HANSARD
NOVA SCOTIA HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
COMMITTEE
ON
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS
Wednesday, May 13, 2026
COMMITTEE ROOM
Review of Energy Affordability Programs
Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services
Public Accounts Committee
Susan Leblanc (Chair)
Marco MacLeod (Vice-Chair)
Hon. Brian Wong
Tom Taggart
Tim Outhit
Dianne Timmins
Lisa Lachance
Hon. Iain Rankin
[Tom
Taggart was replaced by Danny MacGillivray.]
In Attendance:
Kim Langille
Legislative Committee Clerk
Gordon Hebb
Chief Legislative Counsel
Kim Adair
Auditor General
WITNESSES
Department
of Energy
Stephen MacDonald - Deputy Minister
Peter Craig -
Director, Electricity
Department of Service Nova Scotia
Joanne Munro - Deputy Minister
Gary O’Toole
- Associate Deputy Minister
Nova Scotia Power
Chris
Lanteigne - Director of Customer Care
Affordable Energy Coalition of Nova Scotia
Chris
Benjamin - Co-Chair
Efficiency Nova Scotia
Martha Casey - Interim President and Chief Executive Officer
Robert Burns
- Interim Chief Operating Officer
HALIFAX, WEDNESDAY, MAY 13, 2026
STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS
9:00 A.M.
CHAIR
Susan Leblanc
VICE-CHAIR
Marco MacLeod
THE CHAIR: Order, please. I’m going to call this meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, and our committee mandate is:
The Public Accounts Committee is established for the purpose of reviewing the public accounts, the annual report or other report of the Auditor General, and any other financial matters respecting the public funds of the Province.
My name is Susan Leblanc. I am the Chair of the committee. I’m the MLA for Dartmouth North, and I use she/her pronouns. Before we begin, I would like to ask you all to make sure your phones are on silent. If we need to leave in an emergency, we’ll exit through the Granville Street doors and then meet at the Grand Parade.
I will begin by asking the committee members to introduce themselves, beginning with the member on my left. I’ll ask you to say your name, your constituency, and your pronouns, please.
[The committee members introduced themselves.]
THE CHAIR: Thank you very much. We also have officials with us from the Auditor General’s Office, the Legislative Counsel Office, and the Legislative Committees Office.
On today’s agenda, we have officials with us from many departments and organizations: the Department of Energy, the Department of Service Nova Scotia, Efficiency Nova Scotia, the Affordable Energy Coalition of Nova Scotia, and Nova Scotia Power - regarding the Review of Energy Affordability Programs. I will ask the witnesses now to please introduce yourselves, beginning with Mr. Lanteigne. Please let us know your pronouns as well.
[The witnesses introduced themselves.]
THE CHAIR: Thank you very much. It’s a big crowd and you’re all very welcome here. I will ask our witnesses to make some opening remarks. I’ll ask you when it’s your turn. Also, I want to remind everyone with this busy meeting that if you can wait until you’re acknowledged by the Chair so your microphone turns on, you don’t need to touch your microphones. I’m sure Kim has gone through all that.
Let’s begin with Deputy Minister MacDonald for the Department of Energy.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: Thank you for the opportunity to speak about energy affordability. I’m joined by Peter Craig, Director of Electricity from the department.
I had the opportunity to appear before the Natural Resources and Economic Development Committee a couple of weeks ago, and I expect we’ll touch on some of the same topics today. We talked about the rising cost of living, including higher energy bills and the actions the Province is taking to support Nova Scotians. We know that many people are struggling, and we know changes are needed in how our systems work, which is why there are many initiatives under way.
The Province supports Nova Scotians in practical ways to help cover essential costs, with a key focus on those who need it most. Deputy Minister Munro can speak to those supports delivered through Service Nova Scotia. A few other relevant programs that I would like to mention include the Seniors Care Grant, diversion funding from the Department of Opportunities and Social Development, reduced income and sales taxes, and the Nova Scotia School Lunch Program, just to name a few.
The Province has acted to protect Nova Scotians from rising energy costs, first by helping them reduce their energy use and saving them money month after month through energy efficiency programming. Since 2022, $250 million in provincial funding has helped attract $300 million in federal funds, all of which the Province directed to help Nova Scotians access energy efficiency programs. These programs helped upgrade about 47,000 households, permanently reducing their energy bills.
The Province has also acted to shield Nova Scotians from sudden and significant rate increases by legislating a cap on electricity rates, providing low-cost financing to Nova Scotia Power to reduce fuel-related charges, and opposing Nova Scotia Power’s applications for higher rates through the Nova Scotia Energy Board.
The last important additional point I’ll make is that the Province has been fundamentally changing how the electricity system works in ways that result in stable, predictable prices over time and strengthen our energy security and reliability. These include expanding local energy production and storage, which means building out onshore wind farms, solar, and local battery storage; establishing the Clean Electricity Solutions Task Force to take a look at how the Province should change the structure of the electricity system; creating the not-for-profit Nova Scotia Independent Energy System Operator to do long-term planning to determine only what the system needs and how to get it at the best price; restructuring the regulatory oversight for energy matters; and encouraging new oil and gas development so we have a chance to shift from using imported fuels to the ones that Nova Scotians produce here.
While we know that all of these measures benefit Nova Scotians, on their own they will not eliminate energy poverty. That’s why the Province is interested in growing the economy and creating more good-paying jobs so that people have the income they need to pay their bills.
THE CHAIR: Thank you very much. We’ll move on to Deputy Minister Munro from Service Nova Scotia, please.
JOANNE MUNRO: Good morning, Chair and committee members. I am pleased to join you today along with my colleagues from the Department of Service Nova Scotia to talk about energy affordability programs.
Service Nova Scotia helps connect people with government. As the Province’s service delivery department, we provide essential services, often on behalf of other departments, that support Nova Scotians, businesses, and government.
Today, I will focus on three energy-affordability programs delivered by Service Nova Scotia: the Heating Assistance Rebate Program, the Home Energy Assistance Top-up Fund, and the Your Energy Rebate Program. These programs are responsive and make a real difference for Nova Scotians.
The Heating Assistance Rebate Program is an annual one-time rebate of heating expenses for low-income households. It has helped tens of thousands of households since 2020 to pay their home heating bills. This represents an investment of over $350 million. In 2025-26, HARP provided a rebate of $400 to more than 54,000 households. This represents an expenditure of more than $21 million.
We work to make HARP as accessible as possible for eligible Nova Scotians. HARP was among the first provincial programs to offer an online application and direct deposit. Our goal is to get the rebate into the hands of Nova Scotians as quickly as possible.
Revising the Property Tax Rebate for Seniors form is another step we took to make it easier for people to apply. In 2025, over 19,000 households opted in to the Heating Assistance Rebate Program through the property tax rebate, eliminating the need for a second application.
The Home Energy Assistance Top-up Fund is a supplementary program to HARP. It’s administered by the Salvation Army and funded by Service Nova Scotia and Nova Scotia Power. Our department contributes up to $800,000 annually. The program is designed to assist those experiencing emergency heating situations. A maximum amount of $400 is provided by arranging for fuel delivery from local vendors or applying it to an outstanding bill with Nova Scotia Power. People can apply every two years, and if they meet criteria of both programs, someone could receive both a $400 rebate from HARP and $400 in emergency assistance from the HEAT program.
The Your Energy Rebate Program is the largest rebate program administered by Service Nova Scotia but owned by the Department of Finance and Treasury Board. It issued $145 million in rebates last fiscal year. Most Nova Scotians will get this rebate automatically when they buy energy. It doesn’t depend on your income level.
The department is pleased to have a role in the delivery of these three programs to help Nova Scotians, particularly our most vulnerable, to manage their home heating costs. Thank you, and I look forward to the questions.
THE CHAIR: Thank you very much. Now we’ll move to Ms. Casey from Efficiency Nova Scotia, please.
MARTHA CASEY: Good morning. Energy costs are a major challenge for households across Nova Scotia, particularly for low- and moderate-income families, seniors, renters, and people living in rural and older housing. Our programs have helped more than 242,000 Nova Scotians save on their energy bills. Since 2011, Nova Scotians are saving $6.4 billion in lifetime energy bill savings, including $849 million for low-income homeowners and renters. Our work also helps support over 5,000 well-paid jobs across Nova Scotia.
EfficiencyOne delivers a suite of income-qualified energy efficiency programs designed specifically to support households experiencing energy affordability challenges. The goal is straightforward: reduce the amount of energy a home requires so that households see lower energy bills year after year. This is not just short-term relief. For example, someone going through our HomeWarming program will save an average of $16,000 in lifetime energy bill savings; that’s about $1,100 annually, and that makes a real difference. We hear from Nova Scotians every day about the impact our work has. This impact reduces energy bills and puts money back in their pockets when they need it most. This is particularly important for the 30 percent of homes still heating with home heating oil. This is where energy efficiency is one of the only ways to manage increasingly volatile fuel costs.
Finally, accountability is central to our work. We operate under strong governance and financial controls with regular reporting to government, regulators, and funders. Our program costs, outcomes, and performance are thoroughly reviewed through audits and evaluations, and we continuously improve program design based on evidence and participant feedback. We remain committed to responsible stewardship of public funds and to supporting Nova Scotians through effective, well-managed programs in a very challenging economic time.
THE CHAIR: Thank you. Now I’ll go to Mr. Benjamin from the Affordable Energy Coalition of Nova Scotia.
CHRIS BENJAMIN: In early 2024, the Clean Electricity Solutions Task Force recommended fixing energy poverty, following the Ontario model. Then the Energy Poverty Task Force hired economist Roger Colton, who wrote the Ontario program and dozens of others like it, to create a made-in-Nova Scotia solution based on our unique energy mix which is heavy on oil and wood and has a lot of old buildings that don’t meet modern building codes.
Oil-heated homes spend 80 percent more on home energy than electrically heated homes. Oil is also volatile, subject to spiking prices, as happened when Russia invaded Ukraine and again when the U.S.A. and Israel bombed Iran recently. Government-funded assistance, through programs mentioned like the Heating Assistance Rebate Program or HARP, reduces energy poverty. Last year government reduced HARP payments, however, to $400 per household and decreased the income a household can earn and qualify which cut thousands of homes from the program.
In A Way Forward, Roger Colton recommended what is
now estimated to be a $50 million program with four components. That’s not much
more than what government just recently committed to fracking, mostly
incentives for industry just by comparison. For that amount, we could provide
four things:
1) An on-bill energy discount of 50 percent for households earning below the low-income cut off;
2) an arrears management and forgiveness program;
3) an emergency intervention fund for when things get really bad for a household; and
4) ramped-up efficiency programming for low-income households.
If a household participates in any one of these four components, they are given access to all four so no one will fall through the cracks.
THE CHAIR: Thank you very much. Finally, last but not least, Mr. Lanteigne from Nova Scotia Power.
[9:15 a.m.]
CHRIS LANTEIGNE: Good morning and thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I would like to begin by acknowledging the Chair and members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before the committee and to contribute to today’s discussion.
As mentioned, my name is Chris Lanteigne. I lead the Customer Care team at Nova Scotia Power. My team and I speak to customers every day. We help them manage their electricity bills, answer questions, and work through challenges. What we hear consistently from customers who are struggling is the pressure they’re feeling from the rising costs of living and how important it is to have options and flexibility. That feedback shapes how we support our customers.
We’re focused on helping people find solutions to manage their bills. When customers have realistic options, it leads to fewer disconnections and more stability. We offer equal billing and interest-free payment plans that allow customers to spread costs over 12 or 24 months, and for more than a year, we haven’t charged late fees or interest or disconnected customers because of cyber-related billing issues. We have a low-income advocate who works closely with our teams to provide practical, compassionate solutions.
Our employees live and work across every community in the province. We know that local organizations are the backbone of Nova Scotia. We support local organizations through a variety of broader community-based initiatives like food pantries, building upgrades, and community gardens, and we continue to support the Salvation Army-administered HEAT Fund, which helps hundreds of Nova Scotians each year.
We know there’s more work ahead, and we’re committed to working together.
I do look forward to the conversation.
THE CHAIR: Thank you very much. We’ll go to members’ questions now. We’ll start the first round with MLA Lachance, please.
LISA LACHANCE: Thank you to everyone for being here. I do appreciate that a similar conversation was started a couple of weeks ago. I’m hoping we can move that conversation forward, since there have been some changes, and a chance to follow up on some of the questions. I had a chance to review a portion of the meeting from NRED, so I have a sense of some of the things that were discussed.
I know we heard at the previous meeting from a representative from the Town of Bridgewater about how their residents are really struggling to afford energy to heat their homes - one in three seeing their breath inside. This is really congruent with the stories we hear all the time from Nova Scotians - the choices between paying for power or prescriptions or groceries, and that sort of thing.
Deputy Minister MacDonald, last month you weren’t sure what the Energy Minister’s intentions were in terms of the Energy Poverty Task Force recommendations that have just been outlined. Can you tell this committee if there has been any change? Have you had a chance to discuss this with the minister? What are the plans to look at the task force recommendations?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister MacDonald.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: Affordability across the board is a real challenge right now, whether that’s food, rent, energy, or prescriptions, as was noted. They are challenges everyone is facing, particularly those with low to moderate income. The work of the Energy Poverty Task Force reinforced the importance of targeted supports for people in need and for long-term solutions. When the task force report recommendations were produced, I understand the department did review the report and brief the minister at the time.
I received a request yesterday from Mr. Gifford on behalf of the Energy Poverty Task Force to meet with myself and the Premier as minister. That request is now in progress, if you will.
I do think it’s important to mention that the Province has taken actions in many of the four areas that are recommended in the task force report. Those include immediate relief to folks who are challenged to pay their energy bill, whether that’s through some of the programs that were mentioned - the Heating Assistance Rebate Program or the Home Energy Assistance Top-up Fund. But also, the Province is taking many longer-term actions to ensure that the price for electricity is predictable and stable over the long term.
THE CHAIR: Order, please. I forgot to mention that sometimes MLAs will flag me to say that they’ve heard their answer and that they’d like to move on. I apologize for cutting you off.
I’ll go back to MLA Lachance, please.
LISA LACHANCE: Yes, thank you. I do apologize for that. We have limited time, so we want to make the best of it and hear from as many people as possible.
Just quickly then to confirm: Has this Minister of Energy - the Premier - been briefed on the recommendations from the Energy Poverty Task Force?
STEPHEN MACDONALD: I have not been involved in that briefing myself. My understanding is that like any minister coming into a portfolio, there’s a series of briefings. My expectation is that this topic would have been included in that briefing.
LISA LACHANCE: As you know, we also wrote a follow-up letter from that meeting with NRED to encourage the Premier to meet with the Affordability Energy Coalition as soon as possible. My question is for Mr. Benjamin from the Affordable Energy Coalition: Has the Premier in his role of Energy Minister or anyone from the department reached out to set up this meeting?
THE CHAIR: Mr. Benjamin.
CHRIS BENJAMIN: No, we haven’t heard yet.
LISA LACHANCE: I guess back to Deputy Minister MacDonald. You said that a request has been put in, but what’s the plan? You’re the deputy minister; you work with the minister directly. If this was a priority, I think the meeting could be set. What is the plan going forward?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister MacDonald.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: As I mentioned, the request came into me yesterday to meet with myself and the Premier as Minister of Energy. That request, like all requests that come into the Minister/Premier goes into a bit of a process. I’m, of course, open to meet with Mr. Gifford and members of the task force at any time. In terms of meeting with the Minister/Premier, the request has just gone into the system, if you will, so I can’t speak to that exact timing and nature of it today.
LISA LACHANCE: Great, thank you. I’ll leave that specific point alone for a while. Obviously, we understand that lots of requests go into ministers’ offices. If things are priorities, though, then those happen.
The other thing that has changed over the past couple of weeks is that the Nova Scotia Power rate increase went through. Nova Scotians are now paying, again, more for the power in our homes and will be paying more again by the end of this year. We’ve heard how challenging it is. I understand the various programs that exist. I guess what I would say is that when you have so many programs and services that people might be eligible to apply for, the onus and the actual efficiency of having people out scrambling from programs here to afford their power to programs here to not lose their housing, it’s a really inefficient way for us to ask Nova Scotians to live, I would say.
One of the questions I have for the now - for today, for next month, for the end of this year - is: Deputy Minister MacDonald, will the Department of Energy conduct a review of the various energy affordability programs to look for ways in which some families might fall through the cracks, and also look for ways in which, essentially, the efficiency of those programs can be increased?
STEPHEN MACDONALD: That’s an excellent question. The department is constantly looking at programs that it is responsible for or participates in in some fashion - with partners either through funding, through Efficiency Nova Scotia, or working with the Department of Service Nova Scotia - to see how programs that are available to Nova Scotians can be well communicated, delivered as efficiently as you mentioned as possible, and that Nova Scotians who need to take advantage of them can access them. What I would say is that review is constantly under way.
I think appearances at the Natural Resources and Economic Development Committee and appearances today certainly shine a light on the priority of making sure that Nova Scotians have access to the programs. Reviewing all programs is a priority and making sure it’s done in the lowest-cost manner as possible - so yes.
LISA LACHANCE: Speaking of a program that this past year, Nova Scotians and we were disappointed to hear was essentially cut - less people had access to it - was the Heating Assistance Rebate Program. As of April 20th, 64,000 fewer households received HARP this year compared to last year. Deputy Minister Munro, I’m wondering if you can tell us what that number is now.
Also, last fiscal year, the department spent $71.8 million on HARP, and I’m wondering how much was spent this fiscal year.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Munro.
JOANNE MUNRO: We received 72,518 applications this year. We have approved and put the $400 out to 54,193 households within Nova Scotia. The budget spent this year is around $22 million or $21 million.
LISA LACHANCE: That’s a shocking reduction, in my humble opinion. This is something that’s really touted as a program that supports families, that supports seniors to stay in their homes and be able to afford their power. Essentially, about one-quarter of what was spent previously was spent on this program. Essentially, the changes that the government introduced to limit applications and to limit eligibility worked.
I guess I’m wondering: Does the department see this as a success? How are you looking at these numbers?
JOANNE MUNRO: I would say that, yes, HARP is a success. I’ve been in the chair now for 12 years, come July. The first change of the $200 rebate happened in 2021. We are now helping - last year, so the program has closed; on March 31st, the program closed - another 9,000 households. The normal - 45,000 households was pretty much the 10-year run, and now we’ve started to see the increase.
With the 2025-26 calendar year, there were a number of affordability measures that came in. HARP is one. We also made a number - the government had to make a number - of very, very tough choices for this year. Last year, with the affordability measures around taxation, HST - you know the list of affordability measures that went on with the 2025-26 fiscal year.
THE CHAIR: Order, please. I apologize.
MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: Just focusing on energy affordability and energy for Nova Scotians, Mr. Benjamin, Nova Scotians spend more than the average Canadian on their home energy bills - about 30 percent more. It’s clear that the Department of Service Nova Scotia is spending much less through HARP.
I’m wondering, through your work, how did the HARP cut impact Nova Scotians? What do people do without that support?
THE CHAIR: Mr. Benjamin.
CHRIS BENJAMIN: The Affordable Energy Coalition - our membership is largely fuel funds and people doing direct service. What they’re experiencing is just more demand. It’s harder to keep up. They ramp up their fundraising. A lot of the fundraising they do to support - I mean, they get some Nova Scotia Power supports. They get occasional government supports at various levels. But they do a lot of community-based fundraising. It’s churches, et cetera.
They’re just stretched. They’re more stretched when this situation happens that the amount is reduced and the number - the qualification gets harder, so fewer households qualify.
I’d also point out that it is a one-time payment. It’s a great thing. It is a great program, but it needs financial support from government to make it work, and the fact that it’s a one-time payment means that the money comes in and the money goes out, versus what the Energy Poverty Task Force proposed: an ongoing on-bill support so that families get relief based on the amount of their energy bill whichever their source of energy, whether it’s oil, wood, or electric or whatever.
[9:30 a.m.]
LISA LACHANCE: I want to ask about the on-bill credits. There is unpredictability in terms of rates that affect people in their budgets, folks on fixed incomes, seniors whose income has not kept pace with the cost of living, including energy. Can you explain the on-bill credit program and how that would help Nova Scotians with more predictable approaches?
CHRIS BENJAMIN: Sure. First of all, to qualify you have to earn under the low-income cut off for the household. When I say “we,” I mean the whole Energy Poverty Task Force. It was not a proposal to replace HARP or other programs, although doing this would reduce demand for HARP. The $50 million cost I mentioned would actually come down a little as people use less HARP. Users would qualify for one or the other of those programs depending on where the greater benefit and need is, but it is based on a low-income cut off. If you qualify, what it means is you get a rebate based on what your actual expenses are. That’s work that’s built into the systems that would be created.
What it means is that every bill is just half as impactful. When you talk about families making sacrifices of medicines and groceries, it’s just that much more money that’s available for those things, and it’s ongoing rather than just once a year. Four hundred dollars means a lot for many families, but it’s one time versus ongoing support based on actual need.
LISA LACHANCE: I wanted to turn to Mr. Lanteigne. Obviously, you hear a lot about people’s concerns about the cost of energy. During the rate increase hearings, did you have a chance to meet with the Minister of Energy during that process? What steps did you recommend to the minister at that time in terms of increasing affordability now for Nova Scotians?
THE CHAIR: Mr. Lanteigne.
CHRIS LANTEIGNE: I did not meet with the Minister of Energy, and I’m not aware of any meetings that actually occurred.
LISA LACHANCE: Have you been able to provide input into the minister’s office or to the minister about where Nova Scotia Power sees opportunities for increasing affordability immediately for Nova Scotians?
CHRIS LANTEIGNE: From my perspective, we spend a lot of time - myself included - actually meeting with members of the folks across this table - the Affordable Energy Coalition. There are certain members of the government departments that we meet with on a regular basis to talk about ways that we can help support our customers - Nova Scotians - with affordability concerns.
In terms of direct engagement on the recommendations of the Energy Poverty Task Force, we have not been in direct contact with the minister’s or the Premier’s Office. That said, we’ve stated in these committees before, and publicly as well, that as further discussion around the Energy Poverty Task Force or any related programs exist, Nova Scotia Power will definitely be at the table and participating in those conversations.
LISA LACHANCE: Since the May 1st increase in power bills for Nova Scotians, do you expect to see the need to help more Nova Scotians to afford their power?
CHRIS LANTEIGNE: Yes. We know that the rising cost of everything is increasing, as other members of the panel talked about - whether it’s rent, food, shelter. Energy prices are going up. We know that there’s never a good time for a rate increase. Through the regulated process and the hearings that happened earlier this year, Nova Scotia Power has done what we can to keep rates as low as possible. We do know that any cost-of-living increases can put pressure on people. It is something that we’re definitely concerned about. We want to do everything we can to help support our customers.
LISA LACHANCE: Last year, or before the May 1st increase, about 8 percent of households were behind on their power bills. How will Nova Scotia Power support Nova Scotians going forward when they can’t pay their bills?
CHRIS LANTEIGNE: I know I’m running out of time, but really quickly, what we have been doing, really since last April and even prior to that, is making sure that customers know they have options that are available to them, whether it’s taking their balances and spreading them out interest-free if they run into challenges and they’re unable to pay them. We’re going to continue to do that. We’re going to continue to listen to other representative stakeholders from across the communities just to ensure we’re doing everything we can within our control.
That’s the big thing for us. We want customers to know that if they’re worried about a balance, they can reach out to us. We are here to help.
THE CHAIR: MLA Lachance, you have 15 seconds.
LISA LACHANCE: Thank you. I’ll pass it on.
THE CHAIR: We’ll move on to MLA Mombourquette, please.
HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Twenty minutes and ten seconds. Thanks, everyone, for being here. I appreciate the opportunity to have a conversation about what’s really impacting a lot of families. Listening intently to the comments from the opening remarks - you know, it’s important, some of the funding that the deputy minister mentioned - ultimately, the feds put the money on the table and then the Province has to put money in to actually receive the federal funds. I argue it’s not the Province attracting the feds. It’s actually the feds putting that money on the table.
I do want to dive right in. I’ll start off with Nova Scotia Power. Over the last year, there have been many high-profile cases where Nova Scotia Power customers were issued bills that were significantly higher than they should have been. During the power rate hearing in January, Nova Scotia Power agreed to improve their high-bill detection and response processes.
What changes have been made to ensure that Nova Scotians never face these issues again?
THE CHAIR: Mr. Lanteigne.
CHRIS LANTEIGNE: I do acknowledge that over the course of the past year, there have definitely been billing concerns that our customers have shared with us. We take those very seriously. It is something that we do. We apologize to our customers that those experiences did happen.
I think the one thing I wanted to start with and note is that in the Natural Resources and Economic Development Committee back in November, we did talk about how we were on track for having our meters reconnected at the end of March. The first thing to indicate is that that did occur. We started issuing bills to customers based on true usage with over-the-air data on December 23rd, and we’ve seen the amount of bills with true reads, if you will - not estimated - increase dramatically from December to the end of March. Really over the course of the last six weeks, that experience has been back to normal.
I think that was a really important first step for us - to ensure that we’re getting true reads on bills again so that customers are getting the actual usage that they do have.
A couple of other pieces that are really important to note: as we have worked through the last few months, the situation we’re dealing with was, in terms of higher bills, definitely exacerbated by the fact that we peak usage in winter. As bills were high, we wanted to make sure customers knew that they could reach out to us and talk to us.
We’ve been working internally to try to ensure that we can flag bills that are high before they go out, have a look at them, and even in cases practically reach out to customers so that we can talk about that situation with them. We do understand that it can be an impact.
I do believe that the return of that normal level of bills going out with actual meter readings is going to significantly assist with this. It’s going to continue to be our focus to talk to any customer who has concerns and try to help them out.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Nova Scotia Power recently, of course, received a rate increase, which our caucus opposed at the Nova Scotia Energy Board meeting.
My question through you, Chair, is how many customers are currently in arrears with Nova Scotia Power bills?
CHRIS LANTEIGNE: I know a couple of weeks ago, I did talk that the latest data was about 8 percent of customers who were in arrears. At this point in time, it is about 8.7 percent. I was sharing data at the beginning of the month and we have the end-of-month data, so that’s about a month’s difference between it.
I just want to clearly state and reiterate, because I think this is really important, is that our goal is going to be to support those customers to manage those balances. We want to ensure that they understand they have options available to them to spread the balances out. We’ve been really promoting that since the cyber incident affected us last year, and we’re going to continue to do that because we want to make sure everybody’s aware that they have those options to help manage any outstanding amounts.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I’m going to move to the Department of Energy. I’ll say this: One of the themes that’s come out of this - and we’ve said it publicly before - is that you have the Premier who’s also the Minister of Energy. You hear a lot of talk about energy. We’re hearing offshore - there’s a bid. We’re hearing offshore wind, but what we’re not hearing the minister talk about is energy poverty. It’s like it’s happening from the side of his desk.
I would argue that you’d need an independent Minister of Energy. You need a person who is solely responsible for the Energy portfolio who can not only work on the opportunities that may be in front of the Province and the programs - the wonderful programs that you all are involved with, trying to support people based on the decisions of the government but there needs to be a full-time Energy Minister in this Province based on everything that’s happening. I want to put that on the record today because obviously the challenge becomes that governments make decisions, ministers make decisions. I argue that when it comes to the energy poverty side of things, it’s being done from the side of the minister’s desk.
My first question to the Department of Energy, and my colleague has talked about this too: Nova Scotians are clearly struggling with the cost of energy. At the same time, the government is reducing support available through programs like the Heating Assistance Rebate Program which was cut substantially last year. Gas is now $2 per litre, and Nova Scotians have some of the highest energy poverty in the country. We want the government to take more action. What is the Department of Energy going to do to help Nova Scotians even more to afford these increased costs?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister MacDonald.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: I should take a minute just to comment on the MLA’s previous comments about the Premier/Minister of Energy. I think it’s important to note the actions that the Province has taken around energy affordability, the price of energy, whether that’s electricity or the use of oil to heat homes in the province. I think the range of actions demonstrated both in the immediate term to help Nova Scotians, but also those actions that are more structural in nature to help stabilize the price, make it more predictable, make it based on local energy sources. Energy security is such an important topic right now for any jurisdiction. Those are all priorities of the Premier as Minister of Energy and, I guess, as Premier. I think those actions are very tangible.
On the question around what the Province is doing around the cost of energy/energy affordability, I think it’s important to look at energy and energy poverty and energy affordability through three different lenses. One is the price of energy, the second is the usage of that energy, and the third is around incomes which is a key determinant to whether or not someone is facing energy affordability or energy poverty challenges.
On the price of energy, the Province has done several things. On the most recent general rate application, the Province was a very strong intervenor - opposed the general rate application. The Premier, through written remarks to the Nova Scotia Energy Board - made the Province’s position clear. Although the Energy Board did approve a rate increase, it was not as large as what Nova Scotia Power had asked for. There are also several other initiatives that the Province has undertaken to help stabilize the price of energy.
THE CHAIR: Order, please. MLA Mombourquette.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Sorry, Deputy Minister. I’m dealing with limited time, and you mentioned some of these things in your opening comments. I do want to continue on. At the April 28th Public Accounts Committee meeting, my colleague asked the deputy minister for an update on the government’s full review of Nova Scotia Power. At the time, the deputy minister said they needed more information before providing an update for the review. Through you, Chair, a question to the deputy minister: Do you have any additional information on the status of the review? Nova Scotians are wondering.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: Look, what I would say is that the Province has done significant work to review and restructure the electricity system. That work has taken place over the last several years. One of the first major initiatives that I want to point to that’s occurred is the creation of the Clean Electricity Solutions Task Force. This was a two-member panel that was appointed in April 2023 to propose changes, to look at modernizing our electricity system, and ensure that Nova Scotians have access to clean, reliable, and affordable energy. The task force presented its report in February 2024.
One of the key things coming out of the recommendations of that task force was the Energy Reform Act of 2024. This Act introduced more transparency to our electricity system. It also did two very impactful things. One was that it helped establish the creation of an Independent Energy System Operator. This non-profit organization, which has since been stood up, will look after procurement of new energy resources, and importantly, it’s also responsible for long-term planning for the electricity system. It’ll help ensure that decisions around future procurements of energy assets - all of which Nova Scotians pay for - are done in the best interests of Nova Scotians.
[9:45 a.m.]
The second impactful thing coming out of the Energy Reform Act and the recommendations of the Clean Electricity Solutions Task Force was the creation of a stand-alone Energy Board with a focus on electricity energy systems. That’s incredibly important as we look to the transformation that our electricity system and our energy systems are going through.
The final point I’ll mention is that to help enable all of this, and one of the key things in legislation, the commitment - or goal - to achieve 80 percent of renewables by 2030, is the development and implementation of the Clean Power Plan. That sets out the pathway for how this province will hit that 80-percent renewable goal by 2030. The plan itself includes many components - the development of wind resources, battery storage - but importantly, it helps Nova Scotians have access to a predicable and stable supply of electricity.
In terms of a review of Nova Scotia Power, I think it’s important to consider the actions that have been taken for a review and changes to the broader electricity and energy system, in which Nova Scotia Power is a player.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I’m going to move on to EfficiencyOne and give everybody a chance to answer some questions today.
It’s been over a year since EfficiencyOne stopped accepting solar homes applications, a program that helped thousands of Nova Scotians save millions on energy bills. To Efficiency Nova Scotia and the departments: Is there any ongoing discussion to resume the residential solar funding programs?
THE CHAIR: We’ll go to Ms. Casey first, please.
MARTHA CASEY: Right now, we’re very focused on programs that primarily support low- and moderate-income customers. We’re always open and in conversations with our funding partners, both provincially and federally, about what best meets the needs for Nova Scotians. This is a conversation that we continue to have, but right now, the focus is on those low- or moderate-income programs.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I can appreciate that. We all have that focus. We also - a lot of middle-income families utilized that program. It also put a lot of people to work across the province, where we saw the number of installations, of course, go up. It was considered the best program in the country at one point.
I do want to ask a couple more questions about it. Had the solar panel installations gone down since the program ended last year?
MARTHA CASEY: I’d just like to acknowledge your comments. We’re very proud of that program as well - not just the impact it had for customers but the economic impact it had across the province.
In terms of the number of installations, I’ll ask my colleague Rob Burns.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Burns.
ROBERT BURNS: Of course we don’t have data province-wide on how many installations have been done since that particular program closed, so I couldn’t say with any degree of certainty if overall the number of installations of solar in the province has gone down.
What I can say, however, is that this program has been extremely impactful. It has helped over 6,000 homeowners install solar PV systems since launching in 2018. Participants saved an average of about $2,000 a year on their energy bills and collectively saved about $12.5 million annually on the energy bills.
It’s important to note, however, that this program is designed to exist for a set period of time. The intent of this program was to help establish a solar industry in Nova Scotia. Over time, the incentives for that program did ratchet down as the industry became more self-sufficient. We don’t have, as I said, the exact specific data to say whether installations that are done via the industry as a whole have decreased, but what we can say is that this program seeded an industry that is now very successful in the province.
DEREK MOMOBOURQUETTE: Following that question, I know the solar homes applications closed in April 2025, but approved projects had to be completed by March 31, 2026. What percentage of the approved projects were not completed by March 31st? If they’re not completed, is there an opportunity to extend that deadline to make sure they are?
ROBERT BURNS: Funding for that program has ceased. When that program closure was initially announced, we did have a wait-list because, of course, upon ending of the program, we did receive quite a significant number of applications. When we did an audit of how much funding was available at the end of that program, we were able to work through quite a bit of that wait-list. I believe the number of applications that came in that were ultimately not fulfilled was less than 150 individual applications. The program, like I said, is now closed so there’s no opportunity or funding remaining within that funding pot in order to fulfil those particular projects.
However, I will say there are some supports that the Province currently funds for solar in general. That’s associated with a program that we have that is called EnergyForward New Homes. That particular program will help new homeowners adopt solar in the interest of getting their energy costs down on new builds.
THE CHAIR: MLA Mombourquette with four minutes.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Four minutes, okay. I’ll continue. This probably will be for Efficiency Nova Scotia as well. The Canada Greener Homes Grant and Canada Greener Homes Loan was funded by Natural Resources Canada and administered by Efficiency Nova Scotia. Unfortunately, these programs, which supported over 25,000 grants being issued in Nova Scotia, ended last year.
The end of the federally funded programs is driving up unit costs for Nova Scotians. How has the end of the Canada Greener Homes Initiative impacted Nova Scotians looking to save money on their power bills?
MARTHA CASEY: All of these programs impact what customers save and the experience they have - what they’re paying for energy. In terms of the specific quantification of the impact, I’ll ask my colleague Rob Burns.
ROBERT BURNS: As my colleague Ms. Casey had mentioned, we do have a suite of programs that are aimed at helping low-income and moderate-income Nova Scotians to save money on their energy bills. Canada Greener Homes Initiative was one of those, but we still have what I would call unprecedented levels of funding from both the federal government and the provincial government to support our programming for energy efficiency for low-income individuals. Those programs continue to be extremely impactful. While the winding down of sometimes specific programs can also create, I would say, concern and stress, the program portfolio as a whole to support these particular groups of the population are very, very strong right now, and we have ongoing funding in order to support.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: It is an important conversation. I remember back - way back when, I guess - we were looking at a lot of programs. Over 11,000 low-income places were done through Efficiency. I remember those days. I talked to a lot of landlords within communities who are really struggling with the power bills themselves.
Are you looking at incentives for landlords? Of course, we want to support the family that is living within the unit, but we’ve tabled legislation as a caucus over the years to look at what incentives could be there for the actual landlord themselves to apply for their buildings that would help drive down their cost as well. We see people getting out of the business because it’s just the cost of doing business. For some of the landlords that have smaller volumes of units across the province are saying we just can’t do it anymore. So through you, Chair, with the time remaining, I think this will probably be my last question for this round.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Burns, with one minute.
ROBERT BURNS: Quickly, we do have a program, it’s called Affordable Multifamily Housing Program, and there are streams of that program that provide incentives for owners of those units whether they be multi-unit residential units, shelters, or transition houses, or non-profit support services that can help them save up to 100 percent of energy efficiency upgrade costs. Those help keep rents down for people, so those benefits flow directly to the renter because participants in this program are required to keep rent at affordable levels in order to qualify for the program.
THE CHAIR: Do you want your last 25 seconds, MLA Mombourquette?
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Why not? I appreciate it. I will reiterate though that in the questioning that we’ve heard today and before, multiple requests for meetings have not happened with the Energy Minister. People and organizations are not getting access to the minister. There should be a full-time minister of that department.
THE CHAIR: We will move on to MLA MacLeod, please.
MARCO MACLEOD: This question is directed to Efficiency Nova Scotia. I was curious, in your organization and in your operations, are there any internal targets, perhaps in terms of how many homes you’re looking to renovate or make more energy-efficient, or even how many heat pumps you’d like to install in Nova Scotia homes? Or maybe your goal is just to deliver funds as quickly as possible to those who need it. Can you describe if you have any internal goals or targets?
THE CHAIR: Ms. Casey.
MARTHA CASEY: Every single one of our programs has targets associated with it, and it’s not just a matter of getting a number of heat pumps. It’s what measures best benefit the customers, so we try to always be responsive to customer needs rather than just be prescriptive. On the regulated side, we issue quarterly reports outlining exactly what our performance is against those targets and we’re very proud of how we’ve performed historically. Similarly, with all of our provincial programs, we meet with the department regularly, and our partners to review those targets. We’ve been very pleased. It’s focused on the number of customers, and what measures we’ve installed, depending on what the program requires.
MARCO MACLEOD: Several of the programs that you have are targeted to improving the efficiency of homes, making them air-tight. I know it’s hard to quantify, but is there a number of not only the money savings but how much less energy we are using due to those efficiencies? What is the impact on the grid, and with that number in mind, if there is one, is it enough to affect power rates?
MARTHA CASEY: That is one of our specific targets that we report annually, and I’ll ask my colleague to let us know what that number is, but in the meantime, some of the work that we do together with Nova Scotia Power focusing on how we can support the grid is power that, at peak times, how we can work with customers to use less power during those periods to ensure that the grid isn’t overtaxed. We’ve ramped up those programs in recent years and we’ve seen great success. Maybe if I could ask my colleague too.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Burns.
ROBERT BURNS: As Ms. Casey said in her opening statements, we are an organization of accountability, and the work that we do on behalf of ratepayers in Nova Scotia through our demand-side management programing is audited in a very detailed way for the energy savings and the benefit that we provide to the grid. In order for those programs to be approved for delivery through that mechanism, they have to provide more benefit to the ratepayer than the cost. It varies from year to year, but typically the energy savings that we generate through our demand-side management programming on behalf of the ratepayers of Nova Scotia is on the order of 120 gigawatt hours.
[10:00 a.m.]
Those programs have real impact to the grid. They also have real impact to the ratepayer. What we’re talking about here is affordability.
I’ll just give an example. For the demand-side management planning that we have before the Nova Scotia Energy Board currently, we anticipate that that will generate over $650 million in direct-energy bill savings. That’s just direct bill savings. That’s not the broader benefit to the electricity system, to the ratepayers of Nova Scotia, based on an investment that is obviously much less than that - somewhere in the $300-million range.
MARCO MACLEOD: I’m going to repackage a question that MLA Lachance asked earlier, but I’ll direct it to Efficiency Nova Scotia. It has to do with residents and Nova Scotians - ratepayers. How do they know which programs they’re eligible for? I’m assuming your website is a one-stop shop, but a lot of times the folks coming into our MLA offices, maybe they’re not as well-versed in technology and maybe that’s a barrier. What’s the best way for folks to see if they can qualify for these programs?
MARTHA CASEY: You’re right, our website is a one-stop shop. But we also have a contact centre that has staff available who are very familiar with all of our programs. People are able to reach out. We have an information-management system that’s able to direct our staff on how to advise customers on what program or programs would be most beneficial.
We’ve also undertaken an exercise to make - much like MLA Lachance had mentioned about efficiency and how customers actually understand what programs are available to them - we’ve tried to consolidate this a little bit so that it’s more accessible for the everyday person. I acknowledge that it can be quite confusing. There are a number of things on the table. There may be fewer program names, but more customers can actually access them.
We also have navigators who support some of our customers in actually stepping through from beginning to end the upgrades and what best steps they can take. Somebody may call and say, “I’d like to have a heat pump,” but that doesn’t actually make sense for them. We’ll actually walk them through what upgrades would be better for them in their specific circumstance.
We recognize that there is some complexity, but it’s not one-size-fits-all.
THE CHAIR: MLA Wong.
HON. BRIAN WONG: Thank you all for being here today. A couple of comments, and then my questions are to be directed to the Department of Energy and perhaps Service Nova Scotia.
Nobody was happy with the power rate increase that was recently approved by the Nova Scotia Energy Board. Given time, given place, it was not a good call to have Nova Scotians pay for electricity.
I have a question that’s looking back and a question looking forward. Looking back to 2021, what are the measures that have been taken in order to help stabilize energy prices for Nova Scotians and to protect them from having electricity costs even go higher? I know some programs have already been mentioned. I would like to hear what has happened and what the impact is.
Then moving forward, we know that the Energy Minister has been travelling the world to try to sell Nova Scotia’s natural resources - our wind, our green hydrogen, the resources we have beneath our feet. What are the things that are happening right now and moving forward? Even thinking about what’s been talked about today is mostly targeted programs, but the other side of that, if Nova Scotians - if the government is giving back money through targeted programs, what’s the potential to increase the incomes of everybody across Nova Scotia? That’s kind of what I’m looking at. Maybe I’ll start with Mr. MacDonald.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister MacDonald.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: If the Chair would allow, perhaps my colleague Mr. Craig could take the first part of the question on - what’s been done around the price of electricity. You okay to jump in?
THE CHAIR: Mr. Craig.
PETER CRAIG: Government has undertaken a number of measures since 2021. I will try to do them in order but forgive me if they get out of place a bit.
Starting with greenhouse gas relief for Nova Scotia Power. Due to do some compliance issues with Maritime Link that would have placed Nova Scotia Power in a position where they would have had to - I don’t want to call it a fine, but would have had to contribute to government in a way that would have disprivileged ratepayers. Government waived that. That was $165 million that ratepayers did not have to pay that time. Similarly, a number of the problems associated with rates stem from the same cause: delays associated with the Muskrat Falls Maritime Link project. Government was instrumental in ensuring that those costs and delays did not make it through to ratepayers. Similarly, there was an alternative compliance plan for sulfur regulations from stack emissions that sought to provide Nova Scotia Power the flexibility to ensure that while still complying with the overall amount of sulfur admitted into the atmosphere, that that emission would be spread across an appropriate timeframe that would ensure ratepayers were not saddled with additional cost burden for compliance that wasn’t practical, given the expectation that the Maritime Link would be online.
Following on the Maritime Link issue, a significant amount of extra fuel cost was forced to be expended by Nova Scotia Power on behalf of ratepayers to maintain electricity service while, at the same time, paying for the construction of the Maritime Link. To ensure that those costs didn’t make it through to ratepayers, as Deputy Minister MacDonald mentioned, government facilitated a loan system of $117 million directly to ratepayers to ensure that that funding would not be passed through.
Again, government was instrumental in ensuring that a federal loan guarantee of $500 million was prepared and exercised on behalf of ratepayers to expand the Maritime Link loan up by $500 million and push that across the 35 years associated with that program to substantially reduce rates. I think it was reported that in that time, rates would have gone up by 19 percent. Instead, that was reduced down to 2 percent associated with that. That’s on top of some work we did back in the 2022 rate hearing to try to limit rate increases. That’s on top of - as MLA MacLeod’s questions were - the efficiency programming that has been put in place, the restructuring activities that government has undertaken to ensure that decisions are made that ensure energy efficiency is being directed in a way that lowers overall bills, not just for the individuals who participate in the programming. It removes the need to build resources that would otherwise have been necessary and removes those future costs from Nova Scotians.
Maybe what I would say is the most important single initiative is the future-looking - and I say this because we must divide affordability into a short-term, medium-term, and long-term. The short-term are some of the programs that government has already talked about, but the medium-term and long-term must be taken on because these decisions that are made today will impact ratepayers long into the future. Energy infrastructure is slow to build, and when it is built, it exists for a long time. Ratepayers pay for it during that entire period. Government has made a massive change by taking the decision-making out of the for-profit entity Nova Scotia Power and placing long-term planning with the not-for-profit, Independent Energy System Operator. This will ensure that the implementation of the Clean Power Plan and any long-term planning issues going forward will be made purely in the interest of ratepayers with no other possible avenue.
I think that way, we will quickly see if you’re following the regulatory system, that the implementation of ISO is going to start saving customers money quite quickly within the next few years, and decision-making will be more transparent. It will be more straightforward to see what that decision-making is. I stress that these infrastructure decisions, while they don’t appear as immediately impactful as the programmatic ones, are perhaps more important in the long term.
The procurement of wind energy in particular is instrumental in removing that exposure of electricity ratepayers to market volatility in the form of world fossil fuel prices. I think we’re going through a period right now where - I know we can’t all see the numbers, but if we had not taken the steps of wind procurement that we have done, ratepayers would be much more exposed to that fossil fuel price increase than they are today. I will leave it there.
THE CHAIR: MLA Wong, do you want to hear from Deputy Minister MacDonald as well?
BRIAN WONG: I just have a comment.
THE CHAIR: Go ahead, MLA Wong.
BRIAN WONG: Thank you for that. There are things that you mentioned that I think a lot of people don’t understand. It’s been a while as well. What I’d like to hear a little bit more about are the initiatives that the Energy Minister is currently doing and the potential impact for Nova Scotians on stability for energy prices. Mr. MacDonald, if you could.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister MacDonald.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: My colleague Mr. Craig covered some of those items in his response, but I’ll touch on a few additional ones. Nova Scotia is blessed with natural resources and the development of those natural resources, whether they are onshore, offshore wind, offshore oil and gas, onshore gas, solar. They present not only an opportunity to stabilize and ensure more predictability in our energy prices going forward, but also to develop our local economy. These are significant industries.
The development of offshore wind, through the Wind West project, has enormous potential to provide Canada, other jurisdictions, and potentially Nova Scotia, with an abundance of clean energy. There are some estimates that Wind West can supply as much as 20 to 25 percent of Canada’s entire electricity use, as grids across Canada and the economy electrifies. That source of clean, reliable and predictable energy through offshore wind will be so critical to this province’s economy.
The Premier, as Minister of Energy, and staff from the department have been actively promoting this resource to other jurisdictions, ensuring that there is a market in place, there is interest for developing this resource. That extends also to the offshore oil and gas and the onshore gas part as well. Nova Scotia’s estimated reserves of onshore gas are significant and can supply the province with its natural gas needs for upwards of 200 years. Gas that is currently used in the province is all imported. We have the resource here locality that will provide good jobs, stabilize the price, lower the price over time, but also help with the economy.
I’ll just make a couple of additional points. Something that Mr. Craig talked about, which has been ongoing for several years is the development of onshore wind projects. I’m sure that all Nova Scotians have seen to some extent or another that wind turbines are increasing across the province. Those projects provide good local jobs, both in construction and ongoing maintenance and servicing of those wind turbines. Land holders who lease space or rights-of-way for both the turbines and any transmission often receive a royalty. That’s income. It’s often in rural Nova Scotia where these wind turbines are located. But also, they’re being procured at a very competitive price compared to the rising cost of coal, for example, or importing natural gas. It’s a real success story for the province.
The final piece I’ll mention, which was talked about here this morning, but I think it’s important to mention, is energy efficiency. Energy efficiency is an industry in the province and it’s an important part of the energy industry and the economic side of the energy industry. My colleagues from EfficiencyOne can speak in more detail about the numbers, but I think there’s something like 5,000 direct jobs in the province just in the energy efficiency industry. That’s all of the electricians, contractors selling heat pumps, doing maintenance, doing installation, building contractors who do all the work in this industry, which is an incredibly important part of making sure that energy is affordable. Nova Scotians are only using the energy they require, but it’s a very impactful industry in the province.
THE CHAIR: MLA MacGillivray with 45 seconds.
DANNY MACGILLIVRAY: Just very quickly - this is for Mr. Lanteigne. I’m actually not going to get this off in 45 seconds.
THE CHAIR: You can try.
DANNY MACGILLIVRAY: I’d like to thank all the witnesses for being here this morning and taking time out of your busy day. Thank you.
THE CHAIR: We’ll get back to you. MLA Lachance, please.
LISA LACHANCE: This is the speed round. I understand I have 10 minutes. I wanted to return to the HARP numbers. Looking at the math, that means that for the Heating Assistance Rebate Program, 54 percent fewer households were funded in the past year and there was a 70 percent reduction in funding. At a time when energy poverty is getting worse, I’m wondering what’s next with this program. Are further reductions anticipated?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Munro.
JOANNE MUNRO: What I will say is that the year of this budget 2026-27, the budget for HARP is $33.1 million, which is the same as the budget last year. With all the cuts that have come across, we know it’s been a very tough year; tough decisions. The HARP budget has and will remain the same for the year coming. The program closes March 31st - we take care of the applications that stagger through, and the program’s now been wrapped. It’s a data-rich program for us, because it is our most mature online service. We now are in the mode of: Where do we have opportunities to potentially look at options for the HARP, while maintaining within the budget? So that’s where we are now.
LISA LACHANCE: Has the current Minister of Energy met with the current Minister of Service Nova Scotia to talk about HARP and to talk about the other energy affordability programs that are available?
JOANNE MUNRO: Conversations across departments happen all the time at the staff level. Our minister has not met specifically with the Premier on the energy affordability programs, but certainly staff members are in touch regularly and share.
LISA LACHANCE: Of course, I know that there’s lots of cooperation that’s happening amongst staff, but I think that one really important point is that the Minister of Energy needs to be responding to Nova Scotians and their needs now, medium-term, and long-term. Not having met with the Energy Poverty Task Force, not having met with the minister to talk about HARP, which is a key part of affordability, I think it’s really concerning in terms of the emphasis where, ironically, the energy of the Energy Minister is being put. Nova Scotians need help now and in the future.
Turning to Deputy Minister MacDonald: Again, there are various different programs, we just heard about HARP and its enormous reduction in funding and support, but we also heard two weeks ago at NRED Committee that some municipalities are also engaging in supporting their residents in terms of responding to energy costs and power costs. The Town of Bridgewater, for instance, is providing some support. I’m wondering: Is the Minister of Energy concerned about a patchwork approach emerging across the province where some municipalities will have the capacity to offer additional support to their residents and to Nova Scotians, whereas a couple of exits down the highway, other municipalities won’t be in a position to provide that kind of support?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister MacDonald.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: What I would say is that municipalities are often at the front lines and the closest to those individuals and families who are facing challenges around energy affordability and energy poverty. A number of municipalities in the province - the Town of Bridgewater, you noted, and Halifax Regional Municipality comes to mind as well - have implemented a number of supports or very progressive measures to help with energy affordability.
I know that the department works very closely with municipalities, and has over the years, to ensure that they have the knowledge, the support, and other resources, if applicable, to help support those initiatives. I do know that through Efficiency Nova Scotia, there are programs - I’m thinking specifically of the energy manager program, which is in part supported financially by the Province. My colleagues at Efficiency Nova Scotia could talk about that program in more detail. There are a number of embedded Energy Managers with municipalities who do provide very specific support, often technical in nature, which can be difficult to come by.
LISA LACHANCE: Has the current Minister of Energy sat down with the Minister of Municipal Affairs and/or folks from the NSFM to talk about how municipalities are responding to energy poverty in their communities?
STEPHEN MACDONALD: I’m not aware of that meeting taking place since I’ve been appointed deputy minister. I can follow up to see whether or not that has taken place previously.
LISA LACHANCE: How much time do I have left?
THE CHAIR: Four minutes.
LISA LACHANCE: This is our rapid-fire session. It’s going very well.
Previously, the former president and CEO of Nova Scotia Power met frequently with government. I’m wondering: Has the new president and CEO met with the Energy Minister?
STEPHEN MACDONALD: I don’t believe that meeting has occurred. I did meet with the new CEO of Nova Scotia Power twice last week. But I’m not aware of whether the Minister of Energy/Premier has met with that individual.
LISA LACHANCE: From the discussion around efficiency - as an industry, as a source of jobs, and as a source of jobs that can be now - we can have more people involved in the energy efficiency sector starting today or starting tomorrow.
I guess I’m wondering, and perhaps Ms. Casey could comment on this - are we training enough people in Nova Scotia for the efficiency sector?
THE CHAIR: Ms. Casey.
MARTHA CASEY: We believe there is always an opportunity to do more, but we do have programs in place to work - one of our programs is called the Efficiency Preferred Partner network. This enables contractors and other partners to be able to access training materials and things that would help recruit and retain staff, and also to develop their skills as the industry evolves.
We also have programs that reach communities across the province starting from a young age, so that people are aware of what opportunities may be out there. It may not be obvious. MLA Lachance, you’d mentioned that there are all kinds of things people could be doing. We just want people to be aware of that.
LISA LACHANCE: A question for Deputy Minister MacDonald. Has the Minister of Energy looked at the workforce implications and opportunities in energy efficiency?
STEPHEN MACDONALD: What I would say to that is that in my time as deputy minister, I’ve not spoken to the Premier/Minister about those initiatives. I do feel confident in saying that over my 14 years - 10 years as CEO with EfficiencyOne and during the Premier’s time as an Opposition MLA - I’m confident that he’s well aware of the opportunities and very supportive of the jobs in this sector.
LISA LACHANCE: I think, though, that really being aware but also getting down to the hard numbers - what are the opportunities? Who are we training? How many people are entering the workforce? Again, this idea that we hear a lot about the long-term energy projects that are 10 years or 20 years out in terms of their potential for employment, which is important, but there are employment opportunities now for Nova Scotians and around rural Nova Scotia. All the things that we hear about, we could be doing now. I guess I would be curious for a bit more detail - if not the minister, then yourself - in terms of what you’re tracking, in terms of graduates from different programs, and the efficiency workforce.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister MacDonald with 20 seconds.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: There are tremendous opportunities in the province through energy efficiency, but also the broader economic opportunities associated with developing our resources. The Nova Scotia Community College, I’m aware, has enhanced over the years its opportunities for training education for the workforce.
THE CHAIR: Order, please. I apologize. I’m going to move onto MLA Mombourquette. Perhaps he will allow the deputy minister to finish his answer. Just asking.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I only have 10 minutes.
THE CHAIR: All right, MLA Mombourquette.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Listen, I appreciate that it is rapid-fire time, but I do want to say this. I appreciate everybody being here. I’ve had the opportunity to work with many of you over the years on some really great projects that have supported people across this province who needed it the most. But I am calling out publicly that I believe we need an independent Minister of Energy.
To my colleague’s point, the Premier and Energy Minister is out travelling around like everybody else did. He was down in Texas. I travelled with some of you down to Texas - OTC, talking with companies, promoting the offshore, promoting offshore wind, doing all of the things that are necessary and important to ensure that we’re doing whatever we can to unlock the potential of this province. But obviously, based on what I’m hearing today when it comes to our most vulnerable Nova Scotians and some of the most important topics that we need to be discussing to support people in this province, those people are not getting through the door to meet with the Minister of Energy. They’re not - because he doesn’t need to hold both titles.
There’s always been an independent Energy Minister in this province. That was the key person who met with energy partners, whether it was offshore wind, whether it was onshore or offshore resource development, whether it was supporting Nova Scotians who needed help the most, a clear path of communication with the leadership of Nova Scotia Power. There was always access because we always needed it because there was always something. This file is always evolving. What we’re learning today in this committee is that people are not getting through the door to meet the minister. That is not a reflection of the department at all; wonderful staff within the department who work hard every day to support Nova Scotians.
Obviously, there is a problem here when I hear over and over again that people are requesting meetings or questions are being asked if the Minister of Energy has met on critical aspects of supporting people at a time when power rates are where they are. People are struggling to make ends meet and to pay their bills. Those conversations that need to happen at a political level, that need to happen at that political leadership level, are not happening.
I’m calling for an independent Energy minister. We need that so people can have the conversations and the access that they need to the elected leadership within that department. I wanted to say that. That is clear to me that it’s happening, and it shouldn’t be. The Premier can still be the Premier, and he can still travel and promote all of the things that Premiers promote but having an independent Energy minister matters. It does in this case, especially when this file is impacting Nova Scotians severely in some cases - and it’s always evolving. I probably used half my time on that.
I do want to talk about the offshore opportunities - because they are. You know what I mean? Wind West is the name of it today. Back in the day, Mr. Craig, we were talking about this ourselves - looking at potential in the offshore. I just want to try to get a timeline from your perspective - in the quickest way possible because I’ll have a couple other questions if I can get them in. What does the timeline look like? In a perfect scenario, we have bids, there are companies, they come in, you’ve still got to move that power. What does that infrastructure look like? What kind of timeline do you figure in the best-case scenario?
[10:30 a.m.]
STEPHEN MACDONALD: If I could just clarify: Are you referring to offshore wind or offshore oil and gas?
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Offshore wind.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: Offshore wind. This is a very long-term project. This is a brand-new resource that’s being developed off the coast of Nova Scotia. There are no offshore wind farms in Canada, so the development period is quite a long period of time. It’s also being done in combination with our partners at the federal government. This is a joint jurisdictional issue. The Premier as Minister of Energy and the federal Minister of Natural Resource and Renewables have agreed to co-operate and work very closely on making sure that the regulatory regime for setting up offshore wind is in place. The Premier is working very hard to create interest in the offshore opportunity.
I should also recognize and acknowledge the efforts of MLA MacLeod who is the ministerial assistant to the Minister of Energy who has also been doing a lot of heavy lifting on this file and many other energy-related files. (Interruption)
THE CHAIR: Go ahead, Mr. MacDonald. Ignore him.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: It is very much a long-term project. What I can say is that the focus of the department - this is one of the priorities of the department. There is a tremendous amount of focus that is being placed on this to ensure that this is a resource that we can develop for the benefit of Nova Scotians and all Canadians.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I should have waited until my microphone was on. I said, “Well, make MLA MacLeod the minister, then.” Make him the permanent minister of the department. You know what? I’m sure he’d work hard, and that’s what Nova Scotians deserve - an independent minister.
Let’s talk about the offshore oil and gas. We have a bid - and we talk about the potential in trying to find our own resource around fluctuating fuel prices around the world. We have one company that’s come in. They’ve placed a bid. Is everything on track? They have the money in place now to start the work, or do they have to raise it? I’m just trying to get an update for Nova Scotians. I’ve dealt with a few of the companies who have come and gone over the years, so just curious to hear your thoughts.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: That is a process - the call for bids and the ordering of the bids - that’s being led by the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Energy Regulator. The first call for bids closed April 28th or 29th. One bid was three for two parcels. The proponent has 30 days to provide a deposit of up to 25 percent. We’re still in that 30-day window. We have no reason to have any concerns about their ability to raise money or make that deposit and eventually execute the exploration work.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I do want to ask a question around onshore wind. We saw the big project in Mersey River - the renewable to retail. I always give recognition to Stephen McNeil; it was one of his first bills that he passed when he was in government.
It’s interesting - not to play too much politics - but the federal Conservatives have come out pretty hard against that project, which is unfortunate. I hope my colleagues on the Progressive Conservative side talk to their Conservative brothers and sisters and tell them that’s wrong - that it’s actually a great project.
What opportunities are you looking at when it comes to using that legislation and the potential for more onshore wind opportunities?
STEPHEN MACDONALD: If it’s okay with the Chair, I’d like to ask Mr. Craig to respond to that.
PETER CRAIG: I’ll just start by saying that we have about 900 megawatts of wind at various stages of construction in the province right now. There’s no shortage of opportunity. We’re about to embark on another procurement and expecting another 350 megawatts of wind to result from that procurement.
That being said, certainly there’s no obstacle to further renewable to retail projects coming online. Since the introduction of that legislation, the department has received questions from prospective projects looking to set up in Nova Scotia, undertake that process, and evaluate how they could identify customers and acquire them. That’s actually intensified since the successful - I don’t want to presuppose the outcome, but the announcement of the Mersey River Wind project with Renewall has spurred a considerable re-interest in that process. I can’t really discuss the positions of those various companies, but there is no shortage of interest. There is a pretty clear opportunity there. It’s very clear that wind forms a substantial and important part of Nova Scotia’s energy future.
THE CHAIR: MLA Mombourquette with 50 seconds.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Fifty seconds. Okay. That’s not enough for a Q&A, but I just want to thank everybody for being here. You all play a really significant role in trying to support folks. We debate policies as government. We want to see more investment in certain aspects. We’re concerned about some of the cuts that have been made around some of the programs that support our most vulnerable, but I’ve seen first-hand over my political career the work that everybody does - the potential that is here for the province, what’s happening in Nova Scotia right now.
I just want to thank you all. You’re all, in some ways, advocates to help support people who are really feeling the pinch right now. We really need to do whatever we can - all of us collectively - because people are really hurting. Energy poverty is absolutely crushing families right now.
THE CHAIR: Order, please.
We will move to MLA MacGillivray, please.
DANNY MACGILLIVRAY: Just to respond to members’ concerns, I can only speak from caucus meetings, but I know that energy affordability is often a topic at caucus meetings in the conversation led by the Premier and minister, with input from ministerial assistants. I just want to put that out there.
A question for Mr. Lanteigne: You mentioned how the Salvation Army HEAT Fund supported by Nova Scotia Power - there are hundreds of people supported through that program. I would have thought the number would be more in the thousands. I’m wondering - in 2006, I was the founding chairperson of the Pictou County Fuel Fund. Mr. Benjamin mentioned fuel funds earlier. Because they’re still in existence, 20 years later - they support residents of Pictou County with hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. I’m wondering if you also support fuel funds like that - local fuel funds - in addition to the Salvation Army HEAT Fund.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Lanteigne.
CHRIS LANTEIGNE: You are right. I mentioned that the HEAT Fund program for Nova Scotia Power does support hundreds. I think this year it was just over 800 customers who were supported through it. Nova Scotia Power does make a donation every year. It’s $300,000 that we donate to that program, and of course, government helps support it as well.
In terms of the fund that you mentioned, we do not directly support it. What I will say is that we work very closely with organizations across the province. We have a dedicated low-income advocate who will work with local charities and organizations that are often working right with customers who are struggling to see if there are ways we can help them out.
Similar to conversations we’ve had on the Energy Poverty Task Force, if there are any conversations - whether it’s a local organization or a provincial program that’s under way, Nova Scotia Power is definitely happy to be at the table to talk about ways that we can best help.
DANNY MACGILLIVRAY: I’ll pass it on to my colleague MLA Timmins.
THE CHAIR: MLA Timmins.
DIANNE TIMMINS: Thank you, everybody, for coming. We can all sit around this table and we can obviously see the partnerships that are sitting here. Our Minister of Energy and our Premier encouraged those partnerships as well. It’s been obvious in the media that we’ve seen him build future partnerships and look toward the future of energy affordability and so on.
My question is to the Department of Energy. We do realize that the federal funding is ending for the oil and heat pump program, but how does our department maximize the federal funding that can be used to support energy affordability?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister MacDonald.
STEPHEN MACDONALD: What I can say is that the federal government has a strong interest in supporting energy affordability. There are probably four examples that I can give in terms of how the Province has worked with the federal government helping to support energy affordability.
The one that’s been brought up a few times this morning is energy efficiency. Since 2022, the Province has invested over $250 million of provincial monies directed toward low- and moderate-income Nova Scotians to help with energy efficiency. That’s helped to leverage over $300 million in federal funding to match that. One of the benefits of the efficiency regime we have here is the ability to combine administration for those programs to help lower the cost and ensure that more monies get directly into the walls, so to speak, of Nova Scotia homes or apartment buildings or whatnot.
The second area is around wind and battery projects. The federal government has played a fairly significant role being led by the Province in terms of identifying opportunities where the federal government can support. The Canada Infrastructure Bank has been critical in supporting a number of projects including battery storage projects and wind in the province. The transmission intertie between Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, the federal government played quite an important role in supporting that project. Again, the Province needs to help show the pathway for that. The fourth is around, as my colleague Mr. Craig mentioned, the support for the fuel adjustment mechanism at Nova Scotia Power. It was a $500 million federal loan guarantee. Although I wasn’t involved in the conversation at the time, I feel quite confident in saying that would not have happened without the advocacy efforts of the department and of the Province.
THE CHAIR: MLA Outhit, please.
TIM OUTHIT: Welcome, and thank you for being here. I love following how things evolve and change over time. This is something I like doing. Like my colleague MLA Mombourquette I don’t want to be political, but I definitely think that it’s very interesting. The importance of energy is so important to this province that the Premier has decided to make it his priority as well, bringing that added attention and profile to that. I would argue that him stepping into that role with wonderful help from our engineer here, MLA MacLeod, shows the importance that it is for him and for this province.
Talking about evolution and progress, I want to go back to HARP for a moment. Can you just tell me a little bit about how it’s evolved over the years, how you apply, how people access, and how you’re dealing with changing families and compositions of households and whatnot? Just a quick little evolution on how HARP has evolved and addressed other issues in changing things.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Munro, with three-and-a-half minutes.
JOANNE MUNRO: I’ll certainly start off with who we help with the HARP. A large component - 50 percent - is our senior population. It has evolved. It is now an online service offering with 96 percent of applications received online. That is excluding the 19,000 opt in. The team is constantly looking at how we make it easier for citizens to apply to the HARP. How we’ve evolved in building out the awareness of the program I think is important - what we do every year. Initially, everybody provided a heat bill because that’s one of the key criteria, to provide a heat bill. Really, over time, those who own a home have their heat bill and they’ve qualified. We don’t need to ask that every year.
We’ve evolved it to make it easier. Now only new applicants are required to have a heat bill. People can submit their heat bill, but it’s about making it easier. At the end of the day, there are families, single families, multiple units that some qualify for HARP with the use of electricity. The evolution of the online digital service where we get dollars out the door very quickly - about 44,000 applications came in the first week, and those we get dollars in people’s accounts two weeks later. Even though we say we advise it can take up to eight weeks, that’s evolving with people providing applications that are more complete and so on and so forth.
It has evolved. It’s a continuous improvement. With the budget that we have, we try to maximize the reach to Nova Scotians based on the eligibility that is in place at the time. That’s looked at on an annual basis as we continue on. Maybe my colleague, ADM O’Toole, could augment.
THE CHAIR: ADM O’Toole with a minute and 15 seconds.
[10:45 a.m.]
GARY O’TOOLE: Sure, I’m happy to contribute. One of the other areas that the program has evolved is, in terms of making it easier for people to apply for the program, is the opt-in through the Property Tax Rebate for Seniors. A number of years ago, there was a change in that application process that we wanted to make sure that people applying don’t need to apply twice to access critical funds for them.
Seniors, when they are applying for their property tax rebate, can check a box and opt in to HARP and their application is automatically considered as part of the HARP program as well. We’re always looking at ways we can evolve, how we can make the application shorter but still collect critical information. It’s down to, I think, a page and a half or two pages of tombstone information that we need from people to be able to apply, making it as easy as possible. We’re always looking at ways to improve the program in that way.
THE CHAIR: MLA Outhit with 20 seconds.
TIM OUTHIT: I will just say thank you very much for being here and please continue to do this important work all of you. It is appreciated and needed.
THE CHAIR: I will say two quick comments, Deputy Minister Munro. If 96 percent of the folks apply for that online, I think 50 percent of them apply from the MLA office in Dartmouth North, because when that application opens, our office is swamped for weeks.
Secondly, I will say to my esteemed colleagues, if you have to say, “I don’t mean to get political,” you’re getting political. Remember that PAC is supposed to be a multi-partisan approach. I’m just lightly reminding us all.
Thank you very much. Wondering if our guests have any quick closing remarks. Deputy Minister MacDonald - no? Deputy Minister Munro - no? Anyone else? Mr. Benjamin, please.
CHRIS BENJAMIN: I just want to reiterate that there are a number of good programs, as we have heard. Nova Scotia has the highest rate of energy poverty in the country. The last estimate I heard was 40 percent based on Efficiency Nova Scotia’s numbers. That is why we have a number of good programs - to help people in energy poverty, because it’s a serious problem here.
What the Energy Poverty Task Force got together to look at was what could be a more integrated solution that would help more households. That was based again on the Clean Electricity Solutions Task Force Recommendation No. 12, the often-forgotten recommendation to address energy poverty. We base that model on existing models, not only in Ontario, but many in the United States that have been proven effective. We had a world-renowned expert design the program based on our energy mix. It was an affordable solution at the time; the estimated cost was $30 million. That’s gone up to a little under $50 million, based on the cuts to HARP. Part of the savings of that program would be lower costs for HARP, as some of the HARP users would switch to this home energy assistance program.
It’s an affordable solution that we estimate would pull 27,500 Nova Scotian households out of energy poverty. It’s been on government desks for two years. If you haven’t already read it, I highly recommend you read it.
As we’ve heard, we are attempting to get a meeting with the Minister of Energy/Premier, to further discuss. We did meet with the previous Minister of Energy a year ago, and had a good meeting, a positive meeting, but we’ve seen no action. I urge you, for the sake of the 40 percent of this province living in energy poverty, to enact the recommendations of that report. Thank you.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Benjamin, maybe you could update our committee with a letter in the next month or six weeks, letting us know if a meeting has come up. That would be helpful for us. Thank you.
Mr. Lanteigne, do you have any closing comments? Anyone else? Great.
Well, thank you very much, folks. We have a bit of committee business, but you can take your leave, and we will continue to meet. Maybe we’ll take a one-minute recess.
[10:49 a.m. The committee recessed.]
[10:51 a.m. The committee reconvened.]
THE CHAIR: Order, please. I’d like to call the meeting back to order. Order, please. Thank you, folks.
We have a few items of business on the agenda. The first one is correspondence. We have a letter from the Department of Service Nova Scotia with information requested from the April 15th meeting. Is there any discussion on that? Great. We also have a letter from the Department of Cyber Security and Digital Solutions with information requested from the April 15th meeting. Any discussion on that? Okay, thank you.
Next, we have the endorsement of the Auditor General recommendations from the 2026 report of the Auditor General - Action for Health Key Performance Indicators. As you know, we have a practice of endorsing Auditor General recommendations, so I need to ask for a motion to endorse the recommendations.
KIM LANGILLE: The motion’s been passed out.
THE CHAIR: Oh, the motion has been passed out. We just need someone to move it, please. MLA MacLeod.
MARCO MACLEOD: I move that the Public Accounts Committee formally accept and endorse recommendations contained in the 2026 report of the Auditor General - Action for Health Key Performance Indicators that have been accepted by the audited departments or agencies, and ask that those departments and agencies commit to and take responsibility for full and timely implementation of the recommendations accepted by those departments and agencies.
THE CHAIR: Thank you. There’s a motion. Any discussion? Oh, okay. I forgot we need a seconder, right? Oh, we don’t. Okay. Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
Now we have the decisions from the May 6th meeting. Those were the ones that were in camera, correct?
KIM LANGILLE: Right. They passed and they’ve agreed to be made public.
THE CHAIR: Yes. We made motions that were agreed to be made public. I’m going to read them into the record from the May 6th meeting.
The first one is that “the Public Accounts Committee request the Department of Opportunities and Social Development to appear and talk about their implementation of the May 2024 audit” at the next available opportunity, and the second one is that “we try our best to schedule cybersecurity, at the next available date in the fall, for an in camera meeting on the progress” on the Auditor General’s report about cyber security in health care. Those are now public. I’m going to ask the clerk to make those requests.
The next thing is the June meeting schedule. Oh, yes. Currently, we have meetings scheduled until June 17th. As you know, June is an incredibly busy time for communities - school celebrations, et cetera. I’m wanting to know if the committee would like to schedule a meeting past June 17th or if we shall leave it at June 17th and then resume in September. Comments or discussion on that?
MARCO MACLEOD: Thank you for bringing this up. I think it’s that last week in June where we have all the high school graduations that we try to attend. Okay, something has come up so June 17th, I believe, is our out-of-town caucus. It’s going to be really difficult for our members to attend.
THE CHAIR: Okay.
MARCO MACLEOD: Just considering the amount of time between now and then, is it possible to maybe move to the first week of July or something, or we can try to do something else? Is that date flexible?
THE CHAIR: Well, I can discuss with the clerk, but normally if there is an out-of-town caucus that falls on a Wednesday, we do accommodate that. We would move the meeting or figure something else out. I don’t know if it’s been scheduled with witnesses yet, but maybe what I’ll do is ask the clerk to look at possibilities to see if there are any empty spots in the schedule, and we’ll get back to everyone. Does that make sense?
MARCO MACLEOD: Okay.
THE CHAIR: Okay. I just want to go back to my original thing about the following week. Maybe given this, do we want to schedule that meeting for the following week? It is a very busy week with graduations, et cetera. I just want to make sure that is the last week of June, that is the graduation week. Can we just have an agreement that we do not want to sit in that last week of June - is that correct?
AN HON. MEMBER: That’s correct.
THE CHAIR: That’s what I’m hearing.
Now I’m going to canvas the room. MLA MacLeod suggested that possibly that June 17th meeting, which needs to be moved, could happen on the Wednesday of the first week of July. Wondering how people feel about . . . (Interruption) It’s July 1st? It’s actually July 1st? Okay, never mind. (Interruption) It’s a holiday so we wouldn’t have staff here, so we can’t do that one.
All right, well if there’s . . . (Interruption) MLA Timmins.
DIANNE TIMMINS: It is July 1st, sorry. Is there any way to do it on a Thursday? Is that unusual or out of the question? There are no committee meetings on Thursdays? Okay. It was just a suggestion.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I’m going to talk to our folks. We can give it a couple of days.
THE CHAIR: MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: I just want to clarify. Our next meeting is June 3rd?
THE CHAIR: Yes, and if I’m picking up what you’re putting down there, MLA Lachance, we do have two empty slots in the next two weeks, but it wouldn’t give enough time to reschedule that June 17th meeting. It would be very difficult to do. We’ll come back to this, and maybe we can discuss over email, so we’ll leave it there for now.
Our next meeting, as you just said, is June 3rd. The Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, Child Care Now Nova Scotia, the YWCA Halifax regarding the Canada - Nova Scotia Canada-Wide Early Learning and Child Care Agreement.
If there’s no further business, I will adjourn the meeting.
[The committee adjourned at 10:58 a.m.]
