HALIFAX, FRIDAY, APRIL 24, 2015

 

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON SUPPLY

 

11:13 A.M.

 

CHAIRMAN

Ms. Patricia Arab

 

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Order, please. I call the Subcommittee on Supply to order.

 

This morning we have estimates of the Department of Labour and Advanced Education and will be considering the following resolution:

 

            Resolution E14 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $362,931,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Labour and Advanced Education, pursuant to the Estimate.

 

MADAM CHAIRMAN: Minister, I welcome you and your staff here today and ask you to start us off with some opening remarks and an introduction of those you have sitting with you.

 

The honourable Minister of Labour and Advanced Education.

 

            HON. KELLY REGAN: Madam Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to speak about this year's budget for the Department of Labour and Advanced Education, and the important work being done by the department.

 

            I'd like to introduce a couple of people who are here with me today. On my right is Duff Montgomerie, our Deputy Minister, and on my left is Laurie Bennett, our Director of Financial Planning.

 

Several members of the LAE senior leadership team are also in the audience, representing the dedicated civil servants working in the areas of: Skills and Learning, that is the division that helps ensure Nova Scotians are trained for the job opportunities available in our province; Higher Education, the division that works with students, universities, the community college, and private career colleges to help students access quality post-secondary education; Safety, the division that works with employers to make sure that workplaces are safe and that employees come home safe at the end of the day; Labour Services, the division that promotes employment standards and works with all parties involved in labour issues; the Apprenticeship Agency, that's the industry lead agency that helps more apprentices get and complete the training they need for good jobs here at home; and of course the Corporate Service areas that help run the department behind the scenes.

 

            Our department's focus is broad, with the goal of getting more people working and working safely, training, studying, hiring and bringing to life the innovative ideas that will help our province's economy and people thrive and prosper. This is a tall order, Madam Chairman, but I'm so impressed by what could be accomplished when committed, capable people work toward a common goal.

 

            Over the past year we've celebrated many accomplishments. We successfully negotiated a Canada Job Fund Agreement with the federal government that will allow us to continue to help Nova Scotians access the training and support they need for good jobs. We also made great strides toward accomplishing the goals set out in the Workplace Safety Strategy, which aims to make Nova Scotia's workplaces safer. We established the Nova Scotia Apprenticeship Agency. And that's just to name a few. I'm very proud of the department's accomplishments and of the commitment that I see in my department day in and day out, even in the face of tough budget news shared a few weeks ago.

 

            The 2015-16 provincial budget holds the line on spending, restructures government, and continues to clear the way for private sector growth. In light of our fiscal challenges, the budget makes the changes necessary to protect core government services like health care, education, and support for seniors and low-income Nova Scotians. Put simply, the province's cupboard is bare. It will take all of us - every Nova Scotian - to get us back on the right track. We will all have to give more in some areas and accept less in others. That is our reality - harsh as it may be.

 

            On government's part, we are asking for incredible spending restraint, and that simply wouldn't be possible without the hard work of civil servants, including those who work at the Department of Labour and Advanced Education.

 

            So what does all of this mean for LAE? In some cases it may mean we have to stop doing some things but, more importantly, it means we have to do things differently. We have to challenge ourselves to be more innovative, to work more closely with our partners, including employers, educational institutions, and advocacy groups. It means we have to really push ourselves to think critically and strategically about the work we're doing. There is no tolerance for the status quo or for the attitude that it's acceptable to keep doing things in a certain way because that's how they've always been done. We owe Nova Scotians so much more than that.

 

            The questions I will challenge myself and my staff with this year are: is what we're doing really helping those Nova Scotians who are relying on us; if it isn't, then what changes do we have to make and how quickly can we make them? The hard numbers on the estimate sheets are one thing, and I'm prepared to outline those today and answer questions, but they don't tell the whole story - not even close.

 

            What is important to me in my role as the Minister of Labour and Advanced Education is the outcome of those numbers and the impact on real Nova Scotians. How many Nova Scotians are getting post-secondary education? How many employers are hiring apprentices? How many young people are staying here after they graduate because we connected them to a job? How many Nova Scotians are coming home at the end of the day because their workplaces are safe? The answers to questions like these is how I'll measure my success as the minister responsible for this department.

 

            The Premier recently announced a new Department of Business and an Office of Regulatory and Service Effectiveness. Together they form a lean central agency focused on creating the right conditions for the private sector to grow the economy and create jobs. My department has a critical support role to play in growing the economy. Madam Chairman, it is our job to ensure we have a healthy and well-educated workforce that is prepared to take advantage of opportunities now and into the future.

 

            Now that I've given you some insight into my priorities this year, let's turn to the general budget numbers for my department. We actually have two separate budgets. One is for all of the funding given to universities, and one is for the remainder of the department and that includes student assistance. I'll go into more detail on the funding to universities a little later, but on high level, the total university funding budget for this year is $376 million - that's an increase of just over $3 million.

 

            This budget makes the changes necessary to keep education accessible for Nova Scotia students studying at Nova Scotia universities, and provides the funding universities need to protect quality over the long term.

 

            The university budget also includes funding for the Nova Scotia Research and Innovation Trust, and the Brain Repair Centre - responsibilities transferred from the former Department of Economic and Rural Development and Tourism.

 

            Funding for the Brain Repair Centre supports research by scientists and clinicians affiliated with Dalhousie University, Capital Health, and the IWK Health Centre. The NSRIT supports research in Nova Scotia by matching national funding from the Canada Foundation for Innovation, which benefits researchers in health and life sciences, ocean technology, clean technology, and information and communications technology.

 

            The budget for the remainder of the Department of Labour and Advanced Education is $362.9 million. In addition to the $12.1 million in program funds transferring into this budget from the former Department of Economic and Rural Development and Tourism, there is also additional support for the operation of the Nova Scotia Apprenticeship Agency.

 

            The most significant budget changes are those associated with the programs being transferred to LAE from the former Department of Economic and Rural Development and Tourism. These programs are focused on helping employees develop skills and students - helping jobs; we'll also provide funding for innovative research. I want to start by saying that I'm very pleased that LAE is going to be taking on responsibility for these programs. They are a perfect fit for the work we're already doing and, in fact, from the day I walked in the door I kept saying, these programs should be over with us. So I was pleased to find out that they were coming.

 

            In fact, I expect there will be many opportunities for efficiencies and synergies and we'll be able to stretch the dollars associated with these programs even further as a result. The programs focused on skills development and connection to the workforce will reside within the Skills and Learning Branch.

 

            These programs include the Workplace Innovation and Productivity Skills Incentive, also known as WIPSI; the Strategic Co-operative Education Incentive; the Student Career Skills Development Program; and Graduate to Opportunity. We're still evaluating and determining the best and most effective way to offer these programs now that they're part of the suite of programs and services that LAE offers to Nova Scotians and employers.

 

            I'm asking for the patience of my colleagues in this room, as well as the people who use and rely on these programs. While we are most definitely addressing urgent needs, I want to be sure we take the time to really understand these programs. There may be changes to better align them with work happening at LAE and across government. Either way, I anticipate all the initiatives transferred to us will be operational again by May 1^st.

 

            Let me take a few minutes to walk you through these programs. The first is WIPSI. The Workplace Innovation and Productivity Skills Incentive is a program that provides funding to employers to invest in workplace training to improve productivity. In addition, WIPSI is the program through which the Canada-Nova Scotia Job Grant is delivered. With a $6.4 million budget, the WIPSI program has supported businesses from a broad number of sectors. This funding helps them become more productive by supporting training in areas like lean manufacturing, business, financial and project management, in addition to a whole host of business-specific training.

 

            The Strategic Co-operative Education Incentive and the Student Career Skills Development Program are also transferring to my department. They are aimed at providing students with summer employment and hands-on learning opportunities as part of their programs. The Strategic Co-operative Education Incentive - I may have to rename that because I have a hard time getting that out - provides private sector, government-funded and non-profit organizations, with 50 per cent of the required minimum hourly wage of $15 an hour for co-operative education opportunities.

 

            The Student Career Skills Development Program partners with not-for-profit organizations to create career-related summer jobs for post-secondary students. We know from the research we did around universities that Nova Scotians believe hands-on learning is critical to helping students gain valuable experience that will, in turn, help them secure jobs when they graduate. That's why one of the innovation teams that we're forming between government, our post-secondary institutions, students, and the private sector will focus on hands-on learning.

 

            I'll talk more about this research and the innovation teams a little later, but I raise it now to simply point out that the student employment programs that have just become part of my department are closely aligned with the work that we're already doing. They have created hundreds of positions and jobs for students since they began, and I'm looking forward to continuing the great work started by the former department and to the new opportunities that may result.

 

            Finally, Madam Chairman, there is a $1.6 million investment in Graduate to Opportunity. This program connects post-secondary graduates with their first job, and it provides salary contributions to employers to offset the hiring of a recent graduate. The number-one thing I hear from students is that they want our help in connecting them to jobs, and that's exactly what Graduate to Opportunity and these other programs are about. Graduate to Opportunity is relatively new, but we're anticipating it will lead to 100 full- time job opportunities in its first year.

 

            Before I move on, I want to mention the START program. It's very similar to the Graduate to Opportunity program in that it helps connect people to jobs. The START program helps make it easier for unemployed Nova Scotian apprentices and those who have been out of the workforce get the training and job experience they need. At the same time, it helps employers attract the skilled workforce they require. START encourages employers to hire work-ready Nova Scotians who are looking for experience, and employers receive financial supports for things like training and wage subsidies.

 

            Our investment in the START program includes $4.8 million for unemployed Nova Scotians and $525,000 for apprentices. We need to grow our skilled workforce and, to do that, we need to offer the tools that both employees and employers need. The START program is one of those tools. We all know the old conundrum "you need experience to get a job, but you need a job to get experience" - valuable, relevant, on-the-job experience.

 

            One of the biggest challenges for many people here, or anywhere, is to find that first opening where they can gain some experience and get a foot in the door. START encourages employers to hire Nova Scotians who are looking for experience and help them get that foot in the door - and it is working.

 

            Since it began in 2012, over 1,200 Nova Scotians have gotten a job through START and over 900 businesses are involved in the program. About half of those connections are in rural areas, clearly showing the reach and benefit this program has. With clear successes, continued funding for the programs I've just highlighted only makes sense. These are examples of the targeted investments we're making to support our workforce and economy, and secure a bright future.

 

            I'd be remiss if I didn't also highlight the work of the Nova Scotia Apprenticeship Agency in its inaugural year. Government made a commitment to strengthen Nova Scotia's apprenticeship system and expand apprenticeship opportunities in the province. Apprenticeship is incredibly important to the growth of our industries and our economy. It brings new talent and innovation to the workplace, ensures the skill requirements of industry are being met, and provides an avenue for business to plan for the future. There are great jobs in the skill trades and we want to make sure our employers are providing more opportunities for our apprentices to train, become certified, and enjoy viable careers right here in their home province.

 

            Too often we hear of Nova Scotians moving west for work, and we're working to change that. We want to have the best apprenticeship system, and that means everyone will need to work together - employers, apprentices, training partners, and governments from every province and territory - but at the end of the day, it's really employers who are at the heart of the apprenticeship system. Without employers, apprenticeship simply doesn't work. They're the ones who give apprentices their on-the-job training and they play an enormous role in getting apprentices the skills they need for good jobs. It makes sense to give them more authority and a bigger say in the system, and that's exactly what we've done.

 

            On July 1, 2014, apprenticeship became a separate agency lead by industry and driven by the needs of our employers and apprentices. Since the agency was launched, we've seen more apprentices registering and completing their programs; more employers hiring; and more young people getting involved.

 

            We've registered 1,352 new apprentices, bringing the total number of apprentices in the province to 5,909. We have 1,737 active employers who are hiring apprentices, and 101 new youth apprentices. Last year, the START program provided support to 88 employers, helping connect 95 apprentices with the hands-on experience they need to achieve their certification.

 

            The agency has also worked hard to put agreements in place with other provinces to help apprentices finish their training faster. Across Canada, provinces are separately responsible for apprenticeship training, creating 13 different systems. Over time, this has led to differences in how we train and what our training programs look like.

 

            Working with our Atlantic colleagues, as well as nationally, the agency is reducing barriers that apprentices may face when they need to move to another jurisdiction for work. This will open up more opportunities for apprentices to access on-the-job training.

 

            As a partner in the Atlantic Apprenticeship Harmonization Project, the agency will help our apprentices get the training they need more quickly and our employers to recruit the people they need.

 

            No matter where the apprentices work in the region, they and their employers will benefit from the consistent policies and processes that the four provinces have now adopted. In addition, work is underway to harmonize the apprenticeship technical training in 10 trades across the Atlantic region. Two of these - bricklayer and cook - are expected to be completed later this year, with the remainder in place by 2017.

 

            Similar work in another 10 trades is being done at the national level. The agency is also working on a plan to ensure that hours of work and technical training obtained as an apprentice or graduate of a college apprenticeship program will be recognized across Canada, no matter where it was done.

 

            An agreement has already been signed with the Alberta Government; this will make it easier for Nova Scotians who begin their apprenticeship in another province to come home to Nova Scotia to continue their training and certification. It's a win-win for our provinces and territories and, more importantly, it's a win for our apprentices.

 

            Today's reality is that workers are moving all over the country. Our job is to make sure they have clear pathways to obtaining their certification, so they can contribute fully to our economy.

 

            Madam Chairman, the most difficult part about our apprenticeship work is changing the culture, attitudes, and perception of the skilled trades. We must reposition the value of the skilled trades in the minds of parents, youth, diverse groups, employers, and society in general. Apprenticeship stakeholders told us recently at their annual meeting that a top priority of the agency needs to be the promotion of apprenticeship as a viable post-secondary option and professional career path for our youth.

 

            It will be so important for the agency, through its partnership with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, provincial school boards, industry and organizations like Skills Canada- Nova Scotia and Texploration, to continue to reach out proactively to youth, as well as to those who influence their decisions and create tangible opportunities for them to explore careers in the skilled trades.

 

            For example, this summer, through programs funded by the agency, over 100 high school students will be employed by industry in the construction and motive power trades. They'll get valuable experience and exposure while earning co-op credits towards graduation. There is also money in this year's budget - $900,000 - specifically for investing in youth-focused initiatives. There is also $6 million for the development and delivery of apprenticeship technical training in Nova Scotia. These are just some of the efforts of the agency to encourage more employers to hire apprentices and to help more apprentices complete training and drive the changes needed to modernize apprenticeship in Nova Scotia.

 

            Madam Chairman, I'd like to finish the discussion on the LAE budget by talking about workplace safety. One of the most important responsibilities I have as the Minister of Labour and Advanced Education is the safety of the province's workers. I know we all want every worker to come home safe to their families at the end of the workday. Nova Scotians need to know that we're looking out for them when they walk into their place of work - morning, noon, or night - and we are.

 

            We're working with the WCB and other partners to build a safety culture. There is significant work underway to enhance and improve workplace safety in Nova Scotia, and I'd like to take a few moments to talk about that work and some of the progress we've made. I also want to point out that working safely is very much connected to growing our economy. A safe workforce is the key to a prosperous workforce. People want to work for employers who value their safety and the safety of their loved ones.

 

            Two years ago, my department partnered with the Workers' Compensation Board and thousands of workers, employers, and safety partners to develop the Workplace Safety Strategy. The goal is simple - we want to make Nova Scotia the safest place to work in the country.

 

            Since the strategy has been implemented, we've seen some good progress. With a continued focus on compliance, enforcement, and education, we're seeing more young people learning about workplace safety, fewer workers being injured on the job, and more high-risk industries becoming safer. There is greater awareness, support, and collaboration from all partners. Workers, employers, industry and governments are coming together like never before to address safety. Families are having conversations with loved ones before they go off to work, telling them to be safe. Pedestrians walking by construction sites are more mindful of the signs that people are at work, and they're looking to see that they're working safely - and, if they're not, we're hearing from them.

 

            Young workers heading into their first jobs know their rights. Changes are happening and these changes have not been achieved by one person or one organization; that's simply not possible. Changing workplace safety culture and improving safety in every workplace across this province takes partnership, it takes collaboration, and can only be achieved by working together.

 

            A couple of weeks ago, I spoke at a safety conference that was attended by over 600 safety partners including workers, employers, and stakeholders. The sheer number of people who travelled to take part in this conference - and if I recall correctly, it wasn't exactly a good weather day - is evidence that safety is not only important, it's a priority. During that conference, I got the opportunity to hear stories of success and stories of real culture change.

 

            A story that stands out is about the fishing industry. We all know that fishing is one of Nova Scotia's most dangerous industries; it's also something that's deeply rooted in our history. Sometimes when you've been doing something one way for generations, change is unwelcome - but this hasn't been the case. We're working closely with fishermen and others in the industry to promote safety training and the use of personal flotation devices or PFDs. I must say, I'm very encouraged with the response.

 

            The decision to delay opening lobster season in southwestern Nova Scotia last year was made by those who rely on the catch to make a living. They decided the conditions of the sea posed too much risk and actually delayed the opening for five days. This decision speaks volumes about the priority they place on safety - as does the fact that retailers in southwestern Nova Scotia couldn't keep their shelves stocked with personal flotation devices. They were, quite literally, flying off the shelves. Sales in the area increased by 100 per cent over the year before.

 

            We're not only seeing change in the fishing industry - change is happening across the board in many occupations. For example, in 2012, the number of people hurt seriously and have to lose time from work fell to under 6,000 - a reduction of 81 injuries, and the lowest in the last decade. That was a significant reduction from 2005 when the number of workers seriously hurt was over 9,000. This is progress. Every worker spared from injury counts.

 

            Significantly, in 2014, there were no fatalities in the construction industry - historically one of the most dangerous industries in the province - and I want to acknowledge the strides made by that industry in making safety a priority.

 

            Last year, I committed to doubling the number of targeted inspections in high-risk industries. I'm pleased to tell you that we not only met that goal, we surpassed it. We have a new dedicated prosecutor in place and he is focused on prosecuting occupational health and safety offences. Several months ago we hired five additional safety inspectors and they're focused on doing thorough inspections in businesses and industries that pose a risk to the province's workers. We've developed a tool kit for small- and medium-size businesses to ensure they have the resources they need to make better safety decisions for their workplaces.

 

            These are just a few examples of the work under way to change the safety culture and improve safety in every workplace across the province. In 2013, there were 17 acute workplace fatalities in Nova Scotia; in 2014 that number was reduced to five. While I'm encouraged by this improvement, we all know the only acceptable number is zero - we won't stop working until every Nova Scotian comes home safe every day. Every single life lost in the workplace is a reminder that we still have work to do. It will take continued hard work and dedication on the part of all Nova Scotians to continue to improve workplace safety.

 

            We're already seeing progress, and I'm confident that we'll reach our goal of one day becoming the safest place to work in Canada. The $14.5 million being invested this year will help in our work toward that goal.

 

            Madam Chairman, now I'd like to talk a little bit about universities. Last Fall we started a conversation with Nova Scotians about the future of our universities. We wanted to talk with students, parents, university leaders, faculties, staff, and other Nova Scotians because our universities are facing both financial and demographic challenges. Simply put, our universities don't have enough money to thrive. If nothing is done, our universities will face an annual deficit of tens of millions of dollars - and that's just in two years' time.

 

            There are only a couple of places for universities to get more money - students or taxpayers. Students can only pay so much, and with an aging population and more competition to attract students, universities are finding it hard to keep enrolments up, but taxpayers already pay a heavy share too. Based on our population, Nova Scotians invest more per capita in post-secondary education than all but one other province. Per capita we're spending about $100 more than the national average.

 

            Just a couple of weeks ago Alex Usher, of Higher Education Strategy Associates, did some provincial comparisons. His work compared how much provinces spend on universities in terms of a percentage of their gross domestic product. Nova Scotia's total university expenditure is well above the Canadian average. In most provinces, total university expenditure is about 2 per cent of GDP. In Nova Scotia, at 3.2 per cent of GDP, we're not only leading the country, but it's likely the highest spending jurisdiction in the world. If we factor in colleges and look at the provincial spending on post-secondary education overall, Nova Scotia continues to be at the front of the pack at spending that exceeds 3.75 per cent of GDP. It's clear that taxpayers contribute significantly to our universities' operations.

 

            The state of our universities though is not all doom and gloom - not in the least. Our university campuses are filled with some of the brightest minds in the province - leaders, innovators, educators, problem-solvers, young people who shouldn't be held back by old ideas.

 

            Nova Scotians had plenty of good things to say about our universities when we talked with them over the Fall and the winter. On quality and innovation, Nova Scotians found common ground - virtually everyone agrees our universities are tremendous assets. Whether you value universities as places to learn and grow, or to help people get jobs, or to help drive our economic growth, Nova Scotians value our universities, and this echoes what others have said.

 

            The One Nova Scotia Commission says our universities are some of our greatest assets; Maclean's consistently gives our universities top marks; and a recent national report out of Ontario puts Nova Scotia universities among the top performers in the country.

 

            Now, Madam Chairman, comments around accessibility landed on less common ground. Generally, people worry about the cost of a university education. They want their tax dollars to support Nova Scotia students at Nova Scotia universities first, but there were, and are, very different views on tuition. On one hand, universities are independent institutions and they want to set their own tuitions without any caps; on the other hand, some student leaders and others have called for free tuition or at least a tuition freeze.

 

            Nova Scotians are also divided on whether government should or shouldn't increase funding to universities. When opinions are divided like they are with tuition and university funding, we need to seek a solution that balances those differences, and that is what is reflected in this year's budget.

 

            The budget provides the funding universities need to protect quality over the long term. This year, $3.2 million has been invested to increase university operating grants by 1 per cent. Government respects universities as independent institutions; they must have reasonable freedom and flexibility to make decisions - including decisions on tuitions.

 

            When tuition was frozen years ago, it created inequities that put some universities at a disadvantage compared to similar schools. Market adjustments will allow universities to charge similar amounts for similar programs. If they can't do that, they can't continue to offer the same number or quality of programs.

 

            Universities will make their own decisions, but will have to consider things like what students can pay, what other schools are charging, and the potential impact on enrolment. Universities have said they will take a reasonable approach and they will phase in the adjustment over several years.

 

            Budget decisions are also focused on keeping education accessible for Nova Scotia students studying at Nova Scotia universities. The budget includes measures that mean universities can charge more, but also ensures increases will remain limited for Nova Scotia students.

 

            After the market adjustments, all Nova Scotia students will be protected by a 3 per cent tuition cap. I know any increase for students is hard, but Nova Scotia taxpayers fund one of the most generous student assistance programs in the country. Our government now pays the interest on provincial student loans for Nova Scotia graduates. We also offer a loan forgiveness program. Undergrad students who graduate within a reasonable time can have their entire provincial student loan forgiven, and that can save students up to $15,000.

 

            Students with permanent disabilities can now take more time to graduate, allowing them to gain the education they work hard for on a schedule that works for them. The loan forgiveness program is available to Nova Scotia undergrad students who attend Nova Scotia universities.

 

            The province also provides a little-known Nova Scotia student bursary to 20,000 Nova Scotia students who are studying here at home. That program automatically takes nearly $1,300 off students' tuitions. This is a significant investment in Nova Scotia students by Nova Scotia taxpayers.

 

            Madam Chairman, I'd like to talk for a minute about another initiative that supports students. Graduate scholarships put money into the hands of hundreds of students who are committed to continuing their education and research here in Nova Scotia. Today's students are tomorrow's entrepreneurs, leaders, and skilled workers.

 

            Our universities also play a role in building the economy and stimulating innovation, research, and growth. We'll build on that success by funding more graduate scholarships for research and innovation to expand research capacity here in Nova Scotia. Budget 2015 includes an additional $925,000 to provide about 85 more scholarships for graduate students at Nova Scotia universities this year.

 

            I want to mention another area of consensus from our consultation on universities. I noted earlier that most people agreed students can benefit from more co-op and hands-on learning and universities should open their doors wider to business and entrepreneurs.

 

            In the next few weeks, I'll talk more about the innovation teams that are forming between government, our post-secondary institutions, students, and the private sector. These teams will set clear priorities, with deadlines, to deliver results. They'll brainstorm at different campuses, reaching out to the students while they're there. One of the first priorities is more hands-on learning opportunities like co-op education.

 

            As probably everyone here in the room knows, I have an English and Legal Studies degree from the University of Waterloo. I went through the co-op program. Beyond the classroom, I had five work terms where I had the chance to put what I learned in the classroom to the test. I had work terms in public relations and I worked in the first computerized television newsroom in the country. When I graduated, I walked down the street from the campus and into a job. Simply put, co-op works for students and it works for employers.

 

            We have some great co-op programs in Nova Scotia. There are successes to build on, but we need more - particularly in arts and programs where these opportunities are now limited.

 

            One of the innovation teams I mentioned earlier will include entrepreneurs and will find ways to help more and more students develop entrepreneurial skills. Now I'm not suggesting that every scientist or artist should become a corporate leader, but the same kind of drive that's needed to start a successful business can help a scientist secure a research grant, and an artist with entrepreneurial skills can open more doors or even their own galleries to display and sell their works.

 

            Entrepreneurship and co-op education are not new ideas; they have been valued and talked about for years within government or at an individual institution. This time they're being tackled as a province-wide priority with universities, the private sector, and students. If we want meaningful growth in entrepreneurship and employment-related education, I believe we need entrepreneurs and employers at the table. These and other changes will protect and build on quality - and they will also provide a greater return for students on their sizeable investment.

 

            Again, before I move on, I want to make the connection between what I've just highlighted and the information I shared earlier about the student employment programs transferring to my department from the former Department of Economic and Rural Development and Tourism.

 

            Whether we're talking about connecting university graduates with their first job or helping them secure co-op terms and summer employment, it's a great fit with the work we're already doing here at LAE, particularly the work that will be done by the innovation teams I just referenced.

 

            I want to mention one more thing with respect to universities before I move on. Government's role is to provide reasonable funding to ensure quality education. Funding must be linked to clear outcomes with universities accountable for results. Nova Scotians agree, and that's why I've introduced legislation that increases the financial accountability of all our universities. Our government is working hard to get our financial house in order, and we expect the institutions we fund to do the same.

 

            The other part of the legislation sets out a revitalization process that would help universities restructure if they are in financial distress. I liken this to an insurance policy that's good to have, but you hope you never have to use. This legislation gives universities a tool to help them get back on track. I won't get into the details, but suffice it to say the focus of the legislation is on ensuring our universities are here and healthy for years to come.

 

            I know this was a tough budget for students, but if our universities can't raise revenue and taxpayers can't pay more, the quality won't survive and then everybody's investment, including students, would be wasted. I understand students would like to see more grants and more money, but government is also responsible for getting the deficit under control so the next generation carries less of a burden. Kicking this issue down the road simply was not an option.

 

            Madam Chairman, thank you for giving me the time to talk about some of the work under way at the Department of Labour and Advanced Education. It's an absolute honour for me to be the minister of this department and the hundreds of people who are doing amazing and important work. Even on the tough days when I have to make tough decisions, I am grateful for this opportunity to serve. I think it's pretty clear from what I've discussed today that the work is very broad - from soup to nuts, as the saying goes - but at the same time it all seems to go hand in hand.

 

            There are challenges before us - yes, absolutely. There are challenges before all of us, not just as politicians but as Nova Scotians, but we have a plan and we'll get this province to a better place. The 2015-16 provincial budget sets the stage to help us overcome those challenges. It holds the line on spending, restructures and reduces the size of government, and continues to clear the way for private sector growth.

 

            The Department of Labour and Advanced Education will continue to do its part to control costs and review programs to ensure we're focusing on the right things and getting the right outcomes. As I said earlier, there will not be tolerance for the status quo or for the attitude that it's acceptable to keep doing things a certain way because that's how they've always been done. We owe Nova Scotians more than that.

 

            In 2015-16 we will continue to focus on the things that make a difference. The Nova Scotia Apprenticeship Agency will continue working to get more employers hiring apprentices, more youth apprentices and under-represented groups registered, and more apprentices completing their training. We'll focus on the quality and sustainability of our post-secondary education system in a way that increases access and participation for all Nova Scotia students. We will negotiate a new four-year memorandum of understanding with the universities that will chart the course for the next four years. We'll be guided in what we've heard from university partners and students as we make decisions that balance what is needed to ensure our university system is here for years to come, with what students and taxpayers can afford.

 

We'll continue working towards the goals of the Workplace Safety Strategy with a focus on education, compliance, and enforcement. We'll target high-risk employers who break safety laws and work closely with employers, workers, and safety partners, to take a close look at our regulations and determine what, if any, changes are needed.

 

            The department will also focus on timely access to services for those seeking advice on labour standards, workers' compensation appeals, and labour relations. Over the next several months we'll continue consulting with career resource centres and employment partners to make the necessary changes to better meet the needs of workers looking for jobs, and employers looking to hire.

 

            The One Nova Scotia report was clear, it called for immediate action to ensure we meet our economic challenges head-on and to do our part to ensure our province prospers now and well into the future.

 

            We look forward to working with labour, business, education, and safety and training partners to build a safer, more prosperous and vibrant province for all Nova Scotians. Thank you.

 

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Thank you. We'll turn our questioning over to the Progressive Conservative caucus.

 

            The honourable member for Pictou Centre.

 

            HON. PAT DUNN: Madam Chairman, I'm the Education and Early Childhood Development Critic and the Critic for Natural Resources, but I'm pinch-hitting today, filling in for the Labour and Advanced Education Critic. I have his notes here and I'll do my best to sift through them.

 

            I mentioned to the minister earlier that perhaps we could reconvene in the library over there, like we did last year, but I guess that's not the case. First of all I want to thank the minister for being here to answer some questions, and Ms. Bennett. And, of course, Duff - it's nice to see you again, great memories from 2009 when we were with Health Promotion and Protection and all the assistance and help you were to me at that particular time.

 

            I want to thank all the staff members here and the great job they do, and I sincerely mean that, a lot of difficult decisions, a lot of hard work, and we certainly appreciate what you're doing and will continue to do within your department for the Province of Nova Scotia.

 

            I guess I'll start off in the education area and ask you some questions, minister, and probably before the hour is over I'll be all over the map, but I'll try to stay in certain areas. Again, I didn't hear everything you said during your talk, due to the noise outside, more than anything.

 

            MS. REGAN: I could start over.

 

            MR. DUNN: Oh, dear, maybe tomorrow, I'm not sure if there would be much audience here. I'm going to ask you a question about the MOU for universities and basically get you to talk about what is the status of the new MOU for universities, and I guess basically as you are talking about that, what students were involved in the process and what other people were involved in that process - just a generalized question dealing with the MOU. You can hear the applause for that question, minister.

 

            MS. REGAN: The last MOU expired on March 31^st and we've begun the work on the new MOU. Students are being consulted along the way, as I've often mentioned, I believe, in the House, we consult with our students more than any other jurisdiction in the country. We have regular meetings with student leaders, the two groups that sort of head up the student organizations, CFS and Students Nova Scotia, as well as the presidents of the individual student unions attend these particular meetings. So we do have consistent feedback from those student leaders.

 

            I know that my staff speaks with them on a regular basis as well, they are open and accessible to those students. So they will have the opportunity to comment on the MOU as it's being developed but the process is different than it has been in the past, there isn't a table where everyone sits around and discusses it, it has been broken down into different sections. We do anticipate that the MOU should be ready for signing in early summer.

 

            MR. DUNN: The next question is, could you describe to me the rationale of allowing universities one year with which to raise tuition as they see fit? I know you were talking about that in your initial - just again, if you just want to go by rationale why that is occurring.

 

            MS. REGAN: Actually that's common misinformation that's circulating about - sorry, can you hear me okay? I'll move a little closer to the microphone. You could move to the other chair, which is a little closer and you might hear - I don't know.

 

            They have the opportunity to do a one-time market adjustment. That doesn't mean that it has to go up the entire amount in one year, they can phase it in over a number of years and then the cap will apply. This coming year most universities have signalled that they will just abide by the 3 per cent cap this coming year.

 

            MR. DUNN: Given that students were part of the consultation process the department has just completed regarding post-secondary education in the province, it would seem logical that students would have been consulted regarding the one-year tuition cap exemption. I guess the question is, were students at the table when the government was discussing the impact of a one-year extension of the tuition cap?

 

            MS. REGAN: Students were widely consulted during the consultation. There were a number of meetings where students attended and that was a broad consultation, it went on over a number of months. There were many opportunities for our students to give us feedback. We had an online component. I really felt that the department went above and beyond trying to solicit opinions not just from students but from their parents who often have to pay for a good chunk of their education as well.

 

            There was a lot of opportunity for us to hear what students and what other Nova Scotians felt about tuition.

 

            MR. DUNN: We both know that parents certainly play a big part in providing education for their young ones.

 

            During that process, basically what was the overall feeling from the students when the process came to an end and they knew what was happening? I'm sure during the process they may have been in one place and at the end in another place - basically what was the overall feeling from university students with regard to what was happening?

 

            MS. REGAN: I think it's fair to say that students never want an increase and I don't blame them for not wanting an increase. If I were still in school I wouldn't want to see tuition go up, but my job as minister is to balance a variety of different concerns and interests. I have to worry about the quality of our universities as well.

 

You would be aware that the previous government cut funding to universities by $35 million and that impacted quality in the sense that universities began making cuts. Don't get me wrong, we expect that the institutions that we fund, that they will live within their fiscal envelope and they will not only live within their fiscal envelope, Madam Chairman, but that they will also look at the fiscal situation of the province.

 

The result of the $35 million in cuts was that a number of universities began having great financial difficulties and began coming to government for additional funding. So cutting on the one hand and giving money to universities - some universities, not all universities - on the other hand quite frankly isn't fair. There were some universities that had run very lean operations always and didn't get into trouble, and there were other ones that did not so much and got into trouble. So here we were, rewarding the ones that got into trouble - it didn't seem fair to me.

 

            MR. DUNN: With the increases to tuition forthcoming, will the new accountability measures be in place before the semester begins in September?

 

            MS. REGAN: The bill takes effect upon proclamation, so yes.

 

            MR. DUNN: The cost growth among our universities, again as stated, is a major problem - could the minister detail her department's specific plan to combat unsustainable cost growth for Nova Scotia universities?

 

            MS. REGAN: Well I guess one of the things we have said to universities is they need to manage their own institutions. We don't want them coming back to us every year saying we couldn't manage our institution. They need to take the steps to manage their own institution, to manage their budget envelope.

 

            We don't just do that with universities, Madam Chairman, we do that with all the organizations we fund. That, in part, is why I brought in the accountability Act, so that we can actually see what is going on with our universities, because in the past they would give us financial information, but there was no common template and it made it difficult sometimes to actually know what was going on.

 

            For the next four years what we're trying to do is be fair to the universities and to the students, to make sure we keep our universities sustainable.

 

            MR. DUNN: Just to follow that up with one last question: do you believe the new accountability legislation will address this situation?

 

            MS. REGAN: Sorry, I didn't catch it.

 

            MR. DUNN: The question was: do you believe the new accountability legislation will address the unsustainable cost growth of Nova Scotia universities?

 

            MS. REGAN: It will help us have an idea when the universities are heading down an unsustainable path. I should note that we have signalled to universities that they will receive the same increase in each of the next three years as well, so they know what their funding will be.

 

            One of the things I talked about a lot in Opposition was actually giving organizations a heads-up and letting them know what their multi-year funding would be. So that's one thing we have done with universities; they know what they're getting from us and they're going to have to make decisions about their own institution from there.

 

            MR. DUNN: I'm just looking for a general comment for this statement. It's just something that I guess I always thought should be in place. The comment is, all Nova Scotia students should be eligible for government student loans. Again, I'm really not sure of the financial ramifications of that, but having six children - three boys, three girls - who all went to university and all have multiple degrees and knowing a lot of students, because of my previous career in school, that a lot of students could not get loans, I always thought that if a child in Nova Scotia wants to go to university or post-secondary school and, of course, in Nova Scotia we have, I believe, 10 or 11 universities and probably about 13 locations for Nova Scotia Community Colleges, that the money should be there. It should be paid back, but it should be there.

 

            I guess I just want an overall comment on that.

 

            MS. REGAN: What I would say is that we actually have one of the most generous student loan programs in the country. Over the last number of years, Nova Scotia has increased the percentage of up-front grants from 20 per cent to 40 per cent. As I detailed in my speech earlier, a student can have their entire provincial student loan forgiven if they are a Nova Scotian, going to a Nova Scotian institution, and that can mean up to $15,000 removed from their debt load at the end of their university degree - that's if they graduate within four years. If they take longer, then that zero per cent interest program kicks in, so there are a number of options there.

 

            I realize it doesn't cover all students - and I am about to start paying again as I have a son going off to university this September, so I'm keenly aware of the cost of a university education and I sympathize with those who have six children to put through post- secondary.

 

            What I will say is that for students in most need, the Nova Scotia Student Assistance Program is there to assist them. It's a private good so we do expect that those who are able, contribute to their education.

 

            MR. DUNN: I thank the minister for that answer. This next question, I'm sure you won't have the answer at your fingertips but maybe it's something I can get later on. The question is: how many students, or what is the percentage of students who are entering Nova Scotia's post-secondary institutions who are actually eligible for a student loan?

 

            MS. REGAN: We'd have to get that for you, but I believe that 60 per cent of students would graduate with some form of a student loan, so I think if you flip that around and look at that it's about 60 per cent. (Interruption) I've just been told that it's probably closer to 50 per cent.

 

            MR. DUNN: The next question - there appears to be a trend since 2013 with the Senior Executive Office in the Higher Education Department receiving more funding. Apparently it's up approximately $6,000 from last year's estimate and $34,000 from the 2013-14 estimate. So while the cost of administration in other divisions is apparently down, why are administrative costs consistently rising in this office?

 

            MS. REGAN: Actually I just wanted to reply to your other question. The one thing that people don't often realize is that Nova Scotia students receive the Nova Scotia student bursary, so all students would get that. The reason they don't always realize is it actually comes off the tuition rate at the university source so sometimes you don't even realize it until you go to file taxes - what is this thing on here? That is $1,283 and that is given out to 20,000 Nova Scotia students. So while it isn't student assistance in the form of loans to all students, all students who are attending get that.

 

            Oh, sorry, and your question was about administration. That can be completely attributed to salary increases that are mandated.

 

            MR. DUNN: I believe you answered this question just a number of minutes ago. The question is: will universities be able to implement or phase in this one-time market adjustment to tuition over a number of years, or will it only be possible for one year? If I can remember, I think you were saying it's going to be . . .

 

            MS. REGAN: Universities have the choice to take it in one year or phase in. What we've been hearing from most universities is that they are more likely to phase it in over several years.

 

            MR. DUNN: How many graduate research scholarships will the department award this year?

 

            MS. REGAN: I have to go back to the other part of my book, so give me a minute here. That will be 240 this year and they are divided between a Masters, a Ph.D., and international students, and within international they are divided into Masters and Ph.D. as well.

 

            MR. DUNN: I thank the minister for that answer.

 

The next question, just following along with graduate students: what is the total number of graduate students in this province at the present time - again, it doesn't have to be right on the number, but do you have a rough idea, or does anyone?

 

            MS. REGAN: We have 8,000 graduate students in the province.

 

            MR. DUNN: Again, staying with those scholarships, my next question is, what will be the total value of all graduate research scholarships?

 

            MS. REGAN: It is $2.7 million this year.

 

            MR. DUNN: Again, staying on the same theme, how does this compare with the previous year, this $2.7 million?

 

            MS. REGAN: It was $1.85 million.

 

            MR. DUNN: Will this program be phased in over four years, and was this what was initially intended by the department?

 

            MS. REGAN: You are correct, the program will be phased in over four years. Initially we thought we could do it in three years, but due to the fiscal envelope we realized that we couldn't do it over three years; we're doing it over four.

 

            MR. DUNN: The department has lifted the cap on the graduate tuition, what data did the department use to determine that lifting this cap would not contribute to a decreased enrolment in graduate studies?

 

            MS. REGAN: I want to be clear that the universities are going to be making the decision on their tuitions. What we did look at was at tuition across the country and comparing tuition for our graduate students to tuitions across the country.

 

            Ours were significantly lower in a lot of the programs. Universities are going to have to manage their own institutions. Students are keenly aware of what the tuitions are from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and they are going to be looking at what they think is best for them. They're going to want to make sure they go to a program with high quality and we wanted to give universities the flexibility to have that high quality. But at the end of the day they can't price themselves out of the market because, otherwise, students will basically vote with their feet - they won't come.

 

            Universities watch each other like hawks and they know what other institutions are charging. Thank you.

 

            MR. DUNN: It is apparent that not all graduate students will receive graduate scholarships - is there any data out to state that? Is there any data concerning around the fact that - what is the percentage of ones who will not receive any scholarships?

 

            MS. REGAN: The particular graduate scholarships we announced are for research in certain targeted areas. One of the great things about these scholarships is that these are targeted to the student. A lot of research grants, et cetera, actually reside with the professor, so if a professor decides to move to another jurisdiction, that money goes with them. These actually go to the student directly and they are in certain key areas.

 

            There are a lot of internal scholarships and there are also federal dollars for graduate students. There are a lot of scholarships available for those students, so a lot of graduate students don't end up paying for their whole degree. Some workplaces pay for them; there are a variety of different ways they fund them but a lot of them don't actually pay for their full degree out of their own pockets.

 

            MR. DUNN: Was there any analysis of the impact because of this rising tuition, with regard to out-of-province students? During the analysis, are we expecting maybe a slight decrease in out-of-province students because, once again, they're going to look at universities across the country and internationally - so through the analysis, did you find out anything with regard to that?

 

            MS. REGAN: What we do know is that out-of-province students come to Nova Scotia for a variety of different reasons. One of them, quite frankly, is the great education they get here in Nova Scotia. They come here because they know we have highly ranked institutions that consistently top the Maclean's rankings, for example. They get what we heard, loud and clear, was that they liked the fact that there are smaller class sizes here in Nova Scotia, that they have contact with their professors, so there are a variety of reasons why students choose Nova Scotia to come here.

 

            Once again, the universities are going to have to be very careful in any decisions they make because, quite frankly, if they price themselves out of the market students just simply won't come. What I can say is that we do know that the institutions here are highly regarded. We just had another report out of Ontario within the last month, from the Canadian Postsecondary Performance: IMPACT 2015 report from the Higher Education Quality Council of Ontario, which ranked us tops in access to education and second in attainment rates, et cetera. Nova Scotia education is highly, highly regarded.

 

            MR. DUNN: Of the roughly 18,000 Nova Scotians eligible to have the interest on their provincial student loans eliminated, how many applied in the first year?

 

            MS. REGAN: I have it; I'm just looking for it. I'm going to have to get back to you on that - I saw that number the other day, but I don't have it at my fingertips.

 

            MR. DUNN: This next question may pertain to the same thing. Could you provide me with the stats regarding the average yearly savings for each student who applied for this?

 

            MS. REGAN: What we do know is that a student can save $800 throughout the life of their student loan, so I guess it would depend on how long they took to pay off their student loan. So it's $800 over the life of the student loan.

 

            MR. DUNN: Again, just staying for another couple of minutes with student loans and the tuition, the next question would be - and again, I'm not sure you'll have this information at your fingertips and if not, I can get it again - among Nova Scotia students with student loans, what is the average percentage of provincial student loans held versus the federal student loans?

 

            MS. REGAN: It is 60 per cent of federal student loan and 40 per cent of provincial student loan.

 

            MR. DUNN: With regard to the possible rise in tuition, 3 per cent in one year, will this neutralize whatever savings may come from the eliminated interest?

 

            MS. REGAN: I'm sorry, I don't have that analysis here; I will have to get back to you on that. Sorry.

 

            MR. DUNN: I'm going to leave the tuitions and the scholarships and so on . . .

 

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: I think the minister has the answer for you.

 

            MS. REGAN: Just to let you know, in 2014 we approved 4,183 borrowers for zero per cent interest.

 

            MR. DUNN: This question surrounds universities. I'm not so sure it's something that you can answer, and I think perhaps it's more of a university problem in management and so on, but I'm going to throw it out there, maybe even for a comment. It deals with - there have been student studies on a variety of things, one was on alcohol use at the university level, and some of these studies seemed to indicate that at some universities it's a critical problem.

 

I think Students Nova Scotia did a study, I'm not too sure if it was last year or this year, and they had recommendations and so on. I think this one particular study showed that one-quarter of the student population, or 26 per cent, were having problems. I guess where I'm sort of coming from is the safety aspect of the health part of it because of this over-consumption of alcohol.

I'm wondering, is there any role that your department can play in this with regard to ensuring that campuses are safe havens, safe places for universities, and students, of course?

 

            MS. REGAN: I've actually been quite impressed by the leadership the universities and the student organizations have taken on this particular front. It's clear to me that sometimes kids head off to university and maybe they haven't been exposed to a lot of alcohol before and sometimes things can go off the rails quite quickly.

 

In the past I think we've had a number of tragedies in this province around that particular issue and we have seen our universities step up on that front. I think it's so important, especially because we have young people there whose brains are often still forming so we don't want them consuming too much alcohol because it can mess with their brains as they're still growing, but also they may not realize the risks involved in a risky behaviour. They may not realize when they're consuming alcohol when to say when, et cetera.

 

            I have an 18-year-old son who is about to head off to school this Fall and we talk about things like alcohol. We talk about a number of things that I think parents should be talking to their children about, whether its alcohol, whether it's consent during sexual relations - oh my gosh, I just sounded like a sociology professor or something, but obtaining consent in an intimate relationship, et cetera. I do think it's important before a young person goes out the door to whatever post-secondary training, that their folks sit down with them and have conversations around issues like that, about respectful relationships, about alcohol and what can happen and what it can do, and how to protect yourself and protect your friends.

 

            I do think actually our universities take this very seriously. I know the student unions on campus do a good job on this front, but there may still be more work to do.

 

MR. DUNN: Again I agree with your answer there. For a while there you were talking like a mum, which is good, too - we all do.

 

            Staying with that same question for a few seconds, I guess where I was going with it, I know it's a university's mandate to oversee this, but with the government providing some funding to these universities and to the collaboration with the university, I don't know if I should be saying, do they - does the department insist that they look after this particular problem?

 

            MS. REGAN: I believe the Department of Health and Wellness - and we have a former Health Minister sitting here, so he may clarify this - offers bystander training for the universities. Certainly the universities do put funding into this kind of thing, so we send them their funding envelope and they do that there.

 

            MR. DUNN: I'm going to ask you to just make a comment. It's a statement from the Students Nova Scotia executive director and the statement was ". . . this government is breaking new ground in making Nova Scotia a difficult place for students and young people," re tuition increases and a reduction in financial assistance.

 

            Basically I just want you to give a general comment to that statement.

 

            MS. REGAN: I think we've been clear that we think it's appropriate that universities are allowed to charge similar prices for similar programs. I know that may be difficult for students to hear, but it's about the universities being able to maintain quality in a time of restraint.

 

            MR. DUNN: Madam Chairman, I'm just going to check on my time.

 

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Twenty minutes.

 

            MR. DUNN: Thank you. Again staying with the universities, we mentioned earlier about the inadequate funding that universities are facing and the difficult financial challenges they have. You did touch on this, but if you would reiterate it, the steps the department is taking to make sure the universities have transparency and accountability built in place for the public to feel confident in how tax dollars are being paid.

 

            MS. REGAN: Sorry, I'm not sure what the question was.

 

            MR. DUNN: Okay, it's again dealing with the amount of money that is flowing from the department into, and the accountability part of it, the transparency part of it, as far as making the taxpayer feel kind of confident that those dollars are being well spent at the university.

 

            MS. REGAN: That is actually a comment that we heard loud and clear during the consultation process and that's why I brought in the accountability and sustainability Act, so we can actually see that universities are not heading for trouble, that they are not making decisions that are going to lead them into trouble, that we'll have what is similar to what they have at Municipal Affairs: a dashboard where we can track a number of different indicators at the university so we can get a better idea when and if they are heading into difficult waters.

 

            MR. DUNN: I'm going to the next question, dealing with the debt cap, the cap dealing with Nova Scotians who no longer are eligible for the debt cap program on an undergraduate degree taken outside the province. Apparently if they are outside the province then they are not eligible and it may cost that student as much as $14,000 more to be outside the province taking their studies - again, just whatever information you can give to me about that?

 

            MS. REGAN: So in a difficult budget year what we heard loud and clear from Nova Scotians when we went out to consult with them was that they felt we should provide support for Nova Scotia students studying at Nova Scotia institutions.

 

            Now that doesn't mean that if you're a student who is attending a program outside the province that you're necessarily out of luck on that particular program because if your program is not offered in Nova Scotia, for example, then we can make an exception for that. And we've been clear on that, although not everyone realizes it. But if you're taking a program in another part of the country that isn't offered here in Nova Scotia, we can make an exception to that program.

 

            Those students, by the way, would still be eligible for the zero per cent interest program for their student loan. Also, if they are a disabled student - a student with a disability, sorry - that particular caveat does not apply, they can apply to any program throughout the country and they will get that program.

 

            MR. DUNN: Wouldn't it be nice if there was zero interest on lines of credit for university students attending school.

 

            I guess the next question is dealing with the number of seats available. How many seats are available for new med students entering medical school, for example, at Dalhousie - would you have that information?

 

            MS. REGAN: Each year there are 70 new seats.

 

            MR. DUNN: So there are 70 new seats, okay. Out of those 70 seats, approximately how many seats are available for Nova Scotia students?

 

            MS. REGAN: There would be 72 seats for students from Nova Scotia each year, in the incoming.

 

            MR. DUNN: Okay, 72 seats for Nova Scotia students. I'm going to go back to my original question: what is the total number of seats available at the school?

 

            MS. REGAN: Just to give you a little history there - 98 seats available, but 20 have gone to New Brunswick and they are studying at Dal Med in New Brunswick, so that leaves us with 78, and six are for Prince Edward Island, so the rest are for Nova Scotia.

 

            MR. DUNN: So looking at those 78 then, what about international students - are the international students taken out of those 78?

 

            MS. REGAN: There are no international students at the medical school.

 

            MR. DUNN: I guess my last question dealing with that - is there any possible chance in the future that there will be additional seats available for Nova Scotia students?

 

            MS. REGAN: The human resource plan for physicians indicates that we are training an adequate number of physicians. What we do need to work on is actually the distribution of those physicians, post-graduation, throughout the province.

 

            MR. DUNN: Again, I've talked to so many students over a number of years with regard to the difficulty of trying to get into med school in Nova Scotia, wanting to stay in Nova Scotia - and I know you are very familiar with that - and not being able to and sometimes not getting into universities across the country because their breakdown is perhaps somewhat similar to our province. Again, some of these students are very talented, very gifted, and so on.

 

I had someone come to my office last summer wondering if there was any way she could get funding to continue her education. She just finished two years at Saba in the Caribbean, and this particular student I had in school was the top student in the school in her graduating year. She ran into a brick wall and she didn't get into a university in the province or in the country, so she took the Caribbean route, like we know many have. Then she ran into a financial barrier and she couldn't get out of it and she couldn't continue her practice in hospitals in the U.S.

 

Again, it was very frustrating for me because I couldn't do anything for her. I made the phone calls everywhere in the country, every department I could think of. Again, this particular individual coming from a very modest family that didn't have the finances to continue to help her. It was heartbreaking for her because she was just the type of person you'd like to have in your province, in your community. Again, that is only one of many stories we have heard with regard to that.

 

            I wish we could have 298 seats in the province. I know that's not reality. Anyway, I'm going to leave that as it is, and perhaps go on to some other questioning.

 

            The next few questions are going to be dealing with the Collaborative Partnership Network in Nova Scotia. This particular network delivers employment services to nearly 3,000 persons with disabilities annually. I guess my first question is: does the government view this as a non-essential service?

 

            MS. REGAN: I did want to actually comment on your last question and then I'll go ahead to this one. I just wanted to let you know that each medical seat costs the province $60,000 a year. So when we're training our doctors, there is a significant cost to the province.

 

I have met so many wonderful young people who would make terrific physicians and I guess what I always tell them is if you don't get in the first time, try and try again. Very, very few students get in the first time to medical school. It's an extremely competitive process and I know so many students who it took two and three and four tries to get in to that program, but that's what they wanted to do. So if that's what a young person wants to do, I'd say buff up your volunteer work, et cetera, during that time, put it to some good use, do some more studies, or work, but try and try. If that's what you really are passionate about doing, I would urge them to do that because boy oh boy, that's a huge cost if you want to go to the Caribbean for medical school.

 

            MR. DUNN: So we'll forget about that last question; I'll go back to it, and we'll just continue that for a second. Again I know that you know that I've had personal experiences with this here - well, it's not a personal agenda but I have a son who is in his second year of med school at McGill and when he finished his first degree at McGill, he applied and again wasn't successful. The expectation was that was what would happen.

 

            I can recall being in Montreal and talking to some of his classmates and he said they applied, four or five of them didn't get in and he said if they don't get in, no one will because in his opinion they were top of the line. So he decided to take a second science degree, which he completed, reapplied to some Canadian universities, and the same result: he didn't get in. He took a year off to be a trainer in a department up there in a gymnasium in Montreal, which was great because it was in French, so it really boosted his becoming fluent in French.

 

            He applied again a third time, and got accepted to med school in Ottawa in French. So I'm saying to him, you got accepted to med school in French, but you can't get into an English one. He could have gone to the French one but at the same time he got accepted to dentistry school at McGill and he decided to take dentistry, so he took one year at dentistry school, which was a year ago. At the end of that, unknown to us, he applied again to med school at McGill and was accepted, at the end of his first year of dentistry. I thought this was great until he phoned home and said, I have to repeat that first year over. He said the first year is the same year for all students, the same course, the same everything, and he had all A's in his marks.

 

I said this doesn't make sense, you have to go talk to someone, which he did and he didn't get past first base the first couple of times in his conversations. Finally, through some more collaboration, he got to the right person who had some common sense to say look, what is the sense of you taking this entire year over, which was your ninth year, and got the okay. Again, it's just an example of the difficulty that some students are going through.

 

            Again, my youngest daughter, who is a science grad from McGill is accepted at Saba and supposed to start last September but didn't, deferred it to this May, is not going because you're looking at $300,000 to $350,000 to go through that program. Once again, the funds aren't there, so she has made the decision, like you said, to wait out this year, reapply again for the third time and see what happens.

 

            Again, I can recall a lot of the students who graduated from high school where I was the principal, a small percentage of them trying to get into med school here in the province and there were a lot of heartaches. Some of them just decided to change careers. I often wondered, if they were given that opportunity, it would have been nice to have them in the small areas in the province for us.

 

            Anyway, we'll get back on track here. Mr. Chairman, I have three minutes, I wonder if I could talk for three minutes without asking a question?

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: It wouldn't surprise me.

 

            AN HON. MEMBER: Tell a story about the other five.

 

            MR. DUNN: The other five, no, enough stories about that. It's a bit of frustration over the years. I guess going back to the Partnership Network, the first question I had, talking about people in the workforce, disabilities and so on, the question is have is, does this government view this as a non-essential service?

 

MS. REGAN: Our department funds organizations like the Collaborative Partnership Network with money that comes to us from the federal government to do job training. We think that - I personally have been there, it's phenomenal the service that's offered. The member for Northside-Westmount, his spouse is involved with them, they do amazing work.

 

            We want to make sure that Nova Scotians across the province in smaller communities get the kind of high-quality assistance you get from the Collaborative Partnership Network. We want to make sure that every Nova Scotian has the opportunity to access that.

 

            MR. DUNN: The information available to me is that this particular partnership has been successfully connecting people with disabilities with the right skills to the right jobs for over 20 years. My question is, does this government believe that a proven model of success should be compromised and potentially cost taxpayers more?

 

            MS. REGAN: I think where the member is going on this particular question is that we are currently in the process of consulting on our model for delivery of employment services throughout the province. This is a system that we inherited from the federal government when they devolved this to the province, I think it came to us in 2008. It's kind of a patchwork of different organizations and programs.

 

            Some of our organizations do unbelievable, stellar work with people with disabilities, with African Nova Scotians, with a variety of different job-seekers. Others are not as successful, so our aim at the end of the day is to make sure we're connecting Nova Scotians with jobs and, quite frankly, that businesses get the people they are looking for to work at their places of employment because we know there are gaps on both sides - sometimes there are people without jobs, and sometimes there are jobs without people.

 

            The Collaborative Partnership Network has been highly successful and I hold it in high regard for the work they have done with the disability community.

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: We will now revert to the NDP. We'll take a short break for two minutes. Thank you.

 

[12:59 p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]

 

            [1:03 p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please. I call the subcommittee back to order.

 

The honourable member for Sackville-Cobequid, you have one hour.

 

            HON. DAVID WILSON: Mr. Chairman, I want to welcome the minister and her staff.

 

I'm just trying to figure out where I'm going to go. There are a number of areas that I have a keen interest in, and maybe I'll mention a few of them. I know one area the minister knows I will probably ask her about, that's PTSD, but I'll wait for a little bit and I'll keep an eye on my time and I'll talk about that around WCB; I definitely want to cover, over the next hour, a couple of different areas that I've been hearing from as the Labour and Advanced Education Critic in our caucus, but I think all our members, and that is around the university tuition cap and the deregulation for the one year; I'm also going to talk a little bit on the legislation under your department; and, of course, Bill No. 100.

 

            I'm going to start with the tuition and post-secondary education and the concern that many young people have brought to our attention and been voicing. I'm sure the minister is quite aware about their concern around it. I'll get right into the lifting of the cap and it's my understanding that the rates for this coming September are already set, so really the cap, when it's lifted and is deregulated will be the 2016 school year - is that correct? Am I correct in that or does the university have an opportunity to readjust and change the tuition for the 2015-16 school year?

 

            MS. REGAN: The initial response that we've had back from the universities is that in most cases their tuition policy for the coming year has been set or is just about to be set. What we're hearing back, sort of at first blush, is that they don't anticipate an increase beyond the 3 per cent cap for that year. After that, they can do a market adjustment and I don't think you were with us when I gave the explanation to the Progressive Conservative caucus, but the universities would have the opportunity to do that as a one-time increase or they may decide to phase it in over a number of years to minimize the impact on students.

 

I totally understand that for students hearing about increases to tuition is difficult. I totally understand that and, quite frankly, I wish we were not in this position, but universities are facing, like I've been saying for months and months, a funding gap shortfall of tens of millions of dollars in short order and they cannot continue without making some changes, and I'm anticipating seeing those changes.

 

            It's the same for universities as it is for the provincial government. They're having to make tough choices and so are we, and I really wish that it did not impact on students this way, but that is in fact, unfortunately, where we are.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: So maybe I'll ask two questions and you can answer them. My understanding would be that they will not increase, would they - is there anything saying that they can't this year? If a university decides they can go ahead and change that, that's fine. I'm interested in your comment around the possibility of phasing an increase in. My understanding was the cap will be lifted for one year to do a market adjustment - and I'll ask you about your definition of a market adjustment later - a phase-in over a number of years, so are you indicating or suggesting that if a university, for example, wanted to raise its tuition by 20 per cent, 5 per cent over the next five years and also, once the cap is back on, that 5 per cent would be on top of the 3 per cent? I believe the cap is 3 per cent. Maybe a better explanation of the phase-in, does that mean making it multiple years of higher than 3 per cent if you're going to allow a phase-in?

 

            MS. REGAN: We and the universities have data from all across the country on what is being charged for similar programs. It would be highly unlikely that we would see increases in the range that you're talking about, but they can do market adjustments, spread it out over a number of years so that there isn't a big impact all at once, that would be their choice. What we are looking at is for universities to be charging similar tuitions for similar programs. If you have a business program at university - oh, I don't know, University X is charging significantly less than University A, then they would be able to move that tuition up to the tuition being charged by the higher-cost university and they may choose to do that over a number of years to minimize the impact on students.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: So doesn't that - what I'm trying to understand, if the cap, how it was told to Nova Scotia students is that you're going to lift the cap for one year, but now you're saying that they could phase that in. If they find a jurisdiction somewhere where a certain program is 8 per cent higher, 10 per cent higher, than Nova Scotia, are you saying that they could raise tuition 5 per cent over two years to catch up to that market adjustment but, on top of that, after one year, the 3per cent would kick in?

 

I hope you understand what I'm saying. It was my understanding it was for one year. Now we're hearing - well I'm hearing, sorry - that it can be phased in. Will that phase-in period allow universities to increase tuition by more than 3 per cent for more than one year?

 

            MS. REGAN: I think where some of the confusion is coming in is we said a "one-time" adjustment and people think that means that it's a one year. I think that's where we're getting the one in, first of all. Remember when the cap was put in place, there were some universities that had quite a bit higher tuition than others and I remember being in Opposition hearing from universities how they got jammed from that, right? So not only was there a difference at that time, then they were further disadvantaged because every year when the 3 per cent cap was applied to that difference, then the gap became wider over time. A university that had not put its fees up at the time the cap was brought in, they were disadvantaged for the better part of a decade because they hadn't had higher fees at that time, and that doesn't seem quite fair to me.

 

I don't know, have I answered - I don't think that I've answered all of your question there. So what you could see is several years where the increase would be more than 3 per cent if they were doing the one-time market adjustment but phasing it in over years to minimize the impact on students. Yes.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Thank you. That's new to me. That wasn't my understanding and I'm not sure if the students understand that. With that, would the university have to indicate to the department, the government, that we're using a phased-in approach to this? It wouldn't be let's raise it 4 per cent, 5 per cent this year, and then next year decide, no, we think market adjustment would have been more, we're going to phase in over the next year. When universities decide to raise the tuition more than the cap that is in place now, will they have to indicate that they want to utilize a phased-in approach to it?

 

            MS. REGAN: Yes, and we're in discussions with the universities, some of them right now, about what they want to do.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: So is there anything that the government would do and are you prepared to monitor the universities that may - I'm not saying that they are going to do this, but if it was found that one of the universities increased their tuition more than what you described right now, market adjustment, we know now that a certain degree, let's just say Arts degree, they will put an increase of 5 per cent or market value or market adjustment would have been about a 5 per cent increase and they went to 10 per cent - is there anything that the government and your department, and yourself as minister, would you step in, and can you step in to instruct that university that they can't raise that much? Do they have to quantify the reason they are increasing it to meet market adjustment?

 

            MS. REGAN: We've told them that they can do this one-time market adjustment, they can phase it in, but that's so they can bring themselves up to similar programs and, quite frankly, I will be monitoring them and I want to be clear about that. I believe I've said that in the House. The best way to keep the universities sort of under control, if you think that, clearly the member is saying that he thinks they may go hog-wild, but some people are implying that they might go hog-wild with increases.

 

            What I would say is if that happens, students will vote with their feet. They're not going to pay fees that they do not feel the program is worth, and so universities watch each other like hawks. They watch what other programs charge for, their tuitions, and if there are fees that are way out of whack, I will certainly be in touch with the university if they're telling us they want to do that. But more importantly, I would think, students will let the university know by their response by choice not to go there.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: I would agree to a certain extent to that, but let me remind the minister, we're talking about students who are coming out of high school, many of them are applying to university; some students apply to many hoping they'll just get into one and sometimes they only get into one. They're limited, some students are - I'm not saying all of them - to certain universities and I think there is an onus on the government to make sure that if you're going to allow universities to do this that you have a strong will and power to pull that back. I hear that you're going to monitor it, potentially you might step in, maybe not, but I still think there's an onus on the government to make sure that our young people are being watched and supported as they make their decision.

 

It's interesting, I know I've gotten recent stats from Memorial University in Newfoundland and Labrador, and just in a seven-year period they have seen an increase, because their tuition is lower than tuition here in Nova Scotia, and having a daughter who is going into Grade 12 and is already starting to look at universities, I'm becoming more aware of how much university is - and it's a lot more than when I went to Saint Mary's, I gotta tell you that much.

 

            They've seen an increase in just about seven years of about a 1,000 per cent increase in Nova Scotia students and that's past, so that's the environment we're in now. My fear is that we're going to see that increase even more, and then with some of the other changes that you made - and I'll get into those later around student debt relief that if they choose to leave the province they're not going to benefit from some of the programs that are in place - are you not concerned? Have you had any discussion on what the university in Newfoundland and Labrador, the impact it will have, having our universities have a market adjustment or allow for market adjustment? We want to keep our Nova Scotia students here. We're more apt to keep a Nova Scotia student here after post-secondary than someone who comes from away.

 

Are you concerned with the possibility of seeing that number increase even more - like I say, in a 10-year period 1,000 per cent increase of Nova Scotia students going to Newfoundland and Labrador to study?

 

            MS. REGAN: We're always concerned; we keep an eye on our numbers across faculties, across universities. Recently the Maritime Provinces Higher Education Commission came out with numbers for the Maritimes and there was a decline, I believe a 3 per cent, if I'm correct, but maybe not quite that much across the Maritimes. Nova Scotia was actually able to post a small increase in our number of students last year and I was quoting earlier from the Higher Education Quality Council of Ontario, which is called HEQCO, and I think it put out a report within the last month, called the Canadian Postsecondary Performance: IMPACT 2015 report. It ranked provinces in terms of access to higher education and, in fact, participating rates in Nova Scotia topped the country.

 

So even with really low cost tuition in Newfoundland and Labrador, in fact, Nova Scotia is ahead of them by a fair bit, by 4 percentage points in terms of participation rates, the percentage of 18- to 24-year-olds enrolled in PSE. So little Nova Scotia, with our 10 universities, is doing that and that may actually be a function to the fact that we have 10 universities and 12 colleges. Further to that, what I would say is Newfoundland and Labrador is in a challenging fiscal situation. They ran a massive deficit last year, and I haven't actually seen their budget for this year, but I expect with certain changes in energy that they are not in super great shape this year.

 

I'll be watching Newfoundland and Labrador in the coming years to see if they are able to continue offering that extremely low tuition because, quite frankly, they're the only jurisdiction that funds tuition, that funds universities more per capita than we do.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Mr. Chairman, the last bit on this topic is the fact that in Nova Scotia we've had periods where we had deregulation for tuition, and between 1994 and 2004 we've seen undergraduate tuition in Nova Scotia increase by 95 per cent for domestic students and 121 per cent for international students. Then regulation came in place and then the subsequent 10 years, we've seen an increase of 19.5 per cent and 34 per cent, so I think regulation is there to help keep tuition at a level that's acceptable, and if history dictates anything, I'm concerned with deregulation. I was going to say that I know it's for a year, but now I know it could be for a number of years if they choose to go that way. Anyway, I'm going to go to the Debt Cap Program.

 

            I know under the former government there was a program brought in that if a Nova Scotia student accumulated $28,500 in debt in the four years, the remainder of any debt would be forgiven. I understand that you introduced the Loan Forgiveness Program which offers relief to students following their completion of a four-year degree program and they need to be a Nova Scotian in a Nova Scotia university. I'm wondering if you could clarify the difference between those two programs, or is the Debt Cap Program that was introduced a number of years ago, is that the Loan Forgiveness Program that you were talking about?

 

            MS. REGAN: Yes, that is the Loan Forgiveness Program. It's just that, quite frankly, every time I mention the Debt Cap Program, people looked at me with a blank stare. They had no idea what the Debt Cap Program was and kudos to the former government for bringing it in but I was in that briefing and I walked away from it going, what was that? It's a Loan Forgiveness Program is what it is, and we though it should be called what it was.

 

            When we rolled that out, I was very clear, I didn't want to make people think it was a new program, that part was just renaming it. We re-profiled it so that it helps Nova Scotia students studying at Nova Scotia institutions - and we added another part to it which was the students with disabilities part which allows them to study at university and take up to 10 years to do their program. Often it takes students with disabilities longer to do programs because they take a reduced course load and they can have the full portion of their provincial student loan taken off upon graduation at that 10-year point.

            If it takes them longer than that to do it they can get the zero per cent interest, the same with the other one if it takes them longer. Typically it's four years if it's a four-year degree, if it takes them longer than that then they can get the zero per cent for the other years, but the first four years they would get that.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: So the debt level remains the same, the $28.5 - was that figure changed at all? I don't believe I was the critic at the time (Interruption) Okay, there's no change, that's fine.

 

I said I was off the tuition, but I lifted my paper and I forgot I kept writing. I do have a couple more on tuition and it's around the cap - when it is put back in place it will no longer be in place for students outside Nova Scotia, and I had the figure with me and I don't recall it, I had the figure and the percentage of students in Nova Scotia in our 10 universities and colleges who are from outside. Knowing our challenge on retaining young people here, I believe we're going to be the first jurisdiction in Canada that will impose, or remove or impose, whatever way you explain it, treating these students differently than Nova Scotian students.

 

            I talked with many of them, many of them are on the student leadership groups that meet with the caucuses and the majority of them are from outside Nova Scotia. Why would we put ourselves in a position to be the only jurisdiction that is going to treat other Canadian students differently than Nova Scotia students? In return, would you not think that now our students are going to be penalized by other jurisdictions? Won't other jurisdictions say look what Nova Scotia did, maybe we'll do the same?

 

            Maybe you can give me the rationale why we're going to treat those students differently. I don't think that's a positive move and we may see a drop, I believe we'll see a drop in students from outside Nova Scotia coming to our 10 universities. Newfoundland and Labrador, I don't think they'll have that problem because they have one university, we have 10. Can you give me a little bit of the rationale of why we're going to treat these students differently than Nova Scotia students?

 

            MS. REGAN: I would just like to point out that Quebec actually currently has differential fees for out-of-province students. Some people have not realized, I think it was sort of phrased somewhere that we were the only English-speaking province, which is cute but quite frankly the fact is that Quebec is a province and they currently do that.

 

            Other provinces deliver a similar impact in a different way, so you have Ontario, which has a new program which is a program off of taxes for students who come from families that make, I think, less than $150,000 a year. They're rewarding their students in a different way - there are a number of different ways to do this.

 

            One of the things that not everyone realizes is that the federal government gives us transfers based not on how many students we educate here, but on our population. Although we're a net importer of students, we don't get any federal funding for that so Nova Scotia taxpayers are paying the extra cost for those out-of-province students. Don't get me wrong, we love having them here. In my view, they add to the province. As a person who did not grow up in Nova Scotia and came here as a young person - not to go to school but shortly after graduation, I can tell you that Nova Scotians are warm and welcoming to young people who come here.

 

            But it is a significant cost for Nova Scotia to educate students from other provinces. Once again I will go back to what I have said previously, which is universities will have to be extremely careful about how they do this. If they raise tuitions beyond what the marketplace will bear, students will walk with their feet, vote with their feet, and they will see an impact on their tuition. We will be meeting with the presidents later in June to work through how exactly this will look for each of them.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: A couple of comments on that. The first is, they vote but these outside students won't be voting in Nova Scotia, so there's no fear there. But, I have to say the retention rate for students and young people in Quebec, for that province, is a heck of a lot more than the rate that we have, and they don't have the challenges we have. They don't have the out-migration that we have, they don't have the depressed economic environment that is only going to change, like in the Ivany report, if we can increase our population, if we can attract immigrants, and if we can attract our graduates to stay here.

 

So I wouldn't put too much weight in what Quebec is doing because they are very successful in many areas, and retention of their young people is one area that I wish we had the same rates that they have.

 

            On the mention of the federal government, I agree completely and I think the federal government needs to look at this to see how we change the way provinces receive funding, and I'm all in favour of getting rid of the current federal government, so maybe we're on the same page with that. I still am concerned with treating these students differently. It's that argument of health care across our country and being treated the same everywhere. I believe education should be the same, so I understand where you're going with that, but I disagree with the approach.

 

            MS. REGAN: I just wanted to let you know that most of the presidents that we have talked to have indicated they are not planning to use that part of the tuition policy at this point; I just wanted to let you know that.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Thank you, and I appreciate that, which kind of leads into my next area and that's, what will be, I think, here the minister just mentioned that the presidents of the universities say that they won't treat them differently, but they still will have the power to do that, and that's a concern, and the power to the universities, I mean the administration and those who make the decisions is definitely going to change also with the current piece of legislation that you brought in and that's of course, Bill No. 100.

 

Students and faculty are very concerned with this piece of legislation dealing with the revitalization plan process legislation and it's, in our view, and I've seen some recent news releases, I believe last evening and today, that those groups, students and the faculty, feel that this is definitely an attack on their rights under the collective agreement and I'm wondering why, under the accountability Act that you introduced would you use such a heavy hand dealing with the labour aspect of university? Maybe you have a comment on that.

 

            MS. REGAN: This legislation is about holding universities accountable and giving them a tool of last resort to restructure if they're in serious financial trouble. I want to emphasize that last phrase "it's a tool of last resort." The bill is basically composed of two parts. The first part deals with the accountability and the fact that we will get more financial accounting on a common template for the universities. Municipal Affairs has a dashboard where they can plot out what's going on with municipalities and they can actually quantify when a municipality is getting into trouble. This is what we're aiming to do with the universities as well, so that we have a warning - it's an early warning system, basically, for the universities. To me, that's the heart and soul of that piece of legislation.

 

The second part should never be needed if the first part works. The first part, to me, was necessary. We are handing over hundreds of millions of dollars in money to our institutions and we expect them to manage it wisely, to the same standard basically that we would do it ourselves. It was clear to me, quite frankly, when I looked back at when we saw that institutions got into trouble in this province, that if that kind of legislation had been available within the past decades then successive governments would have known earlier on what was coming their way, but the problem was they'd get a phone call one day that said "Houston we have a problem." What we want to know is, long before Houston has a problem, we want to know about it.

 

            In my view, if that first part is used properly we should never need the second part of the legislation and it is only there as a last resort because, quite frankly, that second part a university could trigger the revitalization process under two circumstances - they could be looking at trends over the last number of years and realize that the trends are against them and they need to take some steps to restructure, or else they are going to end up in big financial trouble, so they can trigger it then.

 

You can't use that labour clause under that particular part, it is only if a university is in severe financial difficulties that they could ask that the labour clause be used and that would mean basically that they cannot pay their bills and they cannot meet payroll. At that point they would be in severe financial difficulty and rather than wait and have a process develop organically when and if this ever happens - and, again, it should not happen if the first part is working properly - but if that were to happen, and they were in bargaining at the time, then they could have that part of it, the labour part of it come into play. But it would be only under those limited circumstances and the fact that they would be in financial trouble has to be independently verified.

 

My concern was that if you had a university that was in dire straits, in extremis was the way that President Ivany put it the other day, a strike would, quite frankly, cripple the university and that would be the end of it. At this point all parts of the university community would need to be working together to make sure that the institution emerged from this situation intact, and this is simply to let that happen. The reason bargaining could continue, and it would be expected that it would, but we don't want an agreement signed in case it would contradict the ultimate agreement and as soon as the agreement was accepted then you're back to having your ability to strike or lockout, or any of those factors once again would come back into play.

 

For me this is a highly unlikely contingency but, unfortunately, we felt that it had to be in the legislation.

 

MR. BEN JESSOME: Mr. Chairman, on a point of clarification for the committee. I'd like the member opposite to explain why he thinks students would be against this type of legislation, namely because this is something that, as former student leader, we've been advocating for quite some time.

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: I would just like to point out that the time allotted now is for the NDP and I would like to leave it at that.

 

Mr. Wilson.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Thank you, and I'd love to eat into my time giving somewhat of an answer to that, but I won't - and I'm sure that member opposite will be hearing from student leaders in the near future about this.

 

I understand and I would agree with the first part of the legislation, the need for it. You're completely right, there are hundreds of millions of dollars going to these universities and they need to be accountable, but the one thing we want to ensure is that the government is following the rules, rights, legislation that is in place currently.

 

So my question around the second component to this piece of legislation, is it constitutional? I look at this piece of legislation similar to Bill No. 1, and we know that when Bill No. 1 was brought in there had been a Supreme Court decision and there were threats of suing the government or taking them to court, so my question is, have you done a scan to understand that this is constitutionally right, you're not against any rights here of workers, that you can proceed with this legislation? My fear is that they may come out again and say this legislation is like Bill No. 1, we may take the government to court. Have you done that work and did you get an opinion that you were okay to go forward with this?

 

            MS. REGAN: We have done our homework; I'm confident in this legislation. I want to be very clear on that front.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Our concern is that if a university finds themselves in difficulty and they can enact, especially Article 8, which prevents any grievance measures, that does concern me because you can put everything on hold and the rights of those workers at the university are no longer there, and I understand if the university is in financial dire straits there should be some protection to the workers and many of our universities have a substantial amount of equity, especially in buildings for example - tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars in assets sit on the campuses all across the province.

 

My concern is if they decide to go this route and indicate they're in a revitalization plan, then those rights of all those workers are, from our understanding of the piece of legislation, it doesn't matter what they've collectively agreed to prior, and if they had a grievance going through the process now that's no longer being able to go through. Are you not concerned that the workers who are providing the education to our students, there's no protection for them under the dire straits of maybe a revitalization plan?

 

            MS. REGAN: I'm just getting clarification from my ADM, Lora MacEachern who is subbing for Deputy Montgomery.

 

Just to clarify, the grievance part that would apply would be only grievances that were filed that applied to the revitalization plan. If they were grievances about other matters at the university, those could still continue. I wanted to be clear on that. I note that one of the student groups were concerned that financial reports won't be published, and I did want to speak to that. Universities, as well as being institutions in each province, also compete with one another, I mean compete with one another across the country. To actually publish that kind of information would be akin to publishing proprietary information for businesses.

 

            I just want to be clear that we're not doing that; we don't feel it's appropriate. It's for the same reason, for example, that I will be speaking against Bill C-377 at the federal level next week because that calls for unions to have to disclose their proprietary information. It intrudes on provincial rights and it could have a significant financial effect on smaller unions. So in the same way that I would protect unions from that kind of intrusion, I would also protect universities from that kind of intrusion. I do want to make a point because I did note that in the article.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: My fear is that we'll have a situation, and I hope it doesn't happen in the province, that the university may go through this revitalization, this potential merger with another university and then all the labour rights that I think should be given to those workers under this legislation would not be there.

 

            What I'm hearing from the minister is that she's quite comfortable that this would stand up to any Charter Rights, I believe - I believe that's what the minister said and maybe I'll frame it in that way. Is that the case - is that the stance of yourself, your department, and the government, that this legislation would stand up to a Charter challenge?

 

            MS. REGAN: Yes, that was definitely something that we asked our lawyers to look into while the legislation was being crafted. Your characterization of all the labour rights, I want to be clear, it is not all the labour rights, there is still the right to bargain during that time, there's a limited intrusion and I think that understanding the impact of a strike on a university and its finances and its reputation - it has a huge impact.

 

            If a university, in the unlikely event that a university is in extremis, is in dire financial straits and cannot meet its payroll, it is only under those circumstances that we would ever entertain this kind of change.

           

MR. DAVID WILSON: It's interesting, you indicate that they will be able to bargain, but this legislation definitely hinders the union and the workers in that process. I mean universities don't have essential service legislation like we have for health care workers, so really I think that's what this piece of legislation would turn into, an essential service legislation where they can't strike.

 

So they can bargain, but they can't strike - don't you feel that's an unfair advantage towards the university, against the union or the local that would be representing the workers at that time? I don't see how any bargaining unit would say, let's continue bargaining under these circumstances if they find themselves under this.

 

            MS. REGAN: As I have indicated, this is simply an extension of collective bargaining and the right to strike is back on the table the minute the revitalization plan is accepted. It's a limited period, and it's an extreme circumstance - and I want to underline that, it is an extreme circumstance. I don't foresee any of our universities being in this position in the near future, but I felt it was important to have this insurance plan there. I didn't think, if it should ever happen, that we want to be creating the process while we're in the middle of it.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: So was there any consultation done on that section of the legislation? Did you consult with anybody to come up with those clauses under Bill No. 100?

 

            MS. REGAN: Yes, we did consult with lawyers on it to make sure that in fact we were meeting our constitutional obligations.

 

            I do want to make the point, too, that throughout the revitalization process there is provision made for robust consultation with unions throughout the process. I mean their partners at the universities need to be consulted; the same with students throughout that process. In order to arrive at a plan, the unions would have to be part of the picture, absolutely.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: I would agree with that, but I would also agree that they should have been part of the process while you created this legislation. I don't feel by any means that the bargaining units that represent the workers of the university would suggest that this legislation, the first component of it, is not needed. I would think they would be more than willing because if their university is successful, if they are moving forward and being accountable and being successful, then that means they will benefit from that.

 

            I think you missed a huge opportunity by not including them in this and in the consultation prior to that, in consultation in creating the legislation. I think that is why you may start to see some of those bargaining units say this is not fair. Yes, afterwards - it's a bit late after the legislation is passed and I'm glad that that component is in there, but their rights will be severely limited once this passes.

 

            Anyway, I'll go on to the next one. I believe I have until 2:03 p.m.? Okay, so I have a few more minutes, and I want to go to a topic that the minister met with me on and that of course is PTSD and benefits under the WCB. I don't think I have to go into what my concerns are, but I will just quickly recap my concerns. I'm wondering if - and I know the minister has had some time now - I'm wondering, has the minister had any opportunity to look at the concern I have and potentially make a change?

 

            We know there is what I would describe as limited coverage under WCB benefits for an emergency responder who is diagnosed with PTSD. The challenge and the area that we know there needs to be some work done is that under the WCB the benefits awarded to someone who might be diagnosed with PTSD have to be ones diagnosed by a medical professional - nobody is arguing with that - but also that diagnosis needs to come from a single traumatic event and it needs to have taken place within the last year. Then an individual can process their claim and most likely be awarded some benefits.

 

            The challenge is the cumulative exposure to traumatic events over a career - it could be over a couple of years, it could be over 10 years, 20 years, we know that that definitely has an impact on an individual.

 

            I'm not blaming the government for the situation. I was in government as Minister of Health and Wellness, and I knew that there was coverage for PTSD but was unaware that it may be limited. I think it's because there is more awareness around PTSD now and more work is being done on what actually is PTSD, who is being affected by it, and I think with that we need to be able to move and change policy. I was made aware of this last summer, in August, that there were jurisdictions modifying their WCB benefits to recognize the cumulative exposure.

 

            With that brief explanation, I know I pretty much said the same thing to the minister and her staff in her meeting, I'm wondering, are you able to provide me any more information on if we could see an expansion of that benefit?

 

            MS. REGAN: I was so glad that you brought that issue to me because I think it's one of those issues that have been evolving in public consciousness and the WCB, and here in government, over the last number of years. I was able to meet with the Workers' Compensation Board about this particular issue and I raised with them the one-year issue that you had brought to us.

 

            I just want to clarify that the one year is one year from time of diagnosis, not from the incident. For example let's say someone was a first responder at, say, Swissair and these many years later began having difficulty and is diagnosed with PTSD. The one-year clock doesn't start until the time of diagnosis, it does not refer to the incident or any of the series of incidents along the way. So I wanted to clarify that with you because to me that is a big difference.

 

            One of the other things that the member and I discussed that particular day was not tracking PTSD as a subtype of physiological stress injury and, on a go-forward basis, Workers' Compensation will be in fact doing that, so I wanted to assure you of that.

 

            What I did indicate at the time of our meeting was that many first responders or municipalities don't subscribe to WCB and, at this point I have to be honest, we haven't had any of the groups that don't have WC coverage like, say, firefighters in Halifax, actually come to us and indicate that they want to be part of it. So that would sort of be a first part of being able to offer it to them because if they're not in the WCB plan - and just for those who aren't aware, not everyone is in WCB, there are some excluded professions, there are sizes of operations that have to do with it too. So, for example, firefighters in HRM are not part; I don't believe the police service is either, and so before we would entertain any changes we would certainly - we just simply haven't had any indication from them that they want to join the WCB plan, and I believe it has been that way since amalgamation that they haven't been part of it.

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Wilson, you have four minutes.

 

            MR. DAVID WILSON: I would agree with the minister, the firefighters and the police officers are self-regulating, which I understand, but I don't believe that should hinder moving forward with improving the benefit. If anything, that's a positive thing for the benefit because we know if you increase the benefit, or potentially how many people can get the benefit, I don't foresee in the near future Halifax Fire or Police saying we're going to get out of the - I think it would cost them too much money to join the plan. So that's why I'm arguing, or I'm advocating - I may not be arguing - the impact is not great.

 

            We're talking about correctional officers, we're talking about paramedics, and in the bill that I introduced, nurses and Children's Aid workers, people who are in the plan currently - I don't foresee that if tomorrow you decided to change the policy, the government's going to have to come up with $20 million to put into the plan. I hope you understand that point.

 

The fact is that it does not recognize cumulative exposure, and if you can't pinpoint a specific event. Swissair, September 2, 1998, I was called into work as a paramedic to go to the fire station because the units that were on were all out there hoping that they could help survivors of that crash. Unfortunately, we know that's not the case. But that incident left a huge impact on many first responders, people who were working in the fishing industry, people who just helped out. That would be the start of how someone would be diagnosed with PTSD over their career, and over my career I've seen many things and I count myself one of the lucky ones because I've had a break from that industry. I've been 11 years dealing with different trauma - and political trauma, and it is trauma at times. But I hope you understand that that's where the challenge is.

 

Specifically to that cumulative exposure, would you be willing to change that, knowing it won't have a big impact? It helps them in a small way, they have to go through treatment - getting benefits from WCB is not going to cure someone with PTSD but it will give them that opportunity - and I have to say that I do have a personal case where I know somebody is in limbo right now and is being forced to work because they have to get a paycheque. Would you look at that to make that change?

 

            MS. REGAN: I want to be clear that cumulative onset is covered. I want to be clear that if there are multiple events that is, in fact, covered. It doesn't have to be one single event. A response to multiple traumatic events that, while meeting the definition of traumatic, did not result in an acute reaction, those are covered. The accumulation of these events over time may result in a reaction to a final event that causes a psychological injury even if this event is not the most severe. In fact, cumulative onset is covered and I asked Workers' Compensation for some more information that, in fact, PTSD is approved twice as often as other psychological injuries. I just wanted you to be aware of that, that in fact it does have a higher approval rate than other psychological injuries.

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: Time.

 

MR. DAVID WILSON: Not even 30 seconds?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: No, not even 30 seconds. I'm sorry. We'll revert to the Progressive Conservative Party, and Mr. Dunn.

 

            HON. PAT DUNN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You sound like a former teacher I had years ago there, very strict, and I'm glad you are, sir, because it's nice to have my time. It's my job.

 

Going back to some questioning, and I'm going to try to stay with the labour part of it for the time being. I guess, between my questions and stories and the minister's answers and stories we'll get through this next hour. Although this in the labour part, it deals with education too. It is dealing with workplace safety - and I'm trying to think of the minister's panel on education which ended up with the Action Plan for Education 2015. I know there's a new citizenship program going on, but is there any course at the high school level that you might be aware of that works and teaches some of the principles dealing with workplace safety - I know in high school with our workshops and that type of thing there are all kinds of safety regulations and safety is taught, but the actual course curriculum?

 

            MS. REGAN: In fact, all Nova Scotia Grade 9 students do get workplace safety training. Also, those students who are enrolled in the O2 program - Options and Opportunities - they have further training in that particular program and every year I go to the French high school in my riding, École secondaire du Sommet and I speak to the O2 program because they bring speakers in to talk about their jobs, and so I often ask the teacher about the O2 program and the training they receive. They're all trained, the teachers, in delivering that program and they won't let the kids go out in the job site if they don't feel that they have taken the safety part of the training seriously. They're very strict with them.

 

            My son is about to go out into the summer job market, and I wish that the Grade 9 program had been around. He's not in O2 - he's in IB, but I wish he'd had the opportunity to take that workplace training before he went out into the work world. We talk about workplace safety at home, et cetera, but I'm not sure that without that training that a student would know how to spot a potential threat if you haven't done some of the work.

 

            My son-in-law, the one who is in med school - because we were talking about that earlier - comes from a fishing family, so he would have grown up with the concept of workplace safety because there is nothing more dangerous in this province than being out on a fishing boat. He would have grown up with that and would have known about how to have good workplace safety habits. My son hasn't had that opportunity, so it's taking those little teaching moments with your child throughout the day about workplace safety. I'm so pleased that we're offering that in Grade 9 and that the O2 program has it as well.

 

            MR. DUNN: I agree with you because I always thought it was very important and critical to have this as part of the curriculum in our high schools. I know even through the years as a student myself, workplace safety and regulations were not as important as they are today. There is more emphasis on it today.

 

            Throughout my teaching career, there was a slow shift in the emphasis towards safety regulations in the workforce, but I always thought there was never enough of it in the high school curriculum because school is over in June and students would hit the roads going into all kinds of various jobs.

 

            You mentioned the fishers. I have a number of in-laws who are in the fishing industry as far as lobster fishing, snow crab, and tuna. I've had the opportunity to be out with them, just to experience it, and I go every year. I'm really pleased with what I see with regard to safety on their boats. It's amazing how careful they are - there certainly was a time when it wasn't like that.

 

            Going back to when I was in high school, just a short couple of years ago, it was quite common, living in Trenton, with a railcar plant, when someone - it was very similar to the mining families and so on across the province - someone not liking school, having difficulty in school, turning 16, after maybe three years in Grades 7 and 8, you would be looking at an empty seat beside you on Monday morning, because they were down over the hill with a lunch can in the car works, and away they go. I had the opportunity to work in that industry after Grade 12 for a short time.

 

            I can recall a friend of mine losing a couple of fingers and a thumb, working on a machine that really he wasn't properly trained for, cutting plate steel. Once that happens, you just can't go back, you can't replace them. I could take up the next hour of various incidents, including myself, which I'm not going to, but the safety part of it was certainly not near what it is today.

 

            I'm going to ask a couple of questions dealing with the Apprenticeship and Trades Qualifications Act. This legislation will allow apprentices to get training more quickly and at less cost. I was very pleased when that legislation came forth - just making it easier for tradespeople to move in and out of Nova Scotia, head out West and so on.

 

            While this bill will make it easier for Nova Scotian tradespeople to come back, the big thing is having jobs here for them to come back to. Again, that's a very difficult task for the province, for the government, for industry, especially if the opportunity to come back to jobs with a comparable wage that they're making out in western Canada, which we know is not really going to happen.

 

            First of all - you can comment on this bill making it easier for Nova Scotia tradespeople to come back, and the second part of it is in order for them to come back, we have to have the jobs available for them. If the minister would make a comment on that, the fact that I believe the bill makes it easier for that in and out of the province, but again there doesn't seem to be a lot of jobs in the province for these people to come back to - and we all know all kinds of examples.

 

            A good friend of mine left last Fall to go to Cambridge Bay. He was running a plumbing business and due to the inactivity in the plumbing trade in Pictou County, he decided that at the age of 60 he better get out when he can, and he was able to accept a high-   paying job out in Cambridge Bay. Since that he has been offered about four different jobs in different parts of the West and I'm not so sure now that he will be back to Nova Scotia. He'll probably finish off his working career there. I guess in a way, you can't blame him for that.

 

I'm just looking for a comment about the easy transition, and then no jobs available.

 

            MS. REGAN: When we began doing agreements - and there is an agreement signed with Alberta - there is the Atlantic Apprenticeship Harmonization Project and then there is also a national harmonization project. Maybe I'll just talk about the harmonization project first.

 

            We've been working with the other provinces in Atlantic Canada to make sure that we could begin the process of harmonization, and so basically we had 13 jurisdictions across the country and they all had their own apprenticeship plans. So if you had started off as an apprentice in Nova Scotia and you ended up in Alberta, your course order, your block training, could be completely different. So you could be taking the plumbers trade, or any other trade, and you would start off with block A, block B, block C, but then you get into another jurisdiction and the blocks are reversed, they're in different orders, you're taking different things. It was very difficult to have labour mobility among the trades in the apprenticeship phase.

 

            So the Atlantic Apprenticeship Harmonization Project started off with 10 trades, and they were basically 10 of the most common trades, and we've already completed some of the trades. The first four are bricklayer, cook, construction electrician, and instrumentation and control technician. Then by early next year, it is expected apprenticeship in those trades will benefit from improvements, and by 2017 all 10 trades will be harmonized.

 

            When I went to some of the labour market ministers' meetings - when I started talking about what we were doing here in Atlantic Canada, what we were doing with Alberta, we saw a lot of interest from some of the other provinces, particularly I might say, British Columbia, which was starting the same work. They weren't quite as far advanced as we were, but it kind of caught fire there at the table - in a good way. So now we have a project rolling out across the country. It's a big country, there are a lot of people with irons in the fire, but the fact that provinces are willing to move forward on this, I think speaks volumes.

 

            Sometimes life in the trades can be quite mobile and we want to make sure that our tradespeople can move around the country easily. That's why we have Red Seal, but for the apprentices we want to make sure that they are able to move through their training seamlessly. When we talked about this originally, I think there were some concerns and people thought our people are going to be going out West to get training. We want to make sure that our young people are moving through their training in a timely manner. What was happening was that our young people were taking a couple of years longer to complete their training than the Canadian average and it wasn't because they aren't smart - they are. It wasn't because they aren't capable - they are. It was that they didn't always have the job and the schooling opportunities linked up, and so that's what we're trying to provide.

 

            The other thing we're doing with the agency is making sure that we up the involvement of employers because, simply put, without employers, apprenticeship doesn't exist. It's not like going to university or going to college where you can take your training without an employer there. You need an employer to show you how to do stuff. That's why they have oversight of the apprentices. So that was very important to us and so we're focusing a lot of effort now on getting more employers involved.

 

            That is why the apprenticeship agency is employer-led - because that is crucial to us. We're in the process of populating the boards that will, in fact, oversee the work and the changes that are happening to the apprenticeship system.

 

            MR. DUNN: Thank you for the answer. We're in tough economic times and there just doesn't seem to be enough economic activity occurring in the province to provide sufficient apprenticeship opportunities in Nova Scotia.

 

            MS. REGAN: We do have a number of the bigger projects coming on, obviously, like the shipbuilding and the Maritime Link, but as I travel the province - whether it's going to companies and visiting companies that we have contact with or whether it's visiting our various locations that have LAE connections, so whether it's a community college or one of our Careers Nova Scotia centres - what I'm struck by is the businesses that are looking at our workforce and they're doing some continuity planning, they're looking at their workforce, looking at the age of the workforce and they're getting ready to give young people opportunities.

 

            I remember going to the shipbuilding, in Shelburne, and we were there, and they know they're going to need some young people in short order. Having an apprenticeship agency that is able to help young people move through that process in a more timely manner is key to having industries throughout rural Nova Scotia thrive.

 

            MR. DUNN: I'm going to just ask one more question and pass it over to my colleague from Cape Breton for a couple of questions in a minute. I'm pretty sure I didn't ask this question earlier and, if I have, maybe just humour me and pretend I didn't and just go on with an answer - but I don't think I have.

 

We're always talking about working across departments and trying to improve things like education, working with Justice, Health and Wellness, Community Services and so on - is the Department of Labour and Advanced Education ever involved in working with high school guidance offices with regard to the labour market?

 

            The reason I'm asking that is - I think it's so important and so critical for guidance counsellors to have professional development so they can pass on a lot of options to high school students. I believe in your time and my time basically they would say, what university do you want to go to? I've always felt that there were too many students going to university who perhaps could have been extremely successful in other areas, in other careers. I guess my question is, is there any connect or any program, or will there be, or is that something that might be on the table? I'll let you answer that and maybe I may or may not have a follow-up.

 

            MS. REGAN: That is part of what Careers Nova Scotia does - link up that career guidance in the schools, but I don't think we've been doing a particularly good job at it. I would be the first person to admit that. I think our guidance counsellors in school are spending an awful lot of time on social issues. This is not a criticism - it is just as I see it. This is what I see, and that means they don't have time to do career planning with young people.

 

            What we do know is the number one place where young people get their information about careers is actually from their mums. That means we mothers have to be up on things and that's not always possible. I would say that we have begun meeting with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development about this particular issue and I expect to see more come of it. We're just in the early stages on that.

 

            One of the things - I don't know if I've told the honourable member this story - we have a book called High Demand Career Opportunities in Nova Scotia that is put out every year. It outlines the careers and the sectors where there is a high demand for labour and gives information about expected salaries, the training, et cetera, and describes what the job is. I did send a couple of these booklets to every MLA's office because I thought it was useful and if you came in contact with young people - or if you're, quite frankly, in contact with their parents - it might be a good thing to talk about.

 

            That booklet is also available online, so people can access it online. You don't have to have the physical book, but last summer as we got into the car to visit family in Ontario, as we drove away I turned to my son in the backseat and handed him a copy of this booklet and I said "Turn to Page 1." So I had a captive audience and I had my iPad with me so we could search out what institution offers this kind of training, that kind of thing.

 

            We had a couple of days on the road where I had a captive audience and we could work our way through the booklet. And I kind of viewed it as a recipe book where if you're going through a recipe book you say, "Oh, that has fish paste in it. I don't like fish paste, I'm going to flip that recipe." So you could look at a job and say, "I don't think I'm good at blood, so I don't think I'm going to do health sciences, but let me look at another one."

 

            So we were able to move through the book and it helped him clarify as he was going into his final year of high school what he wanted to do. He had been kicking a number of disparate things around. If you have a kid who knows what they want to do, it's really easy - and my oldest was like that - but if you have a child who has a number of different interests, it's quite difficult. This helped him clarify his thoughts on that, and I found it extraordinarily helpful.

 

            I have, and the member for Kings South, and the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board, and the member for Fairview-Clayton Park have all had events where we had folks from Careers Nova Scotia come in and talk about high demand careers for the province. I'd go in or a deputy minister would go in and talk about some of the high-demand careers in the province and then we'd get further information - how to help your child choose a career from the folks at Skills and Learning. So I think for the people who attended it was extraordinarily helpful to do that.

 

            I'll just put the offer out there, that if any of the members would like us to come into their ridings and do that kind of presentation, I'm more than happy to do it at your local high school. I just think that we know that there are certain high-demand sectors like ICT, financial services, oceans technology, and health and I think the other one is entrepreneurship - and those are high demand.

 

            So within that, your child might be interested in - let's say they're interested in taking an English degree. That doesn't mean that they can't have a career in one of those high-demand careers, but it may mean that they may want to get some hands-on learning that will serve them well in that particular sector. So if they want to work in oceans technology, they could end up doing technical writing or something like that in that career sector. So just because you're doing something in the humanities, which I view personally as a very valuable degree, it can be translated into some of those high-demand careers.

 

            MR. DUNN: Thank you for that answer. I'm going to go back to that high-demand career opportunity book - I'm going to let my colleague from Cape Breton ask a couple of questions, but I'd like to go back to make a couple more comments about that after.

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. MacLeod.

 

            HON. ALFIE MACLEOD: Thank you for the opportunity to ask a few questions. I have some short snappers, I hope. You may have answered some of these questions earlier today and I apologize for that. The information that I've received is relatively new and it's about the Injured Workers Association of Cape Breton. I know you're surprised.

 

            There seem to be some challenges within that organization. They've done a lot of work for a lot of people and they've had a pretty good track record over the years. They tell me that they were notified that they were not going to be receiving their funding this year - would you like to make a comment on that?

 

             MS. REGAN: I'm just trying to remember the particular timeline. The two injured workers' associations - Pictou County Injured Workers Association and the Cape Breton Injured Workers Association - notified the department last year that they had gone through all their money. They were looking for extra financial assistance. What had happened was that the previous government had changed how they were paying them. They had moved them from quarterly payments to three payments - it was the same total amount, but they had just changed the payment schedule.

 

            So they had not realized that they had received more money than usual and had gone through their entire allotment early and so they were looking for assistance. At that point I was concerned because it should have been apparent that they had received more money coming in on those three payments instead of getting less money on four payments.

 

            At that point we did a financial review of the two organizations and the Pictou County Injured Workers Association came through - there were no problems at all. There were a lot of problems with the Cape Breton Injured Workers Association. At that point we outlined what the concerns were - things like cash payments, et cetera - and then we proceeded to work with them over a period of about almost a year trying to get them to the point where they could run an effective organization.

 

            We brought in accountants to work with them to explain to them what we expected and, unfortunately, at the end of the day they still could not provide documentation for simple things that I would expect an organization to do if we were going to fund them to the tune of $100,000 a year. That would be things like: How do you spend your money? How many people are you serving? How are you helping them? We still, at this point, have not received those answers. Based on that, I cannot continue funding an organization that can't provide us with that simple information.

 

            It would have been my preference that we could have worked with them. This is not about saving money in any way, shape, or form. It's about making sure that the organizations we fund are being run effectively and that's all.

 

            MR. MACLEOD: Thank you for that explanation. According to the information that was supplied to me, they say that they only had three days' notice of the funding being cut off; that they received a notification on March 27^th that the funding would be cut off as of March 31^st. I wonder, could the minister supply some explanation as to how correct that may be?

 

            MS. REGAN: We sent them numerous letters, had numerous phone calls, explaining to them what was required for them to come into compliance. This should not have been a surprise at all. We really tried to make it work and that would have been my preference, but in the end we can't continue to fund an organization that will not give us even the most limited financial information about how they're spending their money, how many people they're helping, and how they're actually helping them.

 

            MR. MACLEOD: Thank you for that explanation. In a document that was sent by the associate deputy minister, it says in summary: Based on a review we do not consider the Cape Breton Injured Workers Association has made significant progress and the contract, we will not be renewing. We will be providing a $14,000 payment before the end of March 2015 on a voluntary basis only, and not as part of the province's current contract obligations.

 

            So part of what they're saying to us - and, again, there are always two sides; well, actually there are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth - I'm trying to figure out if they have outstanding obligations and they say that they didn't receive that last payment of $14,000 from your department. I wonder, have you any comment on that?

 

            MS. REGAN: We've made it clear to the injured workers that any outstanding bills that they have should be sent to the department and the department will pay those bills. That's out of the $14,000.

 

            MR. MACLEOD: Thank you for that answer. Maybe later you can supply me a name that I can continue that part of the conversation on without tying up this process too much longer.

 

            My final question to you on this matter is this, what would it take for this organization to get back in the proper graces of the department, because the work that they do for the injured workers is very important and they have done some good work over the years. Is there a way that you could provide them, and me, documentation of how we could restart the process, if that's possible? It may not even be possible in the minds of people in your department - and that would be helpful to know as well.

 

            MS. REGAN: They would have to comply with the terms of the financial review, which we've been clear with them on numerous occasions that they had to do that. They would have to give us some clarity around who is actually heading up the organization because we've had multiple communications with multiple different individuals and it is not clear to us that they have a fully functioning board, et cetera.

 

            MR. MACLEOD: I want to thank you for your answers and I would ask that maybe, at a future date, you and I could sit down and have more frank discussion so that we can get this on the right track for the injured workers that they serve - not necessarily the board members themselves.

 

            MS. REGAN: Absolutely. I would like to make sure that any other injured workers should know that they can contact the office of the worker counsellor and the Workers' Advisers Program if they need assistance during this time.

 

            MR. MACLEOD: Thank you for that and, again, I'm aware of those avenues. I just want to thank you for your frankness on this subject and I look forward to maybe having a further chat at a further time. Now, if I could, I'd like to turn it over to my colleague from Pictou East.

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: I believe Mr. Dunn had a last question regarding the high- demand career opportunity he wanted to get back to.

 

            HON. PAT DUNN: I will eventually, Mr. Chairman. I'll let my colleague from Pictou East ask a couple of questions and then I'll go back to that.

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Houston.

 

            MR. TIM HOUSTON: I thank the minister for her time this afternoon. I want to ask a question - I've been in correspondence with an injured vet. He is a young vet in his 20s and he sustained a spinal cord injury in Afghanistan. He is a university graduate and he is actually a graduate of the Bachelor of Education program at Memorial University. He is in Ontario right now and he's wondering about opportunities for him to come back to Nova Scotia and maybe seek opportunities with the provincial government. There are programs like Helmets to Hardhats, which tend to focus more on tradespeople and stuff like that, which wouldn't really be applicable for him. I wonder if you're aware of any kinds of programs in the provincial government that maybe is a place where I could steer this young man to seek opportunities within the government.

 

            MS. REGAN: That would be a question more appropriately asked of the Minister of the Public Service Commission, but I do believe that there is a program for persons with disabilities within - you said he was an injured vet, right? - the Public Service. We could put you in touch with the PSC minister. I do believe there is something.

 

            MR. HOUSTON: I thought it might be, but the Department of Labour and Advanced Education was up so I thought, why not try? (Laughter)

 

The other one - this may not fall under the minister's department as well. I don't know if the minister is familiar with the Futureworx program for training. Futureworx runs a program for training home care workers - it's one of their programs specifically. At the moment they're just ready to start a session and it is way oversubscribed. They actually have enough applicants - obviously with Convergys closing in Pictou County, it's going to push a lot of people to retrain themselves. In particular from the Convergys situation there are a lot of former Convergys workers who would like to take that course at Futureworx.

 

            I don't really know if it would fall under your department or if it would be an option to seek funding for them to run a second program at the same time, or just maybe some thoughts of the minister on how we can open up some opportunities for those people to get some training to move on with another phase.

 

            MS. REGAN: Futureworx would be funded by Employment Nova Scotia-Careers Nova Scotia. We can absolutely take a look at that. Flip an email to my EA or to me and we'll sit down and take a look and see if it's possible - whether there is funding available for that.

 

            MR. HOUSTON: That's all I have, Mr. Chairman. It's the first time I meant it when I said I have two quick questions. Thank you, minister.

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dunn.

 

            HON. PAT DUNN: Going back to our previous conversation we had dealing with high-demand career opportunities, I believe you said that - I guess my first question would be, that text comes out every year?

 

            MS. REGAN: It's every year or two years. The thing is, there are two dates on it like 2014-15, so I'm just not sure whether it's renewed every year or every other year.

 

            MR. DUNN: Just another quick question - this particular edition every year or two years, basically where do they go? They're published and then from that point what happens? It's just leading me to a third question.

 

            MS. REGAN: They would be distributed quite widely. My ADM just pointed out that actually if you check in The Chronicle Herald, I think it's every Saturday, you'll see that there is a different career profiled in The Chronicle Herald each weekend. So if you want to read it slowly you could get it each week, but it is available online so anyone can access it, but it's also distributed in a number of different places - community colleges and things like that.

 

            I'm not sure of the exact distribution of where it would go, but what I would say is MLAs can request some copies for their offices. I did send them out to all the MLAs last year when they came out. I just find it's extraordinarily useful. To me, it's good information that parents might want to have when they're sitting down with a child. You don't have to sit down in Grade 12 - ideally you'll be doing it before then, before your child is entering high school because that's when they have to choose courses, and you want to make sure that they don't exclude any possibilities. So one of the big things that we took away from the workforce of the future project was that we really need to emphasize math and the study of math, which is music to the ears of my director of finance here.

 

            Really, these days, if you want to be a tradesperson you need math. You need math for so many careers and so many careers you might not think you need math for, but you actually do. I thought that I was never going to need math. I was going off to do a career in television, and television news, and you start covering stories and you do need math just to figure out - a budgeting story, right? Then I began directing and I had to deal with camera angles, which is all math. Then I had to time shows. So you're adding to base 60 on the fly because we did have some technology that helped us with it, but not always. So I ended up having to use math when I was pretty sure growing up I hated math and I was never going to use this thing again. I have to tell you that it became clear to me later on that I wasn't as bad at math as I thought I was, and that math is very important and extremely useful.

 

            So if I were to give any young person any advice as they headed into their high school years, I would say do whatever you need to do and that could be extra help, et cetera, but make sure you get your math courses because that will open doors to you that you don't want to have closed.

 

            MR. DUNN: Following up there on the math, I agree with you. It has certainly opened doors. The minister's action plan is going to integrate a third course - a compulsory math course - in the high school. So there is one side of me saying, ouch, I've known so many students who struggle to get two math credits in order to graduate, now they're adding a third. I think the answer is what's happening in the early grades - or what will be happening in the early grades. So with more emphasis placed on mathematics and literacy in the early stages, I think we will see in time a change where, as students get into middle school and high school, that won't be as much of a challenge as it has been in the past number of years.

 

            Going back one last time to that particular high-demand career opportunity we're talking about - the reason why I was zeroing in on that is I think it would be such a useful tool for schools and a useful tool for guidance counsellors to have that at their fingertips.

 

            You made the comment earlier, that I agree with 100 per cent, that it seems now that guidance counsellors - and this was occurring when I was in the schools - are dealing with more of the social, emotional type of thing, and assessments. There is very little time left over for career opportunity get-togethers and so on. It is happening, everything else, but I think a lot of their time is taken up, plus we don't have an overabundance of guidance counsellors in the schools, period. As you keep going lower in the school system - middle school and elementary - even less.

 

            So that would be great information to have or to have it as part of - every year teachers have that professional development day in the Fall. I guess it always falls on the first day of hunting season, so I'm sure everyone is taking their PD that day. Anyway, that would be great even on a day like that, a workshop with that particular book and someone from the Department of Labour and Advanced Education, or maybe putting on a workshop and going through that because it's such valuable information for them that they could take back with them and then take it from there. I think it would be invaluable. Anyway, that's why I was kind of hanging onto that, because I don't think we've been doing a great job at our high schools.

 

            MS. REGAN: I'd have to say it's a place where we could definitely improve. When you were talking about having people in to talk about the various careers, I have to say I was lucky. The high school I went to back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, we had something called "Symposium Day" and it was actually something that the student council decided to do. It was like going to university for a day in the sense that everybody could sign up for different courses and the courses were sort of divided into different areas, but there were a number of different careers you could learn about. There were some avocations.

 

            I think we did four of them throughout the day and two of them have stuck with me. I don't remember what the other two were, but one of them was I took a fencing lesson, which was awesome - and one of these days I'm going back to it. The other thing I remember going to was in the career side, they brought in a writer who worked on some CBC radio programs. He talked about his job - his life as a writer, and that kind of fired me up. I was already heading down that path already, but I thought that was a really useful exercise for the students.

 

            I come from a farming community in Ontario, so a lot of the students that I went to school with, a lot of them were going to follow in their parents' footsteps and become farmers, but some of us weren't, and if you didn't have the opportunities to be exposed to a wide variety of careers, you might not have considered something that you would be ideally suited for. It is the challenge for parents - how do you find something that ignites your child's passion and will reward them so they can live off of that passion?

 

            It's a tough job for parents to sort of struggle through all the information and to figure it out. I just try to invite neat people home for dinner so they can talk to my children about what they do and you hope somewhere along the way something will sort of fire your child's interest.

 

            I had one child who knew from the time she was 11 that she was going to be a lawyer and she's just finishing up her articles, but those kids are few and far between. I think most of us struggle. When I went off to university I had no idea what I was going to be. I knew what I wasn't going to be. But I went off to do a degree in the humanities and because I was in a co-op program I had the chance to try out a couple of different careers along the way and found something that I was passionate about, and really that's what we want for our kids.

 

            MR. DUNN: Don't feel bad, minister - I keep telling my children I don't know what I want to do.

 

Maybe two more questions and I'll give you time to make some closing comments. I can remember back in, I don't know if it was 2007 or 2008, I had a constituent come to me, and then I've heard periodically since then and I've been hearing of it lately, it's people taking these courses and trying to get their certification and sometimes you will run into a situation where - I'll just throw out a figure - let's say there are 30 in the class and maybe somewhere between 20 to 25 or maybe there is an 80 per cent failure rate. Can you give me any information on that if you have dealt with that type of thing or if the Department of Labour and Advanced Education has dealt with that - has that been a problem?

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: Just for clarification, there is about nine minutes left for the Progressive Conservative Party and then 18 minutes left to close off the four hours. The NDP aren't here, so there is lots of time for closing.

 

            MS. REGAN: Is this the case you raised with me the other day?

 

            MR. DUNN: No.

 

            MS. REGAN: Then someone else raised a similar concern. What I said was by all means send me the information about where it is. We can absolutely look into it because we want to make sure that when our students are paying for courses, they're getting good value for their money. So if they're not getting the training they need, we need to know about that.

 

            MR. DUNN: Again, when I hear about this, it sort of raises a red flag where because of my previous experience it just doesn't balance - the old scales don't balance right. There's something just not right - and do you want to comment again on this?

 

            MS. REGAN: Absolutely, just bring that to our attention and we'll be happy to look into it. Just in terms of the High Opportunity guide, it's put out every two years - I was right - and we're updating and expanding it this year. There is a distribution of about 3,000 and 500 them are in French. Every guidance counsellor in the province gets a copy.

 

            So it is out there, but I'm sure a lot of us get a lot of things in the mail. We can send you the link. I actually think it's a great thing to have up on your website as an MLA, that this is a place where people can go to find out career information because I think it's really important. We want our young people to be successful and we want them to choose careers where we know there are opportunities here in the province. That will make settling down here so much easier for them.

 

            MR. DUNN: I would enjoy having the link to that, but I also want a signed copy from the minister when one is available. (Laughter)

 

I understand the department has hired three business consultants and my question is, could you describe specifically, just basically, what are these consultants doing?

 

            MS. REGAN: Those three business consultants meet directly with businesses and they find out what the workplace needs are. They're like a navigator in that they connect them with the departments that they need, with the programs that they need to help them along the way.

 

            They can assist businesses with HR planning in terms of researching and identifying promising practices and preparing industry for change and innovation, and leveraging partnerships and labour market information to facilitate the matching of supply and demand. They're also to help with attraction and retention, so they should enhance industry's ability to recruit and retain skilled workers, and marketing focused on recruiting from under-represented groups, and creating welcoming work spaces and training, identifying industry-specific training needs that foster innovation and productivity, and promoting skills training within the workplace. They're incredibly busy. They're actually, I think, one of the best things that we've done in quite a while. We're very pleased with what we're seeing come out of them.

 

            MR. DUNN: There is university debt written off every year - and I'm not interested in the figure - I read something here just recently, and I guess my question would be, is this debt increasing every year - is it getting higher every year?

 

            MS. REGAN: It's fairly static, but it does sort of go up and down within a narrow band and so the most recent one I think we saw go up, but the issue was that those loans - and they wouldn't just be university loans, they would be community college and private career colleges - so there would be a certain period of time that would elapse before those unpaid loans would be written off and we continue to try to collect the money. It's just that for accounting reasons, none of which I ever understand, but we have to write them off after a certain period.

 

            So they're written off after there has been a period of inactivity on that account, so that we've had no payments or anything like that, but the most recent writeoffs I noticed went up a bit and those would be for the loans that went into payment during the 2008-09 period - in that period when the recession was hitting hardest, so we did see an uptick there.

           

MR. CHAIRMAN: Two minutes, Mr. Dunn.

 

MR. DUNN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just finishing off the last two minutes, I do have some other questions here that I could ask, but I think that'll do. I can recall when I was, prior to this afternoon's proceedings, out in the hallway that you were mentioning to one of your colleagues that you were going to buy supper for all your staff after this was over. (Laughter) I just happened to overhear that, and so I'm just wondering if I might get an invite also to this. If you can answer that question, I'll probably finish with that.

 

            MS. REGAN: Absolutely. Absolutely, I'd love to have the honourable member along for dinner with the staff. I guess I'm into my closing remarks now, or do we have one minute left?

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: The time allotted for the PC Party will expire in about a minute. I see no NDP here, so I would leave it to your discretion, or actually to the PC Party if they would like to use that time - 18 minutes left.

 

            MR. DUNN: I can certainly use that last minute and then I'll pass it over for closing remarks. I want to thank the minister again. As I mentioned earlier, before we started - I thank the minister for the answers, and I thank your staff again. It's an incredible job and a very demanding job that they do, especially in the Department of Labour and Advanced Education. Hopefully we'll keep doing the great things that we are doing and we'll turn this province around and things will be much better, and we'll have some people coming back home who have been away for a number of years, and we'll begin to see some light at the end of the tunnel and see the province start to prosper.

 

With those final words, I will finish. Thank you.

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: Seeing no NDP are here, you have 18 minutes left if you would entertain some questions from the Liberal Party. If you'd like I can give you some notice of some time left for closing remarks.

 

Mr. Farrell.

 

            MR. TERRY FARRELL: Good afternoon, Minister Regan. I had some concerns arise in my constituency with respect to the Workers' Compensation Board - in particular the cost of the premiums. In the current climate, I know that businesses see sometimes the costs of those premiums as an impediment to doing business and particularly if you look at the information and the directions that have been given by the One Nova Scotia report and the Tax and Regulatory Review report, and as government the obligation that we have to do everything we can do to make it easier for businesses to function in Nova Scotia.

 

            I thought I might give you the opportunity to explain a little bit the overall financial situation at the Workers' Compensation Board and some of the justification for the current premiums and what business might be able to look forward to with respect to workers' compensation premiums.

 

            MS. REGAN: I'm happy to speak to this. The Workers' Compensation Board has an important role to play to look after our injured workers here in the province. Over the years, political decisions by a variety of governments have sort of interfered, quite frankly, with the WCB premiums that were paid; in fact, they were kept artificially low for a number of years.

 

            So in the early 1990s, the Workers' Compensation Board was only funded, I think, 26 or 29 per cent of its liability. Since that time, Workers' Compensation has made great strides trying to get itself back to 100 per cent funded so that if it had to pay out all of its liabilities at one time - it's one of those accounting things, the same with pensions. It's not quite where it needs to be. It has made great strides.

 

            The Workers' Compensation Board is now 77 per cent funded as of this year, so they've actually made huge strides in the last four or five years to return itself almost to full funding. Unfortunately, as a result of that, Nova Scotia businesses have borne a higher cost now, but it is because of decisions that were made previous to that, where rates were kept artificially low, and it is tough because there are different groups that want to see things change.

 

            So workers who have been injured have not seen their payments rise during this period. New groups have - I think with one exception - not been added to that. So in fact, the previous government in 2012, in their Speech from the Throne, for example, committed to adding more cancers to its list of presumptive cancers for firefighters, and they didn't do it. I assume that's because they looked at what the cost was and what it would mean to that.

 

            It is an unfortunate truth of doing business in Nova Scotia that these rates are higher than they are in other provinces, but like all the difficult work that we're doing to return Nova Scotia to a balanced situation, it is unfortunately necessary.

 

            MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Farrell, you have a follow-up on that?

 

            MR. FARRELL: With respect to - I see the Workers' Compensation program as a wonderful protection for employers and I think if they fully grasped the protection that they were getting from that, they would understand that even though it is expensive that they do get a good deal of value out of it.

 

            What about measures the department might be undertaking with respect to safety? Are there things there that are being targeted towards particular high-risk injuries? I understand that claims do have a role in the calculation of the premiums process. What is the department doing with respect to measures to lower the risk in certain businesses or certain sectors?

 

            MS. REGAN: We actually work very closely with industry to improve our workplace safety. So one of the things that I talked about in my opening remarks was that over the last year for example, a year ago I pledged that we would double our number of workplace targeted inspections, and we actually more than doubled it.

 

            Now we go into workplaces that are high-risk workplaces where there have been either incidents before or they're in an industry that typically has high workplace injuries, and so we're focusing our efforts there.

 

            Last year we had no construction deaths for the first time in a long time, so we have a number of different industries that are really stepping up to the plate. There was an incident not that long ago - and I wish I could remember the name of the boat, but I don't have it here - but we had a fishing vessel sink and I believe there were four fishermen and an observer on board, and all of them credited their safety training that they had received with getting off that boat. They had their survival equipment on and all four survived.

 

            I just remember thinking that is because of the great work that's being done by our OSH people and by Workers' Compensation, which helps us with funding, and also quite frankly, the buy-in from the fishing community, which is truly significant in lowering the number of workplace incidences, whether it's on the wharf or out at sea. On a fishing boat, on a construction site, the threats change from minute to minute and you have to be very aware of what the workplace threats are.

 

            You did speak to the issue of claims and so I just want to make clear that you can improve your safety at your workplace and have fewer incidences and yet if your entire industry - the group that you're calculated in with - improves itself more than you do, you may not see a corresponding reduction in you WCB rates because the industry itself has improved more than you have.

 

            I just want to make that clear because sometimes people don't understand. They say, well I did so much better than last year, but if the rest of their industry does even better, you're compared against your industry. So I just wanted to make that clear to you there.

 

            MR. FARRELL: Thank you. I'll pass it over to my colleague, Mr. Jessome.

 

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jessome, I'll just let you and the minister know, you have seven minutes left.

 

MR. BEN JESSOME: I'm wondering if the minister can provide some details on how this year's MOU negotiation is to take shape, and what role she sees students playing in that.

 

            MS. REGAN: The MOU process is unfolding. I'll be meeting with students later this month, I believe, and along the way they will have input. We're dealing with the presidents on the MOU. Of course, there are students on the boards of governors that the presidents would be talking to all the time. The students will be consulted along the process, but we're not sitting down at the old-fashioned table negotiating the MOU. That's not how it's rolling out this year. We have different sections that are being looked at along the way.

 

MADAM CHAIRMAN: Minister Regan, if you would like to close, we have about five minutes.

 

            MS. REGAN: Well I guess in the five minutes I have left I could talk about how our department is meeting some of the goals of the One Nova Scotia report and if the chairman would let me know when I have about a minute left to go, that would be great.

 

            I do want to let folks know that with the Goal 1 on Inter-provincial Migration, the Atlantic Apprenticeship Harmonization Program, we feel that helps to bring in people to this province that, particularly with something like the apprenticeship agreement with Alberta, we feel will be a net benefit to us.

 

            In terms of Goal 2, International Immigration, LAE provides leadership in foreign credential recognition, and recently signed a renewed agreement for $1.43 million in federal funding to support programs that help immigrants get proper recognition of their credentials and increase their participation in Nova Scotia's workforce.

 

            In terms of Goal 3, Retention of International Students, we have created innovation teams to create a more collaborative approach to post-secondary education challenges. The student recruitment and retention team of the overarching innovation team will work to support provincial, national, and international student recruitment and retention efforts.

 

            The Maritime Provinces Higher Education Commission tracks the number of international students attending our universities. In 2011 it was 5,863, and in 2013-14 it was 7,006 - so we can see an increase there.

 

            In terms of business start-ups, one of the things I love to talk about is our sandbox project, but because I'm running out of time I'm not going to be able to talk about that, but we do believe that by investing in sandboxes and leveraging the existing innovation ecosystem and helping students create new opportunities, the department is going to enable them to stay in the province and create an environment where they can start new businesses.

            We also have an HR tool kit. That's an online portal for employer human resources information and that helps employers recruit and retain workers, develop business skills, and offer safe, welcoming workplaces to employees.

 

            In terms of Goal 6, which is to increase the number of firms participating in export trade, we actually developed a program called Supply Chain Essentials. That will increase the capacity of small and medium-sized businesses to bid on and win contracts by providing them with the skills necessary to position themselves for potential supply chain opportunities and successfully respond to RFPs.

 

            In terms of Goal 7, Labour Force Participation Rate in Nova Scotia - I would say our apprenticeship START Program is a boon to that and, quite frankly, Graduate to Opportunity, which will help recently graduated Nova Scotians get those all-important first jobs in Nova Scotia.

 

            In terms of Goal 8 - how are we doing for time, Madam Chairman? (Interruption) Okay. We also have a number of different programs that help realize a number of the goals of the One Nova Scotia report from increasing the employment rates of First Nations and African Nova Scotians and youth employment and post-secondary education and training, research and development - we're actually a huge part of the One Nova Scotia report and Nova Scotia's response to it.

 

            In these final seconds, what I would like to say is I have the best staff that you could possibly imagine. You can see them here with me and they support my work day in, day out. I feel extremely fortunate to have the executive team, the staff at the Department of Labour and Advanced Education that I have. I couldn't be prouder of the work they do and I couldn't be more grateful that they work with me every day.

 

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E14 stand?

           

The resolution stands.

 

Resolution E15 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $376,084,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of Assistance to Universities, Department of Labour and Advanced Education, pursuant to the Estimate.

 

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E15 carry?

 

            The resolution is carried.

 

            Thank you very much. That concludes our 40 hours of estimates.

 

            [The subcommittee adjourned at 3:20 p.m.]