HALIFAX, TUESDAY, APRIL 26, 2016
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON SUPPLY
3:00 P.M.
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Keith Irving
MR. CHAIRMAN: The Subcommittee of the Whole House on Supply will come to order, please. We are here today to review the estimates for the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. We have before the committee here the Minister of Communities, Culture and Heritage, along with several of his staff members.
Resolution E3 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $81,689,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage, pursuant to the Estimate, and the business plan of the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia be approved.
Today we will start with opening comments, followed by one hour sessions of questioning of the minister. I'd like to begin by asking the minister to introduce himself and his staff and proceed with any opening comments he'd like to begin with.
The honourable Minister of Communities, Culture and Heritage.
HON. TONY INCE: Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I'm pleased to be here today to highlight the work of the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage and to speak about the year ahead.
Before I proceed I'd like to make a few introductions of the senior team who are joining me today. To my left I have Deputy Minister Kellyann Dean, and on my right I have Rebecca Doucett, who is the Manager of Financial Services. Behind me and to my side I have David Ross, Executive Director of Corporate Strategy and Operations, who is behind me. Over to my left is Ross McLaren, Director of Communications.
Wherever I go in this province I meet people who are proud to call themselves Nova Scotians. They are proud of their cultural identity and their communities' history. Many of them know how and when their families came to this province. Some have ancestors who came to this place 13,000 years ago. Some ancestors came with the French or the English in the 1600s, the Loyalists in the 1700s, the Gaels, Irish, Germans, Lebanese, Dutch, Serbs or Croatians or Syrians in more recent waves of immigrants. Others have different stories.
The Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage contributes to the well-being and prosperity of Nova Scotia's diverse communities through the promotion, development, preservation and celebration of culture, heritage, identity and languages. An exciting new addition to our work is working with communities to improve the quality of life of Nova Scotians through sport, recreation and physical activity. This year's budget includes additional investments to CCH to support our role in strengthening communities, support the creative economy, and implement plans to celebrate Canada's 150th Anniversary. CCH's budget for fiscal year 2016-17 have increased almost $20 million, from $61.8 million to $81.7 million. The majority of this increase represents the budget for sport, recreation, and physical activity programing as well as operations, which was transferred to CCH as of April 1, 2016.
Government continues to recognize the potential of the creative industries to reinvigorate communities and generate economic growth. To support the development of the creative sector, $2.5 million has been added to CCH for creative economy initiatives. Given the importance of the events in building strong communities and generating economic benefits, the province is investing $2 million for Canada 150 events and $500,000 to support major sport and cultural events. As well, tourism festivals and events programing is also moved to CCH. Government is also increasing investments for communities and cultural organizations that need assistance to repair or upgrade facilities.
The Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage employs the equivalent of 244 full-time staff. That's an increase of about 24 over the previous year, and that reflects the number of employees transferred from Health and Wellness.
I have just outlined the major changes to our budget, and now I would like to explain these changes in greater detail and speak about the importance of the province's continued investment in culture, heritage, and communities. An important focus for the department is bringing our past to life. Through institutions like the Public Archives of Nova Scotia, the Nova Scotia museum system, and the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia, we preserve, protect, promote, and present Nova Scotia's arts, culture, heritage, and languages. We believe there are opportunities to leverage the value of these important cultural assets to further support tourism.
In partnership with the Nova Scotia Museum Board of Governors, we will explore ways to revitalize Nova Scotia's museum system. This work will enhance the visitor experience and allow us to build partnerships to further leverage government's investments.
My department also protects the parts of our heritage that exist outside these institutions, such as our built heritage, the buildings, cityscapes, and landscapes that reflect our province's history. These buildings may be excellent examples of the architecture of a particular time and place, or they may have played an important role in Nova Scotia's history because of the people who built them or lived in them.
In the last session of the House, we introduced amendments to the Heritage Property Act to streamline the administration and better support municipalities. These amendments improved the Heritage Property Act and will continue to help protect important pieces of our heritage. As well, by incorporating nationally accepted conservation standards and guidelines into the Act, we are able to ensure clarity and a consistent approach to preserving significant properties.
This Spring, we will consult with municipalities, organizations and the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia on regulations to ensure they provide appropriate and useful support to protecting our built heritage and cultural landscapes. I thank the Advisory Council on Heritage Property, which has provided sound advice on this legislation. I know they will once again be helpful when we finalize the regulations.
I'd like to speak about a gentleman who was quite important. His name was Ken Langille. He was the chairman of the Advisory Council on Heritage Property from 2014 until his death just last month. Ken's strong interest in built heritage was clear in his work as a member of the Advisory Council on Heritage Property beginning in September 2010. His passing is a great loss to Nova Scotia's heritage community and our advisory council.
Another important network supported through CCH is the Nova Scotia public library system. I think many people in Nova Scotia would say that our public libraries invite learning and help them to stay in touch with the broader communities around the world. Public libraries are vital parts of the communities they serve and highly valued by Nova Scotians of all ages. Government recognizes the important role they play and has continued to maintain funding at $14.4 million. This just represents a portion of the total funding libraries receive from other partners including municipalities and library boards.
However, we recognize that libraries continue to find it challenging to meet the needs of their communities under the current per capita based funding model, which was outdated and which does not encourage innovation. Over a year ago, at the request of the library boards, the province created a committee to consider a new funding model. The committee was made up of library board representatives, chief librarians, municipal councillors and departmental staff. The committee presented its work and I asked them to share that work with all library boards for feedback and input. All regions have now responded and we are reviewing that input to determine next steps.
Like libraries, CCH sites such as museums and archives are excellent resources for learning. Everyone who visits these sites has learned something new or was motivated to seek out more information on topics like the history of the Black Loyalists or life in an Acadian village. Schools continue to be interested in ways to tie museum content to curriculum outcomes. We continue to work with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development to make resources available to teachers who use our museum sites to further inspire students.
Nova Scotia's diverse communities - African Nova Scotians, Acadians, Gaelic speakers, Aboriginal people and new Nova Scotians - make a tapestry of traditions that grows more vibrant with each passing year. To ensure the new Nova Scotians feel welcome, we will work with the Office of Immigration to support the development of welcoming communities.
We will also co-lead the implementation of the provincial memorandum of understanding on Treaty Day education, signed last Fall during Treaty Day. Our partnership with the Mi'kmaq will help us advance our relationship with them and will help Nova Scotians to think in new ways about that relationship.
The provincial government and Mi'kmaq officials are working together to develop treaty education programs and services for the education system, for the Public Service and the broader public. It will be a long-term process, but we are beginning by working together to create the strong foundation.
In considering and planning for cultural expression in Nova Scotia, we have the benefit of working with our own cultural offices. The work of Acadian Affairs, African Nova Scotian Affairs and Gaelic Affairs ensures that all Nova Scotians benefit from the innovation and creativity that is unleashed when we celebrate and value our diverse culture and heritage.
For years I spoke about the Office of African Nova Scotian Affairs as being one of a kind in Canada. I learned last year that there is still only one office for African Nova Scotian affairs in Canada; still one of a kind in this country. Nova Scotia leads the way in providing people of African descent with a voice in government. People of African descent have been recorded as living in this province since Mathieu de Costa arrived with the first French settlers in the 1600s. A major wave of Black Loyalists arrived 150 years later, and that was one of the most important waves of people of African descent migrating to Canada.
Ensuring every Nova Scotian has the opportunity to pursue their dream and contribute to stronger communities is essential to our future as a province. I am proud to work with people of our department to help that happen. I look forward to continuing to work with my colleagues Minister Samson and Minister Delorey in the coming year to make sure that the voices of Acadians and the Gaelic community, as well as my own portfolio of African Nova Scotian Affairs - that those voices in those communities are heard.
Much of what I have described illustrates the breadth of our culture and how broadly we define it here in Nova Scotia. We believe there are more opportunities to further develop our heritage and cultural connections to improve our quality of life, generate economic growth, and strengthen our communities. In fact, we are now well on the way to developing a culture action plan that will establish priorities for preserving, developing and promoting culture in Nova Scotia.
This past winter, we consulted with over 240 stakeholders from organizations that represent artists, performers, producers, cultural organizations, major event promoters, academics, and heritage conservation experts; just to name a few. In short, we spoke with people who are most passionate about and engaged in our communities around culture and heritage. More than 1,000 of these people completed an online survey and attended workshops to provide in-depth input in what culture means to them and where they see opportunities for growth.
Our next step is to engage the public in the conversations about culture to gather their thoughts and ideas. I hope I can count on all of you to participate and spread the word to your contacts so that we get as much input as possible from all in Nova Scotia. We expect to share the final plan or the final analysis of all this in the Fall.
Another important undertaking this year is preparing for our plan for Nova Scotia's participation in Canada's 150th Anniversary, which takes place in 2017. Many of us may remember Canada's Centennial and probably can still sing the same song. I don't know about you, but I often sing it. These are significant anniversaries and they serve to remind us why we are proud of our country and our province.
We are working to ensure that all Nova Scotians can celebrate and take part and have pride in our shared heritage and contributions to Canada in 2017. We will be sure to recognize and honour our diverse communities, and remind all Nova Scotians of our shared hopes for the future. Connection to community is the foundation of the work we do here at Communities, Culture and Heritage. We work closely with arts and sports organizations, heritage experts, municipalities, and citizens with great ideas to help kids be active or to celebrate their communities.
We are also fortunate to receive advice and support through many advisory organizations that work closely with our department. For example, the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council is a partnership between the culture sector and the government designed to foster better understanding and decision making. The council is made up of 16 members who represent the diverse arts and culture industry throughout Nova Scotia. The council provides leadership for the sector by helping to develop policies that benefit culture and grow the creative economy. In fact the council has been instrumental in advising the department on a number of key initiatives, including the culture action plan and program development for the creative economy. I sincerely appreciate the support of the council and would like to thank them for working in partnership with us to achieve common goals.
The link between culture and the economy is strong in Nova Scotia. With the release of Statistics Canada's Culture Satellite Account in 2015, we learned that culture contributed $868 million to Nova Scotia gross domestic product and 14,000 jobs - now these are 2010 numbers. Sport contributed $88 million to the economy and accounted for 2,100 jobs in 2019 in Nova Scotia. This data shows that our investments in the arts, in culture, in heritage, in sport and recreation and in communities makes a difference. They support the development and growth of our athletes, artists, performers, arts organizations and sport and recreation organizations. They also help create a quality of life that Nova Scotians can be proud of.
Our own current research tells us that 80 per cent of Nova Scotians agree that culture helps create community identity; 76 per cent say that culture helps connect people from different communities and backgrounds. Also, 76 per cent say that culture makes them proud of where they live; and the best part: Nova Scotians believe that supporting culture is not just government's responsibility but the responsibility of citizens and private industry as well.
On May 11th, we will have a report that gives us further data on the importance of culture to Nova Scotia, which I will share. We know that our investments are making a difference in the province. In 2016-17, we will invest more than $56 million in programing that directly supports culture, heritage, sport, and recreation in our communities.
I would also like to highlight the important role that Arts Nova Scotia plays. This is an independent body that oversees a budget of $2.9 million in government funding to support programs for professional artists and arts organizations, such as arts education programs and a number of arts awards and prizes. Its 11-member board of directors champions the fundamental role of arts for all Nova Scotians. Arts Nova Scotia envisions a thriving and diverse professional arts community celebrated at home and abroad by breaking new ground, ensuring equity, and achieving a high level of artistic excellence. I would like to acknowledge their hard work and thank them on behalf of the government for their commitment to making arts an integral part of Nova Scotian society.
I would also like to highlight some of the important programming in our Cultural and Heritage Development division, which supports the development of arts, culture, and heritage throughout our province. Our Cultural and Youth Activities Program promotes artistic and community development by investing in activities that promote or enhance the production, creation, or appreciation of community arts and cultural activities. Through our anchor organizations program, we provide operating support to organizations, societies, and associations that produce cultural products, own or manage cultural facilities, or provide services to the culture sector. Our Industry Growth Program supports development projects for artists, groups, and industry professionals that want to broaden sales of Nova Scotian cultural goods and services in regional and international markets.
With the additional investments of $2.5 million for the creative economy, we will be able to provide broader support to our creative industries and help them better capitalize on growth opportunities. We also recognize the important role that festivals and events play in generating economic value and increasing visitation to the province. We are pleased to have $2.6 million in additional resources to support Canada's 150th Anniversary celebrations as well as festivals and major events.
I would also like to thank the Nova Scotia Provincial Lotteries and Casino Corporation for its annual contributions of more than $5 million - for their support for culture, and support for sport programs. Funds for these programs are generated through sales of special lottery ticket products. Nova Scotians know now that when they buy these tickets, they contribute directly to programs that support culture and sport.
As I mentioned earlier, CCH is pleased to welcome the sport and recreation team to our department. We have created a new unit called Communities, Sport, and Recreation to continue to support Nova Scotia's diverse communities for their cultural and physical expression. We believe that this change creates new opportunity for greater alignment in program delivery and already we can see the benefits. My department partners with communities and municipalities in programming and planning that positively affects all communities in the province. Our municipal physical activities leadership program, the community sport develop coordinators and regional physical activity coordinators directly support local active recreation opportunities. This year we are looking forward to implementing the Shared Strategy for Advancing Recreation Nova Scotia, which will be lead in partnership with Recreation Nova Scotia.
Nova Scotia's strategy is the first in Canada where the sector and government share responsibility for action in recreation. It means that recreation organizations, Recreation Nova Scotia, and the government will work together to advance the strategy and assure it is used to set priorities and direction. This government and the sector will be breaking new ground and it promises to be an interesting year because of this new ground.
This year we will also work with sport and recreation stakeholders to address barriers to participation for under-represented populations. Those populations include; women and girls, people with low social economic status and people with disabilities. Integrating healthy activity in formal education, especially in the first 12 years, helps to create healthier and more innovative future citizens. This work will be the focus of the department in collaborating with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.
I would also like to highlight a number of important programs delivered through Nova Scotia that support recreation, sport and physical activity in communities. We are proud to be able to continue to invest in a healthy and active Nova Scotia through "Thrive! A plan for a healthier Nova Scotia." An important program under Thrive! is After the Bell, which supports after-school physical activity programming for junior high students in rural Nova Scotia. Other programs offered under Thrive! include: Facility Access, Walkabout, and Swim to Survive.
I would also like to mention our considerable investment in provincial sport and recreation organizations, and our strong partnerships with Sport Nova Scotia and Recreation Nova Scotia. There are many communities throughout this province that rely on local facilities as gathering places for culture, sport, and recreation activities. I am pleased that our budget contains over $3 million for community and recreational facility improvement projects.
Strong communities contribute to increasing economic growth, quality of life and sense of belonging. We will contribute to revitalizing Nova Scotia's communities and the economy by supporting cultural industries, fostering artistic excellence, preserving and promoting our heritage, promoting the benefits of physical activity, and celebrating our diversity. We know these actions make a difference in the lives of Nova Scotians. We will continue to implement a research and communications strategy to improve measurements of our outcomes and awareness of culture's impact on the economy and social well-being.
In closing, the work of our department and our staff is felt in every part of Nova Scotia. Through the work of our provincial and local museums, public libraries, and archives, through access to French-language services for Acadian and francophone Nova Scotians and learning opportunities that keep Gaelic language and culture alive, through support to artists and creators who drive our vibrant creative economy and who refresh our community, through celebrations of the historical accomplishments and contributions of African Nova Scotians, and through funding to non-profit groups that improve community facilities, our department touches Nova Scotians from Lower West Pubnico to Amherst Shore to Meat Cove. I'm proud of the work we do and excited about our plans for the coming year.
I'll close by thanking the staff at the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage, Arts Nova Scotia, the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council, the Advisory Council on Heritage Property, the Nova Scotia Museum Board of Governors, the Public Archives Board of Governors, the board at the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia, and all the departments, stakeholders, and volunteers who care passionately for their work, who show that passion for their province, and who step up and do what I've been asking as I go around the province to promote, take pride in, and pump up the fact that we have a wonderful province.
If the committee has questions, I would be happy to take them next week. No, I'm only joking. (Interruption) That's okay.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, minister. I want to make a few points before we move into questions. Just a reminder, minister, as you referred to two of your ministerial colleagues by proper name in your opening remarks - please refer to them by their department.
MR. INCE: I apologize.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It is a good reminder, as we move forward today, for all members to refer to people in the third person with respect to ministers or members.
Just before we move to questions, we're using a slightly more informal procedure here and allowing the questioner and the minister to go back and forth without the intervention of the Chair's acknowledgement. After the initial acknowledgement of the questioner and the acknowledgement of the minister, I will allow information to flow back and forth unless things get out of hand in terms of decorum or talking over each other. Then I will interject to keep decorum at this table.
With that, I'd like to move to the PC caucus for one hour of questioning.
The honourable member for Pictou West.
MS. KARLA MACFARLANE: I want to thank the minister for his comments, and I want to thank his department for being here today; the staff who are here with him. In some of your closing remarks, you indicated that your department touches all over Nova Scotia, and I would agree with that, that there's many communities and small villages as well as urban centres that benefit from your department. It is a worthy department, and it's extremely important to Nova Scotia.
I'm going to start off by asking with regard to some of the new money that your department has received from Health and Wellness most recently. The total expenses for the department are up considerably, and I'm wondering if you could just explain when that transaction took place. What kind of discussions were held to determine that this money should come from Health and Wellness into your department?
MR. INCE: What happened was that Health and Wellness was looking at a restructuring. Health and Wellness had seen that this particular department - Active Living - had very similar synergies that we had. That particular department dealt with communities, they delivered programs to communities - it was a natural fit. The monies and everything that transferred over were just as part of the natural transition from that department over to my department.
MS. MACFARLANE: So when did those discussions actually take place?
MR. INCE: I can recall that those discussions started around December/January.
MS. MACFARLANE: Were you part of the discussions?
MR. INCE: No, I wasn't. Well my department was but I wasn't there personally, myself.
MS. MACFARLANE: So what is the total amount that has been transferred to your department?
MR. INCE: The total amount transferred over was $16.3 million.
MS. MACFARLANE: And how many employees were transferred from Health and Wellness over to your department - how many full-time?
MR. INCE: I think that was about 24 FTEs.
MS. MACFARLANE: And out of the 24 FTEs, what is the breakdown for what actual positions they hold?
MR. INCE: You were asking specifically about what positions they hold?
MS. MACFARLANE: Right.
MR. INCE: Well in Communities, Sport and Recreation there is an executive director, there's a director, there's a manager, there's a research officer, there's a program admin officer, historical archival officer, executive assistant, administrative support.
Now administrative support there are eight positions. Also, executive assistant, one; historical archive officer, one; program admin officer, there are 13 positions; two research officers; two managers; three directors; and one executive director. Also you have to keep in mind that we had people in our department already and are complimenting that. When you add it up, you are going to get a total of 30 instead of 24.
MS. MACFARLANE: Okay, so 24 came from Health and Wellness.
MR. INCE: That's correct.
MS. MACFARLANE: Are they all working in your department here in Halifax? Or are there any of those that you have mentioned that are elsewhere in Nova Scotia?
MR. INCE: As a result of Communities, Sport and Recreation, we now have more regional offices because of this. The regional offices are in Cape Breton, the highland region, the central region, Fundy region, South Shore, and the Valley.
MS. MACFARLANE: Have you been to any of those regions to visit them yet?
MR. INCE: No, I haven't. This transition just happened around the 1st of April, so we are still working through a lot of this transition.
MS. MACFARLANE: Can you elaborate more on why the actual transaction happened, though? Was there something that was not working under the Department of Health and Wellness that they felt that they had to transfer that amount of $16.3 million to your department to be managed? I'm just trying to understand why the actual transaction happened.
MR. INCE: This was really more about aligning with us; it's not about Health and Wellness being ineffective. They realized that there was a better opportunity to deliver programs, to provide programming, to this particular area through our department. As you can imagine, we've got a huge vehicle that has many departments, so I would say they thought - and this is just my opinion - that it could be better aligned and put better programming out the door and help communities better through a department that's already been doing that.
MS. MACFARLANE: Did the budget for this decrease when the transfer actually happened, or was it the same before it was put over into your department?
MR. INCE: I would ask you to talk to the Minister of Health and Wellness with respect to their budget and what increased or decreased.
MS. MACFARLANE: But you know that $16.3 million came to your department, to oversee that amount of money. Did you not find out, or are you interested in knowing, what the budget was previously and if there were more employees previously to look after these programs?
MR. INCE: First of all, I would say that - I just lost my train of thought that quickly. One second, sorry.
MS. MACFARLANE: That's okay.
MR. INCE: Our department has had conversations with Health and Wellness, and what I will is, what I've been trying to tell is that there was a transition. We saw the synergies. The programs are still being delivered the same way they were being delivered in the Health and Wellness department through our department. Again, it's all about those synergies, being able to deliver those programs, having the people who understand the communities, understand those delivery programs for communities.
MS. MACFARLANE: There is more than $8 million devoted to development and support with regard to recreation and sports organizations in the province. What sort of projects are actually included?
MR. INCE: To give you an example of some of the programs being delivered through the Communities, Sport and Recreation program - there are quite a number of programs, so let me start. There's a business plan priorities which supports major provincial initiatives in sport and recreation, including kids' sport and federal-provincial sport bilateral agreements. There's another one that's kids' run club.
Now the first one - so under the business plan priorities there is: the Kids' Run Club, which receives about $15,000; there's Kids' Sport which receives about $405,000; Sport Nova Scotia, which is a bilateral agreement and that received $490,000; Mi'kmaq Kina'matnewey Agreement, $110,000; Atlantic University Sports, $20,000; Interprovincial Sport and Recreation Council, $45,000; HIGH FIVE, $65,000; Atlantic HP Strategy, $100,000; WomenActive-NS, $75,000.
There's also a Recreation Facilities Development Grant which is about $2 million, there's a Recreation Facilities Development, which is under that first one, the facilities grant, and that's $1.8 million. Then under that as well there's the planning association which receives $120,000, and Community Recreation Capital Grants which receives $300,000. We also have community development grants which are $515,000 and a grant to provincial organizations for recreation which is $640,000. I can go on, if you'd like.
MS. MACFARLANE: Well I guess I'm curious to know, all these different grants that are put out there that equal $8 million throughout the province, are you able to determine the ratio? Like how much is actually put into rural areas compared to the urban areas?
MR. INCE: I'll have to get back to you on that because I don't have those figures here today.
MS. MACFARLANE: Okay, so is there some model in place to gauge the results of those grants that you give out, to ensure they are worthy of being sponsored?
MR. INCE: First of all, when you look at my department we have a lot of assessment criteria in place for a lot of our programs. This again is something that is new, just transferring over. We haven't had the opportunity really to fully look at it and take a look at that but we will. Once we get a chance to look at that assessment criteria and look at everything, I will get back to you and provide you with that information.
MS. MACFARLANE: Thank you. So when distributing grants for different programs throughout the province and when they were previously administered through the Department of Health and Wellness, are you planning on using the same criteria to basically decide which organizations will receive funding on an annual basis?
MR. INCE: As was mentioned earlier, we will continue to deliver the programming in the same manner that they did before.
MS. MACFARLANE: So there will be a cost benefit analysis done?
MR. INCE: These are programs that have just been transitioned that we are just beginning to look at. Once we have all those details and the information then I can share it with anyone, but again, this is a huge undertaking. There is a huge department and a number of FTEs who have come over. There is a lot for us to look at. Unfortunately, all of that transition just happened April 1st. So if you could just bear with us, and we can take a moment within our department to assess, review and look at all the stuff, we will get to you and provide you the information you're looking for.
MS. MACFARLANE: Do you feel that perhaps you should have been included in the discussions back in December and January to have a better understanding of what all this funding will mean to your department?
MR. INCE: Well I would say to you, yes. In a perfect world it would be, but again, I don't always get to every little meeting and every little thing, especially when things are transferring. I don't always get to it and the staff to the department usually gets it. They brief me. They did brief me on this information, however, again, some of the details that you're looking at - even if I did have that information or was aware, I don't think I could still answer your question because everything is transferring over. We've just created a new division - Communities, Sport and Recreation - so while we are delivering the same programs in the same manner, there may be some tweaks.
Again, I can't speculate because we have to look at everything first and then provide you with all the correct detailed information. I don't want to sit here today and try to mislead you or give you information when I don't have all the information at my hand.
MS. MACFARLANE: I can appreciate that. I know it's a large amount of money - $16.3 million is a large budget to be responsible for and to understand where that $16.3 million went in previous years and if it was distributed across the province fairly. I do hope that you can get back to me with regard to a breakdown of where the actual money goes throughout the province. I would appreciate that.
Stats Canada - as you mentioned, I believe in your remarks - released last June data that showed that arts and culture and heritage contribute $868 million to our province's economy and approximately 14,000 jobs or more, I believe. A press release at the time said that these statistics justified dealing with cultural issues through the Department of Business and NSBI. So if the government's focus is on the business side, how would you explain then your department's role in culture, arts, heritage and sport?
MR. INCE: First of all, I want to say that I was quite excited by those numbers that Stats Canada had released. Our department helped work with Stats Canada and was actually one of the provincial leads on that study. The government already sort of had an in on that because they had supported that work that our department was doing in conjunction with Stats Canada.
That being said, the other thing I was really proud of was finally, in all these years, many people through cultural industries, through the arts world, through dance - they've all often talked about their value, what they bring to society, including what they bring and what they contribute economically. So when these numbers were released, for one whose past involved in the arts community, I was really overjoyed because now we finally have baseline data that quantifies and shows the economic value that culture brings. Until you can bring that data, most people aren't going to listen to you because you have nothing to back it up. We now have that data to back it up.
That being said, I'm extremely proud of what we have to offer - that and the fact that our department is a department that traditionally - and I have a gentleman sitting around the table here who knows where I'm coming from - who traditionally deals with communities and sees the value, sees that pride, sees that sense of belonging - all the things I said in my remarks are there. We value it and our government values that.
Now, when you talk about us presenting and providing supports to that sector, the government has got the right department for it, let me tell you.
MS. MACFARLANE: Okay, thank you. So out of the 14,000 jobs that this Statistics Canada data released, do you have an idea how many of those jobs are more or less in the creative sector, compared to the sports, compared to - as well as they mentioned - the business side of it?
MR. INCE: We do, but first of all let me back up a bit and just remind you that we are talking about 2010 figures. On May 11th we will have more current, up-to-date numbers that relate to 2014 and moving on. The numbers may show us greater or a little less. All I'm saying is that we are talking right now about 2010 numbers, not current numbers, okay?
You wanted to get a sense of where these jobs were and so on?
MS. MACFARLANE: Yes, please.
MR. INCE: Let me just break it down for you. First, under culture, there's about 490 jobs - which is under Heritage and Libraries. Live performances, we're looking about 1,500 jobs; visual and applied arts, you are looking at about 2,700 jobs; written and published works, you are looking at about 3,300 jobs; and audio and visual interactive media, there are about 2,300 jobs. When we look at sport, we're looking at, like I said, about 2,000 jobs.
MS. MACFARLANE: Great, thank you for those. I appreciate that.
I'm going to move on for a moment to departmental finances. I see there's quite an increase in money for cultural and heritage development. I'm just wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on that increase.
MR. INCE: We are looking at an increase due the Creative Economy Fund, which is $2.5 million and the $2 million that is there to help leverage additional funds for Canada 150. There you're looking at primarily the gist of that.
We believe in growing the creative economy. There is potential in this creative economy, as I've stated with 2010 figures. What we are doing is supporting the growth of communities and also opportunities for our businesses, our small communities, the innovators, the people who are thinking and being creative. We're providing some extra supports for those. We have put $2.5 million of this budget into the Creative Industries Fund and other initiatives because of that experience, as I said.
I seem to be rambling on, so let me give you a couple examples of why this is so important. The Creative Industries Fund helps to fund those musicians, publishers, and craft performers, the performing arts and visual arts industries. Traditionally in the past, those particular entities weren't able to access the breadth of monies and funding that they could before. Through this fund, we will be able to support them.
We are working closely with a lot of the stakeholders. We have been working on program design for this particular fund as well. It hasn't all been completed yet, but we are working on it, and we'll be taking applications for this fund in May as well. If you have people who are interested, who are looking to try to bolster, export or even work within the regions, have them apply to the program because in May it will be open for them.
MS. MACFARLANE: So with those comments, could you explain a little bit more about the actual process that your department staff will take to determine how the funding will be delivered to different organizations?
MR. INCE: Again if I may sort of repeat, this is a program that we have been looking at. As I said, it will help many people. I've also indicated that we have been working closely with the stakeholders. We are continuing to have conversations to work with the stakeholders so that we can get a better sense of the program delivery, how they see it. Once we work through all of that, we will then decide next steps.
The one thing I do want to ensure is that you are aware that this department is definitely having conversations with stakeholders. We've worked with stakeholders. On everything that we do, we make sure that we are having those conversations with our stakeholders.
MS. MACFARLANE: So the stakeholders will play a role in determining how the application will look and be rolled out for those who apply?
MR. INCE: Yes.
MS. MACFARLANE: So those determinations must be ready soon because you indicated that they can apply in May.
MR. INCE: Yes.
MS. MACFARLANE: Is this something where you have a particular date when you want all applications to be in, or can someone apply in November? Is it an annual process, or is there a cut-off date?
MR. INCE: It will be open, and they will be able to apply as there are projects. They can come to us. They can throw in their applications. Based on how we and the stakeholders decide this program will be delivered, their applications will be dealt with.
MS. MACFARLANE: Under gross expenses, I see there are chargeables to other departments that resulted in a number of $760,000 last year. What exactly were these chargeables? Why were they so much more than what was the estimate for last year?
MR. INCE: The partnerships are something that go on, on a regular basis in government. The recoveries from those departments are a status quo or a normal thing between interdepartmental negotiations and dealings.
To answer your question on why it's significantly more right now, the first thing is that we had monies that went to the Ross Farm Learning Centre, which was a project that was in partnership with TIR. There was another one with Screen Nova Scotia and the Department of Business. There was a partnership there and with Screen Nova Scotia. Last was the Lunenburg Marine Museum Society, in partnership with TIR on that as well.
MS. MACFARLANE: When looking at funding for Acadian Affairs, we see that it was down slightly. I'm just wondering if you can elaborate on why it was down.
MR. INCE: What you're seeing is a reflection from last year. There were no reductions in any of our cultural departments at all. As I said, basically and simply, this year we're seeing the full effect of those reductions that you saw last year.
MS. MACFARLANE: Okay, so with Acadian Affairs and African Nova Scotian Affairs, they're down for the same reason?
MR. INCE: Yes. There were no changes in those offices.
MS. MACFARLANE: Okay. However, when looking at it, Gaelic Affairs is down for a second year in the running. Was there something different with that department?
MR. INCE: No, there is no change in Gaelic Affairs. As I said, at our cultural offices, we haven't done any further reductions or anything to them. What you're seeing is a result of last year.
MS. MACFARLANE: So Gaelic Affairs was down last year.
MR. INCE: Yes.
MS. MACFARLANE: Then why we see it down this year is the same reason you've given for the other two departments?
MR. INCE: That's correct. No office has any reductions this year.
MS. MACFARLANE: How often do you meet the Minister of Gaelic Affairs and the Minister of Acadian Affairs?
MR. INCE: Actually, I could say I meet with them every Thursday. I would say to you that my deputy and the executive directors meet with those people on a regular basis.
MS. MACFARLANE: Departmental operating costs have increased, though. Can you explain why?
MR. INCE: That would be as a result of and primarily due to the transfer of operating costs from the Department of Health and Wellness, as well as amortization adjustments for the Bluenose II restoration.
MS. MACFARLANE: The total number of funded staff, though, has increased. Out of those FTEs associated with the recreational funding that came from Health and Wellness, I'm just wondering, if that's not the case, what are the jobs that those FTEs are doing?
MR. INCE: Nothing has changed. Those folks who were transferred over are still doing the same job they were doing before.
MS. MACFARLANE: What I'm asking is, the total number of funded staff has increased, so are those FTEs associated with the recreational funding?
MR. INCE: Yes.
MS. MACFARLANE: So 4.5 FTEs are funded by external agencies. I'm wondering if you can let me know what those agencies are.
MR. INCE: That would be the federal government, as a result of the French languages services provided by Acadian Affairs. Those would be the federal government employees.
MS. MACFARLANE: In November a press release entitled "Film Industry Effort to Lead Growth Receives Government Support" was jointly issued by Communities, Culture and Heritage and the Department of Business. No one from CCH was quoted, though, although they were quite involved. What actually is your involvement with this infrastructure money? I'm assuming it had something to do with the film industry.
MR. INCE: First of all, let me state that I'm incredibly proud of our film industry as well.
MS. MACFARLANE: Me too.
MR. INCE: They are an important part of what we do here in the province, and they are an important part of the creative economy. But you have to remember now that it has its own fund. It's a $10 million fund in NSBI.
The one thing that's missing from the discussion is the broad way that CCH supports the film sector. That's often missing. CCH provides foundational support to the various sectors like music and the performing arts. They are all connected to the film industry.
CCH also supports the creation and development of emerging and independent filmmakers. These are filmmakers who are not doing commercial work. Here's a couple of examples, if you'll allow me. Arts Nova Scotia supports projects by independent Nova Scotian filmmakers and film organizations that are not commercial or are not based on a script that they wrote. Ashley McKenzie, an award-winning Nova Scotia filmmaker, was funded to create and direct an independent feature-length film about methadone-dependent people. Another person, Stephanie Clattenburg, was funded to write a short film.
Also our department, which many people aren't aware of, supports film festivals, like the Atlantic Film Festival and the Out East Film Festival, which features LBGTQ films and filmmakers. We also support Devour! The Food Film Fest. Operational support: CCH supports Screen Nova Scotia to help them provide location services. We also support the Atlantic Filmmakers Cooperative and the Centre for Art Tapes. Those are some of the things that we do.
Often I have to repeat this - people tend to forget that CCH cultural industries are a huge part of the film industry as well. I take a little exception when people say we don't support them. We support them . . .
MS. MACFARLANE: I didn't say that.
MR. INCE: No, not you. That wasn't directed at you. Sorry. It wasn't directed at you, but I've heard people say it. I'm saying that these are some examples of how we greatly support that industry and the other industries.
MS. MACFARLANE: This is a good segue, then, because I am going to ask a few questions with regard to the film industry.
Are you concerned, though? I understand that there is still support. I don't believe that the support they had previously is there but yes, there is still some support in place. Are you concerned about the decrease in film and television production in our province since the Film Tax Credit has been cut drastically?
MR. INCE: Change is never easy for a lot of people. There are changes and I support my government's changes of the industry. As was said, we cannot continue to go down that same path in the same way that we were supporting the industry. We have to take a look at how we do this so that we can better make sure that, as I've mentioned earlier, people within the industry are getting supported as well, like the publishers and the musicians. They weren't getting the same supports in the past. We have now broadened that support to help lift them up, as well as the industry.
As I said, I support our government's decision and the changes that are made. We have to give it a chance to see if it will work. Changes don't happen just like that instantly. There's always a transition, a time when change has to be observed and monitored. You have to tweak it. There's all kinds of back and forth and negotiations and everything. This is where we're at.
MS. MACFARLANE: Did you personally take part in any of the consultations prior to the Film Tax Credit cut?
MR. INCE: Did I personally? No.
MS. MACFARLANE: So you had no meetings with any of the stakeholders?
MR. INCE: I've had a few meetings with people and stakeholders when the minister was travelling around the province at the time showing and delivering her - actually, what she had was consultations with people talking about a direction. There were a few people at these meetings from the film industry, and we had a few conversations. But that was the extent of it. I didn't have any real conversations with the top players at the time.
MS. MACFARLANE: We do know, though, that for every dollar invested in the film industry, there is a $7 return. Was there anything on your part to consider the calculation of your department's ability to contribute to the film credit conversation in terms of the impact of the industry on the province's cultural identity?
MR. INCE: What I can say is that the film industry has a $10-million budget. They are with NSBI. The conversations prior to now are kind of moot right now in terms of where we're at. As I said, I support our government. The monies for the fund are in NSBI.
Also, the film industry has an opportunity and has an ability, and they still can come to us on certain programs - not the industry itself, but players within the industry. There are many supports from our department and from the business.
If you're wondering about those questions, I would ask you to speak to the Department of Business and the minister who's handling film.
MS. MACFARLANE: But your department has supported and still remains to support the creative industries. Have you personally made any attempt to develop any new programs to keep our talented film and television professionals here in our province?
MR. INCE: I've given you the examples. With Arts Nova Scotia, we support independent film makers. We've supported film festivals. There are operational supports through Screen Nova Scotia.
MS. MACFARLANE: Have you created any new programs, though, any new initiatives?
MR. INCE: Well you would have to talk to the Department of Business because they are the ones who handle the film industry.
MS. MACFARLANE: In your department, have you personally taken on any new initiatives to promote new programs for the creative industry under your department?
MR. INCE: We certainly have.
MS. MACFARLANE: Okay. Can you list those?
MR. INCE: Let me go back and tell you, again, that we've put $2.5 million into this budget for the creative economy and the industry funds. I spoke a little earlier on that, and I've indicated that this fund will help burgeoning musicians and publishers and the people who write scripts and the music end of it and the people who do the design and the crafts within that industry. I gave you some other examples of the supports we provide. I don't know what else to tell you.
MS. MACFARLANE: Okay, thank you. I'm going to move on to museums for a moment. We have 27 provincial museums, 13 national historic sites, and dozens of community-based museums in Nova Scotia that offer plenty of history to explore. I'm just wondering if you will experience everything yourself this summer? Will you be travelling around? Do you have a set agenda for this summer to travel to these places?
MR. INCE: I haven't stopped travelling since I've been in office. I get around quite a bit. Actually I'm kind of worried my wife may tell me, you go with the province not with me, because I'm always on the go. No, just joking. She's great.
That being said, first of all, let me correct you. We have 28 museums not 27. I've been to many of the museums right across this province.
Let me back up for a minute because you've just helped me realize how much I appreciate this province, so much so because I've been around. Before getting into this job, I had very little opportunity to travel around the province in the manner that I have since I've been elected. I've been to communities that I had no idea were alive and well and doing what they were doing.
That being said, I've been to almost all the museums that are under us - beautiful places with a lot of expression. They value their local histories. They also value the province's history. They tell great stories. They display great artifacts and pieces of property that talk about our participation, not only locally but internationally. So yes, the museums are wonderful.
MS. MACFARLANE: How do you assess each museum's contribution to the culture and heritage of our province? How do you gauge that? Do you have a model that's put in place to gauge how much they receive each year? What is that total?
MR. INCE: There is a master interpretive plan. That master interpretive plan is very broad. There are themes. There are many things that go into us helping (Interruption) There is this master interpretive plan, which is used to guide. There are many themes, but there are also many other factors that go into that. If you would like, I can break that down. Better yet, I think you might be more interested, if I may, in the amounts that go to each museum. Are you interested?
MS. MACFARLANE: Well no, I just asked for the total amount.
MR. INCE: The total amount is $11.4 million.
MS. MACFARLANE: Out of that, I'm just wondering how many full-time employees there are at the 28 museums.
MR. INCE: There are 81.8.
MS. MACFARLANE: And part time?
MR. INCE: That 81.8 is the FTEs, which is the full time equivalents.
MS. MACFARLANE: Do we have a number on summer students?
MR. INCE: We can get that to you.
MS. MACFARLANE: Are you anticipating an increase in summer students with the extra federal help this year?
MR. INCE: It would be nice. It would be something that I would welcome.
MS. MACFARLANE: Last year a news story said that employees at regional museums would be on board the Nova Star during the tourist season. Are you aware, did that ever happen?
MR. INCE: We did have employees in the Acadian Village.
MS. MACFARLANE: Were they paid by the province?
MR. INCE: Yes, because some of those employees are part of our museum system so they were used within that.
MS. MACFARLANE: Were any of them summer students?
MR. INCE: I'll get back to you. I'm not sure.
MS. MACFARLANE: I'm going to move on to the heritage project in Yarmouth. I know that we discussed it a bit last year. I'm just wondering if you can provide an update.
MR. INCE: Are you talking about Heritage in Your Hand, the app?
MS. MACFARLANE: Yes.
MR. INCE: I saw something about a month ago that they had a lot of uptake. They had a lot of positives. They even had many other communities and regions looking at their idea. However, the details around the update and everything else, I will get back to you with that, but there was something published in the paper just recently.
MS. MACFARLANE: Your department invested $35,000. What was the company that you invested the $35,000 in to create the app?
MR. INCE: We'll get back to you on that. To my knowledge it was a community organization, not - but anyway, we'll get back to you on that.
MS. MACFARLANE: So do you consider that it has been a successful project?
MR. INCE: From what I'm understanding, yes, it's quite successful up to this point. Again, I'll have to get back to you on the details because I don't know exactly where they are at this point. I do know that they've moved forward. They've been successful at creating the apps and they've started working with NSCC and some community groups and things like that. But any more details than that, I can't give you at this point.
MS. MACFARLANE: Can you tell me how you determined last year that it was Yarmouth that would be chosen to use this app? How did you determine Yarmouth as the location?
MR. INCE: It was the community groups and the community themselves who came to us and said, look, we have an idea here. Anything that would help us - listen, I'm all about communities growing, trying to be sustainable. Any community that comes to me with an idea, I'm going to be open to at least hearing what they've got to present. They came to us. They said, this is what we'd like to do. They presented everything; they laid it all out. We said, okay, let's see how this works.
MS. MACFARLANE: Yes, I realize they came to you two years ago. You invested $35,000. Yet you have not been able to gauge if it's been a successful project or not and whether or not other municipalities may be able to tap in and receive that investment as well?
MR. INCE: As I said, I'd like to get back to you and give you those details, because the project itself was just introduced - well, not just introduced, but they are still working on it. I can't say to you that the project is not doing well; as I said, I need to get some more details for you.
It's been very positive up to this point for communities, organizations, and groups. It was also the top topic when we had the heritage conference down there, because people were moved and motivated by this unique idea of capturing, trapping, and collecting data, and pinpointing areas within a community that speak about its cultural heritage. It makes it easier for communities. It makes it easier for visitors, for everyone, to look at - and you know this, because we've had a bit of conversation, and you said you were going to look into it.
MS. MACFARLANE: So here we are a year later, and that's exactly why I'm asking. I do know of communities that are interested in doing something similar. I asked last year about how the project was moving along and if it was going to be a success or not. I'm hoping that you can bring that information to me, because I do believe it is a good project, but I don't believe it should be just in isolation to the Yarmouth area. I believe that there should be some form, through your department, to gauge whether or not it's been a success so that we can bring that project to other regions in the province that are definitely tourist areas, especially in rural areas . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please. The time has expired for your one-hour allotment. We'll now move to the New Democratic Party caucus.
The honourable member for Sackville-Cobequid, for one hour.
HON. DAVID WILSON: Thank you, minister, and thank you to your department for being here. It's definitely an interest of mine - as the minister mentioned - as former minister when we created the new department. There's a lot of good work that has taken place since then. Some of my questions may be a little bit more detailed, and I understand if the information isn't available; hopefully the minister and his department can get it to us.
Just some clarity - and I listened to most of the questions from my colleague on the increase in budget. We know that a lot of programs have been transferred into Communities, Culture and Heritage. When you look at the overall budget from estimate to estimate, it's just shy of an increase of $20 million. It's $19,852,000. Just for my benefit, can you give me the increase in budget that you have received from other departments? I know you threw out some figures earlier, and I have a whole bunch of figures written down. I think there was somewhere around $16 million or something. I wonder if the minister could be a little bit more specific on the increase in your budget that you have from other departments coming into CCH.
MR. INCE: As was indicated earlier, most of it came from Health and Wellness for the FTEs. There is another $2 million to support and leverage federal funding for Canada 150. There is an additional $2.5 million - not from another department, sort of within the creative economy. For major events, there's $500,000.
The other fund, again, goes back to Sport and Recreation. There's Communities, Sport and Recreation funding which came in from Sport and Recreation.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I see that the current estimate is $16.3 million. Last year, under that line item, it indicates about $1 million. So I assume it's about $15 million that would have come from Sport and Recreation? Am I doing the math correctly?
MR. INCE: There would have been an initial about $13 million that came over from Sport and Recreation. Then there was an additional amount from Communities added in there, which gave you that total.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Under Communities there was, of course, a previous estimate and forecast of about $1 million. I think what was spent at the end of 2015 going into 2016 was $1.3 million. Can you give me a little bit of the details on what that line item entails? What did those funds go towards?
So, just a little bit more on the communities aspect in the line item; that was in the department in previous years at about $1.3 million. What was that $1.3 million for, just so we can get a good look at what's ahead of us for the upcoming year?
MR. INCE: Let me give you an idea. First of all, here's a bit of a description of the program for you, if you'd like. The program provides integrated support for diversity and community capacity and sustainable development. It provides facilities access to programs and services, promotes and celebrates Nova Scotia's diversity, and supports welcoming communities by encouraging the expression of their vibrant culture and heritage, including traditionally marginalized communities.
Some of those programs under that: there's diversity and social inclusion, which totalled at $1.9 million. There's the Community Facilities Improvement Fund, which is at $1 million. Then there's the Diversity and Communities Capacity Fund, which is $250,000. The Community Access Program provides funding support for 200 campsites, and part of that was federal money.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Any indication if the federal money is still there for this year's budget? They didn't cut it?
MR. INCE: Yes, it is status quo.
MR. DAVID WILSON: The Community Facilities Improvement Fund, is that currently at $1 million?
MR. INCE: Yes.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I know those applications will be ready once the budget passes. Are they available for groups? I know that in the past, they could go to the website for the department. Is it on the website currently?
MR. INCE: It is. Actually, all you need to do is go on, and you can access any of our programs on the website now.
MR. DAVID WILSON: The Department of Health and Wellness I know transferred the bulk of the increase in services that you're going to provide. Are there any other departments that transferred in any programs or FTEs or any functions that will fall under CCH now?
MR. INCE: There was $180,000 transferred over to us from the Festivals and Event program. There was another $100,000 transferred over with regard to the Legions.
MR. DAVID WILSON: That would have come - I'm trying to think - not from Business, but it would have been Municipal Affairs?
MR. INCE: Yes.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I know you indicated that there was a new fund for the creative economy. Is that a 100-per cent grant-driven fund where $2.5 million will be divvied up to organizations, groups, associations, individuals? Is that correct, $2.5 million to the creative economy? Is that 100 per cent grants to be issued to the public?
MR. INCE: Yes it is.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Would you be able to provide what the criteria would be for groups?
MR. INCE: Certainly. It is application based. I would just like to indicate that I've spoken to many organizations and community organizations that have applied for this. They all speak very highly of this and the need for this money for their organizations. Many of them have seen the results of the pride that they've been able to instill once they've done an event - not so much an event but a program or did something that would help their communities grow and show their pride.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Is that the creative economy grant you're talking about?
MR. INCE: Yes.
MR. DAVID WILSON: You're saying that they've applied already?
MR. INCE: No, I'm talking about individuals who were looking for that type of support in the past and when they did get support from our department. I just echoed their satisfaction and how much it helps them.
MR. DAVID WILSON: So there's no applications yet because it's a new program.
MR. INCE: Not yet. This is new.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I would assume that's not on the website yet. The budget hasn't passed. Will the criteria be on the website relatively quickly after the budget is passed?
MR. INCE: Yes sir. All of that will be available to all.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I have to say, this is my 13th Budget Estimates - interestingly enough, I'm still in my forties. A lot of what we do in Opposition is look back at last year's funding and what the estimates were and what the forecasts were, and try to judge the direction the current government is going. It's a bit difficult with the movement of a lot of the services around.
I have to give some kudos to the Department of Internal Services. When you go through the Budget Estimates and the books, you could find the information really easily under their department with last year's estimates and forecasts and then nothing for this year.
Trying to find that under the Department of Health and Wellness - I know it's not your responsibility - but with what's moved into your department, it's difficult to try to find out if the budget was cut, how much was spent last year, or if there's been an increase or decrease. I've had to go back to last year's budget and try to find out where we're at. So I'm a bit frustrated with trying to see where the money is.
That's kind of where I'm going to go with some of my line of questioning. Do you have a list that you can provide to us? Especially under Programs and Services under Communities, Sport and Recreation, the only real estimate and forecast that we have from last year that we can go to is the communities information that we have. Of course the other ones are all blank.
Do you have and can you provide us with what the forecast and estimates were last year? Is that something you didn't work on and should be the responsibility of the Department of Health and Wellness - which I would agree with - and I'll ask them?
MR. INCE: Department of Health and Wellness.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Okay. But I will go to last year's budget and talk a little bit more about some of the programs that had moved over.
One of them that I noticed with a significant decrease was a line item of Safe and Equitable Physical Activity under the current budget, $222,000. This is Page 5.4 - sorry, under Communities, Culture and Heritage. If you look back at what was budgeted last year in the Department of Health and Wellness, there was well over $774,000, so it's a reduction of well over $500,000.
Are you able to give us any information on why a half a million dollars was cut in Safe and Equitable Physical Activity, and maybe a little bit about that line item and what those Programs and Services actually do?
MR. INCE: I can tell you that the variance is about $552,000. The Department of Health and Wellness retained its funding for the water safety program, so that's what that was for.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Thank you for answering that; I appreciate it. Also, there's one other - just a reduction, not a significant one - Health Activity Lifestyles, roughly $107,000 from what was spent last year to this year. I'm wondering if the minister could give me some details on that one.
MR. INCE: Again, that is connected with the Department of Health and Wellness retaining funding for the water safety contract escalation.
MR. DAVID WILSON: All right. I'll have to ask the Minister of Health and Wellness when we get there about that one. I appreciate that. It does make it a bit difficult trying to figure out exactly what was spent and where we're at this year.
I'd like to move ahead on a couple of pages, to Page 5.2, under Programs and Services. You can also look at - under them, I guess - they're individual - under Acadian Affairs and African Nova Scotian Affairs. Is it appropriate to ask those? It's under the department's budget. I know for policy-type questions, we can ask the minister who oversees Acadian Affairs and Gaelic Affairs.
But if you look at Acadian Affairs on a budget line item, there's a small reduction from estimates to estimates and one from forecast to estimates on what was spent last year and what will be spent. It's around $36,000 to $39,000. Knowing the work that Acadian Affairs does in the province, it might not seem significant in the whole overall picture of an $81-million budget, but in that department, that could be a position that helps get a program out.
Was there any significant reason, or is that a 1-per cent reduction - I haven't done the math - that was required from Finance and Treasury Board? I wonder if the minister could give me a little bit of detail on that.
MR. INCE: Again, to go back and just reiterate, these were administrative efficiencies that were found last year. Half of the value of the efficiencies found was recognized last year, and what you're seeing, as I mentioned earlier - if I may repeat that - is a follow-up from that paperwork and those decisions being made last year showing up on the paper this year.
MR. DAVID WILSON: So no decrease in programs that you're aware of?
MR. INCE: No decreases at all. There have been no changes in any of my cultural offices.
MR. DAVID WILSON: If you look under African Nova Scotian Affairs, a similar circumstance, about 12 - if you go from estimate to estimate it's a little more, around $58,000. Would you have the same comment for them?
MR. INCE: Yes, that's correct. Again, it's just showing up. It represents that full-year impact, so that's what you are seeing right now.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Can you indicate a type of savings that they may have found? I'll utilize African Nova Scotian Affairs. Give me an example if you could, minister, on a type of savings that you found.
MR. INCE: Well, it was vacant FTEs. That's where that savings came from.
MR. DAVID WILSON: With all respect, minister, vacant FTEs are always there, and you can find those savings, so it's not really a change in direction. It's just if you don't fill a position, you save $70,000. Is there any impact on your program services by losing FTEs within some of those departments?
When you talk about FTEs, if you look at it, it's not really one full person. African Nova Scotian Affairs was budgeted last year for 9.2, and they utilized 8.3 - I still haven't figured out how you can have 0.3 of a person in the department - and this year it is 8.6. It's not really anything significant there. Is there any impact on services with you cutting those positions this year?
MR. INCE: Let me speak to you about African Nova Scotian Affairs, if I could. There were no additional changes or impacts on the services we delivered. As a matter of fact, I can speak to the fact that last year and the year before in African Heritage Month we had more events throughout that month over the last couple of years than they've had in the past - to increase the number of events, to increase the number of activities for the month, and we've been able to deliver those. I would suggest that there hasn't been an impact on delivery for those programs.
MR. DAVID WILSON: All right, thank you. I'll have to ask, I guess, for all - Gaelic Affairs is the same. There's about a $72,000 difference between what was spent last year and what the budget is for this year, with no real significant change - I guess half of an FTE. Are you saying that that's what the savings reflect - a reduction in half a FTE for the reduction of about $77,000 for Gaelic Affairs?
MR. INCE: Yes.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Under the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia - I know the work they do there is extremely important, and the sheer magnitude of the artifacts that we have and that we display is something we should all be proud of in the province. Again, if you look at the budget, there's roughly about a $155,000 difference between what was spent last year and what was budgeted this year. Could you indicate how you came about with that savings of $155,000, roughly?
MR. INCE: I believe you might be comparing your 2015-16 forecast to 2016-17 estimates. Is that correct?
MR. DAVID WILSON: Correct, yes.
MR. INCE: Okay. We don't analyze the forecast for the new year to estimates, since the new year pertains to different operation plans.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Okay, so even if we do estimate to estimate, there's a $70,000 discrepancy or reduction. What would that entail?
MR. INCE: That would be because of the transfer of maintenance funding to the Internal Services Department for the art gallery of Yarmouth.
MR. DAVID WILSON: In Yarmouth?
MR. INCE: Yes, the Yarmouth Art Gallery, when the funds were transferred.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I can't remember if it's an executive director or a CEO of the art gallery. What's the term for the senior person? Is it the director of the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia?
MR. INCE: I think it's the director.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I believe there's a posting now for that position. Has that been filled?
MR. INCE: It's in the process of a competition right at the moment.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Is it vacant, or is there an interim director?
MR. INCE: Yes, there is an interim person in there in that capacity.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I remember a number of years ago - it seems like yesterday - there was talk around the need for a new gallery in the province. I know a lot of my time since then has been dealing with Health and Wellness, so I may have missed this. Is there still a push to look for a new building to house the art gallery? I know that the artifacts in there are precious, and over the years, there have been a number of concerns with the building across the street. Is that still something? There's been a push, I know, not only in government, but the private sector are looking at a potential new site. Is that still on the radar for the government?
MR. INCE: That is a really key issue for a lot of people. People have approached me on many levels. People even came with plans to talk about it. That is something that the board at the art gallery has expressed interest in. They have shown that they are looking at that. They are having conversations, and once they have those conversations and once they want to address me and talk about it, we're open to having those conversations with them.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I thought there was a feasibility study done in the past. It may be outdated by now. Is there any designated funding in this year's budget that would go to help formulate these discussions and assist the board on how we move forward and what it looks like? Is there any funding in this year's budget?
MR. INCE: There is no money in the budget for it, but if you come to us and you're looking for support, I would definitely look at supporting and trying to help.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Maybe I'll get a phone call from a board member, and I'll have to ask you a question about it tomorrow.
I might jump around a little bit. You indicated in a previous answer around the increase in FTEs - I think it was around 24. If you look under the office of the minister and the deputy, there has been - oh, no, there's no reduction; sorry about that.
Here's a softball question, I guess. There has been a reduction in the budget for the office of the minister and deputy minister. I thought I was looking at FTEs, but they are the same. So I'll ask, where did you find some savings in the minister's department and the deputy minister's department?
MR. INCE: Actually, it's operational savings. They were actually found in travel and meeting expenses.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I want to go back - I know I was asking a little bit about the applications. This is an area that can be frustrating for a lot of groups out there looking for funding. They come to the MLA's office, and there are different sources you can turn to. Your department is definitely the department that we often turned to over the last number of years. I know when it was created in 2011, the funding towards the community grants and stuff, there was a lot of interest.
With the new creative economy programs, you are committed to making sure that the criteria and the applications, the deadlines - all that will be on the website. Is that the preference, that you go to the web for that? Why I ask is, I have applications for everything in my office, and maybe your office is the same. Is there an opportunity to provide a package to the MLAs outlining the programs and outlining applications and criteria so that we can help guide the groups and the associations in our communities? The last thing I want is to send a group saying, there may be potential funding here, and they don't meet the criteria. It doesn't go government any good, and it doesn't do myself any good.
I'm wondering if there could be a commitment to make sure that the MLAs' offices have up-to-date application form criteria for the programs that exist and the new ones coming up?
MR. INCE: Most definitely. Actually, what I would urge is that you do go out and make sure that your people are aware of what we provide - the applications and the funding that's available now. To give you an example, if anybody is trying to look at hosting a major event - now not many people can hold major events, but if they are looking at that, they can apply for that now for anything.
As I've said, when it comes to the funds, I've asked even in my speech that you reach out to everyone and let them know about what we're doing because our department can't provide those supports to communities - we can't help lift them up, we can't help them grow, we can't help them celebrate - unless they come to us and let us know that they are interested.
My staff is excellent at working with people, working with communities, trying to help people even navigate through their applications. Let me just say to you, we are a department that is open. We are welcoming, and we look forward to seeing applications come in.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Canada 150 - and I know I wrote it down here, I apologize - is that a $2-million program?
MR. INCE: Yes.
MR. DAVID WILSON: And the details on that criteria, when will those be available for us to kind of advocate and push out into the community?
MR. INCE: I would say, stay tuned, because that information is coming very soon.
MR. DAVID WILSON: All right, thank you. I want to go to Development Programs under Culture and Heritage Development. It shows the budget was increased by $2.2 million. I wonder if the minister could give us just a bit of detail on what that increase is for. You may have already answered, with all the programs we talked about.
MR. INCE: That increase is indicated by the Canada 150 events of $2 million, which I said we can also use to leverage federal funding, and the transfer of festivals and events programming to the department from the Department of Business, which is an amount of $108,000.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Under Programs and Services, I'm trying to find what the previous budget was for Thrive! Are you able to provide that? I know it's about a million dollars - $965,000. This is a great program. Are you able to provide that? I can ask the Minister of Health and Wellness. Are you able to provide what last year's budget was for that?
MR. INCE: Well first of all, you can find it under the COPS, which you were looking at. Then in terms of what the budget was in the past and everything, again you'd have to talk to the Minister of Health and Wellness.
MR. DAVID WILSON: It's pretty close. I think it was $1,015,000, and it's pretty close to that, so I won't go after you on why a little bit of a discrepancy from that.
A little bit about items under Archives, Museums, Libraries, just trying to be clear on the lines that we have there - Executive Director budget, for example, in 2015 was $3.7 million, and the forecast to have spent was $5.9 million. I wonder if you could give a little detail on that. It's a significant increase in what was estimated and then the forecast or what was spent. I wonder if the minister could give us a breakdown on what that entails.
MR. INCE: The ask that you have, I'll explain it. It relates to the Bluenose II delay settlement and the amortization expenses due to the Bluenose II delay claim.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Has that budget moved out of the department, or is it still held within the department? I know the work is over in TIR, but does CCH still hold that budget line?
MR. INCE: Yes.
MR. DAVID WILSON: We may see that change in the future, I guess. I don't think I'm going to go too much into that one. I know it's an area that's a lot of concern for people but it will definitely be interesting how that all unfolds.
Museum funding - I tried to find it here, but I can't find it in here. Has the budget changed for the museum funding?
MR. INCE: No, that is staying the same.
MR. DAVID WILSON: So it's the same budget? Okay. I know a number of years ago - there's always concern, especially with some of the smaller museums and lack of ability for new museums to come in and receive funding through the museum program. Has there been any look at changing that, trying to accommodate for potentially new sites in the province?
I know most of that budget is allocated every year, and they depend on it. But I know there was some work on trying to make the museums more accountable for that funding, on a good and bad basis, knowing that many of them have a volunteer board and board of directors and often aren't experts in financing and accounting and all that. I wonder if the minister can give us a little update on where you're at with that and how we move forward and what will be in the future of museum funding.
MR. INCE: Well, you've heard me sort of go on before, talking about the fact that we consult, and we work with a lot of people. That being said, we are working with the museums' associations to actually discuss and review and deliver the programs better, hopefully. We will develop a new evaluation framework once we've worked with the associations and figured out how we can better serve those associations.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Will that be done within this calendar year? Will they be given some notice on new requirements if you decide to go down that road? I'm not saying that that is where we should be going or ought to go, but if you do make changes, will they be consulted, and will they be given some time to adjust?
MR. INCE: Most certainly. If any changes were made to that system and the way we deliver the programs, we would definitely engage all those who are involved to let them know about the changes, what the changes are, and where we're going in the future.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I know, being in your position at one time, have there been any changes to the specific amount of money that each museum receives? I haven't heard from Fultz House in Sackville. I know there's a detailed list. Are you able to provide us with that detailed list?
MR. INCE: Certainly.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Okay, if you could do that. Have there been any changes? I'll specifically ask a constituent question about Fultz House. Have there been any changes in the budget that Fultz House will receive this year from last year?
MR. INCE: No, there are no changes currently.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I don't need you to read them all - we could eat up some time, I guess; I do have a few minutes here - but if you could provide that to me, I would appreciate that.
MR. INCE: Okay, let's talk about your favourite: Fultz House, $3.83 - that's $383,000.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Yes, $383,000, I believe. If it's $3.8 million, they'll take it.
MR. INCE: If they had $3.8 million, they wouldn't need . . .
MR. DAVID WILSON: Even as minister, I couldn't get that for them - $383,000, all right.
MR. INCE: It's $3,830; sorry.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Yes, I'm thinking even $300,000, they'd take that, too.
MR. INCE: No, $3,830.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I know they've worked hard over the last couple of years. They do an amazing job there, just like I know a lot of them do around the province. Hopefully we'll get you out. It's close, so you don't have to go on an overnight trip to come visit Fultz House. They're an amazing group of people. They've got some new people on board, the new president. They're moving to get a stagecoach this summer.
Was there any funding available? Did any funding come from the department? I'm not criticizing or anything. Are you aware of any funding that came through the department for a stagecoach that they're going to have this summer?
MR. INCE: Interesting that you talk about that. About two years ago I met the gentleman at Fultz House, and he talked about this stagecoach. He talked about all this. But to tell you the truth, I don't recall. I'll have to double check to see if he did follow up, if he did send something in. I met him at an event, and he was really quite passionate about this stagecoach and possibly even having a run from the house and so on. I'm fully aware of what he was interested in doing.
MR. DAVID WILSON: He's passionate. Elmer, the president, is very passionate about it.
I know one of the challenges for a lot of those museums is when they go after a project like that. Usually when you get the museum funding, that's it, and we can't do any more. Is there a program for that? Are there going to be any limitations on the other programs for non-profits like that that receive funding? Maybe it's not for the specific stagecoach, but for operations. Will they be eliminated from any other funding in the new programs that you see?
MR. INCE: Unfortunately, no. It is what it is in those programs.
MR. DAVID WILSON: Maybe I'm not clear. Fultz House gets funding for the museum program. If they come up with a program that might fit in with one of the other areas - even in the creative economy, because they bring in acts and everything - will there be something there? Sometimes programs don't allow for that organization to apply for other funding if they're already receiving funding for something else.
Hopefully I'm clear. At the current time, do you know if they'll be excluded from any of the new programs that you're taking on, through active living, through recreation, and all that?
MR. INCE: I would ask them to go on line and really look and try to see - if they are not understanding, or they are not quite sure - if they can fit into a particular fund or program that they are trying to get into. Engage my staff. My staff will help them. As I said earlier, they are very good, and they will help them try to understand. They might ask them questions and draw out some other things that they probably weren't even aware of, and they could go to a different program.
I would urge anyone, don't cut yourself off. At least give it a chance. Deal with my staff and try to go into the programs. They may qualify for something else under a different thing, as you said.
The support for culture has a program for museums that may even put out an interpretive project. To give you an example - now you can run and tell them - but this stagecoach might be an interpretive project. The operative words are "might be."
MR. DAVID WILSON: Hopefully there's Hansard of this, and I can take it to the group later on. No, I appreciate that, I do.
I know I've got a few minutes left. One of the programs that was near and dear to me, I had the privilege to announce it under the Department of Health and Wellness, was Thrive! It's a program that I hope will get attention. It is needed under your department. It's one that I think can help with the overall issue around activity and trying to reduce the use of health care.
I was wondering if you could give us a little update on new initiatives. I know it's new. You're 25 days into having this program. I'm wondering if you could give us a little bit of an update. Are you committed to the program? Is it going to be expanded and well-used to make sure that it continues and does the work that I think it has done over the last couple of years?
MR. INCE: For others - I know you understand it but for others who may not - Thrive! is a plan for a healthier Nova Scotia. It focuses on funding physical activity and healthy eating and outlines the priority actions to create environments that make it easier for Nova Scotians to be active.
Now, we all know how important that is. We look at people who aren't eating properly, the high rates of diabetes and overweight, and young people today who have being inundated with their electronic devices that keep them from being a bit more active.
The Thrive! program has four separate programs underneath it. There is the Learn to Swim program, which will receive $180,000. And by the way, our department will continue to work with the Health and Wellness Department and Thrive! to ensure that this program and the other programs are fully supported and promoted.
As I said, there is the Learn to Swim program, which is a partnership with the Lifesaving Society of Nova Scotia to offer the Swim to Survive program targeted to Grade 3 students during the school year. It is focused on safety skills and exposes children to an aquatic environment at a young age, which is very important, especially in a province where we are surrounded by water.
The After the Bell program is $300,000. This program aims to increase physical activity in youth ages 12 to 15, with a priority to involve girls, which is key. Often young girls are left out of those programs. Research shows that 21 per cent of girls meet the daily standard of 60 minutes of moderate to vigorous physical activity. In 2014-15, 79 per cent of the 1,958 children at the After the Bell program were girls. That's a lot.
There's a Walkabout program which receives $125,000. This program provides funding to the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Nova Scotia to deliver a Walkabout program. Again, many people aren't even aware that you can help to lower or mitigate your diabetes simply by walking. Those are important things.
Just as important is the Facility Access program. This funding helps improve access to major sport and recreation facilities. I know there was somebody in your caucus - I think it was my critic - who asked about some facilities in her area. Those are some of the programs that will help promote, preserve, and showcase activity around the province. We will continue, as I said, to support them and work with them and try to raise the level of awareness of these programs through our department as well.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I'm glad you are, hopefully, as excited as I was to keep that going. It's an important program to keep going and to support.
I want to go quickly, and I only have maybe 10 minutes or so left, to Program Services, Culture and Heritage Development, the support for culture funding through the lottery. I believe it came in when I was minister, but can you remind me, is it a defined number, or is it a percentage of revenues? I know it may be on certain ticket items.
MR. INCE: It was on certain ticket items, yes.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I wonder if the minister could let me know if that is still the case. How do we get to the funding of just over $2 million?
MR. INCE: As was stated, this is all based on those ticket sales and specialty ticket items. People in the province know that when they buy those items, they are contributing directly to the culture sector.
That being said, there was an agreement of a set amount. That amount is $2 million, and that came to us this year. Now, if their ticket sales are greater, that bodes well for us because we get a bit more. If it is less, we get the agreed-upon amount, but if it is greater, we are getting more. To give you an example, this year the support for culture gave us an additional $200,000 because the ticket sales were so good.
MR. DAVID WILSON: That kind of leads me into my next question. Can the minister give me a bit of a breakdown on where those funds are spent?
MR. INCE: There are a number of programs that this money goes to support, and communities and organizations. Support4Culture is a wonderful thing. It gives communities and organizations an opportunity that, as I stated earlier, they may not have.
Some of those programs are artist in residence programs, the Artistic Innovation program, artsVest, Arts Equity Funding Initiative, the Creative Collaborations Program, the Diversity and Community Capacity Fund, the Mi'kmaq Cultural Activities Program, Heritage Development Fund, One-time Emerging Culture and Heritage Incentives Programs, and the Community Arts Councils/Artist-Run Centres Collaboration Programs. Those are some of the programs that that money goes to support.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I want to ask the minister if he's aware - and I don't know if I've asked this of you before in the past - of a piece of legislation that was passed in 2011, about Arts Nova Scotia. It was Bill No. 124. I brought it up during the Film Tax Credit change. That legislation was bought forward to show that government respects the arts community in Nova Scotia, that they recognize that they contribute immensely to the economy of our province. It was a commitment of a former government, not yours, but it is in law. It is something that passed.
It required the government to make sure, when they make changes, when they move forward on policy changes that will affect the community, that they're consulted and respected and that they are part of that decision-making. It doesn't have to be just in your department. I know the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage does this every single day; it's the other departments that might not recognize the connection that the arts and artists have in health, in justice, in economic development - in all departments, I think.
I guess my question is, one, are you aware of that legislation? Two, if you're not, can I get your commitment that you'll look at the legislation and talk with your colleagues to say that this legislation was brought forward to respect the artists in our province, so that when they make a decision in their department, they know that if this has a negative impact, then maybe we need to do consultations?
I'm just wondering if you're aware of it. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but it's something I had brought up, especially last year when we talked about the Film Tax Credit changes.
MR. INCE: Yes, I am aware of that piece of legislation. Our cultural action plan will also help us with that.
Let me back up a bit, first of all, because you've hit on something that for the last couple of years I've seen the value of, and how it is so important for us to connect and communicate with other departments. As I said in my introduction, we connect with and touch every community.
That being said, we also cross-link with many departments. When you talk about making sure that other departments are aware of the importance of the work and the value of artists and just people in general within the cultural community - that's one thing that I've been trumpeting, trying to make sure that people are aware that we don't really live in a silo, that there are many links to what we do from many departments.
That being said, we have conducted extensive cultural conversations with stakeholders and organizations and individuals right across the province. To give you an example, for our cultural action plan, we've had 14 workshops held around the province. The participants represent 188 cultural organizations that contributed. We've had discussions where wide-ranging topics include culture. We've had discussions with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, and Communications Nova Scotia on culture identity stewardships and the economy. We've had conversations with the Department of Health and Wellness. We've had conversations with the Department of Immigration. We've had conversations with the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal even. We have communicated with all the departments to share with them our views and the importance that culture has.
There have been more than 1,000 respondents to an online survey of individuals working in culture. There have been workshops, as I said. One workshop was held entirely in French, so we haven't left out that group. We also didn't leave out the African Nova Scotian group. There was a challenge trying to have consultations with them, but we finally did it, and it was fantastic. We also had one workshop that was via video conference, so when I say we are engaging and trying to reach all people, we are.
MR. DAVID WILSON: That's good; thank you for that. I know I have one minute. Just a last question on the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council, are there any vacancies on that now? I know I've seen it in the Agencies, Boards and Commissions, but are you aware if there are any vacancies, or is it just upcoming renewals of the Creative Leadership Council?
MR. INCE: There may be one vacancy right now, but no, there are no other vacancies.
MR. DAVID WILSON: It will be filled, right?
MR. INCE: Oh, most definitely.
MR. DAVID WILSON: I think I'm out of time.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have one minute.
MR. DAVID WILSON: The one thing I didn't hear you say in it was business. Throughout the last year looking back on especially the Film Tax Credit - I think that if they would have involved your department and the Creative Leadership Council and those who are intimate with the wide connection between film and television and the creative economy, potentially the government could have avoided some of the pain that we've seen in the province. I don't think anybody can say there hasn't been any, so I hope that the departments recognize the need to consult with Communities, Culture and Heritage on issues because it can contribute to our economy immensely, and it's often overlooked.
I know I spoke about it a lot when I was in government. Thank you, and I'll hand over my remaining time.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. That concludes the hour with the NDP. I suggest that we take a short five-minute break and return.
[5:38 p.m. The committee recessed.]
[5:50 p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please. The Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply shall now resume. We'll turn now to the PC caucus for up to one hour of questioning.
The honourable member for Pictou West.
MS. KARLA MACFARLANE: I think I will start off right where I left. I was in the middle of asking a question with regard to the Black Loyalist Heritage Centre, which opened in June. It's a great facility, of course, and I'm certain that you've been there. I'm wondering if perhaps you can elaborate on how it was funded.
MR. INCE: Certainly. First of all, let me tell you that there's a huge sense of pride in the African Nova Scotian community now. There's a sense of pride because we are seeing ourselves in this province's history. We're seeing our stories being told. We're being acknowledged for some of the firsts and some of the things we've contributed and helped to move forward in terms of this province.
If you don't mind, I would like to go back a bit and talk about the day that place opened. The day was a very cold, damp, miserable day. I was quite surprised to see a packed place on a day like that. It was a day that had many seniors and elderly people who sat there for hours in that cold, waiting for everything to happen and staying. There were events going on that day that gave so many people pride. I'm talking about people outside the African Nova Scotian community as well. They were all talking about how good this was.
What I saw was a province coming together to celebrate the accomplishments and a history of a part of our society where many people in our community feel they are not even valued. It gave them a sense of value and shared with them that everybody in this province values, respects and understands those histories that people have. That speaks volumes to what our province is doing to the movement and the direction that we are moving in. I am so proud of that.
Now, to get to the funding, that particular project received $375,000 from the province, and it helped leverage other monies, like from the feds. Communities stepped up in a huge way. A community group raised - I can't remember the amount, but it was over $5 million, which was quite a bit for a community group to raise.
MS. MACFARLANE: So the province invested $375,000 originally.
MR. INCE: That's operational fundings.
MS. MACFARLANE: What other investments have you made with them? Are there any other financial investments? Are they in the budget this year?
MR. INCE: Yes, because they are a part of our system now. When you said 27 - that's the 28 museums.
MS. MACFARLANE: Right. What I'm asking about, though - was the $375,000 a one-time investment?
MR. INCE: No, that's the annual operating.
MS. MACFARLANE: That is the annual. Okay.
MR. INCE: The $375,000 is their annual operating.
MS. MACFARLANE: How many people do they employ?
MR. INCE: I'll get those figures because I can't recall right off the top of my head now how much was invested. I don't want to throw out any numbers if I'm not accurate.
MS. MACFARLANE: Your department, being new, is very exciting. It definitely brings a sense of belonging for the community, and I'm really happy to see that it is doing well, from what I hear. It certainly is a worthwhile investment for our province to assist in. I'm just wondering, though, if you have any numbers on how many people actually visited and what type of revenue was generated.
MR. INCE: Bear with me one moment. To give you an idea, visitation was 9,900 people. That's fantastic, given that it was open such a short time. It actually has inspired and encouraged many people south of the border to come up and take a look at it, especially African American groups that have heard about it. I can tell you that I've heard from people from San Francisco, L.A., and places like that who heard about it.
Actually, there was one gentleman who ran his radio show from there, which was really great. He was reporting on all the information. His radio show reaches worldwide audiences. He interviewed me on the show, and Americans and even people across the water were blown away and surprised at this history that they were not aware of.
This is fantastic. We also had the opportunity during that same period of time, to hold, for the first time ever in Canada's history, the Black Government Leaders Summit in the same place. Again, here are African Canadians from around the country, and most of them were not aware of the breadth of culture that we have here. Nor were they aware of the firsts that came out of this province. I speak of the firsts relating to the African Nova Scotian community. This was wonderful.
MS. MACFARLANE: Yes, absolutely wonderful. Once again, do we know the revenue that was generated in their first year?
MR. INCE: No, not at the moment, but we can get those figures for you.
MS. MACFARLANE: Do you guys normally ask for those figures before you disburse any monies to them?
MR. INCE: Yes. It's all part of the reporting. In order for them to be able to move forward, like any office or any government or any business, we need to assess this particular portion of the business to see how well they're doing, if you need to make changes, if you need to bump things up, or whatever. So yes, we do.
MS. MACFARLANE: Usually that process happens once a year, that you receive information that will determine whether or not you will continue making the investment.
MR. INCE: One thing that you may not be aware of, or you may be, is that they are a part of our museum system now. They are included in that family. They are, so they will continue to get funding on an annual basis.
MS. MACFARLANE: I'm going to move now to the Marine Heritage Study. We know that the study was launched back in October 2014, and the goal of the project was to chart a new course for marine heritage management and development. The study was to determine what is required to support a marine archaeology program and strategies that would protect underwater resources. Can you give me an update on that?
MR. INCE: What most people aren't aware of is that archaeology, and the study, is a very complex science. It's a science that we need to take time to get right because you're dealing with some precious items. That particular study is one that we engaged in with Saint Mary's University. We are reviewing the recommendations that they've put forward, that they have provided. We will assist on those and look at next steps.
MS. MACFARLANE: There was a press release, though, that indicated it would be complete in 2015. Was it not completed?
MR. INCE: The study was complete, but we're looking at the outcomes, looking at the recommendations, and looking at the next steps. That's where we are now.
MS. MACFARLANE: Is there anything that you can report on what you're finding from that report?
MR. INCE: I won't be able to report it today, but I can get you some information, yes.
MS. MACFARLANE: So it is completed. Your department is reviewing it. Have you personally met with the gentleman - was it Mr. Kyte?
MR. INCE: No, I have not.
MS. MACFARLANE: You have not met with him personally. How much money did he receive from your department to conduct this project?
MR. INCE: I'll have to get back to you on that.
MS. MACFARLANE: Are you aware of the consultations that he made with other Nova Scotians? Or was it mostly just with staff at Saint Mary's? Do you know if he partnered with any other experts or scientists within the province?
MR. INCE: I believe he did. Some of the information around that particular issue, I don't have readily right here, so we'll have to get back to you on that.
MS. MACFARLANE: Do you know when it will actually be released publicly?
MR. INCE: I cannot answer that.
MS. MACFARLANE: A ballpark figure?
MR. INCE: No, I can't even give you a ballpark, because again I don't have all those details around that particular issue, so I'll have to get back to you on it.
MS. MACFARLANE: This was a project that was launched in 2014. It was passed on to you in 2015. Would it be fair to say that you hope to have it presented to the public in 2016?
MR. INCE: I'm just pausing for a minute because I'm trying to think. It was in late 2014, I think, that all of this started to unfold.
MS. MACFARLANE: October 2014.
MR. INCE: Yes. I would suggest, as I started explaining earlier, that I don't want to put a time on this because I don't have all the details. I do know that it has to be done right. If you look at the complexities around heritage, underwater, and all those things - it's very, very complex. It's not something that can be unfolded in a very short period of time, like within 12 months, because there are so many other variables that will come into this that will cause you to go back and look at it and make changes.
It is a science. We're dealing with the environment, we're dealing with the sea bed, we're dealing with all kinds of things that affect the way you try to recover and pull up artifacts that, in some cases, are 300 or 400 years old.
MS. MACFARLANE: I certainly can appreciate that, and I thank you for that. But at this point we still do not know what the financial investment was from your department to Mr. Kyte.
MR. INCE: I have that amount, and that was $20,000 paid to SMU.
MS. MACFARLANE: Thank you for that clarification. With regard to archeology, are there any specific areas right now in Nova Scotia that you are funding for any type of projects? In particular - you may be able to provide a few details here - is there an ongoing archeology study right now in the Canso area, under your department?
MR. INCE: Again, unfortunately, I don't know. We will have to look and get those details.
MS. MACFARLANE: I know Newfoundland and Labrador has recently invested a large amount of money in archeology. Are there any initiatives that we are taking through your department to promote further projects and discoveries, such as Oak Island and Canso? I know there's a number of areas of interest to archeologists, and I'm just wondering if there's any initiative through your department that you may be looking at to supply financial means for them to conduct these projects.
MR. INCE: It's difficult to answer that question right now. What I will say is that we really value our heritage and built heritage. We have made some current arrangements and changes to our Heritage Property Act. Our main goal is to preserve, protect, and promote our built heritage. That being said, I have staff members who live, breathe, and eat this stuff daily. They are really passionate, and from what I've heard from the Advisory Council on Heritage Property and many people in the community who are involved in heritage, the staff members are unprecedented in terms of what they do, where they go, and what they step up to do for all those organizations.
Museums are involved in archeology. I would say that this is something that is ongoing. To give you the best example, recently there was a development just down the street that was being done in a church. They've uncovered some bones and a gravesite that they believe is Aboriginal - most definitely. When you talk about archeology and projects and things like that, often some of that comes up unexpectedly because they've uncovered something when they are developing or when they are trying to build something or clear land.
To give you another example - in Preston or even in Timberlea or in my colleague's riding, in Beechville and Pockwock, there are areas where African Nova Scotians have lived and they're now discovering grave sites and so on. When development is happening, we have to stop everything once something has been discovered. To speak about specific projects, I can't tell you.
MS. MACFARLANE: Sure, and I realize there are many ongoing projects through museums throughout the province. I was specifically more interested in whether there were any larger projects you were investing in, but that's fine. Thank you for those answers.
I'm going to move on to public libraries. I noticed that, in this budget, there was definitely no increase for public libraries. I believe it has been at least seven years since an increase. I'm just wondering perhaps if you could elaborate on why there isn't an increase, considering how valuable our libraries are to our communities.
MR. INCE: You have said, and I have said on many occasions - and you've heard me say it - how valuable our public libraries are. I personally used to use them all the time in my previous job. It was a place that young people enjoyed. When I was in there, I used to see lots of seniors and people in there using it.
The one thing that I found quite interesting was that libraries have changed, and we've all seen that now over the past 15 to 20 years. You no longer have to whisper to each other and all that stuff. That is huge. They have become huge hubs for seniors, for immigrants, for young people, for the elderly, and for teens. I can go on.
But the one thing I won't do is I won't apologize for the significant investment that we provide to libraries: $14.4 million. This is a complement to what municipalities and other funders provide as well as the contributions raised by library boards. I have been quite sympathetic to the challenges that libraries are facing.
Let me tell you something: two years ago, we provided a small increase to libraries, in 2014-15. For them to say they haven't had any funding is not entirely true. Two years ago, our department gave a small increase of $200,000 to alleviate some of their pressures, at a time when the government was pulling back in every area.
MS. MACFARLANE: So you're indicating that your department has given them an increase? I have a letter from the Pictou-Antigonish . . .
MR. INCE: It wasn't an increase; it was just one time. Sorry.
MS. MACFARLANE: So I have a letter from the Pictou-Antigonish Regional Library indicating that they have not received any increase for seven years. However, the Liberal Party did meet them while they were campaigning and promised the library board that they would work with them and create a sustainable future with them.
They feel like they've been abandoned with regard to receiving help. In fact, two weeks ago, I went to a county meeting of the Municipality of Pictou County, and there was a presentation there looking for funding from the municipality to help them. So obviously, they're in need of financial help.
I'm just wondering why there has been no increase when back in 2013 while the party was campaigning, they promised that they would ensure there was a sustainable future for them. What we're seeing now is, once again, the issue being downloaded on to the municipality. I'm just wondering what message you would have me relay back to my libraries in Pictou County.
MR. INCE: The first message I would ask you to relay is: Remember, we are working with you. We continue to work with you. We have worked with you.
Let me back up a bit. When I first got elected, in the very first meeting I had was with library boards - the very first meeting - they shared their concerns. They shared the fact that they've been in a tough spot. They've been challenged with the current models and the way everything has been delivered to them. They looked at me and asked, will you review this?
Based on their recommendation, on their ask, we put together a library-funding review committee. That committee consisted of the library boards. It consisted of municipal partners. It consisted of stakeholders. They then took that information, and they did their review. When their review was completed, they delivered that to me. I then said, take this information back to the boards, the committee, and get their feedback. That feedback is coming in, and has come in, and we're just finishing that feedback.
I'm a little perplexed by the fact that there's all this talk that we're not working with them, we're not helping them. As I've said, at a time when the government was cutting back, we provided one-time to help to the Pictou-Antigonish area to relieve their pressure, $200,000. I don't know what more I can do.
MS. MACFARLANE: What amount did Pictou-Antigonish Regional Library receive of that one-time money that you gave?
MR. INCE: I don't know exactly how it was distributed.
MS. MACFARLANE: To my point. I believe this letter is correct then, that they have not received - as they have stated - any help in seven years. So when you say that over $200,000 from your department was disbursed to help libraries, was there any amount out of that dollar figure that was given to the Pictou-Antigonish Regional Libraries?
MR. INCE: As I've said, that $200,000 was distributed for that area, not all libraries. You are misconstruing it. I didn't say all libraries. I said that particular area.
MS. MACFARLANE: I'm not misconstruing, I'm simply asking if you have a breakdown of what libraries in Pictou-Antigonish received funding.
MR. INCE: I will get that information for you.
MS. MACFARLANE: Thank you.
MR. INCE: Now also, you have to be aware that not only do libraries get that continued, sustained funding from me, $14.4 million, plus what they get from municipalities and everyone else, they also have the . . .
MS. MACFARLANE: I realize the breakdown is about 70 per cent from the province, 20-some per cent from the municipalities, and then their boards have to make up the 6 to 7 per cent in fundraising. It used to be that they only had to raise about 3 to 4 per cent, but now with the cutbacks every year from the provincial government, they've had to increase funding from their board.
I will anxiously wait to see what that breakdown was from that one-time funding that you helped the libraries with. But according to the individuals that I am speaking with in the Pictou-Antigonish Regional Library, their indication is that they have not received any.
MR. INCE: Again, I hear you, and I hear their concerns. I'd have to tell you that CCH also provided financial support to assist the libraries in Pictou-Antigonish with creating interactive cultural spaces for residents, and the amount was $3,500. (Interruption)
Just let me finish here because you are saying they don't receive any. There is a vested $54,000 in the Pictou-Antigonish Regional Library Board to support the efforts in hosting the CAP site.
MS. MACFARLANE: And when was that given, the $54,000?
MR. INCE: Last year. The Pictou Library also received $30,000 from CCH to provide support to the Pictou-Antigonish Regional Library Board to undertake feasibility assessments on the relocation of the Pictou Library with the deCoste Centre.
MS. MACFARLANE: Yes. That is not annual funding for operating. These are special projects that you have funded. It's not for operations.
I will move on, though. I would like to discuss what plans are being made for the Black Battalion in Pictou this summer. I know it's a big event, and we always love having you there. I'm just wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on the plans. As we know, it's a special year, and we're looking forward to having you there. So I'm hoping you can give us an update on those plans.
MR. INCE: What I can say is that there are a couple of groups that are making plans for that. There is a lot of excitement. There's hope that they can get some big name people here. I can't speak to who, but there's hope that they can bring some big name people. I know that many of the communities around the province are looking forward to this and to participating in the event.
Also, one of the other plans that I can speak to you about is that the Royal International Tattoo is going to have their special this year on the No. 2 Construction Battalion. They've put a call out to all the communities to try to get people involved and participating in that event because they're going to need lots of extras and lots of people to play the roles. It's huge. Those are some of the things that are going to be happening during that particular time. There will be an event down in Pictou, and there will be an event here in Halifax. I'm looking forward to it. I think it's going to be very exciting.
MS. MACFARLANE: It will be, and we're looking forward to having you. I do have a number of colleagues who intend to ask a few questions too. I have one more, and then I will turn it over to my colleague.
With regard to cadets, there's a number of cadets throughout the whole province who will be attending the 100th Anniversary of Vimy Ridge. They are struggling to find funds to go. Through the extra money that you have received for Canada 150, I'm just wondering if there are any programs out there that you suggest we tap into, to help these young boys and girls ensure they can make it to this very worthy event?
MR. INCE: First of all, let me share with you that we're talking two separate things. Canada 150 is a separate event altogether, and the details around the applications and when that can be will be coming shortly. As you can appreciate, I don't have all the details around that.
MS. MACFARLANE: I understood that there might be some funding through that that would help these cadets. But if you are able to find out that information for me so that we can apply . . .
MR. INCE: The minute I get some of that information, I'll definitely share it.
Again, I would probably lean to this, because you mentioned the cadets and you mentioned Canada 150 again. If what they are doing is an event that highlights participation and what Canada 150 is looking for, then there might be a possibility for them, I don't know. But if it's to do a trip or something like that, there's no money for that. It's infrastructure money to help build, to help do a number of things with communities.
That said, they could probably check with my department and look at some of the programs and check with my staff to see if there's anything that lines up with what they're trying to do.
MS. MACFARLANE: Okay, great, thank you so much. I will turn it over to my colleague.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Pictou Centre, with about 28 minutes remaining.
HON. PAT DUNN: I want to thank the minister and the minister's staff for being here and answering these questions. I won't take too much of your time. I had three areas: museum status, regional libraries, and the No. 2 Construction Battalion. My colleague touched on two of them. I may touch on them just a little bit, so I will be reasonably quick - for two other reasons too. Your staff is probably waiting for you to take them all out to supper after this long day. Plus, if you look outside, it's snowing. Just a couple of days ago, I took the shovel out of my trunk, so I want to make sure I can get home tonight.
Anyway, going back to the No. 2 Construction Battalion celebrations this year, I've had the opportunity to talk to a lot of constituents in my area of New Glasgow. They are very excited about it. Can you give me an update on any types or particular amounts of funding that may occur from your department with regard to that celebration?
MR. INCE: We will get back to you on the amount of funding that might have been put into that program from our department.
MR. DUNN: There's a follow-up question to that too. Will you be going to some other departments to help out in that celebration as far as the organization of it and the funding of it also?
MR. INCE: Again, I will check this to confirm it, but I do believe that our department has connected with a few other departments. I will double check that.
MR. DUNN: I'm just going to ask a couple of questions dealing with museum status. If an organization wishes to apply for museum status in the province, what is the process or part of the process?
MR. INCE: Yes, you're talking about CMAP, which is the Community Museum Assistance Program, and the way that program is set up. We are having conversations with staff. We're looking at this particular program and seeing how we can help to improve it and move it along to bring it to more up-to-date standards, I guess I would say.
MR. DUNN: Would it be safe to say that if you go across the province and look at all the museums, perhaps some of them maybe shouldn't have the status, while there's others that may not have it that should have it? Is that a possibility?
MR. INCE: You know what? I wouldn't say that because museums - especially those community museums - were founded and put together by those communities. Those communities see the story they're telling as very relevant, so it wouldn't be for me to say that it's not that relevant. The question I would ask is, how does it connect to what we're trying to say as a province and our history?
MR. DUNN: Okay, if I were to ask you in a different way, could there be museums in Nova Scotia that do not meet the criteria that's presently available for status?
MR. INCE: Again, I'm not going to comment on a community's museum. I can't go to somebody and say, your story is not relevant. That being said, we are working with the Association of Nova Scotia Museums to improve the museum standards.
MR. DUNN: If an organization in the past applied for museum status and did not receive a positive response, what are the chances of them being successful again down the road if they were to reapply?
MR. INCE: We've got community museums. When we put the monies out, or when we allocate the monies for funding those museums, we've only got a certain pot. That pot is set there. I think this is where you might be going. As you said, there's a pot set there, and if that group doesn't qualify or get that money, will they have the opportunity next time? I'm not sure. They can reapply, can't they? (Interruption)
My bad. Let me back up. The funds that are within that program are within it. There is no more money going into it. What we're doing, as I've said earlier, is looking at those standards and reapplying them and reviewing those standards because in the past there were questions that you raised. Myself, I've spoken to organizations and groups that had raised the same concern: we have applied, but we couldn't get in; how can we get in?
At that point, our department has decided to look at those standards with the museum boards to re-evaluate and to make it more equitable for others.
MR. DUNN: So this year and next year, the funds that are available now will be the same?
MR. INCE: I would say this year. I can't speak to next year, in the future, because again, we're having those conversations with the museum boards and reviewing everything, the standards.
MR. DUNN: Therefore, if an organization were to reapply or apply for the first time, and there's no more funding, then the chances are that the answer is not going to be a positive one, unless you take that funding, and you decrease the amount going to the museums that are receiving it now, which is usually not likely. Maybe I'll get you to comment on that.
My question again is, there's so much money, there's so much funding, and it's already being sent out to all your museums. Let's say I am the curator of a museum, and I would love to have museum status, and I need some funding. The chances of me getting any funding, because of the current status, doesn't sound like it's great.
MR. INCE: That's correct, currently. I anticipate that we'll have an opportunity to review those standards and hopefully be able to address some of these concerns that you are raising. But currently you are correct.
MR. DUNN: I'm going to finish off with a couple of questions dealing with regional libraries, which my colleague just talked about a few minutes ago. I know you mentioned the $14.4 million that you've given to regional libraries. But I feel that what's happening in some areas of the province, in particular the area I'm from, which is New Glasgow, is that they are maxing out the community. What I mean by that is they are fundraising, they are going to community groups, municipalities are putting in their share, and so on. To me, they're wearing out the welcome mat.
It just seems that they are at the point now where they may have to lay off people. They may have to close an extra day. They may have to shorten their hours. Potentially part-time workers could lose some benefits. It's my understanding that if there was an additional $500,000 over the next three years, that would keep not just that area but all the regional libraries in the province afloat, out of trouble, or whatever you want to call it. Again, I'm talking about additional dollars in the base funding. We all know how valuable they are in the province, and I'm not even going to go down a litany of reasons why because we all know.
Again it's three areas that I've talked to. They seem to be in a situation where some of them say that through attrition they have lost some employees, and they didn't replace them, so that's helping to balance things. I know from dropping in and visiting the Antigonish-Pictou Regional Library that they comb through things fairly thoroughly, looking at their budget. I personally think they are doing a pretty good job. They don't waste money. They don't squander anything.
Again, when I think of the amount of money they think they could get by with over the next three years in a $10 million budget, it seems to be a very tiny amount that would keep them running their programs, running their libraries and so on. I guess you may want to comment on that.
MR. INCE: As I've said earlier, I really empathize and appreciate their concerns. That being said, what amazes me is we have provided, like I said, and continued with no reduction. Although there is no increase, there is no reduction - $14.4 million.
Again, when I use that number, I don't use it lightly because that's a huge number. It is also a number that is complemented by others. You yourself mentioned the communities, the municipalities, and so on.
Let me also share that many of those libraries have opportunities on top of all the things that I had mentioned. You weren't here earlier, but let me just share with you. In Pictou-Antigonish, we provided financial support of $3,500. In Pictou-Antigonish, CCH invested $54,000 in the regional library board to support their efforts to hosting the CAP sites.
The Pictou Library received another $30,000 provided to support the Pictou-Antigonish Regional Library Board to undertake a feasibility assessment on the relocation of the Pictou Library to the deCoste Centre. Those are on top of the fact that there are other opportunities for them to access maybe specific funding through my department. They have many opportunities.
Now let's not forget - with the request and the demand and their concern that we aren't going to support them - that we've stepped up. They've asked us to do a review. The review has been done. We've engaged the library boards themselves. We've been open and transparent with all the library boards. We've shared with them where we want to go. We've heard from them, and we've taken all that information.
Now this is important. Once that information came back to me, we didn't act on it. We said okay, this information that everybody has shared with us, take it back to the boards, share it with them and let them know the results of this library funding review that you came up with. That was shared with all stakeholders and boards. We have to understand that we need to take this and do it correctly, do it right.
Give us a chance to review the recommendations. We are still in conversations with the library boards and stakeholders and all who are involved. We are still having those conversations with them. I'm a little perplexed that everybody is saying 'this is what's happened', when we're still having ongoing conversations. We're still working through the process. We have to slow down and take the time and allow this process to work. We are hearing everybody; we're not doing this in a silo. I can't be any more transparent. We are doing it with them. They need to allow us to work with them instead of putting up roadblocks.
MR. DUNN: I have just a couple of quick comments before I go to my friend from the beautiful area of Inverness. One is, there's been a few government-sanctioned reports out in the past that clearly stated that the libraries are underfunded. That's one statement.
The second one is, in a previous conversation with my colleague from Pictou West, I thought there may have been something said, or there was an indication, that some of the regional libraries are not working with you, specifically in Antigonish. In any meetings I have, they have never said that. They have said the opposite. They've said they are working with us, and they're trying to do what they can do. We still have our problems, but at no time did they ever even hint at that.
I want to thank you for your answers. I'm going to pass it over to my colleague from Inverness.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Inverness, with nine minutes remaining.
MR. ALLAN MACMASTER: We'll make it count, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Minister, I was looking at the budget, and I do see that the Gaelic Affairs office is going down again. I was disappointed to see that. I just wanted to make a few comments on that.
I think there's kind of a feeling in the Gaelic community that they're lucky to still be around. I know that there still is an Office of Gaelic Affairs, but I know there's also probably a sense out there of, why are we even doing this? I hear those comments myself - certainly not from your office by any means.
When I look at the history of the province, at one time, 80 per cent of the population spoke Gaelic. I've seen that figure. I don't know if that's true or not, but that would be around the early 1800s. There was a mass immigration from Scotland at that time. There was a real culture, a real Gaelic identity in the province at one time. It's very much a minority today, this group. There were things like penal laws. Until I think it was 1823, when those penal laws were appealed, somebody like myself couldn't even sit in the Legislature. So it's certainly a group that is maybe often not seen as a minority, but it certainly has a history of its own identity.
I don't think some people really see that today. You hear them making comments, or you see it on the Internet or whatever - why are we supporting this? I think a lot of it is about education. I think a big part of culture is education and a role for government to help to educate people.
The education system 100 years ago was quite responsible for getting rid of Gaelic in the province. Students went to school - there was a teacher who wasn't from the area who came in who wanted nothing to do with Gaelic, probably brought with him a mindset that wasn't very favourable to Gaelic or the culture. There was a gentleman I talked to when I was doing a project at university - he has long since passed now - and I remember him telling me his experience in school when he spoke Gaelic. He was actually struck for speaking Gaelic.
You can see how negative things were - and even from the province itself. We're left with a small population of speakers today, and that can bring its own challenges as well because you have small groups that might like to try to maintain ownership of what's left. That is not always positive.
Here is another reason why I think Gaelic is important for government to invest in it. When I was visiting Scotland years ago, I was at a library one day doing some research, and the librarian was talking to me. He was interested in why I was there. He said, whatever you do, don't let your culture become as plastic as ours has here. I thought, wow. Of course, if you go to Scotland, if you go to Edinburgh, you can walk the Royal Mile. It's a beautiful street. It's very historic looking. But once you start to learn about the culture, you start to realize that a lot of what is on display is kind of plastic, and it has gotten away. I guess it's like anything. It becomes a commodity in that sense. I think the investment in this office is important.
I should ask a question. We're running out of time here, but I wanted to make those points. I think Budget Estimates is a good time to do it because I know the staff is here and I'm the critic for this office. My question is, are the internal office capabilities being maximized?
I think of one example. I think it was Finlay MacLeod who was brought over to teach instructors Gaelic. I met him on my trip to Scotland, too, and that's 20 years ago. He has a lot of passion and is certainly very qualified to be brought here to do that. I know that there's a lot of capability within the office itself. I guess my question is, are we using the capabilities of the people in the office as best we can?
MR. INCE: First of all, let me back up and respond by saying this. I went to Highland Village a year ago. I didn't know much about the Gaelic culture before. I knew of Gaels. I learned about it in school, and even at Saint F.X., as a teacher, an educator. They have a program where they make you aware, provide information and provide a bit of history, give you an awareness of the Gaelic culture and a bit of that history.
I went to Highland Village. It was a cold day, but it was a wonderful day. I got to experience and see the lives of people in a period. You walk in there, and it's amazing. I had never seen that before. That was beautiful. I got to sit at the table, sing songs and do the - what do you call it?
MR. MACMASTER: Milling.
MR. INCE: Milling, yes. I got right into it. That said, I have also had the opportunity to visit the Gaelic College. Wonderful work is being done there. I was blown away again by the capacity, the ability and the passion to keep, preserve and save the language and the culture and, at the same time, build an institution that is there to educate, to uplift, to give pride, to give that sense. That's wonderful. In many cases, I'm a bit jealous as an African Nova Scotian because we don't have that, but we have a lot of other positives too.
We also have to realize that this province does appreciate and respect and value the Gaelic culture. Otherwise it wouldn't have an Office of Gaelic Affairs. We are going to be celebrating Gaelic Awareness Month coming up, and it is very important to our culture.
When you talk about the office, what you are looking at in this budget document is not an additional cut. What you are seeing is the result of all the cuts and the changes that were made last year, represented this year on the paper. So things are still the same. Over the past year, any of those changes that they've had to deal with, they've been able to manage and deal with, and deliver the services have not changed.
MR. MACMASTER: We're really almost out of time here. I'm going to ask one quick question about festivals and events funding. Is that still available through the regional tourism associations, or is that something that has been eliminated? I've heard (Interruption) Go ahead.
MR. INCE: Sorry; I didn't mean to cut you off. Actually, that was transferred to our department. If you've got folks who are looking to get into that, tell them to call our office or go to the website and apply. Hopefully, they'll be lucky enough to get it.
MR. MACMASTER: If I have a few seconds, Mr. Chairman?
MR. CHAIRMAN: A few seconds.
MR. MACMASTER: Recreation facility development funding - I think that falls under the department as well. How does the amount budget for this year compare with last year?
MR. INCE: That is status quo. That remains the same. The only thing that's changed is the department where it all is now.
MR. MACMASTER: Excellent. Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That concludes the time for the PC caucus. We'll now move to the Liberal caucus.
The honourable member for Hammonds Plains-Lucasville.
MR. BEN JESSOME: I just wanted to start by saying thank you to the minister for your presence in Hammonds Plains-Lucasville over the past couple of years and the support of your staff in being there. I don't know whether there's a little bias over there towards Hammonds Plains-Lucasville - a little bit? A little bit. No.
I did want to start by highlighting that because I know that the Lucasville community certainly appreciated you coming out - I believe it was last year - to talk a little bit about how CCH can support their group in highlighting their history and their culture. It made for a great opportunity to make that easier to understand and help connect them with individuals who could help them along in terms of highlighting their background and the culture that exists in Lucasville. Additionally, thank you for your presence at the Madeline Symonds Middle School African Heritage Month celebration. I still get people talking to me about that and saying how much they appreciated you coming out and spending some time with our community and certainly your musical talents.
I guess I'll start on that note. It seems to me, and I can't really pinpoint it, that there was increased enthusiasm around African Heritage Month this year. I don't know whether it's being in government that kind of adds a level of acknowledgement of that celebration or those types of celebrations. I'm wondering if you can highlight whether there was additional emphasis put on celebrating African Heritage Month in Nova Scotia this year and, if so, maybe expand a little bit on what the department did to ensure that African Nova Scotian heritage was celebrated throughout our province.
MR. INCE: First of all, I had somebody jokingly say to me the other day, one of the questions I want to ask you is, why is African Heritage Month so important? You know what? Jokingly, I said to him, that's not a joke. Actually that's a really serious question. That's a question that I've had young people ask me because people truly aren't aware of the significance and why it is so important. Most people see it just as a celebration. It's more than just a celebration. It is a time when we are given an opportunity to share our history and the accomplishments that people within the African Nova Scotian community have had an opportunity to contribute not only to society as a whole but also to people in general as a community.
I believe we all know that a sense of pride and shared heritage goes a long way in building and creating a community, a group of people who feel valued and feel like they can participate in society and give. That's what African Heritage Month does. It provides us a venue, if I can use that term, to speak of the contributions we've made. It gives us a venue to share those histories because our history isn't only our history. It's a shared history. It's combined with the Mi'kmaq, it's combined with the French, it's combined with the English, and it's combined with the Asian. I can go on and on. Our histories are all intertwined in some way. Yes, there is uniqueness, but we are all intertwined.
African Heritage Month or Black History Month, or however you want to name it, has grown over the past couple of years. I would say that is primarily due to the Office of African Nova Scotian Affairs. I'm running around the province telling everybody, toot your horn, boast and brag, and I'm one who is not very comfortable at doing that. But I will take this opportunity to say that I believe that the increased awareness and the increased events and celebrations around African Heritage Month are as a result of what Communities, Culture and Heritage and the Office of African Nova Scotian Affairs have been doing over the last couple of years to promote the awareness of that time.
We have stepped up. To give you an example, over the last number of years I think I've been to over 200 events around African Heritage Month. That's quite a bit. I've been into regions around the province that looked at me and said, we're happy you're here because you are the first minister we've seen. I'm like, what? I'm shocked by that. African Heritage Month, regardless of who the minister was - we can go back to the PC Party. They helped and did a lot. But I'll to say this right here, within the community, they were a little concerned because the minister wasn't from the community. That being said, he got out. He got out into the communities, and he did a lot of work but not to the degree that I've been out there. If he had, I wouldn't be having communities telling me, you're the first minister I've seen. They take a lot of pride in that.
Let me also share with you that I think African Heritage Month this year was really valued. My colleague Stephen Gough and I got a call from the Prime Minister. For the first time in Canada's history, the Prime Minister asked to sit down with representatives from the African Canadian community to talk on a high level and ask us point blank, how do we engage the community? How do we work? What are the processes? Let's use this time to sit down and engage and deal with that. That was amazing. He showed us that he hears us, and he understands. He even said, your voice is rarely heard up here. So there is acknowledgement of that. It is because of African Heritage Month.
I would suggest it's also because last year - and I mentioned it earlier - was the first ever Black Government Leaders Summit. For the first time in our lives, we have critical mass, 13 people - ha ha, critical mass, but anyway - who could sit down and now address issues so that we can try to deal with the issues that face this community. If it was truly representative of the population, we'd have 30 people, not 13, so we've got a long way to go.
African Heritage Month goes a long way in inspiring young people and people in the community who may not have thought of getting involved politically and other things. We'll offer that option to them. I can go on and on and on about all the benefits that African Heritage Month will provide to the community - not only our community but all of us. I've seen it. Down at Birchtown, many people who weren't from my community came up to me and said how proud they were of this history, how they were shocked and didn't know all this history. I've seen people weeping because they were so proud of what they saw. These were people not from my community, so to speak, culturally. They are my community because we're all Nova Scotian. Let me tell you, I'm incredibly proud of that.
MR. JESSOME: I do want to acknowledge the demanding schedule that you must have, having heard about all of those trips around the province, and certainly also acknowledge the work that you did in Ottawa. Actually, I filled in for an event at the Black Educators Association while you were gone. I do want to acknowledge the work that you were doing in Ottawa with our colleague from Upper Sackville and how wonderful it is for a Prime Minister to be acknowledging the importance of engaging African Canadians throughout this country.
I'm going to shift gears a little bit. I've had a couple of meetings in my constituency office and a number of conversations around the riding with employees, staff members, from the Department of Health and Wellness who have been discussing the rumour around the responsibilities at Health and Wellness being transferred outside the department and, after the change was made, quite frankly, the positive reinforcement for the change that took place. They basically endorsed the change and said that they were really happy to see that the responsibilities that were formerly at the Department of Health and Wellness were transferred to CCH and how being in CCH could potentially expand their capacity to build stronger communities. I'm just wondering - and I'm not sure whether I missed it before I came in - if you can expand just generally on the rationale for the change and what types of services and responsibilities would have been transferred, as well as what your department is doing to accept that responsibility at CCH.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Honourable Minister of Communities, Culture and Heritage, we have about 10 minutes before a couple of minutes to wrap up and make your motion.
MR. INCE: I've just realized I mentioned another colleague, so I do apologize.
Government recognizes the role that sport and recreation play in building stronger communities, as you had alluded to. But also, I think they realize the natural alignment from that department to our department. We have created a new team, as I've mentioned earlier, which is called Communities, Sport, and Recreation. I would say we are very excited as well about this transition.
Most of the people in our department of Communities, Culture and Heritage work closely with community organizations and community groups. I understand, from the transition and what's happened with the other department, that they do very much the same thing. That, to me, is a natural synergy. When you've got two departments that essentially do the same thing and can deliver and promote, support, and boost those communities, there is a natural connection and fit there. As you said, I've also heard from people who were in that department mentioning that they were quite excited and looking forward to the future in our department.
That community capacity, as I said my remarks - first of all, let me go back a bit. Stronger communities will help our economy grow. Those stronger communities will help foster innovation. Those stronger communities will help to promote entrepreneurship. Those stronger communities will help us to grow this province. Also, they will help to bring in those visitors, those people who want to see what it is that's going on in this province.
Many people may have heard of what we provide culturally. Until they get here and experience it, they have no idea; that's the same with any place. But I've heard from many people that when they move here for work or for whatever, the reason they chose this province - and I'm using the operative word "chose" because they can choose to go anywhere - is because of the culture, because of the people, and because of the way we are.
There's so much - I'm going to be standing on a soapbox - that I could trumpet and brag about in our province, from immigration to education, to the changes in community services. I'm going to go on and on because this all weaves with my department. Anything that they are doing there is an element of what Communities, Culture and Heritage does within their portfolio. You have to include us because we can engage. We can get to the people. We can talk to them on a level when it comes to culture that I don't think anybody else can because we understand more of what they're trying to convey to us. If you have those two partnerships together, I think there's only one direction for us, and that's up and forward.
MR. JESSOME: A point of clarification on a particular funding program. The Community Recreation Capital Grant - is that something that now falls under the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage? Is that the same thing as the Community Facilities Improvement fund, or are they two different things?
MR. INCE: Is this the Recreation Facility Development Grant that you are talking about?
MR. JESSOME: There's a program that was with the Department of Health and Wellness called the Community Recreation Capital Grant program. I'm wondering if that varies or is that different from what is the Community Facilities Improvement fund?
MR. INCE: Yes, it is. There is a difference. First of all, let me read it to you: "The [Community Recreational Capital Grant] program assists in the development of small scale indoor and outdoor capital recreation projects, less than $20,000." That's to conserve existing community recreation facilities, i.e. replacing the roof or the furnace. So there are similarities, but it is different because it deals with recreation.
MR. JESSOME: Minister, would you expand just briefly on what the Community Facilities Improvement Program is?
MR. INCE: The Community Facilities Improvement Program is a $1-million program. It invests in community projects for not-for-profit community organizations. If you've got a community organization that is looking for that, projects can be funded up to a maximum of $50,000, no more than that. As I said, the program helps to develop and expand existing community facilities which are operated by not-for-profits. Remember that: it's for not-for-profits to improve the functionality of the existing community facilities. Again, that's roofs, fridges, kitchens, furnaces, any of those things.
MR. JESSOME: Septic tanks maybe? I ask that question because the Hammonds Plains Community Centre is endeavouring to expand their kitchen, and part of that involves a more extensive upgrade to their septic facilities and whatnot. I know that that could potentially be something that the kind of hub of my community could reach out to your department about and pursue. We'll do that when the time comes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We're quickly wrapping up with our time. We have a couple of minutes left, minister, if you would like to make some final comments and put your resolutions forward for the committee.
MR. INCE: Thank you all for asking me questions. Thank you for inquiring about the good work that Communities, Culture and Heritage does. Thank you for asking pointed questions about communities around the province that receive support to help strengthen and grow those communities. Thank you for asking questions about how Nova Scotians, through the creative sector - libraries, museums, publishers, artists, performers, dancers, and musicians - get support from Communities, Culture and Heritage.
We don't take this lightly. The people in my department are very passionate. With that, I want to thank them for the hard work that they do on behalf of the people of the province. They put in a lot of long hours. When I'm out there to those organizations and events, they tend to be out there, too. Not only do they do their nine to five; they do the extra hours as well.
The other thing I want to do, one last thing quickly, is to ask all of you to really plug and get out there to push the public consultations for the Culture Action Plan. Please, have your folks, your communities, and your organizations get involved in that because we need their input if we really are looking at moving this province forward from a cultural perspective.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E3 stand?
The resolution stands.
Resolution E27 - Resolved that a sum not exceeding $2,500,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Nova Scotia Home for Colored Children Restorative Inquiry, pursuant to the Estimate.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E27 carry?
The resolution is carried.
That concludes our meeting today.
[The subcommittee adjourned at 7:16 p.m.]
