HANSARD
NOVA SCOTIA HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
COMMITTEE
ON
VETERANS AFFAIRS
Tuesday, December 14, 2021
Committee Room
Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command of the Royal Canadian Legion:
Update on Current Affairs, Funds and Services
Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services
VETERANS AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
Chris Palmer (Chair)
Danielle Barkhouse (Vice-Chair)
Larry Harrison
Tom Taggert
Nolan Young
Hon. Ben Jessome
Ali Duale
Suzy Hansen
Lisa Lachance
In Attendance:
Heather Hoddinott
Legislative Committee Clerk
Gordon Hebb
Chief Legislative Counsel
WITNESS
Valerie Mitchell-Veinotte,
Executive Director,
Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command of the Royal Canadian Legion
HALIFAX, TUESDAY, DECEMBER 14, 2021
STANDING COMMITTEE ON VETERANS AFFAIRS
2:00 P.M.
CHAIR
Chris Palmer
Vice-Chair
Danielle Barkhouse
THE CHAIR: Good afternoon, everybody. I’d like to call the meeting to order of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. My name is Chris Palmer, MLA for Kings West.
Just a few reminders before we start. Please keep your masks on during the meeting unless you are speaking. Please have your phones on silent or vibrate, and a reminder that the washrooms are in the entry room to the left. In case of an emergency, we will all leave and meet on Granville Street and proceed to the Grand Parade.
At this point I’d like to go around the table and ask all the committee members to introduce themselves. We’ll start over here, please.
[The committee members introduced themselves.]
THE CHAIR: For the purposes of Hansard, I acknowledge the presence of Chief Legislative Counsel Gordon Hebb and our Legislative Committee Clerk Heather Hoddinott.
On our agenda today is an update on current affairs, funds, and services from the Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command of the Royal Canadian Legion.
At this time, I would like to introduce to everybody Executive Director Valerie Mitchell-Veinotte. Welcome, Valerie. At this point I’d like to ask you to give some opening remarks to our committee.
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: Thank you for the opportunity to come before you today. The mission of the Royal Canadian Legion is to serve veterans, including serving military and RCMP members and their families, to promote remembrance, and to serve our communities and our country.
The Royal Canadian Legion was founded in 1926 by veterans for veterans. We advocate for the care and benefits for all who served Canada regardless of when or where they served. The Legion collaborates with key stakeholders such as the Veterans Ombudsman and the Veterans Consultation Assembly to identify challenges and press for change to ensure that veterans and their families receive the care and benefits they deserve.
Canada’s veterans serve to protect the very rights and freedoms we enjoy today. We owe them our commitment to ensure they receive all due care. The Royal Canadian Legion firmly believes this country has a solemn obligation owed to our military members. In addition to national advocacy efforts, the Legion works at the provincial and local levels to advocate for veterans and their families.
The Royal Canadian Legion’s Veteran Services Network works on behalf of veterans to ensure they receive all earned entitlements and benefits. We offer assistance and information on sometimes complicated processes. The Legion’s Veteran Services Network consists of volunteer Branch Service Officers who are the eyes and ears of the Veteran Services Network at the grassroots level.
Branch service officers assist veterans by identifying those with unmet health needs, then making appropriate referrals to professional Command Service Officers at the provincial and territorial level who, as mandated by legislation, provide assistance, representation, advocacy, and advice at all stages of the Veterans Affairs Canada disability claim process free of charge, whether or not the veteran is a Legion member.
In 2019, Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command Veteran Service Bureau handled 877 Veterans Affairs Canada files. We were directly responsible for over $13.1 million awarded in financial lump sums for back disability claims and 18 new monthly pensions and increases. In 2020, we handled 813 Veterans Affairs Canada files and were directly responsible for over $19.5 million awarded in financial lump sums for VAC disability claims and 14 new monthly pensions and increases.
As important to these monetary payouts are the medical benefits given to each person for the rest of their lives. Financial assistance is available for veterans and their families in need through Poppy Trust Funds at the branch level and the provincial-territorial level through Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command’s registered charitable fund, the Benevolent Fund.
The Command Benevolent Fund is an umbrella fund under which we have veteran and dependant financial assistance, Veterans Outreach Program and, until recently, Paws Fur Thought. Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command Benevolent Fund is supported primarily through donations from branch Poppy Trust Funds, Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command general funds, and donations from the public.
Emergency assistance is defined to shelter, food, fuel, clothing, prescription medicine and necessary transportation. It cannot be continued over an extended period but may be offered more than once to an individual. Assistance must provide a solution or contribute to a solution to the problem that gave rise to the need. Clients either present directly to Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command or may be referred by Branch Service Officers, Veterans Affairs Canada, other organizations and agencies.
Included too under the umbrella of the Benevolent Fund is Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command’s Veterans Outreach Program. The program’s mission is to provide enrichment to veterans’ lives and to assist in the transition to civilian life through connection to recovery-oriented care, programming, social services and peer support.
By fostering and forming mutually supportive partnerships with established community resources, health care professionals, all levels of government and like-minded individuals, the Veterans Outreach Program offers a hand up. Funded partially through donations from Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command branch Poppy Trust Funds, support has been extended through programs such as Veterans Transition Network, Porchlight, trauma relapse prevention programs, Operational Stress Injury Social Support Program, peer and family programs, Yoga for Trauma, Rally Point Retreat, Heroes Mending on the Fly, Mental Health First Aid, the Veteran Farm Project, Operation VetBuild, and Buddy Check Coffee Groups with full connection to the Royal Canadian Legion’s National Operational Stress Injury Special Section.
The Veterans Outreach Programs of Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command through its branches are constantly evolving in order to remain relevant and to best meet the need. The Legion helps thousands of veterans and their families each year and makes significant positive changes in their lives. The Legion understands the importance of honouring past sacrifices and acknowledging the courage of those who served and still serve today.
Through Remembrance Day ceremonies, the Poppy Campaign, commemorative activities, youth education programs and more, the Legion ensures Canadians honour and remember.
Legion branches are the cornerstone of communities across Canada and provide one of the largest volunteer bases in this country. With 1,350 branches from coast to coast to coast and nearly 250,000 members strong, we provide local services and supports to build a stronger Canada. Whether helping veterans, supporting seniors, providing youth sports and education programs, raising funds, volunteering to help those in need or simply offering a place to gather for fun and celebration, Legionnaires provide essential services in their communities.
Nova Scotia/ Nunavut Command of the Royal Canadian Legion holds jurisdiction over 100 branches in Nova Scotia and two in the territory of Nunavut. With necessary health protocols in place to protect all Nova Scotians, usual fundraising initiatives have all but halted for the Royal Canadian Legion branches in this province while costs have not. Indeed, some costs have actually risen. Insurance and the cost of food supplies in order to continue delivering programs such as Meals on Wheels, of vital importance throughout this pandemic, are but two examples of increased expenses.
Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command branches are required to submit a prescribed, comprehensive financial report to Command on a monthly basis. In the first six months of the restricted operations, we predicted a 15 per cent failure of Royal Canadian Legion branches in Nova Scotia. To date, we have lost not one.
Although currently in majority marginal, Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command Royal Canadian Legion branches have managed to hold fast only by drawing, where possible, on very minor reserves and through limited qualification for financial relief programs offered by each level of the governments. With targeted government pandemic support programs ending, particularly in the not-for-profit sector, ever-changing necessary Public Health safeguards in place, and an understandable general reluctance by the public to gather, the operational future of Royal Canadian Legion branches within Nova Scotia is most certainly at risk.
It must be understood that funds raised through branch Poppy campaigns cannot be utilized for operation of Legion branches. Poppy funds raised are held in trust at each level of the organization and may only be expended in direct support of veterans and their families in need, and in small part for youth education programs around the awareness and promotion of remembrance. Poppy Trust Funds cannot even be utilized to carry out Remembrance Day services or any other commemorative services. The use of Poppy Trust Funds is restricted, monitored, and closely controlled as prescribed in accordance with the bylaws of the Royal Canadian Legion.
The only capital approvements allowed through Poppy Trust Funds are a small percentage of costs for accessibility modifications so that no veteran faces physical barriers in accessing Royal Canadian Legion branches. All operational costs and infrastructure repairs and improvements must be funded through fundraising and membership dues.
As you well know, the Province of Nova Scotia has a unique program through Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage that provides cost-shared funding for capital improvements for Legion branches under the Legion Capital Assistance Program. While the required contribution by the branches may - like most programs - include the value of volunteer labour or in-kind donations of manpower and materials, an increasing number of projects require expertise not available on a voluntary basis, and businesses facing pressure during these times are less able to contribute to projects through donation of materials.
Just last week, the Province agreed to Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command’s request to alter the formula to a 20 per cent contribution by branches for the year 2022. It is believed that this reduction of contribution will better position branches to act on urgent infrastructure projects affecting efficiency and viability.
On behalf of some 20,000 members, I extend great thanks for this opportunity to come before you today to provide information so that you can best assist the mission of the Royal Canadian Legion branches in 100 communities in the province of Nova Scotia. Through the Chair, I’m pleased to provide any clarification required and to respond to any questions.
[2:15 p.m.]
THE CHAIR: I’m looking forward to a great discussion this afternoon with our committee. At this point we are going to have questions now. Just a reminder to all of our committee members to please wait until I’ve acknowledged you and your microphone is turned on before you speak.
As per a previous meeting, we had agreed that when you want to ask a question of the witness, to please raise your hand and I’ll keep a running list of the questions, and we’ll have a good opportunity to ask Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte many questions this afternoon that will be a great opportunity for us to get more insight into what you do and how we can help veterans more.
At this point, let’s begin with some questions. MLA Lachance, you might as well begin.
LISA LACHANCE: Sure, I’ll kick it off. I think a lot of us have a lot of questions. I just wanted to start by saying thank you for coming here and presenting. I’ve had a number of family members in the military and still serving, so I really know the value of the work that you do. I’ve been following very closely federally and nationally - the military is in a really difficult moment right now. This is a moment of reckoning around sexual violence and harassment. Yesterday, we saw the historic apology from the federal government around that.
I’m wondering what people are seeing at the branch level. Are you hearing about either the need for services for folks who experience sexual violence while serving in the military or are branches looking for information on how to respond to what’s going on? Just wondering what you’re hearing at the grassroots level.
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: Absolutely, there’s 100 per cent support for any serving military or CAF member who has served who has been affected and victimized by the conduct that the entire country has been so shocked by, uncovered in the last couple of years. Certainly, the apology yesterday was a beginning. We hold faith and hope and are pressing the Government of Canada to move forward with recent plans announced around transparency and justice.
To say how branches are feeling about that or reacting to that - we are the Royal Canadian Legion. We support veterans and their families. We support fairness and justice. By the very nature of being a member of the Royal Canadian Legion, they too would subscribe to that fairness, that justice, the transparency and the righteousness.
THE CHAIR: Just as an addition to what we’ve just discussed with the questions, we can allow for a follow-up question - one supplementary question to your question as well, if that is something that you’d like as well. MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: Are there any currently dedicated funded services through the federal government that you help administer or is that part of what the Legion is bringing forward in terms of saying, we’d like to be able to provide these services, but we need more funding? Just wondering about that part as it relates to sexual violence.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte.
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: There is a section of the National Veterans Service Bureau dedicated specifically to issues surrounding this greater issue. We do have a special section called Operational Stress Injury. Within that OSI special section, there is also a subgroup of victims and those affected by the sexual misconduct allegations - some proven, some yet to be proven - at that level.
We are providing peer support. We are pressing the government to move forward, as I mentioned in the earlier answer. If you’re thinking of something specifically or for someone specifically, I would invite you to reach out to me and we could make connections. Other than that, as an umbrella group, it would be through the OSI special section at the national level.
THE CHAIR: MLA Jessome.
HON. BEN JESSOME: Good to see you. One could say she’s a veteran of this committee. She’s been here a number of times, so thank you for your time ongoing. Also, MLA Lachance, thank you for bringing that important topic up.
Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte, you touched on the impact of COVID-19 on the Legion’s ability to collectively be sustainable. You referenced the limitations around the Poppy funding that can be deployed for operational expenses, so I’m wondering if you could dive a little more deeply into any challenges that may have been exacerbated by COVID-19 and just on that subject with respect to operational sustainability.
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: I would say in the beginning, the greatest challenge that the branches faced was in understanding how the restrictions applied to their specific operation. It was very cumbersome from my office to be able to connect with all of the government departments that we fell under the umbrella of. It was very clear for business and other organizations where they needed to dial into for information, but because we crossed into so many sectors, it was very difficult for us to gather comprehensive information that applied directly to Royal Canadian Legion branch operations. We fell under alcohol, we fell under gaming, we fell under bars, we fell under restaurants, community gatherings, meetings, business.
It was very difficult for us to pull together that information and provide it to branches in a comprehensive way. We were somewhat slow in being able to communicate clearly to them because we weren’t receiving the information, I felt, in the clearest manner possible.
That continues to be a challenge somewhat. For instance, it wasn’t clear to us if Remembrance Day ceremonies, for instance, fell under a special event in the restrictions, or if it fell under an informal public gathering. With 100 branches to communicate that to, the amount of time that it takes for us to be able to provide useful information to the branches is still somewhat of a concern. Communication was definitely cumbersome.
The restrictions, of course, just as with any other organization or business, actually impacted fundraising opportunities and revenue streams for branches, so a direct hit on the bottom line. We are a not-for-profit organization, so it’s not like there are tons of reserves or there are extensive lines of credit that we can utilize. Of course, the longer we’re closed, the more we have to do when it is time to entice people back to gather in the branches.
We do have some branches that are facing some major infrastructure situations that there doesn’t seem to be enough funding for us to address, so I’m not sure what the outcome of that will be. It may actually be what brings some of these branches - as in their buildings and their property - to closure.
The programs, of course, that we deliver were affected, certainly at my level. The peer support programs, which are vital connections - especially to the ill and injured veterans - absolutely had an impact on those we serve. Although not the best case scenario, our branches did form committees to telephone veterans in their communities and stay in touch - some on a daily basis, some on a weekly and monthly basis.
The impacts have been great. I know that you’ve all heard impacts from every segment of business and organizations in Nova Scotia. Hopefully, that provided you with some information.
BEN JESSOME: Thanks so much for that thorough response. I can’t undervalue - or maybe I can, but I’ll try not to - the work that you folks have done over the course of the pandemic. I appreciate that we all had to be nimble, as we all experienced whether we were in the House or elsewhere. The communication that was available was never as seamless as we might hope, so I appreciate your ongoing patience and diligence to serve your members.
In your opening remarks, you also noted that there were different levels of government that provided funding support. The provincial government would have participated in that as well. Last August, I believe it was, we created some funding for the Capital Assistance Program, I believe. Could you talk a little bit about how that funding during the COVID-19 world was useful and helpful to the Legion?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: The Legion Capital Assistance Program is an annual capital assistance program specifically for Legion branches. I’ve been around for 12 years, and as I said, it predates me. It’s been capped at $100,000 for the 12 years that I have been around.
There were other grant programs made available to us, though, through the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage throughout the pandemic - much-needed programs. We’re very grateful for them. One allotment of funds saw us able to support Meals on Wheels programs in seven communities in Nova Scotia and one school breakfast program - so well used.
Partial funding also was provided to us so that we could provide our annual funding to the Veteran Farm Project, which if I had a lot of time, I’m sure you’d really enjoy hearing about that program. Basically, it’s a horticultural healing program by veterans out in Sweets Corner toward Windsor. They grow the food, basically, and pull it together and bring it to us. We distribute it to veterans who are food-insecure.
[2:30 p.m.]
With those funds that were available to us through the provincial government, we were able to actually expand that program to 40 families in Cape Breton on a one-time basis. Nonetheless, it was for Thanksgiving and it was much appreciated. The other part of the program is that we provide to food-insecure veterans and their families in numbers about 80 between Truro and the Bridgewater and HRM area. Those funds were greatly appreciated and very well used in that initiative as well.
There was another program that provided us with funding to support our service to veterans, and it was in the total amount of about $70,000. Annually, branch Poppy Trust Funds are assessed at 10 per cent assessment on the balance in their Poppy Trust Funds as of the 30th of September each year, and that 10 per cent is actually remitted to my level of the organization, which supports the Service Bureau, the representation and the application of benefits to veterans and their dependents.
Because the Poppy Campaign, of course, didn’t raise as much funds last year as we would have hoped in other years because of the pandemic, and again were affected this year, we utilized those funds to support our Service Bureau and to alleviate the 10 per cent assessment from the Branch Poppy Trust Funds so they could hold those at the community level to further help veterans and their dependents at that level.
That funding was greatly appreciated. Kudos absolutely to the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage, specifically to Natasha Jackson, who is just phenomenal at opening doors and providing me and my team with information and opportunities and letting us know what’s available to us. Actually, it was through Natasha Jackson and Communities, Culture and Heritage that I finally gained entry to all of the stakeholder meetings at the provincial level that actually affected our organization. Tremendous work and tremendous support by that office.
THE CHAIR: MLA Taggart.
TOM TAGGART: Thank you, Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte, for being here today. I just want to say before I start that I’m a proud associate member of Branch 72 Legion in Great Village. Little bit of props here - I think we’re the only dry Legion in Nova Scotia, and we are - no?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: One of.
TOM TAGGART: Oh, disappointed. Anyway, it’s a very active group. I can’t say that I do as much volunteering there as I should, but I’m certainly about there.
With respect to the Meals on Wheels, I just can’t remember if they took part in that. I remember taking the forms to them. I can’t remember if they took part in that, but part of that, before COVID they would have a free meal one day every month, so they’re a great outfit and hard workers. I had to give that little prop to them, if you don’t mind.
My question is: Could you talk to us a bit about how the Legion has adapted to changing demographics in the communities where you operate and how you see this evolution going forward?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: As I mentioned, veterans outreach programs remain fluid. We tend to reflect the communities where our branches are. Like many communities in Nova Scotia, the demographic is older. Like many organizations, we find we have fewer younger members that we can count amongst our comrades, but that’s not to say that they don’t support the organization or support the branches. They attend functions, they participate in darts and pool leagues that we have in branches right across the province, and they support some of the social events.
To speak to how we are meeting the demographic, we are a reflection of our communities. We carry on events and activities that our members and our communities wish to see. If, for instance, in your community of Great Village, you don’t have veterans in the millennial age range, then chances are there aren’t necessarily going to be programs or activities that speak to that particular demographic.
We do find in the organization overall that the “younger veteran” - they’re not joiners of anything, really. They’re in an age bracket that socially thinks globally, rather than locally. I think that’s because of the information that is available to them on issues that are faced by individuals on the other side of the world and perhaps are not as aware of similar issues that are actually happening in their own communities. I’m not sure if that answers your question, but we are a reflection of our membership and our communities.
THE CHAIR: MLA Taggart, is there a follow-up?
TOM TAGGART: I think you really hit the nail on the head on that demographic issue. I’ve often really kind of wondered why a lot of my friends, and a little bit younger - active and retired military - didn’t engage. I think I got a pretty good answer there. I never really fully understood it.
My follow-up to that is: Could you talk a little bit about any strategies you might have with respect to finding new memberships and that sort of thing? I recollect that when I joined a Legion, 12 or 14 years ago or whatever, I had to have a military family member. I believe that I’ve seen recently that there is a bit of a campaign for new members and they may have eased that a little bit. Am I correct? I’m sorry, I talk too much. Maybe you could tell us your strategy on recruiting new members.
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: Thank you for sharing that information and giving me the opportunity to say that once upon a time, many years ago, it was so that you had to be a veteran in order to be a member of the Royal Canadian Legion. They then expanded that to include associate members, which means that you are a direct family member of the veteran, and expanded it further then later to affiliate membership, where you could become a member if you supported the goals, missions and objectives of the Royal Canadian Legion. That’s been the case for quite some time.
Quite frankly, just prior to the pandemic, membership was up about 63 per cent nationwide in the Royal Canadian Legion. You’re right: there is a newer initiative in place right now whereby the Royal Canadian Legion is offering direct family members or spouses or children who are of age a one-year free membership in the Royal Canadian Legion after the member has retired. We do have a program in place whereby an individual retiring from the CAF is entitled to a one-year free membership within the Royal Canadian Legion right now, so we’ve expanded that to their partner or their spouse and their direct adult children.
I’m open to hearing any suggestions or strategies that you may have as a member of the branch of Great Village, Nova Scotia to increase membership at your branch. It’s very much a branch initiative that will increase membership. We can provide the structure, we can communicate the goals and objectives, and it’s up to the branch to reflect what is called for and needed and wanted in their community and the branch’s membership.
THE CHAIR: MLA Hansen.
SUZY HANSEN: Once again, thank you for the presentation. It’s still informative. I’m hoping that as we continue on with these questions we’ll gain a lot more information on how we can help and assist and learn more as we sit around the table and discuss these issues to help our veterans and those who have served us.
My question is on culturally specific supports. A panel of four experts - Robert Wright, Cynthia Jordan, Lana MacLean, and Sharon Davis-Murdoch - at the Lionel Desmond inquiry have pointed out the gap in cultural-specific mental health supports. They said it was clear that Mr. Desmond was reaching out, but there was not a fit between his needs and the health services. We know that systemic racism was at the root of his challenges, but it wasn’t being addressed. My question is: Would you agree that it could be difficult for veterans to find culturally-specific care?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: Absolutely.
SUZY HANSEN: As well, do your outreach programs address the needs for culturally specific peer support?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: There’s no delineation in our peer support programs. These are veterans helping veterans and veterans’ families supporting each other. In the manner in which you’re asking that question, I can’t speak to that. These are peer support groups of people who have, first and foremost, a common culture of service in the military. That’s what brings them together initially. I can’t speak further than that. I’m not sure, and I would expect that perhaps that is specific to each group.
I can tell you that nationally, the Royal Canadian Legion has initiated a new committee called Operation Harmony, which is studying and making recommendations on inclusion within the organization. That committee is only months old so it’s really just establishing their terms of reference at this point, but I’m sure you can find out further information by checking the website at legion.ca. I hope that’s answered your question. I’ve answered it as honestly as I could.
[2:45 p.m.]
THE CHAIR: MLA Barkhouse.
DANIELLE BARKHOUSE: I appreciate you being here today and the information you’ve given us. I’m a long-time fan. I think 14-15 years ago I was activity director for the Legion and helped them out municipally, which leads me partly to this question.
There are municipal grants that legions can take advantage of. Could you tell us a bit about any external challenges facing the Legion that might be impeding the organization from doing their work to help veterans? What are your big external challenges, basically, right now?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: We have external challenges when it comes to the branches at the grassroots level, but the primary challenges we face are policies, processes and procedures that we must work with under Veterans Affairs Canada.
I received a report two weeks ago that told me that Veterans Affairs Canada in the first application process were actually working on April 1, 2019. We have veterans without support services, without medical assistance or medical attention who submitted applications first in 2019. Here in Nova Scotia, we don’t have to imagine what that lack of care and those gaps in care actually means to veterans, their families, and their communities.
External challenges probably at the branch level would be increasing costs to keep buildings and properties upgraded. Many of our buildings are community warming centres. They’re places where community events are held. Groups meet there. We even run income tax assistance programs from Legions and of course, you’re not far from an area and big supporter of one of the Legions that is a great example of what they do in the community and what they offer in the community.
Absolutely, I would say the biggest challenge is with properties and buildings that were built when communities still had schools and their own medical centres and large populations. Those populations have decreased or have very few newcomers to those communities, and those big buildings still need to be supported without the community there necessarily to support the fundraising required to keep those buildings up.
DANIELLE BARKHOUSE: You actually answered my second question in your first question. I just might state I could feel your emotions and your pains when you were talking about these veterans who have still not received any help since 2019. I acknowledge that, and I feel that with you.
THE CHAIR: MLA Young.
NOLAN YOUNG: I think we’ve alluded to some of these things already, but one question that I did have on my mind is: Can you talk about the relationship the Legions had with the Province over the past few years, and if there were any gaps within the relationship between government and the Legion?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: I guess the only thing that I would respond to that question with is that, in the time I’ve been with the organization, the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs has certainly been very proactive in bringing us to the table to stay abreast of concerns that affect the veteran community and their families, and the challenges, successes and celebrations within our organization. We have always been thankful for that.
My office has always been open to any MLA who wishes to consult or discuss, either individually or as part of another committee, and MLAs have always been aware - as far as I’m aware - that they can reach out directly to my office should a veteran or a veteran’s family member reach out to you looking for assistance. Other than that, I wouldn’t have a comment.
NOLAN YOUNG: I just want to say thank you. There’s a strong veterans presence in Shelburne County and in my family as well. I appreciate all your hard work and dedication, and thank you for your card, and I’ll follow up.
THE CHAIR: MLA Duale.
ALI DUALE: I’m blessed to be part of this committee for one reason. This is my first time for politics, and this is the second committee I’m part of. Also, I’m aware of other people who are part of the committees. I felt this committee is one of the non-partisan, non-political committees, which I really believe that’s a good thing. In other words, you’re lucky. You have a group of people who actually come from different political perspectives, but all of them are here for you. Also, I thank you for your service and what you have done and what you do for members of the community.
My question, actually two of my colleagues asked you in a different way, but I’m actually going to put a direct question. The government is huge. With your report, you only mentioned one department, the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage, who assisted you. Is there any other department that could have a link to the services you provide that we can address your needs and get the support that you need?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: This committee is key to our organization. With your commitment to taking your work on this committee seriously, you have the opportunity to learn and take the advice and the counsel of those who will appear before you and advance that to a level that can actually affect change. Change is critical in the processes of Veterans Affairs Canada in providing care, entitlements, and benefits to the veterans that you serve and their families and the communities and areas that you represent.
I’m very thankful to hear the seriousness and the depth of the questions at this table today, and I’m thankful as a Nova Scotian that your roles on this committee seem to be taken seriously. This is a key committee to affect change. That is the true mission and goals of the Royal Canadian Legion. I’m not sure what other departments could be more helpful than Communities, Culture and Heritage - perhaps a certain amount under the auspices of Community Services.
Homelessness and the risk of homelessness for veterans in Nova Scotia is a serious issue. It’s of great concern. We expend hard-earned charitable dollars in housing veterans in hotels because we cannot find affordable housing for them. I know this is not a new issue or new topic to you. You’ve all been grappling with this for many years, you’re well aware, but it seriously affects the veteran community as well.
Quite frankly, the government departments that I’ve had to work with in the 12 years that I’ve been with this organization - the public servants that I deal with in those departments have always been sympathetic, have always done the very best that they can do within the framework that they’re provided to work in. Any doors that I’ve knocked on have been opened to me.
I can only be thankful that in Nova Scotia that we still have this culture of caring for each other and uplifting each other. I’m pleased with my contact with every government department up to this point. Hopefully, that answers your more direct question.
ALI DUALE: First of all, to your point, the day I was assigned this committee, I did my due diligence to educate myself. I did attend the veterans breakfast and met individuals, listened to their personal stories and their struggle. Quite honestly, one of the things that got my attention, one gentleman who was very close to where I was sitting told me I wouldn’t be here if this breakfast and this space wasn’t available to me.
The way he said it to me got my attention - even though being there, nobody was given money, nobody was given anything. It was just being there and having people around him and willing to listen to his struggle. For me, that wasn’t good enough. I visited the Legion, met some of the leaders and asked questions, their concerns and what have you.
To your point, I did my personal due diligence to be educated, to engage. I’m encourage you: keep knocking on doors. You never know what’s going to come out. I would encourage you to engage any department. That could have a huge affect on your service and what you provide for the community.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, MLA Duale. At this point, I would like to call for a five-minute recess. We’ll reconvene in five minutes to carry on our questions.
[2:58 p.m. The committee recessed.]
[3:07 p.m. The committee reconvened.]
THE CHAIR: I would like to call our meeting back to order. We’ll continue on with our questions. Where we will be running up against the clock soon for our questions, after the recess now, we will just limit the questions to one question without a follow-up so we can make sure we get around the table and people have more of an opportunity to ask some questions of our witness.
Our first questioner after our recess is MLA Jessome.
BEN JESSOME: Welcome back, everybody. I’d just like to ask a question related to some comments from the opening statement. Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte, you referenced that Paws Fur Thought was no longer covered through the Benevolence Fund. Can you elaborate on that comment, please?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: For those who may not be aware, Paws Fur Thought was an initiative that was stood up about nine years ago whereby specially trained service dogs were matched with veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder through the organization Paws Fur Thought, which we at Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command were partners in. Paws Fur Thought has been a tremendous success. We have paired hundreds of veterans in Nova Scotia with post-traumatic stress service dogs. Some were cross-trained for physical alert services as well.
Just before the pandemic, the supply of service dogs became a concern throughout North America actually, and with the lack of Canadian standards for service dogs, we felt that we needed to deal solely with a provider and a school in Kansas. The standards were of the highest level and actually married well with the public access licensing permitting in Nova Scotia, which we also helped to develop through Paws Fur Thought. But because our organization only has jurisdiction in Nova Scotia and the territory of Nunavut, the requests were coming from all over the country. It got a little bit too big for us because we couldn’t go outside of our jurisdiction.
Wounded Warriors Canada was operating in the service dog world in the rest of the country, so we thought that this would be a better opportunity for Paws Fur Thought and to also be able to meet the need considering the low level of service dogs available through Wounded Warriors’ connection with other schools that are actually in Canada, and a couple of others in the United States.
Even though we’re very proud of our partnership with Paws Fur Thought and all of the work we were able to do, it was better for Paws Fur Thought to have it move on to a larger organization or an organization that could operate nationally, whereas our command could only operate within Nova Scotia and the territory of Nunavut.
THE CHAIR: MLA Taggart.
TOM TAGGART: I’m sorry. I just thank you again, Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte. I don’t know if we’re allowed in this setting to speak to people across the way, but Mr. Duale’s comments really caused me to think a lot there.
You asked me the question about how to increase membership. I don’t really have an answer to that. It almost seems like the concern for veterans or sympathy or support - it’s almost as if it kind of maybe skipped a generation. Maybe we didn’t have that brutal - we went a while without conflict that touched us here at home, but I see it returning.
Now, this is a little bit off, but I often reflect on it. So many veterans came home from the early wars alive, but broken that nobody knew about. Now with social media or mass media or whatever, they’re coming home alive but broken and for the most part we know about it. This might sound wrong - and I’m anxious to hear your thoughts on it - but some kind of a marketing campaign to bring that back and to get the young people to engage. They’ll do it. I’m sure they’ll do it.
I recollect the events in Bass River. We have the Veterans Memorial Park. I don’t know if you’ve ever been in it. It’s beautiful. The school kids became really engaged. That really sort of grew. It grew because of Dr. Ewing’s passion, but really when we were in the midst of the early days of the Afghan conflict, or whatever the right terminology for it is, people we knew died. There were people we knew who came home without their limbs and it really started to touch people again.
There are two points here with young people. I think that they’re there. They’re ready. They’re passionate again. We just need to encourage them to become engaged. The other thing that I think that maybe we could take a little bit more advantage of is in places where we have cadet clubs. One of my children went through the cadet system, which is just absolutely amazing. To this day, she is still passionate about the military and Remembrance Day. I’m wondering if somehow we can start to tap into them, too.
I’m sorry I’m talking too much, but I really want to hear your thoughts. In my short time in the Legion, we’ve gone from every Remembrance Day we would have a dinner that night, and one of the veterans would talk about their experiences. Guess what? I’m not sure that we have any left who can tell about their actual experiences.
That’s being lost. I guess where I’m going with that is they’re dying. The people who we really joined a Legion for and really supported in the earlier wars and conflicts are dying, so we desperately need new young people who are passionate and committed. I just wonder if there couldn’t be - it’s strange to think about a marketing campaign to draw young people to a Legion, but I think they’re there. I think they’re willing to go. We just have to remind them and encourage them and tell them what we need them for. I wonder what your thoughts are on that.
[3:15 p.m.]
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: The organization is structured so that we have a national level of the organization, provincial and territorial level of the organization, and at the community level we have the branches. Royal Canadian Legion branches have a tremendous amount of autonomy. Each branch would be responsible for initiatives to increase memberships that would reflect their communities and their catchment area. Those initiatives take place at each level and follow the jurisdiction of each one of those levels.
I can guarantee you that there are extremely strategic marketing plans well in place at the national level of this organization to increase membership. Of course, we all benefit from that. At my level, the provincial and territorial level, the focus is on helping to strengthen our branches, absolutely, but more on veteran outreach and providing advocacy and support to the Veterans Affairs disability claim process.
It concerns me somewhat to hear you say that the veterans are dying. I’m the daughter of a veteran, the sister of a veteran, and the mother of a veteran. All three are very much alive. They’re all in three totally different generations: one Korean; one UN NATO Croatia, Bosnia; and my son is an Afghanistan veteran. We may not have veterans from wars beyond World War II in some communities, but I guarantee you we have many veterans in Nova Scotia very much still with us.
How they relate to each other is somewhat different, I believe - and this is my opinion - than how necessarily the World War I and the World War II veterans related to each other. For instance, most of the veterans who we would call from the Afghanistan war time are generally not still serving in the military because they’re ill or injured. How many of us have said of the World War I and the World War II veterans: gee, you can’t get them to talk about their experiences, they won’t tell you any stories. After many years, eventually we did hear some of their stories, but that was many years’ distance from what they experienced.
To say that we know they’re there, but they’re not sharing their experiences with us - some of them are still internalizing and trying to make sense of those experiences themselves. That’s my only input to your comments.
THE CHAIR: Thank you. MLA Lachance, I think had a point of order. I didn’t want to interrupt the witness in her presentation. You may present your point of order.
LISA LACHANCE: I don’t actually know if it’s officially a point of order. I definitely didn’t want to interrupt the conversation, but I am concerned as we get started - I’m new to this committee and how we operate. I’m wondering about how strictly we want to stick to a more direct line of questioning. In a role that we as the MLAs ask questions to the experts, I’m just conscious of time and the mandate of this committee.
Basically, I think we should be aware. I was concerned that our discussions are perhaps not quite appropriate for a legislative committee in terms of their approach.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, MLA Lachance. I think that’s a discussion we can probably have when the witness maybe is not here and how we proceed going forward. I’d like to take your point of order and we will have that conversation in committee business or in discussion when the witness isn’t here. Is that okay? MLA Taggart, did you want to make a comment before we move on?
TOM TAGGART: First of all, I want to apologize if I kind of said too much there, but I need to clarify. I wasn’t suggesting, or at least I hope I wasn’t suggesting, that the folks who come home from Afghanistan - I thought they were speaking more than the ones that came home from - I thought that’s more public, but anyway. I apologize for saying too much, but I do think that young people . . .
THE CHAIR: Thank you, MLA Taggart. I would remind us all, in mindful of the time, just to keep our comments very brief before we do ask a direct question of the witness. That would be great. MLA Hansen.
SUZY HANSEN: Thank you again for all your lovely responses, Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte. You mentioned about housing, which we know on a number of levels there’s a crisis. There’s a need for it in many different facets. A veteran called me and suggested this thing and sent it to me. It said that the Ontario Government just announced $2 million to build up to 25 tiny homes as part of a veterans’ village in Kingston.
With collaboration with federal, provincial and municipal governments, the Ontario Government will be building for those veterans in collaboration with Homes for Heroes. Is this something that could benefit our veterans, because you were mentioning about the hotel costs and how much that would be. I just want to know your thoughts because I wasn’t exactly sure how much the price was that you were putting out for hotels or housing supplements of some sort for those veterans.
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: Thank you very much for that question. We would welcome any initiative to bring affordable housing specific to veterans to Nova Scotia. We just need a bigger partner. Unlike branches, we don’t have fundraising initiatives at our level of the organization, but I follow those initiatives quite closely and would welcome our participation or consultation on how we can make that happen.
THE CHAIR: MLA Harrison.
LARRY HARRISON: I want to thank you for the honesty in your answers. It’s really helpful. I was talking to a chaplain in the armed services a few years back and he was dealing with a lot of the younger ones coming home. He would hear their stories and the stories that he heard were taken internally by him so badly that he was considered to have PTSD.
I guess my concern is number one, what can the government do to help you help these folks, because you’re talking about cases that are maybe even two years old. A lot of these ladies and gentlemen are going to fall through the cracks, and with that they really shouldn’t. I talked to a couple who had it, and it’s an awful place to be. Just a comment.
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: We could spend a lot of time on so many issues - and I thank you so much for your sincerity. I would encourage you to go to the Legion.ca website. It very clearly outlines the issues that the Royal Canadian Legion is pressing the Government of Canada on, and most of those issues relate directly to the matters that you mentioned in delay of medical care primarily.
We have all kinds of stories of people who have gone through life savings, have run up lines of credit, who have lost their homes, waiting for entitlements that when they’re finally gotten to are approved. In the meantime, they’ve been further injured by the very process and the very government agency that is expected to be responsible for their care.
I encourage all of you to go the Legion.ca website to educate yourselves, and then to further those concerns and press for callings at the federal level for the changes that are required in this process that have been heralded by now three Veterans Ombudsmen, by two Canadian Armed Forces Ombudsmen.
It’s there, it’s identified, we can’t seem to address the same problem that I’ve certainly been involved with in the 12 years that I’ve been with the organization.
THE CHAIR: MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: I think I’m switching gears a little bit, but another function that Legions often serve is during emergencies: either search headquarters, warming centres, what have you. I’m wondering how that role in community impacts Legions overall in terms of budget. How do you work with the Province and EMO when those sorts of situations evolve? Just a little bit about that experience.
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: We do utilize other sources of funding for accessibility modifications, for modifications to become warming centres, and branches are very good at making direct application to government programs for those purposes.
Where we have no sorts of funding but Legionnaires and branches just make it happen are in cases such as the terrible days of the Portapique horrors, and those days following. A couple of our branches were actually opened as support centres for RCMP that were involved. Of course there were costs involved with that, which was the absolute least of our worries at the time, but it’s events or situations such as those that we make ourselves available and the funding for that type of thing has to come from fundraising, which is severely impacted right now.
[3:30 p.m.]
We are a not-for-profit organization, so any funds we raise are expended. We have no great reserves. Legionnaires find a way. We find a way to live up to our true mission and our goals and objectives with whatever sources we have to tap into. Often that will be perhaps them coming knocking on your doors as constituents and saying, what is available to us.
Often, they’ll call me and say, we have this emergency. The first thing I say to them is that the shortest route is go to your MLA and ask, what can be made available to us. You’re the doors to that type of support and that help, so expect to hear from them. I’ll make sure they have the list of all of the MLAs that are on the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. I hope that answered your question.
THE CHAIR: I can speak for all of us - we’re ready and willing to take those calls any time. MLA Barkhouse.
DANIELLE BARKHOUSE: Earlier you had said in your introduction that you were up 63 per cent. Congratulations, that was fantastic - pre-pandemic. I’m wondering if you are staying at that or if it’s lowered or if it’s at 70 per cent now. Do you know those numbers? If you don’t, I completely understand. I’m totally putting you on the spot.
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: Members in the Royal Canadian Legion have until the end of January to pay their dues to be counted among the membership, so no, I don’t have that number until after the end of January. We have a month’s grace. So if you haven’t paid your Legion dues yet - because the Legion has been closed, you can’t go in there to pay them - you do have until January 31st.
DANIELLE BARKHOUSE: As it came out . . .
THE CHAIR: Sorry, MLA Barkhouse. We’re not going to do follow-ups, but I’ll put you on the list as the next question. We’re going to go to MLA Jessome right now.
BEN JESSOME: Go ahead.
DANIELLE BARKHOUSE: No, that’s fine, thank you.
BEN JESSOME: How long is your list, Mr. Chair?
THE CHAIR: There’s you and there’s no one on the list after that.
BEN JESSOME: Go for it.
THE CHAIR: MLA Barkhouse.
DANIELLE BARKHOUSE: As the question came out, I thought, wait a second, are those numbers from two years ago or this year. The Legions are closed in some cases, but they’ve opened up from Phases 4 and 5. I’m just wondering how that is affecting the capability for the veterans and the members to meet. Have you seen if they’ve upticked as soon as the doors opened or we went into Phase 4, or are they still slowing off with the coming in?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: Absolutely, the Veterans Outreach Program and the veteran peer support programs - as soon as we were able to accommodate the numbers, they came back in full force. As a matter of fact, in some cases, we had new participants, so even more.
The members - it depends on the community because of course it depends on the cases very much that we’re seeing in different regions in the province and how that’s being reported. Then of course, it can change rather quickly. My office this morning, there were a lot of calls saying, what the heck do we do now about our New Years levee - because of the changes that were announced yesterday.
It’s very difficult. We have to remember that these branches are run by volunteers who are doing their very best to understand and to be flexible and to protect themselves as well, to keep themselves safe. It has certainly been a challenging, draining time on these volunteers trying to run an operation when the ground continues to move under their feet. They also understand that the measures necessary are to protect us all and are in full compliance.
THE CHAIR: MLA Jessome.
BEN JESSOME: Could you touch on the services that the Legion provides with respect to the families of service men and women? That’s one group that I don’t think we’ve spent a bunch of time on today. I want to make sure that the committee knows that work that you do to serve those who serve with our military members.
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: We support programs that are peer support programs for families. Through the Operational Stress Injury Social Support Program, which is a joint program between DND and Veterans Affairs, we provide funding that goes beyond the funding that’s made available to that program to provide enrichment opportunities and psycho-educational programs on self care and living with trauma, trauma in children. We provide funding through those programs to families, which includes the children of the ill and injured.
There are also other peer support programs and groups for the families of the ill and injured, and some of the same programs - the Trauma Relapse Prevention Programs, for instance - have components to them that address the needs of the families of the individuals. There are other programs that we support such as Rally Point Retreat - and I know that they’ve witnessed before this committee. I’m losing track of time with the pandemic. I don’t know how many years have passed or months, but I know this committee heard from Rally Point Retreat. That retreat is open also to family members of the ill and injured, and we support Rally Point Retreat as well.
The Mental Health First Aid programs that we support are also open to mainly partners, not necessarily to the children of the ill and injured. I’m sure there’s more, but that’s a general overview.
THE CHAIR: Are there any other questions before we move on to asking Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte for her final statement if she’d like to give one?
Okay, Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte, would you like to leave us with a few comments?
VALERIE MITCHELL-VEINOTTE: Thank you so much for your attention today. Thank you so much for your conscientious attitude toward this meeting and meeting with me today. Thank you for your work on this committee, what you have done and I’m sure what you will do to support veterans and their families. As a daughter of a veteran, the sister of a veteran, and the mother of a veteran, and a Nova Scotian, I thank you for your service to the people of Nova Scotia and to the veterans and their families of Nova Scotia.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte, thank you very much. Your thoughtfulness and all your answers to the questions and your passion for what you do in your organization and the people you represent is very clear. Thank you for your candidness today, and you are free to leave now if you like.
I might just bring to everybody’s attention, Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte, before you leave the room. I’m not sure if this would pertain to you or not, but this was handed to me: the Granville door is locked at 3:45 p.m. Members who have cars parked at Province House will be required to walk around the building to get their vehicle.
Our committee will move on to committee business. Is there any committee business?
MLA Young.
NOLAN YOUNG: I’m going to make a motion and it’s just to amend the topic name and the witness that was submitted by the PC caucus in our original list of suggestions.
I move to amend the topic name of the witness submitted by the PC caucus in our original list of suggestions. The topic of Legal Capital Assistance Program should be amended to now read: Legion Capital Assistance Program. Instead of Nancy Shepherd for the Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage, we move Natasha Jackson, Director of Communities Nova Scotia, as our witness.
THE CHAIR: We have a motion. Is there any discussion on the motion? MLA Jessome.
BEN JESSOME: I’m just going to be that guy for a brief second here and remind my honourable colleagues from the government side of the floor that there was a government-communicated expectation that we would see motions in advance whenever possible. I appreciate the change here - I don’t have any issues with it - but in the interest of working collaboratively and getting along, it was a government suggestion to transfer those motions in advance.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, MLA Jessome. That’s a fair point, duly noted. For next time, we will ask everybody that has a motion to please contact the clerk in advance of the meeting. Is there any other discussion.
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
Is there any other committee business? MLA Jessome.
BEN JESSOME: On a couple of occasions, my honourable colleague, Mr. Taggart, made comments with respect to the lack of consideration that some youth or a generation has for our veterans. It was said not once, but twice.
I think I appreciate what MLA Taggart was trying to say, but I did want to offer him an opportunity to clarify his comments. He alluded that there has been a generation that skipped in terms of having consideration for the work of our serving men and women, and that youth somehow - not his words - didn’t care about our veterans. I just wanted to offer him an opportunity to clarify that commentary, also considering that our only member of the gallery today is a young person.
THE CHAIR: MLA Taggart, would you like to respond?
TOM TAGGART: Absolutely. First, I want to apologize because I didn’t mean to talk like that. I just kind of got talking and I wasn’t trying to talk up time. I clearly didn’t articulate myself properly because what I was saying was it seems to me that the younger generation today really wants to be engaged. That was kind of why I said that. I think that they could be a great benefit to Legions. I look at my own Legion and it’s getting smaller and smaller. That’s what I was talking about - so we can get out and get the young people more engaged in Legions. It may not have been proper.
I didn’t mean to say, skip a generation. It was certainly the wrong wording. We went through the time from what I’ll call the big wars to where we got into the war in Afghanistan. Once again, we started bringing soldiers home that were damaged. I wasn’t meaning skipping a generation. When Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte mentioned about the peacekeepers, I forgot about that. I have a lot of friends who were peacekeepers in some pretty crazy places and they’ll tell you stories.
[3:45 p.m.]
I was kind of off base there. I was really trying to talk to why we need to get a way to get more young people involved in the Legions. I’ll call Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte and have a chat with her because that was never my intention. My intention was more to talk about how I actually think that the young people are there waiting to get in and to become engaged in the Legions and support the veterans. That’s what I think, where I was trying to get to on that. I appreciate that.
THE CHAIR: I’d like to acknowledge our gallery member who’s here. I hope this has been an informative afternoon for you.
MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: I was going to speak to my point of order, but first of all just to provide a quick introduction. Jack Baker is a Grade 12 student at Citadel High School and was really involved on my campaign. He’s been a co-op student in my office for the last few months. This is his last co-op day, so we thought a committee meeting might be good, but he’s sticking around to kick off my youth advisory committee for the constituency. Jack, thanks for joining us today.
I just wanted to speak to the - I don’t even know if it’s a point of order, but my concern about what was going on. To summarize, as we can see, it led to some challenges and some things had to be said. I guess I would encourage the Chair as Chair to just step in. I think that what you had to say was really important, but I think - I don’t know. Maybe a direct meeting. The business here is to receive information and respond with questions. That’s my understanding.
THE CHAIR: I appreciate that, because I was thinking about doing that, so as I’m learning my role as well, the point is taken. I think it’s just a gentle reminder to us all to stay on message and to get to our questions as quick as possible to respect everybody who’s in the key to speak.
MLA Hansen.
SUZY HANSEN: Maybe this is something that I can ask afterwards, but I was interested in a few things that Ms. Mitchell-Veinotte had mentioned, and I’ll have to think of that, and maybe it is for me to follow up on, but something that maybe we can be looking into, what was the committee name? It was the national something of (Interruption) Operation Harmony. I know that was new, but I think that might be something we might want to be informed on. I don’t know if that’s for me to put forward or something that we need to actually set an agenda.
THE CHAIR: I think there’s probably an opportunity. We’ve selected our first six topics. I think there’s an opportunity in the next round of topics to bring that forward as something of interest to you to get more information on.
SUZY HANSEN: I just think that would be good for us since it was part of what she was just talking about.
THE CHAIR: If there’s no other committee business, just a notification of our next meeting on January 18, 2022, from 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. The topic will be Women and Gender Diverse Veterans’ Issues. The witnesses will be Dr. Maya Eichler, Canada Research Chair in Social Innovation and Community Engagement, head of the Centre for Social Innovation and Community Engagement in Military Affairs at Mount St. Vincent University.
If there’s no other business, this meeting is adjourned.
[The committee adjourned at 3:49 p.m.]
