MR. CHAIRMAN: It is 2:00 p.m. and all the chairs are taken so that must mean we not only have a quorum but we have full attendance, so why don't we begin the meeting now. Today we have an unusual event. We have two guests with us today and I thought for about the first 15 minutes or so of the meeting - from 2:00 p.m. to about 2:15 p.m. - we will hear a presentation. This is out of the ordinary for this committee; we have never done this before. In fact, the committee indicated a while ago it didn't want to do it but we had a change of heart last month and have indicated that we would like to hear from Mr. Rick Clarke and with him is Mr. Peter O'Brien. So the meeting is up to you now, Rick and Peter. You have about 15 minutes.
MR. RICK CLARKE: I would like, first of all, to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee for breaking with normal procedure, I guess, and allowing us to come in to talk about concerns we have in regard to some of the boards and commissions, or the nomination appointment process for some and to also say, for the record, too, that we do support and encourage this three-Party process on the selection because we think it is so crucial for those who depend on or appear before these boards and commissions to know that it does receive a fair degree of scrutiny through the three-Party process.
Initially, we had written to talk about our concerns in regard to the Occupational Health and Safety Advisory Council but our concerns have expanded somewhat beyond that. Before going into those, I will ask Peter to have a couple of comments because it turned out - this wasn't planned - that we bumped into each other down at the Legislature and have a lot of the same concerns, so we thought it would be worthwhile to come here together.
MR. PETER O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Rick. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you for meeting with us today. Let me say, as well, that we certainly support the concept of an all-Party committee to review all appointments before they are made and we congratulate the government for having implemented it. We think that is very important.
We are here because, unfortunately, in that process there are now some potentials for appointments that, I don't want to say are not appropriate, because we don't know, and that is the truth from our point of view, we don't know some of the people who are being appointed, and I am not just speaking for myself. Three associations met with the Premier several weeks ago. We raised the issue with him and, as promised, we have written the Premier asking him to reconsider some of the approach and it is not to do away with this committee because we believe this is crucial. What we would like to see happen is that for those boards and commissions where stakeholder input has traditionally been a very serious issue and where it continues to be and very important to ensure the validity and credibility of those boards and commissions in the eye of the private sector, long term, that stakeholders be consulted prior to nominations going forward to Cabinet and then to this committee, which is what we understand to be the process.
A good example of that is one that will be coming up in September. There will be an employer representative on the Workers' Compensation Board who is leaving. His term will be up. Those of us who are close to that, know now that the kind of person who should be nominated is someone who has very significant financial capability because that is one thing at least one board member needs. In this particular gentleman's case, the other members of the board trust his judgement and knowledge of financial issues quite extensively. There is a need for that on an ongoing basis.
Because we are so interested and because we have become so involved in those things, the stakeholders were aware of that and what we would propose, and what we have proposed to the Premier, and I guess today are proposing to you, is that appropriate organizations - be they labour unions, be they management associations - be approached to make a minimum of three nominations for an appointment. We don't have any difficulty with government and this committee making the final selections and if they don't like the selections, turning them back and saying, look, these selections are inappropriate for this reason or that, do you have others?
What we are trying to do here is to ensure that the long-term credibility of appointments to boards and commissions is maintained and improved wherever possible in this province and I think that is the purpose of this committee. That is the reason I was pleased to be able to come and meet with you today. We believe that we have a role to play. As an association, I have two roles: one is to provide you with appropriate nominations; the other is to make sure that when that person is nominated, to provide them with the support
from the business community that I represent and the coalition of business associations that I am involved with.
There are now only three of us, by the way. We have walked away from the ad hoc committee which is mentioned here - I should tell you that - because some of them wanted to play on their own, and that is fair ball. The association of employer groups now is the construction associations, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business and the Canadian Restaurant and Food Services Association. Combined, we represent close to 7,000 firms in this province. So we are here on behalf of those firms. We believe that we have a role to play and we want to be able to play it and we thought it was appropriate to come here today to tell you what we had basically told the Premier and what we have since written to the Premier suggesting that we be allowed to make nominations. We actually suggested for provincial nominations that from a business association point of view, because there are so many of us, that the nominations should come from a minimum of two associations that have at least provincial offices so that you would know that they have broad support in the business community. I think Rick has similar views from the labour perspective.
MR. CLARKE: Again, I point out, what I didn't thank you for was the Labour Relations Board issue that has been stood twice because of a pending meeting we had with the Premier. We had a very similar meeting as Peter and his related organizations have had with the Premier on concerns on stakeholder-type of boards and commissions. We believe we did have a successful meeting with the Premier and that the concerns we raised regarding the Labour Relations Board, the Occupational Health and Safety Advisory Council, the Labour Standards Tribunal, the appeal panel for the Occupational Health and Safety Committee and the Workers' Compensation Board . . .
MR. O'BRIEN: And the Apprenticeship Board, and there would be others for other sectors.
MR. CLARKE: And the Apprenticeship Board, yes. There is a new one now that this committee has just appointed, that was the Highway Employees Council. The Premier and the two deputies who were at the meeting seemed to have an understanding of our concern and to put the concern as clear as we can, I guess, is that these boards and committees are supposed to have equal representation of employers and employees. The Occupational Health and Safety Advisory Council, as I indicated, was the letter that triggered this meeting, or the opportunity to appear. We do not believe that that is properly constituted, the board, in fact, that is what led to our meeting with the Premier and then we evolved into discussions on the other boards, that it meets the letter of the Act. We have had legal opinion on that but our view is that we are trying to work within this process to try to get proper balance. The proper balance is necessary because we support the process as labour and business.
When you look at the Labour Relations Board, we are terrified of having people appointed who don't have the understanding or the experience with the Labour Relations Board and how that would impact on decisions that may come out down the road and the reaction to those decisions. We have been very supportive of the Labour Relations Board process in the past, as we have been with the advisory council. The Department of Labour could tell you that when information went out from the advisory council for new regulations and the Act, it was recommended by our respective groups that there were very few presentations made on it because it was worked out with the stakeholders. We are losing that now and there has been a lot of good work that has taken place that we are fearful to see lost. It all can impact on labour relations in this province.
As a Nova Scotian who is concerned about opportunities in the future, I don't think we need to see a breakdown in labour relations in this province or even a perception of it for people that we may be trying to encourage to come into this province. We have a very good labour relations record in this province - it is kind of misconstrued in the national media at times - but for those who know the history, we have a good record. We are trying to go any avenue we can to ensure that that relationship keeps going.
Peter is another source because he has been involved on the Labour Relations Board almost as long, but I had asked for a letter from Leo MacKay who had been Executive Secretary with the Federation of Labour for 30-odd years and has been on the Labour Relations Board for almost that long.
MR. O'BRIEN: Leo wouldn't appreciate it if you said odd. (Laughter)
MR. CLARKE: Just on the history of stakeholder, and in particular we focused on labour's names coming forward, and that was an agreement that had been established when the Premier was Premier Stanfield. It was an agreement that was established with that government of the day and has been adopted by every consecutive government since then that labour names would come through the federation.
We would branch out, not everyone that sits there has been or necessarily is an affiliate of the federation, but we try to find the people that are more qualified or most qualified or have been before the Labour Relations Board. We do that for every board and commission. We do the work on looking for gender representation, we go public-private organizations, we do geographic balance. I think it was the Premier, with one of our names that we put into the workers' compensation, he did an announcement on it that it was the first woman, and by the way it was a woman of colour that was appointed to the Workers' Compensation Board, and we put that name in. When we go to unions that represent men and women, we want two names because we are trying to break that block of the same groups of names coming forward. Again, we base it on knowledge and experience but also we look at the same thing that this committee looks at in putting names forward.
I guess, in a quick nutshell, is that the boards and commissions that we have listed, and I think we have both listed, are crucial in this province and in regard to labour relations and employers and employees working together. If we don't have trust and confidence in the process, if we have people that are there that neither side necessarily have confidence or trust or even know of the individuals, then there is concern.
Shortly after the Labour Relations Board issue was stayed again by this committee, we then received a letter from the minister asking for consultation. Now, consultation after the names are selected, after the names go through Cabinet and after they have appeared twice at this process really isn't what we normally had in consultation. We had put forward and responded - and I have a copy of the letter that I can leave with the committee - back to the minister, and this is from the federation's perspective, that we were not aware, and I have been in contact with the Labour Relations Board, of a need for additional people. There is no posting for those in the media that we are aware of; the last posting in the media the Labour Relations Board was not part of it.
As you may recall, back when we did the amalgamation of municipalities and health care and education sectors, the Labour Relations Board did appoint a number of extra people to deal with the rush, but that rush is over. People that I have talked to within the Labour Relations Boards, not only labour representatives, is that there is not a need nor a request for additional people. In our response to the minister we outlined that but we also outlined that there is only one vacancy that we are aware of - now, these other three must be new positions - and that is a labour vacancy or an employee representative vacancy and that's Laraine Singler who has moved on to the federal board. We had submitted in the letter to the minister two more names for consideration for that position when it is called for and both names are women.
A break in that is that we historically put forward one name, but rather than get into that, we put forward two names for review and selection because we understand that they are not our boards, so we did put forward two qualified people for those positions.
MR. O'BRIEN: Just to comment a little bit, first, I was on the Labour Relations Board for 15 years. I would no longer feel qualified to be reappointed to that board because I am not actively involved in labour relations today and that has become much more complex than it was. I am still fairly close to it but I would not want to sit there today to judge labour-management cases the way we did in the past, and we went through some very difficult times in the old days including things like the Digby school bus case, for those that remember, it was 19 days of hearings, it was a very difficult case. Today things are more complex. I think it is important to have very knowledgeable people and people who are accepted by the communities, by both the management and labour communities.
The other thing that I wanted to say very quickly is I think where the thing seems to be slipping a little is that I think the decision, which was a legislative decision, as I understand it, to advertise has got you caught in the point where you have these names and what do you do with them. I think what you need to do is to advertise and also where there are stakeholder organizations to go out and ask the stakeholders as well, so you do have an opportunity to look for the very best.
I think the kind of people, for example, that I have nominated over the years, I have had to go ask. They are not the kind to come forward on their own because they tend to be busy people - competent people usually are - and they tend not to come forward on their own when you ask for ads. So I think you need a combination of both.
I think the change is a major step in the right direction and I think we all agree on that, the idea of coming here, of having the nominations finalized here I think is a great move for Nova Scotia. I think there is now the matter of filling in where there is the need for very knowledgeable stakeholder representatives. That's the big concern, I think, from the employer point of view.
MR. CLARKE: A step further on that, Peter. Sometimes you have to twist arms to get them to come forward.
MR. O'BRIEN: Oh yes, we have done that.
MR. CLARKE: There is one other point, too. I indicated we had concern on the advisory council and we had gone for an opinion. Before doing that, we went through the freedom of information and two things stood out on the forms when we received them: one is that on boards and commissions that designate equal representation of employer and employee representatives, they are not separated as such, they are not designated as such in the names that come before you. All they are is names, either member or alternate, and you have no way unless you do a detailed review of the thick material - I was surprised at how much we did receive when we went for it - read every bit of that to know exactly where they are and some of them are not clear until you really go through it closely, because some people may have been in the workforce and then got elevated to a management position. So, that is one thing that stood out glaringly when we reviewed that.
The other, and I just photocopied Page 1 of Form "A" and there is no name identified on it, but on question 2 and this is on the advisory council, it indicates which industry sector people are drawn from but it also says that six employee representatives were recommended by organized labour; not so. They weren't and that is one of the issues that we are looking at to challenge, if we have to go that route, but they weren't recommended by organized labour. We wouldn't recommend two supervisors to represent workers.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We are about at the end of your presentation.
MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Can I ask Mr. Clarke one question, Mr. Chairman?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MR. TAYLOR: I just had a question, just for clarification and maybe I misunderstood. When you were making your comments earlier on, did I understand or misunderstand you to say that the positions for the Labour Relations Board weren't advertised?
MR. CLARKE: Not by the last posting for all the boards and commissions, Brooke. As a matter of fact, I went through it again this morning.
MR. TAYLOR: It was in the Chronicle-Herald on August 29th. It ran previously to that advertisement.
MR. CLARKE: This is the only one we could get hold of.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much for coming in today.
MR. O'BRIEN: On behalf of the employers group, we thank you and we will be communicating our views, the same views that we have communicated to the Premier and to the other two Party Leaders as well, so they will know exactly what our position is. We thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thanks very much. Are we ready to continue with the meeting? The first section is the Department of Labour and you will see that there are three names and they were all stood March 30th and April 6th. What is your wish for today's meeting, please?
MR. TAYLOR: Couldn't we deal with this, Mr. Chairman, one appointment at a time?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Does the committee wish to deal with them one name at a time?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question first, please?
MR. CHAIRMAN: You may.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Did I understand, Mr. Chairman, from the presentations that we just heard that they actually indicated that there isn't a need for these nominees, that there aren't vacancies for them?
MR. CHAIRMAN: The Department of Labour said that apparently there is a need. They sent over three names. If somebody who is not part of the Department of Labour says there isn't a need, well, do you know what I am saying? The union guy can say anything he wants.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: So can the Department of Labour quite frankly, Mr. Chairman. My understanding is that there would be one vacancy and that there were two names submitted.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, there are three names.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Well, there were two names submitted for that one vacancy by the Federation of Labour and we don't see either of those names here.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, I don't know who they submitted. All I see is the names that are presented.
HON. KEITH COLWELL: Can I make a comment on that, Mr. Chairman? There is some misunderstanding with the presentation that was made here and I don't think the presentation was appropriate before the committee. I wasn't here at the last meeting, but that is just my opinion.
These three people who are put forward today are employer representatives, not union representatives, and they are needed by the Department of Labour. The Department of Labour says there are openings there for those positions. From what I can understand from information we received from the Minister of Labour, the Federation of Labour was approached and the Federation of Labour supplied the name of Laraine Singler, who evidently has moved to Ontario. So, that person can't be considered. We are waiting to get some more information back on that basis.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We had a motion a minute ago to start to review these names one at a time.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: The individuals who just spoke, Mr. Chairman, indicated that Laraine Singler had moved and that they did submit two names to replace her. The information we have on these three people is that two of them are management and one is labour, and the one for labour did not apply for this board but for Occupational Health and Safety.
MR. COLWELL: According to the Department of Labour, these are all employers' representatives.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: That is not what they told us in the response.
MR. TAYLOR: Actually, I believe Mr. Williams is an employee representative.
MR. COLWELL: Yes, Mr. Williams is. The other two are for employers.
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: That makes two employer and one employee representative.
MR. COLWELL: Yes, so far.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We had an agreement to consider these folks one at a time. You know, the meeting is over at 3:00 p.m., so it is going to be a long day.
The Department of Labour, Nova Scotia Labour Relations Board.
MR. COLWELL: Mr. Chairman, I so move John Coleman as member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is defeated.
The next name is Graham Downey.
HON. CLIFFORD HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I so move Graham Downey as member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is defeated.
Michael Williams.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, I so move Michael Williams as member to the Labour Relations Board.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Agriculture and Marketing, Crop and Livestock Insurance Commission.
MR. HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I so move Jerome Forbes and Gail Parker as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Business and Consumer Services, Nova Scotia Credit Union Deposit Insurance Corporation.
MR. COLWELL: Mr. Chairman, I so move Mary M. Boyd.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Community Services, Kings Regional Rehabilitation Centre.
MR. LAWRENCE MONTGOMERY: Mr. Chairman, I so move Robert Farris, Elaine Garland and Diana McDonald for the Kings Regional Rehabilitation Centre.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, could I ask that we deal with these also on an individual basis?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Go ahead. Would that be agreeable with the mover, Mr. Montgomery?
MR. MONTGOMERY: Yes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you want to start over again, please?
MR. MONTGOMERY: Mr. Chairman, I so move Robert Farris.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MONTGOMERY: Mr. Chairman, I so move Elaine Garland.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MONTGOMERY: Mr. Chairman, I so move Diana McDonald.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Round Table on Child Care.
MR. JAMES MUIR: Mr. Chairman, I would like to deal with those individually. I so move Shirley Forbes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MUIR: Mr. Chairman, I so move Nancy Granter.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MUIR: I so move Karen Murphy.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MUIR: Mr. Chairman, the next person who is listed there has applied as an owner-operator and is placed on there as a parent. Therefore, I would like to draw that to the committee's attention.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you want to move her?
MR. MUIR: No.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, you have to do something with her. You have to move her so you can vote against her.
MR. PETER DELEFES: Mr. Chairman, I so move Kim Scaravelli.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, just for clarification. I am not sure what my honourable colleague just said. I wonder if he could enlarge on that a little bit for somebody like myself.
MR. MUIR: The composition of the committee is specified, Mr. Taylor. What it is, you have two parents, one full-time licensed operator and all that stuff. People were applying, as I understand it, for one of those categories. She applied as an owner-operator and according to the documentation, she is on there as a parent.
MR. CHAIRMAN: With that explanation, are you ready for the question?
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: I know I am new to this committee and I apologize if I am stepping on any toes, Mr. Chairman.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Not at all, we are all new.
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: I am wondering if maybe that one could be stood down. Is that an option that can be put forward?
MR. CHAIRMAN: That is an option, not one that is done very often, but we could do that.
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: I appreciate Mr. Muir's comments and I think that we may need a little more time. As we are not familiar, I wouldn't mind if that one could be stood.
MR. DELEFES: Mr. Chairman, I assume Ms. Scaravelli is a parent as well.
MR. MUIR: Yes, she has kids in day care.
MR. CHAIRMAN: So, you would not wish to stand. You would like to vote on it?
MR. DELEFES: I will.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you ready for the question? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, I so move Karen Veinot.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, I so move Anna Weagle.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Social Assistance Appeal Boards, Antigonish/Guysborough.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Before we begin, Mr. Chairman, could I just note that again we have a list of applicants, I guess we would say 98 per cent of them came in late. All of these applications for Social Assistance Appeal Boards are dated in February and March, or some of them there is no indication.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you want to say anything about that?
MR. JAMES SPURR: Only that, as I stated at the last meeting, with respect, that is not something the committee, in my view, has jurisdiction over. You have names before you, you have to approve or not approve.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, again, I would say as I did during that last meeting that a number of these appeal boards have a large backlog. Unfortunately, some people have not had their cases heard since last August. I certainly agree with my colleague, the member for Cape Breton The Lakes; it is unfortunate that they came in when they did.
[2:30 p.m.]
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: If I may, Mr. Chairman, I will just make the point that I think it is part of our responsibility to look at what we advertised and what we say is a deadline. I feel it is part of my responsibility and that from these ads, 122 applicants came in. Why we end up with faxed-in applications in March, I am not clear; that is the reason I am raising the point. I understand the importance of getting the boards moving ahead and, in fact, I am not suggesting that they don't, but I think it is important that we start looking at our responsibility here and looking at what the expectations are.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Social Assistance Appeal Boards, Antigonish/Guysborough.
MR. HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I so move Monica Kennedy and W.A. (Bill) Malcolm as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Cape Breton/Sydney.
MR. HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I so move Robert Ferguson, G. Stewart Marsh and Elva Vassalo as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Cumberland.
MR. MONTGOMERY: Mr. Chairman, I so move Shirley MacTavish to the Cumberland board.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Digby/Annapolis.
MR. MONTGOMERY: Mr. Chairman, I so move that Joanne Dunn and Edson Hankinson be appointed.
MR. DELEFES: Mr. Chairman, I see there is no letter of application for Edson Hankinson at all.
MR. MONTGOMERY: Oh, yes, I believe there was a letter.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you ready for the question? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Halifax Regional Municipality.
MR. HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I so move Judith Robertson as a member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Kings/Hants.
MR. HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I so move Patrick C. Dooley, Pearl Galley, Judith O'Hara and Sandra Smylie as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
We are now into Inverness/Victoria/Richmond.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Since these came in on time, Mr. Chairman, I so move Margaret Laidlaw-Ashford.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You just had to say that, didn't you? I wish that you were my school teacher.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I do too. (Laughter)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Could you read off the rest of the names, or do you want to do them one at a time?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: No, I am fine with doing them together. I so move Anne Lévesque, Walter Ross and Doris Warren.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Lunenburg/Queens.
MR. HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I so move Patricia Jackson as a member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Pictou/Colchester.
MR. HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I so move Faye Acorn, Marlene Bonnyman, Ralph Jewkes, Ben D. Karrel and Judith MacLennan.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Yarmouth/Clare/Argyle/Shelburne.
MR. HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move this.
MR. MUIR: Could we go through those individually?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do it any way you like, it suits me to a tee.
MR. MUIR: I just raise one question which may solve it. I did not find a curriculum vitae for Mr. Wolfe in there. (Interruptions)
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: It is a reappointment.
MR. MUIR: Perhaps that is the reason.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you want to do them all at once, Mr. Muir, or do you want them one at a time? Okay.
MR. HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I so move H. William MacConnell, Clyde L. Nickerson and Ralph A. Wolfe as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Advisory Council on the Status of Women.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, I guess the composition of that committee doesn't call for any men, does it?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, it is up to you. You know you can hold out . . .
MR. TAYLOR: No, that is quite all right.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you want to make a motion for the Status of Women Advisory Council?
MR. TAYLOR: Yes, I will move the names en bloc, if that is okay, Mr. Chairman. I so move Karen J. Field, Shirley Jackson, Patricia LeBlanc, Margo Murley, Sonja Power, Mary Sampson, Sharon Sobol and Rita Warner as members of the Advisory Council on the Status of Women.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, before we vote on that, could I make a couple of comments. I noticed a couple of things, when going through this section of our booklet, again, a number of the applicants did not come in on time. This is really an important commission, as we know, an important advisory council. We are interested in people who can move an equality agenda forward, and at the same time reach out to people across this province and get the respect of people in the province. Quite frankly, there are some individuals nominated here that, from their résumés, I am not able to see what background they have that would enable them to serve on this advisory council in a way that we are hoping to have the council work.
MR. CHAIRMAN: If you prefer, we could do them one at a time and you could speak on each one as we come to it. Would you prefer to do that?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I prefer to do them one at a time, yes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is that agreeable with the mover, Mr. Taylor?
MR. TAYLOR: I suppose it would be, but I do not agree with the member's interpretation of the mandate of this committee. From reading it, it is to advance concerns that women might have, not just equality.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: That's right.
MR. TAYLOR: I am in no position to argue whether they are qualified or not; perhaps the honourable member knows something that I do not.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I guess the point I am making is that if we are going to be able to reach out in various ways and fulfil the mandate of this council, I think the curricula vitae should indicate some skills that people would have that would enable them to do that. That is all I am saying. You can come from a variety of backgrounds where some will serve a commission like this, and some would not necessarily have the kind of life experiences that would enable them to serve. I think we had 26 applicants, so we must have had a number to choose from. Again, we have people being recommended and their applications coming in in January, February and March.
MR. CHAIRMAN: In order to change, we have to get permission because it was suggested we do them en bloc. If you want to revert and go one at time, with your permission, do you . . .
MR. TAYLOR: That would be fine, Mr. Chairman. If the committee wants to go with them individually, that is fine with me. But based on my assessment of their curricula vitae, they appear to all be qualified. In fact, my only disappointment is that there is not a man among them.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you want to start reading the names one at a time and we will vote one at a time? You wanted to do them one at a time, so maybe you could read the names.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: It doesn't matter. I so move Karen Field.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I so move Shirley Jackson.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I so move Patricia LeBlanc.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I am not going to move people who came in late, so maybe somebody else should move the next name.
MR. HUSKILSON: I so move Margo Murley as a member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
This was nip and tuck. We have to have a show of hands, please.
Would all those in favour of the motion please raise your hand. Contrary minded, please raise your hand.
The motion is defeated.
We are back to you, would you start again, please.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I so move Sonja Power.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I am not interested in moving the next two individuals. Their applications came in late.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, I so move Mary A. Sampson as a member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MONTGOMERY: I so move Sharon Sobol.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I so move Rita Warner.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Education and Culture, Nova Scotia Agricultural College Foundation.
MR. MUIR: I so move David G. Martin, Dr. Nancy L. Crowe and Dr. Herbert F. MacRae, noting, Mr. Chairman, that there is a letter of support from the principal.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: They are all reappointments are they? Yes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: They are all fine people.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
St. Francis Xavier University Foundation.
MR. MUIR: Go ahead, who is the alumnus? (Laughter)
MR. CHAIRMAN: That doesn't mean anything. Would you like to move those one at a time?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Yes, but I would like to make a point first, Mr. Chairman, that there will not be any females on this foundation now that Rosemary Scanlon will be going off the foundation and they haven't seen it appropriate, I guess, to appoint a female. But I don't have any difficulty with the three names that are presented.
I so move Iain Boyd, Donald Munroe and Dr. John Sears.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you sure you wouldn't want to write them a note and tell them that these are held up until . . .
MR. MUIR: I think, Mr. Chairman, one of the reasons for that may be the development officer shifted there a couple of years ago and as you know, Iain Boyd followed . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Women in Engineering Scholarship Selection Committee.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I so move Lisa Melanson.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Finance. Would somebody like to make a motion?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Before we do, Mr. Chairman, I would just like to make a clarification. Since we were the brunt of some criticism over this particular board, particularly as of late because we requested information concerning it, if we remember last year in June, this board was part of a package that came to us at, I guess, one of our first meetings, a meeting where we had a motion by one of the members of the Progressive Conservative caucus indicating that we would put aside everything in the book until we straightened out our process to make our process clear and transparent. That took place at the June 23rd meeting. So, I would just like to make that clear that it wasn't a deliberate attempt by anyone to stall the appointment of this committee.
The second point I would like to make was that we did that in June and we met throughout the summer, so the Department of Finance had ample time to bring this board of governors back to us.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I think that is a very good point and I think that the Department of Finance did have time and they could have done it and they didn't. Would you like to make a motion, then, to accept that committee that is before us now?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I guess what we have in front of us today are the letters of application because there were no letters, just résumés in the book. I think the letters are here today, are they?
MS. MORA STEVENS (Legislative Committee Coordinator): Just a few.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would somebody like to make a motion, just to keep this thing going?
MR. MONTGOMERY: They were advertised, were they not?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Yes, this was advertised and these same names came up in June. It was just that they were put aside, I think. One thing I did appreciate was the breakdown that came with this package indicating that there were 22 applications and from what sectors they came from. So I appreciated getting that information.
MR. COLWELL: I would like to make a motion then, Mr. Chairman, that we move the members en bloc.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, would you care to read the names, please.
MR. COLWELL: I so move Ronald F. MacDonald as Chair; and Allan B. Bryden, Bernice Doucet, Robyn Peterson and Darcy Truen as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: Mr. Chairman, with regard to the next set, can we do them individually?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure. If you would like to start moving them, that would be helpful. This would be the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Fisheries and Aquaculture Loan Board of Nova Scotia.
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: All right, I so move Bernard Kennedy.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, let's move the first one first and the second one second.
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: Well, I have a concern with Ms. Fraser so I wasn't going to move her. If someone else wants to, I guess they can.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I would like to deal with them in the order they appear in the book, just for convenience. So will you move it and then we will vote on it.
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: Well, I prefer, since I am going to be opposed to her appointment, someone else should move Ms. Fraser.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, before we deal with that, I guess I need some clarification as to whether or not the minister signing off on one of the forms, if it is also appropriate that that same individual be writing a letter of recommendation. I am just asking the question.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Who are you asking?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I am asking you the question, as chairman of this committee. I really don't know the answer. I am asking, is it appropriate to have the minister signing off on a Form "A" and also doing a letter of recommendation for the individual because of work that she did during an election campaign? That is what the letter indicates.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I think this committee is pretty much charged with saying yes or no to the names that are appearing before us. Would somebody like to make a motion?
MR. MONTGOMERY: I so move Shelley A. Fraser as member.
MR. DELEFES: If I may, Mr. Chairman?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes. We are ready for discussion.
MR. DELEFES: This board does approve loans to fishing and aquaculture industries of up to $500,000. It is a very important board. One of the requirements is that people have an in-depth knowledge of the fishing industry. This first candidate, Shelley Fraser, to my knowledge, based on her résumé, has only knowledge in computer systems. She has no knowledge of the fishing industry, as I understand it.
MR. MUIR: I think it said business or fishing, Mr. Delefes, but I agree with what you said.
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: If I can just add to that, in her own résumé her objective is to seek casual contract employment as both a computer systems/software educator and web page design consultant. As far as I can tell, the loan board would not be dealing with any of that directly and, as has been noted by some of my colleagues, the only sort of qualifications she has is, as a reference she has the Honourable Keith Colwell, and we have a letter of reference from the honourable minister.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, that is not a bad recommendation.
Are you ready for the question? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
Could we have a show of hands. Would all those in favour of the motion please raise your hand. Contrary minded, please raise your hand.
The motion is defeated.
MR. KEVIN DEVEAUX: Mr. Chairman, I so move Bernard Kennedy.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Health, Dispensing Opticians Board.
MR. HUSKILSON: Mr. Chairman, I so move Marlene Bayers as a member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you want to do these all in one? Okay, carry on.
MR. HUSKILSON: I so move Alphonse Burke, John W. Butler, Dr. Lystra R. Dayal-Gosine, Susan E. Feltmate, Annette Knight, Allan Moss, G. Michael Owen and Mary M. Tizzard as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Nova Scotia Hospital.
MR. COLWELL: I so move Dr. John Ruedy as a member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Nurses Licensing Board.
MR. MONTGOMERY: I so move Linda Blades.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, I note - and I am surprised that my colleague, the member for Cape Breton The Lakes hasn't mentioned this - the nominee, Ms. Blades, her address, of course, is Shelburne, Nova Scotia, and if you look at the composition of the present board, there isn't anybody not only from Cape Breton, but east of Pictou on that board. In fact, I received a call from an individual speaking on behalf of LPNs who is very concerned that there is nobody east of Pictou on the board.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any further discussion?
MR. MUIR: I, too, Mr. Chairman, think the geography would litigate against this person.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any further discussion? Are you ready for the question? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The Nays have it.
[The motion is defeated.]
The Department of Housing and Municipal Affairs, Regional Assessment Appeal Courts, Central Region. Could we have a . . .
MR. MONTGOMERY: I so move Steven G. Zatzman.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Labour, Pay Equity Commission.
MR. MUIR: Mr. Chairman, I so move Margaret Blakeney, Davis Charles Edwards, Karen J. Field, Mary Dee MacPherson and Lorraine Sheppard.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Natural Resources, which is the logical place to find the Boxing Authority, could we have a motion.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I so move Blair Albert Boone, Bryan R. Gibson and Ian H. MacLaine.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Primary Forest Products Marketing Board of Nova Scotia.
MR. MONTGOMERY: I so move Sherman C. Mason and Eric Williams.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
That completes the book, to the best of my knowledge. Our next meeting will be May 25th and it will be in the morning, I guess, because there is probably a good chance the Legislature will be still sitting. It only opens on May 18th and I don't think they can close at that point.
MS. STEVENS: I made that assumption.
MR. CHAIRMAN: So that is a safe assumption. So is 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. suitable with everybody here?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: What day of the week is May 25th?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, it is Tuesdays that we meet, just like today is Tuesday. The member for Truro says 9:00 a.m. He is an early riser. The House may be sitting at 12:00 p.m. if we get into longer hours so 9:00 a.m. may be a more prudent time. With your approval, we will meet at 9:00 a.m.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, my colleague raised a point earlier on about this committee entertaining presentations.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It is 2:55 p.m.
MR. TAYLOR: Yes, it is 2:55 p.m. I am not going to take five minutes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Good.
MR. TAYLOR: I am just wondering if, in fact, our mandate provides for that. Perhaps there was an agreement at the last meeting to bring in presenters. I have no difficulty with the individuals that came in but that is the first I can recall that we have done that. In fact, I remember receiving written correspondence from the Minister of Labour to appear and we wouldn't see him. We rejected it. If we are going to entertain presentations, let's be consistent.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I wish you had been here last time.
MR. TAYLOR: I thought I was but I'm a little thick between the ears here. (Laughter)
MR. CHAIRMAN: It was a little unusual to have the folks appear today.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Clarke mentioned the Occupational Health and Safety Advisory Council. From my recollection, there is nobody on there from the third largest employer in the province, the trucking industry. There is not a name on there that represents that sector. If we are going to start splitting hairs and say who should be on and who shouldn't be on, based on presentations, that sort of takes away from our function, as far as I'm concerned. I'm against it.
MR. MONTGOMERY: Of course, there were boards that had the opportunity for input but there was no input. That is another thing that we should consider. They had an opportunity for that input from August 29th until today.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We are adjourned until next month. Thank you.
[The committee adjourned at 2:56 p.m.]
