HALIFAX, FRIDAY, APRIL 12, 2013

 

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE ON SUPPLY

 

9:15 A.M.

 

CHAIRMAN

Mr. Clarrie MacKinnon

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Good morning, minister, members, staff members from Communities, Culture and Heritage and others assembled here this morning - a fairly small crowd. We'll continue with questioning of the minister, and we are going now to the NDP caucus.

 

The honourable member for Lunenburg.

 

MS. PAM BIRDSALL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Minister, I know that the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage has played an important role in the development of recent changes in the Human Rights Act. I'm wondering if you could talk about the significance of that and what that entailed.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable Minister of Communities, Culture and Heritage.

 

HON. LEONARD PREYRA: I think that's a really good question because it touches on the larger purpose of the department as it relates to communities. On the face of it, the department would not normally get involved in a case relating to human rights; that's principally an area in the Justice field. The mandate of the department - the Communities part of the department - is to help make government more accessible to particular communities, particularly marginalized communities which are the communities that don't feel included in the process.

 

The mandate has not changed in a significant way. The Department of Justice is still responsible for human rights issues but, at the same time, the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage has been given the responsibility of helping in that process of facilitating and navigating. An example of that is the transgender rights bill that people have been advocating for a long, long time. They have been working with various departments - the Department of Health and Wellness, the Department of Community Services, the Department of Justice. Eventually people came to the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage and said, well you know if Communities, Culture and Heritage is really interested in promoting and securing the rights of particular communities, here's a community that hasn't found a real home in the government decision-making process that has real issues that are unique to the identity of this group and is there any way we can help accomplish some of the policy goals if we can consult more with the groups and help them find their way through the system.

 

Just to give you a specific example in this case, Kevin Kindred and the Rainbow Action Project and Hugo Dann - a number of people representing the Pride Committee - were bringing forward these initiatives to the various departments. We picked it up and said, you know maybe we can help facilitate this as well and bring some of the parties together. Like a lot of government decisions, things happen in silos and each silo says oh, it's a good idea, we should do something but very little happens because it gets lost in the interdepartmental listing of priorities.

 

So we brought the various groups together, and we consulted extensively with the stakeholders. Keep in mind we did a lot of parallel consultations - the Department of Justice, the Human Rights Commission and the community at large did its own consultation. We looked carefully at that, looked at what the alternatives were, did the interprovincial jurisdictional analysis, sent it to the various departments to look at the policy implications and bring a little bit more precision to the decision-making process. At the end of it, we really concluded that the best way to deal with the issue was to put just or three simple words in the Human Rights Act, include gender expression and gender identity.

 

It just seemed that three or four small words could make such a huge difference to the life of the community. For the transgender community, it was a simple recognition of their existence even. It was a recognition of the validity of many of the concerns they have and that we have. It provides them which a vehicle for public education and, most importantly down the road, for a much more rigorous and robust defence of their rights. The right to be who they are, essentially, to express their personalities the way they would want to express them, to have the right to fully participate in the life of this province.

 

To me it seemed, in a way, disappointing and surprising that at this stage in our political and social development we are still trying to fight for those rights, we are still trying to entrench those rights. In a way it surprised me that it meant so much. I know that it meant a lot, I know that it's an important piece of legislation, I know that down the road it will provide and underline the fact that transgender people have rights. The point is that a lot of departments wanted it done, a lot of governments have looked at this issue and, for one reason or the other, they haven't done it.

 

I should really give credit to a number of people - Deputy Laura Lee Langley was very involved in facilitating that interdepartmental process. She's the diversity champion in the bureaucracy and she sits on these interdepartmental committees and said well maybe we can use her good offices to bring this process together.

 

Another wonderful young woman has been seconded to the department - I think I can name her - Laura Barbour. It was very timely that she was seconded from the Department of Health and Wellness so we asked her to take on the hard work of actually bringing together all of that information I referred to earlier - the evidence, the data, the consultation - to look at what the interdepartmental groups were looking at. She brought a lot of that together and sometimes just bringing the people to the table and bringing that information together is the biggest challenge.

 

The responsibility for that legislation and that initiative rests with the Department of Justice, and the Department of Justice was instrumental in bringing us to that point and in bringing us over the hill. But I was very proud of the role my department played and how quickly the department pulled together to say yes, we can do it. As far as legislation goes, it was quite remarkable how they were able to help with that networking and that navigation.

 

I think it's a little example of what the department is capable of. One of the advantages of having a new department is that you can, to a certain extent, help define and flesh out that role. I was talking with the member for Halifax Clayton Park yesterday, that it does often entail making changes and sort of innovating and defining your role as you go along. So the department has this larger communities mandate and we are breathing life into that mandate to say, what is it that we can do to help?

 

Also yesterday I was talking about the Mi'kmaq community. Aboriginal issues can get mired in all kinds of technical, legalistic, constitutional detail and governance itself eventually becomes the issue and the substance of issues gets lost in that procedural wrangling and grey area.

 

We're seeing in very early days - I don't want to make any great predictions about it - some sign of hope there, where the Premier has said to the ministers that we don't want a lot of that to be lost, we don't want the substance of those issues to be lost. We want to make real changes for real people and we don't want to force them to invest a lot of time and process.

 

We have started to explore the possibility of saying, maybe we can help on cultural issues that relate to the Mi'kmaq communities. Maybe we can sit down - as I have - with the chief who is responsible for culture, Chief Wilbert Marshall and say, how can we work together on common projects? We are just as interested in promoting our Mi'kmaq heritage and culture and history as we are any other community. I think that is something that we will continue to work on so we are looking into projects relating to promoting Mi'kmaq history, for example, of telling the Mi'kmaq story in a very sort of coherent way, a very respectful way, that is driven largely by initiatives coming out of the Mi'kmaq community.

 

I can see this process evolving. We can't really predict where the department will end up but I think we will look for groups that need our help, that we can help navigate, and I'm delighted that a lot of groups are starting to look to us for help in navigation. So from a strictly procedural point of view, the decision-making authority still rests with those departments; we will just help with the process.

 

MS. BIRDSALL: Thank you, minister. If I could, I know there are so many interesting things we can talk about under the heading of "community" but I would like to take it back to the Human Rights Act if I could, for just a moment. Both of us being on the legislation committee - I know that you said there were just a few words that were changed and the discussion around the table was how profound those words can be. I remember when the Act was proclaimed - some of the most eloquent speeches that I've ever heard in the House were around this Act and I just say the sense of pride that was exhibited and the response that it garnered was extraordinary.

 

When you talked about Laura Barbour, is she the person who is then in the position of Manager - Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity, or is that another position that has been created?

 

MR. PREYRA: No, she's a seconded position. I'm not sure if she's a manager but she is but yes, that is her main project.

 

MS. BIRDSALL: Tell us a little bit about that, explore that a bit more, if you would.

 

MR. PREYRA: I think it's one of those pieces of the puzzle relating to communities. The deputy, as I said earlier, is a diversity champion and the department has been seen as the champion for particular communities. Ms. Barbour is working principally on health issues at the moment, as they relate to those communities.

 

I use the plural because sometimes we assume there's a certain homogeneity in communities that once you get to know them better, you realize there are a whole variety of issues. In this case, she is particularly interested in seniors at this moment in time because that's an issue that the community has identified as an important one and she is doing some navigation across various departments - Health and Wellness, Community Services, and - to a lesser extent - Education and Early Childhood Development. So she's that kind of person in the network and trying to help us make our way through the various alternatives, looking at some of the interjurisdictional material but her larger role is to work on LGBTQI issues.

 

MS. BIRDSALL: Do you see this as - what period of time are we looking at? It's a seconded position - are we looking at a couple of years? How does that get defined?

 

MR. PREYRA: At the moment it's a two-year position, a two-year secondment. Obviously as you've gathered from my comments about her and about the position, she's doing some excellent work and we would like to see it continue but another year down the road we will be revisiting this question and we'll see. As I've said a few times now, this restructuring and changing organizations and processes means that we will be in a constant state of review, but this is an initiative that has been very successful and I'm proud of it.

 

I should also say that I was really very impressed with the Assembly and the debate. I mean the Liberal Party and the Progressive Conservative Party were very constructive on that and I was very impressed with the quality of remarks that people made and the genuine interest in making it happen, so I do want to give a shout out to the Opposition Parties as well who could very well have dragged it out, if they had wanted to. They didn't and I think stuck to the high ground and the community itself was very impressed as a result of that.

 

MS. BIRDSALL: Absolutely. Can you tell us about the investments that were made last year concerning LGBTI?

 

MR. PREYRA: Most of the investments in the department just involve departmental coordination, to a certain extent; investment in particular events and projects relating to culture; and helping to channel people in the direction of other resources that were available.

 

The department is part of that interdepartmental committee, in large part to identify resources in other departments that can be harnessed and coordinated a little better. Laura Barbour is there but there is a lot of investment in the Health and Wellness Department, for example. I know that these questions should be dealt with elsewhere but Pride Health has been just remarkable in terms of the amount of work they have done with the Pride community and opening up the health process. I'm sure some of you at the constituency level have worked there.

 

The Department of Education and Early Childhood Development has its own program, and Community Services too. Part of what we do in the department from time to time is to try and find out where the resources are, where we are the front line of contact even though we don't have responsibility, we often will, particularly because the deputy is so involved in the diversity initiatives, we are able to point people in the right direction.

 

MS. BIRDSALL: Minister, I'd like to ask you a few things about archives, if we could go in that direction. I know that lately there have been a number of media releases around historical artifacts that went missing and were found in an individual's home; there are a lot of issues around that. I wonder if you could talk about that whole - that a number of archival pieces were found in an individual's home. It was all over the news that this person had fine art and historical documents and all sorts of things. I just wonder if you could talk about that and how that has all worked out.

 

MR. PREYRA: That's a really interesting question. It's fascinating as a story in itself, right? You wonder what it is that was happening there. The issue is before the courts at the moment so I can't say too much. Most of the information, if not all of the information I have, is second hand. But I can speak to the department in a general way about archival information. I don't believe - and I stand to be corrected - that there is anything from our museum or archives or libraries that were identified as coming from there.

 

Again, the police are going through this material and every now and then I see an ad in the paper or a note comes across saying, I have a picture of this piece of artillery and does anyone know where it came from - this whole body armour suit, for example. We do see that and there are people in the department who are monitoring that as well.

 

The department also has some great expertise in libraries, museums and archives. We have individual members in our department - not the least of which is my executive assistant, Nathanial Smith, who is fascinated with things archival and is an expert in his own right on that. We have a lot of expertise in the department on that and I believe that the law enforcement authorities are using that expertise to try and track down these documents as well. As far as I know at the moment, based on the artifacts that they have identified, nothing has come from the archives and museums and libraries.

 

I do want to say that for us it does raise a larger set of questions about the role of the archives. I think there used to be - for a long, long time - a sense that this archival material has to be protected absolutely. I studied at the University of Toronto and we had a rare book collection there, the Thomas Fisher Library at the Robarts. I remember going in and looking at documents and they'd make you put the white gloves on and you sit at a table and the light was very low. To me it was a real thrill to be handling all of that original material. Sometimes people hadn't looked at it in 100 years.

 

There's a real pleasure that goes with being able to handle documents but there's also a concern that you can damage those documents and, in this case, possibly there's an allegation that they were stolen. Striking that balance between having archival information that's really valuable and important - it tells the story of our communities and particular people, they're irreplaceable - and balancing that off against what I see as the real mandate of our department is to make that information accessible.

 

To me, to a certain extent, it's not really valuable unless people see it, unless people have access to it, people can use it. So the department has been grappling with this issue in a very creative way. It's been fascinating to see, in my lifetime, how this whole libraries/museums/archives field has evolved from this older version to "don't touch it, it's a valuable piece of art and you're not going to handle it unless you're a very special, privileged person who can jump through the hoops and you have to show that you have a right to see this document", to saying "you know we're going to liberate all of that data, we're going to make that data available to every single Nova Scotian who is interested in it because that's why this department exists, that's why this archive or this museum or this library exists. It's not there as a museum piece for a select group of people.

 

The department has been working on strategies for releasing and disseminating that information in a way that makes it accessible and we're continuing to work on that.

 

I want to just give a shout out to the people who are working on the social media side of the archival section: Lois Yorke, who is our provincial archivist; and Garry Shutlak, who is Mr. Nova Scotia know-it-all. In my world he lives upstairs in my constituency office so I see a lot of him. There's not a day that goes by when he is not berating me about something that has read about or a document that we wants to get, John MacLeod and Lauren Oostveen.

 

Lauren Oostveen, to me, is really a fascinating young woman. I don't really know her at all but I do see her on social media and a lot of people who use social media talk about her because she is part of that new wave of archivists, the new wave of people I talked about who are looking at data liberation, saying let's make as much information as we have possible in social media like Facebook and Twitter, and the whole digital copying and dissemination process gives us those opportunities.

 

They have also, in that unit, said that the archives is not just a physical building, it's not just what's in the documents. The archives could possibly represent the collective memory of Nova Scotians, it could represent the collective experiences of Nova Scotians. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the project to give a lot of detail but I can give you the level of detail that I've seen as an ordinary citizen. She put out - I say her because her name has been associated with it but there is a larger unit - she put out this note relating to the commemoration of the Halifax Explosion. Normally the Halifax Explosion has meant that people go to the places that were affected, they look at the documents and they look at newspaper headlines and things like that. Lauren Oostveen and the archives said, why don't we ask people about their experiences, about their stories, about their family histories, what their grandparents or their parents said about it, what they have in their homes, how has this experience shaped their memory and their understanding - just send us all your stories.

 

I don't know exactly where that information is at the moment but I did read things as they were developed and I did go and look at those stories every now and then. To me, from a larger sense of, look, a bird's eye view of this, is that's really a fascinating way of looking at archives. We have all of this information archived in our communities, in our memories, in our families - how do we bring those out as well? How do we tell the stories of ordinary Nova Scotians?

 

As you know, we're both kind of academics and people with scholarly backgrounds, we've had this old fashioned view that history is made by the great men of history, usually, and the great events - right? There is a bit of a sexist, kind of patriarchal approach to the gathering and keeping of information. This has kind of turned itself on its head and said yeah, we need to do more about letting ordinary Nova Scotians tell their stories, of sharing their stories of rendering that information to other people. In a way it's a conversation we have with each other, it's a conversation we have across the generations.

 

This initiative on the Halifax Explosion - what Lauren Oostveen and the gang are doing - to me is just remarkable, and I'm interested in seeing where it goes. There's a lot of talk about how social media is doing great damage and this is the week to see that, but social media has a great, positive impact. Social media has the potential to do things for us and I want to make sure that the archives and museums take advantage of that.

 

MS. BIRDSALL: Thank you, minister. I absolutely agree and I think that the positive sorts of ways that Facebook can be used to really engage the community is wonderful. In fact my mother was a toddler during the Halifax Explosion and our story always was that she was sitting in her high chair early in the morning, with a little bowl of porridge in front of her and she just had a feeling and she took the little tray and pulled it up like this, in front of her, and a huge piece of glass wedged itself in the bottom of it, so Lord knows what would have happened.

 

I have a friend whose mother lived in the north end of Dartmouth and they had been baking bread and the bread was in the oven and in fact they had the mindset to remember to check the bread, after all the confusion settled down. They cut the bread and put butter on it and they started to eat it and it was crunching, it was full of powdered glass - just sucked itself. The force of the explosion pulled it into the powdered glass, the glass in the windows exploded and was just pulled in. It's fascinating and I know that kind of thing really is important to share.

 

I love the idea of the collective memory, I think that's something that's very important. I will end my questioning there and pass it over to my colleague.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Guysborough-Sheet Harbour.

 

MR. JIM BOUDREAU: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the areas I want to explore a little bit, I guess, relates to museums; in particular the Strategic Development Initiative Fund. I see some of the things happening here as very innovative and I think it's incumbent on museums to continually - I know that sometimes it sounds funny - innovate and change things because that's part of telling our history and that's also part of drawing new people in and also getting other people to come back.

 

I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the Strategic Development Initiative Fund, what the . . .

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable Minister of Communities, Culture, and Heritage.

 

HON. LEONARD PREYRA: I'm sorry, I don't think the question was finished.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you had something you wanted to talk about. Sorry, member.

 

MR. BOUDREAU: I'm interested in hearing a little bit about the uptake on that fund as well and maybe we could talk or we could hear a few of the projects that have fallen under this category.

 

MR. PREYRA: Yes, the Strategic Development Initiative really encourages partners in heritage to develop projects and build on existing community assets and strengths. It's a $200,000 initiative that can be used to supplement and complement work that is being done by the archives and community museums and municipal governments and not-for-profit groups and regional development authorities and other bodies that are looking at common heritage objectives.

 

Really it's aimed more at developing capacity in those organizations and self-sufficiency. The partners in heritage include archives and community organizations and heritage associations, municipal governments. There are a whole range of potential partners in the strategic development initiative.

 

I could give you examples, if you'd like. The Annapolis Royal Historic Gardens, for example, collaborate on expanding existing revenue generation infrastructure. You know, the Annapolis Royal Historic Gardens is a real revelation to me and it really just says about my own ignorance than anything else because I'm sure there are many, many people right across the province who know all about the Annapolis Royal Historic Gardens. Shortly after I got appointed, I got a letter from the Annapolis Royal Historic Gardens asking if we would support a particular project. I hadn't really thought about gardens as being part of infrastructure; I hadn't really thought about it as being part of our heritage. Again, I know that's part of my own ignorance that I'm confessing but I went to the historic gardens and it was really, to me, just astonishing what they were doing there.

 

I know we talk about our natural heritage, people tend to think about the environment, about greenhouse gases and about hiking trails and things like that, but plants and trees are part of that historic heritage as well, the kind of apple that is grown in a place or a tree that was planted there or a type of gardening technique that is used or how they irrigate an area.

 

They took me up on my offer to see the gardens and I've been there twice since my appointment. So this particular project was looked at revenue generation. These wonderful places, as beautiful as they are, are very expensive to maintain. The Annapolis Royal Historic Gardens is maintained because of the sheer love of the community there; the hard work of the volunteers. I can tell you there's not a lot of cash going into it but there is a lot of sweat equity, a lot of labour going into it.

 

When I got there I met those volunteers and I thought wow, here's a community that really cares about something, providing something that is really important, that they are conserving part of our natural heritage and they have a project. I know I'm not doing it justice by describing it as a tea house and a small, little meeting area but I wish I could remember the names of the trees they had around the tea house. They've got these fantastic trees that are a couple of hundred years old that provide shade for this garden and they thought, you know, a lot of people like sitting out in the garden, having a cup of tea. Why not just use that tree to talk about heritage, but also use it as a space where people can sit down and see the value in having these green spaces in the city and conserving it.

 

We have provided some money to help them develop this as a source of revenue, as a place where the community can gather. It will provide some sustainability in the long run. I just know, based on the kind of enthusiasm and the community commitment that I saw, that it is - if it doesn't work, it won't be for the lack of trying.

 

Certainly at a much different level, there is this question of preserving heritage seeds and heritage plants and heritage stock. As we get more and more into a community kind of monoculture, as we get into specialization, there is a potential that these will be lost, these plants and these seeds and these flowers will be lost. I think there is a potential to say well, you know what, they are just trees and flowers and seeds, so who cares? I think they are part of our heritage, just as the built heritage is part of it. It is part of our history that we should be proud of, that Nova Scotia had such a leading role in creating certain products.

 

I know there's a museum in Wolfville that looks at apples and the tremendous amount of experimentation that went into the development of apples. I mean you all know about the Honeycrisp apple, you know about Granny Smith and the new apple - the Orangutan, right? That's all part of that heritage process, it's all part of our heritage in experimenting. You need to make sure, particularly in this era where we're concerned more about disease and disease-resistant plants, that we have a bank of these assets and part of our - I know I've strayed very long and far from what you were asking me, I'm only on item one and I'm not going to go through it.

 

To me, life in this department has been such an education, it has been such a revelation and every time you look at an issue you are looking at something and you say I'd really like to do something, I'm sure the department with my saying coming back from a visit to Annapolis Royal and saying well what do we do about heritage plants? Is it part of our mandate or is it an agricultural or natural resources issue or Service Nova Scotia? I think I keep the deputy on her toes.

 

MR. BOUDREAU: With regard to the Strategic Development Initiative Fund, when was that established?

 

MR. PREYRA: It's been around for longer than 10 years, I honestly don't know.

 

MR. BOUDREAU: The reason I'm asking that question is because in the last little while, it just seems to me that there's some excitement or some movement around this fund. Like the project you referred to, that project seemed to be very well received and seemed to be something that the public, in general, could sort of wrap their head around. That was the reason for that question, just to see and maybe there's been some tweaking of that fund or there have been some changes in that fund. I do see that it is something that seems to be coming, if it hasn't been - maybe it has been but it seems to be coming a little more popular. That's just a comment, really.

 

MR. PREYRA: Yes, it is becoming more popular and we are trying to spread the word. It is a mixed blessing because the more you talk about it, the more applications you get in and the more you realize how many worthwhile projects there are out there that we can only fund in a limited way. But yes, we are constantly tweaking things, revising our processes in terms of improving our communications and providing a simpler way of applying or explaining better why certain decisions were made or not made. I think a good public policy process involves monitoring your own behaviour and your own processes and keeping in very close contact with the people you are serving and asking whether or not there's a better way or a different way of doing it.

 

Yes, some people will call it tweaking, sometimes we make some major changes and say this is not working or we can be more effective or this project is best handled somewhere else. So the department being a relatively new department - particularly as it relates to communities and community development - is looking for both opportunities to partner with these community groups that I talked about, the local heritage associations, municipal governments and enterprise networks and other not-for-profits, and at the same time making sure that we don't have a lot of duplication and overlap in the system.

 

It will be a constant state of review across government and that is one of the directions we've been given as well, to make sure that we're able to identify better ways of doing things that would support communities.

 

MR. BOUDREAU: Well just sort of a last comment on that, I guess, I would suggest that you are doing a very good job, and your department is doing a very good job in this area because I see, and maybe it is part of the processes being changed and maybe simplified and made easier for some of the non-profit organizations - I see this as an area where there seems to be some movement in it, there seems to be some renewed enthusiasm on it, there seems to be more of a public acceptance so I guess that speaks volumes, perhaps, to yourself and to the department and the direction you are taking. I just want to end up at that stage.

 

I do have another question but Mr. Chairman, how much time do we have left, as a caucus here?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: There's 17 minutes remaining.

 

MR. BOUDREAU: Okay, thank you. Continuing along that line, I see that the department, I guess through the Nova Scotia Museum, is also involving itself in helping foster and to grow, I guess, the research in areas that perhaps we were doing something in but we may not have been doing it to the extent, areas like marine history, archeology, which has been around for a little while, of course, and we've been doing a lot of work in that area - the cultural history, the paleontology and the natural history.

 

Because I'm always interested in the fishing industry, I understand there was a project down in MLA Birdsall's area, I think - the Mahone Bay area. There was a project, I believe, that was funded down there looking at the relationship between this province, the fishing industry and the connections between Labrador coast in the early 19^th and 20^th Centuries. I was particularly interested in that, of course, because of the fishing connections because of the connections with Labrador and the fact that I spent a year living in Newfoundland and spent a little bit of time with some of the older people in the communities there, talking about and looking at that issue over there, that event over there, because it was very popular. We did discuss the fact that there was a connection between Nova Scotia certainly and Newfoundland in that regard, too.

 

I'm just wondering - you don't necessarily have to talk about that project because I'm familiar with it but maybe you could talk about some of the innovative things we are doing in that area, too, some of the projects that you see as being maybe ground-breaking or new. No pun intended about the ground-breaking either.

 

MR. PREYRA: Thank you very much for that question. I know I'm going to give you an answer that you're not really looking for or expecting. I'll just tell you that I grew up in a - I was born in a little fishing village out in a place called Goa, which is a Portuguese colony on the coast of India. All of us who lived by the ocean have this love affair with the ocean and ships. I happened to be travelling last year in Portugal - my partner and I were there for a hike - and people were talking about the connections between Portugal in Spain, and Canada.

 

This past summer we went to Newfoundland and hiked up the Labrador coast. It was just extraordinary, the connections that exist between the first Portuguese who were there and the building of the communities in Labrador and Newfoundland. In fact I met someone at the National Historic Site there - I've forgotten the name of the boat that is at the bottom of the water; Red Cliff, I think. Anyway, it's a Portuguese fishing boat that was discovered at the bottom that was there in the early 1700's. They had discovered it, brought it up to the surface, photographed it and then they decided that the best way to deal with it was to let it go back down again, to preserve it.

 

I met someone there who said, why don't we do something with Nova Scotia about this great fishing heritage that we have and show the larger links and the larger evolution of the fishing industry because this is part of our roots that we don't seem to know the history of our outports, we don't know the history of our communities and how far back they go and the people who essentially built this province. It's great, the stories that I was alluding to earlier, you go somewhere and you come back with a whole new set of ideas about heritage and our fishing heritage.

 

That's all by way of context, to get back to answering your question about the Nova Scotia Museum. We have given a number of research grants to conduct research into our marine history and archeology and cultural history and paleontology. Just to cite a few - in Mahone Bay the project that you were talking about, they've got some money in the marine history category; they got $4,000 I think. Roger Marsters was looking at the province's economic and cultural communities connections with fishing communities on the Labrador coast during the 19^th and early 20^th Centuries.

 

One of the interesting things about the Labrador coast and I don't know why it just jumped into my mind is the fascinating medical history of people like Nurse Myra Bennett - people who travelled up and down the coast in boats and provided medical service. We seem to be coming back to that, we seem to be coming back to mobile health units, for example, like the bookmobile. Those people out there are heroes and anyway, we can learn a lot by looking at that history and how things were done, how people built a wharf or a fishing boat or how they conserved a particular stock. There's a lot we can learn.

 

Anyway, Roger Marsters has got a project, another from Halifax has $3,450 to look at archaeology and deposits in Bear River. There are a number of projects like that that look at our marine history. We are a maritime province and a lot of our history, a lot of the things we value are shaped by the ocean and our connections with the ocean. Those of us who grew up by the ocean can never live too far away from the ocean and that, too, is part of our heritage.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Minister, I don't want to interject in your answer but I always give a 10-minute warning with time about to run out and the NDP caucus has 10 minutes remaining. If you want to continue with your answer, that's all well and good but I know Mr. Skabar is anxiously waiting to ask a couple of questions, for sure, and he hasn't had an opportunity yet.

 

MR. PREYRA: I'll gladly stop rambling and yield the floor.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable member for Cumberland North.

 

MR. BRIAN SKABAR: Thank you, minister, and I didn't think of that as rambling. I do appreciate your waxing eloquence.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: He'll be speaking Gaelic next. He's doing a good job. (Laughter)

 

MR. PREYRA: I'll be a bit more understandable in Gaelic, maybe.

 

MR. SKABAR: When you did mention that at times we know so little of our own history and how to promote that and expand that, one of the things that comes to my mind immediately was the whole history of the world peace movement, of which the first ever World Peace Conference took place in Pugwash, Nova Scotia. When my son and I were travelling in London a year ago, we stopped in to the Pugwash International Office in the middle of London, which was named after Pugwash, for the Pugwash peace movement.

 

Now in the last couple of years, we - the Province of Nova Scotia, along with our federal government colleagues - did spend a lot of money on that and we're trying to promote that. Up until like seven or eight years ago, I had never heard of it and shame on me for that, but how is someone supposed to know?

 

Last summer Minister Jennex happened to be in the area and we took her for a tour. She did commit to including the Pugwash Peace Movement in the high school curriculum because apparently there's very little of it right now. Now I said that so I could say this: we have so many of these along the gulf shore, so many very fascinating bits of history - where else can you actually go and hold a Nobel Peace Prize in your hand? You can't do it anymore but up until two years ago you could have held it in your hand and taken a picture of yourself wearing the Peace Prize awarded to Joseph Rotblat.

 

Now the governance model, however, of the Pugwash Park Commission - it's actually a registered charity which owns the facility - is in private hands. The Province of Nova Scotia, to my knowledge, has very little or no control over who has the keys to this facility, who they allow into it, under what circumstances. I'm just wondering - would it be your department, minister, that would be able to help me figure this out?

 

MR. PREYRA: Definitely, it would be something that we would be able to help navigate and explore. Your question about the Pugwash Movement - another one of our great stories. In a time when most people were preparing for war and trying to figure out how they could become stronger and win wars, here in Nova Scotia a group of people were looking way down the road, many decades ahead of their time, about the tremendous impact that the atomic bomb and atomic weapons would have on the world.

 

They are a fascinating group of people because on the one hand, they were scientists who were interested in exploring the world of the atom and how the atom could be used and like so many great discoveries and great scientists, sometimes those discoveries get subverted and corrupted. I think they reached a conclusion (Interruption) good timing there, isn't it? That was the explosion there, not atomic, though.

 

I think so here you have this group of very far-seeing people, committed to research on one hand, committed to peace on the other hand, looking at the dangers of war. So they meet in a place called Pugwash - a small, little Nova Scotia town - and build this movement that eventually wins a Nobel Peace Prize. Is this an important part of our history? Of course. Is it something we want to preserve? Of course it is, it's a story we want to tell.

 

By the way, last year at the Atlantic Film Festival there was a movie called The Strangest Dream, one of the most remarkable movies I have seen in Nova Scotia. Eric Bednarski, a local film maker made it; music was done by Jenn Grant. Anyway, it's a remarkable movie and I certainly would encourage anyone who is interested in that history to see that film. It tells a remarkable part of our history and our story - there's my plug for a great film.

 

In terms of the details to your question - I've looked a little bit into this - the society itself is an American or an Ontario society, they own that land on which the buildings are located. So part of the issue is looking at the question of ownership and whether the province can get involved in that. Part of it involves the management of it. Like a lot of organizations, I suspect they're getting older and there isn't that same connection or financial resources that they once had so the management and the fundraising is another issue. Those kinds of things have to be disentangled.

 

It's an important part of our story and certainly we'll be looking for ways in which we can participate, but in terms of what we do in the future, there's still a lot of legal and other important issues to be dealt with. Certainly the story of Pugwash and the Peace Movement will always be of interest and of concern to the department.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Skabar, time for one quick question and perhaps even a quicker answer.

 

MR. SKABAR: It certainly is a complicated matter, indeed. It turns out that when Cyrus Eaton put in a bid to fund this conference, he bid against Aristotle Onassis at the time and the movement chose Pugwash and Cyrus Eaton over Aristotle Onassis and Greece. Thank you very much, minister, for your answer.

 

Other issues, like the Joggins Fossil Institute and the extent to which the province funds it and the governance model - the whole governance model in many of these private foundations and boards is a mystery to me, somehow. One of my challenges to myself is to try and figure out and address how these things work and how we may have at least - we being the Province of Nova Scotia and the taxpayers - have some influence in the governance model of some of these private boards and institutes.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Just a little over a minute remaining in the NDP caucus time.

 

MR. PREYRA: I think you're right. It's one of the things the department is constantly looking at, our whole question of how do we manage our assets, what kind of assets will we take responsibility for, which ones do we need to devolve and do through different mechanisms. The number of potential places that we can work with continues to grow, at the same time while the resources and the ability to deal with it are not growing and there are infrastructure deficits.

 

Joggins is an amazing place. I didn't get a chance to talk about Superstar, our 350 million years old fossil that was found by a dog named Kitty - it's a good story there - but I think I've run out of time.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, minister. I understand that the Liberal and Progressive Conservative caucuses have exhausted their questioning, is that correct? Ok, I will now call on the minister for closing remarks and also the reading of two resolutions, two estimates, would be E2 and E44.

 

Minister, you have as long as you want, to have closing remarks, of course limiting to one hour.

 

MR. PREYRA: That's a cautionary tale, you've seen me ramble on, on simple questions, haven't you? I could go on, Mr. Chairman.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: For over an hour, but I'm cutting you off at one, for sure.

 

MR. PREYRA: I will try and restrict myself to just - what I would like to do is respond to some of the promises for information that we made yesterday and also to summarize some of the answers that were given yesterday in an overview and then move the estimates of this department.

 

Yesterday in conversations with the member for Halifax Clayton Park she had asked about the breakdown of our communications work that we had done and I just wanted to reiterate that we were providing the figures in two different ways, one is we were giving the complete summary of our communications expenditures and we were also giving a breakdown of how those particular agreements or contracts with Communications Nova Scotia were dispersed. In the course of that discussion she said, well, she wanted to see a bit more details on the communications, what the particular projects were that were done by those various agencies. We undertook to provide it, to table that information.

 

I'm happy to say and I want to thank Joyce McDonald who has worked overnight on bringing this document together, and Laura Lee Langley - what I would like to table is the Communications Nova Scotia advertising work that the various units in the department have. I hate to use the word "contracted" but it is an effective relationship that we have. The general objective is to do as much as we can in-house because it's cheaper, and that's the way we have done it.

 

The bottom line figures are already in the estimates, the total communications graphic display budget, for $81,722. The Communications Nova Scotia part of $8,935, the Queen's Printer part of the costs at $79,191.29, the video production budget of $23,255.77. All of these numbers are in the estimates now, but I think what she was asking was for a more detailed breakdown of how those monies were disbursed, so, Mr. Chairman, I would like to table those details and that breakdown, if it would be helpful. With your help, we would like to get it to the honourable member for Halifax Clayton Park.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, minister.

 

MR. PREYRA: I think the remaining questions that were asked, I think I answered. I know the member for Dartmouth North is here and I think I answered all of those questions, with the exception of a question that he had about the demographic breakdown of that. I think that is part of a study that is being undertaken and whenever those results are known, or as soon as we have more information about that, I would be happy to table that as well.

 

I think as far as the member for Victoria-The Lakes goes, I think I promised to visit a cemetery in Ingonish the next time I'm there. I will keep that promise as soon as I'm in the neighbourhood. I don't think there was any more information required.

 

With that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to summarize some of the remarks that I have made in the course of this hearing of the estimates and as a follow-up to some of the questions that were asked around the table. I want to thank the members on both sides for asking really informative, interesting questions. It is a real process of education for me and for them as well as we think our way through it and I think in part it has also been a revelation to members of my department who are here to say they didn't know I thought those things about some of these issues. I'm sure there will be some follow-up around that as well.

 

Mr. Chairman, it's been a pleasure to outline the highlights of the 2013-14 budget for the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage for the committee and all Nova Scotians. As my colleague, the Minister of Finance pointed out, on Budget Day Nova Scotia is turning a corner as our government brings the province's finances back to balance.

 

Mr. Chairman, as Minister MacDonald also made clear, the credit for that rests with all Nova Scotians. It was their hard work, discipline and sacrifice that made it possible. As is becoming clear from the debate on the estimates, the province's financial plan for the coming year delivers on our commitment to get back to balance so that we respond to the priorities important to Nova Scotians - Better Care Sooner, creating good jobs that grow the economy and making life more affordable for Nova Scotia families. As we can see, getting back to balance did not happen by accident, it happened because we had a plan and we stuck to that plan. The plan meant making difficult but prudent choices to control government spending and target key investments in jobs and communities to grow our economy.

 

Mr. Chairman, as a result of that plan and the shared sacrifices made by all Nova Scotians, communities across the province are now better placed to take advantage of the new opportunities coming their way. As Nova Scotia turns the corner and prepares to take advantage of these opportunities, strengthening communities is a key element of government's plan. I will now take a few moments to recap how my department is working to make that happen.

As I have shown, the work of the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage plays a key role in helping communities grow stronger so that they continue to make life better for families. I have been pleased to share details of our plans for the coming fiscal year with the committee and the people of Nova Scotia. As the committee has seen, this year the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage will focus on a number of initiatives, programs and services that will build community capacity. To do that means continuing to grow our creative economy as we follow the five-point plan for arts and culture, protecting and promoting a diverse culture and heritage, and encouraging lifelong learning.

 

Mr. Chairman, I would once again like to take a moment to acknowledge the department's people for their good work, especially the people sitting on either side of me - the Deputy Minister Laura Lee Langley, Joyce McDonald and my Executive Assistant, as I said earlier, who has a passion for this work above and beyond his suffering the hours he spends with me in my incessant requests for help. There are a number of executive directors who are not here. I again congratulate Deputy Minister Laura Lee Langley, her senior leadership team and the exceptional people of the department for their dedication to following best practices and providing tremendous service and support to our stakeholders. They know that the work of the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage touches the heart of every community in Nova Scotia.

 

Mr. Chairman, whether preserving and protecting our shared heritage to provincial and local museums or providing opportunities to nurture lifelong learning through our regional libraries - as I have outlined, the work of the department and its staff is felt in every part of Nova Scotia. Whether advancing access to French language services for Acadian and francophone and francophile Nova Scotians, or providing learning opportunities for Gaelic language and culture, the department and its staff positively impact communities across Nova Scotia. Whether supporting Nova Scotia's talented artists and creators and growing a vibrant, creative economy that provides jobs and opportunities or recognizing the importance of community spirit to the quality of life we all enjoy, the department and its staff are playing a vital role that touches every Nova Scotian community.

 

Mr. Chairman, whether ensuring that the history, accomplishments and contributions of African Nova Scotians are celebrated, supported and understood, or helping non-profit groups improve their facilities so they continue to benefit our communities with activities and services that make life better for families, the department and its staff are active in every community across Nova Scotia.

 

Mr. Chairman, it was a privilege to share information about the budget for a department that brings such a clear and positive focus to communities in the broadest sense of the words. As minister of this department, I am constantly faced with the question of, what do we mean when we say "community"? Clearly, "community" means many things to many people. It can be based in geography, it can be based on history or tradition, it can be defined by a shared or common interest. There are many possible answers, depending on the context of the question.

 

Mr. Chairman, I believe that a community is more than a place name on a map. I believe it can be any group that shares a set of beliefs, values, or a common purpose. I know that communities are, by their very natures, diverse. They take into account different points of view, different ranges of experience and different dreams and aspirations.

 

The work of the department highlights that communities are about people and their hopes and dreams for a bright future. In the coming year I have shown that this department is making key investments in culture, heritage and services, such as museum and archives that are helping Nova Scotians achieve their dreams.

 

As Nova Scotia turned the corner and seizes new opportunities, we have a lot of dreams that are within our reach. Our government has listened to Nova Scotians and is working with them to meet the priorities that matter most to them. Nova Scotians value strong communities where there are economic opportunities and good jobs and once again in the coming year the Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Program will support good local jobs and let them grow the economy in communities across Nova Scotia. Non-profit community groups will have access to $2.3 million in funding that will ensure key facilities continue to be there for families and their communities. In 2012-13 this program has benefitted 173 applicants across Nova Scotia and created local jobs and opportunities for growth.

 

Mr. Chairman, we know that Nova Scotians value communities that place importance on lifelong learning, which is supported by community museums, archives and libraries throughout Nova Scotia. Once again this year our government is providing stable

funding to the Community Museum Assistance Program and for operating grants to regional libraries through the Nova Scotia Provincial Library.

 

Mr. Chairman, Nova Scotians want their communities to work hard at celebrating our diverse culture and heritage. This year the Vive l'Acadie Community Support Fund - which is generated by sales of Nova Scotia's new French language license plate - will support our Acadian communities with funding for special projects.

 

Study of Gaelic language and culture will be supported once again by bursary programs through Gaelic Affairs. Again, Project LEAD will continue to introduce young Nova Scotia to the Justice system and prepare them to be good citizens and positive contributors to our communities.

 

Mr. Chairman, in a world where difference is too often viewed with suspicion and fear, Nova Scotians know that our rich and diverse culture and heritage makes our community stronger and more vibrant places. This department is devoted to promoting that diversity and celebrating it with all Nova Scotians.

 

Mr. Chairman, whether it is a local museum, support for an artist, the work of the Nova Scotia Archives to preserve our documentary heritage, or the many programs that support our Acadian, African Nova Scotian or Gaelic cultures, this department is working with its stakeholders to make life better for Nova Scotian families. Through their programs and services and our partnership with stake holders across the province, communities and their people are able to share in the new opportunities for growth that come as we turn the corner to a balanced budget and renewed economic growth.

 

Mr. Chairman, it was a pleasure to speak to the committee about the major initiatives and activities for the department in this coming year. I hope I have been able to show how proud I am to be minister of a department which does so much to contribute to making life better for families in every region, and that includes the support provided to regional libraries across the province to the Nova Scotia Provincial Library.

 

Our government has demonstrated it understands how important public libraries are to communities across the province. That is why we worked hard to provide stable funding again this year to regional library boards. It is why we continue to work with those boards as they study options for maintaining active and sustainable rural library services that can benefit families in every region of the province. With the leadership of staff and in co-operation with regional library boards in every part of Nova Scotia, we're ensuring that public libraries continue to support a culture that values lifelong learning.

 

Mr. Chairman, thanks to the work that government and all Nova Scotians have done to get back to balance, we are providing continued and stable funding again this year through operating grants to regional library boards. In 2013-14, the budget for these operating grants is being maintained at approximately $14 million, the same as it has been in the previous fiscal year.

 

The 2013-14 budget for the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage shows its broad focus on protecting and celebrating Nova Scotia's diverse culture and heritage. The work of Acadian Affairs, African Nova Scotian Affairs, and Gaelic Affairs ensures that these cultural communities benefit from our government's efforts to make life better for Nova Scotia families. It also ensures that all Nova Scotians benefit from the innovation and creativity that is unleashed by celebrating a diverse culture and heritage.

 

Mr. Chairman, ensuring that every Nova Scotian has the opportunity to contribute to stronger communities is vital to our future. As minister, I am proud to work with people of our department to help that happen. I also look forward to continuing to work with my colleagues - Ministers Paris, Smith and Wilson - in the coming year to ensure the voices of Acadians, African Nova Scotians and our Gaelic community are heard at the decision-making table in government.

 

The Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage will work with these communities to ensure their contributions to our history continue to be recognized and they actively influence our future as a province. That is reflected in our government's support for the development of the Black Loyalist Heritage Centre in Birchtown. All Nova Scotians can look forward to the story of the Black Loyalists joining the provincial museum scene and adding to our appreciation and understanding of this important part of our shared history.

 

Mr. Chairman, as I have shown, we are making key investments in preserving the diverse elements of our culture and heritage, to help tell the story of Nova Scotia's unique identity. Our investment at Birchtown is helping the Black Loyalist Heritage Society leverage contributions from other levels of government and other donors to build a centre that will tell the story of the Black Loyalists for current and future generations. I am impressed with the commitment of the people in my department to supporting the arts and culture community, our public libraries, the heritage sector and our distinct cultural communities.

 

Mr. Chairman, I also want to thank again the members of the culture and heritage sectors in our regional libraries for contributing so much to the health and well-being of communities across the province. In keeping with government's priorities, they are helping make life better for families in every region as we turn the corner and start to take advantage of new opportunities.

 

As Minister MacDonald made clear on Budget Day, four years ago our government laid out a plan to get back to balance. It wasn't an easy task but it was important to Nova Scotians who wanted their government to live within its means so that the program and services important to them would be there for the long term. With a balanced approach focused on being more careful with spending and supporting activities that can lead to more jobs and economic growth, this year our government is delivering on its pledge to achieve that balanced budget.

 

Mr. Chairman, Communities, Culture and Heritage is helping government achieve those priorities in this fiscal year because they are important to Nova Scotia and Nova Scotians. This is not the end of the road when it comes to living within our means - we continue to make strategic choices about how we support our important sectors, to ensure their long-term viability. We have made the right decisions to ensure that government lives within its means. We have been strategic about investing our valuable financial and material resources. Being strategic has meant working hard to be more efficient in delivering programs and services. It has meant enhancing our support for the arts and culture sector, protecting important pieces of our heritage through the Nova Scotia Archives, and supporting local jobs through the Community Jobs and Facilities Improvement Program.

 

The Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage will continue to be strategic as it implements its budget for 2013-14 for $60,009,000. As I mentioned, we have made strategic choices in order to live within our means, but I'm excited that this fiscal year we've also been able to enhance support for cultural development in Nova Scotia.

 

While the department is realizing savings in terms of its operational budget, those savings do not impact our support for community-run museums of the arts and culture sector. As I mentioned, the budget for operating grants to regional libraries has been maintained. The savings were identified through increased efficiencies and shared services within the department - part of our commitment to break down silos. They are in keeping with government's commitment to get back to balance through a balanced and prudent mix of greater efficiency and strategic investments.

 

We're able to achieve savings because of the hard work of the dedicated team of the department. Their hard work and innovation means we can be even more strategic in how we invest in our sectors while ensuring we are as efficient as possible. When our government brought together community-focused programs and services under the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage two years ago, we expected that efficiencies and administration would be possible.

 

In the past year as the new department's structure has become fleshed out, that is exactly what has happened. It happened as we commemorated on the centennial of the Titanic disaster last April. Our many unique resources - heritage, culture, archives, shared administration - brought together a moving tribute. Breaking down silos meant that planning for the Titanic commemoration was easier, more efficient and innovative. This meant that the public here and around the world shared in a moving experience last April when this tragic moment was marked with history, performance and reflection in Halifax.

 

The sectors supported by the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage generate economic activity, encourage learning and build strong communities that advance our government's commitment to create good jobs and grow the economy for the benefit of all Nova Scotians.

 

Our artists, composers, craftspeople, performers, actors, writers and musicians are on the leading edge of creativity in our country and around the world. This government has made supporting the contribution of the arts and culture community a priority. Two years ago, Premier Dexter made that clear when he announced a five-point plan to build our relationship with the arts and culture sector and grow the creative economy. This is part of the province's plan to make life better for families and it shows we're doing things differently.

 

The five-point plan included input from nearly 1,000 Nova Scotians. It was influenced by the views of artists and organizations that advocate for them and lives up to our commitment to give them a strong voice in helping government determine its priorities for developing Nova Scotia's creative economy. I want to again list the elements of the five-point plan because they show we've listened to the sector and are acting to ensure their voices play a role in guiding our support for arts and culture in Nova Scotia.

 

The five-point plan included Status of the Artist legislation to recognize the importance of the arts to Nova Scotians; establishing Arts Nova Scotia, an independent body responsible for decisions on funding to individual artists and the organizations that support them; developing the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council to provide advice to government and lead the development of a culture strategy; strengthening communications with the sector to allow for better dialogue; and establishing an inter-departmental committee to coordinate government efforts to support arts and culture and address the needs and concerns of the sector.

 

Considering the elements of this plan, there can be no mistaking that arts and culture builds stronger communities: $1.2 billion in economic activity and $28,000 direct and indirect jobs are the result of artistic activity in Nova Scotia. Our investments directly impact government's commitment to make life better for all Nova Scotians through the creation of good jobs and economic growth, and we are delivering. The legislation to establish both the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council and Arts Nova Scotia was passed in the Fall 2011.

 

The members of the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council, under the leadership of their chairman Ron Bourgeois, have been hard at work. At the recent Growing a Creative Economy conference in Sydney, the council released its report, Culture: Nova Scotia's Future. The report is a result of extensive research on best practices and dialogue by the council with the sector. I'm pleased to say, we're already acting on the report with a new initiative in this fiscal year to increase funding for arts and cultural development in Nova Scotia. The first board of Arts Nova Scotia, made up of 11 distinguished members of the artistic community, was appointed in March 2012 with responsibility for $2.8 million in funding for individual artists and the organizations that support them.

 

The Status of the Artist legislation was the very first bill introduced in the Spring sitting of the House of Assembly a year ago. With this legislation, Nova Scotia has recognized the value of arts and culture to Nova Scotians and ensured artists will be treated with fairness and equity as we go forward.

 

The inter-departmental committee continues to look for ways to better coordinate the province's funding and support for this vital sector. That success of the inter-departmental committee in promoting co-operation across departments was highlighted with the announcement of Film and Creative Industries Nova Scotia in the Fall. Expanding the mandate of Film Nova Scotia, this agency includes a broad focus on supporting commercial growth for Nova Scotia's artists and creative businesses. The new approach will help Nova Scotians take advantage of new opportunities to grow our creative economy as we continue to turn the corner.

 

That is not the only way our government is enhancing support for cultural development. Last Fall, our government signed a memorandum of understanding with the Canada Council to support diversity in the arts. That agreement commits provincial funding of $225,000 over three years, along with another $225,000 from the Canada Council to support artistic development in our diverse communities. That's $450,000 over three years.

I believe passionately that ensuring creative excellence in our province includes a diverse culture and heritage, makes our communities better places to raise a family and achieve our dreams. It is the only way to ensure that when we speak of culture we think about it in the broadest and most expansive way possible. It's the right thing to do if we are to continue building a modern and progressive society where there is room at the table for everyone.

 

In the coming year, our support for cultural development in Nova Scotia is growing. Starting in 2013-14, new funding from the Support4Culture Program will be made available. Modeled on a highly successful Support4Sport lottery program that has enhanced sport and recreation in Nova Scotia, Support4Culture is expected to generate $2 million in new funding in 2013-14. That funding will be there for programs in arts, heritage preservation and interpretation and to enhance respect for the diversity that makes our communities such exciting places. I look forward to sharing more information and details about Support4Culture in the weeks ahead as details are fleshed out.

 

Support4Culture is one more way our government is acting on the priorities of Nova Scotians. Members of the arts and culture sector have called for enhanced support for broad cultural development in Nova Scotia. With the 2013-14 budget, our government is doing just that. I look forward to continuing to work with the arts and culture sector and the people of my department to advance our five-point plan and the development of the creative economy over the coming year.

 

Nova Scotia's heritage is at the heart of our communities and supports life-long learning through museums, libraries and archives. Through these institutions and the efforts of local heritage groups, that heritage remains accessible to visitors and residents alike. We're exploring innovative ways to make our heritage available to wider audiences. The Virtual Archives available on-line through the Nova Scotia Archives makes valuable pieces of our documentary heritage accessible at any time of the day for anyone with access to a computer and internet connection. That approach is not only making those resources more accessible than ever, it is also increasing the security of our collection by reducing the need to access the original item as frequently.

 

We're supporting the work of communities to preserve their history and tell their stories to Nova Scotians and visitors to our province. As I have mentioned, even as our government works hard to live within its means, we are providing stable funding to community-run museums through the Community Museum Assistance Program. In 2013-14, we will be providing $978,000 in grants to community museums - the same level as 2012-13.

 

An important piece of Nova Scotia's seafaring heritage is receiving a new lease on life as the restoration of the iconic Bluenose II in Lunenburg approaches completion. Not only is the restoration securing an enduring symbol of our maritime heritage, it is also showcasing the talents and skills of the companies that have joined forces for this project. The world knows that innovation is creating jobs and economic opportunity in rural Nova Scotia, thanks to the restoration.

 

Last September, thousands showed their love for Bluenose II when they came out to celebrate her re-launch on the Lunenburg waterfront. Against a backdrop of fog and mist, they watched history made when our rebuilt sailing ambassador slipped back into the waters of Lunenburg harbour. In the very near future, Nova Scotians will see Bluenose II make history again as her sea trials begin and she returns to public sailing. It bears repeating that this has been a unique and challenging project. It is matching traditional wood boatbuilding techniques and modern materials and standards that must be followed by any boat carrying passengers. The Bluenose II restoration has shown the world that Nova Scotia has what it takes for innovative projects.

 

I want to again commend the skilled crafts people of the Lunenburg Shipyard Alliance for their hard work and dedication as they have built a proud sailing ambassador. Our investment to the Bluenose II restoration fits with our government's jobsHere strategy and is creating a legacy of good jobs for the people of Lunenburg and all Nova Scotians.

 

The Lunenburg Shipyard Alliance - made up of Covey Island Boatworks, Lunenburg Industrial Foundry & Engineering, and Snyder's Shipyard - will be able to compete more effectively on future shipbuilding projects thanks to this project. They are already garnering international attention. They have been selected as the finalists for boatyard of the year by the U.K.'s Classic Boat Magazine. Working with these fine Nova Scotia companies means the benefits of this major infrastructure investment are staying in Nova Scotia, helping to make life better for families by creating good jobs. As we do, this will draw attention to the importance of preserving links to our industrious past to encourage a future that advances the well-being of all Nova Scotians.

 

Arts and culture also supports the social and economic health of Nova Scotians. With members of the sector and the organizations that speak for them, the department continues to explore ways to provide financial support to artistic and creative development. The new Support4Culture program I have mentioned means a new source of revenue to do just that. As our government continues to keep its commitment to make life better, we will work with our partners in the arts and culture sector across the public service to ensure that creativity and artistic excellence continue to define who we are as Nova Scotians.

 

Our music, art, literature, fine craft and the people who bring creativity to life in the arts and culture sector are one of the most important assets for reaching the wider world with a unique Nova Scotia voice. I know - and Nova Scotians know - that they challenge our perceptions, encourage us to reach further and explore new ideas and make us stronger on every level. Our Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage team works very hard to ensure that the arts and culture sector receives the support and attention it deserves. Members of the sector are involved in the decision making process surrounding funding programs to ensure that artistic merit and creativity are the benchmarks for awarding funding. I extend appreciation to my team for their dedication to not only their own disciplines, but the sector as a whole.

 

Our province is a leader in the socially responsible management and conduct of gaming activities. Building on research and analysis, best practices from other jurisdictions and lessons learned in Nova Scotia, our responsible gaming strategy is a balanced and measured approach that ensures programs and services valued by Nova Scotians continue to benefit from gaming revenues while at the same time reducing potential harm.

 

Our government takes seriously its responsibility to reduce the harm that problem gambling can cause. In keeping with that responsibility, the My-Play system for VLT use became mandatory last April - the first of its kind and made in Nova Scotia. Coupled with our commitment to slowly reduce the numbers of VLTs through attrition and sharpening the focus on research into problem gambling, we are ensuring Nova Scotia continues to lead on responsible gaming and reduces its reliance on VLT revenues.

 

In the coming year, the positive benefits of lottery revenue will extend for the first time to cultural development in Nova Scotia. Nova Scotia will continue to show our support for our artists, musicians and diverse communities through the Support4Culture program.

 

On a broader note, our professional team of people in the department will be working to enhance the relationships with our sectors and stakeholders as they pursue our plans for the coming year, and I am looking forward to being part of that team. I continue to be excited to help shape a vision for strong and healthy communities through this new department. We've made a good start down that road and are positioned for success in the year ahead.

 

With that, I want to thank the members of the committee and move estimates E2 and E44.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your enthusiasm throughout for your department. We're dealing with estimate resolutions E2 and E44.

 

Shall resolution E2 stand?

 

Resolution E2 stands.

 

Resolution E44 - Resolved, that the business plan of the Nova Scotia Provincial Lotteries and Casino Corporation be approved.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E44 carry?

 

The resolution is carried.

 

Thank you to you and your staff, and thank you members. That concludes the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage estimates. They are accepted. We don't vote on them here. The House will, of course.

 

We're going to take a five-minute break while the Department of Community Services sets up.

 

[10:53 a.m. The subcommittee recessed.]

 

[10:58 a.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Welcome, we will get started. It's the Subcommittee of the Whole House on Supply and we are dealing with the Department of Community Services.

 

Resolution E3 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $896,573,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Community Services, pursuant to the Estimate, and the business plan of the Nova Scotia Housing Development Corporation be approved.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: The honourable Minister of Community Services.

 

HON. DENISE PETERSON-RAFUSE: It is my privilege to be here today to present the Department of Community Services budget for the 2013-14 fiscal year. Before we get underway, I would like to introduce to the committee Rob Wood, my Deputy Minister, and George Hudson, the department's Executive Director of Finance and Administration who are here today to assist me.

 

I also wish to thank the staff in the Department of Community Services who dedicate themselves every day to help Nova Scotians, whether it is for our precious children and our youth, a single person who finds themselves facing one of life's many challenges, or a family struggling with financial issues, the Department of Community Services staff always want to help. Whether it is behind the scenes or on the front lines, the passion is there to make a difference.

 

There are hundreds of positive stories that never get out to the public level. Unfortunately, we live in a society that is fueled by media coverage focuses on the negative stories, even when the percentage of those stories are greatly less than the positive stories. Due to the nature of the work, the complexity of facts and the necessary privacy, the complete details are never presented, and staff are left dealing with the pressures of misinformation and misunderstanding. This is not to say when something needs to be changed, which will result in better outcomes, that staff understand the importance of that change. So I want to recognize the work of the Department of Community Services staff here today and offer my appreciation and gratitude for what they do each and every day in Nova Scotia.

 

This is now my fourth year as minister and I'm proud to say that our government continues to expand and improve our programs and services to Nova Scotians in need even in these challenging economic times. We are at all times focused on making life better for families, children and seniors, and while the estimates debate we are having today often centre around numbers, we cannot forget that this is really about the people of Nova Scotia and the services that they depend on.

 

This year we will be investing more than $896.6 million, plus $70 million more now accounted for through the Housing Corporation. This is to ensure the basic needs of individuals and families are met by providing financial support to persons in need and by protecting children and adults at risk. Our services will reach more than 200,000 Nova Scotians who rely on us for help. That's more than one-fifth of all Nova Scotians. I think it is important for Nova Scotians to reflect upon that.

 

I'd like to take a moment just to highlight the breadth of services we provide and to remind all Nova Scotians of the friends and neighbours who will benefit this year from the steps we are taking to improve the social safety net: 44,000 people will benefit from our Income Assistance Program; 38,000 children from low-income families will receive support through the Nova Scotia Child Benefit; 15,000 low-income seniors will be able to stay in their homes because of the Property Tax Rebate; and we have 18,000 tenants who receive shelter through public housing.

 

Additionally, 20,000 calls are received and handled each year by Child Welfare Services; more than 800 foster families will receive support; 8,000 income assistance recipients will benefit from employment supports; 25,800 child abuse register searches; more than 5,000 persons with disabilities are receiving placement and case management services; more than 2,000 families will benefit from housing repair grants; licencing services for 200 child care facilities; 340 homes and facilities providing residential care for persons with disabilities; and some 20 facilities providing residential and other support to children in care; additional financial support through the Poverty Reduction Credit Program for almost 15,000 income recipients, and from our government, the Affordable Tax Credit also; and grant management and funding support to over 600 service providers and community-based organizations.

 

You're hearing numbers, but the reality is these are people behind these numbers. This fiscal year will see us building on the significant amount of progress that we have made since 2009. Our government has invested over $420 million to support those in need. I believe it's very important once again to understand that these are numbers, but these are affecting people.

 

When you walk down the street in your community, the person you may pass - you could reflect upon the fact that they may have been helped because they received the Affordable Living Tax Credit, or maybe that person's grandmother received a rebate on their land or they no longer have to pay provincial tax because they received the GIS and we've made those changes; or maybe it's their sister and she knows that she is better off because she does not have to pay the HST on her home energy costs; or perhaps it's the person's cousin who is a little bit better off because their income assistance rates have gone up $47 since 2009. They also receive on top of that the Affordable Living Tax Credit and the Poverty Tax Credit, and their Nova Scotia Child Benefit has increased.

 

I know that there is still more to do and for me - often staff will tell you, I say it's not fast enough. But it's very important that we have been able to do this and balance a budget at the same time as invest in the people of Nova Scotia. Putting a budget together is hard work and it truly is about making the right choices. I believe that we have put forward the best possible budget to help Nova Scotians face the future.

 

When I talk about balancing the budget, it's very important for people to understand that it's not any dissimilar to your own personal life and how you plan your finances in your life. If you're in a position that you owe a lot of money and you have a lot of debt, your life becomes chaotic, you can make decisions on an ad hoc basis, and things do not turn good for you because of that. That's why it's so important that people on an individual basis have the ability to plan and be able to make the appropriate decisions. Your life is better when even on your own personal finances, you have the capacity to lower your debt or have no debt or balance your budget.

 

It is not any different for government. We do not have a little machine in a back room that we can make money so we have to make the hard decisions. But we do that with working with people and organizations in making those choices. This budget will allow us to achieve those priorities, which is to make life more affordable, to continue in our efforts to break the cycle of poverty and to contribute to the overall health and well-being of Nova Scotians while living within our means.

 

My department is doing its part to make life more affordable for Nova Scotians. This year we are again improving income assistance supports, as I mentioned, to 32,000 adult recipients; this is by investing an additional $5 million. On July 1^st, when income assistance recipients receive their cheques, they will see a 7 per cent raise in their personal use allowance to help cover the increased cost of food and other items. This is a $17 per month increase, and it represents the fourth year that we have increased income assistance. Since 2009, we have increased the Personal Allowance by almost 23 per cent - or $47 per month - and if you reflect in the past, you would never have seen those types of increases. I will admit it's still not enough, but we're moving in the right direction and that direction is forward.

 

We are also investing $650,000 to increase the maximum Property Tax Rebate for Seniors by $200 per month; we've done that twice and so the maximum now is $800. About 15,000 seniors qualify for this particular rebate. This allows them a break on their municipal taxes and for many it will assist them in being able to remain in their homes longer.

 

More than 4,000 seniors will benefit from this increase. Our government will continue the Affordable Living Tax Credit and the Poverty Reduction Credit to help low-income families make ends meet. Since July 2010, the Affordable Living Tax Credit has put $178 million back in the pockets of families in Nova Scotia. At the same time, 14,000 Nova Scotians most in need have received up to an additional $250 each year through the Poverty Reduction Credit.

 

In 2013-14, these credits will provide an additional $73.7 million to help reduce the impact of rising prices and help people meet everyday needs. I know that we're all experiencing the rise in costs. All you need to do is take a trip to the grocery store and you can see that, and that you know this is happening on a worldwide level. We're not the only province or country dealing with these types of issues.

 

Providing shelter and affordable housing for Nova Scotians in need remains to be one of our highest priorities. Having an affordable home is fundamental to the health and well-being of every Nova Scotian and their family. We know the importance and the safety that we feel when we leave here today and we go through the doors of our own home - just that feeling that comes over you when you go into your own home and feel safe. If you're fortunate to have family there to welcome you, it is a place of refuge, a place that you can spend with your family. As we know, we are very fortunate - those sitting here today - to have that available to us because there are many who do not.

 

This year we will invest $20 million in creating new affordable homes for hundreds of Nova Scotia families and for the repair and renovation of thousands of existing units. That's a very important factor because one of the challenges that we face in this province is that we have the oldest housing stock in Canada. It's not just in reference to public housing. Just take a little drive on a Sunday and go in the rural areas and look at the communities and go down some of the back streets and you'll see the older homes that people take a great deal of pride in; it has been in their families for years and they've passed their home down through generations. However, they face the difficulties of maintaining their homes and so we need to address that because the best place and the best choice for most Nova Scotians, because they want to do this, is to stay in their home longer.

 

Some of the things that we will be doing includes $22 million to upgrade the province's public housing stock; $7.7 million in co-operatives and non-profits; $20.4 million for the creation and preservation of 2,350 units; $9 million in the Residential Rehabilitation Assistance Program to assist over 1,200 households.

 

It has not been an easy four years, and you have to put it in perspective. All you have to do is listen to the news in the evening and know what's going on throughout this entire world and how some countries that we've never expected are facing financial bankruptcy. This government has worked very hard - the departments have worked very hard - to get our own house in order making good financial decisions and reallocating dollars, to ensure that we are able to provide the necessary services and to try to address the numerous needs that are in our society today. As I said, we want to do more, we need to do more, and we plan on doing more.

 

One of the things that I think is very different about this government is that from day one we have been accessible and we have taken our dedication to talk and to communicate with our stakeholders and advocates, and bring them to the table. The issues we face today in our province are issues that we have to come together and work together on, and not spend the time fussing and arguing with each other, but working on a strategy because we all want the same outcomes. Those outcomes are to support those in need, invest in people and create a better province to stay and live in and raise your family.

 

It is a fact - and people know - that when we came into government, that we discovered many things. There were financial pressures that no one realized that we would inherit. We also face the fact that unfortunately there was not a lot of long term planning - and planning is critical. I know that we live in a very political society and sometimes it looks like it's all about re-election and those decisions you make within that time frame. What's critical, though - and what we've done very differently - is to step outside of that and to plan for the future; plan for 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years down the road.

 

Once again, I will bring that back to our own personal situations. From the time that we are born, we have somebody at that point planning for us and having hopes and dreams, and as we grow, we learn more ourselves to be independent and learn about the need to plan. Those who have the ability and the support to plan in their lives typically are rewarded from that. Unfortunately, some people do not have those supports and do not have that ability, and that's what we need to come together to help them with. Those who can reach personal and independent success are those who have had the support and ability to plan, and it is no different for government. Government needs to plan beyond the political cycle, and that's exactly what this government has done. Despite all the daunting circumstances that face us today, we have still managed to make significant investments to support the needs of thousands of Nova Scotians.

 

As I said before, do we want to do more? You bet we want to do more, and with an improving fiscal position, we will be financially able to do so in the years ahead. It's no different than on a personal level - if you are financially stable, you have more opportunities in your life to invest in other areas, in your family and your children to get an education, to better their generation. Once again, it's no different for a government to think the same way.

 

I am extremely pleased that we will soon be announcing this province's first housing strategy. This is truly making history. We have worked very hard on developing this strategy. I often hear people ask, well why don't you have it out? Why isn't it there now? Why haven't you announced it - you've had four years? Well, if you look at the Department of Community Services, we have taken on a major task of changing the Department of Community Services from inside out. That takes time, that takes being strategic, that takes consultation. There isn't a division left in the Department of Community Services that we have not been transitioning into a different way of doing business. That different way of doing business is to be person-oriented and not so much policy-oriented.

 

It's not easy. You're taking generations and decades of doing business one way and trying to change a culture and give the staff who have dedicated themselves and worked in a particular type of system for years and years, and giving them the permission to start thinking outside of the box and to be able to align what policies are in there that may restrict them to think outside of the box, and to modernize the department so that the policies are not reflective of 10 or 20 years ago. It all takes time.

 

What it does is the fact that given the time, we have been taking our steps forward in a very consistent manner. On top of that, you deal with the pressures of humanity and the crisis that can happen each and every day, and to make sure that as you're trying to make changes at the same time you are trying to fulfil the daily needs. That's not easy because you're in transition, and it makes it very difficult for our staff because you may have a policy that is a 10 year-old policy, yet we are trying to transition into being more restorative, more person-oriented.

 

With respect to a housing strategy, there are quite a few firsts with this government and within the Department of Community Services. The housing component is critical and very important. I'm very pleased that we will have a real plan that deals with the needs. This government listened to Nova Scotians. I traveled around our province and I've been able to talk to people on an individual and group level, and to discover from them what their needs are on a personal level with housing, what their needs are as a community with respect to housing, and what they envision for the Province of Nova Scotia. It was a wonderful experience for me because people were so pleased that we were developing the first housing strategy in Nova Scotia and they know the importance of that.

 

Once again, by a snap of a finger it's not going to happen overnight, but if you do not plant the seeds and water your seeds, nothing will ever grow. You have to start at some point in order to reach a finish line at another point. If it's never started, you never get there, and what you find is that decades go by and nothing has been done, except on an ad hoc basis. That's not good enough anymore and that will not address the needs of the people of Nova Scotia.

 

What our Housing Strategy will do is encourage young people to stay in their communities, and help our seniors have a place to call home; to live in their homes longer. When I talk to seniors, that is one of the desires that I hear over and over again, and so we have to come together in order to provide the supports and needs to make that happen. When I say 'come together', that is not just under the auspices of the Department of Community Services. It's bringing a variety of government departments together, but it's also bringing partnerships together, bringing community together and individuals together to make to be a reality.

 

I am very pleased that we're taking leadership in this because any plan that you develop and implement takes leadership. I'm very proud that this government and my colleagues have supported me as the minister and our department to go forward with this leadership to develop Nova Scotia's first housing strategy. As we consulted, we spoke to over more than 500 Nova Scotians and we are still getting information, suggestions and opinions from people of Nova Scotia.

 

One of the things that was very important to me to communicate to the people that I've talked to across this province - one thing that our department has been encouraging - is the fact that this is not a plan that's going to be developed and put on top of somebody's filing cabinet and go, phew, we've got it done. This is a plan that has a lifecycle, and that lifecycle is no different from our own lifecycle. We are birthing a plan, we will see it as it grows, we will take the advice of Nova Scotians, and we will encourage them to provide us with their opinions and suggestions. We will encourage them to work with us as this plan grows and continues to grow in the years to come.

 

The strategy will provide modest and low income Nova Scotians with more opportunities for home ownership. They will be able to access more affordable housing and we will improve the access to housing and support services to seniors, and housing for persons with disabilities. We know that housing, as I've mentioned, is a key economic and social prosperity of Nova Scotia. It contributes to the growth of the provincial economy and the creation of good jobs. It is the centre of individual, family and community well-being.

 

Since 2009, more than 1,400 affordable housing units have been created, preserved or constructed. With our partners, we have invested $128 million in affordable housing throughout the province. The stimulus program helped us build 196 new homes and make five years of repairs and upgrades to public housing in just two short years, which was tremendous. I have seen for myself how hard staff has worked in order to make sure with the housing component that we were able to use stimulus dollars to the full degree. Now staff has dedicated themselves and they've been working basically around the clock to make sure that we have a housing strategy and framework to work with now and in the future.

 

We all know how important it is to have a roof over our head, and it's about feeling that you belong in this world and everybody has the right to feel to be a part of this world. It helps with your independence and it helps with your control over your own destiny. That's what every person deserves to have is control over your own destiny, and if they're in a position in their life that they are being challenged or they are unfortunate, then it's our duty to step up to the plate and help them. That is part of being a human being. It does sadden me when I look around - not just this province, but around the world and see in some areas that that's not the way that things are being done. So it is our duty to be in a position of leadership to make sure that message is loud and clear to every person in Nova Scotia that we have a responsibility to help to assist and to encourage individuals to have a better life and do what we can to make that life better.

We also cannot forget the 250 Nova Scotians who are experiencing homelessness and do not have a safe place to call home. I have visited homeless shelters, I have talked to individuals who are homeless and have lost their way and find it very difficult. Some have mental health issues and some of course have financial issues, family issues. There is not one quick answer in order to help these individuals; it's multiple answers that we need. That's the approach we have taken as a department and as a government - we need to look at a holistic model of support and that's exactly what we did. What we also did was talk to homeless individuals and advocates who have experience in that area to discover what we can do to do it differently. Obviously it hasn't worked for years and years, what has been done, because we are still facing the homelessness. As our society goes forward and we are feeling more challenges in terms of the world economic situation, we have to make sure that we do not forget those who are homeless and what we can do.

 

Through having discussions, we had discovered from those who are involved with homeless individuals and those who are homeless that what they need are more supports. Not just given a key to an apartment or a place to live and say, here you go, here's a place for you, but to work with them in a restorative manner; to be able to provide a variety of supports to identify for them. If you just think about ourselves when we need to gather some information and find out where we get services, how difficult that is for us, so imagine someone who is homeless and doesn't have those resources and they're walking in the streets. It's like they're walking into a pitch darkness in their lives, and such a darkness in society because they don't know what direction to go.

 

What we decided to do with the assistance and help of those who have been supporting homeless individuals for years and advocating is to create outreach worker positions and have those positions based in shelter operations. These outreach workers become not mentors, but almost a family partner with the homeless individuals because number one, first, there's somebody there who is caring for them. That's often lost because of the family history or issues that they may have with alcoholism or drugs that they've lost that family connection and they've lost that feeling of somebody caring for them.

 

I know that each and every one in this room today is fortunate because they know they have somebody at home who cares for them. Can you imagine not having that? So our outreach workers to the homeless individuals became somebody who cared for them. From there, what the outreach workers have been doing is to work with the individuals on their own life plan. When you become a part of working on your own life plan, you become more accountable, but you also become more dedicated to that because you start to see the light at the end of that dark tunnel.

 

This has been very successful and we were able to place over 250 individuals in their own shelter or home now - a place that they can call home. They know the supports are there and the supports have to be there on a continual basis. If they need medical support, they know that the person that they've developed this relationship with as an outreach worker cares and will be able to provide them with the correct information of where to get that support or bring that support to that individual. That is key in the success of this. It cannot stop once you have a home for an individual; it has to continue.

 

Once again, it is no different from ourselves that when we have family. Most of us are fortunate enough to have that family be with us our entire lives. At one point in our life it was our parents looking after us and our grandparents, and then it becomes us as parents - we have our children, we look after our children, then our children look after us. That's the circle of life and it is not any different for an individual who is homeless. The difference is that they are unfortunate that they do not have that and that is what our responsibility is - to bring that back to them.

 

It was very important for us to partner with community, business, non-profits on this particular project, and we need to do more of it. We need to look at not just in Halifax and how that will work, but other parts of the province because each and every community, like each and every person here, are different and have different needs. They have some commonality too, but there are always different needs and we need to be flexible enough in government and in our Department of Community Services to actually meet those needs, rather than try to fit a square peg in a round hole and say, I'm sorry you don't fit so we don't have a service for you. That type of mentality has to change and we've been working very diligently to change that. It will take time. We have over 2,000 staff in the Department of Community Services and we need to be able to provide the staff with the resources and support to enable them to change and give them the opportunity to make those changes.

 

I want to relate one of the stories with respect to one of our outreach support housing workers because I think it's very important that we humanize our stories because this is what it's really all about. There is a gentleman named Paul Craig and, as I mentioned, he is one of our housing workers and he is doing outreach work and he's doing it from the Salvation Army Halifax Centre of Hope on Gottingen Street. He understands and is seeing the hard work that is being done by the outreach workers and he's seeing a difference, and he's seeing how lives are now being turned around.

 

I've had the pleasure of meeting Paul at the Centre of Hope not so long ago, and he described to me the positive impact of this program. He told me a story - and it's a true story - about a man in his mid-30s and his wife had died. The man had a breakdown and he needed mental health support. He also had to go to court and he was living at the centre on Gottingen Street. His life was torn apart in a minute and no one in this room should ever forget that could happen to any one of us. We could go out today and something could happen to a loved one; something could happen to ourselves to change our whole family dynamic. I experienced this myself this summer with the sudden death of my brother from a massive heart attack. My family dynamic is now changed forever; I don't have him anymore. In my position, people will look and say, well, you're a leader, you're strong, but when something like that happens, you need your family, friends and colleagues. My colleagues all rallied around me to try to get through this, and you'll never get through it.

 

It's no different for those individuals who are homeless or those individuals who we try to help each and every day. They have stories. They have stories like Paul talks about. Can you imagine in your mid-30s and losing your loved one, your soul mate, and what that means to you? So this individual needed mental health supports, but even more so than those mental health supports, he needed to know that there was a person in his life who cared for him, and that was the outreach worker.

 

Now this gentleman, because of the holistic approach that we have taken with regards to homelessness and working with people as human beings and because he's getting the support of a mental health program, he is in a furnished apartment. His daughter is able to visit him and be a part of his life because it's very difficult when you're a family member and you're dealing with somebody who has had a mental breakdown and all the ramifications of that. His life is starting to come back together, so I know we are making a difference when we make these types of decisions.

 

It's much stronger to me as a minister to be able to be on the streets and talk to individuals who have been supported by what we have done and what we are doing, or those who are addressing issues that I may never have thought of or my department staff have not thought of. The only way you learn is to talk to people and to empathize with their experience and know that it's real. That is much more important to me than the numbers; it's about people.

 

As I said, our outreach workers know that this approach is working. For me, we need to do more and we need to support each other to do more. Paul has said, I have to know that person to advocate for them. We not only add supports and do home visits, we do more so that eventually they won't need us any longer, but we will always continue - as I know Paul said to me, we will always continue to have that relationship. You know what it's like in our own lives, we may have friends who we haven't talked to for five, six or seven years, but we know they're still around and it's like the outreach workers. Once we are able to support individuals and they can have their independence, they still have that feeling in their lives that they know they can go back to their outreach worker or to the department and get that support. That's very important and that's the way the department needs to be structured and those are the supports we need to give to our staff to enable them to do that.

 

As a minister, from day one I have been very committed to working towards breaking the cycle of poverty. I'm very proud to say that our budget does maintain the level of service for more than $200,000 Nova Scotians. I know that these individuals and the other individuals that we will be supporting in the future need more. We've done a lot, but they need more.

 

Poverty is a tough one. Often people don't want to talk about it, but we must talk about it, and we must look at how we can discuss together breaking that cycle of poverty. That means partnerships; that means coming together to do that. Government can't do that on their own - that's the reality of the world we live in. We need partnerships and we need voices. I congratulate the advocates who come and march outside of this House to bring attention to their issues. As a minister, there is nothing that pleases me more than go up and to talk to those individuals and groups and to find out what their needs are, but at the same time, explain to them where we need to be working together. That's the important part - is to be working together and having a plan.

 

The other aspect in my job that's important to me is to be able to make a difference in the lives of those who have a disability. I often say that I actually look at those individuals and in my mind I say those are individuals with ability, not the disability because I can tell you one thing - I have not met a person with an intellectual disability that has not been inspiring and motivating to me and the challenges that they face or an individual who has a physical disability and is in a wheelchair and trying to maneuver around our streets in the province or trying to get into an elevator, and they do it with motivation, they do it with grace. So when they advocate for improving their lives, I think that is terrific. I think that is wonderful because that's how change is going to be made.

 

One of the things also that is important with persons with disability is we have dedicated ourselves to making change internally within our department so there is a transition taking place as we speak with regard to the support, to the resources and to the strategy that must be put in place within our department.

 

I know that this is Budget Estimates so I want to address the fact that our departmental budget - when you look at it on paper - is down slightly this year and it's important as always to have the correct information of why that is. This is due in large part to the accounting changes that were recommended to us by the Auditor General, and so we took those recommendations. On the Auditor General's recommendation, $70 million of the Department of Community Services Housing Services budget is no longer accounted for here. That money is now found in the Nova Scotia Housing Development Corporation Budget and continues to support the housing needs of Nova Scotians.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: If I could just interject and I'm sorry for this. I always give a 10-minute warning to each caucus that time is about to expire and you have been going for 50 minutes so far. The maximum that you can go is another 10 minutes, so just a warning. You're welcome to finish at any time, but you have up to 10 minutes.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: I'll probably use it. Now you know why my husband always tells me he's going to send me to Michelin to get my tongue re-treaded.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please continue - sorry for interrupting. It's just a policy I have of warnings.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: I love my husband dearly - we'll be married 25 years this May.

 

It's important to know that the Auditor General also recommended that we move to a more efficient, transparent model, and this is a much more transparent way of accounting for our housing support. There is also an adjustment to our forecast of $28 million and this results from our government's decision last year to move to a national standard and adopt an accounting rule change that is mandated under the Public Sector Accounting Board of Canada. So there is a very clear explanation to the reduction in the Department of Community Services budget. In no manner and no way has this affected the services and supports that we provide to our clients.

 

What's important to note that when we initially came into government, we tried to address the gaps that were gaps in the system for needs that were, what we would have termed as, high priority needs. As we've been moving along over the years, we're now back into a planning stage and this is a year of planning for us, as you know, with the Housing Strategy, with the changes with our SPD - Services for Persons with Disabilities, and with what we're doing under Children and Family Services. Once again, what we are doing is we are taking the time to be strategic, to consult, to work with people to develop a plan together.

 

It's also important to know with our accounting changes that there will not be any penalizing those who receive income assistance cheques. What we've done is we've made sure that when that change is made that we have invested another $1.5 million that as the payment schedule changes, individuals will not have any adverse effects because of that because there will be those extra dollars to get them through the several days that will need to take place in order to make that transition and when they actually receive their cheques.

 

We have also experienced budget savings because of the efficiencies and the changes that we have been making within that department, which has reduced our expenses by $7.6 million. I think that is something that is important and we should congratulate staff and government and our department for doing because just throwing money at issues is not the way to resolve issues; it's being strategic; it's being able to know that you can reallocate dollars that you have to have a better service and provide better supports and programs to Nova Scotians.

 

It certainly is our commitment in making life more affordable for Nova Scotians and we've done that through a variety of means, and I've talked about that today. I know we'll get into discussions as we go forward and the questions are asked by members of the Opposition that we will be able to explain to them what those numbers are about, the changes that we have made, where we have made those. We are completely transparent and that's a good thing and we're very proud of the work that we have done. I'm very proud as a minister of the work of the staff of the Department of Community Services because I'm telling you, it cannot be easy to have changes on the political side - having different people coming in, making different demands, et cetera.

 

I have a great deal of respect for our staff and what they have done and what they are trying to do and how they are embracing the changes that we have made. I see an excitement in our staff. I was talking today again with a staff member about the housing strategy and how excited staff is that we're going forward with this and the opportunities that this will present.

 

Mr. Chairman, can I ask how many minutes I have?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have three minutes remaining.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Okay, I could use those. As some of you probably notice, I haven't gone through all the pages that I have here in writing because I diversify and the reason I do that - I want to tell a story because a story is the truth. The story is about human beings - the stories are about successes and the stories are about failures. We are human and we will make mistakes, but we need to pick up from any mistakes we make and learn from them, but the key in all of this is not to forget. This is not just about numbers. This is about people and how we truly can make a difference in somebody's life. That's what we strive to do each and every day, and that's what our staff strive to do each and every day.

 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I might have 30 seconds left.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much and certainly the first hour will go to the Liberal caucus. At this time I will call on Ms. Regan for the Liberal caucus for one hour.

 

MS. KELLY REGAN: Thank you to the minister and her staff for coming in here today. Overall the budget is down over $80 million estimate over estimate, but the total forecast shows the department was over $50 million underspent last year. Given that there's no decreased need in services, what would warrant this under-spending?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: As I had just mentioned with respect to the changes in the department, that is what is reflected in that - that would be the changes for the housing budget and how that has been taken out. That would also be the changes, as I mentioned, in the accounting practices and so that is where - and as I mentioned, there are no negative ramifications to that to the clients we support.

 

MS. REGAN: I don't think the minister understood my question. I wasn't talking about estimate over estimate. I said the total forecast, which was what was actually spent last year shows the department was under-spent by $50 million. I asked about the under-spending last year.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: The forecasting, once again, the $70 million that was taken out and then there was $28 million added back in.

 

MS. REGAN: Sorry, I don't think that's correct, with respect. We're talking about last year's budget.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Once again, that's what the result of the difference is. You're looking under the Housing Services, correct?

 

MS. REGAN: I'm looking at the total budget. If you go to the very first page, Page 5.1, and the estimate was 977,924 - so we're talking millions - and what was actually spent was 937,615. If you look at the estimate for this year, that's when that money comes out. It should not have been out last year. Am I correct?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: If you look at Page 5.2, that's where you will see under the Housing, the difference that was taken out on the $70 million and then the Employment Support and Income Assistance where the additional $28 million is added.

 

MS. REGAN: Now, can the minister give an overview of other cuts that were made from last year to this year?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Once again, it's the $70 million that is taken out of our budget to go to the separate budget in Housing, so that's a reduction of $70 million. The others is with respect to the changes in the accounting practices, which will result in the difference that you're talking about.

 

MS. REGAN: So is the minister saying that there were no other cuts made in the budget for your department?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: The other reductions that you're speaking of is not a large amount compared to the $70 million, but those reductions are based on the forecasting of more individuals. We're doing a total review of ESIA - Employment Support Income Assistance Program about forecasting - working with the Department of Labour and Advanced Education so that would be reflected in there. The fact is that because we're forecasting more of those individuals to be moving into employment and we're also increasing the income assistance, as I mentioned, so that would be reflected in there.

 

The other cuts that you would see would be the cost of computers and the purchasing process on those computers. The other is the generic drugs - the savings that we have received on the purchasing and the utilization of the generic drugs.

 

MS. REGAN: On Page 5.2, the budget line for senior management is increased by $354. What would account for this increase and what additional staff will be hired?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: The increase there - there are two reasons for that increase. Number one is that we have an additional ADM in the department plus a secretarial person to support the ADM. That position is critical for us because we're making so many changes in the Department of Community Services and because of all the planning that we've been doing. As I said, the changes that we are making within the Department of Community Services are changes that have never been done before at the level that have been done. It's everything from service delivery to restorative approaches to SPD, the changes to that particular division, what supports we need to bring in. We've also created an adoption strategy.

 

There is a long list of changes that we have initiated and it takes having somebody - an additional person with support - who has the ability to do project management and to focus on those. It's actually an increase in our senior management, but it's a vital, critical increase because you need the tools to be able to make the change or you're not going to make the change to better support and serve people.

 

The other change is that for the first time in this province, we will be working towards a framework for a disability strategy. That is a huge undertaking, so the reflection in the budget for senior management is support services for the disability commission. If you look at their staffing level, they're very limited and they would never be able to take on that type of change.

 

We have consulted with many of the advocacy groups around how we go forward with a framework for a disability strategy, because there are so many different components to that. What came out loud and clear is that in order to make those changes, you need to have the resources to make those changes in terms of people and the support of having staff people that can be able to work with our stakeholders and working with community, working with government and to be able to develop a plan. Three of those individuals are actually placed with the disability commission and they will be working with supporting the commission in the consultation process.

 

The consultation process will be a huge undertaking because you're talking about looking at everything in terms of the disabled community, what their needs are, what they forecast their needs to be; the changes that are happening every day in society with technology. They are huge projects and if we want to be successful in those projects, we need to have the staffing resources in order to make that happen.

 

MS. REGAN: So from that answer, I am to understand that there are three individuals who are involved in creating the framework for the disability strategy and that there is a new ADM and a secretarial support person for that ADM. What is the ADM the ADM of?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Well that particular individual is focused on project management. We have two ADMs now in the Department of Community Services. The Department of Community Services is an overwhelming department to work in and to lead because of the fact that the decisions that are made are decisions that affect people's lives. We all know about those issues that come to the floor of the House, the discussions, how many people are involved in the province and have a stake in what happens in community services.

 

It is very important that the transitions that we are making within that department, we will not be successful if we do not have somebody who is dedicated in that transition. That is the purpose of having another ADM, to focus - and it's much needed. It has not been done in this province. Things have been ticking along basically the same old-same old and we're thinkers outside of the box. We want to make change, and we want positive change. We have consulted with Nova Scotians, and we continue to consult with Nova Scotians.

 

I was amazed when I became the minister and invited advocacy groups to the table, how many have never been inside the Department of Community Services or been at the minister's table to have a discussion to provide their information and their side of what they feel needs to be done by government and what kind of leadership government needs to take. These transitions do not happen overnight and they do not happen because you're just thinking about them. You need somebody who has the ability to have project management skills in order to do that transition.

 

The other part of that position is to focus and work with Mr. Michael Bach who we have brought in from the Institute for Research and Development on Inclusion and Society and that is a huge step in this province. That is moving towards more independence for those with a disability to be able to look at how we reduce the reliance on the institutions and move towards more community options, more community living. We have financial challenges in order to do that. We don't have the infrastructure that we need to have, but we also have the pressures and we have advocacy groups that want to see that quicker than what may be possible for us to do. We are bringing everybody to the table so people understand and will work with us towards that direction.

 

Once again, it's another one of those issues where if you do not address them and start taking steps towards making those changes, it will never happen. I can certainly understand from the individuals that I talked to and the groups that I talked to their frustrations because we've only been here not quite four years and they've been working and pushing for these changes for years and years so there is a great deal of impatience, and I respect that impatience because they have had to deal with the fall-out and the issues that they experience because no government has moved in that direction or it has been more on an ad hoc basis.

 

We are committed and dedicated to the changes and so we need to have leadership in that. That comes from having person in the position that can be doing project management, doing communications, working with our experts and professions, and working with the community and the advocacy groups, so we are working on a plan together.

 

MS. REGAN: I would note - I just asked whether you were hiring five people and we really didn't need 10 minutes on it.

 

Is this ADM, in fact, the ADM for transformation? Is this the person who we've been hearing about - the ADM of Transformation? Is that who this person is?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Well first, the reason that I discussed it for 10 minutes is because information is powerful and there is always too much misinformation. That misinformation creates perceptions that are not reality so this is my opportunity as a minister to explain why we have made the decisions; why we have created a position to have somebody who is in charge of our transformation. Basically, you asked the question if that is that person's responsibility and that is their main focus - to be able to work with us.

 

You can imagine when you're trying to make change just in one division how much work that takes. We're doing change - in basically every division we're taking ESIA and totally revamping the way that service is provided. We are working with the poverty advocacy groups in terms of a holistic manner; how we approach reduction in the poverty cycle in this province. We have created a new adoption strategy that looks at how we can encourage people to look at adopting older children so we have been focusing on that.

 

We have been focusing on the foster families for the first time. I was very proud as a minister to be able to increase the foster families per diem the first time in 10 years to recognize the significance of foster families and the need to have more foster families in this province. We have many children who are under the care of the minister and they deserve to have a home and they also deserve to have a home for life that we need to work towards.

 

The other changes that we have been making has been in respect to - as you know - the housing and all the work that needs to be done to set up a framework to gather information, to talk to Nova Scotians, to work out the process for a housing strategy, at the same time look at what our financial situation is and all the pressures and needs that come to us as a department. The whole housing component in the department is also being changed.

 

At the same time, we're bringing in a new culture and philosophy called restorative approaches and so we have to focus on what that means - how do we encourage staff to embrace restorative approaches? One of the things you cannot do - and you wouldn't be very restorative - is if you in turn told people that they have to embrace this philosophy. What you have to do is to manage that change and you need to be able to work with your staff and allow them to experience the positivity that comes out of embracing restorative practices. We have been very focused on that and we've been doing training in that area. We have staff people or a staff person who is dedicated to that, but works with this ADM in order to make sure that takes place.

 

The other important factor that we cannot forget is our internal communications and our external communications. Because of the nature of the business with the Department of Community Services as often being in crisis management mode or being reactive, that needs to change. People need to know that being preventive is a better measure and in the long term that not only helps the people who we're supporting, but it also makes a difference freeing up resources and saving dollars that we can put in other areas to support the many pressures that we have in that department.

 

To invest in an ADM who is focused on these transformations is critical if we want this to truly happen. That is a much needed position and certainly will be a reason that we'll be able to go forward with our plans.

 

MS. REGAN: The minister should know that any time she gives those really long answers, that's really when I think there's a red flag there because you're trying to talk it out and not just give me the answer that should be really quite easily delivered in about a sentence or two.

 

So we have the ADM for Transformation. What services are offered through the field offices?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: I'm sorry I was - can you ask that again?

 

MS. REGAN: What services are offered through the field offices?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Once again, there are no red flags. The only flag here is an orange flag and that flag means transformation, planning, and strategizing. (Interruption) Glad you have a sense of humour - that's good too.

 

The reason I'm explaining it is because I have to tell you as going in as Minister of the Department of Community Services and being there for almost four years that there are things you will learn each and every day and it is amazing the work that is done in that department. Even when I was talking about the changes, we also cannot forget our protection services and those individuals who are focused on children in care.

 

You have asked me about the field offices and what those field offices are. Our office in Halifax, I would say, is the heart of the Department of Community Services. From there, in order for the flow of services - like our hearts - it's pumping from that point of view and that is sending out resources and support to communities. That's what our field offices do. They are entwined in everything that I just talked about in terms of providing resources and support for those on income assistance; being a part of the team for children and family services; being able to help people find employment; being able to work with people in the community for housing needs.

 

The field offices are where the work at the community level takes place, and the work that really touches the heart of the community because it's working with individuals; it's working with families; it's working with other partners.

 

MS. REGAN: What you're saying is that this is a very crucial part of what the Department of Community Services actually spends their money on and yet we note that it was underspent by quite a significant amount last year. I'm just wondering what would account for that?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Being underspent would be mainly because of staff vacancies and the time frame that it takes to go through the process to fill those particular vacancies. That is something that is seen each and every year in budgets from every department.

 

MS. REGAN: What you're saying is that the field offices underspent by $780,000 because you couldn't staff those offices?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Also included in that is when you look at what we've been working very hard with staff, and they have been very good about this, is to look at bulk-buying; what we can do in order to save money. So they've looked at office furniture, looking at the bulk buying process and so that's reflected. It's actually a good thing because what's happening is that staff are understanding and are also pursuing our recommendations that we need to be saving money in different areas. They've been very diligently doing that, so that's actually a good reflecting in the budget.

 

MS. REGAN: In terms of not being able to hire enough qualified staff, how much of that $780,000 would be attributed to that?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: The primary numbers there is with respect to staff training, building alterations. We don't have all the breakdown to the specific details today, but we can get you those numbers so you can see how that is reflected back into our budget.

 

MS. REGAN: That would be appreciated. What would be cut in order to reach the budget target for next year, which is a further cut of $279,000?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Once again, that is the vacancy factor and we are actually working with the Public Service Commission to develop a better strategy of a faster process in hiring, but that's what that number reflects. Because it does take time to hire people and it goes through a process with the Public Service Commission, there are positions that are not filled. I know even from my perspective and staff's perspective, you'd like to see that process go faster, so we are actually addressing that with the Public Service Commission at this time.

 

MS. REGAN: So when I asked you what services were offered through the field offices, I just find it difficult to comprehend how all those services can get offered when we have all these vacancies year after year. In fact, we're actually planning for a vacancy on a go-forward basis. We're planning for almost $300,000 in vacancies this coming year. Of course, that's not sustainable because eventually you will hire some people. I'm just a little confused about that.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Those positions that you're referencing are positions that are more at the administrative level; they're not at the - what we would term - the grassroots level of your front line staff who are working with communities and individuals. It's at the administration level so sort of like at your supervisory or middle management level.

 

MS. REGAN: Again, we'll get that breakdown from you later. The budget line for services for persons with disabilities was overspent by $15 million. I'm wondering if you could just outline how that was overspent and what the unexpected expenditure was.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: There are two elements to that. One of the elements would be the change in the accounting process would be reflected. Also, what's reflected with regards to that is the cost for individual cases and the complexity of those cases.

 

MS. REGAN: Now the estimate for this line is $8.6 million less than the forecast for 2012-13. I'm wondering, what's going to be cut in order to achieve this budget target? I'm assuming that suddenly cases aren't going to get less complex, for example.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: No, it's not reflective of the cases at all. It's once again the change in the accounting practices. Actually if you look at the budget we have increased SPD by $7 million in order to provide the forecasting of more complex cases that we have to deal with.

 

MS. REGAN: Can you outline what services are offered under Family and Children Services? This could be a long answer, I realize that.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: As you know and I know that you knew this when you were asking the question, there is a great deal of responsibility in terms of under Children and Family Services. You would be looking at such things as child welfare and the residential services that are provided under child welfare, the children services and the field staff with respect to children services, community residential services, the direct grant programs that we provide funding for, the early childhood development services, early childhood programs, early intervention, maintenance of children, the payments to our child development centres, transition houses, women centres, and intervention programs.

 

MS. REGAN: So the budget line for Family and Children Services is underspent by $3 million. I'm just wondering was there less need than expected?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: The estimates for the maintenance of children is one and it has decreased by almost $5 million. The reason for that change is first, with respect to case aides and in the past years the child welfare sector contracted para-professionals to perform the work and what they were doing was transportation, access to facilitation, family supports and youth alternative work. This cost had been funded under maintenance of children through grants and contributions. For 2013-14, the funded complement for children services and the department has actually increased by 120 full-time equivalents. This cost is funded under the children services field through salaries and benefits and some small operating costs.

 

The service delivery model is much more costly and while the maintenance of children and grants have decreased by $2 million, the cost of salaries and benefits have increased by more than $5 million. Under child welfare we have more success in our placement of children; we don't have as many children in case as we had before which is once again a very good thing. Our strategy is working in terms of adoption and increasing the number of those who are being adopted. We have approximately 900 children in care, but we've been working very diligently to find them forever homes. That is what would be reflective in that - along with the Family and Children Services division, as I mentioned, we are seeing positive results of our residential redesign that we've been doing. We have stabilized the number of children in care and in custody under the minister.

 

We have also decreased the number of out-of-province placements and one of the positives that has helped us with this is certainly the construction of the Wood Street Residential Treatment Centre. It has now been completed and it's an 18-bed facility and it was opened on February 18^th to accept youth. They're being moved into the facility in three groups of six or more over the next eight weeks.

 

It is actually a positive rather than a negative in terms of what it is showing - our strategy for adoption is working. We're able to address more of the issues with respect to our youth in terms of the services that they need to provide with the youth at risk, so we are not required to have as many out-of-province placements, which is a positive; and that we also now have a facility in the Province of Nova Scotia to address the needs of high risk youth. All those things that I'm stating are actually positives for the department.

 

MS. REGAN: This line has now also been reduced by $5 million if we look at estimate over estimate. I'm wondering what's being cut in order to achieve these targets or is it as you say that the need for these services is decreasing? I have to tell you, in terms of adoption, I have been contacted about long waits for adoption and not just for babies, but we're talking older children. Quite frankly, I don't understand - if we have people who want to adopt older children - why they're not getting their training and assessment and moving through the system posthaste.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: That's exactly why we are developing a strategy. We have been able to increase the number of adoptions. We do realize exactly what you said, that there are situations where the time of the process for adopting seems to be quite long, especially if you are a parent, family or individual who has gone forward with the adoption process and your excitement of having a child in your home and in your life.

 

We have recognized that and that's exactly why we have developed a new adoption strategy and have focused on older children. In that strategy, if you have an opportunity to review it, you will see that our ultimate goal is to have a forever home for our children who are in care under the minister. They deserve the right to have a forever home and so we are moving along.

 

Once again, that's actually a positive to see that we have more children who are going to forever homes. It's not just a matter of - well, the results of that means a decrease in cost to us. What really matters is that we're succeeding in changing a child's life by being able to provide them with a forever home.

 

MS. REGAN: It does seem to me that if we do want to encourage people to adopt and we want to have children in their permanent homes, that asking people to wait for two or three years to adopt an older child doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me and, quite frankly, that child is two or three years older, and they've been in care during that time.

 

When I see something that says to me that we're cutting money to a program where there is a wait list, where there are people who want to adopt children and they're not proceeding through the system - they're being told there are excessively long waits. That does not make sense to me.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: That's exactly my point of why we're changing it, and we're starting to see the results of that. It is a priority for us to change the process and the time element and we already have done that. If you look at the number of children who have been adopted over a year, we have gone from 162 to 234. I guess the evidence is in the numbers that our strategy is working but it takes time. This is a new strategy that was just introduced over the last year.

 

We also have involved a lady, Sue Mercer - many people will know her brother Rick Mercer - she has been very much involved in our transition to encouraging people to adopt older children. She has dedicated a great deal of time and we thank her for that because she has adopted older children. It was her frustration with the process and how long it took that she was very much willing to come on board with us and advise us and work with us on what steps we need to put in place to change that. She also felt so compassionate about the rewards that she has received by adopting older children that she was very passionate about helping us out.

 

If you look at the numbers since 2009, the adoption rates have gone up every year. We're looking at a rate of 13.5 per cent, 2012-13, and that's a comparison to 12.1 per cent last year. When you look at that data, that's telling me and telling others that's a good thing and that we as a government have recognized that has been an issue and it needed to be addressed, and we are addressing it. The results are showing to be positive.

 

MS. REGAN: Would the minister say that the start-to-finish time to adopt a child has, in fact, decreased during this time?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: It's like anything you do - we have to gather the data on that. This is new and so people still will have different experiences and it's like anything when you implement it, the process will take time and we're only going to be able to analyze that by taking that data after a period of time. It is unfair for us within two or three months to look at that data because that's not going to be reflective of what is actually taking place.

 

So we don't have the full data at this point, but that is a normal process for any change for anything that you do that you have to implement. You have to strategize, develop a framework, develop a plan, and you need to be able to train staff on that new plan. You need to be able to make the public aware, make it more accessible, and to be able to have a period of time to see if that implementation and that plan is actually working.

 

Once again, that brings me back to the significance of the questions that you had with respect to having another ADM in our department. That is another part of that individual's job because the job is focusing on transformation, changes, how those are implemented and how those changes are being monitored for their success.

 

MS. REGAN: When was the new adoption strategy started? When did it come into effect?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: It took us time to actually - like any change is to look at what we were offering to analyze what the process was, what we were doing; to be able to identify what we were doing right, what we were doing wrong; gather information; and then to be able to develop a framework; to also have consultation - bring somebody like Sue Mercer in who could take a lead on this to be able to provide us with the actual insight of the experience of adopting through our system.

 

It's probably only about six months ago that we actually had it to the point that we could start implementing it. It is actually a work in progress, so really it hasn't been that long of a period that we have actually focussed on these major changes and having our ADM manage those changes and to monitor those changes.

 

MS. REGAN: So, in fact, when you're comparing the 2011-12 adoption rate to the 2012-13 adoption rate, you can't really chalk it up to that new strategy because the new strategy had not come in yet. Is that correct?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: I think that you can draw a parallel back to that strategy because of the fact that discussions were taking place within the department long before that strategy was put on paper and long before we started the implementation process, so it's reflective of change. When you want to make change, you do not just overnight switch on a light switch and have a change there; there are discussions about that. Staff knew that we were moving in this direction so the focus with staff well before the strategy was actually put together was in the mindset of our staff.

 

Although we've been more aggressive the last six months when we actually implemented it was when we started the implementation process was in June 2012. I believe that there is the ability to draw a parallel to those changes since 2009 because the conversation started very early on and the direction to staff was that we wanted to make a change in the process. We wanted to be able to look at what we are doing right and what we aren't doing right in order to make those changes. Yes, certainly you can reflect that back to those discussions and to start to change the mindset and the way that we do business around adoptions.

 

MS. REGAN: Would the minister be able to provide us with the adoption rates for the last number of years - say, from 2008 on? I don't expect you'll have them here today.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: We can certainly provide you with that information.

 

MS. REGAN: In terms of the line for Housing Services, it's down by $69.9 million as we discussed. How are these funds going to be managed? Will they be managed by the Nova Scotia Housing Development Corporation? Will the deputy minister as CEO for the Nova Scotia Housing Development Corporation be responsible for managing these funds or will there, in fact, be a board?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: The answer to your question is that it is under the auspices of the Nova Scotia Housing Development Corporation. The dollars that we're talking about would be the municipal and the federal dollars that have been transferred out at the recommendation of the Auditor General to be reflective individually with the Nova Scotia Housing Development Corporation.

 

MS. REGAN: So will the deputy minister be responsible for managing the fund?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: The organizational structure is one and we can provide you with an organizational chart so you're able to see that under the legislation it has the deputy minister, what would be reflective as being the CEO, however, under that line of responsibility there is - I don't know, I think it's termed executive director or there's a position of where there's another individual that would be responsible.

 

MS. REGAN: So two people are managing this money?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Presently the way that the structure is, it is still under the deputy minister, however, the dollars that we're talking about are the monies that comes to us through municipal and federal contributions and that's what the AG had recommended that we show them as being separate and that's why we separated those dollars.

 

MS. REGAN: And so to be clear, who is managing the money? Who is on the board of the Nova Scotia Housing Development Corporation? Who is responsible for managing the money that comes to that corporation?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: As you know we are developing a housing strategy and that strategy will be soon announced and how that is going to be managed, but presently the structure is under the Minister of Community Services with the deputy minister. So it would be presently the structure is those two positions that are responsible for the housing corporation.

 

MS. REGAN: Employment support and income assistance is down estimate over estimate by $12 million this year, but the line was overspent by nearly $19 million last year. In order to reach the 2013-14 budget target, there are going to have to be reductions of over $31 million. I'm just wondering what will be cut to reach this target? I understand you're saying some people are going to be moving into employment, but really do you seriously think that $31 million will be moving in that direction?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: There's two components to that. Once again, it is the change in the accounting practices to meet the national guidelines, that makes quite a bit of difference and the other is that we are actual seeing more people being employed and it's not just because that is the way it is. It's because we have been strategizing for that very reason and that is why we are actually redesigning ESIA and bringing in supports and working with Labour and Advanced Education on initiatives in order to help people make that transition from income assistance to being employable.

 

MS. REGAN: So you're saying there's nothing being cut to reach the target?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: I will add that the other component is what we talked about in terms of generic drugs and Pharmacare. No, as I stated in my opening remarks that there is nothing being cut or reduced in terms of affecting our clientele and the dollar amount or the support that they put presently receive, it will not change whatsoever. Any changes that will be made will be positive changes because of the work that we've been doing through strategizing and developing action plans for those clients.

 

MS. REGAN: The Budget Speech noted that personal assistance rates are going up by 7 per cent this year. If the overall budget for this line item is going down, are we assuming then that fewer people will be getting assistance or that the eligibility rules are changing?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Once again, it's the result of the change in the accounting practices along with, as I said - because of the work, it's a positive story here that we have been able to come in three and a half years ago and start strategizing right away, making changes, creating new models and one of our priorities and focus has been with the whole redesign of ESIA and also looking at how we can support individuals to transition to employment. Those are the two major factors that are resulting in the budget amounts that you are speaking of.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Could I just interject that we are about five minutes from the close of the Liberal caucus's first turn. Ms. Regan.

MS. REGAN: Thank you for the heads-up. Now that it has been nearly two years, can you please tell us how much money the department saved through changes to the special needs policy?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: We don't have that detailed information with us today, but we can provide that to you.

 

MS. REGAN: We'll be able to get that on Monday then. What services or initiatives would the line for grants and contributions fund?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: May I ask what page you're looking at?

 

MS. REGAN: That's Grants and Contributions. If we look at Page 5.2, Grants and Contributions - about halfway down the page, under Departmental Expenses by Object.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: That number is reflective of basically all the programs that we provide and the reduction in that is, once again, the transfer of the $70 million to housing.

 

MS. REGAN: This coming year, they're going to be reduced by nearly $90 million. Could you explain where that's going to come from?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: That number is reflective of all the changes that we have been speaking about since we started today, where I talked about the changes in the figures in terms of housing and in terms of our case aids. All those changes that we have discussed that I have also indicated that none of it is reflective in effecting the people who we serve or the supports that we give, so that's a combination of all those changes.

 

MS. REGAN: Did the minister receive any requests for increases in grant funding throughout the year?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Probably every day.

 

MS. REGAN: Kind of what I thought. So again, you know where I'm going with this. If you're getting requests for increases in grant funding and yet the amount that's being spent on that line item is going down estimate over estimate by nearly $90 million, there wasn't any money there to help any of those program, to increase those programs, to get people out into the workforce any earlier?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: As I mentioned, we have been doing a lot of planning. Since 2009 we have actually been able to invest provincially $420 million, and as I've mentioned before, this is because we've taken an ultimate program approach and we've taken an interdepartmental approach to helping organizations and helping non-profit groups.

 

As you can probably understand there are a great deal of them in our province and many of them have pressures and needs that we have been working with. We are in planning stages once again as a department, we have invested over the last number of years, there has been substantial increases in some areas. We have been able to provide funding for transition houses and women's centres that they haven't received in a decade. We've been able to increase the amount of per diems for foster care families, we've been able to make quite a variety of changes in income assistance . . .

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Excuse me minister, if I could - that brings to a conclusion this part of questioning by the Liberal caucus. We're at 12:57 p.m. and we would be open to questioning by the Progressive Conservative caucus.

 

MR. KEITH BAIN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Could you tell me how much time we have?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: We have 18 minutes.

 

MR. BAIN: Great, thanks. First of all, let me thank the minister for appearing before the committee this afternoon, and also the staff who are here to assist us as we try to get answers to some of our questions.

 

I think probably, minister, what I'll do is go back to - I guess it was the first question Ms. Regan asked concerning senior management and the spike in the senior management budget. You did say that there were three individuals placed with the Disability Commission and that would attribute some to it. But also, considering that fact that recovery houses and child care have been moved, they wouldn't be included in that count. Am I correct in saying that?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: The child care budget hasn't been transferred over at this time. It's still part of and reflected in our budget.

 

MR. BAIN: So that will be moved over . . .

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: As the transition takes place.

 

MR. BAIN: I guess further to the child care, what will be the role - or have you had the role of Community Services defined in the child care process, now that it's with Education and Early Childhood Development, because we know that other departments are involved. What is the involvement? You did mention in your opening remarks the licensing of child care facilities - does that remain with you? What is the role of the department in child care?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Part of the transition is that we are still in the process of working through all the finer details of that transition. We have recognized the importance as a government, an answer to the call over a number of years from Nova Scotian parents that they wanted a strong connection. That's what our consultation process showed us, that people wanted Education and Early Childhood Development to be the umbrella for the early years but at the same time they have recognized the importance of our other departments like Health and Wellness, Community Services, and so forth to be involved.

 

That's how we're doing the transitioning, to look at how we can ensure we still have that connection. So we're still working through those details, and the reason why we're still working through the details is because of the importance of the consultation process - what our stakeholders want, what they envision it to be. You'll be more successful and you'll also be able to work with the community groups and the stakeholders in a better manner if the process is a continuation to the goal we have to have the early years within the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, so it's critical that we have that continuous input from our stakeholders as we move along. Rather than just make one swoop decision and then just sort of dump everything into education, there's still work to be done with the stakeholders and the service providers. That's why it's still in that transitional stage.

 

MR. BAIN: I guess it's safe to say that child care services now, as you mentioned, is under the umbrella of Education and Early Childhood Development, but the role of your department and of the Department of Health and Wellness haven't yet been clearly defined as to what it will be at this point. It's a work in progress, I guess, is a fair way to say it.

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: We know where those components of the early years sit, especially with Health and Wellness and the significance of the programming that they offer through the auspices of health for our children - the same as Community Services.

 

It is a work in progress because I believe that is the best way to transition such a major change in our province. It is a major change; we want to make sure that we do it right, and by doing it right is to ensure that we have the opportunity for engagement and consultation with our service providers and with those who receive the services, such as parents. We are very open to discussion and recommendations. What this does is because of the fact that we're doing it as a step-by-step transition, it gives ownership to the stakeholders and to Nova Scotians because they are part of the process in formulating what this will look like at the end of the day.

 

MR. BAIN: Moving on to the Services for Persons with Disabilities, we realize that the estimates show a large increase because of the disability strategy that's being proposed. I guess I have just a couple of questions. First of all, when will consultation begin on developing the disability strategy?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Actually, we have started the consultation process. There will definitely be more, but what I did as soon as I became minister - as I mentioned before, I brought stakeholders to the table and started having that discussion with a variety of organizations throughout the province that are involved and lead the way with the disability community, having discussions with people who are disabled, along with the Disabled Commission.

 

We've had many meetings, many discussions and it's almost like an octopus - there are many areas that we need to recognize and work on, and so you're looking at areas in terms of structural accessibility, but you're also looking at educating people and informing people about what it's like to have a disability; the respect for moving forward and making commitments to make change.

 

Also, you're looking at the facilities, the supports that we offer. We're looking at the division within the Department of Community Services itself and what resources it has in order to provide those supports. You have different levels of disability in our society. You have those that have a lesser or moderate disability, whether it's physical, mental or intellectual disability, and then you have the very complex. There are many intertwining of different stakeholders, different individuals.

 

We actually, very early on, started this discussion and so it's not like yesterday we decided to do that and then today we're saying, well, we need more staff in the Disabled Commission. These discussions have been going on for years and they haven't only been discussions. It's moving us along in a strategy of how we bring everybody together to make this work, so there definitely will be more consultation process with the public but we also have to make sure that people want to consult but there also has to be time when you start to move forward and actually do the actions that you've been consulting on.

 

It's a multi-pronged project when you're making these changes because it's very important for people to see that action is taking place and it's not just discussion all the time. That's what we work very hard to make sure that everybody has their say but yet, at the same time, we can do some pilot projects and we can also set some objectives and goals that are reachable in a reasonable time frame so people can understand and see that we are making those changes that are necessary.

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bain, before proceeding, you have 10 minutes remaining. That includes an extra three and a half minutes that we've given you because we did have a break this morning between departments. We started this morning at 9:15 a.m. and there was a three minute break so we'll conclude at 1:16 p.m. We're very benevolent here, you have an extra three minutes.

 

MR. BAIN: You are so kind, thank you. I just want to, if I could, minister, just talk a little bit more about the strategy and the consultation process. You did say "action" and I think that's the most important piece of the whole puzzle. It's fine to consult and we can consult until the cows come home, if you want to.

 

I guess on the "action" part of it, you say a possibility of some pilots coming in but do you have a time line as to when you might be able to release a strategy that deals with persons with disabilities?

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Presently we don't have a specific time line. The reason for that is because that's where we need to provide more supports, that's what we've discovered through our discussions with the Disabled Commission and the stakeholders, we have realized that there is not enough support for the Disabled Commission to take the lead because you always need to have a leader and the ability for project management. That's critical to have that skill set on being able to manage any project.

 

Those are what our next steps are and that's why in our senior management budget we have that increase, to be able to provide the supports. There's been a lot of discussions internally and externally with stakeholders and have identified that in order for us to move forward to build a framework towards a disability strategy, that we need to provide those human resources in order to help the Disabled Commission now to take the next step.

 

It would be premature for us to throw out a specific date that we would have an announcement of a strategy, because of the fact that there is still a lot of work to be done. As we have more discussions, once we get those staff individuals hired and we have that as a priority, that we want to try to make sure that we're pushing that along quickly, so then they will be able to then build a framework with some timelines connected to that.

 

MR. BAIN: So at this point, minister, there's been a lot of legwork done already. Would it be fair for me to ask at this point what the department sees as some of the key points in going forward with this strategy?

 

MS. PETERSON-RAFUSE: Well there's a variety of needs that we have to have discussions to address. One of the major issues that need to be addressed is society itself - the information and knowledge and education which many of our stakeholders have done a terrific job in doing over the years. But there's more work to be done, in terms of making sure that it's not just promoting accessibility - it's actually creating an educational component that people understand and they take action, too. It's easy to say we realize and support accessibility but if you are a business or if you are a government agency or if you are a municipality and you're not taking a part of actually providing action and making that change, it's very difficult to end up where we want to be. That's part of it, the cultural change.

 

The other part is looking at the financial resources that we have. We know some areas that it would be extremely costly for society, for businesses, for government to make those changes, but instead of ignoring it and saying well we're working on it, those need to be addressed. You have to be very strategic when you're developing any kind of framework to make sure that the financial component is a significant component - how do you strategize with the resources you have? Are there other opportunities also, in terms of resources? That means partnerships - can we develop partnerships with municipalities? Can we develop partnerships with non-profits? Can we develop partnerships with major corporations to be able to address the pressures of the financial needs?

 

Another component that will be working parallel with our goal of moving this framework forward is, of course, the housing strategy. That housing strategy has specific - what we have called - pillars. Those pillars are really our objectives and goals. Part of that with that housing strategy is to look at the infrastructure we have today. We do know that within our infrastructure that there's a move towards community living. We support that but we don't have all the infrastructure to make that happen tomorrow.

 

So how do we make change? How do we go forward with these changes and also strategize in terms of supporting it throughout the culture we have in the province and that there's support for those changes and also the financial support. I guess it isn't any different, and I always like to reflect to our own personal lives, if we want to be able to do something in the future and that it is going to be a change in the way we do things in our own life, plus it's going to have a financial cost to it, we have to plan and we have to set milestones and work towards meeting those milestones so that at the end of the day we reach the goal we have.

 

It's no different when we're strategizing for any of these changes in the department. Whether it's for adoption strategy or for people with disabilities or any of the areas, there has to be a very strategic, mindful plan, but there also has to be accountability to that plan, that we set goals and that we have time frames to those goals. That's what we're trying to work out now with this framework.

 

One of our first major goals, after having these discussions with stakeholders, is to create human resource supports. Once we meet that milestone, then we will be going on, with their support, to our next milestone that we need to accomplish.

 

MR. BAIN: I guess in meetings that our caucus has had with persons with disabilities, some of the discussions that come up - and I want to use the example of washroom accessibility in public places. I think there has to be a clearer definition of what accessibility really is. We can say that something is wheelchair accessible and it falls within the accessibility guidelines but still that washroom is not totally designed to suit the person with disabilities. That's one of the challenges out there that we heard from them.

 

Another challenge that's there is transit for people, especially in rural areas. I think it's more prevalent in rural areas. One interesting thing I noted in our discussion was when we are building our homes is the building code. Nobody takes into consideration that, God forbid, at some point someone in that household might end up with a disability and be confined to a wheelchair or whatever the case might be.

 

I realize the challenges that are out there for a strategy are many, but I think by listening to the groups and organizations that are representing the disabled community. There's a lot to learn. I know we've learned a lot just in our discussion with caucus.

 

I know my time is getting short, Mr. Chairman?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, you have about one minute remaining.

 

MR. BAIN: I want to go to funded staff and again, this has been discussed earlier. You're estimating the need for more than 100 more FTEs this year, so I'm going to ask the question again. Since the people have been moved or will be moved to the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development for child care and to the Department of Health and Wellness for recovery houses, why do you anticipate the need for more FTEs?

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm wondering if the member could wait until Monday for an answer for that. That concludes our time frame. It is 1:16 p.m. and we have gone a full four hours today.

 

We will resume with Mr. Bain, I assume, again for the Progressive Conservative caucus. You will have 39 minutes to start with before going to either the Independent member or back to the Liberal caucus.

 

Thank you minister, members, staff and others in attendance - that wraps it up for today. Have a good weekend. Enjoy the weather.

 

[The subcommittee adjourned at 1:17 p.m.]