HALIFAX, FRIDAY, APRIL 16, 2021
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON SUPPLY
12:20 P.M.
CHAIR
Keith Bain
THE CHAIR: The Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply will now come to order. We are meeting today to consider the Estimates for the Department of Justice, as outlined in Resolution E13, which reads:
Resolution E13 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $392,342,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Justice, pursuant to the Estimate.
With that, I recognize the Minister of Justice. You have one hour for your opening remarks.
The honourable Minister of Justice.
HON. RANDY DELOREY: Good afternoon to my colleagues. First, as I begin today, I’d like to acknowledge that we are in Mi’kma’ki, the traditional and unceded territory of the Mi’kmaw people.
I’m pleased to be here to highlight the work of the Department of Justice - and, as I like to call them, the Justice League - to speak about our priorities for the coming year. I’ve had the privilege of serving as the Attorney General and the Minister of Justice for about the past few months. In this time, I’ve had the opportunity to see first-hand the tremendous work and dedication of staff who work tirelessly to address the impacts of human trafficking and domestic violence, advance efforts to eradicate systemic racism in the justice system, advance accessibility, and keep Nova Scotians in our communities safe.
Before I move on to detailed remarks, I’d like to offer a bit of an overview of the department’s key areas of focus, which include policing; public safety; administration of the courts, including courthouse security; transport of persons in custody; civil enforcement and support to the judiciary; Correctional Services, including community and custody programs and services for adults and youth; supports and services to help victims of crime; enforcement of court-ordered child and spousal support payments; implementation of the Accessibility Act; and providing legal services to the government of Nova Scotia and its legal entities.
This work is delivered through our many divisions, comprised of Public Safety and Security, Court Services, Correctional Services, Policy and Information Management, Strategic Initiatives, Maintenance Enforcement, Victim Services, the Accessibility Directorate, and Legal Services.
I would like to acknowledge my deputy minister, associate minister, and senior executives for their preparation of the department’s budget submission, and staff throughout the department for their tremendous work throughout what has been a very challenging year.
In addition to having responsibility and oversight of these divisions, I also have responsibility for the Public Prosecution Service, the Office of the Police Complaints Commission, Office of the Public Trustee, the Nova Scotia Medical Examiner Service, the Serious Incident Response Team or SIRT, the Human Rights Commission, the Workers’ Compensation Appeals Tribunal, and the Office of Information and Privacy Review.
Our budget for 2021-22 is just over $392 million, a budget increase of $18 million, or almost 5 percent compared to last year. The department’s budget highlights are focused on advancing our commitments to Nova Scotians through the delivery of responsive and accessible programs and services.
This last year has certainly been heavy for Nova Scotians. Almost every aspect of our lives has been impacted by the global pandemic. The presence of risk and heightened response to public safety has meant that we have all had to make changes. This holds true for the work that we do within the department, where priorities were quickly realigned to respond to the needs of those we serve.
Just as we were coming to realize the enormity of this pandemic, Nova Scotia experienced an unimaginable tragedy and the largest mass casualty in our country’s history. As we approach one year from the events of last April, our thoughts remain with the families and others who experienced harm.
Our response to the pandemic and to the tragic events of last April have had significant impacts on the work of the department over the past year, as have the social movements spurred by the unfair and traumatic experiences of African Nova Scotians. These events have given cause to reflect and ensure that the needs and interests of all those that we serve are integrated into all we do, from policy development to program delivery.
We take a preventive approach with the work we do, aiming to break down systemic racism, to break the cycle of repeat offences, and eliminate barriers to access across the province. This work, as is the case in all we do, is driven by and must continue to be driven by collaboration with justice partners, victims, survivors, persons with disabilities, Indigenous people, African Nova Scotians, and all others we serve.
This year’s budget looks to the future with investments in Nova Scotians who have not had the same historic opportunities as others. Mr. Chair, addressing social justice issues is among the highest priorities of our department and the justice system as a whole. Fairness, equitable access, opportunity and participation are the principles that guide our work. These are translated into our efforts to expand diversity within our workforce.
We recognize that to accomplish our goal of eradicating racism, it’s also important that we focus on equity, diversity, and inclusion within our own department. To that end, we now have a senior advisor of equity and inclusion focused on working throughout the department to support the implementation of our multi-year diversity plan.
The principles of equitable access, opportunity, and participation also guide our work on accessibility, and on ensuring that all who are served are supported and are kept safe by our justice system and have the opportunity to direct needed changes. For many Indigenous and African Nova Scotians, systemic racism and discrimination is a lived reality. The racial inequities and imbalance of opportunities they have endured have had lasting and significant impacts.
For more than 300 years, many African Nova Scotians have been living on land passed down by their ancestors without clear title. Without legal certainty of ownership, many residents in these communities are unable to exercise all of the benefits of land ownership that the rest of us take for granted, such as obtaining a mortgage, dividing or selling their land, accessing housing grants, or building equity in their homes.
Legislation introduced this session and supported by all parties aims to build further trust, create positive and lasting change, and address this historic injustice. Mr. Chair, $1.3 million has been allocated to the department in this year’s budget to support accelerated work under the Land Titles Initiative including the hiring of a dedicated executive director, which will be served by community leader Angela Simmonds, and two commissioners, the Honourable Corrine Sparks and the Honourable Valerie Miller, to adjudicate disputes. These hires will allow for negotiation, mediation, and voluntary arbitration of claims, and create broader authority to administer the initiative. This budget allocation was part of a more significant investment to help speed up efforts under the Land Titles Initiative, which also includes a $3 million compensation fund to resolve cases that involve parties with competing claims.
Historical disparities and an imbalance of opportunities often result in added barriers for those who come in contact with the criminal justice system. We know that many African Nova Scotians and Indigenous people have not had positive interactions with the justice system. These experiences, and the role that we had in shaping them, must be considered in the advancement of our work to eliminate discrimination and break down systems of inequality. Our aim is to listen, learn, and improve.
Although we know that a tremendous amount of work lies before us, I truly believe it is important that we acknowledge the concerted efforts undertaken by staff and by government to address these issues. For more than 25 years, we’ve supported the Indigenous Blacks and Mi’kmaq Initiative at Dalhousie University’s Schulich School of Law. That’s an initiative that has done so much to increase access to legal education and promote diversity in the legal profession. We need talented lawyers who understand the background and circumstances of those they serve. This is especially important for those communities who have long been underrepresented in the legal profession, and yet overrepresented in the criminal justice system.
[12:30 p.m.]
Our courts have also become more specialized and more reflective of those who come before them. A prime example of this is the Aboriginal Wellness and Gladue Court at Wagmatcook First Nation, which supports the cultural needs of Indigenous people accessing justice. The court reflects and respects the Mi’kmaw experience and perspective and provides a response that is culturally mindful and sensitive to Indigenous cultures. This court sits between one and three times a week.
It’s equally important that contacts and culture be considered when sentencing African Nova Scotian offenders. Race and cultural impact assessments are an important tool that can help courts to understand how systemic racism, or other background factors, may have contributed to a person’s interaction with the criminal justice system. They are similar in substance to Gladue reports. They address the impact of systemic racism on offenders. The department provides funding for these cultural assessments which were pioneered right here in Nova Scotia and which will soon be adopted federally, providing more access to justice for African Canadians across Canada.
In cases where African Nova Scotians or Indigenous people receive custodial sentencing at one of our provincial facilities, we work to ensure that their cultural needs continue to be served and that they continue to have a connection to their communities. African Nova Scotian and Indigenous liaison officers support inmates, educate staff, and work with cultural community agencies and support providers to address cultural needs of individuals in conflict with the law.
Correctional Services coordinate the delivery of culturally responsive programs, including the Red Road Talking Circle; respectful relationships for Indigenous individuals; case management support for African Nova Scotian and Indigenous inmates; smudging and sweat lodges; and cultural gatherings, including drumming and traditional meals. Although the delivery of these programs has been impacted by COVID-19, we have been working and providing programming virtually when possible, and individuals in custody continue to have opportunities for smudging when deemed safe to do so.
We’re continuing to foster and develop partnerships with cultural community service providers and leaders, including 902 Man Up, the African Nova Scotian Decade for People of African Descent Coalition, the Nova Scotia Brotherhood Initiative, and Mi’kmaw elders to better support Indigenous and African Nova Scotian clients. Currently, we are exploring how we can work directly in cultural communities to increase the availability of and access to Correctional Services programs. We’re also working with the Nova Scotia Community College and community cultural partners to support success in post-secondary education for Indigenous and African Nova Scotians who are involved with Correctional Services.
Another area of significant interest and focus for both African Nova Scotian communities and the department is police interactions. Respectful interactions between police and citizens are essential to safe communities and effective policing. All Nova Scotians deserve respect and equal treatment that is free from discrimination. That’s why my predecessor in this government banned street checks in 2019. We continue to take action to advance recommendations in the Wortley report, including the extension of the time frame for filing a complaint against a municipal police officer to bring it in line with the time frame for the RCMP. This change took effect in January.
We’ve also established a research committee made up of members of African Nova Scotian communities from across the province and representatives from African Nova Scotian organizations, including Game Changers 902, the African Nova Scotian Decade for People of African Descent Coalition, and the Association of Black Social Workers. The committee also includes representatives from police, government, the Human Rights Commission, and the Nova Scotia Association of Police Governance, and is supported by an expert academic. This group is tasked with recommending a race-based data collection model for police stops, and their work is ongoing.
Following the release of the Wortley report, the department provided police with funding to support training for law enforcement. These funds have been used to help police agencies enhance their cultural competency through training modules related to ethics, accountability, and racially biased policing.
More recently, we’ve collaborated with the RCMP to facilitate the delivery of the RCMP’s African Canadian Experience or ACE training to municipal police. We will continue to engage with police, community, and other stakeholders as we address the recommendations from the Wortley report.
In the coming year, we will also work with African Nova Scotian Affairs, African Nova Scotians, and other justice stakeholders to inform the development of the African Nova Scotian justice plan, and we will continue our work with Indigenous communities to develop and advance an Indigenous justice action plan. This work will help ensure the province’s justice system better meets the needs of these communities and that we break down the harmful impacts of systemic racism.
Right now, this is the time for fundamental change and a revisioning of how we deliver justice. As the Minister of Justice and Attorney General, I commit to you that I will champion these efforts.
Another area of considerable focus for the department is intimate partner and sexualized violence, including domestic violence, human trafficking, and sexual exploitation. The harms of these crimes are felt by children, youth, adults, families, and communities across this province, and have a disproportional impact on equity-seeking communities. We have and continue to deliver trauma-informed training and sexual violence training to frontline officers, providing them with the knowledge, skills, and ability to effectively handle the complexity of these investigations.
In 2019, we stood up a dedicated human trafficking unit. Having a provincial team dedicated to this work is critical to our intervention efforts and ability to convict offenders. This past year, we expanded this unit with the hiring of a crime analyst and an administrator.
We’ve also committed $1.4 million a year over five years to fight human trafficking and provide more supports and services for survivors. This includes the hiring of an additional Crown prosecutor to specialize in human trafficking cases, along with specialized training for Crowns; the hiring of three family and victim support navigators; and the reassignment of officers from the Additional Officer Program. Once in place, those officers will be dedicated to investigating sexual assault and domestic violence cases and working alongside the human trafficking unit, prosecutors, Victim Services, and community organizations on human trafficking cases. Our investment also includes funding to the Elizabeth Fry Society of Mainland Nova Scotia for the hiring of youth program coordinators focused on teaching our youth how to protect themselves from human trafficking and exploitation.
Government has also made several investments over the past few years to help support victims of domestic violence, including opening a new Domestic Violence Court Program in Halifax and making the existing court in Sydney permanent; investing $5.2 million to support the construction and renovation of shelters and transition homes for victims of domestic violence; and changing the Labour Standards Code to allow victims of domestic violence to take up to 16 continuous weeks of unpaid leave, including three days of paid leave.
A partnership was formed this year with the Nova Scotia Community College to provide an online domestic violence learning service so that external stakeholders, such as police and community service providers, can access key training 24/7. A new domestic violence training module and competency-based curriculum project is currently under development with a specific focus on enhancing police and service provider response in these cases, using a human-centred, trauma-informed, and culturally relevant approach.
We know that the barriers experienced by women with disabilities in situations of domestic violence are significant and troubling. This was made evident when Not Without Us: What We Heard - A Report About Changing the Response for Women with Disabilities Experiencing Domestic Violence was released in July. The report identifies 13 key recommendations in areas including disability training for law enforcement officials, navigation and outreach supports, and cultural considerations.
The Accessibility Directorate, along with representatives of other government staff and community stakeholders, formed a working group to develop a framework with key milestones and outcomes. The framework will be informed by analysis of accessibility barriers impacting women with disabilities experiencing domestic violence and will identify concrete ways and actions to remove and prevent these barriers.
Nova Scotia is also working with New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador to address and prevent domestic violence and domestic violence-related homicide. In December, the Council of Atlantic Premiers announced the establishment of the Atlantic Domestic Homicide Review Network, the first regional review network of its kind in Canada. This network will enhance information sharing, ensure joint consideration of existing system responses and prevention efforts, and learn and identify best practices and areas for improvement and collaboration across the region.
This will help us map the best path forward for Nova Scotia and Atlantic Canada to address domestic violence and better support victims and survivors. At the same time, we’re finalizing regulations for Nova Scotia’s death review committees and will proceed with the establishment of both a Domestic Violence Death Review Committee and a Child Death Review Committee.
The confinement of people to their homes because of the pandemic increased risk to those facing domestic violence. In response, the Department of Justice and the Nova Scotia Advisory Council on the Status of Women initiated and co-chaired a COVID-19 domestic violence coordination working group with representatives from government and community. The aim of this group was to provide rapid response to emerging issues during the early stages of the pandemic. This included providing transition house clients with transportation by our sheriffs; continued delivery of Victim Services supports in person, by phone, email, and online; and having regular contact with Crown attorneys about bail hearings and Corrections regarding any releases.
We know that women and girls who are victims of intimate partner and sexualized violence are vulnerable to later becoming involved in the criminal justice system themselves. It is important that supports are in place to help these women break the cycle. We recently invested $360,000 in the Elizabeth Fry Society’s Holly House to continue delivering its around-the-clock support to women and increase the facility’s capacity. Women served by Holly House have direct access to collaborative and preventive government supports provided by the Departments of Justice, Community Services, Housing and Infrastructure, and Health and Wellness.
These services include educational support from Correctional Services teachers, regular and direct access to Nova Scotia Health Authority addictions therapists, and housing support workers. Our work with Holly House will result in more positive outcomes for more women and ensure they are able to easily access the supports that they might need to move forward.
This past year, we were an active participant on the domestic violence law enforcement committee of the Nova Scotia Chiefs of Police Association. We also oversaw a review of high-risk protocols to ensure consistency in police response and community support to victims.
In the coming year, we will continue to work with the Department of Community Services and the Nova Scotia Advisory Council on the Status of Women to implement Standing Together, a provincial action plan to prevent domestic violence and to support victims of domestic violence. This work will focus on reviewing gaps in programs and expanding current initiatives offered by the department to prevent future violence and support people affected by domestic violence. Particular attention will be paid to historically marginalized and equity-seeking groups.
We will also support the continued implementation of domestic violence courts in Sydney and Halifax. This includes creating consistency in policies, programming, and service delivery, collaborating with community-based agencies, partners, and continued monitoring and evaluation to respond to emerging issues in the field. We will ensure stronger supportive connections between families experiencing violence and child protection by working with our partners of the Department of Community Services and the Domestic Violence Court Program working group. This will help create better information sharing between matters in criminal court and family court proceedings.
[12:45 p.m.]
We will continue our work with the Nova Scotia Advisory Council on the Status of Women, the Elizabeth Fry Society, the Association of Black Social Workers, Mi’kmaw Legal Support Network, Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre, and the Transition House Association of Nova Scotia to ensure culturally safe programming is linked to the Domestic Violence Court Program.
Staff in our Maintenance Enforcement Program continue to advance work on behalf of Nova Scotia families. Co-operation among provinces and territories and the federal government is essential for enforcing support orders when payees have moved to another province. Work is under way in three areas with sub-working groups attached to each:
1. To trace and locate, which aims to find ways for federal and provincial territories to share best practices and improve the ability to find payers or debtors who have either gone missing or are evading enforcement activities within and across jurisdictions;
2. Bank garnishments, which looks to gain consistency and a common process for information gathering and garnishment of bank account assets for payers and debtors;
3. Secure electronic documents, which involves developing a secure platform for provinces and territories to exchange documents.
I would like to shift now to another critically important area of the department, and that is accessibility. This year, the Department of Justice will continue to lead the implementation of the Access by Design 2030 strategy and the Government of Nova Scotia’s Accessibility Plan, which are guiding Nova Scotia toward our goal of being an accessible province by 2030.
This year, we are investing an additional $320,000 in the Accessibility Directorate to support the implementation of the government’s work on accessibility. This additional funding will allow the directorate to maintain its current staffing complement, along with the hiring of two more staff in the Accessibility Directorate, to support this critical work and help guide the work of future standard development committees.
Work on the province’s first accessibility standards continues. Community experts from education and the built environment, the majority of whom are persons with disabilities, have submitted their initial recommendations, which we plan to advance for consultation later this year. Both committees are now developing their second phase of recommendations. We will soon be announcing the third area of focus for standard development and establishing a committee to help guide this work.
Work is under way now on the development of a provincial public awareness campaign to increase Nova Scotians’ understanding of accessibility, the rights of persons with disabilities, and barriers faced by persons with disabilities.
The goal of an accessible Nova Scotia is only possible through the collective support of all sectors and of all Nova Scotians. Public sector organizations, including municipalities, universities, and libraries, are valuable partners in meeting our goal of an accessible province by 2030. These organizations have undertaken many efforts to advance accessibility over and above the requirements for the development of accessibility plans and the establishment of accessibility committees. We know that the pandemic response has impacted our ability to advance some of this work. That’s why we’ve given the prescribed public sector bodies an additional year to meet the requirements, but that being said, progress is being made.
The Accessibility Directorate has been providing valuable support, including developing resources, tool kits, guidelines, and delivering webinars. The Municipality of Chester, the District of Lunenburg, the Town of Mahone Bay, the Town of Lunenburg, and the Town of Bridgewater all collaborated to produce a joint accessibility plan, which was recently adopted by each municipal council. Their regional accessibility plan outlines the overarching goals for improving accessibility in Lunenburg County. The individual municipal units will be releasing local accessibility action plans, which will provide more details on the actions within their specific region.
An important part of meeting the goal of an accessible Nova Scotia by 2030 will be ensuring compliance and enforcement with the Act and its regulations. The Accessibility Directorate is developing the compliance and enforcement framework for the Accessibility Act using a collaborative and consultative approach. Working groups of government and community stakeholders have been established to draft framework options.
Our dedicated team in the Accessibility Directorate are continuously engaging with persons with disabilities, gaining insights into this important work and ensuring that the programs we deliver account for the differing abilities of all Nova Scotians. This work has been especially important as we have adapted in response to COVID-19.
While the impacts of COVID-19 have been felt by everyone across the province, we recognize the additional challenges created for persons with disabilities. In March of last year, the Accessibility Directorate reached out to community organizations across the province to inquire about critical issues related to COVID-19 that were arising for Nova Scotians with disabilities. They then worked with relevant departments and community partners to ensure prompt and proper response, including more direct outreach to persons with disabilities with updates on services; providing telephones and other technology to those self-isolating; and delivery of in-home testing. Staff with the Accessibility Directorate continue to work across government to help address concerns raised by Nova Scotians with disabilities during the response to the pandemic.
How we work and the work we focus on has changed in response to the pandemic. Public Safety served as a primary stream of information for police regarding Public Health orders related to COVID-19, which resulted in a substantial shift in our operations. Our Correctional Services division worked directly with Public Health to develop and implement a robust COVID-19 prevention plan in our provincial correctional facilities. We have worked proactively to protect the health and safety of those in our custody and our staff from the virus.
The measures we’ve been taking, and continue to take, include reducing the number of individuals in custody. We continue to manage releases as we have since mid-March 2020. Inmates within 30 days from completion of their sentence continue to be considered for early release as part of their case management plan. To date, 41 inmates have been released with 30 days or less remaining in their sentence. An additional 105 intermittent-sentenced inmates have been released.
The COVID-19 Support Variation Pilot Process led by our Maintenance Enforcement Program, Nova Scotia Legal Aid, and Court Services, was created to provide out-of-court solutions to help address COVID-19-related child support matters. The pilot was developed in response to clients who are financially impacted by COVID-19. In some cases, layoffs, reduced working hours, and other changes in employment have impacted the ability of people to make court-ordered child and spousal support payments. The pilot, which ran from March 2020 to March 2021, was set up to help those who find themselves in these circumstances get a temporary change to their payments from the courts.
Our courts have also responded, continuing initially under an essential services model and expanding the services available when and where it was safe to do so. Health protocols adopted in response to COVID-19 prompted the assessment of all courtrooms and courthouses across the province for their capacity to accommodate in-person matters. When Public Health protocols have not allowed in-person proceedings, matters have been heard by courts virtually, using telephone and video online platforms.
The Domestic Violence Court Program and the Dartmouth Wellness Court have continued to deliver programming and services throughout the pandemic, and both courts have continued to sit using virtual technology. The community-based service providers who support those who appear before the domestic violence court have been able to adapt, delivering services virtually in many cases.
The Desmond inquiry was able to resume evidentiary hearings in February at the courthouse in Port Hawkesbury, which allowed for the required physical distancing. A dedicated victim services officer has been on hand to provide trauma-informed support to the families throughout the inquiry.
Jury trials were able to resume outside of metro Halifax as of September 8th, using off-site locations or by reconfiguring existing court infrastructure. However, the four criminal jury courtrooms at the Law Courts in Halifax were not large enough to accommodate criminal jury trials in compliance with COVID-19 restrictions.
The Province recently opened a satellite court capable of hearing criminal jury matters within the Halifax Regional Municipality. This facility is the first criminal jury courthouse in Atlantic Canada, perhaps even in the country, built to be COVID-19-compliant. It serves as a great example of how we have been able to adapt and transform our operations in response to COVID-19 and to prioritize the importance of access to justice.
All spaces in the new courthouse allow for the required physical distancing and are accessible for those using mobility aids. The courthouse also accommodates on-site jury selection and juror deliberations, and is equipped with state-of-the-art audio-visual systems, including digital recording and evidence presentation systems. With the addition of these two satellite courtrooms, we’ve been able to safely resume criminal jury trials in the Halifax area.
Response to COVID-19 has highlighted ways to better use technology to update court services and improve access to justice for our citizens. The province’s new e-court pilot program was launched last summer, providing an online platform where family legal counsel for both parties can engage in real-time online exchanges with a judge for dispute resolution. It includes electronic filing and exchange of motions, affidavits and other court documents, virtual conferencing, and the creation of an electronic record of all online proceedings.
It also better supports those who would otherwise need to arrange for child care, transportation, time off work, or other accommodations to attend the court in person. The program is the first online judicial dispute resolution service in the entire country.
Another initiative we have undertaken to transform the courts is the development of a task force chaired jointly by the Department of Justice and the judiciary. This task force will explore more ways to use technology to improve access to justice, increase efficiencies, and ultimately create better outcomes. The response to COVID-19 has highlighted ways to better use technology to update court services and improve access to our justice for citizens. This work will build on changes that have already been implemented in our courts and create opportunities for future innovation.
It’s important that we talk not only about the benefits of technology. As we know, smartphones, social media, and online channels continue to be used as a means of cyberbullying and the unwanted sharing of intimate images. The impact of these behaviours can be devastating for victims. The Intimate Images and Cyber-protection Act was adopted in response to the growth of these issues. This year, the courts awarded damages in the amount of $85,000 in the first successful case brought under this legislation. This court case, along with greater awareness of the supports available from the CyberScan unit, is sending the message that these behaviours are not acceptable and will not be tolerated here in Nova Scotia.
This past year has been hard for all Nova Scotians. In addition to the fear and loss faced by many due to COVID-19, we also experienced a mass casualty that resulted in the loss of 22 Nova Scotians. As a province, we came together to show our support for families and communities, and we continue to be there for them. The Victim Services team worked tirelessly to ensure those who experienced harm were supported and assisted to receive trauma-informed support and counselling. We opened support navigation centres in the communities of Portapique, Debert, Shubenacadie, and Wentworth to offer in-person support to those impacted.
On-site navigational services were an extension of the supports provided by our existing victim services officers in collaboration with other justice partners. While Victim Services has court programming and a standard service delivery model, these tragic events led us to make adjustments and adapt to meet the unique needs of the community. While we’ve since transitioned our physical presence outside of the community, out of respect and to allow them to continue to heal, we do continue to work with and be available to these individuals to provide necessary supports.
[1:00 p.m.]
A joint provincial-federal independent inquiry has been established to examine the circumstances around last year, April 18th and 19th. This work is critically important to getting answers and to helping ensure that nothing like this happens again. Parallel to this work, there are things we can do to help prevent the recurrence of a similar tragedy. This session of the Legislature, I introduced legislation that will further restrict someone from being able to access items that would facilitate impersonation of a police officer.
I appreciate that there’s no way to entirely eliminate all risks, but I do believe that these efforts will mitigate against the most significant risks. I appreciate the support that my colleagues provided to that piece of legislation. I also recognize that the use of the province’s public alert system is a topic of interest. I want my colleagues to know that discussions about our Alert Ready system are ongoing, being led by the Department of Municipal Affairs’s Emergency Management Office.
I’ll just say a few words about the Public Prosecution Service. The Nova Scotia Public Prosecution Service represents the Crown in all criminal proceedings and was the first independent prosecution service in Canada. The Public Prosecution Service employs more than 100 Crown attorneys and about 75 support staff in 18 offices across the province. Our Crowns handle about 50,000 Criminal Code charges every year. On top of that, they handle trial court appeals. In addition to prosecuting all Criminal Code offences in Nova Scotia, the Public Prosecution Service is responsible for prosecuting some 10,000 violations of provincial statutes annually.
Major cases are complex and often high-profile, and require a significant amount of time, skill, and dedication from more than one Crown attorney. Public safety and the public perception of the justice system are influenced by the outcome of these cases. The Public Prosecution Service makes it a practice to assign at least two Crown attorneys to each murder case with at least one being a senior Crown attorney. This is essential to professionally respond to the demands of these difficult cases.
Crown attorneys with the Services division of Appeals and Special Prosecutions provide advice and prosecute major and complex prosecutions. These can include organized crime, murder prosecutions, complex fraud cases, historical sexual assaults, proceeds of crime cases, cybercrime, child pornography offences, provincial regulatory offences, and cases related to Aboriginal law.
I’d now like to take a few moments to talk about the challenges facing the Nova Scotia Public Prosecution Service and this government’s efforts over the last couple of years to support the Public Prosecution Service in successfully meeting these challenges.
A growing concern for the province has been a significant increase in human trafficking. In fact, Nova Scotia has the highest rates of human trafficking in Canada. Over the next year, the Nova Scotia Public Prosecution Service will be able to focus more intently on this criminal activity. Last year’s budget allowed the Public Prosecution Service to hire a new Crown attorney dedicated to prosecuting human trafficking cases. The new Crown is also participating in the delivery of specialized training to other Crown attorneys and collaborates with our justice partners in combating this horrific crime.
On the diversity and inclusion front, the Public Prosecution Service’s equity committee provides a culturally sensitive lens to the conduct of prosecutions involving race-related issues. The committee oversees training in cultural conflicts. It is also currently working on the development of a prosecutorial policy to address the fair treatment of BIPOC persons involved in prosecutions.
The Public Prosecution Service continues to be especially vigilant about case delay to ensure that the accused is tried within a reasonable time period. In 2016, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that all superior court cases and all trials that have a preliminary inquiry will have a time limit of 30 months from the date when a charge has been laid to the completion of the trial. For provincial court trials, the time limit is 18 months.
The most successful initiative the Public Prosecution Service has undertaken to combat delay is the establishment of an intake team in which five dedicated Crown attorneys conduct arraignment days, perform an assessment as to realistic prospect of conviction, contact complainants who appear to be hostile or recanting to further assess file viability, and provide direction to police for necessary follow-up and communicate with defence counsel about possible early resolution.
The intake team, originally based in Dartmouth Provincial Court, has had very positive results, reducing time to trial in that court up from up to a year to two to three months. With this year’s budget approval to continue the intake team, it will continue its work from Halifax to deal with the backlog there. Avoiding delay will continue to be a major priority for the Public Prosecution Service for years to come.
With the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Public Prosecution Service’s staff began to work remotely where feasible. Nova Scotia Crown attorneys quickly adapted to delivering prosecutorial services virtually, and immediately joined a collaborative effort to reduce remand populations. The pandemic naturally led to delays overall, and the Public Prosecution Service continues to be an active participant in efforts to address those delays.
Before I close, I want to share some important work being done in Nova Scotia by both the government and the Nova Scotia Human Rights Commission. The past year has brought into focus for many of us what staff of the Commission have known to be true for a very long time: there’s a problem with racism in Nova Scotia and across our country. While our government has taken bold steps to demonstrate our commitment to addressing systemic racism, the Commission continues to administer the Human Rights Act through its investigations and education.
As the COVID-19 pandemic struck and public health restrictions came into effect, staff at the Commission were positioned to adapt and began immediately to deliver virtual training. Custom human rights training sessions mandated to address workplace and organizational issues of discrimination moved online, facilitated by Commission staff, and use of the Commission’s virtual classroom training modules increased. Nearly 30,000 Nova Scotians have completed the Commission’s courses aimed at educating Nova Scotia employers and staff on ways to prevent consumer racial profiling, sexual harassment, and to improve workplace equity for people with disabilities. The Commission will continue to expand its training offerings and administer the act over the coming year as it works across government and with the private sector to enhance our awareness of the importance of protecting the rights of all Nova Scotians.
Before I conclude my remarks, I’d like to take this opportunity to thank the entire Department of Justice team for their commitment to the people of Nova Scotia. They accomplish great things every day, and I thank them for it. I look forward to the opportunity to respond to my colleagues’ questions through the remaining time of Estimates debate for 2021.
THE CHAIR: Now we’ll go to the Progressive Conservative party. The honourable member for Queens-Shelburne. You have about 12 minutes left before we go to break.
KIM MASLAND: Thank you to the minister and his department for being here today. Congratulations on your new department, minister. I always look forward to having conversations with you and look forward to working with you in your new role.
Thank you to the staff who do great work. We’ve seen that in the bills that have been put forth in this legislative sitting, so my gratitude to all of them.
I’m going to start talking about domestic violence. I actually read an article the other day, and although it wasn’t a provincial article, the headline said A Pandemic within a Pandemic: Intimate Partner Violence during Covid-19. Sadly, one of the most tragic consequences of this pandemic has been the reports of intimate partner violence right across our nation. People confined to their homes with stay-at-home orders, people laid off work, schools closed. For many of us, home is our safe place, but for others it’s not. They’re trapped by their abusers.
My question to the minister is: Could he advise if his department has seen an increase in intimate partner violence during this pandemic here in our province?
RANDY DELOREY: Off the top, I thank my colleague for acknowledging the work of the staff, and I’d like to acknowledge all of my caucus - not just caucus, all of my legislative colleagues. As the member mentioned, I had the privilege of introducing three important pieces of legislation this session, and all three have received unanimous support of the Legislature, so thank you for recognizing and acknowledging that.
To the specific question, 100 per cent. We all agree in terms of the issues and the challenges, and we have seen issues and reports on a national basis. As far as the stats in Nova Scotia go, that’s a retrospective piece, so on an annual basis we work to collect the data and report back through Statistics Canada. Statistics Canada pulls that, so we don’t have the provincial-specific data at this point, looking at last year’s data. Often that data comes through after the fact, but we do certainly operationally take the steps to work with victims who do come forward to ensure that appropriate investigation, as well as support services are available to those victims and families of domestic and sexualized violence.
KIM MASLAND: I’m hoping that maybe you will have these statistics available. In 2019, the rate of police-reported domestic violence against females in Nova Scotia increased by 14.3 per cent compared to the 2016 numbers. This is higher than the 10.4 per cent rate increase for Canada. Does the minister have any insight about whether this trend is continuing?
RANDY DELOREY: Again, the system’s set up in the department for reporting. It’s been around, I think, a long time. It really does do retrospective reporting of the data that comes through. The work that the department and our partners really are focused on is as the cases come through and making sure that the resources are there.
As I mentioned in my opening remarks, this is an area that we recognize as important to Nova Scotians and important to the government and our partners, which is why, as I mentioned, several of the investments and focused initiatives that we have brought forward in the last couple of years, and we continue to support in this coming year’s budget - initiatives like the domestic violence court that was initially piloted in Cape Breton in Sydney. Recognizing the success of that pilot, we made it a permanent court and also expanded and developed and established a court recently in Halifax for the same purpose.
That work also expands to - we’re talking domestic, but we know the similar types of issues when you transfer over into other sexualized violence and gender-based violence through things like human trafficking, as well as - I mentioned earlier in my remarks - I won’t repeat them here just for the sake of time - but human trafficking-focused supports investments as well.
KIM MASLAND: That will move me right along into human trafficking, and I know my colleague from Pictou West has lots of questions, so I won’t talk a lot, but I do have some questions.
The numbers released by Statistics Canada in June show that Nova Scotia is one of the worst provinces, along with Ontario, for human trafficking. Since becoming Justice critic, I have tried to educate myself as much as I can to learn about this absolutely horrific crime that happens, and as a mother of two girls, I can tell you it frightens me.
I know the government has committed to $1.4 million a year over the next five years to support new and current initiatives to try to address efforts with human trafficking, so I want to just actually ask for a couple of updates on some of those things that the province is saying that they’re going to do. One was to hire family and victim support navigators for Halifax Regional Municipality, Cape Breton Regional Municipality, and the South Shore. I’m wondering if the minister could please advise if these navigators are in place.
RANDY DELOREY: There were four positions. Three of the four have been filled, and I believe it’s Cape Breton that has been approved but remains to be filled.
KIM MASLAND: Continuing with this question, can the minister confirm that the specialized training for Crown prosecutors has been completed?
RANDY DELOREY: Yes, we have the dedicated Crown prosecutor in place, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, and the training has taken place, but I think that type of training will be ongoing, obviously, as you have more prosecutors and opportunities. Training has taken place, but I anticipate that training will continue as part of professional development, an ongoing operational necessity within the Public Prosecution Service.
KIM MASLAND: I certainly can appreciate that fact, minister. I’m assuming that would be the same for our frontline officers. Is there a percentage of our frontline officers that have not received this training, or are we pretty much up to date with our officers who are in the field now?
RANDY DELOREY: Unfortunately, this particular specialized training for frontline police officers is provided by an organization in Ottawa, and as a result of COVID-19 and travel restrictions and so forth, we were not able to send our officers up for that training. We remain committed to it, obviously, but again, when we look at the relative success of Nova Scotia in managing COVID-19 and being able to manage within Public Health guidelines, in-person types of training and so forth, that hasn’t - if you look at the results in Ottawa, COVID-19 is far more prevalent and so forth. It remains important and we’re committed to it, but unfortunately the nature of the training and the COVID-19 pandemic has not allowed us to get that training completed.
KIM MASLAND: I can appreciate travel restrictions. We’re certainly living in a world of Zoom and virtual meetings and training, so, hopefully we could maybe even look at if there was a possibility to do that type of training. I don’t know exactly what’s all involved, but looking at something to do virtual training.
I’m going to stay with my human trafficking questions. In 2020, the department indicated that it would be launching a series of round tables across the province to hear directly from Nova Scotians who have been impacted. Can the minister please update on these sessions?
THE CHAIR: I would ask the minister to keep that question in mind as we take our required COVID-19 break for 15 minutes. We’ll resume at 1:35 p.m.
[1:20 p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]
[1:35 p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]
THE CHAIR: The Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply resumes and we’ll go back now to the honourable member for Queens-Shelburne. You have 48 minutes left.
KIM MASLAND: Maybe I’ll give the minister an opportunity to respond to that question I asked before the break.
RANDY DELOREY: With the community programs and consultations on the - I just tried to remember if I remembered the question correctly. On the one hand, we had done community engagements, my predecessor, over a couple of years, with victims of domestic violence and so forth, and then in the last year during COVID-19, the intent obviously pre-COVID-19 was to do a similar activity in the area of human trafficking.
Again, with that work, we’d be engaged with community partners and so forth, and again, COVID-19 has disrupted a lot of things, especially things that would be designed around in-person and so forth, so those engagements have not taken place. However, I assure you the work has not been forgotten. I’ve been advised that even within the last week or two, there have been engagements with some of our partners to re-establish and get back on track with those consultations.
In addition, I would note that last year there was additional funding for partners like the YMCA, the YWCA, I believe over $300,000 to support in this area of engagement and awareness and supports. I know in the Fall, that organization did provide an information session open to the public. I believe all MLAs were invited to attend that session up here in Halifax. It was after the first wave and just before the second wave started up in, I think, October time frame. A lot of good information and engagement shared there.
I’m going to go back to your first question, just so that if it comes up more around the stats and the data piece. I just got a little bit of clarification when I mentioned Statistics Canada and so forth. Just to clarify, the way that data gets reported - this is going back to your earlier question about the data and domestic violence and so forth. The statistics - I forget the federal legislation that governs Statistics Canada - it actually mandates all police agencies to report this information at the point of charges and so forth, so that’s why it goes through Statistics Canada. It doesn’t get reported to us in the department and the province. Statistics Canada generally reports on an annual basis. We would expect to get the data in the Summertime for the previous year of operations.
What the province gets is when things enter into the court system and so forth. Statistics Canada gets it when it’s reported, we get it when the charges are laid, and then it enters our prosecution system and through that side of the justice system here in the province.
KIM MASLAND: I’d like to share with the minister. I had a conversation last week with a teacher at the middle school in my constituency, and she shared with me her concerns about the importance of creating awareness, especially in rural communities, because we’re certainly not immune to these perpetrators coming to our communities. She went on to say that she does teach about stranger danger and human trafficking within her class, but she is very concerned that there is not an awareness in the communities about these real dangers.
She went on to say that she felt that, although she’s doing her part, it was a real responsibility of the province and of the Department of Justice to make sure that those messages are out there. I wanted to share that with the minister so he’s aware of a perspective coming from someone from rural Nova Scotia, and a teacher. I’m wondering, is there any plan, or could there be community engagement sessions? It was great that we had the YMCA do a session for us MLAs to learn more, but what about getting out into actual communities and having these types of information sessions?
RANDY DELOREY: I thank the member for highlighting a very important topic, and I don’t know if it was a constituent, but to that educator, please pass on my personal gratitude to them, both in my formal capacity and role, but also as a father. Any Nova Scotian who takes the initiative to tackle such important issues in their community and to share to keep our youth safe ought to be recognized and commended, so please …
As it relates to what we can do and what we are doing or have done in the Department of Justice, I think there’s a recognition in these areas. You might have caught this theme in my opening remarks, that so much of the investment, so much of the work we do is actually not just the Department of Justice - it’s the work we do with our partners, and whether the partners - because it’s such a complex - human trafficking, it touches so many. The partners with policing services, with the Public Prosecution Service, we need to educate there. You’re right, we need to educate in the community, so we’ve partnered with community organizations and community services opportunities, people who work with vulnerable populations.
Through some of our community partnership investments - I mentioned earlier investments for the YMCA, YWCA. That funding is to help through education and information programming. We also have victim services supports that are distributed in communities and so forth, primarily focused, off the top, with victims themselves and supporting them. We also support organizations like the Association of Black Social Workers, who are in community and in many cases with vulnerable community groups, to help get this information message out there.
I do take your point, particularly with youth, and particularly recognizing that there are vulnerable populations where this type of horrible activity - those who would be a perpetrator, those perpetrators recognize those vulnerabilities and tackle them, and while we recognize that often socioeconomic factors - other equity-seeking groups, whether they be gender-based or racially-based, all contribute to a higher probability of being targeted.
I do take the point that the teacher you referenced, and yourself - many people in our society who have not been exposed think it cannot happen to them or their families. I think it’s an important message, so I’ll share it here, that it could be anyone. In fact, I had a conversation as recently as last night with a personal contact about sexual assault, broadly, and they made reference to a particular incident that they had become aware of, a friend of theirs. Proper upbringing, recent graduate or near graduate of an undergraduate program, who was being groomed and nearly transitioned into that world. That individual did not necessarily fall into what would be considered the normal or high-risk category of individuals, so that education, that information, that awareness - it’s recognized personally how important that is.
I think those staff members and those working in the space recognize it as well, so point well taken. Again, I hope you realize there are some initiatives that can help support it. There’s always room to do better.
[1:45 p.m.]
KIM MASLAND: I certainly agree, and I think you’ve heard me speak in the House before on many other issues, whether it was opioids or children becoming victims of bullying, drug use. None of us are immune to this happening to our children, so certainly there has to be increased awareness.
I do want to share with you one other conversation I had, because I think it’s really important to take this time to share this information with you as the minister, because this is how we fix things. I had a social worker in my constituency reach out to me last week. She shared with me that she is deeply concerned. She works in our school system and she’s deeply concerned about the increased sexual assaults amongst students, kids who are in the school system. She did talk a little bit about the Kids in the Know program but is disappointed that it hasn’t been rolled out as aggressively as it should be.
I know you mentioned you have partners and everyone works together, and that’s what we have to do in order to tackle these issues, but I’m wondering if there is a plan, especially now that you know this - and maybe you already have - about these increased sexual assaults among students in our school system. Is there a plan for your department to work very closely with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development to make sure that we’re implementing curriculum? I know my colleague from Pictou West, I’m sure she’ll talk about that later with you, but is there a path going forward that you see that you’re going to work more closely together to address these issues?
RANDY DELOREY: Sorry, Mr. Chair, I jumped the gun there. We’re just getting into, like, a coffee chat here with my colleague, so I apologize for that.
Again, another important point. I’m not sure. I’ve been here for just a couple of months, so I’m not sure what conversation or engagement has been had between the two departments to date, but I do know my colleague well. I know he has a strong awareness and background and personal connection to the education system that predates his appointment to that department, and I, too, not just as a parent with children in the education system but I engage there as well.
We know that with the cyber safety legislation that it included provisions to ensure that there are presentations being done in schools and information being brought out to schools. As you mentioned, there are some other formal programs out there. There are steps. Is it enough? How much more needs to be done? I’ll take it a step further. I think, and I anticipate we’re going to have - I know how passionate many members of the Legislature are, so I suspect this will be a frequent theme over the coming hours.
I just want to share this anecdote, so you understand how I’m guided on the principles and how I see things, I guess. Through a conversation I had with a teacher a few months ago, prior to being appointed here, so more of a general conversation, they made a comment about an experience where their child came home - just coincidentally, I suppose, that they happen to be a teacher - but their son came home from elementary school and was crying because some of the children in that school, some of the other boys, called him a girl. A lot of people in society, probably even perhaps some of us in this Legislature, wouldn’t think twice about hearing that on the playground or something. On the spectrum of insults and language used by some children, that would probably seem pretty minor.
The interesting conversation I had took that to another level, making the point that that’s actually the start of gender-based violence. That message delivered by those other children on the playground sends the message to her son that there’s something wrong with being a girl, which implicitly sends the message that there is something superior to being a boy. Not even delving into the conversation of other gender identities and the psychological and social challenges that youth identifying with other genders have, even in the more traditional binary, that imbalance that gets created at such a young age.
I share this story, and I know this is a far jump from a child being called a girl by their playmates on a playground, and I know those youth wouldn’t be thinking about it this way, but we do have to recognize that it is those seemingly simple and oft-overlooked statements that represent the systemic issues we have in our society, oft-accepted language and insults that were jokes, or intended, in days past. There’s more damage done than we normally think about.
I just wanted to let you know - that’s a far cry, that example, from human trafficking and sexualized domestic violence and so forth, but I just wanted to let you know that that awareness of how the seeds get planted and the systemic and societal structures that are in place, and that goes to show how complex it is to tackle these issues in those areas. I just wanted you to be cognizant that I am aware and sensitive and open-minded to that awareness, so that that will help inform the work that I do as we work through these things.
As I mentioned, specifically to the question about programming, we do have the cyber safety legislation and the CyberScan Unit and the work they do with presentations in the schools, which gets done, but also provincial police teams do some training and supports. They’re just not there now with the COVID-19 protocols limiting outside people coming into the school system, so, again, it’s on the radar, they’re aware. I can’t truly speak for my colleague in Education, but I know, again, he’s a father and a strong proponent, even before being appointed Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. These are shared values, I think, of all of us in the Legislature and the Executive Council.
KIM MASLAND: You mentioned cyber safety legislation. You’ve heard me speak about this before. It is something that is very, very close to my heart. You know I had a daughter who was bullied absolutely terribly and there was no one to help back then. Nobody. It was the worst thing you ever could imagine as a parent, not being able to help your child. I’m very passionate about our CyberScan Unit and our cyber safety legislation. The former Minister of Justice is very aware of that as well.
I’m wondering if you can tell me how many applications were received by the CyberScan unit in this last year? I know in the past it was something like 258, but how many applications were received? How many were resolved?
RANDY DELOREY: I don’t have the summary - oh, actually the data’s not collated down. I’d have to do a quick scan on this. There were listed 181 requests to the CyperScan Unit for the calendar - not fiscal - calendar year 2020. January 1, 2020, to December 31, 2020: 181 requests for assistance. Eighty-nine of those cases involved an adult respondent versus an adult victim. I won’t go through all of them, but of the higher numbers, 16 cases were a youth respondent versus a youth victim, and there are some smaller individual ones.
Twenty-seven cases involved an adult victim who did not know the respondent, so, I guess, anonymous bullying or circumstances. Twenty-nine cases involved an outside agency. The others are less than two to five reports in number. I won’t run through all of those.
The outcomes - and I don’t have these broken out by the nature of the request, but I’ll just hit some of the big ones. I’ll conclude with this: there were two open files, so the rest would have been resolved to some degree. The types of resolved cases are where we provide assistance to other agencies that have come in. There are some informal processes - education and mediation and so forth - that would have brought them to resolution. There were about 22 that, through the informal processes, found that the complaints were unfounded, but they did provide advice and assistance to the parties.
There were also takedown notices. There was social media advice and engagement and so forth. Four instances went through the restorative justice process, and there were 10 that were, unfortunately, unresolved because we haven’t been able to identify the respondent. By and large, the agency as a structure to engage and work with the parties to educate and resolve the circumstances without necessarily requiring reports, depending on the circumstances, seems to be relatively successful. As I’ve said, based upon this data, it shows that there are two open files based upon the 2020 submissions, I believe.
KIM MASLAND: We’re hearing a lot from seniors, and actually, before I became an MLA, I spent some time working with the Queens County RCMP detachment in a seniors’ safety capacity, and did a lot of work with seniors on fraud awareness. Fraud and scams, they’re running rampant in our province. Our seniors are becoming victims of these fraudsters daily. I realize that they’re very, very hard to catch, and we have our Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre, but it seems as if more and more seniors are becoming victims. We educate and do everything we can, but is there anything that the department feels they could do to try to find these perpetrators and have them stop, or to further educate seniors? It seems like there are too many seniors being taken by these people.
[2:00 p.m.]
RANDY DELOREY: Thank you for your patience. As the member alluded, I think, to the complexity of particularly the growth of the online scams, which aren’t always digital online, but phone calls often are a starting point for these types of scams. You may think of scenarios where you receive a call - so, imagine yourself as a grandmother or grandfather and you receive a call and someone says your grandchild is in jail and needs some money to bail them out, go on the computer and click this link and send the money, or go to the store and wire the money. You’re not necessarily thinking clearly, so that’s the circumstance and the context.
In terms of how important prevention is in these scenarios, as the member mentioned, we do support our seniors’ safety coordinators across the province. We provide grants and supports in communities, and they deliver programming and supports within communities - grassroots - to reach out to our senior population to try to help inform of these and other types of abuses that could take place. In this example, we’re talking financial.
As it relates to the question of how do we get the perpetrators, it is what makes this very complex because they often, in many cases, transcend national borders. That is, although a call may come to Nova Scotia, the perpetrator is not in Nova Scotia, so there are national and international jurisdictional components. What does happen is they do get investigated. We report the data here up to a federal international fraud program, and they pursue it and take steps to investigate and try to take the steps needed in those countries.
I think it’s well-known that certain international jurisdictions tend to weigh more predominantly, I think, as an originating point for these types of issues. Again, our national partners work to try to tackle it from that way. I know that the RCMP as a national body also work to provide education to the public, how to identify various scams, including email scams and so forth. There are public education initiatives, as well, that take place at the national level out to the general population.
I’ll put this out there, too, as a bit of a reminder: We as MLAs can each work to communicate and support and work with our seniors’ safety coordinators to get some of the information from RCMP or policing agencies, if they have some of that material, and use our offices as MLAs to help distribute and get that information out into the community. I know in my office, anyway, in rural Nova Scotia, many of the in-person visits are from seniors in the community, so it’s a good source point that we can all play as members of the Legislature to support that education initiative.
KIM MASLAND: Can the minister advise if there is a provincial police study being done in the province by an independent group?
RANDY DELOREY: A slightly complex question coming from different perspectives. On the one hand, I know recently - let me back up. Just to make sure that our colleagues - and I know that, as a critic, my colleague likely knows this, but I don’t know that our colleagues necessarily would be aware, so just a brief context for our colleagues. Policing in the province has two key points. There is provincial policing, where the province has a contract with the RCMP to provide policing services in the provincial purview, but then municipally, there are municipal policing requirements, and that’s why you see in some communities a municipal police force. Where I come from, in Antigonish, the municipalities there - the town and the county – actually, their municipal contract is also with the RCMP, so it’s the same agency providing services. In others, like HRM, they have a municipal force.
Recently, there was work being done, or a motion passed by Halifax Regional Municipality council for their municipal police force to conduct a review, so that was a motion there. The other area is, of course, the public inquiry relating to last year’s mass casualty incident. Obviously, at this point in time, really the anniversary period, but that commission’s terms of reference includes a provision to evaluate policing services. That is an independent body. I guess, getting to the heart of the question, I don’t know if the member was asking more on that municipal level, so I used the HRM example just to let her know that’s happening.
In the mass casualty public inquiry, there are terms of reference for that inquiry to look at policing across the province, and that is an independent body and process.
KIM MASLAND: I want to talk about mental health liaison officers. At the local hospital, there is a full-time mental health liaison officer at the CBRM. We know that many of our officers are being held up for a long a time on many occasions at local hospitals, which is creating tremendous overtime and burnout of our officers trying to backfill those positions when the officers are supposed to be on shift the next day, but they’ve worked 17 hours that day. Is there any consideration of the province to look at putting mental health liaison officers in our regional hospitals?
RANDY DELOREY: Specific resources that are deployed within our hospital infrastructure or hospital sites fall to the Nova Scotia Health Authority and the IWK Health Centre. They would identify the resource needs. Obviously, those resources are predominantly medical in medical facilities, and they bring their budgetary requests and needs to the Department of Health and Wellness to pursue.
If you’re looking at something like a dedicated police service, it would really be at the request of our health system identifying that as a need and a priority, if they needed policing services or supports on site. To my knowledge, I can say I haven’t had conversations with the Nova Scotia Health Authority, either in my previous role or in my current one. In other words, that specific conversation hasn’t come up, to my knowledge.
KIM MASLAND: I am fully aware that there are many officers who are held up for hours at hospitals with a patient. I just think that you’re in a great role now, Minister. You have that Health and Wellness background and now you’ll have the Justice portfolio to really figure out how to resolve this issue, because it is an issue amongst officers. They spend a tremendous amount of time, an awful lot like our EHS, our paramedics, spend a tremendous amount of time waiting to offload when they want to be on the street. It’s the same as our police officers. Just something that I think you’re in a role now with the background knowledge to try to change.
Very quickly, because I know my time is running out: Can the minister advise on the status of the courthouse in Shelburne?
RANDY DELOREY: Two quick things: One, a little bit in response to the previous one, and then a request for clarification. As it relates to the police officers piece, I do take the member’s suggestion. Noted. I do think that is an area of conversation specifically not just necessarily in the hospitals context, but more broadly about police and the role that policing provides in mental health response, in crisis response. It’s not just in a hospital environment. I think there are aspects and elements that I’m aware of as well when responding to individuals in crisis. When there’s a risk to an individual or to others, police are the lead there.
I know there’s a lot of discussion and work about where the line is. On the one hand, it’s a mental health crisis. That’s not necessarily the expertise of police individuals on the front line, but we have mental health experts who don’t have the safety training necessarily to enter into an unsafe environment. It’s this challenging environment to ensure that we provide the help individuals need, whether it’s in a hospital environment or in community. I do hope that I’m able to work within the department and with our partners in the Department of Health and Wellness as we continue always to look for improvements and make some progress there.
To the member’s question, I apologize for the specific on this one, the courthouse. What context? I’m not sure what you mean by “the status.” Do you have something specific that was supposed to be done there or that is ongoing?
KIM MASLAND: There was a situation at one point of trying to look at moving the courthouse and the municipality building. Are there still court services being offered in Shelburne?
RANDY DELOREY: I’ve got the context. I appreciate that. My understanding is that services are still provided at Shelburne. Obviously with COVID-19, as with many locations, there may also be other means, so there may still be virtual sessions taking place when appropriate and so forth. It doesn’t mean everything is necessarily heard there.
To your point about some work or evaluations about the location, my understanding is that the Department of Infrastructure and Housing is obviously responsible for infrastructure for government proper, but also our partners in the third branch of government, the court services.
They’re still looking and in discussions about a potential new space, but there hasn’t been a final decision. I will assure the member that should negotiations on a final or new home be locked in, we will be communicating that publicly.
KIM MASLAND: The minister mentioned in his opening remarks some of the things that he’s responsible for, and one of those is the Nova Scotia Police Complaints Commissioner. I’m wondering: How many complaints has the Nova Scotia Police Complaints Commissioner received over the past year, and how many were not investigated?
[2:15 p.m.]
RANDY DELOREY: I do just want to highlight - I know I referenced in terms of being responsible for the commission, but I want to make sure everybody is clear on the fact that the commission operates independently, though. It really is just like the Human Rights Commission, the Serious Incident Response Team (SiRT), and others. These are actually independent bodies. However, as legislation created or established these bodies, it also identifies their independence. It just needed a “home,” particularly from a budgetary perspective, to fall through. Responsibility is predominantly just in terms of ensuring they have the financial resources and so forth, as the minister responsible for that legislation that it comes to.
As far as the data on the specific numbers, I don’t have that with me. I know we have some more time, so I’ve asked staff to try to pull it together. I’ll probably do a little intervention when I get that data. Even if it’s on someone else’s answer, I will try to get it as part of our discussion later today.
THE CHAIR: The member for Queens-Shelburne with about six minutes left.
KIM MASLAND: Six minutes, wow. What can you get said in six minutes?
I’m going to move on to maintenance enforcement. What percentage of court-ordered child and spousal support cases are currently in arrears? Sorry, minister, I didn’t mean to make you laugh.
RANDY DELOREY: Just looking up that information, Mr. Chair. I’m sorry I was giggling earlier. I think my colleagues on the session here would like to comment on what I can say in six minutes, and I think most of them say I can clear my throat in six minutes. Just one second, I think I have the data.
There are different ways - I think in the Legislature I commented at one point about “lies, damned lies, and statistics.” You can slice this information in a number of different ways, so I’ll respond to it in a couple of ways. From a fiscal, financial amount, there are just under $52 million in total arrears, and this is up to February 2021. This data is current to February 2021. Just under $52 million - $51.9 million total. That is a decrease of about 18 per cent from March 2018, so we’re moving in the right direction.
You could also ask that question from a slightly different perspective, which is: How many cases are in arrears? That number is 4,443. It is a decrease of almost 30 per cent from March 2018. I think that was the question that you had, but some relevant stuff: We’ve increased the number of enforcement actions that we’ve taken. I don’t have the relative increase, but it’s at 22,500. The percentage of cases where arrears have reduced - we’ve reduced in cases, so the arrears might still exist, but the dollar figure of those arrears has gone down in 42 per cent of the cases at the end of fiscal 2020, at the end of Q3. We have an increase of 45 per cent from March 2018 - there are 53 per cent of active cases with no arrears. That’s a 45 per cent increase in the number of cases with no arrears.
I know the question was about the status of arrears, but I thought it was also important to highlight the improvements of the cases without arrears. To put all of this in context, the arrears levels in maintenance enforcement are the lowest they’ve been in over 15 years.
KIM MASLAND: I’m extremely pleased to see that, minister. That is great work. It’s definitely going in the right direction. How many of those cases that are in arrears would be interjurisdictional - cases where the children would live here in Nova Scotia but the payer would be in Alberta or a different province? I know those sometimes can become even more difficult to collect, so if you could give me the number of those cases.
RANDY DELOREY: I’m going to look into those numbers. I’m going to jump back to the earlier question, though. I did get the information that had been requested. In 2020, the Office of the Police Complaints Commissioner received 138 complaints from the public and 40 internal complaints. Of those, 27 complaints were dismissed - I don’t have the details as to the breakdown of reason for that - seven were abandoned, and seven were withdrawn. To put the number of complaints in context, in 2019 there was a total of 177 complaints. There is a reduction of about 39 fewer complaints in 2020 versus the previous year.
As it relates to the maintenance enforcement interjurisdictional, I don’t have that information on hand here, but I will note that from a financial amount, $25.8 million is the amount that’s being enforced by other jurisdictions on behalf of Nova Scotia. I don’t necessarily have the case number, but that’s the fiscal amount that is being enforced by other jurisdictions.
KIM MASLAND: Can the minister tell me quickly how many officers have been trained as drug recognition experts (DREs)?
RANDY DELOREY: If I don’t get it before the time elapses, I will try to sneak it in on the next member’s end.
THE CHAIR: Order, please. The time for the PC caucus for their hour has expired.
The honourable member for Dartmouth South, with 12 minutes before we go into our COVID-19 break.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’ve enjoyed listening to this exchange. Welcome to the portfolio, minister. I want to thank the member for Queens-Shelburne, who always advocates so strongly from her personal experience. I think that’s really making a difference and I appreciate it. I just want to mention that. For those of us with children in the Chamber, that’s so much of what drives us, so I’m always touched to hear you advocate for the experiences that your daughter went through.
I want to begin today by asking about some community supports, particularly for criminalized folks. We’ve talked about this a little bit in the session - I’m including in Question Period - but at the onset of the pandemic, Coverdale and the Elizabeth Fry Society, who both work with criminalized women, were federally funded to provide housing and wraparound services to people released from custody. The courts and particularly Judge Williams did a really amazing job in avoiding a catastrophic consequence in our jails in terms of COVID-19 transmission, at least so far, with those releases.
When that federal funding was ending, the Deputy Minister of Justice wrote her counterparts across government urging the Province to step in. All those releases, that was a provincial action, but all of those folks were housed with federal funds. When those federal funds dried up, there were no provincial funds. As we know, we are in the midst of an extraordinarily tight housing market, particularly in the HRM, and a lot of those folks were coming from Burnside. The deputy minister requested help and approval from Finance and Treasury Board to distribute funds without delay, and that request was denied. I’m wondering if the minister can explain why that was. Why did the Province not step in to support housing these folks who are on remand, who did not pose a threat to the public, and who were not in a correctional facility both because they didn’t have to be but also for their own safety?
RANDY DELOREY: I’m going to apologize quickly. To the previous member’s question, there are about 80 active DREs in Nova Scotia.
To the specific question about the services, first and foremost, as I noted in my opening remarks, we obviously rely on our partner organizations like Elizabeth Fry’s Holly House, and so forth. They’ve served us and served the people of Nova Scotia very well to help ensure access to justice, but also improve really what is an important component of our justice system, which is not punishment but rehabilitation and the probability of success. Our best outcome is to result in resolving underlying issues that may have led to the engagement. We know our partners like Elizabeth Fry perform these works.
I think it’s important to note that as government, we actually just, earlier to that request, increased our funding to Elizabeth Fry and Holly House by over $350,000 for some specific provincial programs and so forth. I hope the members here can appreciate the challenge it is for a government to be in a position to cover funding cuts from other entities. We have to work to build our budget and our priorities and our initiatives within the frameworks and priorities and so forth that we have and work to do that in conjunction with partners and provide funding and so forth.
Unfortunately, in the Department of Justice, we don’t have really much of a funding bucket that I would classify as grants, which would provide us with a certain level of flexibility or freedom to be responsive to unanticipated requests for additional funding with our partners. But as it relates to the specific request that the member referenced, I think it’s also important to note: I believe the Department of Community Services or the Advisory Council on the Status of Women has provided some additional funding as well just in recent weeks. From a program and a policy perspective, as the member noted, what had been rolled out as part of the pandemic was rolled out fairly quickly.
What we’re working on and trying to establish from a provincial perspective, recognizing the potential value, is something with permanency and sustainability that we can work with our partners to achieve those outcomes. I believe work is still ongoing, but we’re looking at long-term holistic steps to achieve the objectives that the member is referencing and the outcome.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I thank the minister for that answer, but I feel like there’s a lot to unpack in it. I’m just going to take a minute and do that. One of the things is that the funding that was granted to Elizabeth Fry, which is in my constituency, while I know it was welcome and a great step for government, was not in fact an increase.
If you look at the ways that the Elizabeth Fry Society had patched together funding through the years from various government departments, that announcement of stable funding - which is something we’ve advocated for, which is great - was necessary but wasn’t a massive increase. I just want to clarify that. It about equalled the amount of government support they’d been getting in a patchwork of ways that administratively was much more burdensome.
[2:30 p.m.]
That money also wasn’t about housing. That was really money that the government needed to be providing to Elizabeth Fry, in my view. I know that I’ve had this conversation with the minister in his former portfolio as the Department of Health and Wellness. It’s our assumption that when the government refers to its “partners,” they are partners.
In this case, with folks like Elizabeth Fry and Coverdale, courts will mandate that they take certain courses, that people being released from incarceration will take certain courses or complete certain things that they do through Holly House and Elizabeth Fry. To me, it follows that those organizations should be funded to provide those courses if they are being ordered by the government.
We’re glad to see that, but also, again, I want to clarify that this question is not related to the Nova Scotia Law Foundation cuts that these organizations received. That’s another question I have, and yes, that wasn’t government funding. This is specifically around housing.
I’m glad to see the minister acknowledge the need for a longer-term, more sustainable solution. That solution is some kind of community-based bail housing. At the federal level, when people are on remand and they’re considered low-risk or they have significant medical issues - I know there are people in Burnside who are ill and in their 80s and they’re not going anywhere, but there is no program to release them safely into the community. That was sort of something that came together in a patchwork with this federal funding, but that hasn’t been continued.
The minister alluded to the fact that they were looking at a more permanent solution. I’m hoping this is what he’s referring to. I’m wondering if the minister can tell me about any conversations he’s engaged with around this, and particularly whether organizations serving women are involved, because I know that there is a table, but the last I heard, neither Coverdale nor Elizabeth Fry was at that table.
THE CHAIR: Order, please. Again, we’ve reached the time for our COVID-19 break. That will give the minister more time to get the answer for the honourable member, so we’re back again at 2:50 p.m.
[2:35 p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]
[2:51 p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]
THE CHAIR: The Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply will resume. The minister is going to respond to the honourable member for Dartmouth South.
RANDY DELOREY: To the member opposite, I apologize. This is why I asked for the clock at the beginning. I honestly didn’t realize the clock was running out.
Looking at the conversation, I don’t know if I remember the specific details of the question, but in essence around funding towards Elizabeth Fry as it relates to the housing initiative that took place during the first wave of the pandemic, I guess the context around that initiative when it took place, I think, is relevant to where we’re at now. That initiative as it took place was specifically around the COVID-19 response and what was going on at that time. It was multidepartmental and it did rely on - not infrastructure at Elizabeth Fry, but, I believe, on hotel-based environments and space.
I think there are a multitude of factors. When the funding for that wrapped up, obviously the pandemic status, the epidemiology, and so forth all have evolved as well. As the multiple departments looked and evaluated and came up with some decisions, the decision actually was not simply a no, but rather an acknowledgement of how there may be value in these types of services on a go-forward basis. But if we’re going to look at them on a go-forward basis, we need to look at them in a sustainable way and not simply in a short-term context.
Work is still evaluating and looking at that, as we do with lots of other services and programs that we’re trying to accomplish. As I said earlier, it’s not just about - many people assume that our justice system is about punishment, the whole theory of crime and punishment, and in fact that’s not what modern justice is about. Justice is about more than that, and indeed rehabilitation and reintegration into society. Our ultimate goal is to have people - so as I’ve said, and I think there might be a little differentiation on the funding.
I think the department believes that there was an increase in funding, although some of it pulls it together. I believe there’s an increase to allow for an increase in the number of beds from, I believe, about eight to 10 or 11 beds. If you do that on a per-bed capacity, you’re looking at a 20 to 30 per cent increase that that went to. I think in the main Chamber, the Speaker would argue that perhaps we have a disagreement of fact here in terms of the interpretation of that funding.
How this conversation takes place is also important, because there are so many funding sources. I think the member actually highlighted streamlining the funding process. I thank her for highlighting that, because it’s something I personally am passionate about, especially from previous departments where we have lots of community organizations that we’re funding. The administrative burden for people who are doing the great work that we rely on them to do in these community organizations - and this isn’t just at Justice. This is more broad than that. If we can take down some of those barriers and get more sustainable - that’s why, back to the specific question, we’re so focused on looking at what the sustainable solution to the policy objective we’re pursuing is. I think there’s a certain degree of agreement on the policy in principle. Timing and specifics are where we’re perhaps at a different point at this point in time.
THE CHAIR: Before I recognize the honourable member for Dartmouth South, I’m wondering if Ms. Lohnes-Croft would mind taking over as Chair. I have a few questions I want to ask in the main Chamber. The member for Dartmouth South goes until 3:38 p.m., and then that will be turned over to the member for Truro-Bible Hill-Millbrook-Salmon River. The next break is at 3:50 p.m., but I should be back before then.
SUZANNE LOHNES-CROFT: Millbrook-Salmon-Truro-Salmon River?
THE CHAIR: Truro-Bible Hill-Millbrook-Salmon River.
KIM MASLAND: Actually, Mr. Speaker, it’s going to be the member for Inverness.
THE CHAIR: Okay, it will be the member for Inverness. I’m sorry . . .
SUZANNE LOHNES-CROFT: At 3:38 p.m.
THE CHAIR: Yes, and I apologize to the member for Dartmouth South. I’ll let you ask your question now. Ms. Lohnes-Croft can take over.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I guess just to reiterate the question that I was asking before the break - I see the former minister here who will be very familiar with my pestering as it relates to funding for Elizabeth Fry and Holly House, but just to reiterate, my question was about that sustainable conversation that you once again alluded to at the very end of your remarks.
What does that look like? Who are you talking to? Is the Province considering a community-based bail program? Who’s at the table? Who are you talking to? Briefly if possible, because I would like to move on to some other things.
RANDY DELOREY: My specific comment was in reference to my personal mindset and approach and desires. I’ve only been in for a couple of months, so I can’t say that I’ve initiated or taken steps down that path. I was talking more broadly and conceptually about how I try to operate and try to streamline. I think it is advantageous for our partners, but also for our organization as well and government proper, so it is something I’ve been passionate about. I did have some success at the Department of Health and Wellness in streamlining some of that work there. It’s not perfect, but continuous improvement.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I have one more question in this area, but I would say, I think as I said before the break, I know that there are conversations going on in Corrections around a provincial bail program. The last I heard, there were no women-serving organizations at that table. My hope would be that if they’re not already, that they could be. We often see in lots of our provincial departments in the world that we design things around men and then we adapt them to women, and I’m hoping that we don’t do that here. We are hoping that we can come up with a streamlined, clear, compassionate community bail program for provincial jails, and that that can happen collaboratively with the most diverse group of stakeholders.
Moving on, I just want to flag for the minister - I’m guessing you don’t have a response, but if the minister does, that’s great - that we’ve discovered recently that the Metro Regional Housing Authority, and I’m not sure about the rest of Housing Nova Scotia, but for MRHA, their guidelines say that tenants shall not use their unit for the purposes of meeting bail conditions, house arrest, or other legal proceedings without prior written permission of the property manager.
As you can imagine, that permission is rarely granted. Placing those kinds of barriers means that our provincial jails become homeless shelters. If you talk to a lot of folks who are working on the front lines, they will say that this is happening, even people within Corrections. Given the housing shortage, given these restrictive conditions on public housing, people have nowhere to go. Even if they have been arrested for a relatively minor infraction and are awaiting trial, we know there are delays. They can’t get out. I’m wondering if the minister could briefly comment on whether he’s had a conversation with his colleagues in Infrastructure and Housing, or if he could.
[3:00 p.m.]
RANDY DELOREY: At this point, again, as the member knows, we’ve been quite busy the last month or so since we transitioned on budget and legislative duties, so I haven’t had conversations specifically or directly with my colleague. But yes, there are obviously, as I mentioned in our previous conversation about, broadly speaking, from a Justice perspective, housing is something we became particularly acutely aware of during the COVID-19 pandemic, particularly in the first wave.
That’s obviously something we are working on as a government. We’re trying to tackle and pull down barriers in services across multiple departments. Those types of conversations, I think, happen at the staff and ministerial level - honestly, I would say more seamlessly today than they did even seven or eight years ago when I first came into government.
Also, we work with Corrections and the Nova Scotia Affordable Housing Commission as well, and again having these conversations, but again, we really started this work about a year ago in the short-term context of a COVID-19 response. What we’ve learned from that and took from that was - again, in the scheme of things it’s relatively new, but work is ongoing.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I wanted to just take a moment to thank your staff. This is a strange Estimates period, because usually we see everyone in the room, but we only have a window to the minister, so thank you to all the department staff who are there and tuning in.
I want to ask something related to a bill that we brought in, but also it’s an issue that we’ve heard a lot about, which is the fact that our Municipal Elections Act does not permit incarcerated people to vote, which is in direct contravention of the Supreme Court of Canada. The Supreme Court of Canada ruled in 2002 that not giving incarcerated people the right to vote was a violation of their Charter rights, provided they’re 18 years and older. Our Municipal Elections Act doesn’t permit that.
It’s an easy legislative fix. It’s one we’ve asked for. That Act has been opened up in the last couple of years and that fix was not made. I’m wondering if the minister can tell us why, and if and when the department intends to make that fix.
RANDY DELOREY: As the member noted, it was a question pertaining to the Municipal Elections Act. I believe that Act falls under the Department of Municipal Affairs. It’s not the Nova Scotia Elections Act, which falls under my purview and Elections Nova Scotia.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I see the Minister of Municipal Affairs here on the line, so hopefully he’ll have time to do some preparation and to answer that question. The Department of Justice would provide a legal opinion on that. I’m assuming that opinion would be in line with the Supreme Court of Canada, so we would hope to see a change there.
In particular, I just want to note that this government is making a commitment to equity. Hopefully we’ll have time later to get into the disproportionate makeup of the folks in prison, but we know that Indigenous and Black people tend to be very overrepresented in those environments, so this is an equity issue as much as it’s a Charter issue.
To that end, I just want to again raise the issue of the video that was released from Burnside a couple of weeks ago that appears to have been taken by Corrections staff there, ridiculing an inmate who has her medical needs, and clearly identifying that woman. When I asked about this, I was told that there will be an investigation, so I’m going to ask the minister again if the results of that investigation will be made public so that we can deal with the underlying systemic issues that allow something like that to happen.
RANDY DELOREY: I think this is a particular circumstance that is perhaps more complex than what it might appear on the surface when it comes to investigating and so forth. To the specific question of the information that gets released as part of the report, this is a unionized environment, so there are aspects that tie us in and around workplace issues and so forth that trigger, again, privacy and things. In that context, obviously there’s privacy, certainly as it relates to individuals in the video and beyond and how things transpired. We know that the Privacy Office has initiated an independent review from that privacy lens there.
There are a lot of complexities, so I can’t comment now as to whether the substance gets released publicly, in part or in full, until I see what the final results of a report are. What I have to say is that anything that gets released publicly has to adhere to those privacy components as well and other legislation that may be in place here. I know it’s what the member wants, but I can’t blanket-say that the investigation report will be blanket-released.
What I can say, and I think my track record shows, in other departments when I had reviews and stuff, I do make information be implemented as best I can, and that work - at minimum, information about the report and findings. But I can’t say the report itself is released because of all those other privacy things that might override such a thing, and I don’t know the answer to that until I see the actual report.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I appreciate that answer. Certainly, we will be making the same request of the union. We would not want to violate anyone’s privacy, but we want to learn from what happened, and while it is an isolated incident, it also reflects, we believe, some pretty serious systemic issues. I will take the minister at his word that what is able to be shared will be shared, not just with us but with relevant front-facing organizations who can help to unpack and untangle and hopefully fix some of those systemic issues.
I just want to go back. We were talking earlier about the number of people in our provincial jails - particularly in Burnside, which borders my constituency of Dartmouth North - who are on remand. I wonder if the minister can provide an update of the percentage of people in provincial jails currently who are there on remand awaiting trial, not convicted.
THE CHAIR: Minister, I’d just like to let you know that you can take some time to think about your response. It’s a little different, where you normally would stand up and then you would be recognized, so please feel comfortable taking a little bit of time.
The honourable minister.
RANDY DELOREY: I think most of the colleagues on here would suggest that I take lots of time in my response, so I try to be efficient in getting to the microphone.
THE CHAIR: I understand.
RANDY DELOREY: Notwithstanding that point, the member’s question was the number of people in custody, so I know . . .
CLAUDIA CHENDER: On remand.
RANDY DELOREY: . . . the specific question was remand. In custody, it’s 377, and 276 are on remand. I didn’t do the math. I think the question was the percentage. I hope the member can do the division. I just didn’t do the percentage.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’m going to take a page out of my colleague for Dartmouth North’s playbook here and I’m going to divide 276 by 377, and I’m going to get to 73 per cent. So 73 per cent of the people in our provincial correctional facilities have not been convicted of a crime.
We know anecdotally that lots of those folks are there for a breach or what most people would consider minor, so we are hopeful that that number will decrease and that there will be an opportunity for people to - to the minister’s point, I think the aspiration is certainly for the correctional environment to be rehabilitative, but we’ve got a long way to go. That is not the experience of the vast majority who find themselves there.
Until we can either radically change our system or create the aspirational situation that the minister is referring to, I think our best hope is for some kind of community-based release situation where the public is safe, where people are safe, where they have access to the services they need. We know that, particularly when we’re talking about criminalized women, most of them - the vast majority of them - are survivors of trauma and abuse and need wraparound supports. It is rare they can get those supports in the full measure when they are, in fact, incarcerated. Hopefully that percentage goes down.
I want to move on to a couple of questions about policing. We’re all in the COVID-19 time warp, but sometime in the last couple of years, we were pleased to see the government change the time frame - and I think the minister referred to this in his opening comments - to synchronize the complaint time between the RCMP and police, particularly because we have these joint forces. This was in response, of course, to the case of Carrie Low, who went public after she couldn’t bring a complaint and it became very difficult.
We had put in a legislative proposal around this, so we were really glad to see the government bring it in, but one part of our legislative proposal where the change wasn’t made was around the issue of discoverability. We have a discoverability act, which basically means that - I’m not explaining this to the minister, I’m just saying this as part of my question - the time frames that run in most statutes in Nova Scotia run from the time that the issue was discovered. That is not the case in this Police Act. In the Police Act, it runs from the time that the incident occurred.
The problem with that is for someone like Carrie Low, she did not know there was a miscarriage of justice until after such time as her limitation period would have elapsed. One of our requests was to add the principle of discoverability into the Police Act. The time frames have been synchronized, and that’s good, that’s a positive change, but those time frames should run from the time when a person who feels themselves to have been wronged is alerted of that. Often, just from my own limited dealings with law enforcement, if you have an issue and you contact law enforcement, then the response - which is justified in lots of circumstances - is, let me take that away, we’re going to look into it, we’re going to investigate, and we’ll keep you apprised as needed. As a complainant, you don’t have a window into what’s happening in your case, so if there’s a miscarriage, it may be a long time before you discover that.
It’s a long preamble, but I wonder if the minister can comment on whether that change is still being contemplated, and if not, why not.
[3:15 p.m.]
RANDY DELOREY: I thank the member for the question and the context for our colleagues, so I won’t delve into that. Suffice to say, I think there are two points to be made in response to the inquiry. The first is, if the change around discoverability in the police complaints process was to be made, as the member has advocated for, then the provisions would no longer be synchronized between the different policing agencies, the RCMP being a federal force where the complaints process and so forth is managed there. If we were to make that change, it would apply only to the municipal policing forces and it would not apply to the RCMP, so we would no longer be in synchronization. I just wanted to be cognizant of that point.
The other thing that I think the member may not have noted about the language that did get updated and the way that we’re actually structured - although she’s correct in her description of time periods, of when the incident occurs versus when you’re aware of the incident, I want to present another scenario where in either of those cases, whether the incident occurred or when a victim or an advocate may have become aware of a wrong, in some instances the individual may have context where even with awareness they might be traumatized or have other factors that may still prevent them from lodging a complaint within that time period.
What we actually have, which went into effect in January provisions, actually gives the Police Complaints Commissioner the discretion to waive and take into account the individual circumstances and context, and define or take on - so in other words, my point is that the language in there around the timing is not hard and fast and restrictive in the way it once was. It does provide that flexibility and provisions to take into context, which would go even further than what was proposed by the member around that time period. We believe that the flexibility addresses that concern when it would be applicable to the commission.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I thank the minister for that thoughtful answer. I think the problem with discretion is that it’s discretionary. I think it’s a good provision and I’m glad it’s there, but it’s highly subjective. I would just urge the minister, to the extent that it’s possible, to work with his federal counterparts to make those changes concurrently, so that it is harmonized and so that it is fairer. Trauma is one thing, and it’s important. It doesn’t always overlap with this discoverability issue. We’ll continue to advocate for that, but I do appreciate the context and the information.
I’ve asked the minister about the public review of policing services. In addition to the terrible anniversary that we will be marking this weekend, there have been other issues around the RCMP in the last year. I think we talked about it a little bit in the Chamber. There were raids conducted in Dartmouth and Halifax that weren’t coordinated with local policing, and there seems to be a little bit of an upswell of questions around our policing contracts and a policing review.
I’m wondering again whether the minister will commit to a review of policing services just so that we can have a sense of where we are in terms of provincial policing and where we want to go.
RANDY DELOREY: As was noted, prior to assuming my role and responsibility as the Minister of Justice, my predecessor did note - and I think it’s consistent with the work of any minister in any department, doing some work internally to evaluate within our policing services. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, policing services and public safety are an area of responsibility, one of many areas, and within that context, establishing an internal evaluation and seeing what things look like - that information internally helps inform us as to what we do more broadly and so forth.
That’s just part of regular operational processes. We would look at other parts and areas of services that we provide to say, okay, what are we trying to accomplish here? Where we fit into our objectives, my mandate makes it very clear - Justice plans around Indigenous and African Nova Scotian justice plans that set the stage forward. I have to do this work with the department to evaluate and analyze what’s currently in place and what the strategic direction or priorities of where we’re going to go in the future are. That internal analysis, that step that was initiated by my predecessor, is under way now. Where that will go, to the member’s question in terms of a public review or what have you, should be very clear.
We do have, as the member mentioned, a contract provincially with the RCMP. There are contractual provisions in there when one talks about a contractual review or a review under the contractual terms, so they’re very specific provisions and context that that kind of review stipulates. At this point, we’re in the preliminary stage of just departmental continuous improvement, analyzing policing, just as we do in any other part of the work that we do as a department to evaluate.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: With all due respect, I do think that the issues that have been raised around the RCMP in the last year in this province are public issues and they concern public safety. I think, therefore, that any review needs to be public. I understand that we have contracts, but I also understand that your predecessor was a lifetime RCMP member, and there have been questions raised about the ability to undertake that kind of review as minister, understandably, when you have been part of the force for the majority of your career.
I just want to put a fine point on this request for a public review. Of course, I would certainly hope that the department would be internally reviewing policing services all the time. That makes sense, and that’s important, but the public has a lot of questions. We are not demanding a specific action of any kind, but we are asking for a public review, both in terms of resource allocation and taxpayer dollars, public safety, all of the goals that we have around public safety and policing. We want to understand how those are being achieved for Nova Scotians, given our current system and given the public challenges that have been identified. We would continue to ask for a fully public review.
Moving on, our caucus filed an FOI for documents and correspondence related to tickets and fines under the Health Protection Act and the Emergency Management Act, so those are the COVID-19 tickets that have been given out. The information we received included an email from April 2020, so that would have been probably from your predecessor, stating that the minister was concerned about police targeting marginalized communities based on anecdotal stories.
In response, which we think is great, the department began tracking the summary offence tickets in what they referred to as marginalized communities, which I think include many of our historically African Nova Scotian communities - north end Dartmouth, north end Halifax, Preston, and Cherry Brook, and also Millbrook and Eskasoni, which as we know are First Nations communities. At that time within HRM, tickets issued in Cherry Brook and Preston and north Dartmouth and north Halifax made up 22 per cent of the Health Protection tickets that were issued in the province.
In light of that, I’m wondering if the minister could explain what, if any, steps were taken to address concerns that racialized communities may have been targeted in enforcement. We appreciate keeping track of those tickets by location, but certainly we see massive concerns around this in large jurisdictions like Ontario, not just around enforcement, but also around vaccination and other things. We want to be aware of the racialized dimensions of this pandemic. I’m wondering what response came from the department.
RANDY DELOREY: I want to take a quick moment back to the inquiry piece, just to put the final dot on that first.
To the member’s point, and I think this was a response earlier in this session with the previous member asking questions, and I didn’t include it in my response, but there is also a public inquiry ongoing. One of the terms of reference of that inquiry, which is public, which is independent, and which does span policing services in the province, is under way, so there is a public review under way that is independent and separate from us. That is one of the terms and conditions around the public review pertaining to the mass casualty event from last year. As the member noted in the question and the context of it in the response was about it being a public safety issue, and that’s exactly what that public inquiry is evaluating.
I’d like to make one other point that was brought up, just in response to - I can appreciate the member’s reference to my predecessor, who initiated the internal work, and his previous career, but I do take a little bit of exception to the suggestion - I appreciate and understand the language was at questions being raised about his ability to perform his duties based upon a previous career. Knowing my colleague, I can assure the member and all the members here in the public that he is a man of character and integrity. By all accounts, people I’ve bumped into who have known my colleague in his previous career speak about his commitment to the people of Nova Scotia and Canada, and indeed, service that he provided on behalf of Canada internationally, I believe through some UN initiatives.
There’s absolutely nothing in my colleague’s track record that should raise question or concern about his integrity and capacity and willingness to fulfill his duties and service to the people of Nova Scotia, either in his past career or in his current career. I’d also highlight and stress that, as it relates specifically to his tenure as the Minister of Justice and Attorney General for the Province of Nova Scotia, he did engage with the Conflict of Interest Commissioner. I believe he’s publicly reported on the fact that the Conflict of Interest Commissioner himself has clearly delineated the fact that his previous career in no way represents an actual or a perceived conflict of interest, nor should it.
[3:30 p.m.]
While I appreciate that the member’s comment was not specific, not suggesting herself that there was a conflict, merely raising the point that there were questions, I just wanted to be on the record. Merely stating the fact that there were questions without putting the context around the fact that those questions would be unfounded and that the member took the appropriate steps and also is an honourable member of the Legislature, and indeed, I don’t think he needed to be appointed to Executive Council to earn that honour. I think with his distinguished career in law enforcement on behalf of Nova Scotians and the country, he earned that title long before he joined Executive Council. Those are just final comments or thoughts on that point.
As it relates to the specific question here on the COVID-19 Public Health summary offence tickets, as the member noted, we did review the data. The analysis did not find any indication or trends that would suggest that there was any targeting in marginalized populations or communities.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’ve been the Justice Critic for four years, so I know the former minister pretty well in that role and was not impugning his ability to do his job. It was only specifically in reference to the notion of that inquiry that questions had been raised, but I appreciate your comments.
To that, in fact, the former minister mentioned before he departed his role, and we appreciated this comment, that this was an appropriate time to revisit and determine the role police play in responding to mental health calls. This has also been an issue this year. We’ve heard two Nova Scotia police chiefs say that they also have concerns about whether or not their officers are properly equipped to deal with mental health crises.
I’m wondering, and I know the minister probably has a view on this from his former department as well: What options are being considered by the department as alternatives, and is there money in this budget allocated to solve this issue?
RANDY DELOREY: I think this is roughly where we left off with the previous member’s questions. That question previously was specifically about officers responding to mental health in hospital settings, where I think the member’s question now is in a community setting. In my earlier response, what I highlighted is a recognition of both, and as the member duly noted, I think my previous role suits very well to this opportunity. But it is very early stages.
I appreciate the specific question about money in the budget to solve this issue. I think there are many complexities around this issue. We look at it from the lens of the police agencies and engaging, but I think the reason the system has evolved for police services to respond is because of the question of public safety and their role and responsibility of public safety when an individual potentially represents a risk of harm to themselves or somebody else. That’s the public safety aspect rather than the mental health piece.
I know that’s where the question and the conversations go down. The police agencies are saying, we’re not mental health experts, we shouldn’t be the ones responding to a mental health crisis situation, but they’re not responding as the mental health interventionist. They’re responding as the public safety component.
If I just for a moment flip that scenario on its head and say that police are hypothetically not the appropriate entities, it’s a public health, a mental health, situation - so we send mental health experts into the situation, but the situation at the time is a safety one. The individual represents harm. Those mental health professionals, while they have the mental health training and expertise for interventions, don’t necessarily have the public safety components to keep themselves and others safe. That’s why this is such a complex situation to find out how we can best respond.
What I can say is I think I have a fair understanding, conceptually, of the challenge and of the perspectives of the employees both on the mental health services side, on the police services side, of advocates, and those - it’s a challenge sometimes for those individuals suffering from mental health crises, particularly of such an acute nature, but those who are advocating on their behalf in these situations, and I don’t have the solutions. I don’t know that it’s necessarily always dollars to the member’s question, if we need budget to solve the problem, but we do need work and we need attention, and we are in the early stages of looking at it, and again, I believe from my past role, I’m well-positioned to participate in the justice system to try to find a path forward.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I know my time is running short. The budget question was more to point you at specific initiatives, so I’m hopeful that we’ll see some of those come forward soon.
Quickly if I can in the time left, I want to ask: Last September, the former Premier, the member for Annapolis as he is known now, issued a public apology for systemic racism, and at that time he announced a design team that would reimagine the justice system in Nova Scotia. We’re six months into the mandate of that team, and I was wondering if the minister could provide an update on that work.
RANDY DELOREY: As the member knows, a lot has changed in the province and the government since last September. What I can assure the member and all of our colleagues is that tackling systemic racism - I’ll refer to my opening remarks as to how important this is, that I wanted to highlight it myself, highlight right up to our current Premier, which I think is a continuation of our previous Premier’s and this government’s commitment to tackle these issues. Mandate letters, many of them, including my own as the Minister of Justice, to advance African Nova Scotian and Indigenous justice plans that are really designed to target the reform that’s needed in our justice system to tackle those systemic barriers.
I guess I summarize it as this: Our justice system has far too little representation of many communities in the legal profession, and far overrepresented . . .
THE CHAIR: Order. Time has elapsed for the NDP. We will turn it over to the Progressive Conservative Party.
The honourable member for Inverness. You have just under 12 minutes before our COVID break.
ALLAN MACMASTER: My questions are related to your role as Minister Responsible for the Elections Act for the coming year. The question I have is around proclamation of the bill that was passed a year ago around changes made to the Elections Act, which was Bill No. 225. Does that remain unproclaimed? Is there a plan to proclaim that legislation?
RANDY DELOREY: Changes have not been proclaimed. I believe the Bill notes that it goes into effect on proclamation of Executive Council, or Governor in Council I believe is the proper terminology here. Work to move forward is under way, so expect to have some updates in the not-too-distant future when we wrap here in the Legislature.
ALLAN MACMASTER: I know typically when a bill passes, in most cases they’re proclaimed right away. Why has it not been proclaimed? The problem it presents for Elections Nova Scotia is that they’re potentially looking down the road at having to conduct an election under two different sets of rules, depending on whether or not the legislation is proclaimed. Why the delay and why the - I don’t know if it’s confusion, there’s no confusion - but why the delay and why put Elections Nova Scotia in a position where they have to prepare to run an election under two sets of conditions?
RANDY DELOREY: Just contextually, as I noted, the proclamation is by Governor in Council so I can’t necessarily speak to the specific context of decisions of Executive Council in that regard to this or any other specific item that obviously may breach the executive privilege and my duty to maintain that confidence of that body.
Suffice to say, and in addition to that, I was also not a member of Executive Council for a significant period of time between the legislation being passed in the Legislature and the Fall into the Winter, when perhaps it might have been anticipated to be proclaimed. As a citizen and a member of the Legislature, I would have had no line of sight on any conversations or decisions that may have taken place at that time anyway.
Suffice to say, prior to that point in October when I stepped down as Minister of Health and Wellness, I guess one of the things that happened was COVID, really all hands on deck throughout government responding to the COVID pandemic, that was our first and foremost priority across all areas of government. That would take care of the time predominantly during the Spring and the Summer as we prepared for the second wave. As I said, I stepped down and was not in Executive Council during the Fall and early Winter period. I am here now, I am the minister responsible, and I am taking it very seriously to ensure the appropriate provisions to bring it forward to my colleagues and have Executive Council make some decisions at that point.
ALLAN MACMASTER: I do know you’ve had a busy year in the leadership race there, and I can certainly see how that would be the case. This is certainly the biggest, in terms of being responsible for that Act - this would be probably the top item for the minister responsible for this Act coming into this House sitting. I’m sure that it has been on your radar.
My concern is that - is it really fair for the government to be holding back on legislation that it passed itself, which gives the government an advantage? Only the government knows right now which set of rules the election is going to be conducted under. The government could theoretically choose the set of rules that serves itself in this situation, instead of being open and transparent and proceeding with the legislation that was passed a year ago. From a fairness perspective, do you feel it’s fair for the government to be holding back on this and essentially having the opportunity to know what set of rules the election will be conducted under?
RANDY DELOREY: Perhaps I would ask if the member has any specific provisions within the variants between the current legislation and what was passed last year that may be considered to potentially provide an advantage or disadvantage to any of the participants in the electoral process. Without looking at it right now in front of me, the member is correct that it has certainly been an active file on my desk to delve in, and part of that included given the time when I came in to have the conversation and correspondence and have staff engage with Elections Nova Scotia to determine where we’re at now.
[3:45 p.m.]
We know with certainty that there must be an election within roughly one year from now, so given the scenario that I enter into as the minister responsible, the first step obviously for me is to have the conversation with the department and Elections Nova Scotia to see if proclamation is even viable at this point in time. So those conversations and engagements are taking place, but as far as fairness or if there is any, as I think the member is alluding or suggesting, stacking the deck, so to speak, I’m not aware of any provisions in there that might provide any advantage or disadvantages. It’s predominantly about modernizing and providing some administrative changes to support Elections Nova Scotia themselves.
If the member has specific aspects in there that he thinks may be advantageous to proclaim or not proclaim, I’m certainly not aware of them, so I can definitely assure the member that that concept has never even crossed my mind. I never really thought of it as a possible thing. I haven’t looked at the legislation with that lens. The member obviously seems to have. If he’s suggesting there are pieces, I’d be happy to hear what those provisions are.
ALLAN MACMASTER: We have a government passing a Bill in the Legislature. It has proclaimed every other Bill except for this one. It’s causing headaches for Elections Nova Scotia, which is the organization that has no skin in the political game. They just want to conduct a fair election. They are concerned about this. They approached me months ago about this, wondering: Why isn’t this legislation proclaimed? It’s certainly a fair question to ask. The minister is claiming Cabinet confidentiality, that he can’t really speak on it. He’s also saying that he hasn’t really maybe been there when it was discussed because he has been busy the past year and was not in the Executive Council for a period of time.
Coming to the House this Spring with an election in the offing very soon, within the next year, Minister, I find it incredibly strange that the government remains undecided on whether or not it’s going to proclaim legislation it passed. Can you explain why that is?
RANDY DELOREY: As I previously noted, I can’t speak for the period of time when I was not there to contemplate as it relates to the proclamation of this legislation. During my tenure, as I’ve indicated - one of the first steps through my transition into the role - this is a topic that I delved into very early on. I pulled the information necessary together. One of those components was to have staff engage in the conversation with Elections Nova Scotia to determine whether or not I need to know at this point in time - again, I can’t speak to previous points in time - if it’s viable to move forward and proclaim or if there would be barriers if it was to be proclaimed. That guidance to me is coming from Elections Nova Scotia.
Again, if I were to be advised by Elections Nova Scotia that proclamation now or before the next election was to be burdensome and a barrier to their ability to safely and successfully and in an unbiased way administer the election, that would certainly be information I would have to bring forward to Executive Council, Governor in Council, when making the decision. Again, I’ve been here a few weeks. Those conversations and engagement are taking place, and again, I will be guided in the information I bring forward by that independent body, Elections Nova Scotia, as to proclamation of this particular bill.
ALLAN MACMASTER: One of the barriers for Elections Nova Scotia is the fact that the legislation was passed but has not yet been proclaimed. Is the minister concerned that Elections Nova Scotia is concerned that this legislation has yet to be proclaimed?
RANDY DELOREY: One thing in terms of the time, and I know the member’s alluding and suggesting in terms of how much time has elapsed, which is about a year from when it was passed to this point in time. The thing the members here, Madam Chair, yourself and others should be aware of is that, in fact, even if this legislation had been proclaimed upon Royal Assent, and that is immediately upon passing, that . . .
THE CHAIR: Order. It’s time for our COVID-19 break. Hold those thoughts, minister and the honourable member for Inverness, and we’ll return at 4:05 p.m.
I think Mr. Bain is back. Are you going to take over? Okay. Thank you. See you at 4:05 p.m.
[3:50 p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]
[4:05 p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]
THE CHAIR: The Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply will resume. We left off with the member for Inverness. He had to step out, but I believe the minister has a response, and after the response I’ll recognize the member for Truro-Bible Hill-Millbrook-Salmon River.
RANDY DELOREY: I think I’ve already answered the question. I’ll try again. As I indicated, when I came into office just a few weeks ago, this was one of the important files that was brought to my attention that I dug into, that I reviewed, asked for contact with Elections Nova Scotia to see if (Interruption) Thank you. With the engagement that took place, again, asking staff to reach out, because one of the most important things to me in my role and responsibility, before bringing information forward to Executive Council, Governor in Council, is to ensure that what I’m bringing forward is achievable. I had to inquire and make sure if this proclamation, given the fact that at that point when I came into office - we’re roughly within a year of an election taking place, if that presented problems or issues. That conversation with staff and Elections Nova Scotia is taking place, and then of course there’s the administrative process to move forward with any item that gets brought forward to Executive Council for consideration.
Again, as the legislation stipulates, Governor in Council will make a decision with the information, but again, at the heart of this legislation, as was the case for, as I’m sure the members would remember, the legislation itself, when it was brought forward to the Legislature, it was really informed by the commission on the review and so forth. This is not legislation that is really government legislation: This is non-partisan, passed unanimously, and is going through as I said, my context review, but guided by Elections Nova Scotia and ultimately my colleagues at Governor in Council to make that final decision on time.
THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Truro-Bible Hill-Millbrook-Salmon River.
DAVE RITCEY: I’d like to ask just a couple of questions around the provincial courthouses in Truro, both aging locations. I had communication with the previous minister, and he put in a letter that there was a strategic development plan for the courthouses across the province. I guess my first question to that is: Is Truro in that strategic plan and as part of the budget?
RANDY DELOREY: Welcome to the member. I think this is our first time having an opportunity to engage through the Chair, so welcome to Estimates.
As it relates to the review that I believe my predecessor was referring to, that was an infrastructure review process being started and initiated encompassing the entire court system, so really all infrastructure being assessed and contemplated through that. As the member knows, and I know this is likely a frustrating response, but with COVID, a lot of initiatives would take a bit of a pause to redirect the energy and focus on the needs to ensure that again in this third branch, the court system, are able to conduct themselves, carry on their business, maintain the justice role, the important role, the third branch of government, independent of our legislative and executive branches, to do their work. Where the priorities have shifted obviously is maintaining and operationalizing infrastructure and other tools to enable those in the judicial branch, through the courts, to conduct their business on behalf of the people of Nova Scotia safely in light of COVID.
There hasn’t been much progress with that initiative over the past year, as many of the individuals doing this work, both within the department and other departments like the Department of Infrastructure and Housing - that would be part and parcel of doing this work, but also those within the courts and the judiciary obviously have been very busy ensuring that they have appropriate resources, space, both virtual and physical, to continue their operations safely in a COVID pandemic.
The work broadly is still on the books. To your specific question of money, I don’t believe there’s funding specifically for the Truro courthouse in this budget, which would show up probably as part of the capital plan, if there had been.
DAVE RITCEY: Thank you, minister, for the kind welcome. I appreciate that. Again, just on the courthouse issue, I don’t know if you’ve seen the media article there - it would be a couple of months ago now - around holding cells. Obviously, COVID has challenges, I guess, with respect to our court system. This one in particular is the one on Prince Street, the Provincial Court House, and there were pictures in the media of a bus holding clients, let’s say, on a bus with the Sheriff’s Department. Very unsafe, and it was due to overcrowded cells at the municipal police station, as well as there was no holding capacity at the local courthouse, hence why the urgency around the courthouse, the infrastructure on Prince Street. It used to be Snook’s Save-Easy. It used to be a grocery store.
We’re centrally located. Again, we’re in the hub, in the middle. We’re probably the second - second is what the judge had told me in case volume, as well as we have a Supreme Court in a 130-year-old municipal building uptown. It comes back to public safety in general and modernization and they’re really concerned for safety.
There was one trial there - it was a murder trial at the Supreme Court. The Sheriff’s Department didn’t feel safe taking the prisoner up those flights of stairs to get out into the courtroom, so they had to call the Truro Police to come in and look after it. That’s a little bit alarming as well. It comes back to aging buildings, safety, overloads in cells, having to hold prisoners - not prisoners, clients I’m going to call them, on a bus. Just very unsafe and not modern. I would just really like the minister to reply to those two items. I’d appreciate it.
[4:15 p.m.]
RANDY DELOREY: I thank the member for, I think, several points that came up there, so I’ll do my best to make sure I speak to them all. If I miss some, my apologies in advance. There was a lot there.
First, as it relates to the scenario with the bus that was referenced, my understanding from staff and that context was that there were no inmates there - that the scenario or the circumstance where that transpired was a matter of, as I said earlier, as a result of COVID, not just in our courts but in all aspects of our society, public health limits on the number of people allowed inside a particular space. So as you can imagine, in a courthouse under normal, non-pandemic circumstances, people who show up for appearances - and these are not necessarily criminal appearances, but administrative appearances - could be a traffic violation or what have you in court for appearances. You would be in the court building waiting to be called forward, and perhaps in the court itself or in the hallway or other space.
With COVID, these individuals who show up on what they refer to as appearance day, kind of an administrative working their way through the system there, you would have a lot of people scheduled to come in, and people show up before their scheduled time. That particular bus was being used, as I understand it, for people who were able to wait, so think of it more as a waiting room, but not about offenders. That space was not being used like a holding cell, but rather more akin, I believe, to a waiting room, just in terms of the safety and security concerns that the member raised there on that particular instance.
What that image and that scenario pointed out is the challenge, particularly early on in the pandemic with - and as the courts were opening up, more in light of the pandemic - how important scheduling was and is to maintain the safe, from a public health perspective, operation of a courthouse, scheduling to ensure that people don’t get backed up, that people can transition and appropriate sanitization or sterilization steps get taken to clean the environment and all of the work that’s necessary to keep people safe.
Staff - those showing for appearances, those whom I believe you referred to as clients, but if they’ve been charged as offenders would be - we want to keep them all safe. We want everybody to be safe. I think another important thing to keep in mind as it relates to this whole environment and spaces, as I mentioned briefly earlier, remember there are three branches to government. I’m here today representing in my role as a member of the executive branch, really the operational side of government. Colleagues here on the committee are here operating in their legislative capacity, which is to oversee and hold us and the executive branch accountable, but we sometimes forget that the judicial branch is the third branch of government. While there’s overlap in so much as funding transfers through gets approved by the executive branch, gets approved by the legislative branch, funding for the judiciary and their operations flows through, but operationally, the judges are responsible for their courthouse space, and the Chief Judge oversees the overarching priorities and spaces within the entire judiciary position.
Our department, from an executive branch, we do provide administrative supports and flow-through and obviously advocate for the funding that covers the operational costs necessary by the judicial branch, but again, those operational responsibilities, scheduling and so forth and things do get administered by the judges and justices within the court system, independent of both the executive and legislative branches. We obviously have to work with them when they identify their priorities.
The member made reference to aging and the need for modernization. In fact, that is one of the things, not just in the justice system, but I think throughout society. There’s been a huge jump forward in efforts to modernize many aspects of society and many services, and the judiciary, the judicial system is not exempt. I made reference to it earlier. I won’t take more of the member’s time, but virtual courthouse proceedings - the number of initiatives that I referenced in my opening remarks have already taken place to support access to justice in Truro and across the province.
DAVE RITCEY: I am now going to pass it over to my colleague from Cumberland North.
ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: Hello, Minister. I guess it’s okay to talk directly. I’m just going to ask one question, and then I’m going to ask if it would be possible to follow up offline with whoever would be most appropriate in your department.
My question is around law enforcement and who would be responsible to ensure adequate staffing, specifically within RCMP. I’m just going to share the reason I’m asking that question is there have been some concerns here in Cumberland with staffing and a large percentage of people being off sick or off on leave and leaving the force understaffed, and then we’re seeing that, in particular, I had a victim who had reported a sexual assault and there had been no follow-up in nine weeks. It still was something like 16 weeks before charges were laid. There is a concern about staffing and ratio. I do have other questions in relation to sexual assault, Crown prosecutors and sexual assault cases, but I can ask those offline with whoever would be most appropriate in your department.
RANDY DELOREY: I appreciate the frustration that I’m assuming your constituent - that you gave a brief example of a situation - would be feeling and those circumstances, because as I mentioned in my opening remarks, a lot of effort is being conducted to improve our response to sexualized violence throughout the system, so that is a priority and we’ve made a lot of efforts - my predecessor and throughout other aspects of government - so I know those circumstances you’ve described are not reflective of the objective and the outcomes that we’re pursuing as a government. I think all members of the Legislature share those objectives. We’ve had lots of conversations about it.
To your specific question of staffing within RCMP, we do have a contract with RCMP to provide provincial police services. Some municipalities also have a contract with RCMP to provide municipal policing services, but within that agreement, within the contracts and the way they’re structured, the RCMP are a national force. They provide their staffing ratios and so forth for the services that they deliver in a given time.
Just one other piece - although I can’t speak to the specific circumstance, so very much in a generality: The member made reference to length of time for filing charges. I would just put a little footnote perhaps that I don’t think we can always make judgment calls about how long it would take to lay charges or whether charges do get laid in a particular situation, because those decisions get made as they pursue investigation on policing and then come up with and determine the information and the evidence against the laws and so forth before making those decisions. Sometimes the evidence is clear and more available and charges can be laid more quickly, and sometimes - again, I’m not speaking on the specific, but I wouldn’t necessarily be able to draw conclusions based upon the duration to charges from a concern being raised.
ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: In this particular case, there was a member who had been reported to and was no longer there and no one else had picked up the case, so there was a definite gap. I’m going to pass it on to my colleague from Pictou West.
THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Pictou West.
KARLA MACFARLANE: I know our time is limited and I know I still have a colleague after me who wants to ask some questions, so thank goodness most of my questions have been asked by my colleagues or the Opposition Party. I’m going to just be quick and hope that we can get quick answers.
First question, the one that we were cut off the other day in Question Period, the detox centre in Pictou. Quickly: an update on what’s happening?
RANDY DELOREY: There are no firm decisions around that property. As the member noted then and is well aware, it was being used as a health facility no longer. There is a partner organization in the community that may have some use, that they provide some services to Justice, so we’re evaluating and there is some work ongoing, but it’s too early to say whether that will materialize or not. But we’re certainly engaged in a potential use of the facility with a partner community organization providing services.
KARLA MACFARLANE: Is that the John Howard Society, minister?
RANDY DELOREY: Just not to take more time, I’m not sure if I’m allowed to disclose to the member, so not to take more time, I’ll follow up and let you know. If I determine that I’m able to disclose the organization, I will follow up with the member offline.
KARLA MACFARLANE: Just heading right into - okay, I’m a firm believer, just my opinion, that I believe all high schools that have X amount, I don’t know if it would be 50 or 100, but definitely when you have a school of 1,200 kids in Grades 9-12, they should have a resource officer. This was an initiative that I think was brought in by the NDP. We had an RCMP officer at Northumberland Regional High School. I know he did share a bit of his time with a few other schools, but mostly at this school because you can imagine, 1,200 students. That’s where the focus was.
Increase in drugs, sexual assault, it’s rampant, and this officer has been off for a year - rightly so, I’m not questioning why the officer is off. I want to know why someone wasn’t replaced, and I want to know when they’re going to get replaced. We had a whole school year without an officer there.
[4:30 p.m.]
RANDY DELOREY: Just very quickly, for this specific location, I just - is that an RCMP or a municipal officer that the member is referring to at that site?
KARLA MACFARLANE: RCMP.
RANDY DELOREY: I think on this particular one, I might want to connect with the member offline. Under normal circumstances we’d certainly expect that a vacant resource would be filled, so I’m just not familiar with the specific site and location. If we touch base offline or you reach out to my executive assistant, I’m sure we can try to navigate that one and see what’s going on specifically. Again, as I mentioned to the previous question, staffing are the responsibility of the RCMP process, but again, if we have an allocated resource, they should be filling those positions, so something we can look into.
KARLA MACFARLANE: Those two questions, I’m definitely going to hold the minister to get back in touch with me. They’re very important to my constituents, two big issues that are really happening here right now, people worried about the detox centre, what’s happening with it. I’ve never in my eight years had so many calls from the high school with concerns with finding needles, with drugs, and it’s just rampant. Having the presence of an officer there doesn’t solve everything, but it certainly helps, having a presence.
Most of my questions about human trafficking have been answered. I know that all members of the House know that this is a very passionate area for me regardless of not being the Critic for Justice, I still remain very involved. I just want to first, before I end with this last question, I do want to give a big shout-out to the past minister from Bridgewater, to his staff. They were always very good to me and I think they did a lot of work around this subject matter. I am just so pleased. I know they know and I know the new minister knows there’s still a lot of work to be done.
Where I struggle is that three of the Bills that I introduced that most people are aware, two I do believe were adopted into policy and regulations, and that’s wonderful. I really don’t care who gets the credit. Really the staff gets the credit and the past minister, which is great. I’m really disappointed that my third bill, to make it mandatory education in the curriculum, is not being addressed. I will continue pushing that, but I want to know right now what the minister’s department feels the reason is for still remaining to be the province with the highest number of reported human trafficking incidents, if his department believes that actually implementing something in the educational system, making it mandatory to learn about this would help.
RANDY DELOREY: Very quickly, I’m going to jump back to the first of the two that I promised to follow up to the member with. It is okay to disclose, yes, it is the John Howard Society that we’re in discussions with for some services that they would be providing, so again that work is ongoing, some assessments and things. Preliminary to make any kind of public announcements about what may occur, but I assure the member if things proceed and conclude, we’ll do a public notification announcement of the services and what have you.
The specific question on the education, as far as being incorporated into curriculum, that obviously is something with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. That’s not something that I would have the capacity to be mandating through, but it did come up actually a bit earlier as well, so I did touch on that. That, I think, again, where and how education can play a role not just around human trafficking but other aspects of sexualized violence and systemic issues around that, and whether to do formalized education and the need to get information age-appropriately into the hands of our youth is really important to both keep them safe, but also to keep them from becoming engaged in inappropriate behaviours as well. I recognize that and I think all members of the Legislature support these outcomes.
To the specific question about why Nova Scotia ranks high, I think this is information that we’re still trying to tease apart and come to a full understanding of that. Preliminary, there are some things about geographic location, being court-sited, close proximity and the ease of transferring into the proximity of other jurisdictions, which, once you cross boundaries, makes it more difficult from a policing perspective. That’s one of the reasons why we try to work and focus with our partners and try to connect - I hope to - with my Atlantic counterparts and federally as well to try to recognize that. When you get into human trafficking, it’s not any individual jurisdiction, and in fact it spans multiple jurisdictions, and we need to work together to solve the problem.
Wherever the incident originates isn’t the important part, I don’t believe, in this. It’s that we tackle those issues and part of it we need to do together to understand, but also to resolve. This remains a high priority. It’s outlined in my mandate letter and will be, as my predecessor - will continue to be. I appreciate the support that all members of the Legislature and all political parties share this objective and that makes our job in the executive branch that much easier when we know we have the support of the legislative branch to tackle these complex and long-standing issues.
KARLA MACFARLANE: I want to thank the minister for those answers, and we’ll certainly be following up. Again, thanks to his department and the past minister, and I know the current minister has had a lot of responsibility with big portfolios, and I know he’ll do a great job with this one, and I look forward to working with him.
For now, I’ll hand it over to my colleague from, oh my gosh, Argyle-Barrington, I think, who has about 10 minutes.
THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Argyle-Barrington. You actually have 15 minutes left.
COLTON LEBLANC: My colleague from Pictou West is correct: It is still Argyle-Barrington, but hopefully next session I’ll be the member for Argyle.
I just have a couple of short questions, and if I do have time I’ll pass it back to my colleague from Pictou West so she can continue her conversation with the minister. I do want to take the moment to thank the minister for the opportunity to ask him a few questions this afternoon and for his staff’s support during Estimates here.
The topic that I do want to discuss with the minister is probably one that he’s familiar with due to his previous ministerial duties as Minister of Health and Wellness. It coincides with his new portfolio, and it is the wellness courts in Nova Scotia. I’ve heard lots of success from this program here, this sector of courts in our province. There are a number of wellness courts in Nova Scotia: in Dartmouth, Halifax, Sydney, Amherst, Kentville, Port Hawkesbury, Bridgewater, Wagmatcook First Nation, but there are none in southwestern Nova Scotia. It’s a very big region. You can go from Kentville to Bridgewater - that big demographic of our province is being missed here.
Recognizing that the situations that may lead Nova Scotians to end up getting in trouble with the law, whether it be complexed with mental illness, substance abuse, and gambling, and that they’d fit into the criteria to go through the courts through different means, I’m lost for words of why we don’t have this court yet here in southwestern Nova Scotia. I know two years ago the program celebrated its 10th anniversary.
I’ve written to the previous minister. I’ve spoken with the minister offline at the time, so I’m just wondering: What are the barriers to getting a wellness court in the Tri-County region, and what is being done to ensure that it’s going to be implemented in due time?
RANDY DELOREY: In fact, I can advise the member that our colleague from Yarmouth also inquired recently about this very same question. There are a couple of things. One is obviously it’s agreed it’s not there, but also it’s agreed that the outcomes that we’re seeing in Nova Scotia - I think being a leader in the adoption and the success - I made reference to this earlier, but I’ll do it again - that our justice system isn’t just about crime and punishment: it’s about really the overall objective to rehabilitate, and I think this is where these wellness courts really tackle the underlying components to help support. I appreciate the member’s commitment or support in principle of these services.
As I also mentioned a little bit earlier, the complexity in the justice system and space, because you want to talk about courts and so forth, we’re really having multiple, not just departments engaged, but you’re actually engaging with multiple branches of government, and these are independent branches of government that we engage with. We work collaboratively, we have a good working relationship, but it’s not something the government does independently of our own initiative.
There is certainly a wellness court steering committee, really led, I believe, by representatives in the judiciary, the judges, to help inform, and they’re working broadly on a sustainability plan for government’s consideration, and that work is ongoing. This isn’t specifically to that southwest region, but broadly in the province.
The other thing I would just note again in the short term: If you’re saying right now, today, why don’t you just flip the switch, the other piece is right now, today, a lot of resources are - and I don’t just mean financial, I mean human resources - are really focused on keeping people safe, modernizing the courts not for the sake of modernizing, but in response in particular to the health and safety needs because of the COVID pandemic. Some of the effort that might have been working on prior to this time last year has been redirected to get us through some of these technical components. All of this work is well under way and the integration between the health system, the judicial system, the executive branch, as well as the judicial branch of government, all of those complexities, it does take a little bit of time to make any individual court come to fruition, but still a pride of our judicial and justice system.
[4:45 p.m.]
COLTON LEBLANC: How much time do I have left?
THE CHAIR: You have eight minutes.
COLTON LEBLANC: I thank the minister very much for that response, and I guess it’s just recognizing that these courts are truly problem-solving courts, and the minister alluded that it’s not to necessarily punish individuals, punish Nova Scotians. In instances, we see a revolving door, that they go through the criminal justice system without getting the actual care or treatment that they may need for their addiction or their substance abuse or gambling problem.
Is there a timeline for the department? I know the minister spoke previously with my colleague from Pictou West, that there’s the three branches of government that work independently, but has the Department of Justice communicated with judiciary and said by such date we were looking for a proposal, or has the judiciary said by such date we will have a proposal? That’s where I’m looking at right now.
RANDY DELOREY: I’m not aware of a specific date for the work, other than the work is ongoing. Again, what slightly complicates this, a lot of the work by a lot of similar people is working on other aspects of the modernization efforts, so it’s not that work isn’t being done to help ensure access to justice, it’s just from a slightly different perspective right now. Nobody’s forgotten. This is still an important part of the justice system.
COLTON LEBLANC: I honestly hope that there will be an expansion of this very valuable court to the Tri-County region.
I do want to pivot with the few moments that remain and speak to a situation that didn’t necessarily directly impact my constituency but the neighbouring constituencies, however many of my constituents felt the issue, and it’s regarding the moderate livelihood issue in Clare and regarding the safety of all. I’m alive to the fact that DFO has a role and responsibility, the Coast Guard has a responsibility, as well as our police forces. In the Clare area, it’s the RCMP, and I’ve seen different photos and read different stories of the significant amount of resources that were deployed to that area. There are concerns of things heating up both on and off the water with warmer weather upcoming.
I’m just wondering what the minister’s involvement is in ensuring that the safety for all is ensured as this issue continues to simmer.
RANDY DELOREY: Operationally, if the member is referring to operationally, if things were to percolate and public safety was to become an issue or concern, operationally on the ground, that would really fall to the police force, the RCMP, and depending on the region the potentially municipal forces as well. Fundamentally, the public safety component operationally for ensuring public safety is directly to the policing agencies. As that rolls up in terms of responding to issues like enhanced resources requests or what have you, that aspect of the contract outlines where approvals and things, if necessary, to engage additional resources and things would come into the department and the Minister Responsible for Public Safety, myself.
As far as from an operational perspective, that’s not my role. It’s really to support and work with our policing agencies from a resourcing allocation if needed.
COLTON LEBLANC: I wonder if the minister has any concerns that have been expressed to him through the department regarding the situation, whether it be demand for resources, allocation of resources, or does everything seem to be okay in this regard on this file?
RANDY DELOREY: I’m just trying to choose my language carefully a little bit. Obviously, I don’t want to delve into an area to jeopardize any efforts or works of our policing agencies, so I’ll keep it very high-level. Suffice to say, the capacity and the ability, and I think our province in the last year has shown how resources - one of the advantages of the RCMP is that they are a national force so that resources, both provincially - they serve us provincially and are able to redeploy resources within the province very quickly, but also because they are part of a national force, if additional resources are ever required for any reason, there is the ability to quickly mobilize and garnish support from other jurisdictions across the country.
There’s one of those advantages of securing those services from a national police force. Without getting into details, what I would say is I’m confident in the work and due diligence of our policing agency, and other partners, to stay on top of all circumstances that intelligence would suggest may represent a risk to public safety, and that I have confidence in their willingness and ability to prepare for any instances for which they have the capacity or the intelligence to prepare for.
COLTON LEBLANC: With this last minute, I’ll again thank the minister for his responses this afternoon. I too do have confidence in the ability of our police forces and the resources that they have at their disposal to ensure the safety of all. Frightening situations have taken place in this part of the province, and it’s unfortunate that they’re yet to be resolved, but that’s beyond the minister’s jurisdiction, but I do hope with time that it will come to a peaceful resolution, and I hope if the situation . . .
THE CHAIR: Order, please. The time for the PC caucus has expired. We only have 12 minutes left, and I don’t know how long the minister is going to take for his closing remarks. Maybe if he can give some indication it might help out the member and myself.
RANDY DELOREY: I will defer and use only the amount of time for closing remarks as the member wishes. I just need a few seconds for the resolution. If the member wants me to make other closing remarks I will do so, but if she wants to use all of her time, I’m welcome to concede that as well.
THE CHAIR: That’s fine, thank you. As it stands now, we’ll go to 5:04 p.m. and allow the minister to make his remarks.
The honourable member for Dartmouth South.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I wanted to go back to a question I asked before the break, because I didn’t hear an answer about the design team to reimagine the justice system in Nova Scotia. The minister said things have changed since last September, and I understand that, and I’m wondering: Is that team still working, or is there a different approach being considered?
RANDY DELOREY: The design team, to the best of my knowledge, was not officially design and it’s not part of the Department of Justice, so that’s why when I referred to the work that we’re doing and our priorities and focus on justice planning for the . . .
CLAUDIA CHENDER: You’re on mute.
RANDY DELOREY: Sorry about that. Doing the African Nova Scotian and the Indigenous justice plans as outlined in my mandate letter, we have a new office within government now as well focused on tackling racism and systemic issues in our society. I think underlying all of it, whatever one calls a team or initiative, I think the fact fundamentally remains broadly, government direction from the Premier right on down, and I believe this is consistent in all branches of government, a desire and a commitment to educate ourselves, educate our partners in our community to learn from past behaviours and so forth to inform our path forward, to tackle and take down systemic barriers and issues.
Here we’re talking specifically about Justice, but I think broadly in government, you can look at my colleagues’ mandate letters, there is a lot of reference and focus, and we know this is part of our Premier’s and our government’s commitment, not just in Justice but across the board.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: One last kick at the can here. I recognize that commitment. I think the former Premier’s apology was very articulate, relatively well received. I read the mandate letters, I know that this government has expressed a commitment.
There were two people hired. They had offices, they had a mandate, they had 18 months to set this up, and my question is: Is that project still happening or not? I guess I’ll just add on in the interest of time, that project itself, as you as the minister must be aware, came under some fire and was somewhat controversial, and one of the reasons was that the African Nova Scotian Decade for People of African Descent Coalition, DPAD, had in fact much earlier submitted their own African Nova Scotian Justice Institute plan to the department. We also introduced that in the form of a Bill.
If the minister can just clarify whether that project continues or not: Are those people still under contract with the department or not? Notwithstanding the commitment, that’s fine. I appreciate those comments. Will the minister or the department or the new office, which we can’t question here, be entertaining DPAD’s proposal?
RANDY DELOREY: Again, I apologize if previously I wasn’t quite clear enough. As I mentioned, the design team wasn’t allocated or assigned, so when the member’s asking about those resources, they’re not part of this department, so I can’t comment on where the resources or whether those resources are deployed and what their work would be as part of that, because they’re not part of this department and haven’t been part of this department. That’s why when I say I can’t speak to it, I can’t speak to it because they were never here as part of this department.
As it relates to the DPAD proposal and engagement with that organization, we are definitely engaged. We have received the proposal. It’s being reviewed. Engagement is taking place, but from my perspective, from the perspective of the department, it’s being done per my mandate to establish and develop a broad African Nova Scotian, as well as and separately, an Indigenous justice plan for the province to set the stage and the path forward. Yes, that specific plan that was referenced has been received by the department. It is being reviewed by the department and engaged with the parties that submitted it as part of the bigger initiative that my department is undertaking.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I really appreciate the last part of that answer, and I look forward to hearing more. Still mystified by the first part, so if it was never there, where was it and where is it? I’m not getting that answer, but I’m not going to spend more time trying.
[5:00 p.m.]
Following the release of the street checks report, the former Minister of Justice issued a directive which in turn became a moratorium on street checks, which we were pleased to see. There’s an exception in the language of that moratorium for police inquiries into suspicious activity. I know there has been some conversation about whether that does or doesn’t reflect a common law standard. This is a long kind of legal brief conversation, but nonetheless people are very concerned about it. Our understanding is that the Human Rights Commission has been engaged to review the term, and I’m wondering if the minister can provide an update on that work.
RANDY DELOREY: To the question of the Human Rights Commission, I don’t have an update. That is independent. Although they report through, they are independent. I am not aware of the work that they would be doing on that piece, so I can’t, unfortunately, provide an update, but I can advise you and my colleagues that we are engaged on that very question with DPAD and organizations as part of our broad work. That’s a specific item, but all of that falls under our commitment, my mandate to move forward and address these systemic issues and make improvements, and that, I assure you, I’m committed to doing.
CLAUDIA CHENDER: I want to thank the minister for a four-hour Estimates period, which is probably a new low record for him, and for your responsiveness and relative brevity. I recognize this is a new department, so thank you both to the minister and to the staff for being responsive, and I look forward to following up on some of the issues we discussed. With that, we’ll tie up and let the minister make a few remarks and read the resolution.
THE CHAIR: I recognize the minister for closing remarks and presenting the resolution.
RANDY DELOREY: Just so I time this appropriately, what is our closing time?
THE CHAIR: It’s 5:05 p.m.
RANDY DELOREY: I’ve got three minutes. I can probably clear my throat and prepare, but suffice to say, before I read the resolution, I want to first thank my colleagues, everyone who has participated this afternoon with these Estimates discussions. I prefer to refer to them as Estimates debates, but it really tends to be more discussion for those who ask questions, but also those who sit in on the committee listening. I know the topic of justice is important to us as members of the Legislature, but also our constituents.
I’d also again be remiss if I didn’t refer back, as I did in my opening remarks, to thank all of the staff throughout the Department of Justice. I’ve only been here for a couple of months, but I’ve been very welcomed. I feel very welcomed into the department, and I appreciate that very much. I look forward to continuing to work with all of them to implement our budget commitments, but also on the other priorities defined in my mandate and ensure we do provide justice in a meaningful way to all citizens.
Also likewise, appreciation to all of our community partners, service providers, and organizations that help us provide true justice to the citizens of Nova Scotia, recognizing we have work to do.
THE CHAIR: Shall Resolution E13 stand?
Resolution E13 stands.
Resolution E21 - Resolved that a sum not exceeding $957,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Freedom of Information Protection of Privacy Review Office, pursuant to the Estimate.
Resolution E23 - Resolved that a sum not exceeding $2,857,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Human Rights Commission, pursuant to the Estimate.
Resolution E26 - Resolved that a sum not exceeding $427,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Nova Scotia Police Complaints Commissioner, pursuant to the Estimate.
Resolution E34 - Resolved that a sum not exceeding $26,633,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Public Prosecution Service, pursuant to the Estimate.
Those are all of the resolutions pursuant to the department, as well as our partner organizations.
THE CHAIR: Shall the resolutions carry?
The resolutions are carried.
Again, thank you to the minister. I’m sure you’re in shock because this was so short, as you’re normally accustomed to having the week in the Chamber, but we appreciate you and your staff being here today.
The good news: As I mentioned last night, we’re down to one more day of Estimates. We’ll be getting together again on Monday. I don’t know what time. Same place, same station. Everyone have a great weekend and we’ll see you on Monday.
We stand adjourned.
[The subcommittee adjourned at 5:05 p.m.]
