MR. CHAIRMAN: I will say good afternoon to the members of the Standing Committee on Economic Development.(Interruptions) This is, of course, our organizational meeting. Everybody knows Darlene and I guess we all know each other here. Whereas it is the first meeting of the committee, I guess it is appropriate that we do elect a vice-chairman and then we will go on and set the committee's agenda. Do we have some nominations for Vice-Chairman of the Economic Development Committee? I understand it has been pretty much protocol to nominate a member of the Opposition.
Mr. Frank Corbett.
MR. FRANK CORBETT: Well, this is unusual for this meeting to be so quiet. I don't think we have discussed this among ourselves.
MR. WILLIAM ESTABROOKS: You are going to nominate me, aren't you?
MR. CORBETT: That is right. Because I have such a long way to go, I am going to nominate Mr. Estabrooks.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Estabrooks is nominated. Are there any further nominations?
MR. KENNETH MACASKILL: Mr. Chairman, I move that nominations cease.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The motion is that nominations cease. Hearing no further nominations, we will declare Mr. William Estabrooks as Vice-Chairman of the Economic Development Committee.
Now, you have some names before you that were circulated by the NDP caucus, relative to witnesses, and I don't know if, in fact, the Liberal Party or my caucus has submitted names of potential witnesses to appear before the Economic Development Committee. However, the NDP, " . . . would like representatives from the Department of Economic Development and ACOA to come before the committee to discuss the criteria for loans:", and they also ask, "Should the Department of Economic Development be involved in untendered contracts.".
Now does the Liberal caucus also have some names that they would like to submit today?
MR. DONALD DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, we haven't had a chance to discuss that matter. When they called for the meeting, I think it was just understood that this was really kind of an exploratory meeting, getting a sense of where we are going and then from that we anticipated that we would be going back to our respective caucuses. So, obviously, we didn't go forward at this point so we would like to have a chance to present our position and our thoughts after this meeting. We thought the first thing to do is to have a meeting and then we will take a look at some of the priority items that we would have to deal with.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That seems fair. We have some names, actually; individual members in our own caucus have worked up some names of potential witnesses. Would it be agreeable then, by committee members, if we can reach a consensus, that we could deal with perhaps the issue that the NDP has submitted for our next meeting so we can get our meeting scheduled and make arrangements to bring in a witness so we can perhaps have the committee meet to deal with what it is supposed to be working at.
MR. ESTABROOKS: How long are the meetings usually, two hours?
MR. CHAIRMAN: The meetings are scheduled for two hours, yes.
MR. ESTABROOKS: It would seem to me - and I sat in on another committee this morning that dealt with a little bit fuller agenda - that if it is agreed that we could have someone in from ACOA, which would be the initial, if I understand correctly from what was discussed in our caucus we could begin with that and then the other part of the meeting, the first part or the second part, whichever is more convenient, to look at the other priorized items we might want to have at future meetings. So what I am saying is, at our next meeting, I think we should begin as opposed to just coming back again. If we have someone we can agree on to begin with and have those people in for a period of time, then the rest of the meeting we could decide on our remaining priorities.
MR. CHAIRMAN: If I could read into the record for the benefit of all committee members - I know you have a copy of our mandate - it is, "For the greater certainty, the Economic Development Committee is established for the purpose of considering matters
normally assigned to or within the purview of the Department of Economic Development and Tourism and the Minister responsible for the Department, the Department and Minister of Transportation and Public Works, and matters relating to the Technology and Science Secretariat.".
If I might, I received a request from the Truckers Association of Nova Scotia - and again, I would just submit that name as a potential witness - and they also would like an opportunity to come in and appear before the committee and make a presentation and have a Q&A period and so on and so forth. I don't know if the ACOA representatives would take up the full two hours or should we perhaps dedicate an hour to each. Would that be agreeable or does the Liberal caucus have concerns with that?
MR. MACASKILL: If I remember correctly, in previous meetings of the Economic Development Committee and also in the Resources Committee, we used to send a letter to the three caucuses requesting submissions. Has that been done?
MRS. DARLENE HENRY (Legislative Committees Clerk): Yes, it has. It was sent out with the notice.
MR. MACASKILL: Okay. So I have no problem with the agenda that is on the table for the next meeting, which is to proceed with ACOA or the Truckers Association. I have no problem with that. Probably by the time the next meeting rolls around, we will have names to put to the meeting at that time.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Annapolis.
MR. FRANK CHIPMAN: Mr. Chairman, I had a request last evening from the Grape Growers Association of Nova Scotia to come before the Economic Development Committee. They are not prepared yet, but they will be and probably have everything in place in a month or so.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, perhaps, at our next meeting, where the NDP caucus submitted ACOA, do you feel one hour would suffice for ACOA or do you think we should dedicate the whole committee meeting to ACOA?
MR. CORBETT: Mr. Chairman, the submission, actually I envision it as being people from both departments, the provincial Department of Economic Development and ACOA because there have been lots of discussions about how you arrive at getting assistance from both of those departments. So that all depends on whether they come in with a slide show and backgrounders, if there are two departments here, the federal and provincial departments, each one may take up 20 minutes on their own and then you have basically 80 minutes left for questions. Unless I knew what their presentations were going to consist of, I would be hesitant.
Just on a kind of related matter, too, in the booklet we got, in the previous administration, there was a letter from the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association wanting to come before us and to talk probably more directly about the Competition Bureau. I will say this by way of suggestion because I don't know exactly if it is worth putting a motion to it, but we should contact that group and see if they are still interested in coming before us because I think they expressed some ideas or concerns about competition, especially related to the food service industry; I think more in the wholesaling side. So that may be another one too that we could probably put on our books but, in short, in talking about ACOA and Economic Development, I am hesitant to say how long that should take because it would depend on the type of presentation. If they are going to take us through a presentation of this is how you apply for a loan or whatever, it may take a little longer than the hour or whatever.
MR. DOWNE: Just a couple of points; I agree with Frankie about the first meeting that we have. I was away I guess last week, I have been away for about 10 days, down home. The day I was supposed to be here there was a snowstorm so we cancelled the meetings. My sense, number one, is that if we have a presentation by Economic Development and another one by ACOA, I think that would take up most of the time, or a large percentage of the time.
What I would suggest is that we do have a list of items that are current that are priorities and we also have the backlog of issues that were of concern that we never had the time to deal with. So my suggestion is that you will have a list undoubtedly by then by the Liberal caucus as per some of the priorities because I, like my friend from the agricultural component, the grape growers, and they are probably talking about the cottage winery and/or other ways of dispensing their product to the retail market, it is agriculture but it is economic development and it is a few other departments rolled into one.
I just want to have a good understanding, that we are only talking about the departments that are here, that is on Rule 60 (2)(ba), because tourism is now a separate entity and Tourism and Culture is a separate entity. So I assume that we are really increasing the mandate and so there really should be a motion to amend this one here, if that is in order, to add tourism and development as a separate entity as it is now a separate department and it was part and parcel of what this committee basically has dealt with in the past and a $1.27 billion industry is pretty significant to the economy.
So, number one, I agree with Frankie to deal with that issue, Economic Development and ACOA at our next meeting and that we would give ourselves an hour, some time to debate what are the other priorities because the priorities might be different for the three caucuses and, hopefully, we can find a solution where the priority issues are because the list will be more extensive than it currently is and so if you could give us time to talk about that. Maybe we might want to have a list of all the areas that we have currently, like you mentioned one, Brooke, just on your own there. I don't know if that is a caucus' or a chairman's concern, is that one or is that a caucus position.
So I guess we all could probably come up with a list of 10 different things ourselves. So I guess it goes back to caucus' position as to what we should be dealing with or if it is going to be wide open to whatever we want, it will come up to a pretty good list. I would hope that we could maybe have a copy of everybody's list a week or so beforehand so that maybe we could, you know, kind of help prioritize where we think the common areas are and where we think some of the priorities items to be discussed should be at the table, not taking away from all the priorities that have been talked about here.
Now, there is a backlog already, and we might want to go through that backlog and determine what is pertinent now and what is not pertinent. I think if we had the whole list, we could determine out of that what we think, number one, two and whatever, is and then each caucus could go back and take a look at where the priority should be and then we can maybe spend an hour kind of going through that and hopefully coming up with a common approach to how we want to set the agenda to deal with a number of those; those two particular housekeeping kind of approaches to it, suggestions, Mr. Chairman. I don't know if it would be in order to expand the mandate section to separate Tourism out, to have Tourism and Culture and whether or not that should still be there or if there is any need to expand it any further. Quite frankly, the Economic Development Minister is also the Minister responsible for the Petroleum Directorate and the list goes on and on.
I move that, just to make this book accurate, Tourism and Culture should be separate.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you want to put that forward in the form of a motion?
MR. DOWNE: Yes. I would move that, just to clarify the book here, because it is not accurate as such.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you adding or deleting?
MR. DOWNE: I would like to add Tourism and Culture to that because it was part and parcel of the previous portfolio.
MR. CORBETT: I second it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
I just want to reconfirm that when the notices went out regarding this particular meeting all caucuses were notified that, in fact, it was an organizational meeting. Unfortunately, the PC caucus and the Liberal caucus did not come up with their list. So for the purposes of the next meeting, if it is agreed to by committee members, we could perhaps
try to facilitate the NDP's request, because they did come with a witness - ACOA and Economic Development - and dedicate that meeting to those witnesses and at that time perhaps after we are done dealing with the witnesses, then we could submit our lists and then we could for the next meeting see if there is a common area there that we could all agree to.
MR. CORBETT: To agree with Mr. Downe, too, I think we should all try to get our lists in early enough so we can circulate them to the other caucuses. So like I say, we obviously are not going to agree wholeheartedly with everyone's list but we can come up with some semblance of a priority list, if we had the arguments ready when we come rather than take it up on the fly.
MR. ESTABROOKS: On the other committees that I have been involved in when we have presentations, I would assume that you would give them some kind of guidelines so that we say could you have your presentations perhaps be no longer than, say, 15 minutes, because after all we are talking about questions and answers and the exchange back and forth. That makes it a more productive committee as opposed to as my colleague, the member for Cape Breton Centre has pointed out, if we have ACOA and they come in with a 55 minute presentation I don't know how you would do that, Darlene, perhaps you could clarify that for us.
MRS. HENRY: When I contact the witnesses I would tell them that they have a specific time limit and that the remainder of the time is split up into a question and answer period, round table discussion. They are given 15 minutes.
MR. ESTABROOKS: Fifteen, okay, that's great. Thanks.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Estabrooks, this outlines the witnesses guidelines to briefs relative to regular meetings, in the booklet that we received from Darlene.
MR. MACASKILL: Mr. Chairman, a couple of things. First the backlog. As we go through it, we see some interesting names here that would like to appear before the committee. I am just wondering, have we dealt with that?
MR. CHAIRMAN: We haven't dealt with that Mr. MacAskill. My particular feeling is that the previous witness lists are, in fact, just that and they could if they want to request once again to appear before the committee, because the political landscape has changed considerably since they last requested to appear; not saying that they wouldn't want to but you can, on behalf of your caucus at the next meet if you want, bring forward some of those names as can the NDP and as can the PCs. That is my own particular feeling unless you want to go through them one by one and we can deal with that now.
MR. MACASKILL: No. I am looking at Father Bob Neville to speak on the individual level rather than on behalf of the Beaton Institute. Maybe Father Neville would be interesting. I am not sure if he has postponed or cancelled.
MS. HENRY: That was cancelled . . .
MR. MACASKILL: That one was cancelled. So he may wish to appear before the committee at some point. Mr. Chairman, my second point, if we have a group coming from Yarmouth or from Sydney, I don't believe an hour is enough time. The last couple of meetings I was at, in particular the Resources Committee meeting, we didn't have time even in the two hours for the presentation, I think members still had questions that they could have asked. We seemed to run the clock out. If they travel long distances to come here and to make presentations, I think we should reap the benefits of their presentation and be able to ask a substantial number of questions to satisfy our own minds. I am not sure that an hour is enough time.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Right. I think we pretty well agreed to try to line up the Department of Economic Development and ACOA to come before the committee and in fact give them the two hours. As Mr. Corbett pointed out, they may want to show a video or something along those lines, make a presentation.
MR. MACASKILL: But did we not mention something about limiting their time, their presentations, to 15 minutes?
MR. CHAIRMAN: According to the document that we received, this manual so to speak, for committee members, each meeting is scheduled for two hours. Witnesses are invited to speak 20 minutes, thereby allowing the remainder of time to be given over to questions by the members. For all members, there is a guide under the section - just before you get to the mandate, I think it is on Page 3 of your mandate.
What is the feeling of committee members regarding meetings? Do you feel once a month is sufficient, twice a month? I know we have potential witnesses, some of us have them in the memory bank and some of us will have to discuss it with our caucuses. Has this committee traditionally met twice a month or once?
MS. HENRY: It has met bi-weekly.
MR. CORBETT: In our last meetings, because it was industry specific, it was about Devco, and by and large, we were meeting every second week. Not being a veteran of the House as someone of your stature or Mr. Downe's stature, I am not sure if that is the regular goal of this committee or not.
MR. DOWNE: Mr. Chairman, I think Kennie has been here probably the longest of us all. He was on this committee, maybe . . .
MR. MACASKILL: No, I haven't served on this committee.
MR. DOWNE: My thinking is that there is a fair number of major economic issues right there. I think of the whole issue of freedom to fly and Air Canada and Canadian and the impact it will have on our area. I have a real problem with what is going on there, and the impact it will have in the Sydney or Yarmouth airports, the impact on the hub airport of Halifax, and things of that nature. There is a multitude of items. I think of the port and I think of the steel plant, if it gets sold at the end of this month, what impact that will have. There is a crisis brewing in a number of areas in the province. I guess the issue here is that there is going to be a number of very serious issues that need to be dealt with. I think that if we can get together shortly after the new year - I don't know how many people want to meet over Christmas holidays, I necessarily don't - if we can get into a schedule, we will see the list that comes in, and if there is enough there, bi-weekly would probably be reasonable.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I just happened to notice here, Mr. Downe, that routinely the committee has met every other Tuesday. Perhaps we could try that. Would someone want to suggest a date for our next meeting, and we will try to bring in ACOA and Economic Development for that meeting. We will come with our list of potential witnesses for subsequent meetings.
MR. DOWNE: I would recommend that we meet on January 11th and January 25th, respectively and that way we can go from there, how we want to deal with it. At least it gives everybody a chance to book it in.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is that agreeable to committee members?
It is agreed.
Is there any other business for today's meeting?
MR. CORBETT: Mr. Chairman, I move we adjourn.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We stand adjourned.
[The committee adjourned at 2:26 p.m.]
