HALIFAX, FRIDAY, APRIL 13, 2012

 

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE ON SUPPLY

 

9:15 A.M.

 

CHAIRMAN

Mr. Clarrie MacKinnon

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will call the Subcommittee on Supply to order. We are dealing with Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, of course, and there are 53 minutes left in the Progressive Conservative caucus questioning.

 

The honourable member for Inverness.

 

MR. ALLAN MACMASTER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, good morning. Now this question, I believe - yes, it was answered yesterday so I'll move on to my next one. I think it was answered very well, very clearly.

 

The Registry of Motor Vehicles budget is increasing this year by $271,000, that's moving up from $3.5 million to $3.8 million, roughly. Is any of this attributed to the Auditor General's Report from last May? I know that one of the issues raised there was reviews of driving schools. Could that be why that extra amount of money is budgeted?

 

HON. JOHN MACDONELL: We haven't added any positions as a result of the Auditor General's recommendations. There is a new position for the Motor Vehicle Appeal board and some salary adjustments, basically. That's the reason.

 

MR. MACMASTER: The Motor Vehicle Appeal Board, could you just refresh me what the purpose of that is? I seem to recall hearing about something that people now have a chance to appeal, if they're - well, I'll let you speak.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Sure. People would have their licence revoked and they had an option to appeal but they appealed to the person who took their licence. It didn't strike me as perhaps the best person you'd want to go back to. So this was to set up an independent individual that you would go to, rather than go back to the registrar for the appeal.

 

There have been some changes in the Act, that some of the criteria under which you might lose it have been removed in the Act because we think they're being really covered elsewhere in law. So the appeal board will probably be most busy for those individuals who lost their licence under the legislation prior to it being amended. They'll have a time period to appeal that licence loss and then after that, we expect it won't be particularly busy, we think.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Thank you, minister, actually I'm starting to recall now a gentleman who came forward at Law Amendments Committee who appreciated the changes, so that's good.

 

As I had mentioned, there was, as part of the Auditor General's Report, some time spent on the Registry of Motor Vehicles. How much money has been set aside in this fiscal year to address these recommendations?

 

MR. MACDONELL: We haven't set anything aside specifically for that so whatever we're going to do to try to meet the recommendations of the Auditor General, we'll do that with our own budget capabilities.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Would you be able to provide details about if there is a backlog that exists at the present time concerning medical documents awaiting review? The Auditor General had recommended the elimination of this backlog.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Medicals are completely up-to-date but we still have a backlog on the collisions.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Is there any expected time frame for when you figure that backlog will be eliminated?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yesterday, but I'll get you a better answer than that. There are some short-term things we can do, like more overtime, to try to get that caught up but there are kind of some longer term solutions which is probably more technology which will take us maybe a couple of years to have completed. So whether the overtime will take care of it, you know, at what point we could say we've accommodated it and still don't have the technology in place, I'm just not sure but certainly we'll try to address it with overtime first to see if we can get through it with the idea that at the same time we're going to have to spend on the technology side so that as we come out, you know, two years out, that we'll actually have a mechanism in place that will prevent it from happening in the first place.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I know the department has been working on reviews of driving schools as per the Auditor General's Report. How many reviews would be left or perhaps they've all been completed?

 

MR. MACDONELL: We do a yearly audit of the schools anyway, you know, just as a part of regular process for us. I think the Auditor General's concern was that we should provide I think stronger oversight in their operations and that's the thing we're intending to work on.

 

MR. MACMASTER: So I guess as part of your overview for going forward, you're spending a little more time overseeing what they're doing at their driving schools to make sure it's in line with what should be happening?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes, and I think if noticing an issue where we feel they're not compliant, that we are more aggressive in ensuring that they come back to compliance more quickly I think is something we have to do.

 

MR. MACMASTER: The tracking system to record all 24-hour and 90-day suspension reports so they could be documented and referred to driver competency for additional review, has the tracking log been reconciled to ensure all suspensions have been recorded and the required reviews completed?

 

MR. MACDONELL: We have put a tracking log in place and we're current with that work.

 

MR. MACMASTER: We're getting lots of good answers here. If we look at land and property, it's forecasting a need for an additional roughly $360,000. What would be the cause of that change? I know the estimate from the previous year was about the same, but there was about $360,000 less actually spent last year and now it's back up again. What would account for that change?

 

MR. MACDONELL: It was just turnover and vacant positions so we had about $200,000 in savings because of vacant positions there. That's what happened.

 

MR. MACMASTER: The FTE positions budgeted for weren't used or people weren't working there so you saved on salaries.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I'm thinking there does seem to be an issue around people leaving or moving so I think what we kind of intend to budget for the work to get done, it seems like we lose people. There were 14 positions budgeted and four of those were vacant at various times of the year.

 

MR. MACMASTER: The next one is Vital Statistics; that division was over budget by about $350,000 this past year, but the forecast is to spend about the same as the - is that the same thing there?

 

MR. MACDONELL: There was a one-time cost of digitizing or scanning historical records and that's the reason for the bump there in the forecast.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Because they're all recorded now, you don't need the money this year.

MR. MACDONELL: Right.

 

MR. MACMASTER: The executive director's office budget for Information Management Services is forecasted to jump another $30,000 this year and last year it was up $380,000. Is that connected to the same thing or what would be the cause of that?

MR. MACDONELL: That was increased amortization expense.

 

MR. MACMASTER: What was that connected to?

 

MR. MACDONELL: It had to do with new assets that are related to two projects - Access for Business and Access for Citizens - A to B and A to C, that's what we refer to them. Those two projects and the assets amortized connected to those.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Did the rules change that you could amortize them more quickly or something, or were they expected to . . .

 

MR. MACDONELL: They're new projects so they start to be amortized when they're put into use.

 

MR. MACMASTER: So was the amortization escalated on them for some reason? I'm just trying to figure out why the discrepancy between the estimate and the actual.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I think it's because it didn't exist before. It's a new amortization so it has to show up. It didn't exist before so therefore . . .

 

MR. MACMASTER: But wouldn't it have shown up under the estimate for last year if you knew that it was going to have to be amortized?

 

MR. MACDONELL: No, because it was being constructed last year. So we didn't have it to show.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I'm still a little confused on that, but maybe we can speak afterwards. The next question is under Program Management and Corporate Services, Audit and Enforcement. It's forecast to jump $1.5 million this year. What would account for that increase?

 

MR. MACDONELL: We're putting in a petroleum tracking system so that's the reason for that cost increase.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Petroleum tracking, is that for sale of gasoline?

 

MR. MACDONELL: This is a response to a recommendation from the URB that says we don't have enough statistical data on the tracking of petroleum pricing across the province. I think one of the things is to ensure that what the pricing structure across the province is, in terms of promotions, that any stations might do to get a handle on what the impact of those promotions are in terms of the draw from other areas where people may go and make use of a promotion. Also to ensure that the stations are compliant with their minimums and maximums, there just wasn't enough data on that so it was a recommendation by the URB to put this in place.

 

MR. MACMASTER: My next question, the Executive Director's Office for Municipal Relations is increased another $56,000 this year and it had been up last year, over budget, by about $250,000. What was the purpose of the increased expenditure there?

 

MR. MACDONELL: We added a position there and also an extension of a secondment to the federal government.

 

MR. MACMASTER: What was the secondment for, what was that for, the extension? What function was it to perform?

 

MR. MACDONELL: It was the Executive Director of Municipal Relations gone to the federal government.

 

MR. MACMASTER: So does your department get reimbursed for that?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes.

 

MR. MACMASTER: So in other words, while it's showing as a bit of an increase you're going to get some of it back.

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's going to get money back. There is also on your 2012-13 estimate line there the $744,000, if you're looking at that number, there is also $150,000 for the fiscal review that we're doing with the municipalities so that number is included in there as well.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Can you explain a little bit about how that review is going?

 

MR. MACDONELL: We've done the initial work that was in the department to then take what we have to the UNSM, which we intend to meet in the next few weeks. Then, with them, determine how they might want to see this go out in order to, I think, determine what things they might want to have looked at and then the process by which they want to do that. If they want to go across the province and do it or if they want each municipal unit to kind of do it internally and feed information back to the task group. That really hasn't been determined and we'd like to sit down with them to see how it is they think this should happen.

 

MR. MACMASTER: What do you hope to come out of the review?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I think we talked yesterday a bit around equalization which was really kind of the key question that spurred the notion of a fiscal review. It was the Premier who got the request from CBRM around equalization. He said, not only will we review equalization, we'll review the whole funding envelope that we contribute money to the municipalities.

 

I think that would include not just my department but how other departments - Transportation - how government generally spends money in the municipalities. I think it'll be a very broad-scope analysis because probably from our side, we tend not to like getting beat up any more than necessary. I think we'd like to say if your issue is around Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations and the funding programs that we have for infrastructure and whatever for communities, but you also should recognize there's funding from this department and this department and this department.

 

I think with some discussion from them, I'm quite sure we're not going to find a bigger pot of money. I think the question is can the available resources be used in a way that we both can agree would be better for them - maybe different from how we do it now. They might say, if you could do this instead of that, that would be better for us. So until we kind of get further underway with the dialogue with them, we don't know that. I think something that makes them feel that process going forward would work better for them, I think.

 

MR. MACMASTER: You mentioned Transportation, would the subject of roads themselves, I know a lot of municipalities, some of them look after more roads than others. I guess that would be one of the topics to be discussed.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I think that should be one of the topics. It's one I hear quite often from mayors and wardens, and the towns obviously seem to be the ones - this is one of the things that came out of the service exchange 15 years ago is that they would maintain the roads in their towns.

 

In my constituency, we don't have a town. We don't have a village. We have a union of communities really that make up that municipal unit. It wasn't until actually the building of subdivisions that the municipality had any responsibility for roads and that only occurred during the service exchange. One of the issues I faced in Opposition was some of these subdivisions, the Department of Highways took over those roads and they built them to a certain standard, the developer built them to a certain standard. Then in the 1990s, the government said we're not taking those anymore, those are going to be left to the municipality.

 

I had roads that the municipality would fund a contractor to go in and plow them because they were theirs, but what they would do is they would drive over the provincial section of a subdivision, through the snow, drop their blade on the municipal section, plow the municipal section, turn around and come back out, lift their blade and drive over the snow on the provincial section. Needless to say, some of the residents thought this was not that funny. What we discussed with my area manager was, would it be possible for the contractor to plow it all and have the department work out some kind of arrangement on this.

So what they decided was that in a way that worked out so that the department didn't take the hit, in other words, they would try to share equally so they would let the municipal contractor come in and do some DOT roads and the DOT would do a road that maybe was municipal because it worked out to be quite convenient. Their truck was there at the time and instead of him turning around and coming back he could just run in and do it. As long as the province didn't take the additional difference in costs so that's how they determined it.

 

Certainly when I drive down through Wolfville, I know one of the things they raised to me was their Main Street. It's the main drag through that area so they raised that as an expense that they have to do that they think the province should be doing because it's kind of a major artery through the whole Valley area, it just so happens to be that part of it goes through the town. So all of those things are additional things that we should take a look at.

 

I'm not expecting big changes in how that service exchange happened in the 1990s only because it was determined at the time it was supposed to be revenue neutral. So when the province took over Community Services, let's say, away from the municipalities, the municipalities took over those roads it was supposed to not have burdened them more than what they were already paying for.

 

Now, unless through the fiscal review somebody makes a case that that didn't really happen that way we've taken on a greater burden than what we had at that time, that would be reason enough, I think, to try to make a case.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Thank you minister, that was very helpful. It's good to be able to make decisions on the ground with your example about the road in your constituency. Okay, that's good.

 

The next question I have, the Consumer and Business Policy division under Program Management and Corporate Services. The actual number for last year compared with the estimate for this coming year, there is about a $5 million discrepancy, probably about a 30 per cent increase. Actually it's quite a bit more than that, it's a significant difference, what would account for the difference there?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I think if you're saying the 2011-12 estimate to the 2011-12 forecast, the drop of $3 million.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I was actually saying the 2011-12 forecast from $13,482,000 up to this year's estimate of $15,258,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Right, okay. Well the . . .

 

MR. MACMASTER: I'm sorry, I must correct myself, I've got two sets of numbers here and it is only up about $2 million on top of the $13 million last year. So I correct myself, sorry about that.

 

MR. MACDONELL: So, do you still have a question?

 

MR. MACMASTER: I still have a question because there is a $2 million increase over the actual from last year.

 

MR. MACDONELL: If you look at the estimate for 2011-12, which is really the HARP program that's making the difference here.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Which program?

 

MR. MACDONELL: The heat rebate. It was under-spent so that's why the forecast is down from the estimate. We removed $1.6 million out of that program that's why your 2012-13 estimate is down a bit from your 2011-12 estimate. We've never had complete uptake in that program. Our expectation is that will possibly be the range that we'll hit but we've always been under.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Okay, that's a good explanation. So my next question, I think I'm going to just pass over that one for the time being, I might come to it later though.

 

The changes to the MOU last year, as I understand, they didn't affect the municipalities significantly this past budget year. However, this coming year, more of the dollars and cents are going to start to become an impact for them. Can you provide a breakdown of what the changes will be for municipalities for the coming year?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I'm thinking we can. Under the, because part of the process is around this process, in other words, the Education budget determines what it is that they have to backfill basically. So I'm not sure if we have that until the budget passes or not but, obviously, we know the number that the budget is coming to the House with. So, anyway, we can do that. I'm pretty sure, I'm trying to think of, the deficit for Housing I think is fairly consistent. I'm trying to think of these numbers from a year ago when I seem to know them better. So I'll get someone to correct me. For Education, the rate was set at the 2010-11 rate and for Corrections, it's $14 million and Housing is $7 million.

 

MR. MACMASTER: So would those budget savings show up for the province, as the province is not spending that money this coming year, would they show up as savings in the Housing, Justice and Education Departments?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I guess you can say if we're not spending it, it's a saving but because we only show what we spend, you know, we only book what we plan to spend. (Interruption) I'm just thinking it must go to Finance. Those three departments should show the number. Yes, that would show up as a revenue or should be, I mean the municipality is going to write them a cheque for that amount.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Yes, okay. The next question there is, under Investigation in the Alcohol and Gaming budget, can you provide some detail as to what kind of investigations take place? There may be a couple of examples of the types of investigations?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I kind of think mostly, although I'm trying to think, in a case where people could complain about a particular lounge or whatever. We do our regular compliance investigations, out and about to ensure that the facilities are following the regulations. Then we do any gaming - casinos, bingos - we do some investigation to ensure they're in compliance.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Is it pretty much done through random inspection and if there is, say 1,000 inspections, is there a rough amount of maybe 5 per cent a year that would require charges or somebody was breaking the regulations?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Generally, those would be investigations and regular inspections. We would maybe have 10 charges that would result in hearings before the URB in a year.

 

MR. MACMASTER: If there are charges and fines levied, do you get those fines, do they come back into the department to help offset the cost of the investigations?

 

MR. MACDONELL: They go to Finance.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Okay. Thank you. This may be more of a question for the Justice Minister during Justice estimates, but . . .

 

MR. MACDONELL: I could answer by trial and error.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Yes, the question is, would your office have any idea of how much money was laundered in Nova Scotia in the past fiscal year?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I'm not even sure if the Minister of Justice can answer that.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I guess if he knew, it wouldn't be laundered anymore.

 

MR. MACDONELL: It wouldn't be that clean. I think about in terms of our tobacco and enforcement in that regard, I think we've got it down from 30 per cent to 11 per cent or something like that. What that 11 per cent looks like in the real world, if you could put a dollar value on that, I'm not sure if you could.

 

MR. MACMASTER: It depends on what it's going for on the street, I guess.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes, but you may want to try the Minister of Justice on that.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I may try that. There was some funding, this is just for clarification, there was funding for churches listed in the supplement, $10,000 for Bear River Church, $10,000 for Holy Ghost Ukrainian Church, there were some others as well. Would this funding maybe be for accessibility grants or that kind of thing?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Quite often it is but it can't be for the church.

 

MR. MACMASTER: It has to be something that's owned by the community?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Quite often churches have a community hall associated with it and so we can fund that but we can't fund the church. That's quite often what - it doesn't always have to be accessibility, if the roof needed to be replaced or windows or something.

 

MR. MACMASTER: What's the name of that program again? I think I used to know it.

 

MR. MACDONELL: There is an accessibility grant program, the other one was community grants but it has gone over to Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Thank you. There was a $330,000 payment to the Public Service Commission of Bridgewater. What was that for and what does that organization do?

 

MR. MACDONELL: They're like a water commission and they're doing a dam project.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Okay, that's good.

 

MR. MACDONELL: So that's the dam project you asked about.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Okay, all those dam projects are good. The next question I have is . . .

 

MR. MACDONELL: And that was under the Building Canada Fund, that's what that was.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Right, okay. The next one here, there was an Intergovernmental Committee on Urban and Regional Research and they received $13,697. What was that committee doing?

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's a national committee not connected to any particular government but I think all the provinces and territories contribute to it. It looks at, you know, municipal, regional and urban issues across the country and we all help fund it.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Here's one that came up, was taxi chits, Casino Taxi provided about $54,000 worth of services and Yellow Cab another roughly $20,000. This is probably for taxi chits paid for right across government?

 

MR. MACDONELL: No, it's accessibility, for people who are disabled.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Okay.

 

MR. MACDONELL: The taxi companies can apply to that program as well.

 

MR. MACMASTER: So how is that money actually spent?

 

MR. MACDONELL: We have two Casino line items and one is for grants which is the accessibility. So the taxi chit one, I'm going to, okay. (Interruption) Yes, that would be what you said originally around people using the taxi.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Just to interject, the 10-minute mark remaining for the 53 minutes that were left over from last night for the Progressive Conservative caucus and then we'll call on the Liberal caucus - I always give a 10-minute warning.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does that number change or fluctuate much every year or is it mostly for taxi usage in downtown Halifax?

 

MR. MACDONELL: We don't have a comparison right now. We could get that for you, I'm kind of curious myself.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Yes, sure.

 

MR. MACDONELL: And it's local, you know, in this area, but we'll see whether that's pretty much standard year to year.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I mean I guess it's not a big expenditure in the grand scheme of things but people might be kind of surprised to see there's so much money being spent on cabs but at the same time, you know, you add up a lot of trips, it wouldn't take long to getting into the few thousands, you know, in this case I guess about close to $75,000 a year.

 

Another expense that was noticed was $1.2 million spent on postal costs, $410,000 for Canada Post and about $800,000 for postal services which may have been Canada Post as well. Is that for postage costs right across government?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Just for our department.

MR. MACMASTER: Just for the department and that's probably because you're using a lot of mailings for reminders for people for, if their vehicle permit needs to be renewed?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Well, even the HARP program which is 50,000 we send out automatically.

 

That taxi chit number, did you say it was $75,000?

 

MR. MACMASTER: There were two; one from Casino for $53,909 and one from Yellow Cab for $19,862, totalling $73,771.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Does it say chit? One of those is accessibility.

 

MR. MACMASTER: So one is accessibility.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Well, there was one for Yellow Cab, I know yesterday when we looked at it, one for Yellow Cab and one was Casino which I thought was $50,000-some, but they were accessibility payments. But the chit one is the one for Casino, the number, I thought you said $8,000 originally on that, $8,909 was the chit.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Okay, that's quite a bit lower.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Considerably. You worried me when you said $75,000.

 

MR. MACMASTER: I know we don't have a lot of time left here. Is there any ability for the government to negotiate? I often think with telephone bills, it's incredible. I look at my own telephone bill and using my BlackBerry constantly, I looked at it last month and it was $303. I'm thinking, it's not worth that much. Surely. When you see your messages are going off to whatever infrastructure they're going through, it seems to me that we almost feel like we're being held hostage. When I think about government, it's such a significant user of telecommunications, we must have some leverage that we can use to get a better deal. I guess I'm thinking the same thing with Canada Post, we do a lot of mailings, do we get a volume discount for that?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I think we probably do. We don't know. I'm told Communications is the place that would deal with that. It's a really good question and although we believe that there is competition in the marketplace so you'd think you could say, we're going to try another provider, it's amazing how little difference there is in what the providers offer. A really good question, I don't have an answer for you, but I think that all the things that we do and I know the member would be aware that we set targets for reductions in all the departments trying to hit balance for next year. I think if it were possible to squeeze something out of that, I think we would have tried to do it. I don't really know how successful we've been on that particular item. I agree.

 

MR. MACMASTER: There's a few charges here, we probably won't have a chance to get through them all but I see there was a payment to CIBC for about $815,000. Would that be for banking services for the department?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Credit card fees and bank charges.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Barrington Consulting received $361,000, it must have been for consulting fees. Do you have an idea of what that was for?

 

MR. MACDONELL: If we don't have it right here, we can get you one. It was an award tender for Access to Business and Access for Citizens, those two new programs that I indicated earlier.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Bentinck Investments, $303,000, what was that one for.

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's a lease for offices in Sydney.

 

MR. MACMASTER: ACS Public Sector Solutions, about $610,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: International fuel tax project and international registration plan.

 

MR. MACMASTER: What would that be connected to, can you just expand a little bit on what that's all about?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Well it has to do with interjurisdictional travel of trucking mostly, you know across borders. Upwards of 60 jurisdictions in North America because I think we all feel that the trucks beat up your infrastructure but you don't always gather their fuel tax and depending on where they buy and whatever. So it's a way to kind of level the abuse, I think if that's the way, it's the way the fuel tax and registration fees are shared in relation to mileage travelled.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Okay, so in other words you're paying other governments elsewhere for fuel . . .

 

MR. MACDONELL: For Nova Scotia truckers.

 

MR. MACMASTER: . . . for Nova Scotia truckers who travel on their roads. I never knew such a thing existed until today.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I didn't either till a while ago.

 

MR. MACMASTER: That's interesting.

 

MR MACDONELL: And they would be paying us.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Time for one more quick question, perhaps, and a quick answer.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Sure. So in other words when the truckers here are from another jurisdiction are buying here we're kind of getting that back in that so it's kind of breaking even, but that goes to finance too probably.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Okay. Mr. Chairman, I think we're probably about out of time.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Time has just about expired, only seconds left, so I would like to ask do you want more time or are you spent?

 

MR. MACMASTER: I have more questions here but I think I'll . . .

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Will you come back for another round?

 

MR. MACMASTER: I think I've exhausted all that I need to exhaust.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: So the Progressive Conservative caucus is satisfied with the questioning.

 

MR. MACMASTER: Yes we're satisfied. Thank you.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will call on the Liberal caucus for up to one hour, I don't know if you want to take the full hour but you're welcome to as you know, so proceed at any time.

 

The honourable member for Preston.

 

HON. KEITH COLWELL: Thank you Mr. Chairman, my first question is how many credit cards does the department have?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Or how many people have credit cards. I don't have that right now but we'll find out.

 

MR. COLWELL: Maybe when you find that out you can find out how much is charged on the credit cards every year.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes.

 

MR. COLWELL: I have some other specific ones here I want to ask about. The Atlantic Air Survey Limited, this is in your . . .

 

MR. MACDONELL: Finance would have that for you, when the Finance Department gets before budget estimates.

 

MR. COLWELL: So they look after this Atlantic Air Survey, this $446,100.

 

MR. MACDONELL: They look after government credit cards.

 

MR. COLWELL: Oh, credit cards but I'm specifically asking for your department.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes we can get that.

 

MR. COLWELL: Okay, on to something else here now. The Atlantic Air Survey Limited $446,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Photo and mapping services for the Geomatic Centre.

 

MR. COLWELL: That's an ongoing contract is it?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yeah, well I'm sure it ends at some point but we're always updating that mapping so it's one that we would see whether it's them or a similar company but at some point I would expect it to be retendered. But that service we would like to continue for sure.

 

MR. MACDONELL: We do different sections of the province every year so it is an ongoing thing.

 

MR. COLWELL: Auto Light Atlantic Limited for $8,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: We don't have any details on that one, but we'll get them for you. If I could ask the Page to give this to Mr. Colwell, those are some of the answers from questions last night.

 

MR. COLWELL: Thank you. I have one here for Alfred Bailey for $5,400.

 

MR. MACDONELL: We don't have details on that. We'll get that for you.

 

MR. COLWELL: Banc Group, whatever that is, and Banc Properties Limited. There's one here for $8,200 and the other one is $242,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's the lease at Bayers Lake for the Access Centre.

 

MR. COLWELL: The $8,200, would that be for the lease too?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Same company, $8,200. Is it a separate line?

 

MR. COLWELL: No, it's a separate group. Sorry about that. It's probably the same organization, but one is properties and the other one is group. The group is $8,280.

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's an operating cost associated with the lease, but I don't have more specifics than that.

 

MR. COLWELL: Okay, that's close enough. We have one here for CARIS for $99,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's a geomatic software system. It's the annual maintenance contract amount.

 

MR. COLWELL: There's one here for John R. Cameron for $54,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's a legal professional service. We used them for the Motor Vehicle Act rewrite, the Cemetery and Funeral Services Act and a legislative reform project.

 

MR. COLWELL: Is that a tendered contract?

 

MR. MACDONELL: They're on the standing offer list.

 

MR. COLWELL: I've got the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce here for $815,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Credit card fees and bank charges.

 

MR. COLWELL: I'm going to be interested to see how many credit cards you've got. That's going to be interesting.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Those are our customers who pay with credit cards. That's not us.

 

MR. COLWELL: It shows that it costs though.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes, it's a cost to us when people use their credit cards to pay us.

 

MR. COLWELL: Wow. Maybe you should stop taking credit cards.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I think cash might start to cost us quite a bit more.

 

MR. COLWELL: I don't know - $800,000 in fees; that's a lot of money. Anyway, Carmichael Engineering for $65,048.

 

MR. MACDONELL: We'll get you that.

 

MR. COLWELL: Communications Nova Scotia Advertising - what's the breakdown on the advertising for $102,000?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I don't have an amount. I can tell you what it was for but I don't have an amount by each one of them.

 

Advertising services re Access Nova Scotia, Homeowner Protection Act, Condo Act review, Heat Smart, Your Community Needs You and new home construction rebate. That's what it was, it was for advertising for all of those items.

 

MR. COLWELL: The next one down the list is a graphics display for roughly $51,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Well, it would be associated with the advertising that was spent, but it was design services associated with those advertising that we mentioned in your previous question.

 

MR. COLWELL: Print production is next on the list, $263,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's bulk printing and stationery.

 

MR. COLWELL: Queen's Printer for $190,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: For things like this.

 

MR. COLWELL: Then we have Support Services for $300,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's for our communications team at the department.

 

MR. COLWELL: They work actually for Communications Nova Scotia, do they?

 

MR. MACDONELL: They do.

 

MR. COLWELL: That would be salaries and all that stuff?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes.

 

MR. COLWELL: Then we have video production here of $5,500.

 

MR. MACDONELL: There was a rethink video on energy savings and efficiency. That's what that was for.

 

MR. COLWELL: Could I get a detailed breakdown on all that you've been charged by Communications Nova Scotia for the whole works?

 

MR. MACDONELL: For that line item?

 

MR. COLWELL: For everything - advertising, graphic display, print production, Queen's Printer, support services and the video production.

 

MR. MACDONELL: You want a dollar item?

 

MR. COLWELL: A detailed breakdown. What it was for and how much.

 

MR. MACDONELL: We'll try that. We'll try to get that for you.

 

MR. COLWELL: Okay. I realize you don't have it here. There's one for Concertia Technologies Inc. for $342,000. What would that be for? The one right after Communications Nova Scotia on the list I have here.

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's IT professional services for the Registry of Motor Vehicles, stabilization and low blood alcohol count.

 

MR. COLWELL: Corporate Research, $17,700, what's that for?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I don't have anything beside that line item so we'll find that for you.

 

MR. COLWELL: Crombie Developments, is that rent again?

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's a lease.

 

MR. COLWELL: There's one for Dalhousie University, Students Accounts Office for $7,700.

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's associated with our collection of student loans.

 

MR. COLWELL: And Dalhousie University, $12,000. What's that for?

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's paying for staff taking university courses.

 

MR. COLWELL: Also I've got one here, David Aplin Recruiting, $643,000, wow.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Temporary support and clerical services mainly for the Business Registry Unit and Heating Assistance Rebate Program.

 

MR. COLWELL: Wow, that's a big expense. I've got one here for Roger Dick for $12,674.26?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Okay, a property on-line, software maintenance.

 

MR. COLWELL: Okay, we have one here Eastcan Geomatics Consulting Limited for $188,000?

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's, if I can say this right, photogrammetric services to update Nova Scotia topographic database. So that would be for the Geomatics Centre.

 

MR. COLWELL: And the ESRI Canada Limited for $429,710?

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's software maintenance.

 

MR. COLWELL: What about Geonet Technologies for $19,800?

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's geometric services to update Nova Scotia topographic database again.

 

MR. COLWELL: It costs a lot to keep that all up-to-date, doesn't it?

 

MR. MACDONELL: It does.

 

MR. COLWELL: Grand & Toy, we have here for $29,261?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Grand & Toy, office furnishing and office supplies.

 

MR. COLWELL: Okay, Halifax West Manufacturing for $133,000?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Revalidation stickers, Access Nova Scotia.

 

MR. COLWELL: IMP Group for $976,549?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Software maintenance, Access to Business and AMANDA 5 upgrade, equipment purchases, professional service to replace PureEdge with Adobe LiveCycle regarding Land Registration application and various other.

 

MR. COLWELL: What about Imperial Parking Canada Corp. for $15,262?

 

MR. MACDONELL: We have some leased vehicles so it's parking for those vehicles.

 

MR. COLWELL: What would they be for?

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's the Auditing and Enforcement group, for the Registry of Motor Vehicles compliance group.

 

MR. COLWELL: And those are vehicles that are owned by the province?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Leased by the province.

 

MR. COLWELL: Yes, okay. IQub Business Intelligence Specialists, for $312,000?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes, activity tracking system. (Interruptions) That was a capital project that we were working on last year. I can get you more detail on that if you want.

 

MR. COLWELL: Yes, if you would, I would appreciate it. Kevin John Jillings, for $9,000?

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's for staff training for customer service.

 

MR. COLWELL: Staff training?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes.

 

MR. COLWELL: MacNeill & Associates for $125,000?

 

MR. MACDONELL: GIS technician services, maintenances of NSRN, which is validation of civic address data, creation of emergency service zone boundaries and support for the Nova Scotia Civic Address File.

 

MR. COLWELL: MacPhee Pontiac for $14,400.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Vehicle leases.

 

MR. COLWELL: For what?

 

MR. MACDONELL: For those Audit and Compliance vehicles I mentioned.

 

MR. COLWELL: And there is another one just below that for $11,800, MacPhee Chevrolet Buick GMC Cadillac.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Same thing.

 

MR. COLWELL: Mara Consulting Inc. for $20,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I will find that out for you.

 

MR. COLWELL: Wayne A. Marsh for $27,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I don't have any identification beside that as to what it is so we'll find that out for you.

 

MR. COLWELL: Mastercard, $29,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's the Registry of Motor Vehicles credit card charges.

 

MR. COLWELL: That's the cost for using the system.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes.

 

MR. COLWELL: Municipality of the County of Pictou for $126,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: It's a lease for the Land Registry Office, for the Pictou Land Registry Office.

 

MR. COLWELL: Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board for $742,985.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Member salary and benefits to payday loans and direct expenses relating to board mandate regarding the Petroleum Product Pricing Act.

 

MR. COLWELL: I have one here for Oracle Canada ULC for $715,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Oh yeah, Oracle Canada, Access to Business project and various other software, licence and support.

 

MR. COLWELL: That's a good business they've got going there, probably took them a long time to develop it though. Panco Construction Limited for $223,690.

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's the lease for the Sackville Access Centre.

 

MR. COLWELL: Robert E. Poirier and Associates Limited for $316,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's the lease for the Dartmouth Access Centre.

 

MR. COLWELL: Laurence Shaw down here for $7,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Purchases for Audit and Enforcement activities.

 

MR. COLWELL: And we have one for Hugh Simpson for $10,300.

 

MR. MACDONELL: That's an honoraria regarding the Regional Assessment Appeals Court.

 

MR. COLWELL: Catherine Smits, I guess it is, for $17,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Air photo labour, I'm assuming that must be for geomatic.

 

MR. COLWELL: Telephone Network is $868,205.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Monthly telecom billings.

 

MR. COLWELL: Barrington Consulting Group for $361,000.

 

MR. MACDONELL: International fuel tax agreement, consulting, point of sale consulting and various other.

 

MR. COLWELL: Could I get a breakdown on that?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I will try that.

 

MR. COLWELL: Almost done here, almost done. Waldale Manufacturing.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Passenger and miscellaneous licence plates for Access Centres.

 

MR. COLWELL: Wiz-Tec Computing Technologies, is that software again?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Point of sale software visual, point of sale merchant server, annual software maintenance and support. I have an acronym here, NSIFTE Merchant Server System and Test Lab.

 

MR. COLWELL: How much time do we have left?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have actually ample time, you about 38 minutes or 40 minutes.

 

MR. COLWELL: I'm going to ask a different line of questioning now, thank you for all that information by the way. I'm just going to be a second here getting to this part of my file.

 

We talked earlier about wage increases in the department and it indicated, and the governments have been indicating, that it's really holding to 1 per cent wage increases. That's the official line. Now when we did some analysis from 1999 up until now, and we just used the first 38 people on the list in the department from 1999, we come up with an average wage increase of 9.5 per cent.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Did you say for the first 30 people?

 

MR. COLWELL: We started with Karen Denise Abbey and we just went down through the system and we stopped at Alison Briand. When you look at the percentage change there are some of those that went down, probably because of overtime that we talked about yesterday, or reduced hours because maybe someone was sick or they transferred out of the department or things like that. But the total percentage change in salaries is 9.5 per cent in just that group, now we didn't have time to go through any more but that's substantially higher than 1 per cent. There is something a little bit wrong here.

 

MR. MACDONELL: That was in 2009.

 

MR. COLWELL: That is from 2009 up to the most current information we have which would be, of course, the most current information supplied in your books. This information is all taken from the estimates.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I think there are a couple of things. I think the contract when it was renegotiated was 1.9 per cent and then one per cent and one per cent. But because of the timing of when it was signed, because it had been without a contract, there was some retro back pay which would have increased that amount a bit, it would have come out more as a lump. Trying to think of the third part of this, there would have been incremental step increases as people moved up, as they got classified higher there would have been some increases there.

 

MR. COLWELL: As I go through these numbers some of those numbers, without the incremental increases would bear true, roughly when you look at the numbers because if I look at the first person on the list - and I don't really like naming people in this committee but it's public record - the first one on the list that you have there is 1.7 per cent over the first year from 2010-11, which would make sense, then the change of 3.1 including the next year. That's where it should be.

 

But if I go down the list, there are some glaring examples here. I'm going to draw your attention to some things that we've found and want an explanation about them.

 

MR. MACDONELL: We might just have to take your list of names and get back to you. The name you mentioned was somebody who appealed a reclassification and won it and then some people get promotions or go to another job, and it could be overtime. Whatever. But I think we nearly would have to take each one of the 30 that you've mentioned or if you have eight names we would have to look at each one individually to tell you what the circumstances were for each.

 

MR. COLWELL: I understand that. There's one here I'm going to point out, three actually - again, I hate using someone's name but this is public record - Lynn Bowen-Avery. In 2009 the salary was $43,800, 2010 was $38,500 and 2011 $83,813. That's a $45,000 change. A 117 per cent increase.

 

MR. MACDONELL: She went out on maternity leave so her salary dropped. Then she came back at the full level.

 

MR. COLWELL: The regular salary for her would be the $83,000?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Right.

 

MR. COLWELL: It might have been a little bit less at the beginning because of increments and all that stuff. Okay, that makes sense. No problem.

 

I have another one here that's Tracey Irene Boudreau and that's gone up 36.3 per cent.

 

MR. MACDONELL: She's a part-time relief person who sometimes does relief work. Her salary would depend upon how much relief work, you would see kind of an unexpected variation in her wages. She's really only down for us as a part-time person, but she could work full-time depending on what the need might be and she could come in and do relief work. That's why you see these kinds of variations of increases that are outside of what you think her regular salary would indicate.

 

MR. COLWELL: It looks like she has been working more each time. The first in 2009 was around $27,000 then went to $31,000 and then to $42,000. Sounds like a pretty good employee, if that's the case, that's good. That's the kind of explanation I like to hear.

 

One more I'm going to ask you about. Nathan Gorall was a 28 per cent increase and that's one I don't have on my list here but we have the information on it, 28.6 per cent increase.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I'm not sure if it was your question earlier or the member for Inverness, but we talked about a gentleman who is on secondment to the federal government. He's paid at the federal salary, we pay it, but they'll pay us back.

 

MR. COLWELL: Okay. It wasn't me that asked that so it must have been him. My colleague has some questions she would like to ask if that's okay. Then I'd like to use the rest of the time myself.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Halifax Clayton Park.

 

MS. DIANA WHALEN: I'm pleased to be able to join your discussion today. I don't have the numbers in front of me so I won't be drilling down on the numbers as much as a couple of issues that I have brought to the estimates in previous years.

 

I'd like to get an update on a couple of things. One of them is the whole issue around the changes we were going to make to make condominium ownership a better option particularly to protect the buyers of condominiums. As we know, starting probably in the early 2000s issues started to arise, but I know it came here to the House around 2006 and a new organization was formed, the Condominium Owners of Nova Scotia. The acronym spells CONS, they weren't happy people and they came with a lot of issues. I know the department worked with them both under the Progressive Conservative Government and now continuing.

 

I had a fairly recent discussion with one of their co-presidents who said they were quite happy with most things, but I've had other condominium owners coming to me on a couple of issues. I think there are some things that have kind of stalled, in my opinion. The one particularly is the issue of insurance and coverage for the buyers. I guess when you did all the consultation there was talk about increasing or asking more companies to come in to offering new home insurance policies that we had. There wasn't really a problem with houses, that seems that what we have available serves the homeowners, it has not served the people who own condominiums.

 

They've had million dollar expenses on buildings that had to be rectified and the owners have had to share the cost. Nothing has happened really in the last six years to address that so could you tell me what we're going to do?

 

MR. MACDONELL: A really interesting conundrum, I would say. I did meet with CONS, had a very good meeting. I'm sympathetic to their issues. I'm a little bit torn only in that I don't know where you split the "buyer beware" thing when you buy a house compared to buying a condominium.

 

One of the issues around insurance has been that the market here is such a small market to attract an insurer to handle it or have a desire to, whether they could make money at it. The other issue is if we were to try to impose to developers that they backstop it, if they have some kind of insurance, then that's going to drive up the cost of the condominiums.

 

In my discussion with the CONS group, I think we came to a common place, which is not necessarily done easily through my department - and I haven't had a lengthy discussion with my colleague because it seems to me that it's connected to Labour and Advanced Education - but it was around inspection. There's an issue around four-storey buildings and I know there's a clause number, called, I think, non-part 9. But anyway, there's an issue around having condominiums inspected by a building inspector and I said, wouldn't this just solve the problem, have building inspectors go in while the construction is going on? They said, great, we'd be good with that.

 

So to that point, I haven't really had that kind of greater conversation because if my memory is right, it's not us, it's building code.

 

But I think if it's possible to do that, I think that eliminates the insurance issue. I mean as long as they knew somebody was overseeing the construction, that it was being done according to code, then I think that eliminates the biggest issues that the people who buy them have. So I think that's the route which I think is - and there may be some aspects of that that I'm not aware of but from what I think right now, this might be the cheapest and the most direct way to help them and, hopefully, the fastest way to help them. Anyway, it seems to be kind of a reasonable place to go.

 

MS. WHALEN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. My concern is that right now there are new buildings being built, they are going up fast and furiously in parts of my riding, in Bedford, and in other parts of the province even and those buyers still don't have that assurance. And some of the deficiencies that have been found in the buildings are like blatant code violations and really ridiculous things that cost a lot of money to repair, and water being the biggest issue that is happening, water penetration, but we've had other things as well - bricks not laid right, entire faces of a building having to be re-bricked and things like that.

 

When I've attended their meetings, it appears that nobody visits the site. They may come for safety issues but they're not coming to inspect the building. The HRM said they really have a checklist and they check the plans. They look at the plans and they check off if everything is right, if they have the right fire exits, if they have this and that, if the doors are wide enough, but that's all they are looking at. They are not coming in person, to see the quality of the workmanship.

 

The builders themselves will say that the technology in these bigger buildings and tall buildings is quite different. Maybe we don't have the workforce that has even the knowledge to do it properly, that's a possibility.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Well, I don't think.

 

MS. WHALEN: Well, you know, some of them are new types of things, they are telling me, new building methods. Anyway, I'm really concerned that that has been left empty and unaddressed and you said it's a conundrum but I don't think we should be satisfied to leave it there.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Well I'm not satisfied to leave it there, I'm just saying I only just met them about three weeks ago and so I've only been the minister in the department for a little over a year but I do see that this is a possible light at the end of the tunnel and we've actually found the tunnel. So for me, it's something I think is worth pursuing.

 

I do not know if it is possible, I haven't pursued it to that extent. There is another thing to consider, I'm not sure that anybody has to buy a condo. In other words, if there are all these issues in the condo market, then for Heaven's sake, people should make some guarantees on their own, sign a contract with the developer that you can take him to court if you don't get satisfaction on your building. See a lawyer before you start.

 

Until there's something else that's a kind of protection, if it's possible for government to generate that, for Heaven's sake, this is a big investment, I think there is some onus on the people who want to buy these things to do their own groundwork.

 

MS. WHALEN: It would bring me to the point about whether or not the department is doing any publicity or printing anything that would help people to make good decisions. I think a lot of times, as you know, condominium ownership is attractive to people as they get older and we have an aging population, there's nothing new there. We know that. The demand for them is beginning now, we're decades behind the boom in condominiums in other cities in central Canada and so on. It's now looking like a popular option so people want to buy them and they don't realize a lot of the issues around governance and ownership, the idea of what they're buying into, some of those concerns.

 

People are pretty trusting so I wonder if you have any kind of information for prospective buyers? If they go on the Web site, do you have all those warnings there? There are some pretty dire financial consequences.

 

MR. MACDONELL: We have our own advice on our Web site plus links to other national organizations that have advice for consumers in this regard. The province does have a Novus report that had eight recommendations and we've moved on six. The real difficult one, and I think the place you were going with your original question, was around the warranty, that does seem to be an issue.

 

MS. WHALEN: That is the biggest area of protection that I'm most concerned with. As you say, people are taking almost the same amount of money they own for their homes and investing that now in a condominium.

 

What I was going to go back to was something that would be much quicker. We've already waited six years to explore the insurance market and look at other options but the idea of a holdback from the builders would provide a pool of money for the new buyers that come in and become the owners of the condominium building. I had suggested that initially because it's something you could do quickly and it would help everybody from this point forward.

 

If you made it a 5 per cent holdback and had it in a fund for five years, most of these problems are coming up within the first year or two, people are realizing what's happening and that money would be released back to the owner if nothing happened.

 

MR. MACDONELL: Yes, there's no clear market date on your notion of 5 per cent or whether it should be 10 per cent or 50 per cent. There's no clear market date on that but we're looking at doing an actuarial study to determine what that might be.

 

I don't think there's anything that precludes anybody who wants to buy a condo and they enter into an agreement with a contractor that they could set their own payment options to ensure that in the first two or three years they could do a holdback or whatever. It's a question of whatever they can agree on. Those options are still available to them.

 

MS. WHALEN: I think that's pretty difficult for the average home buyer though. You do a holdback if you've had a home inspection and they've identified a deficiency, you say I'm not paying you until you fix that deficiency. You do that when you're buying a house.

 

I don't know how you could do that with a purchase and sale in a condominium when there's no evidence that you're aware of, you're doing it more because you're worried. That would be my point, I don't think buyers would really be in a position to do that without - if I'm one buyer and I say I'm not going to give you 5 per cent of the purchase price for three years until I know that my unit doesn't leak or I haven't got a problem on the balcony. That's one thing but you have 50 or 100 owners that are the total ownership of that building. One person choosing to do that is not good protection, the whole building has to do that because you jointly own all of the common space and the exterior of the building.

 

My point is that if it became a regulation or a requirement that the builder must set aside that amount, then you have got an insurance policy in place. When I've asked some of the condo builders about this, they have said as you said, it would drive up the price but they said that's fine, we'd probably charge 5 per cent more and the fund would be there because the money wouldn't be available for them, their profit wouldn't be there initially, there's time cost of money and so on. But I think from a buyer's point of view there is a great deal of protection there because I'd rather know the price of the building, including that extra 5 per cent, and be able to get a mortgage on it or know up front what the cost is, than move in, having put all my money into this new unit, and then get a bill for $20,000, my share of a major improvement or fix.

 

That's why I say it is better consumer protection to have that just built in, and even if it was done as a stopgap measure, until you can get better inspection or until we can arrange to do maybe home insurance throughout Atlantic Canada or something, so we get a bigger market, because those things obviously take time to set in place.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I think building inspection would be simpler, less costly and I would say don't buy the condo. You mentioned about the house, you know you're going to hold back because of the deficiency, but that's because you see the deficiency. If you don't see the deficiency in the house, then you don't hold back, which is the same place as the people who are buying the condominium are at. So if it's obvious there is a deficiency in the condominium before you move in, you are obviously not going to pay them - fix it.

 

So yes, the question then becomes how do we determine what the holdback should be? So that's why I think people might want to think about at least protecting themselves as much as they can legally until we have something more clearly defined in place, which we don't have right now. It's not that we're opposed to doing that, we're just at a place that we haven't got all the facts around what that can look like, what it would do in relation to what other jurisdictions do.

 

I'm still of the view that if those buildings were inspected before people moved in, that would give more of a guarantee to the owners that this was built according to a certain code.

 

MS. WHALEN: It would. I just feel that it is important that the government take some action and get those inspectors in place and if that's the avenue that . . .

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, there is a chairman, so Ms. Whalen is speaking at this moment and there are about 10 minutes left in the Liberal caucus time. It is a matter of concern and I know it can get a little heated, so please wait until one is finished. Ms. Whalen, continue.

 

MS. WHALEN: Mr. Chairman, could you tell me as well when there's just a couple of minutes left. I know you said we are in the final 10.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes.

 

MS. WHALEN: I was going to ask as well about residential tenancies but I may not get there.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: So you are finished with your question and statement?

 

MS. WHALEN: Well actually I thought the minister was getting ready. I have another question as well, I think we're going to disagree just now on how urgent the matter is. I'm not pleased to hear that people should just not buy condominiums, I mean we've got a lot of construction, a lot of value in our economy because of the construction of condominiums and the demand for them. I think we need to recognize it's a reality in the marketplace and we need to get on to putting the protections in place.

 

As I said, CONS was largely happy with what is going on and the six measures you've already taken. This just remains a problem for the new owners who are coming into the market.

 

I wanted to know if there was any move to get somebody in the department who would be a kind of condo ombudsman, a place - I know you've got a Registrar of Condominiums but somebody where the complaints can go and where you can start to also develop other policy to make sure you are plugging the holes of the problems that are coming up because they seem to be many and, Mr. Chairman, there are a lot of new things that seem to crop into it.

 

I'll give an example; there's a new building built in Fairview riding, it is called the Waterton and it has geothermal power. One tower is up, it was built on a concrete pad for two towers. One tower is up, it's a condominium. An attractive feature to buy it is that it has geothermal power because as an owner, you'd think well my power bill will be less, that's a good thing.

 

Once they moved in and the condominium was registered, they discovered that as new owners of the building they didn't own the geothermal power generation, it's owned by the builder of the condominium. That builder kept the ownership of it and charged them an exorbitant amount of money to run the geothermal station. Where they thought they would have a cushion against the power costs, they were paying just as much and maybe more.

 

That, to me, is abusive in that kind of a business relationship that they had to tie the condominium owners into a contract to have to buy their power from this company. I think they were able to break that after a time, I believe they were. The other problem with it is, again maybe going back to inspections, I'm told there isn't enough geothermal rods in the ground to actually keep that building properly heated, let alone the second building. The building has backup electric or some other backup power source but there weren't enough holes drilled to a sufficient depth to ensure that there was enough heat generated that it would cover two buildings.

 

The second building is now under construction, may or may not become a condominium based on market demand, and the owners of the original condominium feel that they will not be able to extract enough heat to really offset the cost when the second building is open. That, to me, is an abusive thing. It was used as a sales marketing tool. There were two problems with it. One is, is it sufficient heat they're generating and the second one is the ownership of that when people take over ownership of their tower.

 

These things are unusual things but there's always going to be some new twist that comes up. The question is, where's the ombudsman or the person you can take your complaints to and that we can start having policy that will address or measures that address it?

 

MR. MACDONELL: That particular situation you talked about was, I think, helped very much along - I mean, the fact that they were able to overdo that, get some help, was as a result of our Registrar of Condominiums, Mark Coffin. For us, he's the go-to person for these people and he helped them.

 

I still don't know whether the developer misrepresented what he was selling but it seems to me that there is some onus on the buyer. Maybe it's the fact that I don't have many condominiums in my constituency and people buy houses all the time and so I don't really see this - other than the fact that you have more owners of a particular building but they each own a piece of it. I think there is some due diligence on the part of buyers to ensure that the heating system does what it's supposed to do, that they actually own the heating system. To find out afterwards they didn't own the heating system? There's a problem.

 

The issue you talked about previously that I couldn't get to respond to, is very expensive; you're going to need an adjudication system, it's going to need financial oversight, it's going to need inspection - which I would think if we could get the building inspection while the building is being built, that would eliminate the warranty need. I found the CONS group, I think they felt the same way, if you could do that, that would alleviate our issues by and large.

 

Anyway, it's our intention to try to help in this regard. Whether we can make this the ideal, I'm not entirely sure of that but as far as it's possible to do that, I have no bias in this regard. It's an issue and as much as government can do something to help, I think the sooner we can do that the better. But I'm really kind of hopeful that the building inspection piece is something that can happen faster and would probably be the cheaper alternative for people who want to buy condominiums and live in them.

 

MS. WHALEN: Then could I just ask if you have any time frame? I'll just leave it at that.

 

MR. MACDONELL: I don't.

 

MS. WHALEN: You said it could go fast, could I ask that you speak to the minister responsible for that and we work to get that in place?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Sure.

 

MS. WHALEN: I'm going to turn it back over to my colleague to finish up the last two minutes.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have a shade over two minutes.

 

HON. KEITH COLWELL: Two minutes, doing well. I'm going to ask you a very unusual question. Are you prepared to vote on your resolution right now?

 

MR. MACDONELL: I can.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Or did you want closing remarks?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Well, I'm just wondering if the member is done?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Actually it's my understanding that after the two-hour time frame, the Progressive Conservatives are in fact spent, they have no more questions, but we could go to another hour for you?

 

MR. COLWELL: I realize that and I'm asking the minister if he's prepared to read his statement.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, so you are satisfied as a Party?

 

MR. COLWELL: If he reads his statement right now.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Minister, did you want a closing remark?

 

MR. MACDONELL: Well, I just want to thank the members and we'll get back to you on any questions that we didn't have an answer for you, we'll get back to those, and I want to thank my staff.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E34 stand?

 

Resolution E34 stands.

 

Thank you, minister, thank you, members. Actually I was informed by a member of your caucus that after the reading there are to be no questions. I allowed one from the Progressive Conservatives on Tuesday night I believe and Mr. Samson said that once the reading, you can't get into the minutes. So that's the legal understanding that he has and he has been in the House a long time.

 

MR. COLWELL: Maybe I could say something off the record here. It's not a question for the minister, it's just a comment about his staff. I think you have an extremely professional staff who do an excellent job. Any time we contact them the response is always very quick with the facts, sometimes not information we wanted to hear but the facts, and that's important, and I just wanted to pass that along for the minister and for the staff in the department. I, personally, have a great deal of respect for your staff and the work they do.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much and we are going to keep going here.

 

We will now begin the estimates of the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

Resolution E2 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $58,665,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage, pursuant to the Estimate, and the business plan of the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia be approved.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable Minister of Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

HON. DAVID WILSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, committee members. It's a pleasure to be here today to start the estimates for the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. I have some opening remarks that will outline the highlights of the 2012-13 budget for the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

Mr. Chairman, this is the first fiscal year where the new structure of this department can be fully reflected.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Minister, I've been advised that someone has gone to get somebody from the Liberal caucus for this so if you could just hold off for a moment, pour a glass of water or something, that would be great.

 

We've been advised to try to keep moving because some members have to get back to their constituencies and if we take a five-minute or 10-minute break, it usually is twice as long, so that's why we're trying to proceed here this morning. Thank you, Ms. Whalen, for coming back.

 

The minister was just about to give his remarks, so we'll call on the minister to proceed.

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I was mentioning, this is the first fiscal year where the new structure of this department could be fully reflected in our estimates and I'm excited to share details of our plans with the committee and the people of Nova Scotia.

 

It has been just over a year since this department was created, and I want to commend the staff for their hard work to move the transition of our new structure forward. Mr. Chairman, I congratulate Deputy Minister Laura Lee Langley, who joined me here today and members of her senior leadership team, along with the exceptional people of the department for their dedication to advancing the achievement of the department's focus of best practices and providing tremendous service and support to our stakeholders throughout the province.

 

Mr. Chairman, it's a privilege to share information about the budget for this department, a department that brings a focus to communities in the broadest sense of the word. A community is more than just a place name on a map, it can be any group that shares a set of beliefs, values or a common purpose. Communities are, by their very nature, diverse, taking into account different points of view, different ranges of experience and different dreams and aspirations.

 

Mr. Chairman, above all else, communities are about people, their hopes and dreams for the future. This department is making key investments in our culture, heritage and services such as public libraries that are helping Nova Scotians achieve those dreams. That is in keeping with the priorities that Nova Scotians have told government matters most to them. Nova Scotians value strong communities that create economic opportunities through good jobs, which are being supported by the new Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Fund. This program will help build capacity in our communities, enhancing the public spaces where people gather to work, play or celebrate together.

 

Mr. Chairman, Nova Scotians value communities that place importance on lifelong learning, which is supported by community museums, archives and libraries throughout Nova Scotia. Nova Scotians value communities that work hard to celebrate our diverse culture and heritage. An example of one of the ways this works is being supported in the new Vive L'Acadie Community Fund that is generated by the sales of Nova Scotia's new French language licence plates.

 

Mr. Chairman, Nova Scotians are rich in diverse culture and heritage and are the foundation for many vibrant communities. This department is dedicated to promoting that diversity and celebrating it with all Nova Scotians. This year our new Communities Nova Scotia unit will work to develop specific approaches to broaden our scope in diversity and social equity. Working with the Diversity Round Table, we will examine better ways to engage, celebrate and support Nova Scotia's diverse communities in manners that reflect their culture and their values.

 

Mr. Chairman, whether it is a local museum, support for artists, funding for public libraries or the many programs that support our Acadian, African Nova Scotian or Gaelic cultures, this department is helping to make life better for Nova Scotia families.

 

It is a pleasure to speak to the committee today about the major initiatives and activities for the department in this coming year. I'm proud to serve as minister for a department which does so much to contribute to making life better for families in every region in communities across Nova Scotia. That contribution includes the support provided to regional libraries across the province through the Nova Scotia Provincial Library.

 

Our government understands how important public libraries are to the health and vitality of communities across the province. That is why we are providing stable operating funding again this year to regional library boards. It is why we are supporting those boards as they undertake a study about options for maintaining active rural library service that can benefit families in every region of the province. With the leadership of staff and in co-operation with library boards in every part of Nova Scotia, we're ensuring that public libraries continue to support a culture that values lifelong learning.

 

To do that, the provincial library works with partners to explore ways to be more efficient in managing library collections so that resources can be focused at the local level on programming. For example, recognizing that the Internet plays an important day-to-day role in the work of public libraries, the Nova Scotia Provincial Library has been covering the cost of Internet connection for regional libraries. That will continue in the 2012-13 fiscal year.

 

Thanks to the work government is doing to live within its means, we are able to provide continued and stable funding through operating grants to regional library boards. In 2012-13 the budget for these operating grants is being maintained at approximately $14 million, the same as in the previous fiscal year. As I mentioned a moment ago, the department is helping regional library boards explore options for sustainable rural service delivery. This year we will contribute $200,000 to help the board complete a study and develop recommendations. As I've travelled across the province over the last year and visited many of these rural libraries, we recognize how important they are and how many of them are the focal point of many rural communities.

 

I look forward to continuing dialogue with staff and volunteers who support our public libraries. Every Nova Scotian benefits from stable and sustainable library services. They support learning at the community level and that learning is vital for Nova Scotians to be able to take advantage of economic opportunities and ensure continued prosperity for their families no matter where they choose to live in the province.

 

The Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage brings a broader focus to protecting and celebrating Nova Scotia's diverse culture and heritage. The work of Acadian Affairs, African Nova Scotian Affairs and Gaelic Affairs ensures that these cultural communities are part of government's efforts to make life better for families across the province. That work also ensures that all Nova Scotians benefit from the innovation and creativity that is unleashed when we celebrate and value our diverse culture and heritage.

 

This isn't just something that is nice to support. Ensuring every Nova Scotian has the opportunity to pursue their dreams and contribute to a stronger community is vital to our future as a province. I am proud to work with the people of our department to help that happen. I look forward to continuing to work with my colleagues, Ministers Steele, MacDonald and Paris in the coming year to ensure the voices of these communities are heard at the decision-making table in government.

 

The Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage will work to ensure that the contributions these communities have made to our history continue to be recognized and that they help to influence the province's future. That includes making key investments in preserving the diverse elements of our culture and heritage, to help tell the story of Nova Scotia's unique identity. That includes investments like the $750,000 contribution to the building of the new Black Loyalist Heritage Interpretive Centre in Birchtown on Nova Scotia's South Shore. That provincial investment is helping the Black Loyalist Heritage Society leverage contributions from other levels of government and other donors to build a centre that will tell the story of the black loyalists for current and future generations.

 

I had the honour and privilege to have a tour of that area and the initiative they're bringing forward is tremendous. They really were able to get the support of the public through private donations which I think overwhelmed them in recognizing the support for this initiative. I look forward to the completion of that centre. I think all Nova Scotians will benefit from it. When the centre opens in 2013, it will be an important addition to the provincial museum system and tell the story of a unique aspect of our heritage, one that we need to celebrate and one that we need to ensure that all Nova Scotians know about.

Another example, Mr. Chairman, is the support for the nomination for Grand Pré to be designated as a UNESCO World Heritage Site. The province has committed financial resources to support the nomination for designation and has established the means to support the ongoing management of the site should the nomination be confirmed later this year. Also, many people in Nova Scotia have supported that initiative and we look forward to hopefully having a successful bid and recognizing our Acadian history and heritage here in the province.

 

I would like to acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the people who make up the team at Communities, Culture and Heritage. Being part of that team is an honour for me as minister and I've been impressed with their commitment to supporting the arts and culture community, the heritage sector, our museums, archives and libraries and our distinct cultural communities throughout the province.

 

I also want to thank the members of these groups for contributing so much to the health and well-being of communities across the province. In keeping with government priorities, they are making life better for families in every region of the province. Nova Scotians want their government to live within their means so that's why we're able to support programs and services that are important to them. It is no secret that our government is committed to living within our means and are on track to delivering a balanced budget this time next year but, Mr. Chairman, we're doing it through an approach that seeks to reduce government spending as we look for ways to grow the economy and increase revenue. Over the past year we have had opportunities to realign the department, to take advantage of more efficient ways to support the sector we serve without compromising funding to our most important partners.

 

The Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage has established a shared service unit, the secretariat. This pooled resources of a similar nature for more effective use in serving our partners. For example, rather than having business support functions such as marketing or Web development located in and serving only one division, we have established a functional team which will service all department divisions. This has enabled us to re-profile resources to provide services in areas that require more support while providing even a more robust assistance in other areas by pooling similar functions.

 

Mr. Chairman, Communities, Culture and Heritage is focused on helping government get back to balance by looking at innovative ways to continue to serve our communities without additional financial pressures. We want to help achieve this priority because it's important to Nova Scotians. That means we continue to make strategic choices about how we support our important sector to ensure their long-term viability and we are making the right decisions to ensure that government lives within its means. We are being strategic about how we invest our valuable financial and material resources in supporting making life better for people in the province.

 

Mr. Chairman, being strategic means working hard to be more efficient in our work while preserving continued and stable funding for arts and culture sector, public libraries and community-run museums.

 

Mr. Chairman, the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage is estimating its budget for 2012-13 to be $58,665,000. As I've mentioned, we've made strategic choices that contribute to government's efforts to get back to balance and we've made sure that funding that supports artistic achievements and valuable community resources like museums and public libraries is maintained.

 

Mr. Chairman, while the department is realizing savings in terms of its operational budget this year, those savings do not impact our support to community-run museums or the arts and culture sector. The savings we're making we're identifying through increased efficiencies and a reduction in administration expenses therein keeping with government's commitment to get back to balance through a balanced and prudent mix of greater efficiencies and strategic investments.

 

Mr. Chairman, we were able to make these savings because of the hard work and dedication of the team and department staff. They enable us to be even more strategic in how we invest in our sector while ensuring we are as efficient as possible.

 

The sectors supported by Communities, Culture and Heritage generate economic activity and provide a foundation for learning and strong communities that advances our government's commitment to create good jobs and grow the economy for the benefit of Nova Scotians in all parts of our province. Nova Scotia's artists, composers, craft people, performers, actors, writers and musicians continue to represent the leading edge of creativity in our country and on a global stage. This government recognizes how important the contributions of the arts and culture community are to Nova Scotians.

 

A year ago I was joined by the Premier to announce a five-point plan to build our relationship with the arts and culture sector and enhance the value of Nova Scotia's creative economy. This is part of the province's plan to make life better for families; it is further evidence of how we're doing things differently. The five-point plan is based on the input received from nearly 1,000 Nova Scotians who participated in a consultation in the Fall of 2010. It was influenced by the views of artists and organizations that advocate for them and live up to our commitment to give them a stronger voice in helping government determine its priorities for developing Nova Scotia's creative economy.

 

We've listened to the sector and are acting to ensure their voices play a role in guiding our support for arts and culture here in our province. The five-point plan includes: Status of the Artist legislation to recognize the importance of the arts to Nova Scotians; establishing Arts Nova Scotia, an independent body responsible for decisions on funding individual artists and small organizations; the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council, an evolution of the Nova Scotia Arts and Culture Partnership Council to provide advice to government and lead the development of a culture strategy, strengthening the sector to allow for dialogue and provide a place for artists to showcase and market their work; and establishing an interdepartmental committee to coordinate government's efforts to support arts and culture and address the needs and concerns of the sector.

 

There could be no mistaking that arts and culture builds a stronger community - $1.2 billion in economic activity and 28,000 direct and indirect jobs are dependent on arts and culture here in Nova Scotia. Our investment in this important sector directly impacts government's commitment to make life better for all Nova Scotians through good jobs and economic growth.

 

We are delivering on the five-point plan. Legislation to establish both the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council and Arts Nova Scotia was passed in the Fall 2011 sitting of the House of Assembly. The members of Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council, under the leadership of their chairman, Ron Bourgeois, are hard at work. They've begun to lay the groundwork for the first-of-its-kind cultural strategy for Nova Scotia.

 

The first board of Arts Nova Scotia, made up of 11 distinguished members of the artistic community, was appointed in March and they have begun the work of transitioning responsibility for $2.4 million in funding for individual artists and organizations that support them.

 

The board and its terms of reference were the result of the work of Arts Nova Scotia Transition Committee that included our colleague Pam Birdsall, the member for Lunenburg; Paul Caskey, an acclaimed choreographer and artistic director for Live Art Dance Productions; Leah Hamilton, a respected arts administrator and consultant with Genesis Consulting; and Christopher Shore, executive director of Theatre Nova Scotia. I want to thank them for their contribution to this key element of the five-point plan. I know all them have busy schedules but took time, especially through last summer, to meet and come forward and present terms of reference for Arts Nova Scotia to government and to myself. I want to thank them for that commitment and that hard work that all of them showed during that process.

 

Status of the Artist legislation was the very first bill introduced in the Spring sitting of the House of Assembly just a few weeks ago. With this legislation Nova Scotia has taken an important step to recognize the value of arts and culture to Nova Scotians. With the new legislation we will help ensure artists are treated with fairness and equity in our province and, Mr. Chairman, the interdepartmental committee has been meeting to look for ways to better coordinate the province's funding and support for this vital sector.

 

As Ron Bourgeois, chairman of the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council, said at the bill briefing for Bill No. 1, this is an exciting time for arts and culture in Nova Scotia, and I would agree Mr. Chairman. I am looking forward to continue to work with the arts and culture sector and the people of this department to advance our five-point plan over the coming year. We have worked hard over the last number of months to ensure that we were addressing all the points in the plan and I'm very proud that we are nearly completed on ensuring that those issues are dealt with.

 

Nova Scotia's heritage resources make a valuable contribution to communities and support lifelong learning. Through the Nova Scotia Museum system the efforts of local heritage groups and community museums ensure that heritage remains accessible to visitors and residents alike. The province's heritage strategy guides government in the important job of preserving and interpreting our heritage and supporting communities as they seek to benefit from the broad range of resources that are part of our legacy for current and future generations.

 

Mr. Chairman, we're supporting the work of communities to preserve their history and tell their stories to Nova Scotians and visitors to our province. Even as government works hard to live within its means we're providing continued and stable funding to community-run museums through the Community Museum Assistance Program. In 2012-13 we will be providing close to $1 million in grants to community museums, the same level of funding as was in 2011-12 budget.

 

As we go forward government wants to ensure that this unique and highly valuable program remains sustainable in the long-term. The department has undertaken a review of the criteria and evaluation system for the Community Museum Assistance Program aimed at doing just that. We have included dialogue with program participants as part of our review and look forward to continued success in strengthening community museums throughout Nova Scotia.

 

Mr. Chairman, as I mentioned earlier, the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage brings together a broad focus on our diverse culture and heritage. As an example the department is working with stakeholders in the community and government partners in our museums and archives to plan and present innovative and respectful programming related to the centennial of the Titanic disaster. The legacy of this tragic maritime disaster continues to resonate with people around the world and Halifax and Nova Scotia are at the heart of this enduring story.

 

With the Titanic 100 Society and the range of community partners, Halifax has developed the unique and stirring series of events to commemorate this tragic but important part of our history. Our team at the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic and the Nova Scotia Archives have worked extremely hard to put together new resources and augment existing ones to tell the story of Nova Scotia's connection to the Titanic to a truly global audience. If you've been around the city in the last few days I think everyone has recognized the amount of attention put on this tragedy. I think it was just yesterday I ran into a television crew from Germany so there is quite a bit of interest and I encourage all members to maybe participate in some of the events that are going to take place.

 

Mr. Chairman, their work has attracted an enormous level of interest from local, national and international media. That interest has been made possible as many people and resources of this department have come together to showcase what we have to offer those who are interested in the Titanic story and its legacy.

 

This is one example of how this department can raise the bar when it comes to preserving and celebrating our diverse culture and heritage. By breaking down silos and encouraging collaboration, we are strengthening the work of sharing our history with ourselves and those who visit our province.

 

An important piece of Nova Scotia's seafaring heritage is receiving a new lease on life as the restoration of the iconic Bluenose II in Lunenburg approaches completion later this year. Not only is the restoration securing an enduring symbol of our maritime heritage, it is also showcasing the talent and skills of the companies that have joined forces for this project. The restoration is letting the world know that innovation is creating jobs and the economic opportunities in rural Nova Scotia are strong and alive. That fits with the government's jobsHere strategy and it's creating a legacy of good jobs for people of Lunenburg and all Nova Scotians.

 

The eyes of the world are on Lunenburg. The construction work continues to be broadcast on the Internet 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I know people have taken advantage of that from all over the world and it's amazing how much interest is shown in the restoration of the Bluenose II. This attention will benefit the consortium of Nova Scotia boat builders that is using a mix of traditional and modern wooden boatbuilding methods to complete this historic project. The Lunenburg Shipyard Alliance, made up of Covey Island Boatworks, Lunenburg Industrial Foundry and Engineering and Snyder's Shipyard will be able to compete more effectively on future shipbuilding projects, thanks to their involvement with the Bluenose II restoration. Just a side note - these are three companies that used to compete against each other and recognize the importance of this work and this project and have come together. I know that they'll have future benefits from being involved with this project.

 

Working with these fine Nova Scotian companies means the benefits of this major infrastructure investment are staying in Nova Scotia, helping make life better for families by creating good jobs here in the province. Not only does this project mean that good jobs are being created, it also secures the future of our famous sailing ambassador and the benefit it brings to Lunenburg and the province. As we do this, this will draw attention to the importance of preserving links to our industrial past, to encourage a future that advances the well-being of all Nova Scotians.

 

As I mentioned, the arts and culture sector also supports the social and economic health of Nova Scotians. Working with members of the sector and organizations that speak for them, the department will continue to provide financial support to artistic and creative development. As government continues to keep this commitment to making life better, we will work with our partners in the arts and culture sector to ensure that creativity and artistic excellence continues to define who we are as Nova Scotians.

 

In a world where information is shared in the blink of an eye and people have an infinite choice for media content, ensuring our stories are heard and our distinct Nova Scotia identity is preserved can be daunting. That means our music, arts, literature fine craft and the people who bring creativity to life in the arts and culture sector are one of our most important assets for reaching the wider world with a unique Nova Scotia voice. They challenge our perceptions, encourage us to reach further and explore new ideas and make us stronger on every level. Staff of the department's Culture and Heritage Development Division will work hard to ensure that the arts and culture sector receives the support and attention it deserves.

 

The members of the sector are involved in the decision making process surrounding funding programs to ensure that artistic merit and creativity are the benchmark for awarding funding. I extend my appreciation to them for their dedication to not only their own discipline, but the sector as a whole.

 

The work of implementing Nova Scotia's Responsible Gaming Strategy continues. Building on research and analysis, best practices from other jurisdictions and lessons learned in Nova Scotia, the strategy sets out a balanced and measured approach to our conduct and management of gaming in the province. The strategy takes seriously our responsibility to reduce the harm that problem gambling can cause. In keeping with the key commitments in the strategy, the My-Play system for VLTs used - a North American first, I may add - recently became mandatory in Nova Scotia for anyone who wants to use the machines, coupled with our commitment to slowly reduce the number of VLTs, through attrition, and sharpening the focus on research and problem gambling, we are ensuring that Nova Scotians continue to lead on responsible gaming.

 

I might add that with that system coming in play as of April 1^st, I'm very proud that it was developed and is provided by a Cape Breton company and we continue to support them also.

 

Mr. Chairman, preparations continue to transition the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation into the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. The transition will ensure that Nova Scotia will have a modern and efficient approach to the conduct and management of gaming in the province.

 

On a broader note, our professional team of people in the department will be working to enhance the relationship with our sector and stakeholders as they pursue our plans for the coming year and I look forward to being part of that team.

 

Mr. Chairman, it is exciting to be part of building a vision for strong, healthy communities through this new department. I believe we made a good start down the road and we are positioned for success in the future ahead.

 

Before I conclude, Mr. Chairman, I want to introduce my staff members. Joining me today are; Deputy Minister Laura Lee Langley and Finance Director Joyce McDonald. They will assist me. Also standing by are a number of people within the team who I'll introduce as they join me through the questioning process. I am now pleased to take any questions.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, minister. Welcome to the committee and the staff. You certainly have a wide-ranging set of responsibilities and I look forward to hearing more about it. We will start with the Liberal caucus.

 

The honourable member for Bedford-Birch Cove.

 

MS. KELLY REGAN: Thank you very much and thank you for bringing your staff in today, minister, particularly your deputy minister who I worked with - I think it is 20 years ago. Last year's total estimated budget was just over $55 million and the forecast came in just below that but this coming year's estimate is for more than $58 million. I'm wondering why the significant increase, if you are expecting to spend more in next year's budget and on what exactly?

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for the question. No question, I think any minister would be excited to get an increase in their budget. It doesn't often happen, especially while we're continuing to try to get back to balance. It's our key role, as government today, is ensuring that we get our finances in order.

 

The reflection of the increase that we're going to see in the coming year is the direct result of a new program that we are presenting and are going to have offered for Nova Scotians is a $2.3 million project which will increase the ability to address those community groups, individual or organizations that might want to improve the community, as a whole, will now have access to a community grant program that will hopefully address some of the issues that we've seen over the last couple of years, where we have been unable to address or support them. It's the Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Fund.

 

MS. REGAN: So would I be correct in assuming that some of that money will go to support jobs and some will go to support improvement projects?

 

MR. WILSON: On our Web site in the department we actually have the criteria. It is called the Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Grant. What we're trying to focus on is ensuring that, especially in rural communities, that any work being done to improve a community centre, for example, are taking advantage of hiring local individuals to do that work and that's why the program is brought forward in that kind of title, it's to improve a community or a community group or a public space but it's also trying to ensure that we create good jobs.

 

The program invests in community projects initiated by local not-for-profit organizations which enhance existing key facilities, public places and strategic initiatives within Nova Scotia communities. The emphasis is definitely on ensuring and hopefully creating some support for community jobs within that project.

 

MS. REGAN: Is there a cut-off date to apply or is it sort of a revolving fund?

 

MR. WILSON: We have a set budget for the year and we're accepting applications at any time. What we're hoping is to be able to respond in a timely manner and our goal is to within a month or so get back to that organization and, you know, either work with them to see if we can improve what they're asking for or making sure that they meet the criteria for the program. So it's going to be continuous throughout the year. Of course, it's a determined budget so eventually it may run out of funds but we're hoping to have a quick turnaround on that and work with the groups to ensure that we can support them with the initiatives they bring forward.

 

MS. REGAN: On Page 4.3 under the Office of the Minister and Deputy Minister, last year's estimate was $450,000 but the actual came in at $526,000. I'm wondering why the big difference between the estimate and the forecast?

 

MR. WILSON: Actually, yes, the difference in that is now under the department. The salary for the minister's executive assistant will fall under the new department so that's the reason for the increase.

 

MS. REGAN: So last year's estimate did not include this person and this year's estimate does?

 

MR. WILSON: Sorry about that, I knew I knew the answer and I had to make sure I had it clear. Last year, prior to last year, Minister Paris had two departments and he oversaw this department. So there was no executive assistant at that time. He had one, he didn't have two executive assistants.

 

MS. REGAN: The estimate for 2012-13 is even higher at $538,000. Are you planning to add more staff to the minister's office and, if so, what would those positions be for and what roles will they fill?

 

MR. WILSON: The reason for that increase of course is to reflect the salary of the new position, the one position which is the executive assistant that wasn't there last year in estimates because, as I just mentioned, Minister Paris had one EA. Also, it has the cost of living increase of about $13,000, so those two additions to the salary of the new executive assistant position that we have to account for plus an increase in the salaries is $13,000. So that's the reason for the increase.

 

MS. REGAN: On the same page, Page 4.3, the Communities, Culture and Heritage Department shows a significant increase for next year compared to what was estimated for last year. In fact, the forecast came in lower than the estimate for 2011-12 and the forecast reads $9,167,000 but the estimate for 2012-13 is $13.9 million. So it looks like the increases are coming in the communities and development programs. So I'm just wondering what plans you are making for culture and heritage development, in what areas of the province would those be, what programs, and is this tied to new employees within the department?

 

MR. WILSON: What we've done with the new department, of course, with the transition into creating the responsibility of that part of the department, one of the things is that's where the new Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Fund will be located. So that's a $2.3 million increase. Also, next year we are hosting the 25^th Anniversary of the ECMAs so we have an increase there of roughly $225,000 to facilitate that. Also transferred into that department would be the responsibility for the Discovery Centre, transferring from Economic and Rural Development and Tourism.

 

Also Arts Nova Scotia salaries - so the new, independent body that will oversee funding for individual artists and small organizations, we've committed to covering the cost of the position of the director. So the department has agreed to cover that cost so that we would not impact the funding that goes to artists. Those are the reasons for the increase within that part of our department.

 

MS. REGAN: On Page 4.4, Archives, Museums, Libraries Nova Scotia sees a decrease from this year's forecast at $36 million to next year's estimate of just over $33 million. In view of the comments that you just made about the importance of libraries, what cuts are you planning to bring in to bring that budget down nearly $3 million?

 

MR. WILSON: To the programs that we deliver there's actually no cuts to the programs, as I mentioned in my opening statement. One of the things we did do there is we transferred the museum building maintenance to the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal. Also, part of what we're doing with the Black Loyalist Heritage Centre, the operating grant is under this, but mostly it's the transfer of the museum building maintenance to Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal is the major amount of that funding reduction there.

 

MS. REGAN: How much of that almost $3 million would be building maintenance?

 

MR. WILSON: Actually, the biggest portion of it is the transfer of Culture and Heritage development; the salaries and expenses and the grants, will be moving to another section. That's 5.5 FTEs that have moved out so it would be about $2 million with the salary changes. If you look through you'll see an increase in that section of the department. Also, salaries and expenses were transferred to the secretariat, so about 15.8 FTEs were transferred from what was under this department last year to the new secretariat that's created. That's over 20 positions that have moved and also the transfer of the building maintenance of the museums.

 

MS. REGAN: I noticed that Archives shows a significant reduction from this year's forecast to next year's estimates. That's a reduction of almost $400,000 and that's a lot for our provincial archives - why are we cutting this sector and what exactly is being cut?

 

MR. WILSON: That change is actually the transfer of the maintenance of the building and also the staff. It's all the internal changing on how we account for those positions. They are changed over to the secretariat that's created under the new department. It's not in the programs that they provide, it's the transfer of the maintenance and the salaries to shifting them under a new line.

 

MS. REGAN: So is the same thing happening at the Nova Scotia Museum because there's a big reduction there? That's the staff?

 

MR. WILSON: That's right, the staff numbers have shifted over to the secretariat.

 

MS. REGAN: So there are no cuts at all to the funding going to these organizations?

 

MR. WILSON: No cuts at all.

 

MS. REGAN: On Page 4.5 under Executive Director, next year will be the first year and it's estimated at $299,000. What will this funding be used for, what will the executive director's office do?

 

MR. WILSON: It was just salaries that were transferred into this department so there's no new money, so again with the shifting of which department or which category they would fall under. So there's no new money, it was just a transfer of those line items for salaries, benefits, operating costs.

 

MS. REGAN: Policy is also getting a large increase from last year's forecast, going from $323,000 to $436,000, an increase of $113,000. I'm just wondering what that is for?

 

MR. WILSON: Sorry, could you repeat that?

 

MS. REGAN: Policy is also getting an increase from last year's forecast, going up $113,000. I'm wondering what that is for and is it for other positions at the department?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, what that reflects is also this transferring in from what was in the past. So all those figures, the new secretariat is kind of the area where all those positions have been placed. So the amount of money that was there last year comes with that. So there has been no increase to the amount that they receive or that they had last year but it's just housed under a different line item because of the new structure of the department.

 

MS. REGAN: So would that be for staff or would it be for programs?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, that would all be for the staff who reside under the secretariat.

 

MS. REGAN: And is that the same thing with Strategic Planning? It appears to be in its first year and it's estimated for $453,000. I'm just wondering what the mandate is there?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, the increases you see there are the result of all the personnel that have moved in from Archives, from the museums, and all the amount that follows with them last year is the same amount as this year. So that's why you'll see a significant increase here. You can go to the other, if you can go to last year's budget, if you were to compare it, you would notice the same decrease. So it's really just transitioning it into the new secretariat. I would like to say it was all new money put in there but it's not.

 

As I mentioned in opening remarks, we've been fortunate to be able to maintain and keep our funding stable to organizations and to the areas that we provide support for within Nova Scotia. So really what we've done here, as you see, you note an increase because it's new because it wasn't there last year but it's a consolidation of the work that they did in the past. They were spread out amongst the different divisions and the structure of the former structure of the department. Now we're going to reside them in one. So you'll be able to see in future years the continuity of the exact numbers of FTEs and the funding that goes towards policy in the other line items that you noted.

 

MS. REGAN: I'm looking at Communities, Culture and Heritage Marketing and Promotion. It looks like its first year. It's budgeted at $761,000 which is quite a bit of money so I'm just wondering what are the plans for this division?

 

MR. WILSON: Similar to your past question, what we've done is we've transferred in the salary and expenses from Archives, Museums, Libraries Nova Scotia, into the secretariat. There are six FTEs that have moved over to this area here, also the salaries and expenses that have moved into the new secretariat, so it's all transferring from other sectors or other departments that we had in the old structure.

 

MS. REGAN: So what would that money be spent on?

 

MR. WILSON: What we'll use that fund for is marketing and other web resources. One of the commitments we made in the five-point plan is to ensure that we have a web presence for our artists, for example, to showcase some of their work. Under the secretariat that's where that initiative will fall so that those funds allocated towards that will go towards the marketing and the web presence that we're trying to enhance. I think everybody recognizes how important it is to have the ability, especially for some new artists who might be in some rural communities. We're hoping that we can give them the opportunity to present some of their work through the department Web site, for example, so that is where that funding will be used for.

 

MS. REGAN: I'm thinking about the CAP and the cancellation of the CAP. I know in many rural areas it's difficult to get access to computers and often to Internet. I'm wondering, I mean at this point it looks like the program is done federally, would it be your department that would be looking at picking that up or would that be Economic and Rural Development and Tourism?

 

MR. WILSON: Under ERDT they've done some work there. We recognize the importance of Internet service, that is why, within the community libraries, we have a program that we support and pay for the Internet connection that they have. No question, I agree with you and maybe because it's not our federal Parties that have made those cuts. The CAP sites are extremely important to rural communities and not everybody has a computer at home and we know that. It's unfortunate we see that but far too often, especially in the last number of years we've seen cuts made by the federal government that ultimately they come to the province seeing if we can support the missing funds or the missing initiatives that were brought forward from the federal government. Unfortunately, no secret, we're trying to get back to balance ourselves and we're taking kind of a more balanced approach on trying to do that and it's unfortunate but it's something that we're going to have to continue to look at but unfortunately right now, our department wouldn't be able to cover the cost of those CAP sites.

 

MS. REGAN: Well, Mr. Minister, since I have you here right now if I could just make an impassioned plea for the necessity of the CAP sites. I realize that it wasn't your government that cut it and I'm sure you wish they hadn't but if there is any way when you're discussing this at the Cabinet Table if you could underline how important it is for people who are seeking jobs. Also for those who are trying to survive on low incomes to be able to be connected so they can lift themselves out of that position.

 

I would appreciate it because it seems to me that this is a service, while many people do have computers and many people do have access, it's quite expensive and for many families it's unfortunately just a luxury they cannot provide. I think for a province that is trying to make sure that we are well connected and we are - you know the job centres, if you want to look for a job now you don't go to the job centres like we did back when I was a high school student - not when you were but back when I was high school student. (Interruptions) But, you know, nowadays when you go into a job centre they say well here is the Internet and I just think for us not to have that service for folks is very disappointing. Not to mention people who are travelling and sometimes you just can't get access.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Minister do you want to make a comment on that, it is an important issue.

 

MR. WILSON: I do remember looking for a job at the employment centre in Bedford when I got out of high school. But as I said in my opening remarks one of the commitments we have made and have been making is around the connection to the Internet through our libraries. We do support that - we invest $310,000 a year providing those funds to ensure that our libraries have the connection to the Internet. I think that serves a lot of Nova Scotians because we all know there's close to - I think every community has a library in their community. If not, there's usually one close by and that's why we provided that program and we've continued to provide it for this year.

 

MS. REGAN: Information Risk and Business Solutions was estimated last year at $477,000 but the forecast was $454,000. However, next year it has increased quite a bit to $719,000. I'm wondering if you could tell me the reasons for the increase and is it job creation within the department or spending outside the department?

 

MR. WILSON: We did create one new position - a business analyst position - that was added to that department, but also we've transferred from Archives, Museums and Libraries a position. I believe that's the two positions that will note the increase in the budget.

 

MS. REGAN: Was there any spending outside the department? Was it spending on other things? Is it just salaries?

 

MR. WILSON: No, just the transfer of the salaries and benefits and the reorganization to move over.

 

MS. REGAN: I'd just like to move on to some policy and spending announcements from 2011. Actually, the first one is from 2012. The department announced $200,000 in funding from the Strategic Development Initiative Program. Can you tell us what this funding was used for and exactly which locations and organizations received the funding or has anybody received it yet?

 

MR. WILSON: That initiative is funds going to the regional library boards so that they can look at rural delivery of library services. No question, the last year when I was around the province to many libraries, especially in rural communities, how important they are, so we recognize that. The regional library board came to us and we've been working with them over the last year to try to ensure that they can maintain a library service, especially in small rural communities. We're very pleased to be able to support them in that and they'll be looking at how we improve rural library service and we'll bring back recommendations to the government, I'm sure, on how to best do that in the future.

 

MS. REGAN: Was that money to get staff to look at this? I'm not quite sure exactly what the funding - I get the big picture, but not how the money was spent.

 

MR. WILSON: How the $200,000 was spent?

 

MS. REGAN: Yes.

 

MR. WILSON: It was directly to them and they will go out and do a study on what service would best represent ensuring that rural library service can continue into the future. It's not us telling them, this is what you do with it. They'll come back to government eventually with what recommendations may be.

 

MS. REGAN: Did that go to all boards or was it just certain ones that got it?

 

MR. WILSON: It's the organization that oversees it. Hopefully what they'll come back with is to see what could possibly be some shared services that rural libraries could use to hopefully free up resources so that they could put more into programming, ensuring that they can meet the needs and the services that rural communities need. So it was the board itself that received the funding and they will work with the libraries that fall under them.

 

MS. REGAN: We were talking earlier about the Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Fund and I just wanted to talk a bit about how that fund is working. Have you had many applicants so far?

 

MR. WILSON: We have started to receive them. Any organization can go to the department's Web site, through the government Web site and the application form is on there, the criteria is on there and we're accepting applications now. We've had a lot of interest, I think, through it.

 

As I said, there's a limited amount of money for it. I wish the budget was bigger but that will be my role maybe next year, to try to see if I can get more money towards it. So right now, if you go onto the Web site, you can get the application, you can get the criteria. It's up to 75 per cent of a project, not to exceed $50,000 and there's also some criteria that organizations can look for and hopefully can see where they might be able to apply for it.

 

Saying that - and it's always hard to put on the maximum number - if you were to divide $50,000 into maybe 52 ridings, that would deplete the project with one project per community or per provincial riding. So what I've tried to do with organizations is don't just go and ask for the maximum amount. What we want to do is hopefully be fair and try to address a lot of the needs and shortfalls that some community groups or community centres may have.

 

I'd love to see a lot of smaller projects. Often, over the last year especially, we'd have a community centre that wanted to renovate a kitchen, for example. It might be a $5,000 project. We did not have any funds allocated for that. We didn't have a program within our department to help them. Often they try to fundraise but you know, I think like all members, they have limited funds. So that's the reason behind this program, to try to address some of those smaller projects that can't get funding.

 

Even though the application says it's up to $50,000, I encourage groups to try to keep them down a little bit because hopefully many organizations can take advantage of it and hopefully we can stretch that $2.3 million as much as we can, to hopefully touch a lot of groups and organizations with some of the projects they want to do within their communities.

 

MS. REGAN: Do you know how much has been spent so far?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes - nothing yet. The program came live April 1^st, so applications are coming in now. As I think I mentioned to you earlier in a previous question, I'm hoping about a month turnaround, maybe a little longer. It depends on if they're maybe missing something on the application. So I announced it, I believe in the House or I might have done a statement last December, when we came forward with the capital project initiative in December 2011. I mentioned then and did a news release in the media on the new program and that it would be available April 1^st. So as of April 1^st, we had it on-line and I know a lot of groups are looking at it now and I'm sure I'll be inundated with applications in the next little while.

 

MS. REGAN: Just in terms of the types of projects that would be funded - you mentioned like a kitchen renovation - can you give me an idea of some examples? I'm thinking there's a group in my riding that wants to build a skate park, for example, is that the kind of thing that could possibly be funded?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, definitely. The goal is to enhance outdoor space or a community centre, and the criteria is all on the Web site. We're trying to ensure that we support public spaces, for example, so a skate park would fall under that grant, where you probably have a non-profit group running the skateboard park. They can go through the application and hopefully be successful in it.

 

The key to it is trying to ensure that these community groups use local people to buy the product from, to do the work, so that we're creating work within the community, especially in rural communities. So I'm encouraging organizations to do that and reflect that in their application, so that we can ensure that the community as a whole is benefited, not only from the upgrade of maybe a skate park or a community centre but maybe someone in the community is getting a job out of it for even a short period of time.

 

MS. REGAN: On November 17^th of last year the MLA for Lunenburg announced a museum design study, it was worth $750,000, and I'm just wondering who was awarded this study?

 

MR. WILSON: That announcement was to deal with the Fisheries Museum of the Atlantic in Lunenburg. No question it's - how could you put it - on unstable ground maybe, there are some structural needs to the museum. If you're in it, you can actually see how part of it has shifted and we're continuing to monitor that. So that initiative actually came out of and is overseen by Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal but it's to address the structural need of the Fisheries Museum. No question, it's an older building but it needs some support to bring it up to I think today's standards when you come to a building, especially one that's right on the water.

 

MS. REGAN: So you don't have the information on who was awarded?

 

MR. WILSON: No, well, I can get you on who was awarded, we were just talking about that. We can't remember who it was but I'll get that back to you.

 

MS. REGAN: That's great, thank you. Just a final couple of questions on the Nova Scotia Online Forum that was announced on November 8^th; I'm just wondering how it's working out for the government. Have there been a lot of people commenting on-line?

 

MR. WILSON: We don't have the numbers on us but what I'll do is bring back the numbers of how many people have signed up for it and it's a forum that's available to all departments to use to try to get feedback. So we'll get those numbers for you because I know we'll be a little short today and we'll be back on Monday evening for more estimates. So we'll work on getting those numbers.

 

MS. REGAN: I'm just wondering if you think maybe this is a good first step towards accepting on-line petitions in the Legislature?

 

MR. WILSON: Well, we can all advocate to the Speaker to see if that rule is going to change and maybe I'll just leave it at that right now.

 

MS. REGAN: Okay, thank you. I would like to hand it over now to my colleague, the member for Kings West.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Kings West. There are about 24 minutes left in the Liberal hour.

 

MR. LEO GLAVINE: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and as the minister was providing my colleague with that last response around the type of program or the type of project that would be supported, before I start on some gambling questions as the area that I'm going to focus on but before that, would a historical, classical, rural community church structure that's now going through challenges such as the museum, would that be qualified at least to apply for some assistance?

 

MR. WILSON: One of the things we recognize is a lot of church halls, for example, you know, are used by the community more than just for that parish or that congregation. So if it's to deal with renovations to a sanctuary, they would not fall under the program but if it's maybe a community hall within a church, for example, that would be acceptable under the program and on-line you could read through it. It gives you exactly what might exit you in the program, it can't go to funding towards improvement to a sanctuary but if there's a community hall attached to it, a church or a faith building, then we're more than willing to look at that.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you very much, Mr. Minister, for that. So starting on the gambling questions, it was last year that the minister took over the responsibility for the province's Responsible Gaming Strategy and produced a document that came out on March 25, 2011. In that document it was stated it will "migrate the conduct-and-manage function for gambling from NSGC to a division within the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage."

 

So I had a number of questions. Has the migration taken place?

 

MR. WILSON: Joining me is Bob MacKinnon, he's the Acting CEO of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation. So we've worked extremely hard over the last year. We announced in the strategy, I believe it was February of last year, that we would be transitioning the Gaming Corporation into the department. There is a lot of work that needs to be done since we made that announcement and we've worked extremely hard to move that. As of today, it's not officially moved in. We are working extremely hard to ensure that we have all the necessary requirements through, for example, the CRA when dealing with taxation issues around the gaming portfolio.

 

One of the holdups is ensuring that what we have under the department satisfies the taxation requirements by the federal government. So we're working with them closely and hopefully in the next coming months we'll have that resolved but also looking at all the transitions of leasing - leasing of buildings, the lease requirements that we have, and also the personnel within and contractual obligations that we have where leases are in order that we could move those and not create any penalty. So we're close. In the next couple of months I think we'll really see a shift in that transition and we'll be able to publicly describe exactly how the makeup of the new identity is and how it relates to the new department.

 

MR. GLAVINE: So within this fiscal year most of those logistics will be looked after, is that a fair assessment at this stage?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, definitely. As I think I said last year when we announced this, we want to make sure we do it in the proper manner. It's not something you can do overnight especially since the Crown Corporation has been there for a number of years. I do anticipate that I will bring in some legislation in this session to try to reflect exactly what that makeup is. We're very close to that. I can't tell you when exactly but that's my hope, is to bring it in by the end of this session and then that will really give a better picture of the makeup and how it relates to our department and the structure that will be in place to oversee our interest in gaming here in the province.

 

MR. GLAVINE: There was no mention of gambling in the estimates and I'm wondering why that was the case?

 

MR. WILSON: I don't know what you mean - no mention of gaming in the estimates?

 

MR. GLAVINE: In terms of, you know, the breakdown of different cost structure within?

 

MR. WILSON: Definitely with the estimates we actually have the Crown Corporation Business Plan which was added to it and if you go through that business plan, it talks about what has happened in the last year but what the projected year will be. So under the business plan there was an addition to the estimates and then that's why it's still a separate identity. So it's still outside the actual estimate in a line by line item. So under the Crown Corporation Business Plan you can see the line by line and the breakdown of what the projections are and estimates are for next year.

 

MR. GLAVINE: What is the estimated organizational structure of the new division, in other words executive directors, support staff, et cetera, is that organizational chart in place at this stage as to how it will actually look and to whom will they report within the department once that structure is in place?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, we're just finalizing that structure now. No question, you'll see there will be a difference compared to what's currently there but, no question, it will report to the deputy minister who reports ultimately to the minister but we will hopefully have that in the near future on exactly what that makeup is and how it will be defined and how it will connect into the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Will the people working within this division be direct migration from NSGC or will there be some new hires involved?

 

MR. WILSON: With any change or movement with personnel we'll have to work closely with the Public Service Commission to ensure we do it in the right manner. We recognize the work that the employees have done so far with Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, they work hard every day to ensure our interest is at the forefront of any decisions that they make so we're going to take that into account. We want to be fair to everybody, this is not an exercise to just eliminate everybody that worked for the corporation, that wasn't the intention of it, and we're going to work with the existing personnel there to have that transition completed.

 

No question, I want to thank Bob and his team for the work they've done over the last year and those who have worked there over the years for keeping Nova Scotia's interest not only in gaming in Nova Scotia but at the Atlantic Lottery level where they oversee our interests in that organization. They've worked extremely hard and have been very accommodating to the transition; I know change is hard often for individuals, for employees and I think they've shown that they are very professional in the work they do and the support they've given our department up to now knowing that there is going to be a different makeup in the future. So I want to commend the people who work in there and Bob and his team for continuing to work in such a professional manner.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I was wondering in terms of Atlantic Lottery Corporation, which you just mentioned here, is this structural change in existence in other provinces or is it just a new approach that the Government of Nova Scotia sees as having advantages for the province with this new approach?

 

MR. WILSON: It's interesting, it's different in almost every province, and even across the country they have different makeups. For example in Newfoundland and Labrador they have, I believe, one or two individuals who oversee the interest for Newfoundland for Atlantic Lottery. New Brunswick has a different makeup similar to what we do, and PEI is a little bit different. We wanted to make sure the number one thing for us when we make the transition is to ensure that as a province that actually brings in the majority of the revenue for Atlantic Lottery that our interest is ensured, that it's at the table with Atlantic Lottery. It's a bit of all of the provinces but it's nothing that is out of the ordinary and it would be in line with what other jurisdictions are doing.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Is it early at this stage where it is in transition this year to talk about an anticipated budgetary allotment, would you be at that stage, do you have a budget that you will be working within this year or is it a little bit more open where the structure is changing?

 

MR. WILSON: We've actually kept the status quo, it's pretty much similar and if you look through the business plan you'll notice that the operational costs are similar. No question, next year may reflect there should be a difference and we'll be able to really truly see the difference in what those operational costs may be and the savings we're hoping to have. Currently it's the same as last year and there haven't been any increases.

 

MR. GLAVINE: On Page 8 the strategy also indicates that the cross-departmental Deputy Ministers' Advisory Committee on Gaming will continue to exist. Who comprises the current membership list of that committee?

 

MR. WILSON: The committee has been meeting, I'm glad to say that they are working to look at different initiatives and when we originally came forward with a list of the departments I have to note that one of the departments that we didn't have on it originally was the Department of Health and Wellness. I know Minister MacDonald right away mentioned that Health and Wellness should be there and we want to be there. I was glad to see that reaction around the table to this committee. I think it's important to have input and have different departments within government sitting at a table dealing and looking at issues that fall under the jurisdiction of gaming.

 

So we have Health and Wellness; Communities, Culture and Heritage; Aboriginal Affairs; Finance; Agriculture; and Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations. We have a wide range of departments within government who are committed to ensuring that key commitment we made in the five-point plan is worked on. I look forward to the results of their meetings and some of the initiatives they're going to deal with in the coming months and years.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I always try to give a 10-minute warning of time running out. There is 10 minutes remaining in the Liberal caucus hour.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Not to be too picky around details and so on but you were talking about the committee being active and meeting and so on. How many meetings would they have had in 2011-12, as an example of the work they are doing?

 

MR. WILSON: On average they're trying to meet once a month but it may be stretched to about six weeks. In the past year since we've announced it, they've met about 10 times, I believe. It's active and it's something that I think reflects the importance of the committee that we'll continue to have the input from the different departments and are willing to meet. It's very easy to cancel a meeting, as you are well aware of some of the committees meetings that we do have within government. I'm glad to see they continue to be active and move forward, try to meet almost on a monthly basis but it may stretch out to six weeks sometimes.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Is this committee bringing forth recommendations or are they actually a working committee that will deal with the structure, the new department, the division that we'll find in place here throughout the coming year?

 

MR. WILSON: I think the most important part of the committee is to ensure that other departments recognize what's in the strategy and when they go back to their departments that they ensure that the decisions they make and policies and changes they bring forward reflect what's in the strategy.

 

If there's an issue we might want them to discuss we could send that down to them. Most importantly, to ensure the departments recognize what's in the strategy and that they strive to ensure that decisions they make as an individual department reflect the government's position and the government's initiative within the strategy.

 

MR. GLAVINE: There's also a working committee of officials designed to assist and support the advisory committee. Who comprises that current membership of the support committee?

 

MR. WILSON: It's the senior officials from the departments I mentioned earlier who sit on that. It might be a deputy minister, it might be someone else appointed by the deputy minister of those six departments I just mentioned.

 

MR. GLAVINE: They meet on a basis similar to the advisory body as well?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, that's right.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Has the committee made any recommendations to the advisory committee and if so what would be an example of such a recommendation?

 

MR. WILSON: One of the projects they worked on is to ensure the timely implementation of the My-Play system which just became active April 1^st. That really took up a lot of the past number of months leading into that. It's an initiative that was in the strategy, it was important and I think we all recognize that we're trying to take the appropriate steps to ensure that any policy that we have within government is reflective of ensuring that responsible gaming is looked after. That's why we agreed to the My-Play system. The other thing that the committee will look at, and are looking at now, is considering a research priority list for the future and they'll continue to work on that and advise myself as the minister on where we need to go on gaming research.

 

MR. GLAVINE: On Page 8 of the document, it states, "The committee will also assist in the migration of the conduct-and-manage function to the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage." Have they provided some assistance in that migration to this point?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, no question, they have worked extremely hard on ensuring that we transition the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation in the appropriate manner. Not only in the strategy did we mention the transition of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, also through the Department of Health and Wellness, the former Gaming Foundation and a transition in the research capacity under that department. They've been working on both those transition initiatives that we agreed to do and they've worked closely with my deputy and with myself and the department as a whole.

 

MR. GLAVINE: The committee is also charged with addressing emerging issues proactively and you talked about a research priority list. Has anything been put in place at this stage or is that still a work in progress?

 

MR. WILSON: So far, no question, the last year they've been very active and the majority of the time that has been spent by the committee has been with the My-Play system initiative, also with the transition of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation. There's a lot of work at that and I think in the near future we'll see more initiatives come from the committee, but of course with the sheer magnitude of the changing of the structure that we have now into the one we're going to have into the future, it takes a lot of time and energy and required a lot of input from the different departments with the interdepartmental committee. The majority of the work has been dealing with that right now and I think we'll see soon signs of what they're going to be working on in the future.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Research that reflects Nova Scotian concerns, we've always seemed to be a bit wanting there. I know the foundation didn't always have the kind of financing and money to do some of the work that they wanted to do. The Department of Health and Wellness as well had some issues in terms of research. Maybe theirs was more about getting it out to the public. I'm wondering - is the plan to do adequate research and to be very transparent on what takes place? The history of the first couple of years and hopefully this new department and approach will, in fact, reflect what I hear from Nova Scotians and that is we need to know about prevalence of gambling; we need to know where we need to target some of our responsible gaming advertising and so on. I'm wondering if these are the areas that are going to be prominent with this particular committee.

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, I believe so. No question the direction for a lot of that research will come through the Minister of Health and Wellness who oversees that component. The structure we have - and it's purposely done this way - is to make sure that area of research is done by a different department than mine, for example, that are overseeing the revenue side of gaming here in the Province of Nova Scotia. We have a formula currently that results in how much money goes towards the research area. Of course in the gaming strategy we talked about the Nova Scotia Health Research Foundation will be managing the research component of gaming.

 

So currently we have a formula that we haven't changed, so it depends directly on the revenue brought in through gaming in the province and that money will be allocated towards the research.

 

Last year it was about $600,000 that went to the Gaming Foundation. So we predict it would be close to that this year, we estimate. It just depends on what the end revenue of the year is on how much money they get. So we did not change the formula and it's based on the revenue generated through gaming here in the province.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Although the strategy is clear about conduct-and-manage function, it is less clear as to who is responsible for social responsibility functions. Is it the department, or are you as minister now accountable for social responsibility when it comes to gambling?

 

MR. WILSON: No question, primarily it would be under Health and Wellness and the Nova Scotia Research Foundation but, no question, we all have a role in it and I think you can just look back at some of the initiatives that the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation has entered into and it will reflect that responsible gaming is at the forefront of all the decisions we're making, similar to the My-Play system decision when we went to initiate that. Originally we know that potentially there could be a drop in revenue due to an individual maybe not wanting to go and ask for a card to play the VLTs but I think we're willing to accept that and I guess next year we'll see what impact that has. I think everybody involved in the industry and in the sector are ensuring that we use a responsible gaming lens when we make decisions and we move forward.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: That concludes the Liberal caucus hour of questioning. I assume that you want to resume on Monday with Communities, Culture and Heritage.

The Progressive Conservative caucus has only 33 minutes remaining today and we will pick up with the 27 minutes on Monday - 33 minutes will give us the full four hours in the Red Room today.

 

The honourable member for Victoria-The Lakes.

 

MR. KEITH BAIN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and welcome, minister, and a special thank you to your staff for being here and helping to answer some of the questions. First off I'm going to apologize up front because some of the questions I ask might be ones that have been asked previously but I ask that you bear with me. Before I get into actual figures that are presented in the budget, I have a couple of broader questions I would like to ask you, minister.

 

The first one is concerning the Office of Gaelic Affairs. My constituency, as you know, is one that's very involved in Gaelic along with the neighbouring constituency of Inverness and Antigonish and so on. Since the formation of the Office of Gaelic Affairs, interest in the Gaelic language has certainly increased and it's no longer restricted to the Highland areas, I guess if I could say that, it has become province-wide. I think the office has done a tremendous job of promoting and preserving the Gaelic culture. I know in my constituency, and I'm going to use the Rankin School of the Narrows, they have Gaelic as part of their classroom preparation and teaching.

 

So I guess my question is, your involvement, your department's involvement or partnership, if I could, with the Department of Education in furthering this throughout the province, can you explain the partnership that you have with the department?

 

MR. WILSON: No doubt, I've realized in the last year after taking on this role and going around the province, I've had many opportunities to be in Cape Breton and experience the Gaelic culture and the importance of it, especially from Cape Bretoners and, as you said, it's not just in Cape Breton that interest is ongoing. We'll continue to work. As you noticed in this year's budget, our budget for the Office of Gaelic Affairs is pretty much stable. There's a little bit of change and if you ask later, I can get the information why it changed a little bit.

 

We use an advisory capacity to work with the Department of Education on where we need to support Gaelic language and Lewis MacKinnon who is the executive director of Gaelic Affairs has worked extremely hard. I think everybody knows and I'm sure you know how passionate he is around Gaelic issues and language and ensuring that Nova Scotians have access to that.

 

Our role is an advisory role with the department to ensure that we're trying to meet the needs and interests of Nova Scotians.

 

MR. BAIN: Thank you for that, minister. The Gaelic culture is very important, it would be interesting to know if Mr. MacKinnon has been teaching you any Gaelic to use when you're visiting cultural events in Cape Breton.

 

I'm going to move on to cemeteries that might hold some historical significance - I apologize to the deputy, maybe she thought I was going to ask more questions on that. These are just broad ones at this point.

 

Cemeteries across the province that hold some historical significance, I believe cemeteries do fall under your department. I guess what I'm looking at is the fact that some cemeteries in the province, although still being used by existing churches or communities, hold a great deal of historical significance. A lot of times their ability to maintain an existing burial ground that has these people is becoming a challenge to them.

 

I make note especially of Knox cemetery in Baddeck. In that cemetery we have descendants of the Bell family, the Kidston family - the founders of Baddeck buried in that cemetery - the McCurdy family and I could name a number of families that are buried in that particular cemetery. But it is still an active cemetery somewhat. Is there funding? Do they have to be a registered heritage property or is there funding to assist any of these active graveyards, cemeteries that they will be able to maintain the historical significance that's so important to the heritage of the Island?

 

MR. WILSON: No question, that's an area that has been often in the past where nobody really wants to deal with it. There are not a lot of programs to support organizations or individuals who have come forward with trying to ensure that cemeteries - especially some of the abandoned cemeteries - are looked after. That's one reason why I believe and it's my view under the new fund that we brought forward that we might be able to address some of the needs of some of these historic cemeteries. As long as they fit within the criteria, a non-profit organization and that you're trying to enhance public space.

 

I think everybody would agree, if you have a historic cemetery that is abandoned, we need to protect that. It's important to our history and to our heritage. No question under Special Places Protection Act, we have regulations and rules on trying to support that. Often we try to encourage congregations but we all know many congregations are finding it difficult now to maintain not only their cemeteries but their congregation. That's going to be a challenge in the future, we realize that and we're going to have to continue to try to work to ensure those places are protected and are kept in a certain manner that can reflect our history and our heritage.

 

As I said, the new fund that we announced in December that people can apply for now, I think could help assist some of these organizations. I think most groups that I've talked to over the last number of years who are trying to refurbish and clean up old abandoned cemeteries especially, are not for profit and they're community-run organizations. We're more than willing to look at supporting them but it's going to be a challenge.

 

The more we see these cemeteries abandoned, the more pressure there will be on everybody to try to support them. Under Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, they oversee cemeteries and there's a cemetery Act so that department works with existing cemeteries that are active ensuring they provide a certain service to the public. No question, those abandoned ones are going to be a challenge and will continue to be a challenge. I think by bringing this new program forward we can hopefully assist some of them on trying to bring back the importance of ensuring that communities know who really created and who lived in their communities and what our history and heritage is.

 

MR. BAIN: I guess the challenge that presents itself is the fact that some of these cemeteries, graveyards are active but also have historical significance. I guess the question might be - we know that over the years Veterans Affairs have searched for a lot of the more isolated graveyards where veterans are buried. There has been a lot of work done by Veterans Affairs Canada, especially through their local Legions and everything else to document these graveyards.

 

The challenge, the particular cemetery that I referenced is somewhat active, not totally active but it's active but it has more of a historical significance than being active at this point. You mentioned about meeting the criteria. Is one of the criteria that they have to be a registered historical or a heritage property, or is it open?

 

MR. WILSON: Not at all. They need to be a non-profit community organization, Communities, Culture and Heritage facilities with primary emphasis on community activities. As long as they're a non-profit organization that's overseeing it.

 

It's interesting, just recently in my own community, for example, I was unaware of an old cemetery that is abandoned and it's just off Lucasville Road. I was meeting with a couple of residents on a different issue when someone mentioned this abandoned cemetery. Actually, a lot of African Nova Scotians are buried there and in Lower Sackville, the Cobequid Road area was an African Nova Scotia community - which a lot of people weren't aware - that was quite a diverse community for many, many years. They were living there way before the government in the early 1970s decided to build thousands of homes out there.

 

There's a good example of myself, even as minister, unaware of an abandoned cemetery in my own community. I've committed to work with them to try to make sure the community recognizes the importance of the contribution of the African Nova Scotian community to not only the province but to my community and those around us. We have a presence in the Lucasville area which has a strong, rich African Nova Scotian history, Maroon Hill which is along that area too had a positive impact on the development of our province. I'm willing to look at that.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the application now for the new Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Program - I always look at it because we've changed the name a couple of times - is on our department Web site. The criteria is there, the application form and I encourage groups to come forward but I think it's important that we recognize that cemeteries are an important part of our heritage and that we need to take steps to support them. I would definitely look at those applications coming in and hopefully we can support them, so if you have one in your area let me know about it and we can maybe work with them to see what we can do to support them and get them some support to ensure that the people in your community, and the province as a whole, knows about the historical value of who is buried there and what they contributed to our province.

 

MR. BAIN: I'm sure the minister can be assured that that application will probably be on his desk within two weeks. I'm going to get into some budget figures here now but before I do that I want to make reference to a response you made to Ms. Regan about the $200,000 for the libraries. I guess my question is, there was a report, a library taskforce report that was presented to Minister More in 2009. I think the purpose of the taskforce was to do exactly what you're proposing is being done now. I'm going to ask why another study - if we want to call it a study - and where is the taskforce report that was submitted? What's the status of that and where is it?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, I'm aware of that report, it was presented to the government but the current initiative that the board had asked for is to look at how they can better share services to minimize the cost so that they can put more money into programming. This is an initiative that they came to the department for and we were very happy to be able to accommodate that. I think, as I said earlier, rural delivery of libraries is so important and there are challenges because when we see a decline in population and potential decline in the number of users or residents that use a library, there are challenges.

 

The current system, how the funding is allocated now is based on a formula of residents and based on population. It's not the best way, I think, to ensure that there is a proper service in rural communities. I think by undertaking this initiative, delivery of rural library services, as I said, is in decline and I think the library board recognizes that and I think they are going to come back with some firm recommendations and I look forward to that.

 

This was an initiative from the board itself asking if we could support them in trying to find ways to better share services amongst rural libraries and I think the impacts that they feel need to be addressed. I think they are going to come back with some ways that they can provide their members on how they can best improve and maximize the funds they do get. They are very appreciative of the money they get. Could we give them more or do they want more? I wish we could but in the financial environment that we're in right now, for us to maintain funding is a positive thing for them but we recognize that they have challenges so that's why we were more than happy to accommodate their request of the government.

 

MR. BAIN: I guess, minister, I have to ask then the status of the library taskforce report that I alluded to earlier, have any of the recommendations of that taskforce been implemented, where is the report now and what role does it play in the future of libraries in this province?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, we have it, we still use it, and actually from that study or that work that was done by the taskforce, there was an increase of $1.9 million towards the budget for library service in the province. So out of that there was some change. There was an increase in their budget and we continue to have that as a reference for the department and for the library services in the province.

 

MR. BAIN: Mr. Chairman, now I'm going to get into some of the figures that, again, I might be repetitive on but I'm going to ask them anyway. The department's budget, it's forecast to come in at $406,000 under budget for 2011-12 and, indeed, you and your staff are to be commended but having said that, I just wonder if you could explain why the budget is forecast to be up almost $4 million this year?

 

MR. WILSON: Definitely last year there was no reduction in the programming funding. It was savings within the department and I commend the deputy and my staff for ensuring that we find savings to try to assist in government's plan to get back to balance. The increase we're going to see in this year's budget, which I'm glad we're able to accommodate, one is to accommodate the new Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Program of $2.3 million, and of course, we'll see an increase with that being added to the budget.

 

We also are investing in other initiatives that are like a one-time investment. The ECMAs, for example, are going to be in Halifax next year. They currently, I think started today in Moncton, and next year will be the 25^th Anniversary of the ECMAs. So that's an additional $225,000 investment that we're going to make to host those awards next year. We look forward to welcoming our artists from Atlantic Canada and really the world and Canada. There's so much interest in the ECMAs. I attended last year's event in Charlottetown. I'm amazed to see the talent we have and can really say that even though it's the East Coast Music Awards, I have to say that the majority of the performers that are showcased there are Nova Scotians and a high percentage of those Nova Scotians are Cape Bretoners.

 

I've seen a young up-and-rising star from Cape Breton last year in Charlottetown, Carleton Stone, who I just saw last week with Bruce Guthro at the Songwriters' Circle at Casino Nova Scotia. He's going in the right direction but, you know, we're looking forward to hosting that next year. Also, with the changes in our legislation to create Arts Nova Scotia - the independent body that will oversee the funding to individual artists and small organizations - we've committed not to ask that organization to reduce any of the funding that goes to artists to cover the costs of the director. So in the legislation we've agreed to cover that cost for Arts Nova Scotia so that the director's position will be funded through our department and also there has been a change and a shift with the Discovery Centre. It used to fall under Economic and Rural Development and Tourism and will fall under our department now and that's a budget of about $220,000 a year. So that's the makeup of the additional costs to the budget this year from last.

 

MR. BAIN: Mr. Chairman, has there been money set aside for the anniversary of the Titanic celebration and if there is, how much?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, we're well on the way to supporting that. Of course, this weekend is the anniversary. I believe it's about $200,000 that we have allocated towards that commemorative weekend. We've kicked it off with a number of events over the last week or two. It's amazing to see the worldwide interest in the Titanic and what's going on. I'm very proud to say that we have three signature series events that we are putting on which are all free to the public, which I think is important.

 

I think far too often people can take advantage of events like this and I have to say it was well noted in the New York Times that Nova Scotia is really doing a great job at putting on these commemorative ceremonies and also that we're not out to make a profit from it. Some of the events that were on over the last week or two were trying to recover costs. For example, last Monday or Tuesday there was an event at the Rebecca Cohn, a concert event, in commemoration of the musicians that lost their lives on the Titanic. There was a charge at the door to recover that cost.

 

We had community partners, we've had companies - I believe that session was sponsored by - it was sponsored by somebody, I can't remember right now.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: If I could interject while you were pausing there, there is a bit less than 10 minutes remaining. I didn't want to interrupt the minister.

 

MR. WILSON: Sorry, it was Aliant and I apologize to Aliant for forgetting them. We've had great support from other levels of government, especially the public and our business community here in Nova Scotia. They recognize the world is here looking at what our connection is to the Titanic. I was mentioning in answer to a previous question, just yesterday I ran into a television crew from Germany that was down at the museum trying to talk to individuals who are here in Halifax to see what our connection is to Titanic.

 

We opened and kicked off an exhibit yesterday at the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic about cable ships and that involvement with the Titanic. The history of the cable ship industry here in Nova Scotia, I encourage everyone to go through the exhibit. One thing I realized is the hard life, I can imagine the environment those - mostly men, possibly could have been a few women but it was mostly men at the time - in the North Atlantic dealing with the cables that came across. It's unbelievable. Two of the cable ships played a role in the recovery efforts after the sinking of the Titanic.

 

We're proud of our involvement in it and as I said before, we have a series of events that are going on this weekend and hopefully what we can do is showcase the compassion that Nova Scotians have, our involvement in world events, especially tragedies like the Titanic.

 

MR. BAIN: I'm going to move on now. Your office, the deputy's forecast to be $76,000 over budget for 2011-12 yet the new fiscal year another $12,000 has been added. Could you explain why?

 

MR. WILSON: Definitely there is an increase. One is the cost of my executive assistant; last year's budget did not have that in there because Minister Paris actually oversaw two departments so he had one executive assistant that fell under the budget of Economic and Rural Development. That's the increase.

There's about $13,000 increase on cost of living for the staff within the office.

 

MR. BAIN: Culture and Heritage Development came in at $44,000 under budget at $9.1 million and now it's forecast to jump almost another $5 million. Just wondering an explanation for that one?

 

MR. WILSON: That's where the new program, Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement grant will be allocated. Also, the East Coast Music Awards and the Discovery Centre, those all fall under that new (Interruption) Yes, and the Arts Nova Scotia one, it's under that heading.

 

MR. BAIN: Department staff is expected to grow by 20 individuals this year, and at a time when the Premier says he wants to reduce the civil service by 1,000 people through attrition. So I guess I'm just wondering if you can explain the job descriptions and what these 20 new individuals will be doing and whether or not they're full-time positions?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, actually what that looks like, we have the estimates and the forecasts, we had 13 temporary vacancies last year. So the positions were still there but they were temporary. So out of that number, the 229 to 236, 13 were temporary vacancies. So those positions are filled now, so the increase in our department is seven FTEs, so we'll have an increase of seven individuals. One is, of course, the reorganization of the department and the restructuring we're adding five FTEs and with Arts Nova Scotia we've agree to fund the one position for the director for Arts Nova Scotia and one position was my executive assistant; so two of those positions are individuals and then five positions due to the reorganization of the new department.

 

So as we looked at the structure and came forward with what I think best fits delivering the services, we have an additional five but we're committed in the next several years to continue to reduce the number of FTEs within our department and we're on track with that but I think with any restructuring and the creation of a new department as the one we have now, we needed to make sure that there were individuals in the right positions to provide the service. I think we have the appropriate number but we are committed and we've committed to the government to look at reducing in the upcoming years the number of FTEs within the department.

 

MR. BAIN: So, minister, you're saying that the 13 vacancies have been all filled at this point. So that would, I guess if there were vacancies within that were budgeted, that would show why some of the deficits within the department have been improved, right, because they were actual budgeted but they won't expended in the past year?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, a lot of those positions weren't vacant for the whole year. So I think a total number, I mean when you're dealing with, you know, almost 250 employees, there are some positions where people have taken a leave of absence, there are medical reasons why somebody might not be in that position.

 

So there's always an influx. I think 13 is actually quite a low number if you look across government departments on, you know, staff turnovers and maybe them moving to another department to work in a different position. Of course, all positions are open within the bargaining unit of civil servants. So there is a fluctuation.

 

So that's what the 13, with the seven of course, one is my executive assistant that we have to budget for now, the other one is the Arts Nova Scotia director, but within the five, so five out of the seven, there are temporary positions in there to assist with the transition of the Gaming Corporation, that is a Crown Corporation which will then, in the near future, house within the department. So we have a couple of temporary positions with that and also what we've done is created the Communities sector within the department. So we have a couple of positions that needed to be filled for that. So with the addition of Communities to the department we had a requirement to fill a couple of positions there.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: That concludes the four full hours of Supply in the Red Room for today. The Progressive Conservatives used 33 minutes of the hour so when we resume on Monday, 27 minutes is allocated to the Progressive Conservatives before turning over to the Liberals. The Liberals do want more time.

 

Minister, thank you and we will see you back here on Monday. Thank you members and thank you staff.

 

We stand adjourned.

[The subcommittee adjourned at 1:15 p.m.]