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HALIFAX, MONDAY, MAY 16, 2005
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE ON SUPPLY
2:24 P.M.
CHAIRMAN
Mr. James DeWolfe
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable Government House Leader.
HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, would you please call the estimates of the Department of Transportation and Public Works.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Preston.
MR. KEITH COLWELL: Mr. Chairman, I just have one more question for the minister, and then I'm going to turn the rest of time over to my colleague, the member for Annapolis. Mr. Minister, I have a road in my riding, the old Highway No. 7, that goes all the way through my riding. One section of it from where Lake Echo ends and Porters Lake starts until the old bridge on Highway No. 7 in Porters Lake, and goes over Porters Lake, needs some repair work. I was wondering, is any repair work or resurfacing scheduled for this year?
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable Minister of Transportation and Public Works.
HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, I'll have to take that question under advisement. I think, from the description, though, the honourable member has given that it would probably be a RIM program tender rather than a TCA tender. However, I'll take that question under advisement and I'll get back to the honourable member. I would also suggest that if he contacts his area manager, he could probably tell him very rapidly whether it's RIM or capital.
MR. COLWELL: Mr. Chairman, I thank the minister for that information. I will check with the district manager again. I've checked several times already, but the road does need some repairs to it. It's not a high-traffic area, but there are a lot of school buses and a lot of people who live in the area, and we definitely need some repairs. With that said, I'll turn the remainder of my time over to the member for Annapolis.
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MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Annapolis.
MR. STEPHEN MCNEIL: Mr. Chairman, I want to thank the minister. I appreciate the opportunity to ask him a few questions. On Friday when you were being asked by the member for Digby-Annapolis around the completion of Highway No. 101 through the Digby riding, you made reference to the twinning from Windsor to Coldbrook, and that was going to be your next priority. One of the issues through the central Valley, from Coldbrook all the way to Bridgetown, is that there's no third passing lane. As you know, there's a passing lane below Bridgetown, towards Digby. The volume of traffic from CFB Greenwood through to the Coldbrook area has consistently increased over the last number of years. I'm wondering where is your department in the plan to put that on the agenda, so those of us who live in the central Valley will have the opportunity to at least move along that series a little quicker than we are?
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, there was a recommendation from the safety committee that we put two passing lanes in that section. We haven't gotten to it yet; however, it will be progressed in the near future.
MR. MCNEIL: If you could just explain where in that section of highway you're talking about? Are those two passing lanes from Berwick to Kentville? Are there any in the lower part of Annapolis County? The other issue pertaining to the 100-Series Highway is, after the highway is built, and we go through repairing as we go along, the resurfacing of that highway in different sections, does that still fall under the federal-provincial agreement, or is that something that the province does on its own?
MR. RUSSELL: No, Mr. Chairman, the repaving is a responsibility of the province. The federal government cost-sharing agreements with regard to the National Highway System relate to expansion of the system and other improvements for the safety of the travelling public.
MR. MCNEIL: The other part of that question was around where throughout the central Valley are those passing lanes recommended to be?
MR. RUSSELL: I'm advised that I'll have to get back to the member on that. I don't think it has actually been put into design yet, so I can't give him the exact location. I can tell him whereabouts we are looking at the present time, for putting those passing lanes in. There are two of them.
MR. MCNEIL: Probably a month ago I was looking for some bridge reports pertaining to my constituency. I contacted the western region supervisor asking for those, and I was advised at that point that they were not available to me, that I needed to go through a FOIPOP procedure, at which time I was quite surprised. I came to you, and I will say I received both of those reports that I was looking for. It seems strange to me, though, that a
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staff member of your department, who was supposed to be my contact person, that I should be contacting instead of running to the department every time I'm looking for something, is telling me that if I want information that I think should be in the public domain, to go through freedom of information. I want to know what is the department's stance on this, and whether or not you're endorsing this kind of behaviour of employees who are making it difficult for us to find out what's happening in our own constituency?
[2:30 p.m.]
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that perhaps the area manager was recognizing the fact that we do get a lot of requests for information, and that possibly he would have to contact the department in Halifax to get permission to release those particular reports. I can assure the honourable member that we try to avoid FOIPOPs as much as we possibly can. It's much easier for the department, much cheaper for the department, and saves an awful lot of hassle if we just make the information available. There's certainly no secrecy in our bridge reports. Quite frankly, if a report comes in and shows that a bridge is unsafe, it's immediately closed, or if it demonstrates that the capacity of the bridge should be reduced, we do so, or if repairs should be carried, we also do that as soon as we can.
MR. MCNEIL: I'll just follow up. Since it seems to be difficult for me to acquire the bridge reports for the constituency of Annapolis through the western district, I'm going to ask you directly, will you forward all the bridge reports that pertain to the constituency of Annapolis, and the most recent bridge reports, to my office?
MR. RUSSELL: I would take it that you just want the most recent ones, you don't want all the bridge reports going back over the last 100 years? Mr. Chairman, I'll take it under advisement and see what I can locate. The annual bridge reports are very sketchy because it's a level one inspection, just a check-off. I can certainly get that for the honourable member.
MR. MCNEIL: Mr. Chairman, it's not that complicated, either you're going to give me the ones you have or you're going to send me to the FOIPOP . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please. The time has expired.
The honourable member for Pictou West.
MR. CHARLES PARKER: Good afternoon, Mr. Minister, and staff. I guess this is round three we're into this afternoon, Thursday, Friday and here it is Monday. It's good to once again have a chance to ask a few questions of the Department of Transportation and Public Works. The other day I was asking about some roads in my particular riding, Route 256, the River John Road, the Old Post Road and so on. I could go on and talk about them, but I know we have limited time here today. I just wanted to ask, is there an allocation per
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riding? We have 52 ridings, not all of which are rural ridings, some of them are very urban, but of the 30-odd rural ridings, is there an allocation per riding for transportation in this province?
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, the allocations are not made by riding, they're made by district with regard to RIM. For capital, no, there is no allocation based on just straight splitting up of the money available for capital. It's based on the need. I should also point out, and I think I mentioned this the other day, that the amount of money that's available for rural roads is not really the whole $142.827 million, because of the fact that we have to take off the amount that's allocated for the 100-Series Highways. The priority of the department is clearly the maintenance and sustenance of the 100-Series Highway system because of the fact that those roads are in good shape, we want to maintain them that way, we want to bring the others up to that sort of a stage. But, Mr. Chairman, we must still spend about $40-odd million every year on the maintenance, upkeep and repair, what have you, of the 100-Series Highways.
MR. PARKER: Mr. Minister, maybe it's a Freudian slip but I thought I heard you say something about $256 million, but maybe you had Route 256 on your mind. I'm not going to belabour the point because I talked about this at length on Friday, but I hope that you would be able to keep all ridings in the province in a mind of fairness and allocate dollars based on need. Certainly there is lots of need in the West Branch, River John, Meadowville areas of our county and I just again reiterate the need to allocate some dollars to those secondary paved roads. They really need it.
I'm going to move on to some other issues, to another riding in Kings County. We've had some discussions in the past about the West Black Rock Road in Kings County and I just want to get an update from you on where things are at there. We've asked you in Question Period and we've corresponded with you about the condition of that road. As you know, there were many difficulties with the type of gravel that was spread on the road. It was type "m" gravel that caused all kinds of difficulties for drivers. There were many flat tires and other problems for residents there that really is ending up costing a whole lot of money. I know the original tender there was for $146,720, and it didn't work because it was just causing all kinds of flats for automobiles and so the department tried to remediate it with some sand they put on it. I think that was almost another $10,000 that was spent to repair it. Now I have a letter from you dated February 14th of this year and it indicates the department will be resurfacing the road next Spring with a finer gravel to try to remediate the problem.
I'm wondering, I assume the cost is going to be in the same neighbourhood, probably $140,000 to $150,000 to do it all over again. Is the department going to be taking care of that cost or are you going to be going back after the original contractor? It has already cost us $156,000, counting the sand. Who is doing the second job and what guarantees are there that it will do the job this time?
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MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, taking the latter part of the question first, $156,000 dealt with a number of roads, in fact, out of that tender, not just the Black Rock Road. At a public meeting, just recently, about three or four weeks ago, with the residents in the area, they requested that we do not add additional gravel to the surface of the road, because the road has settled down and stabilized very well now and it's a very good riding surface. We will certainly keep it maintained at that level and the money that we were going to use for the re-gravelling of the Black Rock Road is going to be diverted to other projects within the area.
MR. PARKER: That's interesting to hear, Mr. Minister. Let's hope the problem is resolved because it has caused many difficulties for drivers in that area, I understand not just on the West Black Rock Road but on some other roads that were gravelled with this sharp, type "m" gravel. Can you tell us the actual cost for the repairs that were paid for by the department? There were dozens and dozens of flat tires. What was the actual cost to the department to remediate that problem?
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, the honourable member is absolutely correct. The gravel that went on that road, the rock, was type "m" and it did meet specs. However, unfortunately, it did have a very large number of sharps within the content of the material and that, I should point out, fortunately is not common but it does happen on occasion. You will get into part of a pit where you end up with a lot of sharps and it resulted in a number of flat tires. In some cases, people made claims against the department and we paid out something in the order of $4,000 in repairs to tires, to rims and to replace tires.
MR. PARKER: So, Mr. Chairman, to the minister, I guess then the actual additional cost over and above the contract to Lafarge, I believe it was, was almost $10,000 for sand that was tried to remediate the problem and another $4,000 then for payouts on the flats. So roughly $14,000 would be the final cost to remediate the problem here. That's not a question, that's just a comment. Let's hope it's the end of the story, but we'll see.
I want to come now to the Supplementary Detail Estimates Book and ask you a few questions on some specific line by line items. I want to turn, first of all, to Page 17.6. The first item I want to ask you about is the bottom line on that page, the Provincial Relief Ferry and this year the allocation is $30,000 and last year it was $234,000, so it's a whole lot less this year. First of all, what is the Provincial Relief Ferry and why is it about a 10th or so of the budget amount this year as compared to last year?
MR. RUSSELL: A very good question, Mr. Chairman. The relief ferry is a ferry that we have as a spare so that when we have a ferry that goes out of service for one reason or another, we can get another ferry in operation to replace it. Last year the expenditure was quite high because we did a refit of the relief ferry. This year is just normal running costs.
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MR. PARKER: I want to ask about the relief ferry itself. Is it a ferry that sits idle until it's needed? Is it on provincial call? If there's a problem in Cape Breton or on the South Shore, is it available all the time and is it a certain size or can it only replace certain ferries as needed? I just need to know what it is.
MR. RUSSELL: I just found out for myself, Mr. Chairman, as to where the ferry is. It's in Digby and the ferry is a craft that we can utilize, I think, with cable or without cable, and it has been utilized on a number of occasions. We do occasionally have breakdowns in ferries, either with the mechanism for the tow rope in the case of the cable ferries or sometimes it's just a straight engine-type of propulsion problem. So the ferry is essential for us to maintain essential ferry services. As I say, it sits in Digby until it is utilized.
MR. PARKER: Mr. Chairman, I want to turn back now to the previous page, Page 17.5 under Highways and Bridges. The first line item there is Surface Maintenance. I notice last year the estimate was around $26.912 million. This year it's almost $31 million, $30.687 million. It's up $4 million almost. First of all, why is it up that amount and is this in the RIM budget or is it elsewhere in your budget?
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, it could be a little bit of both but primarily it's all operations and that is one of the reasons why we are employing more CUPE staff this year, or at least CUPE staff's hours for the Summer program will be lengthened.
[2:45 p.m.]
MR. PARKER: I just want to be clear on this. Is it entirely your own department staff that this additional $4 million was spent on or is some of it contracted out under the RIM program or other programs? I'm just trying to figure out where it's being spent and how many new staff will be hired with this $4 million?
MR. RUSSELL: It's approximately an additional 100 FTEs this year. That may not necessarily be 100 actual people on the job because of the fact that some people will work more hours than they worked last year. You add all those bits together and you come up with one full-time equivalent, but in essence the numbers will be substantially reduced and the number of hours will be substantially reduced for those employees in the Summer months, Mr. Chairman.
Of that additional money coming into the operational budget, approximately $10 million will be spent by our own operational forces and about $1.4 million which will probably go out on tendered contracts under various road improvements and $2.5 million into the RIM program.
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MR. PARKER: Okay, continuing on through the book, I want to turn to Page 17.8 under Net Program Expenses for Vehicle Compliance. I see where it is up considerably from last year. It's probably a 25 per cent increase, from $2 million to almost $2.6 million. Can you tell us why it has gone up about 25 per cent?
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, under compliance this year there has been another $500,000 which will be for additional inspectors and also for additional hours at the weigh stations. As you know, it was no secret when the weigh stations would be closed and truckers would accommodate their driving habits perhaps to accommodate the rules of the weigh stations. I believe that this year we'll have some of the weigh stations operating, more or less, 24/7. The rationale for this is simply that excess weights on our highways are very hard on the road surface and, in fact, truckers who abuse the system by overweights, we would hope would be caught this coming year and we would have a decrease in the number of trucks operating on our roads in an overweight situation.
MR. PARKER: Mr. Chairman, I want to turn to the next page, Page 17.10 under Public Works this time. The bottom line is Environmental Services. I notice it has been cut, it has gone down a fair bit and I'm just wondering why Environmental Services has had their budget cut.
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, this is perhaps a little more complicated answer but the Infirmary, which we are tearing down on Queen Street, the demolition has commenced. We booked the money for that demolition, which was partly the environmental side of it, in fiscal 2004-05, but in actual fact the work will be done primarily in 2005-06. It was just a matter of pre-booking the cost of that particular project.
MR. PARKER: A related question, I guess - that was on Page 17.10 - if we flip over to Page 17.13, again Environmental Remediation last year was estimated at $3.2 million, and actually $13.5 million was spent. This year it's down, it's only about $1.7 million, so a tremendous difference over what was spent last year but also it's a difference between what was estimated last year and what's estimated this year. Can you give us an explanation for that?
MR. RUSSELL: Again, Mr. Chairman, under our programs, the year in which the money is booked is the year that the money is going to be shown as being expended. That expenditure, once again, of $13.5 million relates to two projects where there is considerable remediation going on. One is the Infirmary property on Queen Street. The other one is the Boat Harbour remediation program which hasn't started as yet but will be starting in full swing this year.
MR. PARKER: Maybe briefly, Mr. Minister, you mentioned Boat Harbour and that is sort of near and dear to my heart. Neenah paper mill is in my riding, although the outflow is in a neighbouring riding, but it still affects all of Pictou County and beyond and there is
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very much a concern there among the fishing community about the outflow and the tidal plan, I guess, to take the solids out of the Boat Harbour estuary and let it flow in and out with the tide. So there is a real concern there with the fishermen, the lobster fishermen in particular. I wonder, Mr. Minister, if you could give us an update on what is happening at Boat Harbour and how the fears of the fishermen are going to be alleviated by your plan.
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, first of all, Boat Harbour, for anyone who is unfamiliar with the subject, is a problem that I think we can be very proud of in Nova Scotia. It has been resolved in that the Boat Harbour, itself, the problems that were occasioned there were from the pulp mill effluent and some years ago, I think it was about 1994 or 1995, we entered into an agreement with the mill and the Indian band to provide a remedy to that problem and it has worked very satisfactorily. However, the problems have not exactly been completely cured, as the honourable member well knows. As part of the solution to the problem, there was a causeway built across the outflow from the bay into the ocean and the final solution, of course, would be to open the bay again to the ocean and allow perhaps a fishery to be established there.
As it says in the briefing note that I have here, the mill's current treatment of effluent is a real environmental success story. It is one of the top five plants in Canada for meeting government pulp and paper effluent guidelines. So I think that is evidence that the system has worked, but now we are coming to the more difficult part which is the removal of the causeway and, as I say, opening up the bay.
There are a number of problems associated with opening up the bay. It's where the sludge would end up if indeed the bay was opened and I understand that part of the solution is to run an extension of the pipeline out from the present end of the pipeline out into the ocean. I'd be pleased to provide to the member the latest briefing note which, I must confess, I haven't read but it doesn't seem to be anything new. I would be prepared to provide him with a copy of that if he wished.
MR. PARKER: Mr. Chairman, I think that's the very concern of the fishing community, that this pipeline is going to go out into the Strait and that's where the fishing grounds are, that's where the valuable lobster and scallops and other species are located where the fishermen come to try to make a living. Naturally, they are concerned if there is a whole lot of effluent from the mill coming directly through a pipeline into the Strait. So I would ask you to tread very carefully, Mr. Minister, to make sure that the interests of the fishing community are met and not have raw material dumped directly into the Strait.
MR. RUSSELL: I can assure the honourable member that there will be lots of discussion and as I understand it, that is why we are proceeding very slowly, because we recognize that with the solution there are all kinds of problems associated with it. So we do have to tread very softly, as he suggests, and I would suggest that we will not be proceeding with any action until we have determined that we are not going to disrupt the fishery.
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MR. PARKER: There are lots of other questions I could ask, Mr. Chairman, but I know we have limited time here today and I'm going to share some of my time with my colleague, the member for Timberlea-Prospect.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.
MR. WILLIAM ESTABROOKS: Mr. Chairman, I have a couple of topics to bring to the minister's attention. I have, of course, been in correspondence and I want to thank, in particular, the new area manager for suburban, Bob Bieren, who has taken over in that responsibility. He has done a great job. He has been very accountable and besides that, he gets back to me and I do appreciate his thoroughness, as with most of the staff that I deal with, as the huge amount of staff that I deal with out of the Beechville base are extremely co-operative.
Three very dangerous intersections. I just came through one and my Whip was informed of my absence for a few moments. Coming down Highway No. 103 from the South Shore at Exit 5, trying to make a left-hand turn there is extremely dangerous, but we understand that as the roadwork proceeds, this is going to be taken care of. I thank you for your prompt attention to that matter.
There is also that dangerous intersection as you come up the Prospect Road where it joins on with the old St. Margarets Bay Road. I think there should be a review there of a flashing green or a delayed green or whatever the description is. I know I have made that known to the minister previously and I really do think that we must look again at that dangerous intersection opposite Tantallon Junior High School. I know you and your staff, and Bob Bieren in particular, have been on top of that, but I just want to bring those issues to your attention.
I want to talk, however, about the Risk Management and Claims division. Now, Mr. Langille must have the word "no" stamped on his forehead, because I've deal with Mr. Langille's department many times. I've dealt with brush being blown on the road and damage to vehicles. I've dealt with smashed windshields. I've dealt with mailboxes that have been inadvertently damaged. In fact, you can have a look at a little Dodge truck out there in the parking lot, the back end of it, because the snowplow, on a hard Winter's night, drove some snow into the back end of my truck . . .
AN HON. MEMBER: That's no feather duster he was driving.
[3:00 p.m.]
MR. ESTABROOKS: That's no feather duster I was driving that day. I'm concerned, however, that a particular case I recently dealt with, a young couple - and I know the Minister of Education is always interested in this; yes, both of them were students of mine - they had
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damage to their windshield on the Prospect Road. They had the time, they took the pictures, it was a DOT truck that caused the damage. That's not even in dispute. All the materials, everything was submitted but in return, the very customary answer comes back from Mr. Langille's department, no, we're not responsible.
My question is, is it possible for the minister to table, at a convenient time, the number of claims where the Department of Transportation and Public Works has been involved, the number of claims where there has been damage caused for various reasons, and the amount of money that has been awarded in favour of Nova Scotians putting claims in? Just the response of go to your insurance company, well, that's a whole other set of circumstances. So I was wondering if you could comment on that and if, at a convenient time in the future, your staff could tell us, at their leisure, the number of claims that your department faces, the number that have been settled, and the amount of money that has been awarded to Nova Scotians.
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, I would be pleased to do that. I would advise the honourable member, though, that what is customarily in the insurance business called acts of God do not fall under the responsibility of the Department of Transportation and Public Works. I think our claims department reacts to claims in a suitable fashion. If the honourable member thinks otherwise, well, we will certainly take a look at it but I will be pleased to get those numbers for him.
MR. ESTABROOKS: Mr. Chairman, I'm just going to take a couple of moments, if I may. I would, of course, be aware of the fact that - and I'm under the direction of my Transportation Critic - we are giving time to the minister for a wrap-up statement of some sort, I would assume so.
AN HON. MEMBER: We go over to the Liberals next.
MR. ESTABROOKS: Could we look at an important issue, Mr. Minister? That is the fact that at times you receive petition after petition after petition and I understand the fact, of course, of the process with petitions and that Nova Scotians are encouraged to submit them, and people literally go up and down their roads and get petitions that are in favour of this or looking at that. I want you to restore the faith of Nova Scotians in the fact that it is worth the time of people who are collecting and presenting this petition, that that is an exercise that you, as the minister, and people in your staff do look at these petitions and say that's something we should consider when we decide the priorities in the upcoming decision making with limited dollars that you face. I thank the minister for his time.
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, the matter of petitions is one that is of great interest to the department because it shows the level of dissatisfaction perhaps with a particular road or a particular traffic situation. Unfortunately, we just do not have the money to react
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favourably to every petition, but I can assure the honourable member that every petition is looked at and considered.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Annapolis.
MR. MCNEIL: Mr. Chairman, I just want to clarify on my last question. Will you be forwarding those bridge inspection reports from my constituency to me, the most recent ones and the ones that you have in your possession at the department?
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, as I said before, we will send you the most recent ones on a bridge, but the number of reports would be astronomical from the point of view that we probably from day one keep records on every bridge. Certainly the latest.
MR. MCNEIL: I do appreciate the two that you sent me. What I was looking for was the remaining bridge reports for my constituency and I'm sure you will forward those to me, for the remaining bridges in my constituency. That's correct? Thank you, Mr. Minister, I appreciate it.
I want to go back to the inspection report that I asked for on the Saw Mill Creek Bridge. I spoke to the bridge inspector, Stuart Glen, a few days ago to find some clarification on it. As you know, there were some issues around it that I was concerned about. In speaking to Stuart, he informed me that the old way of inspecting bridges has gone out the window. As the minister had said to me, it used to be rated and given a number from 1 to 10 and 10, of course, being the best and suggested that 1, the bridge would be closed. He informed me that that has gone by the wayside now and the department has gone under a new way of inspecting bridges and categorizing them. He brought it to my attention, and as I look at it, he says this bridge is in very poor condition and a variety of deficiencies are noted below. He said to me it's rare in this province that a bridge will get a very poor condition.
So it then went on and listed the deficiencies which we spoke about, and then the recommendation on the following page says that the existing bridge is to be removed and replaced with a new structure. It says the new TPW bridge is to be designed over the winter of 2004-05 with construction in 2005. So I'm wondering if the minister could tell me when this bridge will be started this Summer.
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, we are in the process of getting the necessary permits and I think I've spoken at length in the House about getting permits these days. Sometimes the permit is going to require a specific design, a modification and that also takes time. The design should be finished this year and certainly the replacement will be next year.
MR. MCNEIL: In the letter that I received from you, signed by you, it gave that description, basically saying that the permits were required in order for that bridge to be replaced and it said it would be done the following year. But in June 2004 the department
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applied for an environmental permit which was issued in 2004. It was amended on November 5, 2004, and I can give you the number. It's 2004039268 and the amended number is the exact same, except at the end it has A01, and the amended permit is good from June 1 to September 20, 2005. Now if the department is not doing anything to that bridge and it's not to be replaced for a year from now and the environmental permits, which take so long to get, have already been issued last year and are amended again this year, what's the holdup?
MR. RUSSELL: Besides the environmental permits, I think as the honourable member is aware, we must get Fisheries and Oceans and we must get Navigable Waters as well and all these things take time. Mr. Chairman, if everything falls in place and the design is completed, if it's this year we will go to tender this year, but at the present time I'm advised that that probably won't take place until next year.
MR. MCNEIL: I understand where the minister is coming from. The issue that I have in my constituency, for example, I have an employee of yours who doesn't report, who describes the bridge as being in very poor condition, which is a rare description of any of the bridges we have, being told that that bridge needs immediate work to be replaced. I have constituents calling who are surrounding that bridge saying listen, what's happening?
The permits have been applied for and have been received from the Department of Environment and Labour, which I understand takes a long time, believe me. I've been calling the Department of Environment and Labour in my constituency about outstanding permits which are being issued. They have been issued. There is not absolutely one thing being done to that bridge. A year ago, it was described as being in very poor condition, which is a rare description of the bridges in this province and we are going to wait another year, so that's two years from now. I want to know what I can tell those constituents.
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, I can assure the honourable member that the bridge is assessed as being safe or otherwise it would be closed. I can advise the honourable member that we are proceeding as rapidly as we can but in everything we do, it's a matter of cash flow, it's a matter of money. The bridge is certainly slated for replacement. It will certainly be replaced next year. It may go to tender even this year.
MR. MCNEIL: I would assume what the minister forgot to say is safety would be the primary concern of your department. I mean with the amount of money that's being distributed around the province, I assume safety would be the number one priority. I just wanted to make sure of that.
I would also ask the minister if he would follow up on that bridge and get back to me on what permit is the holdup at this point, considering these permits that I have the numbers for have been issued. I would like him to follow up at some later date to let me know what other outstanding permits they are requiring that aren't already issued.
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MR. RUSSELL: I could probably even do better than that, I think, Mr. Chairman. I can give the honourable member expected timelines for the replacement of the bridge. That's quite in order and I think we can do that.
MR. MCNEIL: Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that from the minister.
Brookside Drive is a road that actually begins in Kings County, goes through the county line into Annapolis County. A number of my constituents, when they come out of my county into Kings, they have to go back in on Brookside Drive. It's a road that was sand sealed a number of years ago. It's in disrepair on a constant basis. We are in there trying to attempt to do patchwork on it. I want to know where the department has been, what their stance is on sand sealing of some of these secondary roads and subdivision roads that were done years ago and have been left out.
MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, the honourable member raises an interesting point. The sand-sealed roads are something that I'm personally interested in, primarily because I kind of have them in my riding. Sand seal only works in certain ridings and when you do have a soil base that accepts sand seal, you can end up with a very good, effective road surface at a very small cost. So I can appreciate where the honourable member is coming from. I will have to take that question under advisement and I will let him know. As I say, in Annapolis - in fact, I think just about anywhere in Kings County - sand seal works pretty well, and there are some areas down on the South Shore where it works quite well as well.
MR. MCNEIL: Mr. Chairman, I have just one further question and I will just advise the minister that Brookside Drive would be a wonderful street to experiment on if there is any experiment he would like to make in terms of sand sealing; we would be more than happy to encourage him to do just that. It's a beautiful sand base.
The other question that I have is around the Department of Transportation and Public Works in Middleton. More than two months ago, the roof blew off the backside of the mechanical shed. We went out and got plastic and we put plastic on the roof, and now we have secured the plastic on the roof and it looks just great as we drive by to see the Department of Transportation and Public Works roof covered in plastic with no shingles. There has been no tender. No one has been doing anything toward that shed. I'm wanting to know if the minister would look into that issue and get back to me on when we can expect to see that issue solved and corrected.
MR. RUSSELL: I can assure the honourable member, Madam Chairman, I will certainly do that. I wasn't aware of it and now I'm interested as to why we've got a shed that has lost its shingles and is covered in plastic, so I will do that.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Clare.
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MR. WAYNE GAUDET: Madam Chairman, I have a few questions for the minister this afternoon but before I begin, I want to first thank the minister and his staff for responding to the letters that I have forwarded to his office or to others in the department. I also want to acknowledge the staff from the Saulnierville and Yarmouth offices. They are always very professional, very helpful with concerns that I bring to their attention.
My first question has to do with bridges. Two years ago, the Meteghan River Bridge collapsed in the river. Meteghan River, Madam Chairman, is located in Clare, Digby County. When that bridge collapsed, it raised a number of concerns with some residents in Clare. A question that I've been asked is how often are bridge inspections carried out? Maybe the minister could indicate how often these inspections are carried out.
[3:15 p.m.]
MR. RUSSELL: Madam Chairman, level one inspections are carried out on an annual basis. More in-depth inspections are carried out, and it ranges over a period and depends on the age of the bridge, the construction of the bridge, et cetera; it could be from three to five years.
MR. GAUDET: Mr. Minister, two bridges, especially in the Clare area that have prompted a number of questions has been the Mavillette Bridge and the other one is in St. Benoni. I'm just wondering if it would be possible for the minister to provide me with a copy of the most recent bridge inspection on these two bridges. These are basically the two bridges that have raised a number of concerns so I guess my question is, would the minister indicate whether or not he is willing to provide me with the most recent copy of those bridge inspections?
MR. RUSSELL: Yes, I would be pleased to have staff forward the copy of the inspections. I don't know Clare all that well, but I think one of these bridges - and it's a steel truss bridge, I believe. I don't know what the other one is. I can also check the program, Madam Chairman, to see if that bridge is on the first replacement list that we have.
MR. GAUDET: Moving on, I would like to ask the minister for an update on two overpasses that were announced about two years ago by the federal and provincial government. These two overpasses, they are both in Digby County. One is located in Smiths Cove and the other one is in Salmon River. Could the minister indicate when work will begin on these two projects?
MR. RUSSELL: Madam Chairman, I think the honourable member probably knows the answer to this question but it always helps some to ask the question and see what the minister says, if it's at variance with what the person believes. These particular at-level crossings are part of the agreement CSIF I, which we have with the federal government, which the federal government has agreed to but has yet to sign. In consequence, we are not
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doing anything on those particular intersections with the exception of acquiring land where it has been necessary, et cetera. We expect that the CSIF I agreement and the CSIF II agreement, which is a further extension of Highway No. 101 and some other work on Highway No. 104, et cetera, will be rolled into one agreement and will be signed in the Fall of this year. However, in the interim, we do expect to get approval to begin some of the work under CSIF I.
Now if I've confused the honourable member entirely with that rambling description of where we are, I can assure him that I'm also a little confused because that agreement has been around, as the honourable member is well aware, for at least two years now, I would guess. I think it was January 2003 that the agreement was first reached; however, we have been unable to sign it due to various impediments along the way. In fact, I have been advised that the Treasury Board will not be meeting after the meeting on June 1st and CSIF I is not on the table for that particular meeting of the Treasury Board - that's federal government - so therefore the CSIF I will not be signed until the Fall. I'm sort of advised that what they will do is roll CSIF I and CSIF II together and won't have two agreements to work on.
MR. GAUDET: Madam Chairman, it wasn't a trick question. I'm aware, as the minister indicated, the department is in the process of acquiring land and has been for the past year. As I understood - and the question that had been brought to my attention was, of course, the expectations last Summer - the work was going to begin. Unfortunately, last Summer there was no work except just clearing some land and again heading into this Summer and especially this working season, the same questions have risen again. I'm glad that the minister indicated that the waiting game is still on. I hope that those agreements will be signed and the work will begin.
As the minister is aware, those two communities - especially Smiths Cove and Salmon River - those residents who have gone through those intersections for many years are certainly welcoming those new overpasses, hopefully to be built soon.
The last series of questions deal with the minister's capital funding for our roads. My first question is, does the department have an allocation for capital funding per county, per riding, per region, how this capital funding is spent on our roads? Could the minister indicate how this capital funding is divided up?
MR. RUSSELL: There is not an allocation, per se, per riding or per district with the TCA capital. With regard to RIM, there is an allocation made to each of the districts and it's based on the number of kilometres of roads and the amount of traffic in those particular districts. With the capital program itself, Madam Chairman, it's based on the districts forwarding in their priority lists and the department analyzing the priorities, and the evidence of traffic volume and the state of the road generally, before making a decision to allocate capital funding for that particular project. There isn't, per se, a set amount that goes out to each district for capital.
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MR. GAUDET: Madam Chairman, I'm trying to get a little more information on this priority list. Who decides what road gets on the priority list? Do staff or does the department try to spread that funding equally throughout the region or the district? I'm trying to get some answers, because I've been asked why one area gets more funding than another and when you look at information that has been tabled here in the House previously, of course there are areas that receive more funding than others. My question to the minister is, is the department planning to do any repaving or any paving in Clare this coming year?
MR. RUSSELL: Madam Chairman, the capital program funding hasn't all been allocated as yet by any means. I think we are at about 50 per cent. We are at 50 per cent only and I'm sure the honourable member is aware of the situation in Ottawa which also may change later this week. That also has an effect on the $30 million which we have additional capital for the Department of Transportation and Public Works in fiscal 2005-06. I'm quite confident that that money will be forthcoming. However, there are many twists and turns to the process that they have in Ottawa before money actually flows out to the provinces to spend.
With regard to what we have in mind for Clare, I don't have it at my fingertips but I can certainly get the list for the honourable member and I can assure him that we tried, I believe within the department, to distribute, as well as we can, something that is fair to every district across the province.
Some years, Madam Chairman, members get a very large share. I noticed the honourable member for Hants East looking at me from across the way with a smile on his face. I know that in 2003-04 there was $10 million spent in that honourable member's riding, which is a colossal amount of money. I know that because I'm his neighbour, I'm the Minister of Transportation and Public Works, and I believe there was about $3 million spent in my riding that year. It varies from year to year, and I don't think you can just take a moment in time and say it's unfair, you have to look at the whole picture over a number of seasons.
MR. GAUDET: Madam Chairman, some of my colleagues on this side are hopeful that their turn may come up. My final question to the minister, the minister has tabled the tender list for 2003 for awards and calls, I'm just wondering if the minister is willing to table the list for 2004 on the tenders that were called in the last year. So would the minister undertake to table that information once that information becomes available? With that, my colleague (Interruptions)
Pardon me, Madam Chairman, I was asking the minister if he would table the list of tenders that were awarded in the year 2004. That information was provided for the previous year, 2003. Would the minister undertake to provide the House with a copy of the tender list for the past year?
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MR. RUSSELL: Quick answer, certainly. I didn't think that they were ready, but I've been assured that they are ready for tabling.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Kings West.
MR. LEO GLAVINE: Madam Chairman, I was going to start off with the West Black Rock Road, but my colleague from Pictou got a little bit ahead of me, so I guess we have an update on that area. I just really wanted to bring to the minister, I'm sure, three areas that he has probably heard some talk about, three that have probably brought the most questions to my office. One of them is the Aylesford Road, which is between Trunk 10 and Trunk 12. It's a road that certainly hasn't received much attention for about 25 years, and invoked a strong community meeting this year. Many things were pointed out, of course, about the condition of that road. In fact, most were geared around safety and certainly, as well, the cost impact of the users of that section of the road.
At one time it was used extensively by Michelin as one of the roads that they would take their product, from the Bridgewater plant to the Waterville plant. That road is now no longer in a condition that will allow those tractor-trailers to go through there. It is a road used extensively by logging trucks, the movement of Christmas trees in the Fall of the year, and of course an area that has grown substantially in population over the last 5 to 10 years as people now live year-round around the lakes.
[3:30 p.m.]
We know that there has been an announcement on the North River Road which, again, is an important section adjoining the Aylesford Road as an area that can shorten the distance to get to Kentville, and especially the hospital services and so on in that area. It's also an area that has a helicopter pad in the Lake Paul area. Residents have pointed out on occasion that the biggest problem was getting the ambulance over the road to the helicopter site, especially during Winter months, and of course Spring months when it's at its worst.
This year, in fact, signs were erected showing just how bad things were, and it basically pointed out, "Rough section next 30 kilometres". So the entire road is certainly in need of an upgrade. I was wondering if the minister could comment on hopeful plans for that section of road, which I know can also reduce the impact on Routes 10 and 12, if the Aylesford Road were actually in a much better state.
MR. RUSSELL: Madam Chairman, I know the Aylesford Road quite well. When I was at Greenwood, I used to use it a lot. What I can do, on both the Aylesford Road and the North River Road, is get a status report prepared and forwarded to the honourable member. I know those two roads do rank high on the priority list. I can't guarantee that they'll be done this year, but I'll have a status report and find out where they stand. I would imagine that something can be done, if not under the capital program, perhaps under RIM.
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The Aylesford Road, if I remember correctly, is now quite a low-volume road, and that sometimes is a negative remark about getting a road high on the priority list. But I'll certainly get the information for the honourable member.
MR. GLAVINE: Just to actually point out, a little bit to the contrary, Mr. Minister, I entered a petition here, and the residents didn't go too far afield to get names for that petition. It had 670 names on it. Now, of course, around East Dalhousie and the lake system, population has grown with year-round residents. It's also an important area that's used year-round at Hardwood Lake by the Girl Guides of the province. Certainly the Lake Paul area, Lake Paul itself, plus Owl Lake, Aylesford Lake, Lake George and that area, have now seen a considerable increase in the number of year-round residents.
Mr. Minister, in fact it's interesting, probably if you were to go out there now - and I know attending the Lake Paul meeting, which had 50 to 60 people at it, there were a number of ex-military people who have moved out into that area. They started off with a cottage, and now that they've retired, they have winterized these places. Of course they have beautiful homesteads around the lake. So it is an area that certainly the residents are hoping to get some attention to their section of road.
I think it's my understanding, Madam Chairman, perhaps I'm actually closing debate. I think our time is up. I thank the minister for his one response.
MR. RUSSELL: Madam Chairman, I'd like to thank my colleagues in the House for the examination of my estimates, and for those who I promised to get information, you will have it in the next few days. I would like to thank my staff, in particular the two gentlemen with me here. The one on my right is a gentleman who will not be here next year and, Martin, I'm sure every member of the Legislature is going to wish you well. (Applause) Mr. Penny, who looks after the pennies, will certainly be here next year. Again, thank you very much. With that, I will close my remarks.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E32 stand?
Resolution E32 stands.
Resolution E43 - Resolved, that the business plan of Sydney Environmental Resources Ltd./Sydney Steel Corporation be approved.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E43 carry?
Resolution E43 is carried.
The honourable Government House Leader.
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HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Madam Chairman, would you please call the estimates of the Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage, Resolution E31.
Resolution E31 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $42,383,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage, pursuant to the Estimate and the business plan of the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia be approved.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: The honourable Minister of Tourism, Culture and Heritage.
HON. RODNEY MACDONALD: Madam Chairman, before beginning my remarks - I'll have different folks with me here today - I'll introduce the folks who are with me now: Kelliann Dean, Deputy Minister of Tourism, Culture and Heritage; as well as Joyce McDonald, Director of Financial Services. I have others as well with regard to Health Promotion and Immigration, and as they come down to the floor, I will introduce them at the appropriate time.
Madam Chairman, the programs and services of the Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage touch the lives of Nova Scotians from one end of our province to the other, either directly or indirectly. The department's service is shaped by the recognition that we certainly focus on the rich heritage that we have, the beautiful landscape which we have, the diversity of cultures and, indeed, what we can offer to that diversity of life that we so much cherish here in our province. These are key elements promoted by our Brand Nova Scotia, as well, Come to Life.
The department takes the key attributes of Brand Nova Scotia, in particular the coastal, accessible, safe, genuine, dependable, creative and innovative, and instills them into focused activities to stimulate economic growth and export development. Economic growth, stewardship, governance and accountability are the three main outcomes of the department's 2005-06 business plan.
The department's economic efforts will focus on improving Nova Scotia's competitive position in the tourism, culture and heritage sectors. We will continue, Madam Chairman, our stewardship role by preserving and sustaining and promoting our unique natural and cultural heritage to a diverse audience of all ages. To ensure financial responsibility, accountability and good internal management, we will adhere to informed decision making, while also ensuring effective third-party governance and accountability.
Madam Chairman, the base budget for the department this fiscal year is $42.383 million. This has increased 3 per cent over the previous year. I'll focus on each of those respective areas. In tourism, Nova Scotia continues to compete globally for a market share and recognizes the need to offer new, exciting tourism experiences to our visitors, and at the same time we are competitors with many jurisdictions. We also partner with many
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jurisdictions, be it our Atlantic Canada partners or even across the country and across the globe.
Specific efforts in 2005-06 include aggressive marketing in important markets like Ontario, Atlantic Canada, Quebec, Europe and, of course, the United States as well. Improving some of our best-known tourism products, be it the Cabot Trail or Peggys Cove, which I might add we were very pleased to see an investment in earlier this week. We're working in partnership with the tourism industry, be it the Tourism Partnership Council, which certainly is a group we depend on heavily with respect to the marketing and product development opportunities which we take advantage of, as well as TIANS, the industry association for Nova Scotia.
An additional one-time investment of $10 million during the last part of the fiscal year is already hard at work in many of those areas, in marketing, product development and regional tourism. The impact of that money is one which we'll feel in the short term, but more importantly we're going to feel that presence of those investments in the long term. I think that's really what we all want to see, as legislators and as Nova Scotians.
We have invested an additional $4 million to develop the most extensive marketing campaign Nova Scotia's tourism industry has ever developed, and will help to attract more visitors and help to boost tourism revenues. The total value of our marketing efforts increased to $7.7 million. We have invested an extra $0.5 million for the province's seven regional tourism industry associations to help them promote their local areas. Madam Chairman, I know, having met them on a number of occasions - last Summer, in the Fall, again a few months ago when we made the announcement - this was an area where our regional tourism associations felt that they needed help, be it with our visitor servicing or be it on destination marketing in our local areas.
We have invested $1.3 million in TIANS, also, to help administer marketing efforts targeting north, east and west. We have invested $600,000 in the Halifax International Airport Authority to help increase air capacity out of European markets, especially the United Kingdom and Germany. Air capacity is one of the most important aspects for us in tourism when it comes to attracting visitors here. It's one thing to spend the dollars marketing but, indeed, you need the flights coming, be it from Germany or be it from another part of the world. That is where the links between transportation and tourism are so vital.
Madam Chairman, we have also invested $1.1 million in the Joggins Fossil Cliffs to help develop them into a world-class tourism product. The fossil cliffs have been identified for possible designation as a UNESCO World Heritage Site, again showing the collaboration between ourselves and the Departments of Natural Resources and Economic Development, all focusing on that important investment together. Of course, the people in that area, in Cumberland, and CREDA, the economic development association, very much focused on
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that, because we see the benefits in places like Lunenburg, where that can help to generate more tourism traffic, not in the short term but over the long term.
We have invested more than $2.1 million to improve the experience of visiting Nova Scotia. These projects include, as I mentioned, Peggys Cove; improving viewscapes along the Cabot Trail; developing birding sites, that was down in the Shelburne area; developing the Glooscap Interpretive Centre, of course that was announced a couple of weeks ago by my colleague, the honourable Minister of Education; upgrading snowmobile trails; and focusing, first of all, in the Victoria and Inverness Counties, but certainly seeing that as a pilot and seeing that grow into other opportunities, be it in Cumberland County or other parts of the province. Again, in that geographic area, there were many organizations on Cape Breton Island and eastern Nova Scotia.
Also, the new cruise ship pavilion, Madam Chairman, and certainly the big fiddle in the cruise ship pavilion is a sight to see. I encourage all members to take the opportunity to go see that, because it is an icon that when somebody comes off the cruise ship, they will not forget. I think it is something that certainly will help them remember their visit.
[3:45 p.m.]
Government is investing with confidence in the tourism industry so it will continue to be an economic generator and a competitive player in a global industry. This is a timely and significant investment, which clearly demonstrates the important partnerships that I already mentioned. Working with Nova Scotia's industry, government, the Tourism Partnership Council, significant private sector investment, the development and marketing of the province is also being leveraged. So when you see a project like, as we had mentioned, for example, the snowmobile project, that was much greater than just the Province of Nova Scotia investing in it, that included money from the federal government, Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation, it included a great deal of investment, not only in dollars but in time and effort from those local snowmobile clubs as well.
Tourism Nova Scotia is a $1.3 billion business, it's a big business. There are over 34,000 people working in the business, and it brings revenue provincially, it brings revenue municipally, and it brings revenue to the federal government as well, and it's easy to see why we would support it.
Madam Chairman, Nova Scotia's culture sector continues to gain more prominence, and I can tell you, although we tend not to get a lot of questions in the House about culture, I feel very strongly about the importance of the culture sector and the influence it has on our tourism product here in our province. We support professional artists using peer assessment processes, through various programs, and we work with partners to strengthen community cultural skills, knowledge, heighten the quality of diversity of activities, and increase access
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to cultural resources and activities. It is also increasing awareness of cultural industries, which are export-focused and enjoy international and national attention.
Madam Chairman, there are many programs which I encourage all MLAs to take a look at, be it cultural activities, be it cultural industries, be it a focus perhaps on individual artists. There are many opportunities for many individuals in your particular constituencies that they could take advantage of, be it a community group that's putting on a concert or be it another group that wants to put on workshops. There is tremendous opportunity with many deadlines, and it might be $2,000 or $3,000, but it might be $10,000. I know many of my colleagues here have either met with staff or shown an interest in those particular programs. Certainly I think that it sees that money go across the province.
Specific efforts will include, this year, continuing to focus on our music strategy, which was done in association with MIANS, the Music Industry Association. The strategy focuses on both the up-and-coming artists, the emerging artists, musicians, which is focused through our department, as well as those who are established and have gotten to that next level and they are working through the Music Industry Association. Those partnerships are important because, Madam Chairman, we work on things together, such as making investments in the recent Bringin' It Home Tour. The Bringin' It Home Tour, although in just its second year - last year a pilot - I believe it has almost doubled the number of seats sold this year, and we expect that to continue.
Madam Chairman, in partnership with the communities, the department will invest $5.6 million in cultural activities and organizations in order to increase opportunities that Nova Scotians have to share cultural resources and experiences with cultural life, be it for Gaelic initiatives, as this is Gaelic Awareness Month, as I'm sure we are all aware of in the Legislature.
Madam Chairman, as well, Heritage is one of the most important roles that we play as a department with a collection of over 800,000 artifacts and more than 200 heritage buildings, many of those at Sherbrooke Village. The budget for Heritage this year is $10.5 million, a 13 per cent increase. Part of that increase includes $650,000, as the operation of the Bluenose II was transferred from the Tourism division over to the Heritage division. I'm sure my colleagues will have questions about the Tourism budget, but that is one of the areas where you would see a difference. I'm sure that question will come up. As you know, the Bluenose II will be operated this year by the Lunenburg Marine Museum Society, which also operates the Fisheries Museum of the Atlantic, and is one of our 27 Nova Scotia museums.
Our out-of-province visitors and residents continue to experience Nova Scotia's sights around the province, and we have tried to focus, over the last number of years, on the Web site, because it really is the opportunity for people within Nova Scotia, young people in our schools and people of all ages, to visit sites without actually having to visit the site. So the Virtual Museum is going to become that much more important in the months and
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years ahead. The Virtual Museums are growing rapidly, from 2.4 million visits in 2003-04 to 2.7 million in 2004-05, a significant difference if you look back six to seven years ago.
Madam Chairman, one of the processes we're very excited about in Heritage is moving forward on the Heritage Strategy. The Heritage Strategy is a partnership between the Federation of Nova Scotian Heritage and the Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage. The federation will play a key role in the project, which will be facilitated by a Voluntary Planning public consultation process. The ultimate results, as I mentioned in my resolution earlier today, is to get that multi-year plan put forward for Heritage to take a look at many of the aspects which members bring up here, be it for the heritage buildings, the conservation of heritage buildings on the outside of the buildings - I know the member for Victoria-The Lakes expressed interest in what happens within buildings - or be it for our other heritage resources that we have in our province. I encourage everyone to get involved in that planning process.
The Nova Scotia Archives continues to make the province's rich archival resources available on-line, and the Archives promotes worldwide access to these resources, via the Internet - again, the Internet becoming that much more important - and making the operation a significant resource for heritage, tourism, genealogy, lifelong learning and education curriculum development. These on-line resources attract over 750,000 visitors a year, and more resources will go on-line this year. I encourage my colleagues to take a look at what NSARM - Nova Scotia Archives - is doing, because they fill a very important part of what we're attempting to do as a province, and that is to not only showcase the culture, the heritage and the history that we have to offer, but indeed they're tied to - be it through African Nova Scotian Affairs and partnerships there, be it for communities of interest, be it for organizations of interest.
Madam Chairman, the department is very fortunate to have a very professional and very motivated staff, and I appreciate their hard work and enthusiasm, because they care deeply about the work that they do and they have to, because they are the ones out promoting Nova Scotia. A good example of that is the Travel & Leisure Show a few weeks ago. We had an opportunity on Live at 5, I believe it was, when they had a segment with Liz Rigney, seven to eight minutes, and I'll send a copy over to my critics, because it gives an idea of what is happening and what we are doing.
Madam Chairman, I'll also be speaking, of course, to Health Promotion. I'll try to watch how long I go on my comments, because I know that my colleagues have questions, but I feel it's important to get these aspects on the record. Health Promotion is really focusing on improving the health of Nova Scotians. We were created a couple of years ago, through the Premier. It's focused on approaches to prevention, which will contribute best to the health and wellness for Nova Scotians in the future.
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Now, the Minister of Health often says it's my job to put him out of a job, and there has been a lot of discussion on the costs of health in this House lately. Certainly I think no better investment can be made than in health promotion and in the long-term health and well-being of our citizens. Our mandate is to create and support the policies and environments that will help Nova Scotians make healthy choices in their lives, to eat better, become more physically active, be less susceptible to injury and disease, and to reduce the risk of becoming addicted to tobacco, alcohol or gambling.
At the forefront of this year's new investments are children and youth. I've said time and time again that, Madam Chairman, if we can get our young people to adopt healthy lifestyles now, they will more likely become healthy adults. So this year we're making a significant investment, once again, in Health Promotion as part of our commitment to double the budget. Now I'm very fortunate to be representing the Office of Health Promotion where we're seeing that increased investment and knowing we're getting that increased investment, which is a strong commitment, I believe, of the province to make.
In physical activity, we conducted research in 2001-02, and we're going to be hearing more about that over the course of the next number of months. That research was to measure the physical activity levels of our young people, at Grades 3, 5, 7 and 11. Now what the results told us was that the youth in our province are not active enough to see those healthy results which we need drastically to see. We found that almost all the Grade 3 students, 90 per cent, do achieve the recommended amount of physical activity, 60 minutes at least five days a week, but then it starts paring off. In Grade 7 it starts going down, Grade 11 students do not. In fact, by the time students reach Grade 11, only 12 per cent of boys and 7 per cent of girls are active enough to achieve health benefits.
Madam Chairman, it is unacceptable, and the only way we're going to get at it is a focus in our schools, is a focus in our homes, and is a focus in our workplaces. Based on those results, we launched what was called the Active Kids, Healthy Kids strategy in October 2002. It's a provincial physical activity strategy for children, youth and our families. With new funding this year, we're going to repeat those results and that research to see what progress we're making or to see what progress we're not making, depending on the particular area. That collection of data is going to help us when we move forward in our plans for healthy eating, for physical activity, to give us a more complete picture, because, like anything in government, we need to do the appropriate research, we need to have the appropriate statistical information to make sure the money we're investing is going to good use.
This year we've invested $1 million to help families with the cost of registering their kids in sports and physical recreation, everything from dance, which I can tell you I'm a big fan of - all kinds of dance - to soccer. I know you're a big fan of dance too, Mr. Chairman, and music as well. Parents or guardians can claim up to $150 on their taxes, and I think that was a good step forward, perhaps a step which I think we need to be more aggressive on in
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the years ahead; nevertheless, a good start and a commitment that we did make. As my colleague, the Finance Minister, said, it is, admittedly, a first step, but the most important thing is that we have gotten the mechanism in place to recognize what Nova Scotians do and encourage them to become more active.
Mr. Chairman, another initiative is the investment of physical activity grants. Over $500,000 was invested across Nova Scotia, everywhere from northern Cape Breton to Yarmouth and all points in between. Certainly there are many examples of organizations that took the opportunity to start new programs to get people of all ages active, and that is what that investment is all about.
We're increasing the capacity in communities in another way as well, thanks to a bilateral agreement with Sport Canada and the federal government. We have signed a $1.1 million bilateral agreement with Sport Nova Scotia, as well, as part of the mix. My colleague from the Department of Education is very much involved in this bilateral as well. To hire sport animators, $1.1 million, to get them out across the province - and that will be happening over the Summer - and we have our provincial coordinator in place. These sport animators will be there to bridge that gap between communities and schools, because there is a gap there we need to address.
Mr. Chairman, according to our own research, 20 per cent of youth in Grades 3 and 7 are overweight. Again, that is a problem. We decided to focus initial work on healthy eating in a school setting. We're working with many partners to see that put forward. The budget this year sees significant investments in that area, between ourselves and of course the Department of Education as well. On April 18th, I joined the Premier to announce $345,000 - new dollars - in funding for school boards to partner with health care leaders in their schools in providing healthy choices and physical activity opportunities for students. We've also provided funding for each district health authority to hire an additional public health nutritionist, who among other roles may be involved in approving children's healthy eating habits.
Now, Mr. Chairman, the food and nutrition policy framework for schools will be implemented this year. Based on information we've learned from school board program directors and principals about their current situations, it was important that we did the research on what's happening across the province, what's happening at each school board, what are the challenges, what's happening across the country, and we also took a look at that information, as well. It's going to address many of the services that are offered, school food services, including cafeterias, the types of food, beverages being sold in vending machines, and school-based feeding programs. We will support schools in implementing change, be it through the breakfast programs or be it through other incentives to see them start eating healthier.
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[4:00 p.m.]
I think we can all do that as legislators, showing Nova Scotians - and I know there are many examples in here, I don't want to pick any members out, but from all sides, who are active, be it out walking more or be it eating healthier. I encourage even the staff to do the same, because I think we all know that the more time we spend in here, very often we tend to not get the exercise that we would all like to have. (Interruptions) The member suggests a half-hour break each day, well, there are all kinds of creative things we could do.
Our area of work that, without a doubt, gets the most media and public attention, obviously, in the last few months, has been that of problem gambling. Our addiction prevention priority area addresses drugs, alcohol and gambling, because people who have one addiction very often have cross-addictions. I've mentioned that on many occasions. The prevention services in communities can readily address similar issues. Mr. Chairman, across government and across this province, everyone's goal is to reduce the prevalence of problem gambling. Prevention is the best way to limit the number of problem gamblers in the future. Prevention does not only mean education and awareness, it means anything that averts a problem, including the changes that we are making to VLTs. I certainly commend the Minister of Finance, who is responsible for the Gaming Corporation, for the partnership in the Gaming Strategy that we have moved forward on.
Treatment is the only way to help those who are already affected by problem gambling and who have an addiction, Mr. Chairman. But certainly those at risk are very important as we target measures to be put in place. We've introduced the Gaming Strategy, which includes seven areas that are our responsibility to address. Perhaps most significant for us at Health Promotion is an additional $3 million for prevention and treatment. This is on top of the existing resources that support 38 treatment locations, the more than 360 staff in the districts, and the five full-time gaming specialists, and the toll-free, 24-hour, problem-gambling help line. The problem-gambling help line is not just a 1-800 number that you call and talk to anyone, you're talking to trained specialists who certainly have the training necessary to deal with the issues that they do have to deal with, very serious issues, on a day-to-day basis.
Because of this new strategy, Mr. Chairman, we will be second in Canada in the amount of money allocated per capita for prevention and treatment of problem gambling for all ages. I can tell you I've heard some very good comments from across the country, and if I have an opportunity during questions today, I'll perhaps relate a couple of those, if I can find them. We're very pleased with what has been happening.
Tobacco control, Mr. Chairman, is the most established among our six priority areas, and I believe we're seeing some success. Our tobacco control strategy, launched in October 2001, is tackling tobacco use from every angle. I certainly commend the work of my colleague, the now-Minister of Education, when he was Minister of Health, in releasing that.
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A few months after he released that in 2001 - I guess it was in December 2002, just before the Smoke-free Places Act - I had the pleasure of beginning that process.
Certainly I think it was because of the work with my colleague that that strategy has been so successful, seeing a drop from 30 per cent of Nova Scotians having an addiction to tobacco and smoking to 22 per cent, and it continues to drop. That is because it's very focused and very diverse, in the nature of the strategy, in the way it has targeted, be it social marketing, be it public policy, be it education awareness, and we continue to partner, be it with Education in our classrooms. We released that in Truro - the Minister of Education would remember the name of the school - at CEC, which I know the member for Truro-Bible Hill is certainly very familiar with. As well, we're working with the leadership we've seen through District Health Authority Nos. 7 and 8 to implement the smoking program, targeted at our homes, as well, on the issue of second-hand smoke.
Mr. Chairman, injury prevention, some of our areas of work receive so much attention, physical activity, problem gambling, healthy eating, but there are major health issues that receive perhaps not as much attention as we'd like to see, and injury prevention is one of them. In the paper on the weekend, you'll see a little section on that. You'll see a huge one page, which was as a result of an investment by Health Promotion, Justice was involved, and the Minister of Transportation and Public Works, as well. That, very much, is geared towards this very issue of injury prevention.
It's an effort that we're going to be taking more opportunities to work with groups like Community Links, which I know the member for Dartmouth South-Portland Valley is very familiar with, because she was involved in that organization before. We need to get at that issue of falls among our seniors, we need to get to those issues of helmets for our youth, and we need a comprehensive strategy around that. We don't want to be doing just one option, we want to do that as a comprehensive package.
Mr. Chairman, 95 per cent of injuries are predictable and preventable, and they cost our province $570 million each year. About 450 Nova Scotians die each year as a result of injury, and 6,000 are hospitalized. Now we're beginning to address that major health issue. An additional investment of $180,000 will be dispersed in a variety of areas through injury prevention. The new funding will be to work in those three priority areas of motor vehicle collisions, falls among seniors and addressing the issue of suicide. I know that has also come up in the House. We're investing in surveillance so that we can make informed decisions and take appropriate action to address injury in a systematic and evidence-based manner.
The last aspect I will touch upon is that of Immigration. Mr. Chairman, I'm proud to be the first Nova Scotian minister to bring forward an Immigration budget for debate. Having a dedicated budget gives our immigration partners a clear picture of our investment, year to year, and it will serve to be an important accountability measure for government. As well, our budget will support our efforts to reach our goals outlined in our multi-year immigration
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strategy, released by the Premier earlier this year. We want to double the number of immigrants coming into our province, and we want those who come to our province to feel welcome, to feel at home, to feel that they are part of a community, because it is obvious that not only do immigrants coming to Nova Scotia have a great deal to learn about Nova Scotia, but we have a great deal, as Nova Scotians, to learn about new Nova Scotians who are coming here.
Our goal is for at least 70 per cent of our new immigrants who move here, to stay here. That number, right now, of retention is only 40 per cent. It's a number which we have to significantly increase. We see about 1,500 immigrants at present, Mr. Chairman. The total budget for the office is more than $2.7 million. Almost $1.4 million of this total will directly support immigrants with grants to settlement associations and others who provide services for immigrants, and this is more than double what was provided through grants last year. That includes groups such as MISA, the Metropolitan Immigrant Settlement Association. If you haven't had the opportunity, I encourage my colleagues to see the valuable work they're doing, be it on ESL training or French as a second language training, or the services they are providing for settlement services which are vital.
Our long-term success in building a more diverse province will come from supporting our immigrant children, as well. That's why our grant funding includes, for the first time, $250,000 dedicated to language training in schools, on which we'll be partnering with the Department of Education and school boards. This is on top of the money that the Department of Education also has, I believe it's $100,000, which represents eight-twelfths of the school year, starting this coming school year.
The remainder of the budget will benefit immigrants, as well. We can now hire the staff to work with our immigration partners to plan more effectively for what services are needed and how they can best be delivered. Let me give you some examples, Mr. Chairman. Our immigration strategy is province-wide, and again we want newcomers to recognize the benefits of living in all corners of our province. We're working with municipalities, we're working with regional development authorities, because these groups are in the best position to identify the needs and strategies which will affect them.
I was at the Nova Scotia Chamber of Commerce meeting on the weekend, and one of their sessions that they had was with regard to immigration. There's an obvious recognition, there's an obvious interest in the business community across our province in what is happening. They see, perhaps in their particular community, be it in Guysborough or be it in Cape Breton or be it in the South Shore or be it in Halifax, a decreasing number in our schools, and we see many of our, especially rural, communities getting smaller. We need to address that.
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In fact, Mr. Chairman, during the past week alone, the office's executive director, Elizabeth Mills who will be down after a bit, met with many groups in Liverpool, including the mayor, a former member of this House, Mr. John Leefe; municipal council; RDAs; school board employees; and an inter-denominational church representative, to work together on a plan. It's very much focused on a partnership, because they recognize the challenges which they face. To accomplish this, they recognize that they need to take a family approach. For example, they will help families find services their children need.
At times, as the member from the New Waterford area full well knows, when a new immigrant comes to Nova Scotia, we often think of this grandiose thing which we need to give them, well, very often they want to be welcomed, they want to get to know people in the community, they want to know where the local school is, they want to know where the local church is - should they wish that - they want to know where their child can sign up to play on the baseball team or the football team, or they want to know how to get a licence in Nova Scotia.
These are some of the basics, which we take for granted, but for a new immigrant, coming to a new country, perhaps learning a new language, it is essential that we work with them on this very issue, and ensure that it's not just a metro focus, because obviously 80 per cent of our immigrants currently are coming to metro, but that that's spread across the province. We're working with organizations like MISA to accomplish that.
Mr. Chairman, on the broader scale, we're working with regional development authorities to draft policies, criteria and an accountability framework and other information on the community-identified category of our Nova Scotia Nominee Program. The Nova Scotia Nominee Program is that program which has been done in collaboration with the federal government. It has three different streams. That framework for our regional development authorities is essential, because they need to know the appropriate process so that all RDAs and all local communities are following a step-by-step process in fairness to them. This month we'll consult with the RDAs on the draft of that, and once their input is considered, they can use the final document to attract immigrants who best match their community needs.
Mr. Chairman, this is just part of the critical work plan that the new office must do. Most directly related to budget, we have work that must occur before the grants are awarded. I don't think anyone in this House would want the Office of Immigration to simply go out and spend money, and I don't think that's the proper approach. We need to get the staff in place, we need to have - right now we're at the Maritime Centre, on the 15th floor - a full-time place so people know where to go, and we need to have staff in place so that we can achieve the results we want. I've said it before, it would be irresponsible to do anything less than that. We did the same thing with Health Promotion. I believe it's the right thing to do, and I would rather take my time and see the office take its time to get the job done right.
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Mr. Chairman, with that, we also have other aspects of the Nominee Program. The program is marketed, as well, to experienced business managers, skilled workers and people who meet specific community needs. Our budget estimates, we will recover $100,000 in fees this year through those programs, through the Nova Scotia Nominee Program, and that number is based on the fee that the province receives multiplied by 200 immigrants, and that's how you get that number.
Mr. Chairman, more than 260 immigrants and their families have been approved to come and live in Nova Scotia, and more than 70 of these families have already moved here. And when you say 70 families, that's 70 times maybe four people. That is a significant number of individuals. Some of these 260 families are still in the process of moving or awaiting the final paperwork. Obviously this takes a lot of process, but they are coming and another 170-plus are in the midst of the application process. When you consider that each immigrant, on average, is part of a family of four, we're talking about 1,000 new immigrants who have been approved to come to Nova Scotia. These numbers show that people are very much interested in coming here, but there is a particular process.
[4:15 p.m.]
Mr. Chairman, what we need to have, as identified in our immigration strategy is not just the streams we have now. We have our economic stream, we have our communities identified. We need to continue enhancing those streams, because immigrants who have come to Nova Scotia have indicated that through the consultation piece, be it for family business, be it for those in our post-secondary institutions, as just a couple of examples. These are areas we're going to be focusing on in the year ahead, again making sure we take the time to do it right.
Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the opportunity to present my comments, and my colleagues and I look forward to the questions. Again, I guess we're starting with Tourism. I would just hope that the members, if we're not starting with Tourism, would let me have ample time to make sure the appropriate staff are down here with me. I asked Tourism to come down, because I thought that Tourism was the start. If I'm wrong, perhaps the members could give me an indication and I could have staff switch. So we're going to start with Health Promotion, as I understand, is that correct? We're going to start with Health Promotion, so perhaps I could get the Health Promotion folks to come down. I'll start answering the questions before they come down.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Dartmouth North.
MR. JERRY PYE: Mr. Chairman, in fairness to the minister, it may not be required that his staff, with respect to Health Promotion and addictions, come down, simply because the minister's portfolio is quite expansive. As a result of that, there are a number of us who carry critic portfolios that fall into the minister's domain. Unfortunately, there's a $6 billion-
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plus overall budget in this province, and we only have 40 hours of estimates to talk about them. I do want to say at the outset that I want to thank my colleagues, the member for Cape Breton Nova and the member for Sackville-Cobequid, for giving me the opportunity to speak to the minister. My comments will be around addictions and addiction treatments, and primarily the Gaming Foundation. It is not necessary, I hope, that you need to bring the individual members down, because time is of the essence for our Party. I just want to make some general comments.
In December 2004, the minister made an announcement that in fact the money from the Gaming Foundation would be removed from the Gaming Foundation and brought into the Ministry of Health Promotion, and that those dollars along with the additional $3 million would be spent in the areas of, primarily around, prevention and treatment. My concern is that there were a number of agencies that made application to the Gaming Foundation for dollars to fund addiction programs. I want to say that my first involvement with the Gaming Foundation was before your portfolio was created, Mr. Minister. The Minister of Health then was Minister Muir. Minister Muir and I sat down with the Freedom Foundation, recognizing the need for additional dollars to treat a new addiction called gaming addiction, as a result of the government getting into the legalized gambling business of video lottery terminals.
Those additional dollars and those dollars that were sent to the Gaming Foundation were in fact dollars that were going to be used and expended in addiction treatment and prevention programs. I felt the Gaming Foundation, which was a stand-alone organization, was in fact the appropriate organization that should address this. Unfortunately, the government of the day, your government today, believes that it should be in the purview of Health Promotion. Your government says the reason for putting that into Health Promotion is because there are cross-addictions.
I want to tell you, Mr. Minister, we were very much aware that there would be the potential for cross-addictions when gambling was legalized in this province. Our concern, and my concern, is, and I've said this before, that the money should not have been extracted from the Gaming Foundation and put into Health Promotion, because I believed there would be a saturation of those dollars, and those dollars would not only be used for the very serious treatment of addiction problems for gamblers, but it would be spread over a period of alcohol addiction, drug addiction, tobacco addiction, a whole host of other addictions, and that this was really money that was specifically designed and intended to be used solely for one purpose, and that was the purpose of gambling addiction.
I know that people who have made application - I should say organizations that have made applications for the addiction treatment are quite concerned. Before they made their application and they received the $60,000, or whatever their application allowed for through the Gaming Foundation, they were advised by a letter that in fact this would no longer be the practice. They would have to go through Health Promotion. The concern is that each of the areas, the districts have directors of addictions, and in this particular area it's Tom Payette,
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and I do know Tom and have known Tom for a number of years. He is one of those individuals I will mention now who knows full well that those organizations will have to make application through the district health authorities and to his appropriate department to seek funding for their gambling addiction programs.
I also want to say, Mr. Chairman, that the minister indicated there are some 38 regional areas - I think that's what he said, I'm sure that's what he said - across the province that address the issues of addictions. I think I'm correct in the minister's statement. The agencies and organizations are now quite concerned that in order for them to get the kind of money they are receiving now, and that they had received through the Gaming Foundation, will mean that they will have to go to every one of those 38 areas and make a request for monies and dollars to top up to the $60,000 that they are now getting. Right now they will be entitled to $15,000.
Mr. Chairman, I need some clarity, and so does the community out there, and I'm talking about agencies such as Marguerite Centre, Alcare and the Freedom Foundation, only to name a few. I need some clarity, and I need the minister to say in these budget estimates that there will be an active avenue for these agencies to make application, and that these applications will be processed, and that the individuals will not lose, at the end of the day, any of those dollars that they receive through the Gaming Foundation. So that's my question to the minister.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, one of the aspects that the member raises is one which has certainly bothered me over the last number of years, which is with respect to the number of dollars which have accumulated over a long length of time through the Gaming Foundation. Really what happened was as a result of those dollars, it meant that we as legislators - I know it was raised here in the Legislature - and we as a new office certainly felt that those dollars weren't being used in the best way they could be used. So that was one part of it.
Because of that we wanted to ensure that those dollars are protected for those with addictions and those with other problems. That's why one aspect of the announcement was to set up that new fund with those dollars. I can't remember the exact amount, but I can get you that number. That's there to ensure that it's there for the long term, and done through our community health boards, that piece of it. So that's going to be phased in, because it takes a while to see the interest from that. That's one part, and those organizations can apply with many other organizations. I know that's not really where the member was going, but that's really why we started the review process.
What we also wanted to ensure was there was still that opportunity for research, that there was still that opportunity for community groups, or groups such as the member mentioned, that they can still make application. They can still make application with certain parameters through the Gaming Foundation. Secondly, they still have the opportunity to go
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through the district health authorities to get funding as well. So they have actually two different options, through the district health authorities or still through the Gaming Foundation with certain parameters.
The Gaming Foundation was never set up with the intention of simply going into areas, as a volunteer board, where we would have that specialty in our district health authorities. That's why there's a certain aspect of those funds being directed to our district health authorities, because they are in the best possible position to make the decisions based on the health needs. Again, there are aspects which are very much focused on that of the problem gambler, but there are also aspects where we recognize, as Health Promotion, where people have cross-addictions, and a population health model. We want to get these individuals before they perhaps get too far down the road. If you see someone who has a problem with VLTs, very often they do have a problem with drinking or smoking or whatever it might be.
We want to provide some flexibility to local communities with respect to that. I certainly understand the member's concern with respect to that, but I can assure him that those organizations have the opportunity to go through the DHAs and still, with certain parameters, go through the Gaming Foundation.
MR. PYE: Mr. Chairman, if we were all listening, we just simply heard exactly the process. Unfortunately that process is time-consuming, and it takes away from those agencies and organizations delivering the treatment programs that they need to provide to those individuals with addictions. Once they could make an application to the Gaming Foundation and receive the total amount of $60,000 or whatever their application might be. The minister and I, you and I, disagree with respect to why the Gaming Foundation didn't function the way it normally should have functioned; nonetheless, what happens is it creates a problem.
Now, the $15,000 that will continue to be allocated to those agencies and organizations through the Gaming Foundation is but one small part of their program. They then will have to make an application through the district health authorities to top up that remaining $45,000 that is needed, and they will then have to come to the Office of Health Promotion, another government department, to seek whatever monies might be available to them, if any, through the Department of Health Promotion.
Now, the Health Promotion Minister says, well, no, they may not come through me, but the Minister of Heath Promotion might be responsible for preventive programs. Those preventive programs might be programs that are within the purview of the addiction treatment facilities, as well. So there is the potential for the minister's department to be involved. Some of that might be for prevention programs that are offered in-house to the addiction programs.
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Mr. Minister, don't shake your head and say no, that may not be, there is the potential for them to come through your department, as well. Once again, I want to say prevention programs that might be established in-house to those addiction centres as well, there is that avenue. I want to say to you what has been created is a time-consuming venture for those agencies and organizations. As I said, they no longer will be able to make that direct application to the Gaming Foundation. So what I'm saying to you, Mr. Minister, is can you give me and the agencies and organizations assurances, and Nova Scotians who are watching here today, that the process in which they can make application will be an easy, transparent process and one that will bring the dollars in that they have been accustomed to to deliver addiction treatments in this province?
Secondly, I take your message with respect to Health delivering qualified addiction treatment officers. Nonetheless, we do not even know if in fact that's going to be additional dollars. However, I agree, that, in a sense, is out of your purview. Nonetheless, as I'm told, the Office of Health Promotion and the Ministry of Health are one and the same, that there is a complementary venture by both of them to deliver programs and services to addictions people in Nova Scotia.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I certainly do appreciate where the member is coming from. I think the last thing we want, for any organization coming to government, is to make the process more difficult, but at the same time we also want to make sure that the money that's being spent is getting to the individuals in the most appropriate manner that can best benefit those who have the need. Although I appreciate the member's concern, and it's certainly something we'll be monitoring to make sure it doesn't become a system which is too convoluted, there's still the opportunity - I was just saying, through you, Mr. Chairman, that I want to make sure that the system doesn't become too convoluted. So it's something we will be monitoring on an ongoing basis.
[4:30 p.m.]
Sure, Mr. Chairman, there may be changes we'll make in a year's time or in a year and a half's time, if we see that process not working. But the opportunities are there for those organizations, again, still through the Gaming Foundation, through the district health authorities and through the community health boards when that interest continues to be generated. So there are going to be additional opportunities for them to make application for money.
If the district health authority recognizes this organization as providing a vital resource for addiction services in their particular region of the province, then, yes, there'll be an investment made in that particular area. I think the expertise that the district health authority brings, in recognizing and knowing their own particular regions, is something that I think we owe it to them to recognize. Certainly that is the direction we're taking.
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There's also an additional $3 million for treatment and prevention. We announced that when the gaming strategy came out. That's in addition to other dollars being spent there. So there are going to be additional opportunities. At the end of the day, it's not about the government, it's not about the DHAs, it's not about the organizations, my belief is it's about the people who really need the help. I want to ensure that we monitor to make sure that it is in the best interests; if it's not, then we'll make the appropriate changes when the time comes.
MR. PYE: Mr. Minister, I guess what I'll say to you is that there is some consolation in the fact that you have indicated that you will monitor this, and you will monitor it over the next year and a half. I think that time frame is a bit long. I think there needs to be a shorter time frame for monitoring. I would say the fiscal year would be the appropriate time to do some monitoring. If you're going to monitor the performance here, and hopefully you're going to seek input, and you're going to watch those agencies and organizations as this transition unfolds, my hope is that you will involve those agencies and organizations so that they can have input with respect to the new structure that might arise.
I know there has been talk about some models and better models of delivery and programs for persons with addictions, and that some of the agencies and organizations out there might go under a model called the Minnesota Model. You know about those sorts of different models that are out there, and there is some semblance of realizing and recognizing that there needs to be a consistent, uniform plan across the province. I acknowledge that, Mr. Minister, but if you're going to introduce a consistent, uniform program across the province, and you have some sort of model in your mind - I'm sure your department or your ministry does - then I would hope that you're going to involve those agencies and organizations that are now delivering the programs and services to persons with gambling addictions. I'm primarily talking about gambling addictions.
Mr. Minister, if you would make a comment - and I will tell you that this will be my final comment. I could talk about a number of areas within your portfolio, but I certainly don't have the time here, and I do have other colleagues who really want to get at your jugular, as well. So I will just wait and listen (Interruptions) I meant that in a polite way. I obviously know that the former Minister of Health, now the Minister of Education, had his ears perked up and was listening. You have to watch some of those individuals across the floor.
Nonetheless, having said that, I do know there are other colleagues who certainly want to communicate their concerns to you. So if you could just briefly do that, then I would truly appreciate you making a response. In the event that it might have slipped your mind, it was to give me some assurances that the agencies and organizations that are now delivering those programs will be a participant in any new model that might be brought forward.
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MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Certainly, many of the organizations that the member has indicated provide greatly to what we have to offer across the province. What I can assure the member of is that there is a tremendous amount of consultation done with, for instance, our addictions directors. Our addictions directors provide us with a tremendous amount of advice with respect to these issues and we ensure that that consultation takes place.
Mr. Chairman, I think it would be inappropriate for me to say, well, in two or three years' time there is one particular organization in Nova Scotia where nothing will ever change. I can't stand here and guarantee that, I think that would be unfair for me to do. That may be nothing about government, it may be a particular reason having to do with the organization themselves. Those providing the services, I can't see any change in the near future, that I'm aware of. Certainly, as long as we're in government, we'll be working with those various types of groups.
I do know that be it Talbot House, or be it Marguerite Centre, or be it any of those, they all provide very good service to their clients. But, at the same time, we recognize that those with the expertise as well are very much within our district health authorities.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Cape Breton Nova.
MR. GORDON GOSSE: Mr. Chairman, I assure the minister that I won't be going after his jugular, contrary to my colleague, the member for Dartmouth North.
We see many numbers in this budget for Health Promotion initiatives but there is no indication, either in this document or the Office of Health Promotion Business Plan, how much of the Health Promotion 2005-06 budget will be devoted to hiring these important chronic disease prevention coordinators. So what do we learn from reading Page 26 of the Budget Speech? It is that the balance of the increase in the Health Promotion budget will allow for a chronic prevention coordinator in every district health authority. My question to the minister is, how much is being allocated in the 2005-06 budget to the hiring of chronic disease prevention coordinators?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Two things, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I'm glad he's not going after my jugular and secondly, we have $150,000 set aside. Every district health authority will see a chronic disease coordinator this year, although they will be phased in through the year. I would expect that those coordinators will be in place in every DHA by January 1st, probably in the Fall; it may vary somewhat from DHA to DHA. It is a commitment that we made and we didn't make it on the fly. That commitment was made after taking a look at the Chronic Disease Prevention Strategy, where there was a tremendous amount of work done with many individuals, Dalhousie University being the main element in putting forward that strategy. The Office of Health Promotion has used elements of that
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strategy to really enforce what we are as an office, and what we're doing for health promotion.
The chronic disease coordinators will help to bridge that gap between the many elements which affect chronic disease and which truly get at the heart of what we are attempting to do.
MR. GOSSE: On Page 25 of the Budget Speech, the government talks about $360,000 for public health nutritionists. On Page 26 it states, "The balance of the increase in the Office of Health Promotion budget will largely be used . . . " for a nutritionist and chronic disease prevention coordinator. These points indicate two different areas of Health Promotion investment. I'm just wondering if the minister, through you, Mr. Chairman, could indicate when he believes these chronic disease prevention coordinators will be hired.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: I think I picked up the question right but did the member ask when they will be hired? Okay, as I indicated, the chronic disease coordinators - that's what you are asking about - should be later in the Fall. In other words, they won't be in place now but what will happen is as they're hired through the year - and the provincial coordinator is now in place, so that was the first thing we had to do, obviously. That provincial coordinator is now there and will be doing each DHA, but as I mentioned, later in the Fall. They will be in place the full year the year after.
Like anything in a budget process - and I can tell you when I go in front of my Cabinet colleagues, I always like the full amount right away, but I also recognize that we have other pressures. With that recognition, we're very fortunate to be able to hire, and have hired, many staff people in the last few years and through various programs and such, we'll be able to hire more people and see more people hired for various functions. The chronic disease coordinators will be some of those, along with nutritionists and sport animators, and others. You can't hire everybody at once and I think the member recognizes that, but that's the time frame we're looking at.
MR. GOSSE: Also on Page 26, we've learned that a portion of the balance in the Health Promotion budget will be used for the Active Kids, Healthy Kids initiative. I'm well aware of that myself, with a 10-year-old in school, and being active. I'd like to ask the minister to tell this House how much is being allocated in the 2005-06 budget to the Active Kids, Healthy Kids initiative?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: If the member would just give us a moment, we're getting the exact amount for the Active Kids, Healthy Kids strategy. If I remember the number correctly, I believe it was $750,000 a year, but I'll get you that number. The Active Kids, Healthy Kids strategy is taking a look at those aspects of what is happening in our school system, but it's much broader than that. As someone who spent time as a physical educator here in our province - I always say to my son, it's not a gym teacher, it's a physical
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education teacher - what we want our physical education teachers and others to be doing is taking a look at a much broader picture, and very often the daily physical activity and everything will come up in the House here. Daily physical activity is truly what is important. That means the before school programs, the during school programs, the after school programs.
So there are various aspects to Active Kids, Healthy Kids. There is Active Schools, there's Active School Communities, there's Active Communities, there's Active Transportation. For instance, we worked with the Ecology Action Centre on Active Transportation, and so there are many elements to that.
I will get the member the number - the number that is in my head is $750,000 a year, for four years - but the difficulty in answering that question is there is a lot of other money now than there was when we first introduced the strategy. If you take a look at the physical activity grants, there is $500,000 there. If you take a look at the money that we're offering our schools now through healthy eating, through physical activity initiatives, there is new money there. The Active Kids, Healthy Kids is one element of that, but for physical activity it's much broader.
MR. GOSSE: I thank the minister and I know he will get back to me on that answer. According to the 2005-06 Budget Bulletin, "A total of $9.5 million is being invested in the Office of Health Promotion . . . to increase physical activity opportunities for all Nova Scotians." On Page 25 of the Budget Speech, we see that, "The Office of Health Promotion will receive an additional $5.4 million, for a total of $23.9 million." With the $4-and some million difference in the figures, can the Minister of Health Promotion explain which of the two numbers is correct and why are they both being used?
[4:45 p.m.]
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: I appreciate the member's question. I think what's in the Budget Bulletin is indicating the larger number. I think the difference is because the larger number is giving a total number of what was already in the budget, plus the new money that is in the budget, so that's where you're seeing that. They are saying a total amount of this is being invested, and you had the number offhand. I don't have the Budget Bulletin in front of me but that's where you see the difference.
Last year it was $18.5 million, which was the approved estimate and this year it's $23.919 million, just about $24 million, plus there are other dollars on top of that with respect to gaming as well. So it's the $23.9 million plus $3 million which will be coming from the Gaming Corporation with respect to the gaming strategy; that's where the member is seeing the difference.
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MR. GOSSE: I'm glad the minister is willing to explain those numbers, but I'm wondering if he can provide further light on the Office of Health Promotion's budget and what it means for Nova Scotians.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: How long does the member have? There are many aspects to this year's budget and again, like the tobacco strategy where we saw different pieces, the public policy, social marketing and a number of other aspects, that's very much in line with the investments we're making this year. You're seeing an additional - and I'll refer to my colleagues here - $500,000 for social marketing, so that's one piece. You're going to see a lot more media advertisements, a lot more opportunities to showcase what Nova Scotians are doing, and you're seeing that in the weekend papers where we highlight - perhaps in Yarmouth, perhaps in Sydney, perhaps in various places - what some people are doing. It might be snowshoeing in Antigonish and it might be someone who is teaching dance in Halifax or Dartmouth.
You are seeing an additional $2 million in healthy eating and in areas of investment, $750,000 of that is the breakfast program, and there's money for grants and many other aspects of that. Really, that is about getting our young people, and people in general, eating healthier, and that's healthier foods in schools, the nutritionist aspect of that, healthy food choices; grants to school boards, $375,000; the healthy eating strategy, DHA grants to support implementation to community programs, that's $125,000.
We also have a $40,000 increase for healthy sexuality and there is a new half-time physician there and a coordinator's position - that is one of our areas of focus and obviously, the members will be aware of the booklet; chronic disease, $170,000 and that's along with the coordinators; physical activity, be it playground equipment, youth health centres, there are some dollars there; awards and incentives for physical activity; physical education programs; Active Kids, Healthy Kids research, there are a number of different aspects. I don't know if that gives the member an idea, but that's generally where we're going.
MR. GOSSE: That gives me a very good idea and I thank the minister for that answer. Time is short and we're sharing this among our colleagues here and we're going to switch portfolios, so I'm going to ask one more short snapper. Can the minister please inform this House how the Office of Health Promotion is collaborating with other government departments to ensure that Health Promotion initiatives are adopted and considered across government?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: I'll mention a couple of examples. One example would be with the Public Service Commission, a wellness initiative with respect to the Public Service, and that's in collaboration with Justice. We also are working now with Transportation and Public Works on the issue of injury prevention and collisions, along with Justice, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, even in the provincial paper you would have seen on the weekend. You would see us working very closely with Community Services with
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respect to healthy eating and one of the aspects of that is food security, so we're collaborating with Community Services on that. Education, be it tobacco, healthy eating, physical activity, everything from playground equipment - from the playground to the podium. We're working with the Department of Health, obviously through Public Health and Addiction Services and many other aspects. Everything we do, we're trying to ensure that we take that health focus as a government. I think it is key to the decision making.
I'm just about finished my comments and I know that Tourism is coming up next in a moment, so anyway, I hope that answers your question.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Sackville-Cobequid. Is that Health Promotion?
MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): Tourism, Mr. Chairman, but I'm going to make a few comments and unfortunately, we're getting down to the crunch time here and that's one of the reasons why we're switching gears here, we only have approximately an hour and we're trying to cover four critic areas. So just a few comments, and hopefully a few minutes for a couple of questions.
As the Tourism Critic, it's ironic that we hear the government's commitment to tourism here in the province, and they recognize that it's an important economic growth machine for the province, I believe, especially in our rural communities. Some of our smaller communities rely heavily on tourism and the dollars they bring into those small communities. We're all aware of the out-migration of some of the rural communities in this province and the people who are staying in these communities are relying heavily on tourism, and the growth, and the business of tourism in those communities.
What is frustrating for me, as the Tourism, Culture and Heritage Critic, is our Party has definitely heard from many organizations throughout the province and they have many concerns. I know I won't get to all of them today, but I'll briefly state a few of them and hopefully, I'll get some questions to the minister.
One thing is that many of the groups are wondering how committed is the government to the areas of tourism, heritage and culture. I have to refer back to the blue book in 1999, and I'll read it quickly, where they state - and I'll table a copy of that - "The Liberal Government has put tourism on the back burner and has completely failed to recognize the vital contribution that this industry, building on our rich natural and historical resources, can make to jobs in economic development in Nova Scotia." Under their first mandate, they state, "Re-establish the Department of Tourism as a separate department of government whose mandate includes promotion of museums, parks and historic homes." So I commend the government for making that commitment and sticking to it, and creating a stand-alone Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage. But the concern we hear is how committed are they to that?
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The minister now has taken on huge initiatives with the creation of Health Promotion, which I know is a very important portfolio, to hopefully show that a healthier lifestyle is the area where people need to go and hopefully cut down on the costs of health in the long run. But also, just recently, the minister being announced as the new Minister of Immigration. We have a strong and I think important strategy in immigration, so it kind of makes us wonder, and makes a lot of people in the industry wonder, how much time does the minister have to commit to Tourism, Culture and Heritage in this province?
A lot of the concerns are around tourism initiatives in the province, especially around our tourism associations. I know I was with the minister at the news conference recently, with the commitment of $500,000 to the tourism associations throughout this province. I think I remember reading the news release that the government gave where the minister stated they were investing in grassroots, and I'd have to agree with the minister totally with that comment. I think the tourism associations in this province are just that, they're the grassroots of the economy, especially when it pertains to tourism.
These associations throughout the province know what's going on in their areas, they know where we need to invest money - and I know they were grateful in receiving the announcement, and the money that the minister has - but many of these organizations and associations, throughout the last several years, have been finding it very hard to keep their doors open. I know that one association was at risk of not even opening this year.
What they want and what they've been telling us is that they need a long-term plan, they need sustainable funding. It's hard for these associations to come up with a plan for the next five, 10 years, even one year, when they don't know what the funding is going to be down the road. Like I say, they are appreciative of the initial investment of $500,000, but they want to know where they're going to be next year and the year after. So I will come back to that, and hopefully the minister can answer that.
The other thing is around the cultural sector in this province. They are very concerned because all indications through the budget lines we've seen are that they have taken a cut this year. I don't know if the minister will answer that, but I'll point that out in a few minutes and try to get an answer on that.
Also, with the Nova Scotia Art Gallery. I know that I asked the minister during Question Period about the funding to the gallery and he stated that the funding did go up. The funding went up, I think, $18,000 from last year and what's scary is if you were to go back to the 1998-99 budget for the Art Gallery, it's nowhere near what it is today. They're really struggling to try to make ends meet and hopefully meet their targets for the proposed budget of the upcoming year. I believe they need to try to increase cash flow through admissions to almost $200,000.
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There are concerns with how high Tourism, Culture and Heritage is on the priority list of the minister, so maybe I'll start with that. How can you reassure the people in the tourism, heritage and culture sectors how committed you are when you're taking on these additional and very important portfolios in Health Promotion and Immigration?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: The member is right, tourism, culture and heritage are very important to our province, they are important economically. I mentioned in my opening statement there are over 34,000 jobs with respect to tourism. Culture has a significant impact, as does heritage and more importantly, they all complement one another. What we saw in 1999, when we came in, was that Heritage and Culture were with Education, Tourism was with Economic Development, and there was a bit of a break in what we saw as a natural fit.
I have been very fortunate that having been in the portfolio of Tourism, Culture and Heritage since 1999, I have gotten some experience. Although being one of the younger members in the House, and as part of my colleagues in Cabinet - and I know the member is a young member in this House, as well - that having the six years' experience, I believe, provides some insight into the portfolio. Certainly, that helps in finding that balance, along with the other portfolios. What I'm able to do is combine.
If I'm going to Sydney, and perhaps it's a trip for Health Promotion, I tie Tourism in with it and vice versa. It is a bit of a balancing act but we're very fortunate. We have a very professional staff, we have a very established industry. For instance, at the TIANS conference, the Tourism Industry Association conference in December, it's not just a government plan, it's not just a department plan, it's a plan of the industry. That plan of marketing and product development is something that we have continually committed to work in partnership with the industry to put that forward, and I think we're seeing the results of it.
The tourism industry has seen some big challenges over the last few years, be it with SARS, which although in Ontario it affected us here in Nova Scotia, or be it, of course, 9/11. When you have the country next door at war and continues to be at war, that affects tourism here in our province, as does weather and many other things, but it's what we can do.
[5:00 p.m.]
I don't know if the member wants me to answer the Culture question now, or if he would like to get into more depth. On the cultural side - and I'm just asking for some numbers with respect to the change - one of the reasons for the change in the Culture division, there has certainly been no cut. In fact, there are additional dollars for organizations, and also, for many things: book publishers, there's an additional commitment of $50,000 that's part of our blue book commitment, and there's a new strategy with respect to that;
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there are Gaelic initiatives which we are seeing dollars there; and money for cultural activities and organizations.
One of the reasons for the change is because you saw the money that was there for the Congrès Mondial Acadien, which was one time, so obviously, the dollar amount for that was $400,000. That money wasn't back in the budget this year, so when you see our budget actually moving forward, we even had to make up that $400,000 debt, plus there's another $200,000 which has traditionally been in our budget, which was done in partnership with the Minister of Acadian Affairs. That $200,000 has been transferred.
So it's not a reduction in the amount of money we're spending, culturally, it's simply a transfer with respect to those dollars and more dollars being invested in the Culture division, focusing on things like the music sector, putting that position in place, which was needed - although we have the cultural industry's aspect. We want to ensure that with the strategy, with the Junos coming forward, the East Coast Music Awards and many other initiatives, that we had the appropriate capacity in place to deal with those issues. So there are reasons for that.
The member also mentioned the Art Gallery. The Art Gallery's budget this year, versus last year, was an $18,000 difference, the member is correct, it's 2 per cent. It's certainly not a huge increase, but there are other investments that we made.
At the Yarmouth branch in Yarmouth through the Art Gallery, which I know my colleague is a big supporter of, we saw an additional investment during the last couple of months of $250,000. Well, that certainly shows a commitment and that's not just for Yarmouth, that's the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia, and that's an investment in the Art Gallery.
We also want to make sure in any investment in the Art Gallery (Interruptions) Your time is getting short. I'll cut my comments short but to put it into context, we want to make sure that the dollars we're investing in the gallery are being utilized to the fullest.
My colleague, the Minister of Transportation and Public Works, and his department have been very good to the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia and will continue to be very good. We need to make sure, and I need to assure my colleagues, that every dollar is being spent in the most appropriate fashion. Take a look at the Rodin exhibition right now and I think artistically, it's working very well. I know there are other questions, so I will take my seat.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member has about 45 seconds.
MR. DAVID WILSON (Sackville-Cobequid): I guess we're going to have to wait another year for all this but the minister has to realize that the groups and organizations out there are concerned with what is going on in the province, especially with your caseload, taking on additional portfolios. I guess we'll have to wait until later on, I don't know if there
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will be time left over to get to some specific questions, but I just want the minister to know that the groups out there are concerned with what's going on and the lack of funding at times. It's hard for them to come directly to the government, that's why they come to the Opposition Parties because they don't want to jeopardize future funding. It's very volatile out there, I think, and they just want to know that the minister is committed to looking at their concerns, especially when the government wants to increase our tourism numbers by 2012, I believe.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Halifax Citadel.
MR. DANIEL GRAHAM: Before I begin, Mr. Chairman, do you mind if I make an inquiry about the amount of time that's left.
MR. CHAIRMAN: There's approximately 49 minutes.
MR. GRAHAM: Is that 49 minutes in total?
MR. CHAIRMAN: For your caucus, yes.
MR. GRAHAM: Thank you. My first question - it won't be a surprise that I'm asking questions about the VLT issue - is whether or not the minister believes that a phased-out ban is doable.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: I thank the member for the question and I know that this is not a surprise, as I know the member has quite an interest, and I applaud the member's interest in this very serious issue.
The government has taken a look at a variety of things that we can do. We went out to ask the public what their thoughts were. We made very clear decisions on the Gaming Strategy and the government's position was clearly outlined in that. That being said, we are
also committed, on a regular basis, to reviewing what's happening and making sure what is happening is working. My interest in Health Promotion is to make sure that those who have addictions, or those at risk, are being served in the best possible way. Again, I think it's important that in the future, on a continuous basis, be it through a socio-economic study or otherwise, that we continue to review if what we're doing is working.
MR. GRAHAM: My question for the minister, again, is whether or not he believes that a phased-out ban is doable.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: We've said, and the Premier has said, that what we have to do is find a balance. We have to be there to ensure that we are there to regulate, and to make sure that appropriate steps are being taken. The government is not moving forward
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on a phased-out approach as the member has indicated, and we have said that very clearly in the strategy, and that is the position of myself and that is the position of our government.
MR. GRAHAM: Again, my question for the third time is whether or not the minister believes that a phased-in ban of the VLTs is a doable thing.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Anything is doable. We've seen different approaches taken in different jurisdictions. I know the member has quoted some of the ones in this House. I'm aware that there are a variety of approaches. Our approach has been a balanced approach and that is clearly outlined in our strategy. That is my position, as well as the government's position.
MR. GRAHAM: Thank you, Mr. Minister, for the answer. I think you're right, that anything is doable with the right will, and it was a point that I expressed earlier today with respect to this particular issue. I guess the balance that needs to be struck is the one between the gravity of the problem and the ease with which one can fix that. The gravity of the problem, I think, is well known and it has been set out most comprehensively in the 2003 Gambling Prevalence Study.
The prevalence study established that there are 15,000 problem gamblers in Nova Scotia. Approximately half of those problem gamblers are VLT users. The great proportion of calls to the gambling help line is with respect to VLTs, it is described by counsellors, some of whom I've spoke with just in the last week or so, as representing over 90 per cent of the problems with respect to gambling addictions.
There have been some recent studies, and I would like to just share this with the minister and the House, and I'm happy to provide this to the House, if necessary. In a study out of the University of Illinois - this is with respect to Gamblers Anonymous people who were surveyed - 26 per cent said they had divorced or separated due to gambling; 34 per cent lost or quit a job; 44 per cent said they had stolen from work to pay their gambling debts; 21 per cent had filed for bankruptcy; 18 per cent had gambling-related arrests; 66 per cent said they contemplated suicide; 16 per cent had indeed attempted suicide.
My assumption is that the problems in that particular jurisdiction aren't dissimilar to the extreme and terrible problems that we have in Nova Scotia. Knowing that, my question for the minister is as follows, if this were an issue involving $133,000 worth of revenue, instead of $133 million worth of revenue, do you think that we would address it and ban these VLTs?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: I think that that's a hypothetical question and I think whenever we make a decision as a government, we take a look at not, necessarily, what could be, but what is. The reality of it is the government does take in a great deal of revenue with respect to VLTs and we have not hidden the fact that that is the case.
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What we have attempted to do through the Gaming Strategy, and really one of the first of its kind nationally, in the approach that we have taken through the consultation piece with the Gaming Corporation and Health Promotion through Addiction Services, is to enable people to provide their feedback, and then to move forward with a strategy that we felt was in the best interests of Nova Scotians, with the best information that we have available at the present time.
I think we need more research with respect to VLTs, we need more surveillance as to what is happening. We need to ensure that the money we're investing is helping those who need the help. The $3 million is going to go to a number of areas: public awareness; best practices models; trying some pilot projects per se, in coordination with staff people; DHA treatment needs; early intervention; and prevention and treatment research.
I think it's going to be vital for us to take a look at what comes back in the socio-economic study, it's going to be vital for us to take a look at the next problem gambling prevalence study, and to ensure that our strategies continue to evolve and develop accordingly to that. I'm certainly not suggesting that everything the government put forward is the answer to all addictions problems in the province, and I think that would be neglectful of me to say such a thing. But we are making the best decisions we feel, with the evidence that we have at our fingertips.
MR. GRAHAM: The minister spoke about the costs associated with this and I cite for his reference just on that point. He has indicated that this exercise actually goes to generate revenue, from the government's perspective - a lot of revenue as he describes it. I want to cite for him some research from Harvard Medical School, Dr. Howard Shaffer, who allowed that the cost to taxpayers is $2 for every $1 that the government brings in with respect to this. It is part of a wide series of research that suggests that the economic impact from problem gambling, and I would suggest with respect to VLTs in particular, is a negative one. In fact, the government's commitment to the $133 million, which it often says is going to health, roads, education and various other things, is illusory.
I know that the minister must be familiar with the GPI Atlantic statement, I've actually referenced it on a number of occasions. This is a well-respected Nova Scotia research organization, which says in a news release that was put forward on October 27, 2004 - this is on Page 2, top of the heading, Social, economic costs reduce profits. It says, "The GPI study cites evidence that the government's estimate of gambling profits may be illusory, because it does not account for the higher health care, justice, social service, productivity loss, and other costs generated by problem gambling. Deducting these costs would dramatically reduce the government's apparent take from gambling. Explicitly counting and recognizing these costs, says GPI Atlantic, could help reduce the apparent allure of gambling profits and strengthen efforts to reduce problem gambling."
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[5:15 p.m.]
I say that because what we have is well-respected Nova Scotia researchers, Mr. Minister, who are saying the $133 million that we have is illusory. We have specific research from other jurisdictions that says that it's a net negative benefit. The minister has admitted that perhaps anything is possible, and he's familiar with the experiences in other jurisdictions, and I want to cite one, in particular. I know this is the one that is cited most often and it is because this is the only one where there has actually been research done, with the small exception of South Dakota which had a very similar result. So in the two jurisdictions where there was actually research done after a ban was in place, there was a dramatic decline in the addictions levels in those jurisdictions. In fact, this has happened in the jurisdiction of South Carolina, and the minister is familiar with this. The experience in South Carolina was an overwhelming success, by anyone's standards.
I guess I'm trying to get some insight for Nova Scotians on how this government, in the face of research that it funded with GPI, research that says that the gross numbers are illusory, research from other jurisdictions that says that, in fact, this activity may be losing us money instead of making us money, clear indication in research from other jurisdictions that, in fact, this is possible and there could be a huge benefit, why the Minister of Health Promotion in Nova Scotia didn't ensure that we protect Nova Scotians fully, in light of the evidence, and at least introduce a plan to phase out these machines. Let me attach to that - because that's related to earlier questions that I had - one other question that is associated with that. Actually, I'll just leave you with that question and then I'll come back to my second question as soon as you've finished.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: The member suggests that somehow the government was not interested in ensuring the protection of Nova Scotians and I certainly disagree with that member. If he takes - and I know he has looked at the strategy inside out and looked at various pieces of literature, albeit, I think that it's safe to say that there's not enough literature out there on issues such as VLTs, and there's simply not, we need more research in this area. We recognize that as a government and many individuals have said that to us and we will continue to do more research in that area.
In protecting Nova Scotians or working with Nova Scotians who either are at risk or do not have any sort of addiction at all, or those who are at risk, it's important that we put in the appropriate prevention and treatment programs. That is where that $3 million is targeted, in addition to the dollars already being spent, and that's why we're focusing on many various areas, be it public awareness.
The member mentioned the help line. Well, the help line's numbers, if you take a look at January, February and March, there's a huge increase, more than 50 per cent, more than 60 per cent. That is, in many cases, because of the marketing that we have done around the help line, and there hasn't been enough marketing done in the past, as well, along with
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the public attention it has received in provincial and local papers on this issue, and I think as a result of the strategy. It's important that we continue to do more research and it's clearly identified.
I'm going to give a quote to the member, because he was using a quote, was it GPI? This is one from Dr. Harold Wynne, Ph.D., a skilled social scientist who has conducted scores of social research projects, effectiveness and efficiency studies, policy analyses, program evaluations, population surveys, and community research projects. He is acknowledged as one of the leading international authorities in the field of gambling research. "I am very impressed . . .", and he's referring to Nova Scotia's Gaming Strategy, " . . . with this initiative and the direction you are taking. In my closing summary at the recent Alberta Gaming Research Institution in Edmonton, I referred to Nova Scotia as the bellweather province when it comes to gaming policy and responsible gaming initiatives. Most importantly, no one disagreed with me!"
There are other quotes as well that I can refer to of people acknowledging that Nova Scotia is taking a leadership role in this and yes, we're finding that balance, the recognition that yes, we do have gaming in many forms, be it bingo or be it VLTs or be it - I know in my own area - harness racing. At the same time, we are ensuring that the health promotion and prevention side is also being invested in and finding that balance.
MR. GRAHAM: I appreciate what you're saying, Mr. Minister, and on the surface that's almost a compellable case that you're making. Except, the reality is that the advertising and the promotion that you've recently done really came after a great deal of public pressure.
I can remember sitting down with officials from the Gaming Corporation on a number of occasions when they told me the stark reality that for every $500 that is put into a VLT, only $310 of those dollars come back. At that time there was no television advertising with respect to the use of VLTs. I wondered why, in front of them, there wasn't some kind of stark advertisements - and I would commend your department for your effective advertisements that relate to smoking cessation, very effective, direct, to-the-point kinds of messages, that don't appear with respect to television advertising. I was suggesting at that time that if $190 is lost, on average, for every $500 that you're putting into a VLT, why you don't do something simple like have a split screen: a family going off on a $190 weekend to White Point Beach Lodge or something like that, and then another family in the screen beside it standing around a parent who's pumping $500 worth of loonies into a machine.
When you talk about who's taking the lead, it is the people of Nova Scotia who have actually taken the lead and in terms of the government's commitment to this, it's clear that the advertising came out at the start of this year. The advertising wasn't something that was promoted over a long period of time, but the advertising in this particular area is something that has appeared, really, in the last several months, when the people of Nova Scotia started to speak out. The people, frankly, who have been most effective in this are the problem
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gamblers, and if there's something that's unique about Nova Scotia that gives people the most hope, frankly, it is that the people of Nova Scotia who are suffering from this problem are, en masse, beginning to break the silence.
Over time, I would suggest with the greatest respect, Mr. Minister, there's not much that you, your government, or the people in the NDP or Liberal Party will be able to do about it because it will be the people of Nova Scotia who will ultimately have their will reflected in the policies that are put forward by a government. It will be those people who will ensure that Nova Scotia does become a true beacon over time, because, as we've heard from addictions experts in the past recently, on the day, in fact, that your policy was announced, I recall an addictions expert from the Capital District Health Authority saying on television that it's not clear whether or not this might increase people's appetite, reducing the number by 800 VLTs. It may, in fact, not help the problem at all, especially for those people who currently have a problem. Those people will continue to try to find their way to these machines. Let me move on to some additional comments.
You cited research just a little while ago from an international source and I'm sure that you or members of your staff are familiar with Mark Dickerson. Mr. Dickerson is recognized perhaps as the world authority when it comes to VLT addictions. Mr. Dickerson says that these machines themselves are inherently addictive, that they're unlike any other type of gambling or gaming and they are inherently addictive, and that's why they're called the crack cocaine of gambling. Do you believe that these machines are inherently addictive?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Madam Chairman, first of all I'm just going to go back to the radio ads, before I get to the second part of the member's question. The member is right, the fact that we invested more money in the area of the radio ads, as an example, I think has struck a cord with many Nova Scotians who need our help. Those radio ads were in the planning, we had focus testing done and such. That was done even in advance of releasing the strategy itself. We recognize that we need to do more in that area. We need to take a comprehensive approach.
As far as that comprehensive approach, yes, we needed to make changes to the machine. What we can see and what we have heard is that the continuous form of gambling, VLTs - and that's why people so often talk about VLTs when talking about gambling, because it is that continuous form - making some of the changes which we are making, be it on, for instance, changing the hours or be it on other aspects, and the stop button is probably the best example, it causes the machine to slow down, it causes that continuous play to perhaps be less addictive.
Madam Chairman, I guess you could point to anything, some people get hooked on alcohol, other people get hooked on drugs, and no matter what you're talking about, people can often get addicted, and different forms of gambling as well, be it in one form or another. They may have addictive personalities. It could be an addiction to shopping or alcohol or
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nicotine or gambling or whatever it could be. I don't know if that necessarily answers the member's question to his satisfaction. I'm sure he'll follow up on the question.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Would the honourable member allow for an introduction?
MR. GRAHAM: Yes.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley on an introduction.
MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Madam Chairman, I would like to draw to the attention of all honourable members four distinguished guests in our east gallery - well, five. (Laughter) There are probably more, but I would draw your attention to the four folks sitting in the front row. To my far left would be the President of the provincial Progressive Conservatives, Mr. John MacDonell - good afternoon, John. Beside John, no stranger to the Nova Scotia Legislature, a former MLA, a former Cabinet Minister, a very successful businessman, is Mr. Ken Streatch - good afternoon, Ken. Beside Ken, I'm especially pleased to introduce the Progressive Conservative candidate for the beautiful riding of Chester-St. Margaret's, and she would be Ken's daughter, Judy Streatch - welcome, Judy. (Applause)
Accompanying the trio is Ms. Janet Fryday-Dorey - welcome, Janet, as well. (Interruptions) She used to be a student of Bill Estabrooks, well, we certainly won't hold that against you, Janet. Peter, you can be introduced at another time, but welcome to you, as well. Thank you very much, and of course thank you to the honourable member for Halifax Citadel for graciously yielding the floor. (Applause)
MR. GRAHAM: Welcome to our guests. All the best to Ms. Streatch in what lies ahead, in what I expect will be an election that's called sometime soon.
Madam Chairman, the minister finished by asking whether or not he had answered my question, and I guess the concern that I have is that yes, he did answer the question. The analogies with respect to addictions to shopping and other types of addictions, frankly, missed the point entirely. It misses the point with respect to the nature of this. What appears to be lost on a number of members of the government is that this type of machine, according to the literature, is a killing machine. It is a killing machine.
[5:30 p.m.]
According to the literature, it seems to suggest that almost anyone who is put before these machines would develop a considerable problem, and when in fact they leave these machines, they don't even go to other types of gambling addictions. The mechanisms used to draw in people's addictions aren't dissimilar to the worst examples in history of brainwashing that we've just had in this past century. So to compare it with shopping is
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completely - and I appreciate the member making the point that that's one of a number of addictions.
I would like to make this point, and it seems to be one that is lost on others, that the research suggests that this particular machine is unlike anything we've ever seen, and it's why this Party has been saying that the experiment that we began, that everyone began at one period of time - I'm sure the NDP would wash their hands of any involvement with this - the experiment that began here has been a total and utter failure. The responsibility for that rests on many sides, but the evidence is more clear now than it has ever been, that these machines actually are killing machines that create blood money. The research with respect to suicide is just overwhelming. Suicidal ideation with respect to gambling addictions is greater than any other type of addiction.
Let me move to the go-forward plan with respect to this, Madam Chairman. The government has not said, since it came forward with the new strategy, that this was about the money. They've said they didn't go all the way with respect to VLTs, that it can't be done because of these grey machines. I've asked the minister to answer questions with respect to that. But we found out - well, first of all, with respect to the prevalence study, the prevalence study from 2003 clearly set out the problems with respect to having ATM machines in the establishments where there are VLTs, and we also have research that surfaced, I believe it was last week or the week before, 10 days or so ago, that suggests that bill acceptors could have been removed.
I'm wondering if the plan was to go up to the edge of the cliff and do everything you possibly could without making things worse somehow through an underground industry, as is being argued by the government side, why out of a principle of precaution did the government not remove the bill acceptors and the ATMs? Even out of a principle of precaution, and you might say that the evidence is unclear, but as a precautionary principle, wouldn't it have made sense?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Well, Madam Chairman, I think the member actually gave the answer to my question, in advance of me giving the answer. The fact is that the evidence in respect to things such as bill acceptors is not clear. We do need more research in areas like that. We need more evidence. It's something we need to continue to monitor.
Madam Chairman, we looked at that, as well as many other possibilities that we could move forward on, and we made a very clear decision to make the changes that we did make, be it on the stop button, be it on the hours, be it with respect to the removal of many machines. Now, I think this is a very progressive step forward. It's a huge step forward. If someone told me a year and a half ago, or I'm sure my colleagues who sat in government pre-1999, if someone had said in 1998 or 1999 that the government of the day would make such a decision, and take the steps that we did, I'm sure they would say at that time, as we're saying here, that it's very progressive.
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It's not only us who are saying it, we have others saying it. I mentioned Dr. Harold Wynne as one example. These are people whose job it is to take a look at the research which is available, to conduct projects, and to move forward on various studies and policy analyses and such. It's not just us saying it, they are saying it. We are on the leading edge of what is happening, even across the country. It may not be to the satisfaction of every member in this House, but it is a huge step forward. I think it's important to recognize that, and get to the people who need our help, and that's through the prevention and the treatment programs.
MR. GRAHAM: Madam Chairman, it may be redundant for me to repeat the question, it was on the element of the precautionary principle. The removal of the bill acceptors was costed out at $16 million. That's a significant potential addiction level that's associated with that kind of consumption, and as a precaution in this matter, can the minister give us any kind of assurance that this was not done because it would have cost the government $16 million, or was the $16 million at the heart of it? A related question to what he had just provided to us is that he has referenced the research going in both directions on the matter of bill acceptors, could he table for us a copy of the research, on both sides, that his office examined with respect to this particular matter?
Let me move to a third matter. The Nova Scotia Gaming Foundation put on a very successful international conference that wasn't attended by any of the ministers back in October of this past year, but it was obviously a step in the right direction. It was recognized as one of the leading conferences of its type. It's the kind of work that the Gaming Foundation does best, but some people are speculating about whether or not the Gaming Foundation's mandate should be expanded such that it could have an advocacy role, not just a role in terms of public education. Would the minister support a mandate for the Gaming Foundation that involved some elements of advocacy?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Madam Chairman, I think that if you take a look at the process we went through with respect to review, the memorandum of understanding that we have with the Gaming Foundation, the member is hitting a very important point, and that is the Gaming Foundation, as we've seen through their review, does play a critical role and they do have a mandate around which to operate. I think it's important that the neutrality, as well, of that mandate be maintained, because there are many advocacy groups out there. What we need to ensure is that that foundation is there to serve the best interests of Nova Scotians, all of us, to ensure that community groups have opportunities to get funding for research, and when you're taking a look at areas such as research, we need to ensure that body maintains a neutral position.
The member might suggest that perhaps the government would have a biased position when it comes to something like that, taking a look at a certain thing like bill acceptors or something else. You'll have advocacy groups suggesting to do one thing. I think it's important to have that neutral group in the middle to work with us to ensure that we do have that perspective coming in for government and for all Nova Scotians.
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MR. GRAHAM: Madam Chairman, in the interests of time, I'll move on to the next part of my questioning, and it relates to a commitment that was given by the Minister of Health when he was in estimates and the Minister of Finance in general. Through estimates, both in this committee and in the Red Room, I spoke to them about the issue of suicides. I appreciate that each of the three ministers has not had an opportunity to speak on this particular issue, but I know the Minister of Health Promotion was present when the questions were being asked of the Minister of Health with respect to taking positive action to ensure that the coroner will be engaged to determine whether or not there is an active process that could be properly resourced to track suicides from VLT addictions and gambling addictions here in Nova Scotia.
I would just like a confirmation from the minister, having heard what you did on that previous occasion in committee, and the request, again today, whether or not you, too, are committed to that exercise.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Madam Chairman, the member is correct, I was in here to listen to the debate of my colleague, the Minister of Health. I do know that the Minister of Health, along with the Minister of Justice, who obviously has a very strong interest in the Chief Medical Examiner and what is happening there, along with Health Promotion, are all interested in taking a look at this particular issue and reviewing this issue, and then making a decision based upon that review, which will be done.
MR. GRAHAM: Madam Chairman, that's the extent of my questions. I'd like to turn them over to my colleague. I'd like to thank the minister and his colleagues, as well.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Digby-Annapolis.
MR. HAROLD THERIAULT: Madam Chairman, Mr. Minister, I won't take too long, I'll get right to the point. We haven't got much time left anyway. Many tourist operators in the Digby-Annapolis area feel they've been shortchanged by the Nova Scotia Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage. I don't know about anywhere else, but I'm just speaking of the Digby-Annapolis area. This community has worked hard towards making the Digby-Annapolis area a world, first-class tourist destination. For the past two or three years this has gone on, and they're still working hard at it.
This area is a first-class, quality tourist area, and it has great potential. Digby is known for many things. It's known as one of the most romantic towns in Canada. (Interruptions) Come down and find out. The scallops do it. (Laughter)
And Annapolis is known as the best small town to live in, in the world. The first European settlers came there 400 years ago. They sailed all around this coast, and when they found the Digby Basin, Annapolis Basin, they sailed into it, and the message they sent home was we found the best place you could ever look for. It's in the history books. Digby's also
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known for its world-famous Digby scallops. It has the best whale-watching industry in Nova Scotia, in the Bay of Fundy. And if that is not enough, it has the biggest and best lobster fishery in this province, in this country. Big ones, the biggest.
It's a major destination point for tourists in this province, and the people are telling me - and it's true - we don't even have a welcome sign there, where over 100,000 visitors come off the Digby boat. There's no welcome sign. All there is is alders growing up, on both sides of the road. (Interruptions) That's what we have there. So my question for you, Mr. Minister, from the people down there, is the minister willing to look into this and make it his priority to look at this destination, to look at this area and work towards it being a world, first-class ecotourist destination?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Madam Chairman, that would be where the boat - the love boat (Laughter) One of the most romantic places, I know where I'm going on vacation this Summer now. The member is right, Digby is a beautiful place. I've had the opportunity to be out on the water in Digby and I can attest to the beauty of Digby and that part of Nova Scotia.
[5:45 p.m.]
I've also been in the area where the member is referring to and I think that's something we do need to take a look at with regard to the sign. Actually, I brought this up recently with our staff because when you're coming off at Pictou, as well, we need to ensure that there is an appropriate welcome sign for Nova Scotia. It's an important entry point. We have it when you come off an international flight at the airport and many other places, and we work with our regional tourism associations with regard to what's on the blue signs, which you would see, working with the Department of Transportation and Public Works.
What we do have there is there is an information centre which I know the member is aware of. The staff are professional, they provide quality service to those coming to Nova Scotia. But I will undertake to ensure that we review that situation and also to add that part of the task force that we have with respect to ministers - and some of my colleagues are sitting on that task force - to take a look at the tourism issues, Transportation and many of the other departments which affect tourism. But I appreciate the member's question and I will undertake to have a review done of that situation.
MR. THERIAULT: Mr. Minister, I'm sure the people will be pleased to hear that. The Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage knows the situation in Yarmouth with the Scotia Prince gone from that area. Is the Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage concerned about that boat being gone and if so, is it looking into some alternative way of bringing passengers in there?
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MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Yes, Madam Chairman, the member brings up a very good point. There are many ways to travel to Nova Scotia. Obviously of interest to the southern part of Nova Scotia, a huge interest, is the traveller who comes via Bay Ferries or Scotia Prince. Unfortunately, Scotia Prince will not be operating this year. That being said, I have taken the opportunity, along with my colleagues, both the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries, and the Minister of Natural Resources in particular, because it's in the Yarmouth region, to meet with Bay Ferries and some of the leadership there on a couple of occasions. We are working very closely, first of all, to ensure that Nova Scotia and Brand Nova Scotia, and that of southwestern Nova Scotia, is out there in the marketplace so that people coming from the United States know that although the Scotia Prince is not operating, they can still travel to Nova Scotia through Bay Ferries.
We've taken a number of steps with Bay Ferries on packaging, on marketing initiatives and I can provide to the member examples of that. Already, for example, in motorcoach, we have seen that motorcoach activity that was going to be going through Scotia Prince, go to Bay Ferries. Bay Ferries is taking a number of steps on increasing the number of trips back and forth through the season, and we are still in discussions with Bay Ferries about the possibility of perhaps through the season, perhaps later in the season, seeing some trips back and forth to Portland.
Now I don't know what will happen at the end of the day. Obviously they have a business case to look at and to make a determination on that. Working with the Canadian Tourism Commission, working with those within the industry to ensure that the people in the northeastern United States know that there is another way to travel here. I think overall the numbers from Nova Scotia will not be drastically affected without Scotia Prince, but what will be affected is the overnight stays in Yarmouth and that concerns me. So overall travellers, if they want to come here, they will find a way to get here, but what is of concern is the room nights that people stay, because of the way the schedules run for Scotia Prince, leaving that early time in the morning. That is the concern we've been hearing from many places in Yarmouth.
MR. THERIAULT: Thank you, Mr. Minister. I'll give the rest of my time to my colleague.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Annapolis.
MR. STEPHEN MCNEIL: I don't know what makes Annapolis Royal the most loveable but it's definitely not the scallops. I'm not sure what they have down his way. Just a couple of questions, Mr. Minister, regarding Upper Clements Park. I know that there was an agreement with the local group, the Hanse Society, which has been running the park for a number of years, that after a 10-year period the contract was to expire. I'm just wondering the status of where we are.
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As well as throughout my constituency and all over Nova Scotia, one of the issues that I've been hearing from the tourism operators - and I will use the Historic Gardens in Annapolis Royal and the Macdonald Museum in Middleton - has been the fact that a lot of their operating capital is being eaten up in trying to maintain their property, whether it be to repair the buildings, repair the roofs. I'm wondering if there is any move afoot within the department to set a capital budget aside that groups can apply for every few years to use some of that money to maintain the existing infrastructure that we have.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: I want to make sure I picked up on the question correctly, Mr. Chairman, was it broadly on heritage that you were referring to or specifically on the Historic Gardens?
MR. MCNEIL: No, broadly. And also the Hanse Society . . .
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Yes, the Upper Clements Park and Hanse Society. Mr. Chairman, the agreement with the Hanse Society for Upper Clements Park, I believe it's 2006 that that agreement ends, I'm pretty sure. That was a 10-year agreement. So there are discussions - I'm not sure if it's January 1st but the member could be correct, I would have to check that out, but there are discussions happening - between those within our department and the Hanse Society.
I realize that this is an important issue to the Hanse Society, to the community, and we want to ensure that the steps that we take are in the best interest for tourism, are in the best interest for the park and recognizing that there is valuable summer employment in that particular area for many individuals, at the same time recognizing that I think it's $300,000 a year that we are investing but I will have to refer to those with the numbers beside me. That money is a significant investment as well, so it's also of interest to the taxpayers of Nova Scotia. So whatever we do, those discussions are important. Again, that's a decision that my colleagues will have to make from there.
The other aspect on the investment in heritage, we do need investment in many parts of heritage, in buildings. We have many buildings which need to be appropriately maintained and you just don't throw any regular roof on a heritage building, it has to be conducive with what that heritage building represents. The Minister of Economic Development has made some investments with respect to that in various small museums and other museums. I know there will be more coming out, more investments with respect to that. That's good news for us because we provide significant funding to those community museums. I think it's 68 community museums, 27 Nova Scotia museums, significant money; Public Works, as well, is obviously investing in those as well.
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When you are dealing with something like Sherbrooke Village, I think it's 120-some-odd buildings, that's a significant number of buildings. But we invest, I think it's over $900,000 in that particular museum and that's a big investment. But, like anything else, I'd like to see more investment in that area.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The time for the Liberal caucus has expired.
The honourable member for Cape Breton West.
MR. RUSSELL MACKINNON: Mr. Chairman, far be it from me to take issue with the member for Annapolis. I have a number of issues I would like to raise with the minister. Perhaps initially, with regard to Cape Breton Island tourism, as he well knows, as I'm sure the Minister of Energy well knows, tourism is extremely important. Could the minister, in perhaps two minutes or less, give us a thumbnail sketch of what the marketing strategy for Cape Breton Island, and in particular for the eastern side of Cape Breton Island, will be for the upcoming fiscal year?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, there are a number of different aspects happening with respect to marketing. Certainly Cape Breton Island is a jewel, I guess, in Nova Scotia's crown of various icons for tourism and I know the chairman would know that as well. Certainly, if you take a look at our overall marketing strategy, be it on the front page this year - it happens to be a picture of Cape Breton Island on the front page of the Doers and Dreamers Guide - you will see it in our advertising along with many other parts of Nova Scotia.
You will see it with respect to the partnership opportunities which we have - and I can send that to the member or all members if they don't have a copy of where we are marketing - be it in Summer vacation flyers, Ontario Motor Coach Association, Reader's Digest, Canadian Living, the very successful Toronto Travel & Leisure Show about a month ago, Salon Vacances in Montreal. We are promoting the cruise ships down in the southern United States and with the Atlantic Canada Cruise Association, promoting the Fabulous Four in our golf product line. There are many examples and very often Cape Breton - obviously it's part of Nova Scotia - we are branding Nova Scotia and at the same time working with Destination Cape Breton to promote regional tourism association destination marketing opportunities.
So be it in our investment in the cruise ship pavilion which was almost $260,000 or the snowmobiling which was $130,000, Viewscapes was $400,000 in Cape Breton. I know the member has a particular interest on the eastern side of the Island as well, but certainly the road improvements which are happening on that side, I think, are vital to tourism as well and recognizing cultural events, be it the Big Pond festival, which I'm very familiar with or many other festivals in our Festivals & Events Guide. These are the sorts of things we are doing and Destination Cape Breton also received an additional $120,000 - as did every regional
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tourism association receive additional funding - before the end of the fiscal year which helps them, as well, this year.
MR. MACKINNON: Mr. Chairman, I was pleased to hear the minister mention about the eastern side of Cape Breton in particular, the Big Pond music festival that takes place every year. Just to focus, because I want to give the minister a more in-depth view of what's taking place within Cape Breton West, particularly along Highway No. 4, the minister well knows the beautiful look-off just on the Richmond-Cape Breton County boundary which is extremely important for tourism and for the tourists travelling along that highway. Recently, the Minister of Transportation and Public Works, through the auspices of his department, had a similar type look-off developed. It's not entirely complete at this point but in the Big Pond area, there was an issue I raised in the House last year and the minister was very gracious in responding when the opportunity availed itself when they were doing further upgrading. It's not entirely 100 per cent complete but it does add to that networking of tourism potential.
As well, the minister well knows some of his colleagues in the music world, Rita MacNeil, who has Rita's Tea Room in Big Pond, that was a collaborative effort when all three levels of government, on a previous day, with Rita MacNeil and her enterprises (Interruption) Yes, I played an active role, at least I feel I did, but the fact of the matter is, that was a good investment and within six years, the federal and provincial governments recouped every cent of money that was invested. Now they are making money through the various levels of taxation, whether it be income tax, sales tax or what have you.
[6:00 p.m.]
Big Pond is also the home of Gordie Sampson, who we all recognized in the House here on a previous day; Gordie, a singer/songwriter, brings a tremendous amount of credibility to the community. As you move down, you move into the Ben Eoin area. We have Ben Eoin ski resort which now, when you compare to 1985 when that particular resort was on the tax sale for the municipality because they couldn't afford to even pay the property taxes, has a membership of over 4,100 and has a quad lift. They not only use it in the Winter months, but also in the Summer months for tourism and music festivals and so on. So it is quite a rather rich attraction to add to that component.
Just recently, in the last year, the Birches at Ben Eoin owners, Larry and Barb MacPherson, showed considerable confidence in the rural economy of Cape Breton by building a four and a half star tourism inn and a restaurant with a seating capacity of over 50 persons. That, in itself, is extremely positive.
We also have a provincial park, campground park, a day park, in Ben Eoin as well. The point I'm making, Mr. Minister, through you, Mr. Chairman, is that every time there is an upgrade on Highway No. 4, there are additional benefits that seem to occur. As well, in Big Pond, I would be remiss if I didn't mention MacPherson's Cottages that Cyril and Anne
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MacPherson have built in recent years, again showing further investment there. The expansion and the development of the Big Pond Beach, notwithstanding, if you go down to Ben Eoin, you have the MacDonald family that have Ben Eoin Beach and Campground. That is sold out every year and it has been for the last 10 years. These are the types of things that add tremendously to the economy of the various communities in Cape Breton West.
As the minister well knows, I have 33 communities in Cape Breton West, 28 of them are rural in nature. This type of ribbon economy, throughout the rural part of the constituency, is extremely important. It cannot be underestimated. For example, earlier today I introduced a resolution for Eva and Tom Kummer, new Canadian citizens. They received their citizenship less than two years ago and they built the Riverbank Restaurant and the Mira River Cottages. They cater to the international market. They are from Switzerland, originally, and they are sold out yearly, well in advance. They cater to a certain clientele but they also cater to the local clientele, whether they are tourists or people just going there, if they want to get away for a weekend, or a beautiful meal and some type of Switzerland cultural food. That's the sort of thing that seems to be grabbing hold all the way throughout Cape Breton West.
The minister, as well, knows, for example, if I were to jump over to the community of Port Morien, Port Morien is known for having the first and the oldest coal mine in North America. It's also known for having the first Boy Scout troop in Canada. Mr. Chairman, every year Port Morien has what they call Morien Days. That's a week-long festival and the tremendous amount of economic growth and activity that takes place because of that and I believe - and I'm going out on a limb on this one - my sense is that there were perhaps more authors of books, local in nature, from that community than any other community in the Province of Nova Scotia. Some have been recommended for provincial awards, all about the history of Cow Bay. That was the name of Port Morien long before it was named Port Morien. So there is a deep, rich, cultural and social history that is attached to the Morien area.
For example, many folks don't know that Port Caledonia, right over to Donkin, all that area was all part of Glace Bay at one time. It was known as Big Glace Bay. Sometimes it's still referred to as Big Glace Bay and Glace Bay, as we know it now, was referred to as Little Glace Bay. Eventually, the bridges washed out. The first bridge washed out and then it was replaced. Back in the early 1930s it was erected again and then washed out and then all of a sudden, that broke down and they said okay, well they're out in the outer reaches, they're out in the county section, in the woods section, so we're just going to go with the township. So maybe back even then there was somewhat of a skewed view toward the rural part of the county, but it's so unique.
Marconi House, which has so much potential, really nothing has been done to date to advance that. Mr. Marconi, who we all know, we have a museum dedicated to him in Glace Bay, he lived at Marconi Towers. That original homestead is there to this very day and
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it's just amazing, Mr. Chairman, the residents who live there are two brothers and their families. It's such a big home that the families are there - now just one family - they are the sons of Russell Cunningham, who was a CCF member of this Legislature for many years. It's amazing how they've been able to maintain the original nature of that home that they took over from the Marconi family.
So, Mr. Chairman, Cape Breton West is steeped in a phenomenal amount of that type of history. I know, as well, that if you were to go over and look, there are recent developments along that whole coastal community going from the Morien area right through to Louisbourg. For example, going along outside the outskirts of Port Morien, they have what they call the Sandbar. It's a very popular swimming area. It has never really been fully developed, but has a tremendous amount of potential.
In Port Caledonia, that's the beach area just on the southwest side of Glace Bay, it's on the Donkin side of that waterway, that is unparalleled in terms of beach potential. I hear time and time again the issue of the Dominion Beach being raised, but one of the biggest problems with the Dominion Beach is that continual wash-in of coal dust that comes in and no matter how much work is done there, you will always have coal dust on the beach and now they have the issue of fecal contamination. So there are other areas that can be looked at to maximize on these types of recreational potentials.
As well, Mr. Chairman, if you were to continue south along the coast, the Mira Gut Beach is perhaps one of the best beaches on all of Cape Breton Island for children. What I mean by that is that they can walk out into Mira Bay, which is the inlet of the Atlantic Ocean, for upwards of 600 feet to 800 feet before they would go over their heads. It's a natural sandbar and it's beautiful for children. On a busy day, you can have anywhere from 700 to 800 people on that beach at any given time.
You continue south again and you'll land at the Catalone Gut Beach, which is almost a mile in length. Again, it's a protected beach but yet the potential has never been realized. You can go south again and what you have is the Main-à-Dieu Beach, which is now becoming extremely busy because of what has happened to the Dominion Beach. If you go further south, you come to the Belfry Beach which we all know is extremely popular and then you can go to Morrisons Beach and then you can go to Framboise Beach. These are some of the best beaches anywhere in the Province of Nova Scotia.
The minister has rightfully pointed out, one of the problems we are having is infrastructure and the quality of the roads. I know the minister is right in saying that the government has now focused on the issue of roads in Cape Breton, in particular the eastern side of Cape Breton, the rural part of Cape Breton, which is in desperate need of infrastructure. Presently, some work is being done on the Marion Bridge Highway. There is the need for much more.
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The minister knows full well, the Mira River, of course, we all know that that's where I hail from, Grand Mira South. We are getting closer to the Minister of Education's attachment in the Gabarus area because that's where his wife's family has many connections and Marion Bridge, we have Tigger's Tea Room. We have a restaurant there. We have a lot of tourist potential and I'm sure there was a previous Premier in this House who seemed to have an attachment to the Mira. At least he knew the song Out on the Mira and there was much consternation and debate as to whether he really had the right tune, but that's an issue for debate that will go on for many years.
Mr. Chairman, as well, it's an issue that I raised with the minister a little earlier, prior to his estimates coming up and it's perhaps one I'll ask a question on before I continue and that's with regard to the parish and community hall in Grand Mira South. Unfortunately, that community was faced with a very disruptive situation. The hall burned down. We are given to understand it was an electrical fire. It's the only community-based facility left that's available in Grand Mira South, which services Grand Mira South, Grand Mira North, Upper Grand Mira, Victoria Bridge, as far down as Juniper Mountain and Campbelldale Road. So I would ask the minister, what programs are available that may be able to assist this community to see the reconstruction of some type of facility that would help to maintain the lifeline in rural Nova Scotia?
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, through you to the member, I will start off with the last part of what the member was talking about and that is the Grand Mira Hall. It's very unfortunate that that hall did burn, as the member has mentioned. What I would encourage the member to do, through the organization, is to make contact with Health Promotion, Coleen Chisholm, who the member is very much aware of, our regional person in Sydney. I think there may be an opportunity for us to become involved and for them to attain some funding, perhaps on the planning assistance side, first of all, and Dave Molloy is the head of facilities management across the province and certainly Mr. Molloy could be of assistance on that. I will ensure that that happens between my staff and yourself.
Secondly, once that planning is done, they can apply, through the recreational facilities development program where they could get up to one-third for the construction of what is a very important building. I've been in other buildings in the member's riding, such as the fire hall in Big Pond, and I can tell you it's very important culturally. I've tried the stage out, Mr. Chairman. It's a very good stage as well but these sorts of investments are important. Culturally, they are important from a community standpoint and certainly the member brings up a good point and I'm glad to hear that he is speaking up on behalf of his constituents, as he does here on a regular basis.
Mr. Chairman, before I forget, too, I just want to make sure - and then I will continue with the member's answer - I forgot to announce the others who were with me earlier. Be it Scott Logan, the ADM who is with me here at Health Promotion down below, and Tanga Roche, Budget Manager. So I apologize to both those individuals. We also have individuals
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here from Immigration and I don't know if we are going to get to questions but Elizabeth Mills is here, Executive Director, and Clarence Guest, as well, who is with Justice CSU, but through Immigration. I simply want to mention that because I would deeply regret it if I did forget that.
[6:15 p.m.]
One of the key pieces to what the member talked about is that of the importance of his particular area of Cape Breton, of Nova Scotia. I couldn't agree with the member more. I've travelled along there. The need for further investment in our transportation system there, it is needed. I know the member has brought this to the attention of the floor many times on behalf of his constituents and certainly I think that is important to recognize. I also recognize the Minister of Transportation and Public Works has made significant investment already, but there is still more to be made along that route. (Interruptions)
He says it comes under my budget. (Laughter) Well, unfortunately or fortunately, it doesn't, but I think what it does point to is that the Minister of Transportation and Public Works recognizes that those types of investments in those critical tourism routes are vital and that's where he's doing a fine job on Highway No. 4. I can point to the Cabot Trail, be it the member for Victoria's riding, as an example through Middle River and places like that. Those, to me, are common sense investments on areas which we are promoting and certainly I thank Transportation and Public Works for their collaboration on that.
He mentioned the good food that's in his part of the Island, in Nova Scotia. It certainly fits well within the wine and cuisine strategy we also have, which is an industry-led strategy. He mentioned culture, obviously Gordie Sampson, who is a friend and fellow musician as well, and certainly someone who is helping, along with Rita MacNeil, to put Big Pond on the map once again.
He did mention one other thing culturally and I'm going to mention it. He mentioned Little Glace Bay and Big Glace Bay. A lot of times that doesn't happen by accident and you will hear about - if you're from Antigonish or New Glasgow - Baile Mór or Baile Beag, the small town or the little town in Gaelic, the same as Mabou, Màbu Mór or Màbu Beag. So I wouldn't hesitate to guess that Little Glace Bay and Big Glace Bay come as a result of the Gaelic. It would be interesting to look at the history of that and I wouldn't be a bit surprised. (Interruption) Yes, well, like I said, in Mabou there is West Mabou which is actually often referred to, for their cultural dances and their beach and so on, Little Mabou, Màbu Beag.
Mr. Chairman, the final point I want to make is on tourism destination kits. The tourism destination kits were put in place so that communities could identify their strengths and identify the areas they needed to work on. I would encourage all members of the House, including the member for Cape Breton West, who has put forward the question, to take that opportunity. It's a great way to pull people together in the community as well, to talk to some
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of the leaders, identify the strengths. Like anywhere, there are strengths and there are weaknesses. I would certainly encourage that.
Book publishing is one of the things the member also mentioned. I've been taking notes, that's why I wanted to mention there is additional funding in the budget this year, an additional $50,000 on top of the $86,000 I believe it was, and there are opportunities to help promote Nova Scotia's book publishing sector as well as promoting books with the work done here in Nova Scotia. Again, that's done as a complement to what is called the BPIDP federally. So I encourage the member, as well, to look to that.
I don't know if I touched on various aspects of the member's questions, but I would hand it back to the member for further questions.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Honourable member, you have five minutes remaining.
MR. MACKINNON: Mr. Chairman, I was a little worried. He was giving so much information, his colleagues were taking notes and I'm afraid they may gobble up the budget even before the vote takes place. Some of the other issues, obviously, that have been raised in recent days, particularly as the minister would be aware of the issues surrounding the Fleur-de-lis Trail and some of the issues on that. There has been so much talk and activity and sometimes controversy about that, but I would just flag that with the minister because obviously it's so important. That's the connection between Louisbourg and Oceanview, which is the lead into Gabarus and that's where the last piece of asphalt was done.
I still maintain until this very moment that the departmental staff should be focusing along the old, existing trail which was used right up until approximately 1968 and the argument saying that it's archeologically sensitive doesn't seem to hold with a lot of residents. If they would do that instead of that new route, you would save about $7.5 million. It's just absolutely panoramic, the view, so I leave that with the minister.
When you get to Louisbourg, as the minister well knows, the Fortress of Louisbourg is the crown jewel and I would encourage the minister perhaps to have some collaborative effort with the federal government in doing some additional marketing because I was always concerned, particularly when representatives from the Cape Breton Economic Development Authority appeared before the Public Accounts Committee at one time and indicated that that really wasn't their responsibility to advance promotion of the Fortress of Louisbourg and I was a little bit confused on that. As the minister well knows, the yearly Louisbourg Crab Fest, it's a three-day music and food festival. It has become an extremely popular event in the town, attracting anywhere from 4,000 to 5,000 tourists and residents alike. It's this type of activity that generates a lot of the spinoff economies, benefits, in rural Cape Breton.
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Again, in that whole general proximity, the minister knows that we have the Two Rivers Wildlife Park. Actually we are leading well into the millions of dollars of investment that have been made into that wildlife park since it was privatized several years back and perhaps if the minister and his department could take the opportunity, if for no other reason than to have somebody from his department go to that site and do a tour, it would be absolutely amazing to see all the positive things that have taken place there.
As well, the Mira Provincial Park. I recall when your previous colleague in the House here, Minister John Leefe, when he was Minister of Natural Resources, he undertook to see a substantial investment. It was an Opposition-held riding but still he made the right policy decision to invest in showers and the proper washroom facilities and that has created major spinoff investments.
As well, Mr. Chairman, in Eskasoni, the Cultural Centre that has been constructed there, overlooking the Bras d'Or Lakes, actually built right out over the Bras d'Or Lakes - half of it - and it's just absolutely breathtaking for different interest groups and organizations that could go there and it's open for that type of facility.
Mr. Chairman, as well, the Main-à-Dieu Coastal Community Centre, I've raised that in the House several weeks ago, that in itself is a rather substantial investment. I'm making all these individual points because . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Order. It's difficult to hear the honourable member for Cape Breton West. The honourable member, with 30 seconds left.
MR. MACKINNON: Mr. Chairman, I realize all members are getting right excited about wanting to vote for the budget, irrespective of whether it's yea or nay but I can safely say, in my view, it's a good budget and it's good for Nova Scotia.
MR. RODNEY MACDONALD: I would like to thank the staff, Mr. Chairman, and the members for their questions.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E31 stand?
Resolution E31 stands.
Resolution E14 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $22,254,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Executive Council, pursuant to the Estimate of the Office of Immigration.
Resolution E25 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $23,919,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Office of Health Promotion, pursuant to the Estimate.
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MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall the resolutions carry?
The resolutions are carried.
That concludes our 40 hours of estimates.
The honourable member for Kings North.
MR. MARK PARENT: I'm pleased to report that the Subcommittee on Supply has met for the time allotted to it and considered the various estimates assigned to it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall all remaining resolutions carry?
The resolutions are carried.
The honourable Government House Leader.
HON. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Chairman, I move that your committee do now rise and report these estimates.
[The committee rose at 6:25 p.m.]
