HANSARD
NOVA SCOTIA HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
STANDING COMMITTEE
ON
HUMAN RESOURCES
Tuesday, December 2, 2025
Committee Room
Government Investment in Health Care Tuition Programs,
and the Response of Post-Secondary Institutions
and
Appointments to Agencies, Boards and Commissions
Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services
HUMAN RESOURCES COMMITTEE
Chris Palmer (Chair)
Rick Burns (Vice Chair)
Hon. Trevor Boudreau
Melissa Sheehy-Richard
Adegoke Fadare
Krista Gallagher
Paul Wozney
Hon. Iain Rankin
Hon. Derek Mombourquette
In Attendance:
Kilian Schlemmer
Legislative Counsel
Robin Dann
Legislative Committee Clerk
WITNESSES
Department of Advanced Education
Tracey Barbrick, Deputy Minister
Lindsay Wadden, Senior Executive Director
Office of Healthcare Professionals Recruitment
Kim Barro, Associate Deputy Minister
Kathleen DeCoste, Senior Executive Director, HHR and OHPR
Nova Scotia Community College
Don Bureaux, President
Connie Fisher, Dean, School of Health and Human Services
HALIFAX, TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2025
STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES
1:00 P.M.
CHAIR
Chris Palmer
VICE-CHAIR
Rick Burns
THE CHAIR: Order. I call this meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Human Resources. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Chris Palmer, MLA for Kings West, and I am the Chair of the committee. Today, in addition to reviewing appointments to agencies, boards, and commissions, we’ll hear from the Department of Advanced Education, the Office of Healthcare Professionals Recruitment, and Nova Scotia Community College regarding Government Investment in Health Care Tuition Programs, and the Response of Post-Secondary Institutions.
At this point, I would like to ask everyone in the room to please put your phones to silent and be sure not to touch your microphone when you are called upon. Legislative TV will be controlling your microphones for you.
I’d like to ask all of our committee members to introduce themselves for the record, please, and we’ll begin with Vice-Chair Burns.
[The committee members introduced themselves.]
THE CHAIR: Thank you, committee members. For the purposes of Hansard, I’d also like to recognize the presence of Legislative Counsel Kilian Schlemmer to my left and Legislative Committee Clerk Robin Dann to my right.
Many of our guests today have appeared at our Human Resources Committee before, so you know we usually have a bit of business that we attend to before we get to speak with you, which is our appointments to agencies, boards, and commissions. We’ll proceed with that part of our meeting right now.
I’ll look for a motion. MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For our first nomination for the Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage, I recommend Todd McDougall, Barry Bernard, Matthew Johnson, Jason Kassouf, and Matthew Ryder be appointed as members to the Nova Scotia Combat Sports Authority.
THE CHAIR: There is a motion on the table. Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: Also for the Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage, I recommend Mickey MacDonald be appointed member, Chair designate to the Nova Scotia Combat Sports Authority.
THE CHAIR: There is a motion on the table. Discussion?
MLA Wozney.
PAUL WOZNEY: Just before you call the question, I want to draw to the attention of the committee that Mickey MacDonald donated nearly $5,000 to the Progressive Conservative Party of Nova Scotia last year and this appointment as Chair of the Combat Sports Authority comes with a $2,000 per annum honorarium funded by the taxpayers of Nova Scotia, plus another $45 every meeting that Mr. MacDonald would chair. The appearance of political partisanship in this appointment is one I think the committee should be concerned with.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, MLA Wozney. No further discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Health and Wellness, I move to recommend Paulette Anderson be appointed public representative to the Board of the Nova Scotia College of Nursing.
THE CHAIR: There is a motion on the table. Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Health and Wellness, I move to recommend Mark Zwicker be appointed public representative to the Board of the Nova Scotia Regulator of Respiratory Therapy.
THE CHAIR: MLA Burns, could you just repeat the name again for me, please?
RICK BURNS: Martin Zwicker.
THE CHAIR: There is a motion on the table. Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Justice, I move to recommend Denise Pictou Maloney with the legal name of Denise DiGiosia and Thomas Jollota be appointed members to the Accessibility Advisory Board.
THE CHAIR: There is a motion on the table. Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Justice, I move to recommend David Fairbanks be appointed member, Town of Amherst, to the Municipal Board of Police Commissioners.
THE CHAIR: There is a motion on the table. Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Justice, I move to recommend Paula Huntley be appointed member, Town of Kentville, to the Municipal Board of Police Commissioners.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Justice, I move to recommend Glen Myers be appointed member, Town of New Glasgow, to the Municipal Board of Police Commissioners.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Justice, I move to recommend William (Bill) Chace be appointed member, Town of Westville, to the Municipal Board of Police Commissioners.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Justice, I move to recommend Julie Langille be appointed member, Municipality of the District of Lunenburg, to the Police (RCMP) Advisory Boards.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Justice, I move to recommend Peter Murray be appointed member, Municipality of the County of Kings, to the Police (RCMP) Advisory Boards.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Natural Resources, I move to recommend Donald Connor be appointed member to the Shubenacadie Canal Commission.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Public Works, I move to recommend Robert Batherson and Donna Smith Darrell be appointed members to the Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Discussion?
MLA Wozney.
PAUL WOZNEY: I just want to flag for the committee that Robert Batherson is a known close acquaintance of the Premier. This is yet another in a trend of known partisan Progressive Conservative Party loyalists being appointed to boards by this committee. Mr. Batherson’s track record with the PC Party of Nova Scotia is longer than some of the actual PC members serving on this committee. He was the press secretary for former Premier John Hamm before becoming President of the Progressive Conservative Association of Nova Scotia. More recently, he was a candidate and worked closely with Pierre Poilievre’s team federally.
Now, this government wants to appoint him to the Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission, where he will benefit from a $3,600 per year, plus expenses, honorarium funded by the taxpayers of Nova Scotia. I believe Nova Scotians deserve to know who else applied and why certain people are being recommended over others. From where we sit, it certainly looks like this government has no issue hand-picking friends who were not elected.
THE CHAIR: MLA Boudreau.
HON. TREVOR BOUDREAU: I thought it would be important to just get something on the record here. There is an insinuation that Mr. Batherson isn’t qualified to be on a committee of this nature, but Mr. Batherson has been a strong community volunteer for many years across Halifax and across Nova Scotia. I just want to highlight a couple of points to that. He’s a former Chair of the Halifax Chamber of Commerce; he’s a former Chair of Neptune Theatre; and also a former member of the Halifax International Airport Authority. This is an appointment of somebody who has incredible experience on a number of different boards, and we’ll certainly support his recommendation moving him forward as a board member with the experience that you want on a commission like this.
THE CHAIR: No further discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: For the Department of Service Nova Scotia, I move to recommend Adam Tipert be appointed member, embalmer, to the Board of Registration of Embalmers and Funeral Directors.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: The last recommendation: For the Department of Service Nova Scotia, I move to recommend Valerie Wilson be appointed member, consumer advocate, to the Board of Registration of Embalmers and Funeral Directors.
THE CHAIR: Motion on the table. Discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
We’d like to thank our guests for their patience.
THE CHAIR: MLA Mombourquette.
HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Just for the record, Chair, I apologize for being a few minutes late. I just want to get on the record that I’m in attendance. I was never late for work when I worked at Marconi Campus ever. (Laughter) But I just wanted to get on the record that I’m here, just for the folks in back.
THE CHAIR: I was about to get to that, so thank you for taking the lead. I appreciate that. We will now move on to our guests. The topic for our meeting today: Government Investment in Health Care Tuition Programs, and the Response of the Post-Secondary Institutions. We’d like to welcome you all here today. We can begin with introductions of the table, and then we’ll get into our opening statements after that. Maybe we’ll begin on my left with Ms. Wadden.
[The witnesses introduced themselves.]
THE CHAIR: We’d like to offer our guests some opening remarks. I’ll begin with Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: Thank you for the opportunity to join you today to speak on behalf of the Department of Advanced Education about Government Investment in Health Care Tuition Programs, and the Response of the Post-Secondary Institutions. I appreciate being here today alongside my colleagues within the department, the Office of Healthcare Professionals Recruitment, and Nova Scotia Community College.
As you all know, health care professionals are the backbone of our health care system. From doctors and nurses to paramedics and medical lab technologists, demand for health care workers continues to be high. At the Department of Advanced Education, we collaborate with sector partners to understand their current and emerging workforce needs. With those priorities in mind, we work with our post-secondary institutions to ensure training and education programs are aligned and responsive.
In the health sector, we work closely with the Office of Healthcare Professionals Recruitment to identify gaps in the system, both now and into the future. They have deep insight into the sector, maintaining close connections with Nova Scotia Health Authority, the IWK Health Centre, Emergency Health Services, and other key health care providers. Drawing on this information, we partner with our post-secondary institutions to determine the most effective ways to meet those workforce needs.
Universities and colleges are critical in training the health care workers our province needs. There are approximately 50 different health professions supported by post-secondary education. Out of Nova Scotia’s universities and colleges, health education programming is provided by six universities, 12 Nova Scotia Community College campuses, and 16 private career colleges.
In 2024-25, we invested more than $44 million in health care education initiatives, including:
• the delivery of the CCA-Practical Nursing Bridging Program pathway pilot at the Truro campus;
• the continuation of 120 additional permanent seats in the LPN program and the increase of 180 LPNs across the province for a total of 445 seats for the 2025-26 academic year;
• and the reimbursement of tuition and fees of eligible students in the continuing care assistant program.
Dalhousie University, as a significant provider of health education in the province, received funding for programs for nurses, physician assistants, allied health professionals, and social workers. Specifically, Dalhousie has been supported for:
• the ongoing delivery of their Bachelor of Science in Nursing program;
• the delivery of a two-year Master of Physician Assistant Studies program;
• the final year of the Africentric Bachelor of Social Work Cohort;
• the delivery of the Master of Nursing, advanced practice, mental health and addictions program;
• the Medical School, including funds for the continued seat expansion with a focus on rural and underrepresented groups, and the creation of 10 additional medical school seats, for a total of 135 between Dalhousie and CBU;
• the delivery of the master's level occupational therapy program and the master's level physiotherapy program;
• permanent seat expansion in the Nurse Practitioner Program for a total of 60 seats a year;
• the promotion of francophone and Acadian participation and success rates in regulated health programs;
• daily operations of the Dalhousie School of Social Work Community Clinic;
• and the Yarmouth nursing satellite site.
[1:15 p.m.]
We also provided targeted funding last year for:
• the new Cape Breton Medical Campus;
• a delivery of Bachelor of Science in Nursing programs at StFX and Cape Breton Universities;
• operation of the Bachelor of Science in Nursing satellite program at Acadia University in partnership with CBU;
• the first five academic years of the Doctor of Psychology program starting in 2026-27 at Mount Saint Vincent University;
• establishing the Office of L’nu Nursing to strengthen L’nu nursing education across the province;
• seats for the Medical Laboratory Technology program through the Michener Institute for students in Nova Scotia;
• and the purchase of 12 seats for N.S. francophone medical students at Université de Sherbrooke.
The path forward is clear. Together with our post-secondary partners, we will continue to ensure programs reflect the needs of the health care system. When we invest in health care education, we are investing in stronger, healthier communities. We look forward to continuing these important relationships as we work to offer post-secondary students the education they need and deserve for this province.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, Deputy Minister Barbrick.
Associate Deputy Minister Barro.
KIM BARRO: Good afternoon, and thanks for the opportunity to join you here today.
Joining me is Kathleen DeCoste, our senior executive director of the Office of Healthcare Professionals Recruitment and Health Human Resources at the department. Kathleen and I will do our best to answer your questions today, within the scope and mandate of both the office and the Department of Health and Wellness.
The demand for health care continues to grow. To meet that demand, we are focused on how we can transform our health care system to meet the needs of an aging population, like initiatives that support new, enhanced, and expanded programs and services and opportunities that increase and improve access to care for patients in their communities. As the demand for health care grows, so does the demand for qualified and skilled health care professionals - more doctors, more nurses, and more health care providers of almost every type, designation, and specialty.
Access to education is a critical part of our broader health human resources strategy. We are working with our colleagues across government to build capacity and ensure that our health system remains sustainable and responsive to the needs of Nova Scotians now and into the future.
There is a worldwide shortage of physicians. We are not immune, so we looked long-term. We added a new medical school at Cape Breton University, which will train 30 new doctors every year to practise in rural Nova Scotia. We did the same with nurses, adding 400 more seats at our nursing schools. We also looked at how we could make it easier for health care professionals to come here from other places. We passed the Patient Access to Care Act to help streamline that process.
We also created the Physician Assessment Centre of Excellence. This centre is the first of its kind in North America and will see internationally trained physicians get licensed faster to practise in the communities across the province. PACE will assess internationally trained physicians, while at the same time providing much-needed primary care services to Nova Scotians. PACE will serve as a primary care health home, and it will attach patients who are waiting for a family doctor.
Over time, the centre will expand to assess 45 new candidates per year across multiple sites in the province, focusing on assessing internationally trained physicians for primary care practice and hospitalist medicine in Nova Scotia. As PACE grows in its capacity to assess internationally trained physicians, it will also grow in its ability to provide primary health care to Nova Scotians. When fully operational, PACE expects to provide attachment for the provision of primary health care to 6,500 Nova Scotians. We are working with our partners at the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Nova Scotia and the Medical Council of Canada to put new solutions like this in action.
We are also creating opportunities for health care providers to advance their careers in Nova Scotia. In 2021, government expanded eligibility criteria to allow more LPNs to qualify for the Bachelor of Science and Nursing programs at Cape Breton University and St. Francis Xavier University. Last year, we announced that the Province would cover the full cost of tuition and books for 30 future LPNs who agreed to work in continuing care in Nova Scotia for two years after graduating.
The Province offers a job to all graduating nurses from a Nova Scotia program, and to further incentivize our nurses, we began a $10,000 retention bonus for nurses who commit to staying in Nova Scotia. We also cover salaries for six RNs while they attend the Dalhousie two-year Masters of Nursing MP program in exchange for five years of work in a designated community. Government will invest $900,000 over the next two years in this round of nurse practitioner education incentives.
For paramedics, we provided more than $6 million to cover full tuition costs for more than 460 people who want to become a primary care paramedic or Emergency Medical Responder. We now train Emergency Medical Responders, a new role, to help keep more ambulances available, reducing wait times and allowing paramedics to focus on emergency calls.
Nova Scotia is a great place to train and work as a health care provider. We have great compensation and incentives for family doctors, nurses, and paramedics. We are home to world-class post-secondary institutions, and we are committed to continuing to work creatively with our partners across government and academia to grow our health care workforce. Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions today.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, ADM Barro. Mr. Bureaux.
DON BUREAUX: What a pleasure it is to be joining you today with my colleague, Connie Fisher, Dean of our School of Health and Human Services.
With the ever-pressing priorities facing our government, we can confirm what an important investment these tuition programs are to the College and most importantly, to those who have benefitted from them. We know it to be true that not only do these programs provide greater access for learners who might feel that post-secondary education is out of reach, but we know it to be true that these initiatives immediately bolster the enrolment of students who, once they complete their studies and training, will find and fill key employment positions in important caring profession like Practical Nursing and Continuing Care.
At NSCC, we continue to partner with government and industry partners to work more strategically with the aim of encouraging and preparing more individuals to serve in, and therefore address, high demand needs in critical fields like health. By strengthening our current collaborative efforts, including supporting underrepresented communities, upskilling and creating pathways from one profession to another, and augmenting current resources, we know we can move more quickly to achieve the goals we each hold for our province, the health care system, and importantly, the communities we serve.
Chair, you and the members have already heard from our colleagues a number of the important initiatives that illustrate the College’s work relative to today’s topic including our Continuing Care Assistants Tuition Incentive Program, our Continuing Care Assistant (CCA) to Practical Nursing (PN) bridge pilot program, and our first-ever Accelerated Practical Nursing program of which we’ve completed two of three pilots. I have the opportunity, as do many of my colleagues, of actually sitting down and speaking with students and graduates who benefit from these programs and who are able to pursue careers right here in Nova Scotia.
Recently, in speaking with three - to quote one of our recent learners, “I would never ever even let myself dream of going back to school until I found out I would qualify for this initiative. I feel extremely lucky to have this opportunity, and I am happy that when it's all over, I will be able to help my community by working at our local nursing home.” A second learner said, “It has lifted a lot of stress off me, I always wanted to attend post-secondary, and this gave me the freedom to do so. I had children early in my life, and now I feel it’s my time to further my education and start a career.” Finally, a graduate said, “This support makes me feel valued and shows that government places a priority on the program and that it's an important job.”
We’re proud at NSCC to be an access college. One of the proudest stats that I can recite is that almost 40 percent of our students are the first generation in their family to attend post-secondary education. Many of these words that I just shared remind us how important these recent supports are in opening up additional opportunities and offering a needed boost to help build their future and ours as a community. Discussions are always ongoing with our partners seated here today on additional initiatives that we can incorporate into our work to further immerse our health care system with the professionals that needed.
I am very proud of those learners, and I’m very proud to be here today. I’m also very proud as the president of a public college, of which there are 150 in Canada. I often get called by my presidential colleagues across the country who want to come to Nova Scotia and learn first-hand of the innovative programs that we’re working on with our industry partners and our government partners.
Again, thank you for the opportunity to speak today. Connie and I will be most happy to answer any questions that you might have.
THE CHAIR: We’ll now enter into our question-and-answer period with the members of the different caucuses. Just a quick reminder again to wait until we reference your name before you speak into your microphone. We will have 20 minutes from the Official Opposition, 10 minutes from the third party, and then 30 minutes from the government caucus in the first hour. We will do a hard stop at the 20 minutes. If you’re in the middle of a comment, we may have to cut you off, just so you know how the process works here.
We will now move on to the Official Opposition. It will be MLA Wozney.
PAUL WOZNEY: I’d like to direct the first question to the Department of Advanced Education. We know that understaffing is a major issue across the health care and long-term care sectors. The government has committed tens of millions of dollars to cover the tuition of continuing care assistants, paramedics, and licensed practical nurses, and yet Nova Scotians continue to experience long waits in emergency rooms and to get into long-term care. Stats about how much the government is spending on recruitment are not in and of themselves a metric of success or impact. I have a few questions that really explore what the department is doing to ensure these investments are translating into improved health access for Nova Scotians.
My first question is: How is the department measuring success for the programs the government is covering tuition for? Perhaps as a starting point, we can look at what the graduation rate is for candidates under this umbrella of programs.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: The continuum of health care needs really translate from post-secondary into employment, orientation, recruitment, and retention as an employer over the lifetime of an employee. I think my colleagues at the Department of Health and Wellness and the Office of Healthcare Professionals Recruitment will talk a bit about - that the education piece is one component of a much larger picture. One of the things, of course, that we’re doing with all of our partners, from NSCC to our universities, is a commitment to ensuring that every one of our health care seats is fully utilized.
You would have seen a bit of a celebration yesterday that our additional 1,800 seats in health care across universities - that does not count our friends here at the table, but on the university side - 97 percent occupied for all of those 1,800 health care seats was a target for them in their bilateral agreement. We celebrated yesterday that we have achieved that, with one small exception of Université Sainte-Anne, which is two seats shy in their social work program. Every other health care program across the province, with our post-secondary colleagues, is fully occupied and meeting the commitment that they made in the bilateral. That is step one.
The success of the students throughout that program and the five-year follow-up assessment to students - all universities, and NSCC as well, do track student success over time. I know I’ve seen recently NSCC is something like 90 percent - they can fill in the details - 90 percent of the students who graduated are expressing high satisfaction with the program they were in and attachment to a workforce in their field. We work with all universities to ensure that those seats are occupied and remain occupied throughout the program. They provide enrolment stats to us, and in their bilateral agreement, there are multiple dates that enrolment is reported to us.
PAUL WOZNEY: Thank you for discussing the enrolment rate in these programs. Despite the fact that these programs are 97 percent full, in terms of X number of vacancies and X number of students, my question is: What is the graduation rate for this suite of programs where the government covers tuition for candidates engaged in learning in these programs? I’m looking specifically for graduation rates for the entire sphere that we’re talking about.
[1:30 p.m.]
TRACEY BARBRICK: We have, between employers and educators in each area of health care collaborative industry, tables, if you will, around continually ensuring that the students who come through the programs are meeting the needs of the workforce. Universities are highly motivated to ensure that their seats remain occupied because they’re funded when they’re occupied. Their tuition revenue that comes from the seats is a high motivation of theirs to ensure that they are successful. The actual graduation rates for each university, I don’t have with me today.
PAUL WOZNEY: Perhaps the deputy minister could furnish those graduation rates to the committee as a follow-up. Continuing with the Department of Advanced Education, we know that one of the features of the programs we’re here to discuss today is return-of-service agreements for continuing care and long-term care, paramedics, and LPNs. To qualify for these programs, there has to be a signature or a commitment to return of service. I’m wondering if we can hear about how many of those return-of-service agreements are broken, and if so, what efforts are being undertaken to learn why those who choose to leave service in a profession - what are the reasons for that? Why are they not honouring their return-of-service commitments?
TRACEY BARBRICK: I can’t speak to the return of service. Those aren’t administered by the Department of Advanced Education. My colleagues might have more to offer on that.
THE CHAIR: MLA Wozney, do you want to redirect the question?
PAUL WOZNEY: I’m not sure if Ms. Barro is in a position to answer the question, but I think it’s an important question for this committee to have input on.
THE CHAIR: ADM Barro.
KIM BARRO: I don’t have the exact stats, but what I do understand is that for many professions, the return of service and the commitment to that are not a problem. They stay. One of the reasons that we ensure that we have offerings in many different parts of Nova Scotia and different programs is that people in those communities go into those programs. Because they’re from those communities, they want to go back to those communities and serve those communities. The return of service for Nova Scotians in these programs - I can’t say for sure, but I’ve never heard it to be a problem from an employer perspective. Nova Scotia Health Authority is not saying that their nurses are not completing their return of service.
Sometimes we don’t have our physicians who stay for return of service, and I think that’s mostly for internationally trained physicians. They tend to potentially go to more cosmopolitan places that have communities bigger than what is in Nova Scotia. Sometimes that is, but for most of the health care professionals, I would say that the return of service is not an issue.
PAUL WOZNEY: I appreciate the answer appears to be anecdotal. My question is: What system efforts are being made to monitor this as a metric of the success of these programs? If we are not monitoring how often return-of-service agreements are breached and providing free tuition for programs - many of these programs are rapid, condensed programs - there’s a loss to the people of Nova Scotia who paid significant funds to see people all the way through. If this is not a metric currently in place, it begs the question as to why not.
A follow-up question really has to do with the attrition rate. Post-graduation - two years after, five years after - what is the attrition rate? How many people who graduate and enter the professions that they’ve trained to work in remain in those professions, delivering impact? I’m wondering if somebody - whoever is best positioned to answer the question - can speak to how attrition rates are measured and tracked by the government, and what the statistics are for attrition for paramedics, continuing care assistants, and LPNs who come through these condensed tuition-covered programs.
THE CHAIR: Is that an open invitation to any of our panelists who would like to speak on that, MLA Wozney? Who would be the most appropriate who would like to take that question?
Associate Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: We had a conversation about this, I think, another time when I was in here about another profession that escapes me right now. I think the question is if we track individuals over time as they move throughout the world or the province or the country or the globe. A number of things happen right now. Certainly the post-secondary institutions and NSCC would be able to speak to how this happens for NSCC.
I graduated from StFX and Dalhousie, and I occasionally get surveys from those universities asking me where I am in the world. I may or may not choose to answer those questions based on my own comfort providing that. I think a challenge is - as graduates from your program, they can choose to provide personal information about themselves or not. We don’t currently have a system in this province where an individual would have an identifier that we track them through the life of the person. Right now, the post-secondary institutions do follow up with their graduates to ask if they’re still working in the sector. That’s often up to about five years, and then people move on in their lives.
We currently aren’t able to track a person’s attrition to their profession. Every regulated college would have numbers for profession-in and profession-out on an annual basis, depending on how many people have a licence, but not at the individual level throughout the life of their career. We don’t have anything like that. Very powerful, though.
PAUL WOZNEY: I’m certainly not suggesting we track people throughout the entirety of their career, but we know new graduates - gone is the generation that’s willing to suffer through the initial slog of two, five, and ten years to get to the sweet spot of a career. Generations Y and Z are much quicker to make definitive changes in their work lives when working conditions and work-life balance are not sustainable, in their view.
There’s a bit of a social contract here. When the people of Nova Scotia fund somebody and they sign on the dotted line that they’re going to stay and work in Nova Scotia, the people of Nova Scotia should be able to count on those promises being kept. The inability of the department, or the different organizations, whether that’s health authorities - but when return-of-service agreements are signed, for there to be no ability to monitor if people are leaving the profession after two, after five, after ten - certain key milestones, early career - it really mitigates the government’s ability to monitor whether or not this spending is delivering longitudinal impact. We think that’s a pretty important feature when you are making a very necessary investment in health care in Nova Scotia.
I want to transition to a different question for the Office of Healthcare Professionals Recruitment. We often hear from people who work in our hospitals and other health facilities that they’re overwhelmed and dealing with difficult working conditions, including understaffing. At the Cobequid Community Health Centre, we have an emergency room with no in-patient capacity, which often leaves staff concerned and stressed about their patients when they can’t be transferred in a timely way to another facility that can take on their care needs. Staff at this location tell us that they are choosing not to stay long-term at sites like the Cobequid because of structural working conditions.
I’m wondering if you can speak to what you’re doing to address staff concerns that mitigate retention at places like the Cobequid and other understaffed and under-resourced hospitals.
KIM BARRO: One of the things that we’re doing is to increase our ability to bring in hospitalists. We brought in the Physician Assessment Centre of Excellence, which initially the focus was in primary care and bringing in primary care physicians, but soon realized, to your point, that we need more physicians to be able to work in a hospital setting - for those various reasons that you have mentioned. We established through PACE a new program that will bring in four new hospitalists every year. The two program sites are the Dartmouth General Hospital, which just started and it’s at capacity. They’re doing two hospitalists right now, and then the Colchester East Hants Health Centre will bring on two more hospitalists in the winter.
Having four new hospitalists coming into the province to help with these things, that’s an example of an initiative that we’ve taken seriously in terms of how we will address in a short-term some of the conditions and some of the stress that we have in sites like Cobequid.
THE CHAIR: MLA Wozney with four minutes and 30 seconds.
PAUL WOZNEY: Following up with the Office of Healthcare Professional Recruitment. We know parking issues in the Halifax Regional Municipality have been impacting staff’s willingness to work at some of our largest and busiest hospitals due to inflated costs, but also safety concerns when they have to find parking options far from their worksite. How is the department tracking and reacting to policy implementation like free parking and its impact on retention, especially among new grads who we need to recruit and retain going forward?
KIM BARRO: The implementation of free parking for staff and patients was a very important move forward to help with making the trip to work and your ability to get to work on time - very important. We have established in the Halifax area several hundred new parking spots, which staff can have. There is monitoring and a valet service so that we’re actually monitoring if folks come into our parking facilities and they’re not either staff or patients and family, and have the ability to issue an issue ticket to those as one deterrent not to have inappropriate people take up those very important parking spots for our staff and our families.
PAUL WOZNEY: Final question for the Office of Healthcare Professional Recruitment: Obviously with the investments that are being made in these programs, we want the health care graduates from these programs to be able to succeed and remain in Nova Scotia. Can you speak to what the government is doing to monitor and address external issues that impact retention, such as affordable housing and escalating rents? More particularly, how is the housing crisis across Nova Scotia impacting the retention of new grads?
KIM BARRO: Part of the reason that we have instituted several new programs in different rural areas is to ensure that people from those areas can attend those schools and it doesn’t add to the housing crisis. That’s one of the strategies: making sure that we have programs and supports close to home. The housing crisis is real. I actually can’t speak to how that is affecting retention of our new recruits. However, we do feel that if people are coming from a community, going back to the community, then the housing options would be less of a crisis.
THE CHAIR: One minute and 20 seconds, MLA Wozney.
PAUL WOZNEY: Looping back to that question, I appreciate operating programs in community so people don’t have to leave their homes, but the housing crisis is not unique to Halifax. Even when we operate programs in places like Digby and Yarmouth, we know there are bidding wars on new apartments. The vacancy rates are so low that landlords basically say, “Make me an offer.”
[1:45 p.m.]
We’re keenly attuned to the pressures that a lack of affordable, sustainable housing is putting on new graduates to be able to go and remain. It’s one thing to live at home with your parents, but when you want to move out and have a place to live, it seems to me that one of the things that government should be monitoring is if people are leaving the province and breaking return-of-service agreements, and a key factor is, “I can’t afford to live here,” that’s an important factor that should be tracked and monitored. I’m just wondering what efforts could be taken by the department to start to keep tabs on that.
THE CHAIR: Ms. DeCoste, 10 seconds.
KATHLEEN DECOSTE: I suppose in 10 seconds, we would just say we are certainly aware of the issue, and we’re working closely with our colleagues across government, including Build Nova Scotia, the Department of Public Works, the Nova Scotia Health Authority, and others . . .
THE CHAIR: Order. MLA Mombourquette.
HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you to all the witnesses today. Good to see you all from the department. Good to see you from the college. I only have 10 minutes, so I’m just going to jump right in as quick as I can. In 2024, the Progressive Conservative Party’s platform promised to establish an internal travel nursing team. My first question is: How much progress has been made by the government in establishing this agency?
THE CHAIR: Ms. DeCoste.
KATHLEEN DECOSTE: Good progress has been made. Certainly, we’re working closely with the Nova Scotia Health Authority in the rollout of that pilot project. As you know, critical shortages require really innovative solutions. In working with the Nova Scotia Health Authority, I believe in key zones, they’re starting to roll out a pilot program. There’s been a lot of interest from the base nursing workforce, especially younger nurses, with the option to travel, to experience some of the unique health service offerings in different communities around Nova Scotia.
We’re seeing from the Nova Scotia Health Authority that early results are indicating a good uptake from nurses, especially younger nurses in that pilot program - the internal nursing rotation that you’re mentioning - but it will take some time for the system to roll something like that out across the province and gradually reduce reliance on agency nursing. So far, so good. We’d be happy to get back to you with some additional information.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Thank you for that - if you could provide the committee with any kind of timeline as to when the plan is to roll that out across the province. My next question is around LPNs and the hourly wages for LPNs across the province and the country. In 2023, the government offered LPNs working in the public sector a $10,000 retention incentive. My question is: What’s the plan for the actual wages for LPNs in that program? There have been a lot of conversations around hourly wages. If I could get an update on that, I would appreciate it.
THE CHAIR: I’ll look for direction. (Interruption) We’ll let the guests decide. Ms. DeCoste.
KATHLEEN DECOSTE: We may need to get back to you with some of the specifics on that front. We’ll need to speak with Nova Scotia Health Authority.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: The reason I ask the question is because the question really becomes around, you provided an incentive versus actually just providing the hourly wages to the workers. I would argue there are lots of incentives. I was on that side too. We looked at various incentives for various programs, but in this case, there’s a lot of conversation around the hourly wages. I would argue that incentives are one thing, but move towards getting the wages in place for those workers.
What’s the most common reason that LPNs leave the workforce here in the province? That is my next question.
KATHLEEN DECOSTE: I appreciate the question. Thank you for the question. Certainly, as you said, wages, incentives, and financial compensation are critical, especially in challenging times and prices of goods and services going up. We want to make sure Nova Scotia is remaining competitive. We know we certainly are competitive. We also know that there a lot of other factors that, as you said, contribute to a safe working environment for LPNs, RNs, and all staff in hospitals. We’re certainly highly focused on safety in the workplace, highly focused on making sure that there are career progression opportunities for nurses in our system, as some of my colleagues have spoken about.
As an LPN in the system, you may have started as a CCA or you may have started your journey as an LPN and have the opportunity to bridge to a registered nurse - and even from there, the opportunity to become a nurse practitioner. Career progression is also a significant area of interest for folks working in our system, and safety, I guess. Those are two things, as well as the culture of the workplace. We’re working closely with our partners - the Nova Scotia Health Authority, the IWK, our educational partners - to make sure that the practice environments are welcoming and that the integrated learning is reflective of what those clinical settings are with folks going into them.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: This is around the Accelerated Nursing Program. This actually has come up a couple of times with me on the Island - the pilot program that’s offered at NSCC Ivany campus in Dartmouth. If the tuition program becomes permanent, what other campuses will be offered the program? I use Cape Breton as an example because I had a number of families reach out who wanted to take the program. Travel is a concern, and housing is a concern. Are you looking at expanding that? It would help a lot of folks who would want to take the program.
It can go to the people who give the money or the people who provide the program.
THE CHAIR: Ms. DeCoste, do you want to take the lead on this?
KATHLEEN DECOSTE: Sure, I would hand it to my colleague next to me.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Bureaux.
DON BUREAUX: Certainly all of our programs - we would be analysing the local demand, the local need on a continuous basis. Our hope without a particular campus in mind right now, we would be hoping to expand that to other locations. It’s been a very successful program. Students like it. Our industry partners like it. So for me it’s a winner.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I agree. It’s just that we dealt with a few situations on the Island where families were reaching out. They just couldn’t find housing or they have families. They’re trying to better their lives and expand into the health care system. That’s one of the big messages from me today. If you could look at expanding something like that, that would be great.
How much time do I have left, Chair?
THE CHAIR: Three minutes and 50 seconds.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: It just flies by, 10 minutes, I tell you.
My next question, we’ll go to NSCC. We’re here talking about a lot of programs. Health care today, childcare one day. There have been a lot of great partnerships with the community college since my time. Particularly in this world - we’re talking health care today - if there was a program that could be offered that would help support it, what is it? Something to expand on.
DON BUREAUX: I’ll give you a direct answer and an indirect answer. You hit on one. The Bridging Program is obviously a very successful one, so the opportunity to expand that in the future. We’ve also expanded other non-health-related programs that create the conditions for the health sector to thrive. For example, with support from our government partners, we’ve increased our trades programs by 180 seats and made a number of connections with the apprenticeship agency to make sure that more students can pursue a career in the trades to build those houses and apartments that we need. At the college, we’re looking at this as a multi-pronged approach where we can look at all of our programs.
The last thing I will say is that from a housing point of view, the college traditionally only had one on-campus residence. It was in Truro. We’ve added five to that over the past few years and we’re looking to add four more. Those on-campus housing projects are also an important cog in this wheel to make sure that the students can get the housing they need when they’re learning.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I want to go back to the incentive versus the way - well, I don’t want to say the incentive versus the way, just incentives transforming into what eventually will be a higher wage for those workers which we hear a lot of. Do you feel like the incentive has worked? Do you feel that there is anything that could have been done better around providing that incentive, maybe some of the incentive? Aside from the monetary piece of it, is there anything else you’re looking at for incentives for folks to enroll in these programs and to expand?
THE CHAIR: ADM Barro.
KIM BARRO: We do feel that the incentives work. Just to go back to pay, since I found my notes, at the time of the agreement, all LPNs, registered nurses, and nurse practitioners were at the top of the scale for Atlantic Canada. We actually think we’re doing very good in terms of wage compatibility across the sector. In terms of the incentives, I think one of the approaches that we are doing, particularly in nursing, is ensuring that we have career laddering - making sure that if you’re a CCA, you have opportunity to become an LPN. If you’re an LPN, you have opportunity to become an RN. If you’re an RN, you have opportunity to become a nurse practitioner.
That’s really important, because as your career progresses, then your opportunity to have more financial incentive also grows. That’s another strategy that we’re using - career laddering. We do it in paramedics. We offered a new program called emergency medical responder. If you’re in the control centre, you can go to be an emergency medical responder. Then you can go to become a primary care paramedic, and then you can be an advanced care paramedic. All of those ladderings have really helped.
In regard to the paramedics, we have . . .
THE CHAIR: Order. So sorry. That concludes the Liberal round of questioning.
We’ll now move on to the government caucus with 30 minutes. We’ll begin with MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: Good afternoon. Thank you all for coming in today and taking our questions.
I just wanted to start by asking, or commenting on, retention and recruitment. Retention is just as critical as recruitment. I wanted to ask what strategies are proving the most effective at keeping health care professionals here long term. We have programs like the doctor pension plan. Are there other strategies that are in play that are helping keep health care professionals here?
THE CHAIR: ADM Barro.
KIM BARRO: We do have several retention pieces that we work on. Return of service is one of the incentives that we utilize, particularly if we’re giving government money - taxpayers’ money - for free tuition. We think it’s very important that we have a return of service or something back to Nova Scotians.
I will say that although we may not track the amount, we do for physicians in physician services so that we know how many physicians break the return of service. Any practitioner who breaks the return of service has to pay back that return of service. It’s not like it’s free money and they can leave the province and not have any repercussions for that. We do feel that we’re putting some pieces in there.
In terms of the other incentives, bridging programs are really important. Like I just said, career laddering - making sure that there are incentives that we can support our health care practitioners to move in their career progression.
The other areas would be around novel approaches to retention. When we have the Physician Assessment Centre of Excellence, one of the things that happens for those physicians is called the Welcome Collaborative. That’s an orientation program where they meet several of those physicians who are coming from other parts of the world and they develop a little bit of a community of practice. Then they continue those things. I know in the Middleton area or whatever, we have a larger cadre of Nigerian physicians. They have developed a little community amongst themselves. They help each other.
What we do know, too, with our incentive - our relationship with Lebanese universities, by having those physicians come in and be surrounded by the Lebanese community helps with retention. As I said before, sometimes physicians don’t feel - and I’ll speak to physicians - that they find that here, and they do break their return of service and they go elsewhere. But we do try several things to make sure that people feel that they’re welcomed in community, that they build a community around them, that their children and their families can have people to talk to, sports to go into, or whatever. We do do several of those more concierge services to ensure retention.
We try to look at it holistically. We even, in the physician space, do look to housing. We do work with REALTORS around housing, et cetera. Now, physicians make a lot more money than lots of different practitioners, but we do try to ensure that they will have spaces to live and that they’re going to communities to work in and they can thrive in those communities.
[2:00 p.m.]
RICK BURNS: I think that really shows that retention really is holistic. Being part of your community and having roots in the community really help to keep people in the area. Certainly, Nova Scotia has a lot to offer in that space.
I’d like to move to asking Mr. Bureaux a couple of questions. I would start with: How many health programs does the college deliver, and are they available at each campus?
THE CHAIR: Mr. Bureaux.
DON BUREAUX: I’m going to ask my college, our Dean of Health and Human Services, who has those numbers at the top of her list - at her fingertips.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Fisher.
CONNIE FISHER: We have 19 core programs in the School of Health and Human Services. Seven of those are specific to health, and the balance would be more human services. Those span over the 12 different campuses in different deliveries. CCA, for example, is offered at 12 different sites; practical nursing is offered at 10 different sites. Others are single one-offs, but we span the province in terms of the offerings.
RICK BURNS: Can you give us some understanding and insight into what NSCC is doing to help in the health care sector, particularly with educating more learners faster in an urgent sector like health care through the programs that you’re offering?
CONNIE FISHER: I would say a theme of expansion in terms of increased seats related to practical nursing, related to pilots, and innovative programming specific to practical nursing - so some of the accelerated CCA-to-PN bridge programming, as well as acceleration. We’ve worked in partnership with government on the CCA programming that this year is now a 24- or 26-week, six-month program that was previously a nine-month program. That’s in delivery now at all of our campuses. We are really working to support a competency framework that ensures that graduates are employment-ready and connected to employers so that we are creating programming that is concise, relevant, and timely, and ensuring that we’re providing sufficient experience for students in terms of simulation, clinical placements, and applied learning.
Additionally, we’ve done an adjustment around our Disability Support Professionals. That program, in specific response to the Nova Scotia Remedy report, moved from a two-year program to a one-year program. Just really working to try to understand the best possible outcomes for students and the best possible quality programming that is related to the skills and practices that they’re needing in terms of their scope of practice and scope of employment in those regulated and unregulated health roles.
THE CHAIR: MLA Burns.
RICK BURNS: I’ll pass my time to my colleagues.
THE CHAIR: MLA Boudreau, you look like you want to say something.
HON. TREVOR BOUDREAU: It’s been a while. It’s my first meeting as a member of the Human Resources Committee. This is a topic that’s quite interesting to me. I am a health care provider; my wife is a health care provider. Five years ago - maybe even a bit longer than that - when I was asked if I was interested in running as a candidate, one of the things that really interested me was the Premier’s passion for looking at health care. I wore a few different hats before I ran, and one of them was on health care recruitment.
Some of you may be aware of Cape Breton South Recruiting for Health, but I was a town councillor at the time, struggling with physician recruitment in the area, and was a co-founder of that organization. When we talk about retention and the importance of retention, I think of the funding that is provided to organizations like Cape Breton South Recruiting for Health. They put on events to help with retention too. I give credit, certainly, to the department and the organizations involved, but certainly, at the local level too, what an organization like Cape Breton South Recruiting for Health and the Community of Care awards that they have, where they recognize health care practitioners in the community. It’s like a gala now. It’s a dress-up, by-invitation-only to go. It’s quite something, and celebrating the health care workers in the community. Thank you to the departments that support those initiatives at that local level as well.
I have a couple of different questions. I’m going to probably jump around a little bit to all of you. There were a couple of things that interested me. One of them was about the tuition-support programs that we have. We’ve talked about some for health care. I don’t know who would like to answer. Sometimes it’s confusing. There are all kinds of them where there’s tuition credit or support. Do we have a list of what those programs are, whether it’s with the department or with the college - which ones are supported that way? Are there other ones that are outside of health care as well?
THE CHAIR: As you all flip through notes, I’ll look for someone to raise their hand who would like to take the question. Mr. Bureaux.
DON BUREAUX: Internally we would be keeping a list of those programs for which there’s some form of incentive. I have it in front of me. We’d be more than happy to share that with the committee. It is one part of the incentive package that is so important to attracting learners into our programs.
As I mentioned earlier, housing is also a big one. But also, items like helping to find - once they graduate NSCC and they go into the community to work, if they’re moving communities it’s also important to try to perhaps find work for their spouse. Working with economic development agencies like the Halifax Partnership or the Cape Breton Partnership to identify employers in the local area who may be looking for employees. Daycare is a very significant part of the incentive, if you will, package. We’ve been very blessed by working with our government partners to make sure that our daycares at our campuses are strong and vibrant and able to accept new children.
The last thing that I’ll say is that - and my colleague Connie mentioned it - one of the most important factors is flexibility. There is a theme in education called meeting learners where they are. You meet learners where they are, not only in terms of geography but also in terms of timetables. If they need to work part-time, then we need to adjust our programming to allow them to study at a different time of the day.
TREVOR BOUDREAU: Anybody else care to share as well?
THE CHAIR: ADM Barro.
KIM BARRO: We have quite an extensive list of how we support our health care professionals. What we do for physicians is we have Nova Scotia-funded residency seats. We help Nova Scotians who are completing medical school find residency matches and then come back to Nova Scotia to practise. We have international medical graduate residency ROSAs. We have 62 of the family medicine seats - 16 are for IMG students. Those are for Nova Scotia students who go abroad and want to come back into Nova Scotia. They often want to find pathways back home. We do incentives to get them and help them come back to Nova Scotia to practise.
We have a clerkship return of service. We have a two-year - so we support participants to complete their third and fourth year of their medical school and apply to the CaRMS match. We require a return of service for that one as well.
We have a financial incentive for family medicine - up to $125,000 over five years, again, with a ROSA to come back to Nova Scotia or be in Nova Scotia but to set up a practice in a rural area, or now we have them available for Central. We have the same type of incentive for specialists to come back to Nova Scotia. For paramedics, we have a paramedic moving allowance, so if they’re coming from another area, we have a moving allowance for them. We have a moving allowance for physicians. CCAs, we cover tuition in exchange for students to work in Nova Scotia for two years after they’re finished. We have a paramedic tuition bursary program that provides full tuition. That has actually proven to be very successful. When we started with physicians - paramedics, my apologies - we had a very significant vacancy rate in Nova Scotia with regard to paramedics. Through the career laddering that I mentioned, through the free tuition, et cetera, we actually are projecting no vacancy rates in our paramedic community of practitioners. We feel that’s very much a success, to the point that we’re actually going to stop the free tuition and maybe continue with other incentives. We feel that that’s been so successful.
Those are just a few of the ones. I could go on. We have a lot of incentives.
THE CHAIR: Our meeting ends at 3:00 p.m.
MLA Boudreau.
TREVOR BOUDREAU: I think both have lists, and if that’s something that could be shared with the committee, that would be awesome, just so we get a handle on it. There’s a significant number. It’s easy to get confused about what’s there and what’s not.
I want to go to the community college and ask another question. Just with some of the tuition incentive programs, but also with some of the fast-paced changes that we’ve made with programs - intense programs - have you seen a change in the demographic of the people who are in the programs now? Have we seen any shift in who’s applying or who’s coming? Do you track that? Has that changed based on some of the work that we’ve done?
THE CHAIR: Ms. Fisher.
CONNIE FISHER: I think what we’ve anticipated with the free tuition or with funded programming is that we may or may not have a completely engaged student body - maybe concern that wasn’t full buy-in into the program if they weren’t actually having to pay their own way. I think we’ve been very impressed with the quality of the students in terms of their engagement. In many cases, the challenges and barriers that they would typically face related to things like housing, transportation, child care, and other barriers - cost of living and so on - those things are still influencing them, but what’s happening is students are very much engaged in their learning.
The flexible programming that we’ve offered around blended deliveries - we’re delivering programs that are online, and then they come into a campus or an area to complete their clinical - their labs and then their placements. What we’ve seen is that students are very appreciative of the time and the flexibility and the models that we’re piloting and trying and really trying to be responsive to the needs of students with a majority of them employed - high numbers of employment. In some cases, for some of the programs, it’s an actual requirement that they remain - for example, CCAs remaining in continuing care employed while they’re taking their PN program. They are needing to really be able to use their time in a way that is of value and be able to support their personal lives and their families.
They are engaged and they are very, very much invested, if you will, in the program and in their learning.
TREVOR BOUDREAU: I can talk for quite a while, but I’ll pass it on to my colleague over here.
THE CHAIR: MLA Sheehy-Richard.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask some questions. I’ve learned an awful lot in the office - in this meeting today that always seems to reflect constituents who I’m currently helping. That’s my favourite part of coming to committee. We as MLAs learn a significant amount.
My line of questioning was sort of covered, so I wanted to circle back on housing, which came up quite a few times. I’m just curious about the opportunity for the - I can’t remember what it’s called - the housing for health care initiative. You had mentioned, I think, in one of your opening remarks, about working across different levels of government, with Build Nova Scotia. I’m just wondering if you could elaborate on that - where the locations are and how that ties into recruitment and retention as well.
THE CHAIR: Ms. DeCoste.
KATHLEEN DECOSTE: It certainly is all hands on deck on the housing front. As I mentioned earlier, we’re working closely with our partners at local and provincial levels within health, but also with our employers like the Nova Scotia Health Authority, the IWK Health Centre, Build Nova Scotia, the Department of Public Works, and there certainly is a focus on housing for health care workers.
[2:15 p.m.]
Right now, we’re looking at what our data is telling us in terms of the need across different communities. It’s different, but as one of the members previously mentioned, it’s unique in each community but certainly it’s a universal challenge. In some of the smaller communities, I know that there are conversations under way with many not-for-profits, many other local partners who have an interest and a stake in supporting their health care workers and those members of their community with more sustainable housing options. We could certainly get back to you with more information, but we’d have to consult further with our colleagues at Build Nova Scotia.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: I know Mr. Bureaux is probably anxious to answer this as well because I’m curious on the NSCC campus builds. Those were one of my most favourite announcements that I’ve been involved with, having children, as I mentioned to you, who have gone through the system. The big part of that is that travelling is okay, but when you add the school commitments on top of that, it becomes somewhat of a barrier because they’re tired and they’re sitting in traffic when they could be using that resource. If they’d had the opportunity when single units or campuses weren’t necessarily available - are you seeing that that is another incentive that is helping individuals get in both the trades that we need to build - the housing for our practitioners who we’re attracting - but also more particularly on the health care? Are you seeing a trend that it’s helping individuals take the programming?
THE CHAIR: Mr. Bureaux.
DON BUREAUX: The answer is yes. The five residences that we’ve opened in the past couple of years - and, again, four more in the works - have absolutely been a game-changer for students in terms of their learning experience. When I have round tables with students, those who are living in residence, to your point, it just removes one more level of - I won’t use the word stress, but consciousness that they can then take that time and energy and focus on their coursework. At NSCC, we are becoming much more of an institution where people want to come, have that learning experience, and actually stay on campus. I would say that absolutely it’s been a significant advantage for those students.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: Just on a follow-up, too, to just say thank you for that initiative supported. Young individuals have a hard time, especially - I have three boys. Insurance on a car, having a reliable car to go the distance that’s always needing upkeep - it’s a more economical approach as well. I’m pleased to hear that there are five opened and four more in the works. I wasn’t quite aware there were actually five, so that’s good to hear.
I just want to roll into the role of health professional seat expansion overall. How much student-led engagement is there when you talk about building the capacity, building the needs, monitoring the wait-lists and what have you? Are you hearing students’ voices involved in some of these decision-makings? I think I could hear from both of you on that, if you will.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: I’m happy to start. The Department of Advanced Education has a number of student round tables - four different student round tables - where we’re meeting with them regularly about their needs as students and their interests as students. Some of that has been some of the programs that have been outlined here around accelerated programs. We have programs that are running evenings and weekends for young people or people who are in a particular profession - they want to upskill, but they need to continue to earn an income - so opportunities for things to be a bit more flexible.
Bridging programs, I think, have been highlighted, but because I wore the Seniors and Long-term Care hat for about four years, the work there to allow individuals to stack and make more money over time, and find that upgrading flexibility to allow them to continue to work - the CCA to LPN pathway, LPN to RN, RN prescribing programs that are new in the system - physician assistant programs. If we step back just a second, we have added 600 new health care education seats in this province in the last four years. That’s nursing. That’s physicians. That’s CCAs. That’s LPNs. That’s these transition programs - also the Doctorate of Psychology around children. We have had expansion in post-secondary that really was lagging, and the investment to move this along - student housing, the other piece on top of the NSCC residences that were identified.
We’ve also done residence investments at Cape Breton University, residence investments at the Gaelic College and continuing to kind of look for opportunities there. There’s a new sustainable housing fund that was announced a year ago - $45 million that requires a component that’s for student housing that’s affordable housing locked in for 20 years. That fund was opened a year ago. There are applications under review with specifically affordable housing for students as part of it.
If you look at that as a whole picture, we’ve had what supports families to go back to school. Very few people can afford to just step out of their workplace and go to school. Finding ways to provide more affordable child care and affordable housing, adapting ways that we educate people so that a pathway to education is not maybe what it was when you finished high school. You did a four-year degree, and whatever it was that you did after that. We have to be more creative and allow stacking for individuals to both make more money and advance in their career.
I think that an awful lot of the pilots that we’ve talked about - we’re trying pilots of accelerated classes. Do students want that? Are they prepared to do a four-year nursing degree in three? That’s an intense commitment to do. We can’t take that lightly. The need to evaluate - run those programs. We’ve got programs right now with NSCC for skilled trades where students in high school are actually starting to take some of their skilled trades credits at NSCC before they even leave high school. We’ve got to try those things, evaluate them, and see if they work. Are students successful?
All of that is adapting to what is a different way of educating people from 18 years old to 65 or 75 years old.
THE CHAIR: MLA Sheehy-Richard, I believe Mr. Bureaux wanted to make a comment.
DON BUREAUX: Thank you, Chair. I can’t overstress the importance of the voice of the learner and the voice of the student in how we design programs. At NSCC, our governance model includes students on our board of governors. They bring a lens to that important governance work. They also sit on our programs committee, and again, that lens is brought.
But that voice of the student is heard in other ways too - post-secondary, government. The third leg, of course, is industry. When students do their clinicals and do their work terms, they bring back with them their experience. That experience is often areas where improvements or changes can be made, and it’s incumbent upon us to work with our industry partners to create a career journey that is one that individuals want to pursue. Flexibility in learning, and also flexibility in career paths, and work schedules are also a very important part - again, shaped by the voice of the students.
THE CHAIR: MLA Sheehy-Richard with two minutes and 25 seconds.
MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: I think what I like the best about being a second-term MLA is actually remembering back to first term when some of these initiatives started. I mean, I have a 20-year RN who worked at my community hospital who is now the new full-time nurse practitioner at one of the practices that lost a family doctor. There are two nurse practitioners running the clinic now, supported by the Nova Scotia Health Authority.
Another really warming story is - and she’ll be proud of me for saying it, because she was so proud of herself - worked in the cafeteria at our Hants Community Hospital for, I think, 20 years. Her children are my children’s age. She has always wanted to be a CCA. She has always wanted to, but she was financially committed. The opportunity for her to have the tuition paid was the most incredible thing. I’m proud to say that both in those stories have graduated and are doing well. I think you’ll see her move up to a licensed practical nurse or the next one.
I just want to ask a question that might be silly of me, but I’m curious about when you have a family practice nurse, that model. Is that an RN or is that another bridge?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick with 50 seconds.
TRACEY BARBRICK: Yes. All of us could chime in on this one, I’m sure. Yes, the next level beyond RN is a nurse practitioner. More and more are part of collaborative practices. I’m in the wrong swim lane here, but certainly my family doctor was a solo physician - for the last 25 years he’s been my doctor. He now works in a practice with two other physicians, a dietician, a social worker, and a nurse practitioner. He’s been a practising family physician for 30 years and now, when you visit that centre compared to his old solo practice, he’s referring within that family of professionals to support his practice so he can carry a larger panel and support the patient more holistically. All of those iterations, the nurse practitioners . . .
THE CHAIR: Order. We will now move on to our second round of questioning. It’ll be six minutes for each of the opposition caucuses and then 12 minutes for the government. We’ll move on to MLA Gallagher.
KRISTA GALLAGHER: Thank you, Chair. It’s always so shocking when he says “Order,” isn’t it? It always really throws you off.
ADM Barro and Ms. DeCoste, you spoke earlier about the ladder - the career ladder - and the LPNs going on to become RNs. I think that’s really great, but we may have missed a rung on that career ladder and that’s midwifery. I never pass down an opportunity to talk about midwives because they were very important in my life. They gave excellent prenatal and fourth trimester care. I was one of the lucky ones who got one. Since 2021, we’ve only increased midwives from 16 to 19 in our province. Unfortunately, last year our wait-list for midwife care was at 264.
I’m curious what the department is doing to retain, train, incentivize midwives to provide care to Nova Scotians who are looking to access during a pregnancy.
THE CHAIR: Ms. DeCoste.
KATHLEEN DECOSTE: We certainly do want to acknowledge the important work that midwives do in the province, and across the world really, in supporting women during vulnerable times. I think one of the things that we can certainly say about midwifery - one of the things we want to make sure that we do with any health profession - is really make sure that we have the appropriate legislative framework that will allow any profession, including midwives, to bring that profession to its most modern state. To be able to really expand scopes of practice, for example, to bring Nova Scotia up to par with national standards and with some of the other work in other provinces. We’re always looking to see what’s happening around us.
We’re happy to say that in 2026, we’ll be migrating the current Midwifery Act to the Regulated Health Professions Act - a new legislative framework that all of our regulated health professions in the province are going to be covered under with perhaps a few exceptions. That will actually give us the framework to really start to modernize the scope of midwifery with partners in the industry. That will allow us to really start to have some of these conversations because we know, of course, it’s not just the legislation. It’s the hard work after that context is set with partners to understand the full suite of opportunities in that space: scope of practice, which may mean changes to education; training; and of course, as you’ve alluded to, ultimately understanding what the service need is in our communities.
We certainly hear from our communities about the opportunities that are present for more midwifery services, so we’ll be looking to better understand that with our partners at the Nova Scotia Health Authority, at the IWK Health Centre, and others to really start to map that out. That legislative change will start to lay the groundwork for us to do more in that space.
[2:30 p.m.]
THE CHAIR: MLA Gallagher, ADM Barro would like to comment. ADM Barro.
KIM BARRO: One of the advantages of the legislative framework for midwifery is they’re joining the Nova Scotia College of Nursing. They’re going to be part of that broader nursing, which I think will help us accelerate how we understand and utilize midwives better in Nova Scotia.
KRISTA GALLAGHER: It’s almost like you knew I was going to ask that question because now I have some more questions. Do you know how many midwives Nova Scotia would need to eliminate that wait-list?
KATHLEEN DECOSTE: We’re in the process of getting a grip on that situation so that when we move into the legislative work, we can really understand what our current state is and where we need to go. We really want to make sure that we’re planning appropriately for the role of the midwife in our health system. We have many other health professions, of course, that are working in the domain. We want to make sure that we’re using them to the optimal scope, as we are with physicians, nurses, nurse practitioners, et cetera. There’s a lot of planning work to come. Unfortunately, I’m not able to give that level of detail right now.
KRISTA GALLAGHER: There are 264 people on that wait-list, so there’s definitely a need and an excitement about midwifery. I look forward to hearing more.
In 2022 - well, no. Let’s back up by a little bit. I’m not sure if everyone knows that the closest place that someone could be trained for midwifery in Atlantic Canada is actually Quebec. In 2022, Newfoundland and Labrador recognized that people were leaving their province to go get trained to be a midwife, so they initiated a study to determine where in Atlantic Canada a midwifery education program would work. In May of this year, the CBC published a story suggesting that Mount Saint Vincent University or Cape Breton University could host a midwifery training program. I’m curious if the Department of Advanced Education is working on this opportunity with these schools.
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick, 20 seconds.
TRACEY BARBRICK: We and the Department of Health and Wellness and the Office of Healthcare Professionals Recruitment work very closely on the practice models in Nova Scotia and what that leads to in terms of need for post-secondary. What our post-secondary institutions have proven to us over the last few years is that they’re in the game for what we need. For midwifery . . .
THE CHAIR: Order. (Laughs) I tried to do that softer that time. (Laughter)
AN HON. MEMBER: I feel like a schoolteacher.
THE CHAIR: MLA Mombourquette.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I know I only have a few minutes of time to ask questions, but I am going to take this moment to recognize Mr. Bureaux who, after 15 years at the helm of NSCC, is moving on to new adventures. I can say on a personal level that I’ve worked with Mr. Bureaux as an employee way back when. There was a lot of excitement the day we broke ground on the community college in Sydney - a lot of excitement around the conversations about expanding child care and other programs and the trades around the province in my various roles here.
Through all the discussions - and you hear it whether I was on this side or that side - you always reference the student voice. The student voice matters so much in the conversation because ultimately, we all want to do the very best for the students who are studying. Not only can they enhance their educational journey but support their families. On behalf of all of us, I do want to recognize you for your leadership, your friendship, and we wish you all the very best in what’s next. To you, Mr. Bureaux.
DON BUREAUX: Thank you for saying that.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: So, is there a residence coming to Sydney? (Laughter) That’s my question.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Bureaux.
DON BUREAUX: Our next four that we have in the works. Sydney is not on that list but never say never. That would be something that perhaps the next president can work with our partners on to secure.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: My next question I’m going to ask is around the Practical Nursing program. Is there a wait-list right now?
THE CHAIR: Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: I was going to introduce the fact that Nova Scotia Community College is our only provider of LPN programs across the province. We have added a version of 300 seats over the last few years. We have been working with NSCC around that wait-list and targeting expansion based on where those wait-lists sit.
I will turn it to my colleague at NSCC who can give a good snapshot of current state.
THE CHAIR: Ms. Fisher.
CONNIE FISHER: Currently, we are wait-listed for the fall of 2026 at all of our campuses - all 10 sites. This is a very fluid wait-list. As applications are processed as individuals complete requirements for the program, there’s a lot of movement of that wait-list. We currently have a wait-list of 485 students, but we are in the process. Regularly, our admissions team works through each campus location to assess the number of applications that are in process. While their active offer is out, new applications are then placed on the wait-list. It’s not necessarily a realistic picture of how many individuals are beyond the capacity that we currently have.
We’re not completely full in the sections. It’s a complexity of having folks on a wait-list, but the section is actually not completely full to capacity. It’s a process that our admissions team works through as they’re juggling the numerous applications that they get for practical nursing.
TRACEY BARBRICK: Can I just add, too, recognition. In 2023, we had 145 LPN seats. We now have 445. In three years, we have added 300 LPN seats across this province. It’s pretty incredible. I know one of the things that has to happen is it’s not just a magic switch to add seating capacity. That means staffing up for NSCC. It means physical space. It means lab space. There are a whole bunch of things that go along with the decision to add seats. Among all of the expansion, we’ve had lots of expansion in RN, but LPN seats are the most impressive growth to meet that need. We’ll continue to evaluate over that time to see what NSCC has capacity for and where we start to level out. Eventually, we will start to level out.
THE CHAIR: MLA Mombourquette, 50 seconds.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I won’t ask a question because I know I won’t get an answer. I’ll just reiterate: One of the biggest things we hear, regardless of whether it’s this program or not, wait-lists are a big concern of course. I know the department, the school, and the college are working through it. I think the biggest thing is expanding across the province, giving those families the ability to not have to travel. We’re talking health care today. There’s a vast array of programs where whether it’s in human services, the trades, or wherever, I hear that the most. These families want to attend the school. They have the credentials to attend the school, but the travelling can be a barrier. I know you can’t put every program everywhere but, for example, particularly around this area, the more flexibility the better.
THE CHAIR: Order. That concludes the Opposition round of questioning. We’ll move on to the governing caucus and MLA Fadare.
ADEGOKE FADARE: Thank you, everyone. First of all, let me echo my colleagues to say a big congratulations. Thank you for the incredible work you’ve done the last 15 years. I was going to say that, but I guess he beat me to it.
Obviously, I think what we heard today is - regardless of the Opposition or government - I think this is impressive. We definitely are what I would refer to as a nimble, agile team around this table while working around this health care whether as practitioners, as partners, or as government. I think it’s something we need to really be proud of - this year, the incredible numbers, the growth that has taken place. I know there are people who might feel otherwise, but I think that it’s always very good to celebrate in the ways you see progress. I say that is always very good.
I know that we’ve talked today about - and I know that you have a lot of interactions with doctors and some of those big concerns and all that. We’ve talked about different initiatives. We’ve talked about the career ladder, we’ve talked about flexible programming, we’ve talked about different incentives. I’m just curious: What do we think has been the most effective in retention of health care professionals here in Nova Scotia? I know recruitment is good, it’s great.
I remember over the weekend, I was in a garden with a couple of doctor friends. We were trying to (inaudible) a few months back, and we were talking about a couple of new doctors coming in from the U.K. soon. I was really excited about that. They were talking about how great our recruitment has been. I’m just wondering: What has been the most effective of all the initiatives we have in retaining these health care professionals within Nova Scotia? I’d love to hear from either the ADM or . . .
THE CHAIR: Ms. DeCoste.
KATHLEEN DECOSTE: I can get us started, and perhaps my colleagues will weigh in further. That’s a great question. There’s been so much effort and investment in keeping our health care professionals here. We had some good discussion earlier about the fact that one indicator of keeping people here in the province is that they’re from Nova Scotia or from the region already. We’re seeing really strong retention rates in a number of our health education programs, including in family medicine and in specialties at Dalhousie University in terms of the medical profession. We see that there’s a huge indicator of someone who is from a community wanting to stay in that community and having family and friends surrounding them.
Certainly, as you alluded to, we’re doing a lot in the international recruitment space as well. One of the things that we’ve seen work well - a few things: return-of-service agreements that we’ve put in place where we’ve provided additional supports to physicians, for example, coming internationally, where they’ve had an accelerated pathway to licensure, whether through the Physician Assessment Centre of Excellence or through other pathways where our College of Physicians and Surgeons of Nova Scotia has designated different pathways where they have said that the practice in a country like the U.K. or the U.S. is more or less equivalent to a practising physician here. That’s made the process faster.
We’ve provided some incentives like relocation supports or other incentives, as my colleague mentioned, to practice in rural communities. We’ve often tied a return-of-service agreement to that. That really helps the person land in the community where the system needs the most, but then it’s through partnership with community at the local level - whether that’s through consulate offices or other diaspora communities, or through funding. One of the members referenced on-the-ground, local initiatives to really figure out what’s best and most effective in those communities to help wrap around those folks and their families once they get here.
I would say that those kinds of things at the local level have probably had a substantial impact, because we know it’s that day-to-day community experience that is really making a place feel like home. That’s probably our most successful investment so far. Return-of-service agreements are one instrument that help us get the person here into the place we need, but it’s really our partnerships with local community and those wraparound supports that help them stay. My colleagues may have something to add.
THE CHAIR: We’ll move that on to ADM Barro.
KIM BARRO: We do, and MLA Boudreau mentioned some. We have a community fund that actually helps support community groups to provide supports to ensure that we have things for retention. We have invested in that fund, and we’ve had great proposals from communities, and that is really helping with retention. It’s a combination of things, but we’ve looked at it from many angles. That supporting community organizations has been very important.
ADEGOKE FADARE: I agree with you, because I’m very aware about that. Over the weekend, like I was alluding to earlier, I was with a couple of doctors, and one of them said something that I think for me was profound. In 2019, he was planning to leave Nova Scotia to one of those bigger cities, but he stayed. He was talking about the fact that the new agreement was signed. For the very first time, I heard a doctor talk about being satisfied with their pay. He was talking about how Nova Scotia was one of the very lowest at some point in time. That’s no longer the case. For him in particular, his wife is a pharmacist who originally couldn’t work when they were here, but now she is able to practise because of some of those initiatives.
These are real people, real stories - real lives and all of that. I really think this conversation is really exciting for me, because I see these people in communities. I meet these people. I have this kind of conversation.
[2:45 p.m.]
My question - probably the last. I’m not sure how many seconds I have left. We talked about the various programs we’ve had and how engagement has been. I wanted to ask, probably to NSCC - regarding the people who are coming to these programs, are they more mature students? I’m trying to find out who exactly is accessing those programs. I’m curious. Are they people who are already working within the health care system? Are they rural learners? Are they people who are closer to home? Do you have such statistics or data you can share with the committee today?
THE CHAIR: Mr. Bureaux.
DON BUREAUX: Today I’d have to report anecdotally. I can see, member, if we can get some data to back it up.
I will say, though, that this program and these incentives absolutely increase the diversity of the programs. What we’re seeing, as was mentioned earlier, is that people who have faced traditional barriers are now having those barriers removed. In many cases, they are older, if you will, learners than the typical quote-unquote post-secondary student. The average age of an NSCC student is 26 years old. We’re getting a larger share of the high school graduation market, so in order to draw that number to 26, we also therefore must be getting more - again, quote-unquote - much younger than me, but more mature, if you will, students in their 20s, 30s, and beyond.
What’s happening is that as the economy continues to adjust, impacts with AI that I think are very positive - it’s changing the nature of the occupations that exist. Now, with these opportunities, a person can leave one occupation and be retrained and pursue a different career, so more diversity in age and ethnic background and geography is something that we’re seeing with these programs.
THE CHAIR: MLA Fadare with three minutes and 20 seconds.
ADEGOKE FADARE: Oh, it’s three minutes. Okay, that’s good. I wasn’t sure how many seconds I still had. That’s really good.
I think what we’re hearing today is that if we remove traditional barriers and if we offer the incentives that we’re offering - remove barriers from housing, we create opportunity for access for people to be closer to attend - we’re going to see diversity and we’re going to see more mature people. One of the things about when you bring in a health care professional, especially a physician, you’re not just bringing a person. What I’m hearing is the holistic support that they seem to get. The fact that they’re coming with their wife, they’re coming with their spouse or significant other, they’re coming with their children. That means there are a lot of investments that need to go into all of that. I think it’s pretty exciting.
i For me, I’m really excited about this. I think that everybody on this side of the House is really very proud.
Let me look for my last question. We’ve heard about free tuition programs. We’ve raised concern about children might not be engaged. The question I want to ask is, have you noticed any shift in who is applying for this program? Sorry, I asked that earlier. Sorry. Give me a second. (Interruption)
THE CHAIR: MLA Boudreau.
TREVOR BOUDREAU: I know I only have a short time and I probably won’t get to a question, so you guys can relax. I think when we talk about incentives and we talk about retention - my wife and I were both health care providers in Ontario. We moved back. I moved to start my own practice, but my wife walked into the community we were looking at, walked into three pharmacies, and was offered three jobs. It was in such high demand 15 years ago when we moved back.
What we’ve done, not only in the public sector - because my wife and I both work in the private sector - we’ve also developed an opportunity for us to work to our full scopes of practice. If you think about a pharmacist and what they can do in Nova Scotia right now, there are no better qualified - and there’s nowhere else in this country can you do what they do in Nova Scotia. We’re letting them do to their full scope.
One of the other things - I’m a chiropractor. Chiropractors and physiotherapists, we have the scope to order X-rays. We never could in Nova Scotia, but guess what? Now physiotherapists and chiropractors can order X-rays, which means we’re not burdening, sending back to a physician to have that, to wait three weeks to go get an X-ray. We can do that now because that’s part of our scope. If you talk about incentives, giving us the opportunity to do what we were trained to do, that’s what’s going to keep people here. If they can’t do that, they’re going to go somewhere else. How much time do I have left? Thank you for the opportunity to say a few words.
THE CHAIR: A seasoned pro right there. Very good. What a wonderful conversation this afternoon. Thank you so much for being with us.
We will give our guests an opportunity to give some closing remarks. We’ll begin with Deputy Minister Barbrick.
TRACEY BARBRICK: Thank you for the conversation today. I would frame recruitment and retention as an ecosystem. We need to educate what we need in all the ways that can be flexible for students. We need to recruit locally, domestically, internationally in lots of different ways, and we need to retain through wages, safety, laddering, and all of those things.
A little story because I’m a proud mom: My daughter graduated in the spring as a radiation technologist. She started working for the Nova Scotia Health Authority back in the spring. She was a student on a work placement for her final two years, which is what hooked her. It was easy for her to get licensed when she finished her education. She got a return-of-service contract, and now what will keep this smart 22-year-old in Nova Scotia is the chance to ladder and change her career over time. That’s what we’re going for - the whole ecosystem for every single person that we need in health care.
THE CHAIR: ADM Barro.
KIM BARRO: It was a pleasure to come talk to you about all the different things that we’re doing. We do feel that we have developed a well-rounded strategy. One thing we didn’t get to mention is that the backbone of all of this is health workforce planning. We’ve done a ton of work to try to understand what our need is through the changing demographics in our communities, our age, the health status, et cetera, and then build programs and new, novel approaches to make sure. Our goal is to have sustained health care professionals for Nova Scotians today and in the future.
With the education seats, that’s more of a long-term approach to things, but we’re doing several things right now to try to do things. The scope of practice has been huge. I agree, MLA Boudreau, that’s one of the major things that we’ve done in Nova Scotia. Unlike a lot of provinces in Canada, people can come here and work to their scope of practice. We’ve introduced new practitioners, like the medical responders and physician assistants. Even the expansion of the scope of the NP enables less pressure on physicians. We can have a much more well-rounded team.
We do workforce planning. We’re trying our best to do a well-rounded, robust - and I think we’re working very well as a system with our government partners and our community colleges, et cetera, to do what we need to do to make sure that Nova Scotians get the health care they deserve. It’s not perfect, but I feel we’re doing the best we can.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Bureaux.
DON BUREAUX: I have very articulate closing remarks here prepared for me, but I’m not going to read it, because this is probably my last time at this table in this current role. I want to do a couple of things in the minute or two that I have. First is express my appreciation for coming here today in the interest of our elected officials and your important work. Thank you.
One of the most important themes that I heard today is that it’s fine to train or to recruit, but we have to retain our health care professionals in this province. One of the ways that we retain health professionals and other professionals is having a prosperous province economically and a prosperous province socially. I’m very bullish on what’s going to be happening in this province.
The increased military spending, the focus on energy, the amazing workforce that we have in our post-secondary institutions - I think Nova Scotia is set up to be a destination of choice for health care workers and a destination to stay in Nova Scotia. I’m very excited about the work that’s ahead of us.
I do also want to thank my colleagues who are at the table today for their hard work, their “let’s get it done” attitude, and their openness to creativity, innovation, and collaboration. Thank you.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Bureaux. One more time, thank you for all you’ve done. In my few years as Chair on this committee, you’ve probably been the person who’s appeared more than anybody. It’s been a privilege having you at our table, and thank you, again, to all of our guests today.
We’re going to take a two-minute recess to allow our guests to leave, and then we’ll have to come back for a bit of committee business quickly. Thank you once again. (Applause) We stand in recess.
[2:56 p.m. The committee recessed.]
[2:57 p.m. The committee reconvened.]
THE CHAIR: All right, if I could call our committee members back to the table, we have just a bit of committee business. It was a deferred NDP motion from our last meeting. I’d like to ask MLA Wozney to please repeat the motion or read the motion again for the record so we can all have that fresh.
PAUL WOZNEY: Whereas Nova Scotia has some of the highest child care fees in the country with families paying more than $20 a day; and
Whereas the responsible minister has admitted that families will not see their child care costs drop to $10 a day by the spring as was previously announced; and
Whereas by not lowering fees to $10 a day, families will spend thousands of dollars more on child care each year than parents in other provinces;
Therefore, I move that the Standing Committee on Human Resources affirm its support for the delivery of on-average $10-a-day child care for Nova Scotian parents by April 2026 and request a clear plan outlining the steps that will be taken to meet our target of $10-a-day child care for all parents and the creation of over 9,500 child care spaces.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, MLA Wozney. Any discussion about the motion? MLA Gallagher.
KRISTA GALLAGHER: I just want to say that I’m a mother of a child who recently just aged out of a daycare setting, so I’m very familiar that Nova Scotia has some of the highest child care fees in the country. Families are paying more in Nova Scotia than they do in Charlottetown or in St. John’s. In this time of families’ bills rising and going higher and higher, some folks have to make hard decisions to make ends meet. I think the government should be making sure they’re doing everything they can to make sure parents can afford the care that their children need.
THE CHAIR: MLA Mombourquette.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I call the question.
THE CHAIR: There is a motion on the table.
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is defeated.
Any other? No. Without any other committee business, our next meeting will be in January and that will be our last topic for this round of agenda. I will ask all of our caucuses - February 3rd will be agenda setting - to please have your topics submitted to the clerk by January 20th, please. That way we have everything ready for our agenda-setting meeting on February 3rd.
With that, we stand adjourned. Thank you and Merry Christmas.
[The committee adjourned at 3:00 p.m.]
