HALIFAX, MONDAY, APRIL 16, 2012

 

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE ON SUPPLY

 

4:24 P.M.

 

CHAIRMAN

Mr. Clarrie MacKinnon

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will resume the estimates of the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. When we finished on Friday, Mr. Bain had taken 33 minutes so the Progressive Conservative caucus has 27 minutes remaining.

 

The honourable member for Victoria-The Lakes.

 

MR. KEITH BAIN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I think I'm just going to pick up where I left off on Friday, Mr. Minister, and I'm going to start asking questions about the communities Nova Scotia program. I'm just wondering if you could explain it a little bit more in detail. For example, what do you expect the turnaround time to be on applications once they're filled out and if you could answer why your government decided to transfer this program from Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations?

 

HON. DAVID WILSON: Thank you for that question. With the announcement last year of the creation of the new department, or the restructuring of Communities, Culture and Heritage, Communities is really the focal point of the department trying to assist communities, organizations, and individuals who live within our communities. We wanted an avenue for them to ensure that we could meet their needs in their respective communities. So the grant you were talking about, or the original grant, I think, was called the communities grant, which was under Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations.

 

Of course, we recognize that that was an important grant but it didn't meet the needs of all of the requests that we saw come through Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations in the previous years. So we understood that a lot of organizations just kind of fall between the cracks when it comes to being able to access support from the provincial government through a fund or a program. So we decided to create the Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Program in the hopes that we could address some of those shortfalls that so many organizations have.

 

191

 

I think I've mentioned to you in the past, one of the things that was quite frustrating over the last year is recognizing how important some of these community centres, community museums, whatever you have in communities, some of the frustrations of not being able to assist them if they needed a roof repair or if they were trying to do improvements within their hall, a community hall for example, redoing the kitchen or washrooms, or making it more accessible. So we realized that the former program was an important one and we wanted to build on that. That's why we shifted over and I think it's appropriate to have it under our new department. We were able to add funds to that, so the total fund is now $2.3 million; I believe the former community grants under Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations were $300,000. So it's a significant increase in hopes to really provide some support for those not-for-profit organizations in our communities.

 

MR. BAIN: Thank you for that. The $2.3 million, will that money be targeted at regions across Nova Scotia? For example, can we expect Halifax or HRM, based on their population, to see a large percentage or will it be that regardless of the region, the money will go to those most in need?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, no question. I hope all communities and community groups or not-for-profit groups can gain access to it. That's my hope. As I think I said maybe on Friday in one of my answers, it's a $2.3 million fund and, of course, in the application an organization can request up to $50,000, but if you split that $50,000 project into the $2.3 million, there wouldn't be that many projects. So I'm hoping that organizations and MLAs will realize that and recognize that there are limited funds there and that you encourage groups to come with maybe potentially smaller grants - $3,000, $4,000, or $5,000 grants - to improve their community centre, for example, or outdoor space and, no question, I want to ensure that we target right across the province those groups that need funding, especially in rural communities.

 

No question, it's hard for every organization to raise funds and fundraise, but I know it's even harder sometimes for some of those small rural communities and rural organizations to be able to fundraise to do a project that they want to fulfill.

 

MR. BAIN: Development programs under Culture and Heritage will increase by more than $2 million this year. I'm just wondering if you can explain what that increase will be and where it will go.

 

MR. WILSON: With the restructuring of the department we have Culture and Heritage Development, and under that we have Community Development programs and the executive director for that. We moved CMAP, the Community Museum Assistance Program under that heading, so that is the reason for the increase that you noticed on the line item for the budget. It was in another area previous to the restructuring of the new department.

 

MR. BAIN: Last year the executive director's budget under Archives, Museums and Libraries came in $188,000 over budget, and it's forecasted to increase by $600,000 this year. I was wondering if you could explain that for us.

 

MR. WILSON: One of the things that we were doing with the restructuring is to move in grants. So under that division we transferred the museum grants of $250,000 to this new division and also the Black Loyalist Heritage Centre operational grant, we provide $250,000 for that. So those moved over and then some moved out, so there is a change in the numbers. So that was another $250,000 that we moved into this division.

 

MR. BAIN: At the same time though, the Nova Scotia Museum budget is being trimmed by $3.1 million. So I guess I'm wondering what changes are being contemplated as far as it relates to museums.

 

MR. WILSON: With the restructure, what we did, those two grants that I just mentioned, we removed from that former program and also, I think I noted to you on Friday that we transferred the building maintenance over to TIR. So under TIR now they'll see an increase for maintenance for the museums. What we've tried to do is shift where it would be more appropriate to actually put into the budget who does the work and who is responsible for it. With those three different changes, that's where you'll note the difference in the line item from last year to this year.

 

MR. BAIN: Would the biggest part of that be the transfer of buildings to TIR? How much would that mean dollar-wise?

 

MR. WILSON: The biggest part was actually the grants transferred to Culture and Heritage Development, which is $1.5 million, so that would be the largest portion of that difference - $1.5 million.

 

MR. BAIN: In 2010-11 a total of 549,001 individuals visited Nova Scotia museums, and that was better than what was forecast. I think the forecast was close to around 528,000. I was just wondering if the minister could explain what his opinion would be why those numbers increased so greatly, and do you expect an even greater increase in the 549,000 this year?

 

MR. WILSON: I think it's because of the great job staff has been doing around the province in some of our attractions. We've had some amazing events that have come into some of our museums; one of the more recent ones was T. Rex Sue who came to our museum here in Halifax. An amazing number of visitors came through the doors to look at T. Rex Sue, which surpassed our expectations with visitation.

 

I think we're seeing a change and the public really trying to make sure they get out and visit Nova Scotia and visit what we have to offer. I think our staff has been working extremely hard to try to promote what we can offer by ensuring that we have up-to-date and new exhibits for schools, for example, to come to visit, and really ensure that those organizations that do provide - I mentioned school trips - that they choose one of our provincial sites so that we can see that increase and continue to see that in the future.

 

I'm optimistic that this year, hopefully with a great summer - we've had not too bad of a winter - that we'll see more and more people decide to travel and stay within our province. Outside visitors are extremely important to those numbers, but so are Nova Scotians. The more we can get Nova Scotians to travel within Nova Scotia and visit what we have to offer, I think we'll continue to see those numbers increase. We hope that trend will continue to happen.

 

MR. BAIN: Some of these museums, it's also a revenue generator for them as well. But there are others that I guess are free of charge and rely on donations, they'll have a donation box there. So revenues that are raised by museums, does that in any way affect their grant they might receive from your department?

 

MR. WILSON: No, not at all. We're encouraging organizations to have a good business plan, especially our small museums. We are currently reviewing the CMAP program so we can make sure it's meeting the needs of the museums that want to be and are in the program now, and also meeting the needs of Nova Scotians, ensuring the money we are giving them, which comes from the taxpayers, is used in the most appropriate manner.

 

This year we've had a number of different exhibits, as I mentioned earlier: T. Rex Sue; we currently have Our Amazing World at the museum here in Halifax; and Hello Sailor! was a very popular exhibit that we had on the waterfront, which I think helped increase those numbers. We hope museums recognize that they need to play a role in ensuring they can try to sustain themselves as much as they can. That's why we're going to review CMAP so that if we need to make changes to it, to modernize it, to make sure that we're meeting those needs, we will do that. I look forward to that review being finalized and any recommendations that will come out of that.

 

MR. BAIN: Previously, the Department of Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations appeared in estimates before you did. It was learned that Service Nova Scotia paid out $895,000 in charges to the CIBC. The minister described that as service and credit card charges. So could you identify for me what the banking charges were for the department in the past fiscal year and exactly how many credit cards belong to the department?

 

MR. WILSON: The cards that we have for Communities, Culture and Heritage total 78 travel credit cards; we have 56 purchase credit cards; and we have three fleet cards.

 

MR. BAIN: What about the cost - would you have a running figure for the total cost for all those cards?

 

MR. WILSON: We actually don't have that with us right now. We'll work on that and I'll get that back to the member.

 

MR. BAIN: Thank you very much for that. Mr. Chairman, if I might, I'm going to turn the rest of my time over to the honourable member for Inverness.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Inverness.

 

MR. ALLAN MACMASTER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My first question - I had written a letter to your office some time ago and it is budget related. I know you know there are a lot of community museums around the province and there's also interest on the part of local communities to try to maintain archival items. There are some programs out there, there isn't a significant amount of money, and I know that's just the way it has been over the years. I also know - I suppose it doesn't make sense to be trying to keep everything either. Things have to have some significance, and I know that's why we have a provincial archives for things that are provincially significant.

 

However, the question in my letter that I might ask here today - and I don't know if we can put it in terms of the context of the budget this year - would the province consider allocating some money for - maybe not community archives but regional archives, so something that may not be of provincial significance but something that may have significance from a regional perspective that's deemed so by a local board? I know there would have to be some kind of a governance structure around it to make sure communities felt that their interests were represented. Is that something that your department has given some consideration in developing this budget?

 

MR. WILSON: I think provincial archives are so important. As you've said, museums are great to have and over time you tend to lose some of those artifacts, so ensuring that we have robust archives in the province for the future is extremely important.

 

We have this year, or just recently, appointed a provincial archivist. We are glad to have that filled; it had been a vacancy for quite some time so we're - I think that was announced maybe a month ago. So we're working now to, in the future, see where we need to ensure we're meeting all the needs of public archives throughout the province. I don't specifically see us targeting certain areas and just having specific programs there, but if there's a suggestion or something that we need to work on to ensure we cover that under our provincial archives, we're more than willing to look at it.

 

Archivists are very passionate about their job and what they do and how important it is to our province, and I think if they know of an area or a certain organization or something that they could be working on or do something a little bit better, they would be more than open to respond to that.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I'll interject just for a second. I usually give a 10-minute notice on time left and there's a little less than 10 minutes remaining, Mr. MacMaster, in the time for the Progressive Conservative caucus.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Thank you. I know that Canada's 150^th birthday is coming up in 2017. Has the department considered going to the federal government to see if they might put some money together for a budget so that communities can celebrate Canada's 150^th birthday? From an historical perspective, if the money is received sometime in advance of 2017, there may be something to show their communities, because I think as much as things of national historic significance are important, everybody appreciates their own local history. They are the kinds of histories that I think have a lot of interest for people when they connect with their roots. We can all go to museums in different parts of the country that showcase things of national significance but if we're going to do something here at home, something locally, I think there would be great benefit in helping communities to preserve their history.

 

I guess my question is, in advance of 2017, have you considered approaching the federal government about maybe partnering with some funds to support something like a regional archives? There could be all kinds of other initiatives, too, but that is one idea. Have you considered that?

 

MR. WILSON: Just before I answer that one, going back to your last question around the archives, we do have a program that has $50,000 in it to work with community archives, and that work is done with the Council of Nova Scotia Archives and they help to distribute that. We also give a grant to the Council of Nova Scotia Archives so there is a small program. If you are aware of that we can maybe make that connection of a group in your area.

 

When it comes to the 150^th Anniversary in a couple of years, last year - I think it was in August - the federal-provincial-territorial ministers met in Whitehorse and we talked on a number of different issues and upcoming events and special occasions. A lot of emphasis was placed on the War of 1812 and then the province being able to assist organizations, but the federal government came out with a program and I know many organizations here in Nova Scotia have been gaining access to that program.

 

We talked about the 150^th Anniversary and we're meeting again in September of this year, in Winnipeg I believe it is, and that will be on the agenda. We'll encourage the federal government to make sure that they're at the table, I think it's most appropriate that they be kind of the lead on that celebration, just like the War of 1812, and hopefully Nova Scotia can take advantage of that and we'll work to make sure that we put on a good celebration here and recognize our contribution as a province to that anniversary.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I guess, for today's purposes, there is nothing that you're looking at specifically dollar-wise in the provincial budget to encourage the federal government to move in that direction at this point?

 

MR. WILSON: Not in this current budget. We'll have to look at that in next year's budget to see if that's something that we'll look at. We always try to look forward on what events are happening and coming to the province or what anniversaries. Of course, just this past weekend we had the opportunity to commemorate the 100^th Anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic which was, I think, well done for our province in how we portrayed our connection to the sinking of the Titanic. There were events throughout the province, specifically here in Halifax at the Grand Parade. There were thousands of people who came out on Saturday evening for that and then, of course, on Sunday at the cemetery in Fairview where 121 victims, I believe, of the Titanic are buried.

 

The federal government was there on Sunday at the ceremony and I think they recognize that Nova Scotia can put on great events and really do a great job at reflecting on our connection to history, or to a certain event. As I said, there's nothing in this year's budget, but we'll continue to look forward to possibilities in the future and hopefully work with our federal counterparts to ensure that there's an appropriate level of funds designated for that event. I would expect Nova Scotia will be there, too, to help organizations.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I know that you had mentioned that there are a couple of programs. I know there is the Provincial Archival Development Program, which I think was the one you mentioned, and it certainly has been helpful. I think what some groups are finding is that while they certainly appreciate the funding, there's not a significant amount of funding and I think in a lot of cases they are just volunteer groups. A lot of times their archive space is full and I know you can't keep everything, but sometimes these things are - once you lose them they're gone forever.

 

I guess I'd just like to make the point for the record that in your future discussions with the federal government, if there's new money - and likely it's going to come from the federal government, especially if it's for Canada's birthday - if you would keep that in mind - like having maybe a pot of money for a regional archives and thereby things that may not be of provincial significance but are still important to communities, that way you're not out into every community but you have something set up for them.

 

I think I might have time for one more.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, you have about two minutes remaining.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I'll just ask one quick last question. That's just the use of technology when I think about a lot of these archived items. Do you do any work to help put it on-line? I know you do it certainly for your own department but I guess I'm thinking more so in the communities where they have archives, because if the information is up on the Internet, people get to see things and I guess there would be a cost for communities to put it up on the Internet. I'm just wondering if there's any support from your department to do that.

 

MR. WILSON: No question, I think we're leaders when it comes to putting stuff on-line, especially through archives. We're more than willing to work with organizations to put links towards the sites that we have and that we run as a province. One of the things that we were really looking at, last year when we brought out our five-point plan, was to ensure Web design and a Web presence for artists, for example, so that if you have an up-and-coming artist who is trying to get recognized or trying to get the exposure they need, then the provincial government can be an avenue for them to maybe upload some of their work, for example. So that's one thing we're working on now to give to artists in the province, for example, is an opportunity to have some exposure.

 

Of course, the World Wide Web is just an amazing opportunity for individuals, and it doesn't matter where you're from. I think you can be from the smallest community in Nova Scotia and still have presence and still have an impact on the province, and especially a creative economy.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: That concludes the time for the Progressive Conservative caucus. We will now turn an hour over to the Liberal caucus.

 

The honourable member for Richmond. (Interruption)

 

HON. MICHEL SAMSON: Mr. Chairman, it's my understanding that Mr. MacMaster might have a few more questions. So we would allow him to put those questions and you can refer back to us once he has finished.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Certainly there is another hour available for the Progressive Conservative caucus after the Liberal caucus if you so wish, but is there general agreement that you continue now and certainly take as much of the Liberal time as you want to? Mr. MacMaster.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I would be happy to do that.

 

My next question, moving away from archives, I have some questions on gaming, which I guess you would be prepared to answer today as well. I do know that the Casino Nova Scotia contract is coming due, I believe - is that this coming year?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, the first term is coming due in 2015 so the operator has the opportunity at that time to ask for an approval for another 10-year term. So 2015 is when that opportunity happens here in the province concerning that contract.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I guess it was a significant contract, it was a 20-year contract before, so it kind of locked the province in for a significant period of time. Have you considered other options other than just continuing on with sort of what we've seen as far as a casino contract?

 

MR. WILSON: The closer we get to that time we'll look at all options, but no question, I think Nova Scotians have been well served by Great Canadian Gaming up to now. I've met just recently with the CEO, myself and the Premier, probably a couple of weeks ago, and he's a new CEO and one of the key things he wants to ensure happens is that he meets and has that ability to talk to the people they work for. So it was good to see that. So we're continuing to work with them. I think they've shown that they're capable of running the casinos and we're quite confident that they'll continue to do that, but no question, we would have to ensure that we evaluate the 10 years hence after 2015 a little closer to that time.

 

MR. MACMASTER: It's certainly an important source of revenue for the province. I guess the question I wanted to ask was - and I don't suppose you'll give too many details yet today - but the contract itself, is that available for public consumption?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, it's available publicly. There are some clauses that have some sensitive material or information on it so there would be some that we wouldn't be able to show. But it is available.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Would that include the formula for revenue sharing?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, it would.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Would it be possible for me to get a copy of that?

 

MR. WILSON: Definitely, yes, we'll get a copy to the member. I don't have it with me right now but we'll get it for you.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Okay. I do have a few other questions here - 17 per cent of the Gaming Corporation's profits of $141.6 million came from lottery terminals and casinos. That works out to about $25 million. Could you provide a breakdown of where this money is given back to the province? Wouldn't that money just come into general revenues and be disbursed as part of regular departmental budgets?

 

MR. WILSON: All the profits that are generated go into general revenue. No question, we have several programs that we support through gaming revenue: one is the Support 4 Sport, which goes to amateur sport here in Nova Scotia; and another portion of that goes - there's a formula that allows for a portion of the revenue to go to gaming research, so that continues on. That just fluctuates on whatever the total revenue for the year is. The profit that comes back to the province goes into the Department of Finance, into general revenue.

 

MR. MACMASTER: We've seen a lot of volatility in the economy, especially in 2008 and onward. What have we seen as far as habits of the gaming public? The revenues seem to be pretty stable, but I'd like to ask if you have any comments on that.

 

MR. WILSON: Whenever you see a recession or change in pattern of spending from Nova Scotians, it's going to affect the revenue that comes in, and gaming is also in the mix.

 

Over the years we've seen a fluctuation in revenue from gaming, but for the most part it has been pretty constant the last 10 years or so. If you look at the casino revenue, for example, it roughly runs from $71 million down to $61 million. It's a fluctuation of about $10 million but it's nothing that we wouldn't expect, especially in the last few years you would expect revenue to drop a little bit when people may have been losing their jobs or if a recession has hit.

 

I think what we're trying to do, and what our partners like the organizations that run our two casinos are trying to do, is ensure that they provide the safest possible entertainment kind of value to Nova Scotians so that you can generate that revenue. As we said, the revenue for gaming goes into general funds of the province which go to, of course, education and health care and all these services that the Nova Scotia Government provides to Nova Scotians.

 

We are always mindful of the trends, but I think we're at a point where it has been somewhat stable over the last number of years. I think our partners will continue to try to maintain the most appropriate service they can provide in gaming in the province.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I saw a commercial and I think it's the Atlantic Lottery Corporation. They've been advertising about the value that they're bringing, much as what you've just said, and there's no question the revenues are very helpful to the province. What are your thoughts on them advertising? Is it really their place to be advocating for themselves or is that really something that should be in the hands of government?

 

MR. WILSON: I think the relationship that we have with the ALC is an important one. We recognize as one of the owners from the four Atlantic regions of ALC that it was important to ensure that Nova Scotians, for example - but all Atlantic Canadians - know what ALC is, where the revenues go. One of the major things that they're trying to get out to those in our provinces is that the revenue goes back to the province and it goes into providing services for them and for the provinces. I think they do have a role in ensuring that the public is aware of where the revenue goes and what it's used for. I think they've done it in an appropriate manner and I think Nova Scotians are more aware now, since that campaign started, in recognizing where those funds go and who benefits from the revenues.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Do we have any idea how much of our provincial portion of the costs of that advertising have been over the past year?

 

MR. WILSON: What happens is - because of the arrangements of the provinces - any expenses incurred by ALC are divided up within the province. Nova Scotia's portion for ALC for marketing and that is usually around $3 million a year of what we're required to bring to the table. The other provinces are the same. P.E.I. would be a little less just because of the sheer difference in the population and the revenue that comes from the provinces. Nova Scotia does bring the largest portion of the revenue to ALC and it's reflected in the return that we get out of ALC's profit.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I just have one last question. I know the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation has some measures in place - like you've been mentioning - that are important to help people who may become problem gamblers. I can see the expenditure coming out of that budget, but is it appropriate for the corporation to be doing those activities or are they moving some of that activity off to a third party who would not have any potential conflicts of interests? I'm sure there's nobody at the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation who would intentionally be doing programs that wouldn't be successful because they wouldn't want to lose the revenue. I don't want to insinuate that because I know that's not the case, but I think that sometimes optics are important for people - for the public - and that's why I ask the question.

 

MR. WILSON: That's why, no question, you want to make sure, as the department that's overseeing the revenue side of gaming, that we have a distinction and that's why we have two parts of the Gaming Control Act. The Department of Health and Wellness are actually designated as the ones to look at the addiction services side of the gaming issue, if there are issues with addiction. That's why in the agreements there's a formula that depending on if the revenue goes up, there will be more money going to research, more money going to responsible gaming; if the revenue drops, it slides the same way.

 

No question, the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation takes seriously trying to minimize the impact that gaming has or potential negative impact that gaming has. That's why last year, during the release of our Gaming Strategy, we looked at, evaluated, and supported the use of My-Play System, which is now active on all the machines. This system is a world first. I think you're well aware of the company in Cape Breton that actually created this system. We're very excited and extremely proud to have a Cape Breton company, a Nova Scotia company, be a world first on this Informed Player Choice System that we have with the My-Play System.

 

I think it's a role for everybody who's involved in gaming to ensure that they kind of go forward with policies and changes with ensuring that you look through the lens of responsible gaming and ensuring that you try to minimize the impact that gaming might have on someone who might have a negative result of their actions in the province, especially around gaming.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Maybe one last one just to clarify?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure, Mr. MacMaster.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I guess my question was more should the Gaming Corporation itself be making decisions about how it spends the money to support people who might become victims of problem gaming, or should it be a third party? I know that in government the regulatory, I know they're kept separate, separate ministers, I'm aware of that, but could you comment on that?

 

MR. WILSON: That's why Health and Wellness actually runs that. The Gaming Corporation does some work in that area but I think it's their duty to do that. Their task is to oversee our interest in ALC to make sure that, you know, what we have here in Nova Scotia is the most appropriate and that Nova Scotians' interests are at the forefront. But Health and Wellness definitely runs that side of the equation when it comes to gaming, and that's why we've purposely separated that, just like the difference in the two Acts; and we have Alcohol and Gaming which oversees the regulation part of it. We tend to be kind of the day-to-day operations of gaming in the province.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, that's all my questions.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I understand you will be back with more questions at a later time?

 

MR. MACMASTER: No, actually I've exhausted all the questions.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Will the Progressive Conservative caucus be back with questions?

 

MR. MACMASTER: No.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you very much. We will now turn it over to the Liberal caucus.

 

The honourable member for Richmond.

 

HON. MICHEL SAMSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and we certainly thank the minister and his staff for the answers they've provided today and the information they've provided, but with that, I would move that the minister be invited to give his closing remarks and that the committee now move on to our next department, which I believe is the Department of Energy.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I understand that the NDP caucus has a number of questions. There is a motion that the statement be read.

 

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

 

MR. SAMSON: There's only one Nay.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I understand there would be four and perhaps five Nays but they're not very vocal.

 

MR. SAMSON: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman. As you know, and I'm sure we all understand, the way the British parliamentary system is set up is that this is a time reserved for the Opposition Parties to examine the estimates presented by the government on behalf of Nova Scotians who are the taxpayers, whose money is being spent. While it has happened in the past, very few times in my 14 years, where government members have questioned ministers during estimates, this will be the second time we see this during this budgetary process, having seen this happen last Tuesday evening with the estimates of the Department of Agriculture.

 

So, Mr. Chairman, as you're aware, we still have a number of departments to get to, and unfortunately for the Opposition, we have a limit on how many hours we can examine the estimates. Therefore, we're doing our best to ensure that we can get through the various departments on behalf of all Nova Scotians to review the estimates as provided. I would submit to you that the government using up the time allotted for the Opposition a second time during this session is an abuse of process. It certainly doesn't serve the best interests of Nova Scotians. Government members have access to the ministers through caucus meetings where they can ask questions of their ministers should they wish to do so. This is certainly not something that's made available to the Opposition, which is why we have this process.

 

We were advised earlier by the Government House Leader that regardless of the intentions of the Opposition, the government would be ensuring that this department remains here today for the entire four hours allotted to us. I would submit to you again that that is an abuse of process, and on that I would ask the Chair to rule on the appropriateness of that now that both the Official Opposition and the Progressive Conservative caucus have indicated they are prepared to move on to the next department, then invite the minister here to give his closing remarks so we can prepare for the next department.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: My ruling would be for the two Opposition House Leaders to return to the Chamber and get the Government House Leader and have a caucus between the three of you and ascertain if there is any change of mind with regard to this.

 

The 31 members from the NDP caucus have some questions to raise, as well, and we have four of those present at the present moment. We could hear some comments from others as well. Mr. Preyra.

 

MR. SAMSON: Mr. Chairman, if I could respond to what you've suggested (Interruption) Well, on a point of order then, which is always in order, so I'll call a point of order if that helps the member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

 

I believe you've made a ruling where you've made a positive suggestion. Based on that, I would suggest that you have this committee stand for five minutes to allow the House Leader of the Official Opposition - myself - and the Progressive Conservative House Leader to do exactly what you have suggested and speak to the Government House Leader to seek a resolution to this matter.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, here is what I am proposing, that the two House Leaders, the Liberal and Progressive Conservative, both present, remove themselves now and have that caucus while a couple of questions are being asked. If it's five minutes it takes to get you to come back, it's five minutes.

 

MR. SAMSON: But it's five minutes we lose of Opposition asking questions.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, five minutes is better than two and a half hours so I suggest you go. Is there another point of order? Certainly we're easy on points of order here.

 

HON. CHRISTOPHER D'ENTREMONT: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order. I know you're sending the two Opposition House Leaders to go and discuss it with the Government House Leader, but the issue is maybe there would be a supporting cast of NDP members that might suggest the same thing to your House Leader. At this point, there has been an uncertainty or an unwillingness to move on. I'll concur with what the House Leader of the Official Opposition has said; apparently we're here for four hours with Communities, Culture and Heritage when the Opposition is clearly done with questioning of his department. I know he has more important things to do than sit here all day talking about it.

 

I'm just conscious of his time, and of course his staff's time. Again, thinking the best of my friends, I guess that's where I am at this point.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm sure the two House Leaders can be quite persuasive at times, so please see what you can do and we will be flexible. If the three of you come to an agreement, that's great. In the meantime we will have the NDP proceed with a couple of questions at least. I would expect that you would return with the Government House Leader so I could hear it from him.

 

The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island, you have two and a half hours.

 

MR. LEONARD PREYRA: Thank you, I'm delighted at this opportunity and as you know, in the British parliamentary tradition, all members of the Legislature have certain rights and privileges that come with this process. That includes the right to be heard, the right to ask questions, and the right to bring forward some of the issues and concerns that our constituents might have.

 

I'm not exactly sure what the Opposition is proposing when it says that only Opposition members have these rights that have historically been available to all members of the Legislature. Certainly, we intend to exercise those rights in the interests of our constituents. It's also particularly important that we ask questions of this minister, given that he and his staff are involved in a very exciting endeavour with lots of new initiatives and certainly initiatives that are very important to my constituency of Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

 

I know artists and members in the cultural sector have been waiting for many years for the initiatives that are being brought forward, particularly as they relate to Arts Nova Scotia and the Status of the Artist legislation, both of which are currently under discussion, both in this Legislature and outside. This is a great opportunity for that community, through us, to hear what the minister has to say and what the minister is offering for the future to that particular group.

 

It's also important because Nova Scotia is a pluralistic society and we are doing a great deal to make us a more diverse province. One of the new responsibilities this minister has is for the various Offices of Acadian Affairs, Aboriginal Affairs, African Nova Scotian Affairs, and Gaelic Affairs. For that reason, as well, it's very important that we ask questions, not necessarily because we need to ask those questions, but members of our community need to know what's happening with this department and how this minister is exercising his responsibilities and how he is allocating public monies or has allocated public monies. It is an accountability session and certainly, as members of the Legislature - regardless of what side of the House we sit on - we have obligations to our constituents. Certainly if other members have no questions to ask, that's their right, but we certainly have those rights and we intend to exercise them.

 

With that by way of introduction, I would like to ask the minister a few questions, particularly as they relate to some of the new initiatives being brought forward. I wonder if the minister could tell us something about the history and the background of the Status of the Artist Act legislation. It's among the first in the country, and certainly Nova Scotia artists broadly defined have been looking for respect for a number of years. They've been looking for initiatives that would recognize them, that would recognize that the government would treat them as valued members of our community; that they're looking for the government and the community at large to allocate some value to what they're doing and the incentives that might be provided to artists to practise their craft and to earn a living.

 

The minister has described this legislation as providing a framework for future legislation. It strikes me as a very exciting, very important piece of legislation, and I would like to know from the minister how he and his department came about it and what it's designed to do.

 

MR. WILSON: Mr. Chairman, I know the member who asked the question has a strong interest in arts and culture, especially in his riding. I think every event that I'm able to attend in his riding, he's there. I know you're quite busy with that sector and support it immensely. No question, I think Status of the Artist legislation is something the sector has been asking for and really kind of looking towards for many years here in Nova Scotia. I think, as we look across the country, many jurisdictions have similar types of legislation or try to. Some provinces do a much better job at their legislation that they have in place.

 

In 2010, we did wide consultation within the arts and culture sector, and something that came out of that was definitely the appetite to have something in legislation in Nova Scotia to pay respect or show respect to what a professional artist is in our province. By that consultation that we did have and that did take place, I think there were well over a thousand interactions and comments and interviews with individuals from across the province. That was something that our government took seriously, and I think the recommendation to bring forward Status of the Artist legislation was well received within the arts and culture community.

 

No question, I was proud to introduce that earlier this year. It's something that I think the government should be proud of doing, should be proud of ensuring that our artists, our arts and culture sector, are supported within the province. The creative economy contributes so much to our economy here in Nova Scotia, and the thing with arts and culture is that it doesn't have to happen just here in Halifax or in Sydney or in Yarmouth. It can happen in some of the smallest towns and communities throughout the province. I think if we have a good foundation for arts and culture in the province then we can continue to build on ensuring that we're meeting the needs of the sector but also ensuring that artists here in Nova Scotia feel they have the respect of government and they have the support, and that the programs we deliver on behalf of Nova Scotians that target the arts and culture sector are ones that are productive and are doing what they're supposed to do.

 

So we had a lot of support for Status of the Artist legislation. We created the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council earlier last year, and they worked extremely hard on this legislation and some of the background that was used to finalize its draft. The vice-chair of the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council was Jim Morrow who is the artistic director for Mermaid Theatre. Jim had a committee put together of a great group of individuals, I think, who contributed so much to ensuring that the legislation we put forward was the most appropriate one.

 

His committee members were Peter Dykhuis, who is a visual artist and curator; we also had Anthony Black, who is a director, designer, and an actor for 2b Theatre; and Barbara Richman, who is an arts consultant and former executive director of Symphony Nova Scotia and Halifax Dance. So I think right from the start we had a good group of individuals looking at the Status of the Artist legislation. They combed through countless other pieces of legislation from across the country but around the world on what would really be the most appropriate piece of legislation for us as a province to bring forward.

 

I was happy to bring that forward earlier this year and I think the sector will be, in the future, much appreciative of our efforts ensuring that, as I said earlier at the start, that they get the respect they deserve. I think during some of my comments when we introduced the bill was that in it we defined what a professional artist is but we're not just stopping there, we're not just creating something that goes towards just the professional artist, we're ensuring that anybody who applies for funding through our department, you don't have to be a professional artist to receive support from the government. We have a countless number of different programs that individuals or organizations can apply to to get support of government, and I think we'll continue to see support from the government.

 

I'm proud in this current budget that we've maintained the funds going to those individual grants and the programs that we have. It's very easy, I think, and we've seen past governments tend to target the programs that we offer first when you try to go through an exercise like getting back to balance that we've been doing over the last number of years. I think our efforts and what we have done in the last couple of years with maintaining the funding to a lot of these programs that we recognize how important they are. I know I have the support of my full caucus and the Cabinet to ensure that we continue to support the arts and culture sector here in Nova Scotia. I think Status of the Artist legislation is just one piece of many ways that we can show that support for the arts and culture sector.

 

MR. PREYRA: Mr. Chairman, the whole question of status of the artist has been so fraught with difficulty in the past, in large part because artists have, you know, seen kind of a top-down approach to decision making. I know at the - not the initial meeting but certainly one of the meetings that was held at the Citadel Halifax Hotel, you know, the meetings were announced - I forget the name of the group that actually conducted those consultations but the meeting was announced. We expected a very small group of people to show up and I was surprised to see that there was an overflow crowd; there were people in the hallways.

 

I think many of the artists I talked with were a little bit cynical, you know, they had been through this process before and they had seen nothing come of it. So to see them all in the room was a surprise to me because they are generally cynical about how, you know, governments make policy related to the arts. I wonder if you can say something about the whole consultative process that has gone into building this particular sector.

 

I know there are a number of pillars in the arts strategy, but in general about the consultation because I know I've seen in the last several weeks letters from people in my constituency, and I meet with them regularly and, you know, they feel that they can speak their minds on these issues, that most of the time, you know, they come back and say, well, you know, we've been calling for this and nothing has happened or the government has announced this program, but we know nothing about it or this artist, and apart from the policies themselves there just seems to be a general climate of trust with artists, between artists and the government, and I think you and your department should take some credit for that.

 

I know Marcel McKeough, in particular, has spent a lot of time with them and with me over the last couple of years, but I think those confidence-building measures and that attempt to build bridges with the community is paying off. I'm wondering exactly what kinds of consultations led to this process and how do you see that unfolding both within the partnership, leadership council, and the Arts Nova Scotia group as well?

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for the question. Early in 2010, as I said earlier, there was wide consultation that happened with the sector. We had an amazing amount of support and interaction and take-up on those consultations. The result of that, as we announced last year, the Premier and I with our five-point plan on how we're going to deal with the arts and culture sector here in Nova Scotia, one of the things we wanted was to ensure we had the appropriate organization or body to give advice to government, to give us the areas where we need to work as a government on policy or programming, or similar events.

 

So the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council was formed in the Spring of 2011 and they kind of took the Status of the Artist legislation and other initiatives to task and worked really hard on bringing back recommendations to government. They narrowed down and, of course, did some more consultation after the broad consultations in 2010, and that really was the basis of where the legislation came from, for example, Status of the Artist legislation, but they're going to continue to work with us. The chair of that is Ron Bourgeois who is a great individual, a great artist here in Nova Scotia, who contributes so much to the creative economy for one, but has dedicated a lot of time in the last year or so to the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council. I think with his direction we've been able to move forward on a number of initiatives.

 

In the five-point plan, of course, creating the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council was one of the points but also developing a communications strategy for arts and culture which includes our interactive Web site, which I mentioned earlier in a question from one of our colleagues. I think it's important that we have the resources of government available to individual artists from across the province so if they're an up-and-coming artist that they have opportunities to have exposure or get some exposure. I think that is a good initiative to move on, and we're working on that and will continue to work on it to have it up and running soon.

 

Also one of the recommendations out of the consultation was to create an interdepartmental committee to oversee government efforts in how they support arts and culture - and not just in our Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage but the departments that fall within government - so that when other departments are making decisions on investing or policy or programming, that they recognize the creative sector could play an important role in making sure their decisions, if they can support the sector, that they make that possible.

 

That committee has met several times over the last year, I think at least 10 times now. They try to meet on a monthly basis but sometimes it may be six weeks or so. We have a number of departments that are in there; we have Health and Wellness, which I mentioned earlier wasn't originally on the committee but Minister MacDonald knew that it was an important committee so advised that her deputy would be at the table on that. I think there's a lot of buy-in to the work that we're moving on within the new department; ensuring that we have the proper foundation is the key to providing for the sector.

 

The other thing in the five-point plan was the creation of Arts Nova Scotia. I think this body that will oversee the decisions of where the funding goes to individual artists and small organizations is an important one. It has been a commitment of our Party for a long time. It was 10 years ago, I believe about a month ago, that the former government removed that body from making decisions and I think right from the start we recognized that to have that organization running and providing the information and the decision making is important. So we're very proud to say that we've committed to do that and that we fulfilled that commitment. I think the new board just recently met for the first time to really get their feet under them, and it shouldn't be that much more in the future where they'll be handling those funds.

 

I think overall it's about $2.4 million worth of grants that they'll be overseeing. We've commited to having a director for Arts Nova Scotia and the department will cover the costs of that director. I think the first thing we wanted to do is to ensure that we maximize the amount of money going to the artists. It was more important for us to ensure that the most amount of money can get into the hands of the artist at the end of the day once they are approved through a program.

 

That position is a full-time position. I think the cost for the salary and the operating of that position is about $132,000 per year. It's a significant amount of money which I think we all would say would be more appropriate for the department to pay for than to come out of those funds that we want to get to individual artists or small organizations. I think we've moved a long way just in a short period of time - introducing the five-point plan and ensuring we build a strong foundation for the creative sector. The Status of the Artist legislation was one of the other points in that five-point plan.

 

We're well on our way to achieving all those points in the plan and I look forward in the coming months to fulfill all of them. I think the sector recognizes the efforts of my staff and the department and the government as a whole, our commitment to the arts and culture sector here in the province.

 

MR. PREYRA: I think one of the things I keep hearing from artists, particularly as it relates to Arts Nova Scotia, is that it's not just a question of how much money they get, everyone would like some more money in that envelope, but the sense that decisions relating to the arts as far as possible should be made by artists and for artists, with people who actually understand the challenges and opportunities that exist in the field, particularly new and emerging artists or artists who have been outside the centres. It has struck me that artists are looking largely for a sense that government understands them or that policies relating to artists are being made by governments that understand them. I'm really looking forward to seeing this process unfold, of course, we're all looking forward to seeing more money in the field, but this is a good first step and that's what the artists are telling us.

 

I had a general question about the creative economy itself, you know everyone tosses this phrase around and it's what has become one of those buzzwords. Certainly in my constituency it's more than just a buzzword; it's an important part of the survival of this constituency. I know you've been in my constituency a lot over the last several days and the whole opportunity that exists in collaboration between Communities, Culture and Heritage and Economic and Rural Development, for example, saw a lot of that in the whole Titanic initiative here. I'm assuming what you're saying is that there is money around in government, and what we're trying to do is spend it more effectively.

 

I'm assuming that the interdepartmental committee is one of the many ways we have to do that and I want to encourage you because there certainly was a sense before that some of the larger cultural industries were constantly getting money and there was a duplication of money that these groups were getting, where other groups were not. I think part of the benefit of this initiative - and we wish you success in that - is to see if money could be spent more effectively within government and that where there are pools of money they're spent in an efficient way, particularly as they relate to groups that are emerging as artists.

 

Is there any sense, though, in general as to what the size of the creative economy is here and whether or not we have measures in place to establish that?

 

MR. WILSON: I think the key issue for us is to ensure that artists in the sector feel that they have the opportunity to grow in whatever discipline they work in or work under. What we're trying to do is lay the foundation so that when they come to government there either seems to be one door they can go through to get that support or be told where to go to seek the support that they're looking for. That's one reason why we restructured the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage: so we're not duplicating resources throughout government, especially when it comes to the arts and culture sector.

 

One reason that we moved the administration of Acadian Affairs, African Nova Scotian Affairs, and Gaelic Affairs under our department is so we can help those organizations that these offices support in a more effective way. Often in the past the three offices worked extremely hard trying to ensure that the communities they represent and support can get the support from government that they need and wish. What we want to happen, and I think we've seen it in more recent events that have been taken place in Nova Scotia, if there's a resource in the secretariat, for example, that Acadian Affairs could benefit from, then we're more than willing to have that openness to support that so they can get even more support. Often in the past each of the offices, for example, were working hard on their projects, and at times when we do have limited resources and limited financial capability of providing funds to those offices, it was challenging for them.

 

I think by the restructuring that we have, hopefully - and I hope the directors of all those offices feel that they have more resources at their fingertips now from across the whole department and that's really what we're striving for: to ensure that the funds we allocate to a certain project can be stretched to the maximum so we don't, as I said before, duplicate things and that you're wasting funds or wasting time trying to provide a service. So with the overall structure that we have in place now, I think we're going to maximize the opportunity and the ability to provide the services we do within our department, and I think we'll move forward on that.

 

MR. PREYRA: Mr. Chairman, I'm really glad to hear the minister talk about the initiatives that are being taken in this area, particularly as they relate to meeting the needs of artistic and cultural groups that have hitherto been neglected. I know that when I first was elected, there was a great deal of frustration on the part of artists that so many artists from outside Canada were being given large sums of money to come here and there was no real evidence that there was any great benefit to the local community, that there were no great revenues, but the taxpayers were spending a lot of money to bring them here. I'm happy to hear the minister talk in terms of encouraging local artists and encouraging a diversity of talent.

 

If I can make a pitch while I have the minister's attention, I do want to put in a pitch for The Khyber Center for the Arts. I know I've raised this question in estimates in the past and The Khyber has been one of those wonderful institutions for a number of years in my constituency where young and emerging artists have been able to use this performing space, that they've had a small bar downstairs where they've been able to bring in artists who otherwise would not get a platform for their craft or their art. They've had a great audience and they were running that place in a reasonably efficient and effective manner but, more importantly, a number of our great artists have come out of The Khyber. I know I was there not that long ago and Joel Plaskett was there and people were wondering why he would come in and give a concert at The Khyber. He said that he would not have been able to develop his craft if it wasn't for the fact that he had The Khyber.

 

The Khyber has a great theatre upstairs and I've witnessed a lot of performances - not everything that everyone would want to see, but the point is that it gives artists a place, it gives them a venue, and it's a relatively low-cost way. But the way I see it and the way a lot of the artists in my community see it, if you're going to develop a creative economy, if you're going to develop talent, if you're going to showcase what you have to offer, particularly younger people who really don't have any other place, this is where the creative economy begins.

 

If the minister would like to comment on that, I would certainly like to hear him, but I would like to pitch it that in developing our Communities, Culture and Heritage policy that we keep in mind that even though these small, incubating spaces might not bring in the revenues that a large concert might bring, or something at the Metro Centre might bring, we do have to look at our cultural policy as something that we're developing not just for today's artists, not for this year, not for the next couple of years, but we are developing something for 10 or 20 years down the road. Our young artists and our emerging artists should have the opportunity to play in their hometown, they should have the opportunity to compete for scarce dollars, and an investment in a place like The Khyber is no different from any other investment that we may make in other parts of the economy or investments we may make in other forms of activity.

 

I'll stop rambling there but I do have other questions on that as well. I do want to know whether or not there is any place in our strategy for young and emerging artists who practise different types of arts, and arts that are not even recognized as arts at the moment, either here in my constituency or in other parts of Nova Scotia.

 

MR. WILSON: Definitely on the first thing on The Khyber, I know the department is working with them. We want to ensure that when an organization comes to the government that we can react, that we can support them, and we try to do that to the best of our ability, no question. Resources are always an issue, financial resources that the government has. We as a department work within a certain envelope that's provided from the Finance Department, and I think we do an amazing job at trying to stretch those funds as far as we can.

 

One of the things we know that we need to do, and I don't think we've done a great job at it, is ensuring that we maximize the funds that we have. Going out seeking other opportunities, maybe other funding partners, different levels of government, or even in the private sector, I think there's a great opportunity to do that and to increase the support we can provide to the sector.

 

On your earlier question around the data and trying to understand what the creative economy contributes to the province, it's something that's difficult to do, one that we're going to continue to work on. We created a position within the new structure to do just that, to look at how to collect and analyze the creative economy and what that contributes to the economy in Nova Scotia.

 

We have some old data that states that culture jobs are worth about $1.3 billion in the province and create indirect and direct jobs of about 28,000, but that's old data. Recently, in the last federal-provincial-territorial meeting in Whitehorse, the provinces across the country have agreed to work together to try to make sure that we have the most up-to-date data on the impact of culture and heritage that they have within the economies in our province. We are really taking the lead on the satellite project that will provide that data in Nova Scotia, and I think in the near future we'll be able to get some of that data and really show Nova Scotians and other departments within my government what impact a little investment has when it comes to the creative sector.

 

One of the things with the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council and their role and their job is one of the things they are working on now is to work on a culture strategy for the province. I know there's a lot of input from all members of the committee, and if you look at the makeup of the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council, you have such a range of artists on that organization. It's not just your typical singer or actor, I mean it's such a rich, diverse organization, and I think that's where we'll be able to see the results when we do finally get a culture strategy from them and what that looks like.

 

We're going to continue to work with them and I think that's why with that group as an advisory group to the government that we'll continue to get good information, we'll continue to get where the government needs to put their support, what policies need to change, or maybe even future legislation if that's something that they see as needed here in the Province of Nova Scotia. I think we've laid the groundwork and the foundation to really move forward in the years to come. We're just coming out of a recession that has impacted the opportunities that organizations have no matter if it's in the creative sector or in the business sector - you know, the typical business sector. I think in the future we'll see new investment opportunities for the creative economy and for the sector.

 

I think it's important that we educate as many people as possible to the potentials, and that's why I think having good data on what impact the creative sector has to the economy in the province is important. So we're going to continue to work to make sure we have the most up-to-date information, and then that just supports and makes it easier for me as minister to sell the possibility or sell the idea of getting future investment or increasing budgets, for example. I mean I think all ministers would love to see an increase in their budget on a yearly basis, and organizations.

 

MR. PREYRA: You actually got one.

 

MR. WILSON: We did get an increase which is good. So we're winning that battle.

 

MR. PREYRA: You're one of the few.

 

MR. WILSON: I'm very happy that my colleagues have supported new investment in the department and in programs. As we mentioned earlier, there's a lot of interest around the new program that we have for the Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Program. I see the arts and culture sector being able to utilize that program also in communities across the province; for example, a lot of not-for-profit theatre groups that are working on initiatives within their community, I think there are opportunities here for them to gain access to some of the money in this department. I hope that those organizations come to their MLAs and come to the government with proposals to enhance their ability to provide whatever they're working on to the community where they're from. I know you had some more questions.

 

MR. PREYRA: Thank you, Mr. Minister, I do have lots of questions, but I do want to stay just for a minute on this theme of incubating spaces. I know another place that you and I have spent a lot of time on in the last year has been at the Spatz Theatre at Citadel High School. One of the things I think that's really wonderful about the whole initiative, and I think in particular I want to thank Marcel McKeough again for his great support of some of the initiatives that have been brought forward on the Spatz Theatre but, you know, you will recall that for several years the Citadel Theatre Society was spending a lot of time raising money, did raise a lot of money, and eventually thanks to the help of some very generous donors and people who bought seats, the Citadel Theatre Society was able to finish the project.

 

You will recall that during the Canada Games, the department was very good in leveraging some money that was available through the Canada Games to hold events at the Spatz Theatre, and I think is a really great example of what you were talking about earlier in terms of interdepartmental collaboration and leveraging of money there to promote events.

 

One of the great advantages with the way Citadel High School is built - and I think Citadel High School is a great model for other communities that are looking at public institutions - the City of Halifax came through and said the high school needs a really good gym, or two gyms, both to promote the program itself but also to promote other activities in the community. I know the minister is an athlete, as well, and it's important to have tournaments and to have gyms where you can have multiple games going on. So there was a partnership there when the building was built where some of the building can be used during the school day for students and when it's not, and on the weekends and evenings, it can be used by the community, and I'm delighted to see how well used those institutions are.

 

The same is true of the Spatz Theatre. The Spatz Theatre is going to be developed or Citadel High School is going to be developed as a centre of excellence in the arts. The school itself has a number of purpose-built classes - for music, art, production and design, and shop. The designers of that school in their wisdom developed all these spaces to create the centre of excellence in the arts, and I'm happy to see how much progress is being made within the school in developing that part of the creative economy and how well used the Spatz Theatre is.

 

I know the minister talked about interdepartmental collaboration and from my point of view - I'm sorry to dwell so much on my constituency, but as I opened by saying, it's an important opportunity that members of the Legislature have to ask the department about its spending. In this case, I am very interested in knowing and I'm happy to know that there is going to be some interdepartmental collaboration where if we are going to develop incubating spaces for artists, if we are going to develop a creative economy, if we are going to develop partnerships just like The Khyber, then Citadel High School and high schools across the province have a place in nurturing and developing and building that creative economy.

 

I wonder if the minister can comment a little bit. I know the Minister of Education has talked a lot about SchoolsPlus, for example, where schools that might not have the high level of enrolment that they need are being used for other community purposes: health, teaching languages, providing community services and just - restorative justice and all that. I'm not sure whether or not in those conversations there have been some conversations, as well, about how schools can be used. I say this because I know Citadel High School already has many of the things I'm advocating, but schools can also be used as creative spaces to develop the creative economy. The department can use what limited resources it has, but certainly its connections to other departments, to help develop schools as well as these other incubating spaces.

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, over the last year or so we spent some time in Spatz Theatre, it's a wonderful addition to the city and to the school and, no question, it was a great opportunity for us as a province to host the Winter Games - I don't know if it was the first time we had it - but a great addition to not just the sporting events for the Canada Games, but bringing young artists from across the country together, to come to the Canada Games and perform. Of course, they put on a show at the newly-opened Spatz Theatre and it was a great performance. I think the young people who came from across the country got together with their peers and were able to learn from each other, from all kinds of different disciplines of artistic performances that they brought to that show.

 

We'll continue to work as a department to try to support initiatives within communities, in your riding. I know there's a lot here in Halifax, but throughout the province. One of the organizations or groups that are working hard right now is the Legacy project that they're looking at doing here in Halifax. That's Theatre Nova Scotia and Dance Nova Scotia, two groups that are working together to develop a performance arts space that's built purposely for the arts. We're supporting them with some funds to develop a business plan for that.

 

It's those types of supports that government can provide to organizations to ensure we're meeting the needs of the sector. Of course, the Legacy project is here in the capital, but there are many smaller groups around the province that get support from the department through the different programs that we have so that they can grow and provide a venue or an avenue for artists within Nova Scotia to perform or show their work or do a performance.

 

We're going to continue to work with the different groups like the Legacy group and other ones to ensure we meet those requirements.

 

MR. PREYRA: If I can move on to another incubating industry in my constituency. A couple of years ago I received a call from Paul Rigg - I don't know if you know him from the Digital Animators of Nova Scotia. They were trying to form an association and were essentially saying they would like for digital animation what the government does for film and music. Probably like a lot of MLAs, we really don't know that much about the digital animation industry or how it works. Certainly it was a very quick education for me to know that we had such a pool of talent here in our province and an industry that has so much potential, and it was two years ago when the government decided to reinterpret our tax regime so that digital animators could get the same kinds of incentives that other cultural industries got.

 

Not that long ago I was at NSCAD to an opening of a new facility for digital animators and filmmakers. It has been a real eye-opener to know that these things are happening in our province and in our community, and that we are so competitive. In fact, not a day goes by when we don't hear something about a new contract that has been established. I know Michael Donovan, for example, at Salter Street and DHX has been in the forefront of it but a whole new industry seems to be developing around it.

 

I'm wondering if there is any - I'm not even sure if this falls within your department but it does strike me as another one of those great incubating industries that has a lot of potential, particularly since we have the resources already in place. So I would just leave that with you - I know that it might not be in your department but you can use your good offices to put out the good word that we have this great base in our province of very young, very talented animators who have this world vision - I mean their market is out in other parts of the world and they are competing very effectively in that area.

 

I should say the member for Truro-Bible Hill is sitting beside me and I would be remiss in not saying that she, as we say, resembles that remark, because she has developed quite a reputation both in our province and abroad. I know that when people talk about this government and this caucus - not to blow our own horn, but - they are very much impressed with that fact that we have artists, practising artists, very successful artists in the caucus itself. I don't think I'd be telling tales out of school if I said that sometimes our caucus meetings, when it comes to discussions of arts and culture issues, are quite vigorous, very thought-provoking, and very illuminating. I'm delighted that the member for Truro-Bible Hill is part of our caucus, if only for selfish reasons, because my constituents in Halifax Citadel are delighted to know they have strong advocates at our table.

 

I would like to move on to another area if you don't mind, Mr. Chairman. One of the things that I also noted in the creation of the new department is some of it is just an amalgamation of other units, and I'll get to that a little later. But I wanted to ask you something about communities.

 

I think anyone who has paid attention to the department's terms of reference and responsibilities of the minister will be struck by the fact that there is this new word - and I'm assuming it's more than a word - that's carved onto the department called "communities." I know there are a number of groups that although they might not be well represented in my constituency, they have their offices in my constituency. I'm thinking of a group like the Multicultural Association of Nova Scotia, for example, the Multicultural Festival, and I'm just wondering - I know this will be a broad question, but I have more specifically-related questions - what is this new communities unit or this new theme going to include and how is the department developing that or defining it?

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for the question. It's an extremely important component of the new department. The new division will be working on diversity; social equity; of course, as you just mentioned, multiculturalism; and support and work with communities of interest and communities of practice. We're trying to ensure that we meet all the needs of organizations and make sure that we do it in the most appropriate manner.

 

One of the things that we will be doing is the diversity round table, moving it into the department, and I think it's important as we move forward. With any policy or decision making that government makes, I think you need to ensure that you do it in the most appropriate manner. I think the new title fits with what our objectives are with creating the new department.

 

MR. PREYRA: I did want to ask you - I have very few minutes left and I want to take advantage of the time I have with you - as you know, we've had a number of festivals and events here and right through Nova Scotia. In fact, the ViewFinders International Film Festival is on now. Another one of those great things about the job, as you know, is sometimes you get exposed to things that you would not normally. ViewFinders is an organization that I first encountered during the Democracy 250 period and we were looking for ways to showcase our young filmmakers. We got a proposal from a group in East Preston to do a video - mostly the committee offered them some expertise to put this film together - and a group of African Nova Scotian kids in East Preston put together a film called - I know the working title was What Obama Means to Me.

 

It was a remarkable story because we had not really thought of it in that way, that then-candidate Obama was having such a tremendous influence on young people, particularly African Nova Scotian children. D250 offered them a place and a way to give voice to that feeling and it was a very moving presentation that eventually was presented at ViewFinders and co-sponsored by ViewFinders, but it made its way to the Obama camp and it was used there as well. All by way of saying that sometimes our small actions - whether it's in a department or the individual level - have huge impacts. I think if we do have seed money for certain types of festivals and events like ViewFinders, it is money well spent even though it might not attract the same number of tourist dollars and things like that.

 

There are a number of events like that in the constituency. I'm thinking of the Jazz Festival, which the department has been a strong supporter of, and the Multicultural Festival - which I've already mentioned - and there's a blues festival, a variety of music. In developing the department's strategy on festivals and events, I certainly would want to encourage the minister to look at what kinds of local talent are being developed, embraced, encouraged, and over the long run promoted in our community.

 

I want, in particular, to give a shout-out to the Halifax Jazz Festival, which has done a great job of bringing in national and international artists, but always pairing them with local artists and always giving them an opportunity to perform on a stage where there is a huge crowd. The crowd may not have arrived there to see them but certainly they have impressed the crowds and they've given those young artists a chance to perform. I'm wondering whether the minister can say something about departmental initiatives and programs that might exist for encouraging local performances and local festivals that encourage local artists.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Minister, before you respond, I usually give a 10-minute warning but I've been otherwise engaged . . .

 

MR. PREYRA: I'll take 10 more minutes.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: . . . and it's a five-minute warning. So you have five minutes remaining in the hour that you have, and certainly if there are no questions from the other caucuses, you can go on further or turn it over to someone else. I think Ms. Zann has some questions as well. Mr. Preyra or the minister - the minister is responding. Sorry for the interruption.

 

MR. WILSON: I know in your constituency you have quite a number of organizations, you know, a vast majority of them in the province are in Halifax but we have a number of programs under development for Culture and Heritage Development. One of them is cultural activities, and we provide over $600,000 and that helps build communities through projects that celebrate and develop community-based artistic and cultural activities that involve Nova Scotia youth, for example. It's so important that we always recognize - often I think we don't realize the importance of supporting youth activities, especially in the cultural sector. There are a tremendous amount of talented young people in our province and we recognize that. So that's why we continue to support them through the Cultural and Youth Activities Program, and we'll continue to do that in the future.

 

Also under our programs we have the anchor organizations which we provide $3.5 million to, and that support is provided to organizations which produce cultural products, own or manage cultural facilities. It also provides services to the cultural sector that produce or present cultural festivals or events. Such organizations, no question, are fundamental to the vitality and long-term health of the arts and culture life here in Nova Scotia and, as I said, we give over $3.5 million to that program, or organizations have access to over $3.5 million.

 

We also have Arts Nova Scotia grants to individuals and organizations or small groups under that, and that of course is the legislation that we brought in to create Arts Nova Scotia. They'll oversee a couple of different programs. I know you have another question so I'll give it to you in a second here. They're going to oversee the Art Bank purchases that the province does. I think it's a great program that supports up-and-coming artists by the province purchasing through that program, and I think maybe I'll leave it for your last question.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: That concludes the hour that had been allocated to the NDP caucus. If Mr. MacLellan has any questions, we could go to him. If not, we will go to Ms. Zann.

 

The honourable member for Truro-Bible Hill.

 

MS. LENORE ZANN: Yes, thank you very much. Actually, I will let my colleague finish his question and then I will continue, if that's okay.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure, by all means. Mr. Preyra, you have the floor.

 

MR. PREYRA: I'd like to thank the member for Truro-Bible Hill. It's not really an earth-shattering question, but I know there are lots of community groups that are not aware of what the department is doing or what programs the department has available. I would appreciate it if the minister would table some of those documents so that we could, in fact, copy it to our constituents who come in asking for help with programs.

 

With that, I'd like to thank the minister for answering his questions. If we run out of questions on this side or the other side, I would be happy to come back because I do have a lot of other questions as well.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Truro-Bible Hill.

 

MS. LENORE ZANN: First of all I just want to say thank you so much for being here today. Communities, Culture and Heritage is always a subject and a department that interests me and that I support wholeheartedly. I actually find it rather disappointing that the House Leader of the Official Opposition felt that there were no more questions to be asked of this important department, because as far as I'm concerned, it's just as important as every other department right across the board. Oftentimes, I feel it gets short shrift in people's minds and hearts. They seem to feel that culture and the arts is just the frou-frou or icing on the cake. I always like to say, no, it's actually the juice that holds the whole thing together.

 

That said, I want to commend you on all the work that you have done in the past couple of years since we have come into government. I'm very, very pleased with the direction that your department is taking. I'm curious about a few things that I'm just not quite sure about, so if you don't mind indulging me with a few questions, that would be great.

 

I know you said that Arts Nova Scotia will now be getting $2.4 million for the artists themselves to give out and there will be a director assigned to that. Do we know when that director will be chosen?

 

MR. WILSON: No, we're going to be posting that position shortly. As I think you're aware, that committee just met for the first time a couple weeks ago and they're just trying to get organized as a group. I see in the coming months - in the near future - we'll be posting that position. I look forward to it. As I said earlier to one of the other questions, I think it's important that we recognize that we try to maximize the amount of money that is going towards the awardments that the new organization will be overseeing. That's why we've committed to covering the costs under the department's budget, and the salary and anything that goes with that will be covered from the department so it won't come out of that pool of money.

 

MS. ZANN: So the people that are on the board - I was very excited to see all those wonderful names. Cory Bowles, of course, is from Truro and I think there's a lot of new blood in there, which will be very exciting to come up with some new ideas and directions. Could you explain to me, are each of those board members paid anything or is this voluntary?

 

MR. WILSON: When we had the transition committee or the committee together to oversee what the mandate of that organization would be, one of the main things that they wanted to ensure happened was that they would not be paid for being on that committee. No question, we'll cover expenses if they're coming to Halifax, for those who are from away and any of the costs related to the meetings that they have, we'll cover that. They wanted to make sure that they did not take a stipend for being on that board, much like a lot of our other committees within government pay a stipend or have a per diem for meetings that they had. I think it shows a lot to the character of the individuals who assisted us in creating what Arts Nova Scotia is and what they'll be doing, and I think it says a lot to them.

 

Under Arts Nova Scotia - I don't know if the member is aware of everything that will fall under their jurisdiction, but of course there are the anchor organizations, the Portia White awardment will be under there, the Art Bank purchases that I mentioned earlier, the Lieutenant Governor's Award, Artists in Schools, and the Nova Scotia Talent Trust will fall under that.

 

The anchor organizations are about $1 million and then those five or so other programs are about $1.4 million, for a total of about $2.4 million.

 

MS. ZANN: That's great. Could you also explain to me then, there are several other larger arts organizations that the department will still fund directly, is that correct? For instance, Neptune Theatre and maybe Symphony Nova Scotia - could you explain which ones will now fall under that umbrella and how much money they will be getting?

 

MR. WILSON: We'll work on the figures here but Arts Nova Scotia will oversee individual artists and small organizations. The bigger organizations that government has supported in the past, we'll continue to do that; I think it's important that government support their initiatives. I'm almost ready to give you some figures on the different costs. So it's about $2.5 million that the department will continue to support the larger organizations with. The transition team that came forward, when they made the recommendations on what Arts Nova Scotia were going to look after, they felt that the smaller organizations and individual artists were the most appropriate groups to oversee giving funding to at this time.

 

We're going to continue to be open and work with Arts Nova Scotia and work with the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council on future changes of policy. We have an open door and we're more than willing to discuss future changes but currently that transition team, the makeup of what they wanted, was the individual artists and the small organizations.

 

MS. ZANN: So the larger ones would include Neptune Theatre and Symphony Nova Scotia, probably.

 

MR. WILSON: Neptune Theatre is about $240,000 a year. We have a whole list here so I'm just trying to go through the bigger ones. Ross Creek Centre for the Arts is $60,000, so that's another example of a larger group we will oversee. Symphony Nova Scotia, of course, is one of the largest at $446,000 a year that we support them. We have a whole list of organizations that I could provide you.

 

MS. ZANN: You don't want to go through them all. Okay, that's great, thank you. By the way, what's going on with the Legacy Centre or are you able to talk about that? I believe they're joining forces with Neptune Theatre, is that correct?

 

MR. WILSON: I'm not too sure. I know they have had broad consultation in their own organization but the province and the department are willing to support them in their development of a business plan or a business case for the Legacy project. I know they're working with many groups. We just provided them $25,000 to cover the cost of a project manager to oversee it and try to get that business case for that project. We're more than willing to look at the results of that in the future, and we'll sit with them and see what support government can lend in the future.

 

MS. ZANN: Are they now going to be working with Neptune Theatre as well? Is Neptune Theatre coming on board that project and merging with them?

 

MR. WILSON: I'm not sure. Right now Theatre Nova Scotia and Dance Nova Scotia are the two groups within the Legacy group. I'm not sure who they . . .

 

MS. ZANN: And 2b theatre maybe too?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, 2b theatre.

 

MS. ZANN: Right, because that sounds like a pretty interesting project.

 

The Spatz Theatre seems to be going very well. I've been to a few shows there now - Ballet Jörgen and some of the other shows, I've been there about three times now. But some of these smaller ones say they don't have a home and that they could really use a regular place to hang their hats that's big enough for them to have large enough audiences to actually make a living. I had lunch with Anthony Black the other day and he was on his way over to Italy. He had just been to Australia, as well, with very successful tours with his plays.

 

Here in Nova Scotia, I think there are so many exciting young companies. You just have to look at Mulgrave Road Co-op Theatre and see all the incredible shows they've not only written and come up with, but have toured Canada and now are going to be performing at the Neptune Theatre again this year. Between them and several of the companies here - I know OneLight Theatre travelled to Toronto with The Veil, which was an incredible play and they specialize in multicultural shows. I know they had complained to me, when we first got in government actually, that there just wasn't enough funding for multicultural shows as opposed to the regular Scottish/Irish/Celtic heritage kinds of things, so they seem to be very pleased now that there's more funding for a broader range of plays and musicals and festivals.

 

Also, if you don't mind, I do have a question for you now regarding museums. I just wanted to know, you had mentioned about investments within the museum system that help address existing gaps in the province's interpretation of its history. So could you please discuss a little bit more how the department is actually addressing gaps within the Nova Scotia museum system, especially with regard to First Nations and African Nova Scotian communities across the province? Thank you.

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for the question. We've worked extremely hard to try to ensure that different organizations or museums across the province have been able to get support. In recent months and over the last year, one of the things that we're trying to do is ensure we maximize the support for the diversity that we have, the diverse communities that we have - the African Nova Scotian community, the Acadian communities, First Nations communities - and we've worked extremely hard to try to do that. Unfortunately, due to the treatment of past governments . . .

 

HON. MICHEL SAMSON: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order. I'm just wondering if you could advise what the quorum is for this committee, if we currently have quorum for this committee.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we do currently have quorum.

 

MR. SAMSON: So four is the quorum for this committee - you're confirming there are only four members here right now?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, I'm confirming that there are five members here now.

 

MR. SAMSON: Okay, and do you know what the quorum is for this committee?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I believe the total number for this committee is nine.

 

MR. SAMSON: The total number - do you know what the minimum number is?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The minimum is five, I believe.

 

MR. SAMSON: The minimum is five, okay.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Including the minister. It was just a point of information then, was it?

 

MR. SAMSON: Sure, if that's what you want to call it.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I thought you had a point of order and I was waiting for the point to be made.

 

Mr. Minister, you have the floor.

 

MR. WILSON: No question, as I said before, the past government utilized all the funds in CMAP, the Community Museum Assistance Program - the money goes to important museums across the province - and there isn't an ability to add new museums to the program currently because the funds for it are depleted.

 

One of the things we're working extremely hard on, as I said earlier, is to ensure that we showcase the diversity of our culture here in Nova Scotia. That's why we invested in the Birchtown project with a capital amount of about $750,000 for that new project, as well as operating grants of $250,000 to them. We've also been working with Debert on the Glooscap part - sorry, we've made Glooscap part of CMAP, and you've been very supportive of that organization and us moving towards supporting them, recognizing the challenges we have with the amount of money in CMAP right now that is all accounted for.

 

Hopefully in the near future we're moving forward to evaluate the CMAP program. We're doing a review now so we can see if there are changes that need to be made so that we're providing the services and the ability for potentially new museums to come in, maybe museums that are in CMAP now will leave the program. We need to be responsible for ensuring organizations and communities have the ability to get into that program, but due to the fact that all of the funds are accounted for, your hands are tied when it comes to a new organization wanting to gain access to CMAP. We can bring them into the program and not give them any money, but that really doesn't do anybody any good so we're going to continue to review that.

 

Grand Pré has been an area where we're very supportive. We are currently going through a process of potentially getting a UNESCO World Heritage designation for Grand Pré. The government has committed to support that over the next 10 years, if they're successful with $2.5 million, we have it in a trust right now so we're committed to potentially having that site being designated as a UNESCO site. I think we'll know in July of this year if we're successful, and that will just add to what we have to offer in the province and it will add to the visitors who come to Nova Scotia on what we can offer and showcase our diverse culture and our diverse background and the history that we have. Hopefully we show that with support of some of these organizations that I just mentioned.

 

CMAP is one that's so important and some organizations receive a small amount of money, some get more than others, but I think they all recognize that they need to ensure they can provide good services to their local community. Each community is different, every community plays a role in ensuring that our history is told that where we came from is protected and is showcased. We have a large number of them that work extremely hard and they're mostly made up of volunteers, and we recognize that the volunteer sector is shrinking every day; they're getting a little older and it's harder for them to continue to do the work.

 

Our department is more than willing to work with the different museums around Nova Scotia if they need some support, even if it's just advising them on how they can do something a little better or streamlining some of the events or organizations, streamlining some of the processes that they have to go through to maintain a museum. We have a total of 67 in the program now and with a budget of $978,600, which has been constant, we've been able to maintain that over the last couple of years which, no question, we could use more money but unfortunately, due to the finances of the province, we're not able to do that. But I'm glad that my colleagues have committed to keep that funding stable for the last couple of years, and again this year that funding has maintained what it was last year.

 

We'll continue with the review and hopefully see what we can do to maybe make changes to the program that will benefit museums across the province.

 

MS. ZANN: Thank you for that detailed answer, that's excellent. When did you say you think that the review would be complete?

 

MR. WILSON: We're hoping to have that done by the summer, and then we'll be able to evaluate what that review has found out and hopefully see what we can do to improve the program.

 

On top of the museums we also support a number of organizations like Joggins, which is a great asset to our province. That was successful a number of years ago to get the UNESCO designation. We are committed and supportive of $250,000 a year to Joggins.

 

The Black Cultural Centre, another organization that's so important to tell the story of Nova Scotia and who we are and where we came from, we support them with a forecast estimate budget this year of $190,000 again. They do amazing work, ensuring that visitors and Nova Scotians know the diverse culture that we have here and how African Nova Scotians have contributed so much to our province. We have a great history that needs to be told and I think the Black Cultural Centre does an amazing job at doing that. They recently just did kind of a renovation of the centre, and if you haven't been there, I encourage you to go. It's just an amazing place to be and it really showcases some of the real movers and shakers over the years of people who have contributed so much to the province, and I encourage you to go there.

 

MS. ZANN: Thank you. First of all I'd like to say a personal thank you so much for your help with the Glooscap Heritage Centre in my constituency. I know they had struggled for many years to try to get CMAP designation under former governments and were unsuccessful. They are absolutely thrilled to now finally have CMAP designation. In fact, it has helped them to be able to leverage funds from the federal government and to do many other projects, including: they have now built a theatre in an annex building which was a restaurant - I think it was called the Capricorn restaurant - but they have now turned it into a theatre which can be used as a dinner theatre or a regular theatre.

 

They are doing workshops right now with Ken Schwartz from Ross Creek Theatre in the Valley. They are training some of their staff plus other people from the community and other people who have taken the tourism industry program at the Nova Scotia Community College, to be able to write and put on plays about the Glooscap tales. They feel this would be another element that they can offer tourists who come in buses to the centre. They will now be putting on 10-, 15-, 30-minute plays telling tales of the Glooscap god.

 

In fact, I worked with them just recently to hold auditions for future productions, including putting on a production in the Fall sometime of a wonderful Canadian play called The Ecstasy of Rita Joe, by George Ryga. I'm going to go out and help find some of my friends across Canada who are First Nations, well-known stars in their right, to be in the production, to come in and work with the community, work with kids in the community who are interested in possible acting careers or careers in the arts, and work with them and show them by example how a successful actor who is of First Nations descent can go about having a career in the arts.

 

So there's a lot of excitement right now about that and I believe if we hadn't had the help from your department in the beginning, none of this would really be happening. So again I want to say thank you so much for your interest in and support of First Nations cultures, in helping them to get museums of their own across this province.

 

Speaking of that, I would also like to know the status of the Debert Cultural Centre, how much money we're contributing to that, and where they are in the process of that becoming a reality.

 

MR. WILSON: They are in the design phase of that project. Like Glooscap, they're working on trying to leverage funds from the federal government. They're hoping that they'll be a major player with them and a major contributor. So we're going to continue to work with them to see where we can go with that project.

 

As I said earlier, I think it's important that we continue to try to showcase our diverse culture here in the province, and I know Glooscap worked for a long time to try to get into CMAP, as you said, so they could leverage other funds, and they recognize coming into the program now without actually getting a designated amount of money through the program, but were more than willing to be accepted into the program because, like you say, they do have something to offer Nova Scotians and visitors. I think we'll continue to work with both groups in the future to try to ensure that we have such a broad range of what we have to offer Nova Scotians and visitors.

 

In your area I know there are a couple of museums that are under CMAP now: the Little White Schoolhouse Museum in Truro, which receives just over $1,600 in the CMAP program, and also the Colchester Historical Society Museum, which is one of the larger ones that we have in the program; they receive over $46,000 a year under CMAP. So you can see some of the range, or the wide range of funding and support that we have under the CMAP program.

 

We have one museum that receives just shy of $700 a year. It's smaller, the Amos Seaman School Museum, but we have larger ones like Colchester Historical Society Museum. Another one in Middleton is the Annapolis Valley Macdonald Museum which receives $46,000 but we have a number of them that are within a couple thousand dollars, but I think it shows that there's such a different range of what our history is across the province and in certain communities. So with the review, I'm hoping that we'll be able to open up and allow future museums, if that's the case, to come into the program and receive some support from the government.

 

MS. ZANN: Actually, did you have a figure that we contribute to the Mi'kmawey Debert museum? I know it's in development right now.

 

MR. WILSON: They don't get any funding right now. We're trying to see if we had through any of our programs, but I'll have to get back to you on that one. But currently it's not an open site so they don't fall under the CMAP program. I'll see if we have provided any funding over the years or over the last year on it.

 

MS. ZANN: Right, because I believe it was another department that might have funded them quite a bit of money a couple of years ago - Economic and Rural Development and Tourism probably. I think we gave them about $900,000 or something like that, but thank you very much.

 

What else did I want to ask you about? I had a little list here. What is your actual entire budget for the department this time around?

 

MR. WILSON: It's just over $58 million; the exact figure is $58.665 million.

 

MS. ZANN: Great, thank you very much. Does the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia fall under your portfolio as well?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, it does. We have a business plan, and in more recent months we associated ourselves with the federal government to provide funding towards a study for a potential new site here in Halifax. It's amazing if you have a chance to go through the Art Gallery, the amount of work that we have to showcase is unbelievable. They receive an annual grant of just over $2 million - $2.046 million a year - to operate the gallery here in Nova Scotia, and also we have a satellite gallery in Yarmouth that has been open for a number of years.

 

One of the issues that the gallery has is definitely capacity to show the works that they have. There's a lot of it in storage and it's unfortunate that we can't showcase that, because I think truly we could be one of the top galleries in Canada with some of the works that we have. It's amazing. They do a really good job for the space they have now and they really try to work and rotate the art that they do present. There's usually always something different in there, so I encourage people to go back and see what they have to offer.

 

We'll soon see what comes of the study, and see potentially what a different site might look like or what size a site we might need to showcase what we have in our collection now.

 

MS. ZANN: Did you say, do they have a couple of sites in mind at this point in time or are they still looking?

 

MR. WILSON: They do. There are a couple of sites now, but now they're looking at what the cost is and who owns what piece of land and is there a less expensive way of doing it. Hopefully in the future we'll be able to tell exactly where they think the most appropriate site is to maximize the potential to get more people through the doors of the gallery, to showcase what we have. Of course, we're trying to ensure that they're self-sufficient, and it has been a challenge over the last number of years. I think investing in a new site could potentially really benefit the Art Gallery and benefit what Nova Scotia can do on promoting our art collection.

 

MS. ZANN: I agree. Is it the Museum of Natural History where they had Sue the dinosaur, the T. Rex? Things like that are great, I think, because it captures the imagination of kids and their families. I would imagine that museum must have had a lot of people go through its doors while T. Rex Sue was on display. I'm sure the Titanic this week has also brought a lot of people to Halifax. I believe there were some cruises that came in especially to see the Titanic exhibits and the Titanic show the other night, which was excellent. I attended - actually, the Premier's wife and I and a few people were there. I believe my colleague the member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island was there too. It was an excellent show and I think the more we can do things that will interest the public to come to museums the better.

 

One of my favourite museum exhibits that I ever saw was in London, there was one on Cleopatra, which was fantastic and there was another one on Nefertiti, which was incredible as well. But my favourite one was a travelling show that has been around the world and maybe we could get it here sometime. Anyway, it was called London Bodies and what it was they had dug up all these different bodies throughout the years that were buried under London throughout all the centuries, starting with little tiny people from the ancient Roman days and right up until almost the present day. They would go through what these people ate, their habits, what killed them.

 

It was very interesting to note that what killed a lot of the women was the chasing after beauty. So, for instance, many of them you could see their whole organs had been squished into these corsets at one point. There were letters and there were diaries of these women that had been sent to these different sanatoriums, or whatever, where their whole purpose was for them to get so small that their waists were only 12 or 13 inches around, because that was supposed to be beautiful, so they could get husbands. They would say the corset was tightened a little bit more every day until finally they would have these 13-inch waists. In fact, it crushed their inner organs and no wonder they were constantly fainting and having to be resuscitated with smelling salts and whatever, because they couldn't breathe basically.

 

Others in the era of Queen Elizabeth I had pockmarks on their faces so this white makeup became very, very popular, so everybody was painting their faces white, and then they would put these black beauty spots on to cover the pockmarks. In this white makeup, which was supposed to be so beautiful, it was made of mercury so they died of mercury poisoning. It was very, very interesting. Then there were people who were the friars and the richer people of London, who throughout the ages died of gout and too much rich living; then there was the poorer population that died of starvation, anemia, and various diseases related to not having enough food, sustenance, and nutrition.

 

So it was a really interesting treatise on history and what makes our societies tick. Of course, there weren't any particular Japanese bodies in this exhibit although one would imagine if there were any Japanese ladies in it you would see the bound feet that stopped them from walking very far or running away. I'm sure that would have been extremely painful as well.

 

AN HON. MEMBER: Thanks for sharing all this.

 

MS. ZANN: You're welcome. It was a very interesting exhibit, and that exhibit brought hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people to the London museum, including me coming over from Canada. I heard about it and said I've got to go and see this, so I made sure that on my way to somewhere else that I was going that I stopped into London on the way to check out this exhibit.

 

I think anything that we can conceive of that would be of interest to the public to bring to our museum will help us and help bring tourism to Nova Scotia, but also to bring people here out of their houses because I think a lot of people seem to feel that museums are just boring - you know, you just look up at the wall and you keep walking.

 

For instance in Tatamagouche, which I know you've put some money into along the years, Creamery Square is an amazing example of a modern museum at its best. Creamery Square tells the story of the old creamery, and there are also the dinosaurs and the little creatures that lived in that area long before man, and children can push buttons and see where the footprints come up from the various different ages in different colours and different shapes. It shows you the type of dinosaur that existed and what they ate and all of that. Then you can press another button and you can see what dinosaur came after that, and then all these little patterns of footmarks are criss-crossing each other until you finally get up to modern day.

 

The children that go to see it seem to be really taken by all of these modern effects, including one part where you can press a button - you go into the boiler room, you press a button, and out comes Joe, the guy who used to work at the boiler room and kept the boiler room going and he's a hologram. So it's an actor that has been filmed talking to the audience, and he looks real, but he's a hologram. Again, the children - and even adults - just love this. I've taken my nephews and niece to see this exhibit now four times, and whenever it rains at the cottage, the kids want to go to the museum. They get to do colouring, they get to draw the dinosaurs, and they get to find out more and more information about Anna Swan, the giantess from the area.

 

These are the kinds of interactive, new, modern museums that I think bring people not only to a small area, but also bring people who live there out to these museums and they learn something, which I think is so important.

 

With that, I think I've had enough of my questions for now and I will turn it back over to the Chair. Thank you.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Lunenburg West.

 

MR. GARY RAMEY: I have just a few questions and then I'll probably hand it off to one of my colleagues; it's about museums again. Ever so briefly, could you tell me how many official provincial museums we have?

 

MR. WILSON: We have 27 provincial museum sites and then, of course, we have CMAP, which has 67 community museums within that program, but 27 total provincial museum sites. Eight of those are directly-managed museums that the province manages and 16 of those are locally managed provincial museums, and they're scattered throughout the province - Halifax, Stellarton down to Windsor and Mount Uniacke. For example, Uniacke House falls under the directly-managed museum sites. We have a wide range of managed museum sites across the province. Some, as I said, are directly managed by the province; some are locally managed. Then, of course, the community museums are mostly managed by volunteers and those who work extremely hard in their community.

 

MR. RAMEY: So the Fort Point Museum in LaHave, which is in my constituency, would be one of the community museums, is that correct?

 

MR. WILSON: Correct. Fort Point in LaHave is under CMAP and they've been there for a number of years. The CMAP program, as I said earlier in one of my responses, we have support going to some of the smallest museums for about $700 up to about $40,000 or $50,000. Fort Point Museum in LaHave receives $3,744. I know by going around the province within the last year - I haven't been to Fort Point yet, but I've been to many of them throughout the province in the last year or so - and what's astonishing and amazes me is how well they manage some of the funds. Sorry, Fort Point gets $3,400, and they do so well managing the funds that they do get from the province.

 

I've been down close to your area a number of times, but I'm hoping this summer to get to some more small community-run museums. I had the opportunity to see some of the smallest ones. For example, in the past year I was at the Whitney Pier Historical Museum. Interestingly enough, it's in an old synagogue that houses the museum. Of course, in the days when they were pumping out the steel in large amounts down there, Whitney Pier was a huge diverse-culture community and through the years, with out-migration and the closing of a lot of the plants there, they were able to take advantage of the opportunity to get the building itself.

 

I know the Speaker, who is from Whitney Pier, supports that museum immensely and we've tried to work with them in the last year on getting them some support. I think when I did the tour around the province I recognized that there was such a need for a fund to support these small museums. For example, if they needed a new roof or a new kitchen or some upgrades, with the money they get through CMAP, a lot of them just can't do the upgrades and there were no additional funds allocated within CMAP for those types of projects.

 

That's why we brought forward the Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Program so that potentially a small museum in LaHave, for example, if they're doing some renovations to their facility, now with this new fund which started April 1^st, they'll be able to ask government if they can get some support. I think it's important that we continue to support these organizations because they're important. They're important for the communities they're in, they're important to the members of the Legislature and their MLAs, but they're important to showcase what our history is to visitors and to other Nova Scotians.

 

I've been in some small communities that I had never been in and I've lived almost 39 years here in Nova Scotia and I'm amazed every time I go into a new community or go to a new museum or a library, what we have to offer. I think government recognizes that we need to continue that support and that's why the Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Program is important. We are going to be able to allocate $2.3 million in this year's budget to that fund. What we're hoping to get out of it is that it invests in community projects initiated by not-for-profit organizations. Hopefully they'll either enhance existing facilities or enhance public places. I think that's an area where we need to support them, and I look forward to those organizations getting in touch with either the department directly or their MLA and hopefully they'll bring forward their recommendations to gain access to some of the funds under that program.

 

MR. RAMEY: I thank you for that. I have a particular interest in the Fort Point Museum because a lot of people don't realize that's the oldest settlement in Canada. For a while it was the capital of New France. Champlain was there before St. Croix or Port Royal, so because it's the oldest settlement in Canada, it's a fairly significant site. If I wanted to - and pardon me for not knowing the answer to this because I haven't been to the Web site lately - but if I wanted to check that museum out and I go to your Web site, is there a listing that directs me to that or is there some kind of a tag there?

I know you have the big provincial museums but how would I know that's the oldest settlement in Canada and that there is a museum there?

 

MR. WILSON: That's one of the areas that we know that government hasn't done a great job in the past. We need to ensure that people have that one door to go through to see what we have to offer as a province. One of the things we're doing right now, and currently are doing, is revamping our Web page for the department in hopes that if you go onto the government Web site and do a search through the government Web site, it probably will bring up their site if they have one. Not all organizations have a Web site and if that's something that they want to work on down the road, we're more than happy to see if we can lend a hand with that.

 

I think it's important that we get our Web site up and running and revamped so that those links can be made. A lot of these organizations don't have that or don't have Web capability or don't have a Web site. I encourage them to do that. It often takes someone within the community that has an interest in the museum and has a knowledge of it because it's quite a complicated thing to set up a Web site for an organization, for a museum. So we're more than willing to work with them to ensure that they have all the exposure possible to visitors or to other Nova Scotians.

 

As I said, many Nova Scotians travel around the province and I think we have a lot to offer those Nova Scotians who choose to stay here and do their vacation, for example. So I think we need to take advantage of the opportunities in the future to make sure that we can promote the facilities that we have here in Nova Scotia. As I've said, we have 67 museums now in CMAP alone and we can't provide an Internet site for all these organizations, but we're more than willing to work with those who potentially have a site to ensure that they have a link if a visitor or someone is on the government Web site or the department Web site.

 

MR. RAMEY: Would the setting up of a Web site by one of these smaller CMAP museums be something that would be potentially funded if they were about to launch such a project?

 

MR. WILSON: I don't think it would fall under here because what we're trying to do is, this is kind of targeting infrastructure, so a community centre or enhancing public space, for example. I wish we could put everything under one program but really what we're targeting because there was such a need, especially in the last year or two, to ensure that organizations have the ability to get some funds for their maintenance and upkeep. Far too often that's where we fall behind, especially in museums, and even government structures are finding it difficult at times to keep a handle on the maintenance of a building. Of course, a lot of these museums are older buildings and I think that's why we came out with this program to kind of tackle that challenge and ensure that they can maintain the building they're in now. Maybe in the future, but right now that program, they couldn't get a Web design, for example, through that.

 

MR. RAMEY: Well, just off on a slightly different topic then - thank you for that - do we have a ballpark figure for what we think the cultural sector generates in dollar value in the province? I mean I realize it would be hard to gauge that.

 

MR. WILSON: It's an old figure, we think it's around $1.3 billion and creates roughly 28,000 indirect and direct jobs but as I said earlier - there was a question earlier about that - it's old data, and with the restructuring of the department, we have someone who's going to be designated to look at the analysis and look at the information and the data we have to give more of a true picture of the impact that the creative economy - for example, arts and culture - has on the economy of the province. I think if we have that data and it's more current, it's easier for me, for example, to go to my colleagues in other departments or the government to say we need to do some investment in a certain project, for example. If you had the data to show that there's a good return for that investment, then it's a little easier to make that investment; you're not speculating, you're not wondering what the result will be.

 

On a more national scale or at the national level, the Ministers of Culture and Heritage across the country have talked about this at our last federal-provincial-territorial meeting, and we have a satellite account that's set up that all provinces are buying into to try to get that data so that provinces know exactly what the impact is of the arts and culture sector in everyone's region. I think Newfoundland and Labrador has done quite a bit of work on trying to bring forward data and it's significant. Like I say, $1.3 billion is an old number. We're not sure, I think it could be larger than that, but we know that the creative sector and the creative economy play an important role in the economy of Nova Scotia and we need to strengthen that. That's why we've come forward with some of our initiatives in the last year with our five-point plan that we released last year that we can, hopefully, promote and support and really increase the arts and culture sector.

 

We created an interdepartmental committee where we have different department heads meeting almost monthly throughout the last year and that's what they discuss. They ensure that each department is aware of potential investments in the creative economy or in the arts and culture sector so that when other departments are making decisions or coming out with a policy or changing a program that they might have, that they keep in mind that it needs to be open to different areas of investment in arts and culture that they can have the opportunity to invest and get that support from other departments.

 

No question, Economic and Rural Development and Tourism is our lead department in economic investment in the province through the Jobs Fund, through the Economic Investment Committee, which I'm happy to be chairing and hopefully have some influence on some of the projects we see and some of the investments we're going to be doing in the future. We want to be accountable and the Economic Investment Committee is a result of us being more accountable, ensuring that the investments we make through the Jobs Fund, and other funds through Economic and Rural Development and Tourism, through Innovacorp, or through Nova Scotia Business Inc. are the most appropriate ones. If we can guarantee or ensure that when our bureaucrats, our ministers, or anybody who works or provides a program that they recognize that arts and culture could be at the table and we could benefit as a province if we have investment opportunities.

 

I think it's an exciting time for the sector; we have built a foundation that will benefit the sector in the years to come. As I said before, we just started working and in our five-point plan that we released last year, we have almost accomplished every point in that plan, like the creation of the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council which will advise government on future policy and cultural strategy. We also have the interdepartmental committee that has already started to meet; we have Status of the Artist legislation, which we introduced and have going through the system now; we have Arts Nova Scotia, the independent body that will oversee funding to artists and small organizations; and, of course, ensuring that our Web presence is responding and able to support the arts and culture sector, potentially having new up-and-coming artists' work showcased on our department's Web site, for example.

 

We've moved forward with that plan and I look forward to finishing all the points and then going to the next project and moving forward with other initiatives that I think the sector wants to see government move on.

 

MR. RAMEY: Well, I couldn't agree more that I think for a long time, probably in this province and maybe other provinces, too, for that matter, the arts were considered as something kind of nice to have available but I don't think were recognized as the economic driver that I believe they really are. I know you mentioned that there is older data as to what the true value is. Do you know in that older data if they have a sector - like the film industry, the music industry or live theatre - that seems to generate the most revenue within that envelope, or is there no such data?

 

MR. WILSON: That's hard to pull out, that's the challenge in trying to really get those figures. No question, we have a strong, vibrant film industry which as a government we're ensuring they have support from the government through the Film Industry Tax Credit, for example. When you have a project or film being produced in Nova Scotia, you can definitely see the spinoff, so in that area of trying to see what the impact is, you can kind of figure it out a little easier. But as a whole, the arts and culture sector itself is very difficult because a lot of artists are in small communities and so the data is hard to collect. But it is important data.

 

I don't think we can really say which genre or which area within the arts and culture sector produces the best investment or gives back the best investment, but I think as we move forward and we start to get up-to-date information, we might be able to really narrow down where future investments should be so we can get a good return, so it can really impact the economy of the province.

 

MR. RAMEY: I'm looking across at Mr. MacMaster and I think this question that I'm going to ask may apply to people like him as well. In some of the small communities - I'm thinking of the community of Petite Rivière in particular; it's now a designated spot for very good musicians to come because they've promoted the music industry there. Just as an example, in this one fire hall in Petite Rivière, they have had Matt Mays, Garrett Mason, Matt Andersen, Charlie A'Court, The Mellowtones, the Hupman Brothers, Joel Plaskett, Theresa Malenfant, the Waterstreet Blues Band, John Campbelljohn - Matt Minglewood was there last Saturday - I mean everybody who plays music in the Maritimes comes to Petite Rivière. And every New Year's they hire my band to play for the New Year's dance. I'm not sure why that is, but they do. It's a wonderful thing.

 

The question I was going to ask is, I realize it's a fire hall and I realize that fire halls come under a different realm than your department but if a fire hall is being used extensively as a music venue - this is a music venue, not anything else, just music - are there ways that your department can recognize that by contributing funds to them if they need to have some work done to the venue? That's really not a fair question in a way, but it's one I had to ask because I know somebody would expect me to.

 

MR. WILSON: It depends on the application. What we're trying to do is not be the avenue for another level of government to withdraw some of their funding. If a building is owned by the municipality, for example, they won't be able to get any funding through this. If it's a private-sector or privately-owned building they won't be able to - it has to be a not-for-profit organization.

 

We have some omissions that will reject an application; one is the Legions because there is an actual Legion Capital Assistance Program so we don't want to duplicate an existing program. Also, educational institutes, if it's a school, for example, those levels of government should be at the table providing support. Religious sanctuaries, you can't ask to renovate the inside of a sanctuary but if that organization has a community hall that is used by the community, we'll look at that and they can seek some support through that.

 

MR. RAMEY: I really just have two questions left and then I'll share some of the time that we have left with my other colleagues. I'd be remiss if I didn't ask a question about the Bluenose II. We all know it's a Canadian icon but it's also in Lunenburg and that's very close to where I am. Could you give us a quick update on the status of the reconstruction of the Bluenose II? I've been there a couple of times but not recently.

 

MR. WILSON: It's progressing quite nicely. It's amazing the work that's being done down there. It's fitting that we are talking about arts and culture, because the craftsmanship the workers are using and the results we're seeing down there is amazing. I think it will benefit Lunenburg and the boat-building industry here in Nova Scotia. Of course, we've had three companies that came together to work on the reconstruction, or the refit, of the Bluenose II and they were competitors at one point. So I think with them coming together, it really shows how important the Bluenose II is to those companies, and to Lunenburg and the province. We're getting close to hopefully seeing it in the water for some sea trials this summer. I know that I was with you and our colleague, Pam Birdsall, to put in the whiskey plank, which was an amazing thing to see. Unfortunately, we had to lose some good whiskey on the boat.

MR. RAMEY: I noticed that.

 

MR. WILSON: And I think some of the workers there didn't like that we used it in that manner but it was a great tradition to have and I think everybody in Nova Scotia should be proud. We have a live Web site or a live Web feed on the construction site that people from all over the world are going to, to see how the reconstruction is going, and we've had people from across the country who have called the local Tim Hortons and have sent coffee down on a regular basis because they're sitting there watching the men and women working on it.

 

It's just an amazing project and I think the Lunenburg Shipyard Alliance, which is doing the work, of course the three companies that have come together to work on it, the Lunenburg Shipyard Alliance, includes Covey Island Boatworks, Lunenburg Industrial Foundry & Engineering, and Snyder's Shipyard Limited. It's amazing to see the work that they're doing and how it has progressed over the last year or so. We're hoping to get it back, like I say, in the water by this summer for some sea trials, and I think it's going to be a legacy that will live on for many years. They're really doing a good job at ensuring that that vessel will be sailing for a number of years into the future. I think I was told at one point it won't need a significant refit like we're doing now for at least another 40 to 50 years. So I'll be in my 90s then; I don't know how old the member will be.

 

MR. RAMEY: I'll be pushing up daisies, I think, at that point. (Laughter)

 

MR. WILSON: I'll be in my 90s and maybe I'll read in the paper that they're doing another refit, but it's an amazing project and we should be very proud. We should be very proud of the workers who are working on it currently and they're doing an amazing job. I was down there for a tour not too long ago, and I stopped to talk to a couple of the workers. One young guy who had come back from out West and started to work on it - which was amazing because, you know, no question, we know in the last number of years we've seen so many of our young people going out West to work but here's a young gentleman who came back, I think he told me he was living in Winnipeg - he came to Lunenburg, he has bought a house in Lunenburg, and is working on the project. It's my hope that the Lunenburg Shipyard Alliance will get the recognition that they deserve and get future work. I think there's a lot of interest from around the world for it, the work that they've done so far, and I know that they're being recognized immensely.

 

I know the member mentioned a little while earlier in his comments about that cluster down in Petite Rivière of musicians. We have that happening all across the province. There are little clusters of artists, of companies that are working, and I recently was in Cape Breton in the last year and I was down just past Tarbot, near Englishtown, the Englishtown ferry, you go across and there's a little cluster of artists that are providing metalwork items and there's a mouth-blown crystal place. It's just amazing to see, you know, in a very rural part of the province this cluster of artists that are doing amazing work and we have that happening all over the province. As I said earlier, it doesn't have to happen in downtown Sydney or it doesn't have to happen in downtown Halifax to be a great contributor to the economy of Nova Scotia. I think as a government, if we can continue to support those clusters of artists and individuals and companies, then we'll be better off.

 

I was recently contacted by another ironwork company that just opened up in Whycocomagh - ironically, they took over the old fire station - and I've committed to the owner that the next time I'm down and drive through, I'll stop in and see his FireHouse Ironworks, I think is what it's called. So I look forward to stopping in. I think it's great to see - here's a young entrepreneur who started a business in a remote area, a rural area, who is taking advantage of maybe an opportunity to have his business in an old firehouse. I think it's a great example of the potential that we have in the province but of who we have here in Nova Scotia willing to, you know, work to provide and stimulate the economy of Nova Scotia.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Minister, we've just hit the three-hour mark. I don't know if you need or want a break? We're going to keep going, okay, minister, thank you. Mr. Ramey, continue.

 

MR. RAMEY: Yes, just getting back to the longevity issue of the Bluenose II, I think you said 40 years, so I'll be 104 and I'll be in pretty good shape so I'm expecting that you and I will go and have a toddy on that day - that's my plan anyway. You know, I always think the glass is half full, you know what I'm saying?

 

I was wondering, just in relation to the Web site on the Bluenose II, I know literally thousands of people have been tuned into that. Do you have any idea how many hits you've had on that?

 

MR. WILSON: I think we're into the hundreds of thousands and, no question, I think when this project is done we can utilize that data to just showcase the interest in the Bluenose II. So I don't have it right on me specifically how many but there's a lot. As I've said, I remember seeing at one point - I think if you go to the site, it actually tells you and shows you who's tuning in at that point in time. I know early on when it first started there was a pop-up from Kuwait, for example, as far away as Kuwait, and all over the world.

 

So it's amazing to see the ability to have that connection even though you're not in the province and more recent, of course, was our connection to the Titanic and the 100^th Anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic. One of the things we did do is to have a live Web cast of the ceremony, the commemorative event that we put on in Halifax, and we had people from all over the place tuning in.

 

A large number of people have an interest in the Titanic and for us to be able to tell our connection to that tragedy was important. I think we did a respectful job at showcasing our connection to the Titanic. Of course, I know most members know that it was Nova Scotia - it was Halifax that assisted in the recovery efforts. We had a couple of our cable ships leave Halifax Harbour to go out and support the recovery efforts of the over 1,500 people who died and, of course, 150 of those are still laid to rest in Nova Scotia. I think that forever connects us with that tragedy and the interest around the world is just unbelievable.

 

I think working with the Titanic 100 Society - Ken Pinto is the director - I think Nova Scotians could be proud to say that we did it in the manner we did, that we had interest from all over the world in media attention. A few days before our event on Saturday, I was at the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic and there was a German television crew coming in who were trying to capture coverage of some of the passengers on one of the cruise ships who were dressed in period costume. Saturday at midnight I did a live interview with a BBC radio station in London which was broadcasting all night about the Titanic and Halifax's connection to the Titanic, and they said they weren't aware of the strong connection Nova Scotia had. I think we did a good job with that.

 

Of course, Saturday's event had two different events. We had the gathering which started down on the waterfront with a procession up to Parade Square where we had the Titanic Eve - Night of the Bells which saw about 20 performers play through the night and, of course, we had Gordon Pinsent who was able to join us to give some narration to our connection and the history of the Titanic, and it was something to see. It was a little chillier later in the night but I heard it from a lot of people who reflected back thinking how cold it would have been that night out in the North Atlantic. I think we did a good job, I'd like to commend Titanic 100 for the work that they did.

 

What was amazing to see was the volunteers that came out. I talked to many of them who were working all over Halifax and they were more than happy to be involved in this event. Many of them worked on different events through the years: a lot of them worked on the Canada Games that we just hosted last winter and some of them worked on the JUNOs when we hosted them a number of years ago. It's amazing to see how ready Nova Scotians are to volunteer when we put on events like the one we had the other night, and then of course Sunday morning we had the commemorative ceremony at the Fairview Lawn Cemetery and I think that went over well.

 

I think Nova Scotians should be proud of how we can put on events, proud of our history and culture, and I think through our department and the investments we're making we can continue to showcase that and show people what we have to offer here in the province.

 

MR. RAMEY: I agree, I thought the coverage was extremely tasteful. When we talk about going to sea and the cable ships and rescuing people, I think that a lot of people didn't miss the fact that not so long ago we were out in ships again with the Swissair disaster rescuing people, as well, and people pitching in to do whatever they could to try to make a horrible situation just a little more bearable.

 

This is my final question, Mr. Chairman, and then you can go on to someone else, but my final one is regarding Grand Pré in the Valley. I know you know that Lunenburg is a United Nations World Heritage Site and it's my understanding that Grand Pré was in the works as well. Do you know where we stand with that right now?

 

MR. WILSON: As I said earlier we have so much to offer in the province and what we're trying to do is ensuring that we showcase our rich, diverse culture or heritage. If it's our Acadian roots, African Nova Scotian roots, Gaelic roots, or Aboriginal roots, with Grand Pré we were very supportive of the initiative of them being designated as a UNESCO World Heritage site. Right from the start we were committed to that process. Earlier, I think it was mid last year, we came out with our financial support for the designation. We put $2.5 million in trust to support that bid so if they're successful with that we will be there for the next 10 years.

 

We have a similar arrangement with Joggins that recently, a number of years ago, received the UNESCO designation and we support them at the amount of $250,000 a year for 10 years. We thought we should really show our commitment to Grand Pré so that's why we created the trust and put the $2.5 million in it. I was very proud to - it was one of my first announcements as the new minister of this department to go down to Grand Pré and I was joined by Minister MacKay to show both provincial and federal support but also it kind of started me on practising my French and really trying to make sure that I use my French as much as I can.

 

We'll find out later this summer - I think it's in July - when they make their announcements. We're all hopeful, I think Grand Pré has a lot to offer their bid and what they provided UNESCO was, I think, the best possible delivery of what we have here in Nova Scotia, and hopefully we'll be successful on that. I guess we'll have to wait until July to find out if that's true. Even before the UNESCO bid Grand Pré is a great area of our province. I believe Grand Pré is in the Minister of Education's riding, and there is a lot of interest to ensure that government continues to support Grand Pré. It's a federal site, but I think it's important for the province to be there. That's why we committed the money to the trust and we look forward to a successful announcement in July.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Ramey, is that it for your questioning?

 

MR. RAMEY: Thank you very much.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

 

MR. LEONARD PREYRA: It is a pleasure to have another opportunity to ask some questions. The last time I was up I talked about the consultative process and the change in the way decisions are made in the department, particularly as it relates to the development of the five-point plan. I did want to use this opportunity to give a shout-out to a few people who have met with me on a regular basis. I know the deputy has seen a lot of them over the last few years, since her appointment. I think she was first appointed early in 2010.

 

I did want to acknowledge that Andrew Terris, Chris Majka, Robin Metcalfe, and Leah Hamilton have been really good at educating me on arts and cultural issues. I know that they have met with the deputy on a number of occasions, and I think very soon after she was appointed, we met with her at the office on Granville Street. They were very impressed with her knowledge of the issues and her willingness to consider change in cultural policy, particularly as it related to Arts Nova Scotia and the development of a cultural strategy that really listened to artists and recognized the contributions that artists could make, so I want to give a shout-out to those few people. There are others and I've forgotten them, but I also want to acknowledge the deputy and the role that she has played in really putting flesh on the bones of what we were thinking about as a really meaningful and effective consultative process.

 

I want to talk a little bit about the Halifax Central Library and the consultative process that led to the building of that library. I know that it has been a very long process and the final design of that library was so far removed from the original. I think in large part it was the result of the builders really genuinely consulting with the community and coming up with something that the community wanted. The library committee is to be commended for establishing that process.

 

I really want to go to a question that I know is not directly in the minister's area of responsibility, but certainly it's something that's very close to my heart and very close to a number of communities that are served, and that is the recent announcement from the federal government that they're not going to be supporting the CAP sites. CAP sites have been one of the most thoughtful additions to our community and I think there is a sense that everyone is wired; everyone has a phone or a laptop and we don't really need these sites.

 

I know in my constituency, for example, we have a couple of senior manors and it's just wonderful to see seniors uploading and downloading photographs of themselves or their grandchildren. They don't know how to do it, but people at the CAP sites help them. For a lot of these seniors - particularly, as you know, a lot of families move these days - it is their link with their extended families and their grandchildren. CAP sites are the place where you can permit that little bit of interaction that they're allowed. Certainly the libraries are the place where some of these seniors can go. It's the only place where they can get access not only to a computer and to a link, but to get access to people who can help them use that.

 

I'm happy that the department is going to continue to support libraries as such and that money for CAP sites has remained unchanged, I'm assuming for the moment, since much of the money that we had committed was committed as part of a shared agreement with the federal government, but I do want to - and I know the minister knows this because he comes from a constituency that's very similar to mine which has a lot of seniors and doesn't have people who really need to be connected to community in a meaningful way. So I would like to encourage the department and the minister to think carefully about the role CAP sites serve in our community and what the implications would be for not supporting them.

MR. WILSON: Mr. Chairman, no question, I think the Internet is so important. I talked about it earlier in questions that have been asked by members. It's an unfortunate decision by the federal government. They provide the funding for the CAP sites. No question, I've been to many CAP sites around the province. A lot of them are housed within libraries, for example. We do not fund CAP sites directly, but under the funding we give libraries, they have grants of over $300,000 - I think $310,000 - to libraries to pay for the connection to the Internet. So we cover that cost. We covered it in last year's budget, and we have continued to cover it in this year's budget. Not all of them are CAP sites, many of them are, but I think we're doing our part in ensuring libraries have the funds available to connect to the Internet and cover that charge.

 

So it's unfortunate the federal government has seen or has chosen to kind of hit CAP sites and cut the funding to them, you know, I'm a bit upset on the manner of how they did it and how quick they did it. It's unfortunate. We often see when other levels of government - it could be municipal or federal government - make decisions like that that those organizations come to the province to see if we can compensate for that. It's no secret the last number of years have been very challenging in our province and in the country as a whole and financially in the economy and how our finances are in the province. So we're kind of challenged currently on adding new programs, for example. It's very difficult. We are doing it in strategic areas but to kind of compensate for other cuts from other levels of government is a challenge, and currently we're not at the point where we can pick up what's lost with cuts like the CAP sites.

 

So I think that Nova Scotians should know that we're there to support Internet service through our libraries, through the fund that we have of $310,000. Libraries are a key component to our department. They're really important to communities across the province; Halifax, no question, the largest population area of the province, the new library will be well received, I think, by the public.

 

The municipality is the lead on the construction of the new library. We, of course, provide the provincial grants to regional library boards across the province and there are a number of the boards, nine boards all together across the province, and last year we were able to sustain the amount of money that goes towards supports, and this year I'm glad to say that we did the same. There won't be any reduction in funding to libraries for the 2012-13 budget, and just for the member's interest, we give a total of $14,163,300 to library boards and the Halifax Regional Library Board receives $4.8 million of that $14 million.

 

One of the challenges within the library system, of course, is the delivery of library services and the current formula that is used to calculate how much the library boards receive is a formula that's based on population, which we all know is not the most appropriate way to do it. It was the way that the regional library boards chose to be funded but what happens now, as we've seen in many communities with the out-migration in some of our rural communities, is that they're losing residents or they're shifting to more populated areas, and unfortunately the system we have currently that money should travel with them to where they are residing.

 

We are going to review the formula; we're going to work with the library boards to see if there is a fairer way to provide funding to each of their boards, because I think it's important that I've gone around the province, travelled to many libraries, especially in rural communities. It's an important service to the local residents, especially our aging population, you mentioned it's so interesting to see older individuals, or older residents, getting involved in the Internet and learning how to be connected to the World Wide Web.

 

A lot of the smaller regional libraries offer delivery of books to those who might be restricted on their mobility, and there's a cost to that and many of the small libraries are struggling to provide that service. We're hoping that we can look at and review it, and if there's a better way of providing the funding to them, then we'll do that. This is directly in consultation with the regional boards. We want them to come to us to see what can change to make sure that they can continue to provide library service across the province, and I think it's important that communities have access to a library.

 

I was fortunate to be down in Bridgetown, I think it was this past summer, for the opening of a new library there which was great. The community was ecstatic to have a new library there and we continue to have libraries renovate and build new spaces. As I said earlier, most libraries have partners within the municipality who oversee the capital costs. We're on the side of the management of the libraries and the funding to that and we'll continue to support libraries. As I said in this year's budget, we maintained the funding that they're going to receive in the upcoming year and I look forward to working with them in the future on any changes we might need to make to hopefully allow them to provide good services in the areas that they provide service in.

 

MR. PREYRA: I'm very glad to hear that. One other thing that I should say is when I was growing up we really didn't have a lot of money and the bookmobile was another one of those things that I have a much greater appreciation now because the CAP sites are a modern version of the bookmobile that bring these cultural assets and this information to the attention of people who might not be served otherwise.

 

I also wanted to move on to say a little bit about some of our museums in my constituency. Libraries help tell the story about our historical and cultural and social development. So, too, do the museums and I know the minster has been very involved in recent days in things relating to the Titanic. I must say when I first heard from Ken Pinto - I should give a shout-out to Ken Pinto, a force of nature in his own right and certainly someone who once he has a project in mind, uses every bit of energy he has to pursuit it. I want to give him credit in particular and his Titanic 100 committee for being such a driving force behind it.

 

Certainly one of the things - in fact, it's a shame but most of us don't realize it - is you have to learn from people abroad and one day a couple from England came, they were outside in the rain, outside of my office - as you know, Mr. Minister, my office is in George Wright's house; George Wright was one of the two people who were killed on the Titanic - and I said would you like to come in, and they said yes. So they came in and we had a cup of tea and I talked to them about the office. They were talking to me about George Wright and telling me about how important Halifax was to their family.

 

I think we sometimes forget our own place in the world and our own accomplishments, particularly when it comes to our love affair with the sea - you know, we live by the sea and we die by the sea. The sea is also something that connects us to other places and it is very much part of the culture. I think one of the things we learned over the last few days with the Titanic is that we do have a history that we can be very proud of and it's one of those continuing themes that, you know, in times of crisis, we kind of lean on each other and we ride to the rescue.

 

Museums, of course, tell that story, and I know over the last few years I've spent a lot of time at the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic. There have been exhibits there but probably the best exhibit they have there, I should say, is Sable Island - Graveyard of the Atlantic. I would encourage anyone who is at all interested in museums to go and see that exhibit because it tells about a part of my constituency that is part of that history of Nova Scotia, and someday I hope to visit it. But if you can't visit it, the next best thing is the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic and it talks about our relationship with the ocean and, you know, the fact that we've drawn our livelihood from it, and it has been a great help and sometimes a great hindrance to things that we've tried to do.

 

The Maritime Museum also had a great exhibit there of the St. Louis, another story that I knew nothing about until they had that exhibit that talked about the Jews who were expelled or threatened in Germany after Kristallnacht. They got aboard the St. Louis and they sailed all around our shores and they were not allowed to land here. Eventually they went back to mainland Europe and many of them were killed subsequently in the Holocaust. Those stories, too, need to be told and that's why museums exist if only so that we don't repeat those mistakes.

 

I'm glad to see the minister talking about museums. I wonder if you could say a little bit more about where the department is going in terms of protecting museums and also helping people tell those stories. I feel privileged here in my constituency because I think I have more than any other constituency, but I would like to know what is being done for other smaller museums in Nova Scotia, in helping those little museums know a little bit more about their history, of telling their story and passing that information on to future generations?

 

MR. WILSON: Before I go on to the museums, I know you were on a couple of different topics there. Going back to libraries just for a moment, I know you're very supportive of the construction of the new library here in Halifax but we recognize library service is important, especially in rural communities as I mentioned earlier. That's why we invested $200,000 and provided that to the library board to kind of oversee and do a study to try to see if they could find some efficiencies so that they could reinvest in providing rural library service. So we were very happy to provide that $200,000.

 

We recently announced a joint project with the Department of Justice where my department invested $12,500 for a new vehicle for a great project called Adopt-a-Library, which the RCMP have been very intimate with and created. Recently down in Pictou County, I was able to take a tour of their kind of central area with the Minister of Justice on the Adopt-a-Library Literacy Program. They provide books for organizations all across the province. If they need assistance, they give them a call. It's not just them, you know, providing books that might have been thrown away or old editions; they're current books that publishers send to them. They get donations from a wide variety of donors and so we're very glad to be able to marry up with another department to ensure that they can continue that important project. I think it is important work that they do and I think we need to support them in any way we can.

 

When it comes to our museums, as I said earlier in one of my responses, we have 67 community museums that are under CMAP. We provide almost a million dollars in that program to assist museums in providing a place for their local residents or fellow Nova Scotians or visitors to come and see what their history is. There are always challenges, especially in smaller rural communities, when we see these organizations depend on volunteers a lot of the time who are not paid and, of course, who work extremely hard to continue to have a museum in their community.

 

We recognize CMAP needs to have a review done. We're doing that now to see if we can make some changes to give even more support to community museums. The department is always willing to work with the museums if there are some questions they need answered or if there is something they aren't sure about on the business plan that they have for that museum. We're more than willing to work with them.

 

You mentioned the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic and we have some great exhibits that have been in there over the last number of years. Of course, the Titanic is always a big part of that museum, but more recently - I think it was last Thursday - we opened up an exhibit on cable ships. Of course our tie to the Titanic story is that we had two cable ships, the Mackay-Bennett and the Minia. The exhibit shows not only the connection of the grim work that they had to do. It's not always easy to deal with a tragedy or disaster like the sinking of the Titanic, but we had men at the time - because it was all-men crews - we had men and women onshore who were on those ships, who went out and supported the recovery efforts.

 

The exhibit down at the museum shows that connection, but also shows the hard life of someone who may have worked on a cable ship. It didn't look like it was an exciting profession, but hard profession. Men went out working on the cables that stretch across the Atlantic. I couldn't imagine some of the conditions that they worked under, but they were more than willing at the time, 100 years ago, to go out and assist after the sinking of the Titanic.

It's good for us to be able to show our history, our culture through exhibits like the cable ship exhibit. The curators and the staff that we have working at our museums across the province, even the community museums or the government-run museums, are amazing. They're very passionate about their work, they're very professional, and many of them work for a long time. We just recently had a few retirements who worked 30, 35, 40 years providing their expertise to the museum system here in Nova Scotia. They're very passionate about their work and I commend them for all that hard work that they do.

 

We try to ensure that we have turnover in our exhibits. We try to ensure that we can capture the interest of not only our own local residents, but visitors who come to Nova Scotia. I think we're doing a really good job at that. We mentioned T. Rex Sue at the Museum of Natural History, which really surpassed our expectations with visitation. It's amazing what a bunch of bones of a dinosaur can do. It wasn't just the young people - I shouldn't say a bunch of bones, but that's exactly what it was, I guess. I was amazed at the interest, not only from young people but older people.

 

I think it was actually my first event that I kicked off after being sworn in as minister; last January was the opening of the T. Rex Sue exhibit, and it was amazing to see the interest and the people from all over who came to see that. Now we have Science on a Sphere - if you haven't had a chance to go down, Our Amazing World it's called - and it's amazing if you haven't had an opportunity to go down to have a look at it.

 

It's quite interesting on what it can show; we have a lot of interest around Nova Scotia and around Canada for being innovative with the technology but also providing it. So I think it's important that we continue to have that turnover on exhibits and make sure that they're current but not forgetting about our story and our history, making sure that content is still there. I think museums across the province do an amazing job at doing that, whether it's our villages, Sherbrooke Village; all over the province, it's amazing to see what we have to offer to Nova Scotians.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Minister, there is less than 25 minutes remaining in your time. How much time do you want for your closing statement?

 

MR. WILSON: Five minutes would be good, but I think we have more questions.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh yes, but sometimes a minister wants ample time for a closing statement, I'm just checking with you. Mr. Preyra, you have the floor.

 

MR. PREYRA: I think one thing we share with the Opposition is the opportunity to ask questions of the minister and I'm happy to take advantage of that opportunity. I do want to agree with you on the Museum of Natural History, as well; in fact, I know when my kids were growing up that was a great destination for us, Gus the turtle was there.

 

AN HON. MEMBER: He's still there.

 

MR. PREYRA: Yes, but I mean when he was little he was still there, when they were little he was a younger version of him; a younger version of Gus was seen by a younger version of me. The butterfly display was always a great event and, of course, the whales. I know to some of us it's just bones but the bones also tell the story of our history, and our natural history is just as important as our social histories, particularly as we're looking at things like climate change and other effects on just the way in which our climate is evolving.

 

I also want to say that Chris Majka, as I have mentioned him earlier, he is also very active as a scientist. Several years ago he engaged me in a discussion about the brown spruce longhorn beetle which is very much . . .

 

MR. HOWARD EPSTEIN: Tetropium fuscum.

 

MR. PREYRA: Tetropium fuscum - the member for Halifax Chebucto knows the Latin word phrase, he's just showing off.

 

But yes, there is a lot of very practical work that's also being done there. I know my son found a bone in the tidal flats one day and I convinced him that they were dinosaur bones. We took them to the Museum of Natural History, and the museum staff were kind enough to actually look at it and tell us that they were bones from a pig that had been slaughtered many years ago. But while it lasted it was a great story, so I do understand what the minister is saying about the Museum of Natural History.

 

I do want to move on a little bit to talk about the dance community in Halifax Citadel-Sable Island. Dance is one of those arts that's really neglected and doesn't get as much attention as some of the other art forms but I know that there are a number of dance groups that are located in my constituency. Live Art, for example - Gay Hauser, Paul Caskey, Sheilagh Hunt, and Kenetic Studio - it's just wonderful to go out to performances. One of the things that they've been advocating for, for a number of years now, is a performance base or a better space for artists. I know you have talked about the Legacy Centre and I want to use the minute or two that I have on this subject to encourage the minister to give it some serious thought, because I know that it is the kind of the thing that would be of great benefit to the community and also of benefit to the dance community in particular.

 

Another art form, a cultural form, that's really not that well recognized in our community is the book-publishing industry. I think of all of our cultural products, if you can call it that, the book industry is undergoing such dramatic change in terms of the new social media, in terms of what publishing means and how information is disseminated and how we recognize the value of books. I do want to use this opportunity to give a shout-out to Peggy Walt, Heather Mackenzie, Heather Fegan, and others, who have spent, it seems to be, just a labour of love because I'm sure there's not much financial reward in it, promoting books - again, coming back to tell our story, and encouraging local artists and making sure that important parts of our history are not lost.

I wonder if you could say a little bit about books and publishing in particular and what the department sees in terms of the future of the whole book-publishing industry in general, but also in terms of how we can support our local authors and how we can find better ways to tell our stories.

 

MR. WILSON: No question, we've supported the publishing industry for a number of years under our Culture division. We have a program that we assist in and they apply through the grant program and then throughout the year, of course, there are certain times of the year where we award those grants and we continue to do that. I think it's an important part of it.

 

I think there's always the debate; recently, just in my own community, there was a used book store that just closed down, unfortunately, it was there for a number of years and it was just more challenging for them to try to compete. You hate to see that; I know a lot of people still like to have the hard copy of a book in their hands, but I think our libraries have really moved forward with technology and offering the Internet and offering ebook readers, for example, in our libraries across the province, knowing that there is that interest for change. But I think there's always the opportunity to have the best of both worlds when it comes to books and libraries and reading in the province. That's why we invest what we do through our grant program to ensure that we support that.

 

Under this year's budget, 2012-13, the funds allocated towards publishing are $166,000 so I think it shows a commitment on our part to continue that and support the industry. Recently I was in Lunenburg with our colleague, Pam Birdsall, who took me to one of the publishers just after we did a tour of the Bluenose II. We supported them in some recent projects that they had and they're very much appreciative of the government's commitment to their industry and we'll continue to see that.

 

MR. PREYRA: I believe I have five minutes left, Mr. Chairman?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: You actually have 10 or 12 minutes and then there's the minister's closing.

 

MR. PREYRA: The minister asked for five minutes, I believe. If I could, I'd like to use this to make a couple of pitches on behalf - I know I've been pitching for a while but one of the interesting things, again in terms of devolution of federal responsibility, one of the things that seems to be happening across the province is the devolution of lighthouses. I know recently there was an item in the paper on Peggy's Cove and establishing local groups to support this. This probably isn't in the minister's area of responsibility, but I would like to make a pitch anyway.

 

The lighthouses in my constituency are just as much cultural icons as they are tourist destinations. In particular, I'm thinking of the lighthouse on Georges Island, which has a very long history and is part of the original building of the City of Halifax itself. The lighthouse on Sable Island is not as much of a cultural icon. It has been changed over the years and I'm not sure that there can be a stronger case made for it, but certainly the lighthouse on Georges Island is an important part of our history and I would encourage the minister to use his good offices in speaking with other members of our government, both in Nova Scotia and at the federal level when measures are being taken to consider which lighthouses to protect, that we could seriously consider the role of the lighthouse at Georges Island.

 

In a similar vein, my constituency also has a number of graveyards and again part of the original burial ground for - including the Old Burying Ground in Halifax. I'm surprised that the burial place for Joseph Howe is not as well maintained or as set out. It would seem to me it's fairly inexpensive to have a Province of Nova Scotia flag, for example, flying over there that talks about how important a contribution that Joseph Howe made to our province.

 

I get a lot of visitors from Ontario and they ask about places and they're surprised when they go to a place like Joseph Howe's burial ground. One of our fathers of Confederation, for example - those places are just not marked out. We ourselves treat it as just kind of passé, but it would be an important part of acknowledging some of the contributions of people who were there at the creation and helped build this province.

 

I know I can go on, Mr. Chairman, and I will, but just one more thing since I appear to have two minutes. You have the Nova Scotia In-Water Boat Show, and a couple of years ago I had the pleasure of looking at some of these. It struck me how much talent we have in terms of craftsmanship. I know that people look at our boats as things that just did some work: they plied the waters, they fished, and they went out to war. They created beautiful ships and boats like the Bluenose and the Queen Elizabeth, which recently called - we didn't build it, but certainly Cunard started here. I'm wondering if we have that kind of approach to artistic craft and design, because I know we support a lot of other activities relating to design. Is there a design component, particularly, when it applies to things like beautiful wooden craft that recognizes those as cultural products just as much as they are economic or tourism or some other kind of product?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, we have definite cultural industry programs. I have a whole list of the different requests for funding that we have, and I have to say it's very diverse and has quite a large range of disciplines - if that's what you want to call it - on whom we support and what we support.

 

I know the member mentioned cemeteries. Cemeteries have always been a difficult one to try to support and seek funding for. Often it's not the government that has started these cemeteries; it's churches. Of course, a lot of churches originally played an instrumental role in having them in communities and a lot of them are abandoned so we're really trying to have the ability to support them. Through our Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Program we can look at potentially supporting some of these cemeteries or if there is an organization, really what it needs to take is a community to come together and say this is an important part of our heritage, it's an important part of our community and I'm more than willing to look at that through this program. Often cemeteries are a forgotten area of how we can see how our heritage and culture is.

 

I had the opportunity this past summer to go to Normandy, to go to Saint-Aubin-sur-Mer - it's part of Juno Beach. When I was there one of the locals wanted me to go up to the Abbey of Ardenne where there our soldiers tried to liberate after the D-Day invasion. They were murdered by an SS group of German soldiers; they were all walked out of the abbey and executed along a wall. We have a close tie with Nova Scotians - Charles Doucette, I believe is his name, a First Nations soldier from the Membertou region, was murdered and buried there. It's not recognized as one of the overseas sites that the Canadian Government will look after, so unfortunately it's kind of rundown a bit.

 

I was talking with a few different groups to see if we could do something there where we should have a Nova Scotia flag flying next to the monument that's there. They have a mural of all of the soldiers that were murdered there and it's an example of some of the neglect over the years. Of course, government can't fund them all but it's an interesting point in our history and I think areas like that - and, of course, we have many, many more of them here in Nova Scotia - can play a significant contribution to telling our story of who we had here in Nova Scotia, who played an important role in how our province has progressed.

 

Hopefully under this Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Program, if there's an organization within a community that wants to enhance open space like a potentially abandoned cemetery, then we're more than willing to look at it and hopefully lend some support. Unfortunately, we do have limited resources for the program, and I know we won't be able to fix them all but we'll definitely try our best to support them.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Preyra, time for another question or two.

 

MR. PREYRA: I do have a couple of questions. I want to come to the question of gaming; this is something that has recently been transferred to the department. I know that there are a number of other stakeholders involved and some of it interprovincial but I wonder if you could say something about initiatives that we have taken to limit the harm that VLTs do, and the expansion of VLTs and other forms of gaming.

 

It seems like before we were elected there was just a tremendous expansion in gaming and we looked at that as an easy way to raise revenues, but more and more we've come to see it as something that requires a little bit more of a balanced approach. On one hand it's a form of recreation, but on the other hand it also has pretty harmful and dangerous effects on the community. I'm wondering if the minister could give us a brief overview on where you strike the balance in this area when it comes to gaming, particularly as it relates to harm reduction - just to give us a sense of where we were before and where we are now.

 

MR. WILSON: No question, I take the gaming portfolio very seriously. We came out with our gaming strategy last year and really what we wanted to ensure government did with that was minimize any risk or minimize the risk of problems that Nova Scotians might have with addictions when it comes to gambling. We know we can't eliminate addictions, whatever level it is; if it's gaming, alcohol, or drugs we need to ensure that government has the programs in place to address that side of the health issue. We have Health and Wellness which provides a lot of funds towards addiction services in the province. Through the gaming strategy and the makeup of the revenue generated through gaming, we have a formula that fluctuates depending on how much revenue there is. If revenue goes up, more money goes towards gaming research and responsible gaming, over to Health and Wellness.

 

We are, from what we know, the first jurisdiction in North America, but I think in the world, to bring forward the My-Play system, it's an informed player-choice system which is called My-Play, which was created by a Cape Breton company - Techlink - in Sydney. We made it mandatory to individuals who are using VLTs, for example, in Nova Scotia that they are required to use the card. Really, how you can kind of plainly best describe the My-Play system is it's like a set of keys to your car. When you go to drive your car you have your keys, you start your car up, and you're given all kinds of information. You know how much gas you have, you know how fast you're going, and you know if you're overheating. The My-Play system, I think, is similar where it gives you a suite of tools to regulate how much you're gaming, what your patterns might be, and hopefully allow you to recognize you may have an issue when it comes to gaming, so I think we recognize that. I think it's a good initiative and I look forward to implementing that over the next year.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Minister, do you wish to make a closing statement?

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you. I appreciate all the support from the department.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E2 stand?

 

Resolution E2 stands.

 

Resolution E43 - Resolved, that the business plan of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation be approved.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E43 carry?

 

Resolution E43 is carried.

 

Thank you very much, the four hours have transpired exactly right to the second. I thank minister, staff, and members. We are adjourned.

 

[The subcommittee adjourned at 8:23 p.m.]