HALIFAX, THURSDAY, APRIL 14, 2011

 

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE ON SUPPLY

 

2:00 P.M.

 

CHAIRMAN

Mr. Howard Epstein

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon. It is 2:00 p.m. and we are going to resume our deliberations with respect to the estimates for the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. When the committee left off yesterday, we were with the questioning by the Progressive Conservative caucus; they had another seven minutes remaining in their time allotment of one hour. I see no members of the Progressive Conservative caucus with us at the moment so I will now invite the Liberal caucus to speak. Mr. Leo Glavine.

 

MR. LEO GLAVINE: Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to resume questioning today around the gambling issue primarily. I was not here for your opening statement, unfortunately; I was tied up in the House. I'm wondering if you could provide a written copy of that opening statement.

 

Interestingly enough, Mr. Minister, there are still perhaps not just some of us but maybe Nova Scotians who are not exactly sure of the scope of your department; it does have some new aspects to that. I think that's important that all of us here in the House, and Nova Scotians, know more about that whole scope of the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

I did start off my questioning on VLTs and on the My-Play System. I know the whole issue around the socio-economic study and the report that was done by Mark Anielski is now coming back, of course, resurfacing, and it will be an issue in front of Nova Scotians over the next weeks. However, for now, your strategy is outlining the use of the My-Play card but it has two versions of it. I'm wondering, what study or information is at least some foundation for making this decision and moving this into a mandated program within the strategy?

 

 

181

 

HON. DAVID WILSON: Mr. Chairman, thank you for the question. No question, when we were looking at the results of our consultation that had taken place throughout the province, we had a great number of submissions that included information and issues around the My-Play System.

 

This system, of course, is not new to Nova Scotia. It's been around for a number of years, through the research conducted in 2005 and 2006 in Windsor, in the Mount Uniacke area. So information from that study, that research, was looked at when we were creating our gaming strategy that we just released a couple of weeks ago or about a month ago.

 

The My-Play System is a world-first lottery Informed Player Choice System and we're very proud of that. I think it indicates to the world that Nova Scotia - the businesses and the companies that work here are innovative. They are looking at programs and initiatives that we believe will minimize the negative impact of gaming and the negative impact gaming has on some individuals who partake in gaming in Nova Scotia.

 

It was a decision of the government to look at this system and adopt it. As I indicated earlier on in some of the questions that I had, we're going to have a mandated enrolment of April of 2012 for the system, so it will be a mandatory system in Nova Scotia after April 1^st of next year. Anybody who wants to take part in VLT use will be required to use a My-Play System card.

 

Of course we recognize that some of the input and some of the consultation that we took and had throughout the consultation process - we wanted to make sure that not only retailers but players were informed and had the factual information about the My-Play System and I think the benefits that will come with the mandatory enrolment of the system province-wide on VLTs, Mr. Chairman. There are a number of things that the My-Play System can address and can contribute to improving the responsible gaming strategy that we have, I think. It is a responsible gaming tool. It's no secret, and I would not be here and indicate that it will eradicate individuals who have an addiction to gambling. It's a tool that individuals can utilize.

 

Some of the key things that this system will allow individuals to have access to is historical information on total money spent on that machine, Mr. Chairman. Most importantly, I think the time that you have spent at the VLT for a period of that day, or you can look at your historical information on how much time you've spent utilizing a VLT in a week or in a month or in the past year - I think that's an important aspect of the My-Play System. Also, it's going to have the ability to set spending limits for, just as I said, that day or that week or that month.

 

I think I've said this before, I think it empowers individuals to recognize and take control of their gaming habits. Often we hear people didn't realize how long they were sitting in front of a machine, I think the My-Play System will benefit those individuals to take a second look at their habits and, hopefully, if their habits have gone to the area of possible concern for them or for their families, that they can take action to change their habits.

 

Another aspect of the My-Play System is to allow for the ability to immediately stop play, restrict your play for 24 hours, 48 hours, or 72 hours, which is an important tool and I think something that once players see the benefits of the My-Play System, they'll initiate those tools on the My-Play System. I think that overall the My-Play System will be a benefit to those individuals who utilize VLTs in Nova Scotia. I think it's just one of the tools in the gaming strategy that we announced that will be a positive thing for Nova Scotians.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you, Mr. Minister, for the answer and thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was wondering when the My-Play brochure went out to the Legions and the bars and whether or not this is part of the current education process or whether this has been here prior to the strategy going out?

 

MR. WILSON: That information had been provided to retailers prior to the gaming strategy. One of the things - by allowing retailers to have that window of the next year - to ensure that their employees, for example, know the changes that are coming, that they are informed, that they are educated - that's going to be part of the process of implementing the strategy over the next year. That's why we felt it was important to have that kind of leeway, to ensure that retailers have all the proper information, if they have any questions or concerns that they can get a hold of the government, they can get a hold of our department, get a hold really of the experts on the My-Play System, so that we can address their concerns, that we can really address a lot of the uncertainties around the program.

 

I truly believe that once retailers and players educate themselves on the benefits of this system, that it will be well received. I think we've made a measured and balanced approach on the requirement of a mandatory enrolment in the My-Play System by allowing that time over the next year.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I was wondering when this particular brochure came into circulation because I would think now the gaming strategy is going to impact on April 1, 2012, and it does have two streams, if you wish, of the My-Play System. I don't think there's anything in this document that relates to that decision so I'm wondering how long this has been available and would you be planning to change this, update the brochure, and have you had any feedback on this particular brochure as far as the bars, the Legions, and the locations of where the My-Play System is available?

 

MR. WILSON: Actually I believe that brochure was out in the Spring/summer of 2010. Just so we're clear and everybody is clear, the My-Play System has been in place on all VLTs as of March of last year, I believe. So it has been a year where every VLT in the province has the My-Play System on it. That's why I think with the release of the strategy, it puts more of an emphasis on those retailers and those players to educate themselves about the system and encourage them to learn about the benefits that will come when this system is up and running and activated in April 2012; by activated, I mean fully mandatory. It's activated now, individual players can take advantage of this system currently and they could and have been since last year.

 

So I think the timeline is appropriate and we're going to continue over the coming months to ensure that we have, or retailers have all the most appropriate up-to-date information about the My-Play System, and I would think that they'll have additional information that will include the brochure you're talking about now, but additional information we're going to be providing to retailers across the province.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Excuse me, I wonder before we continue with the questioning if either the questioner or the minister might describe in a little more detail exactly what document it is that's being discussed. I noticed the original question referred to this brochure and I'm not asking that it be tabled, of course - just perhaps a name might be given to it or a description.

 

MR. GLAVINE: The brochure we're talking about is the My-Play System player brochure - making informed decisions responsible, Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation responsible gaming. I wasn't sure if we had the same rules as in the House whereby we can't really use brochures and things to get our point across.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: This is fine. I was just thinking of any ultimate transcript.

 

MR. GLAVINE: No, that's right. We all know that if the system is going to be effective, if it is going to do the job that it's intending to do, then I think we will need to make sure that it is available and people know about it and so on.

 

I'm just wondering where it has been around for a year, prior to developing the present strategy, did you collect any information on the rates at which people were using the brochure, engaging, and also the more important question, engaging in the My-Play System as it currently exists?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, definitely we looked at the information - we have information around the number of individuals who are utilizing the My-Place System. That definitely played and contributed to our decision as a government to make the decision to make it mandatory. I would say that those numbers, yes, are low and that's why I think with the strategy and coming out with the decision to make it mandatory - well, of course, those numbers are going to increase 200 per cent come April of next year. So, yes, that information was available to us. It was used in the decision of including the My-Play System in the gaming strategy that we released a number of weeks ago.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Just from a quick little survey in my area, the foundation for the question was that when I did take a look at one Legion and two locations in the Kingston/Greenwood area - I'm just wondering if you have any statistics on how low because the subjective picture that I received was that, you know, it was extremely low. I know that between now and April of next year we will have to, I think, find ways to try to engage the gambling population so that they can make a choice about which one would benefit them. We know that anything along the mandatory system - it sounds from the research that it would be the best way to go, but that's not necessarily required on a two-stream system.

 

MR. WILSON: Mr. Chairman, definitely the government will work with key partners to initiate a province-wide marketing campaign designed to dispel some of the myths around or associated with the My-Play System and with the card system. We're going to ensure that people have the right information and the correct information. Currently in the information that we have there are approximately 2,700 individuals who use the My-Play card system currently which is less than 10 per cent of those who use VLTs in the province. So it was a key contributor to our initiative of including this in our gaming strategy.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I guess before I do leave this aspect, I'm still wondering when you had the best information available so far, and we know that this is a new tool to help with responsible gambling but the information that we received, and I know that work is part of your understanding of My-Play - why didn't you go to the full mandatory registration in terms of a one-card process? It's also my understanding that if we're really going to gain a handle on where to go around VLTs with another gaming strategy, we may be missing out on a lot of good data that will be collected under the card where you will do a full registration?

 

MR. WILSON: Mr. Chairman, no question, through the consultation process we heard from a number of organizations, a number of individuals, retailers, players. We tried to ensure that we approached the gaming strategy with a balanced view on gaming in Nova Scotia. I think we've achieved that. If you go through this strategy, you could pick one thing out, yes, and you'll have somebody maybe dispute that initiative. But I think as a whole when you look at the whole gaming strategy and you look at all the initiatives in it that we're trying to address and trying to bring forward, I think it's the most appropriate strategy to bring forward at this time.

 

When it comes to the My-Play System and the light and full enrolment, no question, the concerns we heard through the consultation process was around players' privacy concerns. As I mentioned earlier, part of the initiative over the next number of months is to ensure people have the right information and to address some of the myths around the My-Play System, around the concerns with privacy when it comes to someone enrolling fully in the My-Play System.

 

I mentioned earlier - I believe it was a member from the Third Party asked the other day on a question around the card system - that the card system is important. As I said, every player will have to have a card to play the machines come April 1^st and when you go up to a retailer and ask for a card, with the full enrolment, all you have to do is provide a piece of identification, like a driver's licence. You swipe it like a bank card or an ATM card on a console or on a screen. It then encrypts that information immediately which is not given back to the government; we don't know who it is. It encrypts that information onto the card which then you enter a personal pin card, just like an ATM card, just like information on your credit card, and you can go and proceed to a VLT. That process takes at the maximum 10 - 15 seconds. I was quite impressed when I had a visit to Techlink down in Cape Breton, who actually showed me how to enrol in the My-Play System. That allows an individual to have all the benefits of the My-Play System - to set their limits, to keep track of their history, to take advantage of some of the highlights of that program.

 

We recognize that some people had concerns around the privacy so the light enrolment - the only thing that's missing there is the swipe of your identification. You go in, you get a card to play the machines, you enter a PIN number and you can gain access to all those benefits of the My-Play System. The only difference would be, of course, if you lose that light card enrolment, you can't retrieve your gambling history. You can start over, no question, and that's why I think through the process we're going to encourage individuals to fully enroll in the My-Play System because if you do lose that card you have access to all your information, you have access to your history but, because of the privacy concerns, we understood it and we took that into account and that's why we're going to roll out a two card system next April, when this becomes mandatory.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you, Mr. Minister. Just for clarification, you did say in terms of enrolment using a piece of information and on the brochure it talks about two pieces of information. Has that changed or is that actually the case?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, you are correct on that. What you need is an identification card, like a license that has the strip on it that you can use on the console and you just need another piece of identification to verify that it is you who is enrolling in this program. So it is correct that another piece of identification - just to ensure that that's the individual applying for the card.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you, Mr. Minister. I know that on a lot of responsible gambling issues Nova Scotia has certainly taken a lead. When I think back to the lottery issue that was brought forth from the public in Ontario and how quickly we responded in Nova Scotia to deal with the retailers around that issue. I feel that we've always worked to ensure the public that there are high measures of controls and safety and so forth.

 

In regards to this system, yes, we've been leaders here. I'm just wondering what other jurisdictions are using or looking at the My-Play System?

 

MR. WILSON: From all indications, it is our understanding there is no jurisdiction in North America that is using this system and that's why I've stated in the past that this is a first for not only our country but for our continent here in North America. There is not the same system but similar systems currently in Australia and Norway, I believe. But they are not the My-Play System.

 

I know the company that created this system - Techlink, down in Sydney - have been approached by a number of countries, especially in Europe. I don't think it's any secret that they are having some talks with the country of Greece, for example, who have well over 20,000 VLTs in their country, that had not regulated gaming and through their Parliament now are changing the rules and ensuring that gaming is regulated in their country and TechLink is in the forefront, if not the system that they're going to put in place there. That is a great opportunity for a local company, for a Cape Breton company. I think I've mentioned that in the House before, that this is not only a Nova Scotia company but it's great to see a Cape Breton company thrive like this.

 

There have been inquiries around the world about the My-Play System and about some of the initiatives we have brought forward in Nova Scotia over the last number of years. The Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation has worked extremely hard over the last number of years to ensure that they continue to bring forward positive initiatives and one of them is BetStopper. (Interruption) It's called BetStopper which is a free software that parents can put in place in their computers that stop any access to gaming sites on their home computers which I think, again, was a first in our province, a first in our country, and jurisdictions around the world are looking at that type of program to take part in and to have in their jurisdiction.

 

So I think it's important to recognize the work that we've done in the last number of years around responsible gaming and I think with our strategy, we're taking it to the next step to ensure that we continue down the path of being a world first when it comes to responsible gaming here in Nova Scotia.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I'm wondering if you could give a figure on what the investment has been so far and the annual amount that will be required in order to keep the My-Play System on all of the VLTs in the province. I think having a sense of where we are and where we will go during the current gaming strategy will give Nova Scotians a sense of the investment and a hope for returns on this system.

 

MR. WILSON: No question, there is a cost to implementing the My-Play System. It's something that we have recognized and we have placed over a number of years. So it's not an upfront cost, it's not a one-time cost. The cost for this year is estimated to be about $4.1 million and that's similar to last year's. It's a five-year agreement with the company to provide the support for the My-Play System. It will be about $20 million to $25 million over a five-year period and just to make sure that people understand where that money comes from, that money comes directly from those who play VLTs in the province; it comes from them. So this year it is going to be approximately $4.1 million.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Will the My-Play System be on the Aboriginal sites? Will it be at the casinos? Is this for the entirety of Nova Scotia because as we all know, there has been really, I guess, two rules of the road in Nova Scotia in some regards in terms of at least the kind of hours and the climates in which the gaming takes place in the Aboriginal communities. I'm just wondering if the My-Play System is there as well.

MR. WILSON: Yes, the My-Play System will be on all VLTs in the province - on reserves and off reserves. When it comes to the casino, those are looked at a little bit differently; they're considered slot machines. If anybody has entered either of the casinos here in Nova Scotia, the My-Play System is not on those slot machines but the casinos in Nova Scotia have worked extremely hard over the last number of years to ensure that responsible gaming plans and initiatives are in place.

 

You walk into either of the casinos and one of the first things you see is a responsible gaming kiosk with staff there, with materials there, with support there to address or talk to any players who have any issues or concerns around problem gambling. Also, I believe the staffs at both casinos are well trained in recognizing some of the indications of possible problems. We don't have the same concerns because they're a really controlled environment when you walk into the two casinos from staff, from video cameras that pretty much watch your every moment, other than in the places they shouldn't be. When it comes to VLTs, they're not in such a controlled environment. VLTs across the province, on or off reserves will have the My-Play System, or do have the My-Play System. The same rules will apply to them come April next year.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I'm asking quite a few questions around this area because it is new and I would have to say, from the people that I've had some correspondence with on the My-Play System, they hope that it will be a strong, responsible gaming tool that will give the kind of feedback to those who gamble, that perhaps they can make more responsible choices.

 

Considering that so far on just a voluntary basis, we haven't had great pick-up. Are the five-year strategy and the My-Play System connected so that there could be no revision now if we do get good, substantial information that it really is not having one of the desired goals of the strategy and that is to create a greater environment for responsible gambling?

 

MR. WILSON: No question, when I was asked to take on this responsibility and started to look at the Responsible Gaming Strategy that we were working on, one of the first things that I mentioned was the fact that I did not want this document to be a five-year gaming strategy closed document - there you go, we're not going to touch anything in gaming, we're not going to address anything in gaming. If you looked at the release, it was Responsible Gaming Strategy 2011, and I purposely did that to hopefully indicate to people that we're willing and ready to look at all new initiatives when it comes to gaming.

 

Most importantly, some of the research that is currently going on and some of the important research that has to take place, that's why we made the decision to really bring a centre of excellence in gaming when we're going to transition the former Gaming Awareness Foundation into the Nova Scotia Health Research Foundation. The Nova Scotia Health Research Foundation does an amazing amount of work in relation to health research in this province. Of course, that aspect of gaming falls under the Department of Health and Wellness. I know the Minister of Health and Wellness is looking forward to working with the Nova Scotia Health Research Foundation to ensure that we do the proper research around gaming, but also that we can react and address concerns out of potential information and initiatives that we'll see in the future.

 

I think through the document when you read the gaming strategy, we continue to mention that we're going to keep an eye on trends. We're going to keep an eye on future development. We made the announcement that we would not venture into internet gambling sites, like casino-style sites, but we realize that industry is changing almost on a daily basis and the ones that are mostly impacted by those changes are young people. That's why I think in the strategy that we put an emphasis on ensuring that we continue to study internet gambling or new initiatives when it comes to internet gambling, but also address concerns and needs of youth because we're seeing a huge uptake in the number of young people who are getting into gambling.

 

You notice commercials currently on TV about a young couple, roommates, who are asking the other roommate if they've got the rent and, you know, they kind of lie about where the money went. So we're going to continue initiatives like that. We're going to continue to monitor what is going on in gaming in the province and in other jurisdictions to ensure that our gaming strategy meets the needs and the will of Nova Scotians and make sure, most of all to take into account the health and well-being of Nova Scotians.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you very much for that thorough response, Mr. Minister. You did hit on where I was going with my next question - the Health and Research Foundation - because there still seems to be some wonderment around the morphing of a corporation and the Nova Scotia Gaming Foundation now with other departments. So I know, what I've been able to gather in terms of the My-Play System was that it does have a very strong component for kind of an almost built-in research element to it. So we may miss out on a lot of that if we don't have a significant pickup and the light version seems to be the dominant one that we will use.

 

I'm wondering how many people will be working on research and what currently would be a project or two that in fact they are either continuing from the Gaming Foundation or being initiated now that the strategy is underway? There were a couple of questions there.

 

MR. WILSON: No question, in the strategy one of the areas we addressed was governance. We indicated that that was something we were going to look at and I think we've taken some initiatives in it. Definitely the first part of it was to address the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation and that Crown agency that was set up a number of years ago. No question, we agree that when that was set up, it was needed but we feel today in the environment we have that we can streamline and be more efficient with the management in gaming in Nova Scotia and ensuring that our shares in Atlantic Lotto are taken care of and the concerns that we have as a province - as partners in Atlantic Lotto - are looked after.

 

When it comes to the creation of the Gaming Corporation as a Crown Corporation, there was an offset to that, the creation of a gaming awareness foundation or a research aspect to it. We feel that with those changes that we've made with the corporation, with them being transitioned under our department, the same and similar thing could take part in changing the gaming awareness into the Nova Scotia Health Research Foundation. In the strategy we've identified that gaming research is a key and is important and some of the areas, and I know you'll be interested in one of the areas, that we want to ensure that we have proper information around is a socio-economic impact study. I know you've asked a number of questions in the House about that issue and in the study we've indicated that a proper study take place and that is something that we're going to transition, once the transition happens, that the Minister of Health and Wellness will ensure that that takes place under the new identity.

 

The other area that I've mentioned in news releases and stuff in the past was around an early study that we just received, or a current study around the potential benefits of the My-Play System. There's a second component to that. So we're continuing to support that initiative so that we have all the information in front of us when we make decisions about gaming here in the province. The current funding levels for gaming/gambling research that derives from how much money is generated from gambling has not changed and we currently have the same formula that is used last year and this fiscal year. Depending on how much revenue is generated through gaming, those funds and that money will go towards gambling research in the province.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that overview. I'm wondering if there is any current piece of research that staff is dedicated to. Secondly, with that change, will some of the outreach programs, again, which have some research elements to them - I've attended a couple of those in the Valley - I'm wondering if those will stay in place as well.

 

MR. WILSON: I thank you for the question and hopefully the member understands my comment on it. The one thing that I do have control over is ensuring that the formula used to ensure that the money going toward gaming research will continue and I have that control. I think that question would best be brought up to the Minister of Health and Wellness who oversees the Gaming Awareness Foundation, oversees the Nova Scotia Health Research Foundation. Hopefully the member will have the opportunity to ask the Minister of Health and Wellness; I know she's up in estimates now, across the hall from us. I'm sure the minister will be glad to give more of a breakdown on some of the initiatives they have done in the last year and some of the initiatives they may take part in, in the future year, but no question, that's why we still address some of the research areas in the strategy that we would like to see happen in the coming months and years.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Before I leave this, I guess I saw the My-Play System as also being able to gather a lot of regional data and, again, if implemented into full measure, would provide at least that five-year longitudinal analysis. I'm just wondering, would this be part then of the socio-economic study or where will some of this information be gathered in the coming years?

 

MR. WILSON: No question, the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation is currently conducting the four-year longitudinal study and that's going to continue on even with the transition into our division so that important work will continue to happen by the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I noticed the member checking his watch. There is another 15 minutes, if you were wondering about that.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's not so much the time because - I don't think it's any mystery - the plan is that we'll be here for the afternoon so therefore, it doesn't look like the Progressive Conservative caucus is going to use any time; that is my understanding. I know one of my colleagues has some questions around some other areas and perhaps the NDP as well may like some questions to the minister so we'll have a lot of time in that regard.

 

There hasn't been a prevalent study done since 2007 and again I'm wondering if that's part of the current data being collected, or will there be a dedicated study around prevalence?

 

MR. WILSON: No question, I think - as I indicated and it's indicated in the gaming strategy - that research is going to continue to be at the forefront of what we do. I hate to do this to the member, but I think the Minister of Health and Wellness would have an increased amount of information than I would on what is happening, what has happened and some of the stuff that she would like to do and her department would like to go forward with. No question, we need to recognize that gambling does have an impact on individuals in Nova Scotia and we need to make sure that, as a government, we provide not only the services but minimize the impact that gambling has in the province, or on Nova Scotians in the province.

 

So I know the Minister of Health and Wellness feels the same around ensuring that the services that we have and are delivered through Addiction Services, through her department. Not only in Health and the district health authorities, but through Wellness - that they address those concerns and they address the need to ensure that we have the proper programs in place.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I'll have to check Hansard for part of that answer, Mr. Minister, but anyway I just wanted (Interruption) No, no, that's fine. One of the areas that I know that is the model - and I think that is very consistent with a lot of aspects of society - is to have a harm reduction model and that certainly I think is where the whole responsible gambling wants to move.

 

When I got the information around the My-Play System, I said, gosh, this is really great. I said if we had 100 per cent compliance here with full registration, where we can identify high rates of problem data - either because of the environment, the location, you know, the playing conditions and so forth - we could really perhaps make adjustments that would be beneficial. So I'm not sure if this is going to lead to safer playing environments and really bring about any progress on the harm reduction goal which the strategy does reference.

 

MR. WILSON: Mr. Chairman, I think to the benefit of the members and all members, I might just go through quickly a couple of the initiatives or some of the things that the My-Play System brings to the forefront when this comes online as a mandatory system.

 

The one thing is a pop-up reminder, and this advises players how long they've been playing and it will ask the player if they want to continue to play. Compared to what we've seen years ago around the stop buttons that were removed, this will have an impact on ensuring people know how long they've been sitting at the table, or sitting in front of a VLT. We know how fast time goes and how sometimes, you know, people are so engaged in what they're doing that I think the pop-up reminder will be of benefit. Currently it comes up after an hour of play and then after that it comes up every 30 minutes. So it's not something that comes and you can shut it off and it won't be there any more, it will continue to be there and it will continue to come up.

 

Also, one of the other benefits here in the My-Play System is that it displays the amount wagered in dollars. So it's like 10,000 credits - you actually know exactly the amount of money that you're wagering at that time and it's in actual dollars, not credits. So I think that's a positive move and it's a positive thing about the My-Play System.

 

The other thing is the mandatory cash-out. This feature requires a player to cash out their money after 150 minutes of play, so, of course, it gives you that little ticket so you have to cash it out. You have to leave that machine and go to the retailer to actually cash that out. So there I think it gives another opportunity for someone who's gambling to really think about what they doing, there's a break, because I know that I've read over the years that that's part of the issues around VLTs is not having a break, not having kind of even a few seconds to think about what you're doing. So that I think is the second initiative in the My-Play System that I think will benefit individuals that, hopefully, will allow someone to say, do you know what, I think I'm getting to a level that I should just walk away.

 

The other thing is the permanent clock displayed at the terminal so that you know the time of day. Often, I'm sure the member is aware that these machines are in a corner room in an establishment - usually no windows, sometimes a little darker - so at least a clock will identify the time of day and encourage people to be mindful of how long they've been playing. Those are just a couple of the initiatives and benefits, I think, of the My-Play System which is currently on all the machines. As of April 2012, it will be mandatory that the card system and the players will see.

 

MR. GLAVINE: For the record, is the My-Play System from Techlink, was it industry driven? Or, was it government and responsible gaming directed?

 

MR. WILSON: I think it was a little bit of both. I think government definitely was looking at what was out there that we could adopt or what we could implement in Nova Scotia. Fortunately for us, we have a Nova Scotia company that was actually working on that type of software. It was great to see that, allowing us to have access to that, from a Nova Scotia company.

 

I said earlier in one of my responses that they're being sought after from countries around the world about this system. I think being a first in North America elevates other jurisdictions to take the opportunity to look at this. Hopefully what it will do is make other jurisdictions in Canada, for example, our colleagues across the country to look at what we've done here in Nova Scotia and in Legislatures across the country in the next months or years we will see similar debates taking place and similar actions being taken by governments across the country.

 

I think it was a great opportunity to showcase Nova Scotia but what I think is more important is to showcase some of the innovation that we have from some of the companies in Nova Scotia. I think it will be a benefit for all of us. I look forward to supporting other Nova Scotia companies when it comes to initiatives like the My-Play System that was generated from a Nova Scotia company.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I thank the minister for that. I think my first hour is closing in but I know you're new to this department as minister and taking on just one part of the gaming Act. Have you had any consultation with your Atlantic peers and colleagues to date and how they're viewing VLTs, the number per capita and where they may be going in the responsible gambling area?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, definitely. I think that's important because as I said earlier, we have a stake in Atlantic Lottery with the other three Atlantic provinces - New Brunswick, P.E.I. and Newfoundland and Labrador. I had the opportunity recently, in February, to attend the Finance Ministers meeting in Moncton where many of the other Finance Ministers have that responsibility where we actually had time allotted to talk about gaming, our stake in Atlantic Lottery. I think it was the first time in a number of years, if not the first time, that actually during that type of meeting we actually scheduled time to talk about gaming.

 

I spoke with two of my colleagues who were responsible for gaming on the day we released our strategy, the minister from P.E.I. and the minister from New Brunswick. They both thought the initiatives we were bringing forward were important and were good ones. Of course every jurisdiction has different ideas and different approaches of gaming but I think for the most part we're quite similar on where we want to go when it comes to gambling in our respective provinces. One of the things we did say during our time when we discussing gaming issues, was that we would continue to do this and I look forward to future meetings with the ministers who are responsible for gaming in Atlantic Canada. I think it's important and it's something we need to continue to talk about especially with new initiatives in innovations when it comes to gambling, especially around some of the concerns of internet gambling that has been seen as an increase in use in all our provinces.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Maybe if the chairman could clarify where we're going to go here with - I think we're closing in on the hour.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: There's about four and half minutes left to the Liberal caucus if you wish to use them.

 

MR. GLAVINE: So where are we?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: At this point what would happen is that we would move to the NDP caucus if they have any questions - I understand they do - and if they wish to use up to an hour, that will available to them. We will then go back to make an offer to any representatives of the Progressive Conservative caucus who might be present but no, I don't see any. Then it would turn again to the Liberal caucus. That would be the plan.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I was wondering if to finish off with, if the minister could let me know whether it's just an annual number of the VLTs that are put out, or at any point in time can a Nova Scotian find out as of today, we have this number of active machines in the province. I'd like to have some understanding in the strategy you spoke to attrition and of the machines that there wouldn't be, at least, a dedicated replacement program and plan for the machines, if you could give some information on that please.

 

MR. WILSON: Currently we have 2,234 VLTs off-reserve in the province and we have 574 VLTs that are on reserves. With the release of the strategy, we did identify that we would not increase the number of VLTs in the province - we will continue the moratorium that was in place over the last number of years.

 

We also made mention of the policy that, in the past, allowed for VLTs to be moved to other sites if an establishment closed or wanted to give back those VLTs; they would be around to other jurisdictions, other sites. We decided to address that. Our policy will be that if an establishment closes or wishes to give up their machines, we'll take them off the market. We will no longer move them around to another site. We'll actually retire those machines and over time, slowly, we'll reduce the number of VLTs in province.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Glavine, are you finished your questions?

 

MR. GLAVINE: I'll finish on that point.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I should explain that since a moment ago, there was an off-the-record discussion amongst the caucus' and the NDP caucus has agreed to defer their questioning and passes for the moment in favour of continued questioning for up to another hour from the Liberal caucus should they wish it.

 

The honourable member for Colchester North.

 

HON. KAREN CASEY: Thank you very much and let me take this as my first opportunity to congratulate you on your portfolio, for moving into Cabinet and for taking on a department that certainly has some challenges, but also some very rewarding parts. It is a bit of a conglomerate of responsibilities and some of those, as you probably know by now, will be more challenging than others. Don't despair; there will be some good times too.

 

I want to just pick up a little bit on what my colleague has just raised and then for your staff I'm going to move into public libraries. With respect to the VLTs and the reduction and I think, from what I heard you say, the plan is that - kind of through attrition - you will bring those numbers down. My question would be, do you have a target that you would like to reach through attrition?

 

MR. WILSON: No, there is not a specific number that we're shooting for. I know with the past strategies, there was an aggressive attempt to reduce the numbers of VLTs, which we applauded and supported. We realized and we accept that we're at - I think, I believe - a more manageable number of VLTs. I just mentioned that we have 2,234 VLTs that are not on reserves - off reserves - that it's a more manageable number. There is no specific target, but I think we recognize that we want to continue to eliminate VLTs if the opportunity presents itself. That's why we took a more balanced, measured approach to addressing reducing the number of VLTs in the province.

 

We recognize - and we can't shy away from this - the revenue that is generated through VLTs. It's something that I think the former government recognized and addressed. It's something that we recognize and I think through our strategy address some of the concerns around the number of VLTs. There is no specific number we are targeting, but we want to make sure that we took steps to start to reduce the number so there will be a slow reduction in the number of VLTs through the policy change with the attrition policy that we're putting in place.

 

MS. CASEY: Do you have any statistics to suggest what that rate of attrition has been or might be?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, definitely looking back at last year, for example, there would have been a potential of removing about 24 machines. Of course, with the past policy, those machines were probably moved around to another location. Last year was about 24, so 24 or 25 on an annual basis may be the number of reductions that we might see.

 

MS. CASEY: Are you able to identify the sites from which those 24 may have come?

 

MR. WILSON: Definitely, we can. Unfortunately I don't have that with me, but I can provide the member with the locations so yes, we could identify where they came from.

MS. CASEY: I appreciate that and I understand you may not have it. The reason I'm asking that question is to determine if that is from small corner stores, from bars, from Legions. If I look at those three categories, would those 24 have been from any one of those three, more from one of those three than another?

 

MR. WILSON: Just to correct the member, no corner stores have VLTs and if they do, they're illegal VLTs and we're going to do everything we can to get them off the market.

One of the initiatives in the gaming strategy is to further ensure that those machines aren't in play in Nova Scotia. We know that they are out there. I don't think they're out there as much as some people say, but they are out there. We're going to change some of the policy we have, like other jurisdictions. (Interruption) I'll get to your question in a second. I just thought you might want to know. We're going to look at what other jurisdictions have done around attaching penalties to an organization or a retailer. If a retailer has a liquor licence, for example, and is found to have an illegal machine, we'll revoke that liquor licence, so there are some stiff penalties we can look at to ensuring that we don't have any come-back or increasing in the grey machines.

 

So yes, those reductions would have come either from a non-profit organization or a non-profit group like a Legion or a bar. We can identify that and we'll get that information to you.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you, I'm interested in that, and thanks for the little lesson on corner store VLTs. My question again - I appreciate that information, I'll be anxious to see that because I know one of the things we wrestled with was the revenue that Legions are able to get from the use of VLTs. Whether it's right or wrong, for many of them it was what allowed them to keep their lights on and their heat. I would be interested to know how many of those 24 might have come, if any, from Legions, and while you're getting the information, if you would be able to identify which Legions, I would appreciate that as well.

 

My reason for the questioning and for kind of digging a little deeper on this one is that we know that Legions have, as I said, some of them have very limited means of revenue and were telling us three years ago that once this was gone, if they were gone, they would not be able to survive. I'm just wondering if, in fact, they did lose some and they still survived or did they lose some and they had to close. What people say and what actually happens may not always be the same so I'm just interested to see if those were well-founded statements that were being made, if they've proven to materialize or not. I would appreciate getting that information.

 

If I can, I would like to just leave that and move over to regional libraries. My understanding, based on the new department of which you have responsibility, that - we need a change of staff, okay. I noted that this particular division of education came over to your department. I noticed that on the budget line that was there, two sources of funding. The Nova Scotia provincial library line, which estimate to estimate was $2.1 million but the forecast was $1.7 million. I'm just wondering if there could be some explanation for that.

 

MR. WILSON: That's correct, it was $1.7 million and the other figure was $2.1 million. What was saved through that, why there was a difference in what was forecast and estimated, was that there were some temporary vacancies in the libraries in that area. That contributed to a saving of $344,000. I believe that would make up the - so $344,000 should basically make it even to the - there we go. I didn't know if it was actually - I didn't do the math quick enough.

 

MS. CASEY: No, $344,000 is close enough to $400,000 for me. I guess my follow-up question to that, how many FTEs went to your department from Education?

 

MR. WILSON: We had 22 FTEs.

 

MS. CASEY: So you have 22, plus you have some unfilled. Are you able to tell me how many unfilled FTEs?

 

MR. WILSON: We're going to look for that information, but definitely that has moved into our department. We'll get that information and get it back to you hopefully within the time you're finished with your questions.

 

MR. CASEY: I appreciate you may not have those numbers at your fingertips. The responsibilities of those unfilled FTEs - what kind of service would those people be doing within the department?

 

MR. WILSON: We've got a detailed listing here so my staff is going to go through it and try to pull out exactly what you want. Part of the calculation of the $344,000 would be if, for example, someone lasts for a part of the year, or if a position wasn't filled or we were going through the competition process.

 

My staff continues to look at the detailed information that we have throughout the department, so I'll hopefully get back to you in a second. I was told that there is one managerial position that is actually posted right now that we're going through a competition now to fill that within the library system.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you, I would appreciate getting that information because $344,000 is quite a few positions. I'm just wondering how many and the responsibilities that those people would have and what the description would be of those jobs that are unfilled. Then the follow-up questions are: is it your plan to fill all of those positions to get a full complement, and then what would be that full complement? That's all part of that number, so if you could get that for me, I'd appreciate it.

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, definitely. In that number of 22, there are some vacant positions in there, so we're going to fill all the positions that we brought into the department from Libraries and that will continue on. Hopefully, I'll get you the detailed breakdown of the information you asked for, but all of those positions will be filled under my department.

 

MS. CASEY: I'll appreciate getting that and we'll leave that for now. My understanding is that there are nine regional library boards. The last statistic I had was that there were 77 sites. I wonder if you could perhaps confirm the number of library boards and the number of sites.

 

MR. WILSON: We have nine boards throughout the province and I'm getting a list of the sites here now. It was right in front of me the whole time. We have nine boards. The sites are Annapolis Valley, Cape Breton, Colchester-East Hants, Cumberland, Eastern County, Halifax, Pictou-Antigonish, South Shore, and Western Counties. Did I answer your question correctly?

 

MS. CASEY: You answered the first part. My understanding was that there were nine boards and there are. I don't expect you to read all of these, but it's also my understanding that there were 77 sites within those nine boards.

 

MR. WILSON: My staff is going to look at the list for all the 77 sites; I believe it's in our paperwork somewhere. So just quickly to go back to your question on the vacant positions for the savings, so there were four librarian positions vacant. (Interruption) Sorry about that, I read four. So there are different levels of librarians. So there was one vacant Librarian IV position, one vacant Librarian III position, and two vacant Librarian II positions in the province. We are and will be actively filling those positions.

 

MS. CASEY: One of the challenges that face our public libraries, of course, has to do with the escalation in costs for maintenance and fuel, electricity - those kinds of costs that we're all facing in our homes and in public libraries. One of the things that the library boards had worked on was a bit of a long-term plan where their funding would be predictable and sustainable. That translated into an MOU and all boards agreed that the terms and conditions of the MOU would allow them to continue to live with the funding that they were looking for. So my question to you is the status of the MOU?

 

MR. WILSON: First of all, to go back again to your previous question, we keep getting fed the numbers. I have a list of the 77 libraries that are around the province.

 

MS. CASEY: And you don't need to read them.

 

MR. WILSON: I know you don't want me to read them but is there a specific county, maybe in your area, that you want me to identify a couple of the libraries with? We can provide you with a list afterwards of every single library and some of the new ones that are going to open up because I know which you might be interested in.

 

A couple of the libraries that are going to open up in the not too distant future would be, of course, People's Place Library in Antigonish which we hope will be open and will open in May of this year; also a new library in central Halifax, HRM here, which is slated for I think the tail end of 2013, in December, or early 2014. The other one is the Canso Library under the Canso Library Resource Society which will open up in June of this year and also a new library in Bridgetown which has been, I don't have a date on opening, but it has been committed to and also the new library in Bridgewater which has been committed to which I don't have an opening date on yet because we're in the early stages of that.

 

The other question, I know it revolved around the budget to libraries. One of the things that we recognized was the importance of libraries and the funding that they receive. No question, over the years, libraries have indicated that they're underfunded and we realize that they have come forward time and time again from government to increase the amount of money they have provided to them but in the environment we have, in the initiatives that our government has taken on to ensure that we get back to balance and live within our means, I was able to ensure that the overall budget this year for libraries is the same as last year and that's $14.1 million which I think many of them were relieved because of definitely some of the exercises we've had to undertake as a government to get ourselves back to balance. So I'm encouraged that I was able to ensure that the interests of libraries across the province was heard around the decision table at Cabinet to continue the same funding to the libraries that was received last year. I know you had a couple of questions there so I'll allow you to maybe.

 

MS. CASEY: I will come back to the MOU but I do want to respond to the five sites that you mentioned. My question is, are those new or replacement? Does that change the total 77?

 

MR. WILSON: Those projects are actually replacing existing libraries which many of them were in dire need of. So no, that number should remain the same.

 

MS. CASEY: So the total number is 77 sites, the total number of boards is nine, five new replacements. I may come back to that but since we're also on the MOU, I want to go back to that one. The MOU that was prepared and was agreed upon, from what I hear you saying, you worked hard to maintain the level of funding that was there in the past year. I'm sure libraries would appreciate that and your efforts. I guess my question would be, have library boards agreed that you will just abandon the work that was done on the MOU? Is the MOU on hold? Will you be going back to review or revisit it? What is the status of the work that was done on the MOU?

 

MR. WILSON: I believe that MOU that the member talks about was looked at some time ago, a couple of years ago. One of the first initiatives that we have to take into account and work on currently is change in legislation to ensure that the transition from Education to our department is the proper legislation. So that's one of the first projects we have to work on initially is to make sure that the legislation reflects the changes that we've made and then, of course, we'll continue to work with the library boards, we'll continue to work with the libraries throughout the province to ensure that we meet their needs, and continue to meet their needs. So I don't know if that answered part of your question there.

 

MS. CASEY: I do want to follow up a little bit on this because I know when library boards did put together the terms and conditions of the MOU, I believe they had done a very good job of looking at how they might be able to reduce their costs and how they might be able to be more efficient in their delivery and so it seemed to be a bit of a barebones ask that they had in that MOU. We know that you've been able - as you say and your department - to hold the funding but the costs the MOU would have been in 2008, and the inflationary costs, you know - electricity and heat and so on and maintenance have certainly gone up since that time. So the costs that they estimated and used to determine the terms and conditions of the MOU have now changed and gone up. You've held the funding stable which I'm sure they appreciate but I believe that their ability to work within what's left might be significantly reduced because funding stays the same, costs go up, how are they coping with that because I do believe that the library boards did a great job of identifying needs, not wants.

 

If they were barebones needs in 2008 and their costs have gone up and their funding hasn't, have they talked to you about, are there things that they will no longer be able to do, or how can they get efficiencies that they didn't see there in 2008?

 

MR. WILSON: No question, a lot has changed since 2008, not only roles, my role definitely has changed since 2008. With the downturn of the economy, our province was hit dramatically with the amount of revenue that we see coming into the province and that has a direct effect on the services that we provide Nova Scotians. That's why as a new government, we decided - and I think it was the right decision to take - to make sure that we addressed the deficiencies in the revenue that we see coming into the province and we took the stance to say that we needed to get back to balance so that future demands on sectors that provide service for Nova Scotians like libraries, education and health care - all of them - that we can address the rising costs.

 

No question, we acknowledge and recognize the increase in costs of providing services, increase in insurance, increase in heating, increase in pretty much everything that we've seen in the province. But we also recognize that if we don't get a handle on the revenues of the province, dramatic steps would have to be taken in the future. So I must say since I've taken on this responsibility a number of months ago, at the staff level, our provincial librarian Jennifer Evans has worked extremely hard with me but with the boards and with people within the library system in Nova Scotia to ensure that everybody has a responsibility and takes part in getting us back to balance.

 

I have to say that the people who deliver this service to Nova Scotians within the library system are very capable. They're very professional and I've seen this first-hand with a recent trip down to a rural library in Mulgrave. I was amazed on the work that they do in that region of the province with the funds that they're provided. They come up with innovative ways to ensure that the clients they serve and the residents they serve are able to maintain and continue to gain access to what libraries have to offer.

 

One of the things that I recognized was the sheer distance that some of the rural library boards service. The one in Mulgrave, for example, goes up almost into the Highlands, down towards the Eastern Shore. In last year's budget 2010-11 the provincial operating grants were actually increased by $900,000 and I think that really helped weather some of those increases that they've seen over the last couple of years when it came to increased costs in, of course, heating and those things.

 

We know that rural libraries have another thing that works against them and that's a declining population. So definitely I understand that and I realize that. So in the coming months I'm going to continue to work with our provincial librarian and also the boards and the individual libraries to try to ensure that we have some stable funding to them, that they continue to provide the services, much like the library in Mulgrave provides many of their residents in and around their area.

 

MS. CASEY: I wanted to go into user numbers because I was pleasantly surprised when I was working closely with the library boards to learn that the user numbers were going up. I think part of that has to do, we do have a declining population but the user numbers in the libraries seem to be going up. I'm just wondering if there are any statistics to support that within, say, the last three years.

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, no question, I would agree with the member that I think I read a study recently that, you know, when you do see a downturn in the economy around the world, or whenever you see a drop in the economy and activity in the economy, libraries see an increase of usership to them. I know the library in my area has seen an increase in the number of people who are using their facilities and I'm amazed to see how they continue to look at expanding services.

 

I'll give one example of the library in my area, and expanding services that you wouldn't think a library would get into. In my area they know where the library is located, it's located close to maybe a little lower income area of the community where a lot of the children come in and the library is there and the staff there recognizes that some of them come in and they're hungry. So they provide them with snacks as they utilize the library. That's one example where I'm amazed on how much they contribute to the community. I actually have some direct numbers there; I was trying to fill in a little bit of time while I got the numbers there. I think the member knows how this works. (Interruption)

 

Yes, thank you, sorry about that. So definitely the Nova Scotia public libraries do an annual report and, of course, these numbers would be last year. So I'm not sure if the member has seen a copy of the annual report but it does break down definitely different numbers in their annual report, everything from estimated in-person visits and it gives you actually the actual library number. I believe last year estimated visits were 3,575,000 visitors but also it gives you some information around total hours of use on the computers, for example, on the Internet, and we're finding more and more individuals are using the Internet and the computer component that is offered at libraries.

 

Provincial libraries through their operating budgets had provided Internet connection and we will continue to cover that cost in this fiscal year and that total is $310,000 that we have continued to support libraries with, ensuring that they have daily operations of computers in their libraries - we were glad that we could continue to provide that. So what we can do is get a copy of the annual report to the member. That actually gives you a lot of information and I don't think you want me to read through all the total hours of computer use and that type of information but we do have that and we will provide it for the member.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you and to the minister, I'm sure he could read all of that and he could chew up a lot of time but I appreciate him not doing that.

 

I want to go perhaps back to the replacement facilities that you identified and there were five replacement facilities. I guess my question would be, do you have an actual or projected cost for each one of those five buildings?

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for that. The first one I'll talk about is the People's Place Library in Antigonish. In October 2009 Minister MacDonald made an announcement on behalf of the then-Minister of Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, and that was a $1.5 million capital funding for that library. That one is going to open in May of this year, next month. The second one is the central library here in HRM, again back in October of 2009, both Minister Baird and Minister MacKay from the federal government were on hand with our Premier and Minister Estabrooks and the mayor of Halifax to announce a joint funding for that infrastructure project in HRM. I'm trying to look and I'll get you that number, oh, an announcement was made of $13 million of provincial funding for that new library.

 

The third project I mentioned earlier is the Canso Library that was announced in August of last year - 2010 - and it was an investment of $66,000 which was actually made through our Department of Economic and Rural Development at the time, through the Community Development Fund. So that was $66,000 for that project. The new Bridgewater Library is included in the plans for the Lunenburg County Lifestyle Centre, which receives $10 million from the province, so that's for the whole complex.

 

The fifth project I mentioned earlier was the new Bridgetown and Area Library, now opened, and that includes a $10,000 accessibility grant from Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations. I believe it was more than that so I'll have to get the figure on that one. That's the only one I don't have the provincial figure but there was a $10,000 accessibility grant from Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations. I'll check to see if that was the total contribution that we made to that.

 

So those are the five projects. I think I got most of what you asked for.

MS. CASEY: Thank you. I guess when you're compiling and you don't need to do this now but when you're getting your information, if you're able to give me the total cost of the new facility and then the contribution from the province towards that total cost, would it be possible to get that for those five facilities?

 

MR. WILSON: If we can get that information because, of course, it's not all under our control but I would assume that we should be able to get that information to you, we'll provide it to you.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you, and in keeping with replacement facilities, and this is one in particular, it's a local one - the library in Tatamagouche, can you tell me what you have in your plans for a replacement for that facility?

 

MR. WILSON: Actually any requests for replacements would come through the board and to my knowledge, we haven't been given or been asked or been given a request to replace that, as of yet.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. I know that discussions have been ongoing with the municipality so I'm just anxious to know if and when an ask comes to your department, and I'll be monitoring it from that end, but what you're telling me is that at this point there has been nothing from the Municipality of Colchester County or from the Village of Tatamagouche or from the library board regarding a replacement for that library. Am I clear on that?

 

MR. WILSON: It hasn't been submitted to my department, not to my knowledge. Of course as you mentioned, we have multiple players at the table and partners when we talk about libraries - of course the boards, the municipalities, the province, and of course in the past we've had the federal government at the table. So to my knowledge no, my department hasn't been given a request for a new library but I'm sure if it comes, we'll do our due diligence to look at it and see what the possibilities are.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. I will finish my time here with perhaps not a question but a comment. I'd like to thank you for the information that you have provided and that you will compile and get for me at another time. I am very confident that when the application from Tatamagouche comes in that you'll get more than due diligence but perhaps an actual commitment. Thank you very much.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Does Mr. Glavine, as a member of the Liberal caucus, wish to continue the questioning? (Interruption) Apparently so.

 

MR. LEO GLAVINE: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I was going to continue on with the Gaming Corporation and at this time, it rolling into Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

My first question, Mr. Minister, is when will the roll-in of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation be completed? What is the timeline, and if you could provide us with either information or a copy of the timeline? So when will the roll-in be completed, what is the timeline and if we could have a sense of that direction?

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for that question. Definitely, right from the start of the release of our strategy, my department has been working with the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation to ensure that number one, the status quo was going on and it was business as usual. Because we have such a stake at ensuring our interests are being looked after on the gaming front with, I mentioned before, around Atlantic Lottery.

 

We've created a transition team that is and will continue to work to move that Crown Corporation into a division of Communities, Culture and Heritage. There's a lot of work entailed when a decision like this is made, we recognize that. We have professional employees, not only in my department but at the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation who have been extremely easy to work with and accommodating to information requests that myself and our department have needed over the last number of months with this decision.

 

We're going to work to make sure that we make the right decisions and the right choices and the timeline has to be appropriate to ensure that we look at all the details about making that move. The timeline that I look at could take up to a year and I would say that by next year when we're talking about estimates, we'll have a division of gaming in the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

We have a large number of things that we have to look at and work on over the next couple of months and we continue to work with and sit down with the gaming corporation to ensure our timeline is manageable, that our timeline is sufficient to ensure that we address all the concerns around that transition. One of the things we do have to look at is legislative requirements, with a shift like this we do have to look at legislation. I would predict that won't be in this session but it would be in the next session.

 

MR. GLAVINE: This is a change that I support, that our caucus supports. I had a conversation with the Minister of Finance about this decision perhaps about a year ago. I certainly have a great deal of respect for the capability, the competence of Marie Mullally in heading the Gaming Corporation. One of the areas that I did speak about at the time when asked what our view on this was, if this is going to be a saving to the Nova Scotia taxpayer, then I'm more than prepared to support it. Is it going to take on the same kind of governance model and is there any preliminary comparisons on running the corporation as a separate entity versus inside a government department?

 

MR. WILSON: One of the things we do have to look at through the transition is other jurisdictions and what do they have in place across the country.

 

One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier response was contracts and agreements that are currently in place. We have to ensure that we look at those and make sure that we address their issues with that; that's why the timeline is about a year out. And definitely, I think the decision to look at the governance model that we had here in the province was something that was important to us as government to really align ourselves with what we've been doing in other departments with streamlining and with being proactive around ensuring efficiencies when it comes to delivering the services we deliver in Nova Scotia. I think this will be one that will happen.

 

We have to ensure that our interests are being looked after with Atlantic Lottery. When you do enter into agreements with other jurisdictions like the one we have with Atlantic Lotto they're important. By the sheer number of revenue that is generated in this sector, we have to make sure that our interest as a whole is taken care of. So that will continue on and the role for the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation will continue to be an important one that they will have to continue to do the important work in the division of gaming we will create under the new Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

MR. GLAVINE: A couple of the pieces of correspondence that I have around from people who took a look at the gaming strategy and a governance change - there was, whether or not there would be some loss of visibility. In other words, how is the province going to insure the visibility of some of the work of the Gaming Corporation which was commendable around responsible gambling? They did give voice to it, they initiated as we know programs in the school, solid information available when you went to the casino and so forth. I'm just wondering if that is still going to be maintained and a very visible component of work of the corporation.

 

MR. WILSON: Definitely, when you take part in a transition like this you have to be opened to assuring that the services are provided continue to be provided to Nova Scotians. I know I make mention more about the oversight of the Gaming Corporation with ALC but they do have other responsibilities in the province, of course with the casinos in Halifax and Sydney and some of the programs that you mentioned we do see that responsibility continue to happen in the province and we need to ensure that that continues to happen.

 

Through the transition, no question, we'll be looking at all aspects of what transpires in the roll of the Gaming Corporation but we need to ensure that we continue to provide some of the services like you mentioned to Nova Scotians. I had the opportunity to attend one of the areas that the Gaming Corporation has been supporting over last number of years is the non-profit groups in the province. I had the ability recently to attend a casino night for one of the non-profits organizations in my community which was an amazing event. It's their major fundraiser, it's a community centre in - well actually it's not in my riding its Hammonds Plains-Upper Sackville, but it's just a stone throw from the boundary line. It services both our ridings, the Sackville Heights Community Centre.

 

Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation really kind of helps organizations through the province. I think they initiated about 15 of those events - well, they will in the current year and last year, that they assist these non-profit organizations. They put on these casino-style nights where they raise a great amount of money to provide services to their local residents. I was quite impressed on not only the atmosphere there but their professionalism that the staff of the Gaming Corporation brought to what is a volunteer night for them. I ran into a gentleman who works for the Gaming Corporation who I knew on a personal level - I went to school with his brother - and he was there dealing cards that night. It wasn't a paid night; it was something they volunteered for. I think it just shows that the Gaming Corporation, over the last number of years recognizes the need to give back to community and that's just one of the initiatives that I would hope and will towards continuing that program on.

 

I think it's an important one because it allows for those non-profit organizations to raise much needed revenue for the important work they do. The community centre, I believe, there were three or four different groups that got together to raise money from the Boys and Girls Club - there were other groups in there, I can't remember, every year they kind of change who is involved in it, but the money goes to amazing organizations in the province. I will definitely like to see that continue on in the province. I think it's an important one and I don't see why that would change just because the gaming corporation has transferred to a Crown Corporation to a division within the government.

 

MR. GLAVINE: You did refer to the fact that there are considerable profits from gambling in the province. Will they be reported and managed in the same way or is there some other direction you may be moving in?

 

MR. WILSON: No question, there will be some changes on how they report because it was a Crown Corporation, but they will continue to provide the same information about revenues generated and where expenses were when it comes to gaming in the province. We will continue to provide and be transparent with those figures and with the funds that are generated in the province when it comes from gaming.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Historically, there is a tremendous link with the development of gambling in the province and the importance of putting it into sport, recreation, fitness. What is the amount this year that did go to sport, it's probably there available to me but I just wanted at this time to note that because I did have a follow up question?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, definitely. The year that just finished, 2010-11, was $3.9 million that went to Support for Sport, I believe that's the program the member referred to. That's tickets sold throughout the province that go toward sport in Nova Scotia.

 

MR. GLAVINE: It's also my understanding that there was a specific initiative around hosting the Canada Games. I'm wondering if that or something comparable will continue. As I alluded to earlier, this was to be one of the profit areas that would be distributed back into our communities across the province. In the early stages of this new rolling in of the Gaming Corporation, the same kind of thrust will be seen across the province?

 

MR. WILSON: No question, the Support for Sport program will continue. I think it's extremely important to continue to support amateur sport in Nova Scotia. Over the years, past governments have restricted or decreased the amount of money that goes to amateur sport, which is unfortunate. I know the importance of it and how much it can contribute to young Nova Scotians.

 

A prime example is the Canada Games that we just hosted here in Halifax. I think all Nova Scotians could be and should be very proud of what great hosts we were here in Nova Scotia. I've heard nothing but positive things from individuals, from other colleagues from around the country and also firsthand seeing the legacy that has been left from hosting Canada Games. I just spent last weekend, three full days in the Canada Games Centre with my son with provincial basketball and I was amazed on how that facility can contribute to our province and have young people like my son take part in being able to go to a facility like that. It's not just for people in HRM - my son, his team was very successful in the tournament and ended up winning the provincial championships but beat a team from just outside Sydney, Riverview. I was talking to some of the parents from that team and they were just in awe of the facility. It just shows that when you host something like Canada Games, the infrastructure that's left will benefit many, many individuals and will be there for many generations, I believe.

 

We see in Cape Breton, for example, the Centre 200 that is there and now is used by many individuals, even the expansion of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League was able to accommodate a team there because of that infrastructure, and I think that was placed from the Canada Games. Through the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, we were able to put in $1.4 million in that 2011 Canada Games Legacy Fund, which will be there for future use. I think that's extremely important that we did that.

 

Many of the people who I believe from the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, but from government volunteered for these games. I think it was something that we should be proud of. Now Sport Nova Scotia has a role in some of the funding that went there. I wouldn't have those numbers in front of me but I think all in all, all Nova Scotians would agree that it is something that we should have invested funds in. I know that it will have great dividends and payoff greatly in the future.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you very much, Mr. Minister, for sharing that personal observation. I do concur because when I take a look at the facility that was added to Martock which allowed us for the first time since 1995 to have a biathlon team and now a training facility moving into future years is going to allow us to develop that winter sport and hopefully we'll make our mark on the national scene. I think possibly even as early as next year, we may have a bid going in for the national cadet competition and biathlon, so there's wonderful possibilities that do emerge from it.

 

I'm going to go back a little bit around the governance again. I know it's a transitional area so I wasn't as structured in my questions here as I wanted to be. Anyway, what will happen to staff? Will there be staff reductions or will we have a seamless rolling into this new department?

 

MR. WILSON: Before I answer that question, no question that I would agree with the infrastructure on Martock. I ski at Martock and it's amazing to see the improvements to the infrastructure there, even though this year it was very beneficial to have some of the early snow that we had but the conditions at Martock are amazing. I think with the cross-country skiing, the potential there is great and I know it's an interest of yours down towards your riding but definitely that's another area that we benefitted from hosting the Canada Games.

 

No question, with the transition we are mindful of employees at the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation. They are definitely through the transition, that some of the things we'll be working out but no question, I could tell you today that not everybody there is going to be fired and let go and we're not going to - we still have a role to pay, the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, their employees have a role to play in ensuring that we continue to monitor the role that they have in gaming in Nova Scotia. Those are some of the discussions we are going to have in the coming weeks about that transition and how we best facilitate the move of those employees into the government division. No question, we make sure that government recognizes that these are individuals; it's not just numbers on a page.

 

Often we talk in the Legislature about FTEs and it is just a number, but I recognize that with those numbers it is individuals, and often multiple individuals work in the same family. I'm not sure if that's the thing with the 22, I believe, full-time employees at the Gaming Corporation but I recognize that and I'll take that into account when we do the transition and when we figure out exactly how that transition will work into the division.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, minister. At this point the second hour of questioning for the Liberals has expired. We're actually at the two hour mark for our committee this afternoon. It's customary to take a short break at this point, we will adjourn for a period not to exceed five minutes and resume after that. Thank you very much.

 

[4:01 p.m. The committee recessed.]

 

[4:12 p.m. The committee reconvened.]

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: We have a quorum, we're ready to resume. Although we finished up with the end of the time for the Liberal caucus and we might, in the normal course of events, move to the NDP caucus. They have again agreed to defer to the Liberal caucus and we will continue with questioning from Mr. Glavine.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before the break we were taking a look at whether or not any savings will be realized in this process and I did get some information there. I'm just wondering at this stage, will the current corporation occupy the same physical location and the same quarters or is there a plan to move them actually within another department?

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No question, next year during estimates I think we would be in a better position to give any direct figures on efficiencies and savings that we will incur because of these changes.

 

Over the next couple of weeks and months, as I said earlier, with the transition team we're going to look at all of the agreements, the contracts we currently have. I can tell the member that we're not going to do anything that would increase costs to run the operation, we're not going to break any rules or regulations and put ourselves potentially at risk for maybe any legal action down the road, so we're going to look at all the contracts, agreements that we have.

 

No question, streamlining and being efficient, I do foresee having my department, the government's department in close proximity to each other and it would be our hope that yes, we could have similar areas but by no means are we going to do it just to do it. We're going to make sure that we can do it, that the contracts and agreements we have currently are lived up to and that hopefully, down the road, it would be my wish to have them under my department, where my office is.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you. I know that any time there's a change of a department and some structural change, there's a transition. In terms of - I know the document has been presented but with the very change, for example, on VLTs and others within the strategy, will there be a communications plan as well to Nova Scotians so that over the next year they will understand now where it has changed, why it has changed and is that part of your mandate here as well?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, no question, we want to be open and transparent with this process. We're committed to that and at any time, if I'm able to, I'll provide information not only to Opposition Parties but to the general public to indicate some achievements towards our goal of having this transition completed by next year and we'll continue to use that as a standard.

 

I don't see any reason why we would not inform Nova Scotians about the changes and definitely we want to ensure that Nova Scotians understand the role of the gaming commission, our gaming corporation, and also the role of the gaming division - sorry, I meant to say division - when it is created under our department. So no question, it will be an open, transparent process and we'll definitely inform Nova Scotians on the changes that take place and ensure that they have all the pertinent information they need to understand the role of the division but the role of government in gaming here in Nova Scotia.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you. I did allude to a couple of the responsible gambling programs earlier during questioning. I'm wondering where the authority will rest for that? I know that in the past there was, of course, Health Promotion and Protection that took on some of the responsible gambling work and we also had some direct from the corporation. We also had some from the Gaming Foundation, so I'm wondering - we had that kind of a three-prong approach in some ways, there was some division there. Where will the authority and the actual nuts and bolts of a program come from as you move the strategy over the next five years?

 

MR. WILSON: No question, with the changes we do have a number of different departments that oversee different aspects of gaming. Of course the overall management of gaming in Nova Scotia falls under the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. We also have the licensing and regulated regulations that is overseen by the alcohol and gaming division of - Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations oversees the alcohol and gaming division that actually does the licensing and regulations, so that will continue on.

 

Of course we have the Department of Health and Wellness that will oversee the services such as addiction services but also oversee the mandate for research when it comes to gaming, through the Nova Scotia Health Research Foundation. Also, one of the things identified to us through the consultation and then I think we addressed was that we do have different departments working in and around and with the gaming initiatives in the province. Something we notices that wasn't there before was a committee that would work within government to ensure that we are addressing the needs of Nova Scotia.

 

In the strategy we've mentioned a deputy minister's committee, within government and the departments and, of course, my deputy of Community, Culture and Heritage, also the Deputy Minister of Justice, the Public Service Commission, Aboriginal Affairs, Finance, and Health and Wellness will make up that deputy minister's committee. That committee, I see, will be busy, and I know they'd love to be more busy, but I think this is an important initiative that we need to continue to work within government to break down kind of the silos that have been erected over the last decade in government. Often the biggest criticism we get not only from Opposition but from the general public is that well one department does this another department does this, they don't really know what they're doing. I think this is a prime example of our government addressing some of the issues around having several departments working on a single goal. This deputy minister's committee will look at initiatives that we see, that might come forward in the coming months and years.

 

I know we talked earlier on, if something comes up, are you just going to ignore it? We're not. We're going to ensure that this committee continues to meet and really provide the services. I think that with the broad range of departments we have, they all have an interest in ensuring that the health and well-being of Nova Scotians is their number-one priority, but also that the interests of the government and of Nova Scotians are met with the initiatives that we bring forward.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Thank you. Just to take a look at a couple of the responsible gambling programs, one of the areas you mentioned earlier was the reality that Internet gambling is becoming a bigger part of life in Nova Scotia, especially with our youth. Are you going to continue the existing program that we have, or are you going to make a more concerted effort to reach our youth population?

 

We know that to go into a bar or a casino you have to be 19 years of age, but we know that with Internet gambling, we don't have that kind of control whatsoever. Again, I'm wondering, are we going to be working with high schools, working directly on-line, to have some aspects of the strategy reach down into that more vulnerable population?

 

Teachers now talk about and have told me about students using their cellphone to actually gamble on-line, so we know that's a really challenging area. I'm wondering if at this stage the minister has come up with something definite or is continuing what is currently being done.

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for that question. It definitely gives me the opportunity to talk a little bit about some of the programs that we have in place and that have been created in our province. I think, as I have mentioned before, when we talk about gaming we can always - one of the terminologies we can use is "world first," and there are many examples.

 

The My-Play System - we spent some time talking about that - was a world first responsible gaming tool, but we also have some other initiatives that we have seen come out of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation with their youth prevention programs. I see that those programs will continue on and we will continue to invest and look at changes in future programs to ensure that we are addressing current issues and current trends, like you mentioned with the cellphones.

 

As you are aware, that uptake in cellphones is amazing. I have a daughter who's going to be 13 years old who just got her first cellphone. We tried as long as we could to stop her from getting that, but she's quite a responsible young lady. During our break she did send me a text, from her cellphone to mine, that she got straight A's today, so I think I don't mind her having the ability to send that type of information on to me. I know that has nothing to do with gambling or my department, but I am very proud of her accomplishments.

 

One of the things that we, as a province, could be proud of is some of the accomplishments, as I mentioned earlier, about being world first in some of the youth prevention programs. I mentioned one earlier: the BetStopper program. This was pilot tested back in 2006 and 2007 by the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation. It was developed here in Nova Scotia. As I said, it was a world first, and what that does is it specifically blocks gaming software or content on computers. That was released in 2009 and 2010, and it can be installed on computers by parents. We've had inquiries from other jurisdictions all over the world, actually, about this BetStopper program. I think this was a great initiative that the Gaming Corporation took on and was able to develop, and we'll continue to push that one.

The other one is a program called R U Up? This is being supported by the Gaming Corporation to support high school drama. It was created by the Responsible Gaming Council in 2006 and 2007. This interactive drama conveys messages about risk management and risks associated with gambling, as well as information about problem gambling. The latest drama series was performed in 15 schools and had 2,900 students in 2009-10 who saw it or took part in it. To date, since that program was introduced, over 14,095 students in Nova Scotia have seen one of the productions, so I think we need continue to look at that.

 

Not only have we over the years developed these initiatives and these world firsts but we continue to monitor and evaluate whether these are good programs. The R U Up? program had very positive results. One of the numbers that they were able to capture was that 93 per cent of the students who saw it agreed with R U Up? - which I think is great, to have captured a young person these days and make sure that they actually understand that what you're trying to deliver to them is important. We'll continue to work on programs like that.

 

The other one is the Youth Gambling Awareness Program, which was supported through the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation but also by the YMCA of Greater Halifax and Dartmouth. This is a program, again, since 2006 and 2007, which was delivered to youth in Halifax and in Sydney. The program delivered to youth between the ages of 8 and 24, not only in schools but in community organizations, as well as teachers and parent groups. This addresses attitudes and behaviour on youth gambling and helps participants gain skills such as informed decision making. It exposes them to hopefully give them the tools to make proper decisions. Of course, there is a wide range from 8 to 24, but really you're hoping you can get to them as young as possible for them to recognize the dangers of getting into gambling and hopefully stop that.

 

Another program was the McGill Youth Gambling Problems tool-kit series. In 2009-10, the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation became a partner in funding this through the McGill Youth Gambling Problems tool-kit series. Again, this was a world first. It was developed by McGill University, the International Centre for Youth Gambling Problems and High-Risk Behaviors, and they had a program up there that we were in support of. The tool kit, developed for medical and legal professions who may deal with youth who have gambling problems, contains papers, journals, articles, videos, and other subjects around youth gambling problems.

 

The Don't Bet On It program is a classroom-based prevention program that was developed by high school students through the Responsible Gaming Council. The Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation piloted and tested the program in 2006 and 2009, and during the pilot 480 students participated in it. After participating in the program, 98.8 per cent of the students were aware of the signs of problem gambling and 86 per cent of the students understood the odds of lottery numbers, which I think is most important. I think we need to ensure that youth understand that you can't beat the odds when you come into gambling. They have to be aware of the downfalls of it.

Those are just some of the initiatives in youth prevention programs that the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation has taken part in over the last number of years. Even though at times the general public doesn't know about these programs - and maybe it's our fault as a government that we haven't promoted these and educated people that we're more involved than just the gaming in the province. We're involved in ensuring that our youth especially recognize some of the risks when they take part in gambling.

 

It's my commitment over the next couple of months and years that I'll oversee the gaming file, that I'll continue to talk about these programs and other new initiatives that we're going to bring forward, so that Nova Scotians know that we're not only bringing in the revenue from gambling but also using that revenue for many good causes like some of the ones I just spoke about.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I do appreciate the minister outlining those programs that are available in schools and to our youth. In fact, the text from your daughter is actually pretty relevant. I hear now that during recess a student can use their cellphone to actually engage in five or 10 minutes of on-line gaming. That's how serious the immediacy and so forth is.

 

Is there any kind of plan or more effort inside the medium of the Internet to connect with young people in this province? We talk about the social media today - is there something there, that pointed and poignant messages could be sent to young people? That's the high, unbelievable percentage of young people who are engaged in that part of the Internet.

 

MR. WILSON: I appreciate that question. With regard to Internet gambling, in our strategy we've indicated a few things that the Government of Nova Scotia is going to take part in. One is definitely not to expand into gambling like the poker- or casino-style games. Also, we're going to ensure that gambling research and the agenda for gambling research really centres around looking at new trends in Internet gambling, phenomena that are happening, and of course it happens so fast.

 

Changes in the Internet come on so quickly. Look at when you purchase a BlackBerry and within six months there are two or three new BlackBerrys out there. We realize that, and I think the research needs to focus on the impact of Internet gambling on key population and key population's health, especially our youth.

 

That's why, through the shift that we're going to see in the migration of the Gaming Foundation to the Health Research Foundation, hopefully in another few months we'll be able to drop some of the names of these groups so we know exactly what we're talking about, but through the Nova Scotia Health Research Foundation they'll continue the amazing work they are able to do and really be a centre of excellence. We're going to continue to push that organization and I'll continue to work with my colleague, the Minister of Health and Wellness, to make sure that those new trends and new initiatives and new Internet stuff get looked at and that we have the most up-to-date research so that we can make decisions - and we can change decisions if that's what needs to be done. If we need to correct a course we're on, I'm more than open and willing to do that, especially around our strategy and especially around gaming in Nova Scotia.

 

MR. GLAVINE: One of the areas that the province became noted for was the responsible gambling conference, which has become an annual event. It has attracted people who have done very valuable research to come to Nova Scotia and to engage in a tremendous dialogue, a lot of presentation, and an opportunity to learn from some other jurisdictions. I'm wondering, will that be continued, as far as you know at this stage?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, Responsible Gambling Awareness Week is an important time for the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation and an important time for government. Of course, in 2001 and 2002, Nova Scotia, again, was the first jurisdiction in North America to launch Responsible Gambling Awareness Week. It was an initiative brought forward by the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, and I think it worked to foster responsible gaming across the province. It definitely played a role in the information that we had received through the consultation process of our gambling strategy. In the business plan that was presented for this year through the Gaming Corporation, it is budgeted to continue that, and we look forward to continuing to ensure that we're recognized here in the province for taking steps that, in the end, provide positive information and positive feedback and allow groups and organizations to stand up and have a voice.

 

I don't shy away - and I don't think our government shies away - from the criticism and the opposition on some of the decisions that government makes. I think it's important that we hear from all individuals on the issues that are important to them and to people they know, and gambling is one that there are various opinions on. I want to continue to make sure that people have the opportunity, no matter what end of the argument you're on when it comes to gambling, to be able to provide information and be one of those individuals or groups that are consulted when government makes a decision.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Mr. Chairman, I did have some questions around the Health Research Foundation, and I wanted to know very quickly whether or not I should perhaps take those in questioning the Minister of Health and Wellness and the deputy in her department on that. If you could just clarify that, I'll move on from that line of questioning.

 

MR. WILSON: I would welcome questions on it, but unless they're really around what was in our gaming strategy and the announcement, I think the most appropriate minister would be the Minister of Health and Wellness. I know you're doing double duty, and I believe the Minister of Health and Wellness is up in the other room across the hall, so hopefully you'll be able to get over today. I don't know if her estimates will continue on tomorrow. I would assume they would, knowing past history of the timeline for Health and Wellness estimates, so I think the minister would be more appropriate to answer direct questions of the Nova Scotia Health Research Foundation plus the transition from the Gaming Awareness Foundation. I know they just changed their name again, too, so forgive me if I got the wrong title. I think they have a new title now.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I do have a number of more general follow-ups and questions here for the last part. One of the groups that I've been contacted by is the Metro Bingo Association. I'm not sure at this stage if you've had any talks with them, but I guess in some ways - I wouldn't say they're beating a dead horse, but they feel that it has been an area that right from the gaming strategy, right from over the actions of the last couple of years, doesn't seem to provide much support to them. Yet we know that for some communities, some charities, the non-profits, this has traditionally had an important revenue source, and now it seems to be a lot moving to the reserves, to big centres.

 

I'm wondering if the minister has an appetite to hear their concerns and see in what manner bingo can possibly remain and remain profitable in our communities. I take the Kingston Lions Club or the Kingston Legion, and their bingos in the past were a great source of revenue. I just read a resolution in the House today outlining the unbelievable array of groups that they help in the community, yet they struggle with the business of bingo as part of a revenue generator for them.

 

Will the minister be open to taking a look at whether there is part of the strategy that could actually assist them? I'm not saying - perhaps more around helping bingos survive and be a source of revenue for the charitable organizations in our communities.

 

MR. WILSON: It's interesting how times have changed. I think bingo was the only real form of gambling in the province when I was growing up. I never really took part in bingo; I think I was dragged to bingo once or twice when I was younger and I don't think I ever really went back. Nothing against bingos, definitely; I think they play an important role. We have a large bingo facility in my riding that a lot of organizations use. It's run by a non-profit organization that allows organizations like the Lions Club and the Legion, for example. I think every night of the week is a different organization that provides volunteers to the bingo hall. There are some paid individuals who work at the hall, who run it, but there is a very minimum number of people that do that.

 

Charitable gaming revenues have an important impact on Nova Scotia communities. As you mentioned - I think it was the Lions Club - there are sports organizations where funds generated from them go directly to helping seniors. One of the ones I'm well aware of is the fire departments utilized funds for that; churches, for example, use bingos for generating funds. Unfortunately, these revenues continue to see a steep decline.

 

One of the things we did in the gaming strategy is to indicate that as a government we're going to work with charitable bingo operators to assist in regulatory issues. Which brings me to how charitable gambling in Nova Scotia does fall under Part II, but I'm more than happy to talk about it. The work that's going to be done will be done through my department to help them, but it's done through Part II of the Gaming Control Act through Service Nova Scotia.

 

One of the things we said was we would work with them to try to ensure that these non-profit groups that usually don't have any funds or any money - or maybe not the means to know about new technology, for example, that might be out there, new business models that they might be able to implement in their operations that will benefit them or generate more funds or make them more efficient so that more of that money goes directly to the programs that I mentioned earlier that are so important.

 

Also, we're going to try to work with them to ensure that a development of a Web-based resource for them is available so they don't have to come to Halifax or go to Sydney to get information or assistance, to ensure they can be provided with the information over the Web. We're going to work on that over the next number of weeks and months and years ahead to see if we can maybe slow down - I don't know if we could ever turn it around and increase the revenue and the number of people who use bingo, but I think we need to continue to support them.

 

I mentioned earlier some of the initiatives that the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation takes part in with the non-profit groups around hosting these casino style nights. We're going to continue to do that and ensure that these groups have the support of the government and of the groups and organizations that provide gaming in the province.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Do you have a figure on profits generated from the provincial gain that is offered through the local bingos, as to whether or not that is an assist? Not just the revenue, but feedback on whether that's a relevant support to local bingos, since probably the prize structure and so on could be stronger than what some of the local games are offering.

 

MR. WILSON: Just for clarification from the member, are you asking about the bingo game that's offered through Atlantic Lotto or actual bingo facilities themselves? Is that what you're looking for - the amount of revenue that is generated from bingo facilities across the province?

 

MR. GLAVINE: No, I was looking at the Atlantic Lotto game that's downloaded to the local halls and whether or not something like that is actually an assist to those charitable organizations in trying to hold onto at least current levels of revenues that can then be used to assist some great projects. I know of one in my community just in the last couple of weeks where they provided a service dog for an autistic child. Those kinds of supports are absolutely so valuable, but it does cost monies to put them in place. So I'm just wondering if that is in fact an assist to the local bingos.

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for that clarification. I think what the member's talking about is the SuperStar Bingo.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Yes. I'm not a bingo player.

 

MR. WILSON: Me neither, that's why I don't think I recognize the name. But yes, it's the SuperStar Bingo initiative that you're talking about. No question, some non-profit organizations are taking advantage of that, but the numbers are going down. Fewer and fewer organizations are using that program to raise money. We're going to have to continue to look at if we need to change that, if we need to improve that. It's unfortunate that that bingo is seeing the same decline as the regular, conventional bingo halls have seen over the last number of years.

 

MR. GLAVINE: As I said, I would be kind of around the map on this last series of questions here. In terms of casinos, we've had at least one lawsuit in the province where it was deemed that the casino hadn't gone through some proper interventions to control the level of gambling that went on and the loss of personal assets as a result.

 

I'm wondering if at this stage the minister has had a chance to take a look at programs in the casinos, to educate and to alert, to make sure those people going to the casinos are able to be cautioned as to how their gambling practices are going; also the self-exclusion component, whether or not that has been adhered to and followed in the province with the information that you currently have available.

 

MR. WILSON: Soon after taking on responsibility for gaming for the department I was able to head to both casinos, actually. I was in Sydney. I had a tour of the facility. I was shown some of the programs they have in place for monitoring and for ensuring that it's a safe place for individuals, security-wise, but also the programs that they provide - difficult at times with the sheer number of individuals who are under some of the programs, to ensure that they're keeping them out of the facility, but no question, I continue on a monthly basis to be updated on any incidents that happen at either facility, in Cape Breton or here in Halifax, and we'll continue to do that.

 

We meet on a regular basis. I meet on a regular basis with staff from the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation. They inform me of anything that needs to be addressed. So it's not like we go for a long period of time and then sit down and say what has gone on in the last six months. It's on a regular basis. I just had one meeting with Mr. MacDonald two days ago, I think it was, our monthly meeting. So I'm updated on any concerns or any issues that the casino has, and I must say, since the three, almost four months that I've been in this role, that they're very quick to act - and I think act appropriately - when there is an incident at either of the casinos in Nova Scotia.

 

I'm confident that they'll continue to either bring new information to us or to government, or to implement new procedures and practices to ensure that they're meeting their obligations to providing casinos in Nova Scotia or any agreements that we have with them, to ensure that they provide the services that we expect them to deliver. We'll continue to do that, and I think that having those regular meetings allows us the opportunity to change directions, like I said before, or address any major issues that come about in the casinos in Halifax or in Sydney.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Mr. Chairman, in terms of casinos, my last question in that area is in regard to revenues at the Sydney casino. They do have the challenge, of course, of the Aboriginal community, Membertou, and the casino there. I'm wondering how the trend lines are going with the Sydney casino. I'm wondering if in fact you know their revenues and whether or not the company is - Canadian?

 

MR. WILSON: Great Canadian.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Great Canadian, whether or not they've done any evaluation and assessment of the Sydney casino.

 

MR. WILSON: No question, Great Canadian Gaming definitely has an interest in ensuring that the revenue continues to come in from both facilities in Halifax and Sydney. The Sydney facility or casino has had a flat revenue over the last number of years, I believe at least three or four years now - relatively flat. So there haven't been any changes, increases or decreases. I think that indicates that they've kind of reached what the expectations are when it comes to revenue for that facility, and we realize that. I think they're a professional organization that understands that they have an agreement and they have a role here in Nova Scotia to provide those two facilities, and I think they're taking the most appropriate steps to make sure that we have the proper facility and casino and the one here in Halifax.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Mr. Chairman, when I first started this critic role for gambling, the hot button issue at the time, of course, was around retailers and the fact that retailers were winning at a much greater rate than any of the players, which was an anomaly, to say the least. I'm wondering, since you became minister, or as you took a look at the file, whether or not there have been some issues and complaints around retailers, or do we seem to have addressed that concern?

 

The second part is when I do chat with local retailers, they are saying that there hasn't been any change in the fee structure for their operations for quite some time, and I'm wondering if there is any look at a review of that in the near future.

 

MR. WILSON: In the report that I receive on a monthly basis, it's not only issues around the casinos but also retailers, and any retailers in Nova Scotia if they have any incident reports. I feel that the controls in place are adequate at this time. I know years ago there had been a lot of concerns and a lot of light shone on retailers and their winnings, and of course we all know about Ontario Lotto and some of the problems they had there.

 

I think Atlantic Lotto has addressed most, if not all, of the concerns people have had over the years around those controls. Retailers have to report pretty quickly on any of the winnings and any discrepancies. There is a list of questions people are asked, of when and where they bought the ticket, and the turnaround on that is very fast.

 

Everybody would be aware of some of the changes we've seen in the businesses and retailers now with the self ticket checker that is at all facilities now. It's a mandatory thing. Some of the retailers now have screens above their cashes that show if it's a winning ticket, and it's there for everybody to see.

 

I think the regulations and the controls put in place over the last couple of years have really addressed the concerns the individuals have had. I think it's mandatory now that all individuals have to sign their tickets before they're even checked. Even my local guy in my store, every now and then I purchase one of those Lotto Max tickets and he makes me sign my name before he checks it. I think the controls are there in place now that minimize the risks. We can't eliminate all of them, but I think we've taken the right steps over the last number of years to put in those controls.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I was wondering about the second part of my question there, as to the structure for the percentage that goes to the retailer, whether or not you have any plans to take a look at that. I know it's something that I do occasionally have brought to my attention. There's no petition coming forward or anything.

 

We all know the mom-and-pop stores do have their struggles, especially during certain cycles of the year, and for many, especially the booths in the mall, sometimes it's a single source of revenue and therefore they're able to examine what is taking place. I was wondering if the minister could make a comment on that.

 

MR. WILSON: Since I've taken over this portfolio I haven't been asked or approached to review the commission rate that we have. There is a different rate for a few of the different items that are available to customers in Nova Scotia, such as the Scratch 'n Win tickets, for example; they're set at a 5 per cent commission rate. The break-open tickets that you can purchase are between 12 and 12.7 per cent, so they are a higher percentage of commission. National games are 5.2 per cent; regional games are 4.9 per cent; Proline is at 4.5 per cent. So an overall average of the commission is actually 5.5 per cent, but as I said earlier, I haven't been asked by any groups of individuals or retailers to look at this, so at this time I don't foresee a need to look at this.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I was wondering, minister, in terms of outlets across the province, are those deemed on a per capita basis or just on the initiative of a retailer, somebody who wants to perhaps add that to an existing business? Are there limitations on a per capita basis for outlets and for determination within a mall or within a geographic area, or is it simply based on business opportunity?

 

MR. WILSON: I think most of those ticket agents or retailers have been around for many years. I think the few that are in my community have been there as long as I can remember. Currently the number in Nova Scotia is 1,170 retailers that provide this. We feel comfortable that that's an appropriate level in the province, so we're not out there searching for new sites or entertaining a request for new sites. No question, throughout business practices, when a business closes and they have one of those retail outlets, that is part of selling that business. We do have some checks and balances that ensure that the most appropriate person is involved in selling tickets to Nova Scotians, so we don't see the need right now to address an increase or decrease. I think that number is a good number for the province, and I don't think we'll see much change in that in the next few years.

 

MR. GLAVINE: Perhaps that's why I've been approached on an individual basis here - perhaps there isn't an organization that they work with the province through, or is there? That's a question I hadn't actually asked in talking to local retailers: whether or not, as they make a pitch or a plan to - perhaps in some of the breakdown areas that you've put forth here - they do this on a collective basis. Or do they just come forward more as an individual businessperson?

 

MR. WILSON: Mr. Chairman, there's no broad association that oversees - you know, the Lounge and Beverage Room Association, for example. So there's no broad association, but there are organizations or corporate identities like larger gas stations, for example, that have multiple units or multiple retailers all over the province. Gas stations is one.

 

There are non-profit groups. For example, I know of one in my area, the Chebucto Track and Field association, which is an athletic club. It runs a facility for fundraising out of a mall in Bedford, and I believe they have a facility out of Windsor. Another one in my community is run by our local Junior A hockey team. So there's a whole slew of different organizations and groups that run these retail operations, but there's no overarching association of ticket retailers, for example.

 

MR. GLAVINE: One of the groups you did mention that I have met with is the Lounge and Beverage Room Association. I haven't been able to garner whether it's a majority opinion or not, but I know there are some who believe that a restaurant shouldn't become a mini casino, that they should be able to make it on their offering of food and entertainment, and some do not see VLTs as part of that business structure. Again, I know we have to respect individuals and so forth and what they deem as part of their business practices.

 

I wonder if the minister has met with the Lounge and Beverage Room Association to date and whether or not that remains an issue from their perspective.

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, definitely I met with the association early on once I took on this portfolio. Tom Brady and Alex Brown - I believe they are from the Pictou County area, the New Glasgow area of the province. I know I've received additional calls from them where they've appreciated the opportunity to meet with me soon after I took on this responsibility, knowing that we were getting close to releasing our Responsible Gaming Strategy. I am going to continue to meet with that organization and others to ensure that we listen to organizations out there on some of the concerns they have around gambling and some of the initiatives.

 

That group definitely was involved in the consultation process, bent the ear of the former minister who was in charge of this - and mine, to make sure that I knew some of their views on initiatives that will affect them. Of course, the My-Play system was at the top of their agenda when we met a couple of months ago.

 

I think one of the things that I want to do as minister of this new department is to continue to work with all the groups. It's unfortunate that I started to meet with many organizations but we had to get back to the Legislature and have the budget brought forward. I wasn't able to get to as many as I wanted to before the House came back into session, but I've given commitments to a lot of organizations that soon after the House rises - maybe not the day after, but soon after - I'll get around the province and ensure that I meet not only with organizations that have interests in gaming in the province but with all the other organizations and sectors that I represent.

 

In my opening remarks I mentioned how proud I am to be the first minister of this department. I think we have an amazing group of individuals who work in my department. Those groups and associations like the Gaming Corporation, the public libraries, archives, museums, and the arts and culture sector who work in that field are quite amazing. So I'm looking forward - I think I'm going to be pretty busy with the sheer number of sectors that I see, and of course the summer months are also busy for most of those organizations.

 

I'll continue to be open and hopefully accessible, as much as I can, to these groups and organizations so they can ensure that government hears about some the positive things that they want to contribute to the province but also some of the negative things that might need our attention.

 

MR. GLAVINE: You're chronicling things very well there. In terms of Atlantic Lotto, Marie Mullally, who was head of the Gaming Corporation, was a member of the board. I'm wondering if that was an appointment determined by Atlantic Lotto; a position on the board became open; how many positions there are; and whether she will continue as a board member or whether somebody inside the newly-created department will now replace her and go on that board. I'm just wondering a little bit about the structure in terms of making sure Nova Scotia is represented there.

 

MR. WILSON: She's no longer on the board, and it's a board decision where they ask for board members. Of course, we have representation on that board. Mr. Steve MacDonald is on that board now, and I think does a great job ensuring that our interests on that board are taken into account when decisions are made and when discussions happen. I think that will continue to be the case.

 

No question, we have to work over the next coming months and weeks through the transition to ensure that the agreement that we have with the other provinces is continued. With the shift in the Crown Corporation into the division, we'll have to address some of the legal aspects of that - Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, we have an agreement that they oversee our shares and our interests in that. There will be some work to be done to ensure that we have the proper agreement and that all the legal things are taken care of to ensure that that will continue. There won't be any changes in that, and we'll continue to have those board members on the Atlantic Lottery board.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: We're now at the 60-minute mark for the Liberal caucus. In the normal course of events, questioning would now move to the NDP caucus, but as I understand it, they're prepared to waive their opportunity should the Liberal caucus wish to continue their questioning. Mr. Glavine.

 

MR. GLAVINE: I've had close to three hours. I only anticipated probably about an hour, because I had to share it with some of my colleagues. That being said, I do want to thank the minister and his staff. I know the minister and I have had a great working relationship in the past and I don't think anything will change in that regard. I look forward to continuing to ask you the tough questions in the House, but also to working with you on this important aspect of Nova Scotia life. Thank you.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: We move now to the NDP caucus.

 

The honourable member for Lunenburg.

 

MS. PAM BIRDSALL: It's very interesting to sit in on estimates and listen to the answers to questions that other members ask, because you certainly do learn a lot.

 

What I would like to focus on today would be asking about community museums. In my area last weekend someone who is on the board of one of my local museums asked me about funding, and I do notice that the budget estimates for this year show that we're maintaining the same levels for community museums as we were last year.

 

Before I ask a few more in-depth questions, I would like to ask and clarify for myself - I know there are a number of community museums, but then there are the bigger provincial museums. Could you talk about the difference in the two groups and the different types of funding?

 

MR. WILSON: I just switched staff here for a bit and I thank all members for their questions. I appreciate their comments.

 

We definitely have a large number of museums in the province, which is great for not only our residents but for any visitors who come to Nova Scotia. We actually have 27 provincial museums, and these are - sorry, just want to make sure I have the right group in front of me - we have 27 provincially-run museums. We have 16 of them that are locally managed under the provincial museum system. I'll just give you a couple of examples of what locally-managed museums are, and I'll hopefully try to pick one out that's close to your riding. I'm looking at New Ross Farm. It's pretty close to your riding, across the way. The Fisheries Museum of the Atlantic in Lunenburg is probably the closest one to your riding, because it's probably in your riding. That's one of the seven provincially-run museums.

 

Some of the museums are directly managed by provincial employees. That is one of them. There are eight in total. We have Haliburton House in Windsor, Prescott House in Port Williams, Shand House in Windsor, Sutherland Steam Mill Museum in Denmark, Uniacke Estate Museum Park in Mount Uniacke, Lawrence House Museum in Maitland, and Balmoral Grist Mill Museum, which I believe is close to Pictou County.

 

Some of the funding that is provided to community museums is through the Community Museum Assistance Program grants, or CMAP, as it's called. Some of those museums - there's a total of 67 of them across the province. The funds that are given to those organizations can range from as high as $46,000, for example, and that is Macdonald Museum in Annapolis Valley, which received $46,222. Then we have some museums that are quite small and do a terrific job in raising funds and have community support, and one of them is the Whitney Pier Historical Museum in Whitney Pier.

 

Prior to us coming into the House, the member would know, we were down in Cape Breton for our caucus retreat. I was able to go a couple of days before to try to get around the province and see some of the great organizations that we have running museums. I was able to take a tour of the Whitney Pier Historical Museum; amazing little facility and quite a history with that facility. It's actually housed in an old synagogue in Whitney Pier. With the outmigration in that community, there wasn't a need for the synagogue, but they were able to give that over to the museum society.

 

When you go through it you see a lot of artifacts from the different cultures that lived and worked and grew up in Whitney Pier. Of course, the Jewish community was well represented there, and the Polish and Ukrainian communities, and I know I'll miss a whole bunch of them because I think it's one of the most diverse communities that we have had in the province, especially when they all went there to work in the steel mills.

 

Of course, through some of the programs that we have in the province, we've looked at ensuring that we could maintain some of the funding for these important museums. We recognize what they contribute to communities across the province. Really, museums and libraries are the focal point of many communities, especially in rural communities - especially in communities that have seen such an outmigration of their population, like Whitney Pier and others around the province. I think it was important for us as a government to recognize the importance of these facilities, and I was able to maintain the funding that goes to museums here in the province.

 

Last year government provided $13.9 million to operate the 27 sites of the Nova Scotia museum system. These sites collect and conserve provincial collected artifacts and specimens throughout the province, and of course they utilize and generate some revenue through admissions and rentals of their facilities. The ones in Halifax are well used by the general public, not only for looking and going in and seeing the artifacts that we have but for rental use for conferences and meetings and social gatherings, which are important.

 

In Lunenburg, for example, the museum is an icon. Of course, Lunenburg being a UNESCO designated town, it's in every postcard you know from Nova Scotia - the color of the museum, the red museum, and of course being the home of the Bluenose II, it's an important focal point of the community that you represent. I think as a government we're going to need to continue to support those museums and ensure that people can gain access to seeing what our past was.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I think I heard the minister refer to the Balmoral Grist Mill Museum. If I did, it's not in Pictou County; it's in Colchester County on Route 326, quite close to a little community called The Falls.

 

Back to the questioning from Ms. Birdsall.

 

MS. BIRDSALL: Two very important little community museums in my area: one - actually two buildings up from my shop in Mahone Bay - is the Mahone Bay Settlers Museum. That museum houses some very interesting collections of ceramics and lists of names of people who arrived in Nova Scotia on ships. It has wonderful classes where students in the area come and see what the museum has to offer, and they'll take the students through the rooms and show them what was there in the past and how children played. They've got a wonderful doll collection and that sort of thing. It is run by a wonderful group of dedicated volunteers, and the board is a very hard-working board and always looking to create fundraising events to be able to supplement the funding of the museum. They certainly are very pleased that we're able to maintain the same funding as we had last year.

 

In the uppermost part of my constituency, in the New Germany area, is Parkdale-Maplewood. That little museum is a wonderful museum that really shows what it was like to live in the area right from the settlers' time and how things have flourished. There is a little library room and there is a country store that shows all the accoutrements of the time. As people in the community pass on, they leave a lot of their wonderful souvenirs that have gone back in their families and there really is no place for them to go, so they dedicate those to the museum for people to come and see. There's a little cobbler's shop that has a lot of the cobbler's tools that were used at the time, and also some of the shoes and the types of things that would be used.

 

These things tie in right across the province. These small community museums are really snapshots of our culture-rich province. Because they're small and unique, they're very specific. I remember with great fondness going to the Hector Exhibit Centre, which is in Pictou, when my children were younger, and we walked through and looked at a lot of the interactive displays. We came around a corner at one point and the room was set up as the room for a fishing home and there had been a rocking chair that was automated. In that chair there was a mannequin of a little woman waiting for her son or husband to arrive back from sea. As we turned the corner, the rocking chair started to move and scared the daylights out of my children. They always talk about that little museum - do you remember the lady who was rocking?

 

Those are things that really enrich our community and also those are the sorts of experiential things that tourists like to come here to see. One of the big things that seems to be coming up in our Mahone Bay Settlers Museum is the number of people who come from all over North America, really, but finding their own genealogical roots. They go on-line and search for these roots and then come and see the lists of people who arrived on various ships. There's the German settlement of the area and all of those people, and in the town right next to the museum is a list of the names of the early settlers in the area.

 

These museums are really an important part of small communities, certainly in my area. My question to you, minister, is, can you just tell me why it's important that these museums actually have a stable funding and can count on that?

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for clarifying where that museum was.

 

As I look through my list - I know I've stated in the past that I hope to get to as many of these organizations as I can, but there's a big list, so it may take me a little bit of time. Hopefully I'll have a good dent in this list by next year when we come back and do estimates all over again in 12 months.

 

I think the member's riding really is one of the areas of the province that has benefited from government's investment in museums, but in culture and heritage and really in communities. That's why I think as a government, when we looked at restructuring, when you looked at all the sectors that now are under our new department, every one of them - I can say that very clearly - deals with or touches a community. We're talking about libraries, for example - archives, museums. It's most fitting that when we did create this new department, if you were to look at the mandate and the mission statements for a lot of these organizations, even in the culture and heritage divisions with the groups and organizations that belong under them, you see in that mandate and those mission statements that the reference to communities is there.

 

I know I've been asked many times over the last number of months, what does "communities" mean? Truthfully, there's a different definition for everybody you ask. I think that's the true answer. When you go to a community and you ask them what their community is, it could be and will be different than a community down the road. I think it's important that as a government we continue to recognize those organizations that are in our community, that really are the centrepiece to the communities, and that we have a duty to ensure they have proper funding.

 

I would have loved to be able to sit here and answer questions and indicate that we have increased budgets for every line item that we had under the budget, but the reality is that we are in a fiscal time that we need to be very prudent on where that funding goes and really ensure that we're taking the right and proper steps to make sure that funding will be there in the future. That's why as a government we recognize that getting back to balance is such an important area.

 

No question, we have to continue to support organizations. We have to continue to support services in the province. I was extremely glad to see my colleagues around the decision table with our government recognize that museums, for example - I will get to your question - are so important and that their funding is maintained.

 

I'm glad to see that we were able to do that. I'd love to be able to say I will increase it, but I think in the future we'll continue to look at it, and if we can move in that direction, we will. Museums in your riding - for example, the Fisheries Museum of the Atlantic is one of those icons that - I was just there recently going through it. It had been a number of years since I'd been there and there are new exhibits there, and something that I see that is a benefit for your community that we need to continue to support.

 

The province again this year will maintain the funding toward that museum. We provide them with just over $780,000 a year to run that operation. I know the employees down there and the individuals who run and manage that facility use those funds to the best of their ability. They stretch those dollars, similar to some of the smaller organizations like Fultz House Museum in my riding. I believe they get around $3,900 from us, but I can tell you they stretch that amount of money to ensure that the residents in my riding have the opportunity to - I wasn't far off - $3,830. I might have to make a $70 donation so I stay true to my comments to them. But they do an amazing job in my community. It just shows that it doesn't matter how much they have, they'll use it to their best ability, and I know that's what happens down in Lunenburg with the Fisheries Museum.

 

You also mentioned the Mahone Bay Settlers Museum. They get support from the government of nearly $18,000 - $17,966, so maybe you'll have to make a $34 donation because I said $18,000. Also the other one, Parkdale-Maplewood Museum, they receive $12,685. There's a wide range of the amount of money in funds that museums get - some of them quite large, some of them a lot smaller - but as I initially said, it's amazing the work they do in preserving the history of not only that community but the province as a whole.

 

We'll continue to look at if new initiatives need to be looked at. Recently, just after taking over this portfolio, I had the pleasure of going down to Grand Pré and being part of a bid to have that area designated as a World UNESCO Site. We're committed to that proposal with our colleagues from the federal government. I hope it's successful and that it promotes and shows not only Nova Scotians but the world some of the amazing history that we have in the province - not all of it great, especially when you're dealing with the Acadian community, but I think as a government we've indicated our commitment to ensuring that Nova Scotians, and really the world, see what a diverse and rich culture we have here in Nova Scotia.

 

The francophone community have contributed greatly to our history. Wherever I go in my travels I enjoy telling people about our history and how long it's been since we had the first election here in Nova Scotia. Just on a recent trip to Philadelphia, talking with some of the U.S. colleagues who are representatives down there - they don't know a whole lot but were very intrigued by our history here in Nova Scotia, and they started to tell me about some of their history. I knew a lot about what happened down there, and when I told them why there are some links between Nova Scotia and, for example, the Acadian communities in Louisiana and the French aspect of heritage down in those southern parts of the United States, most of them didn't know about it and they were amazed by that.

 

I'm glad some of my colleagues who I've met with in Philadelphia are going to be here this summer to take part in a convention that will allow them to experience some of our rich history. One gentleman is going to stay on and does have an interest in learning a little more about our Acadian history.

 

I'd speak French now, but I don't think the member speaks French. I know the staff of the Office of Acadian Affairs would love for me to break out into some French right now.

 

Similarly, we have staff here from the Office of African Nova Scotian Affairs, and it was just yesterday that our Minister Paris was in the House telling Nova Scotians about some of the great initiatives that not only our government has done but the Office of African Nova Scotian Affairs has done over the last number of years to promote that distinct community here in Nova Scotia. That, too, has had a positive impact on our history.

 

Not too long ago, I remember, I was in the Legislature and it even caught the eye and the ear of Oprah Winfrey, which was great for our community and our province. I know the staff at the Office of African Nova Scotian Affairs are going to try to continue to capture that attention of the world, to showcase what we have to offer here in Nova Scotia around our African Nova Scotian communities and culture and what they have contributed to the history of our province here in Nova Scotia. So there are a lot of exciting things and initiatives that we're looking at in the coming months and years when it comes to not only our distinct communities.

 

I would be remiss not to mention our Scottish and Gaelic ties. Of course, we seem to emphasize those quite often, but we've got to remember that we have such a diverse province here, and of course the member would know the German aspect of your community and the German community. I mean, it's amazing in my short time as minister responsible to realize the different cultures that we have here in our province - and they celebrate it every other day. So it's my hope that through initiatives the government can provide these organizations we can promote the diverseness that we have here in Nova Scotia, not only for our own population and our own kids but for the world to see.

 

I think some of the initiatives we're going to see over the next number of months and years will contribute greatly to the impact of our economy. I'm looking forward to exposing my kids to some of the great facilities that we have and some of the great festivals and programs that we have in the province from all over, not only in the major populated areas but in the smallest communities. It's amazing, some of the stuff they do to really promote what the communities are all about and how much they contribute to Nova Scotia as a whole. That's why I think we need to continue to support museums, libraries, and organizations, because they are the cornerstone, as I said earlier, and the focal point of many communities.

 

We've known, especially in rural communities, that the outmigration has affected their community makeup but also the industries that have left some of the communities across the province. One thing that is still there, like museums, the libraries, and the cultural and heritage organizations that I think contribute to improving the economy - we've talked as a government about supporting the creative economy through Communities, Culture and Heritage and through all that I've just mentioned. I could probably go on for another hour repeating all the great organizations that we have, but I think as a government we truly recognize that a creative economy can play a role in changing the economy in Nova Scotia. It doesn't have to happen in just the populated areas.

 

There is an amazing number of artists, musicians, artisans, craftspeople, and everybody who works in and around the sectors that are under my department. It happens all over the province. So I know in your area, your riding in the province, it's great to see some of the initiatives there, especially around the museums and the Bluenose II project.

 

Maybe I'll stop and see if you have another question.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Cumberland North.

 

MR. BRIAN SKABAR: One of the things that is happening lately - and I'm not sure what the status of this is, so it might not even be a fair question - but the Thinkers' Lodge in Pugwash recently has had a considerable amount of money spent on it. Now, I don't know if that is going to be elevated to the status of a museum - what does it take to make an official museum out of it? It has been around for a long time, and the world recently celebrated 50 years of men in space, with Yuri Gagarin being the first man in space. When Cyrus Eaton went to Moscow to receive the Lenin Peace Prize, he met Yuri Gagarin. He offered him basically anything he wanted that money could buy, and he picked a trip to Pugwash. There's a link between Pugwash and the first man in space.

 

Likewise, the Nobel Peace Prize: there are two communities in Canada that have a Nobel Peace Prize. In Ottawa you can go to see the Nobel Peace Prize under a glass case with a velvet rope all around it; in Pugwash, you can go to see the Nobel Peace Prize and hold it in your hand and have a picture taken with it. These are just some of the amazing things that have happened right here in our own backyard. I'm anxious to be able to share that with the world, and again, recently Thinkers' Lodge has a new foundation and a new roof and renovations are happening. I would like to have a bit of an idea of what we can expect with that.

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for your question. You could ask any member of the Legislature, no matter what side of the House or where they sit on it, and they could bring forward initiatives that are in their riding and new organizations that are important for preserving our history and artifacts.

 

The member has mentioned Thinkers' Lodge to me a couple of times since I've become minister responsible, but through our Communities, Culture and Heritage Department, they're willing and ready to sit with any organization to see what they could do to help them and assist them and direct them in the direction they may need to go in. We have a wide range of grants and programs that not only a museum-type facility could gain access to. We have the Community Museum Assistance Program. There have to be certain criteria that organizations meet. Our staff at Communities, Culture and Heritage would be more than welcome to work with any group or organization to see if that is the right fit for them.

 

We're in a time where every dollar counts and we're trying to make sure that we get back to balance and that we address the shortfalls in revenue coming into the province. We have many programs that we offer through the Heritage Division or the Culture Division that might assist organizations. If it's just a matter of helping them with a one-time grant on something, we may be able to fit that in one of the programs we have. I would encourage any organization to get in contact with my department and we can direct them to the most appropriate person.

 

For that specific organization, I think working with our Heritage staff we could look at what the possibilities are in the future. I'm more than happy to work with the member and that group. We can work the details out after we leave these tables to see where we can go with that.

 

MR. SKABAR: Thanks very much. So there is a formal process? I don't know yet if that is the plan. The property is currently managed by the Pugwash Park Commission, of which there are three members. There is another volunteer organization, the Pugwash Peace Exchange, which has been doing some considerable fundraising for it. There is a plan for an interpretive centre of some sort, but I don't know if the Province of Nova Scotia, through your department, is involved, or if we as a province have been approached to that effect.

 

That was just meant as an honest question, because I don't know what the plans for that are. To your knowledge, there has been no movement or request for any of that to happen yet? Correct?

 

MR. WILSON: No, to date, from my knowledge, there hasn't been a direct ask to move them in, to recognize them as a museum. We've worked with them in the past through Economic and Rural Development and Tourism and other divisions on specific projects, for example, but I know the Economic and Rural Development and Tourism Department has worked with them over the years. As of yet, we haven't from my knowledge received any specific ask around that specific thing, about coming into CMAP.

 

We can get you the criteria, but most importantly, get you or the organization in touch with our Heritage Division so that they know exactly what is expected of organizations. There are certain things that need to be in place before they receive funding through CMAP, the Community Museum Assistance Program. We're definitely willing to work with you on that.

 

MR. SKABAR: Thank you very much. Can we switch back to libraries for a moment? Is the CAP site program a joint federally and provincially funded program?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, actually. The CAP falls under the Department of Economic and Rural Development and Tourism, but I did mention earlier that libraries provide Internet service throughout the province. Last year, our department provided $310,000 toward that cost, and we're going to continue that in this fiscal year. The actual CAP is a joint project between federal government and provincial, but it's under the Department of Economic and Rural Development and Tourism.

 

MR. SKABAR: Thank you, and I'd like to congratulate you and your staff on that whole process. There are, I believe, five libraries - kind of sub-libraries - in Cumberland County. As a matter of fact, there is a student going around teaching in these libraries, teaching older people who are technology resistant or basically concerned about their ability to work a computer and Internet. The libraries are a centre in each of those communities where people can go and become more comfortable with technology. You walk into any of the ones in Parrsboro or Wallace or Pugwash and that's where it's happening. So the CAP site program will be continuing? That was my question and that is the answer I was looking for. Thank you.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Kings North.

 

MR. JIM MORTON: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to move us back to museums. I guess we're jumping around a little bit. It's a pleasure to have an opportunity as a government member to ask a few questions. I don't always get that.

 

I just want to talk about museums a little bit, particularly thinking about those very small museums that may not be on anybody's radar very much. I know in some of your remarks earlier you mentioned in Kings North - the area that I represent - Charles Macdonald House, a small cement house that in some ways celebrates the amazing life of Charles Macdonald. We have some other more prominent locations like Prescott House in Starr's Point or Kings County Museum, which does an excellent job with a small budget of displaying the past of the area, especially Planter history. It has become an important source, a place where the collections of genealogical and community material are available.

 

In addition to those, we have a number of other small places that probably rarely receive provincial funding. Maybe they do occasionally, but they're not part of the regular, sustainable funding. I'm thinking of museums like the Blair House Museum, which is located on the grounds of the Kentville Agricultural Research Centre, which is one of the places where you can learn a little bit about the evolution of agriculture and agricultural research in Nova Scotia. I think of a wonderful little place in a tiny community called Northville, the Northville Farm Heritage museum, which celebrates farm life in the early part of the 20^th Century. It has created a number of buildings and an amazing number of artifacts, mostly put together by volunteers, and some of those artifacts are organized in working order. For example, there is a working sawmill on the site. They've made their location a place to show how planting and harvesting is done. They hold tractor pulls and horse pulls and have some plans at this point to develop a working blacksmith shop.

 

I'm thinking, too, that on the site of the Valley Regional Hospital there is a display of medical paraphernalia from the 19^th and 20^th Centuries, some of which is better left there, I think. Thank goodness we're not subjected to it these days. I think, too, in Canning, the Fieldwood Heritage museum, which has tended to secure buildings with an architecture that celebrates the past and the history of Canning in that area of settlement.

 

The reason I'm asking about these things is that I think many of them, while small, are important parts of the community. They depend heavily on volunteer initiative and passion. They're often managed by volunteers, organized by volunteers, and sometimes they have very interesting collections. I know that these places exist all over Nova Scotia, and as I said earlier, they get and seek little funding. These heritage locations are attractions both for local citizens and - they help keep our spirit alive, as you talked about earlier, minister. Sometimes our small communities are in trouble, but they are also tourist destinations.

 

I guess all that's a long preamble to asking about what resources, other than - and I guess I'll keep talking a little bit more. I'm sure all of these places would like some money. I don't want to suggest they wouldn't, but in the absence, during times of tight budgets and a difficult economy, I guess I'm wondering what kinds of non-monetary resources might be available to places like this, to the voluntary curators of these museums. What kinds of consultation might be available to help volunteer groups deal with their collections, think through their problems, and so on?

 

MR. WILSON: Thank you for that question. I would agree with what you have said so far. I believe that this province values our heritage, especially our museums. In every community there is something that identifies our past.

 

Not every museum in the province needs funding; maybe everyone wants funding, but I don't think everyone needs funding. What they may need sometimes is some advice or some consultation, and our staff are more than ready and willing to go and visit these organizations, to go and visit these sites and offer some of the expertise that we have within our department, especially our Heritage Division. They've worked with many of these groups over the years. Yes, we see in estimates that I could pull out a list of the funding that we provide, but what I don't have is a list of the phone calls, the e-mails, and the information that we've provided to organizations that didn't have an ask for money - that we were able to give them some advice on what would maybe be the best practice or even trying to contribute to their overall business plan.

 

As we move forward we're going to continue to have that open dialogue with organizations within Nova Scotia, especially museums, because as you said they do play an important role in tourism, especially - as I mentioned earlier - our rural communities that have seen a downturn in not only their economy and the businesses that have been there but also the outmigration. Sometimes all that's left for these communities to go after and try to promote and grow are these museum and heritage organizations. I think that's a great opportunity for us, if we can, to support them finically - even though we are limited in what we can do in that realm today - but also offering them the expertise that we have in our department.

 

I think we'll be able to do that even better now and going into the future because of the changes we've made as a government to the creation of this department. I think we made the right decision on bringing organizations together that have similar outcomes that they want to see. Earlier I talked about all the organizations that have come under the department, that have transferred in. We did transfer out the Tourism component of the department to Economic and Rural Development, which I think is the most appropriate place. The job that Economic and Rural Development does is about investing in certain things and attracting new people and businesses. I think it's a great fit for Tourism, but bringing in the libraries, for example, they're just like museums. They're in almost every community, or close to every community, and they play an important role in supporting those communities that have seen a downturn in their economy or in their population.

 

I think the other organizations that we have seen come in through the Offices, for example, of Gaelic Affairs, African Nova Scotian Affairs, and Acadian Affairs, all have similar outcomes that they want to see. They do amazing work in this province, and it's unfortunate that I didn't recognize how much work they've done over the years since I've been elected, but I can tell you since taking over this responsibility, it's amazing to see the work and some of the projects that they've done.

 

That's why I was glad to see Minister Paris stand up in the House yesterday - I think it was in late debate - to identify some of the initiatives in the African Nova Scotian community and sector. We need to continue to do that and promote that not only to our own residents but to the outside world, as you would say, or outside our province, so that we can turn around the numbers that we have seen in the past with a decline in visitation or tourism - make this a destination for individuals. The more Nova Scotians know about our history and know about the work and the initiatives that these groups and organizations provide, it's better for them to promote when they go outside our borders so that - like I've talked to my colleagues from the U.S. about our history and how it's definitely linked to their history.

 

I remember one quick story about a gentleman who talked about when the U.S. were going over to try to get the support of France to fight the British back in the day - I had mentioned about the conflicts that we had in Louisbourg, for example, around Fortress Louisbourg and what transpired there. So it was interesting to try to catch their attention, and I think the more we do that, the more success we'll have when it comes to new visitors to our province.

 

I think the Department of Economic and Rural Development and Tourism - even though Tourism has been moved out, we're going to continue to work closely with them. Really, our job is to make sure that when people land in our province, they can experience almost anything they want and really see what we have to offer. We can appeal to a wide range of organizations just in a short time, looking at some of the initiatives that we might see in the future.

 

Being in Cape Breton a couple of months ago at the chamber dinner in Sydney - I think the member was there also - I got the opportunity to meet the Minister of Cultural Heritage from the Basque region of Spain. She was in Cape Breton because of some of the ties in the past around the Basque fishermen who came over here and landed in Cape Breton and the First Nations' role in teaching them how to survive the winter so they could go back and fish and go back and bring that product back to their homeland. It just amazed me that I didn't know about this connection, and I hope our department, in working with First Nations and working with Economic and Rural Development and Tourism, can have more of those kinds of exchanges and possible collaboration on possible trade, for example, or even tourism destinations. I was even told that there's Mi'kmaq terminology in the Basque language now. How true that is, I don't know - I'm not an expert on language - but it was interesting that they had brought back some of the language and it ended up in their language in that region of Spain.

 

That just was one indication that we have a lot of opportunity in Nova Scotia, and if we can as a department make sure that we can support distinct communities in Nova Scotia, we can support libraries, museums, and the culture and heritage aspect with what we have to offer, then I think similar initiatives like this one with Spain could flourish into something that's a positive for our province.

 

I don't know if I answered your question, but I think we're getting late on time. How much time do we have, Mr. Chairman, about 10 minutes?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: We actually have a total of 12 minutes to complete the questioning and the wrap-up and the motion at the end.

 

MR. MORTON: I know Ms. Birdsall has a question, so I'll ask one. I'd like to switch back to gambling and the gaming strategy for just a moment - not to ask you to go into a long philosophical discussion about this, but my question is more about philosophy and language than about money or some pragmatics.

 

I'm wondering if, during the process of announcing the strategy, you've given any thought to using the word "gambling" in the strategy as opposed to "gaming." My own background: I have worked for a long time, I'm a social worker by training, and I spent 10 years before I was elected within the addiction services work area. I paid more attention during that time to issues or problems related to gambling than the business of gambling. During that period of the work that I was involved in, it was very important to us to refer to games or activities that are played for gain or money as "gambling." Of course, on the other side, from a business point of view, if you're a casino operator or perhaps a bar owner who has VLTs, there may be some advantage to thinking about using the language "gaming."

 

I know there's a tension between those two things. I guess I'm curious as to whether you've given some thought to that. I think I'm asking if you have any comments you might like to make about that.

 

MR. WILSON: I appreciate that question. I know the member's background and your interest in this. I appreciate being able to talk to you about some of the initiatives in - I'm worried to say "gambling" or "gaming."

 

I have to be up front with the member: to me, "gambling" and "gaming" have the same definition. There was no intention on my part to omit one or the other. I think terminology changes and shifts no matter what strategy you're looking at or what you're talking about. There was no real direct intention to do that on my part.

 

I know people are sensitive to that, and we're trying to make sure we use the most updated, correct terminology in the gambling strategy. I believe we do make reference to "gambling" in the strategy a little bit. No, there was no intention, but I think we took the right approach, and I know I've talked to you personally about the strategy. I think in the environment and in the time that we're in, we need to be sensitive to all those who are involved in and on this issue.

 

I know I've said this earlier to another question from the member for the Liberal caucus, that I realize the sensitivity around this in that there's a wide range of opinions and expressions and desires around gambling here in Nova Scotia. I respect that. I hope I'm open and that I project that to those organizations: that I'm willing to meet with them, willing to listen to them.

 

Just before our gaming strategy was released, I met with Game Over VLTs - an organization that is against VLTs - with Terry Fulmer. I can't remember the name of his colleague - Angela, maybe? - but I met with them because I'm more than willing to meet with them. I saw an e-mail come over my desk from Mr. Fulmer that indicated he had been trying for some time to meet with the minister responsible, and I know with the shift in responsibility that may have been kind of put on hold for a while. It was one of the first things I did. I recognized that I'm more than willing to listen to what he and his organization had to say.

 

I think by releasing the strategy that we did, we took a balanced approach to it. We know that not everybody is happy with it, but I hope that people take the time, if they can, to recognize that there are positives in it and appreciate those. I respect everybody's opinion on gaming and on our ability and our role in trying to minimize the effects of gaming, and I know your background, personally - that's the area that you have the most concern in.

 

So I hope that over the coming months and years we'll continue to make the right decisions when it comes to gaming - or gambling - in Nova Scotia. As I said to Mr. Glavine earlier, our strategy isn't a made-in-iron strategy. If new trends or new studies come out that need us to change direction or address a new concern, then we're going to do that as a government. I think that's probably the most appropriate thing to do as a government to address those concerns.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Lunenburg.

 

MS. PAM BIRDSALL: I'll be very brief. As a founding member of the Nova Scotia Designer Crafts Council back decades ago and as a career artist/craftsperson, I have to say that I'm absolutely delighted that our government has re-established an arts council, and I'm hearing that from my friends in the artistic community. Maybe this could actually lead into your final summation, but could you talk briefly about the five-point plan?

 

MR. WILSON: Yes, thank you for that question. I think out of the four or five or six hours that we've had, it might be the first question I've had on the five-point plan - something that our government was glad to come out with to try to indicate to the arts and culture sector in Nova Scotia that we're serious about it and our commitment over the years to ensure that there is an independent body overseeing funding to individuals who partake in those sectors. I look forward to implementing our five-point plan that we announced on February 14^th.

 

I had the privilege to make that announcement with our Premier, who was committed to these commitments. One aspect of the five-point plan is the introduction or the will for us to introduce status of the artist legislation. That is something that is in many jurisdictions across the country, but hopefully what it indicates to those artists in Nova Scotia is that we're serious about this sector and that we want to support them in every way we can, including legislation that we'll see in the House of Assembly. We won't be introducing that in this session, but what we're going to do is make sure that what we do introduce is the most appropriate for those individuals in our province who partake in arts and culture, and also all Nova Scotians.

 

So we're going to make sure that it's the right piece. We're going to consult with everybody who would have an interest in this. I'm not saying a definite time, but hopefully within a year we'll have that legislation. Part of that legislation will be looked at through the creation of the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council that will be established, and that is an evolution of the current Nova Scotia Arts and Culture Partnership Council. I think it's important to have a leadership council that can provide a voice for the arts and culture sectors in a dialogue between them and the government, and they'll be advising myself as minister and our government on developments in the future, especially around a cultural strategy for Nova Scotia. They're going to continue to provide advice to our government to continue to address issues and concerns in that sector. We also are going to establish Arts Nova Scotia, which is the independent body responsible for decisions regarding the funding to individual artists. So that's the term for that: Arts Nova Scotia.

 

I'm also going to develop a communications strategy for arts and culture, including an interactive Web site for the province that will not only allow someone to showcase and market their work but will allow discussion within the sector to government. We'll be monitoring what we receive through that Web site. Because of the changes in technology, I think that's an important thing.

 

One last thing - I know we're running out of time - is the interdepartmental committee to coordinate government's efforts to support arts and culture in the province.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I thank the minister for his comprehensive answers to all questions this afternoon. The time allotted to us today under the rules is just about to expire, and I wonder if the minister would like to make the motion for adoption of his estimates.

 

MR. WILSON: It gives me great honour to move Resolution E2.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E2 stand?

 

Resolution E2 stands.

 

Resolution E43 - Resolved, that the business plan of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation be approved.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E43 carry?

 

The resolution is carried.

 

We stand adjourned.

 

[The committee adjourned at 6:11 p.m.]