Assemblée Législative de la Nouvelle-Écosse

Les travaux de la Chambre ont repris le
21 septembre 2017
























HALIFAX, THURSDAY, JANUARY 12, 1995



Fifty-sixth General Assembly



Second Session



12:00 P.M.



SPEAKER



Hon. Paul MacEwan



DEPUTY SPEAKER



Mr. Gerald O’Malley






MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. We will commence this afternoon’s session at this time. We will
begin with the daily routine.



PRESENTING AND READING PETITIONS



PRESENTING REPORTS OF COMMITTEES



TABLING REPORTS, REGULATIONS AND OTHER PAPERS



STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS



GOVERNMENT NOTICES OF MOTION



INTRODUCTION OF BILLS



Bill No. 143 - Entitled an Act to Amend Chapter 63 of the Acts of 1992. The Halifax County
Charter. (Hon. James Barkhouse as a private member.)



MR. SPEAKER: Ordered that this bill read a second time on a future day.



The honourable Minister of Transportation.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if we could ask the appropriate individual if
perhaps the volume could be turned up a bit. There is no noise today and it is a great difficulty hearing
individuals.



MR. SPEAKER: Very well.



6169

 

NOTICES OF MOTION



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Opposition.



RESOLUTION NO. 1454



MR. TERENCE DONAHOE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move
the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the Liberals said during the 1993 election campaign that, “hiring practices under a
government led by John Savage would be based on fairness, accountability, integrity and competence”;
and



Whereas hiring practices adopted by the Liberal Government are not fair, have no integrity and
certainly are not accountable to the taxpayers of Nova Scotia; and



Whereas the latest adventure initiated by this government to look after key Liberal financial
contributors is their proposal to name Don Valardo to the Municipal Finance Corporation;



Therefore be it resolved that this government immediately ensure key Liberal Party fundraisers
stop getting their donations refunded in preference to other qualified Nova Scotian taxpayers.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.



RESOLUTION NO. 1455



MR. JOHN HOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas winter attractions often hide winter dangers, chief among them thin ice on the many
ponds and lakes throughout our province; and



Whereas those dangers were demonstrated yesterday when Justin Blair, a Grade 2 student at
George Bissett School in Cole Harbour, fell into a pond on his way home and was rescued by his
classmate, Aaron Bouchard; and



Whereas these two seven year olds also demonstrated the value of a buddy system when anyone is
outdoors in a hostile climate;



Therefore by it resolved that this House joins the parents of Aaron Bouchard and Justin Blair in
giving thanks for their survival after a close call, salutes Aaron’s rescue of his friend from a life-threatening situation and emphasize the lessons of this incident for all Nova Scotians regardless of age.



Mr. Speaker, I would request waiver of notice and passage without debate.






MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable member for Hants West.



RESOLUTION NO. 1456



MR. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move
the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the federal government is ignoring warnings from Canadians who feel any further tax
increases will contribute to more tax evasion and growth in underground economic activity; and



Whereas sources in Ottawa reveal the federal Liberal Government is contemplating about $2
billion in tax increases in its 1995-96 budget; and



Whereas the Nova Scotia Liberal Government should have learned a lesson, having increased
provincial taxes by $78 million in 1993-94, and having introduced a municipal service exchange which
will increase property and commercial taxes in many municipalities in Nova Scotia for 1995;



Therefore be it resolved that the Premier recognize that he has made mistakes and that he agree
today to make a strong appeal to federal Finance Minister, the Honourable Paul Martin, to avoid the same
folly in finalizing his budget plans for 1994-95.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Lunenburg.



RESOLUTION NO. 1457



MRS. LILA O’CONNOR: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the International Buskers Festival is truly an international event attracting hundreds of
thousands of families and funseekers from the metro area, Nova Scotia and the world for the past eight
years while generating an estimated $11.4 million in revenue; and



Whereas Bill Lydon, Chairman of the Buskers Festival Steering Committee, announced today
that a management structure has been developed to run the festival so that is contributes to the
community, ensures the continuation of the Buskers Festival in Halifax and provides a forum for corporate
sponsors to receive good promotional value; and



Whereas Oland Breweries is the first major corporate sponsor of the 1995 Buskers Festival;



Therefore be it resolved that this House of Assembly extend congratulations to the Buskers
Festival Steering Committee and to Oland Breweries for their dedication to the continuation of the
International Buskers Festival in Halifax.



Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver of notice.



MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed that notice be waived?



It is agreed.



Would all those is favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable member for Halifax Bedford Basin.



RESOLUTION NO. 1458



MR. GERALD FOGARTY: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move
the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the Atlanta Gift Show is North America’s largest 10 day gift show attracting 3,600
exhibitors with over 88,000 international buyers from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, Europe and South
America; and



Whereas the province is entering its fourth year at the show providing access to the global market
place; and



Whereas the five Nova Scotia craft/giftware producers exhibiting at the Atlanta Gift Show
include Victoriana Designs of Bedford; Out of the Wood Woodcraft of Bridgewater; the Clayton Dickson
Jr. Company of Halifax; Bay Life Art of Halifax; and History Reproduced of Boutilier’s Point;



Therefore be it resolved that the House of Assembly congratulate the Economic Renewal Agency
for organizing and coordinating the Nova showroom that provides the five Nova Scotia exhibitors with the
high profile so necessary in an event the size of the Atlanta Gift Show.



Mr. Speaker, I would request waiver of notice.



MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed that notice be waived on that?



It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable member for Kings West.






RESOLUTION NO. 1459



MR. GEORGE MOODY: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the Health Minister, some two years later, has finally released his document on home
care; and



Whereas the Health Minister, yesterday, described his plan as providing a structure rather than a
solution, and that the solution will come in stages some two years or more down the road; and



Whereas in the spring of 1993, while campaigning, the Liberal Party said that we make this firm
commitment, we will establish one comprehensive and effective Home Care Program with the same
standard available to Nova Scotians from one end of the province to the other;



Therefore be it resolved that the Health Minister stop backing away from a solution by, instead,
stirring up the structure surrounding the system as he did with his changes to hospitals and boards, and
provide real solutions to Nova Scotians in need who were promised in 1993 an expanded, upgraded Home
Care Program.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Cape Breton West.



RESOLUTION NO. 1460



MR. RUSSELL MACKINNON: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall
move the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas Nova Scotia’s health care reforms will benefit all Nova Scotians; and



Whereas a private sector proposal to provide an adult citizens’ day care centre in Sydney River
will further complement this holistic approach to health care and provide employment opportunity;



Therefore be it resolved that in the opinion of this House the Department of Health ensure
appropriate, regulatory assistance governing adult citizens’ day care centres for the benefit of all
concerned.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Queens.



RESOLUTION NO. 1461



MR. JOHN LEEFE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas Herbert Newell, a Liberal from Voglers Cove, Lunenburg County, can hardly claim to
be unique when he says, “I don’t know anyone who likes the Premier”; and



Whereas Max Russell, a Liberal Poll Chairman from New Germany tried to put a better face on it
when he said, “Not many folks are satisfied with him”; and



Whereas Lloyd Campbell, another South Shore Liberal observed, “opinions were from the far left
to the far right”, which seems to describe Premier Savage’s own transmutation across the political
spectrum;



Therefore be it resolved that the MLA for Shelburne, who believes the small turnout at the
Bridgewater Liberal meeting last night indicates the Party is not upset with the Premier, should, in fact,
recognize a wake when he sees one.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable Leader of the Opposition.



RESOLUTION NO. 1462



MR. TERENCE DONAHOE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move
the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas once again, the Premier has given up an important opportunity, publicly, to utilize a few
moments of his time with the Prime Minister to press Nova Scotia’s situation in relation to the possible
contents of the upcoming federal budget; and



Whereas the Premier has let Nova Scotians down with regard to federal-provincial relations at
every turn, from the EH-101 helicopter project to his fight to save the Cornwallis base; and



Whereas while the Premier’s usual excuse is that he doesn’t want to embarrass the Prime
Minister, he has been able to do that anyway, unfortunately, on the important economic mission to China;



Therefore be it resolved that the Premier take advantage of the Prime Minister’s visit to Halifax to
impress upon the Prime Minister that the Nova Scotia economy simply cannot withstand further tax
increases.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.



RESOLUTION NO. 1463



MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move
the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the Economic Renewal Minister placed his job on the line a year ago to defend his
endangered Leader from other Liberals’ attacks, and head up the SOS effort; and



Whereas yesterday, that same minister found time in his busy schedule to unveil a “life-size,
museum-quality” replica of an extinct Nova Scotia mastodon;



Therefore be it resolved that this House congratulates the Economic Renewal Minister for using
his hands-on experience with the endangered to help the Mastodon Ridge project, and looks forward to his
unveiling of a museum-quality replica of another extinct Nova Scotian, perhaps on John Savage Avenue
in Burnside.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Dartmouth-Cole Harbour.



RESOLUTION NO. 1464



MR. ALAN MITCHELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas a merger of the Metro Housing Authorities is one of the key recommendations of a
management audit at the Department of Housing and Consumer Affairs, prepared by Doane Raymond;
and



Whereas the Doane Raymond report suggests up to $1 million could be saved annually in
operating costs; and



Whereas the amalgamation of the Halifax Housing Authority and the Dartmouth/Halifax County
Regional Housing Authority marks the first step in the implementation process in addressing other issues
including the realignment of the management structure for tenant related matters;



Therefore be it resolved that this House of Assembly congratulate the Minister of Housing and
Consumer Affairs for the implementation of the audit recommendations to improve the quality of life for
tenants in public housing.



Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver of notice and passage without debate.



[12:15 p.m.]



MR. SPEAKER: There is a request for waiver of notice which requires unanimous consent.



Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable member for Eastern Shore.



RESOLUTION NO. 1465



MR. KEITH COLWELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the trawl baiters of the Eastern Shore are an integral part of the groundfishery of the
region; and



Whereas the trawl baiters provide an essential service in the groundfishery, without which
longline fishing vessels cannot go to sea; and



Whereas the Minister of Fisheries for the Province of Nova Scotia supports the request of the
trawl baiters of the Eastern Shore to be eligible for The Atlantic Groundfish Strategy, TAGS Program;



Therefore be it resolved that this House encourage the Honourable Lloyd Axworthy, federal
Minister of Human Resources and Development, and the Honourable Brian Tobin, federal Minister of
Fisheries, to review the eligibility criteria to include the trawl baiters of the Eastern Shore in The Atlantic
Groundfish Strategy.



Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver of notice.



MR. SPEAKER: There is a request for waiver of notice.



Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.



RESOLUTION NO. 1466



MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas mastodons roamed Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley and eastern Hants Counties some
80,000 years ago; and (Interruptions)



Whereas project developer Bill Hay has worked to ensure Stewiacke and surrounding area benefit
from the tourism potential surrounding the mastodon with the creation of a life size replica overlooking
Highway No. 102 along with the Mastodon Ridge Retail Complex; and



Whereas approximately 28,000 vehicles will go past the replica and ridge complex during peak
summer and fall travel months, in turn offering tremendous potential for business at the Mastodon Ridge
Retail Complex;



Therefore be it resolved that all members of this Legislature recognize the entrepreneurship of
developer Bill Hay and his drive to attract both business and tourists to Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley
and eastern Hants Counties.



Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask for waiver of notice.



MR. SPEAKER: It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable member for Queens.



RESOLUTION NO. 1467

 

 

MR. JOHN LEEFE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the Mayor of Lunenburg has been waiting since mid-October for a meeting with the
Minister of Health to discuss issues of concern facing Fishermen’s Memorial Hospital in Lunenburg; and



Whereas the mayor said recently, “he is still hopeful that the minister might agree to meet but
admitted it is becoming more and more unlikely”; and



Whereas the Minister of Health had no difficulty in visiting Lunenburg last May to meet with his
then deputy minister and departmental staff along with certain other interested parties to discuss health
care changes across Nova Scotia;



Therefore be it resolved that the next trip to Lunenburg by the Minister of Health be a trip that
will include a visit to the mayor’s office so that the mayor can personally express his community’s deep
concern respecting the future of the Fishermen’s Memorial Hospital.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



HON. RONALD STEWART: Mr. Speaker, may I rise on a point of order and perhaps take your
direction? The meeting to which the honourable gentleman’s resolution refers took place in December, just
prior to Christmas. I met with a luncheon meeting with the Mayor of Lunenburg. (Interruptions) Perhaps
he would correct that.



MR. SPEAKER: Well, if I might respond to the point of order, these notices of motion are
probably our House’s equivalent of the brief statements that members of the House of Commons are
allowed to make to express their point of view in a short, maybe 30 second clip or something of that
nature. The Chair is not really responsible for the accuracy of allegations of fact that are laid out in the
statements, especially in the “Whereas” portions. One could begin, perhaps, whereas two and two make
five and then proceed from that assumption, that doesn’t make it necessarily true or accurate, it is simply a
statement of individual belief or expression.



I hesitate to be unduly restrictive in these matters, so I feel that the motion should be tabled.



The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.






RESOLUTION NO. 1468



MS. ALEXA MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall
move the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas on October 19, 1993, the Premier proudly announced that a major objective of his
government was creation of an accessible, coordinated Home Care Program; and



Whereas he further announced that “elements of the program should be in place by January 1,
1994”; and



Whereas public relations flourishes launching small-scale pilot projects operating before
elements of the long overdue home care system is in place, do nothing to mask the reality that this
government is hopelessly stalled in developing comprehensive, integrated systems for home care and
attendant services in Nova Scotia;



Therefore be it resolved that the two year delay in putting even the most basic elements of a new
home care system in place should warn Nova Scotians that few, if any, community-based services will be
ready to replace the hundreds of hospital beds to be closed and already closed.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Kings West.



RESOLUTION NO. 1469



MR. GEORGE MOODY: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas according to figures provided by casino operator ITT Sheraton, 73 per cent of casino
revenues from their projects in Halifax and Sydney will be generated from native Nova Scotians; and



Whereas in order for the Nova Scotia Government to collect the projected $50 million in casino
revenue, Nova Scotians will have to spend $127.75 million annually at the slot machines and gaming
tables; and



Whereas the Minister of Finance has ignored advice from thousands of Nova Scotians, including
Cape Breton-The Sydneys Member of Parliament, Russell MacLellan, who is no supporter of a casino in
Cape Breton because of doubts about whether it will attract tourists and their dollars;



Therefore be it resolved that the government give up the folly of justifying casinos for Nova
Scotia by using information from other provinces and the casino operator and, instead, undertake an
independent evaluation of the assumptions on which the decisions have been based to proceed with
casinos.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled, although it seems somewhat like an attempt perhaps to
debate a bill that is before the Committee of the Whole House, but I will allow it as an expression of
individual opinion.



The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.



RESOLUTION NO. 1470



MR. JOHN HOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the Premier is absolutely disgusted that anyone would ask about the severance
provisions for his senior political staff, declaring that this is private information and such questions are
nasty; and



Whereas this same Premier and his entire Cabinet spent the month of November 1993 crowing
about the severance provisions for senior political staff in Donald Cameron’s office; and



Whereas the bill to Nova Scotian taxpayers for severance to individuals fired by the Premier is
fast approaching the $3 million mark;



Therefore be it resolved that the only disgusting aspect of severance arrangements for the
Premier’s top dollar political salvage squad is that Nova Scotians who are liable for those costs cannot find
out what their liability is.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.



RESOLUTION NO. 1471



MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the Municipality of Inverness has asked their MLA to vote against his government’s
municipal reform bill; and



Whereas Inverness County says the municipal reform legislation, combined with infrastructure
improvements, will result in the doubling of the property tax rate in Inverness County over the next five
years; and



Whereas Inverness County has stated that it simply cannot accept municipal reform, as presented
at this time;



Therefore be it resolved that the MLA for Inverness stand up and speak out for his constituents
and not be afraid to stand up to the Premier and tell him that he cannot accept tax hikes as proposed in the
present legislation.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.






MS. ALEXA MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall
move the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas New Waterford Town Council has reaffirmed its opposition to the imposition of a
casino in the Sydney area; and



Whereas the council has further asked that their MLA take a position and communicate his
casino position to constituents; and



Whereas this provides an ideal opportunity for the Cape Breton Centre MLA to break his famous
silence and give voice to the wishes of those who pay his salary;



Therefore be it resolved that this House urges the Cape Breton Centre MLA and his colleagues to
represent and express the opposition of their constituents to casinos and a massive expansion of gambling
in Nova Scotia.



MR. SPEAKER: Well, that resolution appears to me to be just a little bit past that invisible line
in the sand. Certainly we do have on our order paper, under the heading of Committee of the Whole
House on Bills, Bill No. 120, the Gaming Control Act, of which notice has been given that that bill will be
debated later this very day. Now surely, with that topic on the order paper, it cannot be separately debated
by way of a notice of motion. I, therefore, rule the proposed notice of motion out of order.



MR. KEITH COLWELL: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. When the honourable member for
Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley was speaking earlier, he was mentioning a mastodon that has been very
skilfully built on the Eastern Shore. He neglected to congratulate Atlantex, one of our local companies, for
producing this very lifelike model and without their craftsmanship, it would not have been available for
use in the area. Thank you. (Applause)



MR. SPEAKER: Well, the honourable member has made his point but I rule that there is no
point of order. I am calling for notices of motion. Are there further notices of motion?



The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.



RESOLUTION NO. 1472



MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move
the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas outside this House, both the Minister of Finance and Minister for the Economic
Renewal Agency, have claimed that this government is committed to decentralizing Civil Service jobs to
Amherst and Cape Breton; and



Whereas inside the House the Premier has denied that there is any such policy and will not even
speculate as to when or if decentralization will be adopted; and



Whereas few governments, even Liberal Governments, so obviously talk out of both sides of their
mouths at exactly the same time;



Therefore be it resolved that Cabinet should explain whether decentralization is subject to yet
another misunderstanding or whether the other ministers feel better placed than the Premier to decide
what this government will do in future months.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



Are there further notices of motion? If not, I have a request from the honourable Government
House Leader to revert to the order of business, Introduction of Bills.



INTRODUCTION OF BILLS



Bill No. 144 - Entitled an Act to Amalgamate the Oak Grove Cemetery Company and Elm
Grove Cemetery Company. (Mr. George Archibald)



MR. SPEAKER: Ordered that this bill be read a second time on a future day.



Is there any other business to come before the House under the heading of the daily routine? If
not, the time is now 12:28 p.m. The Oral Question Period today runs for one hour. It will therefore run
until 1:28 p.m.



ORDERS OF THE DAY



ORAL QUESTIONS PUT BY MEMBERS



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Opposition.



PREMIER - PRIME MINISTER VISIT (HFX.-13/01/95):

 

TAX INCREASES - OPPOSE



MR. TERENCE DONAHOE: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. The Premier is quoted in
the paper as saying that he will spend most of the private meeting that is upcoming, briefing Prime Minister
Chretien when he is here in Halifax on plans that are underway for Halifax to host the G-7 Summit in June
and he will not be harping on threatened federal spending cuts. Other than that, and the report quotes the
Premier, the Premier says, “`he . . .’”, meaning the Prime Minister, “`. . . and I will just be talking generally
and I will emphasize to him that Nova Scotia is a loyal subject,’, the premier said Tuesday.”.



Well, without taking too much issue at the fact that the Premier likes to refer to Nova Scotians as
subjects, I guess, to the Prime Minister, I thought we were all citizens of the country and the province. That
aside, I want to ask the Premier, why is it, Mr. Speaker, through you to the Premier, that you will not avail
yourself of the opportunity on Friday when the Prime Minister is here, to have a very serious chat - it need
not be lengthy but even a brief chat - to explain to the Prime Minister that if Mr. Martin should come forward
in the next little while with a budget which has serious tax increases and perhaps the reduction of regional
support programs, that either or both of those events could be devastating to the Nova Scotian economy? Why,
I ask on behalf of all Nova Scotians, does the Premier not intend to take the opportunity on Friday to make
those points as firmly and as forcefully as he can to the Prime Minister?



[12:30 p.m.]



HON. JOHN SAVAGE (The Premier): In the past eight weeks, I have spoken to Mr. Martin as
recently as three weeks ago, as did all the Maritime Premiers, Atlantic Premiers. I have spoken to Mr.
Collenette and I have spoken to the Prime Minister, so the assumption that this is a one event that is going
to solve the world is just the kind of misinterpretation that the Opposition Leader likes to put on affairs. We
have had discussions on these. I will be discussing the issues with him, but I have spent a lot of time talking
about the danger of the UI changes particularly on seasonal workers; I have spent a lot of time talking about
what is going to happen to university students if we don’t protect the universities, and the assumption that
everything can be solved in a few minutes is just the kind of way that we saw for 15 years that they thought
they could get by with Brian what’s his name, who was then Prime Minister. It didn’t work.



What works, Mr. Speaker, is regular, consistent discussion particularly through ministers and to
convey the government’s position. I can assure the Leader of the Opposition that this has been done and I can
assure him it will continue.



MR. DONAHOE: Mr. Speaker, am I now understanding that the Premier is, in fact, saying that when
the Prime Minister is in town on Friday, he, the Premier, is, in fact, making representations to the Prime
Minister relative to the potential adverse consequences of a federal budget which might raise taxes, which
might result in the reduction of regional support programs, which might adversely impact on the UI program,
which might have impact on the university students. I want to know, on behalf of Nova Scotians, if the
Premier is today saying he is planning to have discussions of that kind with the Prime Minister when he is
here on Friday?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, this rather childish insistence on one comment and one session with
the Prime Minister is typical of the facile and useless way that they governed the last 15 years. What we are
talking about is a consistent policy discussion. For instance, on the whole issue of UI in government, we are
adopting an Atlantic approach to this; the ministers have been as recently, in Newfoundland, as this week.
The Prime Minister knows that and I will acquaint the Prime Minister with the feelings that he already knows
from us because we are not content just on one occasion to use the Prime Minister’s ear. We use it consistently;
we talk to the Prime Minister’s office and we will continue to do so. (Applause)



MR. DONAHOE: Yes, that is pretty plain, Mr. Speaker, that what I think the Premier believes he
has accomplished here today is to look across the aisle and suggest that the question that was put on behalf
of Nova Scotians is childish and facile. I ask again, is the Premier or is he not - as part of what he describes
as a continuing effort on behalf of Nova Scotia taxpayers - going to ensure that when the Prime Minister is
in the city on Friday, he, the Premier, will again raise these vitally important issues with the Prime Minister?
I refer specifically to the concern about potential tax increases. Yes, you can make all the hand gestures and
play your childish little games over there. Is the Premier going to raise concerns on behalf of Nova Scotians
with the Prime Minister about the potential devastating effect on the Province of Nova Scotia if Mr. Martin
raises taxes, messes around with the UI system, and does not provide programs that are in support of the post-secondary education system of the Province of Nova Scotia? Is the Premier going to raise those issues with
the Prime Minister on Friday or is he not?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to rise in pseudo-anger in the rather childish way that
these have been expressed. What I am expressing, Mr. Speaker, is what we have done in the last six weeks.
We have met with the ministers concerned at the federal level; we have had discussions with virtually every
minister in the Cabinet. I personally have had long discussions with Mr. Martin in Moncton, as of December
10, I have had discussions over the phone with the Prime Minister and this facile assumption that a few
minutes talking about them in January is going to solve the issue just indicates the way in which this
government differed as opposed (Interruption)



MR. SPEAKER: Order, stop that shouting, order. (Interruption) The honourable Premier has the
floor.



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, my medical training leaves me to worry about the member opposite.
What I am saying is that we have had a lot of contact. We will continue to have a lot of contact, but let me
say one thing. Unlike government over there, we appreciate that the federal government has to make major
changes if it is not going to have an impact on us, also. It is useless for us to deny that the federal government
cannot, in some of its measures, produce some things that will have impact on us. That is bound to happen
if we are to share the problem with the whole question of the debt.



The debt, Mr. Speaker, in part incurred by the wanderings of that bunch over there for 15 years, is
a major issue. What we will continue to do is speak to the ministers. We will continue to speak to the Prime
Minister’s office, and the rather childish outburst over there should be forgiven for what it was.



MR. SPEAKER: There is too much heckling. Please, stop it.



The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.



FIN. - CASINOS: ITT SHERATON - AGREEMENT FULFILMENT



MR. JOHN HOLM: I want to direct my question through you, sir, to the Minister of Finance. Mr.
Speaker, the minister will know that Mr. MacInnes, who is a spokesperson for ITT Sheraton, has said that
all aspects of their proposal are under review and that their commitment to carry out those things that the
Minister of Finance himself announced a few weeks ago, really only exist at present.



My question to the minister is quite simply this. Is it the government’s bottom-line position that the
Sheraton must carry out all of those things that the minister announced, or is the government prepared to
renegotiate the proposal?



HON. BERNARD BOUDREAU: Mr. Speaker, in announcing the agreement with Sheraton, we also
made public, released, and I believe the honourable member has a copy of a memorandum of agreement that
was signed. That was a document which legally bound both parties. We intend to live up to the commitments
on that document and we expect ITT Sheraton to do likewise.



MR. HOLM: Mr. Speaker, well, you know, we have seen that this minister has not been able to live
up to one commitment that he has made with respect to gambling, so far. We have also seen that the ITT
Sheraton, obviously, is not very committed if they say that they are reviewing all aspects of the proposal.



My question to the minister then is, quite simply, this. If the minister is so confident in so-called
guarantees that he has, is the minister prepared to submit the proposal and guarantees to an independent body,
like the Auditor General or some other equally independent and qualified person, Mr. Speaker, to evaluate
the guarantees and then to report back to Nova Scotians what they really mean and, in fact, how reliable they
really are? Is the minister confident enough to do that?






MR. BOUDREAU: Mr. Speaker, I am not going to address the preamble which the honourable
member usually attaches to some of his questions, except to say this. The documentation that we have, the
commitment that ITT Sheraton has made, the international company, in guaranteeing those commitments,
we believe are firm and fixed. They have been reviewed by Council and they are available. The information
is available. As a matter of fact, the memorandum of agreement itself was made public. I am sure that the
honourable member’s Party has a copy of it. We are committed and convinced that this deal is firm in all of
its essential elements and will go forward as such.



MR. HOLM: Mr. Speaker, in answering my question what the minister really says is that he is
unprepared to have it undergo an independent financial analysis. My last question, then, to the minister is
simply this. What recourse does the province have and what penalties will the Sheraton have to pay if the
projected revenues and job creation that the government has promised are going to take, do, in fact, not
materialize, what penalties will they pay and what recourse does the province have?



MR. BOUDREAU: Mr. Speaker, the guarantees that have been set in place and guaranteed not only
by the operation here in Nova Scotia, not only by Sheraton Canada but by the international company, involve
the guarantees of capital investment, involve the guarantees that the operation will proceed on the basis that
they have outlined in seven or eight volumes of the proposal and associated documentation and, most
important, the guarantee that $176 million will be invested in Nova Scotia and $25 million minimum a year
will come to the people of this province, through the general revenue fund of the province. (Applause)



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings North.



DEVCO - PENSIONERS: COMMITMENT (GOV’T. [CAN.]) - HONOUR



MR. GEORGE ARCHIBALD: Mr. Speaker, through you I would like to ask a question to the
Premier. Devco is a very important part of the economy of both Nova Scotia and Cape Breton Island. The
federal government is abandoning the responsibility for Devco in 1995 and this will amount to probably some
$30 million. Part of the responsibility of the federal government is to the retired employees of Devco and there
is a multimillion dollar shortfall in the retired pension plan for the people who are on pension from Devco
at the present time. This could amount to payments in excess of $30 million over the next few years.



My question for the Premier, will you clearly express and demand and ensure that the federal
government honour its commitment to the retired employees of Devco?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I can’t give you any details of what it will cost at this particular time.
I undertake certainly to investigate and to report back.



MR. ARCHIBALD: Following along the same line, if our Premier cannot get a commitment, through
you, Mr. Speaker, to the Premier, if the Premier cannot get a commitment from the federal government to
continue to honour the commitment to the Devco employees, will the Premier tell us today who is going to
look after the $30 million shortfall? Will it be the people who are buying the coal from Devco or will there
be a subsidy from the Province of Nova Scotia to look after the pension from the retired workers?






THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I think there are a number of unwarranted assumptions being made
here. What I am telling you is that I will find out and I will report back. It would be foolish of me, without
more information than I have at my disposal in Question Period, to try and answer that particular question.



MR. ARCHIBALD: Through you again to the Premier, I know it is a very great concern to the
Premier and I realize that he will look into the matter both vigorously and thoroughly. But the bottom line
is there is going to be a minimum of a $30 million shortfall to Devco in the next year, due to the retirement
and pensioning of people. At the present time, we are all very concerned about power rates in Nova Scotia.
Will the Premier give assurances that the people purchasing power will not be the people responsible for the
debt of the federal government incurred by the Devco retired employees? Will you give the assurance that the
power rates of Nova Scotians will not be increasing, due to the federal government leaving $30 million?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, were Nova Scotia Power still in the hands of the government, I might
be in a position to give a commitment. However, the previous government gave it away and the assumption
that we control the power rates in this province is entirely out of keeping with the goals that they set out to
do in 1992. Therefore, the question is irrelevant.



What we will tell you is that we will look into this issue. It is of concern to all of us but we will give
you an answer when we have the right figures.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings West.



HEALTH - HOME CARE: FUNDING - ADDITIONAL



MR. GEORGE MOODY: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the honourable Minister of Health.
Yesterday the minister tabled Home Care Nova Scotia, A Plan for Implementation. In looking through that
plan, I was a little disappointed, I guess, in looking for something more concrete. There are a lot of
unanswered questions still surrounding home care in this province.



I would ask the minister, in releasing this, how many additional dollars in the next fiscal year will
be put in to upgrade home care and to expand home care in this province?



[12:45 p.m.]



HON. RONALD STEWART: Mr. Speaker, in terms of specifics, we have not completed budgetary
allotments. We are working on the projected figures. We would absolutely, however, consider the minimum
to be applying at least $25 million to the new programs as they unfold. We also have, of course, to tie in some
of those costs to facilities and to programs that are already funded, such as palliative care and the programs
that are beginning as we have announced this week. Of course, as the budget is unveiled, it will become
clearer in that regard.



MR. MOODY: Mr. Speaker, I was listening, but there is already $25 million put into home care
presently spent now, is the minister saying there is an additional $25 million or is that the $25 million? The
home care, on Page 10, indicated that home care would be accelerated in areas where hospitals are closed or
phased down. The new Home Care Program, I assume, will be up and running or has been up and running
in Kings County because one hospital has closed and the other is closing. How soon can we see this new
program and what kind of funds will we be looking at?



DR. STEWART: Yes, I can confirm that our targeting for the communities in which hospitals were
changed, in which hospital beds were closed, are in operation in several of the communities. I think there is
one coming on in the week, there is Annapolis Royal, Pictou. The area of Berwick and the Valley will be
coming online, we are concluding some discussions regarding the function of the hospital and other elements
there in terms of primary care and that would occasion some further discussions, so I can’t confirm that as to
date, but it will be probably this month.



MR. MOODY: I thank the minister for the answer. I just hope that the program is available. We have
one facility closed and one going to close and what are these people going to do in the meantime.



I noticed on Page 12, the home care, there is going to be a time limit that someone can have the use
of home care. I want to ask the minister if someone is in medical need or needs home care and qualifies, why
he would put a time limit on? If the person isn’t better or still needs the care, why is his department talking
about a time limit for anybody receiving home care? Why isn’t it strictly based on need and forget about the
time period?



DR. STEWART: I think the limits in the discussion to which the honourable gentleman referred
would be medically determined or determined by the assessors that are in place. So, it is limited in terms of
the need; as soon as the need is no longer present, I would assume that home care would cease for that
particular individual. So, there is flexibility built into that. The principle, of course, is that the needs be met.
I would reassure the honourable gentleman opposite that that would be a basic principle upon which we work.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.



HEALTH: REGIONAL BOARD (NORTHERN) - COMPOSITION



MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my question also to the Minister of
Health. I wonder if the Minister of Health has any knowledge of the difficulties which seem to have recently
arisen with the make up of the membership of the Northern Regional Health Board?



HON. RONALD STEWART: I am not aware of difficulties in respect to the Northern Regional
Health Board. There are, certainly, adjustments being made in all of the boards both in terms of their
composition. I wouldn’t term that as difficulties. I would consider it expected adjustments, Mr. Speaker.



MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I hope I am able to enlighten the minister a little bit here. In Saturday’s
edition of the Halifax Chronicle-Herald it states that, “Two members of the Colchester hospital board resigned
this week and at least four other board members at hospitals within northern Nova Scotia are considering their
future.”. In fact, the Chairperson, Robert Winters of the Northern Regional Health Board resigned as the head
of the local hospital board. I wonder if the minister is aware of that?



DR. STEWART: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am aware that some members have considered that their time
constraints would be such if they served on two boards. This is not a difficulty with the northern board, it
merely means that some members have agreed to serve on the northern board and to resign their post from
local hospital boards. So, I would consider that to be quite proper.



MR. TAYLOR: I think that, in fact I am quite sure, there may be a conflict of interest with the
hospital board chairperson serving also on a regional board, and I wonder if the minister is also aware that
the Chairman of the South Cumberland Hospital Board in Parrsboro and a member of the fledgling - as it
states here - the fledgling regional board said Friday he has been considering resigning from one or the other.
Also, Blake Daley, Chairman of the Highland View Hospital Board in Amherst, he says that I don’t intend
to leave the local board; I don’t see any conflict. I wonder if the minister has any intention of perhaps
imposing some sort of guidelines?



DR. STEWART: Yes, I am quite aware of this question. We have been examining it and we will
continue to examine it and have a ruling in terms of legalities. There is some difference of opinion, as the
honourable gentleman opposite refers to, and we will be having a ruling with direction to the boards as per
that ruling.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.



HEALTH: HOME CARE - WAITING LISTS



MS. ALEXA MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, I too, would like to direct my question to the Minister
of Health. In October 1993, the Premier assured Nova Scotians that home care, the development of a system
of comprehensive integrated home care was a top priority of this government and that the elements of that
system would be in place by January 1, 1994. The Minister of Health yesterday in this House caused quite a
stir when explaining why we have made no real progress in putting that comprehensive system of home care
in place, said that the government had been concentrating on the elimination of waiting lists. In fact, his exact
words were, “. . . we have adjusted the waiting lists. That has been our priority . . . We have reduced and
eliminated waiting lists in most communities.”.



My question to the honourable minister is whether he is aware that in metro alone, which is the
community that is best served in regard to home care services in this province so far, that there are waiting
lists of 15 months for people who are desperately in need and, in the meantime, in risk while they await home
care services?



HON. RONALD STEWART: I might say this is an example of the lengths to which the honourable
member opposite will go to disparage any improvements in the health care. The honourable member opposite
knows full well that the Home Care Program in this region is municipally controlled and we have, in fact,
from the provincial program, attacked our waiting lists as best we can. There is, as she very well knows and
as I have stated in the House in the past, we control only 40 per cent of the provincial Home Care Programs
in this province; we have municipalities controlling the rest and then in the Halifax-Dartmouth area that is
the case.



MS. MCDONOUGH: I guess all of the people in metro are to be told, well, the province’s
commitment to a comprehensive integrated home care system didn’t apply to you, and to the people in non-metro that the reason they shouldn’t be concerned about waiting lists is because there aren’t any services
anyway so what good would it be to be on a waiting list. I would ask the minister would he table in this House
the documentation to back up his contention that waiting lists in most communities had been reduced and
eliminated with respect to home care services since he took office?



DR. STEWART: I am not prepared to table those figures since I took office. The honourable member
opposite knows full well that we did not even have the Home Care Program within the jurisdiction of the
Department of Health until the end of 1993. So, we have been working for approximately 12 months to try
and change a system which had been in place since 1988, to support that system, and, indeed, in the areas and
in the programs which we control, we have tried to attack the waiting list and to target other areas as the
honourable gentleman from the Party opposite questioned in terms of the communities in which hospitals were
reduced in their function.



So I would tell the honourable member opposite that we have done what I have said in this place.
We have looked at the planning for the new system, we have looked at the reduction of the waiting lists in
the programs which we control, and we have also put in place targeted programs which are now fully
operational in some of the communities. We have announced several more and we will go on through the
months to do the same thing in order to achieve our goals.



MS. MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary relates to the flurry of positive publicity
which this minister and the government enjoyed yesterday by associating itself quite wisely with an excellent
attendant services pilot project, every detail of which was, in fact, developed by disabled consumer volunteers
in this community four years ago and has been desperately waiting for implementation and through sheer
persistence and tenacity, this government has finally, belatedly, financed, on a very partial pilot project basis.



My question to the minister is whether he would, at least on this point alone, give an accurate
reflection of that program, not represented as one of the government initiatives that his department has been
busy developing over the last year and one-half since it took office, but finally financed as a result of
persistent, tenacious, creative effort on the part of disabled consumers in this province?



DR. STEWART: Mr. Speaker, I welcome that question on the part of the honourable member
opposite, simply to pay tribute to the very people who have taken it upon themselves in the independent living
philosophy that they have adopted and adopted well - several of the disabled people in this province and in
this particular city - to indeed work very hard for this. I attended a meeting to thank them, not to associate
ourselves and say we did it, except to say that we have funded that program, it is true. If we did not say that,
we would not be able to be able to give proper tribute to the groups that have worked so hard at this and I
would not take any credits for developing this. This is a paternalistic attitude for the rest of it but we have
funded this program. We intend, in fact, to work with them and to work with groups such as this, to develop
home care programs that will serve their needs. It is very proper that the honourable member opposite would
bring to our attention the fact that this indeed was a project that was initiated and very hard work put into it
to bring it to fruition.



I might say that it was only within months that we had examined this program that the approval was
obtained and that we went ahead with it. So I appreciate her reminding us of the fact that indeed it was the
disabled people in this very city that led to this program. (Applause)






MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings West.



HEALTH - SUSAN PEEL: HOSPITAL TREATMENT - DELAY



MR. GEORGE MOODY: Mr. Speaker, my question, too, through you, is for the honourable Minister
of Health. Yesterday I had a very disturbing call. I had a call from Susan Peel of 6174 Allen Street in Halifax
who told me that she became very ill last July. She had seen at least four doctors and two specialists who tried
to get her in the hospital. She tried in July, she tried in August and September, all the physicians working very
hard to secure her a bed. In the meantime, she was very ill at home. Finally, on October 4th, around 5:00 p.m.,
she called the minister’s office and Jeff MacLeod - I spoke to Jeff MacLeod - and he assured her that her
problem would be looked after. On October 6th she got in hospital. She was in hospital until November 11th,
a very sick person.



She is very concerned, is this, she wants to know, the procedure that all Nova Scotians who have been
waiting for treatment and sometimes those who are painfully waiting, should follow to ensure when even a
specialist cannot get them a bed, they can call the minister’s office?



[1:00 p.m.]



HON. RONALD STEWART: I will say, categorically, Mr. Speaker, that I nor my staff have ever
intervened to change the clinical direction and the clinical decision of any physicians in this province.



MR. MOODY: Mr. Speaker, Susan Peel indicated that three years ago, when she had similar
problems, the doctors were able to get her a bed within a very short time without having to call any minister’s
office. She is concerned that with the cuts that are coming in health care, that people like herself have
nowhere to turn when specialists and other physicians, who she is willing to identify and will talk to the press,
cannot secure her a bed.



What kind of assurance can this minister give to the people like the Susan Peel’s of this province,
who cannot get their doctors to secure them a bed when they are very ill?



DR. STEWART: Mr. Speaker, physicians and clinicians will decide when admission is warranted
in a hospital. Hospitals have the duty and the responsibility and mandate to ensure that patients are taken care
of. I will repeat, it is reprehensible to me to suggest that I or my staff would in any way intervene with that
process.



MR. MOODY: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the minister if he would ensure Nova Scotians that there
will not be a continued cut of hospital beds? People now are waiting and waiting for hospital procedures
because of this minister’s cuts. When will this minister ensure that Nova Scotians will have a bed available
when they need one in this province? (Interruptions)



MR. SPEAKER: Order, order.



DR. STEWART: Mr. Speaker, this is the simplistic attitude that has pervaded the health care system
in this province . . . (Interruption)



MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I cannot hear the Minister of Health.



DR. STEWART: . . . and exhibited by the honourable gentleman opposite. The simplistic attitude
that we simply throw more money and throw more hospital beds and will cure the system. That is not true.
Why, for example, did he allow, as minister in the past administration, to have the lowest rate of same-day
surgery, occupying up to 300 bed days per year in these institutions?



MR. SPEAKER: Order, the honourable member for Kings West does not have the floor.



DR. STEWART: He did nothing to change that. We have said that it is the use of the beds and the
institution of programs such as home care and same-day surgery that will add to our bed capacity, and not
throwing money and throwing beds at a system that needs essential change. (Applause)



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Hants West.



EXCO - DEPUTY MINISTERS: HIRING - SALARY RANGE



MR. RONALD RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. Yesterday, I asked the
Premier a question with regard to the appointment of deputy ministers and how the starting salary was made
for deputy ministers and who made that particular determination. I was wondering if the Premier has an
answer?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I did, indeed, follow that up. Since the discussion of salaries and those
kind of things is the responsibility of the Minister of Human Resources, I have discussed it with her and I hope
that she may have the information.



HON. ELEANOR NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, the deputy minister’s salaries are MCP38. That
compensation plan has been in place since 1991, as the members opposite know. They start at 90 per cent and
go up to 104 per cent, depending on the qualification of the individual, the salaries are set through the
compensation plan of the province. (Applause)



MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, would the minister confirm that when a deputy minister is appointed
by the Premier, that the salary discussions are made between the deputy minister and the Civil Service
Commission or the minister or her Deputy Minister of Human Resources? Would she confirm that?



MRS. NORRIE: Once a deputy minister has been appointed, the negotiations take place with officials
within the Department of Human Resources and the Deputy Minister of the Premier’s Office. They look at the
qualifications of the deputy minister who has been appointed, under a scale that has been in place, Mr.
Speaker, since 1991, when these people opposite were members of the governing Party and that scale is no
different than it was then. The compensation analysts within the Department of Human Resources will
evaluate the qualifications and the experience and negotiate with the deputy minister for their salary.
(Applause)



MR. RUSSELL: Well, Mr. Speaker, I suppose my question boils down to this in my final
supplementary. Just a few days ago, we had appointed to the position of Deputy Minister of the Department
of Agriculture, Arnold Rovers, a very well-qualified civil servant with 27 years of distinguished service in this
province. He came into the Civil Service as a deputy minister at the salary range, I believe, of $87,500, which
I believe is the 80 per cent range, less the 3 per cent.



About 10 days or two weeks ago, there was an appointment made of Mr. Bob MacKay to the
Premier’s Office or to Priorities and Planning, as a deputy minister, not at 100 per cent but at 104 per cent,
Mr. Speaker, at the salary range of $97,000. I was wondering if the minister would advise the House the
excess qualifications that Mr. Bob MacKay has over, for instance, many other deputy ministers but, in
particular, Mr. Arnold Rovers, in receiving 104 per cent compared to 80 per cent of the salary range for
deputy ministers.



MRS. NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, we have had two weeks of questioning on hiring and on compensation.
This government has been the most open and fair and competitive in its hiring practices done in this province
for the past 15 years. (Applause) This province has been an embarrassment to the rest of this country in how
it has handled its hiring practices. (Interruption) In order to manage this government with the finances that
are available to us, we have instituted an early retirement program that has saved this province $170 million.
I want to thank the employees of this province for stepping in and helping out with that. (Applause)



When the Premier’s Office restructured and hired people in the last couple of weeks, they replaced
four employees with three employees, (Interruption) saving the Province of Nova Scotia close to $70,000 in
the process. In the hiring of the Clerk of the Executive Council we have saved the province $5,000.



I am proud to say, Mr. Speaker, that this government has managed and restructured in the best
interests of the taxpayers of this province. We have saved millions of dollars in the process and the members
opposite should be standing up and applauding us. (Applause)



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Hants West on a new question.



HUMAN RES.: MARY JANE HAMPTON (HEALTH) - SALARY



MR. RONALD RUSSELL: Well, the Minister of Human Resources tells us about how transparent
and open this government is in their hiring practices, in revealing information regarding salaries, et cetera.
Would she tell us please the salary of Mary Jane Hampton?



HON. ELEANOR NORRIE: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Mary Jane Hampton’s salary under contract is
$85,000. (Applause)



MR. SPEAKER: If this is a new question and not a supplementary, I think it is the turn of the NDP
now.



I will recognize the honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.



DEVCO: UMW INITIATIVE - SUPPORT



MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, this question is to the Minister of Natural Resources. He
and all members, I think, will be aware of the fact that we passed unanimously a couple of resolutions in this
House supporting the initiative of the United Mine Workers, with respect to the opening of Donkin Mine and
to the question of dealing with some problem labour/management relations with Devco.



The union is travelling to Ottawa on Monday to meet with the minister responsible, Mr. Manley, and
I would like to ask the minister if he could, on behalf of the government, indicate what he has done to make
sure that the federal government and the minister responsible understands the support that this House and,
presumably this government, has lent to the United Mine Workers in this initiative?



HON. DONALD DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, obviously, that is federal jurisdiction. I am very much aware
that the federal minister responsible for the Crown Corporation is very clear on the position of the United
Mine Workers and he is dealing with that issue. It is their jurisdiction and I believe it is to their best interest
to deal with it.



MR. CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I understand that it is federal jurisdiction. I also understand as did
the Minister of Education when he introduced a resolution in this House on this issue with respect to the
opening of the Donkin Mine and supporting the initiatives of the United Mine Workers that it was important
for us here in this House and for the Government of the Province of Nova Scotia to indicate very clearly to
that federal minister responsible just how important we feel Devco and the coal industry in Cape Breton is
to this province. I would ask this minister if in advance of the meeting that is going to be held on Monday,
in Ottawa, that he will communicate with the minister responsible, Mr. Manley, and clearly indicate that this
initiative has the full support of this House and the Province of Nova Scotia?



MR. DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, I have met with representatives of the United Mine Workers and I know
that they are very articulate and very persuasive in pointing out their concerns at the federal level. The
Members of Parliament in that area are obviously very much aware of the situation. With regard to the
unanimous position of the House in regard to the opening of the Donkin Mine, I would have to go back and
refresh myself as to whether or not it was the unanimous position of the House. I will endeavour to take a look
at that.



With regard to the federal minister, when I met with the representatives of the mine workers, there
was no suggestion at that point in time from the United Mine Workers for me to intervene in any way. They,
in turn, were doing their job. I think they are doing an excellent job in presenting their case forward at the
federal level. They have representatives of the federal government sitting in their riding that they are
obviously well accustomed to talking with about their concerns but it has never been brought to my attention
as minister at the provincial level from the United Mine Workers that they are asking me to intercede in any
way on their behalf dealing with a federal jurisdictional matter.



MR. CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, perhaps I could direct my final supplementary then to the Minister
of Education who was not only the author of a resolution in this House with respect to the Donkin Mine and
supporting the United Mine Workers but also was one of the local members who signed a petition in support
of the initiative of the United Mine Workers. Would he indicate to this House today that he will communicate
on behalf of this House the support that this House has afforded to the United Mine Workers on this matter
and the support the government gives before that meeting is held on Monday? Will he communicate that
support to the minister responsible, Mr. Manley?



HON. JOHN MACEACHERN: Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to the question from the honourable
member, if he would check the record, he would find out that the recommendation asked that there be a
resolve between the management and union, because there is a significant difference there that must be
resolved. That was communicated to all parties and that was part of what happened here in the House that
day. But if he would like me to make the resolution clearer, I will make sure that the resolution is forwarded
to both the minister and the union, both resolutions, the one on Donkin that the House passed unanimously
and the other one on the development of better management/labour relationships.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Opposition.



PREMIER - PRIME MINISTER VISIT (HFX.-13/01/95):

 

BUDGET (CAN.) - TAX INCREASES OPPOSE



MR. TERENCE DONAHOE: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. While I understand, as
I am sure the Premier does as well, that discussions between two levels of government are a matter of
dialogue. I wasn’t asking earlier about instant gratification and instant answer. But notwithstanding the fact
that the Premier likes to suggest that my questions are childish, it occurs to me that by definition he suggests
that the thousands of Nova Scotians who expect leadership from him and ask us in the Opposition to ask
questions of the kind we do might be suggesting that the concerns of the Nova Scotian population are,
therefore, childish.



[1:15 p.m.]



That aside, I wonder knowing that notwithstanding the games being played, knowing that the
Premier will have the opportunity to meet with the Prime Minister on Friday, I want to ask the Premier if he
will promise Nova Scotians that he will exercise some leadership during that time that he is together with the
Prime Minister and ask if the Premier will take what opportunity he can to ensure that the Prime Minister,
as part of this continuing dialogue, that the Prime Minister does understand the province’s concerns about
possible serious adverse consequences of the upcoming federal budget if, in fact, there are tax increases, as
part, as I say, of what he considers and describes as an ongoing dialogue? Will he take advantage of that
opportunity to continue that dialogue and express those concerns to the Prime Minister?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I think what I have explained before is that the dialogue doesn’t just
start on Friday. (Interruption) We have been speaking for many months on this issue. The issue is primarily
that of what measures Mr. Martin, as the federal Minister of Finance, is going to introduce. We have had
input into the various ministers’ offices. We have met with the ministers and I have discussed this with the
Prime Minister. I am sure I will find time to say a few words when he is here on the G-7 but it is not those
kinds of interventions, dramatic as they may be portrayed, that make the difference; it is the conversations
that these people here have had with their colleagues in the federal department, it is the conversations that
we have had with the regional ministers. He knows, as well as I do, that we have been doing that ever since
the first proposals were floated on reducing the amount for universities by $90 million or, and in particular,
and I have spoken out frequently in public on the issue of seasonal workers and UI. We will continue to
represent the people of Nova Scotia.



MR. DONAHOE: So, I take it that I am able to understand that answer from the Premier to be a
commitment from him that when he is in the presence of the Prime Minister, the Premier will ensure that he
says to and explains to Mr. Chretien that there will be potential serious adverse consequences to the Province
of Nova Scotia if Mr. Martin’s budget does contain tax increases and that the Premier of Nova Scotia will be
asking the Prime Minister of Canada to do what he can to ensure that Mr. Martin’s budget does not include
tax increases. Have I understood the Premier correctly?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, what I have said I guess I can repeat, that we will continue to impress
upon our federal colleagues that any steps taken by the federal government should, first of all, be in
consultation with us. I think we have that from both the Minister of Education and the Minister of Community
Services, both of whom were in Newfoundland on Tuesday to discuss with their colleagues the approach we
are taking.



The issue of whether or not tax increases, which is the issue that I suspect the Leader of the
Opposition is eventually getting around to, is, of course, a matter for the federal government to decide on, in
their wisdom, how they are going to attack the budget deficit. Since they did not call us when we attacked our
federal deficit, of course attacking deficit is a problem that is unknown to my colleagues on the other benches,
we are not in the position of saying in public what we talked to them about but we will discuss and continue
to discuss those measures that we think are best for the people of Nova Scotia.



MR. DONAHOE: Well, the Premier is the Leader of the Province of Nova Scotia and, as such, owes
an obligation to explain to the people of Nova Scotia the way and the manner in which he is exercising that
leadership. So, I ask the Premier point blank, will he, upon the conclusion of his discussions with the Prime
Minister, report either directly or through the Minister of Finance, the substance even of the representations
which he and other ministers, perhaps, if they have the opportunity to speak to the Prime Minister, will make
to the Prime Minister, which would outline the potential adverse consequences to the economy of Nova Scotia,
if certain things are done in the federal budget? Will the Premier give the commitment to report to this House
and to Nova Scotians, subsequent to his meetings with the Prime Minister?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance has met with the Ministers of Finance and
with the federal Finance Minister. The Ministers of Finance will be meeting with the federal Finance
Minister. This is an accepted process that goes on all the time.



In those discussions, I would suspect that the Minister of Finance has conveyed our views to the
federal Minister of Finance, as we have, indeed, to the Minister responsible for ACOA in Nova Scotia and
the Minister of Public Works, the Honourable David Dingwall. We have discussed them with Mr. Axworthy,
my colleague here has discussed them. Our policies are quite clear. We are supportive of our federal
colleagues, but we will not hesitate to impress upon them those issues which we think should be better done
for Nova Scotia than the way they propose to do them. We have done this in the past and we will continue to
do it in the future.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Pictou Centre.



DEVCO - SUBSIDY: DISCONTINUANCE - DISCUSS



DR. JOHN HAMM: Mr. Speaker, this question is to the Premier. Recent unemployment statistics
indicate that Cape Breton Island is not participating in the economic recovery which is being enjoyed by much
of North America and throughout much of Canada.



With that background, the end of the $32 million annual federal subsidy to Devco this April, if not
adequately addressed, will certainly add a very strong element of uncertainty to the jobs of 2,200 Cape Breton
coal miners. Last year, without the federal subsidy, Devco would have had an $18 million loss.



My question to the Premier is, what representation has been made to and what discussions held with
the federal government surrounding the discontinuance of the subsidy on April 1st to Devco?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, we should emphasize because the inference is that there are less
people employed in Cape Breton. There are 3,000 more people employed in Cape Breton than there were at
this time last year. There are many more who are seeking work and that is giving, to some extent, the
distortion of the figures.



Nevertheless, I share, with the honourable member opposite, concern for high unemployment in Cape
Breton. We have had discussions with federal ministers on this. The decision was made long before we got
there. In fact, it was made by the Conservative Government that they would phase out the subsidies to Devco.
We are working with our colleagues to make sure that, under the circumstances, the difficulty, and I refer to
another question which I have taken under advisement, the pensions, for instance, that, in effect, there will
not be a disadvantage to the people of Cape Breton.



DR. HAMM: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Premier for the answer. Unfortunately, I really did not get the
answer that I think the coal miners are looking for in Cape Breton and that is, what is being done to address
the problem?



My question to the Premier, by way of first supplementary, if nothing is done, would the Premier give
an estimate as to how long he would predict Devco could continue to operate under today’s market conditions?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, that kind of prophecy is beyond me. I am prepared to continue the
dialogue that we have established with the members in Cape Breton because it is of concern to us. But as to
the prophecy of how long - what will continue - when, those hypothetical questions are, perhaps, best left to
others.



DR. HAMM: Mr. Speaker, by way of final supplementary to the Premier. If, in fact, nothing is done
in terms of monetary support of Devco by the federal government, what contingency plan does the provincial
government have if, in fact, the subsidy stops and there is a real threat to 2,200 coal miners in Cape Breton
losing their jobs?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, you will note and Hansard will record that he said if, in fact, nothing
is done. We are talking about a hypothetical question. We are talking about hypothetical issues and, as such,
there is no point in trying to address this, except to say that we will continue the dialogue in support of the
people in Cape Breton.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.



NAT. RES. - AIRCRAFT TENDER: HIGHEST BID - CONFIRM



MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the honourable Minister of Natural
Resources. Recently, the government put up for sale a DeHaviland Beaver aircraft. It was done through the
Public Tenders Office. I wonder if the minister can confirm, today, whether the high bid for this aircraft was
accepted or not?



HON. DONALD DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, I certainly want to get a copy of the process. I don’t
remember exactly what the high bid was. I would assume it was the high bid that was originally accepted.
Whether or not the high bid that was accepted, in fact, was able to come up with the money I believe was a
concern, about whether or not the money was able to be achieved and so we had to take a second bid. But I
will go back and endeavour to review that.



MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I don’t really think it was a question about whether the high bidder,
the information I have whether the high bidder had the money or not, in fact, I have information that suggests
and perhaps the minister can confirm this for me that if the high bidder, which was a Montreal offer, I am
wondering if it was rejected because he wanted to pay for it in cash and that, in fact, the airplane was sold to
a Bear River man who has since sold it to the Montreal man and in the process turned a profit at the expense
of the province?



MR. SPEAKER: I don’t know that that type of question is within the departmental jurisdiction of the
Minister of Natural Resources but if he wishes to respond, he may.



MR. DOWNE: Mr. Speaker, I will certainly endeavour to take that information back and report back
to the member opposite with the information that he is referring to.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.



PREMIER - STAFF (SENIOR): SEVERANCE ARRANGEMENTS - REVEAL



MR. JOHN HOLM: My question, Mr. Speaker, sir, is through you to the Premier. Earlier this
afternoon we heard the Minister of Human Resources give some details on salaries, et cetera and my question
to the Premier is quite simply, has he spoken with his new hired staff in his office and has he received their
permission to tell Nova Scotians what their severance package is that they negotiated?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I have spoken to the people in my office on their private contracts that
they have. This is a private matter, they are not prepared to release them. I support them completely in that
and I have given the salaries and I think that is a reasonable answer to the question.



MR. HOLM: The Premier and his Cabinet colleagues were very critical of the former government
for the lucrative severance arrangements that they had negotiated with their staff and they crowed about it
every day and my question to the Premier, why the double standards? Why were you so critical of the packages
that they negotiated when you are unprepared even to let Nova Scotians know what liability they are on the
hook for?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, the people that we are employing are people who will obviously,
because of their integrity and their determination to serve long in the course of the service of this government,
the issue will not be arising, so it is not an issue that is of significance.



MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The time allotted for the Oral Question Period has expired. I
neglected to notify the House earlier that the Clerk had conducted a draw for the Adjournment debate at 6:00
p.m. The draw today was won by the honourable member for Pictou Centre. His resolution reads:



Therefore be it resolved that the government encourage small towns to search out sources of technical
advice to assist in the development of strategic planning initiatives that will foster long-term growth.



So, we will hear on that matter at 6:00 this evening.



GOVERNMENT BUSINESS



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, would you please call the order of business, Private and
Local Bills for Second Reading.



PRIVATE AND LOCAL BILLS FOR SECOND READING



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 141.



Bill No. 141 - Halifax Superannuation Act.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Halifax Bedford Basin.



MR. GERALD FOGARTY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to provide just a few details on this bill and
what it purports to do. Amendments have been approved both by Halifax City Council and the Retirement
Committee under the Act which includes representatives of employee groups. The main thrust of the
amendments in this Act would be to restructure benefits provided under the plan. Benefits will be improved
first by reducing the number of years of service from five to three and by eliminating the set off for Canada
Pension Plan benefits. There are just a few details in this bill and I would so move second reading.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.



MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I may have missed this when the member rose to move
second reading of this bill. But I assumed that the unions involved have participated in this decision.



[1:30 p.m.]



Mr. Speaker, I think there are some significant changes here. Perhaps I am mistaken but I look
forward at the Private and Local Bills Committee to hear representations from not only the City of Halifax
but also representatives of the employees. Maybe for the benefit of myself and other members, the member
who is sponsoring this bill could perhaps reiterate what he said when he was introducing the bill, whether,
in fact, the employee groups have participated in drawing up these amendments.



MR. SPEAKER: If I recognize the honourable member who introduced the bill it will be to close the
debate.



The honourable member for Halifax Bedford Basin.



MR. GERALD FOGARTY: Mr. Speaker, that is my understanding, that the employee groups have
participated and are aware of the amendments proposed in this bill. When it goes to the Committee on Private
and Local Bills on Friday, I believe, there will be representation there and further details will be forthcoming.
Thank you.



MR. SPEAKER: The motion is for second reading of Bill No. 141. Would all those in favour of the
motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



Ordered that this bill be referred to the Committee on Private and Local Bills.



The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 142.



Bill No. 142 - Halifax City Charter.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Labour.



HON. JAY ABBASS: I would move second reading, Mr. Speaker.



MR. SPEAKER: The motion is for second reading of Bill No. 142. Would all those in favour of the
motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



Ordered that this bill be referred to the Committee on Private and Local Bills.



The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, the Chairman of the Private and Local Bills Committee has
indicated that the committee will be meeting tomorrow. Our Party certainly has no difficulty with waiving
the notice required and allowing the Private Member’s Bill introduced by the member for Kings North to be
put forth at this time as well, for second reading.



MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 144.



Bill No. 144 - Oak and Elm Grove Cemetery Company Act.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings North.



MR. GEORGE ARCHIBALD: I move second reading, Mr. Speaker.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings North moves second reading of his bill which
he introduced earlier this afternoon. I believe it related to the amalgamating of two cemetery companies. Are
there interveners on the debate?



The motion is for second reading of Bill No. 144. Would all those in favour of the motion please say
Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



Ordered that this bill be referred to the Committee on Private and Local Bills.



The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Also, Mr. Speaker, if no one objects, we could have second reading on
the bill introduced by the honourable Minister of Fisheries, as a private member, the Halifax County Charter.



MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, would you please call Bill No. 143.



Bill No. 143 - Halifax County Charter.



MR. SPEAKER: Would the honourable Minister of Fisheries move second reading, please.



HON. JAMES BARKHOUSE: I so move, Mr. Speaker.



MR. SPEAKER: The motion is for second reading of Bill No. 143. Would all those in favour of the
motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



Ordered that this bill be referred to the Committee on Private and Local Bills.



The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: I wonder if we could try that with the next one.



Mr. Speaker, I move that you do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a Committee
of the Whole House on Bills.



MR. SPEAKER: The motion is carried.



[1:35 p.m. The House resolved itself into a CWH on Bills with Deputy Speaker Mr. Gerald O’Malley
in the Chair.]



[6:00 p.m. CWH on Bills rose and the House reconvened. Mr. Speaker, Hon. Paul MacEwan,
resumed the Chair.]



MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The winner for the Adjournment debate is the honourable member
for Pictou Centre. The honourable member for Hants West is the substitute, I suppose, for the honourable
member for Pictou Centre. The subject for debate is:



Therefore be it resolved that the government encourage small towns to search out sources of technical
advice to assist in the development of strategic planning initiatives that will foster long-term growth.



ADJOURNMENT



MOTION UNDER RULE 5(5)



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Hants West.



MUN. AFFS.: SMALL TOWNS - STRATEGIC PLANNING



MR. RONALD RUSSELL: In the absence of the member for Pictou Centre, it gives me a great deal
of pleasure this evening to speak about small towns in Nova Scotia and in particular about the Town of
Windsor in Hants County and a process that they have underway to re-energize the town.



Mr. Speaker, the Town of Windsor has undertaken a strategic planning initiative that I believe
enables communities to progressively plan for the future. With the approach of the year 2000, we are entering
into a new 100 years that I am sure will be very different from the past 100 years.



Communities across this province have undergone and will continue to undergo rapid change in the
next few years. Industries are changing and with that, changes in technology are taking place with great
rapidity. The information highway is playing a leading role in this change and it is essential that Nova Scotia’s
smaller towns, not just the metropolitan area, play a leading role in this technological change.



Mr. Speaker, I would like to tell members of this Legislature this evening about a strategic planning
initiative that has been undertaken in the Town of Windsor with assistance from the Technical University of
Nova Scotia.



The meetings began in Windsor earlier this year, Mr. Speaker, and since the spring of this year there
have been a number of meetings that have been held with the people from TUNS, in fact the latest meeting
was held just last evening when the Technical University of Nova Scotia, their team, briefed the Town of
Windsor on their efforts to date.



Mr. Speaker, governments of all shapes and sizes throughout the western world are experiencing
difficult financial times and some, not all, are leaning upon the general public for advice and assistance. I
think that that is something that all governments must do. Certainly, that is what the residents of the Town
of Windsor are doing. A number of public meetings have transpired and a number of interested citizens have
turned out and become involved in this process.



The Town of Windsor, I am sure as everybody is aware, is the Gateway to the Annapolis Valley. It
is the home to such significant historic landmarks as Haliburton House. Shand House is a recent addition to
the historic homes in Windsor, having been donated to the town by Mrs. Shand about five or six years ago,
I think it is now. It has been a great addition insofar as the tourism season is concerned in the Town of
Windsor.



Mr. Speaker, Windsor is also known for its high tides and it is worth noting that a publication
recently put out by the University of Hawaii recently featured a picture of the high tides experienced in
Windsor.



Windsor is well-known, with the exception, perhaps, of Don Cherry, as the Birthplace of Hockey
(Interruption) No, he doesn’t as a matter of fact. Windsor’s Hockey Museum was featured on the CBC
Primetime National News last Friday evening. One of the leading organizers in this process to establish
Windsor’s claim as the birthplace of hockey is Dr. Garth Vaughan, a surgeon and physician in the Town of
Windsor - and, incidentally, also a great painter in the Town of Windsor - and he has worked tirelessly in
promoting Windsor as being the Birthplace of Hockey and the establishment of Long Pond as a future tourism
site, Mr. Speaker, where people can go and actually see where the first game of hockey was played, not only
in North America but, we suggest, in the world.



Windsor is also home to the second oldest school in the British Commonwealth, Kings Edgehill.
Kings Edgehill opened in 1788 and students from around the world attend this prestigious private school
every year. They are coming in, Mr. Speaker, now from Japan, from Hong Kong, from China, from the
various United States and a great many are coming in now from Europe.



One can even tie hockey and Kings Edgehill together because Kings Edgehill has always been noted
as having strong hockey teams. But this year in particular, Mr. Speaker, Kings Edgehill has played 30 hockey
games and have yet to lose a game this season, so they are having a good year. They are also defending Triple
“A” High School Hockey Champions in Nova Scotia. Just recently two U.S. hockey scouts were in Windsor
and attended a game on a Monday evening in Windsor, one from the University of Wisconsin and the other
one from Northeastern University and they were actually interviewing some of the students from Kings
Edgehill about their future plans once they have finished high school. I think it says a lot for a high school
hockey team when they can attract scouts from as far away as Wisconsin for a game of high school hockey
in the small town of Windsor.



Windsor is also home to the world famous pumpkin weighoffs. Mr. Speaker, while I am going
through these items that are of interest to me, the rationale behind this whole process is to find out what your
strengths are and these are the strengths that Windsor has and that they should be exploiting. One can drive
out on College Road which is the road leading out to Kings Edgehill and along that road you will pass the
farm of Howard Dill and Howard Dill has tourists from all over North America visit his place and also now
they are coming in from as far away as Australia and New Zealand where they are also holding public
pumpkin weighoffs which are an international competition now every fall. Speaking of the fall, Windsor is
also home to the country fair which attracts thousands of tourists every year.



The strategic planning initiative which has taken place is simply a strategy of thinking ahead and
trying to develop a strategy as to where a town is headed and how it is going to get there. As I mentioned
earlier, this is especially important in today’s economic climate of budgetary restraints and rather limited
resources. Having a clear direction is very necessary. One of the key steps is to identify the strengths and
weaknesses of a town and those areas which a town feels should be addressed. Strengths which have been
identified in the Town of Windsor include the cost of housing, the history and heritage of the town, the
voluntary spirit which now exists, as well as the attractive setting of the town as it is on Lake Pesaquid.






Other strengths which have been identified include a dedicated and well-equipped volunteer fire
department, which not only serves the town, but a very large area of the municipality. Weaknesses were also
identified and included an undeveloped waterfront, limitation on town boundaries limiting potential for
growth and a few other items which certainly include a need for the completion of Highway No. 101, the four
laning, from the City of Halifax and metropolitan area. That highway is of great importance for any future
development in the Town of Windsor because we at the present time in Hants West are very much lacking
in industry. Now things are taking place. As a matter of fact, tomorrow the Premier and the Minister of the
Economic Renewal Agency and I believe my colleague from Hants East and myself will be taking part I
should say, in the opening I presume the Premier will be doing the opening but certainly I will be in
attendance at the opening of a fine chemicals plant in the Town of Windsor. This is certainly an industry that
we have pursued for many years and it has finally come to fruition and it is the first fine chemical plant in
Canada and we look forward to that plant being in operation.



The number of people who will be employed initially is rather small, but hopefully, over the years
as they become larger the number of workers will increase and possibly by the year 2000 we will have 200
people, at least that is the aim, employed at that chemicals plant.



I am delighted this evening to have the opportunity to speak about the Town of Windsor and I am
delighted to advise all members that the Town of Windsor is pulling itself up by its own bootstraps and,
hopefully, will enter the year 2000 in as great shape as it was when it entered the year 1900. Thank you, Mr.
Speaker.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury.



MR. RAYMOND WHITE: Mr. Speaker, first of all, it is obvious the pride that the member for Hants
West has in the accomplishments of his community. The resolution as presented by the member for Pictou
Centre does provide an opportunity for us to highlight not only our communities but in the intent of the
resolution what assistance and technical advice is available.



Although the resolution says we should encourage communities to be involved, many of the
communities throughout Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury have taken a proactive role in community economic
development. Just a profile, Mr. Speaker, of the constituency of Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury; it consists
of six municipal councils, two waterfront development commissions and earlier this week the Minister of
Economic Renewal was in Port Hawkesbury, and announced funding for their waterfront project to the tune
of $150,000. One of the studies that will be done with that community is to identify how tourism can be linked
with that waterfront development and how it can reflect the history and the nature of the community of Port
Hawkesbury.



This goes back to a saying, Mr. Speaker, when you talk about community economic development,
that the local people know where the thin ice is. That means that when you come to economic planning,
economic development, regardless of what community in Nova Scotia, the community input is important.



Within the area of Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury, we have two waterfront corporations. That is
because two of those communities have identified that their future development is linked with their historic
access to the sea. The two I refer to are the Town of Port Hawkesbury, which I just mentioned, and the Town
of Canso, which bills itself as the oldest fishing port in the Maritimes.



Now because there are so many people who have committed so much of their time to community
economic development, I think it is important to note that communities such as Mulgrave have formed an
action committee. Most of the councils have their own development committees and we have in the Strait area
a new Regional Development Commission. That commission came forward through regional municipal
cooperation. The Municipalities of the Towns of Mulgrave and Port Hawkesbury, the Counties of Inverness
and Richmond, realized that if there is to be any meaningful economic development, they can’t go it alone.
They have to look at a regional approach to economic development. Each of those communities would identify
its role and support each other.



In the past throughout Nova Scotia communities have competed and, because of that competition,
very often they were the losers. But the fact is that more and more areas are coming together and saying let’s
develop on our strengths. In Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury we also have the Business Development Centre,
a Community Futures Committee and also what is called the Eastern Guysborough County Community
Futures Subcommittee.



Presently within the Guysborough area a regional development authority is being formed. You may
ask, why list all those names, all those agencies? It is just to prove that throughout Guysborough-Port
Hawkesbury and I would say, Mr. Speaker, throughout Nova Scotia, the aim for economic development and
long-term growth is one that is supported by many people. I think we have to pay tribute to the many Nova
Scotians who so freely give their time to develop their communities. Without that type of commitment, much
of the growth that we see happening would not be possible.



Some of the services that are provided through regional development commissions are strategic
planning, business counselling and community economic development. I want to mention a few examples
within my constituency which I think will reflect what is happening throughout Nova Scotia. The Town of
Mulgrave, through working with the Community Futures Committee and the Regional Development
Corporation, has developed a strategic plan. That is based on community input, looking at the needs of that
community and the direction that it wishes to go.



In Inverness and Isle Madame they have developed a strategic plan that recognizes the change in the
fishery and what direction that community would want to go. Under the present TAGS program, many
communities are looking at how can we take advantage of those programs to put in the necessary
infrastructure to help us make our communities more attractive.



[6:15 p.m.]



Other services are provided by these agencies to work with communities so when we reflect back on
the resolution encouraging communities to get involved, I believe the communities are doing that and there
are resources but one of the important things is for the community to go out and find out what resources are
there and to use the existing agencies.



When the community that I used to represent as mayor started to look at community economic
development, we went to other communities. We went to Dartmouth, we met with their industrial commission.
They came to our community and indicated things we should do. What I have found over the years, Mr.
Speaker, is that communities are now sharing information. Economic development agencies are getting
together to pool their resources and to help each other learn in a cooperative way. In many regions, the
concept that if something comes to one area it is not going to affect the other is passing away and communities
are realizing whatever we can build on one adds to the strength of the total group.



Community economic development can be provided through regional development commissions. One
of their mandates, Mr. Speaker, is to meet with the communities, provide not only financial assistance but
technical expertise to help a community identify what is its strength. In the past, one of the problems with
community economic development has been that very often the ideas came from without and they did not
reflect the needs and the direction and the wishes that a particular community wished to develop for its future.



I can start from one end of Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury and work my way to the other and indicate
some examples. Most members have heard of Sherbrooke Village, the historic nature and beauty of that area.
In Sherbrooke Village we have the historic village itself, we have Liscombe Lodge, and the community and
they have decided it is time, through a chamber of commerce, to sit down and work cooperatively toward the
development of that community.



The historical fishing community of Port Bickerton has decided that tourism will be the route that
they wish to explore as one of the planks in their economic development. We can move along through
Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury to different areas that are looking at opportunities to broaden the base.



Many of the communities liken community economic development, Mr. Speaker, to a puzzle. As they
can identify pieces to strengthen the economic base, it will indeed strengthen the community.



Throughout Guysborough County, Mr. Speaker, with the help of the Community Futures Committee,
they have developed a comprehensive tourism strategy which recognizes the strengths of particular parts of
the county. They are now mutually supporting each other in trying to find funding and ways to see these
projects happen.



One of the things that has been identified is the future role of eco-tourism. Through regional
meetings there has been public input which indicates that that is one route that that area wishes to go. The
future with that is unlimited.



Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to note that when we talk about technical advice that some of the
areas have shown their own initiative. I can think of a couple of companies, for example, one called TGIF
Consulting, that is now located in Canso but not looking at its location as a hindrance but as an opportunity
because it is now part of the information highway network and communicates all through North America on
ideas that will affect not only that business but the community. For example, a small company started up
called Waterline Science and Graphics Concepts and they wanted to find out what is being done in other
companies and through the information network, they contacted 200 companies that are in that same business
and have been able to find out new products they could develop.



Throughout Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury, small business cannot be isolated from the development
of communities, Mr. Speaker, and I think it is important to note that small community workshops have been
held. Communities have developed videos, promotional pamphlets and I can say, working with the different
development agencies - ACOA, the Business Development Centre - economic planning is alive and well. I
think each of those realize it is a challenge. The answers will not happen overnight but those answers will be
more meaningful based on the fact that there is community input, the local communities are involved and we
do have a wealth of volunteers who so freely give their time because they wish to make their communities a
better place and this a better province.



I want to salute the member for bringing forth this resolution, to give us an opportunity to indicate
that in our areas economic development is a challenge, communities are looking at the opportunities and we
as a government and as a province must support those initiatives and work with those communities to help
them to diversify their economies. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.



MR. JOHN HOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hadn’t planned initially to take part in the debate. I have had a
few opportunities to speak for some time already today but based on the topic and so on that was brought
forward, I thought that I would like to enter into the debate and add my two cents worth in support of a lot
of the ideas that have been raised by members who have spoken so far.



Mr. Speaker, one of the biggest obstacles that we often have when we are talking about community
economic development and so on is attitude. What I am getting at here is that we often throw up our hands
and we say, well, what can we do? We talk about the lost jobs and about the lost opportunities. We often
cannot come together collectively or we don’t have all the pieces to be able to put together the ideas that
hopefully can turn things around.



We do live in a beautiful province. We have to recognize that we have a number of tremendous
opportunities here and that we are living in a changing time. We live in a time, we are post-industrial, really,
as the previous speaker said when he was talking about the information highway. The mover of the resolution,
the member for Hants West was talking about his community and a lot of the attractive features that are there.



Mr. Speaker, businesses and industries are now looking for at least the kind of businesses that I
would hope that we would want to attract, those are the ones that are going to provide long-term community-based jobs, good living wages, not just only the short part-time jobs. A lot of those kinds of jobs today are no
longer dependent upon being located in the downtown core of a huge industrial city. They are the kinds of
jobs, they are the kinds of businesses that can be spread across many areas of our beautiful province. Quite
honestly, now, an awful lot of the things that will help to attract a business is not all the glitter and the glitz
of the high-rise buildings but it is more a quality of life, the kinds of things that we, in our province, have a
great deal to offer.



Mr. Speaker, we have excellent opportunities and examples and the member for Canso-Port
Hawkesbury (Interruption) Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury, I am too used to dealing with the former mayor
in his capacity as Mayor of Canso, but the member for Guysborough-Port Hawkesbury talked about the
initiatives and the efforts that are being made within his community and within his constituency.



Certainly, within the community of Sackville, as well, we do have a community economic
development body that was set up trying to look at, and doing the same kinds of things, although the
communities can be very different, just as Inverness and Windsor and all the different communities can be
different, but what we all have within our communities are strength and opportunities.



What we have to try to do and the strongest one, I would suggest, that we have are the people. We
have to find ways to facilitate bringing those people who have the ideas together and to be sharing. Where
ideas do exist and opportunities do exist, sometimes that means providing some modest help. I don’t just mean
giving grants and giving huge amounts of monies to come from away businesses and industries to supposedly
locate there until they can find somebody else when their particular grant has run out, who will give them
more money to go and locate somewhere else in another province or another country, Mr. Speaker.



I am talking about trying to provide maybe cooperatively, like a cooperative incubator mall or
something where if it is manufacturing or production where they can help to set up or try to facilitate, if
somebody has an idea, somebody has a product, find ways so that we can help to develop and to research and
to market that kind of product.



We have to be starting to look at Nova Scotia as a full community. Each and every one of our parts,
every part of our province, of our body has to be well and has to be strong. We have to be thinking about
diversifying. I say to the minister, and this is a topic that has been raised before in this House and some people
would say, well, why would an MLA from metro even be suggesting, for example, maybe the diversification
or the decentralization of jobs, government services jobs, like the places like in Cape Breton and elsewhere.



Mr. Speaker, if we can diversify, if we can decentralize where some of those jobs are they will have
a spinoff effect in those communities and help to strengthen them, to help to strengthen their employment in
other areas as well. I would say that certainly this can’t be done in a callous, uncaring way and there would
have to be negotiations and discussions going on with the representatives of the unions of the workers
involved but there were many people, I am sure, working in the Public Service of Nova Scotia living in
Halifax from Cape Breton who would love to be able to be doing their job home, in Cape Breton.



How many people do you know from Cape Breton, who don’t love Cape Breton and wouldn’t want
to be able to be in Cape Breton? You can take the Cape Bretoner out of Cape Breton but you can’t take Cape
Breton out of the Cape Bretoner, Mr. Speaker. We have to look at ways in which government can assist. One
of the key and fundamental things, whether we are talking about the Town of Canso or Guysborough or the
whole county, or whether we are talking about Sackville or the Valley, one of the key elements is that we have
to try to develop to the best of our ability our human resources because we know that we are living in a
knowledge-based society and we have to be concentrating our efforts on education and training. That means
for the young people who are currently in our education system, whether they be living in Canso or
Guysborough, Mr. Chairman, or Mr. Speaker, my habits are hard to break and I have been saying that so often
during the committee stage it is hard to get back to the proper language that we are now out of the committee
and should be referring to yourself as Speaker, Mr. Speaker, but I will try.



We have to be working and doing all that we possibly can to be enhancing the education and training
opportunities for our young people because if we don’t do that then our young people will not have the skills
and our population will not have the skills that will be required to attract those kinds of businesses that we
want here in Nova Scotia to locate here in Nova Scotia. There is nothing wrong with physical, manual work
that is proud work, it is decent work, it is good work.



So many of the jobs that had existed only 10, 20, 30 years ago are now being eliminated as a result
of automation and new technologies. We have to be developing our communities and assisting our
communities to develop programs and educational programs and training that will meet the community needs
that have been identified within those communities and that may mean in some cases offering programs and
services whether they be in a community school or through a community school outreach program or even
through the public system. It doesn’t even mean necessarily building new structures. The same kind of
program could be offered in Yarmouth, for example, and offered in Canso and that could be done now even
with using the information highway and technology, a lot of the expert advice and could be offered in a church
basement or in a school in the evening or at times when it is not in use or in an empty classroom during the
day time.



We have all kinds of opportunities and I guess what I am getting at because the topic that was up for
debate this evening was, and although the wording isn’t totally exactly correct, technology to assist small
businesses or small towns develop economic plans. It is not necessarily technology that is needed to help to
develop the plans. What I guess I am trying to get at, what we need is to somehow or other to provide the
facilitators, to provide the people within the communities with an opportunity to come together, with an
opportunity to do some brainstorming and to think out, let’s do an inventory, what are the opportunities, what
kinds of ideas do we have that can help our community to maintain and to develop jobs and therefore to
maintain the quality of life in rural Nova Scotia.



I am sure the member for Cape Breton West could get up and talk about a lot of the advantages or
opportunities that he can see, for example, in Louisbourg and other areas, they are there.



MR. SPEAKER: The time has expired.



MR. HOLM: Mr. Speaker, it is the kind of topic that certainly we could spend a great deal of time
on and maybe I will come back to it or have an opportunity at a future day. Thank you.



MR. SPEAKER: The time allotted for the Adjournment debate has expired. The House will now
revert to the Committee of the Whole House on Bills.



[6:30 p.m. The House resolved itself into a CWH on Bills with Deputy Speaker Mr. Gerald O’Malley
in the Chair.]



[7:58 p.m. CWH on Bills rose and the House reconvened. Mr. Speaker, Hon. Paul MacEwan,
resumed the Chair.]



MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole House on Bills reports:



THE CLERK: That the committee has met and made some progress and begs leave to sit again.



MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



The honourable Deputy Government House Leader.



MR. ALLISTER SURETTE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the members of the House that we
will sit between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. tomorrow. Following the daily routine we will be in
Committee of the Whole House on Bills on Bill No. 120.



I move that we adjourn until 8:00 a.m. tomorrow.



MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that the House do now rise to meet again tomorrow morning at the
hour of 8:00 a.m.



The motion is carried.



[The House rose at 7:59 p.m.]