HALIFAX, MONDAY, MARCH 2, 2020

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON SUPPLY

4:50 P.M.

CHAIR

Rafah DiCostanzo

THE CHAIR: Order. We’re meeting today to consider the estimates for the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage, as outlined in Resolution E3.

We are starting with the NDP. They have used 23 minutes of their hour. Ms. Leblanc, you have 37 minutes.

SUSAN LEBLANC: Thank you, Madam Chair. I will say that so far I have really enjoyed this process.

I’m wondering, in terms of the department, if you could outline what gender analysis is done of your department’s programs and policies. In particular, I would love to know gender analysis of recipients of grant programs when it’s individual or if, when it’s a group receiving something, there’s any gender analysis that’s available. I would also like to know if you make gender equity any kind of requirement for receiving grants.

HON. LEO GLAVINE: First of all, I would like to say that I’m very pleased to be working in an environment which, in this case, happens to be dominated by women, both in terms of the office and in terms of those who work in CCH.

As part of the ongoing work around our grant system, especially after the Auditor General did his report, probably all aspects of our grant distribution are under analysis. We are very cognizant of gender equity in what we do in the department. I think we’re very, very strong, actually, in that regard.

I don’t know if you want specific examples, but when I look through Sport and Recreation and the people who work in those areas of our department, we would have very, very strong gender equity composition of those who work as our directors and those who do the analysis for our grants - again, to make sure that we are pretty cognizant of that in all the work that we do.

SUSAN LEBLANC: I just want to clarify, because what I heard was that in the department, there’s a good gender balance - dominated, in fact. I feel like when I go to work at the NDP caucus office, that’s exactly my experience, which is quite wonderful. But you don’t do a gender analysis of grant recipients, is that correct?

LEO GLAVINE: I would say that we’re looking to expand this from Sport and Recreation out through broader program delivery. One of the areas that we put a dedicated emphasis on in terms of gender equity was with our screenwriters and the funding that we give to screenwriters.

It is definitely an element that we’re very aware of, to make sure that that is kept as one of our focus areas. I think we have been able to respond pretty strongly any time questions are asked of our delivery of programs.

SUSAN LEBLANC: I’m sure you can’t offer this today, but I’m wondering if the department could provide me with a current organizational chart for the whole department and a list of all job vacancies.

LEO GLAVINE: We can certainly provide that. I know this was a year where, if you did do that analysis on the budget, we didn’t have very many job vacancies.

We have a very busy and expanding department. Since coming to the department three years ago, along with bringing over all of the Sport and Recreation and facility grants from the Department of Health and Wellness, which started to move just before I arrived, we have added a significant component around accessible transportation and community network transportation. As well, two major programs on accessibility have been added since coming there.

We also have some dedicated poverty reduction programs that have been added to our work. We have had our events team give us a considerable amount of work that our department is responsible for, both over the last three years and in looking out as far as 2022. Again, this is a very, very strong time for heading up events in our department.

Over the past year, with some part-time staff - and of course we’re talking about a museum system across the province and our department - in total, we’re looking at 10.5 vacant full-time equivalent positions.

[5:00 p.m.]

SUSAN LEBLANC: But you will provide an organizational chart? That would be great.

Speaking of part-time/full-time, how much did the department spend on services provided by a temp agency last year? How much is the department budgeting for those services in this budget?

LEO GLAVINE: That’s very detailed information, which, again, we have no problem providing, member. We have made a note to make sure you get that information.

SUSAN LEBLANC: In keeping with these things that you’ll probably send afterwards, how much did the department spend on employee overtime last year, and how much is the department budgeting for overtime in this budget?

LEO GLAVINE: Again, we will have to review that. It’s not a vague item. When I take a look at the department and the work function of our department, we have a lot of department people who put in more than the required hours. We can be very busy at certain times of the year. It’s simply seen as part of the work that is required to make sure we are on time with the delivery of programs.

SUSAN LEBLANC: Lastly in this vein, does the department use or offer internships? If so, how many do you have, and are they paid or unpaid internships?

LEO GLAVINE: We will have a few student positions that will come into the department each Summer. There’s also, on occasion, a request from organizations to place a co-op student in the department. Again, with the expertise that we have available, from time to time that will be one of the areas that we positively do respond to.

In fact, we have had some occasions where they have gone on to work longer than the Summer period. Work was available and they weren’t returning to school. Again, when you get that exceptional student, you like to see if perhaps there may be career opportunities for them.

SUSAN LEBLANC: That sounds like they’re paid, but can you just confirm that those are paid positions?

LEO GLAVINE: Yes, they would be paid positions in our department. As we plan for this year, knowing the amount of work ahead, we will have four student interns planned for this year and two from New Leaf supporting job opportunities for those with physical and mental challenges.

SUSAN LEBLANC: I want to take it back to the arts world for a minute. Last day, we were talking about how you were undergoing a funding model review and all of those things. I’m wondering, as that review is happening, are you doing jurisdictional scans? In the world, in parts of North America and in a few places in Canada, there are thriving independent theatre networks, for example, but other types of art networks as well.

I’m just wondering, what models or countries are you studying as you review the strategy for arts funding?

LEO GLAVINE: That is a great question. What I would tell the member right off is that when I have gone to the FPT Culture and Heritage meetings that are held annually, there are a number of areas where we proved to be very strong in terms of some of the programs that we offer. On those occasions we get an opportunity to share, at the ministerial and the civil service level, what some of the programs are that are working very well.

We’re always open to best practices within the arts and the creative sector. In fact, I as minister have been able to take a few programs to the national table and see that we are very much leaders in that regard. We do involve other jurisdictions. Just as we may ask for details around the delivery of a creative sector program, we will in turn get asked as well.

SUSAN LEBLANC: Can you just clarify what FPT meetings are? Is that national?

LEO GLAVINE: Each year, there is a federal-provincial-territorial meeting of ministers. We hosted the latest one here in Halifax last year. Those are a great opportunity for ministers, deputy ministers, and our directors in the department to have very candid and fulsome discussions around some of the programs that each province is in the process of developing.

In each of the three years that I have been at the table, I have found those to be extremely valuable. There is a very strong formal program as well as opportunities in an informal setting to look at what we are doing at CCH.

SUSAN LEBLANC: I’m sure those meetings are really helpful and informative. If you ever want to have an off-the-record, off-the-microphone conversation about other amazing festivals and international events that take place annually, I would love to share some of that information. I think those are also really great places. They’re largely for industry, where artwork is showcased, but there are also lots of other educational components to those. It would be an opportunity to witness how thriving art scenes manage in some big world-class cities in the world and in North America. I would love to have a chat about that.

Back to the bricks-and-mortar questions, we talked about the art gallery last week, and of course there was an announcement about the Bus Stop Theatre last week. It’s obviously great news that the department is going to contribute to that project.

I know that there are other - for instance, at the Community Services Committee meeting that the deputy and other senior staff from the department attended, there was lots of discussion about other organizations that are looking for space. The Khyber was one of those, and the Eyelevel Gallery, although their request was not so much about space - sustainable space, I think it is.

I’m just wondering if there are other smaller-scale art projects that are on the radar in the department for funding right now.

LEO GLAVINE: First of all, I would like to comment on the fact that, yes, I know you’re a well-informed Critic in the arts sector.

Sometimes not only at the national meetings - and having the opportunity to travel out of province, we discovered, for example, when we went to Japan, that our embassy in Tokyo has a phenomenal space for right-size presentations of art. I’m pretty sure that, if everything is on track, this year we will again feature some Nova Scotian visual artists in their space in Tokyo at the embassy. It will be another great opportunity to have Japanese come in and appreciate our work. We’re hoping, of course, that sales are part of that as well - great opportunities for some of our artists.

There’s no question that there’s a growing need for space for performing artists. Staff heard that during my deputy’s recent appearance at the Community Services Committee. This budget reflects the need to support our artists, especially those who want to offer a venue for small and medium theatre companies and emerging talents. Just as we supported Bus Stop Theatre, we know that there is growing demand across the province. We have some phenomenal theatre groups that run programs year-round now rather than the kind of classic Summer theatre offerings that we do still see, whether it’s in Baddeck or Antigonish or other communities. It’s great that we are moving to year-round opportunities.

I thank the member for that question. It’s one that our department wants to make sure we’re very responsive to.

One of the things we’re excited about is to connect better with the Mi’kmaq communities in Nova Scotia so we can hear from them and their ideas and their projects. As you know, we made Mi’kmaq culture the number one pillar in our Culture Action Plan. I have had the opportunity to get out to 12 of our 13 Mi’kmaq communities and see the growth of emerging artists and their opportunities and what they’re selling in their gift shops. Now we need to make sure that they also have their music, their theatre opportunities, and their unique celebrations as part of moving out into the wider community.

I feel that this Summer, with the North American Indigenous Games in particular, we’re going to be able to showcase our music, our dance, and perhaps small vignettes of theatre as well at the cultural community that will be set up on the Commons.

I think there’s a growing demand in that regard, and we hope to help support and cultivate those wonderful opportunities for the communities, for the Mi’kmaq and African Nova Scotians.

We are also having many multicultural fests now in the province - a number of designated days. We have three or four groups that have a dedicated event at the Central Library. Again, that involves performance. We’re certainly in support of that work.

[5:15 p.m.]

THE CHAIR: We have 15 minutes left for the NDP. Minister, if you could just let me know, how long do you need for your closing remarks? Should I allow for two minutes?

LEO GLAVINE: I’ll paraphrase it in 45 seconds.

THE CHAIR: Okay, you have quite a bit of time, Ms. Leblanc.

SUSAN LEBLANC: I’m about to leave art again, but I want to reiterate a question I asked on Friday. Given the Culture Action Plan, and given that Indigenous culture is the number one pillar, and given that the attention that African Nova Scotian culture has in the Culture Action Plan, I really do think from my ears on the ground - at least in HRM, and I understand that that’s not everywhere - to have dedicated program officers who are from those communities to go to those communities, to those artists, and talk to them about how to make an application successful, all of the different opportunities - I think it’s a really important step or a really important feature to have in the programs. I asked you a question about that, and it sounded like there are not dedicated program officers for the African Nova Scotian and Indigenous communities. Maybe I misunderstood, but if there are not, I think there should be.

I’m going to ask my last question, about housing. As we all know, and we’ve been talking about this since we came into session and obviously before, it’s very difficult to build healthy and thriving communities when people don’t have access to secure housing. I will extrapolate that comment out to artists, low-paid artists, as well. A number of artists can’t really do art full time because of their low wages and the high cost of living, high cost of rental accommodation. Of course, the question is broader. We have a real housing crisis on our hands. We have a homeless crisis, I think looming and possibly burgeoning. I’m just wondering what the department is doing. As the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage, what role does your department have in working on this and addressing this crisis?

LEO GLAVINE: First of all, I wanted to comment on the need for, perhaps, program officers to work with communities, especially ones that traditionally have had some disadvantages in terms of entering that whole panorama of what I would call the cultural industries and getting access to grants and perhaps even some core funding. One of the areas that I can truly say I’m impressed with, in terms of the department, is our department people actually going out into communities to meet with organizations that have never done this before, to actually help them with all the nuances of applying for grants. I think one of the most remarkable things that is open to every MLA, and I would encourage all MLAs to do this - we’ve had people from CCH take that full array of 75 program offerings that we have and go with the MLA to organizations that are in the community and explain to them what this particular grant would actually cover off, and also to present grant areas that community organizations weren’t even aware of. I’ve had this happen down on the South Shore and in the Valley, that I have heard of. While we wouldn’t have maybe the program officers as you would envision, our department does a lot of work. Again, it’s not about overtime. It’s that they feel this is part of their job. I know we had department people in Preston on the weekend dealing with one of our Culture Innovation Fund offerings. We have people who want to see successful applications because it’s going to strengthen that group and what that cultural program will look like in the future. I would really encourage all of our MLAs to take advantage of that.

There will be a dedicated cultural liaison position. That will be posted in the coming weeks. For now, this position is a Mi’kmaw cultural liaison officer. I really like this. Again, a few of our Mi’kmaw communities seem to be quite advanced in some of these areas. Others are in the mid-range, and others haven’t even begun, if you wish. This will be very, very well-received. ANSA staff are working with Arts Nova Scotia and other organizations to assist engagement with the African Nova Scotian community. These are the two prime areas.

I’m also wanting to see our department reach to other growing communities. Look at the way our Syrian community has grown just in the last five years. We’re going to have to reach out to many of our immigrant communities, as well, and support some of their initiatives.

SUSAN LEBLANC: I thought I was not going to use all my time, but it appears that I am.

I had asked about housing. What is the department doing on the significant issue that is housing and the housing crisis? In a tightening rental market, it is an increasing risk for applicants for fewer and fewer units to become susceptible to discrimination. I’m wondering if your department is doing anything to address that aspect of the housing crisis or the crisis in general - noting, of course, that rent control is a proven tool to help artists and lower-income arts communities in a tight rental market.

LEO GLAVINE: It’s perhaps not a question that we would take hold of in a direct way because we have left a lot of that work to Housing Nova Scotia. We have been funding or providing some grants to some dedicated initiatives. In 2019-20, the themes were children and youth, transition housing, mental health and addictions, economic inclusion, workforce attachment, food security, and transportation. There were some grants given to those areas. Adsum for Women and Children, Diverting Families from Shelter to Home, we had $50,000. It’s not a lot of money, but again, it was an intervention that was able to help a number of families. As we enter into some poverty reduction projects, many of them upstream, involving food initiatives, there will be further assists from our department. It’s a program we really just started and entered into.

If we’re going to build vibrant communities, we also have to tackle the very hard questions, the very challenging pieces that are there. I couldn’t agree with the member more that housing is a critical piece of providing not just opportunity for artists but for improving life and well-being in our communities.

I’ve had those opportunities as a teacher, driving children home from school for one reason or another, whether it was their participation in our school plays or sports or delivering a child because school wasn’t a place for them to be that day, and finding out later that the child didn’t want me to see the home they lived in and they would get off at a friend or neighbour’s home. We know how real and how hurting the housing picture can be in some of our communities.

One of the areas that I really like with Ross Creek is that they’ve been very conscious, when they bring in artists in residence, that perhaps getting affordable lodging in the Wolfville-New Minas-Kentville corridor would probably be too expensive for them. They have built some small Summer places right on site and it has really added to the vibrancy of that artistic community. I not only go there as minister, but I’ve also gone there to see some of their plays. Having that little gallery as another piece of their presentation of the work of our artists, I think, provides wonderful opportunity.

That was a great final question. If we are moving to that time, we have three minutes.

We did get to one of the questions that the member asked. She can now write down and have the answer. In fiscal year 2019-20, we did have some overtime used by the department. It was $47,483.77. We have no budget for 2020-21. We don’t budget at that particular level. We can sometimes have some developments come along that do require some of our expertise to give more dedicated and more formal time to their work. I’m very pleased and proud to say that in our department, there are many who work hours that there wouldn’t be overtime compensation for.

Whenever you need me to provide a closing comment, if you could just let me know at one minute, Madam Chair.

THE CHAIR: Actually, she can go all the way to 5:30. If the PCs have decided - I would like to ask, do you have any questions for Communities, Culture and Heritage? No. You’re fine with that as well? We’re done, so we’ll let the minister do his closing.

LEO GLAVINE: I want to thank all the members who asked questions during this time. It’s not often we go into the second day for Communities, Culture and Heritage, but I think there has been a lot of involving of programs and developments at CCH over the last two or three years in particular. I certainly welcome any of my colleagues to reach out to the department any time you do have a question. They would certainly welcome that opportunity, as well.

That concludes our Estimates for the 2020-21 fiscal year.

THE CHAIR: Shall Resolution E3 stand?

Resolution E3 stands.

We’re finished with Communities, Culture and Heritage, and we’re moving on to the Department of Seniors.

We’ll recess for a couple of minutes.

[5:30 p.m. The committee recessed.]

[5:32 p.m. The committee reconvened.]

THE CHAIR: I call to order the Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply. We are meeting this evening to consider the Estimates for the Department of Seniors.

Resolution E35 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $2,711,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Seniors, pursuant to the Estimate.

THE CHAIR: The honourable Minister of Seniors.

LEO GLAVINE: Thank you for the opportunity to present a bit more of the detailed information around the Department of Seniors. I do have an opening statement.

One of the realities that I think all of us as MLAs and now Nova Scotians province-wide are beginning to really see is the demographic shift that’s happening in our province. Nova Scotians are living longer and are in better health than at any other time in history. The first of the baby boomers have now reached the early 70s, and by 2030, more than one in four Nova Scotians will be age 65 and older.

Our population is aging, and Nova Scotia’s older adults are redefining what it means to age, with regard to our community leaders, volunteers, business owners and mentors. Older Nova Scotians are the backbone of our communities, bringing valuable experience and knowledge to the workplace, while enjoying longer, healthier, and more active lives.

Along with the good news come challenges. Older Nova Scotians face ageism, burnout, and barriers to aging in place, like social isolation. Our government is leading the discussion to reframe how we think about aging by continuing to create and foster environments that help our older adults thrive. We are making progress, but there remains work to be done.

Madam Chair, in May 2017, Premier McNeil launched SHIFT: Nova Scotia’s Action Plan for an Aging Population. The vision of SHIFT is that all Nova Scotians value, support and promote older Nova Scotians and their contributions to our province. The first of its kind in the province, SHIFT identified three areas for focus, a dozen priority items and more than 50 specific actions.

It certainly has been ambitious. SHIFT is a government-wide initiative. Deputy ministers and leaders across provincial government departments and provincial institutions are responsible for implementing the 50 actions outlined in the plan that embrace and celebrate the social and economic contributions of older adults; promote healthy, active lifestyles; and help Nova Scotians stay connected to their communities as they age at home.

The Department of Seniors continues to work with our government and community partners to implement all of these actions. An 18-month progress report was published in December 2018 and provides an update on what has been done to advance the SHIFT goals since the launch of the plan. An evaluation of the progress on SHIFT will be developed in the coming months.

In addition to its leadership role on SHIFT, the Department of Seniors has engaged in some other areas. One is increased funding for age-friendly community grants that help make communities better places for Nova Scotians as they age. The grant program provides funding of up to $25,000 for projects in two categories: age-friendly community planning, and community projects that lead to more age-friendly and inclusive communities. Since the launch of SHIFT, the department has invested more than $1 million, as well as over 100 age-friendly community initiatives across Nova Scotia. This year, the department will invest $390,000 to continue to fund this important program.

Second, the department is expanding the Seniors’ Safety Program. We are helping older adults stay safe by expanding the Seniors’ Safety Program to more communities in Nova Scotia. In the last year, we implemented changes to the program to support multi-year funding agreements, and we are working to expand the program to more communities. The Seniors’ Safety Program is a community-based program that addresses the concerns of older Nova Scotians by promoting education and awareness about abuse and crime prevention, safety, and health issues. It’s currently available in 16 communities across the province. Two new communities - Inverness and Guysborough - are currently working on plans to adopt the program.

Third, we established NS GovLab, government’s first social innovation lab. Focused on population aging, our social innovation lab offers a forum to bring people together from all walks of life to tackle complex problems in new, innovative ways, creating a future inclusive of all Nova Scotians. In its first year, NS GovLab accepted 43 fellows into the first two cohorts. Last year, NS GovLab began working with its fourth cohort, engaging more citizens to find new solutions to challenges faced by our aging population. The work is experimental. Fellows try things out and learn from doing. The lab offers a forum that empowers participants to develop skills and to take an active role in positively impacting and co-creating the future. So far, fellows have developed eight prototypes, for example: (1) a service to navigate various supports and services for older Nova Scotians that became a matching service between older Nova Scotians living in apartment buildings with community volunteers; (2) a platform for community transportation service providers to reduce the challenges of booking and managing rides; (3) a tool kit that increases the capacity of older food champions to host conversations and events about food in their communities; and (4) an online tool that will support assessment to aging in place.

I’d also like to highlight an event happening this May, delivered in partnership with the Acadia Entrepreneurship Centre. This free event, called the Silver Economy Summit, will bring together employers, entrepreneurs, researchers and community leaders, including many older adults, to share their knowledge about the many ways older Nova Scotians contribute to our economy. Madam Chair, 35 per cent of people between the ages of 25 and 69 are still in the workforce, and of those, 25 per cent are self-employed.

This year, 2020-21, the department will publish the 30^th edition of the Positive Aging Directory. Another action outlined in the SHIFT plan, the Positive Aging Directory is a valuable resource to highlight community activities, programs and services that support our aging population. Each year the directory is updated to provide older Nova Scotians with quick and easy access to information on learning, socializing, volunteering and being active. Topics range from information on finances, employment and entrepreneurship to caregiving and housing. Important phone numbers and contact information ensure that information is just a call away.

Last year we launched an anti-ageism campaign that initially focused on the economic contribution of older Nova Scotians. Elements included radio, print, and social media advertising, featuring a video that has had over 46,000 views so far. The call to action was the SHIFT website, which links to available programs and supports for workers and employers.

As Minister of Communities, Culture and Heritage, there are several actions that we will be working on in support of SHIFT. We’ll be setting a clear vision for the voluntary sector in Nova Scotia. This will help to keep seniors engaged, as well as provide services to seniors within the community by people who know the community best.

We know that transportation is important to making our communities age-friendly. As part of the Culture Action Plan’s mandate to strengthen communities, the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage invested more than $8.5 million for accessible and affordable transportation across the province.

In the Budget Speech and provincial Business Plan tabled earlier this week, the province also commits to doing more on SHIFT in 2020-21 and onwards. The Department of Seniors will continue to lead coordinated efforts to ensure that the issues, opportunities and contributions of older Nova Scotians are considered in government decision making, by bringing a senior lens to policies and programs.

Madam Chair, I would like to thank the staff of the department and across government who support these important programs every day. I’m proud of the work of our team and our colleagues across government as they continue to implement SHIFT.

At this time, I’d be pleased to take questions from my colleagues and look forward to the opportunity to provide as much detailed information as I and my staff can present.

THE CHAIR: We’re moving to the PC Party for their first hour. We’re starting with Ms. Adams.

BARBARA ADAMS: Thank you for that summary. I had a look at a video that the Premier was showing at chambers of commerce events. In it was a list of some of the things that the Premier was espousing as accomplishments over the past year. I counted 27 of them. Not one of them had anything to do with seniors. I’m just wondering if the minister can tell me how, over this past year, seniors in this province are better off than they were the year before.

LEO GLAVINE: I thank the member from the PC caucus for joining the discussion and for questions regarding our seniors initiative and work across the province.

[5:45 p.m.]

I believe, as I mentioned, we have taken on that video initiative to present to Nova Scotians exactly what seniors are engaged in across the province, especially in relation to work, volunteerism, and working against ageism in particular. I think that’s where we have focused. There are also many initiatives that the Premier would have talked about that would embrace seniors.

One of the real developments that has taken place with seniors is that we’ve been working across a number of departments. We know, for example, whether it’s housing, transportation, the component in CCH in particular of Let’s Get Moving, these are areas that are obviously supporting seniors. As recently as a few weeks ago, we were reaching out into some of our rural communities with the very, very first rural aging centre. This was, of course, announced in Middleton to look at a community-based model for senior care. They’ve had a wonderful adult daycare program there. Now they’re going to use their CCA and LPN programs to help build up what I would call a cluster of expertise, and we’ll roll this out into three other areas of the province to look at the very specific areas of how aging in rural areas has some very unique challenges.

I would say that around entrepreneurship we have “the luffa lady” in the video. She’s a senior who returned to our province from British Columbia and has now started a wonderful business opportunity in our province that we as both the Department of Seniors and Department of Agriculture have reached out to in support.

BARBARA ADAMS: The Group of IX, I believe, in the past got some funding through the Department of Seniors. I’m wondering if you can tell me what their current funding amount is.

LEO GLAVINE: While we’re looking up that exact figure, I would say myself and the Minister of Health and Wellness have had some wonderful advisory consultations and opportunities to meet and get, in a formal manner, a review of what we’re doing, but also present some very strong ideas about the areas in which more help, more support, more program delivery could help our seniors.

We’re fortunate to have probably nine of the largest retirement groups in the province represented by the Group of IX. We truly have seen them and their work as a strong advisory group. Also, since they reach out to retired doctors, retired teachers, retired provincial civil servants, CARP, of course, the federal agency, Community Links, and on we go with these particular groups. It gives us a chance, and I’ve had that opportunity, to sit down, in fact just recently, and look at the housing issue and seniors - to get some very focused attention on that particular area.

Also, each year, I will meet with the Chair, and it’s a wonderful opportunity, and there’s no reason why our colleagues and the Critics for Seniors couldn’t meet with the advisory group. One of the things that I really like is the fact that they give us their priorities. Each year, I will meet with the Group of IX, and very often it’s the Chair, who currently is a retired teacher, Bill Berryman. They will outline what they see as maybe one to five priorities for a particular year. It generally will cross departments. In fact, both the Department of Seniors and the Department of Health and Wellness have actually acted on some of the priorities that they have presented.

Budgeted for 2020-21 is $17,000 to support the work of the Group of IX. Since they meet on a regular basis, and they come from different parts of the province, they also will bring in special speakers to inform them and help them deal with some of the complex issues that seniors have.

BARBARA ADAMS: I just want to be sure I heard correctly, and I wrote it down. You said that you didn’t see any reason why we could not meet with the advisory group.

LEO GLAVINE: While they do give advice to government, I’m certainly not in any way against their lead, their chairperson, meeting with Opposition, for sure.

BARBARA ADAMS: That perfectly leads into my next question. I used to serve on two of those groups, Community Links and the CARP Nova Scotia board. I reached out to them on January 30^th, and I asked very simply - I just said, I’m writing to all Group of IX advisory council members to ask for your advice and recommendations. I mentioned that the budget would be released, and I said I would like to hear from them about what they’re hoping will be continued in the provincial budget. I also wanted to know if they would be willing to share their thoughts or concerns about current or pending legislation or regulations that affect seniors in Nova Scotia. I went on to explain who I was so they would know why.

This is the response I got January 30^th from Bill Berryman: Thank you, Barbara, for your email. As Chair of the Seniors’ Advisory Council of Nova Scotia for the past six years, I respectfully request you do not contact our members and ask these questions. Since 1992, the Group of IX, now called the Seniors’ Advisory Council, has advised the provincial government on seniors’ issues by raising and responding to issues on behalf of seniors in Nova Scotia. Our mandate, as we meet on a monthly basis with members from the Department of Seniors, is to advise the government. I am not prepared to have our organizations respond to the other political Parties, which could place us in conflict with the provincial government. I would request you contact all members and indicate that your email was sent in error. Thank you, Bill Berryman.

I will advise you that I did not send that email suggesting it was sent in error because I didn’t see anything wrong with me sending the letter. I am deeply concerned, given the fact that I was on two of those boards, that any one of these groups would feel that they are not allowed to speak to Opposition Party members. Given what you said even before I asked this question, it doesn’t marry. You’re saying that it’s fine for us to meet with them. He’s insisting that none of those groups reach out. In fact, he must have spoken to them because I had no response from any group, save one, and I won’t mention which one. Can you explain to me why he would say that? Which is the case? Am I allowed to meet with them or not?

LEO GLAVINE: I certainly don’t give them a list of people to meet with or not meet with. It would be their prerogative as to who they would want to meet with.

I see them as a wonderful collection of nine organizations that simply offer advice. That’s basically what their role and work is. I value their work, and sometimes we will take one of their recommendations and incorporate it into program delivery. It could be right across a number of our departments. I would say that over the course of my time, having been Minister of Seniors since 2013, they have probably had people from almost every department in to deal with. They can meet with who they feel they want to meet with.

They’re meeting with representatives of nine organizations and a significant number of departments. Perhaps they feel that they’re well-backgrounded. They will get people from Pharmacare and from Housing to also give them some of the basis on which some of their ideas need fuller development.

I leave it to the judgment of their executive in terms of who they meet. The chair is obviously the person who would make a decision on who they’re going to meet with.

BARBARA ADAMS: I think I’m still concerned that a group that is getting some government funding is suggesting to both me and to its members that they are prohibited from meeting with me. I’m wondering whether you’re prepared to write to all Group of IX members and indicate your support for them to meet with Opposition Parties. Whether they do or not, presumably would be their choice. This gives me the impression that they feel that they should not and cannot meet with us.

LEO GLAVINE: I just want to make it very clear that no advice has come from me or government to determine who they would meet with. It’s totally their prerogative as to who they meet with. They would establish their own rules. Whether they take a vote on who comes to present to them, again, that would be totally their decision making.

BARBARA ADAMS: Thank you very much. I will reach out again and see if there’s any better luck next time.

I want to start with the actual budget amounts and ask for some clarification. When I look at Page 20.2, Departmental Expenses Summary, the Administration costs forecast for 2019-20 versus 2020-21, that $591,000 represents 22 per cent of your whole budget. The year before, the $473,000 represented only 18 per cent. That suggests to me that administrative costs have gone up. Then when you look at the Seniors’ Initiatives, which are directly impacting seniors, the $2,120,000 represents 78 per cent, whereas the year before it represented 82 per cent. So, when we’re saying that we’re investing more for seniors, these two numbers are suggesting that administrative costs have gone up but actually Seniors’ Initiatives have gone down by 4 per cent. Is that accurate?

[6:00 p.m.]

LEO GLAVINE: If we take a look at 2019-20, look at the Forecast, essentially there is a small difference in the Estimate for 2020-21. Of course, there would be perhaps a wage factor in there. In 2019-20, we were underspent in Administration. Primarily, the Department of Seniors is a policy-driven department, so there could be, again, some expertise brought in in a particular year and not in another year to work with the department in a part-time role. That’s where that would account for the differences.

BARBARA ADAMS: Following down just under Departmental Expenses by Object, under Grants and Contributions, this year’s Grants and Contributions amount of $1.2 million represents 44 per cent of the departmental budget; the year before, it represented 50 per cent. So, what it’s looking like to me is that the salaries and administrative costs of the Department of Seniors have gone up, but the grants and contributions are going down. Is that accurate?

LEO GLAVINE: What we can discern from a detailed look here at the budget is that target adjustment for work with partner organizations to promote senior entrepreneurship, that is where the change and the reduction is actually taking place. It wouldn’t be specifically for age-friendly communities or any of our mainstay grant programs.

BARBARA ADAMS: Were any programs cut this year or had their funding reduced, for seniors?

LEO GLAVINE: We wouldn’t have program cuts outside of that area around entrepreneurship, which can vary from year to year in terms of initiatives that will come forward to be supported. Also, of course, the Silver Economy Summit and that entrepreneurial work would be in our budget now that we are having the Silver Economy Summit every two years. That’s what we find best province wide. Again, it’ll depend on what our partner, this year being the Acadia small business, that’s what will determine how far travel may be from year to year. That’s where some of that variance is. In our mainstay programs, we would not see a variation.

BARBARA ADAMS: I know a few years ago, the Alzheimer Society of Nova Scotia got $300,000 a year funding. There are other organizations like the Arthritis Society and the Canadian Lung Association that get no funding from the provincial government. I’m wondering, given the mandate of your department, if your government has discussed any policy changes with respect to providing support for organizations like the Arthritis Society or the Lung Association.

LEO GLAVINE: We have organizations that have different degrees of funding ability, and again, we know that a number of our organizations that play a key role in supporting those with different physical and mental challenges or seniors, have had some funding challenges. We have met with a number of organizations throughout the year. Primarily, they’re wanting us, as a small Department of Seniors to become an advocate for them with the Department of Health and Wellness. The Department of Health and Wellness is really the department that does reach out, whether it’s CNIB, Heart & Stroke, or any of these initiatives, even down to the Heartland Tour. It’s the Department of Health and Wellness that is more directly involved.

That being said, we are primarily a policy department. As I said, we have a few very key and important programs that we deliver from year to year. On occasion, we are challenged to support a very good initiative and make a case for seniors, and we do meet with other government departments. We recently met around the whole area of dementia with about six different departments so that we gained the most from each department in pushing forward an idea or initiative.

BARBARA ADAMS: I wanted to ask a little bit about the Seniors’ Safety Program. I’m aware of how it works.

When we were at the Health Committee and discussing mental health issues, one of the statistics that we were discussing is the fact that seven and a half Nova Scotians try to take their own lives every day, and there are certain groups that are more at risk than others: the 50 to 60 range and senior men. So, I know that traditionally the Seniors’ Safety Program was helping people who are homeless or who were temporarily in a medical crisis, but I’m wondering how many of the people you’re seeing through the Seniors’ Safety Program are there because of mental health challenges.

LEO GLAVINE: That’s a really, really important question because one of the, perhaps, more enlightening conversations that I have when I go to their AGM - and almost all of our Seniors’ Safety Program coordinators are there - is the way their role has changed over the number of years since this program has been initiated. I would say, first and foremost, how valued this program is, whether it’s by the RCMP, local police officers, or agencies that deal with seniors. We will get this exact statistic around the mental health area for the member.

One of the areas that I really like about the seniors’ safety officers is that personal casework that they do, going into the home, whatever the issue may be - if it’s a cyber-type of scam that they’re investigating, if it’s a mental health issue with a breakdown between a senior couple - they are making sure that all of the right partners are in place.

Over the past year, we’ve had what I would call a few classic cases where three or four different mental health agencies come together with community members to make sure that, in fact, a member is now placed. They had temporary shelter. They really call for an assessment for the person to make sure that they’re now placed in the best setting for their future. A couple have gone to residential care centres rather than be in a shelter or have been temporarily taken out of a home and are in a short-term placement.

What we are truly finding out is that seniors’ problems can also be very complex ones. Our seniors’ safety officers have become the gatekeepers for many of our challenging problems around mental health, around housing and around crime in particular.

I haven’t in the past year gone around to visit some of our seniors’ safety officers. I have in the past. Some of the accounts they give of work they’ve been able to do, and also, more than anything, their work validated by police and supported by police is really quite remarkable. They have become one of the first lines of investigation, whether it’s a car that shows up in a driveway in a rural setting a couple of times a week, and they may call 211. It’s the seniors’ safety officer who is often deployed, since there’s no crime in progress, but rather there needs to be some vigilance carried out. Again, it’s our seniors’ safety officer who is going out to handle this.

I have only kudos for the work that they’re doing. Some of the complex areas they often go in to deal with are hoarding, poverty, fraud, abuse, housing. These are some of the areas that they’re dealing with. It’s great to see that two of our very few remaining counties - Guysborough and Inverness - are currently looking at having a seniors’ safety officer. We’ll provide the funding for them, as we do with the other counties.

[6:15 p.m.]

BARBARA ADAMS: You just mentioned that you were going to be providing funding to two new Seniors’ Safety Programs. Where does that show up on the budget line?

LEO GLAVINE: It comes in our budget on Page 21.2, under Grants and Contributions. We’re currently at the $425,000 mark for seniors’ safety officers across the province, which is almost all of our counties now. The additional money in 2020-21, if Inverness and Guysborough get their person in place, will come out of the Grants and Contributions.

The other area - actually, I brought this up when meeting with the mayor of CBRM; they do not have a seniors’ safety officer at this point. A very considerable percentage of their population being seniors, it would certainly be beneficial to their community.

BARBARA ADAMS: I just want to clarify. You said it was on Page 21.2. That’s under Service Nova Scotia. That’s not your department. My Page 21.2 is Service Nova Scotia. So it’s under Service Nova Scotia?

LEO GLAVINE: It’s possible that the page numbers could be different. We have $1,209,000 under Grants and Contributions. There’s $425,000 currently in use, and if we go to $475,000, it would come out of that global amount for grants and contributions.

BARBARA ADAMS: How many seniors were - I don’t like the word “enrolled” - in the Seniors’ Safety Program - had to access it? What’s the number of people who were involved in it in 2019?

LEO GLAVINE: We don’t have that number with us, but we’re more than willing to provide that to the member.

Based on my personal conversation with a number of the seniors’ safety officers, at times of the year, they’re very challenged to keep up with the demands of a caseload. They would actually like to be doing more in the education field, holding community seminars to equip seniors with the tools to deal especially with the scams that come along, and vigilance with their homes. They put on these seminars in communities throughout counties. Again, getting the time to do this because of caseload. Very often some of the police officers will come with the seniors’ safety officer and also go through a series of best practices that the senior should be following.

BARBARA ADAMS: Less than four months ago, I had a senior who was living in the Walmart parking lot, and it made the news. She couldn’t go up stairs, so she couldn’t come into my home. It took Community Services close to a month to put her up in a motel. What I’m wondering is, with the housing crisis upon us, whether the Seniors’ Safety Program is going to need to be expanded as seniors age if the housing crisis continues. I know in her case, she was in a bad way. I’m just wondering if your department has had a conversation with the rest of the departments to say, you need a bigger budget because the Seniors’ Safety Program is actually being used more? I want to know whether more people are needing the Seniors’ Safety Program now compared to other years. I’m not sure if you’re aware of whether there are more calls going out for this.

LEO GLAVINE: There’s no question that the number of cases and demands are coming at them in pretty strong numbers. They also have great partnerships available to them. Very often, they’re able to respond in a relatively short time when somebody is without appropriate housing. I’ve dealt directly through my office, reaching out to the seniors’ safety officer when we have a case that, really, they’re the only one to go to for support.

We’ve just given them three years of funding to let them know that all these positions and planning with municipalities, as part of their financial support, can be planned for for the next three years. Maybe in some of our larger counties, we may very well have to look at, perhaps, additional supports. We keep monitoring their work and their annual meeting is attended by department personnel. Getting their reports in annually definitely gives us a great insight as to what other needs they may have.

When you consider that they’re dealing with continuing care, dealing with housing, dealing with the RCMP - these are big demands on our seniors’ safety officers. They love their work. We started to talk about senior navigators, and they were very worried that maybe we were going to go down that road instead of the kind of classic role that they now play. They love the casework. They love finding a positive result for a senior. They’re here to stay, and this is why the three-year funding, which gives the municipal units an opportunity to make sure that the right amount of funding for salaries and running an office is in place.

BARBARA ADAMS: Thank you very much. I’m going to turn the remaining over to my colleague.

THE CHAIR: Ms. Smith-McCrossin.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: Good evening. How are you?

LEO GLAVINE: Very well, thank you, pleased to have you join the conversation.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: I represent Cumberland North, and we have a very high population of seniors in our area, and they contribute greatly in many ways. I have had several come to me with concerns around the CAP. I’m wondering if your department has advised your colleagues in the Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing and other bureaucrats who may be working on this issue. How does your department feel potential removal of the CAP will affect seniors?

LEO GLAVINE: I want to welcome the member for Cumberland North to the discussion around seniors. I know her interest from the health side and her seniors. I like her line of questioning and perspective because we all know that keeping seniors in their homes needs to be number one. It’s an area that I committed to in terms of care, both as Minister of Seniors and Minister of Health and Wellness, but we have to be able to provide the right set of circumstances for that to occur.

At the present time, we’ve had a discussion with the Group of IX, the advisory group to the department, to the minister. That way, they can capture the views of a very large number of retirees across the province. We’re really in very early days, as you know. It’s almost like the idea at this stage has been floated out there. We know that it also poses challenges sometimes, when a home is sold and the new taxation based on the value of the home comes forward.

At this point in time, we have not taken a determined position. The Group of IX may very well give us one that they want us to advocate for, but they’re still doing their own study of the issue because they need to garner across the province. We all know that in some areas, this has literally helped to keep seniors in their homes. If it were removed, we know that hardship is going to occur, especially if there’s no easement into what the new taxation may be. We don’t have a determined position but one that we want to see discussed.

I wasn’t at the full period of time with the Group of IX when housing was an agenda item, at their last meeting, but they’re certainly aware of it and wanting to deal with it. They’re a group that doesn’t shy away from very challenging topics. Whether it’s shingles vaccination or whether it’s Seniors’ Pharmacare, they challenge. What I like about it is when they take a position, they’re very well informed and have a very, very strong basis and rationale for the positions that they do take.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: I’ve had many seniors approach me - especially when it was in the media with our recent CAP meetings - who are quite concerned because most of them are on fixed income. In relation to that, has the department advocated on behalf of seniors, or do they see a need to advocate on behalf of seniors for government to take a look at the current guidelines or base salaries when looking at grants.

For example, I’ve had a few seniors come to me who are still in their own homes. Most of them who have come to me are widows, so they only have one income, and they may literally be $400 over the allowable amount. Because they’re in their own home, they have windows that need repair, light fixtures that need repair, lawn care, snow removal, and they’re finding it very difficult. They’d like to be able to apply for housing support and for repairs, but, unfortunately, many of them are over that limit but still basically living in poverty.

[6:30 p.m.]

I’m wondering if you see a need or if your department would consider advocating on behalf of these seniors to have that limit increased or at least evaluated to see if maybe it should be increased.

LEO GLAVINE: I know that we have a big budget for home care, around $360 million, and that also includes, perhaps, some small areas where the home care worker can assist with very small things in the home. The area you’re talking about is absolutely vital if we’re going to keep seniors in their homes. There are many - when, literally, the well runs dry and they need a well, they need a septic system, or they need a new roof put on. In some areas of the province, we’ve been challenged to keep up - like in your area, where there’s a lot of old housing stock. If you go West, a big part of the Prairies is not much more than 125 years old. We’re 400 years old and we’ve got a lot of very, very old housing stock.

Keeping up $25 million to meet all the needs is simply very, very challenging, for sure. I know that they really work to prioritize, and that is: get as many roofs done each Spring, Summer, Fall to make sure that first, most important, item is done. They also have to put some aside for those emergency repairs - we get a major storm, or we have a furnace that goes down in the Winter months. Keeping some in contingency is part of that, as well. We’re going to see an even bigger demand on that amount.

We are also working to tap in to the federal dollars that are available for housing, to make sure that the grant amounts are increased almost year over year because we know the cost of materials that go into homes pretty well has an annual increase. I know during my time in office, I’ve seen the grants go up quite a bit, and also the threshold that a senior can get a grant. We all know that anybody receiving OAS and the supplement, they’re a guarantee, of course.

There was a time when two seniors getting basic amounts were actually above the threshold. They would often give some of the repair amount, but now that’s gone up to make sure that they fit under and qualify for those programs.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: I don’t know if they would ever consider this, but maybe even like a graduated threshold. Say the threshold was $31,000. If they made anything below that, they could qualify for the full grant, but maybe if they were $5,000 above, they could qualify for 50 per cent. It’s hard because a lot of people who are maybe just over don’t qualify at all, and there’s such a need. It’s just something to consider.

I want to go back to Hurricane Dorian. Some family members, some homes in Cumberland North were without power. The longest was eight days. In the Town of Amherst, most people had power within 48 hours. In my outlying communities of Malagash and Wallace, they were up to eight days. I travelled the roads every day and stopped in and visited as many seniors as I could, to check on them. One day I came across this couple - this would have been day five. In rural Nova Scotia, there are wells, so there’s no running water. When there’s no power, they don’t have running water. I checked on them. They were on their back deck. I said, I just want to make sure you still have water. They said, no, we ran out of water, but we have some beer. I gave them some bottled water.

The reason I bring this up is, there was no formal check-in system. I did my best as MLA and I know there are other community members trying to check in on their neighbours. Has the Department of Seniors considered creating some sort of a structure - that would be all volunteer, but we would need someone to facilitate and organize it - where we could have an actual check-in system for communities like Malagash and Wallace, so that we all have peace of mind? So that in the event of a storm like Hurricane Dorian, we know that people are being checked on.

LEO GLAVINE: We know the hardship that, seniors especially who may not have family, and very often the neighbours are coping with the same issues at that particular time. In terms of a check-in process, we have actually supported, through age-friendly grants to some communities, a team of people that will check in on seniors, especially seniors living alone. It has proved to be very valuable, but again, that information is in the hands of the right people. We always have to be careful in terms of having any kind of a major list of people in communities - who they are, their address, phone number, and so on. We certainly always have to guard there.

One of the reviews that I heard about after Hurricane Dorian - when we talk about a control centre, that’s where they would know the number of people in communities and outlying rural areas who are without electricity. They have now decided that, going forward, they will have a more robust team of people. We certainly heard from some of the medical community where you had people that, again, if you’re on home oxygen and a higher level of medical needs. There’s going to be a more robust team that is analyzing calls that come in and known information about people in communities. I think we’re moving in the right direction there, to make sure our senior population can reach out during those very vulnerable times when you get storms that move into beyond three or four days, we know that there could indeed be shortages, whether it’s water or food, or their medication due date is now up.

I think without giving away too much private information, there is certainly greater accountability going all the way back to lessons learned from Juan and White Juan and - was it Arthur? What was the Summer storm that was devastating? It went on for five or six days and hit western Nova Scotia hard, in particular. I think it was Arthur, the first hurricane of the season, which came in July. We keep learning more about how to reach out, especially to seniors who may need supports during that time. Thank you for raising the issue.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: There are a lot of seniors who come to me under financial duress, whether they’re having difficulty covering the expenses of staying in their homes, for some, it’s even transitioning into long-term care or residential care facilities. I see a need for providing some sort of financial counselling. I met with a woman just two weeks ago who is now admitted into long-term care. She had no intention of staying there. She was planning on going back to her home. The cost that she was being charged for being in long-term care, and even the bed when she was in hospital for some period of time. She still had to pay her water bill and her heating bill in her home because she still owned her home. Do you see any opportunity in the future for the Department of Seniors to be providing some financial counselling, financial management, support to seniors?

LEO GLAVINE: Right now, the key front-line person to support - and perhaps it’s a position that maybe some communities haven’t done as much advertising for, but I know as MLAs if we send out a brochure it’s a great number and person to have included - is the seniors’ safety officer. We’re using them very much on the front line for this. If they themselves cannot meet the challenge of a particular issue, they have partners who they know can help the senior out. It’s a great area.

THE CHAIR: Order. Time has elapsed. We’ll now move on to the New Democratic Party. Ms. Chender, you have one hour.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Minister, it has been interesting to hear your introduction and the questions of my colleagues.

I think I’ll jump into some questions on the budget that you had discussed a little bit with my colleagues. I think the member for Cole Harbour-Eastern Passage mentioned that it does appear that the overall budget has gone down. I believe you mentioned that that had something to do with the seniors’ entrepreneurship package, but you mentioned in your opening that this budget is committing more to the SHIFT program. I’m wondering where we see that.

LEO GLAVINE: SHIFT was a three-year program that was funded. Essentially, we have that funding now in place going forward into year four.

In terms of our program delivery, especially to carry out and continue the work of SHIFT, we do have that funding in place, plus $495,000 for NS GovLab. This has been developed and we’ve primarily used the HRM as our location to bring a cohort in. We’re hoping with this new funding for the NS GovLab that we’ll also reach out into communities across the province.

[6:45 p.m.]

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Just to clarify, it sounds like initially there was a three-year commitment, but that has been extended to year four, which is the additional funding that you spoke of. I’m seeing a head nod, so I’ll take that as a yes.

In terms of NS GovLab, I’ve heard a lot of great things about it. I know a lot of people involved in it in a lot of different ways, just kind of randomly, from facilitation through co-operation. I’m always a little bit struck that we see GovLab in one of the departments with the lowest budgets in our government. I do think it’s really valuable and I think the approach is valuable. I downloaded the NS GovLab manual and it says that the four goals are: to deeply understand our aging population; build skills and capacity for social innovation; build and test prototypes to support our aging population; and create a network of engaged social innovators. I think bullets two and four don’t require a lot of money, but bullet three, to build and test the prototypes - I’m wondering. We have a huge senior population in Nova Scotia. We know that. If this NS GovLab is really going to find the answers, those answers are going to have big budget implications, potentially.

What’s the communication stream? These people get together, they think, they innovate, they come up with good ideas and, hopefully, they even prototype those. Then what happens? How does that get communicated? Potentially, how does that turn into a larger initiative that has real dollars attached?

LEO GLAVINE: I’ve been out to meet with the cohorts, and I’ve gone to their concluding events and certainly found it pretty enlightening, what they were coming up with. The premise of your question is so correct. We’re kind of that incubator now for all kinds of seniors initiatives to see how we will figure out the challenge before us.

When you consider Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, we’re very close in percentage. But we and Florida are the two most senior populations in North America. When I’ve gone to seniors ministers’ conferences, we are being looked at. We are being asked about what we are doing. This really was the basis to say, we have a number of good programs, but what are the ways in which we can step out of the box and hear from people who have good ideas around supporting the aging demographic?

We’re also taking some of these ideas - because they’re more associated with transportation or with housing or with health - and starting very small and then working to scale them up. I mentioned three or four of those prototypes in my opening remarks tonight. Some will very well, in my view, require the private sector to partner with this ideas bank, as I would call it. You’re right on. We won’t have the money to develop prototypes that are going to be assistive technology in a home, for example. We’ll start with a very, very small initiative. If it’s one that is critically reviewed and seen as valuable to support seniors, we’ll have to go beyond the Seniors budget to execute any of those.

I think the real value here, that I saw, was bringing people together who all feel a sense of mission around how we can support our seniors to age in place better, improve their well-being, and work with those who have disabilities and challenges. We’re hoping now, as we move the GovLab out into a small stream to some areas across the province - we will also look at what’s different in a rural setting, what the high needs are there, and how we can support seniors in their homes.

The deputy minister has a wonderful saying that he uses, especially in relation to the GovLab, and that is none of us is as smart as all of us together. I found that coordinated work - where they really bounce the ideas around before they put anything into something of a concrete way in which to try on and experiment with - it’s very novel. We haven’t come across any other provinces that are doing this. I think you, as well, see value here, if we can come up with some creative ways to find solutions.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I don’t want to be snide, but I can’t pass up the opportunity to say I wish that all of government felt the same as your deputy about all of us together having more value in producing good ideas than one of us alone. I’ll just keep pushing that one from over here, see how it goes, see if GovLab can reproduce that idea throughout all of government.

On a serious note, while I think the work is great and innovative, without the opportunity - I get it, some things might need private sector investment. The biggest challenges that I hear about facing seniors, some of which I’ll ask about, are things around health and housing and transportation - all things for which this government has a mandate.

My fear is that we bring people together to ideate and innovate, and we don’t have the capacity to scale. My question is - when you get a big idea that everyone has come up with, that is greater than the sum of its parts, that might really create a big difference in people’s lives, that would be a big task for another department - do you have a process for bringing those ideas to your Cabinet colleagues and making sure that they get the airing and the consideration that they ought to?

LEO GLAVINE: You’re right. We need to bring a lot of people together sometimes to get best results. There will be a lot of time spent on perhaps some areas that won’t prove to be as valuable as others. I know when we started SHIFT and we brought people together from all across the province, there was certainly a real collection of strong ideas, but with three overriding themes that we continue to develop.

I feel that the GovLab will fit nicely with the next version of SHIFT. SHIFT will need to be updated. I think we have some very strong ideas, where we’ve given a small grant to people like Dr. Cassidy to work on some of her initiatives. GovLab will bring some, as well. As we develop the next version of SHIFT, we’ll incorporate some of those ideas out of the GovLab.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Back to your introduction, minister, you mentioned that the core issues that your department was looking at were ageism, barriers to aging in place - and I have burnout written here, I think. The biggest issue that I see in my office with seniors is more financial. I think my colleagues both spoke of that, as well. I’m wondering if poverty is an issue that your department is addressing. I know you’ve spoken a little bit about, kind of, navigator functions that your department provides in that respect. I’m wondering if there’s anything else or if there’s anything you’re looking at or measuring in particular.

LEO GLAVINE: I would say that perhaps for all Canadians, but certainly our Nova Scotia seniors, the OAS and the supplement is what they have to live on. It’s certainly challenging to the extreme. One of the areas that I know of from the Group of IX and our department is formulating positions on is, indeed, income security. It has become a necessary topic for us to take a look at. It’s fine to have a few great programs like the seniors’ safety officer and age-friendly communities, but we do have to respond to those growing issues of seniors.

I know the basic personal exemption, when that increased, that helped a good number of our seniors. We’re doing work to promote energy efficiency for seniors to get their homes assessed for what would be the needs that would improve their energy efficiency and lower their cost of heating. All of those, then, can be assists with the very elderly seniors especially - Pharmacare needs on the co-pay requirement, taxes, energy. Fortunately, the province and most municipalities now do give a small tax exemption to seniors, which is very helpful.

We started something in the department that we have found to be extremely beneficial. It’s that upstream work that we have to do more of. We have a food program, where we are buying from - is it just Superstore? I think it’s an agreement with Superstore that we would be buying product at cost or a bit below and delivering it, especially into complexes where there are a number of seniors who are very low-income seniors. We are not giving the food out, but they’re buying it at the low cost because we’re putting some dollars in to allow for that to happen. We’re delivering by bus to 12 locations right now, but it may be a program that we will find extremely valuable to spread wider beyond HRM. As we know, when we have high-density populations, certainly there’s ease to deliver a program like that. We’re getting very strong reviews on it.

[7:00 p.m.]

Sometimes it can be an array of areas. I would say that one of the areas, when we talk about the collective giving us good support, is transportation. I know as Minister of Seniors for about four years, in our first mandate, I was very frustrated with the transportation needs that we were hearing about. We had a perfect alignment, just that the two departments happened to come together so quickly, the Department of Seniors and Communities, Culture and Heritage; I happened to be minister of both of these. We said to the deputy minister and to the lead in my department, Bill Greenlaw, we said, go around the province and find out what we need most to tackle first with transportation.

We now have $8.5 million going in to support community transportation, the rural transportation network, and community transport. We have seen the expansion of those routes out into rural areas and a number of fixed routes. Of course, the people who are most in need are the seniors who no longer can afford a car or no longer are permitted to drive. This has been one of the areas where, again, it took a number of departments but finally got down to two to deliver what I think has wonderful merits for a number of reasons.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: All those upstream pieces are more than welcome. There are a few downstream ones, though, and I’ll talk about housing next. Before that, one of the issues we had in our office, we have had several files, is that we have had seniors on those fixed incomes that we talked about, living below the poverty line who were consistently being told by Employment Support and Income Assistance that they were required to apply for CPP early; if they were eligible for CPP, then that was income. We know that if they apply early, they don’t get their full benefit. Essentially, the policy is making them poorer. I wonder if that’s something your department has heard about or is engaged in at all.

LEO GLAVINE: This is a question that really raises a topic of enormous concern. It may be one for us as a department, the Group of IX, and us reaching across to other departments because that policy comes out more from Community Services than it would directly, but it’s certainly affecting seniors. There’s no question. In many ways, it exacerbates an area that I certainly, in my time in office, people between 55 and 65 who don’t have a good income and are relying on one program or another, whether it’s CPP or whether it’s income assistance. I’m reminded that income assistance is the program of last resort, and other streams can be tapped into. I mentioned earlier some of the things we are doing in the Department of Seniors to support, whether it’s improving energy efficiency, upstream work, and so forth. But it is an area that I am not 100 per cent sure if it’s policy driven or if it’s just a fact of life that income assistance is that final source of income.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’m sure we’ll be back at this, and I won’t belabour it, but I would say that what the staff in MLA offices have seen is that that has been on the books for a long time, and it has only been enforced the last few years. While yes, income assistance is of course last resort, by creating that policy where people need to apply early - it’s arguable that that should exist as income anyway because it’s reduced - I would argue that the government is creating more expense for themselves down the line because these people are living in poverty.

I want to move on to housing. One of the biggest issues I see this year in my office is seniors on fixed incomes - good fixed incomes - being priced out of their homes. There’s lots of new residential development in parts of my constituency, nice apartment buildings that are basically designed for seniors who are downsizing, whose financial advisers say, it doesn’t make any sense for you to buy; you’re 65, you’re 68, so it makes much more sense for you to rent an apartment. They rent an apartment, and the rent goes up every year. It goes up $100 a year, and it goes up $200 a year; by year two or three or four, they can’t afford it anymore because their income, of course, is not going up. It’s fixed. It’s not bad, but it’s fixed. Obviously, our Party has been pressing for some ability to stabilize rental increases, of which there is none. There is no ability right now. I’m just wondering if this is something that your department is hearing or looking at.

LEO GLAVINE: I would say that this area, housing, really is brought to us more by the Group of IX, since they hear from retirees. The Group of IX is made up of what I would say are very well-off retirees, all the way down to Community Links and seniors on a lower income, who, in fact, just had, I think, a full day dealing with housing. I’m likely to get some recommendations to have me advocate as Minister of Seniors. They have started to tackle it because in the past while, I look at my own community down in the Valley and the areas around housing that seniors are challenged with.

I must say Housing Nova Scotia is aggressively looking at the Valley area again. We have five of the eight oldest-average-age communities in Nova Scotia, right through the Windsor to Digby corridor. The effort to provide developers with the supports to build but then have a reasonable rent for those seniors; I have seen a number of those in my own riding and throughout the Valley. The need is just very difficult to keep up now with the demand.

It’s going to be interesting to see as our Group of IX have just gone through and brought in a number of people to speak to housing, they went across departments to take a look. I believe it will be not just the Group of IX but perhaps a few departments coming together to take a look at whether it’s in fact - I was just able to stay for part of their meeting - co-housing or a village concept. Those certainly came to the fore. I have found the Group of IX to be a wonderful advocacy group, and therefore we need to listen to what they have to say. From a senior perspective, we’re really just starting to formulate, we put it in SHIFT, and a lot was around increasing the amount of money for housing repairs to help seniors stay in their home. We are seeing Housing Nova Scotia prioritize some of the repairs each year.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I can’t speak to the Group of IX because I don’t know exactly which organizations those are. What I can tell you is that the seniors advocacy groups that we have met with, through no fault other than their composition, don’t tend to advocate for the lowest income seniors. They tend to be made up of retirees or folks who have some time, energy, leeway, and finances in their lives to lend themselves to advocacy. I stand to be corrected.

My second question around this is around public housing and Housing Nova Scotia. What I have seen in my own constituency, which has a number of Metropolitan Regional Housing buildings, is that at least two if not three of them were once seniors buildings, and they no longer are. They’re now mixed age buildings, much to the chagrin of the senior residents. There’s a reason for that. The reason is that there’re no new apartments coming online, and there’s an ever-gaping, yawning need for housing. Still, we have these folks with very low incomes who don’t own homes, who can’t afford rent, who even if they received a rent supplement, from what we are hearing, probably wouldn’t be able to use it. I’m wondering if you’re also paying attention to that group and having conversations around that issue.

LEO GLAVINE: There are four groups in particular that we have an opportunity to meet with: Community Links, the Legion, and CARP, all three of those groups are part of the Group of IX; then we meet with the Federation of Senior Citizens and Pensioners of Nova Scotia. What I like about their work is that they provide us with their priorities each year. They mainly stay with four or five areas. As you have pointed out, seniors remains one of those areas, and their housing needs are coming more and more to the forefront. We’ll probably have further conversation.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I want to shift at this point. I just want to have those issues on the radar because, as I said, as Seniors Critic but also as an MLA, those are the seniors issues I’m hearing about in my office.

I want to ask, as you determine, in particular, your grant programs and in general your priorities and programming, if you have a gender or a racial lens that you put on those programs. In terms of gender, we know that there are specific challenges faced by senior women; in terms of race, we know that racialized Nova Scotians access programs differently. We have seen lots of differentials in accessing things like health care. I’m just wondering how you’re looking at those specific issues to ensure folks aren’t getting missed.

[7:15 p.m.]

LEO GLAVINE: I did want to put on the record that the latest Statistics Canada information has Nova Scotia’s poverty rate among seniors below the national average; that’s the most recent that we do have available to us. This was one of the reasons why with Seniors’ Pharmacare Program we added additional thousands, as you know. Again, by making sure that the threshold came down we took many more seniors off the list who would have to pay the premium for seniors. There are other ways that I feel right across departments, as the aging demographic is taking hold in the province, there are many departments that are looking at ways in which we can bring some further financial support to them.

In the coming months, and this year in particular - the NS GovLab was novel, out of the box - we’re going to give the NS GovLab some focus, and it’s going to be around culture, income, and rural. Those are going to be the three focus areas: culture, income, and rural issues.

In regard to the primary question that you did ask, this year all of our age-friendly grants, and they go right across the province to diverse groups and very often some novel ways of supporting their community - I have been really intrigued by the grants that we give out and the groups that receive them - gender and diversity will be a lens of all of our grants, the age-friendly grants, that will go out this year.

We must remember that women still live, on the average, three to four years longer than men; very often, it’s women trying to maintain a household, especially as a single senior who perhaps was never in the formal workplace. This is where I believe one of the areas of both federal and provincial government, as we get bigger numbers, we were on track to have about 30 per cent of our population over the age of 65 all at one time. We’ll definitely reach one in four, but because we have had very successful immigration into the province, the percentage has come down. It doesn’t negate the fact that we will have about 250,000 or 275,000 seniors over 65 all at one time.

We also included an Elder in Residence at the NS GovLab to bring that First Nations lens as well into that picture.

That’s a great question. We have been cognizant of this. Of course, Communities, Culture and Heritage, when it comes to diversity, that is very, very much a part of pretty well everything we do in the department and Seniors, of course, as well. I happen to be the minister of both.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I want to shift gears for a minute and just note this article that came out, I think it was yesterday, “COVID-19 could hit Nova Scotia’s aging population hard.” We know that everyone’s paying attention to the news around COVID-19 and its spread. It has its feet firmly in Canada now, although not in the province so far. I’m wondering, since it looks like it will be a pandemic, this doesn’t affect the juvenile population severely as far as we know so far, but it does affect the seniors population quite severely. That’s where we’re seeing the mortality.

I’m wondering, is your department liaising with the Department of Health and Wellness and with Public Health specifically and specifically around information sharing. We know, as you mentioned earlier that isolation is a particular issue with seniors, making sure that folks have those good Public Health messages and any other initiatives you might be working on.

LEO GLAVINE: That’s a very current topic that’s certainly on the mind of seniors. There’s no question about it, since they are one of the two or three most vulnerable populations. Each year, there is a federal-provincial-territorial meeting for Seniors. I think just about all of our provinces have Ministers of Seniors and probably departments that will continue to grow as well.

At the last call, as ministers prepared for the FPT this year, that was a topic that they were working to address. Rob Strang is not just the Nova Scotia Chief Medical Officer of Health but also a national lead. He is providing the latest information and keeping the website updated. The deputy sent out the contact to the Group of IX to get them at least spreading the word about the website that is giving the latest information. Plus, the Group of IX will have Dr. Strang in next month or at their next meeting.

We’re into a bit of a hurry-up kind of preparation generally because we’re certainly not immune. With the amount of travel that even our seniors do now, and we know the number of cases in the U.S. has been growing, and many of our seniors go to a warm climate so we have to get very well prepared.

I think we’re coordinating with the Department of Health and Wellness as much as we can. We’ll have more information coming out. We probably may have to go beyond a website; there are still many seniors who don’t necessarily plug into an iPhone or an iPad or even the community libraries that make computers available. We’ll see within a very short period of time, within the next month or so, how we as a Department of Seniors can do more to spread those basic areas of good hygiene and preventable steps that will need to be taken.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: So just to clarify, I understand it’s a developing policy area, obviously, but as you say, I am struck by the idea that it’s a website because we know that not all seniors are going to access that website. Not all seniors have access to the internet at all; not all Nova Scotians have access to the internet at all, yet.

I wonder, when it comes to a Public Health campaign, based on your comments, would that be something that you would look to that Group of IX and perhaps support them in? Or would the government take it upon themselves, either through the Department of Health and Wellness or the Department of Seniors to create and fund a campaign like that?

LEO GLAVINE: The Group of IX has 110,000 members. Those would be retirees generally, certainly in the senior category, whether it’s 55, 60, 65, or whatever, but they would be in that category. We know that digital information is not reaching everybody. This is why, the seniors directory, we still provide a hard copy of the seniors directory. It’s too bad we have gone to press, I believe. It’s an area, many seniors pick up a copy, and there are many copies available, in doctors’ offices, available to seniors across the province where they tend to congregate.

My commitment here is to take a quick look to see if there’s still any way we could insert something into the seniors directory. This is an issue where we don’t need to have a panic attack but one where we need a thoughtful process to get information out. It’s good health information anyway in terms of any infectious disease. We’ll see if there’s still an opportunity to get a one-pager in the directory. We’ll be printing about 70,000 copies; very often, that’s a husband and wife, and many of them are in seniors’ homes and so forth.

We know that a cautionary approach here is very important. We’re seeing now in the U.S. where one case in a seniors’ home has now created a very, very serious environment.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’m really pleased to hear that because I think even of the voter cards that we receive; many of us who are doing everything on our smartphones are like who cares, I know where my polling station is, I’ll go deal with it. Some folks, like I don’t know, most of us, have probably knocked on a door where someone says, I can’t vote, I didn’t get my voter card. You’re like, no, you can still vote. There is that allegiance to a piece of paper and the helpfulness that it provides.

I do think a one-pager, obviously, I don’t want to contribute to raising any kind of alarm, but as you say - I know in my area we have retirement residences, we have seniors’ homes - it’s just terrible to think about. We know this virus may not be that much more serious, we don’t know yet, than some of the other ones we have seen, but it’s very transmissible. It’s that public health piece just around the basics, refreshers of the basics. I’m pleased to hear about something like a one-pager or a postcard that could be inserted. That would be great.

My understanding is we’re going to want you to read the resolution at the end of my time. Is that right? I just want to confirm with the Chair. I’m just checking on time here.

THE CHAIR: You have another 14 minutes.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Will the minister need two minutes again?

THE CHAIR: We’ll have time for the PCs.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Okay. Then I won’t worry about that.

THE CHAIR: I will let you know when there’s five minutes left.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I don’t find anything out when I’m here talking. I just have a couple more questions, then, and I’ll probably yield my time to my colleagues over here.

I wonder, going back to the budget, what pieces of this budget include a flow-through of federal funds, if any.

[7:30 p.m.]

LEO GLAVINE: I had to check on that, I wasn’t sure exactly. We would have just a couple of small little amounts that we would coordinate with the feds on a study, for example, or small projects that would affect seniors, but there wouldn’t be any considerable amount from our budget that would trigger senior dollars or leverage senior dollars. They tend to be very minor amounts.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Does your department offer internships? Do you guys hire interns?

LEO GLAVINE: The Department of Seniors is a very small department and moves roughly from 9 or 9.5 to 10 FTEs. There are university programs that have a senior focus; we will take a co-op student. The Department of Seniors wouldn’t have a paid student position for the Summer.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: We’re asking this question of many departments because we’re just trying to understand how those internships and other work arrangements flow through the different departments. Do you know if you guys pay that co-op student or not?

LEO GLAVINE: We did just take a student in the NS GovLab to give them that experience. We will have, in the NS GovLab, as you have come across in your constituency work, people who have participated. They certainly represent a very wide range of our population from retired professionals to those who are advocates for seniors. We actually have started to talk in the department about having a residency position for a senior to give us information and feedback on programs. I think it’s a great idea, myself.

It’s always that sifting and sorting that the lens of a senior can, I think, make it very real in terms of how they would view some of the work that we’re doing but also expose some of the needs that they have. Everything that we do or contemplate doing, comes out of the GovLab, comes out of the age-friendly grant applications; what would a senior be saying about these?

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I think that’s a great idea; that’s first voice. The more you can hear from the folks that you’re serving the better. I’m still interested in whether that co-op student got paid or not, which was my last question.

I’ll move on, and maybe if you have an answer to that question, you could add it. I’m just kind of cleaning up my list here.

You mentioned that you have a gender and diversity lens in your grant programs this year, which is great. I’m wondering if you have measured that from the uptake side. So, have you looked at or done a gender analysis or a diversity analysis of who the successful recipients are and the uptake of the programs?

LEO GLAVINE: I wasn’t sure how deep we went with gender equity and diversity as we developed SHIFT, which has again, become one of those seminal documents that we use. What we’re doing each year as well is, we have a report card to see what we have implemented, how we have implemented it. During the development of SHIFT, we reached out to First Nations, African Nova Scotians, immigrants, and the LGBTQI community; also, an equal number of men and women who served on the actual committee that developed SHIFT.

I think we did very well there, and that’s what gave us two great co-chairs, the deputy and Marjorie Willison. Right from the get-go, the aging male and female seniors, I think, were very equal in terms of the discussion. I love the fact that we brought diversity in right from the get-go.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: In terms of my question around an analysis of uptake and granting, has that been done?

LEO GLAVINE: We haven’t done a formal analysis. However, one of our major programs, the age-friendly, this year, that equity piece there because we will get so many different groups from across the province so, we will have that lens to make sure that we have this in the right direction. If it hasn’t been as strong in the past, certainly the future will have that balance for sure.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I think I only have about five minutes. I’m asking a lot about lenses, but I think that’s because we all acknowledge that it’s a brave new world where we have to think about lots of different things as we put our policies together. I want to just take the opportunity to ask about climate change in particular.

I want to acknowledge that I think a lot of the community transportation work is great just generally in that regard because it gets people travelling together. It gets people out of their cars, which also, obviously, there’s a safety impact as people age and need to get from place to place but maybe ought not to be driving.

Beyond that, has there been any kind of informal or formal look at the GHG impact of your programs and policies or just a general look at climate and impact in the work that you’re doing and the grants that you’re providing?

LEO GLAVINE: That’s an area that is becoming a challenge for government to make sure that we’re a leader in this area. We know that transportation and energy to heat our homes are two of the very big areas. This year, there’s a $10 million grant program coming out of the Department of Energy and Mines for energy efficiency with the focus on low-income homes so that they get the retrofit that’s needed. Out of that group, it’s estimated that 60 per cent will go to seniors, so that’s a very good piece.

I have had the opportunity to go to a number of communities to turn the keys on or see the accessible buses and buses being purchased. What is really interesting is that we now give a grant to - whether it’s Le Transport de Clare, Trans County Transportation Society, Kings Transit Authority, or Strait Area Transit, any of these - to actually develop a good business plan so that we help them buy the right size bus; don’t put the big bus on the road that’s very fuel-inefficient, have smaller buses.

We’re already starting to hear of the first electric bus coming into a few of the fleets. We’re absolutely moving in the right direction there, but it will take a little bit of time to bring that onstream, especially since new buses have been purchased in the last couple of years, and they have a life cycle to go through. The efficiencies of the route and the right size of bus are very much top of mind with those organizations.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’ll just say that that’s great. I hear, you know, the Deputy Minister of Energy and Mines, and I wonder whether you guys could talk some time about incentivizing the electrification of the fleet. We would be looking to that across government, but this is certainly a place I think we could start.

My last question is, did your co-op student get paid?

LEO GLAVINE: My goal, as always, in Seniors and CCH is that no question goes unanswered. We’ll send that along to you.

THE CHAIR: Order. The time has lapsed for the NDP. We move on to the PC Party. We are starting with Ms. Adams.

BARBARA ADAMS: It’s a real privilege to have another opportunity to ask you some questions. One of them is, we were talking about the number of seniors growing, and therefore the number of seniors who are working is also going to be growing, which is a good thing.

As you know, as a physiotherapist, I dealt with a lot of people who had physical limitations or mental health limitations that made it difficult for them to be in the workplace. A statistic that I was given by the Human Rights Commission when we met with them and asked what is the biggest complaint that comes to the Human Rights Commission? They told me 65 per cent, give or take a percentage, was failure of an employer to accommodate the person in the workplace, which was right in my wheelhouse. That’s a big concern. That’s a very big number.

I asked the Human Rights Commission what they were doing to address that. Was it simply that employers didn’t know their obligations? Was it that employees had needs that could not be accommodated because the rule of duty to accommodate only applies if it doesn’t create undue hardship in the workplace. I know that they had developed three online programs, one of which was about duty to accommodate for employers.

I’m wondering, given the fact that the number of seniors who are working is going to increase, my experience is that it’s usually the average age of about 40 to 70 are the people who are developing limitations that don’t necessarily put them completely out. They’re not eligible for CPP disability or LTD or WCB. We have an extremely large and growing number of people who need to be accommodated in the workplace, either for mental, physical, or intellectual disabilities.

[7:45 p.m.]

I’m just wondering whether your department has been involved in helping guide policy with respect to accommodation in the workplace, specifically for seniors.

LEO GLAVINE: You’re absolutely correct. We have a significant number now, but that number is definitely going to grow. How we better accommodate seniors in the workplace will in fact put more challenges into our department. We are making this part of that target of 2030, not just to have physical disabilities accommodated, but that seniors need supportive environments in the workplace. We have developed a tool kit for age-friendly workplaces, which is available. We also offer Nova Scotia Works training for age-friendly workplaces as well.

We have supported the Mount, again not significant grants, but we’ve supported them with studies through their Centre on Aging to find ways in which employers can make some accommodations for a workforce now with seniors working in private, public, self-employed; we’re right at 25 per cent between 69 and 70. We also realize people will go beyond 70. They’re in good health, and they enjoy what they do. For some there is a necessity to be in the workplace as we know as well. We have certainly moved in the right direction there with the work that we have been doing.

BARBARA ADAMS: One of the other challenges that we hear about in our offices is seniors who are asked to fill out forms online. There seems to be a movement away from printing out anything and creating it online. One of them is federal, the tax forms. When we call to get copies of the tax forms, they’ll give us 10 copies, and we have 40 people who want a handout.

I’m just wondering what your department says to other departments in terms of how much of what they’re doing in terms of intake and interviews and whatnot is done where you have to complete the form online. I’m wondering whether the government has a policy around, if you have to fill out the form online, there’s also a potential for filling it out in paperwork if somebody doesn’t have access to a computer.

LEO GLAVINE: Thank you Madam Chair, and great question. There wouldn’t be an MLA in the province who would be exempt from that particular need for seniors; some have made wonderful adaptations. Just to reference, and the member may be very well aware of this, but there’s a wonderful program through the department where we’re providing a grant, CCH primarily, to libraries to assist seniors with learning the basics of iPhones, iPads, and computer technology to increase the people who can. We know that’s a process that will be in the works for perhaps many years. Service Nova Scotia have informed all departments that whatever grants there are for seniors needing assistance, online, phone, and in person will be means of communicating and supporting grant applications or whatever applications they may require.

BARBARA ADAMS: With respect to the number of seniors who are living in housing, the stats that I have are Canadian stats only, ones specifically for Nova Scotia. The number of seniors who live alone where they are deemed to be living below the standards that one would consider acceptable is 43 per cent. I know that sometimes bylaws in municipalities are getting in the way of people living with other people in the community in terms of being able to live with their own children and in-law suites.

I’m just wondering if your department has been promoting a change in policy to make it easier for people to live with others in their communities, whether you’re working with the municipalities to help with that.

LEO GLAVINE: We would still be in early stages, but we have an MOU with the Nova Scotia Federation of Municipalities to document all the regulations or the regulatory processes across the province - we have 50 or 51 municipal units, depending on when we check in on that, I guess; there’s one now just in progress here any day - to take a look at what those barriers and obstacles are. We have heard on a number of them, the granny suite probably being the signature one that has not been accommodated to any great extent.

My view, I say it in very simplistic terms, but we use the phrase it takes a community to raise a child; it’s going to take a full community to take this big cohort through that last 25 or 30 per cent of the life cycle, especially as we have extended longevity considerably. This will be very important work and one that can, I think, bring enormous relief to the housing demands of seniors. When you have a family willing, more than willing, to keep their loved ones close, keep an eye on them and support them, looking at other models and seeing how municipal units can go a long way to support this.

HomeShare Nova Scotia is in the Annapolis Valley, and they’re finding ways of having students live with seniors for support. I think creative, novel, and safer ways for seniors to live can and will need to come into vogue in the coming years. This is why, when Nova Scotia speaks about what we’re doing in support of our seniors and the work that we have going on here - I’m sure, Ms. Adams, I know you’re very familiar with some of the great work that is being done in the health area by people like Dr. Rockwood, for example - on how we can integrate more of that into the lives of our seniors. This is what we absolutely do need to look at for sure.

BARBARA ADAMS: I totally agree. Necessity is the mother of invention.

There is a disparity in the number of people in the Central Zone versus the Western Zone in terms of who has access to a family doctor. There are some different health outcomes that you can look at on CIHI respecting health outcomes for all of the four Central Zones, and they break them up. I’ll just pull one out as an example. This is CIHI results for all regions within the province of Nova Scotia for repeat hospital stays for mental illness. The average for Nova Scotia is 12 per cent; in the Central Zone, it’s 7 per cent; the numbers are not important, but in the Eastern Zone, for example, it’s 17 per cent.

So, my question, I’m going to go back to the Seniors’ Safety Program, I’m just wondering, where in the Western Zone there’s such a large percentage of people without a family doctor, do you see a greater number of people accessing the Seniors’ Safety Program, than say in the Central Zone, where more people have access to a family doctor?

LEO GLAVINE: I am very well aware of the challenges with our doctor complement at the moment. We had eight doctors averaging about 2,500 patients, who retired. We haven’t lost doctors in the sense of leaving. We had eight in 18 months, from Berwick, Kingston, and Middleton, all retire, with probably an average of 2,500 or 2,600 patients. One of the doctors had 4,000 patients. We had classic examples of a doctor with 3,000 patients, his son comes to town, and everybody figures he’s taking over his father’s practice. Hello, he’s going to gradually maybe work up to 1,500 patients. We are in a very challenging time in that regard.

It’s certainly looking like the new $75 million just added on this year to the doctors’ Master Agreement is going to help out. There’s a major effort from community, and there have been a couple of CCH supports there to community groups. Doctors themselves now are very engaged with some recruitment, definitely what’s going on at Dalhousie University with the increase of students and I like the fact that 16 positions are going to be drawn from small-town and rural Nova Scotia. Some of that work is in support.

To get the exact figure to whether or not, if they’re without primary care, are there more calls to our seniors safety officer to find ways of getting the care that they need, we have actually instituted a number of clinic opportunities for those who are unattached patients now, to get both in person and virtual care. There’s a group of doctors in Kentville who are willing to provide that to western area communities.

[8:00 p.m.]

Seniors safety officer numbers that may relate to that, we would have to analyze, and we do have those at the office and will make them available to you.

BARBARA ADAMS: I would appreciate having those numbers. I think it’s always really important when we know how many people are accessing the Seniors’ Safety Program and what the reasons are that they’re going. I know most of the times when they show up at my office or when I get the calls, it’s because they’re now homeless for one reason or another.

One of the questions that I wanted to ask is about the shift to home care versus long-term care. Originally, when the NDP were in power - correct me if I’m wrong - they had identified 11 nursing homes that they were going to replace.

My understanding is that the Liberal government, during their election discussions, had committed to maintaining those, but since then, they haven’t been replaced. I’m wondering what your department does in terms of - I know you hear from the Group of IX, but my understanding is the people who are on the Group of IX, which are all national organizations and I understand the value of that, but there are other associations. Like the Nursing Homes of Nova Scotia Association, all of the colleges: social work, physiotherapy, OT. All those that have tremendous experience with seniors. I’m wondering why they are not part of a group that you would routinely consult with. I know we talked about the Group of IX, and you routinely consult with them.

I’m wondering if there are other groups, such as the Nursing Homes of Nova Scotia Association or the other colleges - physiotherapy and OT as I referenced - that you would also consult with.

LEO GLAVINE: That’s a very good question and point made.

The reality is that the premise from which we operated in terms of home care is based on the fact that every survey you do, 95 to 97 per cent of people want to remain in their home absolutely as long as possible and must do so safely. We have had a 30 per cent increase in home care just over the last four years.

Building age-friendly communities is really the part of the work that we do in the Department of Seniors. We have met with a number of these groups, the Canadian Association for Long Term Care and the union of long-term care employees. We have been meeting with them to see if there’s more as the Department of Seniors that we need to be advancing to the Department of Health and Wellness as part of an ongoing process.

An initiative that we have just announced in an area in Middleton, where we will now have a rural aging centre, will support seniors in the Adult Day Programs. They’re going to work with the CCAs, the LPNs in training who are helping us look at and identify early onset health issues that seniors may have. I believe there are a number of programs and wraparound approaches that I feel will serve seniors very well in keeping them in their home and in their community as long as possible. Our seniors’ homes will become, more and more, places for the advanced aged and those with major chronic conditions.

We’re no different. We Americanized the concept of a nursing home. If we look around the world, in Europe, for example, the average stay is about a year; our average is around three years. It would be wonderful to get to two years. Then we would have another 1,000 beds available on an annual basis.

It’s not all about building more nursing homes. It’s about how we use the homes we have. It’s looking at home care, mobile food bus, the Let’s Get Moving Nova Scotia program to keep seniors healthier longer, and transportation. In fact, I’m seeing how transportation is now dramatically changing social isolation in some of our rural communities. We have groups like Kings Point-to-Point in Kings County, Trans County Transportation Society in Annapolis-Digby, and Le Transport de Clare which are doing specific runs to homes to take seniors to medical appointments, into the service centres of their communities.

I believe that we have to look at more interventions both early on and as our seniors age. I believe aging safely and comfortably with strong well-being in place is the goal of the future. We’re going to see much more advanced delivery for seniors and monitoring of seniors in their homes; you know Google Home is not a fantasy.

I think the emphasis and the direction we have gone is what more governments are taking a look at. When I spoke as the Minister of Seniors to my counterparts from across the country, we have actually had other governments change direction. A couple of provinces that were set to build the next 10 nursing homes shut it down. They knew that they had not done a very good job in terms of supporting seniors in their homes. Looking at the advances that are being made in senior care in the Scandinavian countries, a new model is definitely emerging, and Nova Scotia wants and needs to be a leader in this regard. We’re working on getting better meals to seniors in their homes. Look at the Caregiver Benefit, the first province in Canada to come with a Caregiver Benefit Program, and we’re now seeing a couple of other provinces formulating such a process.

BARBARA ADAMS: Just to clarify the numbers, though, when we say that we’re putting more home care in place, the actual number of people getting home care has gone up slightly from 29,676 in 2017-18 to 31,688, this is from Nova Scotia by the numbers. So, 2,012 more people got home care, but the actual number of hours of home care that were provided went down from 3,098,000 down to 3,063,000. What we actually have over the last three years is the number of hours of home care per person per year in 2016-17 was 107 hours; last year, it was 104 hours; and just this previous year, it was down to 97. Each senior is getting an average of 10 hours less. We’re not providing more home care. A few more people are getting it, but they’re actually getting less hours of care than they did the last year.

It’s important for us to realize that, because when we say we want people to age in place in home, we’re not actually providing more home care per senior. They’re getting 10 hours less a year. When you average that out, that 97 hours per senior per year is equal to 4 days of care. If somebody needs to be in a nursing home, a total of 4 hours of care per person per year is not going to allow them to age in place.

You did mention something about food and how important it was for seniors. I was speaking to a couple of nursing homes where they were, in fact, having to cut back on their food budgets even more than the $5 a day that they were. I remember somebody saying to me, and I don’t know if I have quoted right, good food makes good health, and for good health, you need good food.

I want to reference the fact that we were talking earlier about how we have more seniors who are aging and still working; it’s about 13 per cent right now. We would prefer to see more farms growing more local food that Nova Scotians are eating. We referenced the disability rates for people and being accommodated in the workplace. We know when you own your own farm, you are the employer.

I’m wondering if your department’s aware how many farms in the province of Nova Scotia are being run by people who are of an older age who may be facing physical limitations, versus farms that are being run by the younger generation. And, is there a plan in place to support, I hate to use the word aging farmers, but farmers who are of an older age, in terms of what this government might be doing to support that group?

LEO GLAVINE: I should pass that right over to the Minister of Agriculture. Actually, it’s an area that I’m seeing in one of the primary agricultural areas of the province, and that is in the Annapolis Valley. We’re seeing an extremely strong number of successions now taking place. Farmers in a number of sectors are making a much-improved living. Because that has taken place, sons and daughters are now back on the farm.

As an example, one of our most nutritious, most important fruits that we should have in our diets is apples. When I spoke to our apple growers 17 years ago, I would say the average that I was looking at were probably around 60 years of age. Now when I look out, the number between 25 and 45 is quite astounding. We’re starting to see a strong succession; we’re seeing more farmland in production.

The emphasis on local, and the number, whether it’s our nursing homes, the availability of our farm markets, it’s not that long ago we had 10 farm markets in the province, and now we’re over 50. We’re starting to see local, good, nutritious products available more and more and right at the farm gate. There are a number of farm markets, which means a reduced cost because there’s no transportation involved. I think we’re moving very well to more local nutritious food being produced. We’re seeing more young farmers getting in the business. We’re getting more local food into our institutions. I think all of those bear out very well to a stronger, and in my view better, food security if we can grow our own food. That local food movement is definitely, not so much in the purview of seniors other than that we are probably going to see an increase in our mobile food delivery, which we have found to be very successful. Any time you can take good nutritious food at well below retail and a bit below cost, out to our seniors in particular, I think that’s a wonderful, valuable program. As we analyze its benefits, I think we’ll see some expansion of that program.

[8:15 p.m.]

THE CHAIR: I’m sorry to see that the Minister of Agriculture just left. He’s working on the biggest campaign to buy local and Get Your Hands on Local! He would have loved what you just said.

BARBARA ADAMS: I’m very happy to hear that as well because I think that’s such a critical part, especially for seniors. One of the things is more of a federal thing, but I’m just wondering if the minister is aware of it - I’m sure you’re aware of it - but I’m just wondering what your department might have influence over. The disability tax credit is a federal tax credit for people who have either mobility issues, issues with cognition or vision. It’s something that can bring quite a bit of money to a person if they get the form filled out and submit it. As a physiotherapist, I would fill out the form.

There is an increasing number of reports coming back to me, it started years ago, of physicians saying they don’t have time to fill out that form. Or you don’t have a family doctor, so the person who might fill out the form doesn’t know you well enough to say yes, you’re permanently disabled and there’s no chance of you ever recovering. I know it’s an issue for long-term disability and all that other stuff, but this is a separate thing. This particular form has to be signed by a physician, and I understand that, or a clinical nurse practitioner.

There aren’t enough seniors who know about it because I run into seniors all the time, and especially when I know they have disability issues, I ask them, have you filled out the form? A lot of them have never heard about it. It’s federal money that could be used to help Nova Scotians. I’m just wondering if your department is actively trying to promote that disability tax credit here and or impact physicians in the province who might not be the provider of the care for the person being willing to fill it out. There’s a real barrier there to getting money that is specifically set aside.

LEO GLAVINE: First of all, I would give you this comment. I know the current Minister of Community Services made a very strong attempt to bring this to the forefront because, again, many were not availing themselves, as you have stated, weren’t aware, didn’t know, and didn’t have the knowledge base for this.

I know our directory, the Positive Aging Directory, makes note of this particular program. The suggestion is not lost on me that maybe as the Department of Seniors, we need to do perhaps a little bit more.

Now that our number of nurse practitioners is ramping up, I would hope that nobody would go unserved, that this could in fact be available to them. It is a wonderful program. I know my office over the years, I have an assistant who has made a major effort on this and a lot of it coming about from the fact that she was also an assistant at one time for an MP. Therefore, she makes people aware when finding out, but more and more, I think we need to have the 101 version of that program available so that people can take advantage of it. I thank you for raising the question.

BARBARA ADAMS: I think one of the other solutions that we could be advocating to the federal government, because it is their tax credit, is in the old days, if you wanted to get on the Access-A-Bus, you needed to have a physiotherapist or an occupational therapist fill out the form, or the physician. Eventually, people realized that the physiotherapist or the OT was filling it out and the doctor was just going, oh, that looks good, and signing it. They eventually did away with the need for the physician to have to sign it, because I guarantee nobody wants to take that service unless they absolutely need it, and even then, it’s hard to talk them into it.

For the particular disability tax credit, the two barriers are if you don’t have a family doctor then they’re not willing to fill it out, but it could very easily be changed so that a physiotherapist could fill out the section, like I already do. I can tell you in 100 per cent of the cases, I would fill it all out, say this is what their disability is and what the evidence is, and the physician will just go, oh, that looks good, and just whoosh sign it off. In most cases, they just started sending them to me saying, Barb, fill this out, and we’ll sign it. I’m just thinking there’s an opportunity here, if it’s the OT or whoever it is who can sign it, that we need to take out the requirement for the physician unless there is additional information that perhaps needs to be done.

I have had somebody who has been living in a wheelchair for years, and they don’t have a family doctor, so they can’t get the disability tax credit. I just wanted to suggest that as one of the things to consider as a possible solution.

One of the other things I wanted to ask about is, in the collaborative health centres, we haven’t seen yet a move towards having a social worker, a physiotherapist, or an occupational therapist the way that it was set up originally. When I spoke to the Minister of Health and Wellness, I understand that the priority was getting the clinical nurse practitioners in there and getting everybody attached. I understand that piece. There’s a lot of time when social workers or physiotherapists, either in emergency or in a collaborative health centre could take the burden off of the family doctors who aren’t going to take that 4,000-patient load on and are only taking 1,500. I’m just wondering if your department is advocating to the Minister of Health and Wellness to get those wraparound services in place so that it does lighten the load of the physicians or clinical nurse practitioners in those facilities.

LEO GLAVINE: It’s not an area that we have highlighted in our department other than when we would be with other departmental people for a discussion about a particular issue. I don’t think the priority has changed a great deal from doctors, nurse practitioners, and family practice nurses as the first people to move into our collaborative care centres. There are a few that have a social worker. Generally, it’s on a part-time basis. They will have identified individuals or a family that can then reach out to support seniors.

It’s interesting, in conversations with doctors, how quickly they will convey the fact that, oh my gosh, a social worker could have really lightened my load today. I had four cases that I could have passed over to sort out those personal problems that some people thought were a doctor problem. I think the greater number of professional people who we put into our collaborative centres and any community care centre. That I think is truly a benefit. Seniors, who often have more challenges in navigating the health care system, have multiple issues to deal with. It’s very seldom that those who are the super-seniors or the very elderly seniors, they usually don’t have one issue to deal with, they have multiple issues, and they certainly involve that whole social worker world to help sort out. It’s a good point made.

I must say, I have been the beneficiary of working across departments and Seniors. As the deputy minister now looks at another version of SHIFT, he’s reaching out to all the departments to have input on how we can deliver a stronger seniors program in the province.

BARBARA ADAMS: You just referenced it, so I’m going to ask you about it. One of the biggest complaints I always heard as a health professional, and I still hear it probably even more now as an MLA, is when patients go to see their family doctor, clinical nurse practitioner, and it’s the one issue, one visit rule. The doctors will literally say you can only talk to me about one issue, and I know it’s because they can only bill for one issue. For most of us who have an elderly parent, it’s the child who leaves work to go pick up the parent and take them there, which is often a very big ordeal for them because they have mobility issues. Then to get all the way over to wherever you’re going in the middle of a storm to be told, you can either talk about your knee or your heart, but you can’t talk about both.

I’m just wondering, because we haven’t really talked about it in the Legislature, whether your department has suggested or promoted that there may be a change in the billing structure for seniors who are visiting physicians in order to be able to talk about more than one issue.

LEO GLAVINE: That’s certainly an excellent point that I kind of led the member into, I guess. It is my understanding that there is now a separate fee for seniors and the complex health issues that they have, those who will present with the two or three chronic issues that they have. Unfortunately, in a couple of parts of our province, we have as high as 8 per cent of the population with up to five chronic diseases, so, because of that complexity now, there is a separate fee structure. Perhaps, if you have an opportunity to go back and ask the Minister of Health and Wellness what in fact that new arrangement is that is there.

BARBARA ADAMS: One of the things that I know, one of Janice Keefe’s biggest research studies was on what makes for happiness in long-term care. The top three things were: the staff, obviously, the happier they are, the better the quality of care, and we know that they’re stressed right now; what the facility looks like; and what the quality of food is. Those were the top three things.

One of the other things that gets mentioned is the loneliness. I know we have all talked about the social determinants of health. In the United Kingdom, they have a Minister of Loneliness to combat for those with chronic disease, and it has been shown to actually reduce the illness rate and the death rate in seniors. I’m wondering if you’re aware of their program and if you have had a look at it to see if there’s any way to integrate that kind of model into the Department of Seniors or to advocate for that perhaps around other departments.

[8:30 p.m.]

LEO GLAVINE: There has been the appointment in the U.K. of a minister of social isolation or loneliness specifically. This has now emerged as well in our Department of Seniors as a priority area. We feel that probably a multi-pronged approach here is going to be the best way of dealing with it. The Department of Seniors will be responsible for this.

As the member well knows, sometimes you may have a nursing home of 100 or 150, or some 200 people. The statistic that most amazed me as Minister of Health and Wellness was the unbelievably low percentage of family members who visit a nursing home. When I heard about it, and my own personal values - core value - it really quite shocked me. This is why now there are school programs, children visiting nursing homes to make a difference.

In terms of our communities, all you have to do is go into any kind of seniors’ gathering and look at the number of single seniors, especially women, who are in our congregations of people - I don’t just mean a church congregation here, but any time seniors are together - the number is really quite astounding.

In rural Nova Scotia one of the big challenges is transportation. When I went to Treasury Board as minister, every member of Treasury Board was empathetic to putting several millions of dollars into community transportation. We have made a huge gain in that area to now see in, pretty well all of our counties, growing routes, fixed routes being put in place. It’s one of the ways in which seniors will get into their communities to socialize and to look after the services that they need.

Designing age-friendly communities, and a concept that we supported first in Mahone Bay, was a group that was given a little financial incentive to set up a structure to check in on very elderly seniors living alone, just to see how they were doing and see what their needs were. This has actually grown to a few other communities. The design is for people to live close in contact with one another. I think the rural aging centre that has just been announced and that will gradually move out to other areas will be a great way of having the voice of seniors be heard first-hand as to what their needs are.

It is definitely a disease of the 21^st century for seniors. The more we can do to meet the challenge and to combat it will lead to healthier seniors, more stable mental health, stronger well-being and again it’s one that we are now working to be proactive on. We certainly hope to use the NS GovLab this year, especially as we reach out to rural communities.

One of the areas that is the topic of Ministers of Seniors across the country and the federal minister, is to have a national way of scaling up some of the programs that will reduce social isolation.

I was amazed at the number of seniors who said they actually picked up and learned some digital skills - their iPad can put them in touch with a family member on a much more regular basis living in another part of the country - and how that communication is vitally important to them in terms of feeling isolated. I mean person-to-person contact, as we know, is the ideal and the best. Again, there are some great organizations, especially, getting age-friendly grants that are getting people in communities together. Maybe that’s something we should post more, the kind of age-friendly grants that are available to be supportive.

BARBARA ADAMS: I think I just have time for one or two more questions.

THE CHAIR: Six more minutes.

BARBARA ADAMS: Maybe one question. Something that seems a little bizarre for me is that long-term care facilities collect money from their residents for every single day that they’re there, but for some reason, the Department of Health and Wellness only gives back to the long-term care facility every day but February 29^th. It happens once every four years, and apparently, it has been going on for a long time. When you multiply out how much each resident pays per day times 7,800 residents, it’s a lot of money that doesn’t come back for that one particular day. I know that the Nursing Homes of Nova Scotia Association brought it to Treasury Board’s attention again, because this is the year for it. They were told, no, that’s the way it is.

I know one facility told me that that’s a loss of $30,000 for their facility. I’m just thinking as the Department of Seniors, have you advocated for that disparity? I don’t know why you would collect the money and then not give it back to the nursing home to pay for the care that’s needed. I’m just wondering if your department had any discussions about that.

LEO GLAVINE: Certainly, an issue, not to throw it at the feet of the Minister of Health and Wellness, but it certainly more directly would be there. But in terms of advocacy, I have been Minister of Seniors for this leap year and one before, but this is really the first time that actually I have heard a little bit in the media, as well as you, Ms. Adams, raising it in the Legislature. It really was not there for us to take a concerted look at. I think now, the barometer on this one has risen just a little bit to perhaps give it more attention. Especially in some nursing homes, it is a considerable dollar that would affect them.

BARBARA ADAMS: For my final question, several of the nursing home administrators mentioned that because of the new regulations around dealing with those who have pressure ulcers, they are required to give them a high protein diet and a special diet, which is more expensive than what you’re normally given in a long-term care facility. They’re having to cut budgets in other ways in order to fund this increased requirement for the food budget for those who have pressure ulcers.

I’m just wondering, when we were talking about food earlier, whether your department has discussions with the Department of Health and Wellness and the Department of Agriculture in terms of ensuring that you’re buying more local food for the hospitals and whether the contracts are specifically set up to give preference to buying from local suppliers (a) so that the food’s fresher, and (b) so that we can get the best price for that.

I’m just wondering if that has been an issue that your department has had discussions with Department of Agriculture and the Department of Health and Wellness.

LEO GLAVINE: That’s certainly a good point, especially as we embark on a more aggressive Buy Local campaign. It was interesting that a number of nursing homes - I don’t mean just those in Colchester and Kings County, where you have the greatest concentration of farms that would definitely procure locally - one of the homes here in the city, Saint Vincent’s Nursing Home, had reached 40 per cent of procuring and securing local produce. We’re seeing in more and more of our institutions the opportunity to buy local and to get meats, in particular, that are raised and produced here in the province.

One of the perhaps unfortunate elements here is that we can’t force it because of trade agreements that currently exist in the country. This is always a confounding piece when we have trade barriers and national regulatory processes that actually limit some of the good things you can do in your province.

We are seeing that consciousness, and I’m counting on the Minister of Agriculture to push our institutions much further in producing local product for sure.

THE CHAIR: Order. The time has lapsed for the PC Party. We’ll move on to the NDP. Ms. Chender, you have 14 minutes.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Just a few more questions. I raised earlier the issue around Employment Support and Income Assistance and CPP, but there’s another issue around CPP. I recognize this is interjurisdictional but I’m curious to know if you have had conversations on it.

We know that low-income tenants, especially those on income assistance but others as well, sometimes use the services of a trustee. Some organizations are empowered as trustees, so they’ll receive and control the income and pay the rent and then give the remainder to the client. Our understanding is that folks who receive CPP and in particular I’m talking about the folks I referenced earlier who are made to apply for it early, CPP won’t work with a trustee. I think maybe there’s an exemption for folks who medically can’t manage their own affairs, but their guidelines around trusteeship are much tighter than they are at the provincial level. As you can imagine, this can have a pretty deleterious effect on the lives of seniors and, in some cases, can really impact their housing.

I’m wondering if you are aware of this and if there has been any opportunity to have a conversation with federal colleagues on this issue.

[8:45 p.m.]

LEO GLAVINE: It is my understanding that there has been some modernization of the trustee law. However, if you have a specific example, I would really like to engage our department and then see what we could advance towards federal representatives to perhaps either gain more clarity or see what the obstacles are there. Again, that’s a wonderfully valid initiative to look at and explore and see how there can be benefits gained for a senior.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I appreciate that answer. The specific example came from a colleague, so I’ll take it back and see if they could approach you on that. In general, I think it would be great to understand the conversations happening. I think prior to the last federal election, still the same government, a constituent of mine asked a question of the federal government when they came on a listening tour, or something like this, about CPP. They were saying at that time that they’re encouraging people to apply later. They want people to apply for CPP at 70, not at 65. This issue was raised, that I raised earlier, that no, in fact, here in Nova Scotia, people are being encouraged to apply earlier in certain circumstances. They seemed unaware of that at the time. I think in general it would be great to understand what the conversation is that’s happening interprovincially on that issue.

I want to move now to the dementia strategy. We know that the dementia strategy came out in 2014, I think. One recommendation was to train health care providers in diagnosis. I’m wondering if you have any update on how that has been actioned.

LEO GLAVINE: I have your question well in scope, but the digital world is wonderful, so I’ll answer one of your earlier questions. In the first year of operating the NS GovLab, we had a Communications Nova Scotia intern, and that person was paid. Hopefully that’s a practice that is strong in our department.

The dementia strategy advocated for development of earlier, better, stronger diagnosis. A tool kit was developed, and it’s out in a few areas being piloted and assessed. Interestingly enough, this was one of the recent topics in the context of the Group of IX.

As you know, finally, Canada was the last of the G8 countries to advocate and develop a dementia strategy. In fact, I remember going to Ottawa and speaking about this at a group of G8 representatives dealing with senior issues and advocating that Canada move quicker to have a dementia strategy. So, we have the federal strategy. We know there’s one province that has developed a strong tool kit to assist in this diagnosis. I think both the Department of Seniors and the Department of Health and Wellness are probably going to move much quicker towards a realization this. There are 17,000 Nova Scotians with dementia and Alzheimer’s issues, and the huge cohort that we have in front of us is roughly 55 or 56 to 74, and we have to make sure that our commitment is strong here and we get this executed.

THE CHAIR: You have exactly seven minutes, and we will give a minute at the end for the minister to finish.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’ll just ask another question, and if the minister has closing remarks, that’s also fine.

Sticking on the dementia strategy, I know another recommendation was around public education around risk factors. You talk about a whole other cohort coming, so that also I think included preventive factors. I’m wondering, has that campaign happened? Have the materials happened? If so, has there been an evaluation because I think that strategy also calls for constant evaluation.

LEO GLAVINE: As I moved into the senior years, it’s a question that I ponder personally: How ready are we to deal with this big cohort that is coming at us?

What we have done is we have given I think a reasonable amount of money to the Alzheimer Society Nova Scotia to really work on education. They have done some wonderful projects in communities so that learnings could be gained for them to scale up across the province.

On the prevention side, three of the areas in our SHIFT document are extremely valuable, I believe, in support of preventive work, we are advocating for seniors to remain engaged in the life of their community, to continue to volunteer and also, to become much more active than perhaps seniors traditionally have been. I think we’re doing, through SHIFT, some very good work.

I know as minister, the more that I look at research, one of the areas that I advocate strongly is having seniors of all ages having some movement in their lives. Over the last number of years, a good number of our nursing homes now have a person dedicated to some activity during the day. Even people in a wheelchair are able to do some movement. All the research that I’m taking a look at, if there’s any silver bullet out there, it truly is having a strong vascular system that is supported by an active lifestyle.

I think we have learned a lot from Scandinavian countries, which believe from cradle to the latter years of life, you have some daily physical activity. It can be almost anything that they engaged in, but strong socialization is also part of that preventive measure where the mind is active and engaged.

I think we really do need to embark on finally getting a national strategy that gets some very strong campaigns out there for seniors in Canada, because at the same time when we do this, I believe we can reduce some of the inherent medical costs that seniors are giving us. We actually moved very strongly in the opposite direction of many provinces. They’re looking at accommodating and still talking about the burden of illness with seniors. We have moved in the other direction and see seniors and their experience; what they’re able to give to our province is a much stronger presence.

I just want to end off by saying that our department, under the leadership of Simon and Faizal, is being very proactive in advancing the pillars of SHIFT into our community. I think we’re seeing some successes, but we have a long way to go. I think we’re garnering the strengths of many people in our community who want a strong well-being for our seniors.

THE CHAIR: Shall Resolution E35 stand?

Resolution E35 stands.

Thank you, everyone.

The meeting is adjourned.

[The subcommittee adjourned at 8:56 p.m.]