HALIFAX, WEDNESDAY, APRIL 7, 2021

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON SUPPLY

5:16 P.M.

CHAIR

Keith Bain

THE CHAIR: Order please. The Subcommittee on Supply is called to order. Today we will be debating resolution E4.

Resolution E4 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $1,591,394,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, pursuant to the Estimate.

We’ll turn it over to the minister. You have one hour for opening remarks.

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I want to thank all my colleagues for being with me tonight to go through the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development’s estimates. It is an honour to be the new minister of the department. I look forward to the discussion and the questions that we are going to engage in this evening, to start.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. Like many Nova Scotians, I have personal connections to our education system, but as the new Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development, it has been my pleasure to have a more in-depth opportunity to learn about the work being done by this department and across our system. Nova Scotians have a lot to be proud of in our education system, and I am pleased to have this opportunity today to discuss my department’s budget and key priorities for 2021-22.

Before I begin, I would like to introduce those joining me today. You may not see them on screen, but they are here. Karen Gatien is the Associate Deputy Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. David Potter is our executive director of financial services. Karen and David will assist me today in answering your questions.

I also want to recognize many of the other folks who are involved with establishing our budget here in the department and the work that they do every day to support the entire system, ultimately supporting our students. It has been an honour to work with them over the last month. I can’t thank them enough for the support that they have shown to me as I became the new minister, and the work that they do every day.

I’ll start off with COVID‑19 and our back-to-school plan. I don’t think I can begin talking about this budget and our plan for the fiscal year ahead without acknowledging where we’ve come from. Last year was tremendously challenging for everyone, and the education sector was no different. Within this challenging environment came a lot of hard work by a lot of dedicated people. Mountains were moved. Long-held traditions and ways of doing things were interrupted. As a system, we moved forward together and have kept everyone safe.

When Nova Scotia students, teachers, administrators, and support staff went on March Break last year, I don’t think anyone understood that they wouldn’t be coming back to class until September, but that’s the situation we faced. While school looked a lot different, everyone stepped up to ensure our students had the support they needed to learn from home for the final portion of their year.

Something that was clearly illustrated during the COVID‑19 lockdown was the importance of supports students receive in the education system that benefit their overall well-being. The pandemic reinforced the importance of in-person school for students’ emotional, physical, intellectual, and social development. Learning from home, while necessary for the physical safety of everyone, had different impacts for different students.

Experts told us, and we agree, that the best place for children is in the classroom. On that basis, we worked to put a plan in place that would ensure the safety of everyone in our schools during this pandemic.

For our pre-Primary to Grade 12 system, the province’s back-to-school plan has provided a layered approach to COVID‑19 safety in schools. This plan, which we developed in consultation with the Nova Scotia Teachers Union, the Public School Administrators Association of Nova Scotia, Public Health, the IWK Health Centre, and our educational support unions, was informed by input from more than 28,000 parents and students. I won’t go over all the details of this plan, but as much as possible, we wanted to retain the experiences that make school special for our students, teachers, staff, and specialists, and be as safe as possible for everyone.

In developing this plan, we knew our knowledge of COVID‑19 would evolve as the pandemic evolves. That’s why our plan has been updated as our colleagues in Public Health have updated their guidance. Not everything has looked the same, and some of our favourite activities have been interrupted, but by all measures, Nova Scotia has had a successful and safe school year so far. Most importantly, and what contrasts Nova Scotia with many jurisdictions is that for the most part, our students have been learning in-class since the start of the school year. Thank you to our teachers, students, staff, families, and all those people who have helped to ensure a successful school year in Nova Scotia.

This budget contains the investments needed to maintain Public Health measures. As we enter the final months of the school year, I am confident that we will finish the year strong.

The Department of Education and Early Childhood Development is responsible for the development and education of our young people from birth to high school graduation. We want our schools to be welcoming, inclusive places that celebrate all abilities and support the well-being and achievement of every student. I am pleased that Budget 2021-22 builds on the department’s work of ensuring our children receive the education and support they need, particularly during this challenging time.

The 2021-22 budget for the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development is $1.5 billion. This represents an increased investment over last year of $112.1 million, or 7.6 per cent in the future of our children. Since 2013-14, the department’s budget has increased by $485.7 million, or 43 per cent, representing some of the largest funding increases to our education system in living memory. My department’s budget reflects our commitment and investments in our early years and public education systems, investments that make a real difference in the lives of children, students, and their families.

I would like to start by speaking about our early learning and child care sector. In 2014, after 20 years of little or no investment by successive governments, Nova Scotia embarked on a journey to create the highest-quality, most accessible and affordable early learning and child care system in the country. Every decision we have made since 2013 has been made with that goal in mind. The work of everyone in our early learning and child care sector is vitally important. They are helping to prepare and shape our future generations while enabling prosperity for today’s families. We value their work and commitment, which is why we continue to support those who want to pursue a career in early childhood education.

When we started this work, early childhood educators (ECEs) told us that they are among the lowest-paid in the country and wanted more training opportunities. Child care operators told us they wanted more flexibility in how they spent government dollars. Families told us that child care was too expensive, the cost was unpredictable and rising each year, and that child care was not always available in their home communities.

We set out to change that. We introduced a wage floor that would ensure ECEs were paid more money and were no longer the lowest-paid in Canada. Pay for ECEs in Nova Scotia now ranks in the middle, nationally. We created more opportunities for ECEs to complete additional training, including those from African Nova Scotian and Indigenous communities. With more training comes higher-quality care for our children and higher wages for ECEs.

We allowed child care operators to use the money government gave them to best suit their business needs, all to ensure long-term sustainability. We limited the increases that child care centres could charge families, so that families could manage their child care bills with greater certainty.

Our Child Care Subsidy program continues to provide more support to eligible families who need help with their bills. Currently, the subsidy program supports over 4,000 families in Nova Scotia. We know that in Nova Scotia not all families live in Halifax, Truro, or Sydney, so we created child care spaces in communities that needed more. We introduced the universal pre-Primary program so that every four-year-old in the province has access to a high-quality early learning program.

The provincial rollout of pre-Primary is now complete, and this year the program welcomed more than 6,000 children. Since its inception, more than 14,500 Nova Scotia children have benefited from pre-Primary. Access to four-year-olds has increased from only one in four children accessing child care to 100 per cent of Nova Scotia’s four-year-olds having access to this important early support.

The research is clear that having early learning in schools helps with transitions for children. They become more comfortable in a school setting, and they know the teachers and administrators when they arrive in Grade Primary. After having a year of pre-Primary, they arrive ready and eager to learn in Primary.

We did all this to create the highest-quality, most affordable and accessible early learning and child care system in the country. What are the benefits for these investments? They have created, for the first time ever, opportunities for women and families to return to the workforce because they had a safe place to put their children. It has created more than 900 new ECE jobs across Nova Scotia in pre-Primary. It supports the employment of over 2,500 ECEs working in regulated child care across the province.

While we created free early learning spaces for four-year-olds to increase access for families, we also created about 2,000 new spaces in child care, with half of those spaces in communities with little or no access to care. This also increased access for families. This is good news for the economy and for the workforce, and we are not done.

As I said when I began my remarks, last year was unlike any other. On the very first day when it was announced that schools and centres had to close, we reassured families that they wouldn’t have to pick between a mortgage payment and a daycare bill at a time when they couldn’t access care. We reassured early childhood educators by telling them we needed them to stay well and in the sector. When was is safe to open, we needed them to return to child care, and that is why we paid their entire wages during the closure. We reassured child care operators. We told them we need to be able to open back up when it is safe to do so, and that is why we helped them with costs like heat, rent, and electricity. I am pleased to say that when it was safe to open child care, 98 per cent of all centres chose to reopen, ECEs returned to child care, and families who needed child care at the time came back.

Before COVID-19, approximately 86 per cent of all available child care spaces in the province were occupied. While we are still in a global pandemic, at this time, about 76 per cent of all child care spaces are being utilized.

Nova Scotia also offers other supports to the sector, including to those operators who may need help. This could include reviews of their funding and budgets to help with recruitment and retention. Our bottom line is that if an operator is struggling, we are there to help. We also meet regularly with representatives from the sector, which ensures an open line of dialogue and allows for discussion about concerns or opportunities.

[5:30 p.m.]

It is no surprise that things are returning to pre-COVID-19 levels in child care, giving Nova Scotia a strong economic recovery. We did this to create the highest quality, most affordable and accessible early learning and child care system in the country. Despite all the good work that has been completed, we aren’t done, and I am excited about the future.

We are on the cusp of a pan-Canadian universal child care system. Nova Scotia has met with the Government of Canada several times since they announced their intention to create a universal system to tell them we believe in a universal system, we want to be partners, and we want to bring universality to Nova Scotia. We want it, our families need it, and we are ready to work with our partners to make it happen. Nova Scotians can be sure that their government will continue to negotiate hard and fiercely to make sure we have access to federal dollars to support the creation of a universal system. We need their support to make this happen.

A universal system will, without a doubt, help us reach our goal, a journey we started in 2013 to create the highest quality, most affordable and accessible early learning and child care system in Canada. Research shows that $1 dollar invested in early childhood education yields $6 in economic benefits over the lifetime of a child. By creating this opportunity for children, we know that we create opportunities for stronger, more vibrant communities.

My department’s 2021-22 budget invests a total of $132.6 million in our early learning and child care sector, including $54 million for pre-Primary and $75 million in the child care sector.

Nova Scotia’s 370 schools, almost 9,000 teachers, and over 5,000 administrators and support staff welcome more than 121,000 students every day, from pre-Primary to Grade 12. To ensure our students have quality learning experiences, we have funded 1,041 new teaching positions and 717 non-teaching student support positions since 2013-2014.

As I said earlier in my remarks, we want our schools to be welcoming and inclusive places for everyone. Our students have a variety of backgrounds and experiences. They come from different socio-economic, cultural, religious, and family backgrounds, and these varied perspectives enrich our school communities. As varied as our students’ experiences are, so too are their needs. Our goal has been to put more resources where they are needed to improve the learning experiences for all students and the teaching conditions for our educators.

In the past three years, we have invested an unprecedented 45 million new dollars in the system to add over 620 additional teachers, education workers, and specialists in our classrooms and school communities. These people, like autism specialists, guidance counsellors, African Nova Scotian and Mi’kmaw student support workers, behavioural support specialists, child and youth care practitioners, and education assistants have already helped thousands of children and their families. I am pleased to say that this budget invests an additional $15 million to continue implementing the recommendations of the Commission on Inclusive Education and create a more inclusive education system for all students, bringing the total investment to $60 million.

With this funding, several hundred more inclusive education positions will be created. We are proud of our transformative work to make our system inclusive for all, and we remain strongly committed to our five-year plan, raising the bar, and closing the achievement gap for students.

In September 2020, we implemented a new inclusive education policy. The policy’s objective is to ensure that every student has access to an adequate and high-quality education that is culturally and linguistically responsive, accepting, and respectful in supporting and valuing their learning and diverse abilities.

I’d like to take a few minutes to highlight some of the incredible work that has been done on inclusive education in our province. My department and leaders in the education system are committed to narrowing the gap and improving outcomes for African Nova Scotian, Mi’kmaw, and other Indigenous learners. We have worked with regional centres for education and the Conseil scolaire acadien provincial to support and implement training in what is called culturally responsive pedagogy. This training results in teaching that connects students’ social, cultural, family, or language background to what the student is learning.

We also plan to introduce a new anti-racism and anti-discrimination leadership module this school year that will ensure principals, vice-principals, and other leaders in the education system are empowered with the knowledge, skills, and competence they need to take up their professional responsibility and appropriately identify, respond, and eliminate racism and discrimination. This module design has been built on First Voice consultation with over 500 students, parents, and education professionals.

There are 7,796 students in our education system who self-identify as being of African ancestry. Inclusive education compels us to address the known opportunity gap that exists for these students. To close this gap and improve outcomes for African Nova Scotian and Black learners, we have developed the African Nova Scotian Education Framework. This framework identifies the knowledge, practices, and processes that ensure Black learners feel accepted, safe, and valued so that they can best learn and succeed.

We have also prioritized the wellness of African Nova Scotian students. Regional coordinators of African Nova Scotian education have been hired in seven of our eight regional centres for education and Conseil scolaire acadien provincial to lead the discussions on academic achievement, wellness, and parent/guardian empowerment for Black students. We are also increasing authentic learning resources that explore African Nova Scotian and African Canadian experience as part of our shared history, as well as the Mi’kmaw knowledge system, which weaves Mi’kmaw and other Indigenous experiences into the fabric of learning. This approach helps students and teachers understand the importance of relationships and why Nova Scotia has evolved into the prosperous province we are today. As we celebrate, we are all treaty people.

There are 6,834 self-identified students of Mi’kmaw and Indigenous ancestry in our education system. This is an opportunity gap with respect to how students of Indigenous heritage perform compared to their peers in both literacy and mathematics. I am pleased to say that recently there has been a notable narrowing of the gap in Grade 6 reading, writing, and mathematics, but our efforts continue to improve outcomes for Mi’kmaw and Indigenous learners.

These efforts include Treaty Education, for which a curriculum development framework has been created in partnership with Mi’kmaw and other provincial departments. We continue to increase access to Treaty Education resources, with the goal of growing in understanding among all students of Mi’kmaw teachings and culture. This also helps Mi’kmaw and other Indigenous students gain a strong sense of identity, pride, and belonging in the public education system.

We have also recently developed a Mi’kmaw education model to address the systemic power structures and inequities that create barriers for Mi’kmaw and other Indigenous students. This model will provide system leadership to support the well-being and academic success of Mi’kmaw and other Indigenous learners. Mi’kmaw education coordinators have been hired in all regional centres for education and Conseil scolaire acadien provincial to lead discussions on decision‑making, achievement, well-being, parent/guardian empowerment, and community engagement.

My department is also supporting our 2SLGBTQ+ learners, including partnering with a youth project to deliver programs, training, and workshops for youth, teachers, and staff. This builds on previous initiatives, including provincial guidelines to support transgender and gender-nonconforming students, and modifications to PowerSchool so that the preferred name of the student appears on all school documents and that their preferred pronoun is honoured, and changing practices so that a gender marker of X is available through PowerSchool.

We also continue to improve supports for students with diverse learning needs. One is called MTSS, a multi-tiered system of support, which is an approach being used in schools across the province. We work to provide students with the right support at the right time at the right intensity. This includes ensuring the classroom meets the broadest range of needs and can move into more specialized or individualized supports for a particular student or group of students if that is required.

We are also working to put additional specialists and supports in place for students who need help with self-regulation, and to strengthen social and emotional learning resources for teachers and students. We continue to increase our capacity to effectively support students with multiple or complex learning challenges through the addition of a range of supports, including board-certified behavioural analysts. This includes the provision of intense support for students with autism spectrum disorder. These are just a few examples of the work happening to make our education system more inclusive.

A key part of our work to make the system more inclusive is to have our Inclusive Education Policy evaluated by outside experts. Researchers Andy - I apologize if I get the pronunciation of the name wrong - Hargreaves and Jessica Whitley are from the University of Ottawa and have been engaged to provide a three-year rolling evaluation of the policy’s implementation. This approach allows government to course-correct, based on ongoing input from the researchers. Their report will help us gain a deeper understanding of what is working and what may need to be adjusted to better support students. I look forward to sharing their evaluation of our first year soon.

Now I’d like to talk about our capital plan. Right now, despite a global pandemic, Nova Scotia is thriving. We have families choosing to live, work, and play in our province, resulting in unprecedented population growth. In February, my predecessor updated the Nova Scotia School Capital Plan. This plan allows us to manage this growth, modernize our schools, and create new opportunities for students in areas like technology and the environment as we design new modern learning spaces.

Through this plan, 13 new schools are being built. Four more are receiving major additions or renovations, and the final four P3 schools are being purchased. Some highlights include:

·         A new pre-Primary to Grade 8 elementary, and a new Grades 9 to 12 school in Bedford. These schools will be co-located to maximize outdoor space and some efficiencies, like heating;

·         Adjusting the size of the new J.L. Ilsley High School in Spryfield to accommodate population growth and a new grade configuration;

·         A second gym and theatre for the new Breton Education Centre in New Waterford;

·         New classrooms and education space for École acadienne de Pomquet, which is part of a larger project with the federal government that includes a new community centre.

Nova Scotia began releasing a rolling five-year capital plan in 2018, which provides a predictable, long-term outlook for school construction and major renovations addressing the recommendations from the Auditor General. This capital plan is focused on building a strong and modern public education system from the ground up that meets the needs of students.

This is an exciting and challenging time for the education system. Throughout this pandemic, we have seen everyone rise to the occasion. We have developed new ways of doing things. We have adapted our schools and child care centres to ensure they are safe, while protecting the integrity of the vital services they provide.

I am proud to be Nova Scotia’s Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. I am proud of the thousands of people who work across the system every day with one single goal in mind: to ensure our province’s children and youth have the support they need to develop and grow.

In closing, I want to thank every child, student, parent and guardian, teacher, educator, principal, administrator, early childhood educator, and anyone else who puts their best effort forward every day to make our education system as good as it is and better. Our work is never over. We always strive to improve education in this province. Nova Scotia has made great gains and our future is bright. There’s more work to be done, but together we can create the best possible start for Nova Scotians, so that they can have the best possible future. That concludes my opening remarks.

[5:45 p.m.]

THE CHAIR: We’ll turn things over now to the PC caucus. The honourable member for Dartmouth East. You have one hour.

TIM HALMAN: If I could only get one hour at Public Accounts.

Minister, thank you so much for your opening remarks. I want you to know how much I appreciate them. I have no doubt for a moment your sincerity in taking on this wonderful challenge to be the province’s Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development. It is a very, very important responsibility, and I know that you feel that.

I want you to know I certainly appreciate your acknowledgement that children need to be in school. I know that on a parental level, I know you know that on a parental level, and certainly from an educational point of view, for a kid’s development, that’s where they need to be.

Funny enough, just today in my Facebook memories, it popped up that my girlfriend and I were doing the at-home learning this time last year, getting the kids to do different presentations. Boy, we have a sense of gratitude, knowing our kids are in school. Sending them off to school this morning, we certainly had a sense of gratitude, specifically with what’s happening in the rest of the country.

I certainly appreciate your opening remarks. I want to thank you and the staff at the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development for their ongoing work that they do to support our students, families, and our communities.

Certainly, I was listening attentively to your opening remarks related to inclusive education, early learning. I certainly have a million questions here for the minister, but I do want to start off with something that was indicated in the minister’s opening remarks with respect to Professors Whitley and Hargreaves. Inclusive education and its ongoing strengthening of that model is something that I’m very passionate about, so could the minister be more specific as to the timeline when we can expect that report from Professors
Whitley and Hargreaves?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I really appreciate the conversations that we’ve had since I’ve taken on the role as minister. I appreciate you coming to the department. I hope that we can continue to do that and have those conversations. I have a lot of respect because you are an educator first and foremost. We all had jobs before we became politicians, but I respect the fact that you come from the sector and that you bring a lot of knowledge and a lot of experience, not only as an educator but with your interactions with students and staff on a daily basis.

I want to start off by saying that to the member. I hope we can continue to keep the open dialogue to ensure that as stuff arises, I want your feedback on policy that we’re going to be developing. There are some things that I want to look at while I have the honour of being minister of this department that I think we can do together to support kids.

Particularly on the report, we actually have the report now. We’re just kind of going through the report now, so I don’t have a specific date on it, but we do have it. We’re going through it. Staff is going through it, and then I’ll be talking a bit more about it in the future, I think.

What I want to reiterate as part of that question is that there is $15 million more going into this budget, which brings us to $60 million to support inclusive education. What that represents, when it comes to a staffing perspective, you’re looking at over 250 more positions this year. That will cover a broad range of supports for students. This has been a commitment that we have been passionate about as a government, that we knew needed to happen, and one that I personally see every day, how dedicated these teachers, these educators are to these students. My wife is one of those teachers who takes great pride in the fact that she is learning to be a teacher at home. I see the dedication that she and her staff put into ensuring these students have all the supports that they need, that they feel as welcome as possible, that they feel part of the school system, and that their families are engaged as well. To finish off your first question, the report’s back and we’re going through it now. I’m excited about the investments that we are making again this year to keep it going.

TIM HALMAN: When will that report be released to Nova Scotians?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Just to reiterate, we have the report, we’re going through it, and we’re going to release it as quickly as we can to Nova Scotians. I just don’t have the specific date yet. We have the report, and we need to go through it. You’ll hear me talk more about it in the near future.

TIM HALMAN: Could you provide us the CliffsNotes or the Coles Notes of the content or the scope of the analysis of our inclusive education system? What were the top three or four key variables that were analyzed in our inclusive education system?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Our response to the report is coming very soon. There are a number of aspects that I’ll talk about when I actually release it. I think it’s important to recognize that this was one piece that we were working on with the team. Again, I want to reiterate, when we make investments in the system, which we’ve had over the last four years - $60 million - we’re basing a lot of that on the feedback that we’re hearing from our educators across the province. That’s why you’re seeing the additional supports to support African Nova Scotian communities and our Mi’kmaw and Indigenous students. These are important investments. Specific to that report, it’s coming out. We need to do our due diligence to go through it before we release it, but it will be released in the near future.

TIM HALMAN: Can the minister comment or confirm to what degree in that report differentiated instruction was looked at and how much that’s being practised by our teachers in Nova Scotia?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: What I’ll say at this point is that it’s part of the multi-tiered approach to the system. Again, this report will be released in very short order, so I’m going to reserve my comments specifically to the report until I give staff the ability to do their job, to go through the report, and then we’ll release it to Nova Scotians when they’re ready. It’s going to happen very soon.

TIM HALMAN: So it’s correct to say that you’re not prepared to commit to a date, a general timeline as to when this report will be made public to Nova Scotians? Is that correct?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: What I am committing to today is that we’re going to release the report in short order. I’m going to allow our wonderful staff here in the department to do their work with our partners. What we’re committing as a government is another $15 million towards inclusive education. Again, based on the feedback that we’re receiving in the system, another 250 positions will be added to the system this year to support students across the province. That’s really the big commitment from government.

That report is coming. It’s important for us, but we have to let staff do their job before I’m going to go into details. We will release it to the public and I’m sure we’ll have a wholesome conversation about what our report says.

TIM HALMAN: I’d like to switch gears a little bit to the minister with respect to school staffing, specifically within the largest regional centre for education here in Nova Scotia, the Halifax Regional Centre for Education (HRCE). Over the past few days, I’ve heard a number of concerns from our teachers and administrators with respect to how staffing is being allocated. There are a couple of questions I have regarding that within the HRCE.

My first question is: Can the minister confirm, are Grades 9 and 10 being desemestered in Grade 9 and Grade 10?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We’re still in the process of staffing. I’ve had this conversation with the union president, yesterday actually. No decisions have been made at this point. At this point every year, we go through staffing based on enrolment, so that’s actually happening with the union right now, based on some of the new additions to the collective agreement. Right now, no decisions have been made, but we’re going through what we go through annually, which is looking at our enrolment projections and what staffing allocations are needed.

TIM HALMAN: Absolutely. I want the minister to know I appreciate that. I’ve been through that process many times as a teacher and as an acting vice-principal. The process of staffing is certainly a logistics roller coaster - an emotional roller coaster, often, for some of our newest teachers. Certainly, this year we all have acknowledged just how challenging it’s been for our educators, for our administrators, and our support staff.

Can the minister confirm: Is it true that our high school teachers will now teach seven classes per year instead of the six out of eight in our semestered system?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I think one of the most important aspects of your question is that under the new collective agreement that was ratified with the union, there’s a 12.5 percentage now when it comes to marking and prep time. That’s an increase that was negotiated with the union under the new agreement. We’re in the process of determining what that’s going to look like to ensure that that new prep time is implemented into it, so that work is ongoing.

[6:00 p.m.]

TIM HALMAN: If I have understood correctly, the work is ongoing, and no decisions have been made as to teachers teaching seven classes per year rather than six. Is it correct to say no decision has been made on that yet?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Yes, there has been no decision made right now. We’re going through a process with staffing. One of the big changes was the ratification of the new contract work. It upped the prep and marking time to 12.5 per cent. We have to respect that. The union asked for that, and it was negotiated and agreed upon. Now we go through the process to implement that 12.5 per cent. There has been no decision at this point on how many courses teachers will be teaching.

TIM HALMAN: Certainly, I want the minister to be aware that, in this community that I represent and the communities surrounding Dartmouth, there’s a lot of concern. I’m hearing that principals may already be telling some of their staff members to expect a reduction of four to eight teachers depending on the high school they’re at.

I want the minister to know, as a former teacher, knowing the grind of high school - I could take you to my basement and show you binders upon binders of lesson plans that take hours and hours to develop. If you take away those positions - I want the minister to be aware just how consequential that is for schools and communities.

Obviously, I’m understanding that no decision has been made, yet what I’m understanding is transpiring on the ground here in metro in our high schools is that there’s a lot of concern. The sooner the minister and the department can clarify what is going on, the better. Certainly, we recognize just how challenging this year has been on our staff and obviously our students and families.

If no decision has been made, I’m going to ask the minister: When will the decision be made? When will there be clarity brought to what teachers can expect with respect to their scheduling?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I agree with the member. Of course, we want to make sure that everybody is aware as quickly as possible about what the future holds.

I also want to reiterate your comments about how unprecedented this year has been and thank our teachers for looking after our kids in a time of great uncertainty. They really have been the foundation of ensuring not only that our kids are in the classroom learning but also that our kids are receiving the supports that they need. You have said this to me before, in the conversations that we have had, that we both agree - I’m sure our colleague from the NDP agrees - that our kids belong in school. That’s where they were going to get the best supports. They belong in front of our amazing teachers.

I can appreciate some of the uncertainty that you may be hearing on the ground. I think it’s important to reiterate that we have a new collective agreement. In that collective agreement, there is an increase in prep time and correcting time for our teachers, negotiated by the union. We have to work around that. We’re going to try to get it done as quickly as we can, but every year we go through this, and this is what we’re going through again at this time of the year. There will be more to come.

I appreciate you letting me know about that. I always want to hear what’s happening on the ground. If that’s an issue, you and I should have a conversation after this as well.

TIM HALMAN: I appreciate that, minister. Certainly, I’m aware of the collective agreement and the 12.5 per cent and so forth agreed upon. Yes, I absolutely understand that.

I just want to take this opportunity and let the minister and senior staff be aware - after 13 years teaching high school, I know this: if high school teachers are asked to teach an extra course, say, and they’re already basically at their minimum contractual marking and prep time, this means no teachers can be scheduled to do any kind of duty during the teaching day.

At many high schools in this area, there are normally two or three, maybe three or four teachers during each teaching period who are on duty throughout the building, which allows them to monitor the hallways, which is critical to the safety of the schools - and not only that, but from a teaching perspective, building relationships, which is the end goal of what we do in education. Outside of the actual classroom environment, that is where a lot of behavioural issues are addressed.

That’s what I’m concerned about when I’m hearing this: the impact that this can have on the functioning of the schools. If there are no teachers on duty, who would be watching over students in the hallways, in the cafeteria, in the common areas, outside? This is something we emphasize. I’d like to put this on the minister’s radar screen and make him aware of - obviously if there are changes to the semestering system for Grades 9 and 10, if changes such as this proceed, please be aware of the sometimes-uncalculated consequences that may transpire.

Shifting gears, I’d like to take some time to discuss with the minister issues related to school infrastructure, specifically ventilation, water, windows, and pathways. I’m going to need the minister to bear with me for a moment just to set up this situation. Here in East Dartmouth specifically - I’m sure we have this in Dartmouth South and in north end Dartmouth - we have many elementary and junior high schools that are on the same site. Many of these schools in this area, when they were constructed in the early 1970s, mid-1970s or 1980s, I understand it was often done so that the junior high and elementary siblings can go back and forth between the schools.

Two schools in my area, Brookhouse and Ellenvale, and Bel Ayr Elementary, which I attended back in the day, and Eric Graves - these are two examples of sites where the idea is to allow easy commutes between sites for students, except for the Wintertime, when these paths are not maintained. I’ve done a bit of research, and it turns out some of these paths aren’t being cleared during the Wintertime. One of my constituents here in Dartmouth East has attempted to get the path cleared at Bel Ayr and Eric Graves for a number of years. The process she’s gone through, I want the minister to be aware, is like a skit out of Monty Python. It really is.

She’s spoken to the Regional Centre for Education. She’s spoken to HRM, because there’s a fire hydrant on the path and she was hoping that HRM would clear that fire hydrant. She’s spoken to the HRM councillor. She’s spoken to me. She’s spoken to the executive director of HRCE. Yet the path still doesn’t get cleared. As a matter of fact, a number of parents this Winter - admittedly, it wasn’t as harsh a Winter as we’ve had in the past - went out and they cleared this path.

They’re told that if there’s an alternative route, students are to take that alternative route, but that alternative route neglects the very reason why the schools were built beside each other in the first place. Bottom line, the end result is that children and members of the community are put at risk for injury.

My question to the minister is this: Does the department track these types of infrastructure situations? My understanding is that this happens in quite a few schools in HRCE, that where there’s an alternative route, kids are encouraged to take that alternative route, to take the streets when those paths aren’t being cleared. Is the department tracking how often this is occurring?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We don’t track it, but I’m happy to pass it along to our operations folks. If the MLA would like to just send me a note on it, that would be great. We’ll make sure that we look into it. Do we track it? No, but we always want to make sure that if something like this comes up, we address it.

TIM HALMAN: Certainly, all of the due process has been followed. I want to assure the minister of that. Obviously, bringing an issue like this in this format, all other options have been exhausted. Certainly, the end goal here is to make the department aware, and I’m curious to know to what extent the department is tracking these things. I certainly recognize - obviously the Centres for Education and CSAP have a level of autonomy and they’re monitoring these things, but again, it’s a level of frustration that parents are having. At the end of the day, they just want their kids to get from point A to point B safely.

I’m curious too - how many other schools in this area and throughout the province have similar designs and parents and students who are being told that these connecting paths won’t be maintained if a street option is available? Nothing annoys parents and guardians more than when infrastructure isn’t working in their favour. Just as long as this is on the radar screen, and I appreciate the minister - perhaps we will have a chat about that.

Obviously, the frustration here for these parents is that they’re caught up in a bureaucratic maze. They have to jump through hoops to get a path cleared in order to keep their kids safe. I want the minister to be aware - I mean, the HRCE has indicated that if other street paths are available, they should be used. Again, just curious to what degree this is being tracked. I know that’s something you said, that it isn’t, but just definitely want it on the radar screen.

With respect to school ventilation, there’s been a lot of talk about school ventilation. Certainly, the school I taught in in Dartmouth, some of the windows, they wouldn’t even open. I’ve heard concerns about ventilation from a lot of teachers.

Can the minister clarify how much was invested to deal with school ventilation, and moving forward, how much more will be invested to ensure all schools have adequate ventilation?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: In regard to ventilation, we work very closely with Public Health on what we need to do as a department to support the regional centres to ensure that we’re doing everything we can, based on Public Health guidelines. We’ve spent $1.6 million in enhanced checks in the last year for ventilation to ensure that we’re doing everything we can in the schools across the province, based on our feedback and our support from Public Health.

Of course, we do our normal checks throughout our operations annually to ensure that if we need to do any work to ventilation systems, we do.

[6:15 p.m.]

I’ll finish off by saying that all of this stuff is very important to Nova Scotians, that we do this work, especially during the last year. We do our work annually. Our schools are safe. We’re following the guidelines. We have been open for the year. Very fortunately, we haven’t had any in-school spread of COVID‑19, and we’re going to continue Public Health. We’re going to continue to follow the guidelines that they want us to follow. We’re going to continue to do the checks that are necessary.

THE CHAIR: Following Public Health protocol, we’re required to take a 15-minute COVID‑19 break. We’ll return at 6:31 p.m., at which time the member will have 29 minutes left in his first hour.

[6:16 p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]

[6:31 p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]

THE CHAIR: Order, please. The Subcommittee on Supply resumes.

The honourable member for Dartmouth East, with 29 minutes left.

TIM HALMAN: I would like to return to my line of questioning on school infrastructure. This question relates to deferred maintenance. I know our schools throughout Nova Scotia, some of them suffer from that deferred maintenance. Obviously, I certainly recognize that making decisions regarding a budget sometimes comes at the cost of infrastructure. That’s really unfortunate because I think we would all acknowledge that our students respond to the environment that they’re in. Ideally, we want to have, at all times, the best physical environments for our students.

In my four years being Education Critic, I’ve had the opportunity to travel the province and visit many schools. Obviously, this is pre-pandemic when this would occur. You look at the state of some of our parking lots - to borrow a phrase from the MLA for Guysborough-Eastern Shore-Tracadie, it’s like Scud missiles hit some of these parking lots. Just watching some parents drive into the parking lots is like a scene out of Mario Kart. This is an issue. It’s an issue for some of our schools throughout the province. The parking lots, windows - these are two classic examples that I illustrate.

My question is this: How much does the department invest to ensure school infrastructure is maintained at an acceptable level?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: That’s some high praise from the MLA for Guysborough-Eastern Shore-Tracadie. I’ll tell him what you said.

Built into the budgets of our regional centres - they would determine some of their priorities when it comes to deferred maintenance in their operational budgets. As a department, in a normal year, we spend $6 million a year on various maintenance projects across the province. This year was different. We spent an additional $15 million on top of the $6 million. We’re north of $20 million this year, but in any given year, it’s $6 million. That’s on our end compared to what - that doesn’t include what the centres are spending themselves.

TIM HALMAN: I’d like to ask the minister: What criteria have been used to determine how and where that $15 million has been spent, or is going to be spent, for deferred maintenance?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: There is a long list that I’m actually looking at now, and I’m happy to provide some more information to the member so he knows where the money has gone. I’m looking at a couple of different columns when it comes to what we did with the regular $6 million, what we did with the extra money that we’re spending. It’s really spread right across the province. The centres come with their priorities and we build it into the plan, based on what their needs and wants are. That’s how it’s decided.

Again, I have a list here. I’m looking at the number of projects. They’re really spread right across Halifax, Annapolis, Cape Breton, Chignecto, the Acadian CSAP. If you want some more information on those projects, I’m happy to talk with you.

TIM HALMAN: Is it correct to say that it is the regional centres for education and CSAP that put in requests to the department as to what the priorities would be?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: As I said, there is some money that they would spend on their own, based on their own operational budgets, when it comes to maintenance, but they would also submit to the department some of their larger requests that they need when it comes to infrastructure. Of course, we work with them to determine what we can do to support them. As I said, there are a number of projects that were approved through every centre of education, really, to support their requests. Ultimately, they’re making the priorities. They have some of their own money to do it, and also we have money to provide to support them.

TIM HALMAN: Can the minister provide an update to us as to when all the issues with school water will be fixed? Can the minister provide some concrete timelines?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I’ll start off by answering the question with: we have safe water in all schools. We’ve made sure that whatever we needed to do to adjust it we did, so I want to reiterate that to everyone here. We have clean water in schools and we continue to and we will continue to have it.

In regard to the infrastructure piece that the member is asking about, we’re spending $2.7 million on the bottle-filling stations that are going to go into the schools. The actual installation of that will be done by September for the next school year. There are some other steps that we need to take after we implement them, but particularly on the infrastructure side, $2.7 million is what we’re investing to ensure that these new stations are put into the schools that need them.

TIM HALMAN: What’s the timeline for the completion of the remediation of this infrastructure in our schools?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: As I’ve said, we’re spending $2.7 million. The infrastructure on these stations will be in place in September. As part of the remediation process, we still have some tests that we’ll need to do after to determine if everything is meeting guidelines. That has to happen after they’re installed, of course. It’s part of the remediation plan. We feel confident that it’s going to address a lot of the issues that we had in some of the water tested. The $2.7 million infrastructure will be in place. We’ll test, but in the meantime every school will continue to be supplied with safe drinking water, and there will be safe drinking water in every school.

TIM HALMAN: Along with investments to remediate this, it is not unrealistic to have an attached timeline. It’s always better to let residents of our province - families - know what that associated timeline is. Again, to the minister, what is the timeline? When can Nova Scotians expect the remediation of this?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: The most important thing for parents and families in Nova Scotia is that there’s safe drinking water in every school. That will not change. That is something that we, of course, are going to continue to do. We have a plan in place for the stations that we need to implement. We’re spending $2.7 million on it. Then from there, we’ll do the tests. Most importantly, there’s going to be safe drinking water in the schools, and I’m going to ensure that I’m not going to rush this thing. We’re going to do it right and we’re going to make sure that - if the station addresses it, great. If we need to do additional remediation, we’ll look at that. We have to trust the fact that these things are going in place and that we need to follow the proper protocols to ensure that we do all of the remediation. The remediation plan is all of these things. We have to go through a number of tests to ensure the quality is there and that the levels are met. The most important message to parents and families is that our schools are safe and that schools have safe drinking water.

TIM HALMAN: Absolutely. We all know that they’re safe. No one denies that. I certainly send my four kids every day with the confidence that the water that they access at school is safe. No doubt about that. Let me ask this then: Will all the results be made public once these tests and remediation are complete?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Through the regional centres, people can access the results. They’re public now. They’ve been public for a while, and they’ll continue to be public as we test them.

[6:45 p.m.]

TIM HALMAN: Certainly, I’m aware of that because I was an MLA, along with other opposition MLAs in both parties, who pushed to get that information. What I’m referring to is, once this is all completed, will those final results, perhaps in a few months’ time, will that be made public? Obviously, this is an ongoing process, this remediation. What I’m referring to is the final product, the final reports. Will that be made public months from now? Will you make that commitment to Nova Scotians?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We’ve already made that commitment to Nova Scotians. The information is continuously updated. As we do our infrastructure that is necessary and we continue to test, we’re going to continue to update the information. Again, the regional centres have been posting this stuff to ensure that Nova Scotians have full access to what’s happening. We’ll continue to do it to ensure that, as we go through our quality assurance processes that we have in place for the infrastructure we’re testing, we’ll do it and, most importantly, we’ll ensure that children and students and staff have safe drinking water in their schools, which they’ve always had.

TIM HALMAN: Along the same theme of, essentially, student health and safety - I want to switch gears a little bit, but it is along the lines of student health and safety. The minister and the department are probably aware that on March 8^th, the Nova Scotia Health Authority issued a drug alert, indicating Public Health received reports from a community organization in metro that witnessed two drug overdoses. Both individuals used what are known as Sweet Tarts, or Xanax, which apparently is a multi-coloured candy.

These overdoses, I understand, were resistant to naloxone. This is terrible and it chills us all to the bones that people are dying from drugs, and some of these are disguised as children’s candy. Heartbreaking doesn’t even begin to describe what’s happened and what is happening when it comes to opioids.

Quite frankly, I’ve attended funerals of former students who have died from preventable overdoses, and we all know these terrible situations are impacting our communities in Nova Scotia. They’re impacting our communities throughout Canada. I raise this because I’d like to know what resources have been allocated by the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development to ensure our students are protected from these drugs disguised as children’s candy. What resources have been allocated? What programming has been put in place? If the minister could give us an update on that.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: The member is absolutely correct. It is heartbreaking, and I’ve had those experiences, too, with family and friends at home, and my heart goes out to - my thoughts and prayers go out to those families. It is very difficult to comprehend this and how dangerous it can be for students.

Just to answer your question in regard to what we invest when it comes to supports, it’s really a community foundation. We’re involved as the department. We have our partners in health that are involved, whether it’s the IWK Health Centre or other health care stakeholders. Our local law enforcement within our communities are involved in the conversation. We design curriculum up to Grade 9 when it comes to talking to students about the dangers of drugs and the impact it can have on their lives, and what the signs are to look for so they can support themselves and support their friends and families.

SchoolsPlus is a big part of that too, the money that we spend there. We invest $14 million in SchoolsPlus alone, overall, and a chunk of that money goes towards initiatives like this. As well, as I’ve already mentioned, we have a health curriculum that this is part of to ensure that we bring our partners in and do our part to support information and education around the dangers that could be there for students.

TIM HALMAN: It sounds like there’s a lot of good work being done. It sounds like there are a lot of moving parts to address this issue via our education system, but I want to take this opportunity to make a suggestion to you and your colleagues in the department.

In 2012, one of my students by the name of Olivia Jallota, she died of an overdose, and she was 15 years old. Obviously, I think for any family that goes through that type of trauma, to the best of your ability, you’ve got to turn that trauma into something positive and productive. Her mom, Dale Jallota, who is a resident of Dartmouth East, she’s been a tireless advocate for curriculum reform and to ensure students learn about the dangers of prescription drugs and opioids. She’s been advocating for at least seven or eight years, that the dangers of prescription drugs and opioids should become a prescribed curriculum outcome.

I know our school system discusses the dangers of these things. I know these conversations are happening in our junior high schools and in our high schools. Even as early as Grade 6, I know these conversations are happening, but often it happens on the initiative of our teachers. My understanding is it’s not a prescribed curriculum outcome. In the past, I’ve facilitated meetings with your predecessor. I remember the member for Kings West was there as well, and he’s a former educator and I have a lot of respect for him. He has a great reputation.

Dale Jallota and others, like Amy Graves, they’ve been advocates for a number of years to try to get this mandated, that our kids have that specific curriculum outcome. My question is: Will you commit to ensuring this topic is a prescribed curriculum outcome in our public school program?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I really appreciate you telling me the story of that parent. I’m actually going to invite her in to have a conversation with me so she has the opportunity to, again, talk about some of the advocacy that she wants to do around it. The loss of a child is - I can imagine it’s devastating, and I want to give her the time, so I’ll let you know, member, when it happens, and maybe you can come in with her as well. We can have a conversation with her.

In regard to - I guess your question is around mandatory curriculum. It’s in the curriculum now, it’s in the health curriculum. We’re looking at high school, so we’re looking at expanding it into high school right now. We’re looking at those opportunities, but I guess to answer your question, it’s there now, it’s going to be there, so it’s important and we continue to evolve around it, working with our key stakeholders. As you know and as we all know, these things and the issues and the dangers that affect our students can change drastically and they can change very quickly, so we want to make sure that we’re as agile as possible to ensure that curriculum is designed, not only with a broad approach to ensuring that students have all the information and support necessary, but also that we can change with the changing environment.

To answer your question again, it’s in the curriculum now, it’s there. It’s really mandatory, it’s part of what we do. The department is looking at what else we can do at the high school level.

TIM HALMAN: Most certainly, Ms. Jallota and her partner would welcome that opportunity to meet with you to have this discussion.

There is a difference between a specific curriculum outcome and a general curriculum outcome, and I see an opportunity here. I have your mandate letter in front of me, and the second point is to establish a framework for physical activity and health literacy for every student. Most certainly, I think this can be embedded as a general curriculum outcome to be taught throughout our high school courses where appropriate, the end goal being, of course, preventive. Absolutely, I know it’s being taught in our junior high schools.

Ms. Jallota wants to see this further embedded within our education system, and I certainly want to thank you for your kindness in offering that conversation, and I look forward to helping facilitate that, to help set that up, because it is a very important conversation. As a function of time, and I just say this anecdotally from - I don’t have data, but anecdotally, my observations, this seems to be a situation in Nova Scotia and throughout Canada that is getting more and more problematic, more and more challenging to the health and well-being of our communities. Please continue to engage in that conversation with your colleagues and the department. I want to thank you, Minister, for being so receptive to working on this with my resident here in Dartmouth East.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

THE CHAIR: Forty seconds.

TIM HALMAN: Forty seconds. You get to spend some time with my colleague from Dartmouth South. When we return, we’ll continue discussing issues related to student health and wellness, and I look forward to continuing our discussion and an opportunity to ask questions on a very, very important topic impacting Nova Scotians.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you to the member and to the Chair. The Toronto Maple Leafs can let in multiple goals in 40 seconds, so anyway I’ll pass it over.

[7:00 p.m.]

THE CHAIR: Order, please. The time for the Progressive Conservative caucus has elapsed.

The honourable member for Dartmouth South.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you for your opening comments, minister. I listened for the last hour with interest. I’ll just start with some questions right out of the budget. On Page 6.11 we see a massive reduction in lease costs. I’m assuming that is related to the final purchase of the P3 schools, but can you clarify that, minister?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: You are correct on that. That is what it represents.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you. Can you let me know the total amount of the lease costs for those schools over their lifetime?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Just for clarification, over the entire life span? So, what, when ‑ so back as early as possible that we can go?

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Yes.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We are going to have to get you that information. We don’t have it here in front of us, but we will investigate and get it to you as quickly as possible.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you. I know that the minister has the assistant deputy minister and a financial whiz there, and probably spit‑balling isn’t really on the agenda, but my follow-up to that question is: How do those costs roughly compare with the cost of schools in the current capital plan? We are sort of comparing apples to apples. What is the lifetime cost of a school and how do the lifetime costs of those P3 schools generally relate to the ones currently being planned?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Essentially, when we looked at all the schools, regardless of when we got it - there were 39 P3s we purchased in total for a total of $227 million when we bought most at the end of their leases. There are a number of things you look at in the assessment of it. You’d look at community need, you would look at the size of the school, based on the enrolment projections in the area, and that’s really what determines - and the quality of the buildings. These buildings were in really good shape when we made the decision to buy them. That was a big piece of it as well, so $227 million for 39. If you were to try to build 39 schools today, I would argue that it would be significantly more. I’m not a designer or engineer, but I know that with the costs of construction now and what we’re doing with our own capital plan, to build those 39 schools would be much more than what we actually ended up paying for at the end of the lease.

Hopefully that answers part of your question, but I will follow up with some additional information.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I look forward to seeing those numbers. I’m going to transition into a subject that I’m sure the minister is maybe getting tired of me talking about, but for every dollar invested in child care, there’s a $2.23 increase in the GDP. Per dollar, the child care sector creates more jobs than any other industry. Expansion in the early learning and care sector in Nova Scotia can, in fact, provide more short-term economic stimulus than investing in most other major sectors of the economy, which we have done.

Since the last budget, when we received all of our budget documents, they were all beautiful and designed, and then we got a two-page photocopy that outlined the $1 billion in spending, for which there had been no oversight and that wasn’t previously planned. None of that was new provincial dollars for child care. I wonder whether - I know that the minister is talking to his federal counterparts. I’ll have more questions on this later, but I really want to understand why there is no new money in this budget, notwithstanding hopes and prayers for federal intervention. I also hope and pray for federal intervention, but I know better than to put all my eggs in that basket.

Why no new money in this budget for licensed child care, given that economic argument, given that we are in recovery, given that we’re giving money to construction and roads and business in various forms? Not to argue the merits of any of that, but just to say why is this missing?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I won’t go into a big, long spiel about everything, because we have made significant investments when it comes to child care, and I know you don’t deny them, of course not. There are things that we needed to do to get wages up and support communities that had limited access. We’re $75 million in this budget, so it does represent a significant chunk of what we’re doing.

I think it’s important to know, too, that we are not done our negotiations with the federal government yet when it comes to the Early Learning and Child Care Agreement that we have with them. Stay tuned on that. We don’t know what the final outcome of that is going to be, but I will reiterate that, as part of those conversations - I had the conversation with my counterpart and hopefully am going to have it again soon - where we want to be ‑ we’re ready to go.

We have been pushing hard on a universal system to support the rest of our children in that age bracket and we’re prepared to come in as a willing partner, whatever that looks like. We know and we appreciate that that’s the next step and I think everybody agrees with that.

You know, pre‑Primary has taken 75 per cent of the kids that potentially never had the ability to access early childhood learning before school, but we’ve got to look at the rest of our age bracket now and we’ve got to determine what that looks like.

I really want to thank our early childhood educators because they - and I said this during our late debate - they are amazing ambassadors for our province. They look after our kids. They have opened and are back to work after the pandemic. The majority are set up to open and they really just base that on a foundation of love and compassion for our children. To all of them, thank you so much.

We are going to continue to make investments, but this is something that you are particularly passionate about and I really appreciate the conversations that we’ve been having. It is something that I’m seeing is going to be one of, probably, the big issues that I’m going to try to tackle as minister of the department now. It’s important to me. The federal government is well aware, so we continue to negotiate that we’re ready. We’re ready to look at what a universal system looks like.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’ll definitely come back around to that, but I just want to stay for a minute on the theme of recovery. The minister is right, I don’t deny the investments that have been made, but I am specifically asking here about recovery funds. To that end, the federal government has been fairly transparent with their federal recovery spending and, as the minister is well aware, that includes the Safe Return to Class Fund.

That fund was announced on August 26^th. The NDP caucus filed an FOI on August 27^th and based on what we discovered - sorry, on August 27^th - based on this FOI, the executive director of the African Canadian Services Division put forward a proposal to use some of the federal funding to support remote learning, specifically for Black students, including training and support for families to assist their children in blended or virtual learning scenarios. On September 9^th, the executive director for Employment Support & Income Assistance (ESIA) wrote to request funds be used to provide one-time funding for internet access for low-income families with school-age children.

I think all of us in our constituency offices have lots more examples of requests that were made to the department in the wake of the announcement of that fund and as we moved into the pandemic. My question is: In the name of transparency, how did the department determine what the priorities for investment were? Is there an impact analysis? Is there evidence? Is there a framework that can help us to understand why those funds were used the way they were?

[7:15 p.m.]

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: In regard to where the resources went and how we made the determination of where money was spent, a lot of it was based on the feedback that we received from Nova Scotians, from families, as I said before. As members know, we received over 28,000 surveys from parents and other stakeholders within the system to determine what we needed to do to support remote learning as we go through the pandemic. That’s 32,000 tablets and computer devices that were purchased, and they were delivered into communities that requested them.

One of the key stakeholders was our African Nova Scotian community that needs additional support, so that was part of it. As well, we upgraded wi-fi services in our schools and other internet infrastructure to ensure that we did whatever we could so people would have internet access. That’s really what we used a big chunk of the federal money for, and some of the other resources that we have we dealt with currently within the existing department budget.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: We have seen those lists, and I appreciate that there was a survey, but in my question I mentioned two specific internal government asks. I know that the minister wasn’t there at the time, but did department staff just sit around a table and say, all right, this is in, this is out? Was there a framework? Was there any kind of formal way of evaluating the millions of different things that the money could be spent on, or was it just, kind of, on an emergency rolling need basis?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: On these specific topics that you’re talking about, they were consistent with what we were hearing from the surveys that we received. We also had every school do reflections, so that was teachers and staff all providing feedback from every school on what we needed to accomplish - what ideas or where we should invest to support our students as we dealt with the closure, and then again with reopening in the Fall.

Again, that goes to the technology investments that we made when it comes to ensuring that students have access to the technology that they needed, dealing with particular stakeholders within communities across the province, ensuring that we had the strongest wi-fi infrastructure on our school sites, and looking at what would come when schools reopened. Your specific requests are really consistent with what we were hearing from teachers and administrators and from families and students.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: We know that that fund was used in part to provide some support for school food programs, math and literacy programs, some PPE, and the purchase of some Chromebooks. As well, $5.5 million of the funds were used to support community access to school gyms, but from an infrastructure perspective, can the minister point to what the department did to ensure that the schools themselves were safe for students, teachers, and staff?

I know there was this ventilation check. I think the minister’s predecessor invented the term “passive ventilation” - which I will say my children have in their school - which means windows, I think. I know that there were lots of calls for specific work to be done in the school buildings themselves and I am wondering if the minister can point to any of that work.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: There are a number of ‑ really, there is a bit of a list of what we would have invested in in the schools to ensure that we’re doing whatever we can to protect our staff and our students, but also following any health protocols. When it comes to the ventilation piece, we were doing checks anyway, but we will be doing additional checks now to ensure that if there are any upgrades we need to make in particular schools we are making them. That’s all based on the foundation of following the protocols and guidelines of Dr. Strang. So there’s that piece of it. Of course, PPE is a big part of the investment that we’ve made to ensure that we are providing adequate PPE on site for our staff and for students and other support personnel.

The other piece of it, too, is the classroom configuration. In a lot of cases, we had to adjust our classroom configurations to ensure that we were meeting all the proper distancing that we needed for the classrooms. As well, of course, some of the stuff we were doing already, when we were providing drinking water where we needed to and other supports to the students. That’s some of the things that we were doing within the school to ensure that we were following health protocols.

Of course, they have been engaged, really, from the beginning. We take our lead from Public Health. That’s why I believe we’ve been so successful, it was that we’ve really been in lockstep with them when it comes to ensuring that they have a strong level of comfort when it comes to classroom safety. As well, it’s in school. That’s the most important place for them, and the access to gyms and stuff came a little bit later. We’re always watching that because first and foremost for us it’s about kids being in class and learning in that learning environment. We’ve had some restrictions on some extracurricular activities when it comes to schools and that’s important because we need to keep our kids in school. Hopefully that answers some of the information.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I know we’re going to go to break pretty soon, and I do have some more recovery-related questions, but you mentioned the drinking stations, and I watched with some confusion the exchange between you and the member for Dartmouth East, so I just want to clarify on this point that my understanding is that the touchless water stations that are going in all the schools are in lieu of active remediation for pipes. Is that accurate?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: First step is the water stations. We believe that that will address a lot of our concerns, but that’s only the first step. We would implement those first. We’d go through another series of testing to ensure if other remediation is needed, that we also have to deal with that as well, so to answer your question, the water stations are only the first step. We’re putting those right across the system, and then we’ll go back and do some quality testing to ensure that the issue is addressed, and if we still need to do remediation, we will.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I don’t want to waste a bunch of time on this, but again, just to clarify: Remediation is needed. Presumably it would be for drinking water, so if you have a touchless water station in the school and you go back in, are you going to be testing the school bathroom taps, and if you find elevated lead, you’re actually going to remediate those pipes in older schools? My understanding was that you would not do that because drinking water would be taken care of.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I will say this: The primary focus is drinking water, so right now we are installing touchless water stations across the system, as I said. We do our retests to ensure whether or not we need to do further remediation. The focus will be on drinking water. What we do know is that in a lot of the schools it’s actually encouraged not to use the bathroom taps as your source of drinking water, but the focus right now is installing these water stations and getting additional tests done to determine if we’re okay or we need to do additional remediation to ensure that those systems are safe for drinking.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: We know that 94 per cent of the funds being spent on direct COVID relief here in Nova Scotia is federal dollars. We also know that as of December of 2020, there was $6.6 million left unspent in the Safe Return to Class Fund that had been allocated to Nova Scotia. Has the department spent those funds? Do they plan to? If so, how?

[7:30 p.m.]

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We will eventually spend the full amount. What you’re seeing there really represents the difference between the end of our fiscal year and the end of the school year. We have that additional money that will be spent to support COVID-19-related work within our schools that’s necessary, and it will be spent by the end of the school year.

THE CHAIR: I think we’ve reached the time for our 15-minute COVID-19 break. We will resume again at 7:45 p.m.

[7:31 p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]

[7:45 p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]

THE CHAIR: The Subcommittee of the Whole House on Supply will resume.

The honourable member for Dartmouth South. You have until 8:15 p.m. for your first hour.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I hope everyone got something to eat, maybe took a walk or did some arm exercises.

I want to come back to what we were talking about before the break, which was the $6.6 million left in that fund, which I think the minister said would be spent between now and the end of June. I understand that we’ve learned in the last year that anything can happen between now and the end of June, but we certainly hope for the best. Can the minister give me some idea of what that looks like?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: [Inaudible] That money’s going to carry us through a lot of the initiatives that I talked about. That’s the PPE at schools, that’s the deep cleaning when it comes to our schools and our buses. That would include devices where necessary that we needed to support any kind of learning initiatives or mobile learning in the event that we need support. There’s nothing new with that money. That’s going to carry us to the end of the year.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Just to be clear, there’s the anticipation that we’ll be purchasing more devices between now and the end of the year? I think that’s what the bulk of our money has been spent on. And will we need more PPE by the end of the year? I know those masks have already been allocated to students and staff. Will we be allocating more of those?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We would still need to purchase some of the stuff that you mentioned - PPE, hand sanitizer, et cetera, where necessary. The cleaning of our schools and our buses is also a big chunk of that cost. Some of the resources we do provide around online learning. Technically, not the devices themselves but the curriculum and any other supports that we need for online learning when it comes to math or some of the other subjects.

There is a list that would cover off the rest of that money for the year. Again, it’s a case of we have $6.6 million left. Our fiscal year doesn’t line up with the end of the year, so that overall number, including that $6.6 million, is what we predict we are going to need to support school systems throughout the year.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: If there was a way to provide that list, I would be very interested to see it.

The government business plan says there are plans to conduct a recovery review in 2021 to ensure that existing programs are affordable and improve the well-being of Nova Scotians, and that makes a lot of sense. When you say that existing programs need to be affordable - against the backdrop of the fact that the government is sort of saying we’re spending now, but we’re going to get back to balance in two or three years - when we look at the math for that, that actually looks like a reduction in departmental budgets, not necessarily this year, but going forward.

When you’re talking about affordability, where is the department - where is the minister looking at finding those savings? Is that workforce? Is that programs? Where does that affordability metric come in?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: What I can say is that I am not in the process of looking at any kind of a savings in the future. As a government, we’ve made significant investments because they were necessary to support our teachers, support our students, and to support some of the changes in the curriculum that we have. I’m not looking at that at all.

I continue to advocate on programs in the support such that I feel that we need in the school system, based upon our conversations. We’ve had some great conversations with educators across the province and with the union president ‑ the Nova Scotia Teachers Union president ‑ about what the classroom looks like post‑COVID-19. What have we learned from this experience? One of the ones that I’ve found very interesting is outdoor learning and what that’s going to look like in the future.

Really, to answer your question, we are not engaged in any conversation that would look at a reduction in resources for our students. If anything, it’s the complete opposite. We will adjust as necessary to the pandemic to ensure that the supports are there for our kids and our educators, and everybody in the system, for that matter.

You know, they’ve really been our heroes of the system from Day 1. They are the main reason why our kids are in school where they belong and we all can’t thank them enough for their dedication. Really, my focus is more on what supports do we need, what have we learned really, post‑COVID-19, that we can help support our kids and support our educators? It’s been very positive, the conversations I’ve had so far.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’m glad to hear that, but I think somebody in the department is looking at it because the four‑year fiscal plan that we saw shows a decrease in departmental expenses after this year from a total of about $11.5 billion to $11.3 billion. We know that your budget, Minister, makes up about 13 per cent of all departmental expenses. So, back-of-the-napkin math: the department’s share of cuts would be $27 million. I would like to ask the minister: Where will those cuts come from? Where will the cost reductions come from?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Again, I will reiterate that I am in no way, shape, or form, as the minister of this department, currently advocating or discussing how we are going to cut supports from our schools, from our kids, from our educators, and from our early childhood sector.

As a government, we have invested significantly over the last number of years. We’ve had a plan to invest to ensure that we support stronger inclusive education supports. We are doing that again this year with an additional $15 million. We continued to hire teachers’ assistants over the last number of years, and again this year we are hiring an additional 250 support staff as part of our inclusive education budget increase. So, that’s where my focus is and that’s where it’s going to continue to be.

Our conversations that we are having with stakeholders are: What is your feedback? First and foremost, thank you to everyone for helping us keep our schools open during a world pandemic. What did we learn from COVID-19? What else do we want to implement to support classroom learning and support education?

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I am glad to hear that. I will shift out of affordability, although I’m hoping that doesn’t come back to haunt us down the road. Not that things shouldn’t be affordable, but we do get concerned when we look at that forecast. I look forward to hearing how that balance will be achieved not in the education system, but maybe in some other places.

The other pillar was well-being. My companion question there is: How is the department measuring well-being and the impact of this budget on the well-being of students and the system?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Just a couple of things to that important question: That’s really a big part of - outside of numeracy and literacy, well-being is also a huge aspect for us, for students. It was a big focus when we went back to school in the Fall. We had staff - that was one of the key priorities that we had for them, making sure that they had some additional time during the day to ensure that if students needed additional support that they would get it. That’s been throughout the year and that will continue.

We do have a student survey that we do. It’s going out at the end of the month. The last one we did was in 2019. Of course, the pandemic played a part in getting that out last year. I’m very interested to see what the results are going to be, because I would suspect that if you’re trying to compare a survey from 2019 to a year where there’s a world pandemic and it’s had some very significant varying impacts on people’s - their in-school is important, the experience has been positive for the most part. People are going to have some concerns, some ideas, so I’m very curious to see what those results are. We’ll take those results and we’ll build that into what our conversation is around post-COVID-19 in the school system. That survey is going out at the end of the month and we look forward to feedback.

One of the key elements that came out of the student well-being, and I said it earlier, was what the classroom looks like, more space, more space outside. All of that. Just some examples, some aspects that we’re going to try to implement to support student well-being.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: It sounds from the minister’s answer that this kind of notion of well-being is going to be based on a subjective survey filled out by students themselves. We know that there are metrics for this.

[8:00 p.m.]

There are countries that have well‑being budgets that they measure against certain criteria. Here in Atlantic Canada, we have at least two or three organizations that are also working on systemic ways of measuring well‑being - Genuine Progress Index, Engage Nova Scotia.

I would like to ask the minister: Will the department be engaging any of those kinds of more robust measures as they determine how to spend in this budget and future budgets, or is it based on student surveys? If it is just based on student surveys, how are those questions being arrived at, and who is evaluating them, and who is writing them?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: To follow up on the member’s question and her previous question, there is a company that actually does the survey. It’s Narrative Research that’s doing it. They would craft the survey and the questions based on feedback they are getting from students, but I don’t want to leave the impression that the only thing that we’re using is a student survey. That’s one aspect of it.

As I said earlier, we do receive feedback from every school when it comes to student well‑being. We are receiving feedback from our health care stakeholders, whether it’s the IWK or others. As well, we continue to make investments ourselves into student well‑being, whether it’s through supporting initiatives in the classroom, to support additional food for students in school that may have been ‑ well, we all know the challenges that have come with the pandemic.

I don’t want to leave you with the impression that we’re just dealing with students [Inaudible]. So this is actually being conducted. We have confidence in how they’re doing their research. They are very familiar with people all over Atlantic Canada. A lot of teachers are involved, there are large communities involved, and our health care providers are involved.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thank you. That’s helpful, but I am taking away that there is, again, not a single framework or metric. Hopefully, I will hear a different story when I ask about it again, inevitably before too long.

I want to switch over to school capital. When the government eliminated school boards, they also eliminated public input into the school site selection process, along with an entire democratic board of governance. Siting of schools used to be guided by board‑level site selection - a committee that included SAC members, school board members, an African Nova Scotian representative, a Mi’kmaw representative, and members of municipal council. This is an issue near and dear to my heart and the member will have heard me speak about this for years now.

The revised Education Act and Regulations that came into effect on April 1, 2018 ‑ three years ago - it seems just like yesterday ‑ eliminated any requirement for community involvement and consultation. I asked the former minister about this time and time again and was told, no, no, no, we’re still engaging, we’re still consulting, but we never got any evidence of that or understanding of how that would work, or independent verification of that from communities.

A case in point is the Eastern Shore District High School. We were told in Budget Estimates a year ago that a written report on the evaluation of the existing school site was expected that month. That was April 2020. We never got that. Is the minister able to table the report that came out from that site selection?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: As part of the community conversation that’s happening currently about the school in Eastern Shore, I’m happy to report we received over 700 responses from the community at large about what they want to see in a future school in their community. The technical assessments that were done by TIR are actually online right now, so people can view them. I’m happy to get the text or whatever, the website that you can go to so you can see it.

That was part of the community conversation. Again, I am happy to say that there has been great engagement from the day we launched. The first day or so, we had a few hundred, and now we’re at over 700 responses. The community is really engaged in the conversation. It’s important because that’s what I wanted in the first place when I made the decision to go back out, and it’s important because the community deserves a new school. Kids deserve a new school, and that’s another community that has a growing population. I hope people continue to provide feedback.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: To my understanding, there has never been a question about the community needing a new school. That’s off the table. I’m glad that there’s been so much feedback, but just to take us back, the former minister told us that the changes to the consultation process - which, from where I sit, is the elimination of the consultation process up until this particular conversation - was going to be faster and more efficient. In this situation, the site was selected in February, an application for judicial review was filed, and after that the government announced that the decision would be set aside, and a consultation process would be engaged.

It’s great that we’ve gotten all this community feedback in the wake of legal action taken by community and parents, but that’s still not a consultation system. It’s definitely not faster and it’s definitely not less expensive. It definitely creates more hardship to the community, which I would suggest could all have been avoided if there was actually an open and clear consultation process to begin with, ideally under the purview of a school board, but given that those are gone now, in some other capacity.

Can the minister say how long this consultation process will take? When will it wrap up and when will a final decision be made? How will it run? I know the minister says he’s getting a lot of surveys, but is there a process, in fact, for receiving those, assimilating them, and engaging people?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Essentially TIR controls the ‑ has the ultimate responsibility when it comes to school site selection. It was part of the new process. They do a technical review of the land where a school sits, essentially to determine if the size is adequate for the school to be replaced on that site, or if we have to move off to another site. All that information is provided publicly. They have to provide it publicly as part of the new process. Then that’s where the community comes in and provides discussion around the feedback received by TIR.

Hopefully, that answers your question that you are looking for. That is the process that we go by. There is still a community . . .

THE CHAIR: Member, you’re [Inaudible]. Ten seconds.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: It doesn’t answer my question, but I look forward to asking you again in an hour. Thank you.

[8:15 p.m.]

THE CHAIR: The time for the NDP caucus for this hour has expired.

The honourable member for Dartmouth East.

TIM HALMAN: Hello again, minister and staff. Just following up on the questions related to the school selection process from my colleague from Dartmouth South. If I recall, I think it was in the Summer of 2019, the government announced that new site selection process and, if I recall, in that process they said they would look at the existing location before seeking a new site. They would conduct a technical site review and they’d consult with the school community. My understanding is that there have been some FOIPOP requests to get that technical report, but apparently nobody can get their hands on this. My question is this: Will the government release that technical report for the new school in the Eastern Shore?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: It’s already been released. You can find it. I have the website here in front of me if you want to take it down, or the member. I can happily send him a note to make sure that he gets the website so he can review.

TIM HALMAN: I appreciate that, and certainly to get information on this issue has been very, very challenging. The fundamental question everyone is trying to get at here is, essentially, why did the government fail to follow their own process when it came to the school on Eastern Shore?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We actually had an ad in the Chronicle Herald last week that actually provides the website where people can go view the technical reports from TIR, so there has been full disclosure from me as minister. Again, we had an ad for everybody to see in the Chronicle Herald that provided the link to the website where people can view the report.

TIM HALMAN: I certainly appreciate that. This is information the public wants to know. A lot of those questions have been asked for months and months and months, and the fact is the question that is going around from members of that community is, essentially, why was the public not initially consulted in this location process, but only on the consolidation? There are a lot of questions, a lot of questions. Certainly, what I’m hearing is a lot of people want to know if the court challenge - did that influence the decision to set all this aside?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I’m very cognizant of what’s before the courts right now, so what I’m going to say is this: I’m excited for that community. I’m glad I went out for more feedback. We had well over 700 responses from people in the community that are talking about the future for their children, which is fantastic. We couldn’t ask for better discussion to be taking place.

I’ve provided all the technical reports that were done in the past. People can view those easily. We’ve advertised everywhere we can to ensure that people have the information. For me, it’s about getting that information back. The deadline for - just to answer the member, your colleague from the NDP as well - the deadline for feedback is April 23^rd, and then I go through that process of going through the information with staff and determining what the next steps are going to be.

Ultimately, this is a long time coming for this community. I’m excited for them. I look forward to getting to the conclusion of the process so that we can make decisions and so the community can move forward. This has been a long time coming for them. They deserve it, the kids deserve it, and I look forward to the competition.

TIM HALMAN: Certainly, we all appreciate that, minister. We all want to see our students throughout Nova Scotia have access to the best possible facilities, and we’re certainly all cognizant of how long this goes back on the Eastern Shore, this desire to get a new school. Folks just want to know, is the Eastern Shore school location scrapped, or is this simply paused to allow community feedback? Will you simply listen to this feedback? Will they be making that final decision based on that feedback? There are a lot of questions that are still circulating. I think it’s really incumbent on the government to provide that clarity. We all wait for the results of that feedback.

Obviously, when we see situations like this, where following the process has been very choppy, very problematic, it spills over into other communities as well. I’m hearing that there has been a lack of community consultation for the new school in Clayton Park West. My question is this: What steps is the department taking to ensure there’s community consultation, making sure that that process is followed for that new school?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I want to be clear on this. The member went down what I perceived as a slope, where he was trying to determine whether this was a site conversation. It seems like he’s picking a site. I’m not picking a site at this point. I’m taking feedback from the community to determine where the best site for that school will be. We look forward to getting that feedback from the good folks of that community so we can make some decisions.

As I said, there is a process in place where TIR - and the member mentioned it as well - will open a current site and determine if a new build will fit in that site, as part of their technical review. They’ll look at additional sites if it doesn’t. That’s taking into account all the costs and everything that would be associated if you have to move from one site to another. That’s all information that they are required to make public to the community so that the community can provide feedback.

In regard to Eastern Shore, questions have been asked of the community to determine what they see as the future of the community. As I’ve said, we’ll make decisions based on the feedback that we get, and that the technical information that TIR went through for assessment is readily available to anybody who wants to view it.

TIM HALMAN: The whole process in the last, at least, year and a half has been very, very choppy and problematic. As an MLA, as an Education Critic, I’ve certainly heard a lot of concerns. I certainly encourage the department to do a lot better with the communication moving forward, for this school, which we all recognize is needed and required, but the process certainly has been a choppy, choppy process.

I would like to return to the topic of student wellness. April 7, 2013 is a day that is going to haunt me forever. Eight years ago, we lost Rehtaeh Parsons. I woke up this morning, I had a real uneasy feeling, and then I realized what day it was. I was really contemplating whether or not I should be asking these questions, but I feel like I have to, Minister. I really feel like I need to ask some questions regarding the approach we’re taking, investments we’re making to prevent cyberbullying, bullying, and violence and harassment at our schools.

When I say this is going to haunt me forever, I was the acting vice-principal at Prince Andrew High School. Rehtaeh was one of our students. She had been transferred from Cole Harbour High School. Look, this stuff is real. She’ll live on in our hearts forever. It’s on all of us to make sure that we have the best proactive, preventive policies in place to prevent cyberbullying and bullying at school. I certainly acknowledge, Mr. Chair, that the government passed a bill in the Fall of 2017 to deal with cyberbullying, but I think we need to have a discussion on where we are and where we should be going with violence in our schools. Just recently, on March 6^th, we had a high-profile incident at one of our high schools in metro. This is certainly an issue that we need to really acknowledge and discuss.

One of the things that emerged after Rehtaeh Parsons was - one of the things that was put in place - the position of safe and inclusive schools. Could the minister tell us how much money is allocated for the position of safe and inclusive schools? Then what role does that play in mitigating incidents of violence and bullying in our schools?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Sorry for the delay, member. I’m just trying to pull some information together because there are a number of positions that would be engaged in the conversation.

I agree with the member that this is so important to our system and to our kids. It’s one that always is evolving. I remember a time when I was involved - back many years ago now, it seems, before my time as an MLA - I was involved in the Canadian Association of Police Governance. We were actually talking about cyberbullying in Ottawa at the time. We were advocating on the Hill at the time, and that was a while back now, but even to see the evolution from then to now and trying to keep up with everything that our kids are exposed to that could put them at risk is something that we need to continue to invest in, and we need to continue to adjust to the changing environment.

[8:30 p.m.]

To answer his question, there are a number of positions that touch the supports that we provide for students when it comes to cyberbullying and/or violent acts or acts of aggression at schools. We have well over 200 positions across the province when it comes to our guidance counsellors who play a role in supporting any student who may be experiencing bullying, whether it’s in person or virtually.

We have a number of school nurses within the system who play that role. There are police liaison officers to help and play that role with our students, to be there for them as supports. As well, we have school psychologists and social workers on site, and we have a dedicated person in the department here who is coordinating with schools across the system and regional centres to ensure that we’re dealing with issues that may come up and arise, but also the overall education of our students to ensure that they fully understand the dangers of cyberbullying and ensuring we’re doing everything we can to support them.

TIM HOUSTON: I appreciate that response, to a certain point. Absolutely our guidance counsellors, our school nurses, our school psychologists - that creates a layer of support, a layer of preventive measures to monitor these things. Certainly, in this area that I represent, I know that some of the police liaison officers are not always attached to the schools, which is very unfortunate. I say that because I think there needs to be more of a plan to address this. It is an ongoing issue in our schools in Nova Scotia, and quite frankly, in our schools throughout North America.

Allow me to go back to my original question. The question is specific to an office that was created to prevent and monitor bullying in our schools. How much money is allocated for the Office of Safe and Inclusive Schools?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Specific to that office - one person who is leading the charge in this office - it’s $300,000 that we have in that one office specific to initiatives

around safe schools. I want to reiterate that we’ve invested $60 million in the last four years, which includes a big chunk of what our government has been trying to do to support schools, to support students around mental health and cyberbullying and initiatives around a safe environment in our schools.

I’ve mentioned a number of the hires. We’re hiring another 250 people into the system this year alone. A chunk of those will go toward supports for students. Our liaison officers played a big part in coming into our classrooms to talk to our students about bullying and the dangers of what online can be, the risks for our youth. We’re investing millions as a government to support it, and as I’ve said, we’ve invested significantly in the last four years to do it.

TIM HALMAN: Certainly, those investments are appreciated. However, we need to be aware of where those investments are going. I’m very curious about this office. As I’ve highlighted, my personal interest in this is not only as an educator but also as a parent with four children in elementary and junior high school. I’m hearing stories, as the minister will hear as well. It’s on us to make sure that those preventive measures are in place.

I’d like to know, Mr. Chair, what role this office plays - what specific role does this office play in mitigating incidents of violence and bullying and cyberbullying in our schools? It was set up following one of the absolute worst incidents in Canadian history as it relates to cyberbullying.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: The office falls under Student Services - really, Student Equity and Support Services within the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. That office has a budget that really works with our SchoolsPlus program.

A lot of the stakeholders that I’ve talked about across the system work collaboratively with the Department of Health and Wellness, with our stakeholders at the IWK, with the Department of Justice when it comes around policy. It’s not one specific task that that office is responsible for. They’re working with hundreds and hundreds of our support staff across the province.

TIM HALMAN: I appreciate the minister’s response. Are there any plans to expand the role of this position or office within that larger context, those larger supports that you’ve outlined?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Really, our investments have been on the ground in schools. This office will continue to be here to support and liaise with the many stakeholders in the community. If the question is around what expansion of programs and supports we’re going to have, we’re investing another $15 million this year in inclusive education - the total is $60 million - and another 250-plus positions in the system to support student success and student well-being in our schools. This office will still continue to play an important role under the umbrella of Student Services and Equity, but our investments are going on the ground. They’re going in schools, in communities. This year is another huge commitment by our government, based on the feedback that we’re receiving from stakeholders. These aren’t decisions that we’re making on our own here.

This office under Student Services and Equity is liaising with these stakeholders that are really helping government determine where the investments should be.

Just to finish off this question, that office will continue to play an important role, especially when it comes to liaising with the departments within government. I’ll leave it at that for now and the member can follow up [Inaudible].

TIM HALMAN: What entity within the department - what office tracks the incidents of bullying and cyberbullying and acts of violence and harassment? Who maintains that data?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Student Services and Equity actually track that information.

TIM HALMAN: What are the data on incidents of bullying last year?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: There are some data I have here. I might have to get some additional data for the member. What I can say at this point right now - we’re basing on 2019-20 and 2020-21 - and we’re basing the same months because we experienced COVID-19 toward the end of 2019-20. We saw a 17 per cent decrease in physical violence in that time span.

With regard to bullying, 2019-20 compared to 2020-21 using the same methodology around the fact that we experienced COVID-19 and the schools shut down early, we saw a 14 per cent decrease in bullying events.

TIM HALMAN: I appreciate that response. How many incidents of bullying occurred in 2019-20?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: That’s the number I’m going to have to get for you. I don’t have that in front of me, but we can see what we can pull together for you soon.

THE CHAIR: It’s time for our final COVID-19 break for the evening. We’ll resume again at 9:00 p.m. and finish off the last hour at that point.

[8:44 p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]

[9:00 p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]

THE CHAIR: Order, please. The Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply resumes.

The honourable member for Dartmouth East, with 30 minutes.

TIM HALMAN: All right, minister, the fun continues.

The minister may recall, Mr. Chair, that this week I asked a question in Question Period regarding EIBI - the Early Intensive Behavioural Intervention program. We all recognize this is a program administered by the Department of Health and Wellness. As the minister is aware, last Summer, EIBI was cut short due to the first wave of the pandemic. Over the past few months, I’m sure the minister is aware that parents have been vocal. They’ve gone to the media. They’ve gone to MLAs. They’ve raised their concerns about their children not being able to complete EIBI. There’s a real concern that they’re missing out on essential programming. Obviously, we want to make sure that they are set up to find success when they enter Primary. Does the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development know how many children were impacted by this change to EIBI?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I don’t have the statistics in front of me now when it comes to this question. The Department of Health and Wellness would have those numbers. We can try to reach out to them as well.

I want to reiterate - first I’ll say this is an important conversation to me too. I get the same question at home, as well, talking to parents and ensuring that they’re getting the supports they need as their children enter the school system. That’s why we have invested $15 million again this year in inclusive education, for a total of $60 million. We’ve hired additional autism specialists in our school system to support our students, and we’re going to continue to make those investments.

To answer you, I wish I had numbers in front of me. Sorry I don’t, but we can try to get the numbers for you.

TIM HALMAN: Minister, I encourage - definitely get those numbers. There’s an old adage in the art of education: fail to plan, plan to fail. The last thing we want to do is fail to provide the necessary supports and programming, especially when the MLA for Kings West, a former health minister, indicated in a CBC article that “the program is still meeting the needs of families in extreme circumstances, and his department says the time limit was the only way to ensure all children born in 2015 had some therapy.” That’s from a CBC News article, which I can most certainly table, Mr. Chair. Obviously, a statement like that, you can certainly see, for many families, is not very reassuring. If you read on in the article, the former Minister of Health and Wellness indicated “the education system is preparing to help the children adjust to school.”

My question is: What preparations are being made to ensure that those supports will be in place? You have a minister of the Crown who has made that commitment publicly. I’d like to know what the department is doing. Please remember, while all issues in education are serious, this is very serious.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: There are a number of steps that we take to support parents as their child is ready to enter the school system to ensure that the transition for them is a positive one and that the supports are there.

Of course, and the member would know this, as a former educator, we go though a number of supports for the students, starting, of course - we have transition meetings with the parents to talk about the needs of their child as they transition. There’s always consultation, supports that are there for the family. Development intervention services are there through the department. Speech language supports are there. Autism support staff are there to support it. All these are readily available to parents and the student upon the decision that they’re going to enter the system.

There’s no delay in those supports. They are there for them. They are there to access for families. A lot of the investments that I talked about earlier tonight - when it comes to inclusive education, we’ve hired 26 additional autism support specialists within the system to help support families. That’s just one example of the $60 million that we’re investing. Again, $15 million to share, another 200-plus staff that will help support students in the system and their families. That paints a bit of a picture of what we do as a department and as branches of the department to help support families as they enter the system.

TIM HALMAN: Just for clarity, is it correct to say that the department does not know how many new autistic students will be entering the system who have completed the six-month EIBI? The department does not know that number as of yet, is that correct?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: That’s not correct. We actually do know that. I just don’t have it with me tonight. We’ll have to provide it to the member.

TIM HALMAN: I appreciate that. Obviously, in order to adequately prepare the appropriate programming as is laid out, you need to know those numbers. You need to know the number of individuals you’re going to be providing that support for. I think that’s a very basic start line to begin with, and, certainly, as an opposition MLA, I’ll continue to monitor that. Obviously, I want to thank folks for the ongoing work that they’re doing to support all our learners.

I want to continue with the theme of student wellness and student supports being offered within our schools. On March 17^th, CBC News reported that five-year-old Bellemey DesRoche requires an injection every day at school at lunchtime for Type 1 diabetes. I have an article there, which I’ll certainly table. Under the current guidelines that were implemented in 2010, school staff in Nova Scotia can be trained to monitor blood glucose levels and supervise insulin injections. However, school staff are not responsible to be trained to administer that injection.

I understand Nova Scotia’s guidelines on this are currently under review in collaboration with Diabetes Canada and the IWK and the Nova Scotia Health Authority. Can the minister give us an update on where those things are? Obviously, this has to do with student safety, a student’s ability to function and learn. Being unable to get access to this injection will most certainly interfere with the learning process for that student. Could the minister provide us an update and what investments, what plans are being made to address that?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I follow some of the media that go on as well. I don’t have the consent, but I will say this: Any student that is in a situation where they need that kind of support, we work with the parents, we design a health plan for that student to ensure that they’re getting the supports they need, and if need be, there is somebody on site that can help with that support. We work closely with parents. In any given year, in any given time, we are always engaged with our regional centres for education across the province to ensure that if any students need that particular health support, they can get it.

[9:15 p.m.]

TIM HALMAN: Certainly, in some respects, we’ve been down this path before. I remember years ago, when I was an acting vice-principal, being told by my principal to go set up a station in the office for EpiPen delivery. I remember having to designate a specific area and having a designated individual who could administer that EpiPen for severe allergic reactions. Schools, you know, to some degree they’ve dealt with these situations before. My understanding is that British Columbia is the only province that has school staff administer insulin in these particular cases.

So I guess the question is: In terms of the plans that are being developed between the department and the various health care agencies, will teachers be administering this, or will the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development bring in outside staff to administer these supports? Could you give us an update?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Teachers will not be administering it. Qualified professionals will be administering it. We are still working with our stakeholders to determine what that is going to look like, but as I’ve already said, we design health plans for students who need them, working with their families to ensure that they get the support they need.

TIM HALMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. How much time do I have left?

THE CHAIR: You have thirteen minutes ‑ twelve and a half.

TIM HALMAN: Twelve and a half? There you go. Well, in the time we have left I’d like to discuss the links between this budget and the mandate letter ‑ the education mandate letter. Some of the things I’ve been talking about for the past number of years I see contained here and so I have to say that there are a lot of positive things here.

There’s a lot of opportunity here to really improve education. Like anything else, we want all our students to be successful and want the system to be successful and so, obviously, I wish you well in many of these endeavours. This is good stuff. Obviously, there is so much to talk about here.

I’d like to take a look at the last point on the mandate letter, which is on page 3: invest more in the Options and Opportunities program. I taught it all in Social Studies in the International Baccalaureate program, and just about every social studies subject, but I have to say that my five years in the Options and Opportunities program, being in charge of that program at Prince Andrew High School, was one of the best experiences I ever had. What an amazing program. So when I see “invest more in the Options and Opportunities program to help youth on their career paths” - yes, good. This is fantastic.

I would like to ask the minister: What investments are being made? Does it mean that there will be more spaces opened up in that program? Can the minister clarify what that means and is there anything in the budget for Options and Opportunities?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: This is one of those opportunities we have in my mandate letter that is really kind of flexible on how I want to approach it, particularly with the program, where we are constantly engaged with our partners to ensure that we are providing the spaces and as many opportunities as possible for students.

I look particularly - I kind of put my - I actually do put my old Minister of Energy and Mines hat on. I really see so much opportunity in the renewable and sustainable development side for what we can be teaching our students. I was involved with negotiating some new programs when it comes to energy efficiency, when it comes to significant investments that we’re making in our housing stock here in the province. Our solar program went from a dozen companies to almost 70 in a year. We have wait-lists, which is fantastic, across the province because we have companies that are so busy that they’re constantly looking for workers.

While I was there, we signed a new agreement with our 13 Mi’kmaw communities across Nova Scotia where we’re going to retrofit 2,400 homes over the next 10 years, which is a significant investment. I think that is such an opportunity for our Mi’kmaw students within our system. They should be doing the work in those communities. They should be the ones opening the businesses. I believe that is a huge opportunity for them. This is one of the pieces of the mandate letter that really excites me, because I think that we have our traditional industries that students are engaged in that have been longstanding parts of the program, but as we all know, this government is very serious about climate change, not only for what it means for the environment and for communities moving forward, but also for the opportunities that it presents. The agreement alone with our Mi’kmaw communities is $40 million of work.

In my time as energy minister, we made significant investments around our public housing. We expanded all of our efficiency programs to include houses that were - you know, usually the program traditionally was only approved for houses that were electric heat. Now we’ve expanded it to all heating sources. There are so many opportunities for students to learn new skills, whether it’s in some of the things I talked about or some of the traditional industries.

Really, this bullet - this important topic of the mandate letter, I kind of look at it as the sky’s the limit. Of course, we’re going to take a lot of feedback from our colleagues in the House, you included. You and I talked a little bit about this when we met. This is something that’s important to me. This is something that I really want to establish in the program because I really think this is the future.

There are going to be thousands of jobs. I’m not even talking about the big wind projects or the potential big solar projects, the community solar projects, active transportation projects. Look at what’s happening with conversations around the Atlantic Loop, something that I’ve been very public about in my time as energy minister. These are significant opportunities, really, right across the province because every community has access to renewable energy. We need to ensure that our students are the ones who are exposed to it, not only in this program but also in our curriculum. What else can we be talking about in our classrooms with students? This has big potential.

TIM HALMAN: I appreciate the very fact that you mentioned the big potential. I’ve always felt that Options and Opportunities is just getting started and I can tell you this is a great achievement of Premier John Hamm and his minister at the time. It’s great to see that, obviously, the NDP government and the Liberal government have continued with that. Certainly, though, I’d like a few more specifics. What investments in this budget are invested in Options and Opportunities? Can you outline that, Minister?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We invest $9 million in the program. The $9 million goes towards our staffing and our supports for our students.

TIM HALMAN: I’ll be looking for further investments in this program. It’s great to hear that you see this as an enormous opportunity for the youth and the economy of Nova Scotia. That’s fantastic.

With the time I have left, something very near and dear to my heart, Acadian and francophone rights. My late wife was Acadian from Clare. All four of my children, my stepchildren, attend École scolaire acadien here in east Dartmouth. It’s really critical that the department knows that there is a frustration out there among parents, among anglophone parents, about the local voice not being heard. The governance model that was brought in in 2018 really removed that. There are a lot of folks who want their voices heard.

With respect to the Acadian and francophone school board, though, we know that the promotion and protection of the language and culture of the Acadians and francophones is paramount and needs to be not only protected but promoted. Certainly, that promotion we see in the data, in the numbers. CSAP is growing exponentially, by leaps and bounds.

With respect to the mandate letter, it says: “to introduce the CSAP Act to provide the policy framework to protect the Acadian language and culture.” I encourage you to not only protect but to actively promote. Could the minister provide some information and a time frame as to when our Acadian and francophone community can expect that piece of legislation?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I apologize if I run out. I don’t how much time we have left. I’ve had the opportunity to meet with the group, both over the phone and in person. I continue to have conversations with them. I agree with the member 100 per cent when it comes to - we need to celebrate and we need to protect language and culture. There is no question about that.

We’re working on what the timeline will be. I don’t actually have that right now, but I’ve met with stakeholders. We continue to meet with them. As well, other departments - meeting with them too. Acadian Affairs is involved with it as well. We continue to talk to them. They’re a passionate group. They’ve been great to work with. I have some Acadian roots myself. It’s important to us, too. It’s a mandate letter and I really want to get it done, so we’re just working through them now.

TIM HALMAN: Tomorrow, my colleagues from the PC caucus will no doubt have a number of questions of a local nature on their schools. Obviously, I want the minister to fully understand that the issues that were brought up here today, specifically when it came to the Hargreaves and Whitley report, are all very important pieces of information. Nova Scotians want to know about their inclusion model. I hope the minister keeps in mind that there are a lot of questions around school staffing here in the HRCE, specifically in our high schools. I get a lot of questions on school infrastructure - the deferred maintenance - and the main questions that were asked here related to students. That, at the end of the day, I know we’re all agreed upon, has to be our priority each and every day: setting up our students for success.

THE CHAIR: The time for the PC caucus has expired. For the last 30 minutes, before we complete our four hours for today.

The honourable member for Dartmouth South.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Home stretch - no resolution tonight, so we’ll be back at it tomorrow at some point.

I want to pick up where we left off. We were talking about site review and school capital. With respect, I asked a pretty detailed question and the answer was, well, TIR decides. Based on everything that I have heard and discussed and researched and asked about this topic in the last three years, that is simply not accurate. Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal, of course, did the technical evaluation of the site - I understand that.

[9:30 p.m.]

I’m going to refer the minister to a press release from his department in 2019 - and I can table this, however that happens in the ether, but I promise I’ll do it - where the former minister of education talks about how the site selection is going to be so great, it’s going to take less time, and then lays out that in the case of a replacement school, the existing site will be considered first, a site review will be conducted, and if two or more sites meet the criteria, the community will be consulted.

But then at the end it goes on to say: “Under the new capital plan process, Regional Centres for Education, the Conseil scolaire acadien provincial and staff from the Departments of Education and Early Childhood Development and Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal will form a committee to review and prioritize proposed capital projects. A complete list…assigned a priority…will be provided to government for final decisions based on budget…”

That’s not that dissimilar to what used to come out of school boards. The school boards would provide a list and then the department would, presumably, send that list up the chain, and then something would get approved. It’s always been a black box from where I sit, but now it’s more of a black box because all of that happens behind layers of closed doors that not only the public, but I as an elected official, just have no access to. There’s a rolling capital plan that I can see, but in terms of decision-making, I just have no idea. In terms of community consultation, I have even less of an idea.

I want to ask the question again because I’ve been asking this question for three years - and one of these days I’m going to get a really great answer - which is: in the school site selection process, what is the public engagement part? As the minister well knows as a parent, your children and my children spend their lives in these schools. Where the school is is really important.

Now, I’m an urban MLA, but I would actually go so far as to say it’s even more important for rural Nova Scotians because proximity and transportation and all those issues are major. I think a lot of that cannot be determined by a group of people, particularly not by, I would suggest, just the transportation department in Halifax. There has to be robust community engagement, particularly as we attract new people to the province.

We’ve seen schools like Petite Rivière - we’ve seen tonnes of schools that have been slated for closure over the past several years, that have gathered the community and rallied and saved their school. In many of those cases, those communities where the schools sit have gone on to thrive. I cannot give you an example of a business park that has gone on to thrive because a school has been built in it. That’s a potshot at the Eastern Shore situation. If that’s what the community wants, that’s what the community wants. I’m not speaking against that, but we need a process.

I’m really hoping that the minister can tell me that at least there is a process being developed such that communities can have genuine, robust input into these important decisions.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I’m going to try to explain this the best I can. Feel free to jump in at any point here.

If the same site is selected that the school resides on currently, that decision is the decision, and that’s the decision. The school is going to stay there. This is where community consultation comes in. If the Department of Infrastructure and Housing comes back with multiple sites outside of the regular site, then they have to release that information to the public so the public can see that. This is all on that website I talked about earlier, with what we’re doing on the Eastern Shore. That’s when the community consultation kicks in. It’s one of the key steps in it when you get into multiple sites.

You can use any example in the province. If we’re in Sydney and we’re replacing Sydney Academy - which we’re not, just for the record. We’re not replacing Sydney Academy. If it’s that school and staying on the same site, then that’s the decision. That’s the decision made between the Department of Infrastructure and Housing and the regional centre for education and the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. When you get into multiple sites, that’s when the assessment has to go out to the public. That’s when the public has the opportunity to provide feedback before any decision is made. That’s what I have for now.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Okay. I’ll just keep asking until I find a robust strategy at the other end of my question. Also, just for the record, that’s what the Eastern Shore website has now, but that’s after there was a judicial review filed of the decision on which there was no public input.

Getting to the end of this subject, we see Tourism Nova Scotia has a campaign to bring people here because of our great epidemiology. I know where I live in Dartmouth South, but also all across the whole province, we’ve seen a massive and, actually kind of awful, spiking of real estate prices. We know those homes are being built with Toronto dollars and Alberta dollars and all that. People are coming, and a lot of those people have families.

I’m wondering, again, whether the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development is looking at that, particularly as people start to relocate into rural areas. A lot of times people - not just people from away but people from here - want to live in a town with a school and a hospital and a Main Street and a general store and a restaurant and all that stuff. Is that actually privileged in the competition there, that it’s actually really good to have schools in communities and not on highways and in business parks?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: The regional centres of education look at these projections all the time. I was involved with an announcement this past week when it came to modulars, just because based on the projections that we’re making and as population grows in certain spots, we need to be able to adjust our infrastructure to support those students until some of those new schools are built.

You are absolutely right. What we’re seeing right now across the province - and I’m seeing it at home in Cape Breton - it’s absolutely unbelievable what is happening. You are right, it is a bit scary. We’re seeing some of the values of real estate go up, but we also have lots of people moving to our communities, which is fantastic for our diversity. We have people coming from all over the place, so it’s great. I always say that our whole community at home is built on the diversity of people coming from all over the world to work at the steel plant and work in the coal mines. I have the privilege of representing Whitney Pier and Membertou in my riding, which is a pretty fantastic story. It’s really an honour for me.

In regard to schools, it is something that we need to talk about. The regional centres do it with us. We do predictions. They use population models based on what they’re seeing in communities. When it comes to the site selection, it’s a case of - again, it’s the process. If the current site fits, a decision is made there. When you get into multiple sites, it isn’t about us saying, well, we think this site is better than another site. We provide multiple sites. The community has the opportunity at that point to provide feedback on what they think. It’s based on - not just based on site, it’s based on what they want to see in their community. It’s about growth, it’s about a number of things that are important as we see the populations grow. Services will need to expand, and wants and demands will be there for people. We do look at all of that when we look at future structures.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I appreciate that answer, and, I guess, this is also for the Department of Transportation and Active Transit. It’s not a black and white thing, like someone’s going to walk into Whitney Pier and be, like, oh, there are three possible sites. There’s always discretion. I guess what I’m saying is a better example would be South Shore Nova Scotia. I would hope, and in fact I had proposed when Develop Nova Scotia came out with placemaking as one of their core functions, I said to Develop, can you be the placemaking clearing house for all of government? Can we run these decisions through a lens that talks about creating the kind of province and communities - particularly in rural Nova Scotia - that we all want and that the people who live there want?

I just throw that out there to say that I think you’d be hard pressed to say that there were very many cases when a school outside of any community is better than a school inside a community. I think our views on that have changed a lot over the last 10 or 12 years as planning has evolved, but I would hope that the department is taking that into account.

A specific question, actually, about Cape Breton - a number of years ago, the government announced a new elementary school for Glace Bay to replace Tompkins Elementary School in Reserve Mines and the former MacDonald Elementary School in Dominion. Can the minister let us know if the site has been selected for that school, and when work is expected to begin?

[9:45 p.m.]

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: The Department of Infrastructure and Housing is completing their technical assessment of sites for the school. We don’t have that back yet, but that would be Step 1. As I’ve said, if it comes back with multiple sites, we have to go through that community conversation. That will all be public to everyone. Then after that step, whenever that step is completed, we have to go to the RFP for design, which, ideally, we would do in this fiscal year.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I want to move on to child care, at the risk of continuing to repeat myself. Hopefully I’ll have some new questions and you’ll have some new answers. One of the questions that I want to ask again is about child care for essential workers during the pandemic. I am aware that the province used the federal money to keep child care centres full during the pandemic, but we were the only province that did not provide licensed child care for essential workers. Newfoundland and Labrador, P.E.I., Quebec, Ontario - the Yukon also - actually waived child care fees altogether for essential workers, in addition to providing child care.

Here, after a lack of provincial government action, Dalhousie University students volunteered to provide child care for essential workers, which, I guess, is great in the absence of anything else, but I would love to understand the decision-making process about why this wasn’t provided. I would hope that if we face that kind of situation again that we wouldn’t see a repeat of that.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We’re always engaged with our partners in determining what support we can provide, and we were during the pandemic. Something that was important to government was to keep the sector whole. We’re one of two jurisdictions that did it to ensure that workers continued to get paid and the supports were there for them so that when they were available to be reopened they were.

I guess what I can say at this point to the - of course, if we are ever in this situation again, to your question, we’ll reach out to our stakeholders. We’ll truly do whatever we can, but I am proud of the response that we did have, as a government. As I said, we’re one of only two jurisdictions that had the response and made the response that we did to ensure that we kept the sector whole though the pandemic.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Thanks, and I appreciate that the minister is answering for a former minister, but I will say that I heard from a number of essential workers in my own constituency who did not have access to organic child care for whom it was an unbelievable burden not to have that. The sector was whole, but it wasn’t open for several months, which was fine, according to Public Health guidelines, but was not fine for nurses and doctors and folks on the front line who needed to go to work.

Shifting a little bit, information released today, actually, by Stats Canada shows that 55 per cent of children under the age of six in Nova Scotia were in some form of child care in 2020. The interesting thing is that that is down from 61 per cent in 2019. We would expect it to go up - we’ve rolled out pre-Primary - but instead, it’s going down. Does the minister have any insight as to why that number is decreasing?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I really don’t want to speculate on that. That’s an important question. I have some of my own personal thoughts but I hope that you’ll ask me that tomorrow so I can get you the proper answer to it. We’re in a situation where you have - the pandemic may have played a part where people may have been home. More people have been home. You have the transition of kids into the pre-Primary program, which is not registered as child care.

I just want to get you the right answer, so if we can continue that conversation, hopefully I’ll have you for some discussions tomorrow and I’ll get you a better answer to that question.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I’ll look forward to it. Child care fees, something we’ve discussed before, but let’s come back around. We won’t get through it tonight, but tomorrow, for sure, we can pick it up.

An FOI request received by our caucus included a calculation of the funding model for family home child care providers. Their average weekly revenue was $993, their average weekly funding from the department was $187, so the shortfall is $806, so $806 to be covered by parent fees. That’s 20 per cent of the funding that’s provided by the department.

I know we’re talking to the federal government, but are there any plans to increase that 20 per cent number, in terms of funding, to be able to essentially defray parent fees, which is where the rest of the money comes from?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I don’t know how much time we have left at this point, but what I’ll say is this: As I said earlier on in the conversation in our last round, we are in negotiations for a new agreement, so that will come in short order, hopefully. Then we’ll be through that. Particularly with the providers, they set their own fees and parents can apply for subsidies if they need support. We know that we provided close to 5,000 subsidies for parents who have actually requested that support through the department, so we do spend a significant amount of resources, importantly, to those families that need that support. As I said earlier, we spend significantly on the sector, but as I’ve said, we’re in the middle of negotiations right now. I’ll be happy to update everyone when I have the opportunity to do it.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Time is disappearing before our eyes. I thank the minister for that answer. I’m glad that there’s a new agreement being ironed out and I will leave the minister with this, with lots of time to think about it because I don’t think I’ll get an answer tonight. Quebec, B.C., Alberta, Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island have all figured out how to provide greater access to more affordable child care.

To the minister’s point about subsidies, it’s not lost on us that these are available, but it is actually lost on a lot of people. Part of the reason why we advocate for a universal system is for universal access, because as soon as there’s a patchwork of grants and subsidies and applications and submissions, just tonnes of people fall away. Just naturally they do.

Last week during debate, the minister suggested that Nova Scotia wanted to be first in rolling out a universal child care program. I think the minister said that tonight. But we’re not first. We’re not even close to first. All those other provinces have figured out a way to do it. They could probably do it better, and they could certainly have a more robust program, with federal funding, if that comes to pass. In the meantime, they have taken the concrete steps required to build a universal program with lower fees and greater access and higher wages.

Can the minister comment on why we can’t start that process now, have a made-in-Nova Scotia solution, and keep the door open to conversations with federal colleagues?

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We’re very proud of the work that we’ve been able to accomplish as a government. Pre-Primary was the first step for us. It has been a huge success - 15,000 four-year-olds have been part of the program. One in four Nova Scotia children has access to early childhood learning, so we’re very proud of that, and the 900 employees that are part of our pre-Primary program now. It’s something that is going to have a huge impact for the province going forward.

I don’t disagree with the member. My mindset goes to those conversations with the sector that I’ve been having about what the future holds. Four-year-olds are in the pre-Primary program. What’s the next step for us?

We’ve made significant investments, looking at wages, looking at supports, looking at subsidies. You’re right, eventually the conversation is moving to a universal system. We want to have the conversation with our federal partners. They have been very open about what they want to do, and I think it’s important before we move forward that we have the conversation with them to see what supports are there.

I stand by that and we’re going to continue to invest in the sector. We’re going to look at every option we can because we know it’s the next evolution of child care here in the province. Pre-Primary has been a huge success. It was an important step for families in this province and we’ve got to keep looking at what the future holds.

THE CHAIR: Order, please. The time for questioning for this evening has expired. As the honourable member for Dartmouth South mentioned, we’ll be back at it again tomorrow. I can’t say same time, but same place and same station anyway.

Just for the minister’s information, the score is tied 1-1 halfway through the second period. [Laughter]

Thank you all very much. We’ll see you tomorrow. Have a great night.

[The subcommittee adjourned at 10:00 p.m.]