MR. CHAIRMAN: I will call this meeting to order. Some members cannot come because of the weather. Tim is not here, I think Mary Ann McGrath will be coming in later to join us, I am not sure. If you don't mind starting, we will start. Is that okay?
MR. DONALD DOWNE: Yes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, appointments to ABCs. We should really have had correspondence on here. Before we get into the actual appointments, we will bracket it by two letters. You remember our last meeting, which I very much appreciate your willingness to have the meeting over the phone, a conference call, I appreciate that very much. Out of that meeting there were two letters that were to be sent - one, I understood I was to send right away and the other one we were to work on as a committee and decide what we wanted in it. The one letter that I was to send right away was simply to express to Mr. Keefe our concerns re the wording of one of the paragraphs in his letter. I did send that. Do we have a copy of it?
MS. MORA STEVENS (Legislative Committee Coordinator): I will get a copy of it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We will get a copy so you can see. I referred basically . . .
MS. STEVENS: I think it has been distributed already.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Has it been distributed? Okay. I referred basically to the relevant section in Hansard for him to read. I do have a letter from him that pertains to advertising issues
which I am going to bring up with the subcommittee later and I have his permission to share it. It is clear that he understood that he missed the boat. So that letter has been written.
The second letter that we will write as a committee, that we agreed to at that time, was one to all the various departments stressing timeliness in terms of appointments but we can leave that until after the ABCs and you can share with me what wording you want in that particular letter but that was agreed on at our last meeting, if you remember, those two letters. Are there any questions about correspondence then?
MR. DOWNE: Just for clarification, Mr. Chairman, you say the response back, we brought the issue up of how the department approached the issue. Do we have a copy of the response?
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, that isn't really a response to my letter. That was a letter that Alison Scott shared with me and I got Mr. Keefe's permission to share it with the subcommittee but it wasn't in response to my letter.
MR. DOWNE: I see, pardon me.
MR. CHAIRMAN: But I will share it with the subcommittee. You will be able to see it later.
MR. DOWNE: That is fine.
MR. CHAIRMAN: He has agreed. It is about advertising and the pressure of the advertising deadlines. Is there any more about the letter? We are getting copies of the letter I sent to Doug for you. I think they have been sent out but we will get you a copy so you can have it right now.
Let me just get my book out now, if you don't mind, and we will start into it. I think we all know the procedure now so we will just go ahead and whoever wants to start can start.
MR. BARRY BARNET: Mr. Chairman, I so move under the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries, the Farm Practices Board, Traci L.L. Curry as Chairman, and members at large: Betty Lou Scott, Fred A. Walsh and Robert Wilson.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion on any of these appointments? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay. Abstentions.
[The motion is carried.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: The next department.
MR. WILLIAM DOOKS: Mr. Chairman, I so move to the Department of Economic Development, Film Development Corporation Board of Nova Scotia: Bruce MacDonald, Director; Rita Lamontagne MacDonald, Director; and Mark Macneill, Director.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion on these names for this particular board? If not, I will entertain the question. Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay. Abstentions.
[The motion is carried.]
MR. RONALD CHISHOLM: Mr. Chairman, I so move to the Department of Education, Acadia University Foundation: George Bishop, Murray Herron, David A. Hovell, Leonard Sarsfield, and Douglas W. Trider as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion on these names?
MR. DARRELL DEXTER: Can I ask you a question about this? This is the second time that this has come back to us. Didn't we have . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, this is the foundation.
MR. DEXTER: This is the foundation, not the board.
MR. CHAIRMAN: This is just the money-raising arm, not the board of governors.
MR. DEXTER: Yes, that is what I was confusing it with.
MR. CHAIRMAN: This is the non-glamourous one.
MR. DOWNE: Not as confrontational.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Not as confrontational, although I see there are different sides on the board even now. (Laughter) It has nothing to do with Party politics though, does it?
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
[The motion is carried.]
MR. BARNET: Mr. Chairman, under the Department of Justice, the Law Foundation of Nova Scotia Board of Governors, I so move John S. McFarlane, QC, as Chairman.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion on this? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay. Abstentions.
[The motion is carried.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, our famous review board here.
MR. DOOKS: Mr. Chairman, I so move to the Review Board under the Criminal Code, Peter Lederman as a member.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you ready for the question? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
[The motion is carried.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Next department.
MR. RONALD CHISHOLM: Mr. Chairman, Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, Regional Assessment Appeal Courts, I so move for the Central Region: Robert G. Cragg, Gilles Deveau, Lena M. Diab, Kevin P. Downie, David F. English, Gavin Giles, Shawna Hoyte, David Snowden Johnson, Frank MacDonald, Paul Radford, Kent W. Rodgers, Peter Trask, Maureen Walden and Steven Zatzman as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, it has been moved. Is there any discussion on these names? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay. Abstentions.
[The motion is carried.]
MR. BARNET: Mr. Chairman, also under Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, Regional Assessment Appeal Courts, I so move for the Eastern Region: William Burke, Carole F. Gillies, Alexander W. Hudson, James MacIntosh, H.F. MacIntyre, Steven K. O'Leary, and Wendy E. Wadden as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion on these names or this board? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay. Abstentions.
[The motion is carried.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Some of these names you will want to put forward, won't you, Don?
MR. DOOKS: Mr. Chairman, I so move under Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, Regional Assessment Appeal Courts for the Northern Area: Ronald R. Chisholm, Paul Drysdale, David Mahoney and J. Mark McCrea as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: What does C. Med mean?
MS. MAUREEN MACDONALD: Club Med. (Laughter)
MR. CHAIRMAN: That is where we would like to be right now.
MR. BARNET: That just means that he won't be around during March Break.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I wonder how one can get on that.
MR. RONALD CHISHOLM: Mr. Chairman, for the record, my middle initial is M.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You are not the President of the Truro-Bible Hill Liberal Association?
MR. DOWNE: How would you know that?
MR. CHAIRMAN: It says it right in the résumé. I only know what is in the résumé.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay. Abstentions.
[The motion is carried.]
MR. BARNET: I see some partners there too . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, they were quite forthright. The next group.
MR. RONALD CHISHOLM: Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, I so move for the Southern Region: Patricia Colman, James DiPersio, Richard W.P. Murphy, Clyde L. Nickerson and Mark A. Taylor as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion on these names? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay. Abstentions.
[The motion is carried.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: The next slate.
MR. RONALD CHISHOLM: Mr. Chairman, under Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations again, the Regional Assessment Appeal Courts, I so move for the Western Region: David Proudfoot and Ronald B. Twohig, QC, as members.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion on these two names? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay. Abstentions.
[The motion is carried.]
MR. DOOKS: Mr. Chairman, I so move to the Department of Tourism and Culture, the Gaelic College Foundation Board of Governors: Lewis MacKinnon and Kenneth Verner, as Governors.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion on these names? You may remember that it was raised, geographic considerations, by Mr. MacKinnon and I think they have been met in this slate. They have been addressed. He was wanting someone from the area where the Gaelic College is.
MS. STEVENS: Victoria County.
MR. CHAIRMAN: So when you speak, we listen. Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay. Abstentions.
[The motion is carried.]
MS. MAUREEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, before we continue, I just want to, for the record, express some disappointment at the number of women that this government is bringing forward to appoint to these boards. No doubt many of the people appointed here today are qualified to do the task that they now will carry out but we just agreed to appoint 48 people to these boards and commissions and only 9 of these persons are women and 38 are men. That seems to be an abysmal situation.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We have expressed that, haven't we, to the . . .
MS. STEVENS: We have. It can always be reiterated.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Downe.
MR. DOWNE: I would like to speak in favour of the concerns of my colleague. It is always a challenge to keep that before the individuals who are bringing the names forward. I think there should be a fairness in this process with regard to gender equality. I think there should also be making sure that we talk about geographic representation but I think there should be representation in regard to the gender.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Barnet.
MR. BARNET: It is my understanding, particularly with the Regional Assessment Appeal Courts, that every woman who applied was appointed. The problem is that you have to get applications before you can make these appointments. Obviously it is an issue that has to be resolved at some point in time but there is no intent on the government's behalf to try to exclude women. All who applied were appointed.
MR. CHAIRMAN: There were 33 applications and 33 were appointed. So it is a two-pronged . . .
MS. MAUREEN MACDONALD: Can I just comment on that?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, please do.
MS. MAUREEN MACDONALD: I think that, fair enough, that may very well be the situation but the remedy then, it seems to me, is to hold positions open and reapply and specifically put a call out, be a little more proactive. What we have done here, in fact, is preclude the possibilities for some period of time now for more equity or parity in our boards and commissions.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Barnet.
MR. BARNET: Again, to that same point, talking specifically to the Regional Assessment Appeal Courts, obviously that is a time-sensitive matter and people have received their assessment notices and those appeal courts have to be developed now. You are right, there are opportunities and this is just a one year appointment and maybe some concerted effort should be made in the future to make sure that next year the appointments are more gender balanced.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I personally think that it is the responsibility of all our caucuses, too, to encourage people in our ridings to apply. I am always harping on the geographic one, but to encourage people to apply. I have a suggestion, we do have a letter that we are to write regarding time lines, we can also reiterate in that what is in the green book regarding gender balance and geographic balance, if you would so like to add that into the letter.
MS. MAUREEN MACDONALD: I think that is an important thing to do.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The next item is the letter Mr. Samson requested that we write, and we all agreed to, regarding time lines. Do we have the actual wording of what was requested in Hansard? Mr. Samson asked me to write Mr. Keefe and that has been done; the letter has been copied, you have seen that. Then it was Mr. Downe who said, "I would suggest that a letter be sent to the ministers, with a copy to the deputies, to keep them on focus that there is a schedule, there is a process . . .", and to review where they are on their appointments, so basically a timing issue. So are we agreed that I will write a letter encouraging them that there is a schedule, there is a process they have to follow encouraging them to follow it and not to put us in that situation again, and also encouraging them to keep in mind the mandates of the committee on gender and geographic balance? (Interruption)
MR. DOWNE: I think the issue was that lately we were getting more and more people coming in at the last minute or trying to get things pushed forward or asking the board or committee to adjust this or adjust that. I think really it is just that they will push you right to the wall, unless you let them know that hey, these are the rules; you are big people, you understand that, and for heaven's sake get your act together. That is the bottom line of that particular point we wanted to make. I am glad we were able to accommodate the last situation but clearly, the staff and the minister have a responsibility to keep on top of their department and that was one issue of it.
I would like to add to that the comments we made just a minute ago with regard to gender equality, a better gender balance and again, focusing on regional representation. I think
those are valid points. I think the emphasis should be to make clear that they have a responsibility to come forward with appropriate timing.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We will write that letter. Do you want to see that before it is sent out or are you happy with me just sending it out dealing with those issues?
MR. BARNET: Just as long as it is reflected by the minutes it is fine.
MR. DOWNE: We will tell you if it's wrong. (Laughter)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
A wise person in one of my churches, my organist, gave me all this trouble once and told me it is better to ask forgiveness than permission. (Laughter) So we are agreed that that letter is sent out, okay, that has dealt with the letters.
The next agenda item we have is under our other hat, which basically was the main thrust of this committee before 1993, and we have been looking at the state of culture in the Province of Nova Scotia and we have had some very interesting submissions. The question is, do you want more people to come in or are you ready to ask for someone from the Department of Tourism and Culture to come in at this stage? Are there other sectors in the culture industry you would like to hear from or in the music industry?
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, John Alphonse represents the union side of musicians and I would like to know if we would be able to invite him to attend, I would recommend it. We meant to put a letter together to you before this, but I would recommend we have him in before we go further with the department.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any problems with that? Darrell, are you in agreement with that?
MR. DEXTER: I was thinking of something completely different.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We are wincing in pain and I thought . . .
MR. DEXTER: You will find out in a minute.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We usually have two to maximize, so do you want someone else from the music industry at the same time or do you want to move to some other sector or do you want someone from the Department of Culture to begin to wrap this up? (Interruption)
Rob Cohn has sent in a submission and he has a lot of suggestions if we want to keep on with the music industry. So what do you want? We have agreed that John Alphonse will be invited in. Is there another name you want? Do you want within the music industry? Do you
want to just have the one name? It seems like not enough agenda item for just the one meeting. We could tack it on to an ABC meeting as we did with Mr. Cohn. I personally would be interested in getting somebody from the book publishing industry, I would think, but that is just my druthers. Do you want to go directly to the Department of Culture and have someone from the department?
MR. DOWNE: I am just wondering a little bit. There was some talk down the road whether film and music could be tied together. We have done some on that and I just wanted to know if you want to have the Nova Scotia Film Industry Association?
MS. STEVENS: They were in before the Economic Development Committee.
MR. DOWNE: Yes, they are part of the Department of Economic Development. I think the issue there is whether or not they are going to retain their position with Economic Development or are they going to go over to Culture. I think that is an issue I would like to discuss in this committee structure, because there are some advantages for Economic Development and the film industry's perspective versus that of Culture being tied into everything from soup to nuts. So I think it would be a very interesting meeting.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We had a suggestion for someone from the film industry.
MS. MAUREEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I think that is a great idea. Maybe we could think about bringing in Salter Street in light of their sale to Atlantis, to look at the implications for the industry here.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any thoughts on that?
MR. DOWNE: I agree with that in that the film industry would talk a little bit about it but it would be good to have them there as well. I would concur.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I sense a general agreement with that. So at our next meeting, we will have John Alphonse and someone from Salter Street Films. The date of that would be?
MS. STEVENS: Either March 6th or March 20th, unless you want to meet during March Break?
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, we don't want to meet during March Break.
MR. DOWNE: March 20th is fine.
MR. BARNET: We may not be able to get them on that short notice of March 6th.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, March 20th, is that what I am hearing?
Is that agreed for March 20th?
It is agreed.
It would be at 9:00 a.m.?
MR. DEXTER: The other possibility that I just want to throw out for consideration and we can decide, I guess, after the next meeting if we want to continue these, is somebody from SOCAN. Many of us know peripherally what SOCAN does and what interest it is trying to protect but I don't think any of us, at least I certainly don't, have any kind of in-depth knowledge of exactly what role they are playing. It is a bit of a follow-up on the discussion that we had around the whole Napster issue and what is happening with royalties.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I wrote a friend of mine who is President of the Chartered Accountants of Canada and he wrote someone in the States and wrote back to me with some interesting information. I sent that out, so you have that in front of you. I think Rob also sent us . . .
MR. BARNET: So we are going to try to see if we can get somebody from SOCAN, is that what we are going to do?
MR. DEXTER: We can try to do that now or we can decide on that at the next meeting.
MR. DOOKS: There are a lot of questions unanswered about that, especially in the rural areas. There should be a charge on that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Let's see, Mora, if we can't get either Alphonse or Salter Street Films, if we can get someone from SOCAN for that meeting, and if we can get both of those then we will do SOCAN later?
MR. DOWNE: We are talking about the film industry as well as Salter Street together?
MR. CHAIRMAN: I thought we have done the film - no, the Economic Development Committee did that. Usually we try to only have two, if you want to do it jointly.
MR. DOWNE: That is what I am trying to point out here. I think it is a great suggestion to get Salter Street in as well as the film industry association to talk about where we are going because there are movies, shows and things of that nature that all tie together. Actually, I would see that as being one meeting, that would be a very interesting session and then John Alphonse either before or after. If we tie in John Alphonse with that, I don't know if we would have enough time to get through it all.
[9:30 a.m.]
MR. DEXTER: It would make sense to have John Alphonse and the SOCAN people at the same time.
MR. DOWNE: Exactly, do those two together.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
John Alphonse and SOCAN together and whichever one we can get into the time slot. Which one is the more time sensitive in your opinion? Which one would you like to do first if we had our druthers?
MR. DEXTER: Salter Street.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We will try for Salter Street and someone from the wider film industry. Any other discussion on that? So the date we are looking at is March 20th at 9:00 a.m. We shall be in touch with you if we can't get anyone but we will certainly try.
Our next ABC meeting is on Tuesday, March 27th.
MR. DEXTER: I have another question unrelated to that discussion and it is just of a very technical nature and something I would like to have referred. When I was looking at the question of what qualifications were needed for appointment to the Regional Assessment Appeal Courts, it says that it is necessary to be a solicitor. I am wondering what exactly they mean by that? Do you have to be a qualified member of the Bar? I wondered because Mr. Nickerson is retired and I don't know if he would still be a Bar Association member. Is it enough that you graduated from law school? Would you have to have passed the Bar admission course? If we are going to pass this information on to people in our constituencies, I would be interested to know exactly what they mean by, it is necessary to be a solicitor.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That says that in the Act, doesn't it?
MR. DEXTER: I wonder if you could just ask the department and maybe just send it back to me.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Does it say that in the Act?
MR. DEXTER: I didn't have time to actually run through it and track it down.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It doesn't say that in the Act really, it just says that in the forms, doesn't it? So we will track it down and find out what they mean by that from the department, I am not sure that the Act specifies that.
MR. DEXTER: It is just if we are going to pass the information along . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: We will send that information out to you. When is the next round of - it is not going to be for a year so we will bring it to the next meeting. If there are any other agenda items I am open to them. I don't have anything else.
MR. BARNET: I move adjournment.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The meeting is adjourned.
[The committee adjourned at 9:34 a.m.]
