HANSARD
NOVA SCOTIA HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
STANDING COMMITTEE
ON
HUMAN RESOURCES
Tuesday, November 4, 2025
Legislative Chamber
Capital Plan Updates on School Development and Maintenance Initiatives
and
Appointments to Agencies, Boards and Commissions
Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services
HUMAN RESOURCES COMMITTEE
Chris Palmer (Chair)
Rick Burns (Vice Chair)
Melissa Sheehy-Richard
Danny MacGillivray
Adegoke Fadare
Krista Gallagher
Paul Wozney
Hon. Iain Rankin
Hon. Derek Mombourquette
[Rick Burns was replaced by Tim Outhit.]
In Attendance:
Kilian Schlemmer
Legislative Counsel
Robin Dann
Legislative Committee Clerk
WITNESSES
Department of Public Works
Paul LaFleche, Executive Deputy Minister
Gerard Jessome, Chief Executive of Engineering - Building Infrastructure
Tonya McLellan, Executive Director, Design & Construction
Department of Education and Early Childhood Development
Tracey Barbrick, Deputy Minister
Tina Thibeau, Executive Director, Corporate Services
Halifax Regional Centre for Education
Steven Gallagher, Regional Executive Director of Education
Annapolis Valley Regional Centre for Education
Dave Jones, Regional Executive Director of Education
Tri-County Regional Centre for Education
Jared Purdy, Regional Executive Director of Education
Cape Breton-Victoria Regional Centre for Education
Susan Kelley, Regional Executive Director of Education
Chignecto-Central Regional Centre for Education
Karyn Cooling, Regional Executive Director of Education
Conseil scolaire acadien provincial
Michel Collette, Directeur general
Strait Regional Centre for Education
Paul Landry, Regional Executive Director of Education
South Shore Regional Centre for Education
Angela Gladwin, Regional Executive Director of Education
HALIFAX, TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 4, 2025
STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES
1:00 P.M.
CHAIR
Chris Palmer
VICE-CHAIR
Rick Burns
THE CHAIR: Order. I call this meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Human Resources. I’m Chris Palmer, the MLA for Kings West and Chair of the committee. Today, in addition to reviewing appointments to agencies, boards, and commissions, we’ll hear from witnesses regarding Capital Plan Updates on School Development and Maintenance Initiatives.
Please set your phones on silent at this moment. I’d like to ask everybody to do that so we don’t have any interruptions. Please do not touch your microphone when you’re called to speak; the staff here with Legislative TV will be able to turn your mic on for you when you’re identified. At this point I would like to ask all of our committee members to introduce themselves for the record by stating their name and their constituency, beginning with MLA Outhit.
[The committee members introduced themselves.]
THE CHAIR: For the purposes of Hansard, I’d also like to recognize the presence of Legislative Counsel Kilian Schlemmer and Legislative Committee Clerk Robin Dann. She’s done a very good job of getting us all together today. Thank you to Ms. Dann.
We’d like to ask our guests to indulge us for a few minutes while our committee proceeds with appointments to agencies, boards, and commissions. We will look for a motion to begin that process. MLA Sheehy-Richard.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: For the Department of Health and Wellness, I move to recommend Paulette Anderson be appointed public representative to the Midwifery Regulatory Council of Nova Scotia.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Sheehy-Richard.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: For the Department of Health and Wellness, I move to recommend Catherine Young be appointed public representative to the Board of the Nova Scotia Regulator of Physiotherapy.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Sheehy-Richard.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: For the Department of Health and Wellness, I move to recommend Sharon Johnson-Legere, Nathan Barton, and Vanessa Iafolla be appointed directors, public representatives to the Nova Scotia Prescription Monitoring Program Board.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Sheehy-Richard.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: For the Department of Health and Wellness, I move to recommend Dan Cochrane and Holly Nicholson be appointed public representatives to the Nova Scotia Board of Examiners in Psychology.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
That concludes our agencies, boards, and commissions. At this point, we’d like to welcome all of our guests this afternoon here in the Legislature. We opened up the big House for you folks today. It’s great to see you all. Our topic is Capital Plan Updates on School Development and Maintenance Initiatives. At this point, I’d like to ask all of our witnesses to give just a brief introduction of themselves, and then we’ll get into opening remarks after that. Maybe we’ll begin with Mr. Gallagher.
[The witnesses introduced themselves.]
THE CHAIR: Thank you, everyone. At this point, we’d like to invite those who will be giving opening remarks to begin with their opening comments. I’m going to go through the lists that I have, provided by the clerk, and we’ll begin with Mr. Jessome.
GERARD JESSOME: Good afternoon and thank you for the invitation to speak to the committee today. I am the Chief Executive of Engineering, Building Infrastructure, with the Department of Public Works. I am joined by Paul LaFleche, the executive deputy minister of Infrastructure, and Tonya McLellan, executive director of Design and Construction. Also with us is Krista Ranahan, director of Education Infrastructure.
Building and maintaining provincial infrastructure is a core function of the Department of Public Works. This includes managing school projects in communities across the province. We work closely with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development and all the educational entities, including CSAP and the regional centres for education, to deliver school projects that best meet the needs of students, teachers, and parents.
Once a community has been identified as requiring a new school, we work closely with Education and Early Childhood Development on site selection, design, and the construction process. By working together, we are able to use our department’s skill sets, Education and Early Childhood Development’s understanding of what Nova Scotian families need in a modern, accessible school, and Public Work’s knowledge of how to construct and deliver these projects.
Across the construction sector, we are seeing more challenges. These include inflation, labour disruptions, and supply chain issues. These problems can result in rising costs and longer timelines, but we work very hard to find solutions to limit the impact that they have and keep these projects moving forward. We are always looking at ways to deliver the best value for Nova Scotians.
I would be happy to answer the committee’s questions.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Jessome. We’d like to turn to Deputy Minister Barbrick now.
TRACEY BARBRICK: Thank you for the opportunity to join you today to talk about this important topic. As you know, the department recently appeared before the Standing Committee on Public Accounts on a very similar topic: recent improvements to our school capital process. I appreciate being here today with this broader panel of supporting witnesses to delve deeper into how we work with communities and our partners to plan, build, and maintain Nova Scotia’s schools.
Many of you are familiar with Nova Scotia’s school capital plan. In fact, more than half of the members on this committee have a school project moving through our school capital process which isn’t all that surprising given that 19 new or replacement schools are currently part of our plan. As we work with the Department of Public Works to advance these new and replacement school projects, we are also investing in preserving, refreshing, and extending the lives of our existing schools.
Annual funding to repair and refresh school buildings is now $30 million, a major increase from just $6 million a few years ago. Throughout the past two years, this funding has supported more than 100 school maintenance projects across the province: new roofs, boilers, windows, and we also invest in modular classrooms to respond to immediate growth needs. While we build out our ambitious capital plan, modular classrooms allow us to act quickly so we can address growth needs now and into the future.
Together with regions, the Conseil scolaire acadien provincial, and Departments of Public Works and Finance and Treasury Board, we are planning and delivering the school capital projects that communities need. As I assured your colleagues on the Public Accounts Committee, everyone involved in our school capital process shares an unwavering commitment to responsible, equitable, and evidence-based planning, and advancing all school projects as quickly as possible.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, Deputy Minister Barbrick. Mr. Gallagher.
STEVEN GALLAGHER: Today, the HRCE is comprised of more than 60,000 students, 10,000 staff, and 136 schools organized into 18 families of schools. For the past several years, HRCE's story has been one of enrolment growth. Between 2017 and 2025, our enrolment has increased by more than 11,000 students. This rapid expansion represents a period of change greater than any other in my 28-year career as an educator here in Halifax and it has not been without challenge. Fortunately, the HRCE has been able to lean on strong partnerships with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development and the Department of Public Works to meet this challenge through a significant capital commitment.
Since 2017, the HRCE has received eight new schools in communities across HRM with plans to open 11 more in the coming years. In addition, we have responded to this growth with the addition of 187 modular classrooms which create annex facilities and 53 stand-alone portable classrooms. Our partnership has also led to meaningful investment in our existing schools in recent years. Since 2021, more than $32 million has been invested in upgrades, including but not limited to: heating, roof repairs and replacements, window and building upgrades, and accessibility improvements.
Today, our planning team actively monitors our growth, identifies potential areas of concern, and makes recommendations to the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, all with the goal of ensuring that there is space for every student in the HRCE to grow, learn, and thrive.
I look forward to answering your questions regarding enrolment growth, capital plans, and maintenance initiatives in the HRCE.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Gallagher. I must say, it’s nice to see another J.L. Ilsley High grad here today. We’ll move on to Mr. Jones.
DAVE JONES: Good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation to join you today to talk about capital plan updates on school development and maintenance. I’d like to begin by saying I’m proud of the work operations staff and tradespeople in Annapolis Valley Regional Centre for Education do to maintain our schools. Their commitment has resulted in schools that are in good shape and provide effective learning spaces for our approximately 14,000 learners.
Over the past four years, we have seen a student enrolment increase of approximately 250 students with the most population growth centred in Kings County. While not as significant as you would see here in the Halifax Regional Municipality, there has been a significant amount of housing development across our region. There are 40 schools and two adult high schools in the AVRCE with approximately 2.3 million square feet to maintain; our oldest schools were constructed in the early 1950s, and our newest school was built in 2017.
Currently, we do not have any major capital projects under construction; our operations staff focus primarily on regular and preventive maintenance. As you can expect, with aging schools comes the need for upgrades and maintenance. In our region, recent upgrades have included ventilation, heating systems, and energy improvements. To support the implementation and expansion of the Nova Scotia School Lunch Program, many of our school cafeterias have seen enhancements to electrical, plumbing, ventilation, and fire protection systems.
I want to take a moment to acknowledge the positive collaborative relationship we have with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development and the Department of Public Works as we work together to maintain and upgrade schools.
Again, thank you for the opportunity to join you today. I’m looking forward to the conversation on planning, maintaining, and building schools across the province and providing information that may give context about schools in the Annapolis Valley.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Jones. Mr. Purdy.
JARED PURDY: Good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee. I’m pleased to be here today on behalf of the entire team at the Tri-County Regional Centre for Education to share updates on our capital planning work. We appreciate the opportunity to discuss the steps we are taking to maintain and improve our schools.
The TCRCE serves communities across Digby, Yarmouth, and Shelburne counties over an area of approximately 7,000 square kilometres with a population of more than 55,000. We have 22 schools that currently welcome just over 6,100 students. Enrolment in our region has remained steady and we’ve seen minimal fluctuations in the last few years. Just as you’ve heard from my colleagues, our region also receives provincial funding to support essential repairs and upgrades that preserve the longevity of our buildings and facilities. These investments tackle identified priorities such as structural repairs, system upgrades, and renovations.
When determining potential capital projects in the Tri-Counties, we look for issues we can address before they escalate as planning for the future of our buildings is always top of mind. Over the past three years, approximately $7.2 million has been directed toward improvements across our schools. These efforts have a direct benefit on our students’ overall educational experience, and I hope to share a number of impactful stories from each of our three counties with you today.
When planning for the future, our focus will remain on creating environments that inspire learning and support our students to reach their full academic potential. Continued progress will depend on our strong partnerships with government and the ongoing commitment of our regional team to deliver solutions that meet the needs of our communities. Thank you for your time and for the opportunity to share these updates.
THE CHAIR: We’ll move on to Ms. Kelley.
SUSAN KELLEY: Good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee. Today, the CBVRCE is comprised of more than 13,000 students, approximately 2,100 staff, and 38 schools organized in four families of schools. For the past several years, CBVRCE’s story has been one of enrolment growth. Between 2021 and 2024, our enrolment increased by more than 600 students. For 2025, however, we showed a decrease of approximately 190 students.
[1:15 p.m.]
In September 2024, CBVRCE opened a beautiful new school building, Breton Education Centre, for students in Grades 6 to 12 in New Waterford. Also in September of the same year, we opened four new modular classrooms for the pre-Primary students at Greenfield Elementary School. In May 2025, the provincial government announced the sites for two new school buildings, one for Reserve Mines in the Glace Bay area to replace Tompkins Memorial Elementary School, and one for Sydney Mines Middle School.
Our partnership has also led to meaningful investment in our existing schools in recent years. Since 2021, more than $12 million has been invested in upgrades, including but not limited to roof and window replacements, kitchen, cafeteria, and classroom improvements, and electrical upgrades. This investment in existing schools not only improves the Facility Condition Index, but also extends the life of those schools. I look forward to hearing any questions the committee may have about our work in CBVRCE.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Cooling.
KARYN COOLING: Thank you for the invitation to attend today. The Chignecto Central Regional Centre for Education serves approximately 20,000 students and employs 4,000 staff across 65 schools, that we organize into four families of schools. Over the past five years, CCRCE has experienced modest growth in enrolment. Our geographical area is extensive, spanning from the New Brunswick border to the Antigonish County line, and from the Northumberland Strait to the Halifax Regional Municipality, extending towards Windsor, covering approximately 13,500 square kilometres.
In collaboration with the Province, we have opened two new schools, have one currently in progress, and have completed a major capital renovation at an existing school. Additionally, over the past three years, approximately $10 million has been invested in upgrades to our existing buildings. These improvements include heating system replacements, roof repairs and replacements, window and building upgrades, and paving projects.
Across all our school buildings, our priority remains to ensure that every student feels safe, supported, and valued at CCRCE. I look forward to answering any questions you may have regarding capital plans with Chignecto Central.
THE CHAIR: M. Collette.
MICHEL COLLETTE: Bonjour. Chair and the members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. I am the superintendent of the Conseil scolaire acadien provincial, Nova Scotia’s only French first-language school board. Twenty-three schools, just under 7,000 children. I would like to draw your attention to the significant infrastructure deficit that continues to limit equitable access to French first-language education in our province. According to the 2021 Statistics Canada census and CSAP’s 2023-24 student data, only 27.5 percent of eligible students currently attend French first-language schools in Nova Scotia. In other words, nearly three out of four children who are entitled under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to receive their education in French are unable to do so, or at the very least do not have equitable access to French first-language education.
Although there are many contributing factors, geography and extremely large catchment areas remain among the most significant barriers to equitable access. For instance, no student from Amherst currently attends a French first-language school, as the nearest one is in Truro, nearly 200 kilometres round-trip. Likewise, very few students from New Glasgow are able to attend, since their nearest French school is past Antigonish, roughly 140 kilometres round trip. To illustrate the scale of this challenge even within HRM, l’École secondaire du Sommet in Bedford serves a catchment area that includes Halifax, Bedford, and Sackville, and extends nearly as far as Wolfville and past Peggys Cove. All of this is documented in the report L’essor de la francophonie en Nouvelle-Écosse, which was released publicly about two weeks ago.
CSAP currently has three replacement schools at various stages of construction. However, these are generally older buildings inherited from the English system at the time of CSAP’s creation. They are now being replaced simply because they have reached the end of their life cycle. These projects do not address new growth or unmet demand.
The current provincial capital plan includes funds for schools that are over capacity or located in high-growth areas of HRM. Of the four schools announced in that category, none were CSAP schools, even though several of our schools, including l’École secondaire du Sommet in Bedford, which now relies on eight modular classrooms, are already at or beyond capacity. For the 2025-26 school year, the CSAP is the fastest-growing educational entity from Primary to Grade 12 in Nova Scotia, yet our infrastructure has not kept pace with this growth.
Following the release of L’essor de la francophonie en Nouvelle-Écosse, Minister Maguire proposed the creation of a joint working group between the CSAP, the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, and Acadian Affairs to explore potential solutions. We see this as an important first step and we look forward to working collaboratively toward meaningful progress. Merci beaucoup.
THE CHAIR: Thank you very much. Last but not least, we will go to Ms. Gladwin, please.
ANGELA GLADWIN: Thank you for welcoming the South Shore Regional Centre for Education to today’s discussion. We value the chance to share updates on our capital planning and the work under way to maintain and improve our schools.
I’m pleased to share a little more background information about our region. South Shore Regional Centre for Education stretches along Nova Scotia’s South Shore, serving communities in Lunenburg and Queens Counties. This is an area of 5,250 square kilometres with a population of just over 59,000. We have 23 schools that currently welcome approximately 6,800 students. Our enrolment numbers have remained steady over the last several years, with a slight increase.
Like other regions, we rely on provincial funding to keep our facilities safe, functional, and conducive to learning. These investments not only address critical needs such as structural repairs, system upgrades, and renovations, but also support our proactive approach to maintenance. By anticipating potential issues and implementing repairs in advance, we extend the life of our buildings and create a better experience for students and staff.
In the past three years, more than $7 million has been directed toward improvements across our schools. Projects have included envelope repairs such as replacing aging roofs, upgrading heating and plumbing systems, and structural enhancements. These efforts have made a tangible difference in safety, energy efficiency, and overall usability of our buildings.
Looking ahead, we remain committed to ensuring that our staff and our students are in safe and secure learning environments. This will be possible with the continued collaboration between government departments and my dedicated colleagues who make up the SSRCE regional team.
I appreciate your time and attention.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, Ms. Gladwin. My apologies, Mr. Landry. I understand you want to give some opening remarks as well, so last but not least - I mean it this time - Mr. Landry.
PAUL LANDRY: Good afternoon, Chair and committee members. On behalf of the Strait Regional Centre for Education, thank you for the invitation to attend today’s meeting. I appreciate the opportunity to share information with you on capital updates, school development, and maintenance initiatives.
To provide some context, the Strait Regional Centre for Education is a rural region located in the northeastern part of Nova Scotia. We operate 20 schools across Antigonish and Guysborough Counties on the mainland, and Inverness and Richmond Counties on Cape Breton Island. Our geographic region covers an area of approximately 11,000 square kilometres with a population of just under 54,000. Our current enrolment is 6,311 students. We have not experienced a significant change in our enrolment over the last five years.
The Strait Regional Centre for Education receives provincial funding to support additional repairs and upgrades to extend the lives of buildings and facilities such as renovations and infrastructure repairs that enhance the learning and teaching environment for our students and staff. Over the past three years, our collaboration with the Province has resulted in $7.8 million in school upgrades. These investments include roof repairs and replacements, heating system enhancements, and building and envelope improvements. These upgrades have significantly improved the safety, efficiency, and functionality of our schools.
We look forward to continuing our partnership with our colleagues at the Departments of Education and Early Childhood Development and Public Works, along with the work of our dedicated regional staff, to ensure students and staff are in safe, healthy, and secure learning environments.
THE CHAIR: That concludes our opening statements. We’ll now move into our question-and-answer period for questions presented by different caucuses. In the first hour, we’ll have 20 minutes for the Opposition, 10 minutes for the Liberal Party, and 30 minutes for the PC Party. Again, just a reminder: Please wait until you’re identified before you speak. That gives Legislative TV time to turn on your microphones. With a lot of people, I’ll do my best to direct some traffic here. There might be the odd time when someone wants to add a comment to a question. We’ll do our best to make sure every voice gets heard today.
We will move to our NDP caucus for the first round of questioning. MLA Wozney.
PAUL WOZNEY: I’d like to direct this question to representatives from the regional centres for education and the CSAP. We’ve heard from the Auditor General that since 2019, successive governments have failed to adhere to their policy of including representation from regional centres and the CSAP in decision-making processes that determine where infrastructure funding for schools is going. Can the representatives here today speak to their recent and ongoing experiences of how and when their voices are considered as government makes school capital decisions?
THE CHAIR: There’s no direct person you want to direct that to? Is there . . .
PAUL WOZNEY: We’re just making note that there are seven anglophone regional centres and the CSAP who potentially should be having input at various stages. We just want to open the floor to each of them. Maybe all will have a comment, maybe only some. I’m open to however responses . . . (Interruption)
THE CHAIR: We can begin with Mr. Gallagher.
STEVEN GALLAGHER: While I appreciate the Auditor General’s report was identifying a problem in process, my own experience and the experience of the team at the HRCE is that there’s been extensive, ongoing consultation and communication regarding the needs in Halifax, and indeed the decisions made around capital. I’d also comment, thinking about the last few years, we’ve evolved our process, I think, coming out of COVID in 2020-21, when population here in the city really started to climb. The process that had been put in place in 2019 really didn’t contemplate growth. There was very much finding a way together, at least in terms of HRCE staff and EECD staff. My own experience has been an extensive amount of consultation.
[1:30 p.m.]
THE CHAIR: MLA Wozney, are you looking for other input? Would anyone else like to answer the question? M. Collette.
MICHEL COLLETTE: The process would look different at CSAP, just because there’s an elected board. For us, the elected board goes through a process of educational priorities. That process is extensive, it’s data-driven, and then we submit priorities to the EECD for approval. Once that goes into EECD, historically, there has been very little conversation between the board and EECD on decisions made by EECD on infrastructure priorities. I’m hoping that the new committee that we’ve formed will help change that.
THE CHAIR: I don’t see any more takers on this question, MLA Wozney. Is there anybody else who would like to answer the question? MLA Wozney. Sorry, Ms. Cooling.
KARYN COOLING: I can provide a response. In Chignecto Central, we have not received the growth population increase that Halifax has received. We do our internal process where we would go through a screening process to determine which schools we would prioritize to put forward to the department in relation to capital requests. From there, we would have conversations about it, but I recognize that with the vast population increase in Halifax right now, we wouldn’t be in the same situation of needing to be in that ongoing dialogue of enrolment growth that we’re seeing every day in this area.
PAUL WOZNEY: I’ll direct this follow-up to perhaps EECD senior staff. Having heard comments from representation of school districts, urban, francophone, and bedroom or outside of Halifax, there’s a different lived experience of how often voices are heard in capital planning decisions for schools. Given that the department has agreed to accept and implement all of the Auditor General’s recommendations in her most recent report, how will the department take these responses offered today back and work to better include regional representation and its voices at various stages of the process moving forward?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: In terms of process, there is an annual process for both capital replacement as well as capital repairs. The capital replacement is, of course, the big 19 schools that have been announced; the repair budget is the $30 million that’s intended to improve schools and maintain their Facility Condition Assessment to ensure that we keep the life in the schools as long as we possibly can.
Each of the RCEs and CSAP do their own internal process that a few of them have identified to submit their priorities for their regional area. Those typically come in with a project rationale attached, the condition of the existing schools if it’s a replacement school, the existing use of any modulars or portables and how they’re addressing any crowding issues, community impact of a school replacement project, any occupational safety concerns in the existing school, program needs that are offered in the existing school, the risk of not proceeding, and a cost-benefit analysis of the replacement.
Those come to the department from all of our partners here with me, and then the department goes about the provincial comparison process of all of those conditions. While each of my colleagues has priorities for their own geographic or mandate, the department and the Province are responsible to compare all of those against each other, against that scoring, along with the capital envelope that we have identified in the capital plan, and make those announcements.
The Auditor General’s comments were in large part focused around the growth schools that hadn’t really been contemplated before 2020, when all of the projections for the Province were that our population was expected to decline. Then 2020 hit and we went, oh boy, we need to think about a whole other layer here. The Auditor General’s commentary was largely that we don’t have enough tightened process around growth schools. I also think that addresses CSAP’s points around the equitable responsibility to ensure access to French. What we’re working on now and what we committed to with the Auditor General is that we would frame out a quantifiable assessment for those growth schools. Her report largely did say our existing replacement process was pretty good. It’s the growth schools that we need to work on, and that’s what we’re working on now.
PAUL WOZNEY: I don’t disagree entirely with the deputy minister’s comments. I would extend the conversation by drawing attention to the fact that the Auditor General raised questions about how there were comments made by the minister and senior department staff about the role of regional fairness factoring into decisions in the absence of any criteria or process by which regional fairness was determined.
I simply ask these questions because we have three different regional centres reporting three different lived experiences of how and when their voices are heard and considered in making capital planning decisions. I’m certainly not suggesting that everything is broken, but I think it leaves the department vulnerable to perceptions of bias and unfairness if there isn’t a standard process or interval of communication with all regional centres on capital planning until such time as we have a rigorous framework that ensures that regional fairness is a criteria-based, evidence-based factor in decision-making. I offer that in a supportive spirit, not necessarily a critical one.
I’d like to follow up with a question for the EECD. Portables are used at 9 percent of schools in the province, not including the expanding use of modulars. As a classroom teacher who has taught in both types of structures, there are fundamental differences between those and classrooms inside school buildings. Portables contain one classroom and no bathrooms or running water. HRCE’s opening statement indicates that there are 53 new portables in use since 2017.
I’m wondering if the department has a long-term strategy to move all students currently learning in portables into permanent buildings, or are portables merely here to stay?
TRACEY BARBRICK: It is absolutely the fact that since 2021, a new portable has not been put in place. As we’ve moved to modulars, which are more of an annex design that is intended to augment the primary school space - and those are anywhere from four to 12 classrooms. They have washrooms and running water and HVAC systems and are really an additional capacity to the school. That’s where we are - in the condition that we’ve been with the growth in the province, that came as a little bit of a curveball. The use of modulars has been intended to augment the square footage that we have to solve our immediate problem while we build another 25 schools, really, with the ones that have opened already and the 19 that are in various states of development now.
Portables are a bit of an older approach to it before modulars existed. Of course, with the expanded capacity in schools with the 19 builds - 24, if you count the ones that are open - that is not the intent for the long-term plan. They are solving short-term problems. Frankly, our capital replacement project prior to 2021 - there was quite a backlog that really had not been progressing in a long time. We had both replacement schools that needed to be done as well as this growth. It was bit of a perfect storm because the capital replacement work had not happened for years, so we had to deal with that, and we had to deal with the growth. So portables are a bit of an older model and modulars are a newer model, but not the long-term plan while we catch up with all the capital needs.
PAUL WOZNEY: I’d like to direct this question to the representatives from the Regional Centres for Education and the CSAP. I’m wondering if you can speak to how your respective organizations monitor the impact of learning in portables on students.
THE CHAIR: On these questions put forward to the centres for education, I’ll look for direction from somebody with a hand - anybody who would like to take MLA Wozney’s question first.
Mr. Gallagher.
STEVEN GALLAGHER: I appreciate the question. It’s an interesting one. It’s one we’ve asked ourselves frequently in the last little bit - broader than portables but also talking about the annex facilities and modulars.
At this stage, I can’t give you a definitive answer in terms of whether we’re seeing an impact in terms of learning. We’re certainly collecting anecdotal evidence from families, but primarily from staff. I would say to you - and as your own experience in the HRCE would validate, I’m sure - teachers and students much prefer modulars to portables. The portable, as the deputy minister said, is an older solution to a problem of temporary growth. We are moving rapidly to retire those. The two sets of modular units that we added to the inventory this year over the course of the summer - Hammonds Plains Consolidated Elementary, and also at Astral Drive Elementary over in Dartmouth - were replacing portable units that had reached the end of life. Rather than simply land portables, we put modulars there.
I think it’s clear, at least from the anecdotal reporting, that an annex facility with washrooms, a staff room, a central hallway, creates a better learning environment than the portable. As I’ve always said - and I think the staff of the HRCE demonstrate - it doesn’t really matter what building you’re in; it’s all about the teacher. I’m sure you would agree with me that a dynamic teacher can lead students to success in virtually any environment.
PAUL WOZNEY: Perhaps I might ask the same question to M. Collette, noting that plenty of CSAP sites are home to modulars and portables as well. How does your organization monitor the impact of learning in these alternative spaces rather than standard classrooms?
THE CHAIR: M. Collette.
MICHEL COLLETTE: CSAP doesn’t have a whole lot of portables left, and we have one school with modulars. We’ve had modulars at that school for a few years. I would echo Mr. Gallagher’s response in the sense that although infrastructure is important, a teacher is a teacher is a teacher. I have confidence that teachers can teach in various environments. We are, as well, collecting data from parents, from students, and from staff to answer that question, but I would echo what Mr. Gallagher has said.
THE CHAIR: MLA Gallagher with four minutes and 40 seconds.
KRISTA GALLAGHER: I’ve got four minutes. This is for the EECD: I’m curious about pre-Primary classrooms and if they are at or near capacity.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: The pre-Primary classrooms in essence are not so different from the other classrooms in the school in terms of each of my colleagues here would be mapping out their configuration of their school and the capacity of the school for the full student body. The pre-Primary class really is part of that functional year-over-year assessment of classroom space.
[1:45 p.m.]
KRISTA GALLAGHER: Full-day child care spots can be hard to come by. They can offer greater flexibility for parents when it comes to drop-off and part-time pick-ups. Amongst parents to four- and five-year-olds, are you seeing higher demand for full-day child care for pre-Primary?
TRACEY BARBRICK: Pre-Primary: The last number I had seen - I didn’t come prepared with a lot of data on that, so apologies. I can get back to you on a couple of things. The last number I had seen was some version of about 75 percent of children who are eligible for pre-Primary are attending pre-Primary. The difference in that is families who are choosing to have their child in another environment because pre-Primary, of course, is not mandatory.
The full-time child care, yes, absolutely - the shortage there was the impetus to the federal government’s investment and our work to build capacity since 2021. I’m pleased to report that our target with our federal agreement was 9,500 additional spaces. We’re at 94 percent of that. Some of that, of course, is full-time child care, some of it is infant care, some is before- and after-school care, but we’re headed in the right direction. Of course, there continues to be demand, which varies across the province, depending on capacity in that area.
Our focus on capital investments to build child care facilities, to expand child care facilities - the work that my colleagues have done here on before- and after-school care is very impressive. We’ll continue to strive toward that target by the end of March 2026.
KRISTA GALLAGHER: I just have two questions that I’m trying to get through in a minute and a half.
At a different committee, deputy minister, you said that the department had some pretty good data on child care demand in the province. Can you tell me how many parents are currently waiting for a child care spot?
TRACEY BARBRICK: I can’t tell you that because we don’t currently have a provincial registry for every family that’s looking for child care. Right now, in each geographic area, families would be seeking child care for whatever fits their personal needs. Sometimes that’s full-time care, sometimes that’s part-time care, sometimes it’s before- and after-school care. At this point, there is not a provincial registry that exists in the province. We continue to work with all of our child care providers to understand where the real pressures are, and that informs our capital investment strategy.
KRISTA GALLAGHER: There is a new CSAP school planned for Halifax Chebucto on the corner of Oxford Street and Bayers Road. I’m just curious if you have a scheduled open date for that school.
THE CHAIR: Ms. McLellan, 10 seconds.
TONYA MCLELLAN: The school, as you know, is currently under construction. We continue to monitor the progress daily. We’re doing . . .
THE CHAIR: Order. Sorry. I do have to proceed with the next round of questioning.
We will now move on to the Liberal caucus with 10 minutes. I need a direction of who will be beginning. MLA Mombourquette.
HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you, everyone, for coming from all over the province. Good to see many of you.
My first question is around your thoughts around enrolment. We heard a few times in the opening comments around how the Strait has kind of levelled out enrolment-wise. We’re starting to see stabilization, if not decline, outside of HRM. Obviously, a lot of the growth was HRM. We’ve seen a bit of growth too in the CBRM - fastest-growing community. I think it’s an important conversation to have, especially around infrastructure. I come from a community that saw decline for almost a generation. Then we saw a bump, and then we saw what happens to infrastructure and the stress that it can put on the infrastructure that we have for our kids.
Now my fear is that we’re starting to see the economy weaken, which is obvious. We’re starting to see a situation where government investment is going to get more difficult, based on their own decisions. The population is always one, for me - as it is for many - where it is really an indication of a number of things.
This is an open question, Chair, because not too often you get all the executive directors in a room who represent various areas of the province. What’s happening in HRM is not happening in other communities. We’re seeing decline again. I guess my question is: Can I get some feedback from you in your role, particularly in the communities where you’re starting to see that population decline?
THE CHAIR: Mr. Jones.
DAVE JONES: In the Annapolis Valley in 1996, we had around 18,000 students. We’ve levelled out to around 14,000, including pre-Primary. That looks like it’s going to be levelled out at about that same number for the next five years or so. We’re seeing it coming up and down by a hundred or so, but not significant over the next five years.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Purdy.
JARED PURDY: In Tri-County, it’s certainly not a story of growth. Over the last three years, we’ve remained fairly consistent across all three counties. A three-year trend shows us down about 50 students, so it has been pretty consistent in Tri-County over the last three years. But there was a decline.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Cooling.
KARYN COOLING: For Chignecto Central, our enrolment has increased in the four years after COVID - a slight increase. As I said, it was modest - around 400-ish - but then we’ve fluctuated and we’ve come down about 200 for this year. We utilize a software to do our enrolment projections. We’re currently looking as though we’ll be levelled out - not a huge decline and not a huge increase.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Kelley.
SUSAN KELLEY: It’s very similar to the others in Cape Breton. As you heard, we did have an increase just after COVID, and we’ve gone down this year. But as we look across the years going forward, similar to what Karen said in CCRCE, it’s not a big or small increase or decrease.
THE CHAIR: M. Collette.
MICHEL COLLETTE: CSAP looks a little different. This year, we had a 3.2 percent increase, the highest in the province and the highest since COVID. We are seeing extensive growth in French first-language. The future of the French language in this province is largely based on immigration. The Province is recruiting doctors and nurses from everywhere. A lot of the people who register in our schools are people the Province is actively recruiting.
Although there are systems that we use for demographics, those systems are usually largely off for the French language. Political decisions that are made in this room or in Ottawa do impact largely the French population. We are seeing an increase, and we believe that increase will continue as the Province continues to recruit these professionals from across the country and across the world.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Gladwin.
ANGELA GLADWIN: In the South Shore, we would have seen, as I said, a slight increase. I expect to see maybe 30 more students next year, and then we’ll begin to see a slight decline, actually, in the South Shore.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Landry.
PAUL LANDRY: As you mentioned, our enrolment hasn’t experienced significant change in the last five years. We’re very pleased about that because prior to that, we spent years of enrolment decline, typically averaging between 200 and 300 students declining each year. We’re quite pleased that we’ve levelled off. It bumps up and down a little bit, but it’s certainly levelled out and we’re pleased with that.
THE CHAIR: We’ll go to Mr. Gallagher.
STEVEN GALLAGHER: I know you were interested in areas outside the city, but I’ll offer that in Halifax, we’ve seen a significant change just this year. I talked about the huge growth that’s happened. This year, we were projected to have about 1,500 additional students, and we got just under 500. Our projections indicate that we would grow by another 16,000 students by 2034. Clearly, those projections need to be revised. We’re expecting new data at some point in the winter. We’ll analyze that, and I suspect that those projections are going to come dramatically down based on this year. I think the federal position on immigration is impacting enrolment in the city.
THE CHAIR: MLA Mombourquette.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I appreciate that. As I said, Chair, you don’t get an opportunity to have all of the senior leadership in the same room in a committee. Those population models are really going to matter. It’s your best guess. At some point you look at the trends, but then all of a sudden, you have a world pandemic, and all of a sudden, you have economic woes, et cetera. I appreciate that information. I think that’s really going to be important moving forward.
I do want to ask a question specific to the new francophone school that was going down on Oxford Street - something that was approved a few years back. I’m just looking for an update. Based on your population increase when it comes to your enrolment, how is that project going, Mr. Collette?
THE CHAIR: M. Collette.
MICHEL COLLETTE: We’re really excited about that project. That’s going in at Oxford Street and Bayers Road. It’s progressing. It is built for about 700 students. The current school that it replaces has about 400, 450 at the moment. That school was built with extra capacity and was designed at the time of that whole population boom. That school should be okay for the next few years, anyway.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Correct me if I’m wrong, Mr. Collette, that it was expected to be open in the spring. Is it still on schedule?
MICHEL COLLETTE: I would defer that question to EECD.
THE CHAIR: Ms. MacLellan.
TONYA MCLELLAN: As I started to say during the last round of questioning, obviously, the school is under construction. It’s progressing well. We’re continuing to monitor the progress very closely. We are anticipating completion in the 2026 year, so things right now are on schedule for the completion dates that were originally given.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I know I only have a minute and 30 seconds left here before this round is done. I asked the question around that school in particular because it comes with a question around trades and the ability of having trades to do the work. We see construction happening across the province in various aspects. Decisions have been made in the past decade, really, on some of the work.
Through you to the committee, with only a minute, so somebody can decide who wants to answer it - or maybe it’s to the deputy minister and her staff: Are we confident that with everything that’s been announced that you have the trades necessary to build these schools on time and on budget?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: I can start and my colleagues at the Department of Public Works, who are closer to each of these construction projects, possibly have more to add there. Really, over the last four years, we’ve added a version of a thousand skilled trades seats in Nova Scotia Community College and through direct entry skilled trades, and a number of other economic incentives to ensure that we’re growing skilled trades in the province, as well as right down into our school system with the addition of skilled trade centres across the province.
We’re doing everything we can to attract people to the trades. I think there was a time where trades were not viewed as the desperate value that we place on them nowadays. You’re seeing that translate into student choices as they leave high school.
THE CHAIR: Order. Sorry, I have to end that round of questioning.
We’ll now move on to the governing caucus with 30 minutes. I’ll begin with MLA Fadare.
ADEGOKE FADARE: One of the things I hear clearly today is that significant investment is being made toward education. Prior to COVID there was planning for decline, and we can see now that that has changed with a lot of investment.
I want to ask about community engagement. My question is directed to the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. I just want to know, regarding during the capital planning process - could the department outline how communities and what is happening right there in my community? There is a lot of conversation around it. Residents and school advisory councils are engaged at each stage of the process of selecting a new school. How has the feedback been incorporated either into the decision-making for the design, the site used, or the selection of it, and even the transitional planning? I don’t know if you can speak to that.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: We can probably use your school and your community as a bit of an example in terms of where engagement is built into the process. The original step of site selection, when it’s been announced that a school will either be replaced or a net new school to the system - there is originally engagement with the community at both the municipal level and the department level around the interests of the community on the front end.
After a site is selected that takes into account some of that feedback, there is an advisory committee constructed that consists of community members and school staff, as well as school leadership. That committee is involved throughout the design process and charged with supporting communication out to the community as well as providing input to the design.
I would offer that there is a fairly robust standard around school builds that really is a bit of a formula as it relates to what goes into the school and the square footage allocated for different functions. The advisory committee works within that standard and with the school leadership and the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, as well as the Department of Public Works, to inform the community interests in those projects.
There are times where there’s an interest in having something part of a school that is not part of the standard school education space. When that happens, there’s typically engagement with the municipality to see if there’s something else that they’re interested in having as part of that school that’s funded in another way. It’s not funded through the school capital fund, but rather through the engagement with the local municipality.
ADEGOKE FADARE: I can testify to that, because obviously, Clayton Park is a unique place. We don’t have community centres like that. That’s why we’re always very concerned about the construction and the design. We’re really excited about the people who are on the advisory council who represent a cross-section of the people within there.
I want to ask around communication when the site projects start. I think that needs to be underscored, because obviously, we know that during Thanksgiving, some site movement happened, and as a result of that, there was this lack. I just want to be able to ask: What mechanisms are being put in place to ensure the residents can have easy access to what I call credible updates? We all have community groups and all kinds of information travels in those. Many of those are not true. People are giving their thoughts or their assumptions. I’m just wondering where they can get easy access. What mechanisms are in place for people to get easy, credible updates about projects such as timelines, traffic scenarios, things around environmental measures in such a way that it’s clear and well-coordinated?
[2:00 p.m.]
There have been instances where people have had to reach out to the site workers to get information. Site workers are very far away from the plan. It never turns out well. I’m just wondering what mechanisms are in place for that.
TRACEY BARBRICK: I entirely appreciate how communities look for information. If they can’t find it in a credible location, they’ll get it where they can get it. I understand that, including stopping by sites and visiting with tradespeople and things like that. There are a couple of ways right now. I will acknowledge that the Auditor General provided some commentary that she felt we needed to strengthen that, and we’ve agreed.
There are two places right now. There’s a website that provides information that’s at the process level - the steps in the process from the announcement of a school to the day it’s open - which is quite general information. We work locally with the RCEs, particularly through the advisory committee as well, to get information out to people so that they can be aware of the progress, and we don’t really want people stopping by construction sites too much in the spirit of safety. It’s a lot of pressure on workers to provide that kind of information. Right now, the website and through the steering committee is how we’re doing that, and engagement with the RCE and CSAP, but I also recognize we need to strengthen that.
ADEGOKE FADARE: Thank you for that feedback. I think probably what we could also do is to maybe work with the local MLA offices. That’s always where people go to when there are a lot of those crises. Sometimes we are caught unawares, and that puts us not just in a funny situation, but also the fact that it looks like government is not well-coordinated or something as regards to that.
I want to ask - obviously, regarding the sites - about Clayton Park West. I apologize. We know that the construction work is going on. There’s going to be a shared field. People have been asking, “What will that look like? Will there be some investment to help the field?” It’s going be shared between the community and between the Park West School. I’m just wondering if there’s any thought around that, because people have been asking that question. I’m just wondering if we are looking at doing anything about that. Or is it still something that we’re planning or we’re looking into, as the case might be?
TRACEY BARBRICK: Can I just ask you to clarify that?
ADEGOKE FADARE: Right now, the construction that’s going on is going to have to share the field with another school. I’m just wondering, would that be a significant - people are concerned right now. We use it for dog walks and all of that stuff. There could be some investment. Right now, it’s not a field; it’s just - I don’t know what to call it.
THE CHAIR: Ms. McLellan.
TONYA MCLELLAN: The field is going to be a shared field. Currently there are no planned upgrades for that field, but it is something that has been brought to the attention of the project staff.
ADEGOKE FADARE: My last question for now. Obviously, Clayton Park West is a very dense area. We can tell that it’s also a place that is growing. I know one of the things people love a lot in our constituency is our forests. I know that people are deeply concerned. I just want to ask, because people are sending pictures of before and after from their backyard and all of that: Is there a way the Province would be able to assist in terms of vegetation plantation when the work is finally done? I know people are asking. It would be nice for them to hear some reaction to that.
TONYA MCLELLAN: I mean, obviously anyone who has seen the site right now can attest to there having been a lot of tree removal. The site plan and the final site configuration do include planting and some very attractive landscape architecture. There will be some extended walking paths around the school, and yes, there will certainly be greenery added to the back of the properties where the trees have been removed.
ADEGOKE FADARE: I defer to Tim.
THE CHAIR: MLA Outhit.
TIM OUTHIT: Some of you I’m seeing again for the second time in a little while, because you were at the Public Accounts Committee. As I mentioned at Public Accounts, I’ve just been so impressed with how you’ve worked so hard on new builds and the modulars and upgrades to deal with our incredible growth in an area, for example, that I represent, like Bedford, where we’ve seen basically two new communities built during my previous role on city council. Thank you for doing that. I know that required you to pivot and to act very quickly - all departments.
My questions are regarding maintenance for the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development. I understand there are two streams of maintenance. For example, fixing a roof is different from replacing doors or windows. Can you tell us a little bit about the two processes and how they differ?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: My colleagues with me will have information to offer on the second stream. Anything over $150,000 comes from the Province’s capital repair budget. That’s the $30-million budget envelope that we’ve talked about. Every year, each of my colleagues here advances their repair budget information.
The other thing that’s new is that all of our infrastructure in the public school system has had - or is soon to be completed - a Facility Condition Assessment on the building. That includes things like HVAC systems, roofs, windows, foundations - really a full assessment of the condition of the school. Those results are used to inform our decisions on capital repair. The intent is that those Facility Condition Assessments that are creeping up to a condition that really needs some attention are what drive our decisions in that capital repair.
The other thing that we’ve done recently to try to accelerate and ensure that we can use that full budget in the time - before the end of fiscal, which is what’s required for accounting purposes - is the RCEs and CSAP identify their priority areas. They actually will kind of start the process of costing what it will be to repair, so by the time we finalize the list, they’ve already got their couple of top-priority issues costed so they can start the work immediately, and so that we can finish it within the fiscal.
Above that is the full capital program around replacement and renewal schools, which I talked about earlier. But for the smaller-value items, each of my leads here who I work with would be involved in constantly assessing what’s needed in their own school within their catchment area. They could probably offer a bit more on that window.
TIM OUTHIT: I’m fine with that response, thank you. I’ve been so interested in the movement towards modulars and knowing how it’s allowed you to move faster. My understanding is that some of these are actually designed and built in Nova Scotia. Can anyone tell us a little bit about that? Maybe Gerard? Is that one for you? (Laughs)
THE CHAIR: Mr. Jessome.
GERARD JESSOME: We’ve worked hard with our partners at the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development and the regional centres on the modular program. It was really an initiative that was started at HRCE. I think it’s a great concept. I think we’re building some good learning environments. There is local involvement. We’re working with companies that are beginning to establish themselves as being modular leaders in the community. We understand there’s a learning process. There was a learning process for ourselves going through it as well, but I think we’re getting a lot of local interest in modular construction in the area, and I think we have some good companies that will take that and move forward and be very competitive going forward.
TIM OUTHIT: That’s exciting and good to hear. I believe MLA MacGillivray wants to speak next.
THE CHAIR: MLA MacGillivray.
DANNY MACGILLIVRAY: Thank you all for being here this afternoon. Last Thursday we had a public meeting in the Town of Trenton. We were lucky enough to have Deputy Minister Paul LaFleche, Deputy Minister Tracey Barbrick, Public Works Chief Engineer Gerard Jessome, and Regional Executive Director Karyn Cooling in attendance. There was a new school promised for the Town of Trenton; in 2027, it’s supposed to be opening. It’s replacing two existing schools that are in fairly rough shape. I just wanted to ask the deputy minister if she could maybe, for those who weren’t in attendance that night, for people watching today, what sort of conversations are going on and what you can tell us in terms of updates, and maybe give us a timeline on the project as well.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: Thank you for including us there last week. The Trenton school site selection for that school has taken a little bit longer than expected for various reasons involved in those sites that have been investigated. I think there have been about 11. We’re closing in on final recommendations on a site. The community has been involved in the selection of that location and supports it. They are understandably concerned about the time - that’s been longer than we expected. The engagement with the community last Thursday night was really in wanting to understand the steps in these processes around getting a school built. I think I compare this sometimes to building a house for myself times 100, because it’s a commercial building.
From the moment we make an announcement about a school, of course, people are really anxious to see that unfold, understandably. If I were building a house, from the moment I decided to build the house to the moment I lived in it can take a varying path, depending on what land is available, what infrastructure is attached to that, utilities, does it fit the square footage I need, what’s the design, are there any contours or things on the property that have to be worked with, do I need to change the design at some point, can I get skilled tradespeople, all of that kind of thing. You multiply that times 100 because of the commercial nature and the size of the building and the needs of the school.
It does not seem to be a linear path when getting these schools built. The conversation in the community was that we’re narrowing in on what we think is the final recommendation that goes to Minister Maguire. That’s part of the regulatory process. Minister Maguire gets a site assessment package from the Department of Public Works. He confirms that selection, then we proceed with design, and that gets tendered out. Then the school advisory committee gets formed and people are engaged along the process to get it built.
There had been some short-term concerns with the existing facilities, so we talked a bit about how Karyn and her team have used their capital repair budget to keep those two existing schools in as good a condition as we can while we get the new school built. There were concerns that we’ve committed to taking a closer look at to see if there need to be any interim solutions.
[2:15 p.m.]
DANNY MACGILLIVRAY: Thank you very much for that. I really appreciate it, and really appreciate your presence there last Thursday as well.
I’m going to ask Ms. Cooling if she could maybe speak to the CRCE’s involvement in the process just outlined by the deputy minister. If you could do that, I’d appreciate it.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Cooling.
KARYN COOLING: Definitely as Deputy Minister Barbrick alluded to, we are currently actively maintaining the two buildings. We’re excited for the site selection and opening of the new school, but in the meantime, priority with our operations team is ensuring that work orders that come in are dealt with and handled and that we’re prioritizing that. We have property services directly on site in one of the two schools, so that’s an asset, to have that in that component.
Once the site is selected, we’re definitely excited to lead the work with the school steering team and be able to have parent, community, and staff voice through that process as well that we’ll continue to work on.
DANNY MACGILLIVRAY: Thank you for those answers. Once again, I want to thank the four individuals for coming down last Thursday. It’s not always easy, the public meetings, but they did a tremendous job and the information was communicated. Thank you all for that.
I’ll pass it on to MLA Sheehy-Richard.
THE CHAIR: MLA Sheehy-Richard.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: We have such a cast of witnesses here today, I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask a question related to my own constituency. In 2023, we did announce a new school that’s going to replace two smaller schools. I remember when my children went to one of the schools, Windsor Forks District School, at that time conversations were happening about capacity, water quality, and things of that nature.
I guess, as I know from what I’ve learned in committee today, that site selection is not an easy process. There are many moving factors. But in particular, because there are two schools, I’m just curious as to where we are in that. I know that those two schools had to be assessed. I’m just wondering if there’s anything that the Department of Public Works could add to where we are in that site selection or that stage of the process.
THE CHAIR: Ms. McLellan.
TONYA MCLELLAN: This is a consolidation, as you said, of two existing schools - both 1960 vintage, so they’re up there in age. We started site selection in October 2024. Where we started with that was looking at the two existing sites to see if either of those was appropriate to build a new consolidated building. It was determined that it was not suitable - it was not favourable.
Our next step then was to move on to municipal and provincially owned land. That is the step we’re at now. We are looking at particular properties. We have started investigation on those - meaning geotech survey, those sorts of things - but do not have a recommendation at this time because it’s still in process.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: I guess further to that, as you know, when you see projects like that that consolidate two different areas, it’s exciting but nervous for the students and the families that it affects. How does this process unfold when you’re thinking about honouring each school’s unique features that they have, for example? I think that’s probably more of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, perhaps.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: I think Dave Jones in front of me probably has some thoughts on this, given that he will be the person who’s responsible to bring those family of schools together in that consolidated school. I grew up in Tatamagouche, where we took an elementary school and a high school into one pre-Primary to Grade 12 school. Certainly, that was very important to the community. I heard a lot about it at the time. I wasn’t in this role - maybe thankfully - at the time.
Certainly any change in design of a school can be challenging for people, but in that case, because the standard that I referenced earlier is really like the playbook for the layout of the school - it really is more formulaic than you might realize, given how much variation you see in completed schools and how unique they can look. The standards that they follow in terms of square footage for the enrolment number is actually quite prescribed, and then the design variation is around that.
I grew up in Tatamagouche. There were three high schools exactly the same that were all kind of commissioned at the same time. It’s amazing how much variation in a school based on grade, configuration, size of school, and layout of the land changes what can actually happen on that land. In that community, of course, bringing those two schools together will be a careful navigation of a change in dynamic in the school.
I don’t know if you have time, but Dave Jones probably has some thoughts, given he has those schools in his catchment.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Jones.
DAVE JONES: During the beginning stage of this process, we met with the community. We met with the SAC. We met with the staff and met with the two principals and talked about that. From the community, we heard that they wanted to make sure the new school reflects their community. Three Mile Plains is an historical Black community, and from that community, they wanted to ensure that when that school is built, they see themselves reflected in that community. We heard the same thing from the families in Windsor Forks. They wanted to see their community reflected.
While there are certainly some standards in terms of the building, as Deputy Minister Barbrick mentioned, there are things that you can do in the building to make sure it looks and is welcoming to the children and the families. When we get to that point, we’ll engage the School Advisory Committee in order to bring that together and say “What does that look like in the building?” I’m confident that our staff, our leadership at those two schools, and our regional staff will work with them to do the best job we can in order to make sure that that school is welcoming and bringing those two schools together.
I would anticipate that the work to bring those two school communities together will start well before the school opens, in terms of the school communities joining together to do activities, so that they get to know each other before they join each other in the one school.
We’re very excited about the announcement. A brand-new school in that area is welcomed, and I’m confident that the school staff will do a great job to bring that together and bring the voice of the community into the school in different ways, as they can.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: I appreciate that. As you know, I was able to get to, I think, both of the meetings. Yes, I did. We were in the Legislature, I think, at the time. I know that folks now - a couple years creep in, and these will be welcomed reassurances, I guess, to community. People are generally pretty open, optimistic and excited about this. It’s certainly, as you say, by the age of them, something that was desperately required.
I’m going to move on to just a little different line of questioning. I wasn’t fortunate enough to be in the Public Accounts Committee when the Auditor General’s Report was discussed. You briefed on it a little bit earlier from those recommendations, as the department has accepted them all. I’m just wondering if you could walk us through how the implementation is progressing a little bit more on the other recommendations and what the process looks like, and maybe a little more detail on what we could expect to see in the future from those recommendations.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: The findings of the audit were very helpful to us and not out of line with what we were feeling - the work that we needed to do. We were not surprised by any of those results, and some of them were already under way. Two of them are already complete.
I do want to take a second, though, to make sure that some of the positive findings of the Auditor General are recognized, both by the team here as well as others. She found that the enrolment projections tool - the Baragar software - that takes into account development plans in the community, Statistics Canada results around population, even age group of populations, to help determine where there might be family growth. It’s a pretty sophisticated tool that all of my colleagues here use regularly and is updated annually. Those are used to extrapolate plans into the future. The Auditor General recognized the robustness of that enrolment projection process.
The other was the process around replacement and renovation schools. She recognized they’re supported by evidence. There wasn’t a question around that. The other was the categorization of low, medium, and high priorities was recognized as robust. Having said that, her recommendations that she included were again focused on the growth schools that we did not have sufficient process around. We recognize that. Those quantitative criteria are in development now. We worked on those, and they are on track with what we’ve committed.
The recommendation that we and Public Works work together to do everything we can to accelerate build projects - Public Works can talk a bit about that, but some of that is design build description that I think Gerard and Tonya have made at previous committees. Some of the commentary around how we’re moving towards involving the build, in many cases preparing the land, starting the foundation work before the design is complete, but when the square footage is determined. Those things are on track.
The third recommendation was updating the structure of our scoring committee, which we’ve done already. That’s complete. The next one was again, back on our growth scoring committee and ensuring that we’re focused on a quantitative assessment in that space. The other was complete all of our Facility Condition Assessments, which will be completed by the end of this fiscal. For the first time ever, every school in this province will have a quantifiable Facility Condition Assessment, which informs all of our repair work. It’s really gold in the space of repair.
Finally, to our earlier conversation, was updating the information available on . . .
THE CHAIR: Order. Sorry to do that to you again. Just a reminder to our witnesses, when you’re answering questions, if you’d like to look at the clocks, there is a countdown to give you all awareness of how much time might be left on the clock.
We will now go into our second round. It’s a quicker round. We will go to the Opposition. There’s a total of 11 minutes and 30 seconds for the Opposition, and 11 minutes and 30 seconds for the government caucuses. Is there an understanding? I think it’s being split 50/50? We’ll go to the NDP caucus. Would that be MLA Wozney?
PAUL WOZNEY: I just want to loop back to some comments about projected child care spaces. We know about the commitment to meet 9,500 net new child care spaces in agreement with the federal government by March 2026. We heard some numbers about being in the 90 percent on the way to hitting target. We’re in possession of data from Employment and Social Development Canada, which is a federal government body that monitors the progress of this goal from the federal perspective. They report that Nova Scotia has only created 6,542 child care spaces of the promised 9,500 as of March 2025. That’s a significant gap between what we say we have achieved and what the federal government views us as having achieved.
I want to ask the EECD: We know that parents are paying more than double the $10-a-day cost on average for child care in Nova Scotia despite all of the investment the government has made. If parents in Nova Scotia had access to $10-a-day child care, they would save more than $3,600 per child per year. Shouldn’t we make this cost saving for parents a priority, given the economic landscape that families are facing?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: I think the update from ESDC was back in March. I think we’ve added 1,500 spots since then in the last year. I don’t have the month-by-month; it’s on our website, though. If you want to go to our website, it actually has a quarterly update on exactly what’s opened since then.
In terms of the $10 a day, I don’t know what your calculation is based on, but that’s fine. The answer is yes, absolutely. We need to pursue affordable child care, and we have with children under six. We’ve done a 50 percent reduction over the last five years, and children over six, 25 percent reduction. We will continue to work with our federal government partners to get to the most affordable child care program we can possibly have.
PAUL WOZNEY: I’d like to direct this question to M. Collette from the CSAP. M. Collette, enrolment growth across the CSAP schools over the past 10 years has been on average about 16 percent or more. Your opening remarks flagged the lag in devotion of school capital funding to meet sustained, prolonged growth pressures in the schools that the CSAP oversees. Is funding for school infrastructure keeping up with known and projected enrolment growth within the CSAP?
THE CHAIR: M. Collette.
MICHEL COLLETTE: CSAP has received a lot of new schools in the past 10 years. The reality is that when CSAP was created, a lot of the schools that CSAP inherited were schools that were in the English system. The Province built new schools for the English students, and we received the old English schools. As we moved forward in the past 10 years, there has been a lot of infrastructure renewal for CSAP because they are schools that were already at the end of their life when we inherited them.
[2:30 p.m.]
To answer your question on if infrastructure is keeping up, the answer to that question is no. The report clearly states that 27.5 percent of students in this province who can attend a French first-language school do. Although there are many reasons, the biggest one is geography and distance in catchment areas. I am deeply concerned that 75 percent of French first-language students in this province do not attend CSAP schools in large part because of the lack of equitable infrastructure.
PAUL WOZNEY: We very much take that point. We know that the CSAP has been working to establish a third CSAP high school in the Halifax metro region for quite some time. Understanding all the pressures, cost of land, et cetera, while we applaud the creation of a bilateral committee with the minister, what can you tell us about the progress of realizing a third CSAP high school that lessens the pressure that l’École secondaire du Sommet and l’École secondaire Mosaïque are currently operating under?
THE CHAIR: M. Collette with 40 seconds.
MICHEL COLLETTE: A new high school on the peninsula is priority two and has been priority two for the elected board for a few years now. We have data that show that approximately 80 percent of students leave in Grade 9 and do not move forward in their French first-language education because of distance. We are working with government on that matter. We have been working for years. I’m hopeful that this new committee will move that priority forward, as it is a big issue for us and will remain so.
THE CHAIR: We will now go to the Liberal caucus with five minutes and 45 seconds. MLA Mombourquette.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We don’t have much time, but I will ask specifically about a couple situations in Cape Breton: the Sydney Academy and Riverview High School, if I can get an update just on the deliberations. Both of those schools service our high school population in the greater Sydney area. Looking for any kind of update. Are they part of the conversation around what the future looks like for new school infrastructure for students there, especially Sydney Academy, where Sydney Academy has had some pretty significant damage over the last number of years?
THE CHAIR: Ms. Kelley.
SUSAN KELLEY: Both of those high schools are on our requests for new schools coming up to the future. Sydney Academy, we are doing some work inside this year and making a new classroom, doing some pretty significant improvements inside. We have had some work done at Sydney Academy because we had a leak. Sometimes those things happen and you do get some improvements because of that. Sydney Academy has had some improvements. Riverview High School also has had improvements. As you know, a number of years ago, they took down the addition on - if you’re facing the school - the left-hand side, and they’ve done a lot of work on the entrance and the gym - some of those areas, or the music room. But they are both still on our request for new buildings.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I appreciate that very much. I get that question a lot at home.
My next question is around child care. I’ll just feed off what my colleague said. Through you, Chair, to the deputy minister: Is the Deputy Minister confident that they will hit that target by the end of the agreement - first leg of the agreement, the child care deal?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: We’re on track for the 9,500 seats as committed under the agreement.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: For the record, is the deputy minister committing today and feeling confident that you’ll hit $10 per day by the end of the contract?
TRACEY BARBRICK: I think Minister Maguire has acknowledged that in our continuing engagement with the federal government around the next action plan, we are working out the details to allow us to get there.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I would table the article if I had it here. I am concerned around the fact that the federal government did say at one point that there has been no engagement with the Province when it comes to the renegotiation. That original agreement - I know a lot of work went into it. It was an agreement that was signed off by advocates in the sector, families - the target being $10 per day by the end of the contract; 9,500 spaces; and benefits and wages and pensions for workers. I really hope that we do hit that $10-per-day average.
It also ties into the infrastructure side of this too. We also know that some of these child care centres are part of new school builds. Through you to the deputy minister: Of the new schools that are under construction, how many of them are going to have child care centres attached to them?
TRACEY BARBRICK: I just want to clarify the previous comment about no engagement with the federal government. There certainly has been. We have a combination of the last agreement was signed in late summer and then we had a federal election. I think everybody’s readjusting to the current priorities for the federal government. We are still working our way through some of the provisions under that last agreement. Lots of active engagement, but not tied up with a bow just yet, so we continue to work on it.
The new capital builds - I could go through the list, but I won’t. I’m looking at the clock now. A little more than half of those new constructions have a child care centre as part of the design. Every school that is to be included as part of the capital plan is assessed in that community for child care demand, and if there’s demand there, then we’re building it into the design. The federal government, under the action plan, of course, had some capital money, so we’re leveraging all of that capital money everywhere we can. An existing construction project is certainly a great place to tack on a child care facility when it works for the community and when that’s what the need is.
We’ll continue to use that as a model unless there’s reason to believe that in that community there just isn’t demand, which is seldom the case.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: There’s not really much time to ask a question and get an answer on it. I’m hopeful that the conversations do continue with the federal government on the child care deal. As I said, that’s something that matters immensely to families. I had a front-row seat to the whole thing when it started, and I know the work that the department did to get that actually over the finish line under the parameters that the federal government of the day gave us.
I still have some concerns around why we may not hit the average $10 per day, but I ran out of time, so I can’t say anything else.
THE CHAIR: Order. We’ll now move on to the government caucus for 11 minutes and 30 seconds, beginning with MLA Outhit.
TIM OUTHIT: I won’t take 11 minutes and 30 seconds. I just wanted to talk a little bit about annual maintenance. Somebody mentioned that anything built in the 1960s is getting pretty old. Well, as something that was built in the 1960s, with a little maintenance, I hope to have a little life left in me. That just made me think about if we could get a little bit of an update on the type of maintenance that’s being done annually to extend the life and improve the safety, of course, and healthiness of our schools.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: Again, my colleagues here have two things that happen for them: One, the projects that are approved under our repair budget, it really comes back to them and they go about the process of getting that work done with their teams. Just to go a bit into the Facility Condition Index and why that is so valuable to us, that didn’t exist before a couple of - the last two years, we’ve basically done assessments of all properties. They do a very comprehensive, 300-point assessment of every building. That’s a huge asset to us, but more so to my colleagues as they assess all of their maintenance needs in their buildings. To have that kind of a tool, that specific to help categorize things so that we’re really doing repair projects on things that change the Facility Condition Assessments.
Again, back to the Auditor General’s report, she identified our 10 schools with the highest or generally the oldest schools, and it really targets that repair work. For instance, those 10 schools that the Auditor General recognized, there are major capital repair projects happening in all of them to bring those conditions up to the level that they need to be at to keep them going longer. That tool has just been a quantifiable assessment that allows much more specific understanding of where the need is, and then for us to compare that across the province. It’s not that it’s really equitable in terms of the need there, but again, if you had time, I think all of these colleagues of mine have significant projects under way that they can probably speak a bit to their side of the equation.
THE CHAIR: MLA Outhit, would you like to hear from a few of the RCEs here?
TIM OUTHIT: No, I think there are a couple other folks who want to ask questions. Let me just really quickly - we’re all excited about the lunch program and the expanded lunch program, but that must have required some capital work as well. I don’t know if the deputy minister had any thoughts on that. If you had, just pivot quickly on that.
TRACEY BARBRICK: That did create another opportunity with the creation of the Nova Scotia School Lunch Program. In September was the second phase of that rollout. All schools other than dedicated Grade 10 to 12 schools now have a school lunch program. There are really three models that are used. One of them is employees of these people actually run what I call an old-school lunch program, where you have employees who work there. The second is using the on-site kitchen, but contracting out the service. The third piece is a fully tendered school lunch program.
With that fund - it’s about $65 million in school lunches - as we have built capacity to roll out school lunch programs, we had some schools with kitchens but didn’t meet the commercial needs of a school lunch production of that magnitude. We were able through that fund to actually do some upgrades in schools that allowed that kitchen to be functioning, as well as benefited the school in other ways, like electrical upgrades, things that allowed the school lunch program to operate but also benefited the school more broadly. That was a great opportunity for some capital repair work.
THE CHAIR: MLA Sheehy-Richard.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: I feel a little bit hungry. I will say as a side note, I just purchased the Nourish Nova Scotia What’s for Lunch? cookbook. We made as a family the noodle recipe on the weekend. It was absolutely delicious. We are making more of these.
[2:45 p.m.]
Anyway, I want to circle back because you brought up the collaborative design-build model. I’m just wondering, with that model, where you say the foundation can start before some of the design work is even complete, can it help prevent schools from not going over said budget? Does that play into account, why that model would be a collaborative approach?
THE CHAIR: Ms. McLellan.
TONYA MCLELLAN: Collaborative design-build - I’ll just give a little bit of a background on exactly what that is. It’s a model whereby we go out to industry. We prequalify groups - teams. The team would consist of a general contractor and then the designer. They’re engaged at the very beginning. In addition to that, it’s a very collaborative approach with respect to the Department of Public Works, and as well, EECD and the regional centres and CSAP as well. Everybody is at the table and they’re making decisions.
Parts of those decisions, of course, are around costing. What this process allows us to do is - there are different checkpoints along the way, and we get costing from both the construction design team and, as well, a third-party cost consultant. We compare the two and we look for ways - if our costs are starting to get somewhat out of line, we have the right people at the table at that time to look at what modifications, what sorts of things we could look for efficiencies in.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: I just have one more follow-up and I’m going to pass over. Would you say there have been any concerns if you identify a particular group around the delivery model, whether it leaves smaller, more local businesses out? How would the department be supporting Nova Scotia-grown businesses to participate in that collaborative approach?
TONYA MCLELLAN: I alluded to earlier that there are teams built. They consist of locally based construction companies. We encourage local design firms to partner up with those. Once we get that team put together and the design progresses and we’re tendering, they have to follow provincial guidelines for the tendering process. It’s wide open within the province.
I will say, though, that we have added some wording just of late to our requests for proposals encouraging the use of Nova Scotia materials as well as local content.
THE CHAIR: I think we’re going to move to MLA Fadare.
ADEGOKE FADARE: Some of my members opposite have talked about daycare. Schools in Nova Scotia now offer the Before and After Program. I’m just trying to find out what the responses are like from families and communities in terms of how that’s going to address the need in those areas.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: Again, my colleagues here have so much experience at their local level in implementing expansion to the Before and After Program. It really has been quite incredible. HRCE, of course, has EXCEL. The other RCEs and CSAP have other providers of before and after school care, but we’ve expanded capacity about 35 percent in before- and after-school care on site. Lots of families - that’s an excellent option for them to be able to take their child to school and the child stays in that one setting until they’re able to pick them up after work. For children six and over, that’s a very popular model and a significant expansion.
If you had time, I think there are lots of great experiences . . .
THE CHAIR: We’ll go to Mr. Gallagher with a minute and 20 seconds.
STEVE GALLAGHER: I appreciate the question. We see a demand in Halifax for before- and after-school care. We have for many years. Currently, we have 6,876 seats available. We have a wait-list, but we did grow the program between June and September of this year by 860 seats. I will say that we continue to look for opportunities to grow. With us, it’s not a question of space; we have the facilities. It’s a question of staff. It’s a challenge to hire folks to work partial segments of the day. That’s what we run into.
We’re actively recruiting. Every opportunity we have to put a note out there, if somebody wants to work part-time for us, we welcome them. Working with kids in the Before and After Program is a great opportunity and a good way to start or end your day. If you know anybody, let us know.
ADEGOKE FADARE: I’m excited to hear that because I think that offers each and every one an opportunity to put out the word within our communities to see how they can be a possible lead. From what I’ve heard today, I’m really encouraged. I think each person in here, regardless of political stripe, should be excited that there’s progress in the right direction. I think we’re making the right strides. I just want to say thank you for coming and have a good day.
THE CHAIR: To all of our guests today, thank you for coming. We’d like to extend an opportunity to any of our guests who would like just a few words to say in closing. Mr. Gallagher.
STEVE GALLAGHER: I just want to take a moment to thank you all for the invitation and the opportunity to talk about our story of growth in Halifax.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Jones.
DAVE JONES: I’ll echo the same comments as Mr. Gallagher. Pleased to be here, always excited to talk about what’s happening in the Annapolis Valley.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Purdy.
JARED PURDY: First and foremost, thanks for having me here today. I’m really excited about the work ahead in Tri-County and appreciate the collaboration with the government.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Kelley.
SUSAN KELLEY: I’ll echo the other statements. Thank you all. It’s been an education.
THE CHAIR: It always is for us too. Ms. Cooling.
KARYN COOLING: Hard to follow that. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time and appreciate being here.
THE CHAIR: M. Collette.
MICHEL COLLETTE: Thank you very much for your specific questions for CSAP. I have copies of the report with me if anyone wants a copy.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Gladwin.
ANGELA GLADWIN: Thank you all for having us here. I appreciate all of my team. It’s hard to come up with an original comment at this point, but thank you for your time.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Landry.
PAUL LANDRY: Thank you for the invitation to attend today.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister. No? Great. Thank you once again for coming. We’re going to take just about a two-minute recess to allow our guests to leave, and then we’ll just come back to our committee business as soon as our guests go.
[2:53 p.m. The committee recessed.]
[2:56 p.m. The committee reconvened.]
THE CHAIR: Order. Could you close the doors, please? We’ll get back into our business. I understand a motion has come through. MLA Wozney, do you have a couple of comments?
PAUL WOZNEY: I do. Do you want me to just read the motion, and then . . . (Interruption) The motion reads:
Whereas Nova Scotia has some of the highest child care fees in the country, with families paying more than $20 a day; and
Whereas the responsible minister has admitted that families will not see their child care costs drop to $10 a day in the spring, as was previously promised; and
Whereas by not lowering fees to $10 a day, families will spend thousands of dollars more on child care each year than parents in other provinces;
Therefore I move that the Standing Committee on Human Resources affirm its support for the delivery of, on average, $10-a-day child care for Nova Scotia parents by April 2026. We request a clear plan outlining the steps that will be taken to meet our target of $10-a-day child care for all parents and the creation of over 9,500 child care spaces.
THE CHAIR: There’s a motion on the table. Discussion? MLA Mombourquette.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Just very quickly, I want to confirm, because this came up in the committee today, which is my concern around how this government has handled this child care deal from day one, which was a constant fight with the Trudeau government, whom they wanted to fight with all of the time. This was from two weeks ago in CBC, where the federal government representative from Employment and Social Development Canada told CBC in an email, negotiations with Nova Scotia on a new Canada-wide ELCC agreement have not occurred. I just want to put that on the record. Hopefully those conversations happened.
We are in full support of this because it is the spirit of the agreement to hit $10 a day in the first round, and of course, we support the motion.
THE CHAIR: MLA Gallagher.
KRISTA GALLAGHER: As you know, I’m a mother and I can relate to families who are talking to me about child care prices, and $10-a-day child care would make a big difference in the lives of Nova Scotians. I think we should recommit to $10 a day.
THE CHAIR: MLA Sheehy-Richard.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: I just want to make a few comments. I don’t know if anyone realizes, but after I had my third baby, I myself provided child care in my home and took in other children as a means to both have a little bit of income, but also help families in a much-needed rural community. What I think is being overlooked is that we’re creating something that never existed. It’s a whole new set of ways and systems, and each individual, whether it be private or funded, has their own business model.
I don’t think that it should be overlooked also about the inclusion of private child care arrangements, which would have been something that I offered. I know as myself personally, I would think that that would have been a lot to learn. I was very happy to see that, because I think in especially rural Nova Scotia, we’re going to rely heavily to meet our targets with those organizations and with those at-home - I lost my train of thought - at-home providers.
Also, we continue to have ongoing dialogue - I’m not sure why that article would say that - with the federal government. I know, speaking with Minister Maguire, that that is occurring. We appreciate the cooperation that we’ve had with them. Like I said, this is a transformational process that we’re trying to undertake. With that, we will not be supporting this motion. The motion cannot circumvent or replace conversations that still need to happen . . .
THE CHAIR: Order. That will be deferred until the next meeting. The next meeting will be December 2, 2025, from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. The topic will be Government Investment in Health Care Tuition Programs, and the Response of the Post-Secondary Institutions. The witnesses will be the Department of Advanced Education and the Nova Scotia Community College with Don Bureaux, president, and Andrew Lafford, vice-president academic.
With that, the meeting is adjourned.
[The committee adjourned at 3:00 p.m.]
