take time. We are doing everything we can to turn that around, and if there is anything more that we can do, we welcome suggestions from the Opposition too on what we need to do. We welcome that.

We will do more and we will see that turned around. We are investing in all those things that were, in my opinion, really deferred maintenance. Things that needed to be done that weren't done. And where we were running on 20-year old systems in some cases, and 30-year old systems, we're trying to bring this up to the 21^st century to 2023. We will do that. It's going to take money. We will meet that challenge, Mr. Speaker. Our budget will meet that challenge.

We're going to go forward and see this province grow. We're going to see it be a place that welcomes people from every part of the world - every faith, every religion, every skin colour, all of those things, Mr. Speaker. Just like my family was welcomed in, not speaking English, we can see that. Coming from another country we can see that we will welcome those people in. We will make room for them. We will provide the systems for them and meet all those challenges of growth.

And the challenge of growth is a much better challenge to have than the challenge of decline. We see growth. Growth demands that everything happens at the same time. We need to have more health care, we need to have better roads, we need to have more housing, all at the same time. It's like trying to . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. I'd remind the honourable member to keep it to the bill at hand. I recognize the honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

JOHN LOHR « » : The purpose of bracket creep, as I understand it, that comment is to tell us to spend less, because we have less revenue. I'm trying to explain why we're spending more. And I think, actually, in fairness to myself, the Opposition was talking about the spending more aspect of it, fairly at length too. So I think this was - I'm responding to the comments that I heard from the other side on the bill. In reality, it was about spending.

The reality is that we need to spend, and we need the revenue. We need the revenue to address the challenges of today, hoping that those challenges which we address will result in a better, more vibrant, economically healthy province tomorrow. That we'll be able to see greater revenue on every front and see us reduce taxes as we see the province grow and prosper, and what gives me hope, and I know that every member of the House hopes that too.

One of the things that gives me hope is that for the first time in maybe 100 years, we see the demographic, the median age dropping slightly. We see our population getting slightly younger. I think our median age is in the 45s.

[Page 4983]

I can tell you that in 2013 I had the privilege of going to Kenya as a vegetable consultant, a vegetable farmer, that's what I was, and helping very, very poor Kenyan women's groups. In reality, the women were farmers there. We worked with three or four women's groups. They had 150 farms in each group, and the median age in that country was 15 years old, if you can imagine that.

But we're an older country that needs to get younger. We need more young people to help work here. We're encouraging that through our More Opportunity for Skilled Trades program, which is a tax break. And I know we're talking about tax breaks here. So I will point out that that is one that we are doing, the More Opportunity for Skilled Trade program. So those are things that we are doing, Mr. Speaker.

We will meet the challenges of the province. We will meet the challenges of fixing health care. We will meet the challenges of immigration, locally or internationally. We will welcome those people. We will welcome immigrants to this province, just like my family was welcomed.

We will see this province grow. We will meet the challenges here - and doing all that, we will ultimately, I believe, be able to reduce taxes. We can't do it right now. We have to meet those areas of deferred maintenance which I was referring to that preclude that right now because that's the reality. Everything has to happen at the same time when you're growing. You need more of everything at the same time, and that is a challenge. That is a challenge that we are meeting.

So with those few words, I will - I've got 42 seconds left. My goodness, I can say one more thing, can't I? (Interruption)

Oh my goodness. Yes. I just want to mention, too, that we're not only investing in all the areas I mentioned, we're investing in sports and recreation too, and all the things that my colleague to the right, the Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage Minister is investing in, which we all very much appreciate across the province. That is also an incredibly important way for our health to be maintained too.

THE SPEAKER « » : I can only recognize the honourable member for Halifax Atlantic to end debate, so if there are any other members who wish to speak on this bill.

The honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : There's only about two minutes left before we have to move on to the next bill, but I do appreciate the conversation back and forth.

[Page 4984]

I will say this is something that - and I'll talk about this as we get into the budget and there will be other bills about things we can do that are tangible, that can help people immediately and this is one of them.

There has been a lot of conversation about the bill and not really about the bill in the last hour. I do want to say this - and I hear this comment from the government that says, oh, you know, in eight years this never happened or that never happened. But they came to Sydney, the whole caucus. They put on the hard hats, they put on the jackets, and they put on the boots and they went to every development that they didn't support when they were in Opposition and they pretended - even at the dinner, on the jumbotron all of the pictures were there - "look at what we've done."

It's crazy to me, as the guy who took - and I guarantee what this government wouldn't have done is go to that same facility and close those facilities in those communities like we did. The tough decisions were made. They didn't support them. They came to Sydney, put on the hats and said, "Look what we did." It's unbelievable.

I had to say that, and I'll talk about bracket creep and other things because we have other bills (Interruptions) Let me talk, because I've heard this in Question Period and everything else, and I'm sitting there going, eight years of waste, you put it on the jumbotron at the chicken dinner for the Chamber of Commerce. Look at what we did, the community college, oh my God, it's great, and the cancer centre, oh my God, it's great, and you didn't support any of it.

I just want to get that on the record, we've got a minute left in this debate. Bracket creep is one bill we're putting forward that we think the government could tangibly do to support Nova Scotians.

There's another bill that we're going to talk about again today, and as we get into the budget, what I'm going to be looking for are those tangible things. Health care is important but feeding kids lunch is also part of health care. That's just as important of an investment. Those are the things that I'm going to be looking for personally as we go through the budget, because other things aside from bracket creep that I'll also be watching is some of the other commitments from the government, because I don't think the better paycheque guarantee is ever coming to this floor.

I think the minister today, and in so many other words, said it's not coming. I'm not predicting that it's going to ever come to the floor of this Legislature. Anyway, I think we are past debate on this.

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. The time allocated to debate this bill has elapsed. The bill is adjourned.

The honourable Official Opposition House Leader.

[Page 4985]

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You came into an interesting afternoon in the Chair.

Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 257.

Bill No. 257 - Health Services and Insurance Act (amended).

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition.

HON. ZACH CHURCHILL « » : I rise today in support of our bill, which was tabled yesterday, Bill No. 257, which would ensure that continuous glucose monitors are covered by the Province of Nova Scotia for all those in the province who need those devices.

Of course, health care is facing significant challenges from a staffing perspective, from a patient attachment to a family doctor perspective. Our ERs are closing twice as much. One thing we do know is that the vast majority - I believe it is north of 80, potentially north of 90 per cent of the funds that we spend in our health care system, human resources, financial, technical resources, are in the last three months of somebody's life. We spend a lot of time, the vast majority of resources during that very difficult time when individuals are dealing with the most critical illnesses and the most damaging conditions.

We are not going to fix health care in this province until we have a plan that's actually going to help people be healthier, that's preventive in nature, that is going to take a lot of that acute pressure off of the system, save resources in the system but, most importantly, save lives in Nova Scotia and help people have a higher quality of life for much longer.

We do believe that supporting and paying for glucose monitoring systems would be a very good step in the direction of that. We know that there are a lot of complications related to diabetes, from cardiovascular to Alzheimer's and other illnesses. We've had members in this Chamber who have experienced very serious complications related to that illness, and while this government was elected to fix health care, we really do not believe this is going to be possible unless we help people be healthier. Sadly, in Nova Scotia, we have an extremely high rate of diabetes as approximately 12 per cent of our population has been diagnosed with type 1 or type 2 diabetes. That is now more than 100,000 people here in the province of Nova Scotia, and we do need to focus on ways to support those who live with diabetes by providing these new technologies that prevent strain on them and on the system.

A continuous glucose monitor is one of those technologies that we can make more accessible to Nova Scotians, we believe, Mr. Speaker, and, as I mentioned, preventive care is so much more effective, it's less harmful physically and emotionally for patients, and to parents, family members, friends, and loved ones. It's also much more costly to have someone who requires surgery or to be hospitalized due to complications related to diabetes when that can be avoided. We know we can save resources and save money, and continuous glucose monitors are key to achieving that goal.

[Page 4986]

Let me share the story of Tara and her son, Cody, from Cape Breton. Just last month, Cody, who lives with type 1 diabetes, was away at post-secondary school. He is also an athlete who plays school sports. He returned to his apartment after a practice and, like his other teammates, had supper, did some schoolwork, and went to bed. Cody uses the continuous glucose monitor. During the night while he slept, his blood sugar started to drop. It's not uncommon to have a delayed blood sugar response after training and it is really hard to predict as it varies with the type of activity, body types, the meals that individuals have, the stress levels, the site of the pump as well. There's just a lot of variables to consider and that impact us.

Tara, who was at home three hours away, was woken up at 1:00 a.m. by an alert on her phone from Cody's monitor, indicating that his sugar levels were dropping. She first texted him and tried him by phone, and called him multiple times, along with calling his roommate - there was no answer. Tara is three hours away and watching Cody's blood sugars drop dangerously low, and she felt helpless. Tara called EHS for a wellness check. She knew Cody had everything he needed and would know what to do to correct his blood sugar levels, but first he needed to wake up.

EHS arrived on the scene about seven minutes later and managed to wake up Cody's roommate, who let them in. The EHS then managed to wake up Cody, and his levels were exceptionally low. Fortunately for him, he had some juice boxes around that he was able to consume, and after a few moments he was alert again. The paramedic called Tara to assure her that they did not have to transport Cody to hospital and confirmed that Cody was okay. His first response to his mom was by text, and he said that I'm good, mom, and thank you.

Tara told us that she apologized initially as she knows how much health care resources are overstretched. She worked in health care for over 25 years herself and knows the struggles that health care workers face every day. The paramedics quickly validated Tara's concerns in her call for help, telling Tara never to hesitate, as this was a very easy call that had a good outcome. The paramedic went on to say that with these situations, diabetics are often found in seizures or worse, and that as a paramedic, he would rather take 1,000 of these calls instead of the dreaded trip to the hospital or, even worse, to the morgue.

[4:00 p.m.]

This is an example that is really close to home here in Nova Scotia. It shows how continuous glucose monitors actually do save lives, and that risks from long-term complications are far less - and immediate complications, short-term complications, are far less - when an individual who needs this device has access to one.

[Page 4987]

I am pleased to say that after this incident, Cody was able to attend classes and training again the very next day. He continues to thrive to this day.

By investing now, we can help over 100,000 Nova Scotians just like Cody live longer and healthier lives. Nova Scotians who have diabetes face a financial barrier to access continuous glucose monitors. We hope the government listens and follows suit of the P.E.I. Progressive Conservative government by creating a program to fund continuous glucose monitors. That was just announced recently.

According to Diabetes Canada, CGMs mostly cost between $3,000 and $6,000 per year, and there are at least 124,000 Nova Scotians currently diagnosed with type 1 and type 2 diabetes. It currently costs an estimated $116 million each year to the health care system on issues related to diabetic complications and health care complications related to that illness. That is a major cost to our system.

We can also take pressure on our overworked health care members away from them and we can actually redirect health care resources back into our system if we can save money by investing in CGMs. We're happy to have worked with Diabetes Canada and local advocates who support this bill, as they have been advocating for continuous glucose monitor coverage in recent years.

CGMs improve the lives of those living with diabetes and help to prevent more complex issues down the road. Complications for those living with diabetes are exacerbated when they do not have access to this technology that can improve their lives and lengthen their life span.

We really do need to be working on more preventive measures in this province if we are going to improve our health care system, because there's no improving our health care system without improving people's health first.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : I am happy to rise and speak to this bill. It's a very important bill. As my colleague has talked about, the impacts of living with diabetes, type 1 or type 2, can be very difficult on families, on individuals, on future health of individuals with diabetes. We should be doing everything we can to keep people who have diabetes as healthy as possible. We know that continuous glucose monitors - and insulin pumps, by the way - are two very important tools to keep folks with diabetes healthy. Yes, I am happy to speak to this bill.

The Nova Scotia Insulin Pump Program was established by our former NDP government to help Nova Scotians afford the high cost of insulin pumps. We watched with great concern as the Liberal government cut the funding to this program over the years they were in power - a program that began with $5.3 million in funding was slashed to $815,000 in recent years by the Liberal government.

[Page 4988]

AN HON. MEMBER: It was based on need.

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : Exactly, thank you very much. Mr. Speaker, I am just going to speak and hope that people don't continue to interrupt.

Yes, it was based on need. That's what the Liberals said when they were in power as to why the budget was cut to $815,000. At the time, the now-Leader of the Liberal Party was the Minister of Health and Wellness, and he claimed that the cuts were due to decreasing uptake. Our response to that, Mr. Speaker, was that they should have, at the time, taken the opportunity to expand the program to cover more people or cover more devices, such as glucose monitors.

THE SPEAKER « » : Order.

The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : Thank you to my honourable colleague for looking out for me. So yes: to cover more devices, such as glucose monitors.

We know that the current government to date has not expanded the program either. I do hope that they take this opportunity to look at this program very closely and to pass this bill, because it's an important one.

The cost of insulin pumps can be and is cost-prohibitive for many Nova Scotians because insulin pumps can cost up to $8,000 per purchase. We know that even for those who already have a pump purchased in the early years of the program, replacements are needed. Around the five-year mark, they need to be replaced. One pump does not do you for the rest of your life. It needs to continually be upgraded, and of course, as technology improves there will be - I would assume - better and better technology in the pumps and in the monitors.

For this reason, we have not been able to get our heads around the drastic cuts that went into that program. Diabetes is an ongoing, lifetime disease. It's a chronic disease, and the expense is a lifetime expense for people living with diabetes.

Glucose monitors are life-improving devices that are also cost-prohibitive, just like the insulin pumps, and so we welcome this bill. Like I said, we do welcome this initiative to build on the program's legacy, and we feel that this would be an ideal time to look at updating this program more broadly. We need to re-examine the eligibility criteria and remove the current age cap for eligibility. Currently, adults over 25 aren't eligible for funding under this program at all. We need to make sure that the cost of glucose monitoring and insulin pumps is covered for all Nova Scotians under an updated program.

[Page 4989]

We know that the community and the diabetes advocates have been calling to eliminate the age cap. Professionals in the community - doctors and health care professionals who are treating folks with diabetes - have also been calling for the elimination of the age cap, and the age cap has been removed in many other provinces.

I want to call out the Liberal Party for not taking proper action when they had the opportunity, but I also want to thank them for bringing this bill back to the fore to the House - the fore and the floor of the House. I hope that the government will take this opportunity to look seriously at these changes. There is so much more support needed for people in Nova Scotia living with diabetes. We welcome this change, and we will continue to push for more.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Hants West.

MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD « » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is good to see you in the chair - not a very comfortable one as it is.

I rise today because I wanted to speak to Bill No. 257, the Health Services and Insurance Act (amended). It's easy to say that all of us in this Chamber - it has touched our lives in some way. It touched my family's life when my aunt had gestational diabetes when she was young, and it followed her into her adult years. Unfortunately, she did pass due to complications due to the illness. I commend our members opposite for bringing this forward, a bill that is raising awareness about the hardships that people living with diabetes face every day. I also have a mother-in-law who suffers from type 2 diabetes, and I know the challenges that she faces as well. It's a very important topic.

But as you know, our government has made commitments to better our health care system. We are making drastic changes, changes that will help all Nova Scotians. Those changes are including changes for children and adults who suffer from diabetes - type 1 diabetes or type 2 diabetes. Our party's support for those living with diabetes is long-standing. Our PC government established a diabetes care program back in 1991.

If the whole health care system is to be improved, then every effort within that endeavour must be carefully considered. It is through thorough studies that we can ensure that the actions we take will benefit the greatest number of people with effective and quality care. Regardless of the financial cost of investing in the continuous glucose monitors, people with diabetes and their loved ones deserve the best care, so all variables do need to be considered. That's why our government is committed to reviewing the continuous glucose monitors to see if they fit into the Nova Scotia Pharmacare programs, and we will remain committed to looking for solutions.

[Page 4990]

We are also engaging in many stakeholders. This is a very committed force that we have where input from Nova Scotians and various organizations are committed to design decision-making so that these solutions will be well tailored and meet the needs of those with type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes.

Our Department of Health and Wellness and the office of health promotion have also been working very closely with many interested groups on long-term plans to prevent chronic disease. This is a long-term strategy that the Diabetes Care Program will play a key role in implementing over the coming years. We are engaging with stakeholders, and I'm happy to say that work is already under way toward finding ways to meet the needs to assist those who are living with type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes.

Although our government only formed a year and a half ago, we have made significant developments on a number of health care fronts. This includes a number of resources and programs that Nova Scotians living with type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes can benefit from. Since the beginning, we've been focused on attracting and retaining more health care staff who will regularly provide primary care to those living with the condition. Our investment in technology frees them up so that they can do what they do best and that's providing the best care for our patients.

The avenues through which the care is provided are many, to ensure that individual needs can be met based on each individual circumstance. This includes 36 diabetes centres in Nova Scotia that offer a variety of services for those who are living with type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes. All of these locations can and will benefit from our investments into recruiting and health care staff. The additional staff will also go a long way toward supporting our online programs, as well our virtual care which includes support and information for those living with type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes.

Another such avenue that I'm proud to say is in the process of being extended is the patient supports in our pharmacies. Today, we have 12 pharmacies across the province that have begun offering an expanded range of primary care services as part of a pilot program - and I'm happy to report that the overall success of these to date has been exceptional, a project that will be expanded throughout the season.

The pharmacists at these special pharmacy clinics, these locations, do have a greater scope and it allows them to set aside time where they can help patients with common illnesses, chronic diseases such as diabetes. They are authorized to prescribe medications and give advice for the conditions that the patients are facing.

[4:15 p.m.]

As well, familiar, regular blood glucose test strips will continue to be benefits for Nova Scotia's Pharmacare beneficiaries. Under our Pharmacare programs, we provide and spend $10.5 million on drugs and diabetic supplies used to manage diabetes.

[Page 4991]

It is estimated that the overall mortality rate among Canadians living with diabetes is as high as the all-cause mortality rate for those living without. Health care is as preventive as it is reactive. Our government isn't only working with the reactive side. As a forward-thinking government, we are also focused on the preventive side by encouraging and improving access to physically active lifestyles for Nova Scotians, and it includes a number of grants and funds aimed at providing the province's recreational facilities, rinks, and trails.

Our local diabetic clinic often frequents the walking trails at our facility. It helps them talk about their disease, their illness, provide support, and get an active lifestyle to help manage their symptoms of diabetes. Twenty-two sites and organizations from across the province benefit in these fundings, making access more accessible, not only for exercise, but to explore the natural beauty of our province.

We're also being proactive in providing healthier lifestyles for Nova Scotians in preventive measures. We're setting up recreational facility development grants that are going to provide 19 municipalities and community groups to work towards improving facilities, so that public participation in sport and physical activity is more readily available for those who are combating type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes.

There are many new ways to support Nova Scotians living with type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes, and all of these avenues are being explored. We are engaging with stakeholders. We're having the important conversations, and the work has already begun in the department. In the meantime, our government is continuing to improve access to care that can help them now - through increased access to primary care, by continuing and expanding existing services, and by encouraging preventive health care.

Our government is committed to supporting the bettering of our health care system for Nova Scotians living with type 1 and type 2 diabetes. These struggles are very real. All of us see it in our offices every day. We are supporting, working and talking - and trying to find solutions moving forward.

We don't require an amendment to this legislation. We are already working collectively - collecting data, working with experts, stakeholders, those living with type 1 and type 2 diabetes - to ensure that they have a better quality of life, and work towards the future.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cumberland North.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : I'd like to stand in support of this bill. I would also like to suggest that we could even go further. Diabetes Canada have asked for Nova Scotia to have an actual framework for diabetes management. We are one of the only provinces without a proper framework for our diabetic care.

[Page 4992]

Some of the comments shared by the last speaker - I want to just share a couple of comments in response. I'll table this document. Diabetes Canada, in their data around Nova Scotia diabetics, share that 33 per cent of all Nova Scotians are actually diabetic - whether it's type 1, type 2, or pre-diabetic. So when we're looking at investment of health care dollars, it's a great place to invest. You're actually impacting a third of the population of Nova Scotia. That's very significant.

One of the other figures that was shared by the previous speaker was $10.5 million is currently being spent through Pharmacare in supplies for diabetes. If you do the research, you'll actually find that by using the insulin pumps, you actually reduce your need for both medications, as well as diabetic supplies, whether it's the test strips or others. That's well known within the industry. That's one of the reasons that Diabetes Canada and Diabetes Nova Scotia have actually asked government to cover the fees and make it more affordable for purchasing these insulin pumps. That's also in the document that I'll table.

When you listen to the experts, and read the data and research that back up this bill, you'll find that it's actually a really good investment of government tax dollars in providing insulin pumps and monitoring for people with diabetes. It's a good use of taxpayers' dollars.

I know that being part of the previous team that's currently in government, I know that they are very supportive of chronic disease management. I remember hearing the Premier speak when he was in Opposition about the INSPIRED COPD Outreach Program. He spoke about how great it is to see effective and responsible management of chronic disease for illnesses such as COPD - chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Diabetes would be no different.

We know that when diabetes is managed effectively, it prevents more serious illness, prevents blindness. We know that diabetes leads to earlier death, earlier mortality. So effective management of diabetes is very important to all Nova Scotians. As I mentioned, a third of Nova Scotians are impacted by diabetes.

For these reasons, I support this bill. I would love to see the government not only support and pass this piece of legislation, but also go further and actually implement a true diabetic framework for the people here in Nova Scotia.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Bedford South.

BRAEDON CLARK « » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to speak quickly here on Bill No. 257 - a couple of points I wanted to make.

[Page 4993]

First of all, I want to thank two constituents of mine, Gloria Furdas and her daughter, Olivia. Olivia is a diabetic and Gloria approached me during the campaign in 2021. I know many other members of the House participated in the Fingerprick Challenge as well. It was really eye-opening for me, just to kind of get a real practical sense of what life can be like for a diabetic on a day-to-day basis. I want to thank Olivia and Gloria for being advocates on this issue.

I think there is at least an agreement among all parties that this is something we should do. It's just a matter of when - and I think as soon as possible, of course.

I also wanted to thank my riding association that brought this concept forward through the policy process last year within our party, because it's a big issue for us as well. In my time as a staff person in government departments, I always found that government does a very good job of assessing how much things cost, but sometimes does a poor job of assessing how much money they can save by investing. I think this is a good example of that.

As the Leader of the Opposition noted earlier, we're talking about at least $115 million in cost on a yearly basis from diabetic episodes - health care treatment that diabetics have to access as a result of not being able to manage their diabetes as well as they would with a CGM.

We have some of the stats here. At least 21,000 hospital visits as a result of diabetes and in some cases, of course, that can lead to very severe outcomes: death, amputations, blindness, strokes, heart attacks. Diabetes is a significant contributing factor to all of those very serious outcomes. As the member for Yarmouth said, preventive health care is something that we really need to focus on as a province and do a much better job on.

Practically speaking, these CGMs are life-changing for people. I mentioned Olivia. She's young, she's under the age of 10, so she's not monitoring her blood sugars on a minute-by-minute basis. She's out on the playground, she's playing with her friends after school. But for Gloria, having that CGM - having that app on her phone that can alert her as soon as her daughter's blood sugars start to drop - is really a life-changing thing.

Especially if you think of kids who aren't obviously monitoring this as closely as adults would, and seniors who might live alone. When you're asleep - we heard a story earlier - is often the most dangerous time for a diabetic. When you're asleep, your blood sugars can drop very quickly. Of course, you don't know the difference unless you have a monitor that is attached to you on a day-by-day basis.

The other thing I'll mention is that the current status for a lot of diabetics doesn't work. I've seen statistics that Diabetes Canada recommends at least eight manual tests per day - finger pricks. Most diabetics do somewhere between three and four because, obviously, it's painful, time consuming, and inconvenient - all of those reasons. It's not their fault. That's just the nature of the situation. So their outcome and monitoring is not as active as it probably should be because of the cost, pain, and inconvenience associated with standard treatments.

[Page 4994]

I know that the Minister of Health and Wellness in the past has talked about studying this issue, looking into it. I'll take her at her word on that, for sure, but I do think there is a tremendous amount of data out there already. Many members today have cited the data. Other provinces - most recently P.E.I., just in our backyard here - have instituted public coverage for these devices. So there is real-world data happening - not just theoretical or academic work. There is real data. New Brunswick announced it yesterday. There you go, hot off the press.

I think there is an obvious acknowledgement that this needs to be done here in Nova Scotia. I think this is not an issue that should be partisan in any way, shape, or form. The government obviously is willing to spend huge amounts of money on health care. I think if you are going to spend $300 million on bonuses, $100 million in a day for health facilities at universities - the upfront cost of providing life-changing equipment for over 100,000 people in Nova Scotia would be a fraction of that in many cases. The savings over time and the lives changed over time, would make it a very wise, very smart, and long-overdue investment in this province for hundreds of thousands of people and their families.

For those reasons, I support this bill, of course. I'll take my seat.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Eastern Shore.

KENT SMITH « » : Mr. Speaker, I rise today to offer a few moments of discussion on Bill No. 257. I commend the member opposite for bringing this important legislation to the floor.

I will begin by saying that our commitment to health care in this province is long-standing, especially our commitment to diabetes care. It goes back to the 1991 PC government that brought in the diabetes care program. That should show that as a government that brought in that legislation in 1991, we're behind the people who have diabetes, and doing what we can to support them.

For consideration of this type of legislation, there are a multitude of things that need to be examined and thought of - especially when we are considering something that has such a high cost associated with it. We need to make sure that we do the due diligence and examine all the pros and cons that go along with this before we make such an investment.

The first thing we are going to do is a comprehensive review. That is an ongoing effort that we are doing right now. We're going to make sure that these programs and this investment - see if it can fit into the Nova Scotia Pharmacare Program. We're also going to seek input. We're going to be actively engaging stakeholders and other impacted Nova Scotians to discuss their thoughts and desires for this type of investment. We want to ensure that the solutions we put in place are suitable for those who are living with type 1 and type 2 diabetes.

[Page 4995]

The other important factor to consider when we're talking about health care in this province is the fact that proactive health care is such an important aspect of our health care system. Of course, the members here would have seen the investments we've made to improving an active lifestyle, and encouraging folks to be more physically active - which, obviously, is good for everyone's health.

The engagement work is well under way. We need to ensure that we are meeting the needs of those folks who live with diabetes daily.

This is not a concern that we are taking lightly, and it is not a concern that we are ignoring. We have made many significant developments and investments, including multiple resources that Nova Scotians living with diabetes can benefit from immediately.

The access that folks with diabetes have to care is wide. There are many and multiple avenues for them to receive the care that they need. Naming a few, I'll start with the fact that there are 36 diabetes clinics in the province offering a variety of services for those suffering from type 1 and type 2 diabetes.

Another avenue that we've helped to expand the scope of services and provide more access to care is through the pharmacy program. Everyone here would have seen and read about and heard the announcement at the end of January about expanding the scope of services for pharmacists in this province. Of course, that is a pilot project that was welcomed in the communities where it was delivered, and we're looking forward to expanding that project across the province later this season. Of course, under this pilot project, not only can pharmacists have a wider scope but, particularly to this initiative and this issue, they will be able to provide prescriptions for common illnesses and chronic illnesses, including diabetes.

As I referenced earlier, the Pharmacare Program, let's not forget about that. Allow me to provide a few additional details. Those benefiting from the Nova Scotia Pharmacare Program are already receiving blood glucose tests strips as part of the benefits that they receive. As a few colleagues have mentioned here today, as well, our government already invests $10.5 million into the Pharmacare Program specifically to help with drugs and supplies for those with diabetes.

[4:30 p.m.]

[Page 4996]

The important aspect that I would like to highlight here in my time with you today is expanding on the preventive measures we can take. Preventive health care is a hugely important aspect of our overall health care system, and the investments that we have made to encourage and promote an active lifestyle in this province are monumental. We want Nova Scotians to be more physically active. We want them to get out there, getting their steps in.

Some examples of the encouragement we have provided would be the expanding of the recreational trails fund: I'll speak specifically about the Eastern Shore, as I'm sure you have all been and enjoyed some of the natural resources and active lifestyle initiatives that we have on the shore. In the beautiful community of Musquodoboit Harbour, they have the Musquodoboit Trailways Association, 14 kilometres' worth of trail that you can take advantage of.

The Shore Active Transportation Association has received a letter of authority from the previous administration to look after seven kilometres in the Gaetz Brook Greenway. They have done a wonderful job making that a pedestrian-friendly place to go out and get your steps in.

In Sheet Harbour, my hometown, I'm proud to say that there's a new initiative, a new group as a subcommittee of the Sheet Harbour Chamber, that is working through the grant program and applications to try to get funding for a brand new trail in the Sheet Harbour area.

Of course, in the Lawrencetown and Seaforth area, we have the Blueberry Run, managed by the Marine Riders Trail Association, which I believe is just being rejuvenated. There's the trail aspect of the outdoor recreation that we're discussing today as preventive health care.

Another aspect that's important is the Rink Revitalization Fund. I was really lucky this winter to have my seven-year-old stepson, who started playing hockey and spent a lot of time in the rink in Musquodoboit Harbour, the rink in Dartmouth, in Cole Harbour. What that did was brought my whole family together to see skating as something that was more than just watching Beckett play hockey. It was something that we were able to take advantage of as a family as well.

We can also talk about the Recreational Facility Development Grant program: 19 different municipalities received funding to enhance or repair or bring back to life outdoor facilities to encourage public participation in sports. As I'm known to do, bringing it back to the Eastern Shore, there's a group in Porters Lake that has a derelict tennis court. For the last two years, they have been fundraising and advocating to help turn the defunct tennis court into a pickleball court. I've never played pickleball, but I hear it's very popular and another way to maintain a physically active lifestyle.

[Page 4997]

When we're talking about natural resources and talking about the Eastern Shore and talking about an active lifestyle and how that can help with preventive health care, I certainly can't let the beaches along the Eastern Shore go unspoken about. Starting in the Sheet Harbour end, we have Taylor Head Beach, Clam Harbour Beach, the famous Martinique Beach, and certainly the beach in Nova Scotia that gets the most attention, Lawrencetown Beach. I guarantee you this will not be the last time you hear me talk about the beautiful natural resources that we have on the Eastern Shore, and I challenge any member to look me up when you are heading out to the Eastern Shore and I will offer free tours of Clam Harbour Beach to the first five members who take advantage of this offer. I already have a taker - two takers.

Mr. Speaker, we are actively exploring ways to encourage solutions and to help Nova Scotians experiencing type 1 and type 2 diabetes. I hope that the summary of things that we have done is helpful for the members here today to help understand that we are not turning our back on this; we are not ignoring this important issue. We have already begun work with an extensive stakeholder engagement. Our government continues to improve access to care and patient needs right now. We are doing that by increasing access to primary care. We are doing that by expanding on the existing services that are already offered for those experiencing type 1 and type 2 diabetes. We are doing that by encouraging preventive health measures to hopefully keep some Nova Scotians from developing type 1 diabetes.

Mr. Speaker, our government is hyper-focused on health care and finding solutions to fix the mess that we were left with. We are going to continue to do that for all Nova Scotians. We are going to continue to do that for the Nova Scotians who are experiencing type 1 and type 2 diabetes.

With those words, I am happy to have stood and summarized some of the issues surrounding Bill No. 257. Some that we support, some that we believe they are bringing a good initiative to the floor, and we will continue doing everything we can to help those Nova Scotians with type 1 and type 2 diabetes and looking for new solutions to make sure that their lives are led healthy and peacefully.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Minister of Health and Wellness.

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : I would just like to take the opportunity to speak for a few minutes on the bill. Certainly, I want to assure members of the House that we do continue to look at continuous glucose monitoring in terms of how and if we can fund it as a province. Health and Wellness is currently reviewing the continuous and flash glucose monitoring systems to see if they can be added to the publicly insured benefit, and we are also following the same process that we use with other benefits as well.

We look at the programs that we already have in place such as Seniors' Pharmacare and Family Pharmacare and what we want to ensure as we review this is that we understand the impacts for people across all incomes. We need to understand how many of our Nova Scotians are, in fact, privately insured so that we have a program that certainly will benefit as many Nova Scotians as possible. These are relatively new devices and I take the member opposite's point that there is emerging and real-world evidence in regards to continuous glucose monitoring, and certainly one of the recommendations and requirements of CHDTA, which is the Canada Health and Drug Technology Agency, is that we do have evidence of a clinical benefit to the health care system as well as the individuals because it is a significant investment, as you know.

[Page 4998]

As my colleagues have mentioned, blood glucose test strips continue to be available as benefits to Nova Scotia Pharmacare beneficiaries, but certainly for those of us who are brave enough to do the finger prick challenge, we know that it is quite painful and certainly we are committed to continuing the review.

I would just like to talk a little bit about some of the consultation that will be so important for us moving forward. Certainly we immediately think about the individuals who live with diabetes; not just those living with type 1 diabetes but we also think about those living with type 2 diabetes as well. We need to understand the emerging evidence around how these devices could potentially help them control their illness. Certainly, we know that continuous glucose monitoring would be an adjunct for many who are using insulin pumps on a day-to-day basis for those living with type 1 who are controlling their diabetes.

Stakeholder consultation will be important. We will need to speak with families and people living with diabetes, and certainly since I've come to this role I've had the opportunity to speak with a number of advocates across the province, and I'm very grateful for their time.

I also would like to say I think it's very important that as we move forward, we do think about how we engage our diabetic education centres. Our diabetic education centres are really the chronic disease management experts in diabetes care, and they work with people across a life span. Our diabetic education centres are staffed by endocrinologists, nurses, and dietitians, and certainly they see where the publicly funded programs are essential but also potentially where they fall short.

The work that happens in these clinics and the relationships that they build are really life-changing and life-saving for a number of people living with diabetes, particularly our children and youth. These are trusted, respected, and very skilled adults who build relationships to support children and their families, and for those Nova Scotians who are older, living with type 2 diabetes. I just want to acknowledge and thank our diabetic education centres across the province.

I also think it's important that our schools have an opportunity to weigh in. Prior to being elected and working in long-term care, I had the privilege of working as a school health nurse liaison with the Strait Regional Centre for Education, and I worked with children who lived with chronic disease and life-threatening illness. I had the opportunity to work with children who were in school managing chronic disease - and certainly diabetes was one of the conditions that they managed - and working with the diabetic education centre and their parents and guardians to understand how best to support children. Of course, now we have the Tas, who help support children in schools with diabetes - and the teachers - because it is a learning enabler, making sure that these school health plans are in place. I'd like to thank the youth and parents over the years that I've worked with. I've learned a lot and have a deep respect for the day-to-day attention that's required and stress that's involved in managing diabetes as well.

[Page 4999]

Through that role, I also had the opportunity to attend a couple of children's camps. I was able to go to Camp Brigadoon, and they have two excellent camps that support children and youth and their families living with diabetes. Camp Lion Maxwell is specifically for children living with diabetes and they get to go on their own, and I have great respect for the nurses who work those camps on a regular basis. There's a number of different camps, and I've always hoped that maybe I'd have an opportunity to volunteer there.

I also want to talk about a camp called You're in Charge. I had the opportunity there to spend a weekend with children and their families to look at chronic disease management opportunities, building skills and assets, and advocacy skills in children who are living with chronic disease. It was very helpful for children across all disease processes to be together looking at the mental health aspect.

The other part of my role in that job was to work with Health Promoting Schools, which I think is another key aspect, not only in supporting children living with type 1 diabetes, but certainly in the prevention of type 2 diabetes. Health Promoting Schools came into effect under, I believe, Premier John Hamm, when there was Health Promotion and Protection. He was quite a visionary in terms of his public health approach as a physician, and we're very grateful. Health Promoting Schools is a wonderful program.

I was the school food nutrition policy enforcer during that time, which made me probably one of the least popular people hanging out at the schools. I took away all of the math manipulatives that involved Skittles, and other yummy treats. The only time I saw people move quicker when I walked into the school was the cafeteria ladies when the inspectors came into long-term care for the licensing requirements. Same speed.

[4:45 p.m.]

So I was considered the school food nutrition policy police, and really looked at enforcing how we fundraise, making sure that we don't build brand loyalty, et cetera, with our children, to promote healthy food, and working with teachers and really trying to build capacity in the teachers around their lesson plans; understanding how important their approach is when working with kids with chronic disease; and making sure that if they had a youth or child with diabetes in their class, they understood that nutrition was nutrition and that it was really important that if a child had food aversions, or if they felt there was something in lunches that maybe was not appropriate for a child living with chronic disease, that we worked with them to provide options in the classroom.

[Page 5000]

Physical activity also is really important and provided a number of grants for equipment and inclusion, also during that role. Fresh, frozen, or canned, that's what we say about fruits and vegetables. Fresh, frozen, or canned. I certainly had the opportunity as well - because kids living with life-threatening and chronic disease want to have a regular life and don't want their parents to go with them everywhere - I had the opportunity to go on a lot of field trips and support these children and youth throughout the Strait Regional Centre for Education. I did manage to get to some overnight sleepovers in gyms across the Strait region, which was always interesting in terms of how we managed sleep arrangements.

So these devices are on our radar. That's what I'd really like to talk to folks. We know that they're an important part of disease management. I will say as well, having a family member who really does live with and struggle with type 2 diabetes, I wonder about how this option may support him in understanding how his dietary intake affects his well-being.

Again, I want to take a moment to shout out to the diabetic education centres, because they really have become a lifeline for him in terms of understanding his medications and understanding where he could improve his lifestyle in order to support his wellness.

I want to talk a little bit about what I've heard from parents over the years. Supporting them is essential. We want them to know that we do hear them. I certainly know that the member for Pictou East - West? East? East and West, actually - have been strong advocates and have good relationships with advocates in their area. Prior to being elected, I had the opportunity to speak with both of those members in regard to health care initiatives, and this was on their radar.

So again, just really going back to the opportunity to do consultation, when I was a nurse at St. Francis Xavier University, for a couple of years we had a number of youth who were actually transitioning to university and for the first time were managing their diabetes on their own. As a result of that, we were able to set up a diabetes education centre that would be available to students on campus living with diabetes, one evening a month. It was very interesting to watch those individuals. Continuous glucose monitoring was not a device that was available to them at the time, but they were actually learning to live with their insulin pumps. That was the emerging technology at the time, Mr. Speaker.

It was very interesting to understand from a young adult's perspective how they wanted to use these devices. Some folks would prefer injections and didn't want to be attached to something all the time, whereas others appreciated the freedom that it gave them. It's really essential that as we move forward and we look at supports for people living with diabetes, we do it with an age- and developmentally appropriate approach.

[Page 5001]

I have worked with families who have been diagnosed with diabetes as early as 18 months of age, and I have worked with folks who have been diagnosed in their early- to mid-teenage years, and certainly, such a big change for folks learning to live as a family with this illness.

We also have to consider those who live with type 2 diabetes and what the impact of these glucose monitors could be for their health and well-being. Again, that evidence is emerging, and we look to our colleagues across the country to understand what their real-life and emerging evidence shows them.

We also look to see across the jurisdictions what the uptake is and how communities have responded, and health outcomes as a result of that, looking at admission rates in hospitals, to the member opposite's earlier point, looking at the impact on chronic disease. We do appreciate that there is some early evidence coming that will help inform our decision around part of the decision to fund.

I just think, as we continue down this path, there is emerging technology that's coming forward, not just for diabetes but for chronic diseases in general. Typically our formularies and our publicly funded programs have looked predominantly at medications, but certainly through the work that we see with places like the Innovation Hub, and looking at research in situ, and certainly with the recent funding announcement at St. Francis Xavier University for a rural innovation site, what are the opportunities that we have to look at emerging technology, our digital platform, how that interacts with our technology to support better outcomes and making sure that people have access to the care they need.

Also looking at synchronous and asynchronous support, are we able to have real-time alerts and alarms to primary care providers or specialty folks so that people can reach out and get information directly? Certainly, the work that's happening around Virtual Hallway is very important work in connecting primary care providers to specialists to support them in terms of . . . (Interruption)

I was just talking about Virtual Hallway and what an important tool that this is to connect our primary care providers and our rural specialists with tertiary and quaternary support, and certainly One Person One Record will be really instrumental in supporting people living with chronic disease and making sure that they don't have to tell their story again and again as they move through the health care system.

Again, I just want to assure members of the House this is important to us, and that we continue to look at a variety of different funding models understanding the emerging technology. We want to make sure that . . .

[Page 5002]

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. The minister got a bit more extra time, I think, at that point.

The honourable member for Eastern Passage. I just want to let the member know that there is about 12 seconds or so. Fifty seconds.

HON. BARBARA ADAMS « » : As the members of the House would know, my father was one of the people who started work with the Nova Scotia Health Services and Insurance Commission. I want to take this opportunity to talk about the fact that many Nova Scotians are living with diabetes, including my partner, and yesterday at the announcement for the Dartmouth General Hospital, I had an opportunity to thank the Dartmouth General for saving my partner's life. He was there with a diabetic issue that nearly cost him his life. I think this government understands how very important dealing with chronic illness is in the province of Nova Scotia, and I want to commend the Minister of Health and Wellness and our government for all the initiatives they're taking so far.

THE SPEAKER « » : The time for debate on Bill No. 257 has expired.

The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition on an introduction.

HON. ZACH CHURCHILL « » : Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring the attention of the House to the West Gallery, where we are joined by two distinguished guests from the beautiful Province of British Columbia. We are joined today by Armaan Dhillon, president of Kwantlen Student Association; as well as Navpreet Singh, the associate president of the Kwantlen Student Association. They are, of course, members of the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, an organization that I'm an alumnus of, actually - former national director of that organization and a member. They are here for a national annual general meeting which is being hosted by Saint Mary's University Students' Association, which is also an alma mater of mine. Very proud to hear that, very happy that these gentlemen have come in to check out the proceedings in the House today. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : We welcome all visitors to the House and hope you enjoy your stay.

The honourable House Leader for the Official Opposition.

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 261.

Bill No. 261 - Revenue Act (amended).

[Page 5003]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Northside-Westmount.

FRED TILLEY « » : I'm happy to rise today to speak on behalf of this bill, Mr. Speaker. Members of the Legislature and members of the public may recall that in the last session I introduced a bill to cut the motive fuel tax by 50 per cent in Nova Scotia. That bill was not brought forward to third reading, and it was not voted on. It died on the floor of this Legislature. But I feel that this issue is of such importance to the people of Nova Scotia that we have decided to reintroduce this bill to suspend the motive fuel tax in its entirety, in perpetuity or longer . . . (Interruption). Temporarily.

The people of Nova Scotia are struggling on a daily basis. I seem like a broken record here, but the people of Nova Scotia are like a broken record. They're trying so hard to make ends meet. They're trying so hard to put food on their table, feed their children, buy their medication, and heat their homes. We will hear this government say, well, it's the Liberal Party's fault. The Liberal Party and the NDP, they didn't stand up against this carbon tax. We all know that this carbon tax did not have to come to Nova Scotia. The current government allowed it to come to Nova Scotia without putting a viable alternative together. It's called negotiation.

You will also hear this government say we gave $1,000. We gave a $1,000 Heating Assistance Rebate Program rebate. You know what? That was a very valuable thing for Nova Scotians. But what Nova Scotians don't realize is we debated a bill earlier today to end bracket creep in Nova Scotia. It died on the floor just like I suspect the motive fuel tax bill will die on the floor. We're handing people money with the right hand only to reach around into their back pocket - I'm not sure if these are props - with the other hand to pull that money out. We're pulling that money out through a hidden tax in Nova Scotia - it's the bracket creep.

The two bills that were put on the floor of this Legislature are very broad bills that will help all Nova Scotians. We know that we have been doing some work to protect vulnerable Nova Scotians. I can say in my office it has been extremely busy, helping our seniors, helping those on lower incomes, to access these funds that have been made available to them.

There are many other people who are struggling to make ends meet who we are not helping in Nova Scotia. We need to do a better job as legislators, and we need to do a better job as Nova Scotians, to help everyone. Cutting the motive fuel tax - when you think of the small businesses that are struggling right now, it's going to help them. Small delivery couriers, Skip the Dishes, taxis - all these organizations are struggling. Their gas levels are at an all-time high, and they can't afford to shut down, but they also can't afford to keep going.

[5:00 p.m.]

[Page 5004]

We need to do a better job, and temporarily, while we are in this period of inflation - which is not going away on its own. As a matter of fact, Nova Scotia is consistently higher than the national average in inflation in Canada.

We talked about income taxes. We're hitting people from all angles. We already know that it costs on average, for a $50,000 income, $1,000 more to live in Nova Scotia than it does in New Brunswick, just on income taxes.

Now we have an opportunity to put a little bit of money back in the pockets of Nova Scotians by changing those tax brackets and changing some of the tax credits and indexing those as well. What an opportunity that is. We have an opportunity - and I can't wait to see the budget and the final number on how much money we've made over our estimate on motive fuel tax in this province. I'm betting it's in the tens of millions of dollars in motive fuel tax.

We've done enough to Nova Scotians to make things more challenging. There's a beautiful opportunity here for this government to help everybody, and by helping everybody, it's going to be good for them. I don't understand where they don't see that. Nova Scotians will appreciate a break at the pumps. At least once a week, when Nova Scotians head to the gas station, they are pumping up their car, and if they see a significant drop weekly, that's a tangible benefit that they will feel on a weekly basis in Nova Scotia.

In the last session we heard, oh, we're not allowed to do that, the feds say we can't do that. Well, that was proven wrong last Fall, and that yes, it's a provincial tax, so you can do that, you should do that, and you must do that. You must help Nova Scotians because they deserve it. They have been paying tax on tax on tax for far too long. Let's give them a temporary break in the gas tax until this level of inflation bottoms out and we get back to where we used to be.

Mr. Speaker, I don't understand the rationale. We know that everyday expenses like food and heating oil are all exponentially rising, yet we refuse to make a move that will alleviate some of that pain.

I am going to end in a moment, because I'm not sure what else I can say. I'm not sure what else I can do, but know that the people of Nova Scotia are watching. The people of Nova Scotia are concerned. The people of Nova Scotia are feeling this pinch daily. Let's acknowledge them. Let's see Nova Scotians, let's go where they are, and let's give them a benefit for all - one benefit for all Nova Scotians that will help them to get through these tough times.

With that Mr. Speaker, I'll take my seat.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier.

KENDRA COOMBES « » : I am glad to rise and speak on this bill. We know that Nova Scotians are struggling with the rising costs of living and need support through these challenging times. This type of relief has been implemented, as previously said by my colleague, in other provinces. It is one tool that can be used to offer some cost savings. However, we think that there are other more impactful ways to offer relief that government can also explore.

[Page 5005]

Let's talk about this. The amount that households would save under this bill is directly tied to their gasoline consumption. Households without a vehicle, for example, would not benefit from this. There are many policy avenues that can be explored that would support long-term affordability and poverty reduction in Nova Scotia, things like a higher minimum wage, permanent rent control, raising and indexing social assistance rates. We also think, Mr. Speaker, that short-term measures should ensure that people in need don't fall through the cracks.

In this case, for people who don't own or drive a vehicle, this could look like direct income-based rebates, banning power disconnections, or a serious look into energy poverty and electricity affordability. In our area of Cape Breton, we are very reliant, though, on our cars, as the member would know, due to a lack of public transit, as is the case for a lot of rural Nova Scotia, Mr. Speaker, which I am sure you can attest to.

For someone who fills their vehicle once a week, the savings from this measure would be welcomed. But it may not be as transformative as it needs to be or as we would all like to see: $20 or $30 extra a month is helpful, but it is not a solution to the cost of living crisis that we are in. It is a stopgap measure. That is, suspending the provincial motive fuel tax, as I said, is one part of the solution. It's a solution potentially, but it's not the full solution. It's a stopgap.

Cape Breton is home to some of the highest child poverty rates in the province, and we have some of the highest rates nationwide. It's absolutely shameful. We should be ashamed of ourselves. Rather than a one-off relief measure that allows families in need to fall through the cracks, we need government to take on a robust poverty elimination strategy that makes sure no one is left behind.

The cost of living crisis is severe, Mr. Speaker. It is very impactful to all. As I said before, this is one stopgap measure, but it is not the solution. It is not the thing that is going to eliminate the poverty that we are seeing and the cost of living crisis that everyone is finding themselves in.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Minister of Finance and Treasury Board.

HON. ALLAN MACMASTER « » : I never had a chance to say goodbye to my little ones when I left this week, when I came to the city. I just want to acknowledge them: Ivy and Willow and Lochlann. Lucie, of course, is at home with them today. I hope they're doing well.

[Page 5006]

Mr. Speaker, why would the provincial government remove the fuel tax, which is used to fix our roads, if only to make way for the Liberal carbon tax that will make gasoline, diesel, and home heating oil more expensive starting in July? That would be like when the Harper government gave people a break on the GST, dropping it from 7 per cent to 5 per cent, and then the provincial NDP in this province promptly raised the provincial tax from 8 per cent to 10 per cent, taking away the intended tax relief.

What is this Liberal carbon tax going to cost, starting in July? About 14 cents more per litre at the gas pump. The Liberals are not stopping there. They plan to raise that amount to a whopping 37 cents per litre come 2030 and even more if you're heating your home with heating oil.

Why are they doing this at a time when so many are struggling with the cost of living? We, your provincial government, tried. We fought against the carbon tax. Thankfully, across the country, inflation came down for the month of February across the country, but there was less of a drop in this province. Why? Because so many Nova Scotians heat with home heating oil. Our government is spending millions to help people get off oil, to give them an option. A carbon tax does not give them an option, it gives them a pain. That is the Liberal goal. They want people to pay more for gas, diesel, for home heating oil so that people stop buying it.

That may work if there are options, but in most Nova Scotia communities, we don't have subway systems. We don't have trains. We don't have bus routes, and it's not always practical to hop on your bicycle to go to work when the round trip may be two hours in the Wintertime, no less. It's not practical for a province with a power utility with a history in a province that was built on coal, which at one time was an advantage before people came to realize the emissions that are created by coal and how society better understood that they're not good for our environment. I want to point out that this week, we announced $165 million in credits to save Nova Scotians on their power bill from what essentially would have been a further Liberal carbon tax.

The power utility will find options to move away from fossil fuels. Muskrat Falls, for instance, is an option. A carbon tax is a pain; it's not an option. The member who rose to introduce the bill raised this point: Are provincial governments allowed to lower fuel taxes at this time of the Liberal carbon tax? It depends on which Liberal Minister of Environment and Climate Change you ask. The current one says, yes they can, but not the previous one from less than a year ago.

You will recall this very point was one I made on November 10^th here in this Legislature, Mr. Speaker. For that I was taken to task. Let's have a look. I have three documents, and I'll just table them here. Let's have a look. Three CBC articles. The first one - this was back in March of last year: "Ottawa warns provinces to not follow N.B's example of offsetting the cost of carbon tax." "Cutting gas tax defeats purpose of carbon tax, minister says. Minister of Environment and Climate Change Jonathan Wilkinson says it would be problematic if other provinces took the New Brunswick path to offsetting the cost of the carbon tax." This was made just months before my comment.

[Page 5007]

What do the courts say? Well, in the very same article, "the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that Ottawa can force provinces to meet its pricing standard." "Wilkinson told CBC's Power and Politics that such a move 'would defeat the whole purpose. It would defeat the price signal that exists which is to incent people to adopt more efficient behaviour.'

"Asked why Ottawa allowed New Brunswick to do it last year and won't let Saskatchewan do it now, Wilkinson said that is 'something that we are looking to change and to fix on a go-forward basis.'"

Further, a spokesperson for the federal government said that the government plans to "'strengthen' its requirements 'post-2022.'"

I made my comment in the last Fall sitting that we didn't feel we were able to reduce provincial fuel tax well before post-2022.

That is just the first article. That was back in March 2021.

Fast forward from March to July, just four months later, another CBC article: "Ottawa not happy with Higgs government's carbon-tax strategy - Feds look to block other provinces from cutting gas tax to lessen carbon tax impact.

"Ottawa is taking steps to ensure other provinces don't follow New Brunswick's lead by reducing gas taxes to lesson the impact of the carbon tax. The federal government is bringing in tougher carbon pricing rules to prevent provincial governments from imitating New Brunswick's 2020 gas-tax cut, which softened the carbon tax impact on consumers."

Jonathan Wilkinson, the federal Minister of Environment and Climate Change, says, "the tax cut goes against the logic of carbon pricing. 'We are certainly of the view that instant rebates are not in accordance with what the whole purpose of the price of pollution is,' Wilkinson said in an interview. 'If you put a price on pollution [at the pump], and then you take it off immediately, you don't have any effect on emissions.'"

Mr. Speaker, this is pretty clear. "Wilkinson sent a draft of the new rules to provincial environment ministers, saying they must not 'weaken the price signal' that carbon taxes send to reduce fossil fuel consumption."

I made my comment on November 10^th. The message I had been hearing was just what I have tabled here - very public information, and very clear information. The Liberal federal government did not want provinces lowering fuel taxes to reduce the impact of their carbon tax. The Supreme Court of Canada ruled that they can force provinces to apply the carbon tax without interfering in the higher price for fuel that the carbon tax creates, and post-2022, the Liberals were going to strengthen the requirements to make sure that provinces couldn't do that. Fast forward 12 days later for my comments.

[Page 5008]

Another CBC article: "Stranger than fiction? N.B. must pretend 2020 gas tax cut wasn't about carbon." You can't make this stuff up. It's not made up. This was all in the news. It's public information.

"[As] part of its new carbon-tax agreement with Ottawa . . . Under the terms of the deal that lets the province keep a 2020 cut to its gas tax, provincial officials have committed to pretend that something they bragged about less than three years ago never actually happened.

"In documents released to reporters, the province agrees to never acknowledge the gas tax cut was put in place to offset the impact of the carbon tax, and is being funded with carbon tax revenue."

"Now New Brunswick is not supposed to ever mention those facts again - in return for Ottawa letting the technically offside tax cut remain in place."

So why did the federal Liberals change their position? It allowed some Nova Scotia Liberal MPs to make comments that allowed people to suggest that I wasn't telling the truth. Maybe that was one of their goals. I know some of the members in here made the same comments.

But it wasn't me who changed the federal Liberal carbon tax decision. It was the Liberals themselves. What other reason would cause the Liberals to change their position? The invasion of Ukraine, and the inflation that appeared? What an awful time to be putting their carbon tax on Canadians.

Perhaps it's for one other reason. Could it be because it doesn't work? We have over 20 years of evidence at the Department of Finance and Treasury Board to prove that people do not stop driving in this province when fuel prices rise, because they have to drive in this province. They have to drive to work. They have to drive to get their groceries. Just about everywhere they need to go, they need to drive.

There is no windfall from fuel taxes because it is a flat tax, and it does not change when fuel prices rise. There is also no windfall in HST because people spending more on HST on fuel - which is a tax that does rise with the price of fuel rising - they do not have that money to spend on other things because they are not spending more on HST on other things because they've already spent it on their fuel. These are numbers that can be backed up with financial statistics in all of our forecast updates.

[Page 5009]

If the goal of this bill that stands before us here in this Legislature is to help people with the cost of living, the first thing I would say is to say no to the carbon tax. Say no to the Liberal carbon tax. The second thing I would say is that government should focus on targeted supports to those most in need. That's what the Governor of the Bank of Canada says to avoid feeding the inflation problem. That is what the federal Minister of Finance says as well - and that is just what your provincial government is doing.

I will pick two examples. This year, to help Nova Scotians with the cost of living - a $1,000 Seniors Care Grant. That is a new initiative of our government. It started out as $500. It was increased this past year up to $1,000 to recognize the cost of living that seniors are facing. Another measure - another $1,000 benefit to Nova Scotians with household incomes below $85,000. They can get $1,000 to help them heat their homes. We did that before the heating season began.

We hope that Nova Scotians are taking advantage of those benefits, and we hope that it does help them with the cost of living.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.

BRENDAN MAGUIRE « » : Mr. Speaker, I'm going to leave this Chamber tonight and I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket. The reason I'm going to buy a lottery ticket is because I sat here half an hour ago and predicted the future. I predicted exactly what the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board would say when he stood up. He checked every box - blame Ukraine, blame inflation, blame municipalities, blame the Trudeau government, blame the Liberals, blame the previous government.

The truth is that you are now in power. Almost a year ago today, the minister was on the Todd Veinotte Show and said in this upcoming budget they would see movement on a better paycheque guarantee. The minister said that Nova Scotians had a better paycheque guarantee coming within a year. Want to bet your house on it? I will guarantee you that doesn't happen.

He talked about what has been said in this House. What has been said in this House by that side of the aisle is that low income, minimum wage jobs are not real jobs - to the point where their Leader had to apologize for saying that. We all remember that.

The Minister of Finance and Treasury Board at one point said that if you can't afford it, you can get another job. There are so many jobs out there that you can get another job. This is what has been said, and this is the understanding of finances coming from over on that side.

I am not a financial wizard - not even close. I don't even take care of my own household. (Interruption) Yes, my wife does - she's the smart one in the family, let's be honest here. I can tell you that even I am puzzled when I hear the stuff that's coming from that side of the aisle. Let me break this down into the simplest of terms. What they're saying is that Nova Scotians cannot be trusted to spend their own money - we will spend it for them.

[Page 5010]

They have had a massive influx of money from bracket creep, which the minister did not stand up and talk on or defend his position - even though he said in the media that under no circumstances were they going to do that. There's your Better Pay Cheque Guarantee. There's your promise kept. That's where every working-class, low-income, and middle-class Nova Scotian gets relief. Right there.

The fact that the minister is saying that they can't decrease taxes on the price of fuel is absolutely not true. The minister and the federal government have come out and said that they can do that. They can do it. In fact, the excuses that were used in the past were roads and this, and we've got to spend it on health care. We've heard all that stuff. They didn't say that they couldn't do it in the past. They said, we're not going to do it because we want more money.

But here's the thing. There's nothing left to give. What do I have to do to get that through to everyone in this Chamber? There's nothing left to give. We are all part of the privileged few who make really good money, who have benefits, and who have a pension.

When you're taking your truck, your big vehicle or SUV or whatever you're driving to the gas station, most people in this room aren't concerned. They're not concerned about the extra cost at the pumps, but the average Nova Scotian is. For the minister to stand here today and blame the federal government shows that they have zero empathy on the subject. Instead of finding solutions, they've decided to point fingers.

We know. We warned them. We did their homework for them. We passed them a cap and trade system that was the envy of all Nova Scotia. We know for a fact that they just washed their hands of it and allowed the timelines to expire so they could use it for political purposes. We know that.

The federal government came to them on several occasions practically begging them for solutions and ideas - to put forward a plan. They refused to do it. Why would a government that's supposedly for the people refuse to put forward a plan that would save Nova Scotians money? Because they wanted to point at the big, bad federal government and reap the benefits of the extra money so they could spend to their agenda. That's exactly what happened. That's what's consistently happening in this House.

[5:30 p.m.]

No government is perfect. I'll be the first one to stand here and say that. In the last session, we had a government on that side stand there. We had the Premier of Nova Scotia - the foremost word in the province supposedly - say we are protecting taxpayers from increases, that we will not see massive increases. We stood on this side of this House and said, you're going to get a fuel adjustment cost. Now, to his credit, the Minister of Natural Resources and Renewables on several occasions said yes, but the Premier of Nova Scotia stood in this Chamber and denied it. Then he went out into the media and denied it. He was using spin.

[Page 5011]

This is an easy thing we give you. Two bills to help everyday Nova Scotians. This government is throwing money around like - I don't know, I've never seen it before in my life. But they will not give it to the people whose money they're spending. This is not your money. Repeat after me: This is not your money. You are the lucky few. You are part of the 1 per cent in this province. The people of Nova Scotia deserve better. They don't deserve a Minister of Finance and Treasury Board who stands there, points fingers at everyone else and refuses to take accountability.

There are two bills on this floor - one being bracket creep and one being fuel adjustment costs. Do the right thing and stand up for the people who elected you.

MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The time for debate on the bill has expired. I just wanted to lightly tell the member for Halifax Atlantic that he was promoting gambling. He said it twice. Going out to buy a lottery ticket, and you can bet your house on it. (Laughter) I'm listening.

MR. SPEAKER: I recognize the House Leader of the Official Opposition.

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That concludes Opposition Business for the day. I'll now pass it over to the Government House Leader for business tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. KIM MASLAND » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That concludes government business for the day. I move the House do now rise to meet again on Thursday, March 23^rd, between the hours of 1:00 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. Following the Budget Address and Daily Routine, government business will include Bills for Second Reading, Bill Nos. 256, 262, 263, 264 and 269.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that the House do rise to meet again on Thursday, March 23^rd, between the hours of 1:00 p.m. and 6:00 p.m.

All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.

The motion is carried.

We stand adjourned until 1:00 p.m. on March 23^rd.

[Page 5012]

We have now reached the moment of interruption. The adjournment notice was submitted by the member for Dartmouth North. It reads:

Whereas there are over 200 paramedic vacancies in the system and the number of paramedics who have left their profession has risen steadily over the last several years, including 133 last year alone and dozens who are off work due to injury; and

Whereas the starting wage for paramedics in Nova Scotia is substantially lower than other provinces and the working conditions of paramedics in this province continues to deteriorate with emergency room crowding and closures, physical and psychological injuries, paramedic shortages, and deteriorating access to health care across the system; and

Whereas paramedics save lives every day and are as integral to the health system as nurses and doctors;

Therefore be it resolved that this government must immediately provide support that will have the effect of retaining paramedics in our emergency health system.

ADJOURNMENT

MOTION UNDER RULE 5(5)

The honourable leader of the New Democratic Party.

GOV'T (N.S.): PARAMEDICS LEAVING PROFESSION - SUPPORT REQUIRED

CLAUDIA CHENDER « » : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am honoured to speak to this issue here on the floor of the Legislature. Over the last several months, I've had many conversations with paramedics across the province, and it has become impressed upon me that paramedics as a whole are at a breaking point. Our entire emergency medical system, as we have been discussing, and will continue to discuss, is in crisis. And the paramedics on the front lines are sadly, the best example of this.

Paramedics deserve to be acknowledged for the work they do - to be thanked, to be appreciated, and to be appropriately remunerated. And the government can do all of this. They can create safer workspaces, and they can give paramedics a permanent wage increase that will keep them in the province.

We are talking a lot about retention, and I want to tell the members of this Chamber, contrary to some assertions to the contrary, I am an optimist. I am a positive person. I am in this job because I want to make a difference in the lives of Nova Scotians. And I believe that everyone in this Chamber wants to do the same, and that is why issues like this are so important, because they fly under the radar.

[Page 5013]

We were told recently by a paramedic who was 15 years in that every paramedic she knows has an exit strategy, that there is not a single paramedic she has ever spoken to in the last several years who doesn't have a Plan B when it all blows up. We know that paramedics are leaving this province, or they are leaving the profession.

According to one Cape Breton paramedic, and I apologize, I don't have my tabling documents, but I will get them to you by the end of this speech, things are significantly worse for first responders than they were just a few years ago. This paramedic asked to remain anonymous but told us:

"It's harder and harder to do the job. I recently worked a day when there were only two rigs for the whole Island, and that meant my unit had to respond to a call two hours away" -

two ambulances for all of Cape Breton Island.

"Sometimes it means people just have to wait, and it can take hours. Situations like this are causing moral distress for paramedics because we can't help people the way we want to in the moment. I've seen lots of people leave the profession or leave the province and I can't blame them when you feel so unsupported, and you feel like you're filling the gaps of services that are falling apart."

I want to take a minute and just acknowledge this idea of moral distress. We hear it from paramedics. We have heard it in committee, in the Legislature. We have heard it in conversation. Imagine. Put yourself in the position: You get a call, and that call is a cardiac arrest or some other acute medical distress, and you know that it's going to take you an hour and a half to get there, and you know what that means. You know what you're going to find when you get there - imagine - and you have no control. All you can do is respond to that call and know what you're going to see when you get there. It's a terrible situation for people to be in, and it's why people are leaving.

Samantha Hamilton, another paramedic, told us:

"Paramedics are front-line health professionals who make life-and-death decisions in roadside ditches and in hospital hallways for the people they serve day in and day out. The paramedics who have remained in this mayhem have been hanging by a thread. No breaks, hours of forced overtime on top of 12-hour shifts, in a job well known for its challenges. Many are contemplating whether to stay or take other opportunities that other paramedics have left for. This government is not considering its actions and has ZERO respect for paramedics or our union. We are offered platitudes when it is convenient, but the failure of this government to step up to our issues speaks louder. It is time that we are taken seriously and time that our service is recognized, valued and appreciated."

[Page 5014]

Women in particular have reached out to us about working so much overtime that they don't see their families and can still barely afford to feed them, feeling like they need to be on stress leave but not being able to afford to. For those who are off, horror stories of fighting with Emergency Medical Care Inc. to retain basic benefits while trying to get back to work are awful. Let me remind everyone in this Chamber that EMCI is a private company. Our paramedics are contracted to a private company, and that private company treats them, by their admission, terribly. The CEO of that company has been all over the news lately advocating for an expansion of private health care across this country, and that should tell us everything we need to know about the priorities of EMCI. I'll give you a hint: it's not Nova Scotians, and it's not our paramedics. It's their bottom line.

Paramedics are the canary in the coal mine of our emergency system. The ERs in Nova Scotia - as we have discussed many times - are chronically overcrowded. Long waits and unscheduled closures are the norm. Lack of access to primary care and long wait-lists for long-term care are exacerbating factors. We all know this, but we need to also remember that all of this impacts the severity of calls to Emergency Health Services and the constraints on paramedics once they arrive. The average response time in the Central Zone for paramedics in 2016-17 was around seven or eight minutes. In 2022, it was closer to 26 or 27, and it can be much, much higher. There were more Code Criticals, when there are no available ambulances in a zone in Nova Scotia, in the first three months of 2022 than in all of 2021.

I remember a time not that long ago when we were talking about Code Critical in this Chamber, when it was a big deal when there was a Code Critical. Now when we talk to paramedics, they tell us, we don't even bother to talk about it because it's Code Critical all the time. That is the status quo right now. The response times right now by paramedics are far beyond safe, they are far beyond desirable, and they are beyond the targets in our contract with EMCI. The current contract, which was signed by the Liberal government, is worth $165 million a year to EMCI, and they have had to pay zero dollars in penalties despite consistently not meeting these targets. We are seriously concerned about the performance of EMCI and the government's ability to manage this contract. Why aren't they paying penalties? If we are going to contract a private company, presumably we think they can do it better. They are failing. Why aren't we holding them to account?

A recent FOIPOP reveals that multiple recommendations from the Fitch Report that looked at emergency services remain incomplete, including considering an annual independent performance review of contractor expenses and performance. There's a free tip for the government. Please do an independent review of EMCI. They are failing at their job. In 2022 there were more than 200 paramedics off work due to injury or illness. That is 20 per cent of the workforce. In the fourth quarter of 2022 there were 255 vacancies and Freedom of Information records also note that EMCI is now required to post those vacancies externally, as interest from candidates in full-time positions is decreasing. We don't have to wonder why that is. One hundred and thirty-three paramedics resigned in 2022; 133 in one year. That is the largest number in six years.

[Page 5015]

We cannot overstate the impact of this on our health system writ large. All of us are going to be in a situation where we have to call an ambulance and we'd better be ready when that ambulance doesn't show up if this government isn't going to do something about it. We know that Allison Holthoff's family decided not to call an ambulance. They decided to drive to the ER because they were concerned about how long it would take for an ambulance to get to them. We need to change that. This government says they want to change the narrative, so change the narrative. Do what it takes to retain these paramedics and make this a desirable profession again.

Paramedics are underpaid, poorly treated, and are leaving the profession in droves. The wages are too low and the working conditions are bad. This government needs to act now, sit down with paramedics and not wait until the Fall when the contract comes up. This government hands out money to various people like it is candy on Hallowe'en. Why not paramedics? Without the paramedics, the rest of our system collapses. Do what it takes to make sure that we can keep every single paramedic possible and retain and hire more.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE « » : Thank you, Madam Chair and welcome to the Chair. I am just going to start with an article posted March 11, 2023. I'm going to reference this a few times and then I will table it. We have 900 paramedics, brave paramedics, working across Nova Scotia. There are currently 186 paramedics off on leave and the member for Dartmouth South just said that number was 200. We know that 133 paramedics last year quit to go on to something else, an all-time high - and guess what? It is going to be higher this year. Speaking to the paramedics union, they are expecting it to be between 150 and 180 paramedics leaving the job to go find something else to do, and why is that?

Well, first of all, they are underpaid, and it reminds me of a little of the continuing care assistants. They have a difficult job, underpaid, and this government rushed in, and rightfully so, gave the CCAs a raise outside of the collective bargaining agreement. Our paramedics are done. They are done. They're quitting and leaving for jobs at a faster pace than ever in history. I have a close friend who is now an emergency room doctor, whom I think about eight years ago was a paramedic, and he said being an emergency room doctor is less stressful than being a paramedic - less stressful.

[Page 5016]

[5:45 p.m.]

I also spoke to a paramedic and we talked about - because a few Summers ago I actually had to call paramedics myself for a personal reason - and I got speaking to them and I have stayed in contact with a lot of people I know who are paramedics. One of the things they told me - which is absolutely shocking - is if you take a heart attack in Nova Scotia, drive yourself to the hospital or get someone to drive you because the paramedics will not be able to show up most of the time.

They told me that there's an 85 per cent chance that you're not going to make it waiting for the paramedics. This is what a paramedic told me, knowing perfectly well that if you're having a heart attack you shouldn't drive. The other suggestion was that everybody should have a defibrillator in their house because, at this point, they're not going to be there in time.

We know that large sections of this province at any given second are without paramedics. There are solutions. I'm not going to stand here and do what everyone always does. We saw it in the last couple of bills where people are pointing fingers and they're blaming each other.

I think this government has shown a willingness to pay people what they feel they are worth. I think that we have a Minister of Health and Wellness who really understands this. I think that with a background in health, the Minister of Health and Wellness understands the importance of a paramedics in our health care system.

If you talk to a paramedic - and I'll use an example, Dave Wilson, who used to be an MLA here - if you talk to Dave, the stories that he would tell you and the things that paramedics go through day-to-day. Chuck Porter was another one. I don't know how they live with it. I don't know if I could live with it, personally. So, they are mentally and physically strong. And I forgot about the member across being a paramedic.

I think I actually have a lot of love and respect for paramedics because they're not doing it to get rich. They do it because there's something ingrained in them that a lot of people don't have. I truly believe that because I think the things that they show up to and the situations they are put in are sometimes horrific.

We know that paramedics are being assaulted. We know that they've been attacked. We know that they've been sexually assaulted. We know that when there are car accidents, they are the first on the scene. These are things that I don't think any human being should go through, unfortunately. Fortunately for us as a society, we have people like that who will go through it. So, why not pay them what they deserve when they are some of the lowest-paid professionals in the country?

[Page 5017]

I've gotten a lot of emails and a lot of messages from individuals across the province about the government's recent announcement on the $10,000, $20,000 bonuses for nurses. Great. I applaud them for that. But paramedics have approached us, and approached me personally and sent me messages asking why they are only worth $5,000? Why don't I get $10,000? Why does a nurse or LPN - why am I only getting $5,000?

I think that those are things that we need to explain to our paramedics - why there's a value associated lower than other professions. Quite possibly - and I'm not talking from experience, but I probably have about a dozen friends who are paramedics or have been paramedics at some point in their lives - it's quite possibly one of the most stressful jobs a human being could ever do.

I'm assuming that someone on that side is going to stand up and talk. I know that they're going to thank the paramedics for all the hard work. I think that they're going to tell them how grateful we are for the work that they're doing.

The picture on this article is pretty telling. It's a car accident. It's got a paramedic with his arm leaning against the van, exhausted. Exhausted. When you feel unappreciated by the government, then you go to a workplace where, I've been hearing for quite some time is actually hostile. It's not the best place to work. People don't feel appreciated there. The hours are long. It's stressful. It doesn't make for a profession that people are clamouring to do.

We have to change the narrative around it, and part of that is listening to the paramedics. Again, I'll say I don't care what party you are, we need to listen to the paramedics. This government is showing a willingness to negotiate and to give outside of a collective bargaining agreement. Maybe there's something in this budget. I think they said wait and see on a few issues. Maybe there's something in this budget for paramedics, but if you're a paramedic right now and you see CCAs getting big raises, you see nurses getting big money, you see everybody around you getting big money, and there's nothing for you, I think it's pretty demoralizing.

When you're saying that we're understaffed, when over a two-year period, 300 paramedics - this is not made up, this is from the union - 300 paramedics will be leaving the profession, not due to retirement but for other reasons, in a profession that has 900 individuals employed. Potentially a third of your employees are leaving. That says something. I don't want to assume, but I'm assuming the minister and individuals on that side have talked to the union and they've been in contract negotiation and they're having these conversations, but I think there was a good point made by the member for Dartmouth South that if they're not meeting standards, the company is not being penalized, so why would they meet standards?

[Page 5018]

If there's no penalty, if there's no stick and it's all carrot, the history will show you that they're not going to do it, so I think we need to have this conversation outside of collective bargaining, and before in the past, we could say this had to fall under collective bargaining. We no longer have to say that because precedent has been set. I would say make it more appealing, pay for tuition, give them more money, give them raises, and I would ask maybe that you top their bonus up from $5,000 to $10,000 because they certainly deserve it.

THE SPEAKER « » : I ask that the member for Halifax Atlantic table that document.

The honourable Minister of Health and Wellness.

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : The very first thing I want to say is that I want to reassure Nova Scotians in this province that if they call 911, they absolutely will get care immediately from a dispatcher, immediately from a physician who's in a communications team. He or she is there 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We are staffed with registered nurses and critical care paramedics, and it is imperative that if you need emergency services in this province, you call 911 to get the care that you require.

I do want to talk a little bit about paramedics. I've worked with paramedics for 31 years. They are an integral part of our health care system. They are, in fact, some of the most skilled paramedics in Nova Scotia that we have - in North America, in fact. They are very well trained. This system that we have now is most certainly under incredible strain. It was built in a different time, and we are continuing to transform, as we are with other parts of the health care system.

I do want to talk a little bit about some of the work that's happened over a number of months to support paramedics. In regard to injuries, we've invested $3.5 million in equipment to support power lifters and stretchers in order to support our paramedics and making sure that they are not prone to musculoskeletal injuries. It's very essential. In terms of psychological injuries, we also need to remember - and I've said it for my entire career - many of us work in a hospital setting but we don't see what doesn't come in. I think it's really essential that we create more supports for paramedics who work in the field. We have peer support programs and we have crisis intervention, and it is essential that we continue to protect not only the bodies of our paramedics but we also protect their minds.

I do want to talk a little bit about - recently we also heard from paramedics. We started our government on a tour around the province and we heard from them a number of things. We heard about the power stretchers and lifters. We also heard that their benefits they were paying that were a burden on them in terms of their paycheque. So in December, Madam Speaker, we covered the cost of benefits for paramedics, which is actually a saving to them of $2,500 per year. We were really grateful to be able to do that before Christmas.

We've started now - we've hired 120 transport operators, which has allowed us to essentially separate the transfer system from our emergency response system. That has been incredibly important in terms of supporting paramedics.

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We recently did a community tour of 20 communities. The CEO of the Nova Scotia Health Authority, Deputy Lagassé, and I - and of course there were paramedics in every crowd. We also had an opportunity to drop by and stop and talk to paramedics at bases, kind of unannounced, wherever we could, and really being able to see first-hand what those transport drivers offer, not only for patients but also for our paramedics. In fact, we heard again and again that the opportunity to be a clinical transport driver has, in fact, caused others to look at the possibility and hope that they too would become a paramedic.

Over the course of the pandemic, courses were at 50 per cent capacity as a result of their COVID restrictions. As a result, there were reduced class sizes. Recently we expanded the number of classes throughout the province, adding an additional two sites. There is a course being offered in Yarmouth and there will be one offered in Pictou County, as well as Sydney and Halifax. There will be an $11,500 tuition rebate to all paramedic students in order to support their education moving forward.

Recognizing that we need to work directly with paramedics to understand their work environment, one of the things we initiated was a temporary licence for graduating paramedics, putting them immediately on the trucks in order to get work experience right away. Prior to that there was a lag of up to six months where paramedics would languish, waiting for their licensing. So we've allowed now that there's an opportunity for paramedics to be hired and go immediately to the trucks to provide care.

We have refitted a number of ambulances based on the feedback from paramedics, understanding what it is they need in terms of equipment but also space in the back of these ambulances in order to support care. It is really essential that as we move forward, paramedics have an opportunity - that is their workspace, so it's really essential that we continue to hear from them directly.

The addition of a second air ambulance will handle routine transfers from Halifax and Yarmouth, which will allow ground ambulances to stay in their communities and improve the response times. The other thing it does is give paramedics another opportunity of a place to work. Historically, there have been a number of different areas where they could work, but routine transfers will allow PCPs to be able to work in a LifeFlight or in an air ambulance team, which is very appealing to a number of people. We've had good feedback about that.

I would like to talk about the implementation of physicians 24/7. The paramedics would talk about "the doc in the box." That physician is there immediately to support our paramedics on the ground. In fact, they actually can support in the triage, so paramedics can do some treat and release. In fact, now, through working with this physician, paramedics can actually look at a different pathway to support people who are in their homes. As a result of that collaboration between physicians and paramedics, four out of 10 people are now currently not required to be transferred to the emergency room for care. They create different pathways for these individuals or put them in a virtual waiting room where the physician speaks directly to patients. So the options in terms of being treated in community are vaster.

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[6:00 p.m.]

We also look at the clinical work environment for paramedics. There is a committee. The Department of Health and Wellness, EMCI, the college, and the union sit together on a regular basis and look at work/life issues for paramedics. They also look at, as an example, shift overruns, which are improving. We still have challenges in some of our rural communities but overall those shift overruns, which are very important to the paramedics, are improving in several areas across the province.

EMCI, in appreciation that they need to strengthen their relationship and support paramedics in the field, are currently undertaking town halls throughout this province, which we're very grateful for. Certainly, EMCI and EHS - our Department of Health and Wellness supervisor travelled with us in those 20 community sessions in order to speak directly to paramedics and to communities about this support. We have spare units now so that paramedics can work in a single paramedic unit to go out and see people, and assess them, and respond to their calls, and then get backup if they require transfer. It's really important. What we've heard from paramedics is they have an opportunity to experience a number of health care environments. Primary care paramedics who want to bridge and become advanced care paramedics actually have a tuition support of $12,000 and an extended period of time to complete their studies in order for them not to have any unpaid leave during their clinical period.

I do want to assure members in the House, and I do want to assure paramedics that we do value them. We know that their contract is up in October, and we have signalled as a government that we would like to get back to the table. We don't want to wait until the end of that contract before negotiations begin. They're important. We know there are a number of issues around remuneration. I think it's important that we sit at that table and we hear from the bargaining unit directly about the things that the paramedics want.

The other thing that I would just like to take a moment to acknowledge as well in addition to our paramedics, in terms of our first responders, I do want to take just a brief moment to acknowledge our medical first responders as well in communities throughout this province. These folks are volunteer. They work with their firefighters, they support the paramedics, they support Nova Scotians in the field, and we've begun early conversations with them - Strait Area Mutual Aid, with my colleagues from the Strait Area, as well as the Fire Service Association of Nova Scotia - to really understand how we can support our medical first responders in regard to training, in terms of supporting them in the field, around medical comms, all types of different things.

I just want to assure the members, and I want to assure Nova Scotians that we are very supportive of the emergency health system, and we are working very hard to make sure that when they call 911, that they can depend on that system. I would encourage, again, please, if you are experiencing a medical emergency, do not hesitate to call 911.

THE SPEAKER « » : I wish to thank all members who participated in the adjournment debate this evening.

The House stands adjourned until 1:00 p.m. tomorrow.

[The House rose at 6:02 p.m.]

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