HALIFAX, MONDAY, MARCH 9, 2020

COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON SUPPLY

12:27 P.M.

CHAIR

Suzanne Lohnes-Croft

THE CHAIR: Order. The Committee of the Whole on Supply will come to order.

The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. GEOFF MACLELLAN: Thank you, Madam Chair, we will resume the Estimates for the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

SUSAN LEBLANC: The NDP has no more questions.

THE CHAIR: I will turn it over to the PC caucus.

The honourable member for Dartmouth East for one hour.

TIM HALMAN: Good afternoon, minister. Good afternoon, staff. I’d like to start off my line of questioning with respect to the leadership gaps and accountability loopholes that we’ve seen with the QEII rebuild. Specifically, I’d like to circle back to the Auditor General’s Report of 2019, where the Auditor General identified clear leadership gaps and accountability issues. Could you update the House on what steps have been taken to address the longstanding issues identified in the Auditor General’s Report of December 2019 relating to weaknesses in contract terms and contract management?

HON. LLOYD HINES: Sometimes, Madam Chair, leadership is in the eye of the beholder and I believe that the leadership that this government is showing in confronting the very difficult reality that we face in Nova Scotia with the condition of our major facilities is what leadership is all about, and that’s what we are doing.

With regard to the Auditor General’s analysis, there really are no long-standing issues. It should be noted for the House’s edification that in a very unusual - but we think wise - move, the Auditor General was invited in advance to come and review our activities. We wanted to be transparent, we wanted his help, we wanted his advice because we knew that we were going down a road that hasn’t been gone down for a long time in Nova Scotia, and with a massive expenditure of public funds, we wanted to make sure that we had the best financial advice that we could come up with at the time. To involve the Auditor General at the front end was somewhat of an unusual movement.

We adopted accountability standards with the help of our financial advisors, and in January of this year we had 11 of the 18 recommendations in place, and by May of this year we will, with some certainty, have all 18 of the recommendations from the Auditor General met.

TIM HALMAN: Minister, what mechanisms have been put in place to manage risk and fraud related to this project? What mechanisms have been put in place?

LLOYD HINES: I thank the member very much for the very relevant question. Let me start off by saying that, inherently, the P3 structure embeds the most fraud prevention process naturally in its processes. The thing to remember is that the project company is paid at the end. It’s only upon substantial completion that any money is paid out in the process. It gives us lots of opportunity to review the activities as opposed to making interim payments along the way.

I want to talk for a moment about the fairness monitor. The process involves a fairness monitor. That fairness monitor has access to every document, to every meeting, and sits with the group to make sure there are no overt or inadvertent mistakes made around the appropriateness of the activity. The evaluation committee has teams that review every aspect of the project. There’s a technical committee. There are non-disclosure agreements in place with staff and the advisors. There is a process where each of the members of the government team and the other team must disclose any relationship - if there’s anybody that they know, a relative or a relationship within the process, then that has to be taken into account for conflict of interest. The proponents are prohibited from lobbying the government on the projects.

The rules also include that any illegal business practices, including activities such as bid rigging, price fixing, bribery, fraud, coercion or collusion, unethical conduct, misrepresentation, inappropriate communications, and the offer of gifts to representatives of the province is strictly prohibited. Also, Madam Chair, all staff have received the fraud prevention training offered by the province.

TIM HALMAN: With respect to the fairness monitor, the evaluation committee, I’m correct in saying that this is a component of the department that will monitor risk and fraud assessment. With a $2 billion investment like this, do you or the department believe that we need a specific group tasked within the department in overseeing risk and fraud management and overseeing the terms of the contract and the management of the contract?

[12:45 p.m.]

LLOYD HINES: The answer, I guess, to the question is yes, and that does exist currently. Particularly with the fairness monitor, that is an independent, third-party company that oversees the process for fairness and transparency. That is a given in the nature of the P3 process. The team is also trained in internal risk assessment process. In addition to that, a fraud assessment is in training currently, led by Grant Thornton, to review - again, on top of that - all our procedures when it comes to liability or the possibility of fraud throughout the project.

TIM HALMAN: When that work is complete, will that be released to the public?

LLOYD HINES: The answer is yes.

TIM HALMAN: Could you outline a timeline as to when Nova Scotians could expect that report?

LLOYD HINES: Of course, the risk monitoring is a constant, vigilant process that we would continue. With regard to the specifics of the risk management analysis, I’ll have to get back to the member with a specific time on that. We’ll check and see where it’s at and let you know.

TIM HALMAN: Will the department make public to Nova Scotians the consultant’s report from 2018 written by Deloitte?

LLOYD HINES: There are quite a few reports, but I’m going to assume that you’re talking about the business case arrangement. That is proprietary commercial information, but when we reach technical and financial close, we will release the value for money study.

TIM HALMAN: Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Minister, for your time. As you can see, there’s a lineup here, so the fun continues. I pass this to my colleague from Cumberland North.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Cumberland North.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: Just a couple of questions around the QEII redevelopment and expansion project. Can the minister share how the QEII expansion and redevelopment project was planned? Specifically, is there a clinical health services plan that guided the expansion and redevelopment project?

LLOYD HINES: I would say that the answer to that question is yes. Through the master plan for the overall operation, which is informed by the user groups, by the physicians, by the - I believe it’s over 40 different committees that have been set up to work on specific areas of the planning. Throughout the whole process, the clinical input into the plan has been vital to what we are attempting to do.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: The Auditor General has observed that health services planning has been started repeatedly over the last 20 years and emphasized the role of a complete plan for the sustainability of health care. The minister has shared with us that over 40 groups have been consulted and that physicians have been a part of that plan. Would the minister be willing to provide to us a list of who those groups were, as well as a list of the physicians that have been consulted? One of the questions that has arisen, or that has come forward with us, is what percentage of those physicians are actually practising clinically as opposed to maybe more just focused on the academics?

LLOYD HINES: My initial response is that we will have to take that request into consideration in terms of the release of individual names, but we will undertake to do that and check and see if we’re okay with that. I want to inform the House that it’s current staff from each of the practice areas that we’re involved with, and that they’re practising clinicians that were providing input to inform the design.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: Certainly, I’m sure the minister understands the importance of consultation. We’re also looking to see if we might be able to receive a copy of the clinical health services plan that’s been used to help advise this redevelopment and expansion project.

The Bayers Lake clinics - can the government share with us whether Nova Scotia Lands has consulted with both Dalhousie Medical School, as well as the specialists that will be expected to use those clinics? In relation to that question, has Nova Scotia Lands consulted with HRM on planning for infrastructure to ensure that there are adequate transportation methods?

[1:00 p.m.]

LLOYD HINES: I can’t specifically respond to the Dalhousie Medical School question, but I will undertake to find out if there were specific discussions with them. Again, it’s the same as the previous question, in terms of the consult. The users and the clinicians in the process would have been consulted on this process.

With regard to HRM, we have a constant platform with HRM - open lines of communication. The technical requirements are embargoed at this point, obviously, because they are sensitive bidding information.

We have all kinds of infrastructure issues with HRM, and not just limited to hospitals, because we also have school issues. In the instance of this particular development, I’m sure the House is probably aware that there has been quite an explosion in development in that 180-acre piece of development out there where this clinic is going, which is on 15 acres of the 180. There’s talk of all kinds of other exciting commercial developments in the area, which I’m sure will stimulate the municipality to provide the appropriate infrastructure to not only support the clinic that we’re talking about, which it turns out will be one of many large pieces of activity that will be going on there. So we’re in constant contact with HRM and working diligently with them.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: It’s a valid question, considering that if you Google this project, in almost all the articles one of the words in the headline is “secrecy.” This last parkade issue clearly showed that there aren’t open lines of communication between this project and HRM.

I think the more openness and transparency that Nova Scotia Lands and TIR can provide to Opposition and to the public will build confidence in this project. We all want that. We all want to ensure that we have a good project moving forward.

I’m going to move to another question, still within Nova Scotia Lands but off the QEII. I have a question about Port Mersey. Does Nova Scotia Lands consider Port Mersey a contaminated site, and if not, why not? They’re still drilling additional test wells and it is a 1929 vintage papermill site.

This was a question posed to me as Critic for Nova Scotia Lands. I’m wondering if the minister could give us a clear answer on that today.

LLOYD HINES: The answer there is no. Under the regulations, Port Mersey is not a contaminated site. Assessment has been done and it meets the environmental regulations for a commercial park. There is an environmental study available, which I’d be more than happy to make available to the member.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: I would welcome that study, if the minister wouldn’t mind providing that.

Before I hand over to my colleague, I’m going to finish off with one last easy question for the minister. In the business plan that was tabled with the budget, it speaks of J-class roads and an investment of, I believe, $10 million. I’ve had many people asking how that money is going to be spent. Where will municipalities see that money for J-class roads spent in the province?

LLOYD HINES: I really appreciate that question. It hasn’t come up so far in the process, and I’ve been dying to talk about it.

As you know, the J-class roads program in the province actually dates back to the service exchange of the mid-1990s, when provincial roads were turned over to the municipalities. Those are still owned by the Province but capital improvements are done through the Province. We have a program - I think it’s a very useful program for municipalities - where municipalities can apply to the $2 million fund with matching dollars and have improvements made to their J-class roads. That $2 million pot can be for betterment. In other words, a J-class road that was upgraded to paved status qualifies in the process.

Originally, over the last couple of decades, it really wasn’t oversubscribed, but in the last number of years municipalities realized that 50 cent dollars for road improvements in their jurisdictions is an attractive proposition. Some municipalities have been taking advantage of it and others haven’t, but now we have a situation in the last couple of years where it is significantly oversubscribed.

In an effort to assist the municipalities on the J-class process, we are adding $10 million of operational money to the J-class program in this current year and asking municipalities to apply back through the similar process to access that money. Because it is maintenance money, it specifically involves repaving projects as opposed to betterment. With this money the municipality won’t be able to go from a gravel road to a paved road, but if there are J-class roads that are falling apart in many of these jurisdictions - and I can safely say that that exists in my riding - then they’re able to apply in that process to access the money for repaving.

I would say that, because of the nature of the budgeting process, until we have the budget passed, we can’t really roll this out to the municipalities. We know that municipalities are currently busy in their budgeting process. Some have already set their budgets for next year, and that creates a little bit of an awkwardness there. We’re going to ask for their co-operation because we’d like to get as much of this out the door in the current year as we can, in terms of the expenditure, because the question of carryover is not addressed at the present time.

Once we have the budget and the authority from the House to make this expenditure, then the communications will start immediately with the municipalities. We will be able to roll out the program - which is a little bit different than the existing one, which does apply to betterment, the existing $2 million - and ask municipalities to participate in this upcoming paving season.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: I’m sure the municipalities will be quite eager. It is unfortunate, when you look at timing, because as the minister stated, most municipalities would have their budget already planned for the year ahead. You’d almost wonder if there was possibly going to be an election. Am I allowed to say that?

I’m going to pass things over to my colleague for Pictou West. Thank you.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Pictou West.

KARLA MACFARLANE: I want to thank the minister and his department for being here and for this opportunity to thank all the employees who work for TIR in Pictou West as well. They’re great employees and very accessible. I’ve had a great relationship with them, and I just want to give a shout-out for the great work that they do.

One of the things I want to bring up right away is something that I’ve had the opportunity to stand in this House and discuss for the last seven years. That is the concern around the Trenton Connector. I’m sure everyone in this Chamber gets a little tired of hearing me speak about it, but as we know, there have been so many accidents - I don’t even know the number anymore - and also, sadly, half a dozen fatalities.

It’s very concerning. The minister is quite aware that we’ve been seeking to have a roundabout implemented there, and I understand that we’re looking at some of the final stages of that happening, perhaps.

I’m hoping that the minister can confirm here today when that will happen, and that we can ensure safety for all people passing through the Trenton Connector.

LLOYD HINES: I appreciate the question from the member, who has indeed surfaced this many times. I’m happy to report that the work on the survey for the design is under way. That’s the first step. It’ll take this season to get that in place. Once we do have that, which will lead us to a firm cost estimate, we will be placing it in the plan as a priority for completion.

[1:15 p.m.]

KARLA MACFARLANE: I want to thank the minister. That’s good news. I know the residents of Pictou West and beyond will be happy to hear that this type of progress is being made.

Sticking to roads and sticking to Pictou West, just off the Pictou Rotary - a few kilometres - we have a gateway into our province coming from Prince Edward Island. It’s a ferry service that usually only operates from April or May to December, sometimes, and carries up to 600,000 passengers.

One of the first things they see when they come into Pictou is they approach the rotary. When I was growing up, that rotary was something to be so proud of. It was so beautiful. Flowers everywhere, and it was mowed every week. It has now become an eyesore. This is what people coming into our province for the first time are seeing. It’s sad, because it’s really a reflection of how we think about our province, what we think, when we’re not maintaining it.

I can fully appreciate that TIR is not in the business of landscaping. I really can. What’s frustrating, though, is that we don’t recognize, or the minister’s department doesn’t recognize, that there are a few special locations in this province that really should be beautified. It really wouldn’t be that much of a budget.

My first question is, has the minister given any thought to putting any type of financial investment aside for beautification and landscaping to these gateways? If not, let’s find a way that we can move forward to allow the residents of that area - I’ve got a great group of people who are willing to go out there and beautify it, but we can’t because of liability reasons. We need to figure out one way or another. Either the department’s going to put money aside to help beautify it or they’re going to allow us to go out and beautify it so that we can direct people into the Town of Pictou - which is obvious for economic reasons and so on.

I’d like to hear the minister’s comments on that, please.

LLOYD HINES: There’s no doubt that gateway areas in the province - if we look at the border of New Brunswick, if we look at the causeway in Cape Breton - are particularly special arrangements and worthy of some special consideration.

From our perspective, you’re right. Landscaping and beautification are not the language of engineers, but I’m sure we could forge a partnership - we’d be more than happy - with the surrounding municipalities there and with the community. I think about the Adopt-A-Highway program. There might be some auspices there that would provide some activity. Develop Nova Scotia might also be another source of funding.

We would be willing to permit work in our right of way there for citizens to undertake activities. That would not be a problem. It would be a matter of applying.

KARLA MACFARLANE: That is great news. That’s very positive. We will certainly follow up on that. It’s surely a benefit for everyone.

One of the things I wanted to mention as well about the rotary is the exit just beyond that heading into Granton. We sometimes neglect how dangerous gravel on exits and around rotaries can be for motorcycles. Last year I had some visitors from Maine who went around the rotary to go through Abercrombie and one of their bikes went down because of loose gravel. We really need to make sure that in the Summer months, when we have a lot of people touring around, those exits get the gravel off. That’s a concern of mine that I just really wanted to highlight here.

The next question, sticking to roads - I’ll give you a heads up - I’ll be touching base on the new library that’s supposed to be built soon or in the next year or so in Pictou.

I wanted to ask about the Loch Broom Loop. The Loch Broom Loop has not been paved, I think, since 1960 or 1970. We used to joke that it wasn’t getting paved because the past member for Pictou West, Mr. Charlie Parker, was in government for 12 years. I would say the same thing - if you live beside me, forget about getting your road paved, because my road will be the last one paved. We used to joke that that’s probably why it’s not getting paved, because Charlie Parker lived on it.

However, I’ve been fighting and struggling since I came to the House in 2013 to get it paved. I even had the pleasure of having the deputy minister join me this Summer. I took the deputy minister on this road. It is bad. It is so, so bad.

I know it’s 12 kilometres. The residents put in a petition. They realize that it can’t all be done in one project, that it’s going to be divided up, but we do need confirmation. Is any part of the Loch Broom Loop being paved this summer?

LLOYD HINES: I thank the member for the question. We’ve actually pulled the Loch Broom Loop ahead on the plan, so we’re going to be doing two sections. I’m not sure which one is going to be done. One is from Maple Street north and the other is from Middle Road north. They’re being done consecutively - one this year and we’re going to do the other one next year. I think the one that’s being done this year is from Maple Street north, which will be five kilometres of paving that’s going in there. That’s in this current year. (Interruption) Maple Street north, Loch Broom Loop. And the other piece is Middle Road north, Loch Broom Loop, but that’ll be the following year.

KARLA MACFARLANE: I thank the minister for that. It’s nice to get it on record for those residents who have been advocating to get it done. Good work all the way around.

I’m going to finish off with a question with regard to the ongoing dialogue that is happening with Northern Pulp and moving forward with their EA, which I recognize would be under the Department of Environment as well.

I’m just wondering if perhaps we can get updated on what conversations are taking place. If they’re continuing on with their EA, there must be discussions still happening with TIR with regard to how a pipe would go along the causeway, as well as out to the ferry.

I’m wondering what type of update the minister can provide on that, and when were the last discussions held with Northern Pulp with regard to this project?

THE CHAIR: Order. Time has elapsed.

You’re not off the hook, minister, because the NDP have no more questions. We will keep on with the PC Party for one hour.

The honourable Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal.

LLOYD HINES: Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the member for the question. Our department hasn’t had any discussions with Northern Pulp around a pipe since prior to the closure being announced. They have an EA in to the Department of Environment, so really the active departments on that side of the business are LAE and Environment, particularly Environment in the lead.

Our involvement is, of course, on the Boat Harbour cleanup. We’re dedicating a lot of resources to continuing with that. We are subject to the federal EA in that instance, which we know has required a full-scale EA currently. That means that if we have anything to do as our part, we will be working with the federal Department of Environment and Climate Change, who will be conducting that.

[1:30 p.m.]

I would suggest that the issues around the things you mentioned about Northern Pulp would be better addressed to Environment and LAE. The Boat Harbour cleanup portion, we’re working diligently to find solutions. Now we’re subject to the federal EA on that one, too. As you know, we set aside funds to do that cleanup and we’re certainly committed to seeing that done.

KARLA MACFARLANE: Before I pass it over to my colleague for Argyle-Barrington, as everyone in the Chamber knows, I often speak about the progress of trying to build a new library in the Town of Pictou. It’s been under way for years and there was money set aside by this government. There was an announcement made in Pictou years ago - I think 2014 - and we have our drawings. I understand it has been under review.

I’d like an update and to confirm when we think we may be breaking ground to build it, but are we in jeopardy of not moving forward with this as soon as possible and losing our federal portion of funding that has been confirmed that’s going to be invested in this project?

LLOYD HINES: The federal member for the area is working to keep a high awareness of the project in government. The lead on that project would be Communities, Culture and Heritage. Once they deal with the application, it would get referred to us and we would get involved in the design and all that sort of stuff. We haven’t been stimulated yet for it. We’re aware of it and waiting for it to come through Communities, Culture and Heritage.

KARLA MACFARLANE: I am going to pass it over to my colleague, but I do have confirmation through an email that it is in your department being reviewed, so I really wanted an update with regard to your review on it. I can give you the email later on that indicates it’s being reviewed by your department. You don’t have to answer me now. We can talk later.

I’d like to pass it over to my colleague.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Argyle-Barrington.

COLTON LEBLANC: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thank the minister and his staff for being here this afternoon. I’d like to take the opportunity as well to thank all those in my constituency who work hard within the department.

I’d like to start by speaking about an important piece of highway infrastructure as it has been described in my constituency. That’s the important ferry service between Yarmouth and Bar Harbor - not only important to Argyle-Barrington but important to southwestern Nova Scotia and to this province. I want it to be successful. I want to see it run. I want it to be effective and reliable and transparent. I’d love to see it eventually being able to transport commercial traffic, and thus be able to service our export industry.

My first question for the minister is pretty much the follow-up to a question that was asked by the member for Pictou Centre regarding ticket sales. The minister indicated at the time that it was still relatively early in the ticket sale season to provide an answer on ticket sales, but we’re 108 days away from June 26^th, so that first sailing is quickly approaching. I guess my question for the minister is: When will residents and business owners of Nova Scotia get an update on ticket sales as we approach June 26^th?

LLOYD HINES: I’m very pleased to hear the member’s clarification on what the position is with regard to this service. We know that this service is very important to all of Nova Scotia, and I would go as far as to say that it is vital to southwest Nova Scotia, which includes the member’s riding. I certainly appreciate his clarity on recognizing that situation, and I would ask that he provide that enthusiasm to the Leader of his Party. It would be really great if he were able to help us with this process, which we are committed to, making sure that it exists as a service for all Nova Scotians and our umbilical connection into the U.S. tourism market, which has been a traditional market for us.

The ferry itself can take commercial traffic; however, the protocols that are in place - well, as it was with Portland and now with Bar Harbor - is that commercial traffic is not included in those ports of call. We really have no comment at this point on the ticket sales, but I would encourage the member to reach out to Bay Ferries and see. They’re in charge of that piece of the business and they might be able to shed some light on that for the member.

COLTON LEBLANC: I want to reassure the minister that members on this side of the aisle do support a ferry, but it’s a ferry that runs and is effective and it’s reliable and it’s transparent. I want to be very clear with that.

My constituents want more than just optimism because they were given optimism last ferry season and we know what happened there. They want confidence in the messaging, and they want accurate information. My question for the minister is: What guarantee does the minister have that the ferry service will, in fact, start on June 26^th?

LLOYD HINES: Just as a quick review and refresher on this service, this government didn’t cancel it. We didn’t create this situation. When we took the operation over in October of 2013, a new operator had just, at that point in time, been appointed, and by 2015 had driven the cost well beyond the subsidy that we have been currently providing over the last number of years.

We are committed to reinstating this service, to correcting the wobble in the southwest Nova Scotia tourism economy. We know that the numbers last year, when the ferry, unfortunately, did not run, were down 29 per cent, the most precipitous drop in any region in the history of the province, so it’s not difficult to point at that missing service as the contributor to that.

What we have currently is a long-term charter, we have a long-term lease on the facilities, we have a new facility in Bar Harbor, and just as importantly - and more importantly because it reflects the commitment in Nova Scotia to the service - is the rebuild of the Yarmouth facilities, which are currently, I think, under way and are funded by the three levels of government but represented by three municipal units in the local area, which speaks to the importance that they see in this service.

I spoke earlier in the week about our inter-provincial ferry service and, of course, the various subsidies that are paid for those services and the amount of subsidy that we put into our own inter-community ferries that we have in Nova Scotia. So, the importance of the ferries, but an international ferry operation is a cat of a different colour. It’s much more complex than the inter-provincial stuff.

Obviously, as was illustrated in last year’s unfortunate circumstance, control rests with authorities that, really, we have very little influence over. We are subject to their rules and regulations, which in this evolving world of border relationships that we have, particularly with our U.S. counterparts, has changed and is extremely complex. In that circumstance, that additional level of complexity is added into the process, but we are committed to providing this service and we’re very happy at this point as to where we are and particularly with the announcement that tickets are currently being sold for the current season.

[1:45 p.m.]

COLTON LEBLANC: I thank the minister for his answer. He is, in fact, correct that his government did not cancel the ferry service, but it is, however, responsible at this day to make sure that he’s responsible and accountable to Nova Scotia taxpayers to provide that accountable, reliable, and transparent service that runs.

What I understand is that the green light has been given from U.S. Customs and Border Protection for June 26^th. I’m wondering if there are hurdles and if June 26^th arrives and the ferry doesn’t sail, what’s plan B?

LLOYD HINES: At this point, with the progress that we’ve made on the work at Bar Harbor, where the progress is being made at the work in Yarmouth, we’re feeling very confident that the service will be available at the projected date, for sure. The question of beyond June 26^th is a hypothetical question that we’re not contemplating at the present time. We’re very confident that with all the work that has gone into it and the sale of tickets, which is undertaken by the operator, it points to a strong level of confidence that the service will be reinstated and available and be providing traffic into Nova Scotia for all Nova Scotia tourism operators, in particular the ones in southwest Nova Scotia.

COLTON LEBLANC: The minister spoke regarding progress of the work on the terminal in Bar Harbor, but photos that I’ve seen from early February of this year may paint a different picture. It’s nice to see the lot’s paved and plowed, but there’s still pretty much just a shell for some of these booths for the border guards. I just have a little bit of concern that, you know, that might be an obstacle. I truly hope that the minister and his department will be forthcoming with the information if there are any hurdles, if the ferry service does not, in fact, start on June 26^th.

I want to change course a bit and talk about Exit 32. The former member for Argyle-Barrington stood in this House multiple times talking about the issue. Myself, last Fall. I’ve met with local staff and I’ve met with senior staff here in Halifax. It’s a priority for me. I just want to know how much of a priority it is for the minister and his department, and if he could provide any update for the benefit of the House on that, please.

LLOYD HINES: Yes, rest assured the department is committed to the safety and improvement at that site, which is Exit 32 near Pubnico. We are well into the preliminary design for the project, which will lead to the final design and a survey. It’s our intention to have it enter the Five Year Plan, and the next Five Year Plan, the one that will be released in December. Where it fits into that picture, somewhere in that next five-year period, will be dependent on the final design in terms of what the costs are. We’re hoping that it might qualify for some federal fronting to assist us with what we’re estimating to be a $30 million project to do what the preliminary design is pointing at, the direction the preliminary design is pointing us in.

COLTON LEBLANC: It’s very optimistic news, very happy to hear that. I was just wondering if my constituents would expect any public consultation with any preliminary design once it makes the Five Year Plan.

LLOYD HINES: As is our practice, once we have a solid plan, something that we are satisfied with internally, we would, of course, be taking that out for public consultation.

COLTON LEBLANC: I want to talk about causeway situations in my constituency. I’ve brought to the minister’s attention previously the Cape Sable Island Causeway. There are other causeways, such as the one in Eel Brook. These causeways were constructed many, many years ago, when engineering techniques were much different than they are today. There are residents and community leaders and government officials on a municipal level that have some concerns particularly with the one in Cape Sable Island connecting the mainland to the island, and then there are residents that are beginning to express concerns regarding the one in Eel Brook.

I’m just wondering about the minister’s opinion on the state of maintenance and planning for not only the longevity of these pieces of infrastructure, but are they going to be assessed only when there are complaints made or is our long-term objective to make sure that these transportation links are safe?

LLOYD HINES: With regard to Cape Sable, some time ago we did an extensive review of that particular piece of infrastructure, and some work was done to it. Of course, like many of the causeways we have that are critical - and that one’s certainly critical - we are constantly monitoring those for any particular changes. That one seems to be holding, according to the latest report that we have from Greg Newell - I’m sure you’re familiar with Greg in your operation down there.

You know, I often think about the Canso Causeway in my area, which is, again, another critical route that is also being monitored constantly. It’s a much more extensive causeway than that one, it’s in 80 feet of water, that is. I think back as to how we would approach doing something like that today with the environmental standards that we have. I know that in Cape Sable Island, the fishermen would like to have that opened up so that fish are able to migrate through the area that is currently covered by the causeway.

In retrospect for the Canso Causeway, for the Cape Sable Causeway - it was the right thing to do, and I think we would have quite a challenge to get either one of those built today. Now they’re permanent fixtures in the process there, so in terms of our approach it’s a permanent piece of infrastructure that we’re responsible for maintaining, and the idea of altering it by installing a bridge is sort of beyond our reach at the present time.

The Eel Brook one, I’d appreciate if we could get some more information on that one. Maybe that’s at the local level, it hasn’t bubbled up to senior staff level, but we’d be more than happy to take a look at it and see how it affects the communities involved.

COLTON LEBLANC: Quickly on coastal roads, there’s a number of gravel roads in my constituency that line the coast of our beautiful province that are susceptible to flooding and erosion and marshland, whether it be Rocco Point Road, the Tittle Road, or Chemin de la Pré. What measures will the government, the minister’s department, be taking, to mitigate these issues, whether it be building up the roads to ensure that communities aren’t cut off from the services that they need day to day?

[2:00 p.m.]

LLOYD HINES: You know, as I’ve said in the House many times, Nova Scotia is a proud and old province. In terms of its development, you see it here in this wonderful city where we have some pretty narrow streets that were developed 300 to 400 years ago, 250 to 300 years ago when we were in horse and buggies and carts. Other cities, such as Calgary as an example, have such wide thoroughfares, boulevards and grid layouts, and, of course, they’re flat - it’s hard to find a rock in Alberta that’s bigger than a teacup - but they have the luxury of having been planned many years after Nova Scotia saw its advent as one of the earliest places for European contact in the entire country.

So the evolution of our roads, because of the fact that the ports, particularly down in your area, where they built the roads right along the sea level because they could get the grades there - the level grades - for the most part, we’re left with this legacy. Now, as time has turned, and we’re into a climate change reality that, what has worked for us for many years is now, to some degree, working against us. Our roads are vulnerable to sea level rise and to the one-in-100-year storms that are coming every four or five years now and that are playing havoc, for the most part, with a lot of our roads.

In that environment that we have there, the department has internally adapted a coastal road program which we’re developing for each of the areas, each of the districts, and I highly recommend, again, that you speak to Mr. Newell for what exactly is planned in your area.

We are looking toward, and have had success with, the federal Disaster Mitigation and Adaptation Fund. There are some monies in other programs of a green nature that we’re hoping to be able to augment with our own spending. Essentially what we’re doing is developing a strategy to deal with this persistent situation which might have been looked at as a once-in-a-lifetime situation, but now we know that we’re vulnerable and we need to do something specific and have a plan, a program to deal with it.

In that regard, we’re conducting an inventory from all the areas as to where the most vulnerable roads are, and then we’re going to be looking at dedicating some funds toward that and trying to augment that with help from the various federal auspices that are there.

COLTON LEBLANC: I could speak for the whole 40 hours with the minister about various transportation issues. That’s why I extend the invitation to the minister to come down to Argyle-Barrington and see some of the issues with me if you’d like; maybe have some lobster.

With the time remaining, I’ll pass it to my colleague, the member for Cole Harbour-Eastern Passage.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Cole Harbour-Eastern Passage.

BARBARA ADAMS: I’ll go on record as saying the member for Argyle-Barrington hasn’t invited me down yet for lobster, so I’ll raise that issue later on.

I’m happy today to ask you a few questions on your department; a little bit of a different take, perhaps. I want to start with the parking lots at the Dartmouth General Hospital. My understanding from what I’ve read, is the number of parking spots is going to go from 350 to 500. I’m just wondering, currently right now, how many parking spots are there at the Dartmouth General Hospital?

LLOYD HINES: We will undertake to get you the specific number of increase; however, we did take down a part of the provincial property that you might be aware of there, that was the provincial storage area, and increased the size of the parking lot. The exact number, I don’t have at my fingertips, but we’ll get it for you and let you know.

BARBARA ADAMS: When I went on the tour of the Dartmouth General, and this is many months ago, there had been a discussion about whether to purchase property behind the Dartmouth General - that was at the time being used for the construction crews - to add to the space for those parking spots. I’m just wondering if you can confirm for me whether that property has been purchased or if they’re still in discussions about extra property to be purchased?

LLOYD HINES: The arrangement we had for that lot was a temporary arrangement via a lease; the owner of that property has other plans for the property. So, we compensated for that by going towards 10 Acadia Street and taking down a portion of that to get the required parking that we had.

BARBARA ADAMS: So, I’ll express a concern that may not have been raised here yet, but I did raise it with the site person who took me on the tour. Because I’m a physiotherapist, I’m acutely aware of how far seniors, especially those with disabilities, can walk.

One of my concerns was, depending on where you have parking, some seniors literally cannot walk the distance from where they would have to park to get into the Dartmouth General. So, I was thinking about what was happening in Halifax with respect to a parking garage being on the opposite side of the road. I know that the average senior is supposed to be able to walk 6,000 to 8,500 steps, which is the equivalent of 60 to 85 minutes of walking, but very few who are travelling to hospitals often can do that and many have wheelchairs, canes, and walkers.

I asked the site lead when they were developing parking plans, given that the number of seniors is going to double over the next 20 years, was there a consideration for the distance that seniors and those with disabilities can travel factored in to where you were placing parking lots around hospital facilities; that’s my question, was that factored in in terms of the development of the parking structures?

LLOYD HINES: Obviously the theme of parking continues to raise its head in terms of how prominent it is and how important it is to the good operation of these health facilities. You’re absolutely right, we know this from the Halifax Infirmary site and our plans there; many people who use these facilities are non-ambulatory patients and need to be as close as can be to the operation.

The provision at the Dartmouth General, of course, is for a drop-off and pickup facility at the main entrance which, as you know, has been moved around, which makes it a little bit closer to the parking that is there. That’s the due consideration that is given in the design. I think, too, for instance, in the Halifax Infirmary situation, in the discussions of the parkade, there’s considerable underground parking which will be set aside for patients with ambulatory challenges; underground in that facility, approximately 1,000 spots, under the new Halifax Infirmary.

I have a high awareness of the importance of parking in terms of facilitating the folks who tend to come to hospitals which, if you’re looking at them, they’re on crutches, they’re on walkers, they’re in casts, they’re in wheelchairs, and, they’re certainly not capable of travelling long distances from the parking area.

BARBARA ADAMS: I thank the member for that answer because that’s certainly a good thing to hear. One of the things that I will suggest as something to consider, a lot of the people who are getting dropped off - like when I take my mother, she’s 90, I cannot leave her. I can’t take her out of the car and put her somewhere and just let her sit by herself because of dementia or mobility issues. There might be an opportunity at the drop-off zone to have an attendant there, not somebody to drive the car, but somebody to supervise in place. It might be a volunteer thing, but that’s one of the barriers. It’s why I have to take her with me wherever I park, because I can’t leave her alone. So that’s an idea.

[2:15 p.m.]

I want to shift to something under health, safety, and environment. I was reading that your department provides for the ongoing health and safety of all department employees and visitors in accordance to provincial OH&S and environmental legislation. So, I’m wondering if you are able to advise the House how many departmental employees or visitors would have been injured on government property under your department’s administration, either visitors or employees?

LLOYD HINES: We will undertake to find that information. It may actually reside with the Public Service Commission to some extent and with ISD also, Internal Services, but we will try and track it down. I think it probably is available.

BARBARA ADAMS: I thank you for that answer. I guess the reason I was asking was there are a lot of contract workers who come on to the property. I know when I went for my tour of the Dartmouth General, I had an incredibly thorough training as to how to be safe; I was really impressed with that. I just was curious as to whether there was a lower injury rate, perhaps, with your department as a result of that extra training. I was thinking that we always want to learn from best practices, so I remember being impressed.

The final question that I would like to ask, and this relates to handicap parking spots. I know we have some spots that are designated for pregnant women or families; there are some parking spots that are being taken up by the Liquor Corporation or the Atlantic Superstores for you to park and you get your groceries brought out to you. Given that the number of seniors is going to double over the next 20 years, I’m wondering if the department has plans to increase the number of handicap parking spots that are available, especially at government-owned facilities. I just see that that’s going to be something that’s going to become an issue as time goes on.

LLOYD HINES: I really appreciate the question. It’s an excellent observation and question. In terms of what our approach is, we’re of course first informed by the National Building Code which has standards around the number of accessible spots that are provided. We do now, in Nova Scotia, have our own accessibility legislation which also informs that process; also, depending on what the nature of the building is, if it’s a provincial building, and if it is one that will attract a higher number of seniors as an example, then that also informs how many spots we would have because we can alter that.

It’s certainly a good observation. I guess we’re all getting older at an accelerated rate in Nova Scotia, so I think it’s a thoughtful question.

BARBARA ADAMS: I thank the member for the answer, and now I’m going to turn my time over to the member for Pictou Centre.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Pictou Centre.

HON. PAT DUNN: In case I don’t get the opportunity to mention this to you, minister, as I ended the Estimates for your department last year, I suggested that you take your entire staff out to a good steak dinner. If I get the time, I’ll check up and if you didn’t, maybe this is the year you should do it.

There are a couple of roads that have been on your radar, minister, just one I wanted to speak about was the route 347 between Thorburn and the East River St. Marys. The one I want to talk to is the route 289 from New Glasgow to the Little Harbour Road; it’s route 289 that meets route 348. In your Five Year Plan, it’s scheduled for 2022-23 to resurface, so that’s route 289, which is 13 kilometres.

I can’t remember, minister, I’ve lived in that area all my life and I can’t remember it being resurfaced or repaved. She’s, in my opinion, not in the best of shape from one end to the other. I guess my wish would be that you could move that up a little quicker, maybe do it a year sooner. Once again, that’s route 289 from the Town of New Glasgow to Little Harbour where it meets route 348.

LLOYD HINES: For this year, we’ve got a full program, so I can’t see it getting done this year. It’s in 2022-23, we’re certainly willing to consider it for next year’s program. I would advise the member to speak with Mr. Troy Webb to have it raised as a priority during your consultations and when you meet with us, and maybe we can get it moved ahead at least a year.

PAT DUNN: My next question is in reference to your overall budget. Does the department have the dollars set aside to address problems that inadvertently come up, like washouts, damage to bridges and roads due to unforeseen bad weather patterns? Are there any dollars set aside in a fund to address those types of things?

LLOYD HINES: We do have a bit of contingency in our own departmental funding for maintenance improvement funds that are set aside for small projects. For instance, we had to, not small by any means with Hurricane Dorian, we went over by $2.8 million which was significant but was not enough to engage the Disaster Mitigation and Adaptation Fund which has a threshold of $3 million. We do have the disaster mitigation funds as a fallback if we get a major project.

Otherwise, there is a contingency you’ll see in the budget - I believe it’s in the vicinity of $40 million by the Department of Finance and Treasury Board - which is just that, for contingent processes. We simply, if we have to, will overspend. We might go back to Treasury Board and look for redress depending on how extensive the over-expenditure might be, but otherwise we get the job done.

If we have a major problem across the province that would exceed the area of $3 million, we spend the money then we apply through the federal government to recover the appropriate portion to help us out of that. Rest assured we get the work done and by hook or by crook we find the money to pay for it.

PAT DUNN: As I was asking that question, I was thinking of a particular road that you wouldn’t be familiar with - it’s just a dead end gravel road - the Thompson Road which runs off the road in Walkerville that leads down to the North Nova Education Centre. In that gravel road there is a bridge, and it’s getting to the point where they put up some concrete abutments in late Fall because it’s eroding very quickly. The integrity of the bridge eventually will be suspect if something is not done very quick. It’s something that’s sort of out of the ordinary run of the mill budget and so on. There’s no further question on the Thompson Road, just wanted to bring it to your attention.

Dealing with bridges, according to the Auditor General Report last year, if the province were to replace all provincially-owned 4,200 bridges, it would take approximately 200 years at the current rate of replacement. Therefore, does TIR’s bridge information system fail in providing management all the essential information needed to make decisions to select bridge replacement and maintenance projects?

THE CHAIR: Shall Resolution E37 stand?

Resolution E37 stands.

Resolution E44 - Resolved, that the business plan of the Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission be approved.

Resolution E47 - Resolved that the business plan of the Nova Scotia Lands Inc. and Harbourside Commercial Park Inc. be approved.

THE CHAIR: Shall Resolution E44 and E47 carry?

The resolutions are carried.

We’re going to take a recess while we change departments.

[2:30 p.m. The committee recessed.]

[2:36 p.m. The committee reconvened.]

THE CHAIR: Order. The Committee of the Whole on Supply will come to order.

The honourable Deputy Government House Leader.

KEITH IRVING: Madam Chair, I would now ask you to call the Estimates of the Department of Business.

Resolution E2 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $149,022,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Business, pursuant to the Estimate.

THE CHAIR: I will now invite the Minister of Business to make some opening comments if he wishes and to introduce his staff to the members of the committee.

HON. GEOFF MACLELLAN: Thank you, Madam Chair, and good afternoon everyone. I’m pleased to be here today to introduce the 2020-21 budget for the Department of Business, and, of course, answer your questions that are forthcoming.

My folks here today are Louise Comeau, Director of Financial Advisory Services at Finance and Treasury Board - her role, specifically, is supporting the Department of Business - as well as my Deputy Minister, Bernie Miller. We also have Mike McMurray and some of the executive directors of Crowns and Major Projects. A number of CEOs from Crowns and Major Projects, senior staff folks are here, and also some Department of Business representatives.

Of course, as is usually the case, Madam Chair, if there are any questions forthcoming from the Opposition and they’re specific to any particular corporations, or any specific questions, if you just want to give us a heads-up in advance, we’ll make sure we have the appropriate people here. We’ll just sort of play that as we go, but just in interest of not wasting any of your time waiting for a switch-out. So, if you see something coming, just give us a heads-up.

Madam Chair, in the Department of Business, to achieve our outcomes - like employment attachment, population growth, growth in strategic sectors, growth in exports, economic participation and benefits - we need to do things differently. That includes, of course, the ability to innovate and collaborate and ensure we are all aligned behind these common goals.

Our Crown corporations play a vital role in that innovation and collaboration. Today we are much better aligned with our Crowns, Invest Nova Scotia and all the boards than we have been in the past. Last month, we hosted the second annual Crowns summit, where the Department of Business and Crown corporations’ senior leadership met to continue our discussions on how we can work together to meet government’s goal of inclusive economic growth.

Inclusive economic growth creates opportunity for everyone. It is a main goal of our government, and a main focus of the Department of Business. Working hand in glove with our Crown corporations - NSBI, Innovacorp, Tourism Nova Scotia, Events East, Develop Nova Scotia and Invest Nova Scotia - we are focused on creating the conditions for businesses to thrive and create an economy in which all Nova Scotians can participate, contribute and benefit in all parts of our province.

It was a very positive session, and we discussed how important measurement is. We need to measure to know what we are doing, and that those activities are having a positive impact, continuously evaluating what we are doing and how we are moving our province forward and making adjustments as they are required along the way. We are committed to working even more closely and playing our role in strengthening our economy and allowing all Nova Scotians to feel that benefit.

Nova Scotia is coming off a record year for economic growth. This puts Nova Scotia in a position of strength to be able to weather things like the closure of Northern Pulp or declines in tourism visitation numbers, and to recover faster than had happened a number of years ago. Of course, Madam Chair, on the minds of many in the gallery and in the province are the effects of Corona virus and how that will impact, and, certainly, that is another example of an external economic factor that we’ve got to be very much concerned about.

There has never been a better time to start and grow a business in Nova Scotia, and with the new investments comes more jobs and more diversity in our economy. We’re seeing records in export growth, population growth and tourism growth. We see increased start-ups. We see early stage venture capital investments, with over 500 per cent growth in investment since the Ivany report was commissioned. As of April 1^st of this year, we intend to have the lowest small business tax rates in Atlantic Canada.

We are building on our ocean economy, ocean innovation and commercialization at the Centre for Ocean Ventures and Entrepreneurship - also known as COVE - and through investments in Canada’s ocean supercluster. We will continue to focus on Nova Scotia’s natural advantages. We know that building on comparative advantage is the basis of modern economic growth. Working with the Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing and using an evidence-based approach, we have created 10 regional economic profiles that will put critical information in the hands of municipalities, entrepreneurs, universities, the NSCC, and others, and to identify and build on regional strengths and advantages to create innovative opportunities across our great province. These are the most comprehensive regional profiles ever produced in Nova Scotia that take a close look at regional strengths and what we can build on to foster acceleration of entrepreneurs throughout Nova Scotia.

We’re also reducing the red tape regulatory burden. Red tape and regulatory burden mean time, and time means money for businesses. We’ve reduced regulatory costs for businesses by $34 million with the goal of another $10 million by the end of 2020. We’ve been recognized for this work; the Canadian Federation of Independent Business released its annual Red Tape Report Card that grades provincial governments on their progress in tackling excessive regulation, and for a second year in a row Nova Scotia received a grade of A.

Government is making sure more Nova Scotians will have access to high-speed internet connections. On February 7^th, we announced the first projects for the Internet for Nova Scotia Initiative, which will provide access to high-speed internet for more than 42,000 homes and businesses; $193 million is committed to this initiative through the Nova Scotia Internet Trust Fund. The first round of projects is an investment of almost $45 million that is leveraged by an additional $56 million in private and other public sector funding. This increases the number of homes and businesses with access to high-speed internet from 70 per cent to 86 per cent, closer to the goal of achieving 95 per cent access across the province. In Cumberland and Colchester Counties, for instance, about 16,000 under-served homes and businesses will have access, service from wired and fixed wireless services. There will be 4,100 connections in Lockeport, Sable River, Shelburne, Clyde River and Woods Harbour, as well as 2,100 connections in Elmsdale, Kennetcook and Noel.

The second RFP was issued by Develop Nova Scotia, and we expect to announce the next round of projects this summer. We’ll keep going until we reach our goal, so that more Nova Scotians will be able to live where they choose while staying connected and helping to grow our economy.

Of course, I can’t overstate the overall role that the Crown corporations have in terms of our provincial growth. The mandate of Develop Nova Scotia is to build places with community that attract people and enable business activity across our province by working with partners to build infrastructure, create inviting spaces and deliver engaging programming to support inclusive economic growth here in Nova Scotia.

I’ve already mentioned Develop Nova Scotia’s leadership on the Internet for Nova Scotia Initiative. Develop Nova Scotia is working with the Town of Inverness on a growth plan, a roadmap for planning and economic development to leverage the significant tourism interest in the town, supported by private sector investment, to ensure that the community can benefit from that very interest.

Develop Nova Scotia supports grassroots and tactical placemaking initiatives, like the Fiber Arts Alley project in Amherst, a community-led project that will build an interesting, authentic, local place where community can gather. Develop Nova Scotia is also working in partnership with the Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre on an Indigenous waterfront project that will evidence Mi’kmaq culture along our Halifax waterfront.

[2:45 p.m.]

Tourism Nova Scotia works with entrepreneurs and organizations across the province to create outstanding visitor experiences, while promoting Nova Scotia as a great place to visit. By now, we all know of our collective Nova Scotia goal to reach $4 billion in revenue by 2024. The most current tourism stats show a 4 per cent decline in non-resident overnight visitation compared to 2018. That includes 7 per cent less visitation by air and a 2 per cent decline in visitation by road compared to 2018, as well.

There were a couple of extraordinary external events that contributed to this decline. The grounding, of course, of the Boeing 737 Max aircraft significantly affected air capacity to Nova Scotia, and that’s particular to the overseas markets for which we’ve come to build a certain necessity, as it relates to our tourism growth.

The Maine-Yarmouth ferry, of course, did not operate and our U.S. visitors lost an access option. Hurricane Dorian contributed to a decline in September visitation, which obviously, is an integral part of the tourism season. However, the provincial tourism industry is stronger and more resilient now after years of strong growth. We will be able to manage our way through this.

We are seeing hundreds of thousands more visitors coming to Nova Scotia today than we were five years ago. In 2018, tourism revenues reached an estimated $2.61 billion. That’s $600 million more coming into the province compared to 2010. The $4 billion target reflects overall spending on our tourism experiences, accommodations, and in our shops, restaurants, gas stations and grocery stores. It is up to all of us - business, government and community organizations - to strive to meet our shared $4 billion goal.

We must evolve with a changing industry and believe in our potential as a tourism destination. Our collective focus must continue to be on creating compelling reasons for people to visit our province, and strategic marketing to build awareness of Nova Scotia and keep Nova Scotia top of mind. That’s why government is investing $3.4 million this year to improve iconic tourism sites, five sites that we know draw visitors to Nova Scotia; $1.5 million from the Tourism Revitalization of Icons fund will enhance visitor experience and address traffic congestion at Peggy’s Cove. The work on infrastructure improvements will begin in 2020, as well.

Other infrastructure investments are being made at the Halifax waterfront, the Cabot Trail, the Big Boat Shed on the Lunenburg waterfront, and the Bay of Fundy, including Annapolis Royal. These investments will enhance visitor experience and create more opportunities for tourism businesses and surrounding communities.

As always, I’m pleased that Bay Ferries Ltd. announced the starting date of the Summer season, June 26^th. The ferry is a gateway to our province, Madam Chair, and it’s an important contributor to southwest Nova Scotia’s tourism industry. Visitors who come to Nova Scotia by ferry don’t just stay in southwestern Nova Scotia. They travel and spend their vacation dollars throughout the province. There was a significant decline in tourism activity for the Yarmouth and Acadian shores without the ferry last year.

We need to work to create more direct air links between Nova Scotia and our target markets, like the recently announced direct flight to Manchester, England. Once people are here, we need to make sure there are many great experiences for them to spend their money on in our communities. We need to leave a lasting impression that makes people want to come back and tell their friends about Nova Scotia. I’d like to take a moment to thank TIANS and their members and all tourism-focused organizations for their ongoing commitment to Nova Scotia’s tourism sector.

Madam Chair, we do care very much about the creative economy. Nova Scotia Business Inc. is the administrator of the Nova Scotia Film & Television Production Incentive Fund. As you know, the fund is a financial incentive based on a Nova Scotia spend model. It applies to eligible purchases made to a Nova Scotia-based supplier. Last year, fiscal 2019-20, 63 productions were budgeted for; the year before, 49 productions.

Since the fund launched in July 2015, NSBI has approved and announced 198 funding commitments for productions, representing about $87 million in committed spending. Productions filmed here, like The Lighthouse, are putting Nova Scotia on the screens of millions of viewers world-wide and receiving accolades, including Oscar nominations, the Independent Spirit Awards, and countless others. The Curse of Oak Island, supported through the Nova Scotia Film & Television Production Incentive Fund, is viewed by millions. Locke & Key, also supported through the fund, is putting Lunenburg front and centre on TV screens for Netflix viewers worldwide. Diggstown, second season, is about to launch to national audiences on CBC on March 4^th, and Arcadia’s Hope for Wildlife showcases the Nova Scotia organization’s work to the world. Murmur is a Nova Scotia production written and directed by Heather Young, and Martha Cooley as producer. Murmur was just nominated for the John Dunning Best First Feature Award for the 2020 Canadian Screen Awards. Not only is the production winning awards, it is also a film featuring women: woman producer, woman director, and woman writer. These are all productions that recognize the value found here in Nova Scotia, and we’re proud to welcome those, and others, here.

We believe in the industry, and that’s why we’ve made an upfront budget commitment of $25 million to this fund. We will continue to monitor activity and make adjustments to the budget as required, based on our fiscal ability. Both the Digital Animation Tax Credit and the Digital Media Tax Credit will be extended for a period of five years leading up to 2025; $16 million will support digital animation in Nova Scotia and extend the Digital Animation Tax Credit, and $6.2 million will support the interactive digital media industry and extend the Digital Media Tax Credit. These extensions and our increased investment signal our continued support for the creative industry in Nova Scotia.

Halifax hosted the 10^th annual Women Making Waves conference March 6^th and 7^th. This conference attracted influential personnel in the film and television industry who came to discuss the art and the business of developing projects for television and film. It was a great opportunity for women in the film and television sector to come together and learn from industry experts, network with peers, and play a role in the ongoing efforts of Atlantic Canada’s women in film and television to expand diversity and gender equality in the industry.

Nova Scotia Business Inc. is our business development agency and is focused on export development and strategic investment attraction targeted to areas of comparative advantage. Last year, the regional team worked with over 700 Nova Scotia-based companies across the province. NSBI will strengthen its partnership with the Black Business Initiative to assist in the further development of a strong, vibrant Black business community here in the province. NSBI will continue to work with the Department of Labour and Advanced Education and the Centre for Employment Innovation at St. F.X. to grow diversity and inclusion in the workplace and improve employment services across the province.

Growing exports is a main priority for Nova Scotia. NSBI has four programs that will help our companies grow their export capacity: the Export Growth Program, the Small Business Development Program, the Productivity and Innovation Voucher Program, and the Innovation Rebate Program. Pitch Prep helps businesses looking to grow and increase export sales by preparing them to be successful in their investment submissions. The Executive Management Growth Program helps businesses develop leadership skills required to grow their businesses, as well. NSBI is also the program training partner on a national Trade Accelerator Program being delivered by the Halifax Chamber of Commerce. The first cohort of companies begins training this week.

NSBI has the programs, tools, and expertise to support first-time exporters and export growth. Staff work with companies from across Nova Scotia to expand export sales and secure investment from around the world to stimulate our economy. We are encouraged by the high demand for export-focused programs. NSBI has built upon client insights to ensure this demand is supported by providing timely, impactful programs and services when and where they need them.

We are investing in places and programs where good ideas can become successful businesses: Volta in Halifax and IGNITE Labs in Yarmouth and Pictou County, and programs like Mashup Labs at NSCC campuses across the province, Creative Destruction Lab at Dalhousie University, and the many supportive initiatives offered to start-ups in Cape Breton.

Innovacorp is Nova Scotia’s early stage venture capital organization working with start-ups throughout the province. It finds, funds, and fosters innovative Nova Scotia start-ups that strive to change the world. In addition to its team and incubation facilities in Halifax, it has a full-time employee based in Wolfville, who is focused on the Annapolis Valley and South Shore, as well as bio-resource and agricultural technology start-ups across Nova Scotia. Innovacorp also has a small team in Cape Breton that, with support from ACOA and Nova Scotia Power, offers local start-ups and entrepreneur residents accelerated programs, training opportunities, a maker’s space, mentorship and networking events.

In 2018-2019, Innovacorp invested in over 17 companies, advancing $6.3 million in early-stage venture capital. Revenue and employment generated by Innovacorp’s investment portfolio companies last year was $35.5 million, and 688 jobs.

We recognize the potential for Nova Scotia in ocean technology. We know that we need to create conditions that allow the ocean sector to grow. We need to foster collaboration among government, the private sector, and our academic institutions.

Nova Scotia has over 7,400 kilometres of coastline. You are never more than an hour from the sea. Our proximity to the ocean truly does define us. The ocean helps to explain who we are, where we’ve been, and where we’re going, as people and as a province. For years, our licence plates even used to carry the tag “Canada’s Ocean Playground.” For centuries, people living in coastal communities have built their families, their livelihoods and their traditions around the fishing industry, and for centuries Nova Scotians have been innovators. With focus and collaboration, we are seeing continued growth in oceans. It is a huge industry and has tremendous potential for growth.

We are home to over 300 companies in ocean-related industries, with over 80 high-tech innovators. These global leaders are diverse, pioneering advancements in underwater acoustics, sensing and imaging, enhanced engineering, and environmental services. Including spinoffs, our ocean-related industries are generating about $4.5 billion, or 12.2 per cent of our province’s GDP, and account for about one-third of total R&D among Nova Scotia businesses.

The Centre for Ocean Ventures and Entrepreneurship opened on the Dartmouth waterfront in June 2018. This ocean tech hub links entrepreneurs, established companies, scientists, and post-secondary institutions. We currently host 50 tenants, an occupancy rate of 75 per cent. The COVE start-up yard offers an acceleration program and incubation spaces and services to promising start-ups. Currently, there are two cohorts of 13 early-stage ocean tech companies as part of this initiative. We are drawing the best and brightest in ocean technology to our region and building our ocean economy through technology and commercialization.

We were pleased, but not surprised, when Atlantic Canada’s Ocean Supercluster was selected as one of five federal projects. We are successful due to collaboration among the private and public sector companies, start-ups, and the experts and researchers at our colleges and universities, and the supercluster is growing the ocean economy in a way that has never been done before.

On February 21^st, the ocean supercluster team announced its first innovation ecosystem project that represents unprecedented investment and collaboration. The Ocean Startup Project will increase the number of quality, market-driven, ocean-focused start-ups in the region to support the kind of transformative ocean activity that will be realized through Canada’s ocean supercluster. The Ocean Startup Project activities will focus on engaging with entrepreneurs in their communities and encouraging quality start-ups with high potential for commercialization and global market potential. The project encourages participation of female-led, Indigenous-led and international start-ups. Companies demonstrating the greatest potential will be awarded grants to start their businesses.

For the first time, six of Atlantic Canada’s leading incubators, accelerators, and support organizations have joined as partners to deliver on this project. Nova Scotia was pleased to contribute $100,000 to this project in recognition of the potential of ocean tech for Nova Scotia. This project furthers our commitment to building a world-class ocean technology ecosystem, leveraging regional strengths and creating new opportunities.

As we all know, the forestry sector is undergoing significant transition with the closure of Northern Pulp on January 31, 2020. We know this is a difficult and uncertain time for people in the forestry sector. Government made a commitment to help, to work alongside the sector to create a thriving, sustainable, forestry industry across Nova Scotia. We are following through on this commitment as the sector transitions to a strong and sustainable sector, which we know is an economic driver across rural Nova Scotia and all of our province. The forestry transition team with government, industry and post-secondary representation continues to meet and talk with the sector on how government can respond to short- and longer-term needs.

While the sector is adjusting to a changing marketplace, government is offering short-term supports for workers and targeting programs for forestry businesses. More than $23.5 million in initiatives have already been announced. With the endorsement of the forestry transition team, government is supporting the Forestry Innovation Rebate Program that will fund innovative private sector capital projects; the Forestry Contractors Financing Program, a guarantee for short-term financing for contractors delivered through the credit union system; emergency funding for laid off forestry workers; $7 million for silviculture and road work on both Crown land and private; toll-free online emotional support; investigating new market options for lower-grade wood and high value products; $1.5 million for retraining options to help connect forestry workers with opportunities in skilled trades; employment support for forestry workers at Nova Scotia Works and their centres around the province.

[3:00 p.m.]

On February 12^th, government also announced it was setting aside $50 million in the form of a trust to develop new markets, new products, and new or enhanced processes across the forestry sector to support workforce development. The trust will ensure funding can be used over multiple years to develop new products and new markets to further develop an ecologically sustainable forestry. A trustee board is getting established now and will make spending decisions for that trust.

Of course, as Minister of Trade, I want to say that we have a duty to protect our trade interests as well. We are continually diligent to avoid actions that may negatively impact Nova Scotia’s preferred status with the United States’ Department of Commerce regarding countervailing duties and anti-dumping duties. We will be continuing our social economy strategic plan and sector strategy in collaboration with internal and external stakeholders.

Social economy organizations focus on social, environmental, cultural, and economic outcomes. People and governments are increasingly turning to business for a new type of leadership, one that goes beyond shareholder value. Social enterprises are a key component of the social economy. Social economy organizations contribute to a number of social and economic objectives of the province by using innovative ways to tackle complex social, environmental, cultural, and economic issues. The shift from social enterprise to the social economy in Nova Scotia better supports an outcomes-focused approach. We continue to advance our joint strategies for advancing social entrepreneurship with the sector, with universities and colleges, and other key partners.

In 2019, the Invest Nova Scotia fund has directly invested in the expansion of two provincial social enterprises. Hope Blooms is a social enterprise run by children and youth in Halifax North End. Invest Nova Scotia approved a $1.2 million no interest loan to Hope Blooms to help bridge their ongoing capital campaign for the Global Kitchen for Social Change. The loan is helping to build a new kitchen and triple the number of participants in its programs. Government recently announced an additional $300,000 grant to support the construction of the kitchen that includes an indoor herb garden, industrial kitchen space for eight workstations, and shared cooking and eating space for 120 people. This means Hope Blooms will work with more than 230 children and youth and more than 200 families year-round.

Invest Nova Scotia also approved the grant for $1.4 million to fund a new arts and culture hub in Cape Breton. New Dawn Enterprises, a Cape Breton not-for-profit, will be able to complete the construction of The Convent into a space that will provide affordable studio and workspace for 150 artists and creative entrepreneurs. When complete, the arts and culture hub will feature 21 private studios, 22 workspaces, two presentation spaces, a 400 square-foot gallery, and will house four anchor tenants.

These are two examples of 12 board-approved funding projects representing $14.2 million, Madam Chair.

Events East manages the Scotiabank Centre, Ticket Atlantic, and the Halifax Convention Centre. The Convention Centre opened a little over two years ago and in the last two years has hosted over 300 events, welcomed 190,000 guests, and generated over $100 million in direct expenditures. Having a vibrant, modern convention centre is helping welcome new visitors, drive economic growth, and attract investment for the benefit of all Nova Scotians.

A few highlights of the events that have been hosted at the Halifax Convention Centre in the last few months are the ArcticNet Annual Scientific Meeting in December which saw over 1,000 delegates in attendance; the Loblaw National Kick Off meeting, hosted in January 2020 with over 2,000 national attendees; and the upcoming National Black Canadians Summit being hosted in March. In addition, the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture will host their 22^nd annual Minister’s Conference on trends, benefits, and growth of the fishing and aquaculture industries in Nova Scotia - the largest yet - featuring expertise from all over the world including Norway, Ireland, Iceland, and here in Canada.

In closing, together we are a strong force. We can work with Nova Scotians to build a stronger economy and create opportunity for everyone. It is the responsibility of us all - government, business, Crown corporations, the private sector - all Nova Scotians to work together. I’m encouraged to see the progress we’ve made so far. We’ve laid a strong foundation, and I truly believe the best is yet to come. With that, I’ll invite questions from the Opposition.

THE CHAIR: Thank you, minister. We will start with the PC caucus.

The honourable member for Cole Harbour-Eastern Passage.

BARBARA ADAMS: Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the minister for his opening comments. I just have a couple of local questions and then a sort of regional one.

The minister mentioned a few of the tourism expansion opportunities, including the Halifax waterfront. Fisherman’s Cove is one of the biggest tourist attractions in our community, and I had mentioned before that prior to the last federal election there was a commitment for the wharf in Eastern Passage with a federal, provincial, and municipal allotment of funds. I would just like the minister to confirm for me that that project is still going forward, and if he could advise me as to when that project might begin.

GEOFF MACLELLAN: I can indeed confirm the details of that question for Fisherman’s Cove, this is one that Develop Nova Scotia has directly led and it has been quite a wild discussion in terms of the details around what it would look like. For the member, it’s a $1.7 million project: we’re committed for $500,000, HRM for 20 per cent, then ACOA for the second half of that.

I think Jen and team are here from Develop. I don’t know what we’re looking at for a start date, probably sometime in the Spring, reasonably, but the project completion date is scheduled for this construction season. So, I don’t know. We’ll flip some information down for the member opposite, but I would assume as the usual ebb and flow of these projects, if it’s scheduled to be completed this year, it’s got to be a pretty early start, probably in Spring. Just give me one second here. Just waiting for some of the final details around the actual wharf to be finalized, so that impacts the start date, but it’s all very much confirmed to be completed this year.

BARABARA ADAMS: I thank the minister for that answer. Fisherman’s Cove is a non-profit organization that manages that asset. I’m wondering if you can tell me how many other provincial assets around the Halifax Harbour are managed by non-profit organizations?

GEOFF MACLELLAN: I can tell the member opposite, and she probably knows this anyway, Develop Nova Scotia, in terms of its mandate, does a significant amount of work on the master plan around the harbour, around different wharf projects and the different parcels that are there. They have a pretty significant footprint and role in terms of all those different developments that are on the waterfront. Just quickly, offhand, I think Fisherman’s Cove may be the only one, but we’ll confirm that for sure; by the end of this we could probably confirm, but I don’t think there’s any other than that particular group.

BARBARA ADAMS: Of course, Fisherman’s Cove is one of our most popular for both local and the tourism industry. I’m wondering, given that it is a non-profit, non-profits are all expected to file financials with the Registry of Joint Stock Companies. The Fisherman’s Cove Development Association filed last financials in 2018, but they were 2016 financials. So, I’m just wondering if the minister is comfortable with the fact that that non-profit that’s managing a provincial asset has not filed financials with the Registry of Joint Stock Companies for four years.

GEOFF MACLELLAN: Normally with projects of this magnitude, I think that there would likely be a vetting process. I don’t know whether there’s operational costs ongoing or not for this particular group. I would think that there may be some kind of diligence around most of these projects, for instance, in terms of the security of the investments itself. We’ll certainly verify that to make sure, and we’ll discuss some details on what exactly that process is; in a lot of cases, there is scrutiny around the organization’s health and their ability to manage these things. Certainly, there would be that lens put on it but specific to this, I’ll get the member more information.

BARBARA ADAMS: I thank the minister for that answer. Just one final question. I know that we have four restaurants in my constituency - that’s it - two of them have closed now for different reasons. We are always eager for things to improve tourism.

Given the fact that we’re in a midst of something unprecedented with trips being cancelled, I can only imagine what the minister must be thinking in terms of, if we’re cancelling trips going elsewhere, there’s a potential down the road for people to cancel trips coming this way.

I’m wondering what kinds of conversations the minister is having with business owners both in the tourism industry and in business in general, and I’m thinking, in particular, the insurance industry that is responsible for refunding trips and things; they’re going to have an impact.

I’m more specifically wondering about businesses where if someone is mandated by the Department of Health and Wellness to be quarantined for 14 days but someone doesn’t have that much sick time, is there a contingency in place whereby there can be an emergency unemployment insurance fund or an emergency quarantine fund? Because I can see the situation where somebody’s got to choose well, I’m going to go to work sick because I can’t afford to lose 14 days. I’m just wondering what kind of discussions have taken place with businesses.

GEOFF MACLELLAN: Thank you to the member, very good question. I think that the COVID-19 coronavirus story has been quickly evolving and for us, I know Tourism Nova Scotia, TIANS - the industry association - all of our stakeholders, really, at the Department of Business are increasingly concerned.

In the beginning, when this started it really did seem to be a China problem where a lot of our trade and tourism, the major components of our economic growth of model moving forward, would quickly be impacted. That’s where we started. Now you’re seeing with this virus the increasing impact on the stock market, the impact on travel as the member had referenced; it’s on every continent other than Antarctica, obviously. It’s increasingly a concern.

We’re very much working with Destination Canada, our trade partners abroad, to try to figure out what exactly it is we can do to mitigate any of the impact that it will have. It is much speculation now, but I think it would be naïve to suggest that it’s not going to have an impact or it’s not going to be felt. I think it’s being felt now, and it almost increases and gets worse day by day.

[3:15 p.m.]

I know the member has heard the Premier talk about some of the issue with sickness for government employees, but in terms of the small businesses and businesses in general - as the member referenced restaurants in her riding and community - I think that the business mitigation strategy will be led by the private sector.

We will play any role that we can; I think that we all join and just brace and hope that this isn’t as bad as it feels like it’s going to be at this point. I think given the resilience of the private sector here in Nova Scotia, certainly business confidence is important. I think that keeping that positive message and keeping the fever and the panic from spreading as best we can is really a credible part of this as well; for the member, we’ll certainly continue to impact that. For the Department of Business, this really has emerged as a key issue that we’ve got to more than keep our eye on to really be engaged in what we can do to get ahead of any of the negative impacts from the COVID-19.

BARBARA ADAMS: Thank you, Madam Chair, and I’m going to pass over my time to the member for Cumberland North.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Cumberland North.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: My first question for the Minister of Business is can he update the people of Cumberland North on the future plans for the Visitor Information Centre that’s currently located at the border of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick? It’s a very busy Visitor Information Centre.

We’ve seen a lack of investment, I guess I will say, in that facility. In the infrastructure, the playground for children has been removed and not replaced; accessibility to bathrooms for the public is decreased in the amount of hours. Certainly, when you enter Nova Scotia, it’s the first thing that our tourists and visitors come upon. It’s used. The numbers have not gone down at all. The amount of people using it, I think, has only increased.

I’m wondering if the minister can update what his department is planning for that Visitor Information Centre?

GEOFF MACLELLAN: I think, of all the VICs that we have, that one is certainly the busiest I would think, just by way of the corridor that it sits on. There has always been a challenge with respect to the future of the VICs. I think that, in fairness, because of the online realities and the changing model of information and how it gets disseminated, I think there was probably a bit of a dip in terms of the usability and the number of hits on those particular sites.

It didn’t take long for the industry and those who use those sites, and those in each respective region where the VICs exist, to voice their concern and voice their lack of support for any idea that would change the location or change the access to those sites. I think that lesson and directive was heard loud and clear for us. I think with Tourism Nova Scotia and Develop Nova Scotia, from that place-making capacity, there is an ongoing conversation about what that looks like. We’ve had a number of different discussions around ways to modernize those, to make, if it’s information based, to increase the value of that information; if it’s around any of the personnel pieces or what has to be done differently, I think that we’re certainly open to that.

I have had the opportunity to meet a number of the staff from all of our respective sites, excellent people, incredible ambassadors of Nova Scotia. It’s not coincidence that they’re working for us in the Visitor Information Centres.

I think that in terms of the bricks and mortar, that’s one we’ll check in with TIR. Regardless of what’s happening on the operational side with the VICs, we can’t have those falling into disrepair as they really become beacons for the province; they’re sometimes the first things that visitors see, particular to that site. So, we’ll follow up with TIR on that. From a capital side, we kind of get the funding rolled through and then we administer that for the VICs themselves - we’ll check on the particulars. It’s the playground and the overall, sort of, aesthetics of the building? That’s something that we’ve got to be very mindful of while we figure out the transition. There’s no plan for either one thus far. The bricks and mortar piece, I think, is easy to check into, and we’re still ongoing. We’ll make sure that if there is a bit of a change in the VICs themselves, it will be for the better and it’ll be in collaboration with those on the ground.

I think we probably learned our lesson that they not only are extremely valuable, but they’re very much part of the solution for each local community in which they operate. We want to make sure that we just do the best, have the best plan, and move forward in the right way. We’ll absolutely follow up on that.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: Just a follow-up comment about our Visitor Information Centre. We have a lot, a vast amount, of local crafters and artisans that would love to have an opportunity to sell their wares at our Visitor Information Centre.

Currently, the vendor there is not a Nova Scotia company. We have a lot of beautiful products with the Nova Scotia flag on them that are made in China. There’s a real opportunity there to showcase Nova Scotia-made products by Nova Scotia artisans, and I know there are vendors in the Amherst area that have had discussions with the Department of Tourism on this issue. I just ask, sort of my final note about that issue, is that the department consider the value of having Nova Scotia artisans actually being the ones that are selling their wares at these visitor information centres. It’s a real opportunity for them, and it’s authentic to Nova Scotia versus products that are made in China with a Nova Scotia flag on them. So, I’ll just leave that.

My next question, comment, is around Develop Nova Scotia. I know there has recently been an announcement with funding for internet. By far, it is the number one barrier to economic development in Cumberland North. We have a large centre in Amherst, 10,000 people, which does very well with internet; almost the rest of the entire region of Cumberland North, around 7,000 people, have less than adequate cellphone coverage and internet coverage.

I know there has been an announcement, but it’s very frustrating for me as MLA. These are provincial dollars, and whenever I ask where the money is going, where it’s being invested, what communities, I’m not being provided any information. People expect me to know. I don’t know who to ask - I shouldn’t say that - whenever I’ve asked, I keep being told you’ll find out, the information is coming.

By far, it is the number one issue that I’m hearing about from businesses and or wannabe entrepreneurs. We have a ton of people moving back to Cumberland North, retiring, that still want to do consultant work; they’re semi-retired, they’re moving along the beautiful Gulf Shore, they’re very well off. I had one gentleman that used to work for NASA. He’s still doing engineering consulting but doesn’t have adequate internet.

It’s a real barrier and I’m just wondering if the minister can make a comment about how we can get more information.

GEOFF MACLELLAN: I used to work for NASA, too. I probably know that person. How come you’re laughing, deputy? I could work for NASA! How dare you. (Laughter)

I think there was a lot of head nodding when the member was venting her frustrations because I can tell you that’s on all sides of the House with respect to broadband. I always take an opportunity, and I know the member would probably know this, but Develop Nova Scotia was handed a task with completely uncharted territory, we were fortunate to be able to pull together the $200 million by way of a royalty agreement that really found a home through much discussion and deliberation and on the advice of the Premier that we would invest this money here. Outside of that, we were tracking to spend probably $10 million a year on broadband, which would have gotten us nowhere; by the time you spent that money you would be starting over, even in those regions where you invested, let alone not getting to those that were completely underserved.

I think that with Develop Nova Scotia, once the money was identified, it really became about building out that plan that didn’t exist, that doesn’t exist anywhere; certainly, hats off to Jen Angel and the Develop board, the way they’ve built it. I’m really proud and confident in the model that they built around how these projects get considered and then ultimately funded. The numbers that we’re tracking to are considerable. Phase One was incredibly successful in terms of the 42,000 homes that were added to that broadband complement.

Having said all of that, I’ve heard the frustration from the member before, and all jokes aside, from all members of the House about when they can get information and when’s this going to happen in their community. The one thing I try to assure our own caucus, and I would say to the member opposite, there’s nothing’s secretive or untoward or being held for any reason. I say this to our own folks here on this side.

When the tenders are being prepared, when the RFPs go out - Phase One was a big one and successful with a lot of money laid out - Phase Two will be around the same general area. We just sort of rely on those RFPs that are built by technical experts and they decide where particular aspects of the projects are going, where the money is being spent, obviously, and who’s doing that work.

I think that the long and short of it is, I don’t know if the member has had the opportunity to sit with Develop Nova Scotia - so the member is saying that she has. I think that we could certainly look back and get some further information if there’s any coming. I think that Phase One touched certain areas of the county, but not necessarily the areas that the member is referring to. I think that Phase Two will take another big swath and identify some of those underserved areas.

I think the best thing, looking for specifics, I’ll have to follow up with Jen and her team to see if we can get any more just on the specific locations that the member is referencing.

THE CHAIR: Just a reminder for people in the gallery that you are to be sitting back in your seats and not leaning over the bar.

The honourable member for Cumberland North.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: Next, I would say the number two concern affecting business in Cumberland North is the lack of people to work. Whether it’s in trucking, manufacturing, service industry, agriculture, the number two issue coming to me from employers is that they can’t find enough people to hire. Yet, in Cumberland North, the unemployment rate remains relatively still quite high.

So, I’m wondering if the minister can comment on that, what is being done to help employers? I know there’s work being done in immigration, but what about the people that we have already here that are currently unemployed?

That leads me to the point of, what is being done within the minister’s department to ensure that we’re educating our youth, we’re educating the people that we’re retraining, that we’re actually retraining them based on the needs of the market? Like what are manufacturers, what are the needs, what are the jobs available?

I know in Cumberland that hasn’t been the case, and there are many departments involved in this, whether it’s Education and Early Child Development, you know, like what are our youth in high schools being told? What direction are they being pushed for education? Often in rural Nova Scotia, our youth are actually almost being discouraged from staying in their own communities.

Listening to the owner of a huge business in my colleague from Cumberland South’s constituency, the owner of Oxford Frozen Foods, saying how frustrating it is to know that guidance counsellors are saying you don’t want to stay here and work in these businesses, yet many of our manufacturers and processing plants have really strong, well-paying jobs.

So, what are we doing, what is the Department of Business doing to ensure employers have people to work, and to ensure that our youth and other people that are being retrained are being retrained for the actual needs of the marketplace?

[3:30 p.m.]

GEOFF MACLELLAN: I thank the member for the question, incredibly timely and incredibly valid, for sure. I think that, if you go across the regions of the province, there are different requirements and different issues in the localized workforce. When you look at some of the examples she referenced, for example, the population growth and the fact that we’ve seen a bit of a change in the trend of out-migration is great news and everyone celebrates that. At the same time, if there’s a misalignment of either the skills that are existing or, as the member said, the prompting of the particular areas, that always poses a problem, that we’re not recognizing the particular needs of a particular market. I think that that’s something that is very much cross-departmental.

I think Labour and Advanced Education through Graduate to Opportunity looks at identifying - and this is more because I get the point that it’s not about what government’s doing, but what the employers are actually looking for - I think the Graduate to Opportunity program is a link between the employers’ necessity and how they reach out to government and incent students to attach to a job for the first time.

I think that I just see the NSCC and some of the community college programs that are out there; amazing flexibility and their ability to adapt. So, I know that the NSCC at Marconi has been able to identify programs based on the present day, sort of short-term need, which quite frankly wasn’t always an option for our post-secondary institutions. I think that looking at some of the different examples, there’s no easy answer.

As we see the population growth and the reintroduction or people migrating back, or staying, I think we just have to almost individually identify in each area the things we can provide from a financial incentive. Obviously, the social enterprise option is one, incredible work being done through the social enterprise network; I reference the St. F.X. program and how that’s really attaching people specific to the workforce. The apprenticeship program always has a number of different ways, obviously through their system, of identifying ways in which they have students and a potential workforce that really are understanding what the labour market looks like in each particular region.

The reality is that it’s much easier to go through that exercise in metro, in Halifax, than it is virtually for the rest of us. It becomes much more tricky in terms of that attachment, that interest. I think that for us it becomes about, as the workforce necessities change, it truly is a shame that we would have positions not being filled and people who are unemployed. When you see the employment rate, the participation rate increase, that’s the first good sign, but that doesn’t mean anything until you actually match them.

For us, the data becomes incredibly important. I think that being responsive, not only for government, we can’t move slow on these investments. Whether it’s Graduate to Opportunity or Innovate to Opportunity, some of the programs that we have under LAE, I think there are about 1,000 students - workers that are now students, students that are now workers - that are impacted by that specifically. I think it is a lot to unpack, but for me, truly the goal or the focus, the challenge is being responsive enough that when there are opportunities, that we do our best to get the funding in place or the programs in place to make sure that we have interest in people supported and they can jump into those jobs and keep them, and stay here and not leave.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: I’ll turn the floor over to my colleagues from the NDP caucus.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

SUSAN LEBLANC: Thank you, Madam Chair. I’m pleased to kick off the NDP’s hour with a few questions about the film industry. Surprise, surprise. I just want to make some quick comments about the minister’s opening comments: 63 productions in 2019-20; since 2015, $87 million in investment; great news about The Lighthouse getting an Oscar nomination. One of the things that I thought he might say, and did say, and I want to take exception with, and this is going to prove my point with the rest of my questions, is Locke & Key.

Locke & Key is a Netflix series that’s very popular. Locke & Key was supported by the Nova Scotia Film & Television Production Incentive Fund to shoot three days of exteriors in Lunenburg. Great idea, great for Lunenburg, great for tourism - maybe, if people know that it’s Lunenburg - but, Madam Chair, it does nothing to stimulate, or very little to stimulate the actual film industry here. Very few people worked on that shoot. People are talking about how great it is that Locke & Key was supported, but wouldn’t it have been more amazing if Locke & Key had been shot here and the actors and the crews were employed here for a full series, a Netflix series. It would be amazing for Nova Scotia.

As we all know, in 2015, this government cancelled the important and successful Film Tax Credit. I’ve been thinking a lot about the tax credit the last couple of days because the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board has been talking about the extension of the Digital Media Tax Credit and the Digital Animation Tax Credit which is excellent news; but it makes it more and more painful to think about how we thought that the Film Tax Credit was going to be extended and then was cancelled abruptly with no consultation. The decision has been disastrous for the film industry in Nova Scotia. I think everyone still agrees about that. We have not been able to take advantage of the Netflix boom that other provinces are benefiting from. Many of our film workers have left the province. Nova Scotia, now, as a result, is near the bottom of the list for productions choosing where to shoot in Canada.

The minister will say that we’re doing great when it comes to film, but the reality is that a generous analysis of our position would show that the industry has flatlined while other provinces have hitched onto an exponential online streaming boom. We’re the only province in the country where foreign location and service production, representing over half the industry’s value, has decreased, and it has decreased to less than 1 per cent of the national share. We have missed the boat on the Netflix and online streaming booms.

So, in response to a recent question, the minister said that his department has done extensive analysis on the economic impact of the decision to cut the Film Tax Credit. I’m wondering, can the analysis be provided, and will the department be reinstating the Film Tax Credit?

GEOFF MACLELLAN: I’m super surprised by this question. I didn’t see it coming. I wasn’t prepared. Ha ha ha. Madam Chair, I think it’s fair to say that the member opposite and I have had this discussion through a couple of Estimates now.

I don’t share her negative impression of what the film industry is; I know we were all here for the history. There’s no need to remind anyone in this House, and certainly on this side, of what rocky times we’ve had in the past. It’s the reality of when we made that change and the reaction from the sector, no question. But look, I still, first of all, to answer the question, we are not looking at revisiting whatsoever. We’re certainly staying with this fund.

I don’t recall, not that I’m challenging the member’s recollection or the information she has, I don’t know where I would have said that about the comparative analysis; I’m not aware of having any comparative analysis. If the member could follow up on that one either now or at a different point.

There’s a lot of unpacking to do around the numbers of what they looked like before. Obviously, it’s very much documented that we’re in the same range in terms of investment: $25 million this year will be that investment in the incentive fund. Our portion of the national share for productions is always - always has been and still is - in the 1 to 2 per cent range. We’re competing. We’re in, sort of, that range of Manitoba in terms of size, relative size. I’d be interested, the member also referenced some of the other provinces and this isn’t flippant, I’d be curious to see what’s happening in Alberta because I know they had a significant reduction; I don’t know if that impacts us. Hopefully it does. Hopefully, quite frankly, we get some of that traffic, some of those productions that would have set up shop in Alberta who obviously won’t be doing it there now.

Our per production support is, my understanding, similar to the monsters: Ontario, B.C., Quebec. Ontario, B.C. and Quebec are no doubt the biggest players in this sector in terms of provinces; we’re never going to be B.C. or Ontario. It’s just the reality of it. There’s way more factors other than the incentive fund/tax credit that production operations would go to. Obviously, the number of amenities and the infrastructure that B.C. or Ontario would have far eclipses what we have here, and that’s always going to be the case. They’ve been way ahead of this race for a very long time because of their size and the investments that have taken place over the years.

I love the idea, quite frankly, of a sound stage. I’ve spoken to Mike Volpe a number of times about it; a production facility in Burnside. The work that was being done here by Marc Almon and the crew around some production infrastructure that’s in the works and out there for the sector.

But at the end of the day, there are a lot of factors that the member opposite referenced. Locke & Key and around some of the B-roll that would be part of that production. That is one of the drawing points, obviously, the scenery and the historic nature of some of our landmarks, our backdrops.

I had the opportunity to see both the on-location, the location where The Lighthouse was shot, and saw the production facility in Burnside; pretty cool to see how they make one into the other. That was a tremendous production. That was just an amazing thing that we should be proud of, but we’re not taking credit for it. The work that was done here on the ground by the Nova Scotia workforce with respect to that was absolutely incredible. I think that any accolades that they receive are much deserved. I’m not making this about our incentive fund, but that was a good flag for Nova Scotia productions, notwithstanding any of the government relation.

[3:45 p.m.]

I also have a relatively higher level of optimism, I think, than some just around the relations. Again, that’s not directed at the member, but I feel like there is a healthy rebuild or a stabilizing of the sector. That’s just anecdotal for me. It seems like there’s not a whole lot of uncertainty out there. There are a number of different aspects of that particular incentive fund to unpack, but for me, the local content - everyone agrees with local content. We don’t have a monopoly on liking local content, but I think that the shift in the type of production probably changed some of the productions that come here, obviously.

For me, that’s sort of that domestic focus and the local content was a good drawing card to that particular model for investing in the sector. I think we’ll, obviously at this point, it’s very clear that we’ll agree to disagree.

I like the incentive fund structure more so than the tax credit for government purposes, and that’s not just for us, it’s for any government in any jurisdiction. With respect to the certainty in terms of what it’s called or when it’s paid out, this just makes it easier to be within a fiscal year as opposed to being over a number of years. The certainty is important in terms of the investment and understanding what that return is for Nova Scotians. The overarching value for me is that local content.

SUSAN LEBLANC: Just to address the minister’s question about when his department said he had done extensive analysis, it was from a Question Period - I believe October 2019 - I’ll give you the exact date. When I asked about the analysis, the minister said “We’ve done extensive analysis around the program. Obviously, this new incentive fund allows for a focus on local labour,” which he just spoke about, “and local content. There’s certainly investment in terms of that, and that’s reflected in the numbers.” That’s from Hansard, so if you need it to be tabled, I can do that after.

There’s a number of things I want to reply to there. I wish I had a whole hour to talk about this. I guess we’re going to agree to disagree on the tax credit. It’s befuddling that the government thinks it’s appropriate, or thinks that the - and I agree with this, don’t get me wrong - that the Digital Animation Tax Credit can be extended and it works, but for some reason the film tax credit wasn’t working. I have heard from many people who work in the film industry that we are not competitive because we don’t have a film tax credit. Dollar for dollar on production spending, we’re competitive, but it’s the way the spending is done. Yes, we will never be B.C. or Ontario. Ontario has so much film production right now that it cannot sustain it and is bubbling over and going to other provinces; but it’s not coming here because we don’t have a film tax credit.

This is documented in lots of places, Madam Chair, but if the minister is so excited to support local content, then I will ask this.

This was going to be my last question, but I’ll ask it right now: Why then, after many, many requests from the film industry is there not an equity fund developed?

When the tax credit was cancelled, so was the $2 million equity fund. It was replaced with a very small fund to support local screenwriters. It’s not the same thing; it’s not money that can be leveraged to get other money from other film funding sources.

If the minister is truly serious about supporting our local film industry, then he would make sure that there was an equity fund established today. So, can the Minister comment on that?

GEOFF MACLELLAN: Thank you, Madam Chair, and to the member, a couple of things. Just based on the Hansard piece there, I don’t know where I said that we’ve done analysis; we’ve done analysis on the tax credit versus the film fund, but I don’t know if there’s a distinction there between. I wasn’t suggesting that we’ve done any significant analysis based on the outcome of the film fund versus the tax credit.

All of our data comes from Telefilm Canada, so the external information that we use and any other public analysis - we haven’t done our own - just based on what we see, it’s everything that I’ve seen and everything that the department has viewed is comparable to what it was. I know that the member is very much connected to the industry, more so than I am, in fairness, but I haven’t heard that. Not to get anyone in particular in trouble, but I haven’t heard that producers are lamenting about the tax credit being gone and the incentive fund being in its place. I literally haven’t heard that one time.

For me, it becomes about the flow through, what I’ve been told is that it just becomes about the access and flow through of the money. There has never been any distinction for me directly that they preferred one over the other. No question, also, that the type of production has changed. It’s less of the service productions than before because it’s a changing dynamic; no question about that. We tend to feel and believe that that is our best place to be in terms of what productions we have.

Again, the local content is our focus. That doesn’t suggest that the member or the NDP think it shouldn’t be locally focused, of course it should. I just have a different impression of the negative impacts now. Obviously, the uncertainty, the relationship, the confidence of the sector had been impacted by the changeover. You can’t hide that. My thought, and again from my discussions and interactions, is that there is a level of stability now.

On the equity fund, which is the question, I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad idea, but the reality is that we’ve got a funding commitment now of $25 million. That’s a significant investment in this sector. I think that we’re about to, I think it’s next year is the five-year review. We’ve signalled many times that, not to sort of reshape the pieces of the pie, but if Screen Nova Scotia and other stakeholders weren’t happy with the way that $25 million or some similar number was being allocated, and they see a difference now, then by all means we would be happy to have that conversation. If there were additional funds to add to an equity fund or other components of the sector, then obviously that’s a different conversation.

Five years ago, when we implemented this, I guess it’s into the fifth year now, the online content hunger wasn’t there. There wasn’t as much. It was emerging then, but not like now. It’s incredible. I think that, to the member’s point, that’s not lost on any of us. If there are opportunities here to get into that Netflix world in a greater capacity than we are, then obviously we want to do that. I don’t really feel, or don’t get the impression, that the sector believes that film and screen and those activities are completely dead here. It seems to be on a pretty stable footing, but I’m not trying to convince the member of that. I just have a different impression based on the conversations that I’ve had over the last number of months.

SUSAN LEBLANC: Thank you, Madam Chair. Impressions are one thing, but actually having conversations with everyone who is in the industry is another thing. I also have had conversations with Screen Nova Scotia, with a number of labour unions, and I would say that the minister’s impression - I am not a negative person, I do not want to project negativity about our industry. The people who are working in it are working their butts off and they’re very good at what they do, but I will tell you that there are a number of locally funded, locally made productions this year - first feature films for many filmmakers - that had to be pushed because there’s not enough people to make them now. We used to be operating with three full crews in this province, and now we have two crews. Anything that’s - other than Diggstown or a series like that, which is awesome - just can’t be done.

First feature filmmakers are getting their productions pushed because we don’t have enough people. And why don’t we have enough people? Because they left to get jobs elsewhere when the tax credit was cancelled, and that is the God’s honest truth. There is no debating it. Everyone knows that is true. The crews are gone. I know where we can get money for the equity fund. We could cut less to corporate taxes, Madam Chair. If we didn’t cut corporate taxes and spending $70 million on a corporate tax cut, we’d have a couple of million left over to support our locally grown film industry of young people, who the Premier says he wants to stay here and bring back to the province, but without that, it’s going to be pretty tough.

Madam Chair, the minister just mentioned that another reason why we don’t have a full level of film production is because we don’t have a sound stage. That is something that has been asked for by the film industry here. It is a great idea. There has been discussion about it. I know that there is a sound stage now running in Burnside, but I’m wondering if there’s any funding for a sound stage in this budget, and if not, if the minister could provide us with a detailed timeline on when there might be.

GEOFF MACLELLAN: I thank the member for the question. I know she referenced the sound stage being up and operating. Obviously, it has been for quite some time, but was it an investment to secure it, was it an ask to secure that? (Interruption) So it is running now as we speak.

First of all, again, I was hopeful. I had assumed that it was still ongoing there. It’s incredible. I saw The Lighthouse set up there, and then Diggstown, so it was incredible to see. I know that the member gets passionate about it, and I don’t blame her. It’s remarkable to see the amount of people and the sheer that takes place on these shoots. It’s something that everyone, if they have the opportunity, should check out.

Between those two, Mr. D was another one that was referenced a few times here, to see how many people are there and the average age. To be honest, I know she’s going to take a dig back when she gets up because I said there’s young people working there, but there is. It’s really a vibrant industry in terms of the demographic and how committed they are to it.

[4:00 p.m.]

For me, and this is one of these times I don’t know how careful I should be in my comments, but I really like that project. I think that for a lot of us, for a lot of our work with respect to the Department of Business and how it’s impacting with Screen Nova Scotia and screen and film across the board, we do the policy work around the investment fund and administer that, or NSBI administers it, on behalf of government. Any of these other investments - I’m trying to think, I don’t think I’m missing any - anything that would be applied to would be through a private sector board.

Invest Nova Scotia happened to be the place that the soundstage went to. I want to tread lightly here, but I thought that was a great idea, a great concept, and I was obviously hopeful that they would have some success there. That’s honestly where I was with it. I think that they had a couple of iterations and variations of the proposal. I don’t know where it sits now, but I think that when you look at the crossover, the Invest mandate and how they fund certain things that aren’t subject to the normal investment envelopes that any of the Crown corporations have, I just thought it was a good fit.

I don’t know what exactly the rationale was for that; that’s their work independently, but I’m not sure if there’s a reapplication back into Invest Nova Scotia or not. If there was anything that we could do in terms of supports, I like the idea. We’ve got our investment fund, the incentive fund, but anything else that would help with some of those overarching infrastructures that support the industry across the board, I always think it’s a pretty reasonable idea to explore those.

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Dartmouth South.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the minister and his senior staff and assorted friends in the gallery. I have 16 pages of questions and 32 minutes, so I won’t get to them all.

I want to start with just a couple of questions around short-term rental regulations. This is something we’ve talked about frequently. We saw the updated Tourism Accommodations Act since last session. Since then, research from McGill has helped us understand the impact of the phenomenon of Airbnb on the rental housing market, particularly here in HRM. We now know that 740 long-term housing units have been converted to the short-term market in Halifax alone. This represents 1 per cent of our housing stock. We’ve also learned from this research and from the experience in Quebec that it’s vital that all short-term rentals be required to register; this is the position of TIANS, this is the position of the mayor of Lunenburg.

What we’ve heard from the minister is that we need to understand the impact before we regulate further, but this seems sort of chicken and eggish to us. We feel like, in fact, we might as well err on the side of regulation so that we can truly understand the full picture.

My question to the minister is: Is the government considering requiring that all short-term rentals be required to register, and if not, why not?

GEOFF MACLELLAN: I thank the member for the question, it really is a critical one for our department. It’s one that has taken up a lot of our oxygen for the last, I guess, at least year solid, but even before that. This issue was originally brought to my attention directly, obviously the department as well, from TIANS; specifically, to the impact this was having on the tourism accommodations operators who, for years, followed this incredibly antiquated, nonsensical Act that has been in place, that required how many ashtrays you would have to have in the room, the number of lamps, floor mats, and things like that. Just crazy stuff. That system was one where accommodations operators would pay a licensing fee per the number of rooms, and they had to adhere to all of these incredibly silly, very much dated, requirements. They wanted the playing field levelled, was the Darlene Grant Fiander mantra, and it made perfect sense. Those accommodations operators finally got to a place where with the growth in tourism, they would finally have an opportunity to really have healthy seasons. They still had to follow those regulations, make investments in their particular infrastructure, and now, all of a sudden, this phenomenon of the sharing economy, Airbnb, comes along.

Clearly, those who are offering accommodations using those platforms - Airbnb is the common one, but there’s many now, there are probably half a dozen or better - they don’t have to register; they don’t need a licence; they don’t pay fees; their only requirements, really, are personal income and HST remittances if they’ve made more than $30,000. That was incredibly unfair.

This came out of nowhere, and quite frankly, in Glace Bay - it’s hitting everywhere now - we don’t have the housing problem that was of the dire situation that’s here. It took a while to get to that point. There are some challenges, for sure, but not to the extent that we see here on the peninsula and in Halifax metro as a whole, and in many places in the province.

That’s sort of a learning endeavour for me directly. When the NDP in particular started to bring up the issue of short-term housing rental options and how it’s impacting the housing stock, it became very clear why. The reality is that the sharing economy around accommodations is coming. There’s no stopping it. It was the wild west of zero regulation until now, so regardless of whether or not there was any sort of regulation stipulation put around it, these things were taking place. What was happening, and the member’s numbers around referencing the study that was done and the impact, that’s true and that’s what it’s going to be.

I think this data gives us the opportunity to see what we do about that. I think that having the data and an understanding of what’s happening in this shared economy world will give us the information that we need. Municipalities are going to be different across the way, so I think that for the provincial government it’s to set that overarching regime and let the municipalities figure out what they have to do. I know that there are some municipalities that are looking at outright bans of short-term rentals in certain areas of their municipal units. I think that’s the freedom we should give. For me, no matter what the policy is, there’s always a fine line between downloading and giving the responsibility that suits them; this is the case of sort of the right touch. If a municipality deems that they have to do something particular for their area, they should.

From the housing stock and societal housing impact, I think it is a real problem. I think we’ve got to know what the data tells us is actually happening, and then we’re in a position to do something different; not just from the Department of Business, but Municipal Affairs and Housing, DCS, and other entities within government across departments and other levels of government, and how we impact this.

With respect to who will be covered under this legislation, I guess those who see it differently, I understand their point, but I respectfully disagree. I think that if the original intent, and if you think back to when you first heard about the sharing economy and Airbnb, this became about mom and pop in Ecum Secum, or mom and pop in Meat Cove in northern Cape Breton. They have a home, they’re empty nesters or it’s a big home or whatever the case may be; they have a room to rent and someone comes and pays for that room. They make some cash, and everybody wins. That was the original idea for me of Airbnb.

I always use this anecdote, but for the first probably five years of my time as an MLA in Glace Bay, one of the main things that I heard in the office when people would come, businesses and people who were interested in the economic future would say, we need a hotel in Glace Bay, boy. We can’t have people here if we got no hotel. In the last five years, I haven’t heard that, because the sharing economy has filled that gap.

If this is mom and pop in Glace Bay that are renting a room in their house, I think that’s reasonable. I don’t think that that part of the sharing economy demographic and market should have to go through the red tape of registering, pay a fee, and do all the things that a corporate entity or a commercial entity would. I see it very differently. I think that prompting those folks to gain extra cash to offer up that part of their home that they’re not using anyway, I think is a reasonable thing.

Anyone else, they should be subject to registering, they should pay fees, and they should obviously adhere to the letter around taxation. If you’re buying duplexes, if you own a condo unit, if you’re doing this as a commercial enterprise, you should be registered and everyone in Nova Scotia should know who you are and what you’re doing. That, for me, is the distinction.

Having said all that, I think that once we have this information, when we have this data, we will be able to glean what the impact is of the primary residents that, for us, should be exempt versus developers, versus commercial, versus residential who is not their home, and then we’ll truly be able to see what the impact is.

To the member’s question specifically, that’s where I sit now. I don’t think primary residences should be part of this registration system. But once we have the data going through a year of this new legislation and this new regime, if there is a need to change that, we’ll always look at changing that; that was the commitment we made to TIANS. We would encourage primary residents to register if they want to; I think that it’s a reasonable thing to be plugged into that system. If you want to be part of the marketing and you want to be part of the promotions of sharing economy, then why wouldn’t you register? It’s going to be a reasonably small fee. Forcing them wasn’t in line with what we saw as being the right thing to do at this point, but we’re open to revisit that should it be warranted.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you. I might not even get three questions.

I will say, in response to some of those comments say, it’s not just Ecum Secum or Meat Cove, it’s downtown Dartmouth or North End Halifax. Housing affordability is a huge issue. So, we acknowledge that that narrow kind of original, originating idea around the sharing economy makes perfect sense. We take no issue with that.

Based on what we currently understand from the recently released fee structure for registration, a full-time commercial short-term rental with five bedrooms pays $150 a year; the platform, platforms like Airbnb, pays $500 a year. Respectfully, we feel as though that could be revisited and there could be some kind of interesting ideas around how that revenue could be spent potentially. We’re also still looking forward to hearing which hosts will be required to pay commercial taxes, because we know that’s another incoming part of the regulatory framework.

I’m going to move on to my next questions so that I have an opportunity to ask about a couple of other topics.

Clearwater Seafoods is potentially up for sale, and apologies if one of my colleagues has already asked about this because I wasn’t in the Chamber. There are a lot of people in the industry who are concerned about what this could mean for Nova Scotia’s fishing industry. Concerns about recent monopolizing trends already at play in that industry combined with the potential for foreign sale that could see profits leaving the province, and downward pressures on harvesters’ incomes. This could potentially have disastrous impacts on fisheries and the thousands of people employed there.

So, we’re wondering what the government is doing to analyze or assess what the risks of this are; just sort of be in front of it as we know that there’s now conversation of a sale and whether the Province is either looking to somehow encourage local ownership, if that’s possible. Maybe the minister could comment on the possibility of that, whether there’s the potential of government investment in that space, and anything else that the minister would like to share about that.

[4:15 p.m.]

GEOFF MACLELLAN: Certainly, when you think about the staples and the pillars of economic generation in Nova Scotia, Clearwater jumps up to the top of that list pretty quick. Mr. Risley and the MacDonalds have built that from, we always say, the back of a truck, and what they’ve built is incredible.

The reality is it’s a publicly traded company, so they have money, fair to say, from all over the world in terms of the investment in that. There are federal laws, though, and rules around the licences themselves, so that’s one layer of protection. They just won’t get snapped up by foreign entities or foreign conglomerates without a pretty stringent process. That’s one layer of protection, which is in the federal domain.

For me, and for us more importantly, we’re extremely confident that Clearwater is going to stay put, just based on the supply chain in which they operate. It’s our Nova Scotia product, by and large. Clearly, they purchase from other jurisdictions, as well. For us, we have, arguably, the best workforce for the supply chain from the water to the shelves or to the plate. Our systems, where we are in terms of modernization of that particular sector, to me, are second to none.

I don’t know how you buy Clearwater and glean any advantage by moving any of those things - not moving those things out of Nova Scotia but downgrading the supply chain with respect to wages and such. I can’t see that Clearwater model and that Clearwater entity working without Nova Scotia ownership and Nova Scotia actors. We’re quite confident that the reality is that - again, it’s publicly traded, so there is that risk there, no doubt, but I think that between what it has to offer in terms of the Nova Scotia foundation and the federal rules around the licensing, I think we’re quite confident that it’s going to stay put. It’s not great news because of the stability that Risley and the MacDonalds have brought, but we’re hopeful that it will stay intact as is.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the minister for that answer. I want to ask about rural economic development. We don’t have a department that does that anymore, but, of course, we still think about it. One of the key elements of Nova Scotia’s tourism strategy, as I understand it, is developing a year-round industry. Right now, with the potential impacts on the cruise ships and whatnot, we acknowledge more than ever how important that is, that we need to diversify our tourist offerings.

Currently, seasonal tourism businesses are actually kind of discouraged tacitly from extending their season because they lose the seasonal business tax break before they’re actually confident that they can make it go in the off-season. It’s not just for tourism. It’s really for the vitality of our rural communities. We know that rural communities that have those year-round businesses attract residents, they attract families, all that, and there are so many examples around the province of that.

But to stick to tourism, the Tourism Industry Association of Nova Scotia has a long-standing proposal to address this by allowing seasonal businesses to keep their tax break for an interim period while they experiment with that transition. This proposal makes a ton of sense. The government’s not getting the tax revenue anyway because they’re closed, so it would seem to make sense that the tax break would essentially be status quo. You would have another business offering that would benefit the community and that would also benefit the tourism industry. Can the minister comment on why the government hasn’t taken up this proposal so far, and whether there are plans to do so?

GEOFF MACLELLAN: Thank you, Madam Chair, and again, fantastic question. I guess the short of it is I couldn’t agree more. This is something I’ve learned in detail recently. The member for Victoria-The Lakes would know this very well. There’s a staggering opportunity at Cape Smokey, and it was actually the warden and some of his key people and the Cape Smokey group that brought this to my attention for the first time.

Quite frankly, I didn’t know the magnitude of how this whole thing works. It is a policy under my colleague with the Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing. I have endeavoured and made the commitment that we would revisit this. I think the member said, I’m not sure, but the idea was that it would be a pilot.

I think a pilot is a great idea and concept because it avoids the unintended consequences. I can see the merit in why this would have been put in place so many years ago, but now this just doesn’t seem to be overly logical when you’re trying to build a year-round tourism season. I think the disincentive aspect of that, it’s just not in line with where we are today. We’ve committed to that. I agree we’ve committed to revisiting that. I think that the notion from the group and TIANS was that a pilot would be the way around that just to see how it’s impacted, who would take it up and who wouldn’t. For me, this is an easy one and I think we’ll work with the minister and his team and get to that as soon as we can.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I thank the minister for that answer. I’m encouraged. Is there a timeline?

GEOFF MACLELLAN: It’s very much active. The challenge, I think - and the deputy just reminded me of this part, and I know that the minister probably sat here to influence me and bring this to the attention, as well. The unintended consequence that we referenced is around municipal financing. That’s the worry now.

For me - it was actually a warden that was discussing this with me - the value in changing this supersedes the actual intent of the rules, the legislation, in the first place. We just want to make sure that in working with Municipal Affairs and with the municipal units, identifying where the pilot would be and understanding the financial implications - that’s probably the biggest pitfall that we understand it to be.

The last aspect of this is that there’s a one-year notice requirement. I don’t know if a pilot gets around that, allows us to do the pilot quicker, but there are all the things. This is very much something that we’re engaged in. I’d like to see it as soon as we can. I think it’s just a good news announcement for all the industry, but in particular, for me, just referencing that one project, I just think how many more are out there that would take advantage of this. It’s time.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’m aware of the one-year notice period for this type of project to go forward, but, again, my understanding is that we’re talking about exempting from tax businesses that are currently not open. Therefore, regardless of how people feel about it, I can’t see a way that there’s an actual financial implication because there is no tax being collected from these businesses because they’re not open. Just to close with that, I would say it would be great if the ministers maybe engaged the Federation of Nova Scotia Municipalities on this point. Maybe that’s already happening. I feel like there would be a lot of interest from around the province, and it just feels like a kind of feel-good, no-brainer, rural economic tourist development piece, so we’ll really hope that that gets moving.

With my remaining time, I’ll ask a couple of questions around rural internet. We, I think, have discussed in the past that one of the potential proponents for rural internet was now Lunenburg County. They were disqualified because they didn’t fit the criteria of a - I don’t know if “proponent” is the right word, but an applicant, basically, under that process. I’m wondering if based on what we see - and the minister can correct me if I’m wrong - it appears that there are no non-profit or co-operatively owned providers in this first $46 million round. Is that the case?

GEOFF MACLELLAN: Jen Angel is coming down, so she can help tighten the bolts on some of the specifics. I can tell the member for sure this scenario - again, to be honest - when we’re putting out the word for qualified proponents, qualified service providers, for us from a government perspective, just from different regions, you would probably hope that there would be some mix of different players in that space, in terms of the qualified service providers.

Also, the reality is this is ongoing. This is not a one-and-done project basis. The biggest part of this is in the build-up, in my own opinion, it’s the ongoing. It’s the multi-year commitment. The operational aspect of this is as important as the initial build-out. Really, there’s a host of criteria around who would qualify and who wouldn’t, a very rigorous process that Develop Nova Scotia went through.

We had no hand in it whatsoever. Jen and her team have been leading the charge on that, and we’ve certainly maintained their independence the whole way through, from the RFPs to the proponent selection and the work as it’s ongoing now.

By and large, I think it’s fair to say - and Jen can nod or shake her head if she disapproves of this answer - but basically the internet service providers are largely those private proponents, I think it’s fair to say. There are some municipalities involved. There’s also, I know for sure there’s at least one non-profit that is involved. Most of them are sort of a consortium, or some of them are consortiums, and those municipalities and the not-for-profit are part of that consortium. This could be painted negatively, as this is government money going to the big players, but the reality is this is about performance and about experience and ability to not just build these things but maintain them. It’s fair to say that the mindset, and sort of the approach from Develop Nova Scotia, was that they can be part of teams and everyone has their strengths and requirements and responsibilities inside that consortium, but by and large it would have to be that body of experience and capability to really be part of a successful contract. There are a few municipalities and a not-for-profit, but it’s certainly not commonplace.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you. I recognize that the minister needs time to read the resolution. I do have more questions on this. I’m just going to fire two at you and if the minister can answer, great, and if not, maybe I can get the information later.

To the expertise point, we see that Mainland Telecom has secured a contract in the first round, but we also know that they had their high-speed contract cancelled with Annapolis County for missing deadlines, so we’re curious about the vetting of those folks, just to ensure that they are going to do that long-term service that the minister referenced. Maybe we could talk about that after.

The other piece is that this first round has gotten us from 70 per cent to 86 per cent connected, and we’re told that the cost was $46 million. The fund is $193 million. I guess my question is, is it anticipated that the full amount of that fund will be required to get us to, I think, 95 per cent is the target? And if not, is there any conversation about what happens to the internet trust if there is a surplus?

GEOFF MACLELLAN: Real quickly, Mainland is an experienced ISP and they did pre-qualify, so we don’t have any concerns that we could speak of. I’m not sure what the dispute is. If the member wants to get specific detail, we can certainly follow up on that.

With respect to the fund and the balance, I hope that’s a problem we have, quite frankly. The original Brightstar report said it would cost us $500 million, so that’s what we were tracking to. We thought we had 40 per cent, give or take, for our own funds, and then leverage federal money and private money and that would get us there. If we have the problem of having money left over, I think cellular is probably the focal point. That would make sense. We haven’t done any work on that. I don’t know what we would have to do in certain terms of the internet trust and such to change that.

So, I think that depending on what the ongoing maintenance is for the broadband program afterwards, I think that we could wait and see, but we hope there’s money left over because it would give us flexibility, whether it’s ongoing operational aspects of this or, again, I think our target, if there was any left over, it would be cellphone access.

With that, I’m okay to read the resolution. Again, I want to thank all the staff that are here from the Crown corporations and the department and the tremendous work they do all year round, just not today. I appreciate your effort, your time being here, and it’s only 4:34 p.m., so get back to the office and do something else. (Laughter) Don’t go home. We’ll be watching you. Peter, I’m watching you, buddy.

With that, thanks to the Opposition for your questions, for my folks for being here, and for my caucus for being quiet.

THE CHAIR: Shall Resolution E2 stand?

The resolution stands.

Resolution E43 - Resolved, that the business plans of Tourism Nova Scotia, the Nova Scotia Innovation Corporation (Innovacorp), Develop Nova Scotia and the Nova Scotia Business Incorporated, be approved.

THE CHAIR: Shall Resolution E43 carry?

The resolution is carried.

Time allotted today for consideration of Supply has elapsed.

The honourable Deputy Government House Leader.

KEITH IRVING: Madam Chair, I move that the committee do now rise and report progress and beg leave to sit again.

THE CHAIR: The motion is carried.

The committee will now rise and report its business to the House.

[The committee adjourned at 4:35 p.m.]