HANSARD
Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services
STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES
Mr. Keith Colwell (Chairman)
Hon. Carolyn Bolivar-Getson
Mr. Alfred MacLeod
Mr. Chuck Porter
Mr. Clarrie MacKinnon
Ms. Joan Massey
Mr. Charles Parker
Mr. Leo Glavine
Ms. Diana Whalen
In Attendance:
Mrs. Darlene Henry
Legislative Committee Clerk
Mr. Gordon Hebb
Chief Legislative Counsel
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HALIFAX, TUESDAY, AUGUST 22, 2006
STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES
9:00 A.M.
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Keith Colwell
MR. CHAIRMAN: I will call the meeting to order. Good morning everyone. We are going to start off with introductions so the sound people can make sure that everything is working. I will start with the minister first.
[The committee members introduced themselves.]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. The first matter of business we have this morning is the nomination of a vice-chairman.
MR. CLARRIE MACKINNON: I nominate Charlie Parker.
MS. JOAN MASSEY: I second the nomination.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any other nominations?
MR. ALFRED MACLEOD: I nominate Chuck Porter.
HON. CAROLYN BOLIVAR-GETSON: I second the nomination.
MR. CHAIRMAN: How do you want to do this? Do you want to have a secret ballot or a vote? What do you want to do?
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MR. MACLEOD: It doesn't matter to me, I know how I'm voting, no offence, Charlie. (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any other nominations?
MR. MACKINNON: I know how I'm voting.
MS. DIANA WHALEN: A show of hands.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, a show of hands will do.
Would all those in favour of Charles Parker as vice-chairman please raise your hand.
We have three members.
Would all those in favour of Chuck Porter for vice-chairman please raise your hand.
We have five members.
Chuck Porter, you are the vice-chairman. Congratulations.
Okay, the next thing we are going to do is nominate a subcommittee on advertising. Evidently there have been some difficulties getting enough people to apply for the different boards and agencies, so we would like to set up a subcommittee to look at different ways to advertise and promote people to put their names forward for the different boards and commissions. Probably one member from each caucus I think would be appropriate.
MS. MASSEY: I volunteer
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, Joan Massey.
MS. WHALEN: I will volunteer for our caucus.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, Diana Whalen. And who from the Progressive Conservative caucus?
MR. CHUCK PORTER: I will do it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: And Chuck Porter, and myself as chairman. Okay, that was easy.
We also have to set the fall and winter agenda for potential witnesses. Now as of the last election, all the potential witnesses we had lined up were eliminated, so if it is okay with the committee, we would like reinstate that group of witnesses, along with anyone else you might want to add to the list.
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The list left over from the last time was Lighthouse Divestiture and Nova Scotia Lighthouse Preservation Society; Nova Scotia Arts and Culture Partnership Council; Officials and Administrators of the Culture Division, Administrators for the Nova Scotia Museums Grant Program, re government support for local artists; Student Learning Assessments; Black Educators Association; Council on African Canadian Educators regarding the BLAC Report; Standardized Testing; Sydney Steel Pension Fund managers, re fund administration; and Labour Standards Tribunal.
Are there any that you want to eliminate from that or is everyone okay to continue with that list? That is not to set the priority with these at this moment but just leave them on or reinstate them on the list, in addition to anything else that you might have.
MR. MACKINNON: We have some additions . . .
MS. MASSEY: I am circulating a list of our new proposed witnesses.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, before you get into that, are the ones I just read off satisfactory to everybody? No complaints with any of those, is there?
MR. PARKER: They look alright.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Do we have agreement on that? Okay, it is agreed.
Ms. Massey.
MS. MASSEY: I would like to just note that I did circulate a list of our proposed witnesses, some new proposed witnesses that differ from the original list that we just approved to continue with.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, does the PC caucus also have a list?
MR. PORTER: Not printed. We can certainly bring it forward.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anything in common with the NDP list?
MR. PORTER: I am actually just looking at it right now.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, does the Liberal caucus have anything on the list?
MR. GLAVINE: Most are included here that we had put forth in our list.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, let's go down the NDP list.
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MR. GLAVINE: There is one, I have one that I want to bring forward. Did you want it?
MR. CHAIRMAN: I will ask you for it later.
MR. GLAVINE: Okay.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, let's start with the NDP list. Education; Bill C-48, funding drawdown for student debt relief. Is everyone in agreement to putting that on our list? Again, this is not setting priority, this is just putting it on the list. No complaints with that?
Education; P-12, teacher supply in Nova Scotia. Okay.
Education; Statistics and data management concerning P-12 education. How is that different than No. 2 and No. 3? Could that be in one . . .
MS. MASSEY: It is just being more specific. If you look at any of these, if you look at the old list, there are three items on there that have something to do with the education system and on our new, proposed list there are four items on there. So I guess that is a hard call, knowing exactly who to bring in from the department, but it is two different issues.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Glavine.
MR. GLAVINE: Yes, I was going to support that. I see No. 2 as talking about, you know, do we have enough teachers in specific subject areas, enough substitute teachers, teacher education, two years versus one year. I see a whole number of things around that so I would support both of these as separate entities.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Arts and Culture policy.
MR. PORTER: I missed it when you asked if there was any duplication, that is there.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, so that one is gone.
Labour; residential construction sector. Comments on that? Okay. Culture; Art Gallery of Nova Scotia. Okay, no comments on that.
Education; community access to schools.
MR. PARKER: It is an important one.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It is an important one. Okay, that is the NDP list. Now does the PC caucus have a list?
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MR. PORTER: The Nova Scotia School Book Bureau we had listed here.
MS. BOLIVAR-GETSON: That would be the Department of Education.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Could we get a copy of that?
MR. PORTER: Sure. Not this one but we will provide you with a copy.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, your first one again was?
MR. PORTER: The Nova Scotia School Book Bureau with regard to education again and it would come from the Department of Education.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any problems with that?
MS. WHALEN: Could he repeat it?
MR. PORTER: The Nova Scotia School Book Bureau, the Department of Education.
MR. WHALEN: That's fine, yes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, the next one.
MR. PORTER: Education; Evaluation Services Division. I am not sure that that is not already covered, actually.
MS. BOLIVAR-GETSON: I think that is part of the NDP one.
MR. PORTER: It is, yes. You also had a construction one that the NDP just put forward.
MS. BOLIVAR-GETSON: No, this is Dexter's Construction Training Institute for Workers. Did you get that, Mr. Chairman?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MS. BOLIVAR-GETSON: The Department of Education, and the Federation of Nova Scotia Home and School Associations.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any complaints with that one? Okay.
MS. BOLIVAR-GETSON: And under Heritage; Firefighters Museum of Nova Scotia, Barrington Woolen Mill, curator for that museum, and also the curator for the Hockey
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Heritage Museum. I don't know if this would be bringing them in together but there is the Firefighters' Museum of Nova Scotia and Ross Farm Museum, too.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, is that all of them from the PC caucus?
MS. BOLIVAR-GETSON: That's it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Glavine.
MR. LEO GLAVINE: Yes, the topic, review of inclusion, P-12.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, any others?
Ms. Whalen.
MS. WHALEN: Yes, I would like to put down French language training in P-12, immersion and core French.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, anything else? I'd like to add one, with the committee's indulgence. I would like to add the Black Cultural Centre.
MS. BOLIVAR-GETSON: Is that not on the list already?
MR. CHAIRMAN: No. Okay, is there anything else anyone would like to add later?
MR. GLAVINE: There are quite a number of topics here. I think many of them are obviously very relevant to the current time, with some having substantial issues around them; others that are carrying on perhaps from our work of the last couple of years. One of the things I think we need to discern here is whether or not some of these witnesses need to come in for almost a two-hour period. I think there are a number here that could certainly - you know 45 minutes to an hour with presentations and questions would be, I think, a strong enough presentation for those groups. I would like for us to categorize, if you wish, witnesses who would come for the two hours and some who would have a shorter period of time. I am certainly looking at some very specific topics here that I think one hour would do justice to their presentations.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any other comments on that?
Ms. Massey.
MS. MASSEY: Just maybe that we could combine some of them that have a lot of similarities. I think that is something that Darlene probably would be good at looking at the lists after today and seeing what similarities exist there. I mean the Heritage one,
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Firefighters' Museum, the Hockey Heritage curator, you know they might not each require the full meeting.
MR. CHAIRMAN: If that is agreed by the committee, Darlene could maybe contact the people as well and see who would like to make a longer or shorter presentation and bring that information back to the committee for consideration, if you would. Any other comments?
MS. MASSEY: Are we going to attempt at all to prioritize or wait until a future meeting; sort of mesh the list first and then prioritize?
MR. CHAIRMAN: I think probably what we should do is maybe set one for the next meeting and give Darlene time to go through this and see who needs a longer time and a shorter time and who is going to be available and then set our schedule at the next meeting, if that would be okay because it wouldn't take us long at that point once we have all the information. I think we should set one for the next meeting so we can get this underway and we don't delay. So if the committee is in agreement with that, I would entertain a suggestion of who we might bring in at the next meeting.
MS. MASSEY: Mr. Chairman, I would suggest Bill C-48, funding drawdown.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any comments on that?
MR. PORTER: Were there any from the list that we began with, from the last list, Mr. Chairman, that were notified or were aware that they were coming at some point, that we should maybe go to first?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Student Learning Assessments that was on there from before.
MR. PORTER: I would recommend that we maybe move forward with that, just where they were on the list originally and if they are waiting to present.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, why don't we vote on the first one then that was put forth by Ms. Massey, Bill C-48.
Would all those in favour of bringing that forward first please say Aye.
Four members.
Would all those in favour of Student Learning Assessments please say Aye.
Four members. I will support that one. So that is the one we will bring forward first.
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MR. PARKER: Can I ask, Mr. Chairman, what exactly is that? I am not clear on what student learning assessments is. I wasn't on the previous committee, I am not too sure what it was. (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: We will have to get you some information on that.
MR. PARKER: Does it concern P-12, or is it university or is it something different, I wonder?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Glavine.
MR. GLAVINE: I know we have voted now but I thought with the start of the university year, the topic brought forward by Ms. Massey was timely and appropriate and that is why I voted for that one.
Student learning assessments is certainly not really critical in relation to the start of the school year. This is both a provincial and a board issue. There are school boards that are doing their own assessments. We have, for example, in the Cumberland-Colchester Board, a Grade 10 standardized math test. That is the kind of issue that will come up there.
The Halifax Regional School Board has instituted assessments at, I think, Grade 3 and Grade 6 to determine, again, math and literacy. Then there are the provincial assessments that go on. So I think it is a great topic. I am not sure of its connection and relevance, perhaps, for this committee starting out in the school year, especially when some of these people could be very tight and too busy to appear in September. That is their real crunch month of the year. I just wonder even about availability of some of the people that could best present here. I think we want a wider presentation group than I think just the Department of Education here.
MR. MACKINNON: Mr. Chairman, we are all familiar with Bill C-48 and the ramifications involved here with debt relief for students. It seems that the student learning assessment, even the people who voted for it were not exactly sure about the ramifications of it. So I would hope that we could possibly reconsider that vote. I don't know if that is a norm or not.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, why don't we see if we can get in the wide range of people that Mr. Glavine suggested for September. Maybe they are not available and if they are not, we will move to Bill C-48. We'll find out that information very quickly. Then we will leave Bill C-48 as the first one if we can't get the proper people in for assessment and anyone who has an idea who they think might do, let Darlene know so she can contact them right away and make sure we can do that. Within the week we will make a decision on that and let the committee know, so you are prepared for what is coming. Would that be satisfactory?
MR. PARKER: Sounds fair.
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MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MS. WHALEN: Just one question, if I could, Mr. Chairman, that is on the issue of Bill C-48; would it only be people from the Department of Finance or would we be able to speak to, for example, the student aid office, the director and so on, from the Department of Education?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Anyone you want.
MS. WHALEN: I am just wondering about broadening the people here because if we get into a discussion around student aid, it will undoubtedly go beyond Finance and they won't have the capacity to answer beyond a narrow range.
MR. PARKER: That makes sense.
MS. WHALEN: I think that certainly we should at least go to the Department of Education to their student aid office and maybe we want to go broader.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Maybe put those recommendations in to Darlene, anyone that you want to see, because we are having these and we might as well have a complete discussion rather than leave somebody out and have to have another meeting on it.
MR. MACKINNON: Mr. Chairman, I like the idea of going broader on this issue as well. Certainly I think if we are discussing student debt relief that there should be representation from the student area as well.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Sounds like an excellent idea so just put those suggestions to Darlene, the witnesses you would like to see or the organizations represented. Ms. Massey.
MS. MASSEY: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, at the beginning of the meeting I should have brought this up but I am just wondering if there is a place on the agenda where I could ask a question about one of the committees that has been struck. I was just looking for an update from that committee.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure, I will add that to the agenda once we are done this discussion.
MS. MASSEY: Thank you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, so we are agreed that if we can get the people of student learning assessments, if we can get the people in September. If not, we will go to Bill C-48 and again, in both instances, if you could forward any suggestions of witnesses you want in that regard, please do so to Darlene as quickly as possible and we will have a decision back to you on availability of witnesses, within a week. Okay?
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Now before we go to the one appointment we have today, Ms. Massey, you had a question.
MS. MASSEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was just wondering if it would be possible to get - I don't require it this morning - an update on what is happening with, I believe it is called the Children and Family Services Act Committee that was struck. If you recall, we had some of those members that are still on the committee or were on the committee. That was a committee that had not been in existence for a fair amount of time and we pushed to have that committee struck again and have it filled with committee members. I am just wondering if, indeed, they have met, how many times they have met and if we can get an update on what that committee has been doing, if they are coming up with any recommendations to government, this sort of thing. I don't know if that is something we can do.
MR. CHAIRMAN: With the concurrence of the committee, I can, as Chair, write a letter and request that information, if there is concurrence from the committee. Does everyone agree with that?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, we will do a letter up and I will send a copy of the letter to everybody and once we get the reply, I will bring it back to the committee. Thank you.
If there is nothing else, then . . .
MR. MACLEOD: Could we also have a list of the people who are involved in that committee?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we can get that.
MS. WHALEN: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. If we are getting the names of those committee members it would be good to know what category they are filling because that was a kind of complex committee which had about - I don't remember, 10 people perhaps, but there were to be a couple that represented parents, a couple that represent legal, this kind of thing, so there were specific categories. It would be more clear to the members of our committee.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Anything else you would like in that request? Okay.
So we have a big list of appointments to make here today, our one.
MS. WHALEN: The smallest one I have seen yet.
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MR. CHAIRMAN: So who would like to move the appointment? The first one is for the Department of Agriculture, Veterinary Medical Association Council of Nova Scotia, Glenis Sullivan as a member.
MR. MACLEOD: I so move, Mr. Chairman.
MS. WHALEN: I second that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Any discussion?
MR. PARKER: Can I ask, Mr. Chairman, where this applicant is from, what part of the province?
MR. CHAIRMAN: It is given in the resumé as Sackville, I believe. (Interruptions) Yes, Lower Sackville. Any other questions?
MR. PARKER: Secondly I will just ask, is it unusual to have just one applicant for a position?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Sort of unusual.
MR. PARKER: Yes, it just seems - I see where it was advertised and there was only one application.
MR. MACLEOD: That goes back to why they had to strike the committee about advertising.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, so there are no other questions?
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
We can send our total thing back successfully I guess today.
Our next scheduled meeting is September 26th. Are there any difficulties with that?
MR. PARKER: Mr. Chairman, I don't have my Daytimer here, but I think our caucus has a meeting scheduled on that day, or starting that day? It is Tuesday, September 26th, is it?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, Tuesday is September 26th.
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MR. PARKER: We have a meeting in Cape Breton or somewhere. I think it starts on the Tuesday. (Interruptions) We will be down to visit you. I am pretty sure that is the day we are starting our meeting.
MR. GLAVINE: I would make the motion that we have it on September 19th for that particular month.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, any comments on that?
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
September 19th will be our next meeting.
Is there anything else you would like discussed today?
If not, we will stand adjourned.
[ The committee adjourned at 9:29 a.m.]
