HANSARD
NOVA SCOTIA HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
COMMITTEE
ON
HUMAN RESOURCES
Tuesday, October 25, 2011
COMMITTEE ROOM 1
Agency, Board and Commission Appointments
&
Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage
Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services
STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES
Mr. Mat Whynott (Chairman)
Mr. Leonard Preyra
Ms. Becky Kent
Mr. Maurice Smith
Mr. Brian Skabar
Hon. Michel Samson
Mr. Zach Churchill
Hon. Christopher d'Entremont
Mr. Allan MacMaster
[Ms. Becky Kent was replaced by Ms. Michele Raymond.]
[Mr. Maurice Smith was replaced by Mr. Howard Epstein.]
WITNESSES
Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage
Ms. Laura Lee Langley - Deputy Minister
Mr. Lang Jonsmans - Director of Policy
Ms. Patti Pike - Senior Project Executive
Mr. Michael Noonan - Director of Communications
In Attendance:
Ms. Jana Hodgson
Legislative Committee Clerk
Mr. Gordon Hebb
Chief Legislative Counsel
HALIFAX, TUESDAY, OCTOBER 25, 2011
STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES
9:00 A.M.
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Mat Whynott
MR. CHAIRMAN: Good morning. I call the meeting to order. First things first, so I'll ask Jana to make an announcement, please.
MS. JANA HODGSON (Legislative Committee Clerk): Good morning. Regarding fire safety, I would like to mention a few things. In the event of an emergency where we have to leave the room, we'll have to go back out through that door, though the front office, towards the elevators. Please do not take the elevators; we'll have to take the stairs which are to the right of the elevator. We'll go all the way down to the lobby and exit the building, and we would meet at the Parade Square.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Jana. Thank you to everyone for being here today, we'll just go around the room and introduce ourselves.
[The committee members introduced themselves.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you so much for coming today. On our agenda it actually has the department going first but there are only very few appointments today, so I think we'll do our appointments first and get that out of the way. It will probably give you a little more time to present if needed.
What we'll do is move to ABCs, to the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. Mr. Preyra.
MR. LEONARD PREYRA: Mr. Chairman, I so move that Joseph W. Walsh be appointed as a member of the Eastern Counties Regional Library.
1
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are there any questions or concerns? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Mr. Preyra.
MR. PREYRA: I so move that Julian (Jay) Underwood be appointed as a member of the Public Archives Board of Trustees.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are there any questions or concerns? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Now we'll go to the Department of Finance. Mr. Epstein.
MR. HOWARD EPSTEIN: I so move that Mr. Gerard MacKinnon be appointed as a member of the Credit Union Deposit Insurance Corporation.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are there any questions or concerns? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Now we'll go to the Department of Justice. Mr. Skabar.
MR. BRIAN SKABAR: I so move that Ray A. Francis be appointed as a member of the Municipal Board of Police Commissioners for the Town of Kentville.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are there any questions or concerns? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
What we'll do now is move to our witnesses, pass things over to you. I would ask you to introduce your staff and then do your presentation. We'll have questions and answers to follow.
MS. LAURA LEE LANGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning to you all. First of all, I'd like to thank the committee for the invitation to appear this morning and present an update on our progress in establishing the new structure for the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. With me this morning are my team members: our director of policy, Lang Jonsmans; sitting behind me, our director of communications, Michael Noonan; and our senior executive in charge of our transition, Patti Pike. I regret to say that Dale Rushton, director of Human Resources, was unable to join us this morning. She was originally on the list to be here with me today but she was unable to attend. My name is Laura Lee Langley and I'm the deputy minister for the department.
I realize for many of you this will be the very first look at the new department as we've been spending the best part of the last nine months working through the details of establishing a new internal structure to support the work and defining the policy and program areas that are new to the department, while taking a really good look at the alignment and the synergies of the areas that were there to start with in what was the Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage - the things that were part of our everyday business and how we might reorganize things to take the best advantage of the resources we have. Some of that work, I would think it's important for the committee to know, is still underway, but I'm very happy and actually excited to give you an overview of what we've done and where we are to date.
On that note I'll start. I've got about 10 minutes here - maybe a little more, give or take - and then I'm anxious to answer your questions.
As you know, the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage was announced on January 11th of this year. The changes include the move of the Tourism Division from what was the Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage to the Department of Economic and Rural Development, and the move of the Provincial Library from the Department of Education to the new Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. The changes also called for the administrative link between the department and the Offices of African Nova Scotian Affairs, Acadian Affairs and Gaelic Affairs. The opportunity here is about adding heft to the work of those units and giving them a broader network across which their work is supported and encouraged, and I'll talk about that a little more in a few moments.
The final bit of that reorganization of the department responsibilities includes the transition of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation into government as the Minister of Communities, Culture and Heritage is also responsible for Part I of the Gaming Control Act.
These changes in and of themselves were the impetus for a realignment of the department's resources although I will say that some of that work had already been underway, considering the consultation we had last Fall with the arts community around what was necessary to bring along our attention to the arts and the need to support changes in the governance of tourism, which we had been studying for some time and, of course, the government's desire to get back to balance. They were all part of looking at the department and what we could do to help contribute to that effort.
At the Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage last Fall we completed an organizational review to determine areas where, within the department, we could share services, better use technology to reach, interact with, and support our audiences and to look at how we could better share or leverage resources to maximize the opportunities for our stakeholders. The creation of Communities, Culture and Heritage gave us an even broader-scope opportunity to realign the department internally to support this work.
Some of the immediately apparent highlights for us, as a new department, are first and foremost the focus on communities. Building the Communities unit is filled with opportunities for collaboration and impact in every single corner of the province, quite frankly. We have defined our focus around communities, to be focused on communities of interest, communities of practice, geographic communities and regions, as well as cultural communities. That includes the African Nova Scotian, the Acadian, and the Gaelic communities as those that stand out, but we will also be working to establish a Mi'kmaq liaison protocol within our unit and soon we'll welcome the Diversity Round Table into the department as well. We're very excited about having that focus on diversity and social inclusion.
The opportunities for links between and among all of these interests to work together on approach to the various community interests in Nova Scotia has already proven valuable and, as an example, the recent African Diaspora Heritage Trail Conference is just one example of how the entire department resources came behind this effort which would not have happened prior to us coming together as a department.
In addition, this unit has strong connections with our museums, our archives and our libraries across the province. They are the institutions in our communities that provide gathering spots for many of our community-based interests to come together; not to mention, of course, the significance of these institutions in our communities as stewards of our heritage and history, as well, of course, as places of learning.
Other operational advantages to the new structure include our ability to move to a central coordination of many of the functions that were happening in discreet pockets across the divisions of the department. We've taken the time to better coordinate how we would share those resources to maximize them across the entire department.
We have re-profiled our policy unit to establish a focus on evaluation and research capacity, which will allow us to better measure our outcomes and the impact in the community, insofar, for example, as the creative economy is concerned.
Finally, most interesting I think, having one administration serving several ministers is an innovative and collaborative model which means that our stakeholder groups actually have more than one voice at the table bringing their concerns forward. We have one administration with some obvious synergies and efficiencies there as well.
The next few slides give a high-level overview of the department and a lot of things that we took into consideration for us to form the new structure internally. Three of the four divisions of the old Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage are reorganized along the lines that will maximize the use of resources across the department and encourage collaboration across divisions. Then, of course, we have the three divisions that were the former offices. For the most part you will note that they remain intact, it is a business-as-usual approach.
Just to give you the focus on what they're doing still and what their focus is, of course Acadian Affairs primarily is continuing to be concerned with the French-language Services Act and how we're doing across government in French-language services to the Acadian population and other francophones in Nova Scotia. They also are focused on managing the various intergovernmental agreements on French language with the federal government and we have some arrangements with Quebec as well.
With African Nova Scotian Affairs, the most important work is in the community, developing partnerships and initiatives that increase awareness of the story of African Nova Scotians, and of course that promotes self-reliance and sustainability for African Nova Scotians and their communities.
Gaelic Affairs is more specifically focused on language, creating greater awareness of the Gaelic language and history in Nova Scotia and, of course, promoting the Gaelic language through community-based language and cultural learning programs.
One of our reorganized divisions includes archives, museums and libraries. This new division is designed to maximize the synergies amongst our various institutions. As you might expect, there are some very important distinctions that would compel us to maintain the Public Archives, the Provincial Library and the Nova Scotia Museum as distinct branches within the division, notwithstanding, of course, the legislative requirements. But there are opportunities here to share resources, as well as putting a spotlight on the various collections at the same time.
Collection Services, Interpretation and Facility Management will be a shared services branch in this division for all of these bodies, so as we work to make our provincial collection available on-line over the next few years, there are some specific advantages to a collaborative approach. To give you some examples of where we see those advantages, cataloguing, for instance, is something that can be a corporate function so it can be shared across these institutions. We also believe that database management, for example, could be streamlined over time, just to give you a feel for what we mean when we say we can share those resources.
You will note that we make an explicit connection with some of the external and arm's-length bodies which we will partner and work with on a regular basis. You can see those in the presentation in the green bubbles above. Some of the main external and arm's- length bodies that we will be working with primarily through this division include the Provincial Archives of Nova Scotia board, the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia board, the Nova Scotia Museum Board of Governors and, of course, the regional library boards. They are not the only external organizations we'll be working with, or arm's-length organizations and boards, but they are the ones that are mainly to be involved in the business of this division.
Next I'd like to speak to our Secretariat Division. This is a really significant move for this department and I think can be a model for other departments as well. This is our Shared Services Unit. What we're looking to do here is to maximize resources to the department and I've categorized it into four key areas. They are: Information, Risk Management and Business Support; Business Administration and Corporate Initiatives, such as grant administration, for example - and I'll explain that more in a moment - and French-language services, and procurement would fall under that; Marketing, Promotion and Web management is another unit in that division; and Policy & Planning as well.
Here's an example. We found that the administration for grants, for example - we had capacity in every division of the department because we had some grants that were distinct to each of the divisions in the department. The grant cycle works so that there are various deadlines through the year that would be very different for each division, so we found that we had some people who were worked off their feet at some times of the year because of the grant cycle, when at other times of the year maybe they would have a little bit more time in their schedules. Now, what we've done is combined those so that everybody will work on the grant cycles as they come in. That will maximize our turnaround time and certainly maximize our efficiency across the department.
You will also note that the Nova Scotia Gaming Division is on this organizational chart. I want to be clear that the transition of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation is still very much a work in progress. It is still underway and not yet complete. When it is, the operation or the functions associated with gaming - insofar as they concern our department - will report through the Secretariat, which is also our corporate control unit for the department.
Finally I'd like to address the Communities, Culture and Heritage Development Division. This unit is where Communities Nova Scotia will live and where much of the work in building and supporting communities of interest and practice will happen. There are two key components of the work we are undertaking here. The first is in considering the programming needs to support community engagement, and in assisting and building capacities in best-practice approaches to governance of community organizations so that they may be sustainable and healthy in their own communities.
We are also building and programming to support our work in social inclusion, including work in the area of multiculturalism and our connection with the broader communities. On all of these levels our cultural identity offices of African Nova Scotian Affairs, Gaelic Affairs, and Acadian Affairs have important roles to play.
This is also where our work in arts, culture, and heritage programming such as our support for cultural industries, heritage protection, special places protection, and community museums will take place. This unit will work and collaborate with the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council, Arts Nova Scotia, and the Advisory Council on Heritage Property as important partners, for example.
That's just our progress to date, and the high-level view of the structure and some of the program areas within that structure.
As many of you will know and appreciate, our transition is a work in progress. Since January we have been working to study our new department and structure, discussing it with staff and stakeholders and external partners that have an interest in the work of Communities, Culture and Heritage. We are continuing to work with our staff and important stakeholders to refine our vision and our mission as a new department.
What is happening technically, job descriptions are being put together and assessed for the Public Service Commission, so they may be classified. We anticipate the complete transition process would take at least another year but, within the next six to eight weeks, we hope that functionally we'll be operating under the new structure and competitions will still need to be held and business-process mapping will have to take place. Much of that work has begun but it is just not complete.
Our objective, of course, is to maximize the investment in our communities, our arts, our cultural endeavours across the province, and in better preserving and protecting our heritage resources for future generations to enjoy and learn from. It's an ongoing process and I very much appreciate the opportunity to share our thinking with you. I'm happy to take any questions you might have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. We will go into our question-and- answer period here. First on my list: Mr. Preyra and then Mr. d'Entremont.
MR. PREYRA: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It's fascinating, I'm sure, to be present at the creation of a new department and challenging at the same time. I know the government has put a big load on this department, particularly in some kind of building blocks of legislation in particular and I want to ask you about at least two of them.
The whole idea of an independent arts council has been at the centre of the arts community's demand, really, for an agency that would respond more directly and this department is, in part, a response to that when it puts the arts, heritage and culture at the centre of government decision making.
I wonder if you can give us a progress report on where that initiative is, particularly the Arts Nova Scotia, and where do you expect to be six months from now?
MS. LANGLEY: I'm happy to do that. You'll remember that government announced a five-point plan as a response to the arts consultation from last Fall and part of the five-point plan was the establishment of Arts Nova Scotia. Early in the summer Minister Dave Wilson struck a committee of prominent individuals from the arts community, led by our ministerial assistant Pam Birdsall. The other individuals on that committee are Chris Shore, who is involved in the theatrical community; Leah Hamilton, who is a consultant in the community; and Paul Caskey, who is a member of the performing arts community.
They began meeting in early June. I think they have had seven or eight full-day meetings through the summer and early part of the Fall. What they are looking at is what the mandate of Arts Nova Scotia should be, how it will interface with government, what the recommendations are around the terms of reference for that body, what the board might look like, criteria, for example, for board members, recommendations on how government might recruit, I believe for Arts Nova Scotia. These are some of the topics they have been poring over through that time period.
I'm happy to say that we expect very shortly for this committee to come in and present their report to Minister Wilson. I would assume that very shortly after that it would be shared with the broader community and legislation would be put together that would support that work and what their findings have been.
MR. PREYRA: Thank you. I have another question. The other question related to the Status of the Artist legislation and I know that we're a long way from defining what it means. I know it's there as a concept. What is the concept behind it? What is the end goal? What are we trying to accomplish in that area?
MS. LANGLEY: The interesting thing about Status of the Artist legislation is that it can be as broad or as narrow as the community would like it to be. What Status of the Artist legislation generally does is give the artist or those in the creative community a standing within a jurisdiction. So if you do jurisdictional reviews across provinces and the federal government, for example, and look, there can be things in Status of the Artist legislation such as addressing what a living wage would be, for example; or addressing things like potential tax incentives for those in the arts. Those are some of the things that can be contained in the legislation.
The approach that we have taken is the Creative Nova Scotia Leadership Council has formed a committee of people in the arts community and they are actually doing jurisdictional reviews and considering what kind of legislation would be best for people in our communities, so a made-in-Nova Scotia Status of the Artist - look at the Status of the Artist, if you will. That work is ongoing. Jim Morrow from Mermaid Theatre is actually chairing that committee and doing some great work. We hope to hear from them, as well, in the early part of the new year and then I think we can assess what the timelines need to be based on how complex the recommendations are around what that should look like for Nova Scotia artists.
MR. PREYRA: Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. d'Entremont.
HON. CHRISTOPHER D'ENTREMONT: Thank you for the presentation. It's interesting to see how everything is coming together. Of course I'm going to ask a little question around the Office of Acadian Affairs because of my attachment to Acadian Affairs and how we've been able to bring that office to the point that it is today. Whether this is the right place or wrong place, I'm not sure yet; I need to see how it's going to be working over a longer period of time. I'm just wondering - Acadian Affairs at one time basically had the executive director reporting to the deputy to the Premier, the deputy of the Executive Council, insofar as trying to get departments to adopt francophone services or French services. How, in the new structure, do you find is this work happening? Are we able to entice other departments of government to do more for the francophone community?
MS. LANGLEY: Thank you for the question. Now, the change in terms of reporting would be that the executive director now reports to me, but we do have a committee of deputy ministers and I think that would have been the practice in the past, and that has been maintained. The committee of deputy ministers assesses any changes in approach or we really take our cues from Vaughne Madden who is the current executive director of Acadian Affairs. In fact, Vaughne has periodic opportunities to present to the entire deputy's table on our progress across government and indeed to make sure that we get those French-language service plans in and we're able to hold departments accountable to their plans. There isn't a big change in approach other than the reporting line, which now comes through me.
MR. D'ENTREMONT: The second point to that is, do you foresee at some point a change in ministerial responsibility? I know that's more of a Premier question, but right now you basically have two ministers responsible for this, where you've got Dave on one side and you've got Graham on the other. Do you see that changing in the longer term or is it just okay the way it's working? I don't know what the answer is and it's sort of a shot there.
MS. LANGLEY: Of course, I wouldn't dare presume what the Premier might want to do with his Executive Council. I will say that what we're hearing now from the communities, from all of the cultural identity offices, is the realization that they now have two ministers who sit at the table advocating on their behalf. Of course, the fact that Minister Wilson is fluently bilingual helps, as well, so we have two ministers who work on behalf of the Acadian community and from what we're hearing so far, that's a good thing.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Churchill.
MR. ZACH CHURCHILL: Hello, good to see you again. I have some questions around the role the department now plays with tourism. I know Tourism was moved into the Department of Economic and Rural Development; however, there seems to be an historical and practical link between promoting our cultures and heritage here and marketing the province for tourism. Is there still a partnership and a collaboration going on between the two departments?
MS. LANGLEY: Thank you for the question. There is no firm technical link between the Tourism division of the new department and our department, but, of course, on many different levels in order for arts, culture, heritage, the archives, and all of those entities to work, the cultural offices, we have to have horizontal collaboration across the entire government. Tourism is one of those areas where, in fact, I would agree with you that culture is one of the significant differentiators in our marketing for tourism around the world; it's one of the things that attracts people here. We hope over the next while to work with Tourism to develop a cultural tourism strategy, for example, which can be part of what they do in their marketing campaign.
I guess the answer to your question is, there is no formal link, but I don't think any of us can do our jobs effectively if we don't have those horizontal ties and those collaborative ties across departments. In this one there are a number of projects which we continue to work with Tourism on. For example, the African Diaspora conference was one of them where, again, we looked at the African-American tourist trade to try to attract people here, so there are certainly some natural ties.
MR. CHURCHILL: Are there people in the department whose job it is to work on that collaborative model with the Department of Tourism?
MS. LANGLEY: Yes, in fact, there is. Under the five-point plan we have struck an interdepartmental officials committee and that committee is tasked with looking at various interests in arts culture specifically, but it wouldn't preclude them from considering some of the other lines of business as well and how we engage with departments across the system. Our current acting executive director of Culture, Marcel McKeough is the chairman of that intergovernmental committee. There are members on that committee from the Departments of Economic and Rural Development and Tourism, Finance, Education, Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, and Labour and Advanced Education - I hope I haven't missed anybody - and Health and Wellness. Those are the departments we most commonly engage with, but it wouldn't mean that they couldn't ask other representatives from other departments to join us as well if the need arose.
MR. CHURCHILL: I'm thinking of the main tourism association in my area, Yarmouth and Acadian Shores and because of the somewhat unique, I guess, situation we have in southwest Nova Scotia, with the Acadian culture, the English and Scottish culture, and the Acadia First Nation cultures, it's a real opportunity to market the area as a cultural destination. I know there are some local people who are putting their thoughts together on how to do that at a local level. Would that be something that your department would be involved in or would that just be Tourism?
MS. LANGLEY: I think Tourism would take the lead on something like that and I, of course, wouldn't want to speak for them, but I would certainly say that we would be very interested and want to be at that table for all of the reasons that you just mentioned.
MR. CHURCHILL: Thanks. How much time do I have?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do you have another question?
MR. CHURCHILL: I do, sir.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure, go for it.
MR. CHURCHILL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. He's a very kind chairman this fellow over here. I have some questions around the gambling report too. The department released its Responsible Gaming Strategy - I think that's what it was called - on March 25th. The strategy stated that the conduct-and-manage function for gambling for the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation would be moved to a division within the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. Has that happened?
MS. LANGLEY: That is a work in progress. We have a transition committee in place and that work is underway. As you might imagine, the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, one of the things we had to look at in a very detailed way are the various contractual entanglements and obligations that the Gaming Corporation itself might have had with external bodies and how we can approach the transition of that body into the department in a way to honour some of those things or wrap them up in a timely way, but certainly respecting all of the obligations that they might have had.
So we have a transition team that includes representatives from our own department, the Department of Finance, the Department of Justice, the Department of Health and Wellness, our human resources team, and Aboriginal Affairs. They are on the transition team to move that in. But that is generally something that just takes a bit of time, as you can well imagine, but it is happening.
The answer to your question is yes, but I wanted you to have the context around why it's taking a bit of time.
MR. CHURCHILL: And that's something I do appreciate. Do we have a timeline on when we can expect this transition to be complete?
MS. LANGLEY: Well, quite honestly, we were hoping to have it done by the end of the fiscal year. I don't know entirely if that's going to be possible but I wouldn't suggest that it would go on much longer than that. Certainly within the next six to eight months, we would hope to have the move complete.
MR. CHURCHILL: Are we expecting in the next fiscal year to have an increase in the budget to reflect that move?
MS. LANGLEY: I couldn't answer that question because the budget process, of course, is not yet quite underway and we don't have our budget directions.
MR. CHURCHILL: I'm sorry, in this fiscal year, was there an increase in the budget to reflect that move?
MS. LANGLEY: No, there wasn't. What we've done is we've reallocated some of our resources to put staff members on it. So that would be really the only change that might have a budgetary implication.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. MacMaster.
MR. ALLAN MACMASTER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My first question has to do with the archives and records management division. I think a number of years ago the department was looking at - because there have been a lot of things collected over the years and some are of provincial significance, others may be of more regional significance. I was meeting with a heritage group a couple of weeks back and they were asking me, what kind of support is available going forward for items of, say, more regional significance?
As I was trying to allude to, I think there was some thought about setting up a network of archives around the province that would look after items that may not be of provincial significance but are still important in the history of our province to each region. Of course, there are groups out there that are trying to build infrastructure to house these archive materials - like, climate-controlled rooms and whatnot. Can you offer some comment on that?
MS. LANGLEY: Yes, thank you for the question. We do work very closely with archives across the province. In fact, there is some programming available to help assist. Now, in terms of building infrastructure, that's a whole other category because you can imagine the expense involved in building the climate-controlled rooms and creating the kinds of conditions that would be needed.
I know that the Provincial Archives works very closely with those in their regions to make sure of exactly what you're talking about - that in the regions, specific records and historical documents can be protected. Our primary concern, of course, is material and documents of provincial significance but I think part of what we need to do is to have an outreach program and work with some of these regional areas, so that does exist.
Now, I'm not sure who you're speaking of and I'm not certain of the circumstances but if you were aware of any organization that had documents they felt weren't getting the support, please feel free to raise it with us, because we would not want to see any of those documents lost or not preserved because they didn't have the resources to do it.
MR. MACMASTER: Thank you very much and, Mr. Chairman, I have another question if that's all right.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure.
MR. MACMASTER: That's helpful and I know a gentleman - I think it's Paul Collins - who is always supportive. He's great to work with organizations, so I'll contact him for a little more on that one.
One of the other questions I had, I guess, was from a bigger-picture perspective. The FTE count for the department in 2010-11, the actual was 294, which is down from 317, which was the estimate. So it looks like there were 23 positions removed from the department, at least for the year. If we go back to 2009-10, the estimate for that year, it started with an estimate of 317, as well, and it was down to 306. In both cases the department started with an estimate quite a bit higher than the actual. Is this part of the government's goal to remove 1,000 FTEs by attrition?
MS. LANGLEY: Actually, no. That is really just part of the normal fluctuations or the ebbs and flows of people leaving, coming, going - postings and whatnot. Of course, this year you will notice a significant drop because we lost a whole division in Tourism, so 120-some-odd FTEs would have gone with Tourism. We would have brought in about 45 to 47 FTEs from some of the other entities that were brought in, so we're down around the 230 mark. But it's really just the regular ebb and flow of people coming and going. Of course, we have seasonal employees, as well, so our numbers tend to go up and down by times because while we carry the FTEs, perhaps it's a seasonal FTE or part of an FTE due to a seasonal employment position, so that's not part of any concerted effort. I hope that answers your question.
MR. MACMASTER: It does. Have there been any targets given to the department for reducing the FTE count?
MS. LANGLEY: No, we're looking at a flat FTE count this year, although I will share with the committee that as a result of the reorganization we do have four or five retirements over the next year and they are in areas that will enable us to re-profile their positions to help support some of the work in the new Communities division, for example. What we are able to do is re-profile our resources so that we can just be smarter with the resources we have. Now, of course, we haven't been given any direction to do anything other than that and if we are, we will deal with it at that time.
MR. MACMASTER: Thank you. I have a couple more, Mr. Chairman, but I think I'll share the floor.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Preyra.
MR. PREYRA: I'm happy to follow up on Mr. MacMaster's questions because I had a question in that direction as well. There is an overall government commitment to reducing the size of the bureaucracy and living within our means, and every department has been caught in that sort of general commitment. I wanted to ask you, I know certainly in most departments you have kind of a steady programming of large organizations and some programs seem to have gone on forever. I noticed that in the last year and a half or so, there has been some shifting in that, that some of the older organizations are not getting as much money as they used to but a lot of the newer organizations are getting money.
I'm wondering, given that we have this living within our means commitment, but you still want to re-profile as you've talked about the human resource side of it and reprogramming, what mechanisms are there in place within the department now to lead that reprogramming and re-profiling so that we can sort of cut and prune and come up with new programs and support new initiatives?
MS. LANGLEY: There are two parts to my answer to your question. The first one is basically around resources. I think what we are hoping and what we believe will happen is that through this new structure and with shared service, over time I think we will be able to realize efficiencies by sharing the services and bringing various functions together. The direction we've had to date is to look at attrition as a means to naturally streamlining over time, so that is what we've planned to do. That's one part of the question.
The other part in terms of how we assess and re-profile and evolve our programming - and I assume you're speaking about funding to organizations through arts, culture, heritage and various others. We work very closely with our external organizations for advice on what the needs are in the communities, what the needs are in the sector and how we should re-profile accordingly. For example, I described earlier the committee that is looking at what Arts Nova Scotia should be and what Arts Nova Scotia should look like. We have asked them for some advice on, do we have the programming right? Is this the kind of programming that helps support the community in the manner in which it needs to be supported at this time? Are we putting too much emphasis on one area of the sector and not another?
We really take our cues from what we're hearing in the community and we work very collaboratively with - and I think the arts community, as well as cultural industries and various others, on the heritage side as well. So that's another way of looking at it.
We are also, I think, going through a program review ourselves to look at areas where the government would want to emphasize and put its resources. I hope that answers your question. I would also like to say that in the assessment for funding that goes out to artists and cultural organizations - and I go back to that because that's where the bulk of our grant administration is - we mostly rely on peer review and peer panels to do that work and so we're taking our cues from people in the industry all the time. Should we find that one program or another just isn't being fully utilized, that's a cue to us that perhaps there is another area where that funding should be reallocated and so it's a constant work in progress, but those are a couple of ways that we do it.
MR. PREYRA: Thank you very much for that answer. I think, as you were implying earlier, the separation of Tourism from Communities, Culture and Heritage was not just an administrative statement. It was also a statement that things that are related to economic development, tourism, and external marketing and all that was something different from what the arts and cultural community was looking for. I think, by and large, it was met with a great sigh of relief in the arts community when that happened. Now, putting it in place is a big challenge because there is still a limited pool of money and there are a lot more groups competing for it - good luck with that challenge. I think certainly establishing an arm's-length agency in a way is saying if you think you can handle this problem a little better, good luck because the money is a limited pool.
I do have a different set of questions, if I may, Mr. Chairman, or I'll come back later.
MR. CHAIRMAN: What I'll do is, you just had about five minutes so I'll give the floor to Mr. Samson and then we'll come back to you after his five minutes or so is up. Mr. Samson.
HON. MICHEL SAMSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, deputy, for being here with your staff to tell us more about the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage. We are looking forward to finding out a bit more of exactly what this department does. As I mentioned to one of our staff this morning, I assume it's more than announcing that visiting turtle coming to the Museum of Natural History. It's good to hear that it isn't just about that turtle, that there is much more to this department.
I want to build a bit on the questions that were asked by Mr. d'Entremont and some of the confusion right now, which I'm sure exists not only in the Office of Acadian Affairs but would also exist in the Office of Gaelic Affairs, as well, and the Office of African Nova Scotian Affairs. I think I understood you said that the executive director reports to you directly as deputy.
MS. LANGLEY: Yes.
MR. SAMSON: Now part of the function with the Office of Acadian Affairs is they do administer some of the funding that comes from external sources and work with organizations here. Which minister signs off on those funding agreements that are put in place?
MS. LANGLEY: Minister Wilson is responsible for the budget of the Office of Acadian Affairs, but none of those agreements are struck or none of those recommendations go forward without the involvement of Minister Steele, so it's really a collaborative approach. It is one where the minister responsible for all of the administration of those divisions is the minister responsible for the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage, but the three ministers - Minister MacDonald, Minister Steele and Minister Paris - are still the ministers that would be most involved in making the decisions around the business in those divisions. I know it's very confusing and I appreciate that it is hard to understand exactly who signs on the dotted line, but the minister responsible for the budget is Minister Wilson. The minister who may strike those agreements, or we bring the advice around those agreements to Minister Steele.
MR. SAMSON: So if the executive director was looking to create a new position - for example, a new initiative - which minister would the executive director approach?
MS. LANGLEY: The process we have been using is that she would discuss that with Minister Steele. Minister Steele would agree or disagree. If it was going to move forward, it would then come to Minister Wilson for sign-off.
MR. SAMSON: You've been in government for awhile - in fact, going back to when I started, which seems longer and longer every day - have you ever seen that kind of a situation before, in your time in government, where it just doesn't seem to make any sense at all that you'd have a minister responsible for the administration of the budget yet another minister responsible for the actual department or office, I guess, in this case? Are there any other examples of where this is happening in government, other than in this department?
MS. LANGLEY: Not that I am aware. I have not seen this in the past. What we have been challenged to do is to have a collaborative model where we have four ministers, one administration. One of the ministers, because of the way it is set up in legislation, is responsible for the administration.
It is a unique circumstance. I don't know of another place where it occurs, although I do know there is latitude in the legislation and certainly in the Act for other ministers to be appointed and to be involved as champions - as ambassadors, if you will - for offices. I hope that answers your question.
MR. SAMSON: Well, look, I think you're trying to make sense of confusion so I don't fault you in that at all. It kind of leaves us wondering who is on first, it's that type of scenario. I'm almost thinking of the Minister of Health and Wellness talking about her collaborative care models, the centres that she's opening, it's a bit of the same thing.
I guess we're looking for who, at the end of the day, is accountable. I guess that's where there's some confusion here as to who is truly accountable for those very important offices, especially for the communities that they represent. Right now the community is left with a sense of confusion as to exactly what is the intention here and what is going on. I guess we'll certainly raise that with higher powers and don't expect you to be able to justify that.
One of the other questions that I wanted to touch on, as well, is that it is my understanding there was some sort of review that took place of the museum structure in Nova Scotia. I know that one of my local museums, LeNoir Forge in Arichat, has been looking for answers. I think there's some sort of a certification that goes on with these museums and there's a review of that taking place.
I'm wondering if you could tell us the purpose of that review, has it been completed; if so, what are the results of the review?
MS. LANGLEY: Yes, and thank you for the question. We have conducted a review of the Nova Scotia Museum system. The Nova Scotia Museum has 27 sites across the province and we have taken a good look at trying to update or evolve that network in a way that makes sense. That review happened through last Spring and the early summer. Right now what we've done is we've asked our team in Heritage to go back and make recommendations around how we can better manage and make better use of our resources to support that museum system. That's Part A of that. That's a work in progress but it should be complete by early in the new calendar year.
The other part of that is a review of the CMAP, our Community Museum Assistance Program. That program is used to fund 67, or I think now 68, community museums across Nova Scotia. What we are doing there is taking a second look at how that funding formula is used now. As it stands, we have a few too many museums and so you have to - the more museums that get certified and come on and there's only a finite level of funding - we are looking at how we approach that program. Some museums, for example, will continue to get some funding but some museums that get certified and come into the program, we have to take a look at how that program works so that we can share the funding around a little more broadly. I think that's what you would be referring to.
MR. SAMSON: As a final question, Mr. Chairman, I'm just curious, has the public been involved as part of these discussions, or this is an internal review that is taking place? I know in my situation, in my riding, the museum is left wondering what exactly is going on, will they be de-certified, will they be prevented from obtaining funding in the future. There seems to be a lot of unknowns here and I'm just curious, is there a better means of communicating how this is taking place, not only to the museums but certainly to Nova Scotians who have a vested interest in preserving the museums in our province?
MS. LANGLEY: Certainly your point is taken. We probably could go back to some of the community museums and give them a progress report on where we are. The Nova Scotia Museums study, which is the study of the museums that are actually owned by the province - that one is complete and there were extensive consultations done across the province for that one. The review of the Communities Museum Assistance Program is literally just underway in the last month or so and so we do have plans to involve community museums and get their input, of course, on what their needs and wants are. I think I'll make a note here for us to be a little more communicative on our progress to date and what we're planning to do, so thank you for the question.
MR. SAMSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. We'll now go back to Mr. Preyra, please.
MR. PREYRA: I do have a comment; the political scientist in me can't resist. There is a long history of central agencies that have been established, central coordinating agencies that bring together the works of various departments and ministers. I think the impetus for it was really breaking down some of the silos that existed in those various streams, both in terms of decision making but also in terms of pools of money that were all over the place that needed to be brought together. It was certainly the impetus in other places and that was the impetus here, that if you're going to have horizontal coordination, if you're going to have integration, if you're going to have rational, coherent decisions coming out of the government, then those decisions have to be harmonized in some way, so you do get a structure like that. It's not as clean as a silo and that's the reason why silos existed, but it's also not all that efficient or effective, so that's my comment on it.
I did have a question about the whole communities of interest, again, more of a philosophical question. How do you define "community" given that there are so many groups? Certainly in my constituency I have a very strong Pride community, for example, I have a Shambhala community, I have people with disabilities, and they all feel excluded and they all look to this department as a great step forward that will now facilitate inclusiveness in decision making and pay more attention. I know you personally have been involved a lot in that. How do you try to bring those groups in under the new mandate?
MS. LANGLEY: That's a very good question, I'm glad you raised it. I think communities really identify themselves and they tell us who they are. But for the purposes of how we will function and operate, that is a question we continue to look at. When we say communities of interest or communities of practice, we start with the communities that we engage with most at this time. For example, the arts community is a community of interest and a community of practice. There are cultural industries and that's a community, but then we have the African Nova Scotian community and the Acadian communities and so they're communities of a different nature.
We think that some of the thinking around it will start to coalesce, I think, when we take a look at multiculturalism and how we approach that, for example, how we look at the Diversity Round Table and the work of it, how we end up defining social inclusion so this is some of the work that is still underway. For example, our department champions in government the LGBTI network and we've recently taken on, as well, the opportunity or the privilege of being able to champion African Nova Scotian women working in the provincial government. These are all communities of interest, communities of practice that are starting to identify themselves to us, and really it is a challenge for us to be able to wrestle with how we will approach it. What will the definition be, where will the lines be, will there be lines?
So these are all of the things that I think are the most exciting parts of working on building this new department is this work and the extreme importance it can have for communities across the province. And then when you look at the geographic communities and the importance that the network can play in, I think, getting messages across the province and sharing across the province, it's another very exciting part of the work.
So I'm not sure if that answered your question, but I hope that it helps you to understand how we're thinking about it and the challenges we continue to face around establishing that unit. Some of it is very defined, but there are other elements that we know will present tremendous opportunities for government engagement and we're excited about that, but we're still working on it.
MR. PREYRA: Thank you very much. I did have a follow-up on that. It seems that certainly in the community here, in this area, there has been a great maturation of the traditional communities, like the Lebanese and the Greeks and the Italians and the Indo-Canadians; they've got very good organizations, they're well integrated. It seems almost that they're disengaging from the traditional multicultural community, as such; they're working more independently. I'm sure in a way that's an opportunity for the department, because there isn't as much of the care that goes into taking care of fledgling organizations. But it's also a challenge, I assume, in terms of keeping those organizations which anchor these other communities.
What's the relationship like between these more mature organizations - those are my words, I know you might not use them - and the newer ones and trying to reconcile them, for example, in a place like the Multicultural Association?
MS. LANGLEY: Well, I think to answer your question, it's a relationship that is evolving. So far Minister Wilson has had an open door and has met with countless organizations and individuals across the province, to hear their views on the various items that you've just raised.
There is not a very well-defined connect with some of the communities you've just mentioned but we have had some consultations with the Multicultural Association, for example, and we work with the Office of Immigration and various other organizations to make sure we're plugged in. I guess it will depend on the program areas that we're going to become engaged with and involved with. That will help define what our relationships are.
MR. PREYRA: Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. MacMaster.
MR. MACMASTER: I'll just ask one final question. With the move to the sort of separation of Tourism from Culture and Heritage, I presume there still must be some linkages so that if the province is doing marketing that might involve cultural content, it does consult the department to make sure that it's authentic, so that it's not going out there and marketing some kind of a stereotype or something that might not be appreciated by one of the many cultural communities in our province, would that be the case?
MS. LANGLEY: Well, we've been apart for only eight months, almost nine months, so we haven't had any formal exchanges. I would hope that through the interdepartmental committee that I mentioned a little earlier that some of those items would come up. We heard from our arts consultation, as a matter of fact, that the community would like to see a cultural tourism strategy. That is something I would hope we would be involved with heavily and, of course, partner with the Tourism Division on.
My answer to your question is, I would sure hope that would happen but we haven't had occasion to have that occur as yet, in the short time that we've been separated.
MR. MACMASTER: Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Seeing no other questioners - oh, Mr. Churchill.
MR. CHURCHILL: I have just a few more questions on the gaming strategy. Now, as far as I understand, there was supposed to be a deputy ministers' committee formed.
MS. LANGLEY: There is.
MR. CHURCHILL: Which departments are represented on that?
MS. LANGLEY: The departments on that committee - it's chaired by me. We have the Department of Health and Wellness at the table, Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, the Department of Finance, the Office of Aboriginal Affairs, the Department of Agriculture - and the Department of Labour and Advanced Education? No, that's it.
MR. CHURCHILL: That's only to deal with the gaming strategy?
MS. LANGLEY: That's right.
MR. CHURCHILL: That's a lot of departments. It reminds me of the days when I was a stakeholder and I'd go to government meetings and there would be 30 government staff people and three of us.
MS. LANGLEY: Well, I think each of the departments at the table has an interest in the business or has some involvement in the strategy, so that's the rationale for having those parties at the table.
MR. CHURCHILL: How often does that group meet?
MS. LANGLEY: We have met about every six to eight weeks since the strategy was announced, with the exception of in the summer. That committee is tasked with a number of things, but most importantly seeing that the elements of the gaming strategy are progressing or moving along.
MR. CHURCHILL: So that's going on right now?
MS. LANGLEY: Yes.
MR. CHURCHILL: Do we have set timelines or benchmarks for the continuing implementation of the gaming strategy?
MS. LANGLEY: There are no firm timelines, but certainly there is an interest in having things move as quickly as possible. For example, the transition of the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation, that is a priority right now. There are other things like taking a look at the policy question around VLT attrition, for example; things like that we're giving some attention to probably more quickly than maybe some other things.
MR. CHURCHILL: Thank you. Gambling Awareness Nova Scotia was a big part of the gaming strategy. How many people are responsible for that body?
MS. LANGLEY: That comes under the Department of Health and Wellness, and Gambling Awareness Nova Scotia is actually moving in to be part of the Health Research Foundation. I would not want to misrepresent or misspeak. The Deputy Minister of Health and Wellness is really overseeing that part of the transition and it is underway now.
MR. CHURCHILL: Is that completely funded by the Department of Health and Wellness, or is there a shared funding model for that?
MS. LANGLEY: I'd have to take a closer look. I'm not sure about that, I'm sorry. That's outside of my sphere.
MR. CHURCHILL: Thanks so much. I appreciate it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Ms. Raymond.
MS. MICHELE RAYMOND: Thank you very much. I just wanted to actually follow up a little bit on what Mr. Samson had been asking and just a little bit more detail about the review of the CMAP program. Certainly as a veteran on a number of the CMAP tours, I know it has been a carefully considered funding vehicle. I know there is some concern amongst the community museums as to exactly what the review may entail - you mentioned sort of a few too many museums and so on - when that review will be complete and whether, in fact, the CMAP funding will be administered by museologists or whether that is actually going to be administered by a more general creative arts or other arts council.
MS. LANGLEY: I don't see a change in who would make decisions around how the funding is disbursed or allocated for certain. I will say that because the review is just underway and because there is so much going on in this transition process and the department, I'd be afraid to put a firm deadline on it, except to say that we would certainly like to see it completed by the end of the fiscal year. If we were going to make any changes in the formula, I would think that people would need lots of notice - at least a year's notice - before they can make plans to either expand or make due.
I'm not suggesting that we would be taking money away from anybody; I'm suggesting that we have so many more museums coming on board. If we were going to make arguments or re-profile funding in the department to cover it off or whatever decisions were going to have to come out of that, we'd need to have a lot of time to do it.
MS. RAYMOND: When you say more museums coming on board, I know not all museums which are certified actually do end up receiving CMAP funding so you have a choice as to whether or not they do come into the program, don't you?
MS. LANGLEY: Well, yes and no, because there is a certification process and there are criteria. If a museum meets the criteria and has gone through the process, which is an arduous, lengthy process - it takes sometimes a year or two to go through the entire certification process. So if an organization goes through and meets the criteria, it is very difficult for us to say no. So that's part of what we have to look at: is there a certain scoring benchmark, for example, that museums will have to meet in certain review periods to maintain funding or - a better way of putting it - to stay in the program? So that's one where we really have some very careful questions to answer and we are putting together a small committee that will include people from the museum community to help answer those questions and to help guide us, I think, to be sure that we're asking the right questions.
MS. RAYMOND: The other question that I had actually, if I may, is about Atlantic Lottery. Now, once upon a time I was told - and I don't know if this has ever been clarified or not - that, in fact, the initial mandate of the Atlantic Lottery was to afford funding to cultural federations, as well as to sporting activities, and that there is a continued grant to the individual cultural federations, but that has not grown at all since the initial thing. I'm wondering whether there has been any look at increasing that funding since the initial mandate was to be both of those sectors.
MS. LANGLEY: We have had some conversations with our colleagues at the Nova Scotia Gaming Corporation about examining that question. I haven't been working in this arena for a tremendously long time, but I can say it is the case that funding has not increased, at least, in the last few years. Yes, we have been probing around at ways to do that. Now, whether we're successful or not is another question.
MS. RAYMOND: Okay, because I had asked for that to begin last year so I'm glad to know it's underway; it's not forgotten. Thanks a lot.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Seeing no other questioners, we will ask you to make a quick closing statement and we'll be done for the day.
MS. LANGLEY: I will be quick. On behalf of the department, I would just like to thank the committee for the invitation to come in this morning and for the opportunity to shed some light on what we've been doing at the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage since its announcement in January 2011. It has really been a pleasure to hear what your questions are and to answer them. It helps us bring back a few things that perhaps we need to put a little more attention on over the next number of months as we continue the restructuring process, the transition process, and certainly getting organized for the next year of our work.
I very much appreciate your time this morning and as always I'm happy to answer questions at any time. Should any of you have any musings about what we're doing and what we're up to, please don't hesitate to get in touch at any time; I'm more than happy to chat with you and answer questions that you might have.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. We just have a few minutes of committee business that we need to do. First, our next meeting is November 29th and that's just for ABCs, as is the custom when the House is sitting. The second thing is, we are mandated to meet in the month of December and what would usually happen is we would meet the last Tuesday in December, which would mean the day after Boxing Day. Can we ask if we could move our meeting ahead a little bit to maybe December 13th or 15th? I would propose that we just do ABCs. (Interruptions) So the 13th or the 15th, is there a preference? Whatever is available, we'll make that decision for the 13th or the 15th and we'll just do ABCs that day.
Thank you very much. The meeting is adjourned.
[The meeting adjourned at 10:09 a.m.]
