HALIFAX, MONDAY, APRIL 8, 2013

 

COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE ON SUPPLY

 

5:29 P.M.

 

CHAIRMAN

Ms. Becky Kent

 

MADAM CHAIRMAN: The Committee of the Whole House on Supply will come to order.

 

The honourable Government House Leader.

 

HON. FRANK CORBETT: Madam Chairman, would you please call the estimates for the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.

 

Resolution E5 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $1,105,659,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, pursuant to the Estimate.

 

MADAM CHAIRMAN: I will now invite the honourable Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development to offer some opening remarks, and if she could introduce her staff to the members of the committee as well.

 

The honourable Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development.

 

HON. RAMONA JENNEX: It is my pleasure to stand in the Chamber today to speak about the great work my department, school boards, and teachers are doing to help every student succeed. Before I began I would like to introduce Frank Dunn, our Associate Deputy Minister, and Dr. Alan Lowe, Senior Advisor of School Board Relations who will be assisting me in answering your questions today. It seems like just yesterday that we did this together, but time does goes fast.

 

Madam Chairman, I want to open my remarks by thanking the staff at the department. These dedicated people work day in and day out to ensure the students of this province get a high quality education. They are absolutely fantastic people who working on behalf of every single student in this province. It takes many people to ensure an outstanding education system. I would also very clearly want to thank our wonderful teachers who guide our students in their learning, and we have fabulous principals, specialists, administrative staff, curriculum experts, custodians, bus drivers, mechanics, and many others who work diligently together on behalf of our young people.

 

We have turned the corner with respect to our provincial finances. My colleague, the Minister of Finance, tabled a balanced budget with a very small surplus. Every sector, including Education, has had a part to play in restoring our province back to balance but at the same time we know that Nova Scotians want vital services to continue and to be of high quality. The balanced budget tabled last week included increase funding for our school boards. Per student funding will rise by 3 per cent to $10,762, and I want to say that is the highest it has ever been.

 

Boards will be able to hire 170 new teachers this year and we don't anticipate any permanent teachers, anywhere in the province, will lose their job. Special Education funding has risen by $3.7 million; boards will be able to hire 24 more psychologists, speech language pathologists, and program specialists to help our students with special needs. The funding for teaching assistants has also increased resulting in funding for 15 additional positions. We are investing more than $141 million in targeted funding for students with special needs. This is an addition to the program funding that is already provided to boards as part of the funding formula.

 

Over the past two years we have increased special education funding by approximately $16 million. This shows that we have returned the province to balance in a careful and measured way, using a step-wise plan that delivers the vital services our students need but our task isn't finished. There is work to be done to maintain balance and prepare the way forward. Contrast that with the tact taken by Nova Scotia Governments in the past and other jurisdictions across Canada in this past year. We have not legislated a contract on our teachers; in fact, we have reached a tentative contract on Friday, after collective bargaining with the NSTU. We have rebalanced funding in light of our enrollment decline.

 

Madam Chairman, this chamber has heard many times about the major challenges to the public school system; significant enrollment decline being a major one. On the first day of school this past September, there were 2,300 fewer students than the year before and it is estimated when the school bell rings and classes resume this September, there will be at least another 2,000 fewer students. That is the 42^nd consecutive year of enrollment decline in our province.

 

We have more than 30,000 fewer students in classrooms around our province than we had 10 years ago. That is a lot of students - the equivalent of more than 30 large high schools - that we do not have in our province. But over the last decade more and more money was being spent on education, even while the number of students was in steep decline and, more importantly, the test and achievement results of those that remained improved very little or not at all, especially in key areas.

 

This could not continue, Madam Chairman, and we had to meet those challenges head-on. We rebalanced school board funding with a $23 million reduction, over the past two years. This was to reflect that our classes now have far fewer students than just five years ago. It reflected that our class sizes were the lowest in a generation. It reflected the fact that while the number of students in the system declined, more teachers were being hired.

 

We also asked school boards to manage their inflationary costs, just like every other public sector body. We also sought the advice of education experts, including Dr. Ben Levin, who came up with a plan to move confidently and successfully on a new path. Last February, I introduced our Kids and Learning First plan to Nova Scotians. It is our blueprint for students' success, in an era of rapid demographic change and technological change.

 

Our plan is, in part, based on the recommendations of Dr. Levin, who provided us with excellent advice on managing through challenging times in his report, Steps to Effective and Sustainable Public Education in Nova Scotia. It also reflects the priorities of parents, teachers, students, school boards, communities and employers. The plan builds on what is working well and identifies key challenges that must be accepted and addressed. We could not ignore what was going on around us.

 

Kids and Learning First is about doing things differently while getting better results for every student. Our education plan, our vision, is for every student in every classroom to become well educated, confident, responsible adults with the skills they need to create and work in good jobs, ready to build a life in Nova Scotia.

 

It is an ambitious plan, Madam Chairman, and the first year of the plan has been a great success. We have implemented, or will implement by the end of this year, 39 new or expanded initiatives. We have turned the corner and set the stage for increased student success in this and other years.

 

To remind this Chamber, Kids and Learning First has four goals: put students first; support effective teaching in every classroom; prepare young people for good jobs and citizenship; and strengthen the links among schools, parents, and communities.

 

It was apparent that our students were faltering in two key subject areas: reading and math. Succeeding in Reading will expand into Grade 3 this Fall. We are reaching thousands more students, with this new early intervention framework, than ever before. Every student in these critical early years who needs additional help to be a good reader will get it, unlike the previous government's program.

This Fall, students in Primary to Grade 3 and Grade 10 will learn math using the successful curriculum used in leading Western provinces. I would like to add that this has been a year that our teachers in Primary to Grade 3 and our Grade 10 teachers have been receiving lots of in-servicing so that they'll be able to deliver that program in the Fall. We will continue to roll that out over three years. The new curriculum gives students more time to learn and, this is the key point, master key concepts. Each year they will build a strong foundation that will allow them to progress confidently and successfully to the next grade.

 

We have also maintained our commitment to keep class sizes low, by capping class size to 25 in our early grades. On average, class sizes in Primary to Grade 3 were about 22 students but some growth areas were seeing larger sizes, so we did provide funding to hire 70 new teachers and reduce those class sizes. That was the fair thing to do.

 

We are expanding SchoolsPlus this year to four more hub sites, to give us 16 sites that are providing services to students, families and seniors. All school boards have SchoolsPlus sites and more than 100 schools will be served by SchoolsPlus this year. Through Kids and Learning First, we committed to establishing 28 hub sites by the year 2017-18. We are well on our way to accomplishing that.

 

We are providing supports to children with autism spectrum disorder through our ASD Action Plan. Every school board has an autism lead, and a new resource is helping students. The Developing and Implementing Programming for Students with Autism Spectrum Disorder guide is a practical tool for teachers, school staff, and support teams to help them meet the needs of students on the autism spectrum. I've been getting really positive feedback from this resource.

 

Madam Chairman, as you know, Grade 9 is a critical year for our young people. They are transitioning from the younger grades to high school. Important decisions about a future career are being made at this time. This year, we will implement the Discovering Opportunities program. Based on the successful Options and Opportunities program, it will give Grade 9 students who are struggling real work skills and experiences in their communities. We are partnering with post-secondary institutions, community groups, and local businesses to deliver this program, and we are very excited about the potential of this program. If you could see the excitement and confidence of our students in O2 - I'm really looking forward to seeing that going into Grade 9 now.

 

We've also extended the parents as career coaches into Grade 9 and other junior high grades this year. These workshops give parents resources and information they can use to help their children explore their interests and understand the essential qualities, attitudes, aptitudes, and skills that will help them on their journey from school to the workforce. We are midway through our review of our Grade 9, with the goal of keeping students interested and motivated and preparing them better for high school.

 

I'd like to talk a bit more on the theme of readying students for our workplace. We brought the Future Seekers program to schools around the province. These unique kiosks are in every high school. They gather career-planning resources in one accessible place for teachers to use in the classroom, or for students to investigate on their own. They include more career planning, job research, and expanded entrepreneur-related curriculum, as outlined in the jobsHere workforce strategy. I think one of the nice things is that there are 50 videos of different jobs that are not really well known to folks, that you can actually see in action.

 

The province will double the number of high schools offering the skilled trades program from nine to 18. This program allows students the opportunity to explore the trades in a hands-on way, and to seize the opportunities that will come with the $25 billion shipbuilding contract. Skills trade centres, Madam Chairman, are a real solution to addressing this skilled labour shortage, and will help grow our economy. A new manufacturing trades course will be introduced in 2014 that will allow students to prepare for the good jobs arriving with the Irving shipbuilding project. Students will learn related skills, including those of ironworker, machinist, marine fitter, metal fabricator, sheet metal worker, and welder.

 

Madam Chairman, under Kids and Learning First, high school courses will be reviewed based on what today's graduates need. There are more than 150 high school courses offered across our province, and students only need 18 of those credits for graduation. While students deserve and want choice, courses must be more closely matched to the needs of employers and what is needed in the community. As well, the courses must keep our students interested and motivated.

 

Kids and Learning First also presents new ways and new places for students to learn. The province will triple the number of students who can access our on-line courses through the Nova Scotia Virtual School. This year, we will see an increase of enrolment to 1,500 students, and we have already doubled the number of courses. By expanding the virtual school, we will increase students' access to courses unavailable in their neighbourhood school. It will also help students who need a credit but have a scheduling conflict in their own school. The nice thing about this is that we can provide opportunities for students to take courses that they have an interest in. It will also help all students develop organizational, independent learning, and technological skills, which are the skills that one needs in our society today.

 

Kids and Learning First also takes the novel step of making the community the classroom. For the first time, students this year are earning a Personal Development Credit by working in their communities with fantastic organizations such as our cadet program, 4-H, and Junior Achievement just to name a few. Young people will be able to benefit from the citizenship and leadership skills offered by these groups. Students will also be able to earn a credit in the arts and language programs not offered in our schools. The number of organizations that will be eligible for a credit will expand for the next school year. It's very exciting for our students in the province. A school's community is very important.

 

Our community use of school grant gives $660,000 to enable more community groups to use our schools after hours for physical, educational and cultural activities. These are just a few of the actions the province is taking to help students succeed. The province is being realistic in its approach. We do not expect to see students' results improve overnight. We know this is going to take time but we know we all share the same goal - giving students the best chance for success.

 

Some of the longer-term goals require further work in collaboration with our education partners, with boards, teachers and families, as well as the wider community. The province looks forward to those conversations. By working together, we can help improve an already strong education system. Our students deserve nothing less.

 

I would like to take a moment to recognize some of the exceptional results by our students. First, I would like to note the achievement of our International Baccalaureate students. These hardworking students are some of the best in the world. Last year their overall pass rate was 10 per cent higher than IB students around the world, something to be very proud of. IB gives students the opportunity to develop independent study and problem-solving skills as well as work ethic that employers are looking for. Nova Scotia IB graduates continue to receive excellent recognition from universities, not only in Canada but abroad. They get scholarships and bursaries, making their higher education more affordable. Last year our 2012 graduates received almost $4 million in scholarships and bursaries.

 

I also want to congratulate some of our youngest readers. Our Grade 4 students finished tops in Canada, in an international assessment. Overall, only six of 45 jurisdictions around the world fared better than Nova Scotia in the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study. We found out last September that the 2011 Progress in International Reading Literacy Study showed that Nova Scotia was the only province to show significant improvement since the last PIRLS five years ago. As I said at that time, literacy is one of the most important skills our children need and this report confirms our focus on young readers is producing results.

 

In the Speech from the Throne and in Budget 2013, a renewed focus was announced for the department. We are now the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. Our children deserve the best possible start in life, to help them develop to their fullest potential. We heard from community members, professionals in the childcare sector, and the Early Years Advisory Council that we need a more integrated and assessable approach to providing early years programs and services.

 

With the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, we are making a strong commitment to parents, families, and children, to do just that. Soon we will be telling you more about this very exciting development. Additional resources will expand the ability of Grade Primary teachers to assess the developmental health of their students. For the first time, the Early Development Instrument (EDI) will be used to assess critical areas like physical well-being, emotional maturity, social skills and language in every one of our Primary classrooms.

 

As I mentioned, Madam Chairman, government supports community schools. We recognize the value of these buildings as centres of their communities. The $660,000 in community use of school grants is a targeted investment to reflect this government's commitment to after-school programs to give youth positive alternatives and to promote healthy, active living to both students and community groups.

 

Madam Chairman, government wants to continue to promote our schools as centres of the community. Our SchoolsPlus expansion, which I will talk about further in just a moment, plays a key role in broadening the use of our schools.

 

We also recognize the need to support schools in small, isolated communities around this province. The small, isolated school supplement provides full program and instructional space funding to schools in rural Nova Scotia. Elementary schools that are determined to have enrollments of less than 20 students per grade, and are located 30 minutes from the nearest school with the same grade levels, receive additional teaching staff and full space funding to deliver a quality educational experience for their students.

 

Junior high schools that have 40 students per grade, and are also 30 minutes away from the nearest junior high, receive additional teaching full-time equivalents and funding for their full building space. There are also additional teaching full-time equivalents, or FTEs, our government talk, for small high schools to enable schools to deliver the public school program.

 

What we are acknowledging with this support, Madam Chairman, is that schools are the hearts of their communities. While declining enrollment is most severe in rural Nova Scotia, it is not possible, in every case, to consolidate students at another school in another community because there may not be one close enough. That is why the province is allocating $22 million, through the funding formula, to support our smallest schools in rural Nova Scotia and help our boards maintain them as vibrant anchors in their communities.

 

As everyone knows, Madam Chairman, last week I announced that I asked school boards to put their upcoming school reviews on suspension and to delay closing any schools they identified in the 2012-13 school review process. Now this was not an easy decision but it is the right decision. We inherited a school review process and we tried to improve the existing process after hearing from parents, families and school boards. They are telling us that we need to make a major overhaul, to develop a more collaborative and less adversarial process.

 

We will take a comprehensive approach. We will relook at school reviews and also at what happens to a school after it closes, if it has to. We will invite school boards, families, communities and others to help us in developing a new school review process and we will also look to the commission on building our new economy for guidance.

 

Community schools have been an important focus for this government and this action shows our ongoing commitment to them. School reviews should look closely at whether the school can effectively and efficiently deliver the public school program; they should not be just about balancing a budget.

 

A discussion paper for public input will be ready this Fall and I encourage everyone who has an interest in community schools to participate. The new process is expected to be in place by the Spring of 2014.

 

Madam Chairman, we are presenting a budget that will deliver on our plan. It closely matches spending to enrollment declines and provides boards with funding to maintain the current level of high quality and to fund the new and expanded programs outlined in Kids and Learning First. There will be a $1.47 billion investment in the year 2013-14 for public education. It has increased by $3.3 million over the last year but of those are significant figures in the context of a balanced budget.

 

Education funding was protected and increased. Three school boards, including Halifax, Annapolis Valley and CSAP will see increases in funding. Remaining boards will see decreases in funding, but to protect regions experiencing significant enrollment decline, the decrease was capped at 1.5 per cent for this year. In order to achieve those caps, the board that hit the cap received 13.5 in additional funds to protect them.

 

In the past years school boards had to manage their wage and inflationary cost increases; that changes with this budget. Boards will no longer have to manage wage increases. Government is providing the total funding to cover wage settlements. Like all public sectors partners and Nova Scotian families, boards will still have to manage the cost of inflation.

 

I'm not saying that it is going to be easy for boards to develop their budgets, and tough choices will be made, but at the same time all school boards are elected to make decisions that are in the best interest of students and I have stated that our per student funding continues to increase. Government recognizes the challenge of these costs and has assisted boards in other ways.

 

In addition to the increase funding and covering of the wage increase, over the past year government has made changes to the pension rules that significantly reduce financial pressure on the boards. It launched a wide-ranging, shared-services project that will result in cost savings for the boards and those millions of dollars will stay with the board to spend as they need, and we've developed, in conjunction with the boards, a revised funding formula. The boards requested that we revisit the formula and through much consultation - 28 meetings to be exact - we adopted a model built on consensus. Every board supports the funding model. It is a fair model.

Madam Chairman, I mentioned earlier, even with the fiscal and enrollment pressures facing education, per-student funding will rise significantly next year by more than $300 per student. Our investment in students, guided by the parameters we set out for boards, will allow them to find significant percentage of their savings through retirements and attrition.

 

We have made it very clear that special needs education must be protected and we have increased funding again to $141 million. In the past two years we have increased this important funding by $16 million. All students, whatever their ability, whatever their individual circumstances, whatever their needs, deserve the best possible education and to reach their full potential.

 

My department is also doing its part to reduce administration so that as many dollars as possible make it into the classroom. This year we are reducing administration by $4.4 million, a 17.5 per cent reduction. Madam Chairman, I directed boards to protect the classroom and to look to their administrations costs first for savings and, like boards, the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development is looking at all options to reduce its costs and streamlining our management structure to better serve students and to better support school boards. Over the past three years we have reduced our department staff by 19 full-time equivalents. We are meeting the government's commitment of a 10 per cent reduction.

 

Our priority is putting kids and learning first and that means keeping more dollars in the classroom. We continue to do more to find alternative, less expensive ways to do business. As a department we are always looking carefully at our expenditures to ensure we carry out the business of the department as effectively and as economically as possible.

 

Strong management is essential in our public school system. To ensure that we have an effective and efficient administration structure, we have undertaken a comprehensive review of the department. We are now taking steps to adapt to the current reality. Our new structure, which will be in place over the coming months, will be designed to support implementation of the Kids and Learning First plan and will result in an effective and efficient management structure.

 

Madam Chairman, I would like to take this opportunity to further highlight some of the programs that illustrate our commitment to excellence in student learning, and student health and safety. As outlined in Kids and Learning First, we will be expanding SchoolsPlus, bringing more services to children and their families. Currently SchoolsPlus serves families, or groups of schools within every region. SchoolsPlus continues to expand to even more groups of schools and now there are SchoolsPlus hubs in every school board. Soon there will be SchoolsPlus in every county, with 28 across the province.

 

While the previous government kept SchoolsPlus as a pilot project, we have taken it into full implementation; this is very good news for Nova Scotia families. I hear people say they want more services available in communities and that school facilities are an excellent place to deliver them. Schools supported by this integrated service delivery model will have access to important services for students and families. This expansion means that students across the province will have school-based access to a wide range of valuable social services, such as mental health, addictions, and justice.

 

For those of you who might not be familiar with the SchoolsPlus model, this is a program that supports the recommendation of the Nunn Commission. A SchoolsPlus facilitator and a community outreach worker consult with students, families, teachers and others on what the community needs. Then they take a team approach, bringing together the right people, professionals, and programs tailored to meet the needs of children and their families. In a recent survey, 70 per cent of these partners say that they believe SchoolsPlus helps them serve children and youth better.

 

While every school will be different, schools currently participating coordinate and deliver about 100 services and activities, such as breakfast programs, anger management, parenting, adult literacy, employment support, youth health centres, homework clubs - which are fantastic - mentoring, and I could go on. Each one is a little bit different and they are all vibrant and every school site that has one can say nothing but positive things, and the difference it has made in so many of our families in the community.

 

The province has also committed to hiring mental health clinicians to work alongside guidance counsellors in our SchoolsPlus schools. The help and intervention young people receive through this model of service delivery also - and I'm hearing this very loudly and we have so much data - improves their attendance, academics, discipline and their social life is thriving and it sets them up for success.

 

Having good literacy skills, Madam Chairman, is the foundation of success throughout life. The Department of Education and Early Childhood Development recognizes the critical importance of early reading intervention for our young readers who need additional support building their literacy skills. We know that some students require additional support to address their specific needs and the best time to support students who have trouble reading is in the early grades. Succeeding in Reading is just two short years old and is benefitting more students who may be struggling to master their reading and writing skills.

 

Nova Scotia teachers are very well trained in early literacy interventions. Their ideas and knowledge is resulting in a flexible and effective framework to support students who need additional help with reading development. I would like to say that with this budget, and as we move forward, we now have it in Primary and Grade 1 and Grade 2 and next year it is going into Grade 3. The students who are struggling get the help they need, when they need it. Succeeding in Reading, as I said, is built into our funding formula.

 

Madam Chairman, I am pleased to highlight another area of improvement in our schools. The government and school boards continue to make major strides in modernizing our public school system for the benefit of all our students. Our schools are being challenged to look for ways to do things better. The information we are able to gather will provide government, teachers, school administration and parents with an understanding of how and where resources are being used and, in turn, will help make smart decisions to use future resources wisely.

 

Our new provincial student information system, iNSchool, is now up and running in all of our schools across the province. As a former teacher and as Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development, I know iNSchool will have a significant impact on public education. Families are able to help their children achieve the best in school by having access to more information about their school lives. The system is enabling parents to be more engaged in their children's education. Attendance, grades, homework assignments, teachers' comments, and school bulletins are available through the student/parent portal in real time. I do hear that maybe the students are not as keen to have their families know their attendance, but parents certainly do like this benefit.

 

Parents are able to access the portal at home, work, school, and in public libraries - wherever there is Internet access. Parents like the fact that they can be more involved in their children's education, and it helps teachers more closely track student progress and follow up more quickly when help is needed. They are able to see right away when a student might be struggling in an area.

 

iNSchool is about leveraging technology to better support our student achievement and support our students. Teachers are now able to record and communicate marks instantly and have the flexibility to perform certain tasks from home. Teachers also have access to better student data that will enable them to deliver tailored learning strategies and programs, thus having a positive impact on student achievement.

 

In the classroom, teachers will be in a better position to identify students who might be at risk, and will definitely be able to identify them more quickly so that interventions can take place swiftly. As you know, moving from class to class in high school, it's sometimes hard to have that communication. Because of this technology, teachers are now able to see that information and are able to see if a child is having some difficulty.

 

At a provincial level, educators will have access to a wider range of student and program information that will help them and us - the department - make informed decisions on student learning. Students will benefit from stronger programs and policies, parents will benefit from increased access to information about their children, and teachers and school administrators will have better information about their children and the school. School boards and the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development will benefit by having access to a wider range of student and program data for program and policy decisions.

 

A modern, province-wide information management system has been a long-time priority of government, because it will allow school boards to meet and demonstrate educational programming services and performance standards in relation to student achievement and overall school performance. Educators at all levels of our provincial education system need to make well-informed decisions. They need to make effective and efficient use of our resources while continuing to prepare our students for future success, and we are well on the way to achieving that goal. We will continue to look at ways for iNSchool to contribute to student success.

 

I'm extremely delighted about our expansion of on-line schooling in Nova Scotia. Distance education has continued to grow and evolve in Nova Scotia. This year we will continue to expand the Nova Scotia Virtual School. This expansion will help meet the needs of more students. There will also be an increase in the number of on-line high school courses in English and in French. The Nova Scotia Virtual School is just one of the ways we are trying to find creative solutions to ensure the equity of access and opportunity for each and every one of our students. It will help ensure that all students - regardless of where they live - are provided the same access to courses they need to graduate.

 

The Nov Scotia Virtual School is a co-operative project between the province's school boards and the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. It provides for the delivery of public school and correspondence courses and on-line extensions of school-based classes to students, and also supports professional development and on-line meetings for teachers and other board and department staff.

 

Right now we have 45 high school courses offered through the Virtual School, which means we've already exceeded our target that we set over two years ago. These courses currently include advanced math 12, chemistry, accounting, calculus, visual arts, political science, African Canadian studies, law, and many more. We are developing new courses in both languages, converting correspondence courses to on-line, and updating and reviewing current on-line courses to meet the Nova Scotia Virtual School standards.

 

Investing in on-line learning opens the doors to new opportunities for Nova Scotia students, especially in small rural schools where they may not have the numbers to be able to provide the wide variety of courses available in our urban schools.

 

Madam Chairman, our students deserve to attend effective, safe and healthy learning environments. This year we are investing $84 million in our young people by building and renovating 39 schools. We are providing for our students the best schools, classrooms and the technology that we can provide. We are building new schools in Bedford, Amherst, New Glasgow, Liverpool, Dartmouth and Bible Hill. The new high school in Bedford, to be called the C.P. Allen High School, will open this year - very exciting.

 

Work continues on the new P-8 school in New Glasgow, to be called the New Glasgow Academy, and the new middle school in Liverpool. Work on the new elementary school in Amherst will be underway shortly.

 

Keeping our existing schools updated and modern, to meet the need of students, is also crucial. In 33 communities, we are renovating and upgrading their schools. Budget 2013 contains funding for all of the projects that we announced in the capital plan last December. This was the third straight year the province released the capital plan before the Spring budget, and there's a reason for that. Previous governments spent capital money inconsistently, huge amounts and at various times throughout the year, with completion dates up to eight years out. Announcing the plan in December sends a clear signal of what the province intends to do in the year ahead and gives the private sector greater opportunity to prepare for projects, creating efficiencies, and cost savings for the province.

 

We continue to do things differently. For the first time, we asked boards for business plans for capital construction projects in 2013-14. To help the boards prepare the business plans, we have committed $0.5 million to help them research and write plans for seven potential projects. I look forward to getting the project business plans for 2014-15 by the end of this month.

 

Madam Chairman, I said earlier that we want safe and healthy learning environments. Last year the Government of New Brunswick discovered lead in their drinking water fountains, in some of the schools. We have no evidence of lead in the water of our schools here in Nova Scotia but we do want to be cautious and we want to be careful. Therefore, we are spending $230,000 to test representative samples of water from our water fountains. This will provide us with the scope of work to be done, if any is needed. We want to make sure that we are being very proactive. An interdepartmental team - from Health and Wellness, Environment, Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal and Education and Early Childhood Development - is overseeing this project.

 

We are also looking to make our schools more energy-efficient. We will invest $34 million over the next four years to make 90 schools in Halifax more energy-efficient. The project is expected to reduce the Halifax Regional School Board's greenhouse gas emissions by 20 per cent.

 

Madam Chairman, I would like to take a few minutes to talk about the issue of bullying and cyberbullying. Whether it's in our classrooms, on our streets, or through a text message, the act of ongoing intimidation and persecution will not be tolerated. I am proud to be the first minister to introduce an anti-bullying action plan. In my time as minister I have had the privilege of meeting students from all over this province; we have had many conversations about bullying. If you want to know what's really going on in our schools, we need to, and we have talked to our students.

 

We know that bullying and cyberbullying are very serious problems that we need, as a society, to meet head-on. We know that bullying has a major impact on young people and a major impact on their families. It affects a person's self-esteem; how they function in school. It actually makes them not even want to come to school, in many cases. We know it's an extremely complex problem and it needs a solution that reflects that.

 

Madam Chairman, one thing is clear; we need to face bullying together. We must speak up, support each other, and say we will not accept this behaviour in our classrooms and in our communities. That's why our provincial action plan is called Speak Up: An Action Plan to Address Bullying and Cyberbullying Behaviour.

 

Madam Chairman, this is a foundational document that outlines why we are taking the approach we are, to address the root causes of bullying and cyberbullying. Our government has already taken many steps such as hiring an anti-bullying coordinator, defining bullying and cyberbullying in legislation, tracking its scope and severity through iNSchool and offering more training to educators and school support staff. Also, 27 schools are using restorative approaches to deal with conflicts, and a province-wide program is being developed.

 

Madam Chairman, our Speak Up plan lays out more than 40 action plans over three years, from several government departments and agencies including Justice, Health and Wellness, Community Services, Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, as well as the Nova Scotia Advisory Council on the Status of Women and the Human Rights Commission. We will invest $400,000 on the Speak Up plan this year. Other provinces have our Speak Up plan and are looking at it closely. I want to add that I've been hearing from ministers who have been calling and they appreciate the work that Nova Scotia has done in this and are using this as a model in their own province.

 

Madam Chairman, if we could legislate bullying away we would, but you just can't do that. Just like taking away a child's cellphone, like members opposite would like to do, it will not stop cyberbullying. To make a real change and build safer communities for our youth, we need a community response to bullying and cyberbullying. Collaboration is the key to achieve this.

 

More than anything, what we need is a change in our culture in our society. We need to help our youth build respectful and responsible relationships. It's about addressing bullying and cyberbullying in many ways - to get to the root causes and to reduce its effects so our young people may one day see a world where bullying is rare. We can do that by working together, by speaking up to say that bulling will not be tolerated and by helping our youth develop positive, healthy relationships. We are building a foundation with legislation, actions, research and collaborative partnerships.

 

Madam Chairman, we know it won't be easy, and the end of bullying is not a year or two away. But this plan builds on everything we've learned and lays out a framework that will help create a safer, more welcoming environment where our students can thrive. For example, we know that students often turn to teachers, guidance councillors, school psychologists or social workers for help when dealing with social and emotional issues at school. This year we launched an initiative to train school staff to identify mental health problems. The Go-To training helps connect students to the supports they need, and Go-To, meaning that a person is trained on staff and a student knows they can go to that person.

Madam Chairman, let me conclude by saying that I am indeed honoured to be minister of a department overseeing such an important service to our children and to their families. Whatever challenges we face now and into the future, I believe we are well-equipped because of the richness of our educational offerings and their accessibility to all Nova Scotians.

 

Madam Chairman, I appreciate the opportunity to share the highlights of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development's financial plan for the rest of the fiscal year and I do look forward to answering questions from my colleagues. With that, thank you very much.

 

MADAM CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Colchester North.

 

HON. KAREN CASEY: Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you to the minister for the opening remarks and for the overview of what's going on in public education in our schools. I'm pleased to see that Dr. Lowe and Frank Dunn are here to help provide the detail, if there's any detail that the minister may not have. I will try to identify the document I'm looking at before I ask questions, so you can perhaps have it in front of you.

 

The first question is from the Highlight Bulletin that was with the budget. If we can look at the section there that is Putting Kids and Learning First - you have the document there? Okay, if you can look under Putting Kids and Learning First, the section about establishing the children's centres, and we're looking at $1.2 million for that. I have some questions around those centres. First of all, can you distinguish between children's centres and SchoolsPlus?

 

MS. JENNEX: We are in the process of making our announcement about that so the honourable members will get a very good, comprehensive overview of what we are doing. The difference between the school centres will be for our youngest students in a model site that will be linked to our SchoolsPlus, so they are different centres. I will be providing an opportunity, on Wednesday, to give a very comprehensive overview of the plans that we have in place for our Early Years Centres.

 

MS. CASEY: So if you could perhaps tell me then - not the detail, if the detail is not ready to be shared publicly, but on the $1.2 million. What would have been used to calculate a budget of $1.2 million?

 

MS. JENNEX: We will be having three demonstration sites at the cost of $450,000. What this includes is hiring full-time employees, 5.5, and it will include the operating costs for those demonstration sites and also, as I said - operating costs and staff.

 

MS. CASEY: So as I looked through, I noted that in the budget line it does show 5.5 staff. Am I clear that the cost of the 5.5 is in the $450,000?

 

MS. JENNEX: It's actually in the total amount of the $1.2 million, it's included in that.

 

MS. CASEY: So just again so I'm clear, each site is approximately $450,000?

 

MS. JENNEX: Each site, I think, is $125,000; in total it is $450,000 for the three demonstration sites.

 

MS. CASEY: Can you tell me what the balance of that $1.2 million would be used for?

 

MS. JENNEX: I do really want to talk about this and it's a very exciting time in Nova Scotia. I'm in an awkward position because I would like to tell you all of the plans that we're doing, but in terms of the money cost - I know that you want an answer today on this and I'm really waiting for Wednesday.

 

As part of an overall philosophical shift with our department, that money is also going to be used to integrate the department with other departments, to create the Early Years Centres. So this $1.2 million is including the integration, it's including our sites, and

and it's including the staff at the sites too.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. So it is a multi-departmental project. I'm assuming from this that Education and Early Childhood Development's commitment to that is $1.2 million.

 

MS. JENNEX: The bulk of that comes from Education and Early Childhood Development, but there's going to be integration from other budgets, other monies coming from the other departments to integrate together.

 

MS. CASEY: Just to be clear, though - there is $1.2 million coming from the Education and Early Childhood Development budget for this particular project?

 

MS. JENNEX: It is in our budget line. About $450,000 has been brought in from other departments into the Education and Early Childhood Development line. So it is in our budget, but the money has been - when you're integrating departments and their budgets are being integrated - about $450,000 will be coming from other departments into the department.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. I know this is not a question for the minister, but based on that, could we expect then to see budget lines in other departments that are specific to this project?

 

MS. JENNEX: This is the first step in an integration. I'm really looking forward to Wednesday, when I will be able to give a thorough overview of the direction that we're moving in.

I cannot speak to other budgets at this point, but I know our budget line for the very first steps that we're taking. On Wednesday we will come forward with what's actually happening, but it's the beginning of a shift.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. Perhaps we'll still be in estimates after the announcement on Wednesday and we can get the detail.

 

If I could go on to the next bullet on that particular budget highlight, it speaks to capping of class sizes. There's no dollar figure there. What is the estimated cost for that particular initiative?

 

MS. JENNEX: They're going to get the exact dollar amount in that it is now part of the funding formula. So whereas before it was not included, we've changed the funding formula, as the member would know - the member has heard me comment on that in my speech, and probably at other points in the Chamber. Our funding formula was worked on for a long time period - with 28 different meetings across the board - because we wanted to make it fair and equitable.

 

It is now in our funding formula, so when it runs through - and we're looking for the exact cost of this. It will just take a minute; we've got a lot of paper over here. We're really working very hard in the department, trying to incorporate our documents on our iPads so that we don't have as much paper. We didn't quite get there this time, but we are making a shift so that we're not impacting on our trees in this way.

 

During that time period, as you know, last year, based on our calculations of where our students were going to be, we felt that we didn't really need a class cap because of declining enrollment and, as you heard me say, most of our classes are well under 22 in a classroom in our early years.

 

With a lot of people moving in certain areas, we ended up with pressures in some areas of the province. I met with a principal in the Hammonds Plains area - I think that was the school I was in - and I asked her: what is your biggest concern, I'd like to hear what you have to say about how things are going at the school. She said her biggest concern was that on the very first day of school, 31 students arrived on the doorstep who were not accounted for. So there were pressures all across.

 

You know you can do a lot of planning and the member opposite, as an administrator before entering politics, would know that a lot of your plans - you have to be flexible. So when we saw there were pressures across our growth areas, we did step in and reduced our class sizes. There were 73 teachers hired for that pressure, that was about $2.3 million that we put in last Fall.

 

This year, our estimate line for that part of the funding formula would be - I can't really separate it out, it's built into the program funding. It is part of our funding formula so I don't have that information at this point to what it's costing in terms of having that part of our funding formula.

 

MS. CASEY: Rather than take any more of your time, or of your staff, we'll leave that question for now.

 

Still focusing on the class-size capping, what provisions are made for split grades or combined classes, like a P/ P1 or a 1/2 or a 2/3, with respect to the cap?

 

MS. JENNEX: Well first I'd like to say that the very specific line item that the member is looking for, I've been assured we can get that before the end of the evening. I just wanted to make a comment, too, that in many of our communities we do have combined classes; it's my preferred way of teaching. As a teacher for 30 years, I liked multi-age groupings.

 

The question is, how is that? That's part of our model on keeping our class sizes under 25 in our Primary to Grade 3. It's included because there's flexibility within, for the boards. We're not calling it a hard-cap because, as the member knows, if you have 26 children in a particular grade, would you disrupt that whole grade for - say it's a Grade 1 class and you have 26 Grade 1 students and the next grade, for the one student, do you make those changes? So it is flexible.

 

We are asking boards, though, to keep our class sizes under 25, but there is flexibility. There's flexibility in terms of the administrator to look at the class and what is best for the student, in terms of combined classes or multi-age groupings.

 

I am actually hearing from across the province that some of our smaller schools are having difficulties in terms of the social group, that because the classes are so small, the class goes from Primary to Grade 1 to Grade 2 to Grade 3, as a single grade, and they don't have the opportunity of working with different students. I came from a school system where we had three and four groups of children at each grade, so I think there's the opportunity in our smaller schools to actually explore the philosophical component of multi-age groupings and what that looks like and not to be pressured into what I call a combined class due to numbers but look at it in terms of what's best for students and their learning.

 

I know many teachers are exploring that. I know that in the school system I was in, we led the way in terms of our multi-age grouping. We've got Marion Leier who travels the province and talks about this. I prefer working with that model because our youngest students are benefitting from the older students and the older students are benefitting with leadership.

 

To answer the question around the model, it's included in the flexibility of that cap of 25, from Primary to Grade 3.

 

MS. CASEY: If I could just give an example, if a school administrator finds themself looking at a split grade - a Grade 2/3 combination - and they happen to have more than 25 students in that combined class, and I know you are talking about a soft cap, but would we expect to find combined classes in our province with more than 25 students in that P-3 range?

 

MS. JENNEX: I can't speculate on what's going to happen in the Fall, in terms of our classes, but I know administrators and teachers - their classes are always designed to benefit our students. I don't know how many combined classes would exceed the cap of 25 but I know I was in a school in the Halifax Regional School Board and I walked by one of the classes and I noted that there seemed to be an awful lot of students in that particular class. The principal said to me that class did have more than a desired number, but she said it was "a dream class" - no difficulties in terms of the children interacting with each other, no discipline problems.

 

As you know, academics are one of our major concerns when we're dealing with putting our classes together, but discipline and children who have significant behaviour problems are probably more stressing on a class. The principal said they decided that they would have this group to be a larger group because it was "a dream class" but another class they kept very small because there were significant needs in the class.

 

There's flexibility, especially in our larger schools, to look at how we configure our classrooms. It's not that an administrator goes, here's my funding formula, here are my funds and now I'm going to fill up each class to 25 and if it spills over, go into the next class. It's based on personality, academic need, behaviour - it's all of those considerations - and the strengths of the teachers. In some schools the administrator makes those decisions; other schools it's the staff that make them. I can't speculate on how many combined classes we would see tip over 25, but I know that every administrator and every school board in this province is going to do their very best to make sure our youngest grades are below the 25, and based on our enrollment numbers across the province, that shouldn't be a problem in some of our areas.

 

I think that in some of our growth areas we might see an administrator in a school work very hard to have their classes set up and have everything balanced and everything looking good and that first day of school comes, and we have children we need to serve so there might be a disruption again next year. If we have a school where 31 children came in Primary to Grade 2, arrive on the very first day of school, there might be more teachers needed to be added to that school. As you know there might be another school where no students show up at all.

 

We have challenges across Nova Scotia and over the summer some parents take it upon themselves to move or relocate and we have some growth areas. I noticed as I was driving through one of the areas in Halifax, an awful lot of apartments are growing. I would imagine that when those apartments and condos are finished, the school in the area will probably have some pressures, but it will all work out.

I can't speculate what it will look like in the Fall, but I know that as in every year, historically, in September, things do change. I know, myself, I was in a class one year where we had three P-1 classes and we actually had to hire another teacher. It took to the end of October until we had everything reconfigured. Those pressures do happen and I know school boards and teachers will work hard to make sure that there is the least amount of disruption as absolutely possible. I'm very sure most of our class sizes will be well under 25, just based on the number of students who are in the community.

 

MS. CASEY: The question, of course, was the cost of the initiative and I understand staff will be able to have that for us before the end of today. If I take us to the next bullet there, and we do need to keep our questions focused on budget, we're talking about $3.7 million that is allocated there for what is described as 25 new program support staff - psychologists and speech-language - and 15 TAs. So could I have a breakdown of that $3.7 million?

 

MS. JENNEX: Thank you very much. The total special education allocation, as was brought forward, is increasing by $3.7 million. This is restricted for teacher assistants, that they can fund 15 others - actually, what happened is they changed the numbers on the funding formula. We have program support - psychologists and speech-language. The funding formula changed so that we could increase supports to our schools through the use of the funding formula, to have more speech-language, and that would be four new FTEs; psychologists, it's six new FTEs; and program support, it's funding 15 new FTEs. Just adding to that, that means that the number that are in our system now would remain constant. These are additional, on top of, and the funding formula for teaching assistants has been changed so that there will be an opportunity for 15 new positions.

 

So our funding formula for the teaching assistants - a real problem, when you get to a certain age, is focusing on print. I used to make fun of a friend who used to have this problem, and now I find that I'm there, so I apologize. My arm is long enough though, Madam Chairman, so thank you.

 

We changed our funding formula for teaching assistants, one in 100? So it's one in 100.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. I'll repeat the question. The question was a breakdown of the $3.7 million.

 

MS. JENNEX: Thank you very much. So I thought I answered the question, but I'm going to give it another run.

 

The breakdown of the $3.7 million is all invested in people - people who serve our students in the province. As I said, we are going to retain the existing speech-language pathologists who are in our system - the number - and fund four new positions. With our school psychologists, we will be retaining the number that we have in our system, and we will be able to add six new positions. Our program support - and our program support, I just want to clarify, would be folks who have specialty within our special education, so program consultants who work with students with autism, for example - so we would retain the existing, and fund 15 - that $3.7 million is to fund 15 new - and based on the change in the formula, it is giving the ability for 15 new positions for teaching assistants. So the $3.7 million is all invested in people, and those are the numbers that I've provided. It's to retain the positions we have, and also to add the new positions that I brought forward.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. So if we are retaining x number of speech-language and x number of school psychologists, can you give me how many speech-language people we are retaining - which would obviously, from what I hear you say, be included in the $3.7 million - how many school psychologists we are retaining, and then the new ones, and how many teacher assistants we are retaining?

 

MS. JENNEX: Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. As the member opposite knows, around funding for people in our system, we use ratios on how - for example, to put a teacher in our system, we look at how many children there are, and then that's how our funding formula moves forward. Within our funding formula we've changed our matrix, which lowers the number, which gives the ability to add more folks into our system. In terms of the exact numbers of speech pathologists, psychologists, and resource - for one of a better word, or special education consultants - I would have to get that information, probably by the end of the day.

 

I just wanted to say that our funding formula for resource teachers, for every 150 students in our system, we allocate one resource teacher. For every 1,400 students in our system, we allocate one speech pathologist. For every 1,800 students in our system, there is an allocation of one psychologist. So for support for children with intensive special needs, we have a funding formula for every child who is designated to have a very severe need and that is one in 10. For every 100 children in our system we are funded for one teaching assistant, EPA, I know they have different names across the province. In terms of the exact numbers that we have in our system now, I don't have the number in my estimates right now, but we can find that out.

 

Oh, maybe we have it here. In terms of our TAs in the system right now, we have 1,926.5 across Nova Scotia. The Annapolis Valley Regional School Board has 220.2 EAs; Cape Breton-Victoria Regional School Board has 340.6; Chignecto-Central Regional School Board has 376; the CSAP has 51; our Halifax Regional School Board has 582.8; the South Shore Regional School Board has 129.2; the Strait Regional School Board has 123.5; Tri-County Regional School Board has 103.2, which is for the province 1,926.5 Educational Assistants or EPAs - I know we have different names - supporting our students across the province, thank you.

 

MS. CASEY: If we say we have approximately 2,000 EAs and they are included in this $3.7 million budget - is that what I'm hearing?

 

MS. JENNEX: I'm trying to see if I'm going to answer this question that satisfies - the numbers that I just gave are included in the 141 allocation for special education. The increase of 3.7 in that envelope - what I'm talking about is that the extra people who will be hired into our system is because of the increase of 3.7, but the overall envelop is $141 million, which captured the numbers that I'm speaking of. It's very clear that the 3.7 is to increase the dedicated funding for special education in the province. So next year that will be $141 million in an envelope for our students with special needs.

 

I want the members in the chamber to recognize that that is dedicated funding for students with special needs in our system. Those students are also captured in our regular funding. So they are funded through our regular funding - this is over and above providing the services that children with significant needs have, to be able to provide that opportunity for them to be successful, to be independent and, in some cases, to enjoy being in school with their classmates and to be able to be social with their friends.

 

I think that we have a very rich province because we have the ability for all of our students to come to school. Because of the dedicated special education funding, it does provide the opportunity for our school boards to support students with significant needs. I'm very proud to be in a province where students are integrated in our system. We don't look at our system as any different from today or yesterday; we do this. It is just who we are, as Nova Scotians; we include everybody in our schools. If you are in a school, we accommodate you.

 

If you have mobility issues, we are going to make sure that your school has been modified appropriately so that you have either elevators or ramps, so that you can be in our school. It's very important to who we are, as Nova Scotians, to be able to provide this funding so every student who wants to come into our school system has the ability to come into our school system.

 

I have been in other jurisdictions and I have been in many schools outside of Nova Scotia. When I talk about what we do in Nova Scotia, to them it is a foreign concept. They have special education as a stand-alone class; children are not integrated into the regular classroom. I think we should stand as Nova Scotians, being very proud that we have a system as respectful as we do, and that the fabric of who we are, as Nova Scotians, is enriched by those students who have significant needs in our system and are treated with the respect and caring by all of our teachers in our province.

 

MS. CASEY: Mr. Chairman, we certainly are getting way off topic, as far as estimates and budget dollars. The question is, and the question has been - is the $3.7 million that is on the third bullet down, to cover the cost, as it states there, 25 new program support staff and 15 TAs? Is that what the $3.7 million is going to cover?

 

MS. JENNEX: Mr. Chairman, if I make an error, please forgive me. It is my understanding that when I'm asked a question, I will answer it to the best of my ability. I'm really trying very hard to answer the question, based on the information I have, that the $3.7 million that we have put in the budget is to cover the cost for hiring new support people within our system. Very clearly, it's articulated in the budget documentation, to enable school boards to hire 25 new program support staff, psychologists and speech language pathologists to help children with special needs and provide funding for 15 teacher assistants. If you add all that up, based on running it through the formula, $3.7 million has been added to the $141 million envelope that is for our students in our schools who need some extra support.

 

They are also funded, very clearly, under other funding formula. That is the question that I was asked, I am answering it. This is the third time I've answered it. I don't know if I'm missing something in the question. On that, I apologize, but I will just say that as the bulletin says, $3.7 million is to cover extra people coming into our system.

 

On top of this, we also have students who are leaving our system, which means our ratios for our students will be much enhanced. With your permission, Mr. Chairman, I would also like to answer the question that the member brought forward - how much did it cost to implement the class caps from Primary to Grade 3, so that they were 25? It's $14.4 million to implement the class caps.

 

MS. CASEY: What is the average salary that is used to calculate the costs of 25 new support persons and 15 new TAs? What's the average salary that would have been used for both of those categories?

 

MS. JENNEX: I'm going to answer this question in a way that I know that the member opposite - I'm going to say something that we teachers talk about and that is the school psychologist, the speech pathologist, and the program specialists would be at a TC7 level. I don't have the graph in front of me but they are based at a TC7. The cost of their salary plus all their benefits are all calculated in that.

 

A TA, an educational assistant, a teacher assistant - I need to have common language on this but coming from the Annapolis Valley, we use the term EA - it's based on a $35,000 salary, plus benefits.

 

MS. CASEY: If you have 25 staff and let's say your average salary was $60,000 and you have 15 and your average salary is $30,000, you don't get anywhere near $3.7 million. I'm questioning how you arrived at $3.7 million?

 

MS. JENNEX: I don't have the grid in front of me for what a TC7 makes and I didn't make a comment about an average salary. The only numerical salary that I gave was for an EA, which is about $35,000 plus benefits. I don't know what it is for a TC7. I'd have to find that out but as you know, as well as your salary there are also benefits, pension, all those things are included. I know it is a TC7 but I didn't say it was $60,000. I think $60,000 would be more of a TC6.

 

It is another bit of information that we will gladly get from the Finance Department but I do know that this money is dedicated solely to add more people to support our students and our teachers within our system and also, adding to that, we have to recognize that we're also going to have over 2,000 fewer students in our system next year. We are maintaining the support that we have and we're making sure that we have additional supports for students who have significant needs within our system, to support them to be successful.

 

MS. CASEY: I was the one who introduced the $60,000 as possibly an average but I would say that even if you do the math with an $80,000 average salary, you still don't come up with $3.7 million. I would expect that when this bulletin was printed, someone did some math, somewhere, to come up with $3.7 million. On behalf of the Nova Scotians who are watching here, I'm looking for an explanation and a breakdown of that and I'm not getting it. I guess my question would be - someone at the department, you have two people there with you who I would expect know the answer - what average salaries were used to calculate $3.7 million on that line?

 

MS. JENNEX: I'm am going to also repeat that we are maintaining the number of people who support our students, our speech pathologists, our psychologists, in our system, with the addition of adding in 25 new positions into our education system that is to increase our overall envelope to - it's $141 million. I know we just added $14.4 million for the class caps, so I want to make sure I've got my numbers right. It's $141 million in dedicated, protected funding for our school boards, so that $3.7 million ensures that we're able to hire - and I'm just going to go back to the bulletin - 25 new program support staff, psychologists, and speech-language pathologists to help children with special needs and provide the funding for 15 teacher assistants. That $3.7 million has been added to that envelope, so not only do we maintain the number we have, but we are also able to add the numbers that I've just given.

 

The overall envelope has increased to make sure that the students in our province who have significant needs have the supports they need, and also students having the ability to have more school psychologists and speech pathologists. We've been hearing - and I know the member opposite has brought this up on many occasions - about the need for speech pathologists and psychologists in our system, and this opportunity to add even more support for our students this coming year - along with the fact that we're also losing over 2,000 students out of our system as a whole. Thank you.

 

MS. CASEY: Mr. Chairman, before we leave that, perhaps the staff would be able to provide for us what figures were used to calculate $3.7 million, if we're talking 25 program-support people and 15 TAs. I would ask that the staff be able to give us that breakdown.

 

I will move on to the next bullet there, which is talking about math. Again, there's a $3 million budget line there - a $3 million notation. Again, someone had to come up with some math to get $3 million, so what does the $3 million consist of?

MS. JENNEX: Mr. Chairman, there's been an awful lot of work done in the department, and especially a lot of work done across the province with our teachers from Primary to Grade 3 and our Grade 10 teachers, in preparing to make a shift in our math programming here in Nova Scotia to make sure that our children have the opportunity to have that foundational component to their math, that they are going to be successful. We have heard from industry, we've heard from employers and I've definitely been hearing from parents that our students were graduating without the basic math skills that they needed to be successful.

 

I actually heard from universities, and I know that many of the universities had to put on remedial math classes and a high school credit before students were able to take university-level math. We're going to change all that, and this is the first year coming up. We've invested $3 million, and this is to ensure that every classroom, from Primary to Grade 3 and our Grade 10, have all the books and resources. So $2 million is covering all the digital technology they need, and the resources and books, and the $1 million is going to be used for professional development as we continue to roll this forward, because this year coming up we have Primary, Grades 1, 2, and 3, and Grade 10. The next year, as we move forward, the PD will be taking with our Grades 4, 5, and 6 teachers and our Grade 11 - so over a three-year period. Did I get my - make sure I've got my grades level - so over a three-year period, by the end of the three years we will have shifted our math program to the Western protocol, which gives our children the opportunity to have mastery with every level and every concept before moving into the next.

 

So it's $3 million total investment, and that's for books, digital technology, the resources, and the professional development that are needed with the change in the program.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I just remind the honourable member that there's about 14 minutes left in this round.

 

The honourable member for Colchester North.

 

MS. CASEY: Mr. Chairman, I thank the minister for the breakdown. It's now $2 million and $1 million, so that's fine. I guess my question - if we can focus on the $1 million for professional development - when do you anticipate the beginning of the expenditures of that $1 million on PD?

 

MS. JENNEX: Mr. Chairman, as the member opposite knows, professional development is an ongoing process for every teacher in this province, so we have professional development ongoing now, in terms of math. Over the summer we will be providing the in-servicing and workshops, getting teachers ready for the September rollout. So when do we anticipate the tapping into the million? Well, it's an ongoing process and, as she knows, in terms of budgets, this work is starting now. It's just a continuation of the work that we are doing.

 

A very dedicated team is working in the department with the math and the professional development that is needed for our teachers. It's a very exciting time in Nova Scotia to be able to actually bring in a protocol that we know is going to provide an opportunity for our children to be successful in math.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. The $2 million of that $3 million that is for books, digital and other resources - can you be more specific with how much of that $2 million will go to buy textbooks?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I wonder, before the minister answers that question, if we could have an introduction?

 

MS. JENNEX: Oh, absolutely.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Hammonds Plains-Upper Sackville.

 

MR. MAT WHYNOTT: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the minister and the member for Colchester North giving me the opportunity to do a quick introduction. I would like to draw the attention of the members of the House to the east gallery where we have Breanna Lanceleve and her parents Victor and Joy, who are here. She is from Middle Sackville.

 

Earlier today I tabled a resolution talking about her career in hockey and she just tells me that in the next couple of weeks she'll be on her way to Burnaby, B.C., for nationals. So if the members of the House could give her a warm welcome, please. (Applause)

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development.

 

MS. JENNEX: Thank you very much to the member opposite for a very interesting question, in terms of resources and using the term "books". I know we all value books but in the age that we are in, a lot of our schools are actually moving to digital media so most of the resources of the $2 million is for the digital media, the software and, of course, for example the iPads and things that are needed to deliver the program.

 

Mr. Chairman, also at this time I'd like to answer another question that was brought up earlier, if that's okay? The member wanted to know what number was calculated within the formula. The average teacher's salary that they use to base the $3.7 million addition was $70,000, plus the benefits. This was to cover, as I have said, new - plus it maintains the existing positions, because they would normally not be funded, due to the enrollment decline of 2,316 students. So there's where the $3.7 million is. Because of our reduction in students, we're maintaining the number that we have, plus the average salary that calculated was $70,000, plus benefits.

MS. CASEY: Well if we can go back to that question then, how many are we retaining? What I think I hear the minister saying is that in that $3.7 million, we have 25 new support staff, we have 15 TAs and we're also funding those who we are retaining. We know that the numbers that the minister gave a while ago for EAs across the province far exceeds $3.7 million, so if you're looking at the cost to retain those, it doesn't add up. So what are we retaining along with the 25 and the 15, to come to $3.7 million?

 

MS. JENNEX: I guess I'm going to just go right back - it's a good thing we're changing the math program, because I understand the formula of how we're doing this. For the $3.7 million we are retaining the number of school psychologists and speech pathologists in our system that normally would not be funded, because there is an enrolment decrease of 2,316 students, plus we're using an average salary of $70,000. So we are not using $3.7 million to retain what is in the system at this point.

 

What we are doing is, we've added $3.7 million to the overall envelope that we are giving our school boards. That is dedicated, protected funding for school boards to be able to meet the needs of our students in our school system. Thank you.

 

MS. CASEY: Let's go to the question that we were on when we were interrupted there; that was the math program. That was the question about the resources. We were told that would total $2 million and it would include digital media, software, and maybe some textbooks - or maybe not some textbooks.

 

My question is, do we have the resources that we need to deliver the math program? Do we have those resources?

 

MS. JENNEX: Thank you very much. I'm going to rephrase this to make sure - I'm going to look at the member opposite. You're saying, do we have the resources to be able to implement math?

 

MS. CASEY: The minister gave us a breakdown of the $3 million, and told us that $2 million of that was for books, digital media, software, and those kinds of resources. My question is, do we now have those resources that we will be using come September to deliver the math curriculum?

 

MS. JENNEX: I wouldn't be able to answer if the material is in the department at this point, but I do know that - I'm allowed to use names of people in department - I know Ann Blackwood has ordered all of the materials that we need for our children. It might be at the Book Bureau, or some of it might be distributed. I know that it has been ordered.

 

I guess the question was, do we have it in the system at this particular time? I can't say that the deliveries have been made, but I do know that all the appropriate planning has been made for everything that we need for Primary, Grade 1, Grade 2, Grade 3, and our Grade 10 to make sure that in September, when our children come into their classrooms, the teachers have the resources that they need and also they have the in-servicing that they need to make sure they can deliver the Western protocol. Thank you.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Colchester North, with about four minutes remaining in this round.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you for the answer. The question that I have in my mind is, if we are going to, as the minister said, do our professional development over the summer (Interruption) Some of it will be done over the summer.

 

There was also a comment that PD's ongoing, and I guess everybody knows PD is ongoing. My question is, what materials will the teachers have in their hands during the professional development so that they are ready to hit the ground in September?

 

MS. JENNEX: I want to say that there has been an awful lot of planning been done in the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, and I know that the department staff is very excited about this new approach. I know there has been a desire for many of the folks in the department to move in this direction.

 

I do know that the department purchased some of the learning resources for Primary to 2 already so that teachers would be able to have access and also for the staff to be working with the department. Some of it has already been purchased in the previous year so that they have the resources. The resources will be in hand for teachers as they start Primary, 1, 2 and 3 and also Grade 10.

 

I cannot even begin to tell you how much planning has been done. This has been a very well thought out, very well planned shift to make sure that our students have the opportunity to have our new math program delivered in a timely way, starting in September, and then we will continue to roll it out over the next three years.

 

I really appreciate the concern of the member opposite because as a former teacher/administrator and a teacher myself, I know that there's nothing worse than having professional development, someone talking to you. You need to have your hands on it. You need to work with it yourself. You need to pose problems back and forth with your colleagues and if you have in-servicing where someone is talking to you - we call it barking at you - it's not going to mean anything.

 

The in-servicing that teachers will have, will definitely be interactive with the materials that they need so that they will be able to deliver the program and will also be supported throughout the year as we move through this new Western protocol. Thank you.

 

MS. CASEY: The professional development, as we know, is critical for teachers so that they can be confident when they hit the ground in the classrooms in September. My question then would be, how are we going to deliver the professional development and to how many teachers over the summer?

MS. JENNEX: The answer is, because every board has been doing their work and their planning and each board will be responsible for the delivery of the professional development, each of the regions that the school boards represent. Teachers are not going to be coming into Halifax for in-servicing. This is very regional professional development and it will be managed by the school boards.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Colchester North with nine seconds.

 

MS. CASEY: How many teachers?

 

MS. JENNEX: As many teachers as the boards feel will be teaching Primary 1 and 2 and Grade 10, those teachers they feel will be identified. We've gone out with our targets early so they are able to do their staffing and they'll be able to identify how many. I know each of the boards will be doing a very fine job at that. Thank you.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The time allotted for this round has expired. I wonder if the minister needs a break before we continue on - a short break?

 

MS. JENNEX: Five minutes, that's all.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will recess for five minutes and we will start back with the member for Cape Breton North. We are now in recess.

 

[7:19 p.m. The committee recessed.]

 

[7:24 p.m. The committee reconvened.]

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Order please. The time is now 7:24 p.m.

 

The honourable member for Cape Breton North.

 

MR. EDDIE ORRELL: I'd like to thank the minister and Dr. Lowe and Mr. Dunn for being here this evening.

 

I'm going to start where the member opposite left off on the $3.7 million for the 40 new hires, 25 new program support staff and 15 teacher assistants. The answer I heard was an average of $70,000 for the 25 new program support staff and $35,000 for the teacher assistants' average salary. That adds up to about $2.2 million. There's $1.5 million missing there. You said that money would be all people money. Where's the other $1.5 million?

 

MS. JENNEX: Thank you very much for the question. I'm going to go over this very carefully. It is all people money. That $3.7 million is for people resources that are going to go in our system. That $3.7 million is going into the dedicated funding, which is $141 million that is dedicated funding for our students with significant needs; this is how it has been calculated. For an educational assistant or a T.A., it's approximately $35,000 plus benefits. I think that's the average that they use for the calculation. In terms of the school psychologist/speech pathologist, what they used was a TC-7 - I don't know what year they used, but TC-7 - the average salary they used was $70,000 plus benefits.

 

Now the rest of that money - you did add that up - the rest of that money is all part of the funding formula because our funding formula that we used this year is based on the declining enrollment of 2,316 students. I might talk a bit later, if asked, around the formula and how this formula actually benefits our school boards and the declining enrollment. These are new positions that will be able to be hired, plus this money is going to be used to maintain the existing positions that normally would not be funded because of the declining enrollment; there's your other piece of that $3.7 million. Because they are students, we do our funding based on how many students are in the school system. They wouldn't be funded because of a decline of 2,316 students.

 

That maintains what we have, even though the enrollment has declined, and in that calculation of the new ones, we used the TC-7 on the wage grid to run the formulas - I'm going to look over just to make sure that I clarified that. The other big piece is, because of declining enrollment, positions wouldn't have been maintained because of the loss of 2,316 students out of our system. Maybe further on in the evening, or whenever my time is up, I can explain how we do run the formula that actually benefits our school boards.

 

MR. ORRELL: The people who normally would not be funded because of the loss - I think the number was given, and I wrote it down here but I don't know what I did with it, oh, okay - it's one in 1,800 students in the formula for psychologists. You've got $1.5 million, because of declining enrollment of 2,300 that should only be 2 psychologists. Am I correct in assuming that, or am I wrong in assuming that? If you're using one for every 1,700 students or 1,800 students, how many psychologists would we have not been able to keep if this wasn't added to the budget this year? How many people would have been let go psychologist-wise, or T.A.s, if that wasn't added to our budget this year?

 

MS. JENNEX: That's a really important question. Every school board is a little bit different. Every school board gets their envelope based on the Hogg model, which bases how many students they have in their system. In terms of how many that protects or how many that keeps in, it would be different in different school boards. Halifax Regional School Board is our largest school board and, as you probably know, they still have declining enrollment. The only board in the province of Nova Scotia that has increased enrollment is CSAP. In the whole province, only one school board has increased in enrollment - our French school board.

 

Every other school board in the Province of Nova Scotia has been experiencing declining enrolment, even though it didn't look like it in September when some of our schools were busting at the seams in our early grades, when we implemented the class cap. The question that you're asking is how many, and I don't know because it would be different in each one of the boards. But this is the message I want you to get from this budget - it's protecting the people we have in our system already that could have very easily been lost because of declining enrolment. We're maintaining that and funding that and, on top of that, giving the opportunity for school boards to bring in more school psychologists and more speech pathologists.

 

Where will the speech pathologists be and where will the school psychologists be will be based on each of the boards needs and on their numbers - I don't know exactly where but the boards will know based on their population, on how they do that. I hope that I clarified that I can't really answer at this point where they are and how many there are. I could at some point, this evening or tomorrow, find out from the school boards exactly how many there are.

 

I have to be very clear though that the school psychologists, speech pathologists, those are easy but the program specialists have different names so sometimes they're called an autism specialist and severe learning disability coordinators - they have different names but it's a program specialist and we have some people in our system that have some really key specialities, especially with learning disabilities and with autism. So we're going to make sure that they are maintained within our system and bring more people in that have that expertise.

 

MR. ORRELL: How do we come upon the $1.5 million that we're going to save if we don't know how many people we're going to be saving? I guess that's my question. If there's $1.5 million left from what it says in the pamphlet here, and that $1.5 million is going to protect the people who would have normally lost their jobs because of declining enrolment, how many is that protecting? If there's $1.5 million and it's an average of $70,000 per year, that's 20 or 30 people, is it 30 or 40 people? I guess that's the question I'm asking - if it's $1.5 million, there has to be a number we're protecting.

 

MS. JENNEX: I just want to say that I feel really privileged to be able to stand here with Dr. Lowe and Frank Dunn. They have a handle on so many things in the department and if I ever need any support I know that they're there for me. Mr. Dunn was able to provide me the information that basically what the extra funding - over and above for the protection - is actually going to be maintaining is mostly TAs, educational assistants, in the system.

 

Based on that, we know that about 25 TAs will be retained within our system and also we changed the ratio so there will be 15 more positions. That's where that is, mostly with educational assistants. I think the member opposite knows that they're a valued component of our education system, our teaching assistants. They support our students in so many ways in our system, and support our whole system. That is basically who will be protected with this additional funding too, to benefit our students.

 

MR. ORRELL: I think you already answered this question earlier - where are these jobs going to be placed? Are they going to be placed for the most need or for the most population? I know the need in Cape Breton right now. I spoke with some of the Education and Early Childhood Development Department after the last session when I heard there was a wait list for psychology assessments and I was told that because of maternity leaves and the inability to get people in the area, the wait list was higher in Cape Breton than it was anywhere else. If it's on need, will we as Cape Bretoners and Cape Breton schools get more people because the need is there?

 

MS. JENNEX: Before I answer the question, I hope I don't lose the nugget of the question around the wait lists. I did investigate the claim that we had these extraordinary wait lists in Nova Scotia.

 

Our jurisdiction of Nova Scotia far exceeds many other areas in Canada in terms of a wait list. Last week you probably heard me talking about when you have an appointment you're on a list to see a specialist; you have to wait until another person is served before you get your turn. I found out that the average wait time for a student to get a school psychologist or a speech pathologist is six to nine months. There is a bit of a wait in terms of getting that support but there's always someone being served because that is one reason why we're going to add some more support. When you talk about wait lists - and 2,000 people, I heard, were on a wait list - there might be 2,000 students across the province but they are being served within the year.

 

You did bring up maternity leave. I do know that school psychologists and speech pathologists are professions where it would not be easy to find a substitute and so I know there might have been some extraordinary demands if you weren't able to find someone to fill that gap.

 

I just wanted to clarify that in Nova Scotia, students are being seen within a six to nine month time period. We're far exceeding that. The reality of it is it takes time. A school psychologist - I can speak from experience - when you meet with the school psychologist and a child does get psychological assessment, it's very time consuming. The psychologist works with that student sometimes for days. They don't take them for the full day but they'll come in and do an hour and then they sometimes do two hours and then there are the meetings with the parents and the meetings with the teachers.

 

One child - it's not like a doctor's appointment, an hour in and an hour out. It's the time to write the report and also the time you meet with the team back at the school. It's quite a time-consuming in that one student can take quite a significant amount of time, to do it right. They go through all the assessments that school psychologists do, to meet with the parents. Some students may not take as long, and some students might take a bit longer.

 

The question was (Interruption) A little bit rowdy over there, I guess - something dropped. The question was, where will they be hired? Because our funding formula is based on ratio, it will be based on population. That is where the positions will be.

 

MR. ORRELL: So it won't be where the most need is - it will be on population?

 

MS. JENNEX: I want to make a comment. We want to serve our students, and we want to make sure every student has the opportunity to be successful. I've met every board across the board and every board has the same situation in terms of, they feel they have the greatest need. So I can't answer in terms of "greatest need". Wherever a child is in the province and if they need support, that's where the greatest need is - that class and that child. I don't know if I can speak to geographical considerations, in terms of the greatest needs. It can change from one year to the next. I know as a teacher, in my classroom, one day can change significantly by something that happens, either by an accident or another family moving in. The need is where the child is.

 

These ratios are based on the best research we have on how to serve our children. This works because it's based on the averages in terms of students in our system who would need help with speech pathology or would need a school psychologist. What we have done under this formula is provide more opportunities for students in our province who need school psychologists, need speech pathologists, need the services of teachers that have expertise in learning disabilities and/or autism - I'm thinking off the top of my head. There are probably other considerations we would have in our school system.

 

I really want to clarify that we have children in our school system who have significant needs. I know school boards are working very hard at addressing those needs. I'm very hopeful and optimistic that the increased envelope in funding that we're providing the boards is going to support the work they do in being able to provide the services that they need, so the children who need the services have every opportunity to be successful. If school boards are having significant difficulties meeting needs, then we do also have people within the department who have expertise that will go to school boards and where support is needed, we're going to make sure we can work together. We don't want children to fall through the cracks. We don't want to see gaps. We want to make sure that we're providing every opportunity for every student.

 

As the honourable member knows, I was just recently in your board and I have to say you have a very dedicated group of people to make sure that children are getting the services, the supports and the programming they need to be successful.

 

MR. ORRELL: I guess what I am hearing is, it's on average but if the need is greater in Yarmouth or Cape Breton we will dedicate extra funding to those boards to make sure that happens? I believe that's what I just heard. It's on one to so many students but if the need is there - the need is where the child is. So if Yarmouth or Cape Breton has longer than a six-month to nine-month wait for psychologists, we will dedicate more funding to those boards to allow that to get to that average?

 

MS. JENNEX: I hope that you heard me - I'm very hopeful and optimistic that this envelope of dedicated funding that's going out to our boards is going to support our students who have significant needs. I know that some school boards will probably spend more than the envelope. I don't know if the member opposite was in the Chamber when I made a comment that every student in our province is funded. Everybody in our system is funded through our funding formula. This dedicated funding, the $141 million for special education, is dedicated funding over and above so our students in our system have the funding attached to them, I know it's the way that we do the funding, and this is funding over and above that.

 

Your question to me was that your board would get more funding if you recognized the dedicated need. I answered we have people within our department that will support and will look at what the board needs. I can't say. I can never answer a question on providing more funding. Everything that we do goes through the Treasury Board. As you know, when we saw a significant need this year with overcrowded classrooms with Primary - Grade 3, it was not an automatic that we put in 73 teachers to take that pressure out.

 

What I had to do was, I had to go to Treasury Board and I had to make an ask. For every amount of money at Treasury Board, we had to look at where that impacts somewhere else. There's only so much funding and so the Treasury Board recognized this was an area that they would support but that meant that other decisions had to be made in other budgets in departments to make sure we had that dedicated funding for our students.

 

The question is would we be providing any more money? My answer was if we have an area in the province where teachers, a school board, and an administrator feel we have a problem, we have people within our department who have expertise in learning disabilities especially with autism. We have some really key people who have a really good understanding of ways that you can support students. We would work with the school board to see what was needed.

 

If there were something that came up in terms of a student who needed something in particular, I would take that under advisement. I will tell you right now - and my colleagues here on this side of the House know - if our students need something and we can affect the change that is needed and work with the Treasury Board, I will do that. I would first want to work to make sure that, within the envelope of funding that we have, we are able to support our students and this year we have protected boards with our funding. I know the Cape Breton Regional School Boards funding would have decreased by $9 million, based on declining enrollment.

 

I'm going to tell you it breaks my heart to see a board lose - I think that you have lost half of the students from your area over the last number of years, so you have significant challenges in your system. You have schools with fewer and fewer students each and every year. We recognize that if we had funded you, based on your enrollment - I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, that I used that word "you" - if we had funded the honourable member's school board based on declining enrollment, the board would have been hit with a $9 million plus reduction. So what we did is protect it at 1.5. Everyone is asking, well how did you get to the 1.5? Why was that cap put in place, a 1.5 cap? Working with the gentlemen sitting here with me and also other folks in the department, we worked to make sure that you would not be losing any of your permanent teachers. We are protecting the teachers in the system. That funding will ensure the teachers, that's where that 1.5 cap is.

In your school board, the adjustment based on the reduction was $9,239,100 and we subsidized that by over $7 million so the reduction to the board is $2 million. That is one part of it, the other part of it is that you are actually funded it based on - a lot of people don't understand this part but this is the cool part - you're based on last year's numbers. So it was actually last year that we lost 2,316 students. There is always a year lag in the funding formula, which benefits the school board. I think I explained that properly, it gives you more flexibility. It's a year lag in terms of the numbers that we fund, which gives the school boards flexibility. Cape Breton Victoria School Board, even though they are seeing a reduction, they have been protected by having it capped at 1.5 because they would have lost over $7 million based on, as I say, the heart breaking reality of declining enrollment in Cape Breton Regional Victoria School Board.

 

MR. ORRELL: What I'm trying to clarify - and I'll make this clear as I possibly can - you're hiring 25 new program support staff. They are going to go, as you said, where the need is most - where the child is. If Yarmouth Regional School Board has a wait list of - well six to nine months is your average, so if they have a 10 or 12 or 14 month average, will one of those go to that board as extra? No more new funding - you already announced new funding in the budget now. Will you dedicate that funding to go to one those boards where it is needed the most? Just a yes or no is fine.

 

MS. JENNEX: What I was making a comment on was not in where the department is going to put people or where school boards are going to hire. Mine is on where the greatest need is, is in every classroom where the child is having the greatest need. I can't make a comment if Cape Breton-Victoria has the greatest need or if Tri-County has the greatest need or Halifax, because where a child needs support that's where the great need is. It's very individual. I did not make a comment - it was a philosophical comment. Each and every child in our system, who has a significant need, is important. I can't say, standing here, where the greatest need is in the province. It's so individualized and can change day to day in any classroom or in any school.

 

We are basing our increased money in the envelope for special education based on lowering the ratios so we can provide more supports within our school system and protect the people who are in our school system at the present time, based on the fact that declining enrollment, the numbers that we are using in the reduction is 2,316 fewer students. I saw the numbers for the Cape Breton-Victoria Regional School Board and they're quite significant in terms of the decrease in enrollment year over year. We are protecting your board, but I also want to say, though, if your board is having significant difficulty, the department is more than willing to go up and work with the program specialist in the department to work forward toward a plan to see what we can do.

 

There are many things that you can do when you have children who have significant needs. We want them in the classroom sitting alongside their peers; I think that's paramount, that's very important. Through the SchoolsPlus sites that we have in the province, we are able to provide programming and other things that we can do in the school system. We can look at other things that we can do in terms of peer grouping. If the board is having any difficulty, I would want them to work with the department but, as I said, I'm quite tenacious and if we have significant problems and it's something that I need to move forward with, I will be more than willing to do that. I will be an advocate where I need to be an advocate for students. We first have to make sure that we're providing the opportunity for the school board, the teachers, and the families to work to benefit students.

 

Throwing more and more resources is not always the answer; it can be a different way of doing things. The member probably knows that I am a trained Special Education teacher; one of my degrees is in Special Education, and there is more than one model to serve our students. I would want to make sure that we had the opportunity to work together as a team, and especially the family has a key component, and the student too, in ways that we can support students.

 

The overall mandate that we have is for every child to be successful. Now, where children have such significant need, the term "success" can be different. But if a child comes to school and they feel that they're accepted and cared for at school, and they are with their peer group, then I think that we've come a long way to making that child be successful in how they feel about themselves. The overall goal is to make children be independent, be successful and to provide opportunities for every student in our schools.

 

To the member opposite, I will do everything I can to make sure that your board has the supports that it needs, if they need help with programming. We can work together to make sure that your students, our students - these are all our children - have the opportunities that they need.

 

MR. ORRELL: That's good to hear that if the board does need more resources or more support that they will get that.

 

Let me change gears a little bit now. I think earlier in your opening statement, you said they were going to hire 170 more new teachers this year, if the budget allows through retirements and attrition. If you don't get the numbers of retirements, your budget is going to be impacted more because I assume the higher, longer tenured teachers would be paid a lot more money, so that would directly impact the amount of new hires you could have. If we're going to need 170 new hires or 170 teachers, if we don't get the retirements and attrition part of it, will there be more money allotted for that to allow that to happen?

 

MS. JENNEX: As you know, this is our budget and this is based on our best information. We know there is a trend in terms of when teachers are at a certain point in their career - sometimes at a certain point in their age - that they retire. In every system there are people who choose to leave teaching for one reason or another. The numbers are based on that overall trend or pattern of people leaving a system and retiring.

 

I can't speculate - will teachers retire or not? It's up to the teacher if they want to do that, but there might be the opportunity, based on retirements, that more teachers would be hired under this formula, or might not. I can't speculate. This is an estimate. This is based on our projection that it looks as if this many teachers will be leaving the system.

 

My colleague here says that when we first made this comment that no permanent teachers would lose their job, that we'd be able to balance the system through retirement and attrition. We made that comment a couple of years ago, and we've been on target. We have been very lucky in terms of base trends in that it has been working. We did say that no permanent teacher would lose their job and that we're going to be basing it over time.

 

I keep hearing that we've lost so many teachers - the teachers who have left our system over the last couple of years have retired, but we have hired new teachers in different areas to make sure that our students are protected. We have the lowest class sizes now in the province than in generations. We have the highest funding per child in the province. Under this budget we have the lowest student-to-teacher ratio ever in the province.

 

So this budget is not only - it's not a status quo budget. This is a budget that is providing the opportunity for children to be in smaller class sizes. It's providing the opportunity for more supports to be in our schools. We have the highest per student funding ever, and we have the lowest student-to-teacher ratio ever in the province.

 

Now, I know that people don't like to talk ratios, and the lowest student-teacher ratio, and they talk about what it looks like in their school. It is one to 12.9, but we can do a calculation that you take out the music teacher, the physical education teacher, and you take out the specialists who are included in that ratio, and the ratio, I think it goes to one-to-14? Yes. It goes to one-to-14. So in our system we have a ratio across our province for every 14 students, there is a classroom teacher. I know it looks different in different parts of the province, but that's why we've also introduced the class cap for primary to Grade 3 so that we can keep the class sizes low in those areas of significant growth. Our suburban areas do have significant growth, so I just wanted to clarify that. Thank you.

 

MR. ORRELL: Just in the hires - and I'll go back to the student to teacher ratio in a minute - the 73 that we hired last year in late September, early October, who were hired and would be, I guess, for lack of a better term, terminated in July of this year, will those 73 people be rehired this year because of the year of experience they have already?

MS. JENNEX: Thank you very much. I think that the question you are asking is in terms of if you have a certain amount of experience do you get, like, recall? Some of those 73 teacher who were hired, I can't answer if they will be hired back or not, or rehired, because that is a question that is based on the collective agreement and seniority and how many terms you've had.

 

I don't know each of the specific histories of the teachers but I will say I was at a community breakfast in Lockhartville. I was sitting next to a young woman and I asked her, of course, what are you doing? She was with her parents and she said, well actually, I'm one of those ones who was hired in. She had worked as a substitute, and so she's getting experience in working in a school. She is looking forward to the opportunity of applying for any of the positions that are going to be open. But I can't answer if those 73 - this formula now has included the class cap in the formula, so we won't see any of those big bulges that we had at the first of the year. Based on retirement and attrition, and all the facts that we have, it looks as if there are 170 opportunities for teachers to move into tenure track.

 

MR. ORRELL: I guess the most logical question is, when will we know how many of these 170 teachers you may need and will these new teachers you're going to hire know if they're going to be hired before the school year starts? If not, we're going to lose, probably, some valuable teachers who may take jobs in other parts of the country or other parts of the world. So will we know before the school year starts or before people start to look at other jobs, if these teachers will be necessary or not?

 

MS. JENNEX: One of the really nice things about this budget - there are no surprises in terms of the education budget. I met with the school board chairs and superintendents in February and because I met with them in February and gave them their target number, they're able to do the planning that they needed. Based on them having their target early and working through their budget, there should be no surprises in terms of staffing. One of the boards told me that they had already done their staffing.

 

There are trends in education. We know that in Halifax it's going to be a little bit more difficult in the suburban areas. I think there is going to be a lot of movement over the summer. The school boards are doing their staffing; they're doing it now. Can I say if all of the teachers who were hired - those 73 - will be re-hired? I don't know because we are also working on the fact that it's based on a ratio. We have lower ratios than ever before but we are still dealing with declining enrollment. I know the school boards are not going to be hiring teachers where they're not needed so based on the ratios, based on the information that school boards have - they're working through their staffing right now. All teachers will know their - I know under the collective agreement there are many windows of time that they have to - at one point, teachers have the opportunity.

 

This is another piece about teachers is that permanent teachers have the opportunity to leave the position that they're in to take another opportunity, so within the system there's some shuffling around. One of the new teachers that was hired - maybe in Primary in one school - finds that the position, even if it's opened up next year, has been taken by another teacher because permanent teachers have the opportunity of mobility within our school board. I always like the term "by the time the dust settles" - that's usually the first part of the summer so young teachers would know. There's usually hiring that sometimes happens over the summer because some people decline the opportunity to work.

 

There will be no surprises. Teachers will know, based on the targets, at a certain point within the school year. We all get - I say "we" - I'm not one of them anymore, but there's a certain time that in your mailbox you'll go in and it gives you your teaching assignment. By May all teachers know where their assignment is for the next year, so all teachers in the system will know.

 

MR. ORRELL: You brought up the student-to-teacher ratio as 1-to-14 and you said that included taking out music and physical education teachers. Does that take out all your administration as well - principals and vice-principals and all that goes with that - or is it just the actual people, if 1 to 14 students actually have a teacher standing in front of them? I guess that's my biggest question?

 

MS. JENNEX: It's good to clarify. When we're doing our ratios for teachers to students, it's a 12.9 student-to-teacher ratio. When you do the classroom teacher, that takes out your principal, your vice-principal - some vice-principals are also teachers; they can have a teaching position too. It takes out your music teachers because they're specialists and physical education and resource, that's the other key one. Am I missing any that get taken out of that formula? Music, physical education, resource and your administrators are taken out of that. Then we do the calculation based on the classroom. They write speeches for me every once in a while that say, "and the teacher in front of the classroom". Well I have yet to go into a classroom in Nova Scotia, over the last couple of years and when I was teaching, myself, where you find a teacher in front of the classroom. You have to look around the room to find the teacher because they're usually kneeling by someone or sitting with a group of students. It's hard to find the teacher in the classroom because teaching is now not in front of the classroom lecturing, for the most part. For some of the things you would see that.

 

So the ratio of classroom teachers to students, this year, was 14.7 - that's the classroom teacher in the Province of Nova Scotia. In 2000, the very first of the century, the ratio was 18. We're now down to 14.7. I don't have them for this year. This takes me to 2013. (Interruption) It's always good to have experts with us. We really don't know that ratio until the year starts. We need to get that information from the school boards, and that's fair.

 

I have a chart that shows our ratio of teacher to students. What I'm going to do is I'm going to ask for this to be photocopied and then I can table that so that the member can see it. You can see how our ratio of classroom teachers to students has been on a steady decline and so we'll see, in September, what our numbers are. I hope I've explained that well - that we have taken out all those specialists. This is Mrs. Smith with your son or daughter in the classroom.

 

MR. ORRELL: I'll ask a question and I don't need an answer now. I wonder if I could just get the numbers tabled at a later date. Could either the board or the department get me the number of actual teachers, administrators, music teachers that are in the province - people who would be taken out of the formula compared to the number of students, and just have the number of students that are in the province and the number of teachers that we have, minus the people who are the administration and just table it - the classroom teachers compared to the administrators, music, physical ed. and so on that aren't included in that formula so I could just look at a number. I guess that's the biggest thing.

 

The question I want to ask is, I know the minister's department took on the Early Years programs. How much was added to your budget by taking on that program and will that money be used all for Early Years programs or could it be transferred around a little bit if necessary?

 

MS. JENNEX: That's a thoughtful question. This year, in this budget, we've allocated $1.2 million for our Early Years initiative. On Wednesday, we will be giving a comprehensive overview of what that looks like, but the budget at this point of $1.2 million is including the full time equivalents that will be hired and operational costs associated. I think the biggest question is, if the money is in for Early Years, can it be used in other areas? No - it's dedicated funding for those particular initiatives that we're working on.

 

I think that a lot of people don't know that there are many initiatives, programs and things that happen across the province around many departments. It's not just education that takes care of children, as you know. The Department of Justice has a stake in what our young people are doing. Of course, the Department of Community Services - that's the biggest shift in the early years. There are many departments - especially the Department of Health and Wellness - have a stake in making sure that our youngest have every benefit and opportunities. There will be many different departments working together to integrate the system over at the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. There are over 200 programs that are already happening across the province for our youngest.

 

So the question is, the money for Early Years, can it be used in the - for the want of a better term 'public school system'? No, that's dedicated money based on the projects that we have and the integration as we move forward, but on Wednesday, hopefully you'll be part of listening to what we're planning to do. I'm pretty excited about it and I know that many people are looking forward to seeing what's going to be happening, but no, that money is for our early years initiatives and the rest is for our children from Primary to Grade 12.

 

MR. ORRELL: I believe I heard earlier that the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development is going to cover the cost of the wage increases for teachers this year. Has there been any consideration of what the inflationary costs might do to boards and if that would be a consideration to help with the inflationary costs for the boards?

 

MS. JENNEX: I know it has made it harder to say. I feel like Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations all over again. Your question was, school boards have to absorb inflationary costs. That's something that we've asked all of our departments to do. The funding formula was designed to give flexibility for school boards so we are actually funding one year delay, in terms of our numbers, which gives flexibility, and because of the Hogg formula we looked very carefully at what school boards need. The school boards worked together with Frank Dunn and Doug Stewart, over 28 meetings back and forth, to make sure that the formula that we move to was going to be fair and equitable.

 

All of those costs that school boards have are in the formula. The other thing we did in terms of flexibility, we said you've got your envelope of money, other than your $141 for special education funding - that's dedicated, you can't touch that. Boards have the flexibility of moving money around in their budget to be able to meet the needs.

 

The other thing in terms of inflationary costs - we also are looking at many of our projects in schools to create efficiencies within the school itself. New windows, new doors, and extra insulation and redesign of some things can really save on heating costs. I get letters about that all the time, actually, about some schools being too warm. Parents write in and they say the school is a bit too warm so we're looking at that.

 

The other thing that we're doing to help school boards is the shared services initiative and the millions of dollars that will be saved by doing that shared service; that money goes back to the school boards. It's not money that we're clawing back and it's not money that we're saying you have to use it for this.

 

So within the Hogg formula, we've provided the flexibility on how we've rolled it out and provided some initiatives that are going to help school boards save money so they should be able to, with the flexibility, cover their inflationary costs. As you know, education is about people and so the bulk of our cost is for people and in any wage settlement we said that we would be taking the full cost of that from the department and it is not going to be reflected in their budgets in any way, shape or form.

 

MR. ORRELL: Let's get into the actual budget estimates now, if I could. Senior management expenses were almost $100,000 over from the estimate of last year, yet the estimate for this year is coming in lower than last year. What changes are going to influence this budget decision?

 

MS. JENNEX: I have to tell you you're very astute in finding this and this is a very easy one to explain. We brought someone into the department to work on a restructuring of the department. There have been many changes in the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development - as you know, it used to be the Department of Education and Advanced Education. Advanced Education moved over to LAE and also we're moving the early years over. There are some changes to who was in the department. There was a person hired in the department and they will be leaving that position at the end of the project so that is where the difference is.

 

MR. ORRELL: There are no permanent positions being cut from senior management to meet this estimate, it's one that you hired as a temporary position?

 

MR. JENNEX: In the senior management in the office there are no reductions of any of our senior management. The lead person who came in - that is a recoverable cost so it shows in there in the forecast. It was Mr. Rick Alexander who worked in the department for the last while. That's why the forecast and estimate is different. There have been no changes in terms of our senior management in the department other than what I just explained in terms of having a lead person in the department to do the restructuring work. I don't want to say restructuring but reorganization.

 

MR. ORRELL: In your opening or in one of the questions answered to the honourable member opposite here, you said the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development has decreased its staff by 19 full-time equivalents. Now you are saying no one has been cut from senior management so where are those 19 people being cut from? I think it's on Page 1.14.

 

MS. JENNEX: As you know, we have done a back-to-balance approach to all of our departments in government; the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development is no different. We've asked our boards to manage with reductions, and the same thing has happened in the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. In the year 2011-12 we had a reduction of 9.12 and I can name off what those positions are if the member opposite wants me to. We had 9.12 in terms of reduction. In this year we had the reduction of 6 and there will be a reduction of 4.

 

Overall, we had a reduction of 19.12 in the Department of Education and now Early Childhood Development. In terms of the senior management, there are very few in the senior management line and I'm looking at two of them sitting right here next to me and I'm not losing them.

 

MR. ORRELL: Of the overspending against estimates last year, the office of the deputy minister was overspent by about $110,000. I wonder if you could give me what events or issues would have caused this overspending.

 

MS. JENNEX: The office of the deputy minister, when you made that comment - that is Mr. Rick Alexander's position. He's in an executive lead position and that's a recoverable. That is exactly what I mentioned in terms of the overall, that is the position and that is the reason for that.

 

You mentioned the term over budget; it's because of bringing in Mr. Alexander and his expertise to support the department through reorganization. Thank you.

 

MR. ORRELL: So that's where the extra position came from this year. In 7.5 under Corporate Policy, there are an additional two full-time equivalents to be added to the current staff. What are the positions that are being added?

 

MS. JENNEX: Comparing the forecast to the estimate, there has only been one new position that has been added. The other one was based on a maternity situation. The one new position that's added in our numbers - and it's always nice to be able to clarify that - that is the position that is funded from the CMEC, the Council Ministers of Education Canada. That position has been added but it's a recoverable. It's funded by CMEC.

 

MR. ORRELL: Could you explain to me what you mean by the maternity position being there? Is the person on maternity not still part of the staff, is it a lost position?

 

MS. JENNEX: We have our estimate which was 20, the forecast - when we took a snapshot of the department, we were down by a position and that was because the person was not in the position due to maternity, so the person wasn't there. That's the difference between the estimate and the forecast.

 

Our estimate for the next year is that there has been a position added but it's a position that's been added in our numbers but it's a recoverable from the Council of Ministers of Education Canada. When they took a snapshot of who was in the position, the person wasn't there because we didn't do an infill. The extra position that has been hired is a person who has been brought in, works for the department but funded by the Council of Ministers of Education Canada.

 

MR. ORRELL: I guess the obvious question is going to be - if the person went on maternity leave and not funded, the department didn't go under, it survived, so it worked with 19 people. In the budget estimate you are going back to the 20. If you could do the job with 19, why are we going back up to 20? I guess that's the biggest question.

 

MS. JENNEX: You know what? I am going to (Interruption) the forecast was based on - I think there was more than just the one position in terms of the maternity. The extra person in the numbers is based on a recoverable from CMEC and then it's a combination of other factors to make the department work appropriately so there has really only been one position added from estimate to estimate. When they did that snapshot in the forecast, we were down, but we are back to where the department was with the recoverable position.

 

I don't know if I answered that to your satisfaction, but there's always a story behind the numbers and those numbers are people working in the department on behalf of our students.

 

MR. ORRELL: I'll ask it real quick. I guess if we can do the job with 19, why do we need 20? If the person was off on maternity leave and the job was done, not that I advocate for anybody on maternity leave, but if we can do the job with 19, why are we budgeting for 20?

 

MS. JENNEX: I want to say that the people in the department - and I know that every person in the Chamber knows this - that everybody in the Department of Education c works hard on behalf of our students. There have been many challenges that we've been dealing with within the department and everybody in the department has been absolutely stellar. To do the job effectively, to benefit our students, to support the people in positions that are sometimes pulled away, we need those staff to operate the department effectively, efficiently, and appropriately on behalf of our students.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The time for this portion has expired.

 

The honourable member for Colchester North.

 

HON. KAREN CASEY: For the benefit of the minister and staff, I'm referring to sheet Balance Budget, Kids and Learning First, which came out with the budget.

 

If you go to the middle section of that, Helping Children In The Early Years, the second bullet talks about expanding the ability of teachers to assess the developmental health of their students in critical areas. It is expanding so my question would be, what is the current budget for that? I know it's expanding by $70,000 but what is the budget prior to the expansion?

 

MS. JENNEX: Now this one is going to be a little bit - if you can just bear with me - it's EIBI - the Early Intervention Behavioural Index, I think I've got the acronym right. Those of us who have been in positions that work with kids, you just use the EIBI and when I say that, the honourable member knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

We have added in our budget the $70,000 because every Primary teacher in the province will be assessing the developmental needs. I mentioned in the speech that we're going to be going in and doing the EIBI. Now over the last couple of years some school boards have been doing it, some school boards haven't, but it has been funded by the Department of Health and Wellness. Now, through this integration, we'll be bringing it in to make sure that every one of the school boards and every student in the province - not just some areas in the province - every student will be going through the EIBI with the Primary teachers.

 

In terms of finding out how much it costs this year, I think what we're going to have to do is we're going to have to work with our colleagues to see. It's going to be a year of integration and a little bit hard to answer definitively on some of the things because we're bringing in existing programs and the budget line will not be following, in terms of this budget. We're just doing the beginning stages of this, but in terms of this September, every Primary teacher will be using that tool with every one of the students. (Interruption) Did I say that wrong? Now wait a minute here, so it's EDI. Okay, there are so many acronyms in government that we need to have a dictionary - it's Early Development Index. I knew it didn't sound right, thank you. It's the EDI that we're going to be doing and I apologize for that error. Every Primary teacher will be able to use that tool and we're in the beginning stages of that integration. Thank you.

 

MS. CASEY: I guess my question would be, was there ever a budget line for that from the Department of Education, or has it always been totally funded by Health and Wellness?

MS. JENNEX: I just want to echo what the honourable member said, that it's correct. We have not had that budget line in the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development; it's from the Department of Health and Wellness.

 

MS. CASEY: With that particular instrument, you say it will be in all boards. Are boards putting some of their own dollars into that currently or has it been totally funded by Health and Wellness?

 

MS. JENNEX: We are a little bit unclear on this. My colleagues feel that it has been funded by Health and Wellness but it's not a definitive answer. Since this is an area where I have a little bit of a question on the answer, we will take the time to find out exactly if school boards did contribute to the funding. I'm not 100 per cent sure on that but it is something, it is an initiative from the Department of Health and Wellness. Thank you.

 

MS. CASEY: To the minister, do we know what that $70,000 that is there in the budget line will be used for - and along with, I am assuming - funding from Health and Wellness? Do we have anything specific that that $70,000 is targeted toward?

 

MS. JENNEX: I'll be able to provide much more clarity on this on Wednesday. The $70,000 is to do with professional development for Primary teachers so that they can use the EDI appropriately, because they would definitely need some training. I've seen the EDI used by a study group, but I do not know exactly what it looks like and what it involves, so the $70,000 is for professional development for the Primary teacher so that they can utilize that appropriately.

 

MS. CASEY: With the expansion and the $70,000 and the department starting to provide some of the funding for that, can you tell me - if it's going to be in all boards, how many boards is it currently in now?

 

MS. JENNEX: As I said, I will bring more clarity to this because we're in the process of a shift in integration and this is an area where I cannot answer definitively. Therefore, I will ask the honourable member for her indulgence. Maybe tomorrow we'll be able to provide that information. This will probably all be explained by Wednesday morning too, so thank you.

 

MS. CASEY: I would appreciate that information when you have it. If we can continue it down on that same page and we're talking about new teachers in the classroom, can you tell me - I know it's an estimate - how many teachers we expect will retire this year?

 

MS. JENNEX: From our information, we have 321 teachers who could retire - who we expect to retire - that's the number.

 

MS. CASEY: If I look at this, it seems to me that those 321 will be retiring and we will be hiring 170 teachers into the system - adding 170 to replace some of those who are retiring. Am I correct on that?

 

MS. JENNEX: Absolutely. We have forecast about 321 will leave through retirement, but we also have other teachers who also might leave for other reasons. Based on our declining enrollment, making sure that we have provided enough funding for every board and protecting boards at a cap of $1.5 million so no permanent teacher will lose their job, we know that the forecast that we have is that we will have approximately a 1-to-13 ratio, based on these numbers. You are absolutely correct. We'll have teachers leaving and there are opportunities for teachers to be hired, but there will be a loss of numbers of positions in the province, numbers - not of teaching positions, but people will be leaving and there won't be a classroom in the Fall, based on declining enrollment.

 

MS. CASEY: Can you tell us how many teachers we expect to lose due to declining enrollment?

 

MS. JENNEX: While my colleague is doing some - I notice he is using pen and paper so it's not mental math, he is doing some calculations here - it's based on the ratio and this budget was based on 2,316 students leaving our system. It's based on that number - 2,316 students. This budget was built with that because it's based on how many left the system last year. It's always done one year in arrears to give the school boards flexibility. It gives the school boards the flexibility and we've capped the reductions on a declining enrollment and funding at 1.5, especially for the Cape Breton area. They would have had such a huge loss to their system. This is transitional funding.

 

I think my colleague has the figure. Based on that, about 150 positions would be lost due to the declining enrollment.

 

MS. CASEY: It looks to me like approximately 150 teaching positions due to declining enrollment, and another 151 retiring and not being replaced. Would that math be correct?

 

MS. JENNEX: I guess I'm just going to try to explain this in terms of declining enrollment. Based on the declining enrollment and our funding formula, to make sure we are investing in our students, we have increased our per student funding. It's a rough estimate that about 150 teaching positions will not be in our system next year, based on declining enrollment.

 

MS. CASEY: I think I understand that. I just want to make sure I'm clear that initially we were talking about the number of retirees and that 170 of those would be replaced, which left about 151 teachers retiring and they would not be replaced. Is the 150 that we're losing - approximately 150 - due to declining enrollment, in addition to the 150 that will not be replaced due to retirement?

 

MS. JENNEX: This budget is based on - there are going to be teachers hired so we'll have - I'll round it up. Say if we have 320 teachers leaving our system based on retirements, there are now opportunities for approximately 170 teachers to have jobs. All along we've said that we are going to rebalance our system based on attrition and retirements. We've managed the staffing based on - because of the declining enrollment we've based it on retirements and attrition.

 

Based on the declining enrollment, it's about 150 positions. If 320 teachers leave, there are opportunities for other people to be hired into the system. There are only 150 people, so as we said all along, through retirement and attrition that is how we would balance out. We said there would be no teachers with permanent positions ever laid off and over the last couple of years that has been the case.

 

MS. CASEY: Just so I'm clear, we're saying there will be approximately 150 fewer teaching positions across the province next year?

 

MS. JENNEX: Based on the declining enrollment in our province, there will be fewer teachers, about 150 fewer positions, based on the numbers that we have, in terms of declining enrollment, which means that with this budget we will have the lowest teacher-student ratio ever in the province. We have the highest per student funding ever in this province. We've been able to balance this through retirement and attrition. No permanent teacher has lost their job but we are losing positions in the province, based on the fact that we do not have the students for them to teach.

 

MS. CASEY: If the minister and her staff could go to Page 7.2 of the estimates, if we look at the top at a summary of departmental expenses and just a quick scan of the programs and services that are listed there, it looks like there are reductions in all of those lines with the exception of Learning Resources, Credit Allocation, Teachers' Pension and Increases in Corporate Policy and Corporate Services. Could I ask the minister to explain what is happening with Corporate Policy and Corporate Services that the estimates have gone up?

 

MS. JENNEX: It took me a while to get my eyes in the right spot and I apologize for the delay. This is a situation, over the year the snapshot of the time period that the forecast was taken, due to unfilled positions the expenses were down but our estimate is to where we feel very strongly that that is how the department will operate effectively and efficiently, on behalf of our students.

 

MS. CASEY: To the minister, how many unfilled positions would cause that difference?

 

MS. JENNEX: Eight. We have the director of Financial Management, we've had a manager - I hope that people don't mind but we have a little joke that if Frank writes something, I probably won't be able to read it because we have very similar writing styles, I can read my own writing.

We have eight different positions: two Financial Services Office Manager of the Business Support Centre that were vacant during that time period. I'm just looking at - we have Administration, Financial Management, Educational Funding Accountability, the Nova Scotia Book Bureau, all of those had some variances due to some different reductions with vacancies.

 

MS. CASEY: To go back, the questions were specific to Corporate Policy and Corporate Services. So perhaps I could ask the question, how many staff in the division of Corporate Policy?

 

MS. JENNEX: So the question is, how many there are in Corporate Policy? We have 21 people working in Corporate Policy.

 

MS. CASEY: Would that be 21 FTEs currently and so they're showing in the actuals?

 

MS. JENNEX: We have 21 and the difference between estimates last year and estimates this year - there is a position that has been added in the department that is being funded by CMEC, the Council of Ministers of Education Canada. It's a position that is added into Corporate Policy but is a recoverable expense from CMEC. The difference between the forecast is a vacant position based on a number of factors, and the people are back in those positions, but the difference between 20 and 21 is a recoverable position that is working in the department that is recoverable from CMEC.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. The next question would be, how many FTEs in Corporate Services?

 

MS. JENNEX: As I see written here, there are 69.1 people working in Corporate Services.

 

MS. CASEY: Is that the actuals in 2012/13?

 

MS. JENNEX: I apologize I read the wrong number. Right now there are 61.9 but our estimate is 69 and I know I will wait until the next question to continue with my answer.

 

MS. CASEY: When the minister mentioned that there was a position that was funded by CMEC, would that be recorded at the bottom where it says staff funded by external agencies?

 

MS. JENNEX: The honorable member is correct that number is in the staff funded by external agencies.

 

MS. CASEY: Perhaps the minister could tell me what other positions are included in that line funded by external agencies.

MS. JENNEX: I do have a list of the recoverable FTE allotment for the department and they are mostly within the Acadian French Language Division so they would be covered under federal funding and also within our public school system, these would all be French Second Language, so I'm looking at directors, secretaries, and education officers. There is also Evaluation Services. Everything that I am seeing, other than the 100 per cent recovered from CMEC - everything else is under French Language.

 

MS. CASEY: To the minister, where would seconded positions show?

 

MS. JENNEX: They would show under regular FTEs.

 

MS. CASEY: Last year in estimates the same question was asked and the answer was that the staff funded by external agencies would include the secondments so I guess my question is, have the secondments now appeared on another budget line?

 

MS. JENNEX: Very interesting in that we have a person who is seconded, but it is funded externally through the French language. At this point we have three secondments, so that they're basically showing in the external, because they're seconded, but they're recoverable salaries.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. Just to clarify, I guess - are all of the people who have been seconded by the department shown under that particular line?

 

MS. JENNEX: As I said, there are three secondments within the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development at this time. The one secondment is covered under external funding, so they're not showing. The other two are in English programs, and they're showed under FTEs in English programs. That's my understanding. If we gave different information last year, I'd have to go back and clarify that, but three. And for the members in the Chamber, secondment means that we're borrowing from a school board. Thank you.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you, Madam Minister. I'm going to have to ask you to repeat that because there was a little noise to my left here and I really didn't hear the beginning of your answer. I'm sorry.

 

MS. JENNEX: Thank you very much. I'm going to change my answer I'm not going to change the essence of my answer, I'm going to change how I deliver my answer. (Interruption) Now, mind you, you have to be careful over there, now.

 

Each and every year in the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, there are different numbers of secondments, based on the need within the department. I know that I was fortunate enough to have a secondment, a number of years ago, but it was for a very short time and a very specific project. There is an ebb and flow of secondments. This year, there are three. One is funded externally; the other two are showing up as full-time equivalents in English programs.

MS. CASEY: Thank you. If I could go to the list, the timetable that was at the back of the Kids and Learning, the new and expanding actions, the timetable, the back of the Kids and Learning First document.

 

MS. JENNEX: Thank you very much. We don't have the Kids and Learning First plan. We have all sorts of other information around estimates, but we don't have a copy of the Kids and Learning First plan. So if it's possible, either one, I can answer the question without having it in front of me, or two, I could ask the honourable member to provide a photocopy and then we would both share the same document. I apologize, but we just don't have that information with us, and instead of delaying it, I think if we can do it that way? Thank you.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you, and we will get it copied. The questions were specific to the items, the actions that were identified in the 2013-14 column as New Actions. They were specific, first of all, to teacher standards, and I know there were some questions around that and some answers around that when we did estimates last year. The question is, where are we with that particular action, and is there a budget line somewhere to speak to that?

 

MS. JENNEX: I didn't need the document in front of me, but I know that the Page has taken it to do that. That was our target and in terms of our action there is a working group working on that at this time.

 

MS. CASEY: My question: Is there a budget line for that particular initiative and, if so, where might that be?

 

MS. JENNEX: There is no budget line associated with the Partners' Working Group, that is what we're calling it, it's a partners' working group aligning teacher qualifications with the learning needs of Nova Scotians. We have a robust group of people on the working group, but there is no budget line for that. We've covered that internally for the meetings - there are no extra costs associated with that.

 

We have people from all across the province and many of our stakeholders - I see the Nova Scotia Teachers Union, of course; the president of the Nova Scotia School Board Association; we have school board chairmen; we have school board superintendents; we have people from universities - I see that we have the Dean of Education from St. F.X.; we also have parent representation; vice-principals; and we have a mix of English first language and French first language people working on that working group. It's quite a large working group and they're continuing to do work. I know they just recently met and I haven't had a report back, but they met not too long ago on one of their scheduled meetings.

 

MS. CASEY: Is there a projected time for their work to be completed and report back to you?

 

MS. JENNEX: I just wanted to add that this group of people have been meeting monthly from September to now, which is - they met in March - and it is my understanding that they've made significant progress and they have a working report in its final stages of completion. It hasn't been passed in yet, but they're at that point in the stage of their work.

 

MS. CASEY: If the minister could go down and look at the next item that's there as a new action, which is Teacher Qualification and Courses Taught. What is the status of that because, again, that was discussed last year in estimates?

 

MS. JENNEX: We were very ambitious in our projections of taking a year to get to fruition, but this is still a work-in-progress and, as the honourable member will know, that to do things well and to do things right it sometimes takes a little bit of extra time. This is still a work-in-progress and it's very much front-burnered, but I'm not at the point to offer any projections in terms of the finish time for a report back for that.

 

MS. CASEY: I know the minister was able to give us the composition of the committee that's working on the teaching standards and I'm wondering, is the minister able to do that for the Teacher Qualification and Courses Taught committee?

 

MS. JENNEX: It is the same working group working on looking at the teaching assignments, so it's the same working group. They're still working through that, but I do know that there has been a tremendous amount of work done to date, but we're just not at the point now - it's not finished, it's still a work-in-progress.

 

MS. CASEY: If we could go to the next one, perhaps it is again the same committee but this is the Teacher Certification Upgrading Criteria. Is that a mandate of that committee or is there another committee looking at that?

 

MS. JENNEX: This one is going to come out of the working committee and then will move over to another department to work on. It's still a work-in-progress, it's been, as I said, people have been working monthly on this. This is a big project and we're not near completion at this point, but they're still working on a number of different initiatives within that working group.

 

MS. CASEY: I'm pleased to know that there is a group coming together working on those particular initiatives, and I think we talked last year about the importance of making sure that our teachers are teaching in the subject areas for which they have background and setting standards for teaching standards. So I'm pleased to see that there is work going on there.

 

The only other one as a new action in that timetable is the co-op education marketing plan, so perhaps the minister could update us on that and let us know what the budget is for that and where we might find it.

 

MS. JENNEX: The co-op education marketing plan is being developed by English Program Services; it's the Ann Blackwood department area of the department. They are working on that and that is being developed. There is no budget line for that, that's just part of the work that they're doing in that department.

 

MS. CASEY: The next document that I'm going to be looking at is the list of employees at the department - that would have been employees for 2012-13. First of all the question is a similar document last year had about 240-some names on it as salaried employees, this one has only 155, so perhaps somebody could explain the difference.

 

MS. JENNEX: You're going to find my answer quite unique - I have no idea. I didn't count these so I don't know if something is missing or if - I don't know. It's an " I don't know and we will have to do a little bit of looking to see where everyone is". The other thing is, we will also look at the document last year compared to this year just to see what the discrepancy is, because I'm finding 240 names odd for the department.

 

MS. CASEY: I was puzzled when I made the comparison as well, and I'm not sure. I don't know the explanation, but if the minister could find that - and I certainly have both documents if the minister wants that.

 

I will make the observation that when I was going through there was a name that I was looking for, I found it in the list for mileages, for travel claims, but not on the list for salaried employees. So if you could clarify that, I would appreciate it.

 

In that same document, if we could go to Page 122 under Grants and Contributions, and if we look over to several government departments - some of them small and some of them fairly large contributions - perhaps if we can go through those, and if the minister could explain the payment of $5,000 to the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

MS. JENNEX: I'm reading here from our document, Grants and Contributions, that the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage received $5,000 - it would be, I would imagine, what I consider a flow-through from the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development over to that department to support the African Diaspora Heritage Trail Conference. The honourable member knows - I think it was last year - that there was a conference and so that would be the Education and Early Childhood Development Department's contribution.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if other departments would have supported, because when many departments put a small amount in, it can add up quite significantly to support the conference, which was absolutely fabulous. So that's showing that, I don't have any other particulars other than that line item, but I do remember the conference.

 

MS. CASEY: To the Department of Community Services, right underneath that, $212,469 - what would that expenditure have covered?

MS. JENNEX: As you know, we have a SchoolsPlus model in 93 schools, I think, at the present time, and in those SchoolsPlus models we have many departments. I am seeing under the Department of Community Services, it looks like another situation where we're funding people who work for the Department of Community Services at the SchoolsPlus sites - and I say "probably" - I see program grants. Those would be things that are being used - it looks to me very clearly - to support the needs in the community and the students that would be in the SchoolsPlus sites. To find out very specifically, we would have to go back because, as you know, this is an overview which says SchoolsPlus funding and two FTEs and program grants - that's another flow-through because we would have used their services in the SchoolsPlus sites.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you, I appreciate the answer.

 

Down to the Department of Justice - $360,000 - and, again, what that expenditure supported.

 

MS. JENNEX: The member opposite will remember that we support our teachers who are in our correctional centres in the province for our young people. That would be the teachers in our correctional centres are being funded through the Department of Justice.

 

MS. CASEY: As a follow-up to that, would that be anything other than salaries or would that be straight salaries?

 

MS. JENNEX: Coming from the department that would be covering the salaries of the teachers in our correctional institutions.

 

MS. CASEY: Does the minister or staff have the number of teachers that we have in those institutions that we are funding through the Department of Justice?

 

MS. JENNEX: I can't answer it definitively, but it looks to me as if there are five or six teachers within the correctional facility, but I guess to find out the exact number if it's a person or a position, because sometimes it wouldn't be a full-time position needed in some cases. we would have to do a little bit more research. But the money coming from the department is definitely for a teacher salary for our teachers who are in our correctional - I hate to use the word "correctional", that's what they are - but our facilities to support our young people to have the supports that they need, so that when they leave the facility they have the opportunity of being successful. As the member also knows, sometimes students will go back into the school system with supports too, so this would be covering salaries.

 

MS. CASEY: The minister may or may not be able to answer this question - but are there any other departments, other than the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, money flowing through the Department of Justice to support those teaching positions?

 

MS. JENNEX: No. In terms of the budget with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, when we support the Department of Justice it would be supporting the salaries of the teachers. I would think that if there were any other departments that would be supporting the justice system, it wouldn't be for the salary or support of teachers - it would be for other initiatives.

 

MS. CASEY: In that same document, if we could move along to Page 124 - this is under Other Expenditures, and some that attract your attention - at the top of Page 124, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Learning - $159,000.

 

MS. JENNEX: That would be educational supplies and it says "Educational Supplies for Various Divisions", but the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Learning part - when we think of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, of course we're thinking of television and radio, but there are also many things that they do in terms of educational supports that are in the department that we either copy under copyright and send out and/or we lend out to schools.

 

MS. CASEY: Further down on that page we're looking at a fair number of expenditures to Communications Nova Scotia, so if we could focus on that - for example, $20,000 for CNS for advertising. Can you be specific as to what that was for?

 

MS. JENNEX: I don't have the specifics of this. I see Advertising Services, and I know that when we had Dr. Levin in here, one of the things that he was very clear about is that we needed to let people know what was happening in the education system and have more engagement with the general public. Everybody has gone to school and everyone has an opinion about what schooling is about, so I know that under Advertising Services it could have been around the Kids and Learning First component or it could be advertising.

 

I know that if you open up, like for example The ChronicleHerald - I never read my paper in paper form, I have a subscription - that sometimes you'll see "are you aware that government services" and it will be a link to the documents that students who have special needs and their parents would be able to access, so it would be under advertising. It could be a number of different things.

 

But we do not have the specific breakdown of how that was used, but it would be around providing information to the general public around schools, schooling - it could even be advertising about time periods for schools closing, et cetera, things that need to be advertised especially in The ChronicleHerald around schools that we needed the general public to know.

 

MS. CASEY: Again, for Communications Nova Scotia there seems to be a huge expenditure there to the Queen's Printer - could you be specific on that?

 

MS. JENNEX: I can't be specific on exactly what that covered, but I know that we send out documents to schools and to parents. Everything that Communications Nova Scotia does within the department, they charge us for the work that they do. I know that in terms of the printers it could have been the Autism Action Plan and the supporting documents. It could be the brochures that provide information to parents for homework for Primary - what that looks like - and there are lots of flyers that go out to the schools from the department. It could have been the Autism Action Plan, it could have been the Kids and Learning First document, but the Queen's Printer would be where they would have done that work and it could have been - I would imagine looking at that there would have been quite a few different things that were captured under that.

 

I did know exactly how much it cost to print the Kids and Learning First, but I can't remember at this time - but it wasn't that, I know it wasn't included in that. Documents go out from the department to schools, school boards, especially we provide print - we have many things on the Web that people can download but not everyone wants it in that form and people are writing in to the department to send out certain documents too. We have things in print form, and we also have things that are also housed on our Web site.

 

MADAM CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Colchester North has five and a half minutes remaining.

MS. CASEY: Thank you. I guess to wrap up that particular segment of questions, would it be possible to get an itemized list of the expenditures for the Queen's Printer for the $569,000?

 

MS. JENNEX: I definitely will ask for that information to be provided. This one will take a little bit longer because of the lateness of the hour. I was able to answer a question in a timely manner this evening that had been posed, but right now I will have to make a request of Communications Nova Scotia and we'll get that answer in as timely a manner as I'm absolutely able to answer that question.

 

MS. CASEY: Thank you. I appreciate that. It's not urgent but I would be interested in seeing that when you can get it. I would like now to go to the budget document, Page 7.3, and when you look at the Public Education Funding and when you look at the estimates to actuals you have an increase of $2.6 million - could the minister explain that please?

 

MS. JENNEX: This one I can answer definitively - I remember this expenditure. This is the extra funding that we provided the school boards when we needed to hire teachers during the year to lower the pressures on the growth areas of the province.

 

MS. CASEY: If we follow that line along, then we look at the actuals, which was $922 million, but the estimate is now down by $6 million to $916million, so if we needed $2 million to bring the complement of teachers up - I guess I'll let you explain why we are now estimating $6 million less.

 

MS. JENNEX: I hope I can explain this appropriately, because I understand it. It is the $3.3 million increase in funding offset by the $12.2 million MET - the Mandatory Education Tax - and there's the difference.

 

MS. CASEY: I think I'm going to have to ask you to give a clearer explanation.

 

MS. JENNEX: Total funding has not changed. We've increased overall funding $3.3 million. There was an increase of $3.3 million, but there was an increase of the MET of $12.2 million this year. Every year, the MET changes and the provincial contribution, so the MET this year - for members, the Mandatory Education Tax, everyone gets it on their bill when you get your tax you can see that's line item in the municipalities. It's not money that we're taking from the municipalities; this is money that's a flow-through. Because of increased assessments, there was an increase of $12.2 million with the MET, so there is no reduction in the public school funding for the provinces and for the board. The difference is because of the increase of the MET.

 

MS. CASEY: If I could go to Public Schools then, where we're again seeing the actual is greater than the estimate, and then back again, below, the original estimate.

 

MS. JENNEX: It is getting late and I have quite a bit of information on the difference between the forecast, the actual and the estimate. There was an increase in current spending around the French second language, but that was offset by the federal component of the French second language.

 

I'm looking at all of the other variations within the public school program. Some of it was salary increases offset by - also vacancies, additional funding was added for virtual school expansion, it has been funding for anti-bullying programs. It's two pages of a number of reasons why there's a difference between the actual, the forecast, and the estimate for this year.

 

There's no one single answer, it's quite a lot - under Administration, under Education Quality Services, under English Program Services, under Learning Resources and Technology, under African Canadian Services, under Student Services, under Mi'kmaq Services, under Evaluation Services, Regional Education Services, French Second Language, and School Board Labour Relations - and I can continue on. There are a number of components, all with little pieces here and there which add up to the difference. It's mostly, I see, salaries and vacancies, and also we have federal funding in that component too.

 

MADAM CHAIRMAN: The time allotted to the Official Opposition has elapsed.

 

The honourable member for Argyle.

 

HON. CHRISTOPHER D'ENTREMONT: It is my pleasure to stand for a few moments and maybe bring us to the end of this evening. I'm sure many of you have been listening attentively to the answers by the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. I want to thank the minister for being here tonight and, of course, her staff for being here to answer our questions. It's late in the day and probably what I want to try to do is maybe focus on a couple of schools, some school construction things that are happening in southwestern Nova Scotia. So maybe staff will want to get ready on a couple of those projects that are going on, maybe some of them in Clark's Harbour and Cape Island as well.

The first question revolves around the school in Wedgeport. There have been a number of projects that have revolved around Wedgeport, it is an Acadian school board, a CSAP school. It is of the vintage - probably as old as I am at this point, and it has had some renovations to it over the last bit. It had the addition of an elevator, and they're still waiting for phase two of that project. I was wondering if CSAP has École Wedgeport on their list, because there is some renovation still to be done and the school is sort of waiting for that kind of announcement or continuation of the project that had started probably two years ago.

 

MS. JENNEX: I have to say that last year, if you remember, you asked a question about school and my colleague passed it to me and I couldn't read it and I passed it back to him and he couldn't read it either because the font was too small. This year, they made sure we both could read it.

 

We went through and looked at the school that you have in question and I see that we do not have it on the list, and you probably looked over at me to see a look of puzzlement on my face. This is a project that I don't know about, and I don't see it on our school capital projects. It's not in this year's budget and so that's something that I look forward to talking with the honourable member at a later date to hear more about what the project is and what's happening there.

 

MR. D'ENTREMONT: I'll be happy to speak to you just a little more about it. École Wedgeport has somewhere near 100 students, so it's not a very big school, it's of a certain vintage that does need a fair amount of work. There has been some work done to it, but they were expecting a little bit of demolition, a little bit of changing, some within the footprint - there has been some discussion of maybe even of the school board, the CSAP, actually asking for a total replacement at this point. There are a lot of things going on and I think the community is just sort of wondering what exactly is going on - maybe at a later date we can talk about that.

 

The discussion over the last bit in southwestern Nova Scotia has been school closures. We know from your announcement last week that you've asked the school boards to sort of put the brakes on that; maybe you'll have an opportunity to look at school closure policies again. There have been some issues, I believe, in the Cape Island-Clark's Harbour area, this is Cape Island Elementary, I think, has been discussed over the last bit, so I'm just wondering, looking at that, with the renovations of Clark's Harbour, what is the fate of Cape Island Elementary?

MS. JENNEX: I have to say it was really exciting; I was actually down in the Clark's Harbour area and met with the warden, and this project is moving forward. I just want to be very clear around what I asked the school boards, and I know the honourable member has heard me try to make this as clear as possible - that the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development does not have any authority over the process with the school boards; the school review process sits with the school boards. But I can ask them to, a request to suspend. So what I've done is - through this process it's been extremely upsetting and adversarial - so for the coming year, for them, I've made a request for them to suspend any school reviews while we work on a new model, a better model.

 

And we'll hear back from the school boards by April 30^th. And the other component of that is if they have made any decisions in this current school year, the year they - so the decisions that would have been made by March 31^st of this year, to delay while we work through the new model. Any decisions made prior to that move forward the same as usual, it's only really asking for a suspension for the review, and asking for a delay. I've made that request, and I will hear back by April 30^th to see exactly what school boards have to say.

 

MR. D'ENTREMONT: I have two questions, and one I'll actually ask on behalf of the member for Richmond, but I'll ask about mine first.

 

Around the neighbours that we do have, of course there has been a discussion about Arcadia School, and what happens with Arcadia School has direct impact on what happens at Plymouth School, which is in my constituency - I sort of share a border between the two. So maybe what the Tri-County School Board had made is a decision to, within the next five years, close Arcadia, close Central, and close South Centennial to try to amalgamate them, I guess, and send some to Plymouth, amalgamate them into one single school. So I'm just wondering where the discussion is, that one is going to go on the brakes, but it still asks the question of what's the option going to be, if there's going to be a school renovation or school construction to take care of those kids who are going to be displaced?

 

MS. JENNEX: It's a very important question that you asked, and one that I want to make very clear. If school boards are moving forward with capital requests of the department, I do not want them to put the brakes on those. If they see the need for a new school or renovations, I don't want them to put the brakes on the ask around the capital projects - so no brakes on that. I was very clear, I met with the -

 

MADAM CHAIRMAN: Order, please. Order. The time allotted for today for consideration of Supply has elapsed.

 

The honourable Government House Leader.

 

HON. FRANK CORBETT: Madam Chairman, I move that the committee do now rise and report progress and beg leave to meet again.

 

MADAM CHAIRMAN: The motion is carried.

 

[The committee adjourned at 9:34 p.m.]