The Nova Scotia Legislature

The House resumed on:
September 21, 2017.

Hansard -- Fri., Apr. 9, 1999

First Session

FRIDAY, APRIL 9, 1999

TABLE OF CONTENTS PAGE
PRESENTING AND READING PETITIONS:
Educ. - Pictou Co.: School Closures - Oppose, Ms. Helen MacDonald 5623
STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS:
Swissair Flight 111: Memorial Sites - Approved, The Premier 5624
GOVERNMENT NOTICES OF MOTION:
Res. 2634, Agric. - 4-H Prog.: Daisy Ward (Harmony-Nicholsville
[Kings Co.]) - Commitment Recognize, Hon. E. Lorraine 5627
Vote - Affirmative 5628
NOTICES OF MOTION:
Res. 2635, Econ. Dev. & Tourism - Mac Timber: Audit - Announce
(Premier [Pictou-09/04/99]), Mr. R. Chisholm 5628
Res. 2636, Robert D. Lindsay (Hants West MLA [1970-78]),
Death of - Condolences Extend, Hon. R Harrison 5629
Vote - Affirmative 5629
Res. 2637, Sysco: Monies Addtl. (1999) - Reveal, Dr. J. Hamm 5630
Res. 2638, Wally & Regis Day (C.B. The Lakes): Wedding Anniv. 70th -
Congrats., Ms. Helen MacDonald 5630
Vote - Affirmative 5631
Res. 2639, Culture - Dan Munroe (Pictou Co. Artist): Achievements -
Congrats., Dr. J. Hamm 5631
Vote - Affirmative 5631
Res. 2640, Justice - Wonderland Trailer Court Neighbourhood Watch:
Safer Commun. Initiative - Congrats., Ms. Y. Atwell 5632
Vote - Affirmative 5632
Res. 2641, Health - Liver Foundation (Can. [Hfx.]): Efforts - Applaud,
Mr. G. Moody 5632
Vote - Affirmative 5633
Res. 2642, Gov't. [N.S.] - Public Commissions: Appointments -
Standards Apply, Mr. F. Corbett 5633
Res. 2643, Leader of Opposition - Remarks ("Jackboots" [08/04/99]):
Veterans Assocs. - Apologize, Mr. P. MacEwan 5634
Res. 2644, Educ. - School Boards: Y2K - Readiness Ensure, Mr. E. Fage 5634
Res. 2645, Health - Medical Practice (Rural): Commitment - Lead,
Mr. John Deveau 5635
Res. 2646, Justice - Criminals: Habitual - Guidelines Review,
Mr. M. Scott 5635
Res. 2647, Transport. & Pub. Wks. - Hwy. System (Can.): Toll Free -
Support, Mr. W. Estabrooks 5636
Res. 2648, Commun. Serv. - Foster Families: Compensation Appropriate -
Provide, Mr. J. Muir 5637
Res. 2649, Econ. Dev. & Tourism - Trenton Works: Success -
Cooperation Applaud, Mr. H. Epstein 5638
Res. 2650, Nat. Res. - Forest Industry: Sustainability -
Woodlot Owners Recognize, Mr. J. DeWolfe 5638
Vote - Affirmative 5639
Res. 2651, Fish. - Seniors: Licences Free - Urge, Mr. J. Pye 5639
Res. 2652, Housing & Mun. Affs. - Home Construction:
Cdn. Portland Cement Assoc. - Success With, Mr. G. Balser 5640
Res. 2653, Educ. - West Pictou HS: Honduras Humanitarian Efforts -
Congrats., Mr. C. Parker 5640
Vote - Affirmative 5641
Res. 2654, Sports - Hockey (Air Can. Atl. Midget Triple "A"):
C.B. Jeans Experts - Champs. Congrats., Ms. Helen MacDonald 5641
Vote - Affirmative 5642
Res. 2655, Econ. Dev. & Tourism - World's Highest Tides (Hants East):
Charlie McCulloch (Noel) - Efforts Congrats., Mr. John MacDonell 5642
Vote - Affirmative 5642
Res. 2656, Justice - Criminals: Parole Quota System - Investigate,
Mr. J. DeWolfe 5643
Res. 2657, Econ. Dev. & Tourism - Businesses (Large & Small):
Representation (Premier) - Recognize, Mr. P. Delefes 5643
Res. 2658, Justice - Youth Alternative Soc.: Work - Commend,
Mr. M. Baker 5644
Vote - Affirmative 5644
Res. 2659, Culture - Barra MacNeils: Success Internat. - Congrats.,
Mr. F. Corbett 5645
Vote - Affirmative 5645
Res. 2660, Justice - RCMP: Commercial Crime Cases Backlog -
Resources Review, Mr. M. Scott 5645
Res. 2661, Sackville-Musquodoboit Valley-Eastern Shore -
Electoral Dist. (Can.): New Name - Recognize, Mr. B. Taylor 5646
Vote - Affirmative 5646
Res. 2662, Culture - Razzmatazz for Kids: Award (Parents' Choice) -
Congrats., Ms. E. O'Connell 5647
Vote - Affirmative 5647
Res. 2663, Daily News: Anniv. 25th - Congrats., Mr. G. Balser 5647
Vote - Affirmative 5648
Res. 2664, Heritage Credit Union: Anniv. 60th - Congrats.,
Ms. E. O'Connell 5648
Vote - Affirmative 5649
Res. 2665, Lt. Gov. (N.S.) Rescue Certs. - Jordan Hawley &
William Gillies [Port Hood]: Heroism - Congrats., Mr. M. Baker 5649
Vote - Affirmative 5650
Res. 2666, Spaniel Field Trials (Natl.): Champ. "Fury" (Dr. D. McCurdy
[Hfx.-Owner] & Mr. J. Mitchell [Brookside-Trainer]) - Congrats.,
Mr. W. Estabrooks 5650
Vote - Affirmative 5651
HOUSE RESOLVED INTO CWH ON BILLS AT 10:50 A.M. 5651
HOUSE RECONVENED AT 1:51 P.M. 5651
CWH REPORTS 5651
STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS:
Health - Long-Term Care Workers: Mediation - Breakthrough,
Hon. J. Smith 5652
ADJOURNMENT, House rose to meet again on Mon., Apr. 12th at 6:00 p.m. 5653

[Page 5623]

HALIFAX, FRIDAY, APRIL 9, 1999

Fifty-seventh General Assembly

First Session

10:00 A.M.

SPEAKER

Hon. Ronald Russell

DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mr. Donald Chard

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. We will commence with the daily routine.

PRESENTING AND READING PETITIONS

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Cape Breton The Lakes.

MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table a petition bearing signatures from residents of Pictou County concerning public-private partnering in the construction of new schools. The operative clause reads, "We, the undersigned, are opposed to the closure of our seven high schools in Pictou County, which are to be replaced by two 'Mega Schools'.". I have affixed my signature to the document.

MR. SPEAKER: The petition is tabled.

PRESENTING REPORTS OF COMMITTEES

TABLING REPORTS, REGULATIONS AND OTHER PAPERS

5623

[Page 5624]

STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Premier.

HON. RUSSELL MACLELLAN, Q.C. (The Premier): Mr. Speaker, seven months ago the tragic crash of Swissair Flight 111 touched the lives of many people not only in our province, but around the world. The loss of 229 lives affected us all in some way and will never be forgotten, nor should it be. The victims' families still seek comfort and because of this, they will forever have a special relationship with our people and with our province.

In November, my government made a commitment to establish a special place of honour to honour the memories of those who died in the crash and to recognize the efforts of Nova Scotians who worked so hard in the rescue and the recovery. We created a memorial advisory committee to oversee the planning and design of a memorial and former Chief Justice Lorne Clarke agreed to chair the committee. Since then, Mr. Clarke has spoken with numerous people to hear their views on the location and the design of a memorial.

I am pleased to announce to the House today that we have received and approved Mr. Clarke's recommendation to have a memorial at three sites around St. Margaret's Bay. The three sites will signify the cooperative effort of the communities involved in the aftermath of the crash. One site will be in Bayswater on the western side of St. Margaret's Bay. Another will be about 500 metres west of Peggy's Cove at a place called the Whalesback. We also hope to designate the actual crash site on water as a special place.

Each land memorial will remain faithful to the integrity and natural beauty of the areas, a place to rest and reflect. Mr. Clarke's office is now taking steps to determine the memorials' designs. He informs me that a request for proposal on designs will be issued next week.

This memorial will represent the special relationship that the people of Nova Scotia have with the victims' families and with each other because of this terrible tragedy. We hope it will offer a place of comfort for all who were touched by the tragedy, a place to remember the effort of the people of our province and a place to reflect on the value of life.

Mr. Speaker, there is also another matter to address. There are human remains that are unidentifiable and we asked Mr. Clarke to determine where these should be interred. He tells me that he expects to make a decision on this matter within a few weeks.

We also know that many of the victims' families plan on returning to our province on the 1st Anniversary of the crash. Therefore, we feel it is only fitting to work toward having a memorial service on September 2nd. We are working with other agencies and planning, but the planning is still in the early stages.

[Page 5625]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, we have all been touched by this tragedy, but none of us have suffered as much as the families of the victims and we cannot erase their grief. But we can offer a place of comfort to everyone affected by this tragedy, a place to honour the lives of the 229 men, women and children who died so tragically off our coast, a place to remember the valiant and sustained efforts of our people in Nova Scotia, and a place to remember how truly precious life is. Thank you. (Applause)

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Opposition.

MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Premier for making this statement. I want to thank former Chief Justice Lorne Clarke for the work that he has done in helping this committee move to the point where this kind of an important recommendation has been made. I think it is a decision that reflects the sensitivity of the issue of the needs of people in those communities that are going to be the host sites for these memorials and certainly for the families of the people who died.

I want to also thank the people in the local areas, not only, of course, as we have all thanked them for their efforts at the time of the disaster, but since and subsequently in their help with the committee to make sure that all the information that was necessary was brought forward, that their sense of the impact of this event, this tragedy, was brought to the committee's attention and, therefore, enabled the committee to make a decision which I think is a good one.

I know that the member for Timberlea-Prospect and the member for Chester-St. Margaret's, two constituencies where these memorials will be placed, have been involved with their constituents in trying to make sure that this issue is dealt with in a way that is sensitive and responsible. I think perhaps Mr. Estabrooks would like to have something to say but, in conclusion, let me say that I appreciate the statement that has been made by the Premier. I appreciate the work done by the committee and by Chief Justice Lorne Clarke. I know that whatever it is that we do, it will not be enough to deal with the suffering, to deal with the tragedy, but we can only do as much as we can to help those people understand that we do have some appreciation and we do give them our sympathies and recognize that there needs to be a remembrance made, both physically and otherwise, of this terrible tragedy. Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Progressive Conservative Party.

DR. JOHN HAMM: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Premier for his remarks and the Leader of the Official Opposition for his remarks. The way in which Nova Scotians conducted themselves in the minutes and hours and days after the Swissair 111 tragedy has given us all reason to be proud to be Nova Scotians. I do congratulate the efforts of former Chief Justice Clarke in determining the three sites: a sea site, a Bayswater site and the Whalesback site and look forward with great anticipation as to what form the ultimate memorials will take.

[Page 5626]

The issue of the unidentifiable remains is one that is troublesome to families, but I think we can look back to the work of Dr. John Butts in minimizing the amount of material that will have to be handled in this way. The commitment of the local area residents and the fact that their community will be the ultimate site for the memorials is one that will continue to remind them of the tragedy, remind all Nova Scotians of the tragedy, but as well I think to serve as a reminder of how strong that community proved to be in a time of tragedy.

I also commend the arrangements that are being anticipated for the September 2nd memorial and how we will, as a province, respond to the families on that particular day.

I would also like to remind the Premier that very shortly we will have in our province refugees from the terrible tragedy that is occurring in the Kosovo section of Yugoslavia and would remind the Premier that he would be fulfilling an important responsibility if as well as indicating to the federal government how the province will participate in their activities as these refugees start to live among us over the next number of months, but also to remind him there are a significant number of Nova Scotians who are concerned about those refugees who will not reach our shores and how it is they can, as Nova Scotians, help what is going on in Macedonia and in Albania. I would hope that the Premier will come forward with some kind of an organized way in which Nova Scotians can effectively and in with confidence participate in helping all of these people, these very unfortunate people whose tragedy is unfolding before us in the media on a daily basis.

[10:15 a.m.]

I would encourage the Premier. Nova Scotians and the government has responded in a very positive way to the Swissair tragedy, so I would hope that in our small way that we can react in an equally positive way to what is going on in the unfortunate circumstances as we anticipate the refugees coming to our province, but as well realizing that so many more will have to remain in that far-off land and will need considerable help. Nova Scotians want to be part of that help. Thank you. (Applause)

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.

MR. WILLIAM ESTABROOKS: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Premier for his initiative and the fact that Judge Clarke, in a very tasteful way, has been in our communities meeting and listening to the people who have come forward on numerous occasions to express their opinions on the frightful events that happened that September night.

Recently, Wednesday of this week, I had the opportunity to be at Brookside Junior High School and witness the performance of a group of staff members and students and community members who performed, for the first time in public, the Legacy of Swissair. Along with the slide show, the words and music presented by teacher, Sheila Lamplugh drew reference to some of the lasting strengths of our province.

[Page 5627]

Ms. Lamplugh, a native of Springhill, brought forward, in the words of that song which she composed, analogies to the strong coal mining tradition and the disasters that we have unfortunately faced, the Halifax Explosion and various other incidents, where of course the Nova Scotia true nature of giving comes forth. It was a moving event.

September 2nd, I am sure, will be in the lasting memories of young people in our community and young people throughout the province for a long time. I congratulate Judge Clarke on his insightful recommendations. I look forward, along with my friend from Chester-St. Margaret's and other elected officials, to working with him in the communities in preparation for September 2nd and I know that he will continue to listen to our communities' input. Thank you. (Applause)

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Premier, on an introduction.

THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I would like to make an introduction of a gentleman who I can say without any hesitation is certainly one of the most distinguished people we have in the Province of Nova Scotia. Those of us who have been fortunate enough to practice law need look no further for an example or a mentor than former Chief Justice Lorne Clarke. He has had a distinguished law career, a distinguished career on the bench, retiring as Chief Justice of this province after having served in an incredibly, extraordinarily successful fashion. It was certainly an honour for us in Nova Scotia to have him as our Chief Justice for so many years.

He has fortunately taken over the chairmanship of this committee, where we will be able to honour those who have died tragically in Flight 111 and to honour those Nova Scotians who have given so tirelessly and so unselfishly of their time and money and other assets to the benefit and the caring of the families of the victims.

I think this House is honoured today to have in your gallery, sir, former Chief Justice Lorne Clarke. (Applause)

GOVERNMENT NOTICES OF MOTION

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Agriculture.

RESOLUTION NO. 2634

HON. EDWARD LORRAINE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas 4-H, as one of the best youth development programs in the country, relies heavily on volunteers for its success; and

[Page 5628]

Whereas Daisy Ward, 4-H leader of the Harmony-Nicholsville 4-H Club in Kings County, is the longest serving current 4-H leader in Nova Scotia; and

Whereas Ms. Ward, through her leadership and support of our youth, has made a profound impact on the lives of 4-H members in Harmony-Nicholsville, Kings County and Nova Scotia;

Therefore be it resolved that this House recognize Ms. Ward's commitment and dedication to the 4-H members in Kings County and the importance of the provincial 4-H program and its volunteers in building future leaders in rural Nova Scotia.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

NOTICES OF MOTION

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Opposition.

RESOLUTION NO. 2635

MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Premier is visiting Pictou County today despite the frequent protests by the MLA for Pictou Centre of any visit to that area by non-Conservatives; and

Whereas Pictou County industries are among those that have suffered the most from this government's support for Mac Timber despite specific advance warnings of the owner's dubious intentions;

[Page 5629]

Therefore be it resolved that this House urge the Premier to do the right thing when he addresses the Pictou County Chamber of Commerce and announce a forensic audit of Mac Timber and the foolhardy government support it was given.

MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.

The honourable Minister of Justice.

RESOLUTION NO. 2636

HON. ROBERT HARRISON: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas on Tuesday, April 6th, Robert Dewar Lindsay passed away in the Veterans Memorial Building QE II Health Sciences Centre; and

Whereas Mr. Lindsay served in this House as a Liberal member for Hants West from 1970 to 1978; and

Whereas Mr. Lindsay was a licensed embalmer and funeral home director in Halifax, Bedford and Windsor, having worked in that profession for 50 years;

Therefore be it resolved that this House extend condolences to the Lindsay family on the passing of this devoted servant of the people of Nova Scotia.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver of notice and passage without debate.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

Incidentally, I will be attending the funeral this evening and I will take a copy of that resolution with me to present to the family.

The honourable Leader of the Progressive Conservative Party.

[Page 5630]

RESOLUTION NO. 2637

DR. JOHN HAMM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas despite public statements that Sysco would not receive any more public money, this Liberal Government has repeatedly broken its word and poured millions more into the troubled mill; and

Whereas the current $44 million loan guarantee runs out in less than one year; and

Whereas even Hoogovens has publicly stated Sysco needs money, time and luck in order to break even before the year's end;

Therefore be it resolved that this Liberal Government tell the House how much additional money the province will advance to Sysco this year when time and luck run out.

MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Cape Breton The Lakes.

RESOLUTION NO. 2638

MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas Wally and Regis Day were married in St. Joseph Church, Bras d'Or, April 23, 1929; and

Whereas Wally and Regis have 13 children, 44 grandchildren and 58 great-grandchildren; and

Whereas the Days have continued throughout their 70 years of marriage to be active in their community, their co-op store and their credit union;

Therefore be it resolved that this House extend congratulations to Wally and Regis Day on the celebration of their 70th Wedding Anniversary.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

[Page 5631]

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable Leader of the Progressive Conservative Party.

RESOLUTION NO. 2639

DR. JOHN HAMM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas well-known artist, Dan Munroe, recently received first honourable mention in the annual art cover competition held by the North Light Artist Book Club of Cincinnati, Ohio; and

Whereas the competition received more than 850 entries from the United States and Canada; and

Whereas Mr. Munroe is a founding member of the Pictou County Artists' Association and a member of the Canadian Graphics Art Guild, Visual Arts Nova Scotia and the National Association of Fine Arts;

Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House congratulate Mr. Munroe for his recent achievement and wish him continued success.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Preston.

[Page 5632]

RESOLUTION NO. 2640

MS. YVONNE ATWELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Wonderland Trailer Court Neighbourhood Watch in Lake Echo has been working to enhance and promote the safety of the community; and

Whereas this group has recently restructured to form a body of zone captains to maintain a safer environment, free from vandalism, misconduct, et cetera; and

Whereas this initiative has strengthened community ties and created an ongoing awareness to safety issues;

Therefore be it resolved that this House congratulate the efforts of this group for taking the initiative in building safer communities.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Kings West.

RESOLUTION NO. 2641

MR. GEORGE MOODY: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Halifax Chapter of the Canadian Liver Foundation will host its seventh interdenominational service, Celebration of Life service, on April 18th to recognize those involved in organ transplantation; and

Whereas the service is being held in recognition of the tremendous gifts provided by organ donors and offers a chance for recipients to personally say thank you; and

[Page 5633]

Whereas this service will also help create awareness for the pressing need for organ and tissue donation;

Therefore be it resolved that all members of this House recognize the hard work of the Canadian Liver Foundation and applaud the tremendous efforts being made to promote awareness on organ and tissue donation.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre.

RESOLUTION NO. 2642

MR. FRANK CORBETT: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the recent appointment to the Labour Relations Board of a loyal Liberal and friend of the Minister of Labour is another clear signal of the Liberals' self-serving nature; and

Whereas this appointment follows close on the heels of the appointment of another loyal Liberal and friend of the Minister of Justice as head of the Human Rights Commission; and

Whereas appointments to public commissions are a public trust;

Therefore be it resolved that this Liberal Government attempt to apply even the minimal standards of impartiality and representation in appointments to public commissions so that they reflect the communities they are meant to serve.

MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Cape Breton Nova.

[Page 5634]

RESOLUTION NO. 2643

MR. PAUL MACEWAN: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Leader of the Opposition stated yesterday in the House that the Liberals and the Progressive Conservatives should take off their jackboots; and

Whereas jackboots symbolize Nazism and Fascism; and

Whereas thousands of Canadians, many of them Nova Scotians, gave their lives in an effort to rid the world of Nazism and Fascism;

Therefore be it resolved that the socialist Leader should apologize in writing to Nova Scotians and more particularly to veterans' organizations for his boneheaded remarks.

MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Cumberland North.

RESOLUTION NO. 2644

MR. ERNEST FAGE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Progressive Conservative Party has called upon the government to step up its efforts concerning Y2K compliancy for school board administrations across Nova Scotia; and

Whereas the Minister of Education has said that major problems are not anticipated, even though students will be returning to class a few days later than usual after their Christmas break because of uncertainty surrounding Y2K compliancy; and

Whereas the most recent government report indicated Y2K compliancy for school board administration systems was only 60 per cent complete, with set-in-stone deadlines changing monthly;

Therefore be it resolved that the Minister of Education take immediate steps to ensure that there are no last minute surprises concerning student records and payroll information in school board systems across the province.

[Page 5635]

MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Yarmouth.

RESOLUTION NO. 2645

MR. JOHN DEVEAU: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas Dalhousie graduate, Dr. Michael Perley today confirmed that the Memorial and Sherbrooke Medical Schools continue to better introduce medical students to rural practice; and

Whereas this improved preparation applies to rural specialists as well as to family practitioners; and

Whereas the welcome improvements in Dalhousie Medical School's rural programs are clearly not enough;

Therefore be it resolved that the Premier and the Health Minister should lead a new commitment to rural medical practice rather than simply defending the advances made so far.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear several Noes.

The notice is tabled.

[10:30 a.m.]

The honourable member for Cumberland South.

RESOLUTION NO. 2646

MR. MURRAY SCOTT: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas alternate sentencing options can and do work many times with convicted criminals across Nova Scotia; and

[Page 5636]

Whereas there is an exception to every rule, the most recent being an individual who was sentenced to four months of incarceration despite being convicted on 75 previous charges; and

Whereas the four month incarceration came after a smash and grab jewelry heist of $5,000 in Windsor with a pedestrian being nearly run over and the heist coming after the individual had appeared in court on the same day in Kentville on theft charges;

Therefore be it resolved that in light of the fact an RCMP request for an appeal for federal time was turned down by the Crown, Nova Scotia's Minister of Justice review guidelines for habitual criminals sentenced in Nova Scotia.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear several Noes.

The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.

RESOLUTION NO. 2647

MR. WILLIAM ESTABROOKS: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas P.E.I. Premier Pat Binns is calling on the federal government to help stop the planned toll highway between Fredericton and Moncton, New Brunswick; and

Whereas Premier Binns says the toll road will cost Islanders at least $200,000 in tolls that are passed on to the buying public; and

Whereas the equivalent cost to Nova Scotians would be nearly $2 million;

Therefore be it resolved that this House joins with the Government of Prince Edward Island in urging federal action to ensure an adequate national highway system that is free of tolls.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver.

[Page 5637]

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear a No.

The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Truro-Bible Hill.

RESOLUTION NO. 2648

MR. JAMES MUIR: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas last year there were more than 1,842 children in foster care in 605 approved foster homes in Nova Scotia; and

Whereas the Minister of Community Services has confirmed her awareness of the dedication of foster parents by saying, "opening your heart and home to a foster child takes an incredible amount of love and understanding"; and

Whereas in spite of her statement, government continues to fail foster families as well as those who are considering becoming foster parents by not providing adequate compensation;

Therefore be it resolved that the Minister of Community Services do more than pay lip service to Nova Scotia's foster families by providing appropriate compensation for their tremendous contribution to children and their families in Nova Scotia.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear several Noes.

The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.

[Page 5638]

RESOLUTION NO. 2649

MR. HOWARD EPSTEIN: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Premier is today touring the Trenton Works, birthplace of the Canadian steel industry which survived thanks to years of public support, public investment and a period of public ownership; and

Whereas the MLA for Pictou Centre has cited the successful privatization of Trenton Works, which was carried out with union cooperation, as a model for Sydney Steel; and

Whereas all Parties in this House supported the efforts to keep Trenton Works operating until it was privatized;

Therefore be it resolved that this House applaud Trenton Works as a vivid example of the success that can be achieved when government, labour and respected private managers cooperate in support of a keystone steel plant.

Mr. Speaker, I seek waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear a No.

The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Pictou East.

RESOLUTION NO. 2650

MR. JAMES DEWOLFE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas silviculture work will be the backbone to the long-term sustainability to Nova Scotia's forest industry; and

Whereas the present Liberal Government has slashed and burned silviculture funding to the ground since 1993; and

[Page 5639]

Whereas the Liberal Government is not being aggressive in proclaiming into law amendments to the Nova Scotia Forests Act introduced and passed in this Legislature last fall;

Therefore be it resolved that the Minister of Natural Resources recognize the role played by woodlot owners in Nova Scotia and begin working with them to ensure the sustainability of our forest industry.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

RESOLUTION NO. 2651

MR. JERRY PYE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas sport fishing provides exercise and enjoyment of nature for Nova Scotian seniors; and

Whereas encouraging seniors to get more exercise will improve their health and potentially reduce the health care costs; and

Whereas the government promised to allow seniors to enjoy this hobby without having to pay for ever-increasing costs of a sports fishing licence;

Therefore be it resolved that this House urge the government to keep its word and allow seniors to enjoy sports fishing free of any licensing charges.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

[Page 5640]

I hear a No.

The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Digby-Annapolis.

RESOLUTION NO. 2652

MR. GORDON BALSER: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas Cole Harbour has become the site of the first house in Canada showcasing insulated concrete forms in residential construction; and

Whereas the Canadian Portland Cement Association is aiming for 15 per cent of all new homes constructed in Nova Scotia in the next few years to be done with insulated concrete forms; and

Whereas using insulated concrete forms in new home construction is expected to generate long-term savings through a reduction of energy costs while providing greater comfort, superior soundproofing and design flexibility;

Therefore be it resolved that the members of this Legislature wish the Canadian Portland Cement Association every success as they work toward increasing sales in the latest model of home construction.

Mr. Speaker, I would seek waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear a No.

The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Pictou West.

RESOLUTION NO. 2653

MR. CHARLES PARKER: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

[Page 5641]

Whereas West Pictou District High School students and staff recently hosted a talent show and raised $1,000 for Honduras relief; and

Whereas one organizer described it as a win-win situation, with student talent being showcased, Honduras receiving badly needed school supplies and the local community being encouraged in the spirit of giving; and

Whereas a further public talent show was held last evening, Thursday, April 8th;

Therefore be it resolved that the students and staff of West Pictou District High School be congratulated for their humanitarian efforts in helping the students of Honduras.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Cape Breton The Lakes.

RESOLUTION NO. 2654

MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Cape Breton Jeans Experts Midget Triple 'A' Hockey Club demonstrated determination and commitment in reaching their goals; and

Whereas parents, coaches and these 16 and 17 year old players have worked together to reach the gold; and

Whereas over the Easter weekend, these young men and women won the Air Canada Atlantic Regional Championship, defeating the host team, Dartmouth Subways;

Therefore be it resolved that this Legislature convey congratulations to these Atlantic champions and wish them well when they play for the National Triple 'A' Championship in Prince Albert later this month.

[Page 5642]

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Hants East.

RESOLUTION NO. 2655

MR. JOHN MACDONELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the highest tides in the world had been measured by the Canadian Hydrographic Services in 1960 at Burntcoat Head in Hants East; and

Whereas this title has been contested by the community of Leaf Lake in northern Quebec; and

Whereas Charlie McCulloch of Noel took the initiative to reaffirm the claim of Hants East and Nova Scotia as the Home of the Highest Tides in the World, which stand at 53.6 feet;

Therefore be it resolved that this House congratulate Charlie McCulloch for his efforts which focused attention on this province generally and Hants East specifically.

Mr. Speaker, I request waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

[Page 5643]

The honourable member for Pictou East.

RESOLUTION NO. 2656

MR. JAMES DEWOLFE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas recent statistics show Canada's average daily prison population has declined 3.3 per cent; and

Whereas recent statistics show the number of adult criminals sentenced to parole, probation and statutory release has jumped 17 per cent; and

Whereas an insane new federal quota system involves parole officers being urged to ignore parole breaches such as alcohol use, resulting in a 50/50 quota split between convicts in prison and those on parole by the year 2000;

Therefore be it resolved that Nova Scotia's Minister of Justice investigate with his federal counterparts the potential impact such a quota system will have on the safety and well-being of Nova Scotians.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

I hear a No.

The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Halifax Citadel.

RESOLUTION NO. 2657

MR. PETER DELEFES: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Premier took it upon himself to write a letter to the Federal Competition Bureau in support of the Sobeys merger; and

Whereas by not consulting with those most affected, the Premier has abdicated his responsibility to businesses in the food service industry and to small family businesses; and

[Page 5644]

Whereas the Premier should always be sure he is fully informed before diving head-first into an issue;

Therefore be it resolved that the Premier should recognize his responsibility to respect all Nova Scotia businesses, both big and small.

MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Lunenburg.

RESOLUTION NO. 2658

MR. MICHAEL BAKER: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Youth Alternative Society works with young people between the ages of 12 years and 17 years in conflict with the law; and

Whereas the Youth Alternative Society provides an alternative to the court system for first-time offenders and supervises others doing community service work ordered by the courts; and

Whereas the Youth Alternative Society relies heavily on volunteers to offer their services as the demand continues to grow;

Therefore be it resolved that the House of Assembly commend the Youth Alternative Society for its work on behalf of Nova Scotians and encourages volunteers to come forward to give their time on behalf of our youth.

Mr. Speaker, I seek waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre.

[Page 5645]

RESOLUTION NO. 2659

MR. FRANK CORBETT: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Barra MacNeils sang the national anthem last night at the Air Canada Centre for the Raptors basketball game; and

Whereas later this month they will head to Texas where they will represent Nova Scotia at the International Public Television Convention; and

Whereas while in Texas the family will be playing in Austin, Houston and Dallas;

Therefore be it resolved that members of this House congratulate one of Cape Breton's most talented musical families on their growing success in the international music scene.

Mr. Speaker, I seek waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Cumberland South.

RESOLUTION NO. 2660

MR. MURRAY SCOTT: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas between January 1, 1998, and December 18, 1998, 287 new cases were added to the files of the RCMP's Commercial Crime Unit in Nova Scotia; and

Whereas an article in the January 3, 1999, edition of the Sunday Herald cited a need for four additional officers and a four to six month backload of cases facing Nova Scotia's RCMP Commercial Crime Unit; and

[Page 5646]

Whereas in a letter dated January 12, 1999, the Minister of Justice said he was unaware of any investigations being delayed due to a lack of resources;

Therefore be it resolved that Nova Scotia's Minister of Justice make an effort to be brought up to speed on issues negatively impacting Nova Scotia's justice system.

MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.

The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.

RESOLUTION NO. 2661

MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the old adage, what is in a name, can readily be described as the beautiful Musquodoboit Valley; and

Whereas earlier this spring the House of Commons unanimously passed MP Peter Stoffer's bill to rename our federal electoral district, Sackville-Musquodoboit Valley-Eastern Shore; and

Whereas with this latest name change, now all three levels of government have the Musquodoboit Valley inserted in their respective electoral districts;

Therefore be it resolved that all members in the Nova Scotia Legislature recognize and appreciate the new federal electoral district's new name.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver of notice.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.

[Page 5647]

RESOLUTION NO. 2662

MS. EILEEN O'CONNELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas the Halifax-based children's troubadours Razzmatazz for Kids has been recognized by the prestigious Parents' Choice consumer guide to children's media; and

Whereas the group's self-titled CD and cassette received a 1998 seal of approval from Parents' Choice; and

Whereas the seal represents a recommendation on the basis of production, entertainment and human values in a wholesome project that helps children enjoy developing physical, emotional, social or academic skills;

Therefore be it resolved that members of this House congratulate members of Razzmatazz for this honour and for their ongoing contribution to the wholesome entertainment of our children.

Mr. Speaker, I seek waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Digby-Annapolis.

RESOLUTION NO. 2663

MR. GORDON BALSER: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas since the days of Joseph Howe and the Novascotian, residents of this province have relied on daily newspapers to champion the cause of free speech; and

Whereas for the past 25 years, the Daily News has helped provide Nova Scotians with an alternative newspaper perspective to local, provincial, national and international news; and

[Page 5648]

Whereas the past quarter-century has been one of steady growth, development and improvement for the Daily News;

Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House of Assembly extend their congratulations and best wishes to the staff of the Daily News on this their Silver Anniversary.

Mr. Speaker, I would request waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Hants East.

MR. JOHN MACDONELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas MLAs have taken a considerable interest in posture; and

Whereas a short while ago, 32 Liberal and Tory MLAs in this House stood strong in support of fair benefits for all widows of workers killed on the job; and

Whereas on behalf of the 32, the Minister of Labour now says that that was only their standing position;

Therefore be it resolved that Nova Scotians deserve to know which Liberal-Conservative positions are standing, sitting or just plain lying down.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I am not too sure that that notice of motion is in order. I will have to check on it, because it is relative to a bill that is presently before the House.

The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.

RESOLUTION NO. 2664

MS. EILEEN O'CONNELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

[Page 5649]

Whereas the Heritage Credit Union will celebrate its 60th Anniversary on April 27, 1999; and

Whereas the Heritage Credit Union is a result of the amalgamation of the Dartmouth Community Credit Union and the Harbour City Credit Union; and

Whereas all of these credit unions have contributed to the economic development of their communities and provided a strong economic foundation for their members;

Therefore be it resolved that the Nova Scotia House of Assembly congratulate the Heritage Credit Union and its members on their accomplishments and send best wishes for the next 60 years.

Mr. Speaker, I seek waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Lunenburg.

RESOLUTION NO. 2665

MR. MICHAEL BAKER: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas two 12 year old heroes from Port Hood were recently honoured by the National Lifesaving Society; and

Whereas Jordan Hawley and William Gillies were presented with rescue certificates by Lieutenant Governor James Kinley for saving seven year old Heather MacDonald from drowning; and

Whereas the rescue certificates presented to both Jordan and William cited their resourcefulness and courage in coming to the aid of someone in distress;

[Page 5650]

Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House congratulate Jordan and William on their recent awards and applaud their heroic actions.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.

RESOLUTION NO. 2666

MR. WILLIAM ESTABROOKS: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption of the following resolution:

Whereas John Mitchell of Brookside has been working with English springer spaniels from his Flushing Wing Kennels for over 20 years; and

Whereas the spaniel Fury, owned by Halifax resident Dr. David McCurdy, was trained and handled by Mr. Mitchell at the National Spaniel Field Trials in Edmonton, Alberta; and

Whereas Fury captured first place at this competition by finishing ahead of American dogs which finished second, third and fourth;

Therefore be it resolved that this House offer its congratulations to John Mitchell, Dr. McCurdy and Fury for their championships.

Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver.

MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver.

Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

[Page 5651]

The motion is carried.

With reference to the notice of motion submitted by the honourable member for Hants East, I am going to rule it out of order because it does indeed relate to the present bill; however, with some very small changes it could be acceptable to be submitted at a later date. In present form, it is unacceptable.

The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. MANNING MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I move that you do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole House on Bills.

MR. SPEAKER: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

[10:50 a.m. The House resolved itself into a CWH on Bills with Deputy Speaker Mr. Donald Chard in the Chair.]

[1:51 p.m. CWH on Bills rose and the House reconvened. Mr. Speaker, Hon. Ronald Russell, resumed the Chair.]

MR. SPEAKER: The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole House on Bills reports:

THE CLERK: That the committee has met and has made some progress and begs leave to sit again.

MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. MANNING MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, would you please revert to the order of business, Statements by Ministers.

MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed?

It is agreed.

[Page 5652]

STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Health.

HON. JAMES SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to inform the House that there has been a breakthrough in the mediation between the Canadian Union of Public Employees and nursing homes. (Applause)

It is my understanding, Mr. Speaker, that issues that CUPE had identified as provincial in nature have been resolved. It is also my understanding that CUPE will be taking these proposals to its locals and members across this province. The provincial role, through the Departments of Health, Labour and Human Resources, was to assist the mediator, Milton Veniot, in working with CUPE.

I am pleased, Mr. Speaker, unlike the situation in a number of other provinces, this is yet another example of a settlement in the Nova Scotia public sector through the collective bargaining process.

I would like to pay tribute to our relationship with labour over the last month in Nova Scotia which has been very positive. I compliment the leadership of labour and also the support of those within our departments of government that have addressed the well-being of Nova Scotians in need of health care. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Applause)

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Halifax Needham.

MS. MAUREEN MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the minister. I think that this announcement will allow members of this House to leave here this afternoon with a little less worry than would have been the case given the seriousness of what it was that we were facing and, hopefully, people in this province will not be facing this now.

Members of the NDP caucus have been concerned and we have expressed and voiced our concerns here for the workers, for the families, for seniors and others in these homes in the past months and, certainly, in the past few days. I think it is important for us to say that certainly in this caucus we have nothing but respect for CUPE and its track record with respect to the representation it provides in public sector workplaces and particularly in nursing homes in terms of their concern, and their action for justice for workers and for residents is well established not only in this province but across the country.

As always, Mr. Speaker, we will wait for details and we would not want to pre-empt the fundamental, democratic right of the workers to review the details of this settlement and for their ratification in this situation. Thank you. (Applause)

[Page 5653]

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings West.

MR. GEORGE MOODY: Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the Minister of Health and the government and I want to congratulate CUPE. I think that this is a good start not only for the workers but I believe for the residents of our nursing homes that this is a tremendous announcement today. It takes a lot of worry off families, off many members who have been worried about what would happen if a province-wide strike occurred.

It was the PC caucus that said to the government, please get involved and go to the table. It was Thursday that the government got involved and out of that involvement by the government, we got an announcement today that they had reached an agreement. (Applause)

I want to say to the government, I am pleased it got involved. I would liked to have seen it a little bit earlier but, hopefully, now, the vote will be taken. It is the right of the workers to vote on the proposed contract. Hopefully that will go well. Mr. Speaker, if that goes well, I think it's a great day for all Nova Scotians because this was a strike that would have affected many lives in a very bad way.

Again, I want to congratulate the minister, the government, CUPE and all the workers and, hopefully, soon after we come back the first of the week it will be ratified and life will get on for those residents and for the workers. So, on behalf of our caucus, we say, thank you very much for getting something settled that was so important to many Nova Scotians. (Applause)

MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. MANNING MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, that completes the government's business for today. The House will meet again Monday from the hours of 6:00 p.m. until 10:00 p.m. Following the daily routine, we will again be calling Bill No. 90.

I move that the House do now rise to meet Monday evening at 6:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER: The motion is to adjourn. Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.

The motion is carried.

We stand adjourned until 6:00 p.m. on Monday.

[The House rose at 1:56 p.m.]