Assemblée Législative de la Nouvelle-Écosse

Les travaux de la Chambre ont repris le
21 septembre 2017
























HALIFAX, TUESDAY, JANUARY 10, 1995



Fifty-sixth General Assembly



Second Session



12:00 P.M.



SPEAKER



Hon. Paul MacEwan



DEPUTY SPEAKER



Mr. Gerald O’Malley






MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. We will begin this afternoon’s proceedings now.



The daily routine.



PRESENTING AND READING PETITIONS



PRESENTING REPORTS OF COMMITTEES



TABLING REPORTS, REGULATIONS AND OTHER PAPERS



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Premier.



HON. JOHN SAVAGE (The Premier): Mr. Speaker, this is a tabling of a request of business
promotion activities in Korea. I am tabling them.



MR. SPEAKER: The report is tabled.



STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS



GOVERNMENT NOTICES OF MOTION



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Human Resources.



RESOLUTION NO. 1427



HON. ELEANOR NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



6059

 

Whereas 300 figure skaters from across Canada will be participating in the Royal Bank Canadian
Figure Skating Championships from January 11th to January 15th in Halifax and Dartmouth; and



Whereas many Nova Scotians volunteer their efforts and their time behind the scenes to ensure this
event is a success; and



Whereas Nova Scotia skaters, Gina Waller of Durnham, Pictou County; Michael and Meagan
Slaunwhite of Greenwood; and Heidi Clattenburg of Liverpool will be representing this province at the
championship;



Therefore be it resolved that this House welcome the participants in the national championships to
Nova Scotia, acknowledge the contribution of the volunteers; and extend our best wishes to the Nova Scotia
skaters competing in this national event.



Mr. Speaker, I ask for waiver of notice.



MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried. (Applause)



INTRODUCTION OF BILLS



Bill No. 141 - Entitled an Act to Amend Chapter 90 of the Acts of 1966. The Halifax
Superannuation Act. (Mr. Gerald Fogarty)



MR. SPEAKER: Ordered that this bill be read a second time on a future day.



NOTICES OF MOTION



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Opposition.



RESOLUTION NO. 1428



MR. TERENCE DONAHOE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the fishing boat of a Sambro man was washed ashore yesterday without any trace of the
fisherman; and



Whereas every year the sometimes treacherous and stormy November to May lobster season brings
a heightened sense of the dangers that beset Nova Scotia’s fishermen as they carry out the everyday duties of
their livelihood; and



Whereas the search team for Mr. Henneberry has not lost hope for the missing man who had set out
alone to set traps yesterday;



Therefore be it resolved that the members of this House express their sincere hope for success in the
search and rescue efforts for the missing fishermen as the search continues today.



I would ask for waiver of notice, Mr. Speaker.



MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed that notice be waived?



It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.



RESOLUTION NO. 1429



MR. JOHN HOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption
of the following resolution:



Whereas Nova Scotians have been told that the Chief of Protocol was selected by the Deputy Minister
to the Premier, by the Human Resources Department, and by the Premier; and



Whereas these explanations sound more like an old quiz show than a responsible government, since
only one story can be true and the other two are imposters; and



Whereas Nova Scotians can see for themselves that the Premier has no anti-patronage clothes, and
that the Liberals are ignoring any fairness in government policies they may have introduced;



Therefore be it resolved that a government which looks like the Tories, sounds like the Tories and
acts like the Tories might as well rename themselves the Liberal Conservatives and start making
straightforward patronage appointments, if the alternative is charades like the Chief of Protocol selection.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.



RESOLUTION NO. 1430



MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the Premier has no qualms in appointing high-priced help to save his own bacon; and



Whereas the high-priced help must ensure the Premier does not become too smoky-flavoured for
Liberal delegates when it comes time for the Liberal leadership review on the weekend of July 7th and July
8th; and



Whereas despite trying to save his own bacon through pork-barrelling antics, the Premier and MLAs
from Dartmouth are not interested in having a bite of bacon over breakfast with the mayor and members of
Dartmouth City Council to discuss metro amalgamation;



Therefore be it resolved that the Premier and his Cabinet share some bacon over breakfast with
Dartmouth City Council and discuss metro amalgamation instead of attempting to save his bacon leading up
to the July leadership review.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Halifax Bedford Basin.



RESOLUTION NO. 1431



MR. GERALD FOGARTY: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the Native Education Counselling Centre located on the Dalhousie University Campus
provides a home away from home for native students who are attending university or community college; and



Whereas the metro area has approximately 100 native students from across Nova Scotia and as far
away as British Columbia; and



Whereas the Native Education Counselling Centre provides emotional, academic and personal
support to native students who often find themselves alienated in their new environment;



Therefore be it resolved that this House of Assembly applaud the creative activity of the Native
Education Counselling Centre in offering valuable support to native students from far and near.



Mr. Speaker, I would request waiver of notice.



MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver of notice which requires unanimous consent.



Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.



RESOLUTION NO. 1432



MS. ALEXA MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move
the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the Premier’s new, high-priced advisors, must be finding that no one in Nova Scotia is eager
to have their photograph taken with their client, the Premier; and



Whereas these advisors are earning their keep by offering a reception and free private luncheon for
out-of-province skater celebrities, with coat-tails long enough for this Premier, then urging media to capture
the photo op; and



Whereas skating stars of the past and present are, undoubtedly, of greatest photographic interest on
or near the ice, performing or evaluating their athletic successors’ skills and artistic ability;



Therefore be it resolved that if anyone deserves a free lunch from this government, it is surely long-suffering taxpayers and public servants who have endured every betrayal and setback during the last 18
months.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable Leader of the Opposition.



RESOLUTION NO. 1433



MR. TERENCE DONAHOE: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas the salary of the job titled “Premier’s Chief of Staff” has jumped an incredible $36,000 in
one year; and



Whereas the Halifax Chronicle-Herald editorial expressed concern in today’s edition that the
Premier’s latest Chief of Staff had better succeed because we can’t afford to pay her successor; and



Whereas despite this whopping pay increase for the Premier’s Chief of Staff and the dishing out of
$117,000 in severance pay to a former Deputy Minister of Health and a former communications director, the
Premier and his government continue to appear incompetent and off track;



Therefore be it resolved that before any additional decisions are made on high-priced help for the
Premier and his ministers, the government very carefully examine its own agenda and stop blaming their
problems on Nova Scotia’s Public Service.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Bedford-Fall River.



RESOLUTION NO. 1434



MRS. FRANCENE COSMAN: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move
the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas in 1994 the Town of Bedford showed the highest growth rate in residential and commercial
taxable assessments for the metro area; and



Whereas the gains experienced by the Town of Bedford were due to actual growth in new residential
and commercial construction activity in the town; and



Whereas the Town of Bedford is recognized across the entire country as a most attractive community
in which to locate for residential living and business activity;



Therefore be it resolved that this House extend its congratulations to the citizens of the Town of
Bedford for the many achievements they have accomplished throughout the past year.



Mr. Speaker, I would request waiver of notice.



MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver of notice which requires unanimous consent.



Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable member for Eastern Shore.



RESOLUTION NO. 1435



MR. KEITH COLWELL: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas in the spring session last year the Minister of Housing and Consumer Affairs had the
foresight to introduce legislation in this House banning the practice of negative billing in Nova Scotia; and



Whereas this legislation is currently protecting the consumers of Nova Scotia from tremendous
turmoil that is being caused across this country by the practice of negative billing; and



Whereas Nova Scotia’s legislation against negative billing is a model for the rest of the country;



Therefore be it resolved that this House commend the Minister of Housing and Consumer Affairs
and his department for the tremendous foresight exercised in introducing legislation to ban negative billing.



Mr. Speaker, I would ask for waiver of notice.



MR. SPEAKER: There has been a request for waiver of notice which requires unanimous consent.



Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.



RESOLUTION NO. 1436



MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas Lloyd Axworthy and the federal Liberals have used every opportunity to create the
impression that unemployment insurance has destroyed the work ethic in Atlantic Canada; and



Whereas the federal Liberals have proposed that those who cannot maintain steady employment for
at least three years running don’t deserve the same support and assistance as other Canadians; and



Whereas yesterday 500 Cape Bretoners who came out for 33 fairly miserable jobs, demonstrated a
greater desire to work than even (Interruptions)



MR. SPEAKER: Possibly the word miserable could be deleted, it seems to be offensive.
(Interruptions)



MR. CHISHOLM: Well, Mr. Speaker, if it is a question of what the government members don’t find
acceptable, I think there are a lot of things said in here that they are not going to find acceptable. But if I may
be allowed to continue . . .



MR. SPEAKER: Order please, the honourable member has the floor.



[12:15 p.m.]



MR. CHISHOLM: Whereas yesterday, 500 Cape Bretoners who came out for 33 fairly miserable jobs
demonstrated a greater desire to work than even the 15,000 who lined up for 750 good GM jobs in Oshawa,
Ontario;



Therefore be it resolved that this House urges the federal government to reconsider any plan to
provide lower support or otherwise discriminate against Canadians who, through no fault of their own, cannot
find steady work.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.



RESOLUTION NO. 1437



MS. ALEXA MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move
the adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas a Liberal Party householder distributed throughout the Cole Harbour, Preston and
Dartmouth areas claimed that the Sydney casino will be, ” . . . based upon similar operations in British
Columbia.”; and



Whereas charity casinos in British Columbia keep their operating expenses at 10 per cent and provide
50 per cent of all profits to charities; and



Whereas Sydney’s operating costs will be almost 50 per cent, yet charities will still be given less than
a third of the remaining profit;



Therefore be it resolved that the six Dartmouth-side MLAs should distribute an apology and a
correction, so their constituents are not further misinformed as to this government’s intentions.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.



RESOLUTION NO. 1438



MR. JOHN HOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the adoption
of the following resolution:



Whereas it will soon be six months since the Minister of Finance assured Cape Bretoners that this
government was about to start decentralization of jobs; and



Whereas this week, the Minister of Finance simply states that it is very, very difficult to improve
employment in Cape Breton; and



Whereas Cape Bretoners demonstrated their desperation yesterday when 500 applied for 33 low-paid,
12 week jobs at the Housing Authority;



Therefore be it resolved that the government should respond to Cape Bretoners’ desperate search for
secure jobs by immediately sitting down with the Nova Scotia Government Employees Union to discuss how
decentralization can be implemented humanely and effectively, to benefit Cape Breton.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.



RESOLUTION NO. 1439



MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas United Mine Workers of America representatives will be meeting with the federal minister
responsible for Devco in six days’ time; and



Whereas this House has urged the federal government to open the Donkin mine and to cooperate with
the UMW on means of improving management and production at Devco; and



Whereas the survival of one of Nova Scotia’s largest industries depends upon both federal coal policy
and upon healthy labour relations;



Therefore be it resolved that this House affirms its interest and support for the United Mine Workers
of America objective of seeking agreement for the opening of the Donkin mine and better management of
Devco, when the UMW meet federal Minister John Manley on January 16th.



Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask for waiver of notice.



MR. SPEAKER: There is a request for waiver of notice which requires unanimous consent.



Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.



The motion is carried.



The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.



RESOLUTION NO. 1440



MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move the
adoption of the following resolution:



Whereas federal Finance Minister Paul Martin seems poised to take a chapter from the book of Nova
Scotia Finance Minister Bernard Boudreau and to increase taxes; and



Whereas Mr. Martin is reported to be considering range of tax measures including increases in
gasoline taxes, higher corporate taxes, a new lottery tax and, worst of all, another surtax on personal and
business income; and



Whereas Liberal Governments in Ottawa and Nova Scotia seem to forget that citizens are fed up with
higher taxes and are resorting to the underground economy to survive;



Therefore be it resolved that the Premier of Nova Scotia and the Minister of Finance make a strong
public statement to convince federal Finance Minister Paul Martin that tax increases are simply not an option
for over-taxed Nova Scotians and Canadians.



MR. SPEAKER: The notice is tabled.



I wish to advise the House that the Clerk has conducted a draw for the Adjournment debate at 6:00
p.m. this evening. The winner is the honourable member for Pictou Centre. In the event that he may not be
here, the second place submission today is won by the honourable member for Hants West, both of whom have
submitted the same topic and it reads:



Therefore be it resolved that tax hikes hurt economic recovery.



So, we will be hearing on that matter at 6:00 p.m.



Is there any additional business to come before the House under the heading of the daily routine? If
not, we will advance to Orders of the Day, the time now being 12:20 p.m. The Oral Question Period today
will run for one hour, that is until 1:20 p.m.



ORDERS OF THE DAY



ORAL QUESTIONS PUT BY MEMBERS



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Opposition.



HUMAN RES. - CHIEF OF PROTOCOL: APPOINTMENT - RECOMMENDATION



MR. TERENCE DONAHOE: My question, Mr. Speaker, is for the Minister of Human Resources.
Last Thursday, in answer to my question as to who it was who made the decision not to go with the top
candidate for the job of Chief of Protocol, the minister said, “The deputy minister ultimately responsible for
that hiring chose to go”, that was a reference, I believe, to Deputy Minister Bill MacDonald, “under his
responsibility, to the second place candidate because it was an affirmative action candidate, a woman.”.



The minister then, Mr. Speaker, went on to say, again a reference to Deputy Minister Bill
MacDonald, the Deputy Minister to the Premier, had written to the deputy minister of Human Resources to
explain why he had made that decision. I ask the Minister of Human Resources, today, if she will, before the
end of Question Period, table the document wherein the Deputy Minister to the Premier explained why he did
not hire the top candidate?



HON. ELEANOR NORRIE: I can table that, either today or at a future date.



MR. DONAHOE: Well, some of my colleagues did not hear it. She said, I think, Mr. Speaker, that
she could table it today or on a future date. If she could table it today, it would be appreciated if she could
make a call and have it tabled immediately.



By way of supplementary, may I, again, by way of question to the same minister, point out that the
Premier, Mr. Speaker, has, in fact, said that having made some inquiries and having clarified the situation,
as I think was his word, he has clarified that his Deputy Minister, Bill MacDonald, the deputy minister to
whom the Minister of Human Resources referred and which deputy minister the Minister of Human Resources
said made the decision, the Premier says that that deputy minister did not make the final decision and that
it was, in fact, the Department of Human Resources that made the final decision.



Given, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Human Resources, that this appears to be a complete
contradiction of what the minister’s statement was last week, will the minister now tell Nova Scotians just
exactly who it was that did make the decision to hire the person who ultimately was chosen?



MRS. NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, the decision to hire the Chief of Protocol was made on
recommendation by the Deputy Minister of the Premier’s Office. It came back to the Department of Human
Resources so that the role that we generally play in all hiring takes place, where decisions are made on
compensation and other details that are to be ironed out and that is when it came back to the Department of
Human Resources. I don’t see any problem with that in contrast to what I said last week.



MR. DONAHOE: Well, by way of final supplementary, for the moment, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister
of Human Resources, the Chief of Protocol position, I understand, is listed as an MCP22 position and that
position has a salary range of $47,123 to $61,325. Given that the salaries of all public servants is public
information, I would ask that the minister tell us now, in this House, just what is the salary of the Chief of
Protocol, as settled upon after it came back to her department, as she has just now described?



MRS. NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, I believe that is still within the department and as soon as it is
available, I will table it.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable minister, perhaps, might repeat the answer, the Leader of the
Opposition did not hear it.



MRS. NORRIE: That is being handled in the Department of Human Resources, as I have stated
earlier and when it is available, I will definitely table it.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party.



HUMAN RES. - CHIEF OF PROTOCOL: APPOINTMENT - RECOMMENDATION



MR. JOHN HOLM: Mr. Speaker, if I heard the minister correctly earlier, my first question is through
you, sir, to the Minister of Human Resources. She is confirming her story of last week, as opposed to the story
given by the Premier to the media this past weekend. In other words, that it was the Premier’s Office that
made the final recommendation.



Last week, also, in this House, the minister said on Thursday, January 5th, that all of the five finalists
have been highly qualified and that some had come recommended, some by sitting MLAs. So obviously, the
minister knows who the sitting MLAs were who made recommendations. My question to the minister is quite
simply, was the Premier one of the sitting MLAs who made a recommendation for one of the candidates and,
if so, who did the Premier recommend?



MR. SPEAKER: I don’t know that that type of question is proper. It would deal, surely, with
confidential matters. The honourable minister can respond but I hesitate to allow the question.



HON. ELEANOR NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, that is a confidential matter having to do with personnel.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the New Democratic Party, on a new question.



HUMAN RES. - CHIEF OF PROTOCOL: PREMIER - CONSULTATION



MR. JOHN HOLM: Mr. Speaker, I am puzzled by the help that you provided to the member and I
would like some time at a future date to find out maybe why that would be confidential information, the
answer, based on the suggestion you had given, of course, repeated by the minister.



I would like to direct my next question, then, through you to the Premier. Mr. Speaker, the Chief of
Protocol’s Office, of course, falls under the auspices of the Office of the Premier and we know that it was the
Premier’s deputy who made the recommendation to the Minister of Human Resources. Normal protocol, of
course, would have it that the Premier would be consulted about those who are hired for such important
positions.



My question to the Premier is quite simply this, did your deputy minister consult, ask you opinion
and/or inform you as to who the deputy was going to be recommending to Human Resources for this position
before the recommendation was actually made. Were you consulted and asked for an opinion before that
recommendation was made?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, no.



MR. HOLM: Well, Mr. Speaker, maybe we can see that the new chief of staff for the Premier’s Office
certainly has their work cut out for them.



My last question in this sequence I would like to direct to the Minister of Human Resources again.
I have gone through the CV for Patricia Hyland, Mr. Speaker, and I would be happy to table it for all
members. We know what a losing candidate looks like on paper - somebody who, according to the MP for
Annapolis Valley-Hants, is so good that they can even make a Liberal Government and the Liberal Party in
government look good and be long-lasting.



I would like to ask the minister, since we know what a losing candidate’s CV looks like but we do
not know how the members were rated, those final candidates, will she agree to provide a blank, point by point
rating of the candidates. If it is blank, that would leave out the names of the individuals so it will not violate
any confidence. Will the minister agree to provide that blank, point by point rating of those candidates so that
Nova Scotians can see what a winning candidate looks like in terms of qualifications and experience
compared to a losing candidate?



HON. ELEANOR NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, I went through this in great detail in last Question Period.
When this job became vacant, there was a fair and open competition. There were 59 people who applied for
the job, five people were short-listed and we have hired a candidate who is very qualified for the job, using
the Affirmative Action Program, and I am very pleased to announce that we now have in place a Protocol
Officer who will do a good job for this province and I will supply no further information.



MR. HOLM: I would love to take it, Mr. Speaker, but quite honestly, I have had my three questions
already.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Opposition.



HUMAN RES. - PREMIER’S OFFICE: APPOINTMENTS - INPUT



MR. TERENCE DONAHOE: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. The Premier has just a
moment ago indicated that he had no involvement in this hiring process, the Chief of Protocol hiring process.
I would assume from that that he did not know who the applicants were. He was not consulted when the
process was at the short-list stage and so on.



There are many positions, Mr. Speaker, may I say to the Premier through you, within the Premier’s
Office and under the jurisdiction of the Premier. I wonder if the Premier can tell Nova Scotians whether all
staff hired by his office had been chosen by the Department of Human Resources with no input from him, with
no input from the Premier?



[12:30 p.m.]



THE PREMIER: I am not sure I understand the question. Is he implying that my chief of staff was
chosen without input from me?



MR. DONAHOE: My clarification is that the Premier just a moment ago said that in relation to the
Chief of Potocol Office, his hands are clean. He had no knowledge, he wasn’t in it, he wasn’t consulted, he
didn’t offer recommendations, he didn’t do nothing about nothing. My question to him was simply this, is the
Premier saying that that is the case with all the staff hired in his office and that all of the staff hired in his
office have, in fact, been chosen by the Department of Human Resources without input from the Premier?



THE PREMIER: No, Mr. Speaker.



MR. DONAHOE: I presumed that that would be the answer and I presume that the Premier is going
to say to me now when I put the question to him that he had a hand in the selection of the hiring of Bob
MacKay, Ms. Heather Robertson and Mr. David Harrigan. If that is the case and they report directly to the
Premier, I wonder if he would explain to me and to all Nova Scotians why it is that he would now, in relation
to the Chief of Potocol Office who reports directly to him and his office, have this so-called hands-off
approach in relation to that particular competition?



THE PREMIER: The Protocol Office was formerly in the Department of Tourism. It was only moved
to my department six months ago, something like that, I don’t know the exact time. That was a decision made
by government to move it back into the Premier’s Office. I have not had a lot to do with the personnel there
and I did not regard it in the same light as I would my chief of staff or a deputy minister.



MR. DONAHOE: So, I take it then that the Premier is saying that notwithstanding the fact that, just
as an example, one of the most important events in the history of this city, namely the G-7 Summit, is coming
to the Province of Nova Scotia with the highest level of political dignitaries from around the world to descend
upon the City of Halifax, that even an event of that kind of nature and magnitude wouldn’t prompt him to
think that he would want to know that the very best and first recommended candidate for a Chief of Protocol
would be the person chosen and even that reality didn’t twig to the Premier that he would want to have some
input into the selection of the Chief of Protocol?



THE PREMIER: The member opposite is operating under a delusion that this, in fact, is a provincial
matter. The G-7 is a federal issue: the Protocol Office and the Prime Minister’s Office is working closely,
presumably, with the arrangements for visiting dignitaries. The opportunity for Nova Scotia lies in the
portrayal of our province as a good place in which to do business, in which to do tourism. The protocol
requirements will be attended to by the Protocol Office of the federal government.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings West.



HEALTH - CLINIC FEES: CORRES. (HEALTH [CAN.] MIN.) - RESPOND



MR. GEORGE MOODY: My question is for the Minister of Health. I assume that he received a copy
from the federal Health Minister, the one that she released, I think, last week, in that the federal minister talks
about the deadline for all provinces to cover clinic fees for health services by October 15th or have these fees
taken from the provinces’ transfer payments. I would ask the minister if he has yet to respond to the federal
Health Minister’s letter regarding both those clinics and such fees?



HON. RONALD STEWART: Mr. Speaker, no, our staff is examining the letter closely. We will be
preparing a response and I appreciate very much the honourable gentleman bringing this to our attention and
asking the question.



MR. MOODY: The federal Health Minister indicated that in the September meeting of all the
ministers, including herself, at the federal-provincial meeting, that every minister except Alberta’s Health
Minister, I believe, agreed to take whatever steps were required to regulate private clinic developments in their
province. I would ask the minister if he has done anything since the September meeting regarding regulations
that might affect private clinics in the Province of Nova Scotia?



DR. STEWART: Again, Mr. Speaker, we have, in our department, been looking very closely at the
issue of private clinics. We have taken the lead, in the minister’s meeting, for example, in bringing this to the
attention of the conference. We took a lead in opposing the development and unregulated nature of the
developments in other jurisdictions. We will continue to examine that very closely.



MR. MOODY: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his answer. There are some immediate concerns
and that is our abortion clinics, physiotherapy clinics and smaller clinics such as the one recently set up in
the Wolfville hospital where patients were to pay a cost, not the physician fee but other costs that were
involved. I would ask the minister since the province does not currently cover the clinic costs of abortions at
the Morgentaler clinic but does cover the physician fees, in order to comply with the federal minister’s letter,
does the minister plan to cover all of the costs of the Morgentaler clinic by the deadline of October 15, 1995?



DR. STEWART: Again, Mr. Speaker, we are examining all issues related to this fact, our policy will
not change. We do, of course, fund medically necessary services under the definition that we have supported
in this province. We will continue to do that. There will be no support of private clinics operating separate
from our publicly-funded system in keeping with the Canada Health Act recommendations.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings West, on a new question.



HEALTH: MORGENTALER CLINIC - FUNDING



MR. GEORGE MOODY: Well, I hope I was hearing the minister correctly. I was trying to listen.
If he is going to follow the Canada Health Act and we do abortions in our hospitals and we cover the total
cost, is the minister saying that in keeping with the Canada Health Act then abortions in the Morgentaler
clinic will be totally covered like they are in the hospital? In essence, that is what the federal minister is
saying. If you are contributing to the doctor’s fees at these clinics, then it is not fair that someone go in and
pay x number of dollars because it is being subsidized by government funds and is being totally paid for at
the hospital. Is the minister saying today - because that is what the Canada Health Act says, to do away with
the two-tiered system - that all of the costs at the Morgentaler clinic then will be covered by his department?






HON. RONALD STEWART: No, I haven’t indicated there would be any change in policy, Mr.
Speaker. The issue is of extra billing and extra fee charges outside the publicly-funded system. We fund
procedures and we will continue to fund procedures, both in hospital or in a recognized clinic, as the
honourable gentleman refers to.



MR. MOODY: Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Health, we will have a two-tiered system, we will
have those who will have to pay additional fees to go to the Morgentaler clinic versus totally paid for at the
hospital. That is a two-tiered system. We have in physiotherapy, right here in this province, a two-tiered
system. If you go to the physiotherapist at the hospital it is paid for by the Province of Nova Scotia. If you have
to go and you are on a long waiting list, those who either have plans or can afford to pay, can go to the private
clinic. We have a two-tiered system. Will the minister address the two-tiered system prior to the October 15th
deadline given by the federal minister?



DR. STEWART: Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated, we have taken this very seriously in our
department and we will be looking very carefully at all aspects, particularly as it relates to medically necessary
procedures being performed outside the hospital. I have given an undertaking, and I will repeat, that we have
examined and will examine the minister’s letter very closely and we will respond well in advance of the date
she gives.



MR. MOODY: Well, the final supplementary, and we know we had a private clinic set up in
Wolfville run by physicians, I would ask the minister, the physicians’ fees were covered by the taxpayer, but
all other costs of the clinic were paid by the user, where that same person could go to an out-patients at a
hospital and have it totally paid for in another part of the province. Will the minister address those kinds of
clinics that are being set up at the Wolfville hospital by private physicians, to make sure we don’t get into the
two-tiered system that I know he opposes and we all oppose. Will the minister address that issue as well?



DR. STEWART: Yes, Mr. Speaker, thank you very much again for this question regarding the
imposition of, in this case, voluntary donation, as it was termed, in respect to the Wolfville clinic. We have
taken that arrangement very much to heart. We are looking at it very closely with a group within our
department, to see the ramifications. We again will respond promptly to the minister’s letter, in terms of
again, as the honourable gentleman opposite very properly reminds us, of the opposition of the developments
of any system outside our publicly-funded system, which we oppose very strongly in this ministry and in this
government.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.



EXCO: JUDICIAL APPOINTMENTS - AFFIRMATIVE ACTION



MS. ALEXA MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the honourable Premier. The Premier
now tells us that affirmative action has taken on such a priority that his government is no longer compelled
to accept the most qualified candidate, if a case can be made for affirmative action considerations. Yet, when
Cabinet made its most recent appointments to the 27 member provincial bench - on which there is still not
a single visible minority - Cabinet appears to have ignored the Cabinet guidelines for provincial judicial
appointments which explicitly call for affirmative action to be given active consideration.






My question to the honourable Premier is simply this, if affirmative action is so important for the
Protocol Officer - affecting virtually nobody’s life in any meaningful way -why is it not equally important in
the instance of provincial judicial appointments, which have profound implications on people’s lives?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I thank the member opposite for that question, it is a view that I have
shared. I have expressed in the past my frustration at this and, in fact, I have a meeting with the Chief Judge
on this very issue.



MS. MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, my question was not about the Premier’s frustrations. My
question is with respect to the process and what appears to be the virtual ignoring of the Cabinet guidelines
with respect to affirmative action considerations, in the instance of provincial judiciary appointments.



Perhaps we could get more specific; the Premier has defended the appointment of his Chief of
Protocol on affirmative action grounds, on the basis that the appointment was selected from a short list of
candidates. Can the Premier indicate why the Cabinet did not select a visible minority candidate from the
short list of recommendations made by the Judicial Advisory Appointment Committee, when he filled the last
two vacancies on the bench?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, my frustrations are perhaps shared by the member opposite. What I
have expressed in the past, is the method by which this is done, is what gives me some frustration. I have a
meeting arranged and I intend to follow it through. To imply that I didn’t answer the question, obviously she
didn’t hear the latter part in which I said, there is a process that I think is perhaps a better process and I am
prepared to discuss this with the Chief Judge.



MS. MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, the process for provincial judicial appointments requires that a
short list of three to six candidates be brought before Cabinet, from which they are quite free and explicitly -
according to the guidelines - encouraged to make affirmative action appointments.



Can the Premier indicate to this House how many names were on the short list, which is required
to contain a minimum of three and a maximum of six, when the last appointments were made to the
provincial bench?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I can’t answer that question without referring back to the paperwork
that was there. I am aware of the recommendations which - and I put this very carefully - do not sometimes
allow the Cabinet as much latitude as they would like. Therein lies, I suspect, the area that we will resolve
with the chairman of the committee and the Chief Judge.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.



TRANSPORT.: CONDITIONAL LICENSES - ELIGIBILITY



MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the honourable Minister of
Transportation. Some confusion has existed in the past few days over the fact of just who is eligible for a
conditional driver’s license in this province. As I understand it, the conditional driver’s license option - I see
the Minister of Natural Resources perking up there a little bit -privilege is available to those who accumulate,
perhaps, 10 points driving infractions and things of that nature.



I wonder if any exceptions are being made whatsoever to give those individuals convicted of impaired
driving a conditional license?



[12:45 p.m.]



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that conditional driver’s licenses are
permitted to be awarded by the Registrar of Motor Vehicles or the deputy in the registrar’s name for moving
violations or when points have accumulated that has necessitated the removal of one’s driving privileges for
a period of time. But I am not aware and understanding, of course, that the registrar is in a quasi-judicial
position and when it comes to his duties as the registrar, he certainly does not report to the Minister of
Transportation, those are duties that he has in accordance with the Act.



I am not aware that individuals who have been convicted of impaired driving, and have lost their
driving privileges as a result, have been given conditional licenses. I am not aware of any.



MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, my first supplementary is this. Perhaps the Minister of Transportation
has raised the issue with the Minister of Justice and perhaps I could go to the Minister of Justice. I am
concerned because I believe there have been exceptions made. To that point, I am wondering why was a
Provincial Court judge stating in Bedford Provincial Court the other day that while he was not aware that the
Registry of Motor Vehicles had authority to do so, he has been made aware that, in the past year or so, there
were two people the judge knew of who were given conditional licenses after being convicted of impaired
driving.



I wonder, perhaps, if the Minister of Justice would respond to that?



HON. WILLIAM GILLIS: Mr. Speaker, I cannot question the decisions and rulings of a Provincial
Court judge. If there is some question that the member or anybody has about the decisions and comments of
judges, it is something that should be referred to the Provincial Court judge and I am prepared to ask my
senior officials to so refer it. But maybe that the minister himself can answer the question, it has always been
my understanding that if a person is convicted on a breathalyzer, the registrar has no leeway, that there is
absolutely no leeway at all. If you are on the breathalyzer, there are no conditional licenses, only on points.



Maybe the judge was acting under a misapprehension, but I will refer the question to the Minister
of Transportation, but in so doing, I will ask my officials to check with the Chief Provincial Court Judge so
they can get it clear from their point of view.



MR. MANN: Mr. Speaker, just working from my own recollection here, and I don’t know if the
member opposite has additional information to what I have. I read about this in a newspaper article and I don’t
believe the judge specifically said that the conditional license was to individuals who had been convicted of
impaired driving, but that he knew of individuals who had received conditional licenses. I would suspect that
therein lies the confusion, because I read in the same article that the Acting Registrar of Motor Vehicles
indicated that a conditional license has never been given for an individual who has been convicted of impaired
driving.



MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, there certainly is some confusion over this particular issue. I realize,
as I am sure most members in this House do, that impaired driving is an offence under the Criminal Code and
we certainly do not support conditional licenses being issued to those types of individuals.



Just for further clarification, did the Minister of Justice indicate that he will go, in fact, and try to
clear the air regarding this matter, so to speak and, maybe, perhaps, he would report back to the House?



MR. GILLIS: Mr. Speaker, as I said, I will do what I can, but it is not my role to question the
comments of a judge on the bench or otherwise. What I said was, I would ask my officials to refer the matter
to the Chief Provincial Court Judge, Judge MacDonald and maybe he would discuss the matter with Judge
MacDougall and if they give me some feedback, I would be happy to share it with members of the House.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings North.



HUMAN RES.: MANAGEMENT PAY PLAN - DETAILS



MR. GEORGE ARCHIBALD: My question to the Minister of Human Resources is with regard to
the management classification pay plan. That is the plan by which civil servants and people in the Public
Service are paid throughout Nova Scotia. I am wondering if you could describe for the House the range for
the MCP 38?



HON. ELEANOR NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, I think that manual is within the Department of Human
Resources. I think the pay rate is between $80,000 and $98,000, in that range.



MR. ARCHIBALD: Make an offer. Mr. Speaker, it is very good that the minister does know and she
is familiar with that pay rate because that is a range of scale that has not been used for some little time.
However, we did see in a Cabinet document that was released the other day that the Clerk of the Executive
Council is going to be paid in accordance with MCP 38 and I am just wondering why that civil servant, that
public servant, is going to be remunerated at a level that seems to be almost exclusively for her because we
could not even find any numbers beyond MCP 35 in the book that has been used recently. I was wondering
if perhaps you could explain why the Clerk of the Executive Council has been singled out to receive that range
of pay.



MRS. NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, I will take the question under advisement and return at a later date
with the answer.



MR. ARCHIBALD: In the same document it was indicated that the new clerk will receive the
customary benefits that are associated with a deputy minister. I am wondering, does that include a car or a
car allowance, a credit card or a cellular phone, an expense account? Is that what the phrase, the customary
benefits associated with the deputy minister, is that what those are referring to and if not, what does that
phrase refer to in that document?



MRS. NORRIE: As I stated earlier, Mr. Speaker, I will take that under advisement and get the
information for him as soon as I can.






MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Queens.



ERA - BLUENOSE II: PRESERVATION TRUST - FUNDING



MR. JOHN LEEFE: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for the Economic Renewal Agency.
The province will be providing a donation to the Bluenose II Preservation Trust to assist in covering the
capital cost of refitting the Bluenose II for the G-7 photo opportunities, perhaps among other things. Will the
province be providing any funding whatsoever for operating costs associated with the Bluenose II while she
is under control of the Moore group and if so, approximately how much?



HON. ROSS BRAGG: Mr. Speaker, I think that question is phrased a little unfairly. The member
opposite knows that we are going to do more than have the Bluenose ready for a photo op for the G-7 and I
think that is wrong and that is one of the problems we have in this Legislature. Members take opportunities
such as this to detract from the facts and confuse people about what we are really doing. We are repairing that
vessel so that she will be available, yes, during the G-7 but yes, at Louisbourg next year for the celebrations
they are having there and to help raise money for the vessel in the future. And, yes, the Province of Nova
Scotia will fund the operating during that period of time while it is under the control of the preservation trust.



MR. LEEFE: I hope, then, that the Halifax Chronicle-Herald is suitably admonished considering the
headline story today, “Bluenose ready by summit - Bragg” says.



At any rate, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Moore is reported as stating that some donors to Bluenose II
Preservation Trust are anonymous. Will these donors be made known to the provincial government?



MR. BRAGG: No, Mr. Speaker, we have not asked Mr. Moore who he is getting donations from. He
has set up a trust that is registered to collect money to raise funds to repair the Bluenose. We have not asked
him and I do not intend on asking him. You know the Opposition would like to turn the historic and great
symbol of Nova Scotia into a political football and I think it is time they realize that they are only hurting the
Province of Nova Scotia and they should get onside and support the efforts.



MR. LEEFE: Mr. Speaker, the minister is absolutely right. Those anonymous donors should not be
made known to government and in that respect I ask the minister if Heather Robertson, the Premier’s Chief
of Staff, has yet resigned as a Director of Bluenose II Preservation Trust, the very organization which is
soliciting and accepting those anonymous donations?



MR. BRAGG: Mr. Speaker, in answer to his question, Ms. Robertson is in the process of resigning
from the Trust, that was made clear when she accepted her employment. Whether or not it is completed at
this time or not, I don’t know. What I will do is I will undertake (Interruptions) I will undertake to the
members opposite to find that out immediately, maybe even this afternoon and ensure that that happens.
(Interruption) (Laughter)



Mr. Speaker, the Premier was asked this question last week and he told the House that in fact she
would be resigning and I believe if it has not been done it will be done very shortly.






MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.



ERA - C.B.: JOBS - DECENTRALIZATION



MR. ROBERT CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I want to direct my question through you to the
honourable Premier. Yesterday I think we got an indication of just how desperate things are becoming in Cape
Breton. Thirty-three jobs were advertised in the $6.00 to $10 an hour range, they are short-term jobs and the
first day that applications were being accepted, there were 500 applications. I think clearly that is an
indication of how desperate things are becoming in various parts of this province, in particular Cape Breton.



I want to ask the Premier that over the past year or so a number of ministers throughout that time
have made promises to Cape Bretoners that through a policy of decentralization, literally hundreds, it was
reported, of jobs would be transferred to Cape Breton. Yet, we know in fact that there have been no
discussions commenced with the Nova Scotia Government Employees Union about that whole issue. My
question to the Premier is, is this policy regarding the decentralization of jobs to Cape Breton still government
policy?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, we have not enunciated that policy, we said we were studying it. I
share the concern for unemployment in Cape Breton and I can assure this House and the people of Cape
Breton that we will be working, particularly with our federal colleagues, to address this issue as seriously and
as soon as we can.



MR. CHISHOLM: Mr. Speaker, I believe it was back in July that the Minister of Finance pledged
that decentralization would take place and the people would know soon that it was going to happen. In
December 1994, in explaining the fact that 75 jobs were being transferred from Halifax to Amherst, the
Minister for the Economic Renewal Agency said that, it was the first of many moves, as the government
begins the process of moving more government jobs out of the Halifax-Dartmouth metropolitan area, in
response to questions in Sydney.



I would like to ask the Premier if he would please clarify for me and for all the Cape Bretoners who
have heard these kinds of pledges by Nova Scotians, just what is the government’s policy with respect to
decentralizing and moving jobs to Cape Breton from the metro area or were the Minister for the Economic
Renewal Agency and the Minister of Finance mistaken?



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, both of them are addressing a potential source of employment in Cape
Breton and that is the policy which is under review. It is not and can never be a simple policy of moving
people and jobs. It is a matter of people’s livelihood, it is a matter of uprooting them and therefore it is a
matter of considerable delicacy and importance. It is being studied, the issue perhaps relates more to new
government opportunities and also discussing with our federal colleagues the opportunities. To reduce it to
a simple yes or no question in the House of Assembly, is entirely the wrong approach.



MR. CHISHOLM: I didn’t mean to ask a difficult and a complicated question like, is it your policy
to do something. But, Mr. Speaker, let me tell you, right now it is a delicate and serious issue, the whole
question of unemployment in Cape Breton. This Premier and his ministers have made certain pledges to Cape
Bretoners and that is what we want to know about.






[1:00 p.m.]



I would like to ask him, Mr. Speaker, given the delicate nature, and we all understand that
decentralization of jobs from one area to another is a delicate issue, as the transfer of 75 jobs to Amherst is
a delicate issue, will the minister not agree that now is the time to begin discussing this question with the
Nova Scotia Government Employees Union? The organization that represents provincial government
employees who will be affected, if and when they begin to move forward to fulfil some of their promises.



THE PREMIER: Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that when and if the process arises, they will be the
first people who will be consulted. We will be talking to the people but we have not, in effect, got to that point.



We view this situation in Cape Breton as very serious and very important. There are signs that some
things are improving. The pick up in jobs in Sydney Steel, as a result of the sale, is obviously one of those
areas. The Community Economic Development Committee there has its first money and is seeking the kind
of process, but it will take more than that.



We have made a commitment that we will address this. I made it to the Cape Breton members on
our side and I will make it to all Cape Bretoners.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings West.



HEALTH - PHYSICIANS: LICENSES - DISCUSS



MR. GEORGE MOODY: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. The Minister of
Health has been talking about buying out physicians licenses across the province. I wonder if the minister
doesn’t believe that we need to settle the issue of physician resource management before we start off buying
out physicians licenses. I am thinking especially in rural areas, where we are under serviced, and some
specialty areas that we have concerns about.



I wonder if the minister would agree that we should address that area of resource management, prior
to getting into buying out physicians licenses?



HON. RONALD STEWART: Mr. Speaker, if I could take the opportunity, I have never used the term
“buy out licenses” in any written or oral communication. The honourable gentleman opposite certainly brings
a point home very wisely, that is that the issue of physician resources and the number of physicians in
particular specialties, particularly geographical regions, is a very complex issue. It is not simply so stated as
to buy back anything, until you have an idea of your overall goals. That is what I would suggest we have, in
fact, been doing over the last year, in consultation with the Medical Society, determining the numbers of
physicians.



We cannot, for example, say that we have too many physicians, particularly if we consider the rural
areas of Nova Scotia, or that we have too many physicians when we consider the under-serviced specialties
we have. So I would welcome that question and say no, indeed, physician resources and the management
thereof in the total picture is important.



MR. MOODY: I am pleased with the minister’s answer because I think so often people say we have
too many physicians and I think that statement can be misconstrued from what it really means. I think the
minister has hit on the area where there are concerns.



This morning, I think it was on CBC Information Morning, there was a physician nearing the
traditional retirement age who said that there was total confusion currently; no one knows what will happen,
so many messages have been received that the doctors can’t put any credence in any remarks. I think he was
referring to some of the comments the minister made yesterday in the paper.



When does the minister plan to sit down with the Medical Society and work out plans so there is less
confusion? The physicians are not sure if there is going to be early retirement. Some have talked about buy
out. When is the minister going to sit down with the Medical Society so the Medical Society can clearly have
the plan, so there will be less confusion amongst the physicians about really how the minister is going to
approach this resource management supply issue? I think that is the key area. When will the minister be doing
that with the Medical Society?



DR. STEWART: Mr. Speaker, I would say there is very little confusion in what I have said. I have
been consistent in saying that this is a complex issue. I have consistently answered the questions in terms of
being very specific in specialties in geographic areas in saying that there are many more things to consider
than just simply the fact that someone might say that we have too many physicians. Let me say in response
to the questions specifically, this is one of the major issues in which negotiations have proceeded in the past
and will proceed. We look forward to those discussions in specifics and I would, of course, look forward to
resolution to these very complex problems.



MR. MOODY: I thank the minister. I know that even though he has been trying to explain the issue
there is still some confusion with physicians. I would ask the minister, now that he has an advisor on
physician affairs hired in his department, I would ask the minister if this individual, Dr. Dan Reid, is playing
any part in the solution to the resource management issue with the Medical Society in solving or dealing with
these issues with the medical community? Is his medical advisor involved in dealing with this particular issue
of physician resource management and supply?



DR. STEWART: Yes, I have several members of my staff who are concerned with these and other
issues in respect to physician human resources and other issues related to the provision of primary and
secondary and tertiary medical care in the province, Dr. Reid is one of them.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Kings North.



SUPPLY AND SERV. - LEGISLATURE: DESK WIRING - COST



MR. GEORGE ARCHIBALD: Through you, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Supply and Services.
The Minister of Supply and Services is in charge of this facility that the Legislature is in and the other day
I was reading in the newspapers that this building is going to be wired for individual computers at each
member’s desk. I was wondering if the minister could give us a price of doing this?



HON. WAYNE ADAMS: The question is well put. We don’t have a cost because that is the real
initiative that we are doing in our department along with my colleague in the Department of Transportation.
We are looking to see what the feasibility is and what the cost will be to equip the proper wiring in the House
to facilitate laptop computer use.



MR. ARCHIBALD: I must have misread the newspaper because I thought it was sort of something
that had already been decided that was going to be done, that was the impression I got from reading in the
paper. When will your cost estimate be completed?



MR. ADAMS: We will look forward to probably this time next week. I am rather confident that we
will have the total picture by that time.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Hants West.



HUMAN RES. - CIVIL SERVICE: HIRING - PROCESS



MR. RONALD RUSSELL: My question is for the Minister of Human Resources. Over the past few
days there has been some misunderstanding, I believe, or some lack of knowledge, as to the process that is
presently being used by the present government for the hiring of civil servants. I was wondering if the
Minister of Human Resources could advise the House and the people of Nova Scotia of the process that ensues
when a department, for instance, wants to hire a person into the Civil Service to fill a position that is entitled
to be refilled, and they apply to the honourable Minister of Human Resources for suitable candidates. I wonder
if the minister would tell us what happens when they have generated this list of candidates, what process
ensues after that?



HON. ELEANOR NORRIE: Last April in 1994, the fair hiring process was developed in the
Department of Human Resources, I have a copy of it here and if the member opposite, I can read to you
Sections 7 and 8 and then table this if you wish. Under the Hiring Policy, “The relative merit of applicants
on the eligible list is determined on the basis of interview evaluations, results of other job-related assessment
techniques/tests which have been applied, reference/performance information which is available, and, where
applicable, years of employment in the Civil Service. Based on these collective considerations, the candidate
standing highest in order of merit is identified and awarded the position, unless otherwise decided by the .
. .”, Department of Human Resources, “. . . for legitimate reasons which may include the advancement of
affirmative action, or the re-employment of qualified employees affected by job redundancy, layoff or . . .”,
otherwise compelling reasons presented by the hiring department. “Appointments are made, with the approval
of the . . .”, Department of Human Resources, “. . . on the recommendation of the Deputy Minister of the
hiring department.”.



Further to that in Section 8, under Affirmative Action, government’s fair-hiring policy states that,
“`Hiring systems must allow fair and reasonable accommodation . . .’” - for a designated affirmative action
group - “`. . . in the selection process’. Where there is no conflict between affirmative action (employment
equity) policies and the merit/seniority (job posting) provisions of collective agreements, an affirmative action
applicant who is determined through the above process to possess the skills/abilities to effectively carry out
the duties of a position, . . .”.



AN HON. MEMBER: Are you reading that document.



MRS. NORRIE: Yes, I said earlier I would read and then table it. Would you care for me to finish
reading it?



MR. SPEAKER: I thought the Opposition agreed that the minister could read the document and then
table it.



MRS. NORRIE: I am answering the question. In response to my question, I volunteered to read this
and then table it.



“Through its affirmative action program, the Government of Nova Scotia intends to build a civil
service which is representative of the public it serves at all job levels. Affirmative Action programs are
supported by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Nova Scotia Human Rights Commission, .
. . Currently, the designated groups identified in our affirmative action program are Aboriginal persons,
persons with disabilities, racially visible persons and women.”. (Applause) Mr. Speaker, I will table the
document.



MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I always thought a minister should know enough about her own
portfolio to be able to answer a simple question.



AN HON. MEMBER: A in reading; F in performance.



MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, the question is, if the Minister of Natural Resources wishes to hire a
secretary and goes to the Minister of Human Resources to generate a list of names, who actually makes the
decision as to who should be hired? Does it reside within the Minister of Natural Resources’ staff or the
Minister of Human Resources?



MRS. NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, if you are speaking of a secretary in a certain department, the
secretaries’ jobs are listed in the Employment Bulletin. The qualifications and all of the particulars are worked
out within the Department of Human Resources in conjunction with the hiring department; the Department
of Natural Resources is the example he gave. Their jobs are advertised; applications are accepted at the
Department of Human Resources; they are there short-listed, either by staffing officers there, or in case of
senior positions, a committee will be formed using experts in the field; then, when they are short-listed, the
short list then goes, with recommendation, back to the department that is looking for the employee.



The deputy minister of that department would then look at the recommendations and address any
issue such as affirmative action and make the selection. If he deviates from the order of merit that the
Department of Human Resources submits to them, then they are requested to let the Department of Human
Resources know that the process is being followed. They come back to the Department of Human Resources
to confirm the proper process has been dealt with, and compensation is then awarded and the other particulars
for the applicant that has been chosen for the job.



MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, it is quite obvious that we do not need a Minister of Human Resources,
because if the decisions are being made within the departments by the deputy minister and by their particular
staff, then I would suggest to the minister that we do not need a Minister of Human Resources.



My final question to the minister. At the MCP level, is the same process followed as the one she just
detailed for a secretary?



MRS. NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, I believe, in my answer I suggested that in more senior positions we
will sometimes use an external committee or consultants. When you need particular qualifications of the
individual, you will go to expertise to assist in the short-listing in the interview process and then
recommendations go back to the deputy minister.



The staffing function is not the only function of government that the central agency, the Department
of Human Resources, looks after. There are all sorts of things: compensation levels are set; affirmative action
is dealt with; employee assistance is dealt with; equity programs are dealt with; sexual harassment is dealt
with. It is not the only issue. All the hiring and the employment within the Civil Service is handled through
the Department of Human Resources.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Halifax Fairview.



HEALTH: PHYSICIAN RESOURCE ADVISORY COMMITTEE - MEETINGS



MS. ALEXA MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my question to the Minister of
Health. Almost a full year ago, this government - despite the urgency of physician supply, distribution and
training issues - disbanded the Advisory Committee on Physician Human Resources and the Hospital
Specialist Manpower Planning Committee. It did so in order to strike a representative forum under the
umbrella of the Physician Resource Advisory Committee and, in April, asked the Medical Society to urgently
appoint three representatives to that committee - and I quote from the Minister of Health’s letter - “so that a
date can be set for the first meeting.”. He asked that they do so at their earliest convenience.



[1:15 p.m.]



Mr. Speaker, almost one year later, despite the chaos with respect to these issues in the Province of
Nova Scotia today, there still has not been a single meeting of the Physician Resource Advisory Committee
and, yet, the terms of reference for that committee called for a minimum of one meeting per month. How can
the Minister of Health expect Nova Scotians to have any confidence in this government’s dealing with these
complex issues of physicians supply and training if he is just going to negotiate through the media instead of
sit down and engage in the careful planning that is desperately needed?



HON. RONALD STEWART: Mr. Speaker, first of all, the development of a program and a plan for
physician resources in the province requires more than the monthly meeting of a committee. First of all, that
committee to which the honourable member opposite refers is a long-range planning committee which has
been set up and will be meeting this month in terms of what we eventually will decide in terms of education
of physicians, the number we need, et cetera.

 

 

Physicians in this province - and we are currently addressing these issues with the Medical Society
and with other groups - currently require answers now, not in terms of a committee meeting to decide what
in the future will happen in terms of this system. I would suggest to the honourable member opposite that we
need action on this now and not be dependent on the meeting of a committee, which its own mandate refers
to the development of physician resources in both training and other aspects in the future.



We are working with the Medical Society. We will be negotiating further with the Medical Society
and I might say that we are looking at physicians online. We are interviewing, we are talking with them on
a daily basis to determine what their needs are, what the needs of the communities are, the issues of
community development and all of the issues surrounding health care changes that includes the issue of
physician resources, particularly in rural and under-serviced areas.



I would suggest that it is that process that will allow communities to better answer the challenge that
they face now, physicians included, rather than committees that will be meeting and planning over the months
ahead.



MS. MCDONOUGH: Mr. Speaker, individual doctors in this province, general practitioners and
specialists are frustrated out of their minds that this planning process has not even begun. The Medical
Society is frustrated out of their minds that there still is not a single meeting of that committee scheduled;
even as of today, there is no such (Interruption) the Medical Society is absolutely apoplectic that not a single
meeting has been scheduled. If the minister did not intend to start this long-range planning process when it
struck the committee in April and when it circulated its four-page terms of reference, if it never even meant
for that committee to begin its long-range exercise, then why did it ever bother striking the committee and
asking people in invest in it, appoint to it, and look to it for some kind of long-range strategic planning to get
under way?



DR. STEWART: Mr. Speaker, I would assume that the honourable member opposite does not realize
that for the past 10 years there have been suggestions and proposals on physician resource management in
this province which have never been acted on. We are trying to act on those recommendations and, at the
same time plan, for the future of the changes in health reform. We cannot do both at the same time. We have
to answer the current problems and we will do that and we are doing it on a daily basis and discussing it with
our colleagues in medicine, with our colleagues who are out in the rural areas of this province. I myself and
other members of my staff do that on a continuing basis. This committee to which she refers has been set up
to plan the future resources of physicians in the province and to marry those determinations with the changes
in para-professionals and other professionals who will deliver the services in the health care system of the
province.



MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The time allotted for the Oral Question Period has expired.



GOVERNMENT BUSINESS



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, would you revert to the order of business, Tabling Reports,
Regulations and Other Papers.



TABLING REPORTS, REGULATIONS AND OTHER PAPERS



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Human Resources.



HON. ELEANOR NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, given the discussion that has gone on in the House in the
past few days, I would take great pleasure as Minister of Human Resources to table the Fair Hiring Process
and the Employment Application Hiring Process. They will be circulated to all members of the House.



MR. SPEAKER: The documents are tabled.



MR. TERENCE DONAHOE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am just curious, if I might have
the Minister of Human Resources clarify whether or not as she tabled the documents she has just now tabled,
she included the document that she promised she would table, namely the report from the deputy in the
Premier’s Office relative to the appointment of the Chief of Protocol. Could she confirm whether that was
tabled along with that other document?



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Human Resources.



HON. ELEANOR NORRIE: Mr. Speaker, I believe I suggested that I would do it either today or at
a later date. It has not been tabled as yet.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, I move that you do now leave the Chair and the House
resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole House on Bills.



MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that the House do now resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole
House on Bills.



The motion is carried.



[1:22 p.m. The House resolved itself into a CWH on Bills with Deputy Speaker Mr. Gerald O’Malley
in the Chair.]



[5:59 p.m. CWH on Bills rose and the House reconvened. Mr. Speaker, Hon. Paul MacEwan,
resumed the Chair.]



MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The draw for the Adjournment debate was won today by the
honourable member for Pictou Centre. Now, I don’t see him here. Is the honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley substituting?



MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Yes, Mr. Speaker, with your approbation, yes.



MR. SPEAKER: Very well. The motion is:



Therefore be it resolved that tax hikes hurt economic recovery.



ADJOURNMENT



MOTION UNDER RULE 5(5)



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.



FIN. - TAX INCREASES: ECONOMIC RECOVERY - HURT



MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise and speak on the subject matter,
tax hikes hurt economic recovery. That was put forward by the honourable member for Hants West. The
honourable member certainly gave a lot of consideration to bringing that resolution forth. I won’t go through
the whereases but the therefore, tax hikes hurt economic recovery, I think says quite a bit in itself.



I think it is worth commenting here tonight on this very worthwhile resolution that too many and
too much taxes is heard, Mr. Speaker, around this province. It doesn’t seem to matter where we go. In fact,
the Leader of our Party and the member for Kings North and the member for Hants West and myself were out
to meet with the Halifax County Business Association not too long ago, out in the beautiful community of
Sackville, one cold winter night and the underlying message that came home to us, it didn’t seem to matter
who we were talking with, what business they represented, the underlying message was that there was too
many taxes.



They expressed to us that they were fed up with the formality, the regulation, the obligation and the
red tape that they must comply with in order to jump into a certain venture. For example, if you want to put
up a building, just a house, Mr. Speaker, you have to get a building permit, electrical permit, plumbing
permit, you have to get the Department of Health to come in and all this just doesn’t happen with one stop.
You just can’t drive to one central location. That is what they are striving for. They are striving for simplicity.
They are striving for a reduction in taxes.



Now, when this government came to power, Mr. Speaker, we can’t forget what they said. Three of
the promises that this government made was that there would be an elimination of patronage and there would
be no new taxes. The first thing the government did in its very first budget was raise the provincial sales tax
by 1 per cent. So, we have seen a jump of some 10 per cent. We have seen a 10 per cent increase in the
provincial sales tax.



Now, at the same time that budget came down there was 3 per cent increase in the tax on Nova Scotia
Power Incorporated, on consumption, based on our bill we had to pay 3 per cent depending what our bill was.
So, those tax increases hurt, Mr. Speaker, they hurt the economy. Of course, when that budget came down
we saw the public sector wages rolled back 3 per cent. That hurt too.



Tax increases have got to stop, Mr. Speaker. I have the Minister of Finance’s statement here dated
December 2, 1994, and the minister is saying that in September 1993, I asked the Voluntary Planning
Taxation Committee to examine the province’s tax system and identify ways to reduce the tax burden on Nova
Scotia businesses. That is commendable. That statement is commendable. It shows that the minister realizes,
I think, by the very nature of that statement that, in fact, we are taxed to death here in this province.



The minister goes on to say, in order to create the business climate, we must reduce the cost of doing
business in Nova Scotia, specifically the cost inflicted by government. I hope the minister when he made that
statement he was thinking back to what his government did when they came down with a budget in the fall
of 1993 and increased taxes on the very first budget that this government imposed on the people of Nova
Scotia, it increased taxes. So, while the government, the minister goes on to say, is committed to wide
consultation with Nova Scotians to determine how best we can change the tax system to benefit all Nova
Scotians, and as part of that ongoing dialogue the Voluntary Planning group discussed taxation issues with
its members and with other Nova Scotians.



Now, I don’t think there are any of us in this Chamber that will forget the 30-60-90 initiative, where
the government went around to different communities in the province and listened. But I have to question,
did they hear what the people were saying with respect to taxes? People have a lot of concern. They have lots
of concerns relating to taxes and the imposition of new taxes in this province.



Mr. Speaker, we have to do something, government has got to do more, I think all of us in here
recognize that there is a problem with taxes and small businesses are hurting and they are reeling somewhat.
They are reeling because of the incredible tax load that they are forced to bear. The government, also, I
mentioned a couple of the promises that this government made when it was on its way to power and it
campaigned vigorously on things like, no new taxes, this government would eliminate patronage, but they also
said that they would create jobs and job creation is vital to the economy of this province. If you have jobs, you
have people who are happy. A person who has a job is a happy person and if you have a job you are much
more able to pay taxes, but the need to raise taxes is not as great if you have a job.



Now, there are different ways that the government can work and strive to eliminate the deficit and
I have mentioned different times how creative and innovative I feel that different members of the government
are but I think they should be given an opportunity to show some of that creativity. I think the government
can do more. I hate to mention the word here right now - the casino debate - because we have heard quite a
bit about it over the last few days, but I think the government can do more. We have heard the Minister of
Finance come back and say to this province that, my deficit projection for this year is going to come in some
$100 million less than I originally projected and predicted. So, that tells me that in fact there is no great rush
for this casino. (Interruption)



The member opposite will no doubt have an opportunity to respond but the minister did say that in
fact when he comes down with his next budget, if I remember correctly, that maybe because of the extra
revenue that is generated by these casinos, we will see a reduction in our taxes in the next budget.



Our deficit is incredible, I am the first one to admit that and I agree with the government taking
positive measures to reduce the deficit, but increasing taxes is not taking positive measures to reduce the
deficit. When the Minister of Finance says that he is pleasantly surprised and pleased to announce that the
projected deficit will come in some $100 million less than anticipated and predicted and projected, I think that
some of the money, for example, could have been put back into the public sector. What about the independent
truckers who have seen their wages rolled back some 28 per cent across this province for the transportation
of salt from Pugwash to the respective Department of Transportation depots?



I can now, because as the member of the Opposition says, in his previous incarnation, well in my
previous profession I was a small businessman in the trucking industry and there certainly is a lot of formality,
regulation and red tape and it is your wage because when you are transporting salt from Pugwash, say for
example you get $200 a load to the Transportation shed in Middle Musquodoboit, well this year you are
transporting the same tonnage to Middle Musquodoboit and you are getting some $40 less. So, your wage has
taken a direct hit and you are taking a direct hit in your back pocket or wherever you happen to carry your
wallet.



I know the Minister of Transportation, his intention is to reduce the budget of the Department of
Transportation by some $800,000, or he expects to realize a reduction of some $800,000 because of the
reduction in the salt haulage rate, but that is very unfair. Raising taxes and cutting the rates is a very unfair
way to reduce the deficit. For the life of me, I don’t think the province will forgive this government for raising
taxes and doing things without consultation. Thank you.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Eastern Shore.



MR. KEITH COLWELL: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure tonight to speak on the resolution
as put forward, tax hikes hurt economic recovery. I think the first thing we have to do is check the record. The
problem with any tax increases, there has to be a reason for the tax increases and Nova Scotia, in the past 15
years prior to our government taking office, has had a dismal record of spend, spend, spend. I believe that,
as many people in Nova Scotia do, is due to dismally poor management.



I can cite you some examples in my own riding. I have a building that is very affectionately known
as Canflock, in which an American company was given several million dollars to build this beautiful building
and today it is worth almost nothing - the taxpayers pay.



Another great one, the Nova Scotia Diesel plant in Sheet Harbour. Several million dollars, very
questionable circumstances surrounding that one. We have another one here, a theme park, Upper Clements
Park, a business that the government never should have been in - again, millions of dollars. J.W. Rudderham
in industrial Cape Breton, hundreds of thousands of dollars. Technitread, a tire retreading company in Glace
Bay, again several million dollars. Hi-Tech Woodworkers on the Hammonds Plains Road, several millions.
Boy, how fast we forget, huh?



Another one, Cape Breton Mold in North Sydney, several million dollars. A wallpaper company,
several million dollars and, by the way, Ontario owned and probably still in business in Ontario. A metal
fabrication company; several computer deals; a computer reservations system; a high-tech manufacturing
company in Mulgrave, never made a metal chip; a chemical plant making plastic film in North Sydney;
Gateway Canvas, a sail manufacturer in North Sydney; Dynavac vacuum cleaners in North Sydney; a gold
and silver plating company in North Sydney, the company was even supposed to make airplanes. How
ridiculous can we get?



To get away from some of these companies now, let’s look at some other things that have happened.
Again, I will draw another example in my riding. A major announcement in the media, a 100-Series Highway
between Sheet Harbour and New Glasgow. Well, the road is built, it is numbered, No. 374. There were not
any road signs on it for a long time. I recollect that just before the election, the section between the Halifax
County line and Stellarton was upgraded because it was in such bad condition. Overruns on the estimates paid
to a friendly, local Party supporter of the past government - pretty scary stuff.



Here is another one - insurance policy for the Province of Nova Scotia, Simpson-Hurst Ltd.,
contracted between 1978 and 1991. No public tender, millions of dollars. After the public tender process came
into place, it was 12 months to get it changed.



Well, a lot of these companies were from outside Nova Scotia. The money went with them, the goods
went with them and most of the equipment, even when they sold them off, they didn’t keep it in Nova Scotia,
very poor management, very poor economic growth. This adds up to a major debt in the Province of Nova
Scotia, approaching $10 billion, a debt that is staggering, exceeded in the budget only by the Department of
Health and their ongoing costs. It is scary to think we spend more on a debt service charge than we do on
education - the future of our families and the future of our province.



But let’s look and see what we have done as a Liberal Party, since taking office, in some of these
areas. First of all, as my previous colleague put forward, we are moving towards a balanced budget, something
that has not been in Nova Scotia in many years. It is hard to believe that in just 15 years we amassed a $9.5
billion debt and 125 years prior to that we had less than $500 million.



The first budget the Liberal Government came down with, even though it was only a part-year
budget, was approximately $50 million under what we had estimated. We had done even better than we had
estimated. This year we are projecting approximately $100 million again under what we had estimated, all
towards a balanced budget, something new in Nova Scotia, something we have to have in Nova Scotia.



This has to be coupled with the long-term commitment to pay down the debt and reduce the debt
service charges so Nova Scotians can go to work and know that their tax dollars are being spent wisely, for
a change.



As far as economic development goes, the province has moved forward in setting up 12 economic
development regions and regions that should, with community support and input, make a major improvement
in those communities.



[6:15 p.m.]



It is the small, locally-owned businesses that are going to make a difference in Nova Scotia and
anyone that tells you differently, can just look at the past record of these mega-projects that have blown our
money away on absolutely useless and wasted-time efforts that should have been cited long in advance. One
or two of these such events could have been tolerated, possibly, but the list goes on and on and the list that
I had previously quoted was only a small portion of the things we know about.



As I have already stated, small business is critical to Nova Scotia and the economic growth of Nova
Scotia. One job in a small business that is located in a small rural community will turn every cent it makes
back into that community and make that community grow and make it stronger and develop more small
businesses.



A very positive thing that we have seen is the elimination of grants being totally replaced by loans.
These small loans make it a lot easier for small business to start and to expand while, at the same time, when
they are returned to the taxpayer in the forms of principle and interest, that money can then be reinvested in
another small business or the same small business to make it grow more, instead of being thrown into grants
and gone forever with no real benefits to the community.



They talk about the record in Nova Scotia. We have seen approximately 13,000 new jobs in Nova
Scotia since December, the second highest growth in the country and far exceeding New Brunswick,
something that I hope and I know will continue. Unemployment has dropped 3 per cent in Nova Scotia and
it is overdue time that we get our Nova Scotians back to work. However, I would much rather see a very slow
and steady and maintained economic growth, than a staggering, throw-money-at-it, hope-it-goes-away
approach that has gone on in the past.



We have seen our tourism grow in Nova Scotia to an almost $1 billion a year business, a business
that puts real money into Nova Scotia. When I say real money, I mean money from offshore, offshore being
Europe, the United States, even New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Ontario and the western provinces.
This money is not recirculated money, it is real money to the economy and very important to the economy of
Nova Scotia. Every dollar we can insert into our economy like that will have a long-term and very solid
reaching effect.






I have heard numbers as high as $7.00 per $1.00 invested. For every dollar you get in tourism or
export sales, you can really use that money over seven times in the province and really has a tremendous
economic growth. Tourism, again, is made up of a whole series of small businesses. The business a husband
and wife operate, they operate themselves, they finance themselves and struggle very hard to maintain and
grow.



Again, small business is the backbone of Nova Scotia. It is the backbone of this country today and
we have to grow on that. As I have talked in this House before about our very serious and important
geographic location with Europe and the United States; Nova Scotia is sitting on the edge of a development
in export sales and export work, second to no other province in Canada.



If we can get the economy going through this very positive approach in small business and stop
wasting our money, as in the past, taxes will not have to go up. Unfortunately, it is going to be a long, hard
road to get the reversal in place and make sure that our taxes are used wisely and some day I will look forward
to lower taxes in Nova Scotia and more wisely managed government.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member for Cape Breton West.



MR. RUSSELL MACKINNON: Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the member for
Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley for bringing this resolution before the House because it is a very important
resolution. I would also like to congratulate the member for Eastern Shore for many of the very constructive
and valid points that he raised on this particular resolution, because this particular resolution, “Therefore be
it resolved that tax hikes hurt economic recovery.” is an issue which is not as simple as it may appear at first
glance.



Mr. Speaker, we have to keep things in perspective. First of all, we in this government have inherited
a $9 billion debt, not million but billion. We are spending on a daily basis $2.5 million a day on interest
payments from a debt that we inherited. That equates to approximately 26 per cent of every tax dollar that is
expended to operate the government. We are now left with 75 cent dollars to operate a $4 billion a year
budget. I think any member in this House who would say they enjoy higher taxes, or taxes of any measure,
would be somewhat foolhardy because nobody likes to pay taxes unless they have to, that is simple human
nature.



The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley has inherited a legacy as much as the
members of the government have inherited a legacy, not one that we are proud of obviously, because his
predecessor who sat in this House, as Minister of Consumer Affairs, not only raised taxes but raised them in
a very covert manner. You remember not too long ago when the then member for that particular region,
Colchester South I believe it was, the former Minister of Consumer Affairs, the Honourable Colin Stewart
raised taxes on insurance premiums and not only for automobiles but for life insurance, for homes and so on.
Mr. Speaker, 99.9 per cent of the citizens of Nova Scotia didn’t realize that that tax was being implemented
because it was a hidden tax and what is any more mischievous than the way a Minister of Consumer Affairs,
a minister who is supposed to protect the consumers of Nova Scotia, would implement that tax than to put a
hidden tax. Let’s not be side-tracked just on one issue because taxes do have an upside to implementing
government policy.



For example, I remember less than a year ago, several months ago when there was a little bit of
criticism raised in the Opposition benches, even during Question Period by one of the Opposition members
about the government’s investment in the Rita MacNeil Centre in Big Pond. The fact that the provincial
government had committed some $84,000 or $85,000 towards that particular project and then with the federal
contribution bringing the total contribution to approximately 50 per cent of that total investment of $622,000.
But, Mr. Speaker, if one were to examine the facts, number one, money did not go directly to Rita MacNeil,
that went to a community-based organization that operates the museum component of that particular centre,
plus if one were to look at the projections of the business plan we would not only recoup our total tax
investment provincially in one year, but you can well imagine the numbers of dollars that will be realized for
the public coffers over a 20 year period.



We have not only seen the potential employment go from 6 to 14, we have also seen our tourism
number projections - which are coming to fruition because it was late in the summer season of 1994 when the
new centre was opened and activated - certainly the operators of that particular facility expect to exceed the
tourism numbers which were supposed to go from 30,000 to 60,000 in the first year and all indications are
that that projection will be exceeded by at least another 50 per cent. So, Mr. Speaker, that is a good investment
in tax dollars. Nobody likes taxes but there in itself is an investment that was a very worthy investment, not
like some of the fly-by-night operations that had been articulated in the past.



In fairness to the members opposite, that I am sure just wasn’t exclusive to one particular Party but
I am sure even in previous government life, that criticism could be levelled on both sides of the House.



We have to keep things in perspective, that if we are going to invest we have to invest wisely. This
government has inherited a very difficult situation and is trying to make some very difficult decisions given
the circumstances. I have heard the members of the Third Party criticize incessantly the casino deal and
maybe in some respects they do have some valid concerns as do, I am sure, a lot of Nova Scotians.



Let us broaden our point of view just a bit. Look back in the Manitoba experience in Winnipeg and
all the outcry about the negative factors that would be brought to that city, to that province, upon the approval
of a casino. Well, that certainly did not prove to be the case. There were cries of complaint that those people
would be entangled with the Mafia and that the thuggery and evil elements of society were going to take over
that wonderful city and that simply was not the case. That doesn’t mean to say there aren’t some down sides
to having a casino because as that government viewed and I am sure in many respects this government views
somewhat the implementation of this casino legislation as a necessary evil. We inherited a very unsavoury
situation, a $9 billion debt.



We cannot abdicate our responsibility on that nor can we go and bury our head in the sand and say,
we want more money to reduce out debt, we are going to cut services so, I suppose in some subtle way the
honourable member is suggesting that perhaps if we put these government initiatives off to the side, then in
fact what we could do is raise taxes. I am sure that is not what the honourable member intended, to bring in
a resolution to ask the government to increase taxes any more than they have already been increased over the
last number of years.



There are a lot of opportunities that can be realized through taxation. It gives the government the
tool from a practical point of view to be able to activate many of the programs and initiatives that have to be
put forth on behalf of all Nova Scotia. The social programs that we have in this province, it is absolutely
imperative that we have the money to proceed with many of the reforms which are very difficult. Obviously
attitude and process is a critical factor when dealing with upwards of 900,000 people but I would submit that
given the opportunity, given the right chemistry that people are willing to, in some way, bite the bullet where
need be. Not all taxes, as I have demonstrated, are progressive taxes. I have always argued that municipal
taxation is far more regressive than provincial because it is on a sliding scale, the more you make, the more
you pay. With municipal taxes, when you are levied that taxation you are certainly frozen to it, you pay it or
you lose.



There are many arguments that can be made on both sides of this issue but I would certainly like to
commend the honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley for raising this resolution and indeed
the very constructive and valid points that were raised by both himself and the member for the Eastern Shore.
Thank you. (Applause)



MR. SPEAKER: We have reached the end of the time allotted for the Adjournment debate and the
House will now revert back to the Committee of the Whole House on Bills.



[6:30 p.m. The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole House on Bills.]



[7:59 p.m. CWH on Bills rose and the House reconvened. Mr. Speaker, Hon. Paul MacEwan,
resumed the Chair.]



MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole House on Bills reports:



THE CLERK: That the committee has met and begs leave to sit again.



MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed?



It is agreed.



The honourable Opposition House Leader.



MR. JOHN LEEFE: Mr. Speaker, tomorrow we will be debating Resolutions No. 1414 and No. 966.
Resolution No. 1414 you will notice is not on today’s order paper, it was introduced yesterday, so it will appear
on tomorrow’s order paper. We then will deal with House Orders after that.



MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Government House Leader.



HON. RICHARD MANN: Mr. Speaker, we will be sitting the hours of 2:00 p.m. until 6:00 p.m.



I move that we adjourn until 2:00 p.m. tomorrow.



MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that the House do now rise to meet again tomorrow afternoon at the
hour of 2:00 p.m.



The motion is carried.



[The House rose at 8:00 p.m.]



NOTICE OF MOTION UNDER RULE 32(3)



HOUSE ORDER NO. 181



By: Dr. John Hamm (Pictou Centre)



I hereby give notice that on a future day I shall move that an order of this House do issue for a return
showing, with respect to the Department of Community Services:



(1) A copy of all background documents as well as the department’s response to the federal
government’s discussion paper on social reform “Improving Social Security in Canada”; and



(2) If the response was done in conjunction with other departments, a copy of the background
material supplied for a joint response.



NOTICE OF QUESTIONS FOR WRITTEN ANSWERS

 

Given on January 9, 1995

 

(Pursuant to Rule 30)



QUESTION NO. 125



By: Mr. Ronald Russell (Hants West)

 

To: Hon. Wayne Adams (Minister of Supply and Services)



I want to know, as does D. Bezanson of Kentville, about government fiscal restraints, why are
government offices in Kentville costing $850 per month being abandoned for a rental in a mall area for
$2,200 per month?



QUESTION NO. 126



By: Mr. Ronald Russell (Hants West)

 

To: Hon. James Barkhouse (Minister of Fisheries)



I want to know, as does B. Burns of Kingston, where did the $10,000 come from for the weekend at
the Dartmouth Ramada for the provincial Fisheries Minister and the provincial Fisheries Department
employees?



QUESTION NO. 127



By: Mr. Ronald Russell (Hants West)

 

To: Hon. William Gillis (Minister of Justice)



I want to know, as does B. Burns of Kingston, where did the funding come from to work out a
retirement package for Dr. Roland Perry?



QUESTION NO. 128



By: Mr. Ronald Russell (Hants West)

 

To: Hon. Ronald Bragg (Minister for the Economic Renewal Agency)



I want to know, as does B. Burns of Kingston, where did the money come from to pay pension
benefits to Don Barr?