HALIFAX, THURSDAY, OCTOBER 12, 2017

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON SUPPLY

3:05 P.M.

CHAIRMAN

Ms. Rafah DiCostanzo

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: I’d like to call to order the Subcommittee on Supply. We are here to review the estimates of the Department of Municipal Affairs.

Resolution E16—Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $332,423,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Municipal Affairs, pursuant to the Estimate, and the business plan of the Nova Scotia Municipal Finance Corporation be approved.

MADAM CHAIRMAN: I’d like to ask the minister to start by introducing his staff and making his opening remarks.

            HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Good afternoon, Madam Chairman and members of the Legislature, my colleagues. As well, I welcome everyone who is here today to be with us. I’m honoured and happy to be here today with Deputy Minister Kelliann Dean and Darlene O’Neill, the director of finance for our department. Thank you for being with me today.

            Madam Chairman, our mandate at Municipal Affairs is to promote responsible local governance that supports healthy, vibrant, and safe communities. Our partners are the province’s 50 municipalities and the organizations that represent them, like the Union of Nova Scotia Municipalities, the Association of Municipal Administrators, and the Village Commission. Working together, we implement sound legislation and programs that support good governance, accountability, and effective planning.

            The Department of Municipal Affairs also works with municipalities and the federal government to build strong, healthy, vibrant, and sustainable communities. Municipal Affairs administers the distribution of federal and provincial funding programs through the Canada-Nova Scotia Infrastructure Secretariat. Essentially, this secretariat works to help our municipalities access necessary funding to improve their infrastructure.

            My department also administers operating and legislated grant programs. Equalization grants and grants in lieu of taxes on provincial property are legislated by the Municipal Grants Act and provide for the payment of grants to municipalities.

            With the addition in 2014 of the Emergency Management Office, my department works to enhance the safety and well-being of Nova Scotians by taking a leadership role in emergency management, planning, and response.

            The Office of the Fire Marshal also joined Municipal Affairs in 2014 and works to coordinate and facilitate the fire, fuels, and electrical safety systems of Nova Scotia. The Office of the Fire Marshal also oversees building safety, ensuring that the Nova Scotia Building Code Act and regulations reflect the latest national standards.

            Madam Chairman, the overall department budget for the Department of Municipal Affairs for 2017-18 is $332.4 million. You’ll notice that this year our departmental budget has increased by approximately $148 million. This increase is to support the Government of Canada’s Clean Water and Wastewater Fund and the Public Transportation Infrastructure Fund. It’s important to note that, under the Canadian Clean Water and Wastewater Fund, the province will recover $80 million from the federal government. Under what is also referred to as the PTIF program, the Public Transportation Infrastructure Fund, the federal government is investing $30 million this year, and the municipalities are matching that investment. In short, 40 per cent of our departmental budget is comprised of recoverable grants; 53 per cent of our departmental budget is provincial contributions to federal infrastructure projects and statutory grants to federal infrastructure projects. The remaining 7 per cent of the budget is for discretionary grants, salaries, and non-discretionary operating expenses.

            Madam Chairman, as I mentioned above, provincial and municipal governments, along with our many partners, work together to ensure a sustainable future for Nova Scotia communities. As part of that work, my department provides guidelines, resources, and advice for planning healthy, vibrant communities. To that end, this past summer I embarked on a minister’s tour of our local governments here in Nova Scotia. As part of that tour I, along with the department staff, made a visit to all 50 municipalities; met with all the current operating RENs, or Regional Enterprise Networks; attended the Regional Enterprise Network Conference; attended the AGM of the Association of Nova Scotia Villages; and met with the president of the Union of Nova Scotia Municipalities.

            The goal of my tour was twofold: to introduce myself as the new minister to the elected officials and staff that are currently working in local government and to hear first-hand about the issues, concerns, and great work that is being conducted by the municipalities, the villages, the UNSM, and the RENs. While the individual meetings consisted of conversations unique to each location, as the tour developed so did many common themes related to collaboration, connectivity, and continuing to review the Municipal Government Act.

            Madam Chairman, I know the department mandate revolves around creating innovative approaches to regional economic development, such as updating and improving the Regional Economic Network model. As a former municipal councillor, I know first-hand the hard work done by the Regional Enterprise Networks, municipalities, private businesses, and others that spur economic growth in Nova Scotia.

            The world around us is changing rapidly and profoundly, creating both challenges and opportunities. From the rise of Asia, new trade regimes, changing demographics, climate change to transformations in technology, powerful global forces are shaping our world. In Nova Scotia, we have an aging workforce, youth out-migration, particularly in our rural areas, and limited business investment in innovation and productivity. According to the 2014 One Nova Scotia report, economic growth is about changing attitudes and generating greater co-operation. It is also about innovation.

            To survive, compete, and prosper in today’s global economy, Nova Scotia companies need to be competitive and so do the regions in which they operate. It makes sense, therefore, that building our provincial economy depends very much on the financial success of municipalities and their success in working with each other. Regional Enterprise Networks are set up quite intentionally to encourage more collaborative ways of approaching economic development. They bring together business communities, the province, municipalities, and other groups to provide regional economic leadership and support small, local businesses. Regional Enterprise Networks also link the activities of municipal planning and economic development.

            As I mentioned earlier, during my tour of the province’s municipalities I had the pleasure of meeting with the Regional Enterprise Networks and hearing first-hand about some of the initiatives they are undertaking to support economic growth. For example, the Western Regional Enterprise Network launched a very successful productivity pilot which seven companies are participating in and is supported by multiple partners. This work really shows the interconnectedness of individual businesses and their overall impact on our economy.

            Another great success story from the Western and Cape Breton RENs is the Connector Program. Both of these RENs have worked with the provincial Department of Labour and Advanced Education to help provide a crucial link between employers and people looking for full-time work in the region. By facilitating these networking opportunities, they bring together qualified, skilled candidates and connect them to leaders in businesses in the community. This is really a win for all.

            The Eastern Strait Regional Enterprise Network partnered on a very interesting project with the Town of Port Hawkesbury. They launched a Start-up Port Hawkesbury that functions like a Dragon’s Den-style competition to build entrepreneurial spirit. I think that is a fantastic idea and really helps to foster an entrepreneurial culture in the area.

[3:15 p.m.]

            Another interesting project came out of the Cape Breton Regional Enterprise Network in the form of a land asset database. This really helps to foster investment in Cape Breton, as it provides essential up-to-date information for potential investors. It is the creation of tools like this through the work of our RENs that is really making a difference for business in Nova Scotia.

            The Valley REN has also developed a land asset database to help investors find the information they need to invest in the Valley and have also been doing a lot of great work bringing stakeholders in various sectors together.

The South Shore REN launched an impressive business information portal to make it easier for local businesses to access supporting programs and services. These are just a few examples of some of the great work happening in our regions.

            I want to thank our Western, South Shore, Eastern Strait, Valley, and Cape Breton Regional Enterprise Networks and others working together towards regional economic development. Recognizing the important role the Regional Enterprise Networks play, in the coming year we will work with our RENs, municipalities, and local business communities around updating and improving the Regional Enterprise Networks in our province.

            Madam Chairman, another important aspect of the Municipal Affairs mandate is to support our municipalities to ensure healthy, safe, and vibrant communities in our province. There’s no question that reliable infrastructure is the foundation for building strong communities. All three levels of government—the Government of Canada, the province, and municipalities—recognize this and know that solid infrastructure contributes to economic growth, job creation, and productivity in Nova Scotia.

            Madam Chairman, another part of our departmental mandate revolves around working with municipalities in collaboration with Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal on phase two of the federal infrastructure funding program to support municipalities in leveraging federal investment. This is referring to the Government of Canada’s recently announced Investing in Canada infrastructure program. Under this program, Infrastructure Canada will invest $180 billion over 10 years, including new programs and areas of public transit, green, social, and rural and northern communities. The Nova Scotia allocation over 12 years will be $828 million. Funding is scheduled to begin in 2018-19. My department will work with our municipal, provincial, and federal partners to ensure our province gleans the benefits of this program.

            Also, as I mentioned above, Madam Chairman, a large portion of our departmental budget this year is going toward supporting the Clean Water and Wastewater Fund, or CWWF, projects. This fund is a federal program which targets projects that will contribute to the rehabilitation of both water treatment and distribution infrastructure and existing wastewater and storm water treatment systems, collection and conveyance infrastructure, and initiatives that improve asset management system optimization and planning for future upgrades to water and wastewater systems. The CWWF federal investment will be matched between the province and the municipalities. Ultimately, 74 projects throughout Nova Scotia will lead our province towards a stronger and more sustainable future.

            In addition, Madam Chairman, I am pleased that, through the Public Transit Infrastructure Fund, the federal government is supporting public transit systems in Nova Scotia’s municipalities. My department will help administer this funding. Good public transportation provides Nova Scotians with more mobility and freedom. It gives people options to get to work, go to school, visit friends, or go to appointments. It also helps families save money. From the environmental perspective, public transit saves fuel, reduces congestion, and reduces our carbon footprint. On the economic side, public transit helps grow our economy.

            However, Madam Chairman, make no mistake, the Department of Municipal Affairs, independent of federal investment, also provides strong support for transportation infrastructure throughout Nova Scotia. As of 2013, the Sustainable Transportation Strategy shows responsibility for supporting public transit, active transportation, lower emissions, and other facets of sustainable transportation are shared among many government departments.

The main role that we play at the Department of Municipal Affairs is supporting public transit in both urban and rural areas. For many years, the province has worked with municipalities and community groups to offer a variety of public transit options for Nova Scotians in urban and rural communities. We have a total of 21 transit systems that receive funding from the province; 16 of them are run by community groups, four are run by municipalities. Together they provide almost all areas of the province with some type of public transit service.

            To be clear, these are not motor coach or shuttle services that travel longer distances; those are beyond the scope of our mandate at Municipal Affairs. The services we fund are mainly county-based and, in some cases, they span a few counties in close proximity.

            In the urban areas, transit systems tend to be fixed-route services. Four are run by municipalities. Madam Chairman, those are Halifax Transit, Transit Cape Breton in the CBRM, Kings Transit, and the Town of Yarmouth Transit. Two are run by community groups: the Strait Area Transit and the Antigonish Community Transit.

            In rural Nova Scotia, a traditional fixed-route transit system is often not economically feasible, given the relatively small populations and large geographic areas, but that doesn’t mean there’s any less need for some form of transit service. With the support from the province, people in rural communities are finding creative ways to offer transit service that meets the needs of their residents. It’s community groups that have stepped forward to develop these services to offer door-to-door transportation to local businesses, shopping, appointments, medical services, community events, and other destinations that users need to reach.

The Department of Municipal Affairs offers three programs designed to help these community groups provide service in their areas, in particular for seniors, low-income earners, and people with mobility challenges. For example, the Nova Scotia Transit Research Incentive Program provides funding to research options and to develop a plan for new transit service. Once a community group has a solid business plan, it needs vehicles. The Accessible Transportation Assistance Program provides funding to buy wheelchair-accessible vehicles or to adapt vehicles to accommodate wheelchairs. Although some funding comes from municipal sources, the province’s Community Transportation Assistance Program helps cover a portion of the operating costs for non-profit community organizations that improve transportation services for everyone, again with the focus on meeting the needs of disabled, elderly, and low-income Nova Scotians.

            For the urban services that are mainly run by municipalities, maintaining their fleets, bus shelters, and terminals are typically the priority. To address their needs, we introduced a new program in 2014-15 called the Public Transit Assistance Program. The community groups that we support do a tremendous job to establish their transit services and deserve to be recognized for their initiative to provide these services for rural populations. I’d like to note that we also have a close working relationship with the Rural Transportation Association which represents these community transit organizations.

            In addition, Madam Chairman, the federal gas tax funding, which is transferred from the Government of Canada to Nova Scotia municipalities via my department, can be spent on public transit. Further to the investments in transportation, the province also supports other types of infrastructure throughout Nova Scotia.

            Through the Provincial Capital Assistance Program, we support municipal water supply, sewage disposal, and solid waste infrastructure; and through the Flood Risk Infrastructure Investment Program, we make investments to reduce flood risk and community vulnerability. Over the next year we will continue to provide support to all of these programs and help our municipalities build solid, reliable infrastructure across our province.

            Now, Madam Chairman, I would like to turn our attention to the work done by the Office of the Fire Marshal. The Office of the Fire Marshal oversees fire safety for the province, advising various levels of government on fire-related matters. The office also oversees building safety, ensuring that the Nova Scotia Building Code Act and Regulations reflect the latest national standards. In this past year, the province worked with the Union of Nova Scotia Municipalities, Association of Municipal Administrators, and the Fire Services Association to respond to a report into fire services in the province.

            Madam Chairman, our society is changing and many volunteer organizations are finding it a challenge to recruit and retain volunteers. Fire departments are no exception. They also identified issues with governance, organizational structure, and the funding model. The Office of the Fire Marshal will continue to work with the fire service and municipalities to strengthen these important services. This work is a core priority for the upcoming year.

            Another way the province supports important services in communities is through the Emergency Services Provider Fund. This fund, managed by the Office of the Fire Marshal, provides $500,000 annually to hazardous material teams, ground search and rescue organizations, and fire departments for safety equipment. These grants, to a maximum of $20,000, go to communities throughout the province to help their first responders stay safe. In the near future, I will be announcing the recipients of the Emergency Services Provider Fund for 2017-18.

            Madam Chairman, this is Fire Prevention Week, and I want to highlight that every second counts during a fire. Last year, 24 people were injured and seven died as a result of fires. Any number is too many. I encourage all Nova Scotians to refer to information on the Office of the Fire Marshal website and to make sure they have a safety plan.

            Madam Speaker, while we are on the subject of safety, I would like to turn our attention to the Emergency Management Office. The mandate of the Emergency Management Office is to enhance the safety and well-being of Nova Scotians through innovative, collaborative, and integrated emergency planning and response.

            In times of emergency, municipalities lead the response. The Emergency Management Act requires every municipality in the province to have an emergency management coordinator and to have an emergency plan.

            EMO supports municipalities in developing and reviewing the plan, in carrying out exercises to test the plan, and in training key staff in emergency response. In times of emergency, EMO opens the provincial coordination centre to bring together any number of government and private organizations that may be needed to support local response and recovery. EMO coordinates identifying the needs and risks and finding and using the necessary resources to resolve issues and help all Nova Scotians stay safe.

            A year ago, Madam Chairman, before becoming minister of this department, I saw the work of EMO first-hand in the response to the Cape Breton floods. These floods were devastating. Many families lost everything, and hundreds more faced damages to their homes and their belongings. The province contributed $500,000 in immediate humanitarian aid and provided accommodations and meals to the families displaced from their homes.

            Just days after the event, with the support of the Minister of Public Safety Canada, Nova Scotia announced the start of the Disaster Financial Assistance Program. These programs normally begin three months after a disaster but, given the magnitude of the damage and the need in the community, we began that process right away.

            We also eliminated the $1,000 deductible and raised the program’s cap from $80,000 to market value. Madam Chairman, Disaster Financial Assistance is a federally-provincially shared program designed to help home owners, non-profit organizations, and small businesses that have sustained uninsurable damages during a disaster. To date, we have processed 1,185 applications and have completed 87 per cent of the claims, disbursing nearly $14 million just through Disaster Financial Assistance. That does not include the funds the province has spent on repairing schools, roads, and other infrastructure in the Cape Breton Regional Municipality.

[3:30 p.m.]

            I know there are a few flood victims who feel the province could have given more financial assistance, and I want to speak to that for a moment. As a taxpayer-funded program, Disaster Financial Assistance cannot replace everything the families lost. It gives people the basic things they need to start rebuilding their lives: a safe home and necessities such as furniture, appliances, clothing, and supplies.

            Madam Chairman, I want to thank the many organizations and the levels of government that participated in the Cape Breton flood response. CBRM first responders evacuated homes and brought many people to safety in rapidly rising floodwaters. They put themselves at risk to help their neighbours. Thanks to their efforts there are no deaths or serious injuries. Events to our south in recent weeks have shown us that the results could have been much different.

            I want to thank the staff at Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal, Community Services, Health and Wellness, Internal Services, Environment, and any other provincial department for supporting the recovery effort. We owe a major debt of gratitude to the United Way of Cape Breton, the Salvation Army, Samaritan’s Purse, and the countless local churches and charitable organizations that helped residents in their time of need.

            Finally, Madam Chairman, thanks should go out to the staff at EMO. I’m proud of the work that they have done to process claims as quickly and as efficiently as possible with exemplary compassion and care. They will continue to work diligently until each claim is complete.

            Madam Chairman, we just don’t know when or where the next disaster could strike, so the Emergency Management Office will continue its focus on helping Nova Scotians to prepare for emergencies. In addition to governments and communities planning for emergencies, it’s important for each of us to take personal responsibility to be prepared. Everyone needs to know the risks, have an emergency plan and emergency kit with enough food, water, and essential supplies for 72 hours. The Emergency Management Office website has resources in English, French, Mi'kmaq, and Arabic on how to prepare for emergencies and what items to put in your emergency kit.

            Madam Chairman, ensuring that we are able to deliver on our mandate requires an innovative, nimble, and dedicated team that delivers its best each day. I want to acknowledge and thank every member of the Municipal Affairs team for their ongoing work to serve the citizens of Nova Scotia. I look forward to working with our dedicated staff in the coming year as we continue to advance our municipal modernization mandate, create a legislative environment that fosters business growth and a strong economy, help keep Nova Scotians safe, and undertake the responsible and efficient management of financial resources. With the Deputy and Darlene’s assistance, I will be pleased to answer any questions you may have about the department’s estimates and operations. Madam Chairman, I look forward to the questions from my colleagues. Thank you.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Minister. I will turn it now to the Progressive Conservatives and Mr. Johns.

            MR. BRAD JOHNS: Thank you very much, Madam Chairman and, through you, to the minister. Minister, thank you very much for your remarks. I had a number of questions. I have a number more now, so I don’t know if that was a good or bad thing, but we could start going through them and see.

            In your remarks one of the things you were discussing was in regard to the infrastructure funds that are coming federally. I know that in the recent past—I believe it was just in the last year or so—the federal government changed the way that they actually are funding those infrastructure grants. Previously, I believe, the funds were allocated one-third, one-third, one-third—one by province—one-third municipal, one-third federal, and one-third provincial. I think the feds changed their one-third share from 50 per cent down to 40 per cent. I think municipal units across the province were really hoping that the province was going to, and I think that the feds were hoping that the province would, bump their share up to offset that. I don’t believe that happened. Is there a plan to look at—with the new monies coming, is it one-third, one-third, one-third, or is it following suit to what it was previously? And, if so, if it does continue the way it previously was funded, is the province going to bump up that one-third share?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you, Member, for the question. At this point, we’re still in negotiation. I heard that on tour from the municipalities looking at what that breakdown would be. We are taking all of that feedback that we have received from municipalities. That was a theme that came up in a few communities. We’re still negotiating that with our colleagues with Transportation and with Infrastructure Canada. We will be bringing that up in our conversations with them.

            MR. JOHNS: I think the majority of the municipal units across the province would much prefer to see us, if we can negotiate somehow, to go back to that one-third, one-third, one-third. It’s what they knew, and I think the changes threw people off a little bit.

            In your opening remarks, you talked quite a bit about the RENs across the province. The terminology “REN” is new for me, having not been involved in politics for the last six or eight months. I’m curious to know what the difference between the previous RDAs and the current RENs is. Is there a significant difference between those besides terminology?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I guess some of the biggest differences with the RENs compared to your old economic models is that they’re privately led. There’s a larger transparency component to it. The RENs are built on breaking down those more traditional boundaries that existed within the old economic model.

            I go back to Cape Breton for my example. I was involved with the REN at home before I became an MLA. I was involved with the tech sector. In Cape Breton, we have been identified as a very significant growth sector in technology and tech start-ups. The REN allowed us to be part of that. They broke down those traditional barriers. Instead of just dealing within the CBRM, we were communicating with the private sector in Inverness. We were connecting with tech companies in Port Hawkesbury, where you’re seeing this whole idea of the Start-up Port Hawkesbury model.

            From my experience, the REN really broke down those traditional barriers. Where government was the lead in the past, the private sector is leading the charge. You’re seeing stronger partnerships within the private sector, government, and community organizations. It’s a model that’s been working. As I said, I had my own experience with the REN in Cape Breton and some of the projects they’ve been involved with.

            We’re seeing that support right across the province. We had our REN conference in Baddeck about a month and a half ago. We had the expectation of 80 delegates, and we had closer to 100. People are really buying into this model, and our mandate is clear to strengthen that model, try to work to enhance RENs across the province. If that answers your question, sir. That’s the biggest thing I’ve seen: moving away from the traditional economic model; bringing the private sector in more to lead the charge; providing more transparency to the process as we distribute our funds; and taking those traditional municipal lines that divided communities and breaking them down to say, for example, that Inverness and Richmond County need to work together. There’s common good there. There are common aspirations for that network, to see us all succeed.

            MR. JOHNS: The RENs are currently receiving funds through the province the same way that the RDAs used to. I didn’t see a breakdown. Could you provide me with the actual dollar amount that they receive?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: We provide $1.8 million overall to the REN network. I can give you a bit of a breakdown. There is a municipal contribution that is involved with that as well; municipalities also contribute to these REN models. If you want some breakdown, the numbers? The Western REN: our contribution was $277,260; the municipal contribution was matched at the same for a total amount of $554,520. The South Shore REN: there’s a provincial contribution of $232,500, matched by the municipality, for a total of $465,000. The Eastern Strait REN has a provincial contribution of $177,430, matched by the municipality, for a total of $354,860. The Valley REN has a provincial contribution of $277,611, matched by the municipalities, for a total of $555,222. The Cape Breton REN has a provincial contribution of $300,000, matched by the municipalities, for a total of a $600,000 budget.

            MR. JOHNS: Are there RENs specific to the HRM area that you know of?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: At this point, there is not a specific REN for the Halifax area, but we do a lot of work with the Halifax Partnership. They provide a lot of the economic activity in the community here, so we have a strong relationship with the Halifax Partnership to help provide some of those services to the businesses in this area.

            MR. JOHNS: So RENs are involved with regional planning as well for the municipalities? Do they play a role in that as well?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Not from a municipal planning strategy perspective, but from an economic planning perspective. In Cape Breton, for example, they developed that asset program. From an economic perspective, they’re involved with planning and trying to support local businesses but, from a municipal planning strategy, the RENs are not.

            MR. JOHNS: I was confused. That’s what I assumed—that it was more from an economic—but it wasn’t clear. That was it on RENs.

            I’m curious to know, in addition to funding that the province is providing currently for transit, is there funding available for—you touched on it in opening remarks in regard to alternate programs, and I am familiar with one locally, which would be Go Rider, and there’s a few other ones—is there funding in addition to that, for bikeways or more eco-friendly types of transportation?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Through our department, as I said in my remarks, we provide funding to support a number of different initiatives. One of the most important ones for us is providing funds to help communities access vehicles to support mobility challenges and wheelchairs.

Specifically, when it comes to bike trails, we do not do that. But it would be through Communities, Culture and Heritage—that would be one example, I believe; we can clarify for you. There are the active transportation strategies that municipalities are engaged with with the province; I believe it’s through CCH. But those are the programs that we were able to implement. Projects in Cape Breton to connect CBU to the mall, to the Glace Bay highway, that would be that department.

            For us, specifically, we work with our federal partners in administering funds through the federal transportation infrastructure program and, of course, the programs we provide to help communities that are interested in researching possible transportation routes for them and to support Nova Scotians and communities that want to provide more transportation options for Nova Scotians with disabilities.

[3:45 p.m.]

            MR. JOHNS: I’m sorry, I missed the number. Can you go over again what the amount that’s allocated in this budget directly towards the Nova Scotia Transit Assist Program was? I’m looking for the amount that is allocated in this budget toward the Nova Scotia Transit Assist Program.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Specific to that program, it’s $151,000.

            MR. JOHNS: And the maximum amount that each municipality or each program can access through that is?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I don’t have the exact maximum, but I will absolutely get you that information.

            MR. JOHNS: I’m quite happy with any other questions that staff may not necessarily have an answer with right now, as long as they can get it forwarded to me in the next day or so that would be excellent, thank you.

            In regard to EMO, I did note the other day in the Legislature in regard to the $17 million, and that most likely being for Cape Breton. One of my questions is, given some of the climate changes that we’re currently seeing—and this is specific to EMO—whether it be the fires out west, the hurricanes down south, or so many significant changes in the weather, and the fact that what once was considered to be a one-in-100-year flood is now occurring much more frequently than that, I’m wondering if the amount of money that’s allocated to EMO to deal with those things is enough money.

            If I can ask a multi-layered question: Is there enough money that’s allocated there? And, is there a contingency fund of any type set up or, when a disaster does occur, is that just something that comes through the capital budget? Where does that $17 million, in this case last year, from where does that extra amount come? I know that was significantly—almost 12 times—what I think was budgeted for last year.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: It’s kind of a two-part answer for you. A bit of it is the philosophy of EMO; and then I might go back to my colleagues to get you more specifics on the numbers.

            What we learned in Cape Breton through that entire process was the importance of planning. Outside of any monetary value, the biggest role that EMO plays in these communities is to help communities establish and develop a plan with a coordinator in place. We’re constantly monitoring weather events. We’re in constant contact with the national weather representatives. We’re constantly preparing for this.

            You’re very correct: we have climate change. We’ve seen more events like this. From our perspective, we’re constantly in communication with our municipalities to ensure that we’re all prepared in the event of a disaster. We hope it never happens, but we can’t say that it won’t. As you said, this was a 100-year—some people called the Cape Breton storm a 300-year storm. It’s been called a number of different—it has been used in a couple of different ways. But, most importantly, what we saw during that event was that we were prepared.

            When that rain started, nobody predicted that we were going to receive 220 millimetres of rain in 12 hours. The forecast for the day, I think, believed it was 70 millimetres to 80 millimetres of rain. That was something that is common for our part of the province at this time of year. We have seen some localized overland flooding in the past, but nobody was prepared for the amount of rain that came down.

            As the day progressed, and as we saw the severity of what was happening, the first responders in our community and the CBRM local government - I can’t say enough about their leadership - went into action. Our few people went into action. Our provincial coordination centre was activated. We had no loss of life. We had no serious injuries. Our first responders—our fire, our police, and our EHS - were on call. There were 300 emergency calls that day in a community under 100,000 people. It was very significant.

            I know my local constituency office - we went in to open that day because we were one of the few places in Sydney that had power. We were constantly trying to support people that day as well.

            Again, it goes back to that planning that we do that is so critical, that EMO plays in helping to develop those plans to be able to coordinate all of those resources as quickly as we did that day to support families all across the CBRM. Specifically, I always go back to the most impacted area, in my neighbourhood. Planning is really key. It was key in how we launched the emergency response in Cape Breton and how we responded to other events that have happened throughout Nova Scotia, as we saw with the drought on the other side of the province last year as well. I should also mention, along with the coordination of our first responders, there’s also coordination and strong relationships with Nova Scotia Power and other organizations outside of the government umbrella that we work with to ensure that communication is strong and that we can all respond quickly. That’s first and foremost.

            When it comes to the financial piece, we took a number of steps to help support families. That process, first and foremost, is about making sure people are safe, and it’s about ensuring that the supports are on the ground, supports for families to ensure safety during the event and in the aftermath. I believe we have done an excellent job of doing that, and credit goes to our first responders.

            The financial piece is really driven by the federal government. For us, we needed to ensure that the Disaster Financial Assistance program was launched as quickly as possible. It’s very difficult in the first day after the storm to determine the real severity. We knew homes were flooded. We knew that it could be to a very serious extent, but we never really had a chance to see. In the aftermath, everybody is just trying to recoup and determine what the next step is.

            When we got into those neighbourhoods and we specifically got into that area, we saw the severity of what was happening. It was total loss. It was total loss for that neighbourhood. It was devastating to walk into those homes and to see people’s lives destroyed, to see a school destroyed, to see our local church destroyed, to see all of our public infrastructure under water. That’s when we started really seeing the severity of the situation.

            Traditionally, the Disaster Financial Assistance program was $80,000. Credit to staff, we knew right away that $80,000 wasn’t going to do it, that $80,000 would have left all of those families in financial ruin. Then we moved the cap to $200,000. As we moved the cap to $200,000, at that point we assumed that that would reflect the severity of the situation. But, as we moved forward, we realized that some of those homes in that area were going to be above that, so then we moved to market value. This was all done within days. We launched the Disaster Financial Assistance program within days of the event. I would argue that’s one of the fastest it has ever been launched in the country.

            As I said, generally it takes about three months for this program to roll out. I’ve got to give a lot of credit to Premier McNeil because he came into those neighbourhoods. He came with me to see those families and he left there saying, we need a plan and we need it quick. So, we launched the Disaster Financial Assistance program with our federal counterparts in Minister Goodale’s office. It was incredible throughout this entire process with our local MPs to ensure he was down within three days of the event to put it in perspective, working with us to make sure the program was launched and, not only that it was launched, but that it met the severity of the situation.

            We launched that within days. We also launched the $500,000 in humanitarian aid essentially the day after the event because we knew people needed to eat, we knew people couldn’t access—they lost their clothes, they lost their belongings, they needed all aspects of life. We were able to move quick.

I’m saying all this because I can stand here in my place today saying every one of those families signed-off on Disaster Financial Assistance. Every one of those families have a new home. They decided to buy another one; one has decided to build a new home; and some have decided that they’re just going to downsize, and that’s fine, too. The most important thing was their well-being, to ensure that they could rebuild, that in a very traumatic time, when families were dealing with total loss, that all levels of government stepped up to support those families.

            I say all of this because, essentially, it’s about planning. It’s about being able to move quickly, having a proper plan in place to support any event that happens in your community. I’m very proud of the work that everyone has done to get to this point.

            We still have some work to do. We’re $14 million on the 1,185 applications. As I said in my opening remarks, that doesn’t include the damage that was caused to road infrastructure, that doesn’t include the costs associated with the remediation of Brooklyn Elementary - and Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal are involved with that­ - so we still have some work to do. Most importantly, through all of it, we planned. Our EMO people planned. They had a plan in place and, when disaster struck, they activated it and, boy, did they ever activate it. I believe they saved lives. They protected our community. Our staff, in coordination with the federal government, launched a program that people could apply for days after the event. We were receiving applications—we had people coming into our constituency­ - 48 hours after the event, and in my hand I had a form that people could apply for. People have accessed money. We’ve been able to help people really rebuild after it.

I think a lot of lessons have been learned in that process. Any community across this country, moving forward, can look at this department, they can look at the response from our first responders and how we rolled out the Disaster Financial Assistance program and they can learn a lot about coordination, partnership, and determination to support people.

            We still have a lot of work to do. The financial aspect of this—there’s certain aspects that we have to follow when it comes to the DFAA program. It’s a federal program. We administer it. We help set the direction and provide the severity of the situation, and the federal government really responded in this case to help us. They did.

            MR. JOHNS: Having been on Halifax Regional Council through Hurricane Juan, White Juan, September 11^th—all those three things—I certainly have learned that when emergencies occur people don’t just look to the emergency service personnel, they do look at elected officials and anyone else who can help them. I do think that the best laid plans—you can’t plan for everything. Flexibility is important. I certainly commend everyone involved in a quick response there, particularly in regard to the cap.

            Continuing with EMO, recently we had an issue that affected Nova Scotia and parts of New Brunswick and P.E.I. where one of the phone providers lost service for a time being and that had some significant impacts to residents across this province. Can you tell me, were there any lessons learned? Did that highlight anything with regard to EMO and the way that we’re looking at doing things? What adjustments were made because of that in this case? I think we were fortunate that it was just one service provider. My understanding is they hit a fibre op line or something. It could have been all service providers. What did we learn with regards to that - anything?

[4:00 p.m.]

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Just to give a little bit of context on that day—I was at a meeting at the local university, and the president looked at me when he got a message saying that communications were down. Our first response to that—because it was a very serious situation that we were very concerned about—was to ensure that 911 was still operational, which it was. That was our first step.

            You’re correct, there were actually two cable breaks. There was one in New Brunswick and one in Quebec. It was what they considered a perfect storm for their telecommunications.

            Of course, we’re very concerned when something like that happens. We’ve had multiple follow-up meetings with Bell because they’re regulated by the feds but, in saying that, we wanted to ensure that our 911 capability was there that day. It was. I was on the phone call with Bell that afternoon when that happened. They will make some recommendations to us. With any organization, with EMO, whether it’s one of the telecommunications providers or whether it’s Nova Scotia Power, we keep strong relationships with them to ensure that we’re all working in conjunction, that as we provide services like 911 and other services we make sure Nova Scotians are safe.

            MR. JOHNS: One of the things that it did highlight for me is, regardless of how forward we go in technology, ham radio operators and stuff like that still play or will play a significant role in a major emergency situation. In most cases, I believe, it’s a volunteer network, but do we fund or do we do anything to encourage that as an alternate telecommunications system?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: At this point I wouldn’t be able to answer that directly. The most important thing is that we had a major outage there that day. There were commitments made by all parties to ensure that we’ll do whatever we can to make sure that doesn’t happen again. As we said, it was a “perfect storm” situation. You had two cable lines that were cut, and for us it was ensuring that our 911 capability was still there. We always are looking at options that can enhance our communications with Nova Scotians. We utilize our social media to the best of our ability. We look at other avenues to make sure that we get messages out and work with our municipalities to get messages out to the communities.

            I don’t have a direct answer to your question, but I can assure you that EMO plays a very significant role in building those relationships and ensuring that infrastructure is in place to help support some of the things that we do. We’ve seen a couple issues on the floor of the House. We were talking about cell phone outages in Framboise with your colleague from Cape Breton-Richmond. I’ve had conversations with MLA d’Entremont about some concerns that he had in his area about 911. That’s not our jurisdiction. That’s regulated by the CRTC but, in saying that, we’re always interested and we want to do whatever we can to support and make sure that we follow up with organizations on your behalf as an elected representative and on behalf of all Nova Scotians.

            MR. JOHNS: I do think that EMO is so important. Unfortunately, we live in a world of global instabilities right now and with technologies - EMPs and the potential discussions that are going on - I think EMO not only plays a bigger role with regard to climate change, the environment and the environmental changes we’re seeing but also based on the global instabilities.

I noted that you were talking about not wanting to understate the need for residents to be aware to take some personal responsibility for themselves, to have 72 hours of water and all those kinds of things. A number of years ago there was a little pamphlet that EMO brought out that highlighted what residents needed to do. I believe that came out just after Hurricane Juan. Are there any new initiatives to ensure that residents do start taking personal responsibility for themselves?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I don’t have a specific program or pamphlet that I can discuss. There are a number of initiatives through the department that we do to try to encourage families to have a plan. We see it this week. The Fire Marshal’s Office gives out information on tips, especially the holiday tips when it comes to protecting your house against fire. The theme this year is “Having a Plan,” to ensure that your family has that conversation, in the event of an emergency, about what to do.

            From an EMO perspective, we’re constantly in contact with our municipalities that have a number of initiatives that they operate through their local fire departments in their first responders with their police to protect people not only in their homes but in their communities. We continue to build those strong relationships and have those strong relationships with all municipalities across the province and their first responders.

            There are public education pieces that we do on our website. You can go to our EMO website and there is information there. In the event of a disaster we put a lot of information on there, outside of just having a plan. That’s where people can access forms and information and have questions answered about any specific areas. We do a lot on social media as well. During an event and leading up to an event, we try to do whatever we can to communicate with Nova Scotians.

            MR. JOHNS: If possible, Mr. Minister, at some point in time would staff be able to forward to me what the dollar amount is that we are investing into that type of initiative to make sure people are aware of what’s going on?

            The Fire Marshal - that leads us into the next thing in the remarks here. You had said that there were $500,000 for the EMS Service Fund, $20,000 maximum grants. I’m curious to know, is that per application or is it per municipality? Can one municipality apply for various projects of $20,000, or is it an allocation of up to $20,000 per municipality?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: The maximum is $20,000, but you can have multiple applications come from a municipality. I don’t have the list in front of me. You’ll hear the announcement. I’ve seen in the past, too, where multiple grants have been awarded to certain municipalities because different fire departments can apply; there’s different organizations that will apply for that funding.

            I think that’s important because we do our best to ensure that all communities have an opportunity to apply. I look forward to announcing those. I can tell you that they are scattered right across the province, and we may actually see in those instances where there’s—I know in the CBRM there’s more than one, and there may be some in other parts of the province. They are scattered all across ridings. As we know, some volunteer fire departments represent multiple communities, so we don’t want to deter them from applying. You’ll see that on the list—that the maximum is $20,000—but multiple applications can be submitted from communities.

            MR. JOHNS: In regard to volunteer recruitment, as you mentioned in your opening remarks, I certainly agree that recruitment of volunteers across the province is becoming more and more challenging. Once upon a time, your volunteer fire department was the kind of the place where the guys all went on Friday night to hang out and play darts or whatever. I think that, today, that’s not the case. They’re much, much more professional. Being a volunteer, the expectation is that it’s a job even though it’s volunteer, and there’s a very high expectation for a number of reasons. As well, with some of the challenges that families are facing today - most times, two partners are working and finances are harder to come by - people don’t have the same time availability to be able to volunteer.

            I know that this is a huge issue in rural parts of the province where they rely almost solidly on volunteer fire departments. They don’t necessarily have composite fire departments in rural parts of Nova Scotia. Is there anything that the Fire Marshal or your department is doing directly that is helping to encourage recruitment? I may have missed that you mentioned it or not, but is there an actual amount that’s allocated through the Fire Marshal to assist with recruitment?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I’m glad we had the opportunity to have the conversation on the floor of the House as well, and I appreciate the question that you offered. As all of the MLAs know to assist to assist and your comments leading into the question are correct - the work that volunteer fire departments do in our communities is really incredible. Outside of the important role they play in protecting our community - and not just volunteer fire departments, for that matter, but other emergency management organizations such as ground search and rescue—outside of the very important role of protecting our communities, their willingness to go out to protect all of us in the event of an emergency or fire - they’re role models in our community. Youth look up to them. They fundraise to support charity organizations. Their halls are used to support numerous organizations that in some communities wouldn’t have a facility if it wasn’t for their volunteer fire department.

            I don’t have an exact dollar amount for you but, outside the funds that we provide for equipment, we also provide funds for training for organizations that provide fire services in the community. For example, the Firefighter School in Waverley—we provide funding for that. I’m just looking at a number here. Last year, our amount was $1 million. That was through the Emergency Services Provider Fund. That gives you a context of some of the dollar amounts that we’re providing to help support equipment training for volunteer fire services.

            Another number I’ll give you, too, is the Firefighter School grant; last year it was $190,000. That was the dollar amount that we provided for funding. That’s the budget we have this year as well.

            MR. JOHNS: I do apologize, through you Madam Chairman, to the minister and to staff. I find that some of the line of questioning I’m taking, this process, provincially, for me, being new. In addition to the budget booklet, I did get off the website the Public Accounts book budget. Unfortunately for me, when I was over in the city, our book was this thick, and it literally had a line-by-line breakdown of the entire systems. I know that this isn’t that detailed.

[4:15 p.m.]

            One of my questions—and maybe after this, Minister, you and I can have a quick chat—but I would be interested to see if there’s a breakdown, further than what’s listed, that answers some of these. Some of these questions I may not have asked because I could have probably seen them in the book This one is not as detailed, so it’s hard for me.

            Just going back to the Fire Marshal, there was funding allocated towards the school and training but, if you could just confirm—and it doesn’t have to be right now—what the allocation was for recruitment, to try to address the issue in recruitment.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: We can get back to you on it. I would say part of that recruitment would be the funding that we provide to the Fire School grant. That’s the training piece that we help to fund, to ensure that our fire services and our members have adequate training. You and I can continue to have this conversation afterward, if we need to confirm any more numbers.

            MR. JOHNS: I’m fine with that, thank you.

            Those were just the questions that I got from your opening remarks. I apologize. Let’s go into some of the questions that I had from reviewing the estimates that were in front of me. There were a couple of questions I wasn’t sure about. Under the “Other” category, there is a budgeted amount of $107,000; this would be on page 229 under “Other”; it’s the first line item there. It’s $107,000 that is listed to a numbered company.

I wanted to see what that was, so I looked up the numbered company. Although a numbered company, it’s the same owner and operator and same thing as the third item down on the list. So, it seems that’s a total of $136,000, in two different line items, gone to the same company for investigation services.

            I went back to the 2016 one, just to see if this was a recurring charge, and it’s not. I’m just curious to know if either the minister or staff would be able to explain exactly what the $136,000 was for.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: That is directly associated with the flood. That’s the inspections and the assessments that were done in the community in the aftermath of the flood to determine the severity of the destruction of the homes and the damage to the homes in Sydney and surrounding area. That’s that number. That’s why you didn’t see it the year before. That’s what it is.

            MR. JOHNS: That’s perfect - Action Investigations. Thank you. To follow up on that, I don’t understand this - this may be a question more for staff than the minister; the minister may be able to answer this. As I’m reviewing this, I notice there are a lot of transfers in, transfers out and transfers to other departments. It confused me. I notice there is a transfer of $638,000 to the Department of Justice. There’s quite a few of them. I was just curious why those exist.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: The quicker answer - you and I can talk about it further on—is that there are a number of things that we will do in our department – services - for other departments. If you see a transfer for Justice, the number for Justice, that would have been work that we would have completed for Justice; we have to reflect that on our books. Some of the other transfers that we look at as well - I used the example of the community infrastructure grant that used to be under our department and that is now with CCH. That would have been in and out because we transferred that from our department to CCH last year; that would be another example. The RCMP billings for 911 are something else that we would show on our books. That’s probably why you’re seeing some of the in and out. Some of the other federal infrastructure programs, too, a lot of that money is in and out as well because we’re administering funds for the federal government on behalf of communities.

            MR. JOHNS: In some cases, as I said, this is new for me. It’s a learning experience, so I appreciate your indulgence in answering some of these for me. The other question I had was a line item of “fringe benefits.” It’s up by $25,000. I’m wondering what the definition of “fringe benefit” is, and why that’s up this year.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Essentially, what that represents is your pension, your medical, your benefits, long-term disability. For an individual, that would be a smaller amount but, when you start adding the size of our department, that’s why you’re seeing the increase. You’re just seeing an increase in rates.

            MR. JOHNS: Just a suggestion —when I see “fringe benefits,” I perk right up. I’m sure any resident at home who sees “fringe benefits” perks right up. It may be really good to just say “benefits”—“staff benefits.” It’s not as cryptic.

            In regard to staff, I noticed that on page 18.3 of the Opportunities for Growth budget book, there is a new amount allocated this year that wasn’t there before. It’s a million dollars. It’s under “Program and Services.” I’m curious what that is.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: It doesn’t represent an increase in the budget. Essentially, the department created a new corporate division to look at some more strategic initiatives with the department. We’ve moved some staff into that area. I believe we transferred in a full-time employee from another department within government into Municipal Affairs. That’s what you’re seeing in those numbers. It’s existing staff.

            MR. JOHNS: Alright, thank you.

MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Just a comment: I’m also new. The word “fringe”? You wouldn’t have asked that question, so I guess that’s why they keep that word in there.

            MR. JOHNS: I know I have my 10 minutes and we’ll go to the other Party, and I’ll be back. I do want to say that you and I have had a relatively good working relationship since we’ve come on. I do appreciate your openness and frankness to answer all and any questions whenever I’ve brought them forward to you, as a Critic. I do appreciate that.

            Having gone through this process now, hopefully maybe next year—if we both have the same portfolio position area—we’d be able to sit down with staff prior to some of this because I think some of these questions staff could probably answer for me, and we wouldn’t have to spend the time to do it here.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I appreciate the relationship that we’ve been able to establish as well. When I look at Municipal Affairs, and you are a former councillor yourself, as I am, I have a deep appreciation, as you do, and we’ve had these conversations. For the work that local government does, I think people don’t realize. I always go back to the elected experience: you are the front line in that job. They take a lot of calls that have absolutely nothing to do with the position that they hold, but they do it because they love their communities.

            I’ve had that opportunity to see that first-hand, travelling across the province. The best move I ever made was doing that tour - I’ll say that to this day - because it really helps us to learn what communities’ wants, needs and challenges are. It also helps me set some direction. I’ve said that publicly, that I want to be as transparent and as accessible as possible in this role. With this department it’s important - with every department, it’s important but I’ll talk specifically about this one, especially as it relates to the safety and well-being of our communities - to make sure that with all MLAs, regardless of political stripe and regardless of on what side of the House we sit, we establish those relationships so that, when something takes place, you understand the process that EMO goes through. You and I can have conversations to ensure that, if it is something that is affecting Nova Scotians, whether it’s not in the area or in the area they represent, they have all the information possible, so you can help us in making informed decisions to protect the people we all represent.

            I appreciate your questions. This is very new for me, too, so it’s a learning experience for me. As I’ve always said to you, I want to ensure that, if you have any questions about anything at all, we can do our very best to provide the information to you and all MLAs. Thank you for the question.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Mr. Johns, and you have five minutes left.

            MR. JOHNS: For my last five minutes - and I will let the minister know I still have a lot - it’s somewhat important to me to talk and have a discussion about recent legislation and discussions with cap and trade. I’m curious to know whether or not the minister feels that the cap and trade legislation, whether or not that bill, will have any effects on the operating budgets of municipalities, and what implications that bill is going to have on municipalities across the province.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I can say at this point that I’m very proud of the work my colleague, Mr. Rankin, has done on bringing that legislation forward. I believe in that legislation. I believe it’s going to protect the pocketbooks of Nova Scotia. It also builds on the strength of the work Nova Scotians have done already in reducing greenhouse gas and doing our part to ensure that we protect the environment to the best of our ability. We’ve spent a while talking about the flood in Cape Breton and other potential events that could happen in the future. This legislation, I believe, is paramount and important in trying to battle climate change.

[4:30 p.m.]

            These events happened. It happened in Cape Breton It takes a toll on the community, and it’s a significant expense to government, regardless of the level. So, this legislation is very important for me. I can say that, on the tour, this did not come up. This greenhouse gas reduction is an important aspect for all of us. It’s something that we all need to champion. I’m not saying that because they didn’t talk about it in their tour that it’s not important for them, but at this point right now, the legislation talks about some of the players that will be involved in the cap and trade system. We wouldn’t have any jurisdiction over that. The municipalities would be engaged, but I believe that the municipalities won’t be impacted.

            MR. JOHNS: I have to take the devil’s advocate point of view. What if there are some implications? What if, because of the cap and trade program, electricity prices do go up? What if fuel prices go up? What if home heating fuel goes up? That’s all going to have a significant impact to municipalities across the province, who rely on those things to put fuel in the cars for the police and to heat the firetrucks and everything else.

            I do note that, through that legislation, there was an opportunity where agriculture is exempt. So, I questioned: why would you exempt agriculture if there was not going to be an implication there? I see parallels between residents and municipalities across the province and why agriculture is being exempted.

            I am concerned. Perhaps the municipalities—particularly some of the smaller municipalities across the province, who may not necessarily have the staff resources to look at what the implications of that could be for them. Bigger municipalities, like CBRM or HRM, have enough staff on board that when a bill comes out, identified as environment, their staff analyzes exactly what that . . .

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: I’m sorry, I have to call to order. The time is up. Now we go to the NDP. Go ahead, Mr. Wilson.

            HON. DAVID WILSON: Thank you, Madam Chairman. Thank you, Minister, and your staff, for being here. It’s an area of concern for many of my residents. Over the last 14 years, I have to say the majority of the calls I get are municipal issues. That’s why I often directed my constituents to my colleague to my left, who was in municipal government for a number of years, and the other councillor in my area.

            I’m going to start right off with the last email I got concerning a municipal issue. I didn’t know the answer to it. Maybe you can answer it, or your staff can. Are municipalities, villages, towns—do they have the ability to lower speed limits in their communities under the Municipal Government Act or the Charter?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I don’t think so, sir, but I believe it’s the Motor Vehicle Act. That is something that I used to get a request for—and four-way stops.

            MR. DAVID WILSON: The reason I ask, I’ve been contacted - and actually one of my colleagues also just in the last week or so - residents were inquiring through their representative that they wanted the speed limit lowered. They were told: “Talk to the province.” So, I received a contact there. It may be through TIR. I take it you haven’t been requested. I know there is a number of requests that come through not only HRM but CBRM and other towns and villages to change the Charter, change the Municipal Government Act. This is not one that has crossed your desk?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Not one that has crossed my desk as minister, but I remember as a councillor multiple times where I would reach out to local law enforcement to determine what it was. I don’t exactly remember at the time. I can try to follow up with you, but I believe it would be under the Motor Vehicle Act that you’d have to ask. A suggestion I would provide is to reach out to your local police authority and ask them what their advice is. They may have a system in place where they may review it.

            MR. DAVID WILSON: I’ll ask the minister, if it is the case and it’s under the Motor Vehicle Act, would you and your department support the ability for villages and municipalities, towns to be able to do that. I understand the need to have some control on posting and setting limits across our province. I’ve introduced legislation on this, to reduce speed limits around the province, specifically when you come across an emergency vehicle on the side of the road.

I’ve pushed for many years, and it was frustrating. I think it took me six years before I was able to get government—I was very proud to say it was the NDP Government, and the very first bill we introduced was to protect our first responders and lower that speed limit on the highway. Would you be willing to advocate or support the idea or at least a discussion on the ability for the municipalities to do that?

MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: In response to that: I’d be more than willing to have a conversation with you further. I don’t think it would fall under the purview of Municipal Affairs but, as with any request that has come through a municipality - we just finished the tour where we had a number of initiatives come forward that were not under our umbrella - we ensure we do proper follow-up with appropriate departments, and I will do that on your behalf.

MR. DAVID WILSON: In the opening comments from the minister and from my colleagues and through some of the questions, I know the minister has first-hand experience dealing with the floods last year in Cape Breton. I’m glad to see there was a rapid response to address some of those issues that Cape Bretoners saw, but not only in Cape Breton—down the South Shore, southwest portions of our province with some of the weather events that we’ve seen.

I’m glad that the municipality, the province, EMO are ready to jump into action. But severe weather events are not going to go away. Often it’s the municipalities and the villages and the towns that are on the front line of trying to address the impact or minimize the impact that severe weather will have on our communities.

I’m wondering if you could point to something in the budget - money, programs - that will help municipalities address issues like water collection, sewer, stormwater drainage. I know how expensive it is for municipalities to do the upgrades. For many, many years, they’ve been left to the point where there is a need for municipalities and towns to upgrade stormwater - as I said, sewer - collection, the ability to create flood plains and increase flood plain perimeters around communities. I’m wondering what you could point to, under your department, that would help municipalities achieve that, because it’s going to cost those units money to try to hopefully minimize the impact, as I said, of severe weather events in the future.

MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Outside of the regular planning that we do with every community across Nova Scotia that is responsible for having a plan and having a coordinator and somebody that works with EMO, there is the Flood Risk Infrastructure Program—that was $277,000 last year. That’s a fund that communities can apply for for specific projects to help with potential flood mitigation. As well, we’re working with our federal counterparts on national programs to determine if we can allocate funds to look at overland mapping and other programs. Specifically, $277,000—that program is there.

            Again, it’s important to state that we have EMO emergency coordinators right across the province, strategically located in certain areas, who can respond to communities in the event of a disaster or a flood—many events, for that matter. They played an integral role in Cape Breton and during some other weather events across the province. They’re on the ground every day. They’re helping to develop that plan. They’re helping to map out and inventory the resources that are on the ground for each community to determine whether the community has everything they need there locally or a plan in place to make sure that if we need to bring supports in, we can. That work is ongoing. We have specific programs for communities that they can apply for, but we also work closely with our national partners.

            MR. DAVID WILSON: I’m glad there’s a program. But, realizing the sheer cost of addressing some of these issues, with all respect $277,000 is not going to go very far.

            The minister mentioned the millions that it took to help the people of Cape Breton. I think there’s an onus on all of us, no matter where you sit in the Legislature, to recognize that it’s different than 14 years ago when I came through the doors of the Legislature. Ironically, a week after my very first session was Hurricane Juan. I think since then, it has started to open the eyes of not only Nova Scotians but Canadians that, even though we might consider ourselves maybe not seeing the severe weather events to the south of us, we are impacted by it, and we have to take this seriously.

            I know you’re new to the position. I hope you take away from my comments that we do need to work not only on a provincial level but a national level, with our federal government, to address this. I don’t think the municipalities and the towns and the villages have the capacity to truly do the preventive work that needs to happen to make sure that we minimize the impact. We’re never going to be able to prevent it totally but there needs to be more awareness around this.

            I’m wondering if you could in your budget indicate or provide a breakdown of the federal transfers that come into the department. I do this in a number of the areas I’m the critic for. I’m just wondering if you could give us those breakdowns of the total budget of $332 million, roughly, this year. How much of that would be federal transfers or funds?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Just before we start, I want to make a correction for you on the last one. I indicated a number of $277,000 as the budget. It was actually $500,000 that we spent last year on that program.

            When it comes to the federal transfers in the department, you’re looking at approximately $215 million. Is that the number you’re looking for?

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Yes. Is it possible to get a breakdown? As I mentioned during Health Estimates, I know the federal government is starting to kind of target certain areas—mental health, for example. When it comes to municipalities and towns, there was a lot of talk during the last federal election around support for infrastructure, for transit, for a whole range of areas that towns and cities have been calling on the federal government to show more support for.

            Is there targeted funding for targeted specific programs? Can you provide that for us or indicate which areas in your department are specifically for a certain program from the feds?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Are you looking for like breakdowns of projects as well, like the allocations per community?

[4:45 p.m.]

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Definitely.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: We do have breakdowns. I don’t know if you want me to list them all off now. We could do that, but we could provide them. We wouldn’t have any of the information on the new round because that’s still being negotiated. For example, the Clean Water and Wastewater Fund, the federal program, that’s the 50-25-25. We would have numbers that would show the projects per community and would provide those breakdowns and the recoverable cost to us. Is that specific?

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Yes, you don’t need to go through it now. If you could provide it for us. Okay, that’s good. I appreciate that.

            I want to go to an area that covers a couple of different departments and one that I continue to bring up in the House. I know the member has heard me talk about this before. One of the areas is benefits for first responders and access to WCB benefits. I know there’s municipalities around the province that do offer that for full-time first responders or volunteer firefighters, for example. What I’ve heard from many of them is that there’s a challenge with the costs.

            Is there any program that municipalities could tap into under your department that would help them ensure that people who are first responders can maybe gain access to WCB benefits, since they are spending their time protecting our communities and our residents?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: At this point we don’t have anything currently under our department.

            MR. DAVID WILSON: So, I’ll put the minister on notice that this will be an area where I’ll continue to advocate, even though a lot of my time over the last four years has been to increase the benefits of WCB to those first responders. I know that budget preparation will start pretty much after we finish these estimates for next year. If there’s a possibility to look at a request to Treasury Board, I’m more than happy for you to put my name down on any submission that would support your department getting extra money to support municipalities across the province. I hope you can take that back with you and make sure that’s something that might be on the radar when you start to prepare your budget.

            I know in 2015, the minister just started as the new minister, there was an audit of the Department of Municipal Affairs done by the Auditor General. It concluded that: there wasn’t effective valuation and monitoring of municipal financial risks, assessing municipal borrowing risks; that they, at times, did not follow some guidelines for application-based grants. I’m wondering if there’s anything in the budget here that goes towards ensuring the department addresses the concerns of the Auditor General. We’ll be coming up on the two-year mark where the Auditor General will be coming back and looking at the recommendations out of the AG’s Report back in 2015 and maybe at an update on how many of the recommendations at that time are fully implemented and if there re funds in the budget to ensure that happens.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: There were a number of recommendations that were provided back then by the Auditor General. To provide some examples of those recommendations: one of the recommendations was that the Department of Municipal Affairs should monitor municipalities in a timely manner and publish relevant municipal financial reports and indicators promptly. DMA developed a risk-based review approach to assess and monitor the financial information municipalities submit. Current FCIs are published, and currently the municipal statistics are published in the open data to provide more user-friendly formats. That recommendation was completed.

            Another recommendation was that the Department of Municipal Affairs should develop processes to monitor negative financial indicators and follow up with municipalities to determine underlying causes and verify that action plans are developed. The department finance staff and the municipal advisors have completed the review of the most recent financial statements, MFC data to ensure all data is accurate and timely. Three of the municipalities that consistently exceeded six or more FCI thresholds have been requested to engage in further analysis, development and submission of a plan.

            I just provide those two examples because there were a number of recommendations. There were eight, and we actually addressed them all. That was done, and I compliment staff for doing that as well.

            Just to provide some more information. Essentially, the recommendations that the auditor brought forward, the department addressed.

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Thank you for that. I’m going to turn to some of the numbers and the figures in the budget and the budget book. I’ll be on page 18.5. I apologize if you answered this before; I know I was writing questions. It’s around the second line: “Corporate Policy, Planning and Strategic Initiatives.” There’s an estimate, budget line item this year, of just over $1 million. I’m wondering if you - minister, remind me because I think I did hear the answer, but maybe not.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Essentially, that was just a reorganization within the department. There was a transfer of a full-time in from a department outside of government, to support some of the work that the department was doing, so that’s what that number reflects. These are existing staff.

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Am I correct to say that it’s a $1 million line item? I used to work with Health, and it would be $10 million or $100 million. I just want to make sure if that’s $1 million, and you’re saying that’s one person coming in. Some clarification.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: You’re looking at seven full-time within the department and, as well, one executive director transferred in from the Department of Natural Resources and a records clerk transferred in from Service Nova Scotia.

            MR. DAVID WILSON: Just maybe some clarification on why they came from different departments. I know in past budgets, when there was definitely a shift in what the departments’ initiatives are, but just maybe a little bit more on why they are there and what their work is going to entail over the next year.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Essentially, the goal and the role at the time was to bring this group together to: work on more strategic initiatives within the department; look at some business planning within the department; look at MGA review within the department. That’s why you’re seeing that skill set brought together. They were in different parts of the department.

            MR. DAVID WILSON: So that $1 million, is that new monies, or did that money follow the seven positions from the other departments? If I were to go around to the other departments and ask them, did you reduce your budget by so much—is that new money to the department?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: It’s not new money to the department.

            MR. DAVID WILSON: I’ll just drop down to the next line, “Grants, Programs, and Operations.” I believe it may have been asked by my colleague, but we noticed a definite increase from the $91 million, roughly estimated, to $236 million. If you can give a quick response on that increase and what the details of that increase are.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: That reflects the Clean Water and Wastewater Fund, the federal government contribution. It also includes the Public Transit Infrastructure Fund that we administer through the federal government. That represents the largest increase in the department.

MR. DAVID WILSON: I’m going to share my time with my colleague Ms. Roberts.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Starting now? Okay, Ms. Roberts.

            MS. LISA ROBERTS: I appreciate my colleague sharing time. I just barely got to understand the department when I was spokesperson for my brief eight months between elections.

I have an overall question. I’m wondering how or who in Municipal Affairs works in a non-siloed approach to respond to municipalities when they have initiatives, when they have issues like the Motor Vehicle Act amendments, which are also coming up to me on a regular basis at a constituency level. But, it’s not just those – also, around siting of provincial government investments, which are obviously in municipalities and either work or don’t work with land-use planning and transit initiatives and so forth. What is the approach or the role of Municipal Affairs in terms of responding to municipalities?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you for the question. I would say our first line of communication with municipalities, and I saw this on the tour, are the municipal advisers that we have in the department. There are representatives from DMA. They all represent a certain area of the province. It’s their role and responsibility to keep close contact with municipalities. As municipalities are interested in projects or policy initiatives, whether it’s under DMA or under another department. As I have seen on the tour and listened to those municipal advisers, they’re in constant contact with other departments within government because not everything is going to fall under our umbrella, but we are there to advocate for municipalities.

They do a tremendous amount of work. When I was on tour, we talked about a number of things. Every community is unique, so they have their own unique wants and challenges. Those advisers are out there on a daily basis meeting with them to bring that information back to us. That helps us set some direction and policy for the department.

            MS. ROBERTS: Is that your answer?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I have just one more comment I was going to make: they also work directly with us when it comes to any kind of land use planning, as well; I think that was part of your question. The municipal advisors, in my experience since I started, do a tremendous amount of work to ensure that, as anything arises within municipalities, we’re aware of it.

[5:00 p.m.]

            MS. ROBERTS: Do those municipal advisors work under the Municipal Planning and Advisory Service? Yes. So maybe a few questions about that. I see that the budget for that program is going up by about $3 million from last year’s actuals, but the staff complement is actually going down. Can you speak to what is changing within that program?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: The biggest increase you’ll see there is the grant in lieu of the provincial property tax. We have properties within municipalities that we would pay tax on. It’s actually the increase is about $1.3 million and that’s probably the biggest chunk of it because that would represent the value of those properties.

            MS. ROBERTS: I have to be honest, I’ve never heard of municipal advisors—and that’s not surprising because I’m still quite new at this—but how and where do they work? I’m wondering, as a MLA who has a very close relationship with the municipal councillors, for example, who represent the same portion of Halifax, if they’re complaining to me about some issue that has been already presented to the provincial government—some request for an amendment under the Municipal Government Act, that hasn’t taken and we know that there’s lots of those that have accumulated over years - am I, as a MLA, able to reach out to one municipal advisor and say hey, remember that conversation you had six months ago or eight months ago or two years ago, well they’re still waiting for an answer. Maybe you can speak to me about that.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I would offer this to you, that if there’s something that has arisen with your local council I would reach out directly to me. The advisors play an incredible role in gathering data and the work that they do, but if there’s an issue that you have and you want to have a discussion, just reach out to me. We can try to take the information that we receive within the department to try to help you come to a resolution on that situation or at least enhance the conversation to determine if there is a path going forward. I would advise you to just reach out to me.

            MS. ROBERTS: Okay, thank you. I know that it’s the Municipal Planning and Advisory Services Program that - or I understand that it would be that program - that would manage a relationship or no, is it under the governance one, with the UNSM? I know that they’ve done some work to try to streamline the number of resolutions and asks going forward to the province. How does that inform the business planning, the work planning, within the Department of Municipal Affairs? I think last year they tried to get it down to five or 10 different asks.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: There is a partnership framework that exists now that has been developed between the department and the UNSM. It outlines some joint priorities for both. I can give you them here now. The first one is to develop a protocol for consultation on legislative and regulatory changes that may impact municipal governments. The next is to collaborate on the Joint Municipal Accountability and Transparency Committee to develop standardized regulatory framework for municipal expense policies—that includes online reporting, which will go to third reading very soon. A tremendous amount of work was done in partnership with them and AMA and their villages. The next is to continue to review the Municipal Government Act and HRM Charter and recommend changes to modernize the legislation. The next one is to review municipal governance models and identify options for structural change that strengthen municipal viability. The next one is to continue to support the financial condition index as a tool to help municipalities improve their fiscal capacity. The next one is to provide continued regional planning support, including developing minimal planning standards. The next is to continue to support the development of the asset management system. The next is to continue to support the regional enterprise network model to enhance economic development throughout the province and continue work on the fire services review. These are joint priorities for both.

I had the opportunity to meet with the current UNSM president. She talked about trying to modernize a bit and try to take down those resolutions that would be better for the relationship we have with them but also for their organization. I was there, so I remember. This is a better process.

The relationship is strong. We have that framework, and that’s a blueprint for us to work off. We will make enhancements as we see fit. I had the opportunity to meet with the president about the UNSM conferences coming up, and that’s going to be my first real opportunity to meet with their organization.

            MS. ROBERTS: To give you an example of one request, which hasn’t landed on fertile ground with the province—and then maybe responding to that would help me to understand better. I know that Halifax Regional Council asked—I think maybe now a year and a half ago—for an amendment that would allow permanent residents to vote in municipal and school board elections. They did all kinds of research showing—I think it has been done in Toronto and in some other jurisdiction as well, and they had some academic papers—basically as a gesture of welcome, as a gesture of belonging, as a way of engaging new residents.

The Chairman and I were two of three MLAs who were at a citizenship ceremony today and, in fact, lots of people who were there had already lived in Nova Scotia in some cases for four years. A friend of mine was there who has been here for 15 years and hadn’t yet sought citizenship. All of those are folks who pay property tax, could be engaged in serving on municipal committees, could be engaged in various other ways, but they don’t have the right to vote in municipal elections.

It was Halifax specifically that asked for that from the province. I don’t believe that they have had a response maybe other than acknowledging the initial request. Is that the sort of thing your department would play a role in navigating the province to get a response or to consider it?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I can say at this point that I have had a very brief conversation with the mayor and council. I look forward to continuing the conversations, but we haven’t landed on any kind of decision at this point right now. It was brought up at home a few years ago as well. At this point right now, the mayor and I have made the commitment to continue to have the conversation, but we haven’t landed on a decision.

            MS. ROBERTS: I know given the constituency you represent, you must be aware of the property cap challenges which I think are particular for Cape Breton. I have also heard concerns expressed certainly by some constituents, particularly after they have purchased a first home in Halifax, where property values are quite high. There can be real discrepancies among long-time owners and new owners, and the new owners aren’t necessarily in a better position to pay those taxes. I know that in Cape Breton, it’s a more pronounced challenge. I’m just interested to hear what your thoughts are in terms of what the approach might be to respond to that.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I can say as a resident in Cape Breton and Sydney and as a former councillor, I heard the same stories you have heard, especially with some younger families at home. They talk about the inequity of the system.

            This is something that the UNSM wants to continue to have the conversation on. There are groups coming forward that want to present recommendations. I’m committed to having that conversation with the UNSM.

            We don’t have a go–forward position at this point right now. I think one of the most important pieces of the cap system is some Nova Scotians see the value of the cap and some don’t see the value of the cap. There is a divide within it. I hear it at home. There are groups that have lobbied us at home to keep the cap as it is.

            I believe there’s a big education piece moving forward before we can make any real movement on the decision. It’s something that I’m hearing across the province. I heard it in my tour and in my meetings with the UNSM and some of the other stakeholders.

            I made the commitment that if there are suggestions that they want to put forward, we want to hear them. I don’t think there’s a remove-the-cap-overnight solution to it—absolutely not. As you know, if that was the case, then we would put more vulnerable Nova Scotians at risk. It’s a conversation that I fully expect is going to happen again at UNSM in the coming weeks.

            MS. ROBERTS: I would just say from the NDP caucus that we have had conversations within our caucus. As all Parties have probably realized, changes to tax policies that would benefit some disadvantage others are very difficult public conversations to have. But I think I am convinced that it is a conversation that needs to happen.

            Perhaps considering an all-Party approach to striking a committee jointly with the UNSM to start to have those conversations might be a way to go forward. Just know that we would be open to entertaining that conversation. We certainly have great NDP representation currently from all three Parties, which is I think the area where it’s felt most keenly at this point.

[5:15 p.m.]

            Back to that whole-of-government approach, I’ll say that as an MLA who represents Halifax Needham - a relatively urban and dense constituency - I recognize that there are very different realities in other parts of Nova Scotia. But I do think it’s really important that the provincial government work to complement municipal government and not work at odds with it.

            I noticed that in your introductory remarks, you spoke a fair amount about transit programs. Of course, Halifax is doing its best, imperfectly and slowly, to improve transit and to move people on to transit, and it’s struggling to do that. In fact, the recent numbers show that numbers using transit have actually gone down slightly in the municipality. Any members who live within the 100-kilometre range but somewhere out there know that traffic this Fall has been incredibly horrendous, as it is every Fall, but it seems like the period is continuing.

            Anyhow, all of that goes back to the provincial government decision to locate an outpatient clinic in the Bayers Lake Industrial Park, which is not well-served by transit and cannot be well-served by transit simply because there are too-limited routes to get through there. Unless you’re going to do a high-occupancy vehicle lane through Bayers Lake, which would be really difficult to engineer, it’s not going to happen. Patients coming from outside of the city will be able to drive in without navigating the city streets, and I can see that being beneficial for them. But in the meantime, you have cleaners and clerks and medical professionals, who currently might be able to take transit or bike or walk or whatever, who will have to get out there.

            Again, I’m wondering, under Municipal Affairs, is there a whole-of-government approach to looking at government buildings or government decisions and placement of provincial infrastructure in ways that work with the municipalities? How does that happen?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: In response, ultimately planning is the responsibility of municipalities. They have the power to do that in the MGA, and we respect that. What we do in their decision-making is provide money through the Public Transit Infrastructure Program that allows them to make decisions on transit initiatives. In this budget, I believe we’re into the tune of $28 million that we provided through our department to the HRM to provide transit services.

To speak on a global perspective, outside of the federal program, of which Halifax receives the lion’s share, and I mentioned in my opening comments, there is the program for community transportation assistance - there’s the program that we offer to support communities to purchase buses to promote accessibility and mobility across the province. There are a number of initiatives but, in terms of planning, that’s the municipality’s decision.

            MS. ROBERTS: I’m going to turn over my time to my colleagues in the other caucus after my last, maybe, rant here.

            It’s one thing to have money to have buses, but if significant destinations are sited where it does not make sense to have transit, it makes it difficult for a transit system to be viable. I think it’s fantastic that Bridgewater has a bus. I’m not familiar enough with Bridgewater to know - I know that recently, there was a rec centre that was sited at a highway interchange, and there was a big debate about whether to place that more in the middle of town. If the places that you need to get to are not sited to encourage active transportation and to encourage use of transit, then people won’t take the transit. Then you’re spending the money but without having the payoff of actually moving people out of cars.

            The wonderful thing about taking a bus is that every time you take a bus, you also walk. In terms of a whole health promotion frame, that’s a good thing. Personally, I was really disappointed to see that THRIVE - which had that bigger health promotion view and was looking at planning and siting of government buildings - was moved from Health and Wellness to Communities, Culture and Heritage and is now framed as being about promoting sport. It was never about promoting sport. It was about encouraging us as government to think about how we make decisions so that we’re shifting to the sort of planning that we need to do so that our communities are more resilient, so that our health costs go down, and so that we’re in a better position to adapt to a lower-carbon future.

            Thank you for your answers, and I’m going to pass it on. If you have any response, I would be happy to hear it.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I’ll just respond by saying thank you for your questions. I appreciate it. As I said, as MLAs, we’re in constant contact with our local government representatives. If something arises that you would like feedback on, please, by all means, reach out to me.

            Madam Chairman, may I take a two-minute recess?

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Absolutely. It’s 5:24 p.m. You’ve got two minutes.

            [5:24 p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]

[5:28 p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: We call to order the Subcommittee on Supply. We resume. Minister Mombourquette. Thanks for coming back. We now turn to the PC caucus and Mr. Brad Johns.

            MR. BRAD JOHNS: I want to wrap up where I was going in regard to the cap and trade program and the implications potentially to municipalities. Then I’m going to let my colleague ask a couple of questions that she would like to and, if there’s time available, I’ll continue.

            It’s more of a comment, I guess, Mr. Minister, than it is anything else. I don’t necessarily want to get into a debate here in regard to what our feelings are on cap and trade. I think that, in some cases, political Parties have differences of opinion on things and this would probably be one of them. As I said before, playing devil’s advocate, if there is an implication that that bill and that legislation has, given the MOU recently signed, I think it was just in December, with the Union of Nova Scotia Municipalities - that partnership framework, which I think everybody entered into in good faith, which does say develop a protocol for consultation with legislation and regulatory changes that may impact municipalities - if the cap and trade has the potential of impacting municipalities, I think we have somewhat of a responsibility to ensure that they are aware of that and that they at least can have their staff review it. I’m hoping that maybe, as the minister, you could just identify to the municipalities that this legislation is coming up. I know that as the Critic, I’m certainly going to do that as well.

[5:30 p.m.]

            At the end of the day, independent of Party politics, the municipalities can make the decision as to whether or not they feel it is going to have an impact on their bottom line. I alluded to it before, but there really is only one taxpayer and we’re all digging into that pocket and, if in some ways—whether it’s a direct or indirect download or has a direct or indirect impact on the municipalities­—I think they need to know it, so they can budget forecast for it and what the implications are going to be to the taxpayer at the end of the day. I just wanted to wrap up on where we were going with that, so thank you. I’ll let my colleague go from here.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Did you have a question for the minister?

            MR. JOHNS: Yes, I’m sorry, Madam Chairman, you came in, the Chair switched but it was a continuation of where we were when time ran.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: It was a continuation? Certainly, I hear you now. Do you have a response, minister?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I’ll say this, I believe in legislation. I believe it’s the best legislation to continue the strong work that Nova Scotia has done on climate change. As I’ve said, this wasn’t a topic of conversation on our tour. We provide a lot of assistance to municipalities through our transit programs. We have a strong relationship with our federal government in disbursing funds to support municipal infrastructure projects. Our municipal advisors are always on the ground, in constant communication with our municipalities and that will continue. I just wanted to provide those comments as well. Thank you, Madam Chairman.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: We’ll now turn it over to your colleague, Ms. Smith-McCrossin.

            MS. ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN: Thank you, Madam Chairman. I have a question, or a topic, I’d like to bring up with the minister - we’ve actually already discussed it briefly but I wanted to bring it up again today - and that is the important issue of property valuations, especially on commercial properties. It’s quite a concern among the business community—the increase, the percentage of increase on commercial properties. I believe there’s no cap on commercial, but there is on residential.

            I speak today on behalf of business commercial property owners. I know, as you are aware, there are some business owners who have appealed unsuccessfully. I realize there are next steps that people can do to appeal but not always successfully. I’m wondering what is, maybe, a solution moving forward, keeping in mind (to Brad’s point even) there’s only one taxpayer and there’s only so much money. I can say that sometimes the rate of increase far exceeds the increase of that business owner’s revenue.

You can only increase your expenses more than your increase of revenue for so many years before you are in the red. I’ll give you an example: a commercial property owner of a rental building. I have one particular case where, over the last six years, their property valuation has gone up over 30 per cent. There has been zero work done on the property that would account for the increase in the property valuation. The person has appealed a couple of times, once successfully.

            That person is restricted from increasing their rent because of the annual allowable rent increase amount. For example, this year the landlords are allowed to increase rent only by 1.1 per cent. In 2018, it is 0.8 per cent. So, if you are a commercial property owner and your property taxes are going up by 10 per cent, 20 per cent, but you are able to increase the rent only by 1.1 per cent or less than 1 per cent, you can do that for only so long. I’m speaking on behalf of commercial property owners, and I think this is a big concern. I’m wondering if you have any comments or suggestions.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you for the question. Let me start by apologizing for not being at our meeting, but you did meet with staff. I appreciate you taking the opportunity to come and meet with me, and I apologize for not being there.

            This is a bit of a Q&A format, but I think this is one of those topics that you and I would love to have conversation on at length. At this point right now, I have heard that across the province in regard to that situation. I don’t have a solution for you on that right now but, as I said, when we go on tour we hear themes. Do you know what I mean? This is something that has come up.

            What I can commit to you today is that, ultimately, the municipalities play a big part in this as they set their tax rates. PVSC plays a big role in this as well, and that is independent of us. There’s a board of councillors, and they set their direction. I will bring your concerns back to them based on this conversation today.

            I hope that you and I can continue to have a conversation moving forward. I appreciate the situation. It’s something I heard when I was a councillor myself. It’s something that I think needs some further discussion.

            MS. SMITH-MCCROSSIN: Thank you to the minister for your response. We do need to make sure we’re listening to our business owners and our entrepreneurs. We want to make sure we’re setting them up for success. When we’re looking at expenses that business owners are incurring, we need to make sure that we’re being reasonable.

            I do have one other question if it’s okay with my colleague. I don’t know if you have any suggestions. I’m a new MLA, so I’m encountering all kinds of different situations.

            Most of my constituency has coastline. I had several cases but one case in particular where someone came to me with a concern. It was in the summer. There were some beaches closed in New Brunswick, along Shediac and Cap-Pele. They asked, “How do we know if our beaches are safe because we’re all on the same shoreline?”

            My staff and I redirected that question federally because we assumed this was a federal issue. The federal department sent it to the municipal government and said this is a municipal issue because one of the concerns was sewage. Then the municipal government sent it back to us, saying it’s actually provincial. What I got from it all is that all three levels of government are involved in some manner. With beaches, if you have sewage coming out - I believe the provincial government approved the septics, but the municipal government is responsible for land-use planning, if that’s correct. Then, of course, the federal government is involved there somewhere with fisheries.

            I don’t know if you have any solution. I felt for this constituent because she just reached out to say “are the beaches safe because 10 miles up the road, they’re not,” and she got the runaround. I’m still learning the responsibilities, too.

            I’m wondering if, in your department, you have any suggestions for dealing with the beaches. I did get the Nova Scotia Beaches Act yesterday, so I can read it myself to have a better understanding. What’s your take on that? Do you have any suggestions?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: With a situation like that I don’t want to provide you with a high-level response. That’s a specific concern that you have for your constituent. Let’s have a conversation. Do you know what I mean? Once we get through this process, if we can find that time to meet—hopefully sooner than later—I would prefer to sit down and go through the whole thing with you before I make a statement on it. That’s in support of your constituent.

            You’ve a couple of different levels of government there. There are some things that our department is involved with when it comes to land use, but every situation is different. A number of factors come into play. I think it would be important, to properly represent your constituent, that you and I sit down and have a conversation to determine if there is something through the Department of Municipal Affairs that we can help you to advocate or which department—whether it’s us or the Department of Environment or somebody else. I’ll have somebody reach out to you again, so you and I can have that conversation.

            MS. SMITH-MCCROSSIN: I think the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture was involved because they had closed some beaches to clamming because of contamination, which was from the septics. There are definitely all three levels of government. Perhaps we could find solutions for our constituents and make it easier. That concludes my questions, so I’ll hand it back to my colleague.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Mr. Johns.

            MR. BRAD JOHNS: Continuing on, there are just a couple of little quick ones. I was contacted in regard to the Senior Safety Coordinator positions that municipalities have across the province. I’m not sure whether it falls directly under a municipal mandate or whether it would fall under Health and Safety, or who it falls under.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I believe that falls under the Department of Seniors.

            MR. JOHNS: Perfect, I’ll address that there. As I said, one of the important things for me is to get more of a detailed budget breakdown for more of the micro details. I’m going to run off a list of some of the questions and the kind of detail I’m looking at and perhaps staff can forward that detail to me. There are quite a few: under Community Grants and Program, the ACCESS-Ability Transportation Assistance Program, Community Access ACCESS-Ability Program, Community Transportation Assistance Program, Emergency Services Provider Fund, Legion Capital Assistance Program, Nova Scotia Transit Research Incentive Program, Contact Community Grants and Programs, Public Transit Assistance Program (PTAP).

My question was going to be to run through those, to try to dig down into some details that aren’t highlighted in those sheets, and to ask things like “how much is allocated for each program,” “are funds being utilized each year”—those kinds of breakdowns. I don’t see a whole lot of benefit to getting into that if those details can just come.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Are you looking for—when you say, for example, the Legion Capital Assistance Program, I believe that is not with us, that one is under CCH now, I just picked that out—are you looking for a breakdown of who received what in those programs, like the allocation that’s spent?

            MR. JOHNS: I’m looking for how much is available under each program; then, to breakdown, is the entire amount being utilized or is it not being utilized, that kind of detail.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: We can do our best to give you some of the detail today, but I can provide you with some more additional details, too. In my experience as an MLA, I’ll start off by saying that a lot of the grant programs, whether they’re under this department, we know the Emergency Services Provider Fund is utilized to its capacity. The Fire Marshal’s Office will go through a number of applications. I’ve never seen a situation, especially with that one, where it has been under-subscribed, so we actually have a very thorough process that’s independent of me. The Fire Marshal’s Office goes through the applications. They have a scoring system, and they allocate the funds that are in that department. That would be very similar to the Community Facilities grant, it is the same thing. These are all graded and, to my knowledge, they are utilized.

[5:45 p.m.]

            We can pull some numbers together for you to give you some examples. Of all those programs I can say this, that we, our municipal advisors, this is one of the important roles they play because communities will come forward with specific asks. What we try to do is determine does it fall under the envelope of one of these programs. They would apply like other communities and go through that grading system, or whatever process is in place, to make sure it is as transparent as possible to the taxpayer.

            Of all those programs you listed, I mentioned the Capital Legion Assistance Program, that was one that used to be under our department but that was moved to CCH. Some of the other funding, if you go to the public funds, the federal Transportation Infrastructure Program, that’s money coming in and out. We’re taking that money from the feds, so that’s based on certain criteria that then would be flowed into communities. That’s fully subscribed money, to my knowledge. Correct me if I’m wrong.

            So, looking at some of the numbers, people are using the programs, which we’re happy about. That tells me that our staff is doing a great job of making sure that the communities know that those programs exist. We want to ensure that all communities not only utilize programs but know the programs exist as well. They’re doing a great job of that. We know that, just based on the communities that are utilizing our public transportation fund, we have—I forget the total number—we have, for example, just to give you an idea, we have a lot of organizations across the province that have utilized the programs—Community Transportation Assistance, Antigonish Community Transit, Cumberland, Chester, East Hants, Kings, Strait area, for example. These are all subscribed, so they are going after the money and we’re making sure that it’s getting known.

            Again, we can sit down and we can provide you with some more detailed information.

            MR. JOHNS: Yes, if you could, I’d appreciate that. There are others, so perhaps you could give me five minutes later on, Mr. Minister, and I can provide them to you.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: What we’ll commit to you is the program list. If you provide me the list we can give you the budget for 2016-17 and the actuals, so that will give you an idea of where the money has been and where it has been spent.

            MR. JOHNS: Thank you very much. One I did want to focus on—like I said, there’s numerous because I broke them down according to grants and programs, municipal operating grants, municipal infrastructure programs, so there’s a number. One I did want to focus on was local government studies. I’m curious about exactly what that entails; how many studies are currently under way; what are the topics; what’s the cost allocated to that one, specifically, the local government studies one?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: This year, we have a budget of $150,000. We don’t have the details in the room with us, but I’ll follow up with you on where the money was spent and what reports it was for.

            MR. JOHNS: The MOU discusses the review of municipal government models to identify options for structuring change and strengthening municipal viability. I’m curious to know exactly how you’re moving forward to achieve the goal. My sub-question to that would be that currently, in the province, I believe only HRM has the Charter. I know CBRM has been after it for a while. Is there a move toward getting CBRM up and running with their own individual charter?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: There are a couple of pieces to that answer. I’ll start with the CBRM charter. The first stop on the tour was the CBRM. Mayor Clark has been talking about a charter for the CBRM for a number of years. What I have requested from him and from council is that they formalize the process because there hasn’t really been a formal request from the CBRM for us to look at it. This was back in July, and now we’re into October, so I’m not sure what the status is on that.

            The other thing I think is important is that the charter is a community document. I also requested that the CBRM reach out to the community to provide feedback because they have been coming into my offices as a local MLA. People would have this conversation with me previous to being a minister.

            At this point right now, I’m waiting to learn what their goal is. It was a priority for them. I haven’t received anything that is a priority for their council. But, as with anything else, if something comes across the desk, of course we’ll give it a proper review.

            In regard to some of the other parts of your question, we always encourage municipal partnerships. That’s a big role that we play. In my conversations with councils, we’re seeing a bit of that across the province now. There’s this want and there’s this need.

            There’s an understanding that the traditional boundaries that we all operated in for so long will not get us to prosperity. They won’t. That’s why you’re seeing the REN models. The REN models play a big part in that as well, bringing our municipalities together with our private businesses and with other government organizations. That work is continuing to happen on a daily basis.

            We’re into the MGA review. That’s something I have heard on the tour as well, that people want us to work toward it. That will be part of that; it will be part of the municipal modernization mandate that I have. We want to do whatever we can as a department to encourage communities to work together. It allows us to better set direction when we go after federal funding or any levels of funding for that matter. On the tour, we have seen it; we’ve seen partnerships looking at building certain infrastructure to support public safety, looking at infrastructure for wastewater systems.

            We’re going to do whatever we can to continue to encourage that because in every report that I have seen—and you go back to the One Nova Scotia report—the current situation for the strengths that it has, we need to work closer together. We need to bring local government closer together to work with one another and get away from those traditional invisible lines that exist between communities and set some more regional approaches to economic and social prosperity. That work continues.

            MR. JOHNS: On a follow-up to that, I’m just curious, having come from an amalgamated unit that previously was four municipal units, is there anything under way, is there anything being looked at to amalgamate municipalities in the province, whether it be by need—I think it’s probably more by municipalities recognizing that there is a need. I’m curious to know where that’s going. Anywhere at all?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: What I’ll say at this point is that there’s no specific talk on amalgamation. We would never deter a community or communities from wanting to have that conversation. Our focus, first and foremost, is to grow partnerships between the communities.

            I have a deep respect for the councils of the province. Many of them, well most of them, have been around for a very long time. I have a deep appreciation for the councillors and the conversations that I’ve had on tour. I’m encouraged by the support we’re seeing for the RENs in that model; councils are, I believe, stepping under that traditional norm and reaching out to the business community more to say we want your help, we want your assistance, not only in economic development but how we can grow and prosper as a local government. We’re going to continue to encourage that. There have been no conversations in regard to amalgamation. I would never deter a conversation that the community would want to have, as the minister.

            We have an approach. I believe the approach is working. We’re seeing the results. We’re seeing the response from communities with our REN conference in Baddeck. We’re seeing communities come forward to try to access these funds, not only individually now but jointly, to look at the water systems, to look at public transportation systems. I’m going to continue to encourage that and would encourage you, as an elected representative and as the Critic, to encourage those partnerships within communities because I believe that’s going to be the key to our success.

            MR. JOHNS: I know that recently you brought a bill forward that was to address some Charter changes, particularly in regard to some financial accountability. I’m curious to know what resources have been made available to assist in achieving this goal from the province. I’ll leave it at that.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I said this on the floor of the Legislature, I want again to publicly thank my department, all the staff in the room today and the people who are involved in working with the UNSM, with the Association of Municipal Administrators, with the Village Commission, to bring that bill forward. It’s something that was talked about frequently on the tour. It was because our province is represented by amazing upstanding citizens who wanted to do the right thing, to be as transparent as possible to the people we all represent, very similar to us and how we approach our transparency.

            Our municipal advisors are in constant contact with those communities. Some of the communities have already started implementing some of the recommendations in that report. I expect that every community will do it. We’ll be there to support them along the way too, as well. Again, it’s that important function that the municipal advisors play. Being on those communities, they’re providing constant feedback to us.

            I believe - I don’t want to throw out a number—there’s a number of them already doing it. There’s some implementing it. I just met with a Village Commission who are gearing up their communities to do it. There are certain pieces in that legislation that are very important for that transparency, including outside board members, for their audit committees. The committees are selecting those people. They are using processes that they used to select other committee members, whether it be for their heritage communities, to use an example. We’re hearing that they’re taking that step.

[6:00 p.m.]

            They’re gearing up to put their expenses online, and there has been a tremendous amount of work done. The UNSM strongly endorses this, and I’m proud of and honoured by the work that the department did with my colleague Minister Churchill, who brought it forward. I fully expect that everyone is going to co-operate.

            There are lots of resources in place but, most importantly, our people are on the ground to make sure that we can support the municipalities in any way we can to get them to the point where they can implement the new bill. I have full confidence in the process.

            MR. JOHNS: I would agree that I don’t see this being an issue with the municipalities. I met with Betty MacDonald. She and I had a brief discussion, and I think she echoed that municipalities recognize why it needs to happen.

            In regard to youth labour and rural entrepreneurship strategies, I’m curious to know who is responsible for that initiative.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Minister Mombourquette.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you for a few moments as I collect my thoughts.

            There are a couple of different departments involved with the rural entrepreneurship strategy. In my previous life, I was part of it through Labour and Advanced Education with the Island Sandbox. Our responsibility then was to promote entrepreneurship in clean technology, social innovation, and new Canadian entrepreneurship, not only in the CBRM, which is the more urban area, but we had a mandate right across the Island. We were working with various organizations and local governments to try to do whatever we could to support entrepreneurship programming with youth in those communities. I know there’s a number of initiatives government is involved with when it comes to Graduate to Opportunity (connecting recent graduates with employers) and the Innovate to Opportunity programs (connecting university graduates with employers).

            Specifically with our department, I’ll use the example of the Connector Program with the RENs. That has been one of the big initiatives that has come out of our support for the REN programs. We’re seeing success with that. LAE is still the lead on that, but we play that role with the RENs. That’s one of the great stories with the RENs. We fund it. We’re heavily involved with it. We’re part of the monitoring, transparency, and working with the municipalities. But the RENs have taken it upon themselves to try to leverage money and support through other departments.

            That’s probably one of the best examples, from a Municipal Affairs perspective; one that I’m really proud of. We are the administrator of a program. RENs are an important aspect of what we do, but these partnerships with municipalities, with the private sector, they’re taking the lead now and they’re reaching out to other departments to look for those programs. As a result, LAE stepped in with the Connector Program.

            I know that some of them are interested in working with the Department of Immigration, looking at immigration pilots, so it’s exciting. That would probably be the best example I could provide from a Municipal Affairs perspective.

            MR. JOHNS: One of the issues I always had a bit of a bone of contention with in my previous elected life was around service exchange and the responsibilities that are traditionally supposed to be provincial but have been downloaded to the municipalities or vice versa. I always kind of suggested and thought it would be more beneficial to everybody if things that fall within a municipal mandate were municipal and things that fell within the provincial sphere were provincial.

            I’m curious to know whether or not the department is looking at any new service exchange agreements and trying to clean up some of the existing ones.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: At this point, no. We have those conversations with communities across the province but, at this point, we’re not looking at it.

            MR. JOHNS: So, a supplement to that then, Mr. Minister, is the department actually working towards any new MOUs with municipalities?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: There’s no development of a specific MOU with any municipality, but we have a number of service agreements when it comes to specific projects under clean water, wastewater. We will continue to have them as we negotiate the second round of funding with the federal government.

            The big piece for us is the relationship we’ve been building and we’ve continued to build on with the UNSM, that partnership framework that outlines the relationship moving forward. Personally, for me—I’ve been in the job for three months now—but my philosophy is that UNSM is really the voice, they want to be the voice for municipalities. I heard that on tour. There’s a strong sense that UNSM is the voice. They want to be a little more structured in how they approach our relationship with government, talking about resolutions and trying to drill down to be a little more concise with what they want to do. I appreciate that and respect that, so we have that framework. We’re going to work on that. From there we’ll enhance that and determine if we need to expand it. Most important to me is to build that strong relationship with the UNSM. They are the voice for municipalities.

            Specifically, when it comes to the money that comes in and out of our department with all of those funds, we have agreements with municipalities all over the place but it’s specific to those projects.

            MR. JOHNS: I’m not quite sure how much time is left. Is there 15 minutes?

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Mr. Johns, you started at 5:28 p.m. and it’s now 6:09 p.m., so you’ve got plenty of time.

            MR. JOHNS: Good. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I guess you know I am a member from metro, so I did want to throw that hat back on for a minute and to follow up on one of the questions I heard an NDP member bringing up. It was in regard to the location of the new health centre being in Burnside. It’s quite clear—where this comes into municipalities is the effect the announcement had directly on the Halifax Regional Municipality, to which Mayor Savage came out as somewhat critical of that location.

            When projects like that are announced independently of consultation with municipalities, it somewhat goes against the highlighted principles in the framework. The framework—the partnership framework with the UNSM— specifically says that you want to consult municipal units in regard to things that are going to impact them. That was certainly something that impacted HRM.

            My follow-up question on that is, when they’re looking at locations—new services, new facilities, similar to that—do they consult your department to consult with and to talk with municipalities? In the case of that location, Mayor Savage came out and said he wasn’t consulted.

            I’m also concerned over the fact that, given my understanding through previous discussions with MLA Horne in regard to the Burnside bypass, in some cases it seems that the municipality and the current government have suggested there are going to be infrastructure investments in one area—being out by the Sackville-Bedford area—and then this announcement came out.

            I’m wondering whether or not anybody consulted. What’s the history? Can you provide me some history on that at all, Mr. Minister?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I wouldn’t be able to provide you any history on that because that was before my time. What I can say is that from our perspective, we do whatever we can to ensure that if there are programs that municipalities can utilize for public transportation or any other programs, we want to make sure that we do it. Specifically, in this case, I wouldn’t be able to comment on it because, as I said, it was before my time.

            But our commitment will always be there to try to do whatever we can to support the HRM and every community. If there is a transportation desire that they have, and it can fit under one of our programs, we want to make sure that they have the ability to do it. If there’s money available through the federal government through the first round or the second round—whether it’s for roads or, in that case, it was clean water wastewater—in the second round, if there’s money for infrastructure that they’re going to go after, we’ll make sure they have all the criteria so they can try to utilize some of that money.

            I can’t speak specifically to that case, but I can say that, from my perspective, we’ll do whatever we can to support the services that the HRM provides to its residents.

            MR. JOHNS: I think that at the end of the day, we want to ensure that provincial dollars are spent the best, and we don’t want to impact municipalities to have to start realigning and creating new financial difficulties for municipalities either. Perhaps, if you’re flexible to it, there might be an opportunity to sit down with Mayor Savage and have a discussion in regard to some future projects that the province may be bringing forward.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I have had the opportunity to talk to Mayor Savage and most mayors for that matter. They have presented to me, on numerous occasions, specific projects in their areas that they may want to look at. There are no commitments made at these meetings, but my role as minister is to ensure that they have a voice within the government.

            We have staff, as I said, municipal advisers who travel throughout the province to ensure that the municipal voice is heard and that not only the elected representatives but also the administrators within those organizations can provide feedback. We will always do that to make sure communities can access funds as they become available.

            MR. JOHNS: One of the things that I noticed was interesting—I don’t know about it, so I’m wondering if there might be an opportunity for you to elaborate somewhat on it—is something called Flextrack Inc. There was $200,000 on Flextrack Inc. last year, and I’m not quite sure what that is or how the money is being utilized on the initiative. I’m not sure what it is.

[6:15 p.m.]

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Just to give some description of what that is, you are seeing advisory services, consulting services in the Emergency Management Office. A big chunk of that is related again to the flood in Cape Breton. We would have used procurement, this process for utilizing some of the emergency management consultation that we used during the flood.

            MR. JOHNS: When I went through the budget something else popped out that I needed to ask you about, which is funding for Acadia. I noticed there was a funding allocation there for Acadia. I’m assuming it’s Acadia University. I’m wondering if you could explain that a little bit more to me—Acadia University, yes, under ‘Other’ it was $31,000.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: That expense is related to data management courses that were taken by Emergency Management, so it’s for staff.

            MR. JOHNS: It wasn’t to the university, it was for training, okay. I would assume that the almost $12,000 to Dal would be the same thing then, was it? Saint Mary’s, I see five as well.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: What was the name of the place, sir?

            MR. JOHNS: Dalhousie University, there’s an allocation of $11,000.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: That’s courses and registration for four employees.

            MR. JOHNS: And Saint Mary’s would be the same?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Yes, it’s the same: courses and registration for two employees.

MR. JOHNS: Also in the letter, I believe—there is an allocation. It’s in the mandate letter, but I saw it somewhere else as well. It’s $500,000 for beautification and streetscaping, and $500,000 allocated for a community works fund. I’m curious to know what the community works fund is and I am curious to know how each of those $500,000 are allocated across the province.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Essentially, these are going to be new programs that are offered by the Department of Municipal Affairs. These are campaign commitments by this government based on feedback that we received from communities to look at some communities’ streetscaping improvement programs. I haven’t designed them yet. Staff is engaged in it. I can assure you that, when they’re designed, all MLAs will have the opportunity to access the files.

            MR. JOHNS: That’s a good answer, except it hurts the next questions: How is it going to be administered? When is it going to begin? How many years? You kind of wiped all of those out in one second. I appreciate that answer very much. Thank you.

            I’m curious as well - if you could give me a little bit of information—we didn’t really touch on the Municipal Finance Corporation. I do know the role that the Municipal Finance Corporation plays. I’m just looking for an update on how they’re doing and what’s going on there.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I’m just going to read the letter quickly so we have it on the record. This is the message from the minister and the chairman:

            “The Nova Scotia Municipal Finance Corporation is a Crown corporation in the Province of Nova Scotia. The MFC was established by the Municipal Finance Corporation Act in 1979 and began business in January 1980. The Minister of Municipal Affairs is responsible for the corporation.

            “NSMFC’s purpose is to provide the lowest-cost financing available to its clients which includes municipalities, municipal enterprises, school boards, and health authorities. In accordance with the Municipal Finance Corporation Act, all municipalities and municipal enterprises must finance their external capital requirements through the corporation. Currently most school board and hospital capital expenditures are financed directly by the province.

            “In addition to this core mandate, NSMFC works directly with the clients to support the sound financial management of Nova Scotia municipalities. Staff provides advice through the debenture process and securing temporary borrowing resolutions. The corporation has also developed tools such as the debt affordability model and the financial management best practices to help municipalities improve their financial planning impact and capacity.

“Finally, by using its biennial client surveys to measure the success of programs and services, the corporation can identify and respond to ongoing client needs. As throughout its 37-year history, NSMFC remains committed to fostering a client-focused approach.

            “The NSMFC is forecasting to have over $797.4 million in debentures outstanding at March 31, 2017. New debentures issued in 2017-18 are estimated to be approximately $129.6 million, which will be balanced against debenture retirements of $106 million.

            “The corporation is governed by the board of directors appointed by the Lieutenant Governor in Council, and the legislation requires that two board members be appointed on the recommendation of the Union of Nova Scotia Municipalities. An additional member of the board is appointed at the recommendation of the Association of Municipal Administrators of Nova Scotia. These appointments provide municipalities with an important voice on the NSMFC board.

            “Three full-time staff members of the corporation are supported through staff and the resources from the provincial Departments of Finance and Treasury Board, Justice, and Municipal Affairs.”

            That’s just a bit of an overview of it. When you say how they’re doing, is there anything specific that you’re looking for?

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Minister, you will table that for us as well?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Oh, yes, absolutely.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Have you concluded your response?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I just want a little more specific information.

            MR. JOHNS: I guess specifically what I was looking at was: How will the federal infrastructure bank affect the core business of the Municipal Finance Corporation?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: The infrastructure bank is not yet up and running, but I can say that we have really close contact with our municipalities and we see projects that come through regularly that they want to complete—a road, sewer, et cetera. We’re constantly supporting them in those processes to ensure that as they borrow money through the corporation or move into the future that they are healthy and vibrant and that they can sustain what they are doing. I don’t know if that answers your question directly.

            I feel very confident in the process, and I feel very confident in the relationship that we have with municipalities as they go out and try to complete projects for their communities.

            MR. JOHNS: That pretty much brings me to the end, I think, both probably close to end time and in questions so thank you very much, Mr. Minister, I certainly appreciate that.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Again, through you, Madam Chairman, to the member, I appreciate your comments and our conversation today. Well, it’s more Q and A and not really much of a conversation, but I do appreciate the conversations that we’ve had since you’ve been elected. I congratulate you on your election, and I’m sure we’ll have more conversations in the future. Thank you for the time. I appreciate it.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. I’m now going to turn it to Mr. Gordon Wilson with the Liberal caucus.

            MR. GORDON WILSON: Can you tell me how much time we have left?

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Certainly. It’s 6:26 p.m., and we will conclude at 7:09 p.m. We have to allow a few minutes for the closing, so you’ve got a good . . .

            MR. GORDON WILSON: I’ll ask the minister how much time he’d like to have for concluding remarks and to read his resolution.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I would be comfortable if we have 10 minutes at the end to make some concluding remarks and give the members some opportunities if they have any questions for me.

            MR. GORDON WILSON: Thank you. I’ll leave it up to the Chair to give you the 10-minute warning.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: We will do that.

            MR. GORDON WILSON: Thank you very much. We don’t get an opportunity an awful lot—I appreciate the time—to ask a few questions. I think a few of us have questions over here. I won’t keep you all the time, obviously. I had the privilege of spending eight years with municipal government, and I’d be remiss not to ask a few questions on behalf of my years there.

            I had a learning lesson. I started my career with the federal government, then went to the provincial government, and then went to the municipal government. I think it almost should be the opposite way around. I think people should have to start off in municipal, move to provincial, and then on to federal because I’ll truly say that municipal government was the best experience for learning what makes your community tick.

            I did have the privilege to meet a lot of the folks in your department - some who are here tonight - and work directly with them, and it really was a learning experience. My role was as administrator; I was with the Association of Municipal Administrators. So let’s not kid ourselves; we know who runs government.

            I’ve listened intently to a lot of the questions from the Opposition and never really heard an awful lot said about AMA or questions asked around AMA; I might have missed a couple when I popped out. It is an extremely important organization that supports quite an entity, an extremely professional group of people, too, I must say, dedicated and valued.

            Can you give me comments on your engagement you’ve had with AMA since you’ve been appointed as minister?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Absolutely. I thank the member for the question. I’ll start by thanking him for his friendship and hospitality as we visited his community over the summer. We were fortunate, Madam Chairman, that when we were there we were actually chasing the tall ships. It was my first trip ever to Digby. You live in a beautiful part of the world, and I appreciate the hospitality you gave to not only myself but to staff who were travelling with me.

[6:30 p.m.]

            As a former councillor, I had the opportunity to work with many administrators not only in the CBRM but across the province. They do a tremendous amount of work to support the services that municipalities provide to their citizens. They do a tremendous amount of work working with various levels of government to ensure that municipalities are following the MGA and following other regulations they need to follow for their residents. So I have that experience and a deep appreciation for the work that you did and the work that administrators do right across the province.

            I attended the AMA conference a few weeks ago; I had the honour of providing opening remarks. I can say that they are integral in a lot of the policy that will come out of Municipal Affairs. You’re looking at the legislation—we’re about to take the third reading—in regard to municipal expenses. They were a leader in trying to provide that knowledge and expertise to our former colleague, Minister Churchill, and to the staff in developing that legislation. The work they did was supported and endorsed by all municipal units within the UNSM, so that tells you the importance of what the AMA provides to the work that we do and the work that the provincial government does.

            Our staff works very closely with AMA to help draft that legislation and bring forward other policies to support those communities; they work very closely. As you heard throughout the discussion tonight, our budget has increased significantly because of the relationship and the partnership and our responsibility of administering the Clean Water Wastewater Fund. Our staff is working with their staff to ensure that the capacity is there for them to complete those projects and that the financial viability is there to complete those projects.

We’re all politicians at this table, and we have the honour of being elected and putting our name on that ballot, but the day will come when somebody else will be sitting in this seat. There will be another Minister of Municipal Affairs, but those staff are the link. They are the continuity. They are the ones who, over the span of time, will see a lot of the policies that elected representatives bring forward. They’ll see them come to be.

            It’s very important that we have a strong relationship with our municipal administrators. I can say with great confidence that our staff has that relationship with our municipal colleagues. As we move into my time as minister, my goal is to continue to enhance that relationship, be as successful as I can to them. As new projects come forward and as we continue to negotiate the next round of funding with our federal counterparts, they are part of that conversation. They were a very big part of that tour. A lot of the feedback they provided to me is feedback I use to set direction for the department and use as we continue to negotiate those funding arrangements.

            In conclusion, AMA - very important, a very important relationship—I am honoured to be in my place here publicly to thank them for the work they do for the people of municipalities across the province.

            MR. GORDON WILSON: I had three areas. One was AMA and, with each one, a quick follow-up. Again, I won’t take up all my colleague’s time.

            In your meetings with the AMA, what would you say were their biggest challenges, in conversations that you heard?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I think that every community we went to is unique, as we all know - Digby is beautiful, the history, the culture and the landscape is very different than it would be for Inverness County or for Cape Breton–Richmond. We heard a lot of consistent themes. It really depended on where you were in the province. Economic development was one they would talk about. Connectivity was one they would talk about in terms of rural areas of the province, accessing stronger capacity for Internet itself. There were consistent themes. I think the administrators play that role where they can dive deep into the issues in local communities. The elected representatives—we all do that as well, but we have a global perspective too as we’re representing the entire province. Specifically with what has been happening with the clean water wastewater, we are very engaged with them and making sure that everything is okay with those projects. They’re very curious to see what the next round is going to be. That has been the charge. Our government is trying to take some initiatives and trying to support transportation and roadways, some of that critical infrastructure.

            With connectivity, I can tell you that our message to those communities in meeting with the AMA representatives was, whether it fell under our umbrella of Municipal Affairs or not, we would get the proper follow-up; and we’re doing that. We’re making sure that any questions they requested from us, they’ll get proper follow-up from the appropriate department. It has been a great exercise.

            As I said earlier, I think I’ll look back and find the best thing I did was go on tour across the province because you really get a sense of the pride that people have in their communities and some of the goals and aspirations and some of the challenges that they face as well. We’ll continue to have those conversations with AMA, and I suspect the relationship is only going to get stronger.

            MR. GORDON WILSON: Your answers are longer than my questions here. My colleagues are anxiously looking at a long list; I’ll go from three down to two. This is my last one. Again, I don’t want duplication. I listened to the Opposition and the questions they asked, and I don’t want to overlap on those. I think you answered most of those quite well.

            Another area that wasn’t really touched on an awful lot was village commissions; I didn’t hear too many questions around them. They’re very near and dear to me. I have four in the area that I represent. I’m very blessed that I have three municipal units and four village commissions, and they all work so well together. I’m one of the luckiest MLAs, I think, when it comes to municipal representation and the joint service agreements.

            But village commissions are interesting. On the spectrum that I have there’s the Weymouth Village Commission and the work that they do; they maintain sidewalks. They’re very active, a very energetic group. Then, on the other end, I have my three village commissions down on the islands: Westport, Freeport, and Tiverton. They play a different role.

            I believe you did meet with village commissions. We haven’t had a chance to chat about that on your tour. I would be interested to know what you came across as far as the village commissions.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I appreciate that question. It was great. It worked out well because the village commission was in Baddeck and, I, being from Sydney, had the opportunity to meet with them. It was the first time the village commission has seen a minister in years, I believe.

It was a quick conversation, but I think it was an important one to establish a relationship between myself and the village commission. I had a sense of what they did but, after having those conversations with people and understanding that they do maintain roads and provide important services to communities, we want to continue to strengthen those relationships.

            Some of the themes that came out of that meeting were very consistent with what we heard on tour (based on the geographical location of some of those villages) when it comes to connectivity and supporting economic development. Most importantly, they play a very important role in providing services to Nova Scotians. From the conversations I had with them, they provide a lot of great history for the province and those small towns.

            I use Baddeck as an example. I was really honoured to have the opportunity to speak. It was great because the whole commission was there. It was a good conversation, a lot of Q&A; we’ll do some proper follow-up with them again. The village commission was also involved in some of the legislation that the department does. They were also involved with the JMAT group on municipal finances. They played a big part and role in that. They want to implement that too. They believe in that work and I congratulate them and commend them for being part of it.

            We’re off to a good start with the villages but I will lean on my MLAs a bit, regardless of political stripe, to determine what else I can do in my capacity to help support them. I appreciate the question.

            MR. GORDON WILSON: Thank you very much, Minister.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Mr. Wilson, you’re handing it over to your colleague, are you?

            MR. GORDON WILSON: Now, yes.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Minister Kelly Regan.

            HON. KELLY REGAN: In my constituency, we have a combination of professional firefighters and volunteer firefighters, who are also quite professional, I might add. I was just wondering: what do we have to assist them in what they are doing; how do we keep them safe; that kind of thing.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I appreciate the question from my colleague. There are a number of initiatives that we provide to support fire services, whether they are career or volunteer. Some of that support is monetary when it comes to the funding we provide to the Waverley Fire School, which provides training for our women and men who do the important work of protecting our communities every day.

            There’s also the Emergency Services Provider Fund that fire departments can apply for. The budget for it this year is $0.5 million. I’m looking forward to making an announcement in the next few weeks of the organizations that are receiving that money. That’s another important aspect that we play.

            A very important aspect is through the Office of the Fire Marshal—we keep a strong relationship with all our fire service providers—who are in constant contact with them about training opportunities, potential funding avenues to support some of that training and, of course, to be on the ground to listen to any of the concerns or challenges that fire departments may face. We hear a bit about it in rural communities and some of the challenges with volunteerism and such that may arise. The nature of rural Nova Scotia at times is that volunteerism can be difficult, but they do a tremendous amount of work for our communities.

I’ve said it earlier in my comments that aside from the very important service they provide to protect our families in the event of fire—and I can tell you from first-hand experience that, within three minutes of my house catching fire, it was consumed by smoke—the service they provided to me and my family was incredible, not only to put the fire out and save my home but also to look after my one-year-old and my two-year-old at the time. I can never thank the fire services enough for that.

            It’s important, moving forward, that as Municipal Affairs we want to have a strong relationship with our fire service providers, whether they are career or volunteer, and with our municipal officials because they also provide funds to their fire departments. There is a report that was just done; all stakeholders have been involved, and I look forward to future conversations. We want to do whatever we can to support our fire services.

            MS. REGAN: I have just one more question. We heard earlier where one of our colleagues was questioning the Burnside bypass, that particular project, the consultation, et cetera. I wanted to share with you that in Bedford and in parts of Sackville and Waverley, Fall River, et cetera, that’s a big deal because we spend a lot of time in traffic. I live 20 minutes from downtown, and I always leave an hour and 15 minutes before because we never know how long it’s going to take to get along there.

            I was going to ask about the status of the partnership agreement in terms of—sorry, the federal infrastructure investments—about the Investing in Canada fund because I know we have some investments coming our way.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: What I can offer to my colleague at this point is that the second round of funding is still in negotiation. We’re working very closely with TIR to determine what that fund is going to look like.

[6:45 p.m.]

            We’ve been heavily involved with the Clean Water Wastewater Fund—we continue to do that work—but there have been a lot of discussions. What I can tell you is that some of the feedback that we received during the tour in regard to some of the goals and aspirations of some of the communities, we’re using that to help set some direction for our department and also to determine, as we’re negotiating, this is what we’re hearing on the ground from our municipal colleagues.

            That work is still ongoing. I’m excited about it, and I appreciate the work that our department is doing in conjunction with TIR.

            MR. GORDON WILSON: Yes, I believe the Progressive Conservatives would like to ask a few questions, so we don’t mind turning it over to them.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Certainly. Turn it back to the Progressive Conservative caucus. Ms. Paon.

            MS. ALANA PAON: Madam Chairman, I have just a few questions for the minister. I’m going to try to save us some time and some of the upcoming meetings that you’ve been so kind to say that will be coming down the pipe regarding what’s going on in my constituency in the Forchu–Framboise area.

            I want to understand basically the role of EMO. I was sitting in the Chamber, not up here at the table, but listening in to what EMO provides as far as services to the province. I just want to understand a little bit more clearly the situation that is occurring in Forchu–Framboise where there’s landline issues; there’s no cellphone tower coverage. What role exactly will the EMO office play in trying to assist with getting those residents the services they need?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I’m glad that you were able to come and ask some questions because we’ve had this conversation. I do look forward to having that meeting as well. I’ve had that same conversation with your colleague who is having some similar issues, so I’ll just provide some context for EMO.

            EMO does a tremendous amount of work around the province, as many would know. The first line of defence when it comes to response to an emergency, as the municipality, we work very closely with EMO. EMO works very closely with the municipality to develop that plan. Communities are mandated to have that plan. Similarly, in the Cape Breton flood, the first line of response was the CBRM. They had a plan with their fire services, first responders, et cetera. Then when it escalates, they contact us and we initiate our provincial coordination centre, which allows us to take that plan with our regional coordinators and with our staff up here to implement first response, to help coordinate the services that we’re going to provide to those communities.

            Specific to your concern, which is a concern for all of us—it was a concern for your colleague as well—we’re very interested in hearing that. If you go through the technical aspect of the EMO—and I hope I’m completely correct when I say this—Richmond County would have to declare to us that there’s an emergency in a situation which then, in turn, would come to us, and we would activate our provincial coordination centre.

            They have not done that in that situation, but I read the local media and that’s what triggered it for me. So I asked our staff to follow up when I saw that you were going to send me a letter, and I appreciated that you did. That’s the other important role that EMO plays outside of the coordination on the ground: working with our municipal partners, helping with training and logistics.

We keep strong relationships with private organizations, telecommunications, Nova Scotia Power, et cetera. We had a conversation from your colleague; we were talking about the situation that happened in the summer with the cable that was severed in New Brunswick and Quebec and essentially created a perfect storm. We don’t have any jurisdiction over that—that’s CRTC. But for us, that day, we were very concerned about 911 service; that was a huge issue. So we established that 911 was safe, and then we continued to follow up with that provider to ensure that steps were being taken to ensure that that doesn’t happen again. In your situation, I asked them to follow up to determine if there is a plan to try to address it.

            As a government, there are certain initiatives, and we heard the Minister of Business talk about it on the floor of the House. We understand that in rural parts of Nova Scotia there are connectivity issues, and we want to try to address it. That was one of the most consistent themes I heard on the tour. It was actually the most consistent theme on the tour, to be honest. It was about trying to find ways to help communities with that connectivity. That’s a commitment of this government. We want to do whatever we can to support it. Ultimately, I think that’s going to be the solution for you.

            From an EMO perspective, there’s a regional coordinator in Cape Breton who works with Richmond County. I use Richmond as an example—it wouldn’t matter, any community develops a plan. That utilizes the resources that are on the ground, and they determine what assets are there to support in the event of an emergency. For EMO to be activated, the municipality would have to approach us and, in turn, we would act. We’re in constant contact with them. I take your concern seriously, and I look forward to the meeting.

            MS. PAON: The complication in this situation in Cape Breton–Richmond is that the emergency services that people are trying to or would have to connect with are not accessible because of the issue of phone line services being down when the electricity goes off, and it goes off quite a bit in the wintertime especially. The 911 that people would have to access is not accessible in the event of an emergency.

            My question to the minister—and I appreciate being able to have this conversation with you today—would be: What exactly has EMO found out to date? What kind of a plan would be put in place when you can’t access emergency services to begin with? This is not if a flood happens, this is when they can’t access 911. It’s very basic.

            As I understand, when the electricity goes down in Forchu–Framboise, there is a tower from Gabarus that sends a signal to Forchu, and that tower is connected to all the landlines from Forchu down to Framboise, maybe a little bit further. When the electricity goes out, what happens is that there is supposed to be a 24-hour back-up service for batteries for that tower. Unfortunately, those batteries are only lasting four to six hours, as I understand. Landlines go down, and there’s no cell phone service.

            I understand we’re working on rural connectivity for the entire province, and it is really important. But what on earth do those people do after four to six hours if they can’t connect to 911? What do they do? How do they get in touch with anyone to assist them?

            Most of the population in that area are seniors. It’s probably 90 per cent seniors in that area. It doesn’t matter if it’s only 120 houses. I don’t care if it was just six houses. Those people have a right to be able to access emergency services just like everybody else in this province. What do they do?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: It’s an interesting conversation. I have a couple of questions I want to ask in a back-and-forth conversation. I think it’s important that we do it because there are some steps that Richmond County should take as a municipality in reaching out to the CRTC to say we have this situation and find out what their feedback is. Again, it’s outside of our jurisdiction when it comes to the phone lines.

            But we’re always interested. When this made the media, I asked for the follow-up. I don’t have that in front of me, but that’s something that we can discuss when we get together. I believe, from a CRTC perspective, you should have a conversation with the municipality to determine if they’re getting the same issue that you’re hearing—they may be—and if they have taken any steps. I have asked our staff to do some follow-up, and I will probably be able to give you a better answer than I can right now when we have the opportunity to meet.

            MS. PAON: I would like to clarify. The plans that EMO put in place, are those plans for individual constituencies or are they for just individual villages? Are they an overall provincial plan? The strategies that you are referring to as far as an EMO plan, are those specifically for a certain population of people or certain area? Are they driven by particular issues that are occurring in certain areas? Just so that I can understand.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you for the question. The municipalities have a responsibility for establishing an emergency plan. We work closely with the municipalities on those plans. We have our regional coordinators on the ground, and it’s an all-hazards approach. They will look at a number of facets of each community to determine how to respond to the plan that’s put in place. We’ve seen that recently with the flood in Cape Breton, with the drought in southwestern Nova Scotia. That goes to the all-hazards approach.

            Ultimately the municipalities need to have the plan. They map that out based on the assets they have. We work with them to provide training opportunities for them to prepare for an event. We’re in constant communication with first responders within those communities to ensure that, if a disaster strikes, we can act quickly.

            In Cape Breton, we acted immediately to the flood. It was incredible to see how quickly that plan came into place, how quickly CBRM could respond to contact us to activate that coordination centre and get those families out of nine feet of water.

            With anything, aside from training and everything else, planning is key. We tell that to our communities and that’s the message: it’s important to have a plan. That’s what we learned from the Cape Breton flood. We saw that, when there’s a plan in place and everybody is organized, we can respond very quickly, and we did.

            In the case of your communities, they would work with the municipal units on their plans to ensure that in the event of crisis—which I hope never happens, none of us do—and that we’re prepared to the best of our ability. That’s the quick description of how the process works.

            I’ll say this again, we keep a strong relationship with providers outside of government to ensure that our 911 service is effective to our residents, and with Nova Scotia Power, our utility.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Ms. Paon, just letting you know there’s about 10 minutes left, and you will need x amount to conclude.

            MS. PAON: A quick question. I’m going to change gears here. We spoke earlier this week regarding the upcoming closure of the PVSC office. I do understand that’s a municipal responsibility. I would just like to understand when your department would step in, as far as any kind of oversight on how decisions are made regarding the closure of a PVSC office.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: We would engage in that. PVSC is set up to be independent for a reason. As tough as those decisions are—I reached out to the Mayor of Port Hawkesbury; I actually saw her at the event we were at Friday night; she expressed her concern to me—ultimately that’s an organizational decision. It’s a decision that affects her community. I’m sure people have utilized that office on a daily basis, but we would never intervene. That would be an organizational decision that PVSC would make. They have an board independent of us that makes those decisions and provides the rules and regulations that govern that body. That wouldn’t be us.

            MS. PAON: I have just one last question. There is no funding whatsoever from any provincial bodies that would go into funding any PVSC offices? No provincial funding, all municipal?

[7:00 p.m.]

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: No.

            MS. PAON: That’s it, thank you very much.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Monsieur d’Entremont.

            HON. CHRISTOPHER D’ENTREMONT: Merci beaucoup, Madame la Présidente. I’m going to ask a stupid question before I start rolling down that road. Does the Fire Marshal come under your jurisdiction? Okay.

            My question sort of runs in around the provider funds that have been offered to fire departments across the province. I’m just wondering how that’s going to - I was talking to my fire chief in Wedgeport, who did not receive any funds this year. Of course, they are in need of fire bunker gear and a whole bunch of that fun stuff. I’m wondering how the provider fund is working out this year, what’s the take-up and how many departments have been getting that kind of funding.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: The budget is $500,000 a year for the fund. I’ll be making the announcement in the very near future of who the recipients are. I don’t have the exact numbers in front of me or who has received what, but I can say that the program was strongly encouraged. There are many successful applicants, and there are a few that have been rejected. That tells me that we’ve met the full subscription of the fund.

            I can say this, in looking at the list, it’s well represented right across the province. It’s tough, as we all work with organizations within our community, whether it’s fire services or any of the important community facilities that provide support in our communities. We have some applications that may not make it through this year. Our Fire Marshal’s office works closely with those departments. It’s all independently run by the Fire Marshal’s office, and I’ll be making that announcement very soon.

            MR. D’ENTREMONT: Thank you for that. I understand the challenge of trying to fit all those applications under a $500,000 program. I’m hoping at some point that that program might get back to its original glory of being able to provide real funding to fire departments. We know, when a set of fire gear puts you out about $3,000 or $2,000, depending on the cost, that $500,000 doesn’t actually go far if we talk about the number of fire departments across the province.

            I know in my constituency alone, I need to count them quickly, I think I have eight fire departments, if not nine. It’s a challenge for them continually to try to keep that gear up and running, to be able to be ready and willing and able to be at a fire.

            I’m hoping as we roll along that more funding might be available; $500,000 seems to be a pretty small amount considering the challenges that fire departments have across the province. Maybe the minister has a quick comment on that.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Minister, do you have a comment on that? Six minutes.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Sorry about that, Madam Chairman, I’m just trying to get some specifics. We’re always interested in hearing from volunteer fire departments. We did change some of the funding breakdown, where the organizations now have to cover only 25 per cent of that cost. Actually, we subscribed more last year to the fund. I want to do whatever I can in my capacity as minister to support the important work that fire services do right across the province, so I appreciate comments.

            MR. D’ENTREMONT: Even if there’s a larger issue, $500,000 is a lot of small projects. I know, for instance, Eel Brook and District Fire Department in my constituency has been trying to work towards building a new fire hall. They’re going to have to go and try to access dollars from three different federal departments and provincial departments, trying to make all that work. Do you work with other departments to be able to help these fire departments get buildings that actually are suitable for the fire service?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I want to say this, we talked about that facility on the tour; that actually came up. The commitment I made that day was—we’re constantly working with other departments, especially when it comes to the larger Clean Water Wastewater Fund. We’re into the second-round negotiation for the next round of funding that’s coming from the federal government. We take that feedback to try to help with the negotiations and set some direction. I committed to all the councils I met with that—we had requests come from right across the province—we’ll get these projects to the appropriate department for proper follow up. So, as I get that, I absolutely can sit down and have a conversation with you.

            MR. D’ENTREMONT: Switching gears just a little bit before we run out of time, I have three municipal units in my constituency—the Municipality of Argyle, the Municipality of the District of Barrington, and the Town of Clarke’s Harbour. All of them are pretty well-managed, and I don’t have to worry about them too much.

            But I do worry about the Town of Clark’s Harbour just a little bit. They have had a number of challenges because of their tax base not being able to provide the services. I think they have been red-flagged a couple of times when we do the identification of those municipal units. How are we going to be dealing in the future with some of these smaller towns that are going to have a hard time meeting those tax bases or being able to provide the services to their residents?

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Minister, how many resolutions do you have?

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Just one.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Okay, you’ve got two minutes.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: Our municipal adviser is working closely with Clark’s Harbour. There’s that communication as well.

What I have said to communities across the province is that we want to do whatever we can to encourage collaboration and break down those traditional lines as much as we can to help with dual service delivery to residents, looking at ways that we can help communities like Clark’s Harbour with some of the challenges that they face. We’re very open to any conversation that that community wants to have with you and with their surrounding communities. For me, it’s about trying to find ways that we can help communities partner on infrastructure projects that they need to get done and what that looks like in the future. We’re in constant contact with your communities.

            MR. D’ENTREMONT: Good. Thank you. Read your resolution.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Please, go ahead. Sum up.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: How much time do I have left, Madam Chairman?

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: You have a minute and a couple of seconds.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I’m just going to go into my resolution then.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: You can read it slowly. It’s okay.

            MR. MOMBOURQUETTE: I’ll say thank you all very much for the comments today. It’s an honour to be in this position, as a former councillor, to work with the municipalities across the province that you all represent and work with. I look forward to this role as minister and look forward to working with all of you.

            MADAM CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E16 stand?

The resolution stands.

            Thank you very much. This concludes the Subcommittee on Supply for today. Exactly on point. Thank you very much. Have a good night. We’ll see you all on the other side.

            [The subcommittee adjourned at 7:08 p.m.]