HANSARD

NOVA SCOTIA HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

SELECT COMMITTEE ON ESTABLISHING AN ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES COMMISSION

Friday, November 18, 2011

COMMITTEE ROOM 1

Organizational Meeting

Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services

SELECT COMMITTEE ON ESTABLISHING AN ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES COMMISSION

Hon. Ross Landry (Chairman)
Mr. Gary Ramey
Ms. Michele Raymond
Mr. Leonard Preyra
Mr. Jim Boudreau
Hon. Michel Samson
Mr. Andrew Younger
Hon. Chris d'Entremont
Mr. Keith Bain

[Mr. Gary Ramey was replaced by Mr. Howard Epstein.]
[Ms. Michele Raymond was replaced by Mr. Jim Morton.]

In Attendance:

Ms. Kim Langille
Legislative Committee Clerk

Mr. Gordon Hebb
Legislative Counsel

Mr. James MacInnes
Legislative Television and Recording Services

Mr. Robert Kinsman
Hansard Reporting Services

Ms. Carla Burns
Communications Nova Scotia

SELECT COMMITTEE ON ESTABLISHING AN ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES COMMISSION

FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 2011

CHAIRMAN
Hon. Ross Landry

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, we'll now call this meeting to order. We have just a few things on our agenda this morning and we'll be out of here by 9:00 a.m. at the very latest. The first part is information on items such as listing of meeting date and venues and that's attached here along with the list of hotels. We're going to ask that members provide their cell numbers and the best e-mail address to get hold of you at. Maybe we'll pass the sheet around to do that.

MS. KIM LANGILLE: Or they can have staff email me, or whatever. I do have some of it, but on the road it may be helpful in case we have to get hold of somebody on short notice.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have mine then.

MS. LANGILLE: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any questions with regard to that? We will see that Kim gets the complete list of that information. Welcome, Mr. Younger.

MR. ANDREW YOUNGER: Sorry I'm late.

MR. CHAIRMAN: That's fine. We just talked about the information items and we're making sure the coordinator for the committee has all your cell phone information and your best e-mail to get hold of you to make sure information is getting out.

I'd also encourage, just between us, that we have information just to confirm with the other parties within our group that they have it too in case there's a mix up. If you know something, or you are meeting, just reconfirm with them that you are meeting, like  yesterday, Mr. Samson came to me and reminded me about this morning's meeting, that it starts at 8:00 a.m. That was excellent. It kept me on my toes.

MR. LEONARD PREYRA: And you were on time. (Laughter)

HON. MICHEL SAMSON: I'm blaming a two-year-old. (Laughter)

MR. CHAIRMAN: When you have a two-year-old or a four-year-old, anything is up for last minute change, that's for sure.

The next item for discussion is the approval of the Select Committee advertisement package. There are the print ads, the press release, the radio script, the signage and the online. I'll turn that over to Kim.

MS. LANGILLE: As you can see in the package, we have the print ad and the only comment I'll make about the print ad is, the ad I've put in your package shows all the venues. When it goes out to the various local papers, I call them, it would only advertise what's happening in that area. So, typically when we are down in Sydney there would be maybe Port Hawkesbury and Sydney - and Carla can explain that further - and there are separate ads for each separate area that we're going to in addition to this, in those various papers. I think all the information there is standard. I don't know if anyone has any comments on that.

The press release is kind of important. I think Minster Landry has signed off on his comments on there. I don't know if anybody else has anything they want to add. I circled and put question marks in a couple of places. I just noticed that the postal code was wrong, so that's a minor deal. I circled the presentations for special needs and to present in French - you must provide advance notice by calling the toll free number - I circled that because, depending on what happens here today, that may or may not have to be changed in some manner, so I just wanted to highlight that.

The only other thing that I noticed was where there's a question mark, it says the Select Committee on Establishing Electoral Boundaries will report their findings to the House by December 31st. I didn't know if that actually had to be in there because according to Gordon, it's worded slightly different this time, the resolution, so I don't know if that has to be there or not.

MR. YOUNGER: I would think that just the commission will report their findings by December 31st. 

MS. LANGILLE: Ok. 

MR. GORDON HEBB: The report can be to the House. All I'm pointing out on the difference with before is that the committee, this time, makes the determination; they should tell the House what that determination is. Last time, they made a recommendation to the House and then the House had to accept the report and make it official. That's the subtle difference, but the report should go to the House so it is put somewhere on the record.

MS. LANGILLE: We would just take out "to the House" and just say, "report their findings by December 31st." Is that fine?

MR. CHAIRMAN: So who do you report it to if you don't define the House?

MR. HEBB: It can still be reported to the House, it can be by way of filing with the Clerk - "report it to the House" doesn't necessarily mean it's tabled in the House.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Rather than getting too semantical on the issue . . .

MR. HEBB: It's not a legal document, this is just an advertisement.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any comments?

MR. PREYRA: Did we look at "will" as a possible problem? 

MR. YOUNGER: We would be required by the resolution to do it no later than that date.

MR. CHAIRMAN: So what's the debate here, whether it says "to the House" or "not to the House"? 

All right, six of one and half a dozen of the other. Make a decision and put it in. (Interruptions)  

MR. YOUNGER: Leave it the way it is, then.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. All in agreement? Ok.

MS. LANGILLE: Next up, the radio scripts which are, again - I don't think anyone has any issue. There are examples there of what is going to be run in each locale.

MR. YOUNGER: Is there a French radio script?

MS. LANGILLE: There is a French radio script, I'm assuming. I don't have it.

MS. CARLA BURNS: Yes, there will be. We don't have it here, they translate it for us.

MS. LANGILLE: And then we just have our sign that we put outside of the venues, which is really not all that exciting. We're going to be doing on-line ads this time and maybe Carla might speak to how that's going to work.

MS. BURNS: The on-line ads just include, very high level, what it is and will link to the other information. They'll start running when people go on the Herald and the Metro site, they can click on the ad and read it from there. So it will run all of next week and we'll be able to measure it. You'll be able to know, after the ads are completed, how many people clicked on them and read them, so it's a very effective tool for getting to a large audience - and that's in addition to the print ads that will run in the daily papers.

MR. SAMSON: Can I suggest that ad, if we can have access to that for our own Facebook sites and that, so t we can post it on our own sites, just go get the message.

MS. BURNS: Most certainly. Are you talking about the on-line ad or the print ads?

MR. SAMSON: I guess a bit of both.

MS. BURNS: Okay, I'll check on that. Thank you.

MR.CHAIRMAN: Mr. Morton.

MR. JIM MORTON: Mr. Chairman, will the print ads only run in daily papers?

MS. LANGILLE: They're running in dailies and weeklies.

MR. MORTON: Okay, thank you.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any other - Mr. Bain.

MR. KEITH BAIN: Mr. Chairman, just one question. I'm assuming the radio ads are based on the ratings. I notice there is only one for Sydney and that's The Giant. I don't know if The Eagle would be included in that - and we also have the three Maritime broadcasting stations in Sydney, so I'm just wondering why The Giant was chosen.

MR. CHAIRMAN: We can choose one, we could choose two, I guess.

MS. BURNS: It's my understanding from our advertising section that they have the highest ratings. With some of the community newspaper ads, we missed the deadlines on some of them because of the timing sensitivity. We were able to get them into some of the community newspapers, but the ones that we couldn't, the radio ads and the daily ads will cover off in those areas.

MR. BAIN: That's fine, I thought that was the reason, but I just wanted to make sure.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right. Mr. Morton?

MR. MORTON: Could I ask another question about advertising? Now that I've looked at the list, I'm just recognizing for weekly papers, which serve much of rural Nova Scotia, the only ones that have been selected seem to be in those areas where the hearings are being held, but yet I would think there may be people from across the province who might be interested in presenting to this commission. I don't know if there's a reason why other weeklies wouldn't have been looked at.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well I guess when you look at around the province, that's where the Herald comes in or the Cape Breton Post, to get the best bang. Mr. d'Entremont?

HON. CHRISTOPHER D'ENTREMONT: Well just on that same issue, let's say the Yarmouth Vanguard for example, since Yarmouth is the only southwestern one, we would hope that people from Shelburne and people from Digby would be travelling to Yarmouth in order to participate. The Yarmouth Vanguard does not cover those two other counties for these kinds of things, so I'm just wondering why you wouldn't use the Digby Courier and the Shelburne Coast Guard as well for something like that. I'm just wondering, because you're trying to draw from a bigger area - and I agree with Jim.

MS. BURNS: These ads are based on what was done the last time. In addition, as I said earlier, we have missed some of the community paper deadlines and it was felt that The ChronicleHerald would cover off in those other areas around the province.

MR. CHAIRMAN: What about the on-line? Does that add to the exposure as well?

MS. BURNS: Yes, most certainly. It's on-line through the ChronicleHerald and through the Metro.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And the individual MLAs Web sites and stuff, okay. Are we okay with this?

MS. BURNS: I can certainly go back and check into whether or not we can reach some of those other community newspapers and give you a price for those, but I don't know about booking - we were really on a tight deadline for booking the space, and we have the space booked for these papers right now.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Well, Yarmouth's next week, so you're actually there . . . 
         
MS. BURNS: Yes, you almost need two weeks in advance for booking, so we were really on a tight schedule.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: I got a guy to call, you're alright.

MS. LANGILLE: But we can go ahead with what we have now and Carla will check.

MS. BURNS: I'll check today.

MS. LANGILLE: Okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, excellent. The next issue is on the special needs, like sign language and French interpretative services.

MS. LANGILLE: The only comment that I wanted to make is with regard to the sign language interpretation. We have called some folks, and for the dates that we need and the short notice, there's no one available for the person that we called, and it's the Society of Deaf & Hard of Hearing Nova Scotians. They're connected with all kinds of people, and I've tried to contact her again to see if maybe there is some other way to get in touch with other people, but her initial comments were that they couldn't have people available for the dates that we had. That's my understanding. She was going to do further checking, but I haven't been able to get back in contact with her since. So that becomes an issue. I don't know how you want to address that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any comments?

MR. SAMSON: I would get something in writing from them saying that they've been requested and that it was impossible.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Good idea. We want to show that we tried.

MR. SAMSON: And even if there was - I don't know if there's a way of contacting the local areas. I would be surprised if there wouldn't be a volunteer or something even in the area. I don't think we're asking for a top professional, but someone who at least can make sure that the communication is there, if there are even ways of checking in the various locations we're going to. Again, the question will be, people are being asked to let us know beforehand.

MS. LANGILLE: Yes.

MR. SAMSON: I would hate to see someone show up and us not have anything at all for them.

MS. LANGILLE: I think her concern was that for the kind of presentations that people may be making, you need a certain qualified individual to be able to sign in that manner. That was how it was explained to me, anyhow, so that was a bit of the issue as well.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Younger.

MR. YOUNGER: I just wonder if somebody does call and register to appear and requires an interpreter, how are we going to handle that? In that case we've been notified.

MS. LANGILLE: Yes, that's my point. It's hard to say in the ad that you're providing something if you don't know that you can provide it. That's my concern.

MR. YOUNGER: I mean, it's obviously a different issue if somebody shows up and didn't let us know.

MS. LANGILLE: Exactly.

MR. YOUNGER: I mean, then if they show up and they do . . .

MR. CHAIRMAN: So the real issue is that if we can't establish someone, then we can't advertise it, but if somebody has a special interest, let us know, and we can discuss it with them in that regard.

MS. LANGILLE: And maybe it's just a fine-tuning to the ad to say - I'm not quite sure what it says now, but if it's something to the effect of "please contact us to discuss any special needs" and then at that point we could say, "well, we don't have anyone in that area but we have someone in this area," or whatever the case may be. I don't know if that's a good way to address it or not.

MR. YOUNGER: It may be we do address it in that if we can't find somebody. If somebody calls and requires that, they may have somebody themselves that we might be able to . . . 

MR. CHAIRMAN: That goes back to Kim's point to discuss. We're open to that. Okay on that issue? Now, the next point?

MS. LANGILLE: Just the French interpretation services, that kind of gets into the budgeting, so I don't know if you want to jump into that or if you want to deal with . . .

MR. CHAIRMAN: It's approximately a $2,000 cost to do Port Hawkesbury and to do Yarmouth.

MS. LANGILLE: Would there be any other locations?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Halifax, so we're looking at roughly three.

MS. LANGILLE: Three locations.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. d'Entremont.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: I just had the opportunity last night when we launched the new Web site over at the House of Assembly to speak to the president of the Acadian Federation. They were for sure going to be presenting at one, and he was pushing the local associations to make some presentations in a couple of the areas, so chances are it would be Yarmouth and Port Hawkesbury. I would probably see three presentations from them. 

MR. CHAIRMAN: And how does that affect our budget overall, it's roughly about $3,000 then - $3,500?

MS. LANGILLE: Yes, roughly. I mean it reduces our budget because the numbers that we have there are for providing it in all of them but if . . . 

MR. YOUNGER: Why wouldn't we do it in all of them?

MR. SAMSON: I think you have to wait to see who requests it and then you have to adjust according. 

MR. D'ENTREMONT: We're budgeting for three. 

MS. LANGILLE: I think that the issue is, though, that these people need to know and if we can say, well yes, we're going to provide in these locations, then they can be prepared to show there and they know that, yes, we have to be there. Because we have pay them irrespective of whether they show up or not. 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. d'Entremont.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: I was also wondering, and I'm just reading through the Hansard costs as well, where there is recoverables here through the Canada/Nova Scotia agreement on official languages, that you should be able to recoup some of these costs as well, not just the Hansard costs, but probably some of the translation costs through the office. You might want to hook-up with Vaughne just to ask. Like I said, it wouldn't just be Hansard, it would be other costs associated with consulting with the Acadian communities. 

MR. CHAIRMAN: So what's the feeling here of the group - to establish that we have them in the locations that were mentioned: Port Hawkesbury, Yarmouth and Halifax, and if there's a need to expand that, but to stay within that budget structure, or what's the feeling? 

MR. SAMSON: What do you do if someone wants to make a presentation in Sydney or Truro, because you've got Acadian communities in both of those areas, you've got Acadian schools in both of those communities? How do you tell them that they can't make a presentation there that they have to go somewhere else to make a presentation? 

MR. CHAIRMAN: How much is in the budget for . . . 

MS. LANGILLE: I have basically $8,800 for translation French, for the interpretation. 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright, what if we ask for notice and no one gives notice that they're going to come and speak French.

MS. LANGILLE: I think that's the issue that either you have to have somebody or you don't have to have someone. I think the cost . . .

MR. CHAIRMAN: If I understand, the service was provided the last time but no one spoke in French. I suspect it will be different this time.

MS. LANGILLE: That may be the case. Certainly in 2001 I don't think anyone spoke in French.

MR. SAMSON: They did at the hearings but there were only some of us could actually understand what they were saying. 

MR. D'ENTREMONT: There was you and there was Neil, and there was somebody else in the group.

MR. SAMSON: Paul MacEwan.

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Right.

MS. LANGILLE: Yeah, okay.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Alright so we'll go ahead with it. 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Is that the consensus or what's the feeling here?

MR. SAMSON: The headaches caused are much great than the costs. 

MR. CHAIRMAN: So do we have consensus that we'll go ahead and offer the service in all areas?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, agreed. The report writer and communications person, the person named is?

MS. LANGILLE: Maybe Carla might want to speak to that. There was some concern, we thought they had somebody within their organization and then they had to go outside. 

MS. BURNS: We did look internally to see if we had a communications resource that would travel with the committee and write the report but unfortunately, do to demands and commitments and where the House is sitting, we didn't have an internal resource. So we went to our standing offer list, which is made up of communications professionals to provide a variety of services to government. 

Given the short time frame we approached probably four or five people who were not available but we were able to get somebody, Ms. Moira Macleod, for a budget of $5,000. That would be to travel with the Select Committee, to follow up with any meetings, to write the reports and her expenses would be on top of that. So that's where we are seeking approval to secure Moira, and she's on our standing offer list. 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Any comments? Mr. Preyra.

MR. PREYRA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I did serve with Moira Macleod on the Democracy 250 Committee and a couple other committees and she has worked in all party contexts and done a very good job. She would be a good suggestion for that. 

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Do we have a consensus? Done. Thank you very much. The next issue is, now that we have the language issue and special needs and other and the communications completed, is the budget itself and the amount there. Any issues or questions concerning the budget?

MS. LANGILLE: As you can see, I didn't attach everything. I just attached the items that were the large expenses. A lot of it is just hand scribbles from speaking to people at this point. You'll also notice that for the sign language interpreters, there's no amount there, because we were told we couldn't get someone. I haven't been able to speak with her to see if we were able to get somebody or what that amount would be. That would be in addition.

MR. CHAIRMAN: So we'll be under the $20,000 no matter which way we turn on this issue. We should be well under. The budget says $17,000. Am I correct on that?

MS. LANGILLE: No. That's just advertising. That's just print and media, exactly.

MR. CHAIRMAN: So that's just the communications.

MS. LANGILLE: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: What's the overall budget?

MR. YOUNGER: Is there a contingency? I'm only asking if there's a contingency because if we do end up - first of all, we've already increased the French interpretation services slightly - not significantly, it sounds like.

MS. LANGILLE: No.

MR. YOUNGER: But if we solve the issue of sign language interpretation or if somebody says, "I can bring my person, but they need $100," I assume we wouldn't refuse that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm just looking over this. The travel mileage is not your car rental, but when you look at the mileage being used by the members here to cover these distances, it's not budgeted.

MS. LANGILLE: I think that's because it falls under the MLA expense system. That's my understanding.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, so it'll go under the MLA rules?

MR. YOUNGER: I don't know what the rules are, but being on the other commission, we may have to pass a motion here and we may require the approval of the House of Assembly.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I think we do, because as MLAs, to travel outside of our - I know I do, I bug the heck out of them - to leave your riding you need to get permission. Maybe we'll just get permission from the Speaker's Office confirming that so that there's no ambiguity on that point. It's just a technical thing, and we just want to make sure everything - because on the reporting and on the cost at the end of the day . . . 

MR. PREYRA: There's also absence from the House.

MS. LANGILLE: Each one of you would look after that yourself.

MR. BAIN: The only one who would have to request an absence from the House at this point would be the minister, anyway, as long as we make our own caucuses aware.

MR. CHAIRMAN: As I understand the rules - and I do stand to be corrected - each member who is not going to be in the House needs to let the Speaker's Office know, and that can be by e-mail or by any communication, that they will not be in the House. Of course, remember the per diem per day can't be claimed under the House. It'll have to be claimed under the committee. It's little things like that - technical, but just to make sure the bookkeeping is correct.

Maybe the Speaker's Office could be given a copy of who is on the board and the dates of the hearings.

MS. LANGILLE: Just on that, for all committee meetings - select committees, standing committees - an attendance sheet is sent to the Speaker's Office, so they know who was there and who substituted and all that sort of thing.

MR. CHAIRMAN: As long as they're in the loop. Are there any other questions that we need to know today?

MR. PREYRA: Do we need to go around today and record that Jim is filling in for Michele?

MR. SAMSON: In case you're unavailable for one of the meetings, do you want to appoint one of your colleagues as a vice-chair? So it's clear who's on first if for some reason you're not there?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Who would like to take that role? Mr. Preyra? Thank you.

I want to thank Mr. Morton for coming and thank Mr. Epstein today for filling in for Mr. Ramey.

MS. BURNS: I just wanted to add for your budget, if we do increase advertising to the other community newspapers, that will increase your advertising costs. Just so you're aware of that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MS. LANGILLE: So what is the thinking? What contingency would you like to see?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, we could ask for $5,000 and then my goal would be to come under the $63,000 to start with - and I know the other Parties are certainly as conscious as we are about the dollars. Mr. Preyra?

MR. PREYRA: Just to that point, I think we have agreed in principle with Mr. d'Entremont and Mr. Samson about local advertising. We just have to find the place and the timing and all that. So those are not up in the air - I think we've agreed to that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And if it doesn't work out, that's fine. I mean the point is, is there a possibility to do that to expand? And we'll leave it at that. 

Is there anything else that we need to bring up for today?

MS. LANGILLE: Well, the budget would be $68,000 in rough numbers, yes, so that's what I'll - I guess we have to do a letter off to the Management Commission saying we would like this. So is everybody happy with that?

MR. CHAIRMAN: So the next time we're meeting is Tuesday in Truro?

MS. LANGILLE: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: And I would suggest or recommend to the committee members that we be there at least half an hour beforehand. How do you feel about that, like I mean it would give us at least 30 minutes before. 

Anything else to discuss? Ms. Langille.

MS. LANGILLE: Just with regard to the print ad and the wording, I know I'm stuck on this, but having to do with how it's going to be worded to deal with special needs and the French issue - is the way it's worded currently acceptable or do we need to make a change? Right now it says: Please contact the committee in advance to discuss any special needs or if you would like to offer a French presentation. Obviously we're providing the interpretation services, so we don't need to say that, or do we need . . .

MR. YOUNGER: French and translation shall be provided.

MS. LANGILLE: Okay, and how are we dealing with this - just "to contact in advance to discuss."

So we can tweet that wording as long as it reflects - okay.

MR. PREYRA: Sorry, Kim, when people call the 1-888, we will also prompt them.

MS. LANGILLE: Yes, would you like to make any comment? Yes, I think that's what happened before. People left comments and suggestions on the 1-888 line. It was all typed up and it was given to the members.

MR. CHAIRMAN: How many hours is it from Halifax to Yarmouth?

MR. D'ENTREMONT: Give yourself three and a half anyway. (Interruptions) I'm just saying give yourselves three and a half.

MR. CHAIRMAN: So if you allow four hours, you have no rush. We're meeting at 3:00 p.m. there, so I can leave at 10:00 a.m. and I have lots of time. 

There is nothing further to discuss. I thank you very much for coming at this time of the morning.

The meeting is adjourned.

[The committee adjourned at 8:33 a.m.]