HANSARD
Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services
Ms. Maureen MacDonald (Chair)
Mr. Chuck Porter (Vice-Chairman)
Mr. Alfred MacLeod
Mr. Keith Bain
Mr. Graham Steele
Mr. David Wilson (Sackville-Cobequid)
Mr. Keith Colwell
Mr. Stephen MacNeil
Ms. Diana Whalen
[Ms. Diana Whalen was replaced by Mr. Leo Glavine.]
In Attendance:
Ms. Mora Stevens
Legislative Committee Clerk
Mr. Jacques Lapointe
Auditor General
Ms. Elaine Morash
Assistant Auditor General
Mr. Terry Spicer
Audit Manager
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HALIFAX, WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2006
STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS
10:50 A.M.
CHAIR
Ms. Maureen MacDonald
VICE-CHAIRMAN
Mr. Chuck Porter
MADAM CHAIR: To members of the committee, I have received, as the Chair, a request from Mr. Colwell and this letter has been distributed to all members of the committee. I would like to open the floor now for some discussion on your point of view about this request.
MR. GRAHAM STEELE: The last line of the letter would take that as a motion?
MADAM CHAIR: Certainly, we can do that, that's probably a good way to start. Is there any discussion? Mr. Porter.
MR. CHUCK PORTER: Madam Chair, we have some issue. We talked about this as a caucus and we've devoted a considerable amount of time to setting the existing agenda and I think we're going right through to February. Suspending that agenda every time a committee member's attention is piqued by something of interest to them, I guess, is an issue and I think it sets a dangerous precedent for us and one I don't think this committee should adopt. We should stick to the plan.
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This particular issue is one that I don't see at this point in time, at least, as something that's of interest to bring forward to this committee. Maybe somewhere else, but not this particular committee.
MADAM CHAIR: Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but just a point of information to members. I had asked the clerk to have for us today a copy of what it is we do have scheduled, and you have that. Next week, you will see that we have property assessment, Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations, followed by the following week with APSEA and the special education audits. No meetings have been scheduled in December.
We have the following dates in January confirmed and tentative that you see there. I want to bring that to your attention as we discuss this.
MR. STEELE: Yes. I want to say that I agree with what Mr. Porter has said, but I also want to add to it. It's not just a matter to me of setting aside the schedule, because there's a time and a place where that's required and that's something the committee should be open to. I don't think we should rule out ever changing our schedule.
My main concern about this has to do with the mandate of this committee. The issue that has been raised and was reported in the newspapers has to do with government policy - what is government policy on the pipeline? By and large, this committee doesn't and shouldn't deal with policy issues. We should be dealing with the past, what the government has done with the money allocated to it by the Legislature. It's not a particularly good use of the Public Accounts Committee's time, I think, to call a deputy minister as a witness and for two hours try to get her to contradict government policy.
Even if the deputy minister did disagree with the government policy and she denies it, she says that's not what she said, that's not what she meant, it doesn't matter because it's not the deputy ministers who set policy.
Just to underline that point, I think that not only is it not a good use of the Public Accounts Committee's time, but there is a committee that is much better placed than this one to deal with issues of government policy on energy and that's the Resources Committee. I really think that if this is going to happen - I'm not even at all sure this is a good use of any committee's time - it should be at the Resources Committee, not the Public Accounts Committee.
MR. KEITH COLWELL: The reason we brought this forward, this has a long-term, potentially negative impact on Nova Scotia's economy. This is something the public has to be aware of, I think, through a Public Accounts process. We're looking here at the possibility of the benefits from natural gas going to New Brunswick rather than staying in Nova Scotia. This could mean a substantial number of jobs in Nova Scotia, it
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could mean a substantial number of spinoff industries that would be here and it could have a huge impact on Nova Scotia's economy.
From the standpoint of what it will do for the economy and what it will do for Nova Scotians in general, I think it's very appropriate that it comes to this committee and ensure that the Department of Energy is truly working in the best interests of Nova Scotians and trying to ensure that we have the maximum impact to our economy. I mean this is why I feel this is so important and so does our caucus.
MADAM CHAIR: Is there any further discussion? Mr. Dunn.
MR. PATRICK DUNN: I just have one comment, I concur with Mr. Steele's comments. I don't think Public Accounts is the place to bring this forth. There is another committee that certainly would be a better committee to handle this particular topic at this time.
MADAM CHAIR: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is defeated.
We also have a few minutes, if the committee is willing. We had this matter left over from the last session of the Public Accounts Committee with respect to information. (Interruption) Sorry.
MR. COLWELL: Just for a piece of information, as soon as the Auditor General's Report was over, we're out of camera, correct?
MADAM CHAIR: Pardon me?
MR. COLWELL: As soon as the Auditor General's Report was over and our questions were over, we're out of camera? We're not in camera any longer?
MADAM CHAIR: Yes, I guess that's the case.
MR. STEELE: The only reason to be in camera although, normally, would be if we have formal notification rather than it being automatic per se. I have no trouble with the previous discussion being public.
MADAM CHAIR: In the public domain, yes.
MR. PORTER: Do we need a motion to move out of camera, to be recorded?
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MR. STEELE: At this point it would just probably be - one suggestion would be just to have the committee members acknowledge that the portion after the Auditor General's Report is considered by all to be public.
MADAM CHAIR: Is it agreed?
It is agreed.
The motion is carried.
So we had this request from Ms. Whalen who is a member of the committee, who was here at our last meeting of the Public Accounts Committee, with respect to additional information and this is outlined here what it is that she's looking for. So I'll open the floor for discussion on that. Mr. Steele.
MR. STEELE: I take it that this could be characterized as a request to the committee that the Chair write to Mr. Taylor to request this information. I think it's a perfectly reasonable request. It's seeking for what you might call the true cost of the SAP project and so I would move that the Chair be asked to request this information from Mr. Taylor.
MR. COLWELL: I would second that.
MADAM CHAIR: Is there any further discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The meeting is now adjourned.
[The committee adjourned at 10:58 a.m.]
