HALIFAX, TUESDAY, APRIL 5, 2022

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON SUPPLY

4:18 P.M.

CHAIR

Dave Ritcey

THE CHAIR: Order, please. The Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply will now come to order. It is now 4:18 p.m.

The subcommittee is meeting to consider the Estimates for the Department of Economic Development as outlined in Resolution E5.

Resolution E5 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $96,529,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Economic Development, pursuant to the Estimate.

According to the practice that has developed in this Legislature, the Opposition caucuses take turns asking questions for approximately one hour each. During a caucus’s turn, the members within a caucus may take turns examining the minister on the Estimate Resolution. Only the minister may answer questions. Caucuses are also expected to share time fairly with the Independent member.

To begin the examination, I now recognize the Official Opposition with two minutes remaining in his first hour.

The honourable member for Northside-Westmount.

FRED TILLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome back, minister. I guess we’re going to go back to loans, grants and things in my first two minutes.

Between grants and loans, can you please tell me the maximum level of COVID-19 support from the government that a small business could receive?

THE CHAIR: Order. The time for the Liberal caucus has elapsed. My apologies. They’ll be back, yes, absolutely. It’s now time for the NDP caucus. It’s now 4:22 p.m.

The honourable member for Dartmouth South.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon to the minister and staff. Thank you for being here and available to answer questions.

I know that last day there was a fair number of conversation and some of it may be repetitive, but maybe with a few different angles. I did want to start out asking some questions about Nova Scotia Loyal, of which I know there was some discussion.

Just to go back there, in the election platform, there was an estimate that the program would cost $26 million in the first year. Now I know the minister has said it’s coming, and we’ll see it. I respect that, but I’m curious because we can’t quite find a line.

How much is that program expected to cost this fiscal year and where do we see that in the budget?

THE CHAIR: The honourable Minister of Economic Development.

HON. SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the member for the question.

This did come up with a previous question. I can certainly assure the member that there is more than sufficient capacity to roll out Nova Scotia Loyal as part of this fiscal year. That investment is nowhere in the magnitude of the figure that was just quoted.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you. Just as a follow-up, I want to ask: Where does that capacity exist in the budget?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: The current budget as presented includes the capacity for the development of the program.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’m not trying to be difficult, but the point of this process is to ask about the budget documents we have presented and then to get more granular. Is it in operating costs? Is it in grants and contributions? I just want to understand. We see the money that has come to the department. This has gone through the Department of Finance and Treasury Board. Where will the money for this program come from in the budget documents that we have before us? What is the line item, or line items, where that investment will come from?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: You will find within our budget, line items for both professional services and discretionary items, and the commitments can be covered within those categories.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you very much for that answer. Are there department staff who are currently assigned to this project specifically, or is it happening as part of other staff’s normal work? Is there an approximate FTE number we could see allocated to that? Any clarity around the ways in which the staff complement is working on this project would be helpful.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: This project - the development of Nova Scotia Loyal - involves a number of personnel within the department. There is no one person for whom this is their sole and only file. Frankly, the initiative is significantly important that we are pulling in resources across the department. Of course, a reminder that this is a relatively small department in terms of FTEs, with 28.5 FTEs, but very, very high-level producing folks who are working on this as well.

We have worked across departments, certainly with staff from the Department of Agriculture, the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture, the Department of Finance and Treasury Board, and the Department of Intergovernmental Affairs. They have all had a part and continue to have a role in the development of this program.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: As a discretionary item, which is where we found it in the budget, I’m wondering if there are any agencies contracted to work on the program outside of government. I’m pleased to hear that folks are being drawn in from the Department of Agriculture and other places. Are there any contractors or other folks we might see when Volume 3 comes out who are working on this?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: We do have a partner that is providing some project management support, particularly in the field of behavioural insights - that is Davis Pier.

Moving forward, we do anticipate that we will be seeking external-to-government assistance with the marketing of the program.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you for that answer, minister. The Premier, when discussing this in the election, mentioned a Shopify report on loyalty programs. That was sort of the only thing we heard by way of data. I’m interested to hear that you’ve engaged Davis Pier around behavioural insights.

[4:30 p.m.]

I’m wondering if you could share what some of those are, or some studies or information that is guiding the decision, first of all, to establish a loyalty point program, and then how that will be designed.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: To the member, this is a program in development, so I’m equally not trying to be difficult in terms of not providing a host of the sources of research that may have been looked at to date. I certainly can assure you that within the project development is a commitment to ensuring that we deliver a program that meets people where they are.

In reference to a question in the first hours of Budget Estimates, for instance, the question was posed whether this program would be meaningful and apply to those from more income sectors. The answer is that it will, and that is a particular commitment. Though we often use farmers’ markets as a very strong and meaningful interface for the purchase of local goods, we know that not everyone shops at a farmers’ market.

So again, looking across the diversity of Nova Scotia in terms of socio-economic demographics or geography, we have to ensure that this is a program that can be effective for someone who is doing their shopping at a large chain store or at the farmers’ market, and is adaptable to as many different types of vending as possible.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you. I’ll let the minister finish her thought in just a second.

I guess I’m struggling to understand a lot of things today, but I struggle to understand a little bit why any of that would be proprietary, if the idea is to get Nova Scotians on board. I represent a constituency that is deeply in favour of local products and food and a lot of independent small local businesses, so it would certainly like to understand and contribute to the programs. I’m hopeful that there will be information shared. I guess I don’t see the political risk, but I will wait until the appropriate time.

Just to continue on from there, there have been similar types of programs over the years. Taste of Nova Scotia and the Department of Agriculture launched Get Your Hands on Local. That was in 2020, and there was a brand logo and a marketing strategy. The Nova Scotia Seafood Quality Program has similar brand assets for accredited seafood products in our export markets.

I guess I’m just wondering - because the minister did say that there is coordination happening between the departments - is there an attempt to also coordinate these kinds of Buy Local brand loyalty projects generally, or will they continue to exist in a more siloed way?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Frankly, there has not been anything similar to this program. Yes, as you mentioned, there has been branding and there has been marketing under various themes to highlight Nova Scotian seafood, Nova Scotian fruit and vegetables from the agriculture sector, so forth and so on. These have been largely marketing based, and there have been various approaches taken - the commercials that pull at our heartstrings or make us laugh, and hopefully make us remember.

However this is taking things to another level by combining both a strong marketing campaign and a campaign that is designed to identify the many options of locally-made products, locally-grown products that already exist in the marketplace, to better flag them for the consumers.

Ultimately to your question, there will be a coordination. One of the shortfalls of previous programs - and I’m respectful of those efforts which have achieved various levels of success, but they’ve tended to all have a slightly different visible brand. We want this to be very identifiable for folks. Again, the item that I was going to add to your last question, this is about achieving a goal of a 10 per cent shift in our purchasing.

Tied to that as well, this is a call to action. This is a campaign to excite and energize and inspire both our producers and our consumers. But yes, absolutely, there will be a shared branded look across the relevant government departments.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: It sounds like the goal is 10 per cent of spending away from imports to local. I think we could call this some form of an import replacement strategy, something our caucus has been pushing a long time for, which is great. Back to my previous line of questioning, was there analysis done on other kinds of import replacement strategies? Given that this rewards program seems quite innovative but also maybe unproven, are there existing strategies?

I know that people have put forward strategies for import replacement, specifically around food based on procurement. We’ve put forward some of those strategies. I’m wondering if we’ve looked at any of that. The New Democratic Party has also been calling for a universal school food program for a long time now, which would have that procurement piece as part of its hallmark. Not only would it be school food, but it would be local school food, to the extent practicable.

I’m wondering whether this is something that was looked at. Hopefully it’s something that will still be considered, but just how the decision was made to do this particular points program to achieve that aim.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: This was a plank of our election platform as you have noted, so in that sense it was developed independent of the considerations of which you’ve inquired. That said, local procurement becomes a connective part of this initiative, i.e., if we are encouraging individual Nova Scotian consumers to use their buying power, I believe we are obligated as government to review our own procurement policies

As you have noted, schools and the education budget, in terms of school food, is definitely an area where much more can be achieved. There are other sectors, as well, outside of the things that we will be able to tie into the Nova Scotia Loyal Program in terms of buying goods.

Frankly when Nova Scotians decide to staycation and move around our province and have their getaways here, that too is a form of buying local. Will that be part of the point program? Very unlikely because we do have to finalize a list of the products that will be included. Overall, as I say, Nova Scotia Loyal is bigger than the points program.

I would also say that I respectfully disagree with the idea that this is unproven. While I would certainly acknowledge that it is a different model than President’s Choice points, it does indeed lead to a little more of a complex field in terms of the relationship between vendor and the source of the rewards. For example, we hope to involve many different vendors across the province from the roadside farmers’ market or community farmers’ market to the grocery stores.

We know that when you use a loyalty card at an existing retailer for instance, you generally redeem those points at that same store from that same business. That is definitely a divergence and has created a challenge.

We have looked to best practices largely within Canada in terms of how various rewards programs are working and that has helped to inform our work. I would argue that it is not at all unproven. At the same time, the particular angle that we are taking is quite innovative.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: One of the biggest criticisms in point programs is that they harvest a lot of data. That’s why grocery stores and corporations use them to find out about consumer spending patterns. I’m wondering if your office has consulted the Information and Privacy Commissioner, or made specific plans, about how to protect people’s personal information?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Thank you again for the question. To this point, we have not taken the program for the review of the Information and Privacy Commissioner, but we will to ensure that we are being mindful of our obligation as government for the privacy of our citizens.

We do have a different objective. You are absolutely right that the points and loyalty cards used by various corporations are increasingly oriented to collecting data that helps them further achieve greater sales or whatever their particular objectives would be. While certainly our objective is to increase the purchase of locally grown, made, or substantially produced goods, we aren’t a corporation and we really aren’t coming at this in quite that same way.

[4:45 p.m.]

At the same time, we will wish to respectfully and properly be able to collect a certain level of data because therein we will be able to properly assess how the initiative will be working. We’ll be able to assess the return on investments made in Nova Scotia Loyal. But I would just assure you that that check-in with the privacy commissioner will take place.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Moving on, your mandate letter included, “Within the first six months of your mandate, review alternative investment and attraction mechanisms and structures that will support our community and deliver the most efficient and accountable format for economic development in our province.”

I’m wondering if the minister can give me a sense of what alternative investment and attraction mechanisms and structures have been reviewed.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: We have in the delivery of this mandate item sort of flipped the who’s on first or what comes first in that we have - as part of a broader collective mandate across government to review all of our agencies, boards, and Crown corporations. In looking within the Department of Economic Development under which we have three Crowns and Invest Nova Scotia as an additional board, so many of the deliverables, so many of those tools and mechanisms are offered and operated under the Crowns.

The decision was made and shared with the Premier’s Office, who were in agreement on this approach forward, to look substantially and progress substantially within the Crown review and then move into the review of the mechanisms.

The review of the mechanisms has now begun. The Crown review is well under way. Because in both cases it’s under way, I can’t speak to the outcomes at this point. What I can say is that the commitment here was to look at the effectiveness, to ensure efficiency, and that ultimately results being delivered in the best possible way for the people of Nova Scotia and for our economy.

We recognize that the world is an ever-changing place. It doesn’t mean that we may find a tool in the tool box that is bad. It’s not bad or good. It may be that some of the mechanisms are slightly dated, that we need to be responsive to current opportunities that we need to fine tune.

You’ll have seen already that as part of that review, our government made the decision to make the Innovation Rebate Program, for instance, an ongoing and permanent program. In the past, there were three separate pilot projects which frankly delivered very, very good results in terms of the outcomes of increased employment, heightened sales, and businesses that are ultimately more sustainable.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I want to move on and ask about internet a bit. The PC government, according to the election platform, again, said that they would subsidize the cost of installation of satellite for anyone who doesn’t have a connection by 2022. Develop Nova Scotia expected this number to be in the range of 23,000 homes and businesses yet to be connected, and the cost of that would be $13.7 million.

From a FOIPOP, we understand that in October, in a meeting with the Premier, Develop estimated that 4,500 homes and businesses would still be underserved by 2023-24. I’m wondering if that’s still accurate. Are we still going to have almost 5,000 homes in the province underserved in 2023-24? How many would be in that position? How many would be getting subsidies? I’m essentially looking for an update.

Included in that, I think a lot of folks in rural Nova Scotia who I have been speaking to went ahead and bought services like Starlink on their own because in 2022, internet is not an option for most of us. Would those subsidies be retroactive to people who did that?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: There are a few things to parse out in regard to this one. As an MLA for a rural constituency, I don’t have to go very far or actually put on my minister’s hat to know that for those Nova Scotians who are unserved or underserved at this moment, the connection to reliable internet cannot happen quickly enough.

That said, the initiative undertaken - the internet for Nova Scotia initiative under the work of Develop Nova Scotia - has shown that it has been very successful. In spite of a lot of challenges related to the pandemic - supply issues, manpower issues - they have managed to continue to be on time and on budget. More than that I really feel the entire team at Develop Nova Scotia should be commended for navigating a somewhat ever-shifting set of sands.

When a particular project would meet an obstacle that might cause a delay, there was an ability to shift, to move ahead another area of the province - all of those opportunities, any time, to accelerate. Now, when someone learns that their community, and I could name a number again in my own constituency - when you learn that you are expecting to be connected by Spring 2022, and now you are shifted by three months in the wrong direction from your point of view and perspective, that is disappointing. That is another reality of these shifting sands.

Nonetheless, as of the end of March, we have 87 per cent connectivity across the province. You are correct - the numbers I have are not 4,500 but 4,300 homes that currently lie outside the agreements that we have as of this moment. But the work with pre-approved service providers continues to narrow these gaps so that alongside municipally led internet projects, we can see the way forward to pretty much 99 per cent of Nova Scotians.

To be clear, the goal is 100 per cent. To that end, late in the fiscal year, an additional allocation was made to the Nova Scotia Internet Trust of $8.5 million. That’s a figure that was arrived upon based on those who would be waiting longer, and in the belief of our government to deliver on our election commitment that there will be a satellite option. The details of that are being finalized at this very moment. I very much look forward to sharing more detail soon.

You are correct that in the meantime, there are Nova Scotians who have made the choice to order satellite internet for themselves. I think I had been elected roughly two weeks when I heard from someone in North River, Lunenburg County, who said they had ordered satellite, and my first thought was panic. She’s misunderstood, oh my goodness. She’s ordered this and she may be thinking she’s going to get a rebate, and this is money out of her household budget.

I reached out to her very quickly, and in fact she wasn’t mistaken. She had done the math, and for that particular individual the difference between travelling half an hour - I don’t know how many kilometres, probably 40 kilometres - to a place of work or to be able to take advantage of opportunities to work from home through the speed that she was able to get, it happened to be the Starlink service so she made that investment.

I realize that not all Nova Scotians might be in the position at any given moment to make that kind of investment. Also we as a government recognize that even with connectivity, even with fibre in communities, there are those for whom the monthly fees associated with connectivity are also an issue. So we’re looking to other departments to continue to support all Nova Scotians who wish to be connected being so connected.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I don’t think anyone’s making a mistake when they sign up for internet and pay for it out of pocket. I think that they are paying to access an essential service that they should have had access to, based on promises of past and current governments. I would urge the department and Develop Nova Scotia to look at that, because the pace is slower than it should be.

Internet is not an option and if your choice is an internet speed that allows you to work or one that doesn’t, similar with schools - so much of school now has an online or internet component. I don’t think rural Nova Scotians are making a mistake when they sign up for internet. I think they’re doing what they need to do. To that end, I’m glad to see the minister raise the issue of affordability. This is a conversation that I’ve been having with the staff at Develop Nova Scotia for a good four or five years now.

By the way, I would echo the minister’s comments that there’s an outstanding team there who have worked extraordinarily hard on this project and who have been extraordinarily responsive and wonderful, honestly, to work with. Kudos to them. I’m sure they’re in there watching with you, but they would acknowledge that we’ve been having this conversation about affordability.

Of course that conversation about affordability is much more salient now than it was six months ago or a year ago, or three years ago, as the costs for everything are rising. Part of the mandate of this project is affordable internet, but that isn’t particularly described. As we’ve been saying this whole session, what’s affordable to one of us might not be affordable to another.

We saw a federal announcement today around affordable internet for low-income Canadians. I have not yet had a chance to understand how many households that will cover. Here in Nova Scotia there’s a project called GEO, or Get Everyone Online, which is working to ensure that everyone has access to internet. It was really crucial for lots of kids during the pandemic who didn’t have internet access, and despite our entreaties to government around folks in public housing and low-income families, just couldn’t find a place that that could live.

I just wonder whether the minister feels that affordable internet access is a basic necessity in 2022 in Nova Scotia.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Not to be too cute by half, but it’s really not what the minister feels - it’s what Nova Scotians feel. In our modern world, and this was amply highlighted during these last couple of years of the pandemic - as I am sure you and I would agree - connectivity is important. It is important economically; one might even say essential economically. It is also deeply important - perhaps essential - in terms of sociability, to protect people against isolation.

Again, speaking to my own status and background as a rural MLA, no more in terms of geographic isolation, I can see it in those communities. We know that people can also live in major centres and nonetheless feel isolated. This is one way to address this.

I would also echo the value of the Geo Nova Scotia program and note that our government has supported that program through the Department of Community Services, and I see that as an ongoing relationship, where we will examine additional opportunities.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I look forward to seeing how all of that rolls out. I want to come back to some comments from the questioning yesterday. I was tuning in and I think I heard the minister say that there wasn’t really any more support for small businesses, from a COVID-19 perspective, but that the government could help businesses find efficiencies and innovations.

I just want to check if that is accurate. Is there really nothing in this budget to continue to assist small businesses that are struggling to recover from COVID-19, having trouble accessing financing, just barely staying afloat, dealing with rising costs? Is there nothing in here other than support for efficiencies and innovations?

[5:00 p.m.]

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: To the member, no, that is not accurate. At no point would I have communicated such a statement. Instead, what was stated in opening remarks and in response to a number of questions is that our government - myself as a minister, and senior staff with the Department of Economic Development - will continue to engage in open and frank conversations and discussions with business. When business would speak to an area, when they identify areas of needed support all these things will be considered.

On one hand, we have been peppered with questions about economic recovery and post-pandemic recovery. I do believe we are in the early stages of a recovery. This is shown in the very fact that many restrictions have been lifted and this has brought a fairly robust return to sectors that were greatly impacted by those restrictions. I’m thinking of the food service/restaurant trade, the retail trade. We very much hope that we will look forward to a very robust tourist season this year.

Additionally, investments that have been undertaken recently, in terms of consumer confidence, the feedback I’m getting from business is: Help us to make those who are still feeling anxious, to get them back out there. That’s a delicate dance to perform because we do know that COVID-19 is very much in all of our communities. So we waited, and worked with Public Health.

I can honestly say a consumer confidence campaign was ready in October - readied, pulled back, readied again, and pulled back, because it was not appropriate messaging. We did not want to be operating counter to the very effective measures coming out from Public Health that served our citizens and also our economy so well as we did not take the nosedive, the depth of depression of economic activity - not a depression, lest I be misquoted - that other provinces have endured. But when in consultation with Public Health we got the go ahead, when we knew that restrictions were being lifted last month, we have rolled out a competence campaign through various media sources.

However, even then, to provide appropriate balance, we have very purposely tied that campaign to run alongside a campaign that reminds Nova Scotians that they do have the tools to get back out there and reminds them that they deserve to get back out there. It is our efforts that have gotten us this far, and they know what they have to do to keep themselves and their family safe.

Yes, we can always assist. All businesses can be made more sustainable, can look to innovation, can look to efficiencies to becomes more profitable. That remains a very solid avenue to assist businesses of many sizes, but it is not at all the only route.

The other thing that I would mention is that in meetings with businesspeople for these past seven months - in-person and virtual - the number one thing that I have heard again and again in terms of the single area of challenge has been relating to labour force. This has spanned very skilled and technical positions to entry level jobs in some cases. Certainly, our government has undertaken major initiatives in that regard. That, too, is a direct response to the request from business in terms of what they need to succeed.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I only have about 15 minutes, and I have a bunch more questions, so I’ll move on.

There are a number of Crown corporations as the minister mentioned, and we won’t get to all of them. I do want to ask about NSBI, which administers the Innovation Rebate Program. One of the questions we have is how that Innovation Rebate Program interacts with EGCCRA and with the Lahey review.

The Forestry Innovation Rebate Program was intended for projects that align with the Lahey review. We know that in 2020-21, the rebated funding went to capital upgrades for pellet operations that supply local, national, and international markets, so exporting our wood for fuel, which many would argue are not supporting sustainable forestry.

How has and will NSBI ensure that innovation rebate fund is administered in alignment with EGCCRA and with the Lahey review?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I find myself longing for being in the same room with everyone last evening, but we will persevere on this platform.

In answer to the member’s question, the IRP actually is probably the top-of-the-deck in terms of its alignment with the goals of EGCCRA, and our commitments under the Lahey Report. There were three pilots that have now been brought together under one permanent program as IRP.

As part of the Forestry Innovation Rebate Program, there was a consultation that would take place in relation to applications, where staff of then-DNR were consulted to ensure that the projects were considered to be in alignment with those goals.

In terms of the now permanent and ongoing Innovation Rebate Program, the guidelines have been updated to maximize the validity of this program in terms of incenting Nova Scotia businesses to undertake work to green their waste streams and to invest in more sustainable processes. Those might be processes that require less energy than current processes.

Critically, reducing greenhouse gas emissions is actually among the eligible criteria for submissions under the Innovation Rebate Program. It is significant that, once again, NSBI consulted with the Department of Environment and Climate Change on these new guidelines.

[5:15 p.m.]

Recognizing that this is a very clear aspect of my mandate letter deliverables, but equally, as is very often the case, the challenges that we face as a population and as a world are the source of opportunities in the business community. Whether it is a product or service that directly addresses those needs, or the greening of businesses in Nova Scotia, those are major commitments under our government, and the folks at NSBI are absolutely in lockstep with the department in that regard.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you. The minister mentioned a just transition in her opening and also pointed to labour force issues as being among the most salient in the sector. Hopefully I’ll get a few questions in here before my time is up.

Can the minister outline how a just transition is reflected in the programming and scope of the current budget? Concurrent with that, a lot of those labour force issues are also related to wages. Is part of the way that a just transition is being looked at, if it is being looked at, addressing wages? Is the Better Pay Cheque Guarantee a part of that? We’re just trying to understand the plan.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: As part of that just transition, there is a relationship certainly between this department and the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration. It is a marriage, if you like, of identifying current and future labour needs and then offering the opportunities for people to retrain or upskill as needed.

Again, it has been brought home to me on many, many occasions looking at the same issue of labour needs, and in some sectors they will substitute those words and use the word “talent”. Those jurisdictions in the world that are able to deliver the talent, the labour force, will have a huge advantage going forward, and that is absolutely a major part of this government’s plan.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I just want to come back to the notion of a just transition. We are in a climate crisis. We know that traditionally so much of our GDP, I guess, has been based on extractive industries. We are moving away from that - we are getting off coal, we are hopefully implementing ecological forestry. We are taking a different and necessary approach, we hope, in the province.

The question is, how do we do that in a just way? How are communities, particularly traditional resource communities and workforce, centred in that project? What is the plan? What is the plan to transition workers? Specifically, has the department met with labour, municipalities, with First Nations - Mi’kmaw communities and others - around what this new transition looks like?

I understand this is something that bridges the minister’s department and the Department of Labour, Skills and Immigration, so those questions will also go to the minister across the table later, I’m sure. I’m curious though, since the minister did raise the notion of a just transition: what is the work happening there in this department?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Basically what we will continue to do is have those honest and open conversations - in this case with those sectors of our economy that you characterized as extractive industries. Coming from rural Nova Scotia, I think of them as resource-based industries, but more especially I think of them as foresters, as fishers, as miners. It will be working with those communities that we will be able to plot the way forward. I think to the forestry industry and the goals of the Lahey report, I have told many people that a small woodlot owner in Nova Scotia, by and large, lives and breathes the tenets of biodiversity.

That may be somebody who actually does not have to transition out of an industry but transition into a different way of doing things, or new markets for the products that they are able to harvest. It’s essential that we have those relationships and those conversations. That we start to understand what skills exist and where there are alignments between current skills in industries that may be changing or waning or no longer serving our planet or overall social welfare - but they have skills that can be used, and it will be up to us to identify our needs and to match people.

As far as the Department of Economic Development, you’re absolutely right. This is something that definitely crosses departments, but not simply to Labour, Skills and Immigration, either. We are constantly in conversation and communication with the Department of Natural Resources and Renewables, with Fisheries and Aquaculture, with Environment and Climate Change, so that we can take a very comprehensive approach to this issue.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thanks. I think that’s all the time I have. Thank you so much to the minister and the department for your answers this evening. I’ll hand it over to my colleague here.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Northside-Westmount.

FRED TILLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Minister, we’re going to skip the previous question I had asked you and go to Nova Scotia Loyal.

What consultations have been had on this program, specifically with the business community - CFIB, Chambers, partnerships, RENs. Can you tell me what consultations have happened?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: There has been a great deal of consultation that has taken place to date. Some of it is within government, or in terms of the Department of Economic Development, arm’s length from our department. By that, I mean the Department of Agriculture representatives have spoken with their sector and communities, and similarly the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

We have consulted - and I would say in a somewhat preliminary way - with the RENs. They are certainly aware of the goals of this program and are quite excited by it, I would say. Without solicitation, we had a number of sectoral organizations reach out. We were in government only a number of weeks when the Canadian Manufacturers’ Association reached out. That’s kind of beyond the scope of the loyalty incentive program, but they were very interested, very keen, to be a part of a movement that would help to recognize in part just the diversity of production that takes place in Nova Scotia.

As we begin the early stages of rolling out this program, there will be more consultation. There will essentially be what I’d call a pilot stage wherein we’ll be collecting a great deal of data, again with the overall goal to have the best possible, most effective and impactful program to deliver.

FRED TILLEY: That’s just as I suspected. There’s no direct consultation with the organizations that support business, that work with businesses on a daily basis, and will consult as we roll out. We don’t even know if they really wanted a program like this. But I’m going to move on in the interest of time.

Minister, how would you measure success of the Nova Scotia Loyal Program?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: It is not lost on me that every time the honourable member - or the member - wants to make a comment and move on, it means that he wishes to say something and not provide the opportunity to respond. But in the interest of time, I too will move on to this question.

There are a number of benchmarks that come into play in terms of measuring the success of Nova Scotia Loyal. We have been very forthcoming that the goal of this program is to achieve a 10 per cent shift in consumer habits to locally grown or substantially produced, made, items. As we have developed this program, our economists have looked at a number of categories and they have created estimates in terms of the level of local consumption as of this time and therefore getting that important benchmark from which to measure any future growth.

Just as an example, if we look at agri-food beverages - this would be non-alcoholic beverages, and it would not include dairy which is a supply managed good and is otherwise categorized. We know as of this point in time that Nova Scotians consume $98 million in Nova Scotia-made beverages. We have the benchmark where, all things being equal, we would want to get that up around $110 million.

We are very invested, and we want to be able to assess our program and be able to know where it has worked, and if there are subsectors where it is, for whatever reason, more meaningful or less impactful, we want to be able to adjust this. This is not a program that’s being developed for a moment in time. We see it as something that will be ongoing, but we have made that directive of a 10 per cent shift.

[5:30 p.m.]

Additionally, the points program itself will provide us, without trying to improperly mine the data of our consumers - we will be able to obtain data through the program that will speak to the sales for which someone used a loyalty - you see me making a swipe gesture - for which a Nova Scotia Loyal card has been used.

FRED TILLEY: Minister, given the fact that inflation is at 5.7 per cent and pricing is going through the roof, you should have no trouble meeting your 10 per cent, based on dollars. I think a more appropriate measure might be on quantity, but I’ll leave that to you and the experts.

You opened the conversation there on the points card. Many retailers in the country are forgoing their points card systems. They are very costly to maintain, with privacy legislation, there are a lot of rules and regulations around those. Many of those retailers are actually consolidating. For instance, most people will carry an Air Miles card, most people will carry a President’s Choice card. Why do you think consumers want to carry another card?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: You’ve hit on a few things and I would like to try to address as many of them as possible. First, on the idea that we would misuse inflation to cook our own books on this growth, I have no interest in taking advantage of that situation. In fact, what I will acknowledge is that with rising inflation, it becomes even harder for people, perhaps, to make decisions that are not strictly based on price.

Getting back to our favourite fruit, blueberries, it comes down to if they can be shipped in from another part of the world and sold at a big box outlet for x. But for the Nova Scotia blueberries, which will always taste better but will cost x-plus something - we actually are coming at this at a time when we have, in a sense, encountered potentially a little more resistance to that.

All that said, I also know - and the pandemic period has doubled down on this - that Nova Scotians are themselves loyal. We do band together, we like to cheer for each other, and we like to support each other. Although this was very much a health care election that brought us into government, among those who wanted to talk about other issues, they were very interested in the idea of this program.

I have a heck of a lot of loyalty cards in my wallet, even more than those that you have answered, and I don’t even consider myself to be among the most devoted of people to those points cards, but we’re going to make this fun, feel-good, and meaningful. That is going to be an extraordinary combination, that is going to make a significant program for our economy.

FRED TILLEY: Certainly in no way was I insinuating that you would be intentionally cooking the books, but using dollars inadvertently will help you cook the books. I would go with quantity, if I were you - but anyway.

The next piece I want to talk about is still on the loyalty card. Again, I’m not sure why we would want to recreate that wheel, as a government. There are many partners we could partner with, and since there already is a PC card, I thought that maybe you might want to use that piece because people are used to using those points. Contrary to something you said earlier, they don’t all spend those points. The PC points are now used at Esso stations, they are also used at Shoppers Drug Mart, and they’re also used at Loblaws stores, so you could tie into those - Air Miles.

The only thing I can figure is maybe it doesn’t have the Premier’s picture on them, but to recreate a new program and whole new set of technologies just seems like a waste of taxpayer money.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: I never thought of having the Premier’s face on the card - thank you for that. That’s an idea we’ll take under consideration.

We have consulted with a number of businesses that currently use rewards cards very effectively, but we don’t want to tell Nova Scotians where to shop. We want this program to be as inclusive and impactful as possible for Nova Scotian consumers and for Nova Scotian businesses.

You raised before, briefly - and it was a point I overlooked, so I’m glad for the opportunity to come back to it. It was in terms of the costs to businesses and how particularly small businesses are looking at where they can save and might be even pulling back on some of their costs in relation to credit cards or loyalty cards or these types of things.

We also know that at a venue such as a community farmers’ market, there are certainly vendors who take advantage of applications such as SquareUp - where they can put the little widget in the bottom of their iPhone and take credit cards or debit transactions - but there are still many vendors who operate solely on cash. In some of the farmers’ market venues, notably those that operate outside in the weather, they don’t necessarily have an ideal situation to access wi-fi and other services of that nature. It’s essential to the design of this program that we find a way for both the consumer to access the program, but also for the vendors to be able to use it.

We have found out, as an example in our research, that when you scan an apple at most of the big box stores, an apple is an apple is an apple. There will be a way to count the piece of produce. Again, we have very much taken into consideration the volume, the value - not necessarily only the dollar cost so as again to have a fair and robust assessment.

When we deal with businesses and we consider applications for supportive businesses, we are looking for returns on investments, co-investments with government or otherwise. We hold ourselves to the absolute same standard. We want to be able to say that every dollar that goes into the Nova Scotia Loyal program, what comes out the other side. We are confident that these dollars will be well invested. We will work toward the goal of the 10 per cent shift. We’ll measure that shift in an absolutely fair and transparent process.

THE CHAIR: Before I recognize the member, let’s keep the questions directed and no unparliamentary comments about the Premier.

FRED TILLEY: I apologize for my unparliamentary comment. I would like to give the minister a little retail grocery lesson. I’ve spent many years working in the retail grocery industry. My entire family, wife and daughter both worked in the grocery industry. An apple is an apple is an apple is not actually true. Every apple has its own code. Every fruit, every vegetable have their own code, even blueberries. Those codes are the same across all retailers, so that mechanism is already there for you to track. There’s no issue with that, but that’s not my question.

My question is around the idea of baselines. You gave us one example of a baseline. I’m not going to ask you to go through them all in the interests of time, but if you could table a list of those baselines for Nova Scotia Loyal in the House, that would be wonderful. I’ll ask you if you could do that. That’s Part A.

Part B is around small businesses and costs. You mentioned a lot of organizations, from large retailers to small retailers, farmers’ markets, they’ll all be able to participate. Will you commit, as Minister of Economic Development, that there will be no cost on the backs of all of these businesses to participate in Nova Scotia Loyal?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Certainly, there will be no intended costs to our business partners. We are working very hard to design a program that is easy to participate in that will be of benefit to participating businesses and various vendors. In that sense, any costs would be incidental.

As regards the list, at the time of the launch of the program I will be happy to table that list. At this point, it is still in the scoping phase and would not be available at this time.

FRED TILLEY: Thank you, minister, for those answers. I appreciate your time. Thank you to the staff, and I’m now going to turn it over to my colleague.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Minister, I appreciate the opportunity to ask you a few questions. I know that you have a whole bunch of people around you who are supporting you, so welcome to all of you as well.

I’m going to be a little bit all over the map with some of my questions because I don’t have a lot of time. There are some things that I think about with the climate that we’re living in now and some of the important infrastructure for the island. I’m always bringing the Cape Breton side of things to most of the conversations.

I do want to start on energy. When I talk energy, I talk about not only about the new innovative things we’re looking when it comes to wind and solar and some of the newer technologies, but I’m also looking at our traditional resources. I’m really looking for your thoughts on where we stand. I’m more of a conversationalist when it comes to this stuff, so I won’t have really direct questions. I’ll be looking more for your own thoughts on things.

What I’m seeing, just based on what I have been involved with, is that there are opportunities of course on the green energy side. For myself, I was involved with it a lot when it came to the wind procurement, the solar program, the work with First Nations where we were retrofitting about 2,800 homes over the next 10 years. I also look at the traditional side because I was involved with those conversations around Guysborough when it came to the potential around natural gas - looking at the potential of our mining sector which employs thousands of Nova Scotians.

I guess my first question really would be: Where do you see our traditional resources base in the economic mix with this government? It is a balance. There is social licence that comes with many of these things as we transition. I’m just curious on your thoughts, because there are supply issues in the world now especially with gas.

There have been some conversations that I’ve followed in the media about some of these countries - everybody’s in the transition, but some of these natural resources are still needed in their energy mix. I’m curious on your thoughts and what your plans are around trying to support our traditional energy sector when it comes to economic development. That’s my first question.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Thank you to the honourable member for the question. As mainlanders, particularly on the South Shore, we do not have the particular history and traditions associated with the mining sector. I do come from an area of the province that has historically been very resource-industry dependent. I have grown up amongst these proud people - I think rightfully - in terms of the hard work that they have done.

When we face transitions in industries, I think we do our best job when we are sensitive to those proud traditions, which go deep into the very fabric and the heart of community. Certainly when we think of Cape Breton, among the resource industries, we acknowledge the history of mining.

[5:45 p.m.]

We do know that we have a goal of getting off coal and importantly, moving to 80 per cent renewables by 2030. It is absolutely essential that we work with the individuals and communities currently engaged in those industries, and work cooperatively. It’s not simply away to transition from coal, but it’s into what’s next so that we can both treat their skills as the assets that they are, and help them retain their personal pride and commitment to work that is very typical across Nova Scotia, particularly in those resource industries.

I definitely applaud the investments of the previous government in various green energy sources. I hope the day comes when we can truly tap the tides, the power of the tides in the Bay of Fundy. We continue to work on that as a province. We continue to increase capacity for energy from sources such as wind and solar.

With all of the wind, and you know it as well in Cape Breton as I know it on the South Shore - we have lots of it and not just at Province House. We are the Saudi Arabia of wind. We have to look at leveraging that asset to help us through this time of transition to something like green hydrogen.

It is essential that if we’re going to go into hydrogen, we don’t want it to be blue; we want it to be green. Therefore, the sources of turning water into wine - well, water into hydrogen - we need to ensure that we have sufficient green energy for the demands of that process.

I think that when it comes to Cape Breton Island - Nova Scotia as a whole, but Cape Breton Island in particular - there are many opportunities that could be found in and around green energy sources, particularly green hydrogen, but equally, battery technologies. We’re very fortunate in this province to have one of the world’s leading battery labs under Dr. Jeffery Dahn at Dalhousie University. We have to leverage that research work into as many opportunities, that lead to sustainable employment as part of this new world, as possible.

I am very optimistic of our ability to do that in a way that can be a broad-based impact across Nova Scotia. I will just also throw out the Verschuren Centre which is on a corner of the CBU campus, and the work that they continue to do in the bio-industrial economy and the opportunities that will come from the acceleration of start-up enterprises of research at the Verschuren.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I appreciate your answer. I would appreciate at some point having a longer conversation with you around some of my thoughts. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough, but it’s not just about coal in Cape Breton. We are in a situation right now where North America is really trying to get supply over to Europe. Countries have been asking for support. Unfortunately, with the devastation that’s happening over in Ukraine right now, there’s a big shift in the supply chain that you’re starting to see.

In Nova Scotia, particularly in some of the stuff I was involved with - and this is going to be a lead-in to my next question - our forestry product needs a home, as I said. Our mining resources - 6,000-plus families are involved with mining, whether it’s gold or what was coal at one point, not now but gold and copper and zinc.

There are lots of opportunities for us to not only look at green energy from the wind turbine and the windmill or the battery, to the actual elements in the ground that we need to actually get out of the ground in an environmentally sound way to help support some of that construction. I always say when people ask me about gold mines - there are 20 different metals in your cellphone, right? These are the things that we always kind of have thought about.

As I lead into that, it goes into infrastructure. This was something that you and I were kind of talking about as we left the Legislature last night. It’s not just a Cape Breton issue - it is a bigger issue in Cape Breton when it comes to the rail, but infrastructure itself. We have really three ports of opportunity that I’ve talked about in my time, which was the Halifax port, the Guysborough area - the Strait, that area - and the CBRM. All have port potential or in some capacities are using port now.

I’ll ask you kind of your thoughts around the port infrastructure that we have, what your plans are for it but also, I have to do this as a Cape Bretoner - just before we left government, we were really heavy into the conversation around the rail from Sydney to St. Peters. There were a number of studies that were being looked at, there were finalized numbers being that were being looked at for that infrastructure. Will you commit today to rebuilding the railway in Cape Breton?

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: To the honourable member, that was cheekier than you suggested as we left the Legislature last night. As the honourable member knows, the previous government, and continued through this government, has been paying $30,000 a month to retain the rail corridor referenced sometimes as the Cape Breton subdivision, to retain that potential connectivity.

The honourable member would know as well as I do that to say we are maintaining the corridor in terms of the geographic corridor - the tracks have not been removed but certainly not to suggest that we could bring a train down those same tracks any time soon.

Will I commit to rebuilding the railway? I will certainly commit to working with proponents in Cape Breton and across Nova Scotia. In terms of some opportunities that I have seen that have struck me as very viable plans that rely on the reactivation of that railway corridor, I would say it’s fair to say that we as a province do not want to see - if that railway line is reinvigorated, we don’t want to see it stopped at the edge of the mainland.

I will absolutely commit to working with the Cape Breton business community, in terms of some of what I think are very viable and excellent opportunities relating to that rail line and the Port of Sydney.

Lest I be beat to a pulp by the member for Eastern Shore, I will add to your list of ports. The Port of Sheet Harbour, which is a slightly different asset but an asset that is actually held by NSBI and which our government continues to work to see that asset better leveraged, in terms of opportunities for employment in industry in our province. Of course we have many smaller ports that serve different needs, but taking your point about ports of international interface for shipping, these are important opportunities for our province.

I would only add that I have watched with great interest as this past year cities, ports along the U.S. east coast really investing in infrastructure improvements, in expansions. I believe that although we may not see it in terms of traffic of this moment, that as things resume, as we come out of the pandemic and address some very real supply chain issues that were witnessed during that time, there is going to be sufficient opportunity for growth in shipping. Nova Scotia’s location on the east coast here, connected then to viable rail, would put us in a very good position to take advantage of that business.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: There really is going to be a lot of opportunity in that shift in the supply chain where we’re going to see jurisdictions across the water that are looking for new ways to get resources. It’s going to be very interesting to follow as we go, and I just think that from a province perspective, we have the infrastructure in place that Nova Scotia really could be one of those international leaders in helping to shift the resources that are necessary to the countries that need them. I’m sure we’ll all be watching closely.

I don’t know how much time I have left, Mr. Chair - I wish I came in a little earlier. One of the other pieces of infrastructure that’s important for the eastern part of Nova Scotia is highways. We’re seeing the work now done between New Glasgow and Antigonish. I can tell you as somebody who has driven that route for seven years, probably 40-plus times a year, it’s great to see that infrastructure. It matters a lot to the members of those communities who have advocated for years for it to happen, who tragically lost family members as a result of that stretch of highway.

We now have Antigonish to New Glasgow, but there was some conversation about Antigonish to the Canso Causeway, which would be the next section. That would probably be similar in distance, probably 35 to 40 kilometres of divided highway between Antigonish. That’s one of the biggest issues for many of our supply folks on the island. You either have Route 4 or Route 5, and then you’re just on two-lane roads until you hit that divided highway.

[6:00 p.m.]

Is there any talk or any thought - and I know you’re only early in your mandate - but that piece of corridor would be the logical next step, dividing from Antigonish to the Causeway.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: I must be honest that that issue - while it makes a great deal of sense to me, I would have to defer to the Minister of Public Works, who may have a better viewpoint. Certainly transportation of goods is essential - internally within the province or ultimately on route to destinations and markets outside of our province.

I must say that the conversations today have been much more dominated by considerations in and around the rail lines than the roadways in terms of economic development discussions.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Again, I don’t really have one particular theme with these questions. I never thought I was going to have the chance to ask a few, but here I am.

One of the other important topics I think for economic development is of course giving our First Nations as much opportunity to help promote and support entrepreneurship. Probably one of the proudest things that I was involved with - and a lot of work went into it with a lot of good staff in government - is when we signed the agreement where we would retrofit 2,800 homes in Mi’kmaw communities across the province. It was a $40-million investment. It was very significant to those communities, and we always said that we wanted those communities to become the entrepreneurs. We wanted to train, we wanted to ensure that all the opportunities that were possible were given to those communities.

I’d like your thoughts around how we bring in those communities, work with all 13 Mi’kmaw communities across Nova Scotia to help ensure that as much of that opportunity stays within those communities.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Thank you to the member for the question, because I think anytime that we think about the economy in our province generally, we have an opportunity and equally a responsibility to think about the province that we want to be. This is particularly true, I think, when you come through a time of major change or upheaval, such as has been the experience through the pandemic. I think it is the responsibility of government to take this moment in time.

Again, looking through a lens of inclusion and equity, how can I as minister help to ensure the opportunities of which we are speaking, and the acknowledgement that there is much opportunity for our province today and, as we move ahead into the future, how we can ensure that those opportunities are available to truly all Nova Scotians. We definitely equally, in having such a conversation, can point to communities that have been disadvantaged. Those would include African Nova Scotian communities, and the Indigenous communities, and racialized but also other marginalized communities.

Equally because you have asked about Indigenous communities in particular, I think about the area in the constituency that you represent in the Legislature. Among business leaders in Nova Scotia, there is no one I consider with higher regard than Chief Paul. I look to what he has accomplished at Membertou. I think that it is essential for us to meet people where they are at. It is something that, in these early months of the mandate, there just has not been sufficient time to have all of the meetings that I must have as minister, certainly communicate with the minister responsible for L’nu Affairs.

Again, getting to meet people where they’re at, those are conversations that have to take place directly with those communities. We need to understand their aspirations and what is meaningful to them, and better understand directly from them the assets that they hold that we can assist them and support them to leverage that will see them succeed, whether that’s socially or economically.

Those are, frankly, conversations that need to be undertaken. There is no time to waste, so I look forward to doing that as soon as possible. I am very mindful that as a white woman, I do not know their experience. I have read reports that have been authored by people in the Indigenous community, but I look forward to conversations directly with those communities about real ways that this government can support and empower them from an economic perspective.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Minister, I appreciate your answers. I’m going to pass it over, now, for the final 10 minutes of our time to the member for Cumberland North.

Thank you. I look forward to us having some conversations as we move forward. I appreciate your time.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Cumberland North.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: Thank you, minister. I have a couple of questions here. I’m wondering if you would be able to share with us a little bit about the Thriving Communities program that is being administered through Dalhousie and how communities might be able to apply for funding for that and for what types of projects.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Thank you to the member for the question. Yes, the Thriving Communities program involves funding to community led initiatives. It’s stimulus funding basically to kickstart or restart activity based on main streets and waterfronts. To date there has been support for projects in places like Inverness, Louisbourg, and Pictou.

[6:15 p.m.]

One of the things that I remember reading in relation to the Louisbourg project that just struck me is that, of course, it makes such great sense that they are in the process of moving or have moved the ticket kiosk for the Fortress of Louisbourg to the waterfront, to ensure you are not driving just that far out of the main community and purchasing your ticket elsewhere. In a sense it’s a small change, but I am absolutely sure an impactful change that will come from that.

This was a $5 million fund that was set-up as part of the overall COVID-19 support funding managed through the Dal fund. At this point I understand that there is a commitment of roughly $4 million of that $5 million, so there may well be another intake opportunity in the weeks to come. It is something that will be coming to my desk for consideration.

I would only add that if there are communities in your constituency that would be interested, it is about leveraging funds so it is money that is usually matched within the community. I would certainly be very happy to help connect you to further details in terms of any future application intake period.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: We have so many projects, either in the initial phases or partway through. Listening to you describe that program, I’m thinking about Pugwash. Pugwash has an estuary and a yacht club/marina project. Develop Nova Scotia did come up and meet with the commodore and a few others, and were quite interested in developing a waterfront there. We do have municipal funds and private funds as well as federal funds from ACOA, but currently no provincial funds for the project. I know Develop Nova Scotia had come up and met with them, but that was pre-COVID‑19. We haven’t been able to connect again since then.

That might be an opportunity to further help support that development project that’s currently going on. It will happen with or without provincial money, but I think it would be really great for the province to be at the table too for that great project in Pugwash. Thank you for that information, and I will share it with that community group, and maybe we’ll try to connect.

There are so many other projects I could ask about. One area that I think has great untapped economic potential is something that many other rural MLAs probably would agree with me on: the off-highway vehicle trail system. In Cumberland County, we have very large active off-highway vehicle trail committee. One of the challenges we have is that we don’t have trail connectivity, and that prevents us from printing maps and marketing our area for this industry.

One of the missing links is over the Trans-Canada Highway. The member for Cumberland South has very developed trails. We have very developed trails from Tidnish to, say, Tatamagouche, but we’re lacking that connectivity across the Trans-Canada Highway. I have been proposing a sidewalk or a bridge across the Trans-Canada Highway for two reasons. One is for the off-highway vehicle trail connection, which I think could bring millions of dollars not just to Cumberland County but to Nova Scotia.

The other reason is for accessibility. I realize this wouldn’t be under your department, but our hospital has not had walking access to our hospital since it was built 15 years ago. The main population of Amherst is 10,000, and the hospital - we love it, but it was built on the other side of the Trans-Canada Highway. We have people going in their scooters and walking - it’s just a miracle that no one has been killed.

I would love to have a bridge or some sort of tunnel under the highway. That off-highway vehicle trail connectivity would make such a difference because we could then market Cumberland County and Nova Scotia as a place to come with your four-wheelers and spend your money at our restaurants and hotels. I don’t know if the minister has any comments to that idea.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: To the member, I absolutely acknowledge the considerable value that is already proven but, again, I think it’s a situation where there is even greater potential for these networks for off-highway vehicles. I have seen it in my own constituency. I will also say that Her Worship Carolyn Bolivar-Getson, Mayor of the Municipality of the District of Lunenburg, is one of the strongest advocates for these corridors and the importance of safe connectivity that aligns these corridors and the economic activity that stems from these corridors.

Equally, I’ve seen first-hand how undesirable and, in fact, dangerous it can be when in the absence of a properly engineered for safety connection that - in situations where there is a need to cross another roadway, just how dangerous a situation can be left. People in the absence of a properly designed and executed connection - whether it’s a bridge or another intersection, people will make their own. We have seen tragic results in cases where people just start to adapt themselves.

So from an economic perspective, absolutely. There is a proven value and potential for growth in that. It’s a subset of tourism activity, really, and whether through this department or through CCTH - and there’s also an alignment with Public Works. You mentioned your hospital - we’ve seen active transportation corridors developed in various communities that address the kind of situation that you are describing, where there is a need to overpass or underpass an existing roadway. I’d be happy to speak with you more about that.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: I would just say that I am so excited to learn more and watch your Buy Local Program. I am very passionate about us improving our food security here in Nova Scotia for both the health and wellness of our people and, also, for our economy. I don’t know if the department has done a cost-benefit analysis of investment versus the outcome, but there are huge potential economic spinoffs just by us improving our local food supply, not just for food security but also economic benefits.

I’ll end with those comments. Thank you, minister.

THE CHAIR: I invite the minister to offer closing remarks.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be brief because this process hasn’t been. However, I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the team of people who gathered behind me last evening and those who happen to be sitting before me in this slightly different environment today. They are just a selection of the overall team that exists within the Department of Economic Development and our Crown corporations, our agencies, the various volunteer boards.

They are people who, in my experience of these first few months in government, have shown me that day after day they bring their best. I have often contemplated how I could ever help to share with the public at large - to release them from any false notions they may have about stereotypes of people working in certain environments. These folks are devoted, they work a long day. They wake up and are already thinking about this province, its opportunities, and solutions to its challenges as they put their legs in their pants in the mornings.

I have always built teams in my work prior to government based on what kind of person I desire to bring into a team. I found one here, and I think that that bodes very well when aligned with an overall government. More so for a business community in Nova Scotia, that - in spite of all the trials and tribulations and challenges of the last couple of years in particular - is still speaking to me with optimism, still speaking to me of opportunities, while even acknowledging the challenges they may face.

I’ve often said, with a little bit of a wry smile, optimism does not always come easily to a Bluenoser. In my hometown of Lunenburg, I’ve gone so far as to say that if you drink enough of the water, you become a terrible skeptic.

This is a major shift for Nova Scotia. It is, itself, an asset that we must leverage, and we must preserve, because optimism is also perishable, and we don’t want to lose this. I truly thank my extended team for their work and their engagement and their kindnesses to me in helping to bring me up to speed to this point, and I look forward to continuing to work with them.

THE CHAIR: Shall Resolution E5 stand?

Resolution E5 stands.

Thank you, minister, for your time today. We’re going to adjourn for an eight-minute break.

[6:27 p.m. The committee recessed.]

[6:36 p.m. The committee reconvened.]

THE CHAIR: Order, please. The Subcommittee on Supply will come back to order.

The subcommittee is meeting to consider the Estimates for the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, as outlined in Resolution E6.

E6 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $1,751,280,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, pursuant to the Estimate.

THE CHAIR: I now invite the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development to make opening remarks for up to one hour and if they wish to introduce their staff to the committee.

HON. BECKY DRUHAN: Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. It’s my pleasure to be here and to take questions about the Estimates of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

Before we begin questions, I want to speak to you about the department’s key priorities. I want to provide context and insight so you’re aware of our work and how we intend to enhance already strong public education systems and our early childhood and learning development. Nova Scotians can take pride in our education and child care systems, pride in where we are today, and pride in the work we are doing now and in the coming fiscal year to make these systems even better.

Before I begin, I would like to introduce the people in the room with me. Sara Halliday is the acting associate deputy minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. Melissa Knovick is our director of education, funding, and partnership. Sara and Melissa will assist me today in answering your questions. If there are any questions we cannot answer, we commit to providing you with the information in a timely manner.

First, I would like to speak to you about some highlights from our department’s 2022-23 budget. These highlights speak to the commitment of our government to make life more affordable for families and create conditions and opportunities for families and children to thrive in Nova Scotia.

Specifically I would like to mention the following: a $113.2 million investment in child care, which will allow us to lower fees for families, create more spaces, and enhance after school care, part of the federal-provincial agreements related to child care; $700,000 to provide more subsidies to help eligible families pay for licensed child care; $5.5 million more for our pre-Primary program to meet enrolment growth; $15 million more to continue implementing the recommendations from the Commission on Inclusive Education to create a more inclusive education system; $2.1 million to continue the new healthy schools grant for all public schools; $570,000 for more public education system settlement services, including English as an Additional Language teachers and interpretation and translation services; $175.3 million in the overall government budget to build and renovate schools across the province.

Additionally, we are meeting our commitment to grow skill trades in our province and to strengthen our workforce and our businesses by investing $750,000 more for skilled trades in school programs, including promotion efforts to double the number of students in the programs, as well as more supplies and resources for these centres. These are the types of investments that will benefit all Nova Scotians.

Top of mind for many is still the impact that COVID-19 has had on our students. I’d like to take a few minutes to speak about our back-to-school plan, the impact of COVID-19 on the education system, and how teachers, staff, students, families, and administrators have coped and, in many cases, excelled over the last year.

We know that the last two years have been tremendously challenging for everyone. The education sector is no different. But within this challenging environment, a lot of hard work has taken place to keep children in school; to keep our staff and students safe; and to ensure that learning and associated social, emotional, and physical development associated with in-person learning go ahead.

Our education system and its staff, students, and families have learned to shift as needed between in-person learning and at-home learning. Staff in the department, staff in the regions, and staff in the CSAP have learned to work closely with Public Health to ensure that the latest Public Health advice is being followed.

Our back-to-school plan has guided staff and students in a way that creates the right environment for learning in the middle of a pandemic. With Dr. Strang, his team, Nova Scotia Health Authority, the IWK Health Centre, and the IWK Pediatric Advisory Group table, we have kept our students in schools and learning for most of the school year.

For most students, in-person learning is the best learning, and Nova Scotia has a fantastic record for keeping our students in their schools. We learned during the pandemic about the importance of the supports students receive in the education system. These supports help students intellectually, emotionally, and socially. They help with their physical well-being. And while we shift to at-home learning if needed, it is not our preferred normal.

Learning from home, while necessary at times for COVID-19 reasons, has had different impact for different students. Experts tell us that the best place for children is in the classroom, and we agree. On that basis, our back-to-school plan has kept kids in school.

Thank you to our teachers, our students, our staff, families, and all of those people who helped ensure a successful school year in Nova Scotia. As we finish this school year, we will keep monitoring the impacts of COVID-19. We will keep working with Public Health and listening to Public Health as to what is best for our students and staff so that we can finish this year strong. I am confident in our work and confident in our approach.

Next, I’d like to provide a general overview of the department. The Department of Education and Early Childhood Development is responsible for the development and education of our young people from birth to high school graduation. To support that development, we want our schools to be welcoming and inclusive places that celebrate all abilities and support the well-being and achievement of every student.

I am pleased to say that Budget 2022-23 builds on the department’s work of ensuring that our children receive the education and support they need, particularly during this challenging time. This year’s budget for the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development is $1.75 billion. This represents an increased investment over last year of about $160 million, or 10 per cent.

My department’s budget reflects our commitment and investments in our early years and public education systems - investments that will make a real difference in the lives of children, students, and families.

We’ve allocated a total of $253 million this year for early learning and child care. This includes a $113 million investment in child care, all fully recoverable through our agreements with the federal government. It also includes a $700,000 increase to provide more subsidies to help eligible families pay for licensed child care and a $5.5-million increase to the pre-Primary program to meet enrolment growth. There is money for new child care spaces, especially in underserved areas of Nova Scotia.

We will also enhance wages and benefits for early childhood educators this year. We will continue to reduce fees for families, and we will continue to enhance before and after school care for our youngest learners.

This work is part of our five-year journey through the agreements to transform the delivery of child care. Our goal is to provide families with access to affordable, inclusive, and quality child care. As recently as April 1^st, we moved ahead with the 25 per cent fee reduction for parents accessing licensed, funded child care. In addition, parents will receive a cheque or credit from their centre reflecting the retroactive reduction from January to March.

[6:45 p.m.]

All parents who access child care through licensed, funded centres will have access to this fee reduction, regardless of household income. This represents a savings for parents of between $3 to $10.50 per day per child, based on the child’s age, or approximately $200 a month.

It is also important to note that the subsidy program remains in place for all licensed child care centres. We have more than 5,300 children in subsidized spaces, and with the 25 per cent fee reductions, the fees for 530 of those children is now zero dollars a day. I want to repeat that: parents and guardians of 530 children now have fully subsidized child care.

This is the first fee reduction on our way to achieving $10-a-day care on average for families by 2026. It is a major step towards making child care more affordable and more accessible for all parents.

The fee reduction is offered through licensed, funded centres, and I’m pleased to say that centres representing 99 per cent of child care spaces in the province have signed this year’s funding agreement. Ultimately, our vision is child care that cares for everyone: families, children, early childhood educators, and our operators. That’s why we took the time to listen to the child care sector and offer a 2022-23 funding agreement that provides sustainable funding, funding to support the reduction of parent fees, and a one-time grant to offset pressures.

We’ve also committed to creating a new Early Learning and Child Care Engagement Table to ensure that voices from the sector are heard as we move forward together to transform child care. To date, we have had a great response to the call for applications and look forward to its implementation.

We value those who work in child care. Our early childhood educators do amazing work, and it is time that they are fully compensated and fairly compensated. Work continues on Nova Scotia’s Excellence in Early Childhood Education workforce strategy, which will result in higher wages and benefits for early childhood educators. We are excited about this work and remain on track for Fall.

ECEs are in demand across the country. Wages and benefits are a critical part of attracting and retaining educators, and this is a top priority. Through the ECE workforce strategy, we have also awarded approximately $1.4 million in bursaries to over 250 full-time ECE diploma students and have fully funded over 400 seats in the accelerated ECE diploma program. The accelerated program allows those working in the sector to continue working while earning their ECE diploma.

Building our workforce will help us achieve our commitment of 1,500 new not-for-profit spaces this year, making child care more accessible across the province, most notably in underserved areas.

We also offer other supports to the child care centres. The pandemic has challenged us all, and that’s no different for child care centres. This year, we provided nearly $8 million of emergency funding relief to the child care sector to ensure centres maintain viability. All of our investments are needed, and all of them are creating opportunities for women and for families to return to the workforce because they have a safe place to put their children.

Our investments support the employment of thousands of ECEs working in regulated child care across the province. This is good news for the economy and for the workforce, part of our overall efforts to support this sector and the families who use these services.

Now I’d like to speak to you about our public education system from pre-Primary to Grade 12. Every day, almost 9,000 teachers, more than 5,000 administrators and support staff come together to support more than 121,000 students, from pre-Primary to Grade 12. These are students from a variety of backgrounds and experiences, from different socio-economic, cultural, religious, and familiar backgrounds.

We know the variety of these perspectives enrich our school communities, but we also realize with these varied experiences comes a need for a variety of supports. What we want to do -and what we are doing - is putting resources where they are needed so we can improve the learning experience of all students and the teaching conditions for our educators and the staff.

This year, the Province is investing an additional $15 million in new funding to hire additional teachers, education workers, specialists, and others for our classroom and our students. This new funding builds on inclusive education funding of the past four years and ensures that this year more teachers and more staff will be added to our school system.

Over the last four years, we have added more than 800 staff and this year’s hires mean that this number will grow. It means we are meeting our commitment in the Students First report from the Commission on Inclusive Education and funding of $75 million for inclusive education. It means more autism specialists, guidance counsellors, African Nova Scotian and Mi'kmaw student support workers, behaviour support specialists, child and youth care practitioners, and education assistants, to help children and families.

We are proud of our work and the impacts we are helping to make in people’s lives.

If I may, I’d like to read to you about one teacher who is making an impact and that is Candice Sylliboy in the Strait Regional Centre for Education. This is what Candice’s principal has to say about her work:

Candice Sylliboy is the Mi'kmaw language teacher at East Richmond Education Centre in St. Peters. Her teaching assignment includes the Mi'kmaw language, Grade 5 subjects, as well as junior high art. Candice is also the Grade 9 Mi'kmaw language teacher at Richmond Education Centre/Academy in Louisdale.

Candice is so much more than a classroom teacher. At the heart of Candice’s teaching practice is ensuring each student feels seen, respected, safe, accepted, and valued. She has established herself as a trusted adult who students feel comfortable talking to.

Candice is a passionate advocate for all students, but especially those who have traditionally felt unseen or marginalized. She constantly seeks supports, resources, and personnel who will enhance the educational, social, and personal lives of her students and support teachers in creating safe spaces for students. Candice is committed to speaking her truth and the truth of Mi'kmaw history. No matter how difficult the topic or subject, Candice will speak from the heart, knowing these are conversations that have to happen if true reconciliation is ever to take place.

Candice led students and staff in an emotional recognition of the first National Truth and Reconciliation Day. She helped us open our minds and hearts to the importance of this acknowledgement. She was also instrumental in the creation of our Peace and Friendship Garden that will serve as a permanent place to honour the children who never returned home from residential schools. The garden is our commitment to teaching and learning the truth about our past, about Indigenous history and to never let history repeat itself.

Thank you to Candice and thank you to all the leaders in our system who go above and beyond every day, to make a difference in the lives of our children.

Our funding is also going to SchoolsPlus and the programs that support students on their journey of well-being. We know that the pandemic has been challenging so our SchoolsPlus teams have worked together to ensure we are able to support our students as they deal with the mental health and other challenges of the pandemic. Our SchoolsPlus mental health clinicians are co-located in the schools. These staff - more than 15 in total around the province - work closely with RCEs, CSAP, the IWK Health Centre and Nova Scotia Health to ensure that we meet the needs of children, youth and families.

We are improving our use of technology to better serve people, including enhanced use of the tele-education platform. It provides confidential access to private counselling, interventions, meetings, including the delivery of schools counselling and the SchoolsPlus mental health programming and services. I will note that the schools have noted a decrease in wait time for specialized services and an improved continuity of services through the introduction of the tele-education platform.

I also want to speak to what we have learned during the pandemic, particularly about the benefit of outdoor learning. By necessity, we put a greater focus on outdoor learning during the pandemic, and we are seeing first-hand positive health and well-being benefits in our students. We’re hearing from staff and seeing on social media the positive impact of this change to our students and their teachers. Increased student engagement, physical activity, opportunities to build appreciation for nature, and opportunities for social and emotional development are just some of the benefits of outdoor learning that some of the educators have noted over the past two years.

My department is also investing in student health and well-being through our healthy schools grant. We are investing $2.1 million each year to fund programs and activities that support mental and physical health or cultural awareness. This is just a sampling of work under way to enhance health and well-being, to engage our students and help them remain connected to our schools.

There is so much work taking place in our Mi’kmaq Services branch, in our African Canadian Services Branch - our curriculum work with the Mi’kmaq and our anti-racism work. We realize there is more to be done, and we are committed to doing more.

We also realize that we need to keep assessing the data from report cards and provincial assistants and student well-being surveys.

As we move through this pandemic and eventually move to an endemic stage, we need to monitor its effects on our students and staff, and we need to take the necessary steps to ensure our students continue their journey of academic achievement and well-being.

We need to keep evaluating our work, implementing the inclusive education policy. We need to keep connecting with our stakeholders, staff, and students and families, to ensure we are delivering the best possible educational outcomes that we can.

We need to continue to support our 2SLGBTQ+ learners and our transgender and gender non-conforming students. We also need to continue to improve supports for students with diverse learning needs through our multi-tiered system of supports so we can provide students with the right support at the right time and the right intensity.

Now I would like to talk about the school capital plan. Schools are important places in our children’s lives. They are places where students are supported, where their well-being is nurtured, and where they can learn in an environment that fosters their success. Our province is in the middle of a transformative time when it comes to education infrastructure investment. We are building modern facilities designed to enhance the school experience for our students, teachers, and families, and make our communities stronger overall.

In 2018, Nova Scotia began releasing a five-year rolling capital plan for school projects. As recommended by the Auditor General, this approach provides a predictable long-term outcome for school construction and major renovations. We work closely with each region and the CSAP to determine what schools should be considered for renovation, upgrade, or new build.

RCEs and the CSAP provide a list of their capital priorities to the department, and the projects are evaluated on a variety of criteria, including enrolment and population pressures, geographical fairness, age and condition of current buildings, and available budget.

The 2020-2025 Nova Scotia School Capital Plan was released in February 2021, and it includes 23 projects across the province. In 2022-23, I want to highlight a few of our many projects under way. Some highlights include:

·         The redevelopment of Breton Education Centre in Cape Breton as part of a community hub which will include the school, a community health centre, and a long-term care facility;

·         The new Grade 9 to Grade 12 J.L. Ilsley High School, which was opened in September 2021 - this time, demolition of the previous school building is nearing completion to make way for new parking, parents’ drop-off and pick-up area, and a sports field;

·         Sports field and site clearing is complete for the new Springhill Elementary, which will consolidate two existing schools into a new pre-Primary to Grade 6 elementary school;

·         Construction is under way at École Pomquet, which is the new redevelopment of an existing Acadian school to add eight new classrooms;

·         The design and contract for a new pre-Primary to Grade 8 school for CSAP on the Halifax peninsula is expected to be awarded this Spring; and

·         Work is proceeding on St. Joseph’s-Alexander McKay Elementary School, which will result in a brand new school for students and families in Halifax’s north end.

[7:00 p.m.]

An important component of our school capital projects is supporting government’s legislated targets to achieve net zero emissions by 2050 and to reduce carbon emissions in government-owned buildings by 75 per cent by 2035. We know that approximately 90 per cent of carbon emissions in public education come from operating our buildings while the other 10 per cent comes from our transportation system.

To ensure our education infrastructure meets our present and our future needs, we are investing in building retrofits and energy efficiency upgrades to improve our facilities. This includes electrifying heating systems, replacing ventilation and building control systems, upgrading building insulation and improving lighting systems and building management initiatives.

At the design level, we are working with our school capital project partners to ensure that our projects reflect the design and sustainability principles that will best support our environmental goals. Additionally, we are investing in potential pilot projects and possible federal government funding that might allow us to move our school transportation system to more environmentally friendly options. While there is still a great deal of work to do to determine associated costs, benefits, and objectives for such projects, we are committed to exploring this opportunity to further reduce our carbon emissions.

Our goals for our public education infrastructure are big and moving new significant projects forward will not come without challenges. We know that the COVID-19 pandemic is impacting infrastructure developments throughout North America and our school capital projects are no exception. Additionally, as our province’s population continues to grow, we have to consider the demand pressures on our schools and be prepared to modify and to adapt.

Despite these challenges, we remain committed to delivering the best possible outcomes for our school communities. Working closely with our valued partners within the regions and across government, we will continue on our path of improving and strengthening our education system infrastructure to ensure that our school communities have the spaces and tools they need to build successful learning environments.

I hope I have provided a helpful, short overview of all the exciting work and some of the priorities of our department. Our work is broad, and the impact is large.

As I conclude my formal remarks, I want to take a moment to celebrate the incredible individuals who work at public education and early childhood development. I want to thank the staff, the students, parents, teachers, early childhood educators, operators, and leaders who provide quality learning and care to all our children and our students. The past few years have been challenging but people continue to dig deep and meet the needs of children and families in our schools and family learning system. Thank you for everything you do.

That concludes my formal remarks. Thank you.

THE CHAIR: Thank you, minister. According to the practice that has developed in this Legislature, the Opposition caucuses take turns asking questions for approximately one hour. During a caucus’ turn, the members within that caucus may take turns examining the minister on the Estimate Resolution. Only the minister may answer the questions. Caucuses are also expected to share time fairly with the Independent member.

To begin the examination, I now recognize the Official Opposition. Starting time is 7:04 p.m. - you’ll have your time.

The honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Okay, very good. Does that give me a full hour? Okay.

Good evening, good to see you again. To your staff, I know some of them behind that screen - hello to all of you. I know how hard you all work on behalf of not only the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development but our kids and our families across the province, so I hope all of you are well.

I look at this as more of a conversation than I do me coming at you with a million questions. I’ll have some more specifics when it comes to some of the infrastructure side. Some of my colleagues will probably come in. You’ll see a few of us jump in and out as they want to ask some local questions around their schools. For me, I’ll have a couple of different themes as we move forward.

I guess one of my main questions is now that we have been through a number of rounds of COVID‑19 in the school system where we have had to close and we have had to reopen, we’ve looked at it based on jurisdictions as well and we have had to close depending on the epidemiology on the ground in the communities across the province. How are you feeling and what are your next steps now as we move kind of into a new reality with COVID‑19, but also some of your thoughts around what’s taking place as we see what could be a sixth wave coming through the province?

BECKY DRUHAN: The question is timely and understandable for sure. COVID‑19 has been a real challenge. The students, the teachers, and the staff have done an incredible job throughout this being adaptable and working together to make sure that learning has been as little interrupted as possible.

As we move forward through COVID‑19, we know that it changes. We work closely and we will continue to work closely with Public Health to make sure that we are implementing the most up-to-date Public Health measures at any given time in our school system, and we will pivot as rapidly as we need to if and when that happens.

We’re really pleased and proud of the work that has been done so far to keep students in schools as much as they have been, and we’ll keep doing what we do in pressing forward.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I was asked the question earlier today by the media, and I think you may have been as well, when it comes to masking for our kids in school. I know some of the lifting of restrictions - there are people on both sides of the discussion, let me tell you. We all heard in our communities that some people feel masks should stay and some don’t think they should, and some for whatever reason think they never should have had them - I’m just curious about your thoughts around what the future looks like for masking in schools.

BECKY DRUHAN: I have been asked this question and similar questions throughout my tenure - what does the future look like? I wish I could say. I can’t predict what the pandemic is going to do, so I wouldn’t make any wagers on that. In terms of how we’ll handle it, we’re going to continue to work with Public Health and follow their advice with respect to any of the measures that we have in place in terms of schools.

Right now, in relation to masking, we have masks in place until the middle of April. We’re working closely with Public Health about what is going to transpire after that. As soon as we have that information, it will be shared with families. We know the earlier people can know what the future holds, the better they are able to prepare and manage expectations of their children. We also know that COVID‑19 is ever-evolving so we look to Public Health for guidance around what the future of masking holds and we’ll implement that with the diligence that we have to date.

In terms of what people’s responses are to masking, I think the member’s comments are reflective of the experience that I have had in talking to people. I have spoken to families, parents, and children who are so excited to have those masks come off. They want to see each others faces, they look forward to their children getting the opportunities to see their teachers speaking and the importance of that in language and social development. I’ve also spoken with other people who are scared of the masks coming off, anxious about it - and everything in between.

This pandemic has been challenging and it has affected us all in different ways. We completely understand all of those perspectives and what we do on a day-to-day basis will make these plans, and work with Public Health and follow their advice and recommendations to ensure we have the safest and best place in schools for our students.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you, minister, for that answer. I was going to ask about masking and what supports were there for families in the event that the mask mandate stays on, but I would be probably accurate in saying that the department would probably continue to support some of the resources that are put in place, so I’ll leave it there.

I guess one of the things I’ve said publicly already is around kind of the idea of contact tracing in the schools. It was something during certain waves of the pandemic that was important, taking that data and trying to determine what was in the best interests of certain families of schools within Nova Scotia. Do you feel that the reduction of data collection has made your decisions more difficult in trying to deal with the pandemic?

BECKY DRUHAN: I will go back to sort of the first question that wasn’t asked from the member, just to make sure that there’s a response on the record for that and that was in relation to ongoing supports around masks.

I do want to confirm that yes, we will continue to support students and families with masks. Now that masks are mandatory in schools, we are continuing to provide three-ply masks, as recommended by Public Health. There’s a supply that’s available to all of our students to access. We’ll continue to provide PPE support, as is necessary. As we move forward, envisioning a time when we transition away from masks being mandatory, we will continue to provide support and masks to our schools and our students, to support individual choice around that.

To the question that was asked around contact tracing in schools, in this regard as well we have followed Public Health’s advice and recommendations and continue to follow Public Health advice and recommendations around when contact tracing was done and when contact tracing was lifted. We’re going to continue to follow Public Health’s advice and if there is a change in any sort of recommendations around tracing within schools, we will absolutely implement that.

What we know right now, though, is that COVID-19 is everywhere, and we need to plan and respond and react, knowing that. The fact that we don’t have contact tracing in school currently hasn’t impacted my ability to make decisions. We continue to work with Public Health, and we are in regular contact with the regions to address operational questions or issues around operations. But the fact that contact tracing isn’t in place hasn’t impacted our ability to make decisions.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you for your response. Continuing on COVID-19, are you able to provide the numbers around teachers and staff in schools who may be out currently? Similar to health care - we know that there’s an approximate number of health care workers who are out either recovering from COVID-19 or who have been a close contact. Do you have those numbers for the school system?

[7:15 p.m.]

BECKY DRUHAN: We do have attendance data, but we don’t track reason-specific absences. (Interruption)

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Sorry, I have a tendency to jump in before people finish their answers - people in the department would know that too. I just thought I heard you say that you don’t have a regional breakdown, but you have the overall number that you can provide?

BECKY DRUHAN: Thank you for the question. No, my answer was that we don’t have a breakdown of the reasons for absences, not “regions.”

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: So just to confirm, right now the department is not tracking teacher or staff absences as a result of COVID-19, similar to the health care system?

BECKY DRUHAN: That’s correct.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: One of the primary reasons I asked was around substitutes and how we were doing in that situation. I read media reports of a shortage of substitutes, and I was trying to get a sense of how many are being utilized in the system now, across the spectrum. I thought that we did track in the department somewhat - to the best of our ability - the staff who would be out at any given time. I know the media may have reported on it before. I may ask that question again for you in the future, but I appreciate your answer now.

I guess my question comes to substitutes and the issue around teacher shortages in particular communities. I’m looking for your comments on how the department is addressing that, and what the next steps are going to be to try to encourage or get more people into the system.

BECKY DRUHAN: Thank you for the question. I think I have more clarity now with the question you were asking. We might have been at cross-purposes there.

If the question is around whether we have an understanding of what our teacher absences are in the system, the answer is yes, we do. Right now, we’re tracking around 10 to 12 per cent absences. We don’t track the reasons for those absences, but we do know what the absence roll-up is.

The second piece of that question relating to the substitute teachers in the system, our use of substitutes and how that’s working through the course of COVID-19. I will say that we absolutely recognize the value of supporting our substitute teacher pool and having a strong substitute teacher pool. They support unexpected absences from our teachers, they also support things like professional development and other activities.

I can say that the number of substitute teachers has actually not increased during the pandemic. What we’ve seen, though, is a trend of less willingness or interest from our existing substitute teachers to pick up assignments and take teaching assignments.

What do we do when we have absences? We utilize our current pool of substitutes. We’ve also worked with the NSTU and with universities locally to be able to deploy our B.Ed. students, when they are in their practicums, to do substitute teaching and to be compensated on that basis. That was a realty great collaboration with those groups and that has helped us as well to have additional resources to deploy into schools when we need those.

We’re working on this, and will continue to work on it. We have a committee with the NSTU that’s looking at teacher recruitment. One element of that is substitute teachers as well.

The last thing I would say is at those times when we really need to dig even deeper, we do have teachers within our system who don’t have classroom assignments. We access the use of those teachers and deploy them into classrooms when necessary. We have staff at our regional education centres also who are qualified as teachers, and we can use them as well.

All of the folks in the system have been incredibly resilient and adaptive, and we’ll keep using all the tools at hand.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you for that. That 10 per cent number - is that the average, year after year? If you are saying that 10 per cent of - I’m trying to remember the total number of teachers or staff. I know that’s a hard number to just actually put an exact number on.

Does that percentage represent a much larger jump than usual in the school system? Does that 10 per cent represent anything different than we would see in non-COVID-19 years or any other given time?

BECKY DRUHAN: I thank the honourable member for the question. That 10 to 12 per cent actually reflects the time since we’ve returned from the Winter break. That has been fairly stable since we’ve returned from the Winter break.

I don’t have at hand the numbers from years prior. Perhaps the honourable member may recollect them from his tenure here. I don’t have them at my fingertips, but I’ll endeavour to find that out and get back to him.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I appreciate that. I don’t remember the number to be honest, full disclosure. I guess it really ties into, and I guess around your thoughts too - there are reports that it’s not just the teachers and staff absences, but student absences. Student absences particularly in Cape Breton - which I have been following and my colleagues from Cape Breton Island would be following - what are your thoughts around the issue around absences? It is a concern for all of us. Your message was the same as mine and everybody else’s in the province: the best place for our kids is in school. That’s where they receive their best supports, both educationally and for the support services not only they can access, but their families.

What are your thoughts on the student absenteeism? Is it getting any better? How are you looking at addressing it? It’s a hard thing to address because parents are ultimately still making some decisions around COVID-19 and making those decisions based on individual family decisions. I’m just curious on your thoughts.

BECKY DRUHAN: Thanks to the member for the question. Yes, I am in full agreement. I think our attitude and position on this is the same, that the best place for students is absolutely in school and that’s where we want to see our students.

To that end, in terms of what we are seeing, we have actually seen reasonably stable attendance across the province since returning after the Winter break. There are pockets sometimes where we see lower attendance rates. When that happens, we work with the regions to really target the response because the reasons for those absences vary, and the response needs to vary accordingly.

Regions will reach out to families to find out what is driving the absences and find out what can be done to support students to return to school and to be in school. So what your response would be, for example, if people are staying home because they don’t feel well. We’re asking folks to stay home when they don’t feel well. As much as we’d like to see people in school, if they’re not feeling well then home is where they need to be, so that’s a positive thing.

If there are other reasons driving absences, then the regions reach out to find out what those are so we can tailor supports to encourage folks to get back into class.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We’ll take a break from the COVID-19-related school questions. We’ll get a little bit more into the early childhood education.

Congratulations on the work you are doing. I always used to say, it’s about the babies, right? The decisions of what we started - and you guys as a government are working on - have such a positive impact on children now, but I always think of the parent 10 years from now. This is multi-generational. This is going to mean a lot to a lot of families and communities across Nova Scotia, not only from a cost perspective but also from an access perspective as well.

[7:30 p.m.]

I don’t really have a lot of direct questions, it’s more of an opportunity for you and me to have a conversation about the sector itself. They were amazing during the pandemic. I think we did our best, and you did as well, to give them the credit they deserved. They looked after our kids, and we asked a lot of them, multiple times, throughout. So to all of our ECs and everybody who is listening to Estimates tonight on television or beyond, we always try out best to give credit to those amazing workers who look after our kids.

The deal itself is moving forward, that’s great. You have the fee structure that is actually starting a little early, which is awesome, so you are starting to see some of those reductions earlier than anticipated. Of course, the bigger issue for all of us was around this concern with the private operators. It’s something that we both have had to talk about in our times, during the deal, as we were working through it, and then of course, when you’re trying to implement the first portion of the reduction.

How is the relationship with the private operators? Do you feel like you’ve come to some clarity around some of the issues that they raised in the initial rollout of the plan in the early new year?

BECKY DRUHAN: Thanks to the member for the question. This is one of my favourite topics. It’s a torch that I am incredibly grateful to have been handed. It’s so historic, so important, and so foundational for improvements for Nova Scotia families. I completely agree with the honourable member: this is a multi-generational, hugely and vitally important step, not only for [Inaudible] but also for access. I’ll try not to go on and on for hours, although I happily would.

To come to the member’s question of how the relationship is with our private operators, I will say that in the work that I’ve done and do now, I value collaboration. I know that collaboration engagement is really how you arrive at the absolute best path forward.

We heard from the operators that they wanted to be engaged, and that they wanted to participate. I am really excited for the work that we’re going to do with the operators and have them at the table and really get their feedback.

In terms of how the relationship is, we’ve had really positive feedback about our approach and engagement. I think I would point to the recent funding agreement, so we tabled the annual funding agreement which includes not only ongoing, stable funding for the annual funding for our operators, but also a one-time grant to support their operational expenses and, as well, funding to support that 25 per cent fee reduction.

I am absolutely thrilled to report that we’ve had 99 per cent of our operators sign onto that agreement. I think that really speaks to the state of the relationship and positivity and optimism that I think we all share as we travel this path together.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you for that. That’s really good to hear. Listen, I’ve been fortunate to do a lot of things in government, but I personally take this one because I know how hard staff worked on it. A lot of them are behind you, as I see you looking at multiple people when you’re on mute. I just know how much it means to them, regardless of politics. They saw the opportunity and they went after it.

My next question is around accessibility. Just before I was finished, we were looking at communities like Guysborough that had little to no access for child care. That becomes a huge issue, especially when you’re trying to recruit and retain folks in communities. People don’t realize how much child care matters to the family when it comes to cost and accessibility, but to the economy, it’s massive when you’re trying to recruit doctors and retain specialists within a community, whether it’s health care or a trade, or a particular industry.

I guess my questions are - you’re talking about expanding seats. I think it was 1,500 was the number that you talked about initially, what you’re looking at. Can you give us an update on where you’re looking at to start with your expansion into some of these communities, and a bit of a timeline around that?

BECKY DRUHAN: Thanks to the member for this question. Yes, accessibility is one of the fundamental pillars of this agreement and of the work that we’re doing, having child care that’s available to families wherever they live, everywhere in Nova Scotia. We do realize that there are areas that have been underserved by licensed child care centres.

I’m going to take this opportunity to give a shout-out to our unlicensed operators and folks who may be providing day home services, who are not within our license system. Give us a call. We want you on board. In many of those communities that are underserved by licensed care, our child care providers are unlicensed smaller providers, and there is space in this system for them. There’s my plug - I’ll plug it at every opportunity I get.

Back to the question about where we can expect our new spaces to be located, I don’t have any specifics or an announcement at this time. I can say that we are on track for opening 1,500 new spaces this year and meeting that commitment. That is flowing from the responses that we received this past Fall to an expression of interest that was put out to our not-for-profit operators. We received great interest in response to that. We are working through this process to establish where those first spaces will be.

I will say, one of the criteria for determining where those spaces will be is exactly that: what communities are underserved. We know that folks need child care. We need child care across the province. One of the priorities for us, for me personally, and for our department, is making sure that we target those communities that are really in need of spaces.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: You may not be able to answer this now and it will be something we’ll probably talk about a little bit more when I come back - I’m hoping to be back for another little bit at some point. Is part of those seats to do with looking at inclusive education, ensuring that we have supports for our kids with diverse needs? Have you started looking, in that 1,500, are you looking at any particular number for seats that would be representative of children who would need more supports?

BECKY DRUHAN: We’re on pillar two, which is inclusivity. It is, as the member knows, one of the foundational pillars and elements of the child care agreement and of the work that we’re doing.

In terms of what inclusion looks like, it’s not about designated spaces. It’s about ensuring that our centres are supported to welcome all children of diverse needs and backgrounds so that the system is inclusive, and the centres are inclusive - not that we have individual numbers of seats or spaces that are inclusive. There’s a fundamental piece of the work. We couldn’t identify that this specific number of seats are inclusive.

The one very small change that exists now within the funding agreements going forward is the requirement that our centres use best efforts to fill the licensed spaces that exist, and that is an element of inclusivity. It’s a principle that infuses all of the work and all of the centres that will be developing and supporting.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: That’s going to conclude my time tonight, but I look forward to talking to you again, probably in the next few hours depending on how long you’ll be here. We’ll try to keep it under five days. (Laughter) I look forward to talking to you again.

I’m going to pass it over to my colleague, the member for Northside-Westmount, who has some questions around infrastructure. Thank you, minister, and thank you, staff.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Northside-Westmount.

FRED TILLEY: Hi, Minister. Thank you for being here and taking our questions, and thanks to your staff as well.

My questions are a little bit more direct than the member for Sydney-Membertou - just around some infrastructure in my riding. I was very pleased to see in the capital budget the school for Northside is still listed with a timeline of 2024-25. I’m just wondering if you could confirm that timeline for me.

[7:45 p.m.]

BECKY DRUHAN: Thank you to the member for the question. I completely understand the excitement of a community when a new school is in the works, so I understand the question and why it’s being asked.

What I can say is that the timeline under the capital plan for that middle school is 2024-25. Site selection work is under way and Public Works is doing what they do on that front, so that will progress. We are committed to this school happening, and we share the community’s excitement about it.

In terms of whether there’s any change to the target opening of September 2024, there’s no change at this time, but I have to give a caveat that COVID-19 impacts on construction is widespread throughout all sectors, not just education. There’s the possibility of course that that timeline may shift as a result of some of those factors. If that does happen, the region will communicate that with the families first because those are the folks who most need to know.

I can reaffirm our commitment to that school and state that yes, that work is under way and we look forward to it progressing.

FRED TILLEY: That’s great news, minister. I know the community is very excited about this new school. I was a member of the Cape Breton-Victoria Regional School Board for 14 years. Now the CBVRCE has done extensive work over the years in reducing the number of infrastructure in the CBRM. I do remember when we were on that board, I think we were one of the first boards to actually complete some of those reductions to right-size the system.

The current infrastructure at Sydney Mines Middle School is - I am old but my Dad graduated high school from that school so it’s really old. So we’re looking forward to that. I’m glad to hear that site selection is under way.

I guess a question around site selection: Has a site selection committee been put together, including members of the parents support groups or community members?

BECKY DRUHAN: Thanks to the member for the question. I think the question makes some assumptions about what the site selection process is or might be referring to an older site selection process.

Just to clarify what it looks like, the site selection process at this stage is very much a technical process and it is completed by Public Works with factors really that are around the school infrastructure. They look in priority sequence at the existing site, at Crown land and then, if necessary, at other options to determine - from a technical perspective - what a suitable site would be based on school infrastructure needs.

Following that process, information is shared with the public. A committee is struck much later on in the school build process. It’s a school steering committee and that’s after the site selection process is complete.

I can say that Public Works is in the process now of undertaking their work around site selection but there’s no public committee element to that.

FRED TILLEY: Thank you, minister. I am definitely dating myself. The last time we built a school in the Northside it was the other process, so thank you for the clarification. Do we have a timeline as to when Public Works may be ready to provide potential locations?

BECKY DRUHAN: I will say “soon” - I don’t have anything more specific than that.

FRED TILLEY: Soon is good - I’ll take soon.

I’m going to shift gears a little bit, minister. In Northside-Westmount, there are a lot of families who are really struggling and we’re grateful for some of the programs that are in place within the school system, such as breakfast programs and those types of things. Are there any plans to expand the breakfast program or maybe to bring in a lunch program for schools?

BECKY DRUHAN: We absolutely recognize the importance of nutrition for students’ well-being, not just for their learning well-being, which obviously we’re focused on, but for their health - their physical, mental, and emotional well-being as well.

Across the province we have funding available to schools. It’s universally available. We have provincial access to funding, and through that funding schools have breakfast programs. Some have lunch programs as well that they implement with that funding. Our educators are very mindful of this need. When students need food, we make sure that they get it. I’d also like to mention that we have 211, which is available for any folks experiencing food insecurity on an emergency basis. That can help address this need as well.

More needs to be done, absolutely. We’re very aware of that. One thing that I’m very hopeful and pleased to see is that two of Canada’s federal ministers actually have school food programming in their mandate letters. We are very enthusiastic to be working across departments and with the federal government on what that may look like in terms of supporting additional food programming in schools in Nova Scotia.

FRED TILLEY: Thank you for that answer. That’s very encouraging. I appreciate that. I know the educators and staff at the schools across Nova Scotia, but in particular in Northside-Westmount and Cape Breton in general, are fantastic professionals who treat our kids amazingly.

Again, back a number of years ago, I think 2018 or 2016, I know the board in Cape Breton was experiencing large numbers - probably a little earlier than that, but large numbers of substitutes on the substitute list and large numbers of teachers’ assistants on the substitute list. But I’ve heard anecdotally that in today’s environment those lists have dwindled significantly, maybe due to retirements and things.

I’m just wondering what the status is of availability of substitutes, both from a teaching perspective and teacher assistants in the CBRM, if possible.

BECKY DRUHAN: Thank you to the member for the question. Staff retention and recruitment are challenges that almost every sector is experiencing right now - just basic and overall workforce challenges are the reality with our current workforce.

In education specifically, I think I mentioned earlier that we haven’t actually seen a decrease in the number of substitute teachers since the pandemic started. What we have seen is that there is less uptake and acceptance of assignments. That has been an impact.

To this end, we’re very mindful of the importance of focusing on retention and on recruitment. We’re looking at all options for supporting our existing teachers - our amazing teachers and our amazing TAs, and our other staff who want to stay - and also to attract new staff into our system. With teachers, for example, we have a committee with the NSTU and that’s the focus of that committee.

This is work that we prioritize. We’re aware that it’s a need and we’re looking at all options that we can, to ensure we have a healthy staff complement to support our system.

FRED TILLEY: Thank you, minister, for answering my questions. That’s all I have for now. I’m going to pass it back to the Chair and our friends from the NDP.

THE CHAIR: The time is now 8:01 p.m., we’ll be concluding at 8:26 p.m.

The honourable member for Halifax Needham

SUZY HANSEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to say thank you to the minister and as well the department staff because I know the work they do, the time they put in, they do it because they care for the kids and education is on the forefront for most of them and they have been doing this for quite some time.

[8:00 p.m.]

I want to say it’s lovely to see you online, minister. Since you had such a powerful Supply speech today about being present in the House, I’m just going to get right into it.

In the Summary of 2021-22, COVID-19 response final forecast document provided by Finance and Treasury Board, there are a number of items within the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. There is $22 million for school safety measures, personal protective equipment, and enhanced cleaning.

Can the minister provide a further breakdown of how that money was allocated across these categories? So how much was spent on PPE, how much was on cleaning, etc.

BECKY DRUHAN: Thank you to the member for the question. I can give a bit of a breakdown, but I’ll commit to following up with less-rounded numbers and a more fulsome list but I can give some examples of what the components of that $22 million forecast include.

They include amounts for cleaning, $11 million; for ventilation and maintenance, $1.2 million; amounts for touchless fountains and water, $1.2 million; and amounts for PPE of $300,000. I can say as well that there is a provincial stockpile that I believe was quantified at $4.9 million of PPE. It also includes additional tech of $700,000, and math and literacy support in the amount of $4 million.

SUZY HANSEN: When the government eliminated local democratically-elected school boards, they also eliminated public input in the school site selection process. As I was listening to the member for Northside-Westmount, it’s really important, especially when you are from a community, to know where the buildings are going to be built and that the community has input.

School sites used to be handled by a board level site selection committee that included SAC members, school board members, the African Nova Scotian representative and the Mi'kmaw representative and members of municipal council. The revised Education Act regulations that came into effect April 1, 2018, eliminated any requirement for community involvement and consultation. The decision of where to build the new school, I feel, should include community voices.

My question is: Will this government be drafting new guidelines for the public consultation in the school site selection process and not just depending on the technical aspect of creating new schools?

BECKY DRUHAN: Thank you to the member for the question. Local voice is incredibly important to me, knowing what it is that our communities want to have input, need to have input on. It is important to our government as well and it is one of the elements of my mandate, which is to find out from the communities what it is they want to have, what they need in terms of expressing local voice and engagement with, and involvement in, the school system.

More specifically to the question you’ve asked around site selection, I’ll say currently that process does include public engagement. What I described earlier was the technical process that Public Works engages in to identify the very technical needs and the sites that are appropriate to those technical needs.

Following that process, there is opportunity for communities to provide input on that. Subsequent to that, once the site is selected and when a school build is under way, there is also a school steering committee process which brings together community members to be engaged in providing advice and input into the actual build of the school. There are elements in the existing process that do reflect public engagement and influence.

However, as I started by saying, we want to know what it is that the public wants to be engaged in within the school system. That question around what decisions the public wants to be involved in is one that I’m going to be going to the communities with in the coming months to get feedback on where it is they want to be engaged and how they want to be engaged.

I’m really looking forward to hearing from communities on that exact question so we can really determine what elements of our various processes and engagement practices may need to change to better reflect what it is that our communities want and need.

SUZY HANSEN: I’m really glad to hear that because, as we know, their voice should be first and we know that when they had school boards, they had a voice.

Is there any commitment from the minister to thinking about schools as part of a rural economic development strategy? Putting them in business parks and on highways accomplishes the opposite, especially as we want to entice people home, via Tourism Nova Scotia and other means. That’s why I said that community input is very valuable because this is their community, this where they live, they grow up.

I am just wanting to know if you have a commitment to thinking about schools as part of our rural economic development strategy.

BECKY DRUHAN: Thank you to the member for the question. There are so many levels at which that question can be looked at. I think at the very highest level, the question gets at the really big picture of how do we leverage synergies, how do we best use our resources, our community resources, in the most fulsome way that we can?

[8:15 p.m.]

I must say that those kinds of questions are the questions that drew me into government, the opportunities to work between departments, to really build those synergies, and best support our communities.

I love the motivation behind the question and fully appreciate it. That’s one layer we have to consider. Another layer we have to consider is the very technical, and engineering, and operational elements of what a school is, how it needs to be built, the infrastructure that is required around it. Those sorts of questions put some constraints around where we’re able to build our schools and, quite frankly, financial constraints as well. You can’t overstate how important it is to make sure that those are a priority as well when school planning is happening.

That being said, I and the department absolutely recognize that schools are a really vital part of the community - and often the heart of community. All these kinds of things really do need to go into consideration around school siting. I will say again as well, I am sure there are various other ideas and opinions about how siting should be done, and what sort of public engagement should be made in that process across the province. I’m looking forward to hearing from those local voices about what other factors need to go into school siting.

SUZY HANSEN: The estimate on capital spending is more than $40 million less this year. Why is there such a significant reduction in planned capital spending?

BECKY DRUHAN: School builds are complex, lengthy processes that go through a variety of phases, some of which cost more money than others. As a result of that, your actual spend on a build in any given year can vary for no reason other than it’s going through sort of the natural build phases that occur over a number of years.

Any perceived reduction in the estimate relating to that doesn’t reflect a backing away of any commitments to build or any change to timelines necessarily. There is a natural ebb and flow through the course of a build, which results in a fluctuation of a spend in any given year.

I can say, to kind of wrap that up so that the implications of that are really clear: we have a five-year capital plan, and we are fully committed to building those schools that are on that capital plan.

SUZY HANSEN: Yes, I will hold you to that because one of those schools is in my riding, St. Joseph’s- Alexander McKay Elementary. I will tell you that my daughter now is in her first year of university and we’ve been fighting for that school since she was in the pre-Primary Four Plus Program, before they removed it.

One of the capital expenses in education is school bus fleet renewal. How many school buses are actually owned by the government?

BECKY DRUHAN: I don’t have the exact number for our current fleet right at hand, but we will get that for the member. Our estimated forecasted purchase for the renewal of buses as they sort of hit their natural life cycle for the upcoming year is 55.

SUZY HANSEN: I’d love a breakdown, if you could, but I’m glad that you gave the number. Has the department done any cost-benefit analysis on the value of publicly owning buses compared to contracting busing services?

BECKY DRUHAN: Bus ownership and the arrangements around busing actually vary from region to region. We have one of our regions that contracts out for their busing services, and in that instance, they don’t own their buses, but in other instances we do actually have buses in a provincial fleet.

I don’t know offhand what analysis may have been done in relation to that, but we’ll look into that at the department and get back to the member. I will say, as we shift towards greening our fleet, that analysis would have to change and would have to be updated to reflect current options available in respect to that.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier.

KENDRA COOMBES: Thank you. Mr. Chair. A number of years ago, the government announced that a new elementary school would be built in the Dominion-Reserve Mines area to replace the Tompkins Memorial Elementary School in Reserve Mines and the former Macdonald Elementary School in Dominion. I know the minister is aware of this because she and I have exchanged emails on it. Has a site been selected for this new school?

BECKY DRUHAN: I’ll say what I said before, because it’s true in every instance. We know communities are really excited when a new school build is in their future, so I appreciate the question. I can say that there has been no site selected at this time, but it’s under way with Public Works.

KENDRA COOMBES: I’m sure you’re aware that we have some eager community individuals who want to be a part of the whole process, as you talked about how much a community wants to be engaged. This community of mine wants to be engaged from start to finish.

When are you expecting a site to be selected and for work to start? They have been waiting since at least 2015 or 2017.

BECKY DRUHAN: My understanding is that Public Works is finishing up their work for their part of the site selection process, and once that’s wrapped up, then additional information will be shared with the community. I can say soon, but I don’t have a more specific timeline than that.

KENDRA COOMBES: With the time that I have remaining, I’ll just ask the minister if she could keep me, the MLA for the area, informed so that I can keep the community informed on what is occurring in the area. As I said, they’ve been waiting since between 2015-2017 for this promise to come about. They are eagerly waiting with less patience than they had before, and the same with their MLA. Thank you.

THE CHAIR: Order. It is now 8:26 p.m. and the House is set to adjourn at 11:59 p.m. That concludes the Subcommittee’s consideration of Estimates for today. The Subcommittee will resume consideration when the House again resolves into a Committee of the Whole House on Subsupply.

I ask you to please return to your seats in the Legislative Chamber. The Committee of the Whole House on Subsupply must rise and report before the House concludes its business for the day.

[The committee adjourned at 8:27 p.m.]