HALIFAX, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 30, 2022

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON SUPPLY

7:35 P.M.

CHAIR

Lisa Lachance

THE CHAIR: Order, please. The Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply will now come to order. It is now 7:35 p.m.

The subcommittee is meeting to consider the Estimates for the Department of Advanced Education as outlined in Resolution E1.

Resolution E1 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $676,617,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Advanced Education, pursuant to the Estimate.

I will now invite the Minister of Advanced Education to make opening comments of up to an hour and, if they wish, to introduce their staff to the committee.

The honourable Minister of Advanced Education.
 

HON. BRIAN WONG: I’d like to begin by acknowledging that we are in Mi'kma'ki, the traditional territory of the Mi’kmaw people.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to present to you the first Budget Estimates for the newly created Department of Advanced Education. It is my hope that as I walk you through our investment, programs, priorities, and plan for the 2022-23 year that you’ll be inspired by the work, collaboration, innovation, and research under way to continue to support a strong, sustainable, and vibrant post-secondary system that meets the needs of our students and our labour market both now and into the future.

Before I continue, there are a few members of the team here with me today and I’d like to introduce them now. To my right is Nancy MacLellan who is the Deputy Minister of Advanced Education. To my left is Wanda Fletcher who is the Executive Director of Financial Advisory Services with the Department of Finance and Treasury Board. Also with me today, sitting to my back left, is the rest of my support team. We have Cheryl To, Greg Ells, Louise Van Wart, Ken Byron, and Tanya Lively. Several members of the Department of Advanced Education senior leadership team are also available to assist us, and I will just speak with them in the back.

This is my first budget since becoming a minister. I’m looking forward to the experience and looking forward to sharing with you our path forward. Over the next half-hour or so, I’ll highlight the work under way to fulfill the goals of the department over the next year with the focus on how we intend to achieve key government mandate priorities, specifically around enhancing health care, health care training, improving governance to enhance the student experience, supporting inclusion, diversity, accessibility across the system, and inspiring continued economic growth across Nova Scotia.

Being an educator for almost 30 years before taking on this important role, I feel very fortunate to have the privilege to lead this department where education, training, and students are at the centre of everything we do. Last year the Budget Estimates for advanced education were a few paragraphs in a larger department’s mandate. Thankfully that has changed.

Our domestic and international students, and Nova Scotia’s post-secondary institutions, are a critical piece of the solution when it comes to meeting our vast and ambitious economic, population, and health care workforce goals. By creating a stand-alone Department of Advanced Education, my government sends a clear message that our work to foster a high-quality, inclusive, accountable, and collaborative post-secondary sector is a priority.

It shows that this government understands that in order to reach our goals, we need our post-secondary system, our training and education arm, and our students - the future workforce and the heartbeat of this province - at the centre of our government’s priorities and work.

Advanced education deserves a dedicated team and a strong focus. I am excited to share the progress we’ve made on our mandate, priorities, and the historical work we’ve undertaken to support students and enhance the post-secondary sector. I will showcase our progress over the last several months, and our future plans.

Speaking of mandate and the vision forward, I’d like to share with you the vision, mission, and mandate of our new department. As a newly created department, it’s important to have a defined focus for the students and the people we serve. All of our staff were invited to help us establish our vision and mission based on the priorities and mandate of our government. As a department, we envision a high-quality, collaborative, and inclusive post-secondary education system that is focused on helping all learners thrive.

Our mission is to facilitate a proactive and inclusive post-secondary system through which people learn, grow, and thrive. We work in collaboration. Our mandate is to facilitate a post-secondary education system where learners receive a high-quality education that meets their learning needs and allows them to thrive as members of vibrant communities and a successful province.

We ensure that post-secondary education is accessible to all learners by removing barriers, including financial; by ensuring the system is equitable, diverse, inclusive; and by advancing the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada’s Calls to Action for post-secondary education.

We work in collaboration and partnership to support research and innovation and ensure our post-secondary education system proactively addresses the changing needs of the economy and contributes to social and economic growth. Madam Chair, we know we need students and the institutions that train them now more than ever if we are going to meet the unprecedented labour . . . (Interruption)

THE CHAIR: Order. I would like to request that all members of the committee and presenters in this room, refer to me as Mx. Speaker.

BRIAN WONG: Thank you, Mx. Speaker. We know we need students and the institutions that train them now more than ever if we are going to meet the unprecedented labour market demand in health care professions and keep the commitment we made to all Nova Scotians to fix health care.

In the last six months alone, since becoming minister, I’ve seen our post-secondary institutions heed the call and demonstrate flexibility and collaboration to create more seats, more innovative training options, and more partnerships to ensure we have a healthy workforce to meet the needs of our growing and aging population, both today and tomorrow.

I will elaborate on the details of these investments and initiatives shortly. I will say that having visited all of the universities, most of the Nova Scotia Community Colleges, to listen to the principals, the teachers, the professors, and the students, there’s a lot of work going on among them. It’s great to see our post-secondary system working together, where students who have graduated from universities are going to our NSCCs to get real life, real work experience and be able to further their studies and attain a career that wasn’t even defined. It works the other way, where we have students from NSCC who will go to the university setting to further their education to get the career that they want as well.

[7:45 p.m.]

Right now, the post-secondary system is all hands on deck and working all together. Mx. Chair, I’m very proud of the partnerships we’ve created and the history we are making together to ensure our workforce, economy, and health care system is strong. I’ve seen our post-secondary students step up and pivot unimaginably during the pandemic to do what was needed to keep their training on track, so that they can enter our workforce and build their lives here in Nova Scotia, on time, with their degree or diploma in hand.

Students have been through so much over these last two years and I’m in awe. I’m in awe of the stories of strength, endurance, and passion that I’ve heard them tell me first-hand. As a matter of fact, as part of our student tours, we not only visited students in classrooms in person, but we also had several online engagements with students. That’s in addition to the regular meetings that we would have with student leadership groups.

I’ve had the opportunity to hear a lot of these stories in many ways since becoming minister. My department does meet regularly with student groups. There are two government student round tables, one for university students and the other for NSCC students, with representation from Students Nova Scotia, the Canadian Federation of Students, and individual student union-elected leaders from each campus.

In fact, we just met with university students last week where we, as always, gained valuable insight into the student experience. I’m very proud of the strong collaborative and trusted relationships we’ve already built with student groups across the province. I also recently began a student tour where I had the chance to meet with students from the universities and NSCC campuses that gave us insight into things that we didn’t hear when we met with the student union groups.

With international students, we heard different things and new things than we heard from domestic students. We asked questions about our Student Assistance Program which gave us different information. We take all of the information and we do look into it for them. Some ask very specific questions, we take their information, and we get back to them directly. It’s one of the most pleasant things that I do in this position, is to really meet with students one-on-one.

This tour was in addition to the regular university tour and NSCC tours that we do. The feedback that we got from students, and faculty, and leadership is astounding. This is one of the advantages as a separate Advanced Education department, we can hyper-focus on what’s most important, and that’s our students.

All this to say, I’m excited. In fact, we should all be excited about the many students who have told me that they plan to stay in Nova Scotia after graduation and start their careers here. Maybe they’ll start their families here. Maybe their children will go to school here. Maybe they’ll all help us, as our government, achieve our goals of increasing the population.

These students are our future doctors, nurses, CCAs, paramedics, skilled trades professionals, teachers, and early childhood educators, to name a few. These students are our province’s future, and continued open dialogue with them is so important. I am absolutely committed to that.

I promise that I will get to the meat of our Budget Estimate soon, but I’d like to take a moment to share with you some of the details of the work I just mentioned, and some key milestones of Advanced Education’s broad and diverse mandate as highlighted in my mandate letter.

We are working to grow a progressive education model for continuing care assistant programs. Working with the Department of Seniors and Long-term Care, the department has introduced a progressive education work-and-learn model that includes tuition supports. The progressive education model allows CCAs to enter the workforce earlier than in a traditional CCA program. The aim is to increase the number of CCAs receiving training and working in the health care system.

We will work with the Department of Health and Wellness to assess the need for medical school residency seats. The department will work with the Department of Health and Wellness to better understand the need for medical residency seats that are targeted to areas of specialty and need across the province.

The department will continue to support the Provincial Sexual Violence Prevention Committee, which is a sexual violence prevention program on all post-secondary campuses. Its work is to prevent sexual violence on Nova Scotia university and college campuses through sharing expertise and resources.

Advanced Education will ensure that the universities and the NSCC update their sexual violence policies every three years and will work with the private career colleges on the development and implementation of sexual violence policies.

The department will continue to provide funding through the Sexual Violence Prevention grant to support initiatives that endorse and advance the 10 recommendations outlined in the Changing the culture of acceptance: Recommendations to address sexual violence on university campuses 2017 report.

We will review education pathways at the NSCC for apprentice students. Working with the NSCC and the Nova Scotia Apprenticeship Agency, review the NSCC’s prior learning program to identify gaps or areas of opportunities at it relates to students who are accredited apprentices acquiring credits toward programs at NSCC.

We will review the universities act, governance models, and structure. In 2022-23, the department will undertake a review of university legislation and bylaws focusing on governance, structure, accountability and reporting, the university board of governors and senate composition and powers. The review will be informed by a jurisdictional scan that looks at university governance and structure.

We’ve made significant progress on every item listed in my mandate, and even completed some priorities already. We are committed to the mandate work. We as a department and team are excited about the next chapter and our role in Nova Scotia’s success.

We will continue to work collaboratively to achieve the key deliverables outlined in my mandate letter and beyond, to set our province on the path to further success and growth.

Mx. Chair, without further ado, I would now like to turn my attention to the department’s budget for 2022-23, and the priorities supported by those investments.

The Department of Advanced Education’s Budget Estimate for the upcoming 2022-23 fiscal year is $676,617,000. This total budget includes 76 full-time equivalent positions that support our critical work. Six additional FTEs were transferred to the new department under this year’s budget for roles that work to enhance inclusion and diversity in the post-secondary sector, and positions that will support the policy and planning division, who, at the moment, are a team of two.

The budget also includes $452,484,000 in funding to our post-secondary sector, including operating grants to the province’s 10 universities. The operating grant increased by 1 per cent this year, totalling $3.7 million; increased as prescribed in the memorandum of understanding that the Province has in place until 2024 with the universities.

In this year’s overall budget Advanced Education received an $18.8 million increase which includes $3.2 million for the expansion of nursing seats at Cape Breton University, Dalhousie, Saint Francis Xavier, and the Nova Scotia Community College. This is a year-one investment to add an additional 200 nursing and practical nursing seats over four years. This is an exciting expansion for our future nursing workforce, and each nurse who graduates within the next five years will have a guaranteed job offer right here in Nova Scotia. There is $1.6 million for expansion of nursing seats at Cape Breton University and the Dalhousie Yarmouth Campus, including the diversity bonus. This investment supports a permanent increase of 62 entering-year seats at CBU and eight entering-year seats at the Dalhousie Yarmouth Campus.

The $3.7 million relates to the 1 per cent increase in operating grants to universities I just referenced, as outlined in the current memorandum of understanding; $1.6 million for a student assistance increase provision for uncollectable accounts; $2 million for Nova Scotia Community College wage adjustments; and $1.3 million for increased funding for the Nova Scotia University Student Bursary Program. Under this program every Nova Scotia resident who attends a Nova Scotia university receives the Nova Scotia University Student Bursary of $1,283 annually, based on full-time study. This is money that is taken directly off the student’s tuition invoice and doesn’t need to be repaid.

There is $1.3 million for long-standing funding agreements with the Nova Scotia Community College and Nova Scotia universities for disability service delivery, which are being renewed in 2022-2023. A funding increase is required due to the increase in enrolment of post-secondary students with disabilities, which is a huge success.

There is $1.2 million to support additional seats at the Dalhousie Medical School to help address the family physician shortage. This investment represents the fourth year of increased funding to the medical school to cover the cost of adding 16 additional entering year seats in 2019-2020. Adding more seats helps us recruit and retain doctors and support more Mi'kmaw, Indigenous, African Nova Scotians, and rural students, to become family physicians.

Four seats were added for the 2019-20 academic year targeting students from rural Nova Scotia, and 12 more seats were added for the 2020-21 school year. Those seats are greatly needed in our province.

There is $1.1 million in increased funding to support the Repayment Assistance Plan. The Repayment Assistance Plan is a debt management tool made available to borrowers who are having difficulty paying their student loan debt. This program makes it easier for student loan borrowers to manage their debt by paying back their student loan at a rate that they can reasonably afford based on their income and family size. This year alone the program helped over 11,000 students.

And there is $1 million to support the new Nova Scotia Community College’s residences to be built at Pictou, Ivany and Akerley campuses - I will speak more to this shortly.

Mx. Chair, our budget highlights some of the many exciting things going on at Advanced Education, but by no means does it tell the whole story. I’d now like to take some time to share some details on our core programs, and also highlight some significant investments made in the past six months since the department was created.

[8:00 p.m.]

For those of you who may not know, the Student Assistance Program provides needs-based financial assistance to eligible Nova Scotia residents who would be unable or unlikely to pursue post-secondary education otherwise due to insufficient resources. Proudly, Nova Scotia has one of the best Student Assistance Programs in the country. Nova Scotia student assistance has been significantly improved in the last 10 years: $30 million for Nova Scotia students in need. But we know, especially during the pandemic, that more is needed to be done.

Along with the pandemic causing difficulties like isolation and mental health challenges, a move to online learning, the inability for students to gather and learn in the ways that they were used to, it created challenges for students to secure part-time or summer employment, making it almost impossible for many to make or save money for their education.

We recognized that students needed help. About a month ago, my department made a $9.8 million investment in thousands of eligible Nova Scotian students in the greatest need with the issuance of a one-time, non-repayable, COVID-19 grant. This grant put $875 in the pockets of almost 11,000 students to help them with the rising cost of living during the pandemic. These funds came to them at a critical time when they were nearing the end, when they were entering exams, and has taken a lot of stress off so many students.

Students had very easy access to this money, as if they were eligible for a Nova Scotia student loan, the money was deposited directly into their accounts. Students have been very supportive of this grant and have said that it has helped reduce their anxiety and worry about how they would pay their rent or cover the cost of food, and they’ve been more able to focus on their studies. As demonstrated by this grant, our key focus in student assistance has been reducing student debt loads and making it more attractive for students to stay in Nova Scotia after graduation.

The Nova Scotia Loan Forgiveness Program has been one of our biggest success stories under that effort. Under the Loan Forgiveness Program, eligible Nova Scotia students can have the entire portion of their provincial student loan wiped out upon graduation if they complete their program within five years. Since its inception, loan forgiveness has saved over 10,000 students close to $76 million in student debt. Loan forgiveness is just one example of how we are enhancing programs to help students. Another is the increases made to the maximum provincial weekly assistance, which went from $150 to $200 per week of study in 2018.

Earlier I talked about the enhancements we made under the Repayment Assistance Plan totalling $1.1 million. I also talked about the enhancements to the Nova Scotia University Student Bursary totalling $1.3 million. With the supports I have mentioned, in total, Nova Scotia students can receive over $40,000 in non-repayable student assistance.

Improvements are made to our programs based on many factors. One major consideration is the student’s voice. I gave some examples earlier about how we hear from students. I’d like to share an example of how we are listening and acting.

This past Fall, the Premier met with a group of Dalhousie nursing students who told him that they were experiencing a unique funding gap in their student assistance eligibility that left them short of enough funding to cover the entire duration of their program. My department was able to act quickly to respond to student concerns by closing that gap and helping almost 250 nursing students access the funds they needed to make their program more accessible and affordable. The average amount that students received under this enhancement was about $3,300.

To meet unprecedented demand in our health care labour market, these nurses will also have a guaranteed job here in Nova Scotia upon graduation if they so choose, where they will have significant earning potential.

Another group of students that we heard from was continuing care assistants in training. Just recently, the government invested $57 million in the continuing care sector. Part of that investment will cover tuition costs for more than 2,000 full- or part-time CCA students under the Work and Learn program. We’ve already heard from some of the students who are benefiting from this investment, like Amy Lake, who said the program changed her life by giving her the opportunity to work in a supportive environment while she furthers her education, without financial concerns or stress for herself and her family.

As I mentioned earlier, and as you heard the finance minister say in yesterday’s Budget speech, we’ve partnered with Cape Breton University, St. Francis Xavier University, Dalhousie University, and the Nova Scotia Community College to add an additional 200 nursing and practical nursing seats. These additional students will begin their studies as early as this September, and with guaranteed jobs and high earning potential, they can begin their nursing careers here in Nova Scotia in just a few short years.

I’m very proud of our post-secondary institutions for working so collaboratively with us to make this training a reality on such short notice. We are very grateful for how much our domestic institutions have pivoted to respond. In order to meet the unprecedented demand in our health care system, we need to explore all training options and solutions, including those with world-renowned providers outside Nova Scotia.

Several weeks, ago, Advanced Education and the Department of Health and Wellness, along with the Nova Scotia Health Authority, signed a memorandum of understanding with the Toronto-based Michener Institute of Education at University Health Network. The Michener Institute is a world-renowned training provider that has an impressive track record. They specialize in applied health sciences education and provide training opportunities for critical positions within the health care system.

The MOU establishes a relationship with the institute to explore innovative opportunities to increase training capacity for positions that are in demand in the Nova Scotia health care system. We are working through the details of the MOU right now, and I hope to have more information to share with you soon.

All this is in addition to the domestic increase of medical lab technician training at NSCC, which I spoke about earlier. These are just some examples of how we are making multi-million-dollar investments in our students and the post-secondary sector to ensure we have the health care workforce of today and tomorrow. It’s a partnership and a strong example of collaboration.

In the last 10 days I’ve had the privilege to announce $130 million in research, innovation, and infrastructure investments for students, institutions, and Nova Scotians. Last week, we announced the addition of $25 million to the Research Opportunities Fund to invest in more research and innovation happening across Nova Scotia. The Research Opportunities Fund is managed by Research Nova Scotia. The additional funding will be used to support research opportunities in Nova Scotia linked to government priorities like economic growth, population growth, health innovation, and mental health.

We know that an investment in research is an investment in job creation, health care solutions, and business innovation. It puts Nova Scotia on the map as an ideas and solutions hub. This investment supports our researchers in creating new technologies, medicines, and strategies that will help solve Nova Scotia’s biggest challenges.

Some examples of projects that have recently been supported by the Research Opportunities Fund include tracking COVID-19 in waste water; an additional 20 projects that address vital COVID-19 questions, including the personal protective equipment supply chain, mental health, socio-economic impacts, vaccine development, and treatments.

Other projects included research for climate change adaptation and resilience; using, storing, and improving manufacturing for solar energy clean technology; and research for the sustainable bioeconomy, such as developing state-of-the-art advanced ceramics for health care, clean technology, and marine use.

Mx. Chair, ensuring that our post-secondary institutions remain competitive and have the space and infrastructure needed to welcome and train the future workforce is essential for our economic future.

On Monday, I had the pleasure to travel to Cape Breton University, where I announced $105 million to enhance infrastructure research and innovation at the province’s four rural universities. The $105 million investment represents one-time operating funding that includes three pieces: $65 million in deferred maintenance investments at St. Francis Xavier University, Acadia University, Université Sainte-Anne, and Cape Breton University; $35 million to support the construction of a Centre for Discovery and Innovation at Cape Breton University; and $5 million to execute planning for a strategic health initiative.

The deferred maintenance investments will allow rural universities to address a significant backlog of infrastructure upgrades and improvements. Examples include electrical upgrades, roof replacements, accessibility, and mechanical upgrades. St. Francis Xavier University will receive $23.4 million, Acadia University will receive $22 million, Cape Breton University will receive $14 million, and Université Sainte-Anne will receive $5.6 million for deferred maintenance. The funding was allocated to each institution based on the university’s share of the total operating funding provided to the four universities.

The Centre for Discovery and Innovation at CBU is a construction project that will house state-of-the-art research and instructional facilities. The centre will feature the latest in green technology and digital infrastructure and will elevate Cape Breton Island as a national destination for research, innovation, health sciences, and a global destination for students.

The planning for the strategic health initiative will explore training and health care enhancement options to recruit and retain health care workers in areas of the province outside of the urban core. The planning work to be undertaken by CBU will address health education opportunities, health research, as well as the infrastructure needed for health education and training at CBU.

These universities are the heart of our rural communities. These investments will not only improve buildings, they will also create innovative spaces that will house some of the best research facilities and most talented people who will create the solutions needed to address our local and global challenges.

[8:15 p.m.]

These infrastructure announcements are in addition to the investment in the new NSCC Marconi Campus currently under construction on the Sydney waterfront. It is quite a spectacle to see. With its modern design, open spaces, and state-of-the-art technology it will create a dynamic learning environment that will attract students from across the province and beyond.

The new campus is being built in accordance with accessibility and environmental standards and includes a 150-seat lecture hall and 25 daycare spots. The build is on schedule and on budget. The 2022-23 budget allocation for the Marconi Campus is $45 million.

In addition to all the other projects and investments I’ve mentioned, we are also focused on enhancing access to housing for post-secondary students. Students have told us that they need better access to safe, affordable, and accessible housing options. In response, we are constructing three new Nova Scotia Community College residences that include 350 new beds. These residences will be constructed at the Ivany, Akerley, and Pictou NSCC campuses. These residences represent an $89.9 million investment to provide more housing options to post-secondary students in various communities.

The Pictou residence will open in September 2023 and the Ivany and Akerley residences will open in September 2024. These new residences will inform a larger, collaborative, province-wide, long-term housing strategy. Part of that work includes a student housing element that aims to identify more solutions for student housing across Nova Scotia. Increasing student housing helps to alleviate the pressure on the overall market housing supply as students who move onto campus will free up housing options in the surrounding community for others in need. This significant investment in housing stock shows our government’s commitment to finding solutions to ensure all Nova Scotians have better access to housing options.

Inclusion, diversity, and accessibility are at the core of our work. Before I conclude I’d like to elaborate on that. We must foster a post-secondary system that is safe, accessible and represents the diversity of the province. I touched briefly on this earlier. I am proud to say that all universities have stand-alone sexual violence prevention policies in place and must be updated every three years. In 2022-23 the department will work with universities and the NSCC to further the implementation of sexual violence policies, as well as work with the private career colleges on the development and implementation of sexual violence policies.

The department will also implement new funding agreements to support students with disabilities at each publicly funded institution. Additionally, we will move forward with our strategic plan that supports the recruitment and retention of Mi'kmaw and Indigenous post-secondary students. This is important and exciting work that reflects our mandate to be culturally competent and have a post-secondary system and institutions where all students, regardless of race, ability, gender, age, or background, see themselves reflected in our policies.

Mx. Chair, I know I’ve given you lots to digest. I hope these remarks reflect the extreme pride I have in the work of my team and the mandate of my department. I do indeed work with an incredible group of professionals. Our work is not only important, it is necessary. I am now happy to take your questions.

THE CHAIR: Now it is practice that each caucus has up to an hour to ask questions of the minister. Only the minister may answer questions. To begin, I will now recognize MLA Jessome from the Official Opposition.

HON. BEN JESSOME: Welcome to Province House tout le monde. It’s good to see everybody back in here. Minister Wong, congratulations on the latest venture of your long career in supporting students in education. I know your heart is certainly in it, and I’ve appreciated your willingness to connect over the last six months as we adjust to our new roles.

To staff in the room, and who I know are watching attentively at home, thank you for your time and effort getting the minister up to speed, and serving Nova Scotians for the last number of years, certainly, and leading up to today. The budget is a difficult thing to prep for, I can expect. I only got one kick at the can as minister, but I was grateful for the support that I had at the Public Service Commission. I know that there were staff whom we deployed to serve your department and to serve departments throughout the public service. I know the hard work that goes on, so thank you very much.

I had asked to get involved in this critic role because the student leadership experience was something that was my launch pad into public representation, and I had the good fortune to be elected to a role as a student leader at Acadia. It was my first experience with respect to student advocacy, and a focus on the post-secondary sector, so it’s certainly something that I’m interested in. I come across it humbly. I’ve also got solid backup here, alongside the member for Northside-Westmount, who I know has a significant background in the community college and post-secondary worlds, so we’ll do our best to try to ask some good questions and hopefully get to dig a little deeper into the work that Minister Wong and his team at Advanced Education are getting into.

With that, I’d like to start in a similar place to the minister and focus a little bit on the mandate letter. The government continually highlights the milestones and the key elements of mandate letters across respective ministerial portfolios, so to kick things off, I did want to ask the minister to clarify if there was a timeline for completion of mandate-related tasks, and where that might be accessible for the public, or whether it’s an internal document perhaps.

BRIAN WONG: (Inaudible) We don’t have anything official that we would produce as far as what our plans are for within the mandate letter.

What we are continuing to work on - we have nine months to do the review of the memorandums of understanding and the agreements with the universities. I have recently been updated on that. We continue to work on that and once that is complete, I look forward to sharing that with you.

BEN JESSOME: So that’s not something that we can expect to see at any point. We’ll just have to kind of wait for updates that we may get whenever we get them in contravention to what the first item on your mandate letter clearly lays out. It references quarterly updates in relation to the tasks at hand that your government has identified as priorities. I had honestly expected that that was something that we might be able to get our hands on.

Can the minister comment on that through the Chair?

BRIAN WONG: We do have some items in our mandate that do have defined timelines and some that don’t have defined timelines. However, what was set out in our business plan that was sent out yesterday, does have our mandate items that are listed in there. That has been publicly shared. My apologies for the confusion on the answer.

BEN JESSOME: Perhaps - not necessarily on the fly - but the department and your staff could provide the specific timelines associated with the items that are laid out in the business plan. I do see start dates and years for commencement, but if there are timelines that the department and the minister have defined, we’d appreciate seeing what those look like.

Moving to another item on the mandate letter list, a focus on residency seats related to targeted placements based on specialties and defined needs. Can the minister comment on the work that’s been done on that particular item and whether or not he and the department have defined what specialty areas should be focused on and what we might be able to see in terms of placements?

BRIAN WONG: We do know that we need more doctors to really meet the vast health care needs of our growing and aging population. We are proud to add 16 additional medical seats to our medical school at Dalhousie University which was in 2019-20. Adding more seats helps us to recruit and retain doctors and support more Mi’kmaw, Indigenous, African Nova Scotian, and rural residents to become family doctors, which we so need.

We’re also committed to making the financial and educational investments with medical students like tuition and debt relief programs. Those programs, as far as trying to reach out to our diverse communities, we’re actively working on that.

[8:30 p.m.]

BEN JESSOME: The minister references 16 seats added in 2019-20. Those are pre-existing seats. The minister, through the Chair, references debt relief and tuition relief; also, pre-existing line items. I think even preceding our time in office.

I’m wondering if the minister can touch on some of the new - anything new - that’s been defined as a strategic priority for that group of professionals as we focus on health care as an important item.

BRIAN WONG: The focus is really on family and rural doctors. Part of the strategic health initiative is really to study that and to look at what we need and where we need it. There are also 10 seats available at Dalhousie - I’m not sure what the uptake on that is, but 10 seats for our Indigenous students and 10 seats for African Nova Scotian students. The focus is on rural family medicine.

Also, the 16 seats that you referred to, that was temporary funding; it’s now been made permanent funding for those seats.

BEN JESSOME: Thank you for that clarification, minister, through the Chair. Another piece of the mandate letter that I wanted to try and identify if there is expanded work being done was the piece around sexual violence strategies on university campuses. I’m wondering what - and the minister in his opening remarks did indicate that these institutions did have these strategies in place, and that they do require some revision - revision is not the appropriate word - some monitoring, consistently every three years.

I’m wondering what that distinction for that particular item on the minister’s mandate letter - what the distinction is there.

BRIAN WONG: As you’re well aware, this initiative really started under the former government. What we have done as a government is now rolled this out. It’s going to be rolled out to the private career colleges as well.

There is significant funding that goes into it each year. There is $470,000 that goes to the institutions in order for them to make sure that these policies are implemented. We’re looking forward to working with our private career colleges as we advance this very important endeavour.

BEN JESSOME: That’s excellent news. It’s amazing to hear that work is being continued.

I’m curious. In the past there have been grants associated with kind of self-made programming that would fit the needs of individual institutions based on the needs of those institutions, personnel, and people in those communities. The funding that you referenced, is that going to flow in a similar manner whereby these private career colleges are able to put forward their own solutions, or is this a scenario where something will be applied by government to their respective organizations?

BRIAN WONG: Our private career colleges are private businesses. We don’t have full control over anything they do. What we do and will offer is the experience and the programs and whatnot that are currently being offered at NSCC and our universities.

Some of the things we have in place are Waves of Change, which is bystander intervention training. I’ll just go through a few: development of online resource tool kits for sexual violence education and prevention, research and evaluation of university sexual violence policies. So, constant review. When we’re talking about students it is very different from when you’re dealing with NSCC or universities, as opposed to private institutions, but that expertise is already here.

BEN JESSOME: One would think that most organizations would be on board with this without much encouragement. Does the minister have any concern related to the uptake of this initiative with our private career colleges?

BRIAN WONG: As I said, they do have an association. We do work with the association; we do work with the career colleges individually. They are all different, they are from language schools to construction trades. We’ve had no pushback. We haven’t heard from any of our colleges that they are not willing to work with us.

BEN JESSOME: Moving on to the piece around the review of university charters and the governance structures, I did hear the words governance and compensation, and I wonder if the minister can provide the committee with some clarification on exactly what may go into that review, and what the intended outcome might be? While we do provide a tremendous amount of funding to our institutions, they are independent, and do have the ability to make their own decisions, so I’m curious what the minister means by a governance review that involves a look at compensation.

BRIAN WONG: That is one of the items that we are currently working on. I have recently been briefed on the progress. We have nine months to fulfill that obligation and I will certainly have a full report on that. Really, we’re going through them each individually. As you mentioned, they are independent institutions and we’re looking for consistencies, we’re looking for inconsistencies, we’re looking at things that we feel are working really well, or maybe something that isn’t working well. We’re doing a full scan of what’s out there right now, hoping to improve things for students in the end. As we continue to work on that, and we get a final report, I look forward to sharing it.

BEN JESSOME: I’m curious about the process and the activities that are taking place throughout the course of the next nine months with respect to engaging institutions. What sorts of personnel are involved? What type of discussions are you folks having? My perspective is just to ensure that the universities are partners in accomplishing progress rather than having the government produce a report that shows up in their lap and they’re expected to adhere to it.

BRIAN WONG: We have an incredible relationship with our university presidents through CONSUP, the Council of Nova Scotia University Presidents. We work together on a number of initiatives, so we are in constant consultation and talks and brainstorming with our universities. It is our Advanced Education staff who are conducting the review, but I can assure you it’s all in the best interests of making it better for students, for Nova Scotians, to really move forward together.

That is the whole feeling that I get when I speak to the university presidents. CONSUP is an amazing organization; they’re doing fabulous work. The review of this is something we do together.

BEN JESSOME: When this all comes to a conclusion does the minister foresee a set of recommendations? Are there going to be items that are defined to-dos by the minister, under the authority of the minister, or is this: this is what we’ve learned, here are some recommendations? I’m trying to understand once we get to that point of the end-case scenario, at the end of this nine months, what can the public, what can the universities, what can we expect to see in the way of directives or recommendations?

BRIAN WONG: At the end of the day, we want the student experience to be the best possible experience. We are actually looking at our partners, if there is regulation out there, we will have recommendations at the end of it. At the end of the day, we are truly looking to improve the experience of students who go to our Nova Scotia universities.

BEN JESSOME: I am hearing collaboration; I’m also hearing regulation and legislation. As the minister has indicated, and I know is exemplified through the work of the department, if that scenario takes place, where legislative and regulatory changes are a scenario that we get to, that the institutions will be brought along for the ride as collaborators rather than seeing something as a surprise. Ultimately, I know the students are at the heart of the work that goes in from both parties.

[8:45 p.m.]

Co-op education - I’m moving along here, I think. I’m wondering if the co-op education program is to be maintained or expanded? I know that it’s been over-subscribed to year after year for a couple of years, at least. I know the importance of paid co-op placements to students, not only in terms of recognizing the important work that they’re doing, but also from making ends meet, and the affordability of school, and other financial priorities.

I’m wondering what the minister can tell us about the future of the co-op program at the Department of Advanced Education.

BRIAN WONG: The co-op program is something that I believe in 100 per cent. Work Integrated Learning is a key mechanism in attaching students to the workforce. I believe that the more we have, that means the more opportunity that students have to test-drive a career path. They may love it or they may hate it, and it’s the time to do it.

Co-ops, as they are defined, they are paid positions. There are some inconsistencies across the university sector in the way that they’re offered. Some are offered for credits, some are offered as non-credit, some take three courses, they get two credits. But they are important, nonetheless.

We also have a list of programs that we offer under the Department of Advanced Education, such as what we offer through Mitacs. I have a whole page that I could go through, but I’m quite sure that you’re familiar with it. The traditional co-op program offered through the universities is actually governed through the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration, but we do work together in order to make sure that programming is as best as it possibly can be.

Please rest assured that we are looking at better ways to utilize Work Integrated Learning and co-op is a big piece of that.

BEN JESSOME: Just for greater certainty, through the Chair, it would be best suited to ask your counterpart at the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration about whether or not that co-op program is going to be expanded or increased levels of funding were going to be applied?

BRIAN WONG: My hope would be that we could expand the program, but that is something that we are still looking at. It is with every part of me, from my background working with experiential education would be that, if we could at all expand the program and work with our universities and work with the private sector, work with the public sector - my desire would be to expand the program.

That’s not saying that that’s going to happen overnight, but it is something that we are certainly looking at. As a matter of fact, through LSI, our Graduate to Opportunity program is oversubscribed as we speak.

BEN JESSOME: I’ll jump ahead a little bit since you referenced a program that I was going to ask about.

What can the minister tell us about the future of the Graduate to Opportunity program, for example?

BRIAN WONG: Thank you for that question. As I just mentioned, I am familiar with the program but that does lie with the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration, so I would leave any response to that to them.

BEN JESSOME: And the Innovate to Opportunity program would fall under the same category?

BRIAN WONG: That is correct.

BEN JESSOME: Let’s jump back into my regular batting order here and talk a little bit about student assistance.

I know the minister has met with organizations like the Canadian Federation of Students Nova Scotia and other student-led entities throughout the province. One glaring fact that comes to mind is that - and this can be referenced in the Students Nova Scotia most recent publication for their Advocacy Week - 15 per cent of students on Student Assistance still have unmet needs. The minister referenced an update to the weekly amount for Student Assistance, I believe in 2018, if I’m not mistaken. Can the minister provide some commentary?

When I look at the Student Assistance budget, I see only what I would consider a comparatively modest investment or upgrade to Student Assistance. What was done to evaluate that, to get to that amount, considering there is that much unmet need that is expressed out there?

BRIAN WONG: That increase was certainly under your government when you did that in 2018 - it was previously at $180, and it had been increased to $200. The increases that you see there, a chunk of that money is part of the disability support that we had when we had more students who really took advantage of that. That’s a very good news story that we’re spending more money on students who feel comfortable to go into our post-secondary system. Also, through their Repayment Assistance Plan, which is really a debt management tool to help students repay their loans at a rate that’s more comfortable for them, the variance in that was $1.1 million.

BEN JESSOME: So the additional Student Assistance funding that can be cited for the record is what we see here? I guess there’s been no look at updating the weekly amount to reflect a present-day need.

BRIAN WONG: Mx. Chair, the weekly rate has not changed in this budget. As I said, we are just starting; however, this year alone we did put $9.8 million into COVID-19 grants given to every student who had Nova Scotia Student Assistance. That worked out to $875 per student.

We also have, and it has been there through your government, every Nova Scotia student at a Nova Scotia university receives that bursary of $1,283 to reduce that cost of tuition. That continues to be there. We have non-repayable loans. We have student grants. A student can write off up to 40 per cent of their Nova Scotia student loan. As a matter of fact, a student with the highest needs at the end of their program could have up to $40,000 of Student Assistance that they do not need to repay.

So there are systems there. Are they adequate? Could we always do more? Of course, we could always do more, but as I said, this is the beginning for us. The best interests of students are always first and foremost. We look forward to helping students in any way that we can, moving forward.

BEN JESSOME: Through the Chair, I will acknowledge that that one-time grant was a specific ask from Students Nova Scotia. I think it’s important to note that - to me, that’s a demonstration that the government is listening to this particular group of students and trying to complement needs on the fly.

I will also add the importance of sustained support. Issues related to the highest tuition in the country - our universities are all in the top 13 of the highest tuition rates in the country for undergrad, and we’re now hearing more and more about student housing.

I hope that perhaps the minister can allude to some future sustained financial assistance changes that will have a more capable effect than what I’m sure was a very important one-time grant.

BRIAN WONG: We are working. We’ve been in for seven months. We have roundtable discussions with staff, with students, with post-secondary leaders, and we’re working on really creative solutions to help make post-secondary education doable for more students with less stress, to be able to get through their studies, to get a job here in Nova Scotia, to stay here in Nova Scotia, to raise their families here in Nova Scotia.

We still have a way to go. Some of those ideas, once they come across, we do want feedback. We want feedback from students. We want feedback from Opposition. We want feedback so that we can have the best plan going forward. In order to build a plan that’s going to work, we need to listen to what everybody has to say.

BEN JESSOME: It’s important to have those discussions and consider solutions from a round-table perspective. Does the minister think that updating the weekly amount is something that students can look forward to in the first half of his mandate, perhaps?

BRIAN WONG: Everything is on the table, and that is the truth. We did get elected on fixing health care. That’s not saying that our post-secondary institutions - it doesn’t mean that our students are going to take a back seat. We are doing everything that we possibly can to make the lives of Nova Scotians better. Students are under Advanced Education, and I will do everything in my power to make sure that students can afford to go to university, to community college, and to our private career colleges.

We have top-notch, internationally recognized institutions from one end of this province to the other. We’re attracting international students. We’re attracting instructors, professors, to come to these institutions because of their reputation. I will do everything I possibly can to make it work.

[9:00 p.m.]

BEN JESSOME: That’s great to hear. As I said earlier on, I know that the minister’s heart is in the right place with this file.

Speaking about the commitments around health care and international students, there is an age-old agenda item, since my days in the student advocacy world, related to MSI coverage for international students. Given that the government has such a strong priority around health care and the minister’s department has a focus on international students, I’m wondering if the minister can provide some comments on the request for MSI coverage for international students.

BRIAN WONG: You and I have had that conversation. We have had the conversation with Students Nova Scotia, and the Canadian Federation of Students. Some student unions have also brought that up.

It’s important that we welcome international students into our schools, into our communities, and make them feel part of Nova Scotia, because we want them to stay here. We want them to work here. We want them to raise their families here. MSI coverage is certainly part of that mix that could potentially help them.

However, in conversations with all of our stakeholders, sometimes there are more priorities than what the MSI could potentially bring. We have had conversations with the Department of Health and Wellness about potentially changing the coverage. We have looked at what other provinces are doing. We’re on par with some, and maybe we’re behind on others.

There are several different pieces to that that we are looking at. I’m not saying that we will or that we won’t, but what I am saying is that we’re going to act in the best interests of the students. If that’s something that we can fit into our mix, then that’ll certainly be up for discussion.

BEN JESSOME: Along the lines of supporting international students, one of the communicated challenges – and again, along the lines of affordability is where I’ve put this.

Some have expressed concern around the cap that exists on how much international students can work in the province. I’m wondering what the minister has heard with respect to that particular item, and what changes might be deployed to enable international students to work more to make education more affordable for them?

BRIAN WONG: When we talk about affordability for international students, one of the things that they need to do, for a lot of them, not all of them, they do need to work. A lot of them can find work, depending on how many weeks they’re here, whether they’re here for the summer or whether they travel.

As a matter of fact, just a few weeks ago I met with a group of Mount Saint Vincent University students. There were some international students in the mix and that exact question came up. International students can work a maximum of 20 hours per week in order to try to help fund their studies.

We did take that question back, and we asked the question of the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration, and it’s also having to work with our federal counterparts in order to make that work. I didn’t even need a note, it’s right at the top of my head. We are working towards that.

BEN JESSOME: I’m grateful for that response, and that you are meeting with my classmates at Mount Saint Vincent University. I had to be excused from class tonight to join you all this evening. I’m here and glad to be here, and glad to hear that you’re consulting with Mount Saint Vincent students alike.

On to the question of open education resources. Students Nova Scotia presented what I observed to be a pretty reasonable ask that could have an important effect on students’ ability to get the information they need, vis-à-vis textbooks. I know the minister is aware of it, so I’m wondering how those discussions have gone and what might be in store for that particular initiative.

BRIAN WONG: We had a discussion about open education resources as well when we met. That is a question that we have brought up to every university president, every student group that we have spoken to.

We understand that it is important to reduce costs for students. There have been multiple examples of students spending $250 for a textbook and they may use one chapter. As you know, the Council of Atlantic Academic Libraries had a pilot project that was quite successful. We looked at the results in that, and that is certainly something that the individual institutions are looking at progressing, and we are looking as well to work with universities in our post-secondary sector in order to try to get some open education resources more available to students.

BEN JESSOME: Just to clarify, it sounds like the minister is indicating that the institutions are going to take the lead to facilitate this objective. How do we track that to ensure that progress is being made and that - what is one would observe to be comparatively a pretty modest investment - that would have a particular positive effect on students’ bottom line? How will we ensure that that yardstick keeps getting moved?

BRIAN WONG: I apologize if I left you with the impression that all universities and presidents were working towards this. Right now, what we’re trying to do is define exactly what is needed, and we haven’t made a yardstick yet. But as I said, we are in conversations. We realize it’s important to students and we will eventually set some parameters and hopefully have a yardstick that we can measure it against.

BEN JESSOME: I’m wondering - shifting gears - given the conflict that we’re seeing in Ukraine, I’m wondering if the minister has had much discussion with our institutions around bringing in students from that part of the world. I guess just generally speaking, where do you see the minds of our institutions, with respect to bringing in folks through the education stream in Nova Scotia, if that’s something that’s on the table?

BRIAN WONG: Mx. Chair, our department directly, we’ve had casual conversations, but this is really under the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration, who also look after the EduNova Co-operative. What they are working on is really trying to expedite students and families coming into Nova Scotia. Even if we do get any of the Ukrainians who come into Nova Scotia, they’re not ready to go to school. What we need to do is make sure that we welcome them into Nova Scotia and make them comfortable and give them what they need. Education is probably not top of mind right away, but we’re open and we are willing to help in any way we can.

BEN JESSOME: I appreciate that support and that consideration. I would agree, it’s probably not the first thing on their mind, but we only have so many tools in our tool belt to try and support, and one of them is a direct line through the education system, which I would suggest is a little simpler than others.

Shifting gears again, I’m wondering if the department has any role, initiatives, work towards - with the intent to streamline in-migration of various professionals. I’ll add some context here. For example, I’ve spoken to an individual who was a certified EMT in the state of Pennsylvania, and we have a former minister of health affiliated with Dalhousie, Dr. Ron Stewart, who was the medical director of the paramedic system in Pennsylvania, and when this person came to Nova Scotia as a registered EMT, they were unable to jump into a role in our paramedic system.

I think of another individual I met who was a 15-year search and rescue technician with the military doing search and rescue missions, providing emergency pre-hospital care on the fly, who was told he had to go back to school to upgrade when he wanted to transfer into civilian work. In that context, does Advanced Education play a role in creating a more seamless environment for families and individuals to transition into the workforce here in Nova Scotia, if they want to make Nova Scotia their home?

BRIAN WONG: That is something that’s very important to our government, but what you’re asking really falls under Labour, Skills and Immigration for credentialing and matching of programming and whatnot, what’s needed.

But I will tell you a personal story - in my role as principal of an experiential high school and an adult high school, we had a 46-year-old gentleman who came back to school to get his Grade 12. This story really revolves around we also need to work with private enterprise and whatnot, but this person was a welder, he was a blacksmith, and he had his own YouTube channel with over 100,000 viewers. He worked for almost three decades, and what he did, he was an expert, but he couldn’t get a job because he didn’t have a high school diploma.

We have a long way to go when we’re looking at micro-credentials, when looking at prior learning, not just for the education system and not just for government, but out there in private industry and whatnot as well. But it is something that is important to our government, to make sure that when people come into the province from wherever they come - if they’re from a different province or a different country - that we give them credit where credit is due.

[9:15 p.m.]

THE CHAIR: I would just like to remind the honourable member that you have five minutes left.

BEN JESSOME: Thank you, Mx. Chair.

Through you, on a couple of different occasions, even in the Budget Address itself, we’ve heard the engagement that the Premier undertook to reach out to nursing students and what an important activity that was, to engage nursing students. We subsequently heard the financial support that was contributed to address an unmet need with that particular group of students.

More recently, Dalhousie nursing students were called to take on what I would consider to be a bit of a forced role. I know that there’s some time and a place scenario, given the COVID-19 world we’re in. They were kind of called to service. But if it’s so important, that milestone around the Premier meeting with nursing students and the subsequent decision to help them meet a financial need that was observed as a problem, I guess my concern is that they were called to action and provided what could only be described as a less-than-minimum wage equivalent to do this work in our long-term care facilities.

I’m wondering if the minister can comment on whether he thinks it’s appropriate that these same students make the equivalent of $6 an hour to do this work.

BRIAN WONG: You know what? That was a time in our history, a time and place, a time of COVID-19, that the Province called upon nursing students to help out in a situation where they were really needed. A lot of the nursing students, for their clinical placements - they were actually cancelled so a lot of the nursing students would potentially not have been able to graduate on time because their clinical placements were cancelled.

In addition, when they do their placements, they’re not paid placements. They’re placements that they do as part of their education. The Premier felt that it was very important, since nursing students across the province stepped up and helped out, and he wanted to show them some gratitude - and the $1,000 to help them along the way was very much well-received. We are so appreciative of the nursing students, the instructors - the clinical instructors - who stepped in. It was well-received by the long-term care facilities that they were in and by the students themselves and the faculty. It wasn’t meant to be a wage; it was simply meant to show our appreciation.

BEN JESSOME: I guess I would just suggest that my conversations went a little bit differently with nursing students related to concerns around having to - around circumventing a mandatory component to their training and their certification. They were supposed to be focusing on acute and mental health care, which I would - I only have a minute left here, so perhaps the minister can comment on whether or not he believes it’s okay that they had to forgo this critical element of their training.

BRIAN WONG: As I mentioned, some of the nursing students wouldn’t have been able to finish their program on time had they waited maybe until now to start their clinical placements. But they did meet the competencies; they did meet the educational outcomes that they . . .

THE CHAIR: Order. The time for questions from the Official Opposition has ended.

I now move for a five-minute recess before we move on to the next questions.

[9:20 p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]

[ 9:30 p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]

THE CHAIR: Order please. My name is David Ritcey, I am the MLA for Truro-Bible Hill-Millbrook-Salmon River. I will be chairing the second half of this subcommittee.

I’m going to start with the NDP now. The time is 9:31 p.m.

The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

LISA LACHANCE: I am excited to change spots and get a little more into the conversation. I think the minister and I have had a chance to meet before and I’ve been able to share my passion for post-secondary education. So I’m actually still a student. I’m completing my Ph.D. in Health at Dalhousie University this year - now I’m on the record so it’s going to happen. Prior to that I was a sessional instructor at Dalhousie University and managed a national research project and I’ve been involved in a number of large, national research and international research collaborations. I’m also a parent trying to transition some kids into post-secondary education, and I have four universities in my riding and thousands of students, staff, administration, and faculty. Obviously, this is near and dear to my heart.

I have a few questions to go through and I’m looking forward to the conversation tonight. I might just start sort of where the honourable member for Hammonds Plains-Lucasville left off, or close to that. Again, on the question of tuition fees - undergraduate Nova Scotian students have been paying the highest tuition fees of any province in the country for the last couple of years, the average being $9,028. The Nova Scotia Student Loan Forgiveness Program provides some relief but students who are in graduate professional programs, students who take longer than five years to complete their degree, or students who don’t complete their degree don’t qualify.

The Students Nova Scotia 2020-21 Advocacy Week document noted that the average tuition costs have increased by 16.9 per cent since 2017. Can the minister comment on the current approach to tuition fees in Nova Scotia?

BRIAN WONG: As I mentioned before, students are really at the forefront of absolutely everything we do. Tuition is a big deal. I have a son who is graduating this year. He has been accepted at NSCC Ivany Campus for Business, at approximately $3,700 a year, or he can go to Dalhousie at $9,300 a year. For me it’s a no-brainer because I am paying for it. (Laughter)

It absolutely is an obstacle, and we understand that tuition fees, along with everything else, are an obstacle for a lot of students. We have really maintained the status quo of what was there before, but I just want to assure you that this is the very first seven months of my mandate and we are going to continue to work with the post-secondary institutions, all students and all stakeholders, to try to find ways to make it more accessible for all students.

I do realize that the weekly rate has not been increased. However, if students, depending on where they fit, and what their needs are when they finish the program, and the programs that they do, there are better solutions for some than others. It’s not always equitable, it’s not always fair, but that’s why we’re having these conversations now. I appreciate the questions, because it gives us more thought in order to dig deep.

I look forward to continuing the conversations with you and truly moving this forward and trying to make it more affordable for students.

LISA LACHANCE: Is the goal to reduce tuition or freeze tuition in Nova Scotia?

BRIAN WONG: We don’t have one particular goal over the other right now, but we are in conversations, and like I say, seven months in, we’ve learned a lot. We’ve learned a lot by talking directly to students, by talking to you, by talking to members of every party, and all of our stakeholders. As we continue to learn and put the information together and really try to find the best way forward, there are some creative solutions out there. There are some creative solutions in other jurisdictions that I don’t think that we’ve really considered. We are delving into some of those, and once we get to a point where we can narrow it down to a few, I am looking forward to having conversations.

LISA LACHANCE: Does this year’s budget include an increase or decrease in operating funds for post-secondary institutions, taking into account an approximate inflation rate of five per cent?

BRIAN WONG: Written into the MOUs that will expire in 2024 there’s a 1 per cent increase to the universities’ operating funds. That’s what’s reflected in the budget.

LISA LACHANCE: I guess along with Student Assistance, the operating budget is not keeping up with inflation for post-secondary institutions in Nova Scotia.

I referenced the recent announcement of $65 million in deferred maintenance investments at four rural universities, and I know from my conversations - as you know, I’ve met with CONSUP, and done a bit of a university tour myself - so I certainly know the pressures on institutions around deferred maintenance. Can the minister please explain how the institutions were chosen, and what’s the plan for other institutions that continue to have deferred maintenance challenges?

BRIAN WONG: We were very pleased to offer four universities some help with their deferred maintenance. Our universities are really the mechanism that’s going to educate students who are going into the workforce, who are going to have families here. It’s going to increase our population. For us to thrive as an economy, our universities are at the very forefront of that. If we can assist them at all, we will.

In your specific question on how we chose the universities, not only do we want our immigration to happen right here, just in the metro area, we want to make sure that our communities outside of here will thrive as well. The wonderful thing about our rural universities is that they are communities, they’re within communities, and communities need to be able to grow culturally, size-wise, population, infrastructure-wise, with everything that we’re doing and everything we want to do as a government.

By helping out rural universities, it allows them to focus on other things. It allows them to focus on better programming for students, better facilities for students. Cape Breton University does an exceptional job - and all universities do a good job, some better than others, on attracting international students, and students from other provinces.

International students who are going to Cape Breton, they want to stay in Cape Breton. If they can stay there, find jobs there, raise families there, buy houses there, and eventually they will, then that’s positive. That’s what we’re looking for.

LISA LACHANCE: Certainly, I recognize the value of universities across the province - as you know, I have a strong connection to the Annapolis Valley. I went to high school in Canning, and certainly my experience and my family’s experience has always been enriched by the presence of Acadia University, for instance, in Wolfville. I totally understand the positive impact.

I’m wondering if you can share what sort of evidence was brought to bear. What specific information did you use, or do you have access to, that tracks the pathway, perhaps offers some idea of the financial implications of students to residents? For lack of a better word, does that pipeline exist in Nova Scotia? How did you investigate that?

BRIAN WONG: My apologies. Could you please clarify that question for me? Sorry.

LISA LACHANCE: How do you know that students who study at a rural university will choose to stay in that rural community? What evidence do you have that that happens in Nova Scotia?

BRIAN WONG: If I actually said that, then I misspoke. I believe what I said is that from talking to university leadership, talking to students and whatnot, specific to Cape Breton, a lot of their students want to stay.

There’s really no indication that the student who may go to Acadia University doesn’t want to move to Halifax or want to move to Toronto. But what does happen is that we become attached to the school. My first university degree - and by the way, I’ve gone to a lot of universities in Nova Scotia - that’s where my real attachment is. That’s where I met lifelong friends and went through experiences and stuff together.

It was a small university, but I also went to Mount Saint Vincent University and Dalhousie University. I’ve done courses at Saint Mary’s University. I’ve been to Université Sainte-Anne. The only places I don’t think I’ve been are probably St. Francis Xavier University and Cape Breton University. I should do a couple of courses there, just to say I’ve done it.

I do believe that all of our universities, they’re different. They offer students a different experience, and that’s why students choose to go to Saint Mary’s, or Cape Breton, or Université Sainte-Anne. That’s the richness of what we have. We truly look - I look at our post-secondary system, our university sector, as a huge asset to Nova Scotia. Where students are going to be, you know what? We have to create the environment. As a government, we have to create the environment where students will want to stay in Nova Scotia.

I talked earlier about the co-op programs or the work-integrated learning programs. I think the more we can connect students, while they are still in school, to the workforce through work-integrated learning, the better opportunity we have of keeping them right here in Nova Scotia. We’re not going to keep every student here in Nova Scotia, but I think we can do a darn good job of it. Our population is increasing. If you look at Wolfville right now, it’s one of the fastest-growing towns in Nova Scotia, and one of the big reasons is because they are alumni - they’re alumni that went to Acadia and lived in Wolfville, and they want to retire there.

LISA LACHANCE: As you know from your tour of universities - I’m sure you were shared the same information at other universities like Saint Mary’s and Dalhousie, and NSCAD and Mount Saint Vincent also come to mind, where there are ongoing deferred maintenance needs. I think at universities in HRM, enrolment is increasing. Really, HRM is also growing. They would probably make the same argument about some of the rural universities in terms of student population growth and other population growth.

[9:45 p.m.]

What is the plan for addressing the ongoing deferred maintenance at these other universities?

BRIAN WONG: As you know, our university sector is all independently board-governed institutions and they are the ones that make the decision about deferred maintenance, so they make decisions whether or not they put money into deferred maintenance or they offer a program or they offer something else for students, but it is really up to them.

What is wonderful about the announcement that we made - it was a big shot in the arm for those universities that received it. Had we spread that out amongst six other universities it would have really decreased the effect and the shot in the arm that they really needed.

This is our first seven months here. There is still more to come from us to help universities in different ways - maybe deferred maintenance, maybe programming, maybe a variety of things, but this is the first kick at the can for us. We’re very pleased to be able to give a good shot in the arm to those four universities.

LISA LACHANCE: I’d like to return to some of the questioning from the honourable member from Hammonds Plains-Lucasville around the part of the minister’s mandate letter that refers to reviewing the Acts and charters of all post-secondary institutions in Nova Scotia. I know that the member for Hammonds Plains-Lucasville asked a number of questions, but I still can’t get it - so I still don’t understand what the goal is.

This is a huge undertaking that maybe people haven’t said it to the minister, but people have definitely said it to me that it’s causing consternation amongst university leadership - so what is the goal of this project?

BRIAN WONG: I’ve had conversations with all of the university presidents. I met with CONSUP several times. I have not heard the same fear, so I am not sure if you spoke to them before I had an opportunity to speak to them or not. But more specifically, we are certainly doing an inventory of all the Acts, the legislation, and the policies. We are looking at the size of boards. We are looking at things that we hope can improve the student experience. We want to make sure that once we do a jurisdictional scan that maybe there’s some commonalities there. Maybe there are things that are similar that will help other schools, or maybe there are things that aren’t working, so it is certainly a jurisdictional scan and I have all the items that I just mentioned, and we have nine months to do so.

It’s a big task and we’ve had staff working on it since the very beginning. It is collaborative and we’re having great conversations with people. I truly look forward to sharing our findings at the nine-month period.

LISA LACHANCE: The minister has referred to this process as collaborative. I’m wondering if the minister can elaborate on that and what that means. Is there a standing committee that’s meeting? Are there terms of reference? How are concepts and/or university administrations and students and faculty being brought into this conversation and this review?

BRIAN WONG: As I mentioned earlier, we have spoken with CONSUP, we have consulted with the administration at the universities. This is a conversation we have also had with Students Nova Scotia, the student groups are very well aware that this is under way. It is the team at Advanced Education that is in charge of putting this together.

When I say that we have been consulting, we have been consulting, and it is collaborative.

LISA LACHANCE: I appreciate the answer from the minister. I guess when you talk about a collaborative project, I think about things like a shared document that people might have a chance to review, that sets out the goals, and a project charter of why this is being undertaken, how it will be undertaken, and roles and responsibilities. I don’t know if that’s part of the conversation or not, and perhaps the minister can clarify.

Is the minister considering a single university Act?

BRIAN WONG: I am not considering a single university. I mentioned earlier that our 10 universities are assets. They all have their own unique personality; they attract a certain type of student. To not have the universities have their identity would be a travesty to what has been grown here, those communities. If you look at the individual communities where universities are sitting, they have their own identity within that community, and to destroy that would take us backwards. That would not help us achieve our rigorous goals of really growing the economy, increasing our population to make sure that we have people doing the jobs of today and tomorrow.

We appreciate the work the universities do. Their individual, independent boards of governors, and look forward to long-lasting relationships with each one of them.

LISA LACHANCE: I certainly appreciate that perspective. I am a perennial student, so my undergrad, when I was involved in the student union organizing in Nova Scotia, the topic of whether there would be a University of Nova Scotia was a fairly common topic. At the same time the one thing that did emerge during that period was a number of program amalgamations or rationalizations. I’m wondering if the minister can comment on whether that’s part of the work that’s being undertaken.

BRIAN WONG: To answer part of that question, the program inventory is certainly not part of this phase. What I will say is there is already collaboration going on within the universities. If you look at Université Sainte-Anne, it has schools in Halifax. They are looking into working with Saint Mary’s University to an extent. We met with the Atlantic School of Theology and Saint Mary’s happens to be somebody that they’re partnering with.

Across universities, they’re doing it themselves, because they know that at the end of the day it’s in the best interests of students, and the more that they can collaborate and work together, the better off everybody is. The thing I mentioned earlier about there being an awful lot of university students who are doing course work and stuff at NSCC and vice versa, so this is already starting to happen naturally without having to have government intervention.

My personal opinion is that the more we can align things and have schools work together, the better off everybody will be for it.

LISA LACHANCE: The minister has spoken a lot about centering the student experience and putting the student at the centre of the discussion about advanced education in Nova Scotia, so switching gears a little bit.

It’s already been referenced tonight: The government has announced new NSCC residences at three campuses. This is good news and absolutely needed. I did have someone approach me and ask me about the affordability of those residences. They quoted a number that would seem to imply that students would pay $800 to $1,000 per month for a room. I don’t know if that’s been determined yet.

I’m wondering if the minister can explain what work is being done to ensure that the residences are affordable?

BRIAN WONG: It’s not been determined yet, but NSCC does work on a cost recovery model and really has to determine what the rates are going to be with whatever they need to recover their costs.

LISA LACHANCE: I’m just wondering if I can clarify through the minister if the government, as an investor in this project, is part of the conversation about the affordability of the new residences.

BRIAN WONG: That is absolutely part of the conversation for all our student experiences. We are having conversations. As I said, NSCC works on a cost recovery model. We’re not there yet. Really, it was just announced and just approved to go ahead with the project, so we’re just not there yet.

LISA LACHANCE: The minister has certainly spoken passionately about co-op placements, about the skilled trades. I know a number of these initiatives are perhaps shared, or the responsibility is shared, with other departments like the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration. I have a few questions about that work.

In the Progressive Conservatives’ platform from this past summer, there was a reference to a program called the Jill of All Trades events for teen girls where students can attend a full day of hands-on workshops and connect with women who are currently working in the trades, with the commitment to bring this model to Nova Scotia through the NSCC and other partner organizations. It was costed at $42,000; I imagine that’s annual. I’m just wondering if this program is indeed in the budget.

[10:00 p.m.]

BRIAN WONG: When we talk about co-op programs or we talk about any kind of work-integrated learning program, I do back that 100 per cent. As I mentioned earlier, the earlier that we can get students attached to the workforce, whether it’s skilled trades or otherwise, it’s always a good thing.

We did a video session with a trades class at the Marconi Campus and there were several women in the program who went through the Women Unlimited program which is managed through the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration. They thought it was a wonderful program that gave them the opportunity to test out the skilled trades, and they’re really looking forward to graduating.

They came from diverse backgrounds as well. Some of the women were mothers and had come from different jobs. That stuff is very important to me, but the program that you’re referring to specifically is under the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration. I’ll defer that to them.

LISA LACHANCE: I believe the minister and I have had a chance to talk about these issues before. I’m wondering if this government has pathway programs - programs that encourage the entry of traditionally underrepresented groups into different educational programs as a priority for the department, whether that’s based on gender, gender diversity, I also think about first-generation newcomers, Indigenous students, African Nova Scotian students.

Is there a commitment from the government to look at and encourage pathway programs at all institutions?

BRIAN WONG: We do have a number of programs. I did have to reach over to grab the list of some of the things that we’re doing.

One of the things right off the top of my mind was very early on and unfortunately, I couldn’t make the ceremony. The Unama'ki P-TECH program that we have in Cape Breton is (Inaudible) taking high school students and combining NSCC to get these students involved in technology. That’s a wonderful program that is geared towards our Mi’kmaw populations.

We have the African Nova Scotian early childhood educators program at NSCC. We have the Mi’kmaw master of social work program. Dalhousie Medical Sciences has African Nova Scotian and Mi’kmaw cohorts. We also have a Mi’kmaw and Indigenous student nursing program. We also have an Indigenous Blacks and Mi’kmaq Initiative at the Dalhousie Schulich School of Law and we have the Dalhousie Transition Year Program.

LISA LACHANCE: A number of those programs have been in existence for a very long time such as the IBM program and the Transition Year Program at Dalhousie. I’m wondering if there are new programs that the government would like to see, or is the government proposing areas where these programs are needed?

BRIAN WONG: All our post-secondary schools have diversity, inclusion, and equity programs and I’m sure that you’re aware of that.

For our Mi’kmaw and Indigenous post-secondary students, we’ve included all of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada’s calls to action, the 13 principles of Indigenous education in post-secondary, and mandate statements.

We’re looking to improve and increase the collection of Mi’kmaw and Indigenous student data and research; increase the availability of cultural safe spaces to positively impact Indigenous student health and well-being and post-secondary success; build capacity and connect with Mi’kmaw communities in Nova Scotia, enhancing the availability of Mi’kmaw language courses and teaching Mi’kmaw language certificates; and recognition of prior learning for trades.

LISA LACHANCE: I think it’s always really important to ask ourselves each and every day how our work contributes to responding to the calls to action from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I’m really pleased to hear that reference in the minister’s remarks.

I’m wondering if there is new funding being provided in this budget to support the TRC calls to action, particularly Call to Action No. 16, which talks about the need to create university and college degree and diploma programs in traditional languages.

BRIAN WONG: For the first time tonight, I’m going to say you stumped me. We don’t have anything in the budget for that. That is certainly something we’ll take forward for consideration.

LISA LACHANCE: I thank the minister for his answer. I would encourage the department to look at how to actually substantiate and fund the commitment to implementing the calls to action from the TRC. As you know, it’s great to have priorities, but if you don’t fund them, they don’t get done. If they’re not written down, no one’s going to measure them. I certainly appreciate the commitment but would like to see action, particularly action in the way of funding.

On another, perhaps missing, mandate, many of the members who are present tonight would have heard me talk about the fact that there is nothing in any information currently from this current government in Nova Scotia about how the government will support members of the 2SLGBTQ+ communities. There’s nothing in the platform. There’s nothing in the Speech from the Throne. There’s nothing that I’ve found in the budget except for one throwaway line about including same-sex couples in another file.

I hope the minister had a chance to receive and review a letter that I sent to the majority of Cabinet ministers and the Premier calling upon the minister and his colleagues to consider how his department can support the development and flourishing of the 2SLGBTQ+ communities in Nova Scotia.

I’m wondering if the minister can explain what work Advanced Education is doing to support 2SLGBTQ+ students and faculty.

BRIAN WONG: As I mentioned earlier, all the universities have their own departments of diversity, equity, and inclusion. They do work independently on the programs and stuff that they do put forward.

LISA LACHANCE: I do have a follow-up question, and then maybe I’ll also launch my next question just to limit the back and forth a little bit.

I just wanted to ask the minister to confirm that there’s no budget allocation that supports 2SLGBTQ+ students in the Department of Advanced Education’s budget.

Then, moving on to another group of students that are near and dear to my heart, and I’ve done a lot of work with over the years: the issue of supporting people to attend post-secondary education who were formerly in the care of the province. A number of universities have taken it upon themselves to offer tuition waivers to former youth in care. I guess that it’s my opinion and my goal that there would be a province-wide approach to this.

This is one area, like for instance mandating sexual violence policies or other things, where the government could have a role - particularly having been the guardian of these young people - to help them transition to the next stage in life. I’m wondering if the minister can explain also what work is underway on supporting former youth in care to attain post-secondary education.

BRIAN WONG: Youth in care, youth at risk - I hang my hat on being the principal of an alternative high school for 12 years. Not all the youth were in care, but we had many that went through our doors. They all have different challenges that, unless you’re in care or very close to people in care, or somebody like yourself who was a host, probably wouldn’t understand everything that they go through.

I think it’s important that they do have the opportunity for a post-secondary education. The Department of Community Services, I believe, does a pretty good job of wrapping themselves around these kids and ensuring that that pathway is available to them. It was very heartwarming to see when the first university opened their doors to students who had been in care.

LISA LACHANCE: I want to switch gears again. I have a few minutes remaining and then I’m going to offer some time to the honourable member for Cumberland North.

I wanted to talk a bit about Research Nova Scotia. In many ways, Research Nova Scotia also does what I consider to be very important work in the province. For those who maybe aren’t as familiar with Research Nova Scotia, it’s actually a newly created organization in 2018 or 2019, I can’t remember the exact year.

It’s really intended to do a couple of things. One is to support researchers and institutions in Nova Scotia be a part of the national and international conversations about research.

For instance, often federal research money comes with the need to see that the province is committed to a certain project, whether that’s just through Research Nova Scotia or if they broker on behalf of an institutional relationship with another government department. Sometimes there are matching funds requirements. That’s very important.

Nova Scotia has been at risk over the past number of years. I can think of a couple of funding opportunities where we were very short on the matching funds. We were at risk of losing research opportunities that were in critical areas such as school food, refugees, and other really important research work. That’s one part of their role.

[10:15 p.m.]

The other part is they really see themselves as an important institution for knowledge mobilization. So they really want to be making sure that research is happening in Nova Scotia that responds to community priorities, that responds to government priorities, and that researchers also work with communities and government, to support that relationship. That was a very long intro to say a couple of things.

One is I’m wondering if the minister can comment on the strategic vision that he or the department has around Research Nova Scotia, and secondly, if there is a plan to make the $25 million an ongoing investment on an annual basis?

BRIAN WONG: The ongoing funding for Research Nova Scotia is approximately $6.8 million. That $25 million big shot in the arm was really - we look at Research Nova Scotia as being that ecosystem that connects all the other ecosystems. We have a university ecosystem in research, we have a private research system, our NSCCs have research. We have so much that’s going on with government, with private enterprises, that we want to make sure that they connect. We want to make sure that we’re not duplicating things.

I believe that in Nova Scotia, when there’s a problem, I think there’s a Nova Scotia solution. A lot of people don’t know how to connect to that. When we were visiting colleges and the NSCC Annapolis Valley Campus in Middleton there’s amazing things that are going on. There is research going on with drone technology used to measure the height and quality of Christmas trees. If you’ve ever been to a Christmas tree farm, it’s very hilly, it’s very difficult to walk, and it takes a lot of person hours to go with a stick and measure them. With a drone they can do 50 acres in a couple of hours.

There’s also research going on at Mount Saint Vincent University, Alzheimer’s research, children’s nutrition research and whatnot. We want to make sure that they connect. Mitacs is a wonderful example of monies being used for research for some of the most innovative things that are going on in the world. When we look at companies like Tesla, the Tesla lab that they have at Dalhousie University, that is research that private companies are looking to advance themselves, that are using our post-secondary institutions, our Research Nova Scotia, in order to do that.

We need to continue to do that, because every time there is a company that comes up with some kind of innovation through research, that creates good jobs. There is a lot of stuff going on in the province right now even around psychedelics and trying to get psychedelics going. Research Nova Scotia could potentially play a significant role in a new industry that we would have here in Nova Scotia.

My vision would truly be to try to get Research Nova Scotia to be that central core that connects all the ecosystems - federally, provincially, municipally, small business, big business. It doesn’t matter where it comes from, but we need somebody to coordinate that effort and Research Nova Scotia is a key partner in that. They do leverage their money very well, as you would know. I feel that likely you could have answered this question very well yourself. Better, even.

LISA LACHANCE: I did appreciate hearing your vision for Research Nova Scotia, absolutely. I have probably 30 seconds for one quick, final question. I appreciated the focus on sexual violence policies and ensuring that institutions across the province have policies in place, and are reviewing policies, and implementing policies. I’m wondering if the department or the minister is considering other priority areas, such as alcohol and substance use.

BRIAN WONG: Student health is all important to us. Of course, drug abuse and alcohol abuse lead to mental health issues. We as a government have truly put a lot of effort forward for that. We support any of the efforts and stuff that our post-secondaries are doing in order to reduce the use of drugs and the use of alcohol.

There’s a lot of good work going on out there with some of our not-for-profit groups in harm reduction. It’s important to recognize that, and to support that where we can, and to continue supporting students who are in trouble because of alcohol and drug abuse.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Cumberland North with 10 minutes to go.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: Thank you for this opportunity to ask a few questions. Just in response to my colleague’s question, it takes me back to the culture in universities around alcohol.

It was a few years ago, but I remember in frosh week being woken up at four o’clock in the morning and being paraded around. They actually took us in front of NSLC and told us we had to get on our knees and bow down to it. If you can imagine that and being 17 years old. That was what the frosh week leaders did back in those days. There’s definitely a culture of alcohol and drinking.

I wanted to ask a question that my colleague touched on around sexual violence on campus. I know there’s been some work done, but I’m wondering if the department spends any money on that and is there any reporting? Are universities accountable to your department to report actual incidents of sexual violence. Are they responsible to report on what action is taken, if any, to the department?

BRIAN WONG: We have committed $470,000 per year to the universities and NSCC in order to help support their sexual violence prevention programs. As far as collecting data from each one, we do not have a central collection system of their data. They keep that with each independent institution.

I’m not sure if you were here earlier or not, but that is one of the items that we have also put forward to our private career colleges, that they have a sexual violence prevention policy at their schools as well.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: I’m wondering if the minister and his department might consider some accountability measures.

The reason I bring that up and the reason I’m asking these questions is, in Cumberland North, we don’t have a university. We are close to a university, of course, just across the border at Mount Allison University, but we have a lot of young adults who would go to Nova Scotia universities.

Unfortunately, I’ve had some come and meet with me and report that they have been a victim of sexual violence at a Nova Scotia university campus. In every situation, when it was reported, no action was taken. The victims felt like the university was trying to hide it because they didn’t want it to get to the public.

The students came to me to say this culture - this would have been in the last two to four years, so it’s recent - the students are telling me that there may be policies, but is there accountability for reporting incidents and who’s watching to see that actions are actually being taken? The students, in several incidents, believe that there was no action taken. That’s why I bring that up today.

If there are policies, we want to make sure that they’re effective. If we’re spending taxpayers’ money, we want to make sure that it’s being put to good use.

BRIAN WONG: What’s very fortunate is that those young adults who were assaulted had somebody to talk to in you. Sexual assault is a criminal offence. Our universities do report on their progress, and they do report how things are going.

As far as reporting specific incidents, as I said, they are criminal matters. Unfortunately, there is a culture out there where sexual assault still happens. There’s also shaming and all kinds of things that happen where young people, or anybody, are very hesitant to report.

As far as collecting statistics, I think that would be very difficult and may even be inappropriate, I guess, for universities to try and track whether or not it’s been followed-up on. We absolutely do have to change the culture. We have to support this program and we have to get it out there that sexual assault is just not something that we can do.

Just to refer back to when we talked about alcohol and drug abuse and addictions, my son is in Grade 12 and it’s a very different world out there. When he was in Grade 9, we went to the drugstore and got a naloxone kit. I told him that every time he goes to a party to make sure he has it in his backpack. He thought I was crazy. He said that he and his buddies don’t do drugs and opioids and stuff.

Now it’s a very different world in Grade 12. When they go to parties, the kids have test strips to test whether or not there’s fentanyl or different things. It’s a crazy world out there now. We have to recognize that and accept it and do whatever we can to reduce the harm and support victims as best we can.

Thank you for that question. It is an important question.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: I do have one other question that I’d like to ask. Before I do, something that the minister could consider in his department is, in health care we collect a lot of data but don’t use names. You could require universities to track reported incidents and ensure that there is follow-up and still ensure confidentiality. I think that’s something I would love the minister to consider just to make sure that there is accountability and that victims can get some better action and results.

What I wanted to ask a question about was just follow-up from the Fall session regarding licensed practical nurses. I’ve had many LPNs approach me. They want to become an RN and unless they have done their two-year training at an NSCC campus, they are not eligible for the 2+2 to become an RN. It affects a lot of LPNs in Cumberland County because a lot of them do their training in Moncton.

I’ve had nurses contact me from all over the province. They have perhaps trained in Ontario and moved here to Nova Scotia or any other province. As we know, LPNs all have the same national exam so in order to qualify for the exam, they have to have a credentialed schooling program.

What we’ve asked and have been asking now for three to four years is for all LPNs to be eligible for the 2+2. I’ve had some LPNs with 18 years of experience but who did their training in Ontario and would have to literally start from scratch to become an RN in the program. I’m just wondering if there’s been any progress on that work that we had discussed in the Fall.

[10:30 p.m.]

THE CHAIR: The honourable Minister of Advanced Education with one minute to go.

Order. The time for the NDP caucus is up. I’ll now pass it over to our Liberal caucus. The time now is 10:31 p.m.

The honourable member for Hammonds Plains-Lucasville.

BEN JESSOME: I would appreciate if the minister could respond to wrap up that question. I’ve got one question and then I believe the minister can have some time for closing remarks and read his resolution. Perhaps you can answer the previous question quickly and then jump back in.

BRIAN WONG: Thank goodness, yes, we have had progress on that. It’s just like if you’re coming from another province or another country, to try to get proper credentialling for work that you’ve already done, it’s important that we do it here in Nova Scotia.

I know you’ve brought that up before. We did take those suggestions back, and we are working with the schools, working with the College of Nursing, to make sure that credentialling and everything works out, and that whatever the outcomes and whatnot line up as well. That is actively being worked on, and hopefully very soon, that will be available to be able to go from one to the other. It makes sense. It’s good practice and we need those nurses.

BEN JESSOME: I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask a couple of questions related to skilled trades and the active and pending demand for the skilled trades. When I look at the forecast from this year versus the estimate for the upcoming year, I noted a slight decrease in the Nova Scotia Community College budget.

I’m curious if the minister can weigh in on his appreciation for the number of jobs and the different types of jobs that would be associated with building houses. We just approved 22,000 new units in Halifax. Can the minister discuss why that budget would not be a larger item to include more seats that are in our skilled trades programs at the NSCC, for example?

BRIAN WONG: One of the wonderful things about NSCC is their ability to pivot very quickly when it’s needed. NSCC constantly looks at their programs and what the demand is and can adjust very quickly depending on what program it is.

One of the things about skilled trades is that there are a number of pathways to get there. If you want to work towards apprenticeship, we have youth apprenticeship, and it does fall under the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration but I do have some knowledge of this from working in the school system.

At age 15, you can get into a youth apprenticeship program and get skilled trades through there, or you could actually get hired by a company that has journeypersons within that company to move up in that direction, and always use NSCC or a private career college to do your course work in.

There are a number of different paths. NSCC is not the only one, but it is a vital one and it’s a big part of what we do. My hope is that programs will be aligned to try to match as best as possible what’s needed out there.

BEN JESSOME: Does the minister have anything that he might be able to table for the House by way of specific demand for the programs and what the projected demand would be? Again, given that there was just such a substantial housing announcement, presumably more of that type of fast-tracked activity is to come. I’m just curious as to what the observation of the need is going to be.

BRIAN WONG: I can’t give specific numbers. Those initiatives were just announced.

What I can tell you is that anytime that I’ve met with the construction sector, there is a demand for just about every trade out there. Not just for trades but for unskilled labour as well, to go onto worksites whether it’s commercial or residential. We have a very high demand for anybody within the skilled trades or construction sector in general.

BEN JESSOME: Perhaps through the Chair you can make some closing remarks and read your resolution. Thank you for your time, staff, and company.

THE CHAIR: Before we conclude the consideration of Estimates for tonight, I invite the minister to offer closing remarks and then read the department’s Estimate resolution.

BRIAN WONG: I do want to reiterate that I work with an incredible group of professionals. We are a new department. We’ve had a lot of challenges. We’ve moved three times and we have another one on the go. We’ve really come together as a team. We’re learning each other’s personalities. God bless them, they’ve all started to learn to deal with me.

They’ve put an awful lot of time into preparing these budget books, policy, trying to move Nova Scotia forward, and trying to figure out what our government priority is and priorities for our department going forward.

I can’t thank the Deputy Minister, Wanda, the team behind me, the team back at the Thompson Building, and the team back at the Maritime Centre. They have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours of work to prepare for not just this, but everything that’s going to move us forward. It’s with my deepest and sincerest appreciation.

THE CHAIR: Shall Resolution E1 stand?

Resolution E1 stands.

It is now 10:39 p.m. and the House is set to adjourn at 11:00 p.m. That concludes the Subcommittee’s consideration of Estimates for today. The Subcommittee will resume consideration when the House again resolves into a Committee of the Whole on Supply.

I ask you to please return to your seats in the Legislative Chamber. The Committee of the Whole House must rise and report before the House concludes its business for the day. Thank you. Meeting adjourned.

[The Subcommittee adjourned at 10:40 p.m.]